All right, good morning everyone. >> I'm sorry. All right, good morning everyone. We're going to call this meeting to order. Today is Wednesday, April 8th, 2026. It is 9:00 a.m. All council members are present, including town manager, deputy town manager, town
attorney, and town clerk. Um, if you please rise for the pledge of allegiance. Sorry about that. >> I pledge algiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation
under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> All right, we have two items on our management and planning meeting today. First is a presentation for shoreline protection of due diligence protection study wave mitigation wall and a talk
about the CRA process. First we have uh J.R. Evans here. Elizabeth. >> Yes. >> Come on up. >> Good morning. >> Good morning. Welcome back. >> Thank you. Um thanks for the opportunity to uh be here and make this presentation this morning. Um this is really a status
update on our current uh shoreline protection due diligence study and we we wanted to um provide an update on our current completed work, our findings, our uh the work that we're currently um
still completing and um the next steps to ultimately complete the study and provide you a deliverable report that outlines all the analysis findings. and recommendations. Um, with me today I have Felicia Munford. She's um, joined
via Zoom. She is one of our senior project managers on the project. And Austin Wise, he is our senior coastal engineer as well um, who is handling a lot of the technical aspects of the analysis. And um with that, I'm going to
I'm gonna transfer the presentation to Austin and let him go through the status of the work in and current findings. Austin, are you on? >> There he is.
And he will be sharing um exhibits with you and going through those as well. Um, and we also made sure to send those um through Tracy so that we'll they'll have be part of the record for the meeting. >> Yeah. Yeah.
They're pretty large files. So, Austin, we're ready when you are. >> For the files to be sent over email or or just for the as a whole. >> Just uh just a one link drive would be
great. >> Okay. I was having a hard time getting uh all those files to load. Quite large. >> Can we just go on with the presentation? We can send those later. >> Just proceed with the presentation.
Thank you. >> All right. Um, Elizabeth, did you want to kick it off or I'll just pull up the meeting agenda? >> Yep. Just just pull up the agenda. Um, and basically the status of work that's been completed. We've done the islandwide data collection and analysis.
Um, we actually took as part of that process, we did a drone study where we took uh we have drone footage for the entire island to be able to get current conditions um visually and then we did site visits to verify certain components
of um specific properties um just to help us basically inform those existing conditions and um help with the the coastal analysis. We've also done a islandwide spatial analysis um basically
to document all the existing u surge information that's available through FEMA. Uh obviously all the flood zone information that's currently available, your coastal um construction control line uh
boundaries and um other jurisdictional boundaries to be aware of. We've actually and we've also done a sight specific wave propagation modeling uh analysis which also identified the
criteria for um doing these shoreline protection features and that criteria basically is you know what is the target top elevation that needs to be on those walls or structures so that it would mitigate the wave action enough to lower
the the risk of damage to landward structures. So Austin, if you want to go through um some more details on that analysis and findings, I'll hand it over to you. >> Sure. >> Um so like Elizabeth said, we completed
the islandwide data and spatial analyses. Um the first thing we looked at was the flood zones for the island as a whole. um to get a good idea of ultimately how
those flood zones change over the island and uh what would be priority areas or areas that would be most u subject to damage. And so what we have here is the flood zones for the island as a whole.
This is one of the exhibits that I would will share. Um but basically you see that there are some VE zones which are are critical high velocity zones with large wave action and then there's a red line here indicating the limit of
moderate wave action that demarcates uh waves that are greater than or less than a foot and a half. Um so as you cross that line and get back into these areas you're expecting smaller waves.
um the V AE boundary. You see here the VE and then the AE. Um the difference there is the wave heights are expected to be a 3 ft or greater or 3 ft or less in the AE zone.
Um and all of this is relative to FEMA's identified conditions for a 100year storm or 1% annual chance storm. Um these conditions are are really specific. They've identified water levels, wave conditions, um things like
that. Um not every storm, of course, is going to be a 100red-year storm, but that's the baseline that these flood zones are are drawn upon. Um so that was the first thing we wanted to look at.
Uh the second in our data analysis was the maximum still water elevation. And I'm sorry these might take a second to load. They're they're loaded with data. Um so this max still water elevation is the
maximum storm surge elevation. Essentially, still water is if you were to imagine a storm um a storm surge in a 100-year storm. Um this would be if there were no waves on top of that, if the water level was just still, this is
the elevation that it would be at. And then the waves are added on top of these elevations. Um so this is the baseline for what your surge and wave conditions are going to be drawn upon. Um, of course, the higher your still water
elevation, the more extreme your water level is going to be and likely the mo the more extreme the damage could be in those areas. Um, so what we found uh was something that was not terribly surprising to us.
Um, you see that the water levels, the still water levels in the center of the island are expected to be higher in a 100-year storm. Um, and then as you get toward either end of the island, they start to taper off. They get a little
lower. Austin, would you mind just because we can't see as closely, could you like what is the red, what is the yellow, what is just relative heights? >> Sure. Uh, so
>> the red is basically 11 and above. >> Okay. >> U, once you get into green, you're getting to 10 or below. >> And that mid-range is essentially between 10 or 11. >> Okay, perfect. Thank you. >> No problem.
Um, so like I was saying, as you get toward either end of the island, uh, you see it tapers off there. The red is the more extreme. Um, and then especially down here toward Big Carlos Pass, uh, you see it tapers off pretty quickly.
Um, that's as water is rushing through in a storm event. Um, it's almost like a relief valve where water is able to rush into a sterile bay and so it doesn't stack up the same as it would. on uh a shoreline like this
>> and and it's also related to the shape of the shoreline too. So because of that, the middle of the island is more of a >> like a convex >> or concave um shape, it draws the surge in to a higher level. >> And you'll see that where it's different
like on Santael Island, they have more of a convex shape and so their still water their surge elevations are lower um >> because it goes around it >> for most of the island. Yes. So this is my favorite way to explain this.
Um if we take a look at the shoreline from the perspective of a storm, right? If the storm is coming directly at the island, um what you see with a stero island is
that it's shaped where it could catch all of the water, right? It's almost shaped like a bowl or a cup from this perspective. So, in the center of the island, you're expected to have higher water levels
because of that shape. Um, the reason you're likely to see lower water water levels on Santael Island um is because it's it's shaped the exact opposite. So, as the water's rushing in in a storm surge, it can push around the island.
it's not trapped with nowhere to go. Versus on a steroid island as a surge comes in, it's trapped. It really doesn't have anywhere to go until it stacks up enough that it can go around. So
that's the easy way to explain it. I know the the orientation in the north south direction doesn't really show that well. Um, but once you look at it from the the perspective of a storm and an actual storm surge, it starts to make more sense. All right.
So, um, that's the work we've completed for the, uh, data and spatial analysis. We also looked at um some of the zoning and permitting uh criteria that would be located along the
island. I won't go into too much detail on this because it's very sight specific and and we're still in pretty general stages. Um but we have created exhibits that show uh the zoning for different areas of the island
um and and how ultimately any sight specific project would be affected by those criteria and again it has so much data it takes a while to load. Sorry about that. Yeah. And we used we used the zoning the
land use uh parameters to identify target areas to look at to do the wave propagation study to do that sight specific analysis to determine what level of what mitigation structure would be needed and to determine the criteria. And so we looked at where
there was a more concentration of commercial uses, um, condominium uses, single family home, and we looked at public spaces as well. So those were the key areas that we, uh, performed the sight specific studies on,
and Austin will go into that detail. >> And we focus this part of the analysis on uh, the beachfront properties themselves. um if we're able to fortify the beach, the properties behind it are going to to
reap the benefit of those improvements as well. Uh so that's why we focused on the shoreline here. >> Elizabeth, did I hear you right? So did you say you you use zoning districts to determine how you would build the wall? No, we use
where we to identify um target locations of where to do the the more sight specific >> analysis. Got it. >> To determine what >> the design criteria for the wall should be >> because it's going to it >> our our initial thought that it might
vary a little bit as you know as you go through the island. Um and also there's different opportunities that could be combined with the structure based on the adjacent land use. So like for commercial
you could do other um I guess comp the you know additional components of that structure could include sidewalk or pedestrianing pathway things like that whereas single family you may not have that opportunity. Um but definitely for like
the commercial resorts and condos that would probably be a a good opportunity to provide those other types of inscillary uses. >> Sure. >> With the structure. >> Okay. >> So we we did the um sight specific wave mitigation modeling
for those those uh five particular locations that are identified on on the table on the first page. And basically we identified what the required top elevation of that structure needed to be in order to affectuate a reduction in
the wave height to go from a VE zone category to an AE zone category. Um and so each of those areas um that the required elevation ranges from 7 and a half to about eight and a half max.
And um a lot of these it depends on the the structure itself but also what is happening on the landward side of the structure. You know what is the elevation of the ground? If there's additional
improved property that plays a role in making sure that that wave can maintain the reduced height across the width of the studied area, if that makes sense. Um, >> and just just for those that are paying attention out there, when you see these
numbers and you see 8 feet, that's not 8 feet on top of the sand. >> No, that is 8t actual elevation. So, a lot of Fort Myers Beachfront areas are around between a four and a five feet elevation.
So, um, you know, Ster Boulevard itself, I think, is around a five average feet in AVD. And so they're talking the difference of like three feet would be from the top of the wall to that five
feet. It would just be three feet. Well, so I guess that's people are going to take that and think that there's going to be a three-ft wall all the way down. >> If you looked at going back to the beach reourishment, the sand berm project, if I remember that was around six feet is the top of that burm. How close in
relation would this wall be to that sand berm? >> Another two feet. No, I meant in in as far as al aligning with it. >> So, we we're pl we are are targeting this structure to be landward if that >> landward. Okay.
>> We would not want to interfere with >> the engineered beach and the dune plantings that have already been installed. >> Okay. >> This is something this is a a second line of defense like we like to call it. your your your beach nourishment and you
know sand and vegetation is always going to be your first line of defense. And this is just an extra measure to help ensure that those waves are actually uh mitigated um because you're not going to
be able to rely on that sand, >> right, >> indefinitely. It will be it will be removed when when storms come through. But this this type of structure is meant to be designed to withstand the forces associated with a 100red-year
event. >> And when you when you've had these installed in the past, have you and storms have come, have you noticed, at least I've it appears in the ones I've went and visited, it appears as though that burm that was there gets pushed up against this wall and that wall almost
essentially disappears once that sand is pushed up there. >> It it that can certainly happen. Yes. Um, we did have I know one in Marco that we recently completed and that's when I think I think they just completed it
before Milton and Helen. Um, and but it performed very well and had no issues. Um, but the the idea is that the sand will help not only with the wave action but also um limit sand transport.
So across >> right >> across >> the sterile boulevard. >> Yeah. >> And that's one of the that's one of the um work in progress what we're doing now. We're doing the hydrodnamic modeling to be able to visually demonstrate that
>> aspect of the analysis. >> Cool. >> Yep. So these are the required ele top elevations. Um, so again, you know, depending on what existing ground is, it could be anywhere
from a a two two to three foot difference in, you know, from the top of the wall to ground elevation. Austin, do you have anything to add? Um,
and that's relative to the ground elevation that's either existing or has recently been completed with u with the nourishments. Um, that's not to say that you couldn't do additional uh, you know, nourishment and bring that ground elevation to closer match the wall,
>> right? >> Um, so there there's a lot of opportunities there. the the the nourishment that's out there. It serves a really good purpose, especially for those smaller storms. And it's it's critical to have that.
>> Um, and to to bolster it in addition to this wall would be honestly the best case scenario uh for uh wave mitigation on a sterile island. So, do you want to go into the um do you you have more to go into on the coastal
on the uh wave modeling or do you want to go into the work in progress? >> I'm sorry, I wasn't able to hear you there. >> Sorry. Are you are you done with the wave mitigation modeling section? >> Yes.
Did we want to discuss any of the sight specific uh modeling that we did or do we want to jump to the hydrodnamic? >> I think we can jump to the hydrodnamic. >> Actually, Elizabeth, I'd like you guys to talk a little bit about some of in more detail about sites specific like
you did with us a couple weeks ago. >> Let's go let's go through um our site specific locations. Austin. >> Okay. Awesome. So, uh, I may bring the agenda back in periodically to show the area
that I'm I'm speaking about. Um, so this first one that I'm going to talk about is going to be Time Square. It's representative, of course, of a commercial area on the island. Um and we found that a an elevation of 8 ft NAV
would support uh successful wave mitigation and uh revision to the uh flood zones in that area. So this is a very preliminary look. Um this is just something that we drew up to provide the
concept. It's not anything that's been uh like finalized or anything like that. >> Is there any way to expand this? I mean it's It's impossible to see what you're even talking about. >> He can zoom in. >> Sure. >> I mean, on the screen, is there on our
screen, is there a way to expand it? >> We got an 85 inch screen and we're looking at a 45 inch picture. >> I mean, that's helpful. At least we can >> maybe get an idea. Get rid of the thumbnails. >> Yeah. Just Yeah, exactly. Just >> expand the screen. Not that we don't
like seeing you guys up there, but we'd like to see what you're what you're showing us, too. >> Yeah. I don't know if it's on our end or Yeah, it would be on our end. >> Is it our on our end? >> Well, keep going. >> Zoom screen.
>> Yeah, that's Yeah, >> we're sending in the Swiss Army knife. You can continue on. I just wanted to You zoomed it in so at least it's a little easier to see. >> Okay. >> So, I'll I'll cut in as close as I can get.
Um, so this is really just a preliminary look at something that could be put out there. It could be rearranged. Um, but the key for any way >> Austin, if you could hold up just for one second, if we can take like a maybe a one to two minute break, if you can
>> each of the counselors and the mayors, if you if you go to our YouTube page in the interim, if you go to the town of Fort Myers Beach YouTube page and pull up this presentation, you can pull it up on your screen. We haven't received the whole presentation. I know it's going to take a while to get through because it's so
>> dense, but if we can just take a minute if you pull up our YouTube presentation right now for this, it's You can see it much better. Thanks for the pause, Austin. Just give us a minute. >> No problem. >> Type in town Fort Myers Beach YouTube.
>> Oops. >> Thanks for the pause, Austin. >> We got to mute your Make sure you >> Oh, will you're good. >> Okay. Go ahead, Austin. >> That works. Okay.
>> All right. >> So, in purple here, >> remember that >> uh these purple lines represent uh one possible configuration of a system of wave mitigation structures. >> Okay. Go ahead. Um it's not anything
that is final or anything like that. Um it's just an idea and it's put here for the sake of showing the concept. Um the the important part of this message is that this purple line
needs to be continuous if you were looking from the beach but discontinuous so that you can get beach access. And I know that sounds kind of strange, but you see the overlapping brakes here. >> Um, that allows people to come in and it
actually allows the surge to come in. What we're doing here is not stopping the surge. Um, the the really important thing to focus on is that we're we're breaking the waves. We're not stopping the surge. The surge, it's not something that's feasible to
stop. It it's just not reasonable. Um but by breaking the wave action we can protect the the property behind it very well. So uh these breaks in the wall allow surge to propagate through um but
it also allows uh people access in and out you know to access the pier or the public beach or parks or anything like that. Um, but if you were to stand on the beach and look, the wall would look continuous. And that's really important because you want to make sure that uh
the waves can't get through in any specific location. So the waves will will see this and and be mitigated. Uh they'll be broken in any given location because of these overlaps, but the surge in people walking will be able to still
get through the wall. Um, >> and Austin, what what is that black dotted line and what is that purple >> dash dotted line that's the furthest down on the bottom? >> Gotcha. So, those are uh one of them is a PFD. It's a primary frontal dune
that's been identified by FEMA. Um, it's something that we disagree with FEMA on. Frankly, uh, a primary frontal dune is not something that realistically exists on Fort Myers Beach. It's
something that, uh, provides protection to the beach in a 100red-year storm. And clearly that's not the case. It's pretty flat out there. Uh, a PFD is something, uh, actually have
a pretty good example of what a PFD actually looks like. This looks nothing like Fort Myers Beach. This is a a primary frontal dune up in Anastasia State Park by St. Augustine. Um,
but needless to say, the PFD has been delineated by FEMA. uh and it's a regulatory feature that we will need to to work around or or work with um as we implement any any sort of wave mitigation structure.
Um then the other pink dash line is the CCSL. It's a regulatory line. Um it's coastal construction setback line. um most of the island uh we might be
able to set the way mitigation wall behind it. Um in some cases we might want to look in front of that line. Um but that's on a really sightsp specific basis. >> That's the original 1978 line, >> right? >> Original CCCL now referred to as the SL
for setback. So is the requirement in this case to put if your illustration there is obviously well behind that CCCL line. Is that a design choice or is that where you get your best results for that section?
>> It's a design choice. Um >> you can change the location of the wall if I was to redraw this. Um >> the only reason I ask is just just in this illustration. Yes. I >> mean, that's going to go right through the middle property owner's property,
which they're probably not going to be very happy with, >> right? I think this we we aligned this to be on the um west side of >> or the >> south side >> south side of Eststero Boulevard the pedestrian cor corridor >> only because we we thought it would be
uh it was a great way to help protect public infrastructure as well because you've got utilities and drainage within that corridor as long and as well as the the bulk of the time square commercial properties. We do realize that there are properties located seawward call on you
>> of that proposed line. Um, and we're not saying that the wall could not be the structure could not be out that far, although we think it would be a pretty heavy lift with permitting. >> Okay.
>> Um, I think there is an existing >> F as in FDEP permitting. Is that where you >> No, D. Yes. D uh D. Yes. Through the state. >> Interesting. It helps if there's an existing wall in the area that we could
um reference. Um but again and the wall the top of the wall elevation may need to be a little higher for f further seawward you go because the waves are higher. >> Sure. >> Yes. So we we really laid this out
more of our optimal design recommendation for the location. >> Okay. Not to say that other locations cannot be considered, but for this purpose, that's where we put it. >> Yeah. So, if these structures were to be moved inland, like Elizabeth was saying,
um, your required wave mitigation height, the the elevation of the top of that structure could be a little lower. Um, and the farther you go out on the beach, uh, the higher that structure has to be just because the conditions are more extreme >> and the wave has to be taller and
stronger or or the structure has to be taller and stronger to mitigate those waves. >> So, I'll switch now to uh a location that's representative of the single family area. Um, so this was
just a random address that we selected that looked like it best represented uh the surrounding area of single family homes. Um, the required elevation here was 8.25 and we located this wall essentially
just within the CCSL. It's also roughly uh around the location of the property lines for most of the properties in this area. Um and it is seword of that theme of PFD.
But um what this ultimately does is of course it protects the structures, it breaks the waves down, but it also allows us to revise the flood zones um which could uh provide a pretty beneficial impact to any of the single
family um homeowners. Um so this is a a lot more simple of a configuration just because It's it's not a robust commercial area. It's
singular homes. Ideally, this structure would be continuous. Um that would be the best means of protection. Uh of course, there would have to be breaks in it here and there for access and to allow storm waters uh
to to propagate. Um, and what we would also do and what we'll talk about later is the hydrodnamic uh modeling that we're we're working on to focus on the the velocities and and different effects of that storm as the storm surge
propagates over the island to ensure that by placing the structure or series of structures uh that we're not adversely impacting other properties. Um, so that's something that we're still working on. Um, but something that's
going to be a primary focus as we move forward. >> Quick question before you move on with this this area. You know, we often talk about how this could have an effect on the the immediate property owners >> if it changes the zoning, the flood zoning maps. Does it then also change or
potentially change the flood zoning map moving further inland? >> So, say if you were in an AE, could you potentially go to an A or is it just specific on the velocity areas? The biggest change would be from velocity to an AE. Uh the other properties would
remain an AE. There may be the potential of a lowering of the base flood elevation. >> Um but for the most part, the most impactful is going to be >> from B to A. >> Right. Okay. >> With a potential lowering of like maybe
a foot of the base elevation for some of the closer properties. >> Okay. So, but there's no way to to remove any property from the AE zone. Um, it it could also
I don't know that we've looked at this, but um you that the goal of the wall is to mitigate wave action so it gets down to waves that are less than three feet. Um, I don't know that that will change where the limb wall boundary is, that limit of
moderate wave action. Um there could be a potential for adjustment to that line, but I think you would need a um a more comprehensive improvement to do that. >> Okay.
>> Elizabeth um or Austin either um when you do it in front of a property like this um and let's assume that the neighboring properties also buy in and they also want to build it and you do have a
contiguous line. Um h I understand it's potentially three four feet that's exposed. How how do you get access over that? Can you actually build into the structure steps or some of because I noticed you at the time square
example you had the brakes where it was staggered. Yes. >> And they were kind of you know one was facing the other to >> to overlap >> show Yeah. overlap and show a a break to the water as it's coming in. But for access, do you have to do the staggering
or can you create concrete stairs going down? I don't know what it is. Something like that. >> There I would believe there is the opportunity to do like a a walk over. It would have to be I don't know that we can put um we can make it out of
concrete that would go like on the seawward side of the wall. would probably be a typical >> uh boardwalk. >> Boardwalk. Yeah. Okay. >> Um or we can, you know, we can provide breaks. >> It would just mean there'd be a need need to be an offset that that property
owner would be okay with. >> Yeah. Make sure they have access. >> Um and I want to make a point that the wall doesn't have to be straight. Uh it can be >> uh it can have shape to it. It could be
curve, you know, curvy. There's a lot of options for it. Um, so I wanted to throw that out there. >> And you have some pictures of examples of that, don't you? Can you guys show any of those? Uh, >> I don't know if you guys you >> Yeah. >> pulled them up when we we met like Clear
Water. >> Yeah. Yes. >> Elizabeth, you would need breaks uh at the public beach accesses. Yes. >> Right. You do something similar like Time Square. >> Yes. where you'd have an additional >> Exactly. And in in those examples that we've
shown in in other presentations, those breaks are accommodated in those areas like for Clear Water and Austin's showing it now. Um so this is Clear Water. This is a similar structure.
Um you can see that there's breaks in in the wall for wave access or not wave access, beach access. Um there's also secondary structures behind it um >> that could be incorporated as well. But you see the configuration is is a little
funky. Um that helps to provide overlap to incoming waves. Um, and I've got some other examples that can can show that even better because there's still some breaks in here and they do have secondary walls to protect from those openings. >> Yeah, that that wall that's in the the
pedestrian corridor right there closer to the building. That is uh what I was referring to. So, >> really helpful. >> So, this is a perfect example of that overlap and how it can be curved a little bit. Um, so if you're a wave
coming in from the ocean, you can't really get past this. Uh, waves don't just walk around structures like people do. So, this provides the protection while also allowing access. Um, >> add some architectural design to it, too. Yeah,
>> makes a difference. >> That sure does make a difference. >> Um, and if we want, I can go through a couple other examples. Um this is uh this one is Hollywood Beach.
So they have some pretty wide openings. Of course those openings are not where there are structures. Um so the structures themselves are still protected, but for the beach accesses, they have pretty wide openings. They've incorporated it into their boardwalk.
Um and they have bike lanes and things like that. we were to go down a little bit, you'll see some like live music. You have chairs out there. Um I think pretty similar to the waterfront by uh Time
Square. >> Mhm. >> And then if we go to uh Fort Lauderdale, theirs is um it's a little more artistic than the one at Hollywood Beach. Um, they use it for parking lots. Um, but
they also use it for recreational spaces. Um, here's a perfect example of the overlap that you have here. So, people can walk down here, but if you're away coming from the ocean, it has no path around the wall. It has to go through it
and it has to be uh broken. And then it it starts to look different for different areas. Like that was a pretty dense area that I was just showing, but as we get further north, we get in into some public areas, uh some condominiums, things like that. And and
the wall kind of fits into the landscape as you go to different areas. And most people as they're visiting a place like this, they see this as a seating feature or a >> structure that delineates the difference between the beach and the walkway. They
don't see it as a big flood mitigation structure. It's been incorporated nicely in this place uh in this case. Um, and they they added some public features like bike racks and things like that.
That is all of my examples for now. I can I'm sure I can find some more we need to >> um and then I'll come back to the site specific study. I'll roll through a couple of these last ones >> maybe us and on the as you guys continue to move forward at the next presentation
if you could have some pictures of the ones you did at Bonita the Marco the more you know the closer ones that you referring to so people get a better understanding of >> locally what it could potentially look like. >> Yes, >> absolutely. >> Those were great though. I think people need to see those to understand that it's not just a seaw wall down the
beach. >> Exactly. >> Yeah. >> Right. I think when people think of an idea like this, they they might think of this. This is Daytona. >> Um this is not what we're proposing here.
>> Um the state doesn't like to see this built anymore. Um for anybody that's worried that this is what we're we're thinking of doing, >> it's not the case. >> That's an important point to make. It is. Yes.
We really just trying to like trip up the wave action and then some of the lower lower interval storms, you know, the structure will actually probably prevent the surge from reaching. But again, we're talking about lower level surge events,
>> a 10-year storm, you know, or 25 year level event >> um where the surge might be at like an elevation five or six just over the beach. Um then these structures would help mitigate
from that surge propagating. Yep. >> Go ahead, Austin. >> No, that's a good point. Um so this is this is a part of our study. It's Newton Park. It's representative of a public space.
Um so the structure since this is more toward the center of the island, we found that the structure needed to be a little taller. Uh the center of the island of course has higher still water elevations like I I showed previously. >> Um so this being at an 8.5
this is a case where you might have a four to 5ft exposure um on the beach side. So this might be a case where uh there needs to be a little bit of sand added here. Um,
now I don't know how uh accurately these contours reflect the recent upgrades to the beach with the nourishment and the dune plantings and everything like that. >> Specifically at Newton Park. Um, so you we might already be looking at not such
a great exposure. Um, >> Chad, isn't this area kind of You don't have to just nod. Isn't this area kind of where they built it up to that common six foot across there? So this these numbers aren't really accurate as to what is currently out there, >> right?
>> Incorporate uh the data everywhere that we had it, but it looks like this location in particular just doesn't have the data supporting the the nourishment up at 6 ft. >> Well, maybe we can get the current data from Mike Poff to these to these folks
to be able to help with their >> Chad shoots town staff. Yes, we're doing an annual um profile uh survey soon. >> Okay. >> So, we'll have that. >> Thank Thank you, Chad. And and with Newton, there is an existing structure
there along the interface between the park and the active beach. >> I think it extends pretty much down that entire side of the beach, doesn't it? Yes, sir. Down past Publix and >> Yes. Um, and we actually went out and got current elevations of that structure
and I think the top elevation in is around Austin, you'll have to correct me, but I think it's between four and a half and 5T already. >> So, um, >> so could we just add on top of that or we would have >> structure?
>> The goal well as part of the analysis would be to um verify the structural capacity of that that existing wall. Um, in many cases, if it's if it's the same as we encounter it on Hickory Island
where they have an existing buried wall pretty much the same condition, that wall was strong enough to be able to add a structural cap to it and still withstand 100-year forces. So my my hope
that it it the the the wall on Hickory Island was a concrete panel wall that extended about 9 10 feet below grade. So I would think that this is a similar structure. >> Would you have to analyze the entire wall or just portions of the wall?
>> Uh just just portions just to get understanding of the makeup of it. >> Okay. Uh but ideally we'd be able to add a a structural cap to it and um like as Austin mentioned maybe do
additional mitigation with some um scour protection in front and sand. But that that would be the idea. Elizabeth, when you speak of scour protection, is that something that will be in front of all the walls?
>> I'm sorry, what was that? >> You said scour protection. Will that be in front of the anywhere we add walls? >> Uh, mainly it's been where we have to show we have to demonstrate the design accounts for protection on the landward
side of the wall to make sure that the material behind the wall is going to be protected. >> Um, In our recent designs, we've incorporated what we call a splash pad, which represent it could be representative of like a sidewalk or
pedestrian path. Um there are many ways to handle that either with a concrete pad most simplest way or um additional rock behind the wall just to help. I'm thinking more on the seawward side.
>> Yep. That's a good point. And Austin, you want to answer that? >> Yes. >> Because some of that damage seems to occur on that side where it just gets worse and worse over time. >> Yep. >> So, I'm concerned about that on the seawward side. Austin,
>> is your concern related to damage to buildings or is it scour? Uh what's the nature of it? >> Yeah. Just where um you know the sand erodess on the seawward side and causes issues. Gotcha. >> You know, the negative things that I
read about seaw walls all talk about what's happening on the seawward side. So, are we addressing that, considering it? Um, I'd like you to at least speak to it now or the next time we meet. >> Absolutely. Uh, so
I would prefer to see scour protection on the front side of all of the walls that we build. Um, sometimes we we face difficulty with that because of restrictions for sea turtle nesting.
>> Um, sometimes those rocks are considered obstructions to sea turtle nesting and they're not allowed. Um, so the alternative to that is to create a stronger wall with a deeper panel and then if you ever do have a storm where
uh the beach is scoured out um just replacing that sand. So, um, it it really has to do with the specifics of the site and what could be allowed in terms of permitting. Um, but personally, I I agree with your thoughts
that if we can add rip wrap in front of those walls that it's something that we can do. It's just not always the case for for permitting reasons. >> Ideally, we would put rock and then cover it with sand so that um there there would be rock
to support the walls. uh or to add in that scour protection, but we would need still need to have sand on top of it to make sure there was enough depth for turtle nesting season. That's what we had to do for Bonita Beach Club. Um there is rock there if it's buried. So
there is some level of protection. >> That's all I'm asking for is that you address those concerns and and u then speak to them when we we have the opportunity for the different sites. >> Yes, ma'am. And then >> thank you. For areas like Times Square, the the scour isn't so much of a concern
because you're already you're in the developed area of the island. So, there's a lot of there's already hard surfaces, >> right? >> Um that provide protection for scouters. >> Thank you, Elizabeth. >> Conditions. >> Go ahead, Austin.
>> All right. So this is the last location that we studied um on a sight specific basis and it's an interesting one. Uh so this area there's a coastal resource uh
coastal barrier resource area designated here. Um and you see that there's a very wide open beach. And so what that presents is an opportunity for ecological restoration.
>> Castle beach. >> Um and that res restoration could also support uh wave mitigation and ultimately even a map vision um if it was robust enough. It's not something that we considered for a lot of the
other areas of the island because the beach is a bit thinner. there's not really the space to do the type of robust uh restoration that would be necessary. Um, but here there is that space. So, it's something I wanted to at least
bring up. Um, of course, I'm sure these property owners would need to be on board for anything like that in terms of their views. Um, there there might be a pretty significant dune added here in a restoration project with some vegetation.
Um, so it'd be important to make everybody's on board with it, but I think it presents a really nice opportunity um not just for wave mitigation, but for a more comprehensive ecological restoration and uh maybe even an
educational opportunity um for for any surrounding uh schools or or firms that want to look at uh you know how best to do ecological restoration. Uh, so just something I wanted to throw out
there. Um, if it's not something that's preferred because it probably would be a little um on the expensive side. Um, it's still possible to do the wave mitigation structure. Now, since this is on the south side of the island, the south end
of the island, uh, the still water elevation is a bit lower because it's toward the end. And so we see that there's a a limit to the wave mitigation structure elevation of 7.5. >> And when I say limit, that just means
that that's uh the the height necessary for the same result as we were seeing elsewhere. >> And so it's a little lower what's necessary here. And you can actually see here, I think this may be uh the emergency BM uh that's reflected in the
topography. We get elevations up even up to 5.5. So this structure has an exposure of of only 2 feet in this case. >> Austin, when you said significant dune, what uh what are you thinking? What's
significant to you? >> It would you'd probably want it to match some of the surrounding uh ecological areas. Uh so you can see that this is it's got lagoons. Um, it's got uh, you know,
beach rles, uh, short little dunes in between the lagoons. I'm not saying add a lagoon here, but to match that topography and maybe even make it a little more robust, we might be looking at a series of 5-ft dunes rather than
just one. Um, it it really comes down to u ecologically and and ultimately um how the town would like to see it done. >> There's not any right or wrong way to do
it as long as you're taking into account u the parameters that we're trying to focus on. >> Thank you. some some things you need to keep in mind there that what you were just talking about looks like the critical wildlife area to me and then uh also in that area is uh nesting for
birds. So we need to keep that in mind as well. >> Absolutely. So anything that would be done here if it was a priority um in terms of restoration would take into the take
those things into account. Um I just wanted to highlight that since there is such an open area um that there there is an opportunity here to do something like that. >> Thank you. >> All right. And then uh the last example
I had was related to this particular site. Um this is an area where they actually did have a lot more space. Uh this is over on the east coast. And so you can see that they did do some restoration uh and
some some dune enhancement, some plantings and then they also maintain some open space. They have some parts. They ultimately still have uh the wave mitigation wall or some form of wall or retaining wall.
Um, so this is by no means what I'm saying that we should do here. Uh, but it's a good example. It's something that could be pulled from. Um, yeah. Anyway, >> all right. So that concludes the sight
specific studies that we've done so far. Those are meant to be representative of um larger areas for the island as a whole. Um so I'm open to any questions uh for that. I think we might wait till till
the end to go through it in in detail and questions. Uh but um I wanted to highlight some of the work that's still to be done on our part. Um we're currently working through
some crosssections uh for the island or for each of these areas. So, of course, you're looking at a plan view of what it would look like uh from the air, but if we're actually out there
exploring the island, uh we're not looking at it from the air. So, we want to provide some cross-sections to really show in detail uh what we're proposing and and what could be done out there um in terms of the way mitigation
structures, uh different strategies in different locations, things like that. Um, so we're still working on those conceptual cross-sections. Um, a couple other items that we're working through are identifying funding opportunities and strategies.
Then an implementation plan for how this uh wig mitigation feature would be how it could be built. Um and then uh identifying opportunities for the north end of the island. Uh the last time we spoke we noticed that the the very north
end of the island is uh quite exposed and it actually has a Vzone crossing the entire island. So um anything that would be applied to that north end of the island might need to be applied to both sides. Um, you may
need uh not just a wave mitigation structure on the beach front, but also on the back side by bunch Bay, St. Carlos Bay facing Bunch Beach, sorry. Um, and then finally, um, I think
Elizabeth can probably speak more to this, but we are working in parallel, uh, for some other private property owners. Um we have a couple contracts working with them um to look at the same thing on a sightsp specific basis for their uh specific properties.
>> Yeah. So, so we are assisting a couple of uh property owners in Times Square at implementing their own uh wave mitigation structure for their particular property and then another property that's um clo adjacent to
Lonnie Kai. So, um we wanted to be transparent about that and let y'all know that those are in the works. Um, and I can field any questions you may have about that.
>> I would assume you would integrate whatever designs they're going to have into what would potentially could be a town project as well. >> Yes. I think the positive aspect of this is if you've got the same, you know, our team is is working on those projects. It's going to, you know,
if they go through, it's going to look and feel the same like it hopefully would be a consistent And ideally, I would love to have something more cohesive, you know. >> How close are you, Elizabeth, to having a project getting approved through the
state to be able to get started so people could actually see this? >> Uh, very close. I mean not well on outrigger we um we put the pause on the state permitting just until we think we want to do it
with the um hopefully the ultimate development plan. Um but we do have the approval from FEMA for that um the conditional approval that would basically change the flood
zone once that structure is in place. So, um I you know the most recent state approval is going to be the one on Hickory Island. That one was approved and it's it's built and we're getting it certified here very soon.
>> So, good. >> Yeah, that would be the night that would be the one to be able to see be >> Yeah. Yeah, I know. Um and then I I think we did mention it the hydrodnamic modeling. I think that's
going to be very interesting. Um and we'll have that ready for our next presentation. Be be able actually show you simulations of how the waves are behaving with the structures installed and we'll be able to show that um basically that condition
>> both with the structure installed and without. >> Yes. >> Very good. Yes, I think that's very important not only for y'all but for the public to see that uh path forward. So, we wanted to make
sure um you did not have any additional uh locations that you would like us to look at um based on compared to what we've already presented. Um, I think what we've done to date is representative of the different major
areas on the island and gives us a good understanding of of the criteria needed for that um, mitigation structure. And as we move into looking at the conceptual cross-sections, basically the
cross-sections will show a view extending from the Gulf, the active beach, um the the doing restoration activities that have occurred, the location of this wave mitigation structure and the landward properties.
So you can see it in perspective of what it would look like. Um but we could also consider opportunity for adding public spaces along with this project you know with this structure. Um so that that's
the next items of discussion are in that vein of of what other features could be provided um in tandem with the structure. So again, there's the structure doesn't have to be
ugly. It can be aesthetically pleasing. It can fit in the landscape of where wherever portion of the island it's in. Um there's opportunities to add a pedestrian or multi-use path with it like on the landward side. Obviously, it provides additional
seating areas. Um, and item D on the agenda, we put like a a list of other public space priorities with a question of what is important. Um, >> this would be an interesting data point
to put out to the public to see, >> you know, if this goes forward, what what would be important >> aspects to for people to see, >> right? So, I thought it would be good maybe >> I had the idea of maybe issuing a maybe a survey or something through social
media that say, "Hey, what's important to you, the public, and kind of get a um a cross-section of what that would what that is. >> Well, this would be interesting as you go forward if you're dealing with property owners. I'm assuming you got to get their sign off to do some of this to
to see if any of this, you know, if they're going to want to participate in it. Yeah. >> What of these would be something they'd be willing to >> deal with essentially? >> Yes. Yes. Um that I think there are obviously some key priorities, you know, such as be
beach access, pedestrian multi-use paths, seating features, shade structures, uh bike racks. Um I think the last one which you know a public monitoring data point or high water mark post would be interesting. Um, and also provide the
town good data if if it's something that could be recorded, you know, regularly. Um, >> I think the shade structures will be a popular one. >> Yes. Like um so moving into other discussion items and these were these were discussion
items that came out of our um our previous previous talk with Tracy, Will and Frankie. Um just looking at I think Austin alluded to this about the north end of the island, how it's really exposed um from both sides of the Gulf
and the bay. So that we would have to look at doing something on the Gulf side and on the bay side um as far as bolstering being able to bolster the bay side and reduce those waves.
And then we talked about uh potentially a opportunity at the public parking area near 1240 Eststerero Boulevard. I think the town has a small parking lot. Um it may be a good place to try as like a
pilot project. Um >> well it might be something if you're dealing with that property owner on the other side. >> Yeah. >> And the property owner on either side may want to partake in so you get a bigger sample size. >> Yes. compared to just that little sliver of land that we've got there.
>> Might be something worth talking to them to see if, you know, pilot program >> would make sense if they're going to do it anyway, that little section that we have, >> right? >> You know, I've talked to both those property owners and both seem pretty much on board of wanting to be involved in this. So, this might be the
opportunity to reach out to them to say, "Hey, we're going to do this and mobilize this. Mobilize once and >> yeah, >> cover the entire area." I did want to share um um the local university for uh Florida GF Coast University. They are
actually studying a um hybrid dune condition um on in their own school's work where they've got more of a structural base and then have sand, you know, have a sand dude on top and and they're very excited about this work
that we're doing and they would love to be able to uh I think be involved in a opportunity to have that have like a real rural study Mhm. >> perform, you know. So, it might be a good opportunity to to
um kind of show support for their educational program. >> Sure. >> They may want to they may want to help participate with data collection. >> Sure. >> Stuff like that. >> Good internship opportunities for data collection for
>> people writing thesis. >> Yeah. um because they've done a lot of work out just through their own um studies. They've done different studies about nutrients in the Gulf and uh sea life
and how that changes with all the wave action and hydrodnamic movement. So, um they've been very uh interested in what we're doing. >> Would you need anything from us, Elizabeth, to allow them to get
involved? No, I think I mean if you're okay with us talking to them, that would be great. >> Uh, yes. >> I don't think you're going to get a lot of objection. >> I just thought it was a great opportunity to show a good relationship
with the university. >> I absolutely agree. >> Yeah. >> Yep. >> Yeah. Please do. >> Keep us on the cutting edge too of what works. and Austin can attest um you know they're actually teaching this type of hybrid system in the other universities
uh for coastal engineering as being the you know the best approach to coastal flood mitigation wave action mitigation. Um so I think I think that was pretty interesting that that's the the latest approach. Um and Austin you
can you can speak more on that if you want. >> Yeah. Uh while I was at the University of Florida, one of the key things that we were discussing was uh you know looking at the site holistically and then identifying
based on your limitations of space, you know, if you can't do a full restoration like we talked about for that south end of the island, what can you do? And what comes up more often than not is a hybrid solution where you're using nature-based
features. You're using maybe a sand dune. Um you're using some plantings. You're using rock for rip wrap. Um but you're also incorporating that into a a hardened structure because you don't have the space for that natural feature
to take the full uh the full force of a storm. Um, so you're kind of combining the two, getting the benefit ecologically and recreationally and and all the other ways of a nature-based feature, uh, but still incorporating,
uh, a hardened structure for the purpose of actually, you know, protecting from one of those larger storm events because those dunes are really good at absorbing the impact of a smaller storm event. The the lower surges of five or six feet,
the the waves from storms like that. Um, but once you get into a a larger event like a a hurricane Ian or something similar to it, those dunes are I mean they're washed away for the most part. And so you need
something to reinforce that that's hardened that's going to withstand it. And that's what the hybrid feature is supposed to do. And that's why it's been uh with how many larger storms we're seeing um that's why it's being taught,
you know, if you can incorporate those nature-based features, always do that. But the hybrid solution to to protect against larger events is seems to be preferred at least from an academic standpoint. >> Well, Austin uh and Elizabeth, I might
add to that. um on your section D work to complete identify funding opportunities and strategies. If you could work with the universities on our behalf, um you know, they get grants as well and funding opportunities. So maybe we can >> piggyback off of some of some of their
fundings to our benefit, our mutual benefit, I should say. >> Mutual benefit. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Thank you. >> We can certainly explore that opportunity. >> Thank you. All right. And then uh I think the last
Elizabeth, it looks like you're about to go on. >> Yeah, I was I was wrapping up and um just open it up to any other questions that the counselors may have. >> Councelor King, any questions? >> Yeah, I've been wanting to get this
answered for a while, but uh you keep talking about a hundred-year event. Are we talking in or is he in a 500year event? It's a the the short answer for Fort Myers Beach is it was a a little stronger than a 100red-year event. Um I
haven't identified, you know, exactly if it if it's a 200 or a 400 or 500, but it was stronger than a 100red-year event. I can tell you that for for the majority of >> Thank you, >> Scott. Keep taking all my questions.
>> I'm good. Thank you. Thank you guys so much. Very informative. Thank Thank you very much, >> Rebecca. >> My questions have been answered. Thank you. Thank you both. >> John, >> it's been really informative. Thank you very very much. Um I think we need to
really get this out to the public because my impression was the seaw wall and now I've learned it can be so much more than that. And uh >> and I also I I just have to think that
if we were to harden the beach accesses, then there is potentially a stronger incentive for the adjoining properties to then continue to
build out this resilience feature because whatever is not protected is going to be more exposed. And I I I hate to put that sort of that negative pressure on them, but it's it really
it I think it would help get a lot more buy in from properties up and down the beach, you know? I I really do. >> We saw that the last couple storms. I mean, just driving driving down where the water was coming in was where >> if the BM wasn't there. >> If you're not there, you're scoured. And
that's that's that's a shame. We don't want to see that anywhere. So >> yeah, I think to your point, John, education is key. You know, we just recently had a town hall that was very successful. Maybe if we're working with some of these students, >> we could have some sort of town hall where people could understand what this
hybrid means working with turtle time, working with people. So when we get to a point where we have to potentially make a decision on this, they're fully aware of what we're talking about. Because to John's point, there are still a lot of people out there that just think this is a concrete wall like you showed in Daytona where they're going to have to take an elevator to get down to the
beach and that is not the case and how there's so many designs and now when you're talking about this hybrid, how you can really bring >> ecological into it as well. I think that would really peique a lot of interest to hopefully make Chad's job a lot easier down the line when he has to get people to sign off on potentially doing this
behind their house again. As we saw after the storms when their yards were filled with sand that didn't want the burm, I think Chad could testify that the his phone probably rang quite a quite a bit more than it probably did right after Ian to sign those petitions. So yes,
>> the more education we can get out in front of these people and the more we can have them come in and ask questions of you or some of these students that can understand what does this what does this hybrid look like and how can it work behind my house or behind my you know island's end or or wherever you live along the beach. I think that'll
make our jobs a lot easier as we get towards the end and and a lot more buying. Yes. John, you have another question. >> Yeah, thank you. Um your characterization of of Ian helped to spur a couple other thoughts. I'm a visual person and I was on the island for Ian Helen and Milton. Would you be
able to classify what you would think consider Helen and Milton as versus a hundredyear storm or >> Yeah. So in terms of swell at least so water elevation I believe Helen and
Milton were closer to 25 or 50 year storms just based on FEMA's uh you know what they've published in terms of the statistical analysis. Um so I I pretty sure I'm going off the
top of my head here. The high water marks for Ian around this part of the island were about 12 feet. >> Mhm. Um, and that's based on still water elevation, those high water marks. So, that's what I'm saying that it looked like it was a bit higher than a
100red-year storm. It's because it's higher than, you know, 12 ft higher than this 11 that FEMA's designated as a 100redyear storm. But, Helen and Milton being, you know, five or six feet of surge, those are uh, you know,
statistically closer to a 25 or 50ear storm. Okay, that helps. Thanks so much. And uh thank you for today and all your hard work. Of >> course. Yeah. One one last question. You you said that's that word there that I don't think a lot of people understand. When you say still water, Mark, that's
that's still water. That's not the wave action on top of that water line. Correct. >> Right. >> Exactly. >> Exactly. >> And and how would this mitigation wall affect anything above that sill water line? Austin Austin, I'll let you I'll let you
take that. It's all it's all about how it's all about the column of the water, but go ahead. >> Sorry, Elizabeth. >> Different metric. >> I'll let you take that explanation about how the how the structures mitigate the wave impact based on a still water of 11
plus a wave height on top. >> Got it. Okay. Yeah. So, if you have a still water here of 11, um you're likely to have a wave of four to 5 ft on top of that 11. Now, there's a certain portion of that wave that's actually below the
still water elevation. >> And so, I'll I'll kind of skip over that uh the more technical part of that, but your base flood elevation and we actually have it um overview. So we know that the the still water
elevation at um Times Square for example is 11, but your base flood zone your your BFE is 15. So that 15 is what's accounting for the
extra wave action on top of that. >> What we're proposing to do is a wave mitigation wall that breaks the waves that are contributing that additional 4T. Um, so if you're breaking that wave from four feet down to a foot and a half, um,
of course you have 2 and 1/2 ft less of your base flood elevation. So instead of a V ve zone 15, you might be looking at an AE12, you know, >> and and can you explain why the wall
reduces the wave height? >> Sure. >> Okay. So the the wall um the waves that are coming in in a storm are what we call depth limited. Um so a column of water, say you have 5 ft of
water, it can only support a wave that's equivalent to about 80% of that depth. So if you have 5t of water, the maximum wave that you can have physically is 4T.
So if you put an obstruction there that sticks up an additional two or three feet, you're reducing the actual depth limited the the limit to what the wave can actually be. >> Y >> so
>> exactly. Exactly. Okay. So, if you're bringing that wave, you know, that 4ft wave down to a foot because you're you're increasing the elevation, um, that's kind of the mechanism that causes the wave to break it. >> The energy of that wave is dispersed
across the entire depth of water. It's not just the top of the water. >> And so, by providing an obstruction there to it, um, you're causing it to break and and dissipate the energy. It's the same as when you see the the waves breaking on the shoreline. It's
because the depth of the water is decreasing. >> This structure is just doing the same thing. Yeah. But your column of water is a lot deeper >> because we're dealing we're looking at it at a 100redyear level. >> And that would have an effect on both
going coming in and going out then, wouldn't it? I mean in theory because if you're less energy coming in that's less energy going out which will reduce that scouring I think that you're talking about which we saw like at Newton Park behind the wall was >> right. Yes. >> There was no sand left it just sucked it all out. >> Yeah.
>> So this would help with that. >> Yes. >> Okay. >> That's an that's an important point to be clear with public. >> I have another question if I could. Um so uh especially for commercial
properties where you've been engaged um and I can understand exactly why um h what is the process and how do you get that predetermination that you're going to be able to move the FEMA line? How do how do you actually have
confidence that what you engineer and are going to build is actually going to result in a movement of the line? >> So we we put together uh the analysis which is very similar to what we've done with this project. Um the there's also a
structural analysis that is done for the actual structure and there's uh FEMA requires that particular points of of the design are met um in order to basically this this will be a certified
structure in the eyes of FEMA meaning it is a certified flood mitigation structure. Mhm. >> Um and so the design really has to make sure that it I you know it looks at uh the maximum water level condition you
know to see what the maximum force is going to be on that structure if you have water on one side and no water on the other and vice versa. Um it asks about scour potential and protection of the material on the landward side. So there's several components that are
looked at for that structural design. Um so once those are met and in our co our coastal analysis to actually demonstrate what the flood zones would be revised to that all that's looked at from a technical review through FEMA's
contractors. They hire engineers to review these types of applications. >> Okay. >> So we go through a pretty rigorous review with that team. Mhm. >> Um and then once their technical review is satisfied,
they they prepare the what they call clo. It's a conditional letter of map revision. uh >> acceptance documents and it basically is a it's a FEMA form letter that says because of this proposed coastal
mitigation structure, you know, the flood zones couldn't be revised once that structure has been >> installed. Um there's an operation and maintenance plan that goes with the structure. Yep. >> So to make sure that it's regularly inspected >> and maintained. Um so there's several
different steps to go through. Um the applica the application is also submitted to the town or to the local jurisdiction uh because they need to be aware of the proposed revision. Um and that there's actually a section on the on the application for the town to sign
or the local jurisdiction to sign acknowledging that they've been notified of it. So that brings to mind uh a statement that Austin made about the um I can't remember which burm it was but either one of the BMS that he showed a a
picture of >> being very significant and yet FEMA stating that they thought we had a primary BM or whatever. Um, I guess one of my concerns would be not to engineer and build something so that it
satisfies FEMA, but more importantly that it satisfies the conditions on the ground. Um, and be >> you don't trust they're aligned. >> No, I'm I'm suggesting that we we build
resiliency as opposed to build to minimum standards. That's what I'm trying to suggest. >> I It makes sense, but I don't know that you could have one without the other. I mean, I I see you can build it stronger than what FEMA recommends or more resilient than what FEMA recommends, but
I don't see any way of building it less than what FEMA >> No, I weren't suggesting that. >> Yeah. I I think it's our opinion that if you're going to invest in that structure that it at least to that level
>> um >> you can always go more but >> okay we're aligned. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Elizabeth I have another question. Would you be able to provide the town um with the cost at least a range of maintaining
the requirements to maintain the wall? So that that was something we would be able to budget figure out how we would do just as a range I'm sure because that would be our next question is we might get it paid for. How do we make sure we keep it? Uh >> yes. >> And then the other
>> I think to piggyback with that the the grants available potentially that could go along with the maintenance schedule of it which you know Chad's a wizard at finding those or it seems to be anyway. >> Yeah. money that we invest that we could use the the proceeds of the investments
to pay for the maintenance ongoing. >> Yeah. Again, the education of having all avenues open is so people can understand that it's not you're building this wall or you're building this mitigation wall and now it's going to cost you x amount of dollars every year to maintain because that will be the next question. We're seeing that in other jurisdictions
over a flag. So, >> we certainly don't want to go down the same path. >> Understood. And then I'd like to make one other suggestion just for your consideration, but as you talk to the universities, I'd love to see if they could have students on on all sides. I
don't know if there's more than two but people who are thinking about it from the environmental perspective >> that they are a team and then those who are thinking of it from a mitigation side so that that they are doing the same kind of cross analysis between each
other and having debates that we may find ourselves doing with our residents. >> You mean when >> when? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. When when that makes sense. So it's not so lopsided that it's like this is all good, you know, have the students kind of take a different role.
>> It definitely has to be a balance. >> Mhm. >> That's the key. >> That'll help us address the questions. We will have >> will have >> will have. >> Yeah. >> Chad will >> Chad will have. >> Any other questions for >> presentation? Thank you.
>> So Elizabeth, where do we where what's next steps from here as far as when we'll see you again? So, we're going to wrap up our modeling efforts, and then our um the conceptual cross-sections, the grant finding, the grant funding
opportunity. Um put together the final deliverable. I'm projecting that we'll be complete uh and Austin, don't don't get mad. Probably by the I would say by the end of May.
>> Oh, okay. >> Yeah. So, early June. is I think our target. >> That's what we're going for. Y >> the uh the hydrodnamic modeling is uh pretty detailed so it could be a little longer. U but we're we're really pushing
for June >> and the May. >> Yes. Maybe on the next just an idea maybe council wants to consider or staff wants to consider at your next presentation if it is another MMP we maybe change the structure a little bit to make it more of a town hall so people could ask questions.
>> Love it. Love it. >> You know try to kill two birds with one stone. We get the presentation but maybe there's people in the in the audience that have questions that you could help us answer as opposed to We'll get back to you. >> Absolutely. >> Just thought Yeah. Well, there was one of the notes I had down um Mr. mayors
public information event. Uh we'll if we can tie it in with with an already scheduled event, we'll do that and invite the public, invite the uh different academia and uh and media and so forth so we can get all the sides and all issues out there. And also I I'll
make note now for everybody that is watching now, but even if for the council is this is is on YouTube, it's available this presentation today for everybody to watch. We'll send out uh you know advertisement uh we'll push out media push out to our residents and and so forth here so they can watch today's
presentation as well um to be informed. >> So >> great. Thanks Elizabeth. >> Thank you. >> Thanks Austin. >> Thanks Austin. >> If you don't mind I have one more uh photo I want to show. >> Okay. >> Sure.
>> Visual's good. So, this better answers the question uh that was asked last uh to me. Um this is a photo I took in a stereo bay. It's an oyster bar. I'm actually standing on it. Um but on one
side you have waves coming in. This is ob obviously a much a very scaled down version of what a storm would actually look like. It's a sunny day, but you have an oyster bar that's submerged by a few inches of water and you have waves
coming over the oyster bar, but they don't pass over it. That's effectively what this wave mitigation wall is attempting to achieve and what it does achieve. Um, the depth on either side is like 5T. Um, so I think that this
answers the question a lot better than I did. Um, so I wanted to share it. No, I think it just solidifies what you said. >> Include that in any public discussion. That's good. >> Yeah. >> And maybe, you know, some little red notes on each side so it explains what exactly you're looking at. >> Yeah.
>> Sure thing. >> Are there other things This is a little bit off topic, but are there other things we can be doing out in the the water to help this or is that not something that you're even allowed to do?
>> No. No. There are um there are opportunities to put um like artificial like reef balls out there um other types of similar features. They just interfere
with the access, you know, your water, you know, boats and things like that. So, >> I know that that concept. >> Go ahead, Austin. Say again, Austin. >> Sorry, I didn't mean to. I thought
Elizabeth was finished. Um, it introduces hazards to the beach. Um, and it changes the way that the water moves with the tides and the waves and everything. Um, and it also might introduce uh features that people might
consider unsightly. Um, so that's that's something that could definitely be explored, but it's not something that we focused on for those reasons. >> There's another critical thing, and it's how shallow the beach actually is.
So, if you were to provide any sort of structure like a breakwater um that was strong enough to withstand these waves, it would have to probably extend well above the water line. And that's what I mean when I talk about things that might be unsightly or
hazardous to boats and swimmers and things like that. So, >> thank you. That helps. >> Yeah. >> All right. Thanks, Elizabeth. We'll see you next time. >> Thank you. >> All right. Our next item is our CRA discussion. Will who's starting this?
>> Frankie. >> Frankie will be starting and I'll chime in where necessary. But, uh, yeah, Frankie will give you an update on how we're going. As you know, we have AECOM who's helping us with the study uh as well on this. And uh um go ahead,
Frankie. >> Good morning. Uh Frankie Karpachek, uh director of community development. Um as some of you know, we've started this journey a couple of years ago when we've had uh informal discussions on how we would look to uh redevelop our economic
base here in the community. Um primarily when we look at that area, it's a downtown district. Uh we're looking at Old San Carlos. We're looking at Time Square and the maps that were handed out to you prior to the meeting. That's kind of what we're focusing on in this initial um
>> they're being passed down right now. >> Okay. Sorry. >> Thank you. >> That's the area that we looked at focusing. I know that there was a a uh rough resolution drafted um to do the time square. Um, this is expanding it to
the whole what we consider in the zoning world the downtown district and we're taking it all the way to Pearl Street uh to if you look at the the dotted red there to encompass all of uh Diamond Head Resort as well.
So, we're basically corelling commercial development and that's kind of what you see in the red. We've left out residential um in this area only because a lot of the residential especially in the the true downtown area is still kind of hit
hard after Ian uh some of those uh houses are still coming back being re redeveloped that way. Um there's no sense in including them in a convention like this. The primary goal >> just for those watching that may not have a good memory and I'm one of those
CRA what how do we what is it? So, it's a community redevelopment agency. That's the acronym is CRA. >> And and what the purpose is to take all the incremental tax that you would get. Uh you had the property appraiser here,
>> I believe on Monday, and he's talking about that base influx, right? That base uh funding of what's coming in on your property and how he foresees and forecasts it. Well, when we talk about income in a town or we talk about our taxes, we're looking at that base area.
So, the base goes to the county and that gets redistributed. The increments that come upon that, the taxable increment funding is a tiff and that's how we formulate what stays into that CRA agency. So all the little increments, all those little bumps of uh increases
that you would get off of the base above the base would stay into uh that that agency that you would uh create and that would in turn help uh it it basically becomes its own little SBA, right? Uh your own little uh small business
administration, but you're also redirecting the growth of an area. One of the prime things that we have to do with the CRA is a finding of necessity. All right. It's a it's a formal way of saying, "Hey, I I've got a damaged area." And we definitely do. You know,
if you look down OCS, we have basically four or five businesses that have come back after Ian. Uh there's still a lot that are for rent, still boarded up. It's not happening. um through our own town initiative, you know, we've taken it upon oursel to now start uh looking
at putting our street lights back, uh putting some of the paving back, uh the the brick pavers, uh the the flower beds that were there, those type of things. The CRA would capture all of that. Um and would capture a unified look. Um I think >> the funding for all of that.
>> Correct. Correct. And it also stand your your your criteria for rebuilding in that area. I think uh most of us all know that when we look at uh you know we we we stand at Bayside Veterans Park and we look towards the Gulf. Our our vision is to have that as a
walkable park, a drivable park. We achieved that uh with with our birthday celebration uh just a couple of weeks ago. You know, when you when you're standing there and you look down towards Time Square, that is a park and it happens to be our down what we call our downtown area, but it's still a park. It
has the visual of a park. So containing all that area within that air uh space and redeveloping or at least having a landscape to redevelop, that's what the CRA would really capture there as well. So what we're looking at here again in red are all the areas that would fall
under that category of capturing that influx off the base tax rate and keeping it within that area. That area would provide for enhancements. It would provide for business redevelopment. it would have uh
basically a till down effect for small businesses trying to regenerate in that area as well. Um you know we just don't have the commercial structures like the resorts, the condominiums, those type of things that are in that uh in that area, but we also have a lot of small businesses that are trying to re
reestablish. So by keeping that funding in that space, you're you're basically creating its own little microcosm for businesses to develop, redevelop, and still have a plan, a global plan of the of the town. You would contain your own infrastructure repair, your own
infrastructure uh uh expansion uh within that area as well. >> Um >> so where are we at in the process? >> Well, we we've actually done a lot in the last two years. So, um, through this
exercise with the CDBGR, I I believe you guys know our our first Jason and I's first triumph was to get a planning grant. In that planning grant, originally the scope was committed towards helping with the comp plan. Um, the comp plan
was drafted a lot quicker than we could by the time we actually got the grant through the CDBGR and and actually got AECOM in in our fold. Um, since then we've actually had a formal uh revamp of that scope and it's all been vetted with
the CDBGR to supply us with what we desperately need and that is a CRA study. So to get that study done or to get a CRA, you have to have a completed study. Um, and and so they're working with us currently right now. There's a few phases that we're going to have to
go through. one of which is explaining this to you today as far as what we are the ultimate goal of this CRA would be for our community. Um and then also to to set up the parameters to move forward with. So the findings in a necessity is
a looking at blight, you know, and and and when you're looking at like an inner inner city, you're looking at, you know, a bombed out area where the buildings are just left to to ruin and they want to come in there and they want to revitalize. Um I was in Tampa over the weekend. Um seems to be my my place
regularly on the weekends. Uh but uh they had taken a lot of the area around some of the sporting venues and through commercial development or redevelopment botten up a lot of these blocks of properties and you see a lot more micro breweries. You see restaurants, you see
a lot of nightclubs uh where there wasn't anything over the last year. So you're you're re changing the dynamic. you're changing the paradigm of what is there now to what can be there. Um, we all know that prior to Ian, our OCS, did
I say that right? No. OC uh was a thriving area. You know, every little shop, every little nook and cranny all the way through Time Square uh was developed. You had people all over the place. It was never a lack of anything to do, go see or drink or eat.
Um, we need to get back to that spot. So if we let it on its own demise, business sometimes doesn't always take the right spot, the right lead. Um, and through the last two years in looking at this and now having a partner to help us with that study, uh, we could possibly have
all of this moving by midsummer. Um, and that's coming to you formally with our findings of necessity. also taking that if if approved by council, taking that up to the BOCC and having their approval and acting it in place. There's a lot of
other little steps that have to be involved after uh we bring the proposal to you with our study, setting up a board, um those type of things. Having all that in place before we go to the BOCC once it's acknowledged there and
granted we could be hitting the ground running by no later than Labor Day. >> So we are at that spot where we could actually get this off the ground >> this Labor Day. >> Yes sir. And and what we'll have along the way is a couple offormational meetings with the community. AECOM is
going to be supplying those type of things with the stakeholders, all the businesses that are included in this area to bring them in here to talk to them about the benefits of how they're actually going to be able to enhance their properties, enhance their their outcome by getting involved with this.
So, all that will be explained to the stakeholders, to the communities, and that all through this process. It's basically a win-win for the town with us guiding the way to help people that may not know or may not realize
that you can achieve something back. You know, uh I think at our town hall that we had the other night, uh somebody said brought up the question about, "Oh, I thought we'd be farther along." You know, it's my ultimate goal here since I've joined uh the town three years ago
to prove that we can be back a hell of a lot quicker than a lot of communities. And we have accomplished a lot in a short period of time. Whether people realize it or not, there's still a lot that we can accomplish. This is one that can really set the tone. If the CRA
takes off and works in the downtown area, there's no saying that you couldn't establish one at the south end of the area, uh, the town. Um, those type of things. Uh, that's what a lot of communities do. They see how it reacts and they go to develop. Um we we
currently have a little lay in the state where they're not actively going after um CRAAS as much as they were maybe a year or so ago. Um this is the time to actually start moving. We've already had uh preliminary talks with a couple of
the members of the BOCC to kind of test the waters and I think those meetings went rather well. Uh they're very receptive to helping us at that level. So this is the time to to act. Um, we have the information, we have the data, uh, we have the partner to help us with
that data. Um, and I can answer any other questions that you might have. >> Um, >> I have some concerns actually. Um, one is that any incremental tax that is generated inside that area is only to
the benefit of that area and that's a concern. Um, we have economic development occurring in that area with obviously, thank goodness for Margaritavville as the anchor, but
private private businesses like the Arches and >> um, and Lighthouse have got great plans to redevelop in a worldclass fashion.
And while I agree that I don't like walking down old San Carlos and seeing buildings that have been shuttered and nothing has been done with them, I feel like that's where the economic activity is actually occurring. So I I understand
some of the benefits, but I feel like that's an area that's actually is developing. When you look at the needs of the entire island, where do we hear the strongest objection of lack of services? It's on the south end. So,
I do have some concerns and I do understand the benefit to some of the small businesses coming back in that area in that whole um but I'm interested in learning a lot more because >> so to your point counselor it's not just
about that we're not increasing taxes we're not doing any of that we're capturing the proposed increase and keeping it and to your point what it does is it actually sets a a different dynamic uh we would be able to have that CRA
that agency be in control of architectural design. >> What it does do what it does do though and you have to acknowledge this is that the incremental taxes that are generated within that area are required to be spent in that
area. That is correct. It means that perhaps the economic driver of our island, which is tourism, which is the night life and the everything that we have on the north end, >> the rest of the island is not going to
see the benefit of that. >> I'll play devil's advocate on that a little bit. You know, obviously you want to look at an area that is going to bring in the most incremental tax, right? >> Fair. But by doing that, that frees up
actual tax dollars that can be used in other areas. So if we don't have to spend tax dollars in a CRA area because that is being offset by the incremental tax that you take in from that area, you can then reallocate those funds to areas like that you're talking about. >> No, you can't. You're not able to reallocate. Not not the tiff tax. I'm
talking about the normal aderum tax, the normal tax that we budget for. If you don't have to put into rebuilding Bayside Park if it was damaged because you can use tiff funds for that. That's funding that you would normally have to budget for for that area that you no longer have to budget for that area that
could be used for other areas. And I'm not trying to say that's an answer. I'm just trying to say that's >> you're shifting, right? You're shifting where your your allocated funds are through your budgeting process to the areas that I think you're just you're talking about. >> Infrastructure council is is is your
biggest cost right here right now. So to take the area that is the most used and primarily would be the most used over the coming months with the rebuilding of the uh the parks, the pier, uh those type of things and getting those people down there. Your infrastructure, your
sewer, your water, those type of things, those connections currently are coming out of plans that we develop that come out of our regular tax base. That would be all captured within that CRA. So you'd be able to do sewer work expansion, road expansion, those type of things.
>> Agreed. and I'm very new coming into this, so I'm I'm just stating that I have questions, concerns, and I've got some skepticism about it. Um, from what I understand, these are typically like decades long agreements that you
enter into, which >> yeah, >> that we're not, this isn't short-term fix here. We're our peer is coming back. As soon as the Armor Corps of Engineers drops that permit, Lee County is all over that pier. It's going to be a year
before it comes back there. I I feel like this is a great idea that should have been done before Margaritavville was built when that actual area was blighted as opposed to
>> a recovery from a storm which is what we're very successfully doing. I agree with you. There are areas where we have property owners that are for one reason or the other not moving the way we would
like them to do but there are plenty that are. Um anyways that those are my comments. I have not made up my mind on this at all. I'm just you know as I'm being introduced to this concept.
I have questions. >> Yeah. I'll give you a quick example. I was speaking with Mayor Anderson not that long ago about some of the benefits that they've been able to to do from their CRA project that they have, which we've had a lot of communication with them about how they went through their process. It's very detailed. If you get
a chance to read it, it's actually really it's really interesting. And one of the things they've been able to do is funds that they would have been spending in that CRA area. They've been able to reallocate as I was saying earlier. And one of the programs that they've started not that long ago is they're buying up
properties that are just sitting derelct. And then they're able to build homes and get homes into people for people who can't necessarily at much lower cost because they don't, you know, they're donating the land essentially. >> And it's it's a much more in-depth program than what I'm talking about, but it essentially gets people into homes
and investing back into the community that normally wouldn't be able to be able to do that. And I think they're up to five or 10 homes now that they've been able to to build and get to them at a at a rate >> that they can afford the mortgage because it's a teacher or it's a policeman or a fireman that aren't
making $200 $300,000 a year, but they're able to stay in the community that they live in and be able to afford. So that's the kind of funding that they can shift because the CRA is is covering the area to build back that they don't have to put funds into. It's just one example of things that you can do.
>> Yeah. I I was yesterday I was in Bonita Springs and you drive down >> old 41 and it and it's no question it's more attractive than it would have been. >> It it can be very effective. My question is is it the right place, the right time
to do this? >> Honestly. Um and and like I said, I have not I'm not objecting to it. I have questions about it. It's it's our our duty to to show you what we have >> to lay our cards out on the table and explain to what the conclusions that we
came with and and how we got there. Um and and we will basically be doing that in the days that come as well. >> I think it's important uh since we're kind of on that topic of of the funds and how they might be used to talk about the governance of this a little bit, Frankie. So once approved, if if it is
approved in the future, the council would then um be uh responsible for appointing director and a board that would that would then u manage that CRA, reporting to the council on how and
determine how they're going to utilize those funds, you know, and everything within. Frankie, you can talk a little bit more about that because we've talked with some of the others who >> Sure. City Cape Coral is a good example. Um, I live there, but you know, when we moved there 10 years ago, that whole
47th Street area where a lot of the popular restaurants are and things like that off of the Cape Coral Parkway area, uh, was they were nothing. They were it wasn't being utilized properly. Um, you know, that the town had already moved and Cape Coral calls it downtown, but
Cape Coral is also 200,000 people. So, it's spread out and that's kind of been was a forgotten wasteland and they wanted to try to revitalize it. So they created a CRA for the downtown district and it did revitalize it and the funds are kept there for sidewalk repairs, for
lighting, for for all those types of things. Tourism had increased almost 43%. Since that project kicked off. Now we know that the pier is going to bring tons of people. We know that right after the storm, we had basically the three
restaurants up on the north end. And you know, now that they opened up another one there on on Third Street and and so on and so forth down the road, but we still have a long way to go. We have a lagoon in that back area off of Mr. Rashard's property that could be used.
We talk about expanding the town. Uh you brought up a good point with with Arches possibly breaking ground sometime. Water taxi, we talk about all those type of things where we can bring people into the area. The CRA can take
care of that. The CRA can help with that lagoon area and and have a a a place for a water taxi to come in. A CRA can help develop and have the funds to dredge that canal to allow a water taxi to come in. So it you're right, those funds stay
there, but those funds work for you over and over again. And to the mayor's point with Mayor Anderson did is after Milton, they put up those tiger dams in front of all their businesses. their businesses were up and running within days, not weeks, not months. That money, those
people that come there to use those restaurants and those businesses weren't put out. They were there. They were there the next couple of days. It's so vital to us when you come over that bridge to have that area intact, not just for the view, but for the businesses that are there. You mentioned the lighthouse. You mentioned the arches
in in in Margaritavville. If we ever have a place like we did got done with Miss Fountain's uh presentation, the ability to be able to bounce back bounce back quicker, not having to look for other funds. Those funds would be
intact to help those businesses resilient. We're talking about a mitigation wall. Those things can be done with funding through the CRA for those businesses in that area. So there's a lot of things that we we can reach out that would help not only those
businesses but also reflect on the town as a whole. You know, when people come over the bridge, they just don't stop there. They get Sorry, I'm onehanded these days. Um they go down the entire island. And to your point, the South End, yes,
desperately need something, too. You know, we're holding on to Santini, but we're also holding on to a marina that's in the process of redevelopment. We're also bringing more restaurants down to that area. Regardless of what happens here, we know that that's going to to to get to that point eventually. This would
be this the the starting point, that first stepping stone across that creek, then Mid Island, then South Island, and we would have a complete economic base from tip to tip. And I guess that was the vision two years ago. It's even more
so now. But, uh, we can definitely explain how we've got to those conclusions and and and show you our path. >> Oh, >> do you mind if I >> No, I don't. >> Just as a followup. So that CRA once it's established that board would if if
you add the south south end or or mid island it'd still be the same board that would or it would be a different >> So what what what would have to be done is you would have to ask for another CRA or a tiff area to be established in those areas. But yes, once that board is established, they could oversee the
entire island >> because that's that's how Fort Myers is, right? They they've got the down >> they have the downtown Harlem Heights. They've got but it's the same board that controls all those >> different areas. So, >> yes, I believe it is.
>> Okay. Just want want to clarify that. >> Okay. I'm going to have to try to stay calm. >> Um I think CRAAS can be wonderful. This is not none of this is personal. >> I think CRAAS can be wonderful. Um let's
not forget we live on a seven mile barrier island. We are not Fort Meyers, but we understand how Fort Myers operated. Um, for the public's understanding, we're talking about increase in property tax. So, we're at a base. Increase in property tax would go
to, I would give them the analogy of like a 429. If you have kids and, you know, little kids and you want to save for their college, you're putting that money into a CRA trust >> and you're saying we can only use it, you know, for our kids' college. There's
a little there's guidelines around it, but what you are saying as a family is if we need a new car, we can't take that money and use it. We're doing the same thing for the town, right? We put that increased tax base in the trust. That doesn't go to the town's general fund,
which then, you know, will and council all figure out what our prior priorities are today. So, we we give up some things to get that advantage. So, >> I think we just need to make sure everyone understands what you're balancing. It's not free money. It's
redirecting money and putting criteria around it first. >> My my next question would be um I would be interested in deciding how we came up with the area and could the CRA be the whole island? I'm not I'm not sure. We could probably call our whole island
kind of blight from the hurricane. I just put that out there. Um I am with John 100%. I do not believe the CRA money should be focused on the downtown area. Um I think they're doing great.
Every time we look at new projects coming up, we are thinking about infrastructure and how can our island support, you know, big projects like London Bay, Seagate, we'd be stuck with, sorry, we can't help your infrastructure down here that may have been, you know,
affected by it because we can only use this money up in Times Square. Um, again, then I would add some more things to it that say, um, I want to make sure that we're supporting a yearround community here, Frankie. That is why I'm
sitting here. Um, we love our tourists. I mean, this was the most exciting season. But we also have a fair amount of people who live here. So, I want to make sure that any CRA activity is linked to our comprehensive plan. at the
same weight we give all those different things residents, you know, would would benefit from the CRA, not just tourism and helping our our tourist support. Pretty much like what John is saying. Um, again, I'd like to see what
incentives you have, what things you're looking for to do in the CRA. I like the buying back of property, maybe some more parks, um, again fixing our infrastructure, maybe some workforce housing, but I want to know what the
public, the people who live here, benefit from that CRA. Um, so I think that they can shape our island for decades to come. It's a long-term investment and so I just want to make sure we are tying that to the comprehensive plan. Then the one last
thing I would say is when I was doing my research, I found that the the boards in most places are the council because we don't we sit here to represent the people. We're not giving that up to someone else to decide and then kind of
come to us and ask if it's okay. So I would like to consider that the town council, whoever they be, uh voted in over the next, you know, few decades, those are the people who sit on that board. uh like other you know other communities just some thoughts and
recommendations >> my understanding was the boards were advisory council similar to the TDC but the council would be the ultimate decision makers based on recommendations that the board doesn't make the recommendation or doesn't make the final decision they make the recommendation to
the council to make the ultimate decision that's that's my understanding >> that is correct that is correct that's the way it works in Cape Coral that's the way it basically works in Fort Myers as well the district controls the district and gets the asks in that district. Uh the agency does uh but then
they go to the town and say these are the the asks within our our bubble here, our little dome. Do you approve or disapprove? Those type of things. >> My fear is that a lot of work could be done up front before it comes to us to be like you're not aligned with the comprehensive plan or you're not aligned
with the vision. So maybe we find a hybrid so that you're not spinning a lot of wheels on something that you come here and then we say no. So maybe um projects or topics or things that we'd like to gear the CRA funds towards
and then they go back to this group whoever they are to focus on those areas then come back for approval. >> So I can just add there are variations. Um CRAAS exist throughout the state of Florida. Um generally um Councilwoman
Link is correct. Um typically it is the governing body. Um but there are some variations of that um that could be discussed. Um the you know they always say the devil's in the details and that's where I earn my money. Right.
Yeah. Um but associated with the creation of a CRA is the adoption of a um CRA plan and the any expenditures that the CRA um
accumulates through its trust um can only be spent in accordance with the projects that are identified in that plan. And that is a big area of dispute and um legal issues. um associated with
that. So I I'm really impressed with Frankie um Labor Day. Again, the devil's in the details. Um there is some specific um process that has to be followed that is statutory. Um and we do
have to um adhere to each one of those criterias and processes. There's noticing requirements. there's um you know the the adoption of resolutions um which we can do. I'm not being a naysayer here, but I'm just cautioning
that um there's a lot that goes into it. The CRA does function as an independent um a dependent special district. So it is another legal entity that is created. it is its creation and demise is
dependent on the um the town council itself and I can talk about this at at nauseium and I don't want to make you guys listen to it but um I'm happy to work with Frankie and uh the manager and and get all the um the bottom line
things in place but but the first challenge is really to get that finding of necessity struct uh study done and once that's done and it's reviewed, then we could start setting it up to um addressing all the criteria that's in
the uh the statute. >> I I agree with that and Nancy, you know, I love to live in the details as well. That's how I make my living. Um I just again want to make sure we are tying to our comprehensive plan and that we are
in alignment with the strategic plan that we're doing as well. Not that we have uh go one direction in one plan and a different direction in our strategic plan. So if we just keep all those pieces together, that would make me feel good. Y
>> um in regards to the strategic plan, there is a an objective and an action item for the redevelopment of the town of Fort Myers Beach that includes the opportunity to do a study to see if the findings of necessity meets that
criteria to move forward with the CRA if it's worthwhile and the in the council agrees to that action. Is there any type of timeline on when that study um the conclusion of the finding of necessity study would be done? >> So the finding of necessities the draft
was already done. Um it's going to wait until after our discussion here today and then within the next week it's going to be sent to AECOM for review and start collaboration on that. Uh and we should have that to you hopefully by the end of
May meeting. >> Okay. So, um I I'd like to get a copy of it and take a look at it to make sure that we are following the procedure that's in statute and then we can uh seamlessly proceed forward with it.
>> Yes, seems reasonable. >> Anything else? >> No, but thank you, Frankie. I I I'm sure you understand. I'm a holistic ma'am. Thank you, >> Scott. >> Yeah, I I understand your concerns. Um,
if you look at if you look at uh Fort Myers's website um with their CRA, it it it's not just businesses, it's infrastructure, it's residential grant programs, it's commercial grant programs, it's public arts, it's for affordable housing, and it's
>> But I agree with you. If we we do this, we can't just be hyperfocused on, oh, we're just we're just going to make this area we're and business is going to boom. It's got it's got to be a whole comprehensive package, >> right? But that CRA enables you to do that. And if we can get that wave
mitigation wall as as a piece of that, that's going to be huge. >> But that would have to be kind of, you know, maybe more broad. So not just Times Square, >> you know. >> Well, I mean, it's it's all the way from Diamond Head all the way down. So it's it's it's a large area, but to Frankie's
point, that would be the first step. Then the second step is you identify another another area of the island that that needs a kickstart that needs some help that that can go. I I mean this is this is to your point it's going to be a 20
30 year process. I mean that Fort Meyers um CRA has been existence since the 80s, right? >> Believe so. In some some form or fashion it has. Yes. >> So >> it's just a vehicle for where funds go. I just want to make sure we're >> we're not pulling funds that we give
will away and you know what we have to live with. Um you know things that may go to the general fund that we need or >> just want to make sure everybody understands >> what we get for it, what we're giving up in return. And >> but to to the mayor's point as well,
councilwoman is it it actually would help those funds that the town has to use in other areas. Uh it would free up some of those funds that would have been earmarked for uh tearing up the streets and like on Third Street and putting in
new uh new storm sewer, those type of things would now be recaptured by that area. >> Okay. And I would want to see specifics if this we could use that. Yeah. Not >> I'm not >> And that's what's included in the scope. Just just like uh the counselor said, we we need to we need to have all that
pertinent information in there. um it is a requirement and so you're it's like a wish list right when you're drafting this every possible thing that we can contain in there and that can be reached within a reasonable um amount that's kind of what we had put in there so yes ma'am
>> so are you thinking maybe this is just a coincidence that the CRA discussion and the wave mitigation engineering study came together maybe it's a coincidence maybe it's not but has that been some of the thinking before I joined that that may be a great use for it because I can see where that support is there And I
can maybe even buy you into that. That's kind of what you're looking for. >> It's kind of a it's a complex answer. So the the talk of mitigation wall came long long before the storm back when m when Grand Resorts was proposing doing it for the town at their cost. So that
technically was the chicken before the egg, right? And the egg was Ian >> and and that and that's when the mitigation well then we started talk we talk about CRAAS for since almost the day after the storm. So that talk started. So technically the mitigation
talk came first then the CRA and now that the mitigation is coming back into play after the initial discussions of the CRA. So they're they're kind of intertwined. It wasn't one because of the other. >> Right. But are you thinking that that would be a good use for the CRA? >> Certainly. I think would be one of >> I mean is that kind of what you have in mind?
>> Yeah. And and and to the mayor's point a good good point to that was we we're stuck with Times Square right here. Here we're stuck with an L and nothing around it. And uh we know that we don't want the trailers. We know we don't want this. We we are actively looking for
developers to come in there and put a brickandmortar place back in. Well, the town's got to step up, too. You know, those those little brick pavers, I can't tell you that the three of us here uh have have shoveled sand and pavers many times after every storm. So, the thought
came not too long ago, well, let's let's do away with that. FEMA would love us if we did away with the brick pavers. Well, how we go about doing that? Well, we come in with like a decorative concrete surface throughout Times Square, you know, and then, okay, if you build back, what what are you going to do then? You
know, here the town's investing all this money. Well, then you proportionately charge whatever their their footage is for the cost of us putting in the concrete in front of those things. Well, under that concrete, we know that the sewer has to be replaced. The portable water lines have to be replaced. The
electrical is we still can't find half of the electrical connections in Time Square. So, those type of things were were were talked about then. The the not that it's an easy fix because it's going to take a little time too to once the if the CRA was established, but those
things would be contained in there. it would be self-contained and that would be monies and time that the town didn't spend there to put into aren't >> some of those developers already um already have an opportunity to do their own mitigation wall um as maybe some of
that is the public benefit that you know they can offer us um you know we have London Bay or the outrigger you know and they're saying you know I'm already studying to do the wave mitigation wall so to make sure that we're using our money where we need it and let the
developers, you know, that's their part maybe of kicking in. >> Yes, ma'am. >> I think I I made my case, but thank you for listening. Thank you, Frankie. >> Scott, anything else? >> No. >> John, >> good discussion. Thank you. Um, John,
um, I I can understand where you're coming from. First thing I thought when I saw this map was, uh, it's just the opposite of NIMBI. It's not not in my neighborhood, but why is it not in my neighborhood? Um, so so that helps.
Mayor, thank you for what you added to that discussion as well. That helps balance some things, I think, as well. Um, council MLAN, I'm not sure why the previous councils didn't do something about this, but um, we've been trying to get this going for at least a couple
years now, as Frankie has said. So, uh, I think we have to start somewhere and then look, um, at at at the big picture. And rightly or wrongly, uh, as someone that sits at the south end of a bridge, all I ever hear is about a bridge, uh, when there are two in this town.
>> Um, but the focus for a lot of folks, rightly or wrongly, is on the north end and in the Times Square and Old St. Carlos area. So, um, thanks for all of this information and this discussion. Yeah. I think the other thing we have to
realize too is last year we almost had a gun to our head that they were going to change the law and we we could >> they were going to do away with them. Yeah. >> Well, two years ago. >> Yeah. Two years ago. I'm I'm sorry. Two years ago. So, we were looking at doing this two years ago, but >> it would have been rushed. >> I I think it wouldn't have been right.
And now we've got the opportunity here with with this pause that we we can actually get it done and do it right. >> Plan it and think about it. >> Scott, I want to be super clear because I I hope I was at the outset. I'm not in opposition. I just have a lot of questions around
>> No, you and that's why we did this so you guys would would get get an understanding but if based on that history two years ago we we might have done this and might have done it wrong. >> Yeah. >> So now we've got the opportunity to do it right. >> Yeah. No, I'm I'm all for seeing what is
coming. >> Sure. >> I do have a couple of concerns. the our concentrates have concerns. A lot of people it's it it's a new area that we're we're diving into. So, it's it's good that we have this discussion >> and I'm glad we're
doing it correctly, following the right rules, ensuring that we've got experts that for example are so impressed with the J.R. Evans. >> Sure. >> I mean, expertise is important in doing any of these sorts of things. I
certainly appreciate that it's being done correctly and I'm very much interested and engaged in learning as it goes forward. That's that's where I stand. >> Awesome, John. >> That uh that took care of what I had.
Thanks. >> Yeah. The only thing I really have to add is, you know, there's a lot of discussion about we're forgetting a major key part of this that this has to be signed off on by the BOCC. >> So, you have to have a very good plan in place. I can tell you in having conversations with them two years ago,
there was really not an appetite for doing this because they will lose money at the county level, right? >> So, at the time, right after the storm, like much like we were, we're not sure where we're going to be, nor were they. So, there was a lot of reluctance. I think now we've got a little bit more
buy in as to what we're trying to do here. Um maybe that's part of the reason why the downtown district was picked because there are some of the entities that the county owns around that area >> um to help maybe get some buyin to be able to approve this because again at the end of the day they have to ultimately approve it. So having that
plan in place, I think I agree with Scott. You know, the fact that, you know, we had a little pressure from from the state about potentially getting rid of it because people were misusing funds on the other coast, which started the legislature down the process of, well, these maybe aren't the best thing because people are putting concerts on
with money, right? So that's not the intent of a CRA. But calmer waters prevailed. And I think now that we have time to actually go through it, see the study, to NY's point, make sure the procedure and the process is is right. When we get something that we can ultimately vote on, we know we're
confident that we followed all the rules and we know where that money is going to go and what we could potentially do with other funds to be allocated somewhere else because of these funds that could be coming in and have the projections of what are we really looking at as far as money coming in and what how does that mean with, you know, keeping our infrastructure, which is the most
important part, right? And that's where the infrastructure for the island starts is on the downtown zoning district. That's where it all comes in. That's where the water, that's where the electric, that's where everything comes in. So that is kind of the benefit of the entire island to be able to be able to make sure that's maintained. So I'm
glad we're at this point. I'm looking forward to hopefully getting to where we can have something tangible to discuss and and and give direction to staff to be able to say bring this back so we can vote on it, get it to the BOCC and then all of us can start advocating to the county level to say this this is what we
needed. This is why we need it. Here's what we're going to do with it and here's how you're going to benefit. We're going to benefit. You know, it's not just about the town of Fort Myers Beach. Olively County comes down here to use this island. So, as long as everybody's benefiting, I think we'll have a better a better argument to be able to get them to buy in. So, keep up
the good work and thank you. >> Hopefully soon we'll be able to >> we'll be able to discuss a little more detail. >> Thank you, sir. >> Will, anything else you want to add to it? >> Thank you, Mr. Mayor. That's exactly why we wanted to bring this forward first time is to get some direction, some guidance from the council. let us go. We
can refine, make those uh those adjustments and then uh get some get some stuff to Nancy to review and and come back uh for another shot in the near future. >> Perfect. >> Perfect. Yeah. Thanks, Frankie. If >> I make just one more comment, none of this would be possible without Jason
Freeman. Um he's been the person making sure that we have a e-com in line, that we have those discussions, that we have those weekly talks. So, it's easy for me to sit up here and talk about my little dream and what I put together, but it doesn't come to fruition without
his hard work. So, he should be recognized. >> Oh, yeah. For all of >> the original Swiss Army knife. >> There you go. >> Yeah. >> Our own Marco Rubio. >> Thank you. >> All right. Thanks. All right. Our last is agenda management.
U John, you have anything you want to add to agenda management? John. Um, >> I said, "Sorry, you stood John." I'm ready to tell. >> Uh, I'm I brought it up during council that we have an open position at the
Anchorage. I'd like to see that brought forward. >> That's it for me though. Thank you. >> Okay, >> Rebecca. >> Um, short-term short term rentals. >> Mhm. >> And how we are um using the new
technology. You had mentioned something mayor about technology where we can see who's signed up, who's following the rules, uh how we can increase our revenue stream by that. This um just a maybe a discussion, a demo, >> maybe if that's a good idea. Maybe a
presentation at an MMP meeting from our consultant that or from our firm that we've hired so they can explain better probably than we can of how it works so that the the public can see >> when we'll start to benefit from that. M >> cuz I think once you see how it works
and why it works, I think you'll understand why the staff went down the road of making >> recommending it. Yeah. >> Thank you. That's all I have. >> Scott, um I've got nothing for agenda management, but uh just want to let you guys know that we had our final charter
review committee meeting yesterday and uh Mr. Dunlap's going to present to us at our next meeting and we actually have five items that um are they they are going to recommend for our charter change. >> Nothing major major but um he'll be
presenting that at our next meeting. So >> on the 20th >> on the 20th. Yes. >> Those were great meetings too. Yeah, they were it was and you know it was our last meeting yesterday and it took 20 minutes because of all the >> of all the previous work they've done. I
mean they went through that charter sentence by sentence. >> Yeah. So >> I think if you want to see your community at work >> watching those uh charter review was >> they did a fantastic job. So >> your your role as well Scott. >> Oh, thank you. >> That was a pleasure. It was great team
to work with. But um as far as um management and planning, I don't have anything additional. >> Okay. Go ahead, John. >> Nothing on management planning calendar. >> I was just ready to jump and let you know. I wasn't ready to I didn't have any. >> All right. Yeah. I don't have anything
additional to add that one of the item I see is looks like it's finally coming up on some discussion next month. >> All right. There's nothing else. John, >> mayor. Yep. Hold on. >> There there is one thing. Um,
as you recall, um, this past week you appointed, um, Ed Skunover to, um, the local planning agency to the LPA. Um, and as a result, there was a vacancy now created. Um, well, he resigned basically
yesterday because he did serve on other committees and, um, we had not presented a waiver to allow him to serve on multiple committees. Um so yesterday the town clerk she did receive a letter of resignation from him from the other two
committees which are >> um Anchorage Advisory and Borab and then the charter commission. >> So what we would ask is that you go ahead and allow the town clerk to advertise those vacancies and um there's no prohibition uh to Mr. Skunover to
apply to reapplying. However, um because of his participation on multiple committees and in the view of the lack of the waiver, um we feel this is the best course of action and and he agreed to do it. >> I don't think we need to replace him on charter review. We have two alternates
already. So, I think that's >> charter review. Um >> we're probably not going to have another another meeting. Exactly. I don't think we need >> So, charter review would be terminated officially on um April the 20th. >> Okay. Um, however, just for the record, he went ahead and just
>> Okay, we don't need to replace him because we already have >> No, no, no, no. Because that committee, >> but that that will be terminated completely >> on the 20th. >> Okay. Thank you. >> So, if we could just have that direction. >> Yeah. So, directed I don't Anybody have
any objection to it? None. >> Will. >> Yeah. Mr. Mayor, if I can just I have a clarification for the agenda. So May 7th, MNP will be it. It says leadership forum strategic planning. It's really just an MNP uh for the council um to uh
um participate in the strategic planning. Tracy, you want to let them know exactly what? >> Wow, that was my microphone. I did that. Go ahead. who can use wheels. That's crazy. Um, so yes, during our regular M&P meeting on May 7th, we will besides
the bike um conversation, which will go first, we will venture into a strategic planning session, um, I anticipate it, well, I guess depending on how long the bike conversation goes, potentially ending around 1 p.m. >> Any questions about that strategic
planning session? >> Nope. >> Look forward to it. >> Okay. Thank you. So they're both the same day. The normal MMP will be first followed by the the second M&P I guess would be called. >> I Yeah, I I guess so, right? >> Okay. >> Yeah, we won't have a separation to make
it a full day event. >> Okay. We won't have a separation or we will just roll >> meaning as it's in the agenda management, it says 12:30 to 4:30. It won't won't be that >> normal. Normal M&P time. Okay. Not 12:30. >> Hopefully that's a good piece of news for you.
>> Sounds good. Okay. Must have been your magnetic electric personality that caused that interference. But I think we all need to be in cahoots as we uh adjourn this meeting. >> We are adjourned at 11:22.