all right good morning everyone today is Wednesday April 9th 202025 it is 9:03 start the town of Fort Myers's Beach Management Planning Session all town council members are present town attorney town uh clerk and town manager
if you'll please rise for the pledge of allegiance i aliance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for
all thank you we first item for discussion we have a presentation for wave mitigation wall elizabeth Fountain is here good morning good morning um for the record Elizabeth Fountain with uh JR Evans Engineering
i'm a professional civil engineer and also a certified flood plane manager been working in this area since 1999 so have a lot of history and background and experience we also um specialize in
coastal um engineering as well we are representing uh the civil engineer and coastal engineer for several projects on the beach such as outrigger Neptune um upcoming potential sandpiper so uh
been in the area a long time and have a good amount of experience so I I understand that um there is some concern about the Times Square area being able to redevelop that that part of the town
um in a way that helps activate um some of those ground level um activities and uses and one of the one of the potential solutions and I know that that property is in the the zone VE according to the
FEMA flood maps and that's a very restrictive zone as far as what's allowed um everything has to be elevated and breakaway walls and um not much can happen until it's above that base elevation or higher
um from what we we have experience in doing what we call wave mitigation walls and they are um not tall walls they're not six or eight foot high they're more like three to three and a half foot above the grade
and they actually cause a disruption in the wave action that comes from the from the Gulf of Mexico across the shoreline during a hurricane event and it causes enough disturbance to mitigate to uh drop those wave heights and energy down to a level that's not considered to be
zone um and with the implementation of that feature we've been able to modify the FEMA flood maps um it gets reviewed technically by FEMA and their staff uh the wall is designed to withstand the hundredyear forces during that event u
we've been successful with many projects um in doing this all through Florida on the east coast and uh the west coast and it allows the landward property on that landward of that wall to be designated
in a lesser risk zone so that helps to incorporate some flexibility about what can be done um for new buildings in that area so I have some examples to show you this is well this is
the overall map of it's a focus of Fort Myers Beach and the town square the time square area um and you can see the red zone is the be boundary zone the white lines represent the different levels of flood
zone coming across the the island so the higher the higher risk zones are definitely along the shoreline and then as it progresses inland um the elevations drop so the ve zone extends to the east side northeast side
of the boulevard and covers most of those properties along the the southwest side so if go to the next slide so this is um up in Clearwater Beach
it's at the Hyatt Resort and you can see that um I've pointed out arrows to what looks like just a a seating wall right but that is actually a wave dissipation wall it serves a function so it
actually we were able to do a flood flood map modification based on the implementation of that wall and then it allowed the the lower part of the Hyatt resort to be activated with commercial uses um as long as they were dry
properly dry floodproofed and it's integrated into the pedestrian um footprint active you know area for them to use as seating um it is doesn't have to be a straight wall it could be a curve linear wall that is very
aesthetically pleasing um so this works out very well go to the next slide how tall is that is that about three feet three feet and then how far does it go down it varies um some of these walls are can levered
um either concrete panels or sheet piles that are driven into the ground okay um and the the depth of that will depend on the forces that are coming to it for it to withstand and not not cause the
overturning or failure of that wall okay so but it usually has a concrete cap that will fit over top of it and you know that concrete cap can be finished in any any way um but the concrete is designed to
also be stable during those flood conditions and we we've actually done um a few projects on Binina Beach um for the condominiums that are on the north side of or the north tip of Hickory Boulevard before you make the turn to go
across Lever's Key and those there was already an existing berry concrete panel wall there it's been there since the 80s um but to address the the the concerns of those condominium properties from wave impacts
and from sand getting transported with every storm um and filling up their properties we are implementing a a cap extension of like three three feet um and that's currently under construction right now and there's a there's a couple
others who have done a smaller cap extension like in the past five years um and those actually had no problems during Hurricane Ian Milton or Helen they survived so I have I can have I have
pictures of those I can share this is a plan view of you know looking from bird's eye view looking down on Hyatt um and I point to where that location of the wave dissipation wall is
go to the next slide uh we also did the neighboring property to the north which is the the Windham Grand um that property it was only encumbered by the zone VE on the very northwest corner it was this used to be an open
parking lot and then the Windham Grand uh client bought the property and um for development and so we actually did a a similar wave mitigation wall in that northeast northwest corner and then they integrated it in with their hardscape so
with their they have a set of stairs there that come up to a elevated deck and the wall is behind that deck so nobody sees it it's just but it's there and it serves a function um and we were able to successfully modify the FEMA
maps to get that property fully in an Azone um it also saved them half a million dollars on construction um so it's it was a really significant uh savings to them next slide this is a current I did a current
street view of the Hyatt wall so you can see that it's still there um and people are actively using it as a seating area next slide and then this is this is the clear water view clear water um the um Windham
Grand so that wall is in behind those set of stairs but it's it's uh it's covered up so you don't even know it's there so I I present this to you as an opportunity maybe to to look at doing something similar for the Times Square
area and maybe even the adjacent um public parks to help mitigate wave action um I understand that there's a restroom facility being designed for the county park and um that there's a way to
get that property in an a zone and there may be a way to help have those restrooms uh not be elevated that they could be dry floodp proof and be more accessible to the public um so I'm here to answer any questions
you know I walked that entire wall after Hurricane Milton and Yeah I was I was surprised to see how well it really did hold up other than maybe a couple of caps the concrete caps were missing yeah yeah but one thing that really stood out was the stage at the main park there
that without that wall that would have been gone yes for sure that would have been gone and they were working on it and they were just doing the work of what the water damage caused it wasn't structural right so it was pretty impressive to see and I did notice that wall was hidden there but I was looking
for it okay yep it is it is hidden there um and I can if you need I can provide the actual our construction plans for it so you can see what it you know the structure of it what it looks like um but I think it's a it's a good opportunity and we're we're actually
doing this for the outrigger property right now um doing a similar type of structure to help get them get that property in a more favorable designation um because it'll help with
um activating some of those public benefit uses that they want to do there you know I've been talking about this for probably two years now had you since Ian y and to your point how it would have changed the the flood zone and we could have built back Times Square at
grade level had this been in place beforehand yes but we still can if we you still can yes yeah you still can you know ideally I'd love to see this all the way down the entire island right it would provide walkway and so we did the ramps as long as as long
as when you look from the shoreline you know perpendicular you know to the property as long as that wall you can have the two ends overlap and have a have like a path in the middle between them as long as it looks like a solid wall as far as if you were a wave coming through then
it's gonna it'll it'll suffice as as if it were one continuous wall so we designed it like that how high do you think we'd need that wall in time square three three and a half feet at the most wow just to to mitigate that wave action
and it's really just disturbing um I think it's the same thing that that the ocean floor does as the waves come up on the on the beach you know as the elevation of the beach rises those waves start to to break um so this just you
know during those higher surge events this will just further diminish that wave action seaw wall the uh one thing I noticed also too that you didn't touch on was on the other side of it which would be the opposite of the seawward side was the
looked like a 12 or 15 foot path that was walkable bikable and the amount of people that were using that to traverse being a looking at this you grand visions of if you could have it down the entire island this eliminates a lot of the issues that we're talking about when it comes to bikes and traffic and
getting people from one end of the island to this other it's similar to what they did of you know Fort Lauderdale they have that there's a a portion of A1A I think that's continuous with a wall and a walking path and it's the same concept that's protecting that public infrastructure
and I know I know when we talked to Elizabeth um there's resilient resiliency grants for this that can help with implementation and you know because I mean I'm I'm envisioning it all the
way from Lynhell Park down or even further i mean anybody could get involved with it that wanted to save their property think TDC funding would be available for it yep exactly so combination of
wherever else we could get you know it's a design that's sustainable you know a lot of times some of the properties I think have some older walls you know perimeter walls but they're they're probably more traditional seaw wall construction and not as stable under
those conditions as this this feature would be well it can also be a part of a public benefit when a developer wants to develop something into that section well and it's not just the wall and the concrete if you haven't had a chance to go and look at it I I recommend you do because it's you you have lights built into it
you know the amber lights that are walk path lights as well as drinking fountains and water stations along the way and it was really thought out thought out really well and it you don't even know it's an armoring wall you just you just think it's a boardwalk right but it's actually serving a
functionality yes sir purpose I guess not functionality it's a it's serves a big purpose too many donuts or not enough vice Mayor a couple quick questions um thanks for being here the uh just for definitional
purposes what's the formal difference between a seaw wall and a wave wall that you're describing here so this this wave wall is specifically designed to stay in place um during those anticipated wave forces
during the hundredyear event and it's based on the FEMA the latest and you know most recent FEMA modeling um and it accounts for scour so we when we do these designs we anticipate there may be some scour in front of on the seawward side of the wall so we we
estimate what that scour is and then we also look at the landward side um to see what conditions may occur if you just ran if you ran into somebody on the street and you're telling what you do how would you explain the difference between this and a seaw wall the purpose of this wall is
to successfully mitigate wave action and reduce the potential impacts flood damage impacts to structures on the landward side of it seaw walls are not typically designed they're designed for stability
and to withstand maybe the hydrostatic forces of the water rising not not necessarily wave action it's a different it's a more dynamic force thank you uh the this concept of a boardwalk related to this wave wall is extremely
intriguing i I assume you're aware of our transportation uh challenges how how interconnected are the is the boardwalk with the wave wall in other words can you have one without the other or are they are they inextricably linked
um the board you know the boardwalks aren't always part of the project it's really based on the the desires and the intent of the of the client um so it could be it could be separate um but as
we're as we're selling this to our various constituents uh obviously pitching them together would be great but they're not necessarily they're not necessarily related just potential they're not dependent on each other they're not dependent upon each other just a bonus
opportunity yes sir and and lastly and you could comment on this if you want i'm just curious you mentioned the outrigger is what you're doing at the outrigger will that potentially give them additional freedoms to have potentially a tiki bar in the back is that one of
the potential benefits potential and the and the public and the restrooms you know more being at ground level ground level as long as they're floodproofed dry flood dry flood proof okay great and like in Time Square if it was there I mean we wouldn't have to go
up 18 feet for restrooms they could be at grade level yes yeah grade level and that type of thing so it would change the whole dynamics there and the rebuilds right for the cost of construction and I would much less it would likely
lower the base elevation probably by a foot um as well because what you because the the base elevation is based always based on the top of that wave you know wave height so if you're able to lower the wave heights usually
that translates into a a at least a foot lower BFE on the landward side i would think too Mr mayor uh with respect to the TDC the synergies between Lynhal Park Time Square the new pier uh that would create a pretty strong argument
for TDC funding I would think and obviously I'd love to I'm with everybody else i'd love to see it expanded beyond that but yeah very intriguing concept thank Thank you Mayor frankie just reminding we're we're going to incorporate this into the Newton Park as well this this type of thing
it would allow us when we designed that project would allow us to instead of having a portable restroom area and we had built that in already already to have a some kind of a barrier um to allow us to have dry wet restrooms at ground level at Newton uh with the
existing seaw wall forward and then the mitigating wall behind it so that was already built into our design is there the cost rough what is there a linear foot type cost that you assign to it i've seen the cost range
from um and a lot goes into it because it depends on how you know as far as mobilization how easy it is to access the the construction property it's wide open there it is wide open right now you don't have you can access it from any direction no resistance
um the range of like probably like five to 750 a linear foot 500 to 750 a linear foot depending dollars or $100,000 no five 500 to 750 per linear foot of wall
dollars $500 $500 that range and I'm guessing I think on on Bonita Beach the one we're doing for Bonita Beach Club it's a it's a the three-foot cap edition and it's like 300 300 feet
long um and I think the cost is around 240,000 just given your knowledge of Times Square given there's private ownership on some of those properties would there could they there would be benefit to them as well there could potentially be a public private partnership where they
would share in those costs yes and I and I was originally thinking maybe there could be something like you know what you see at the Hyatt in that part of Boulevard that's just dedicated to pedestrian activity um I know it's kind of more of in the middle of Time
Square but that would that would probably be an easy place to do that and it could it could maneuver around um and get closer to the shoreline i just know we have there's some of those properties that are on the seawward side
of that it may be more difficult um but I don't know what's planned for those so so what are the next steps in this i mean how would we um go about getting all this information
out maybe hold some public meetings for businesses that might be interested we you know how do we get involved what are would be our next steps with TDC and and Lee County i mean how does that all come together
um we could I mean we're prepared to kind of do a a deeper dive and and actually go into some concepts um maybe pick an area that's for a focus and then develop a actually run the you know run the coastal model
and actually determine what those parameters are for the design then maybe um provide some you know provide a a concept or rendering it what if I told you we already have that okay grand Resorts already did all that and
they've provided all their documentation to the town okay so everything that you're talking about has already been now maybe needs to be updated because that was you know a decade ago almost now so but it has a lot of that modeling in there a starting point for sure but it would be something that you could at least look at yep i don't know how you
could do that i believe you guys should have it if you don't we do what is a construction time frame let's say this was in a perfect world we were going to do the Times Square area what would what would the construction time be for something like that can you apply
that to a linear foot type of thing or is it too difficult but how long did it take to construct the one in Clear Water that was a very short one that the well the one not the the Hyatt but the Windom
um I think they had it built in 30 days wow yeah but you've got D permit and you've got to get with FEMA how how long does that process take it's got to be like a year at least right yeah so we do have to go through FEMA to actually modify the map and the process for this
um is you may be familiar with it's a a letter of map revision or a lmer they do have what's called a CLR which is a COMR which is a conditional letter of map revision that's based on a proposed project so I would you know I
would recommend that we that if it's pursued that a CLR be facilitated to get FEMA's acceptance of the proposed changes and then depending on where the where this wall is in relationship to the CCCL
boundary we may or may not have to go to D um most likely we will I think based on the map um so there's there's a AP there's the CCCL permit you would need the local obviously the local construction permit uh once the wall is
built and we get as built certified information we go back to FEMA and formalize the letter of map revision there we tell them it's been built here's the asbuilt data it's consistent with what we originally proposed and then that's when we physically change
the map so that you know the clo is is usually like a sixmonth time period and then the asbuilt lmer you know doing the clo should help streamline the asbuilt lmer when it's when it's constructed um I recommend doing that
there are some some clients who have elected just to build the wall and then come in with the belt lmer but then the belt lmer takes a little longer because it's first schema is first time for seeing it you know so they usually have more questions so what we're doing on outrigger is a commer and we're just about finished with that process we're
in the final final review stage right now um and so all in all from clo depending on construction time to get the aselmer it's probably close to a
year that includes construction you just think about the some of the benefit the smaller benefits just the amount of pools that had that had to have been cleaned out you know at the resorts and the private houses over the last five and a continued you know rest
for that happening just to get all the the beach businesses involved you know Pink Shell Best Western Margaritavville just to where they have knowledge and consideration for
this it could be huge Yeah quiet over there well a lot of my questions got answered the cost was a key one with me um I'm a visual person i'd like to see that Bita Beach stuff if you could send that sure um also I guess um maybe I'm a dreamer but I would hope
that there would be federal and state money that would be available for some sort of I mean they we're doing mitigation now at least on a state level I think um so hopefully that would be maybe an avenue source uh for revenue and also I would think it would help
with insurance as well for those businesses and and maybe and just to throw something out there we already have an active D construction permit on our beach okay so that could easily be adapted and amended to accommodate such an once that's open
and already evaluated all the dirty work is done right and it's just uh getting the config back into it to do the construction so we're kind of two steps ahead in that process already the one in Bonita are they getting any
kind of grant funding the the goal is to um we we have a pending grant um it's based on the it's the hurricane reimbursement shoreline um shoreline uh I think it's reinforcement grant but it's it's a
reimbursement to private property owners up to half of the cost or a maximum of $150,000 so really um but we have to we have to show completion of the project so we've submitted the the application it's pending once we have completion
information we can file that officially and they can process it we just we just spent roughly $50 million uh in federal state county local tax dollars to renourish our beaches does a does a a
newly renourished beach particularly at the intensity in which we've renourished our beaches does that affect the placement of of the wave wall it would it would only assist um with additional mitigation so your your beach
nourishment may help with that initial you know first line of defense but does it impact where you put the wall or is that is that okay well the one in Clear Water seemed to from what I noticed was mostly behind the dunes yes so the vegetation in the dunes were in front of the wall yes and this was behind it i
think is kind of what you're getting at i'm just curious if it impacted where you put the wall yes I think we would need to make sure we keep it you know we have that coastal construction setback line boundary that we need to pay attention to and so we've been making sure we we stay land of that line so
that we're not impacting your EC zoning district and we're not causing concern with the state you know personally I feel that this is probably one of the most important things we could do for this island um in
the buildback and you know whatever steps we have to do to get moving on it and get all of our costs and ducks in a row and you know people involved I think you know we charge ahead and and I I'm assuming we
can't do that from this meeting that it has to be brought up at a council meeting is that correct that is correct so if we could get it on the agenda for our next council meeting um to walk through this so that
everybody knows and we can get some more insights between now and then i I mean to me this is if we can get the funding if we can figure out how to make this work if we can get people involved this is just a no-brainer i think I I agree you only need another
person to agree i agree it should be discuss it but I I I'd like to look at things globally i mean if we could look at an islandwide solution you can always pair it down but look at an islandwide solution I think that would do
it would do an immense amount of help in the real estate market as well exactly as far as giving that a good push um and I don't know has there ever been an island that has done it the entire length of the island no and I am a big proponent of that vis vision
um because I I think that's the the best way to look at things well obviously our biggest challenge would be getting buy in i don't think the businesses would be such a such a challenge obviously as we found out with the beach nourishment um but when they got hit with the second and third storms they we saw that number
go up fairly quickly if I'm not mistaken as far as those that wanted to participate in the in the beach reourishment project I think this would would be a great value to some of the people that maybe are considering not wanting to do things because of the fear of the town but protecting their asset
is a is a big change especially if there's grant funding available to support half of it as an owner so I don't I would like to see a and we can always bring it down right but start start big i love that love that and Mr mayor if I could you may you may be
envisioning this when you say it but just just for your benefit if you if you if you begin to explore that for the town which I think is a great idea would you also make sure you explore it in conjunction with a transportation corridor of some kind as well because we'd like to see that as part of the
wall not I mean there may be some folks who don't want that but we'll at least let's have it to look at so we can get a sense so people can get a sense because we have severe congestion issues particularly on the north end of the island and if that can help solve that problem or help solve that
problem that would be great okay was that was that what you were envisioning yeah I would i mean I think that solves Moby Mat issues that solves ADA compliance issues that solves bike issues walkability you know right now we're dealing with people don't feel safe necessarily i was riding their bike on a sterile boulevard right anybody that's ridden a bike on there
understands that argument but this potentially I mean again if you haven't anyone listening if you haven't had a chance to go to Clear Water Beach to look at it it's pretty impressive and you know people think a long straight seaw wall and this is not anything like that and you know I thought is there going to be steps involved is there it's it's very flowing it's it was very
impressive on how you just the transition from the beach to the hard packed or the hard path bike path was was pretty impressive so I would encourage anybody I mean you've got a a real world example you can go look at that's fairly close by yes now that we're kind of coming out of season you
can maybe get around you can get to Clear Water in less than 17 hours but check it out yes and even the ones on Bonita those condominiums on Bonita Beach on Hickory Boulevard um we initially did um uh Dolphin Way and
Seascape we did the initial intent was to help with our flood insurance at that time because going from a Va they would save like $50,000 a building it was pretty significant um so you'll see that if you go down if you walk down there
you'll that those portions of the wall cap extensions um and those those all survive but it's just to cover the building footprints basically but the bene one is for the whole entire property um because they felt it was more important to protect the property
just one one quick question about your company is this is it just you or are there thousands of people behind you what tell us the scope of your capacity to do something like this sure uh so JR Evans Engineering We uh opened up in uh
August of 2010 uh Josh Evans is our company president i'm also a co-owner and we have two uh three other owners we are uh a firm that's we have civil engineers certified certified flood plane managers we have a department that's focused on land
development engineering and then my department's focused on flood plane management coastal engineering storm water design all water all types of surface water projects um I have a team of 10 individuals
uh comprised of professional engineers coastal certified coastal engineers um hydraulic and hydraologic engineers and designers um so they all handle their own you know they have multitude of projects they handle um so we this is
our this is what we do every day is this a is this a niche business or are there firms that do exactly what you do i would I would think this is a a niche um I believe that our closest um firm that's that does what we do is
you're probably familiar with coastal engineering they do a lot of your your beach nourishment projects and design um but we are I think we are more heavily involved with this type of project where it's looking at
infrastructure and looking for opportunities to mitigate damage um I wholeheartedly believe that doing the dune restoration is is like the number one thing that every coastal community should look at first and not
only doing the sand but also the vegetation because that vegetation will will help hold in the sand um but then this is just we we all know that those waves will knock down the sand and erode it um so that's why there's a need to do
the nourishment so if you have something more structural as a second line of defense it's this may sound like a dumb question but does the wave wall obviously it protects everything on the other side of the wall or helps protect
does it do anything just because of the wave action it mitigation does it would it help save any of the beach sand that we've just pumped onto the island or it will pre it will prevent so it you know it basically slows down that water you
can imagine if a stream where if you know you have a a stream with a lot of flow it has to make a really sharp turn it will deposit sand or deposit sediment in the bank of that turn because it's slowing down the water um same principle
with this wall it's going to kind of disrupt the wave from continuing as fast and it'll actually it should deposit the material on the side yeah very good it would I would think it would help
with the scouring too which is what we noticed after Ian you know the water going out caused as much damage as the water coming in yes and this would help with that yes and we've actually for outrigger the design includes
um what we call like a splash pad it's a concrete pad you know that's it'll be below you it'll be covered with sand or whatever material the client wants to put on top but it's it's there as a reinforcement around the wall along the
on the landward side to help reduce the potential for scour when is construction of the outrigger wall set to begin in other words can we go look at it no we we're in the very we're we're we're in the CLR review i think probably we'll have that CLR
within the next 30 to 60 days uh we're starting the permit process with D for because it's it is seawword of the CCCL boundary um and then we'll be coming in with the local permit for for the construction so it could be a little
while well when you come back with with some more information can you also bring back funding sources that you see as far as grants sure maybe that we haven't thought of obviously you're you said you're designing one for outrigger so
you kind of got an idea you know if this gets to fruition where it can be done the entire length of the island cohesiveness is obviously important yes but it sounds like you guys are well verssed in being able to tie into things to make it look like it's either not supposed to be there or uh you have to
add on yeah it's not so like obstructive I guess is the word yeah just a big square straight wall is probably not going to be very visually appealing exactly okay i'm sorry one more question since you're the only item on the agenda today we got a little time
i uh I'm curious if the outrigger the uh obviously it protects we've just discussed protecting the new reourishment stand and obviously we've talked about the other side of the wall protecting the outrigger but it would it could it also have a potential benefit
to the neighbors across the street from the outrigger absolutely so when we run the model analysis we run the line of study or they call it a transact line um and it'll actually show the wave heights decreasing as the waves as the water
continues across the inland properties and adjacent properties and so this would be this would be a benefit not only to the outrigger but to this to to the neighborhood behind the out yes and because we've we've had to you know answer the question on these types of walls even for single family properties where we've done them on you know
they're still coastal oh but they're maybe they're like Sarasota Bay or Tampa Bay we've done these for single family properties um and we've had to answer the question from the local authorities please make sure you know please demonstrate you're not going to cause
increased flood risk to the neighbors and we do that by running a a line of study through the coastal analysis that kind of cuts even at an angle if there's a like an angled wave attack to the wall we're actually showing that the wave
heights are are lower on the adjacent property when you compare pre versus post project conditions so even if you know typically we'll model the wave coming straight on but sometimes we have to look at even angled
attacks and to me it just in my brain it's no different than a house the house is the first thing it hits right on the Gulf and then it gets a little bit less as it comes inland right i just think of hibiscus if this wall would have been on habiscus you know most of those houses
probably would still be there today because there was nothing stopping that too yeah from coming straight down the straight down the pipeline anything else John plumber is going to be my next on air name when I get back into country radio
homer Homer we did this we did this for a house in Marco Island on Kazambus Court and the wall was finished right before I think it was Hurricane
Helen and uh and it it I have video of it and it was it survived and so now they're they're actually build they're moving forward with building the house behind it so any questions any any other questions so
are you available on April 21st to come and we can do this again and have it for the public and yeah is that enough time i think so um yeah I'll look at the or in May the first I was going to say we're going to have the FDOT presentation on the
21st for the bridge 10 best pass bridge how about we leave it up to you and staff yeah you let us know as soon as you can i mean if it's a short window between now and the next meeting but yeah okay if May works you're more prepared you are May would
be probably be better but I'll let I'll let Andy know great yes great great thank you for your time thank you so much appreciate the opportunity elizabeth do you have a card you can leave all right our next item is the fiscal year 2526 budget hearing dates
is this you Amy it's kind of myself and Joe combined here a little bit but um we're just trying to set the schedule so we can let you figure out what's going on in September we now have the school board
meeting dates and the Lee County Board of County Commissioners dates um so we're just looking for some dates to set our September budget hearing meetings do you have any suggestions um
what dates do you bring so I have a conflict i unfortunately um I I thought Labor Day was the 8th and it's the 1st so I have a trip planned i'm going to be out of the country till probably
the the 9th okay i haven't bought my ticket yet but that's pretty I'm looking at getting back on the 8th or 9th but to get back and give my full 100% of if if we could maybe do the first one on
the 11th or 12 10 the 10th or 11th i just I I don't want to be out of the country and miss the meeting it's it's too important sure um in the in the past we try and that would be fine the 11th um they don't have to be on a Monday
they can be that remember these meetings are in the evening um And we try not to leave we try and leave more time towards the end of the month so finance can get all their um paperwork completed and where it needs to be in time so we don't
want to have it like on the 30th i'm okay with the 11th 911 oh 12 so it gives you an extra day it's a Friday but they're in the evening so I would
rather And then you have to decide also your regular meetings are you going to hold them morning like at 9:00 a.m like normal and then come back in the evening the regular meeting later in the day and go into the evening oh yeah you're
doing the same days don't you you don't have to do them the same day but So how much time Joe do you need it at I want to maybe we work backwards how much time at the end of the month do you need to be able to to do what you need to do act like you be here Joe
short timer the deadline um for approving the budget is September 30th so as long as it's approved by September 30th the second hearing is by September 30th it should be fine and then the guidelines for the first hearing it can
be anytime between um September 3rd through September 18th that would be the time frame so if we did the 11th and the 25th would that work for everyone the only the only date that I can't do in the evening is the 25th okay so if we could work around that that would be great what about the
24th that would be fine september anybody have an issue with that 11th and 24th and those are the evening meetings and what would you like to do about your regular meetings this is going to be M&P right and then
would you like to hold an MMP in September also September is going to be pretty busy maybe not having an MMP that I was say historically we do not have the MMP in September i'm okay with that i agree agree john you okay with that
most definitely okay so if Labor Day is the first what are normal meetings then normally they would be like the 8th normally we we could move it to either the second or so either way you would be gone on the
second yeah he Why don't we do the Why don't we do them on the same Is it Are people opposed to doing them on the same day as the budget meeting i'm not I'm not I've got a swift meeting on the 11th but I can miss it so the regular meetings on the regular
meeting at on the same day town council the only thing that the only thing that scares me is potential projects like Monday was a marathon i mean you guys would I would assume you would probably have to have them in the morning right i would think to be Oh yeah you'd have them in the morning but I mean how how
long is the meeting going to go are we going to are we going to gave out at 5:00 and then gavvel back in at 5:05 i would hope with this much warning we can plan around that a little bit okay so then if we did them on the same day at 9:00 so September 11th and September
24th yeah I have no issues with that and then the evening meeting has to be held after 5:00 p.m so So that generally means 501 is that what you traditionally do if that's the time
you call for or 5:15 55 51 501 is typical okay so the 11th and the 24th so just to reiterate we'll have the meeting September 11th the regular meeting at
9:00 a.m the budget hearings at 5:01 p.m and September 24th the regular meeting at 9:00 a.m budget hearings at 50:01 p.m no MMP in September correct correct perfect thank you
so the meeting on the 22nd then is moved to the 25th or 24th 24th correct at 9 and 501 that's all I have for that item then what do you Well I have um a related um
issue and this would be um the setting of the maximum millage rate and so in the last few years that was done in June because we we needed to have it set by
August 4th and in the past um there it just didn't work out with um the town council meetings in August but this year um August 4th is actually a town council meeting date so it is possible to wait
as long as August 4th to set the maximum millage rate and just kind of to um remind you so in June is when we get the estimated taxable values july 1st is when we get the the
final taxable values so in the past we've been trying to base our maximum mill rate on an estimated number and then on July 1st we'd get the actual number and that's why we would we could then suddenly change it or back
down on the m maximum real date and there were you know comments um made last year that we really shouldn't have to go through that fire drill if we can help it and perhaps consider having a um setting the maximum military in the July
town council meeting if you so desire or you could wait there is no July council we have to have a special meeting right so so then right so that's up up to you if you want to avoid having to set it based on a maximum I mean on a estimated
value in June or wait until August to do it based on the actual taxable value let me ask you Joe and you've been in this position I think uh coming in for a new person what would you recommend would be easiest for Yeah well I mean it's easier
for everyone if we know the actual number we're working with right because then it's you're not speculating or trying to guess somehow so I I think that's the easiest thing the only So that would be August i would recommend the August 4th date because that's the date it's actually due but it's you're
just under pressure you have to make a decision that day there's no time to um postpone it uh but on the flip side since we will know it on know the actual information on July 1st and the budget is due to be presented to the town
council by July 15th you know in a formal document you could have it at least a couple weeks in advance to know what it it's going to be and then there's time to then consider you know
options between July 15th and August 4th i thought I heard you say that you had to have it set by August 1st did I mis here i'm sorry if I miss maybe I misspoke or didn't speak clearly it's August 4th is the deadline you have to
have it submitted yes okay so we wouldn't have to go through the two meetings of the we would have to do the tenative and then the actual military correct okay how do you feel about that Scott i'm fine with it
darren I would rather have it just one time one time yeah well yeah okay go ahead i concur john well what will people write about there'll be plenty to write about John we'll be
fine all right august 4th we August 4th military you got it and you by the 15th we should get the budget from finance yes that's um according to the town charter that's supposed to be delivered to you by July
15th it's not necessarily the final version obviously because there's hearings afterwards but that would be um that's like the foundational document got it okay Joe you'll base that budget off the current military
u well well I won't be here but I would presume so I mean that that's the the idea to show you what what it would be make sure they're clear right and then maybe there'll be options for you to consider you know as part of it but it would be based on the actual
millage right I kind of liked how you did it last year Joe where where you said hey if it's if it's here we'll have this much more in reserves if it's here we'll have this much more comparison so yes that's very helpful soever whomever whoever steps in behind you i'm still
not very happy you're leaving but still I'm sad still time Joe still time Joe still time Joe but I I would think if if we could if in your docu I understand you're trying to write down for the next
person what what your process is and I I think that was very helpful to us last year so I'll be sure that there there's notes and that people know that that's part of what the recommendation is so Joe as you're standing there obviously there's
a big variable not knowing what the county numbers are but since you're here and you've ingested a lot of information over the last few years uh what's your what's your what do you postulate are you optimistic you think we'll be able to stay where we're at are you
pessimistic what's your gut tell you off the record here of course public can turn everything yeah no I I'm honestly it's just it's a question mark in my mind because I I don't know
how much higher the taxable property value will go i mean I'm I'm I'm optimistic and hopeful based on what happened last year that we'll see a similar increase if if we see that then we we should be fine
um it's just I don't know how much and then actually raising the millage rate like each increment it doesn't I it generates obviously more revenue but it's not significant amounts of revenue so you would have to if we're significantly shorter need significantly
amount of of increased revenue for other things like capital projects you would probably have to raise it significantly uh but I don't you know obviously the goal is to try not to raise it at all and to see
what we can do within that like what the limits are but the things that are out there that I think are concerns you know we've been able to get by the last couple of years without really a capital improvement plan and budget because it
was all focused on recovery and just trying to restore repair rebuild what we already had lost through hurricane Ian and that was all being covered by insurance and um FEMA reimbursements so the funding for all of that came through
that but as we move forward and we're getting back more to you know there's more normaly involved you need to have a budget that can generate additional revenues for capital improvements and so far that's not been the case
these last couple years we've just been surviving you know operationally with the revenue coming in so but you know as a town picks up with more like parking revenues and other and more property tax revenues we might be in a position i
don't I don't know yet but maybe that would be enough to also then generate some additional revenue for capital improvements but that that would be my concern is you just need to make sure that you also have that and beach nourishment is a huge um expenditure that we've been fortunate to have so
many grants you know that have come our way but that's an ongoing expense and that has not been included um in the budget i mean we've had like carryover amounts that were set aside in previous years that was included in the
budget to continue funding but there's not been a new source of revenue to help fund it other than grants but there's always our share um and we don't have anything on reserve um to cover our share going forward at
least not a significant amount so I mean those are other concerns that need to be factored into the decision of um whether or not the military should be increased but I think if if it is increased you have to have specific reasons like what is this going to fund not not just
increase it because you you have to have the actual spending plan behind it to justify it makes sense do uh is is the is this potential for the state to forgive the loan is that a variable that could go
our way and be helpful or does it really impact your budget dynamic all that much no no that'd be absolutely helpful because I mean we already have the revenue replacement um grant so that takes care of 7 and a half million of it
but you know eventually we're going to have to repay the the total um I think is it the 11 I'm already forgetting the total amount 11.9 million so we eventually have to repay that so I I think so far the 7.5 million will
replace what we've used that along with some um interest revenue that's earned so we'll have the full amount to repay and so we'll we'll be okay that sense but if they forgive the loan then we would have that much um the 11.9
million that would become available for capital improvements for beach reourishment and all the things that the town needs to do so I think we're you know we're on on the cusp of needing to start doing that and we just have to be
able to generate the revenue to do that i think you're telling me I need to start pegging harder Joe that's what I'm hearing yeah what are you saying all of us i'm sorry cracking a joke okay
that is still the focus but just not this year oh it's not it's not it's not an option this year we've been told don't even ask down okay just curious really not just us tightening the strings everyone i mean there's we just found
out this four and a half billion dollar difference between the Senate and the House budget creating some waves well if we put up a mitigating now touche all right thanks Joe uh now we got
agenda management for 2025 anybody have anything to add change alter so when will um I see Terry Prasad's Times Square thing on here for May 19th
when will the arches come if it was approved yesterday in LPA when will that come um I believe it's the first May meeting and then the first June meeting correct and then will be the 2nd May 2nd
June okay that's the plan so far go over that again correct yes the arches will come back I I believe the first May regular town council meeting for their first hearing and then the
correct and then 55 55 and then their second reading would be on June 2nd and then Mr prasad's time square project is coming to the LPA on the 29th
of this month is tentatively scheduled now for the 19th of May for their first reading before you and then the June 16th for their final reading so So the LPA has two meetings this
month correct they have another one on the 29th i understand it's going to be long also you bringing your pajamas scott anything else no sir karen
Jim no nothing okay before we journ we got this letter that you guys got it's a letter to the TDC that would like permission to submit to Chairman Rain and to Vice Chair Johnson to present for tomorrow's meeting a request to get some
TDC funding uh help for the Fourth of July fireworks we just need consent to go ahead and allow me to sign the letter and have staff submit it to them today i'm in I'm in consent i am okay we'll
take care of that mr mayor may I add one more thing before we adjourn yes um on April 22nd at 1:30 p.m uh we are going to hold a sunshine training for all the advisory committee members it's open to any of the advisory committee members
you all are welcome to come to if you wish um okay it should be hour to two hours long maybe just to clarify is this something they they're mandated to do we highly encourage everybody to attend it
we're gonna we're hoping to make this a yearly a yearly event okay but when will that be 1:30 uh April 22nd at 1:30 p.m okay well the good thing is I'm assuming it's going to be recorded and people can then watch it it will be we'll broadcast
it just like we do every meeting we'll broadcast it and record it so those that can't make it can watch it at their convenience but make sure they watch it and also through the Florida League of Cities they usually put on webinar training that you can sign up for to do as
well okay with that move to adjurnn we've got a motion a second any anything else any further discussion all those in favor signify by saying I i we are journed