Good morning everyone. We're going to call this meeting to order. Today is Wednesday, December 3rd. It is 9:00 a.m. All council members are present, including town manager, deputy town manager, town clerk, and town attorney. of you please rise for the pledge of allegiance.
>> I pledge algiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all. >> I just realized this looks like the whole right hand side of a football
team. >> I know. All right. All right. We have two items, two presentations today. The first item is a presentation by Metro Forecasting Models LLC. Come on up, sir. Good morning.
>> No. >> Nope. You can always you can always go over to that one if you want. Push the button. >> Thought there's an on switch. >> Is there? >> How's that? Can you hear me now? >> There you go. All right. Very good. >> That's what I get for having engineering degree. I can turn a microphone on. It's a real pleasure to be here for with you
you all today. Today is not the end of our work for you, but sort of the culmination of a whole lot of boring math uh where we poured over a bunch of different data sets that are that are being pulled into this presentation. This is I think our third or fourth presentation to you guys so far and uh
I'm excited to present to you with the findings we have here. to remind you, Metro Forecasting is a specialty planning firm that only works for governments like yours. That way, you know, when we give a recommendation or suggestion, it's it's from all of our experience and for what we think is the
best for this town uh to succeed and to thrive. Of course, uh you're policy makers. I never want to supplant your role. Your role is to make the decisions. My role is to make suggestions uh based on my experience and so forth. My partner, Dr. Paul Van Busker invented the model that we use for our for our population and
commercial forecasting needs and anyway just real pleasure to be here. So let's start at the beginning. The beginning is what do we have here today right because we had we had prean I'm going to be talking a lot about before Ian but today what you have is about about 19 well
just under 1,200 single family homes. Now when I say today, please keep in mind that this place is a continuous evolving moving target. Uh even since I first met with you in April, we've pulled two other data sets into this and the data keep it changes faster than we can download it and and take a look at
it. So as of let's call this uh June or Julyish. This is what your your stats were. And it's important under to understand you've about 6700 housing units. And at first you might well yeah that sounds about right. And then you might go, "Wait a minute. Wait a minute. There's not enough people around here to live in 7,000 housing
units." And you're right. We'll be talking about there's a a a faction of Fort Myers Beach that isn't quite returned back to the island. But we'll get back to that when I when I talk about the different uh population types. Uh so you have at least as of this summer, you had about 1635 hotel rooms,
of which only 1484 were actually open. We know that because we actually called all the hotels and talked to them. So that we we had accurate data about what they have open, what they plan to have open, and what their future plans stretching into the next year or so. Uh you have about 290,000 square feet of
commercial space. And that is true, but it's also misleading. Uh for later on analysis, we pulled the hotels, which are normally commercial, right? Hotels aren't residential, they're commercial, but we pulled them out because especially in beach towns, the hotel component can greatly skew the data. And
we wanted to understand what's the commercial here for people to actually use, right? The people staying in the hotels, where can they go to eat and and the shops and those sorts of things. Um, and I'll begin juxtaposing that a little bit later as we talk about prean. So that's that's where you are sort of
today. And then the way we work is we look, okay, forever from now, what is your buildout potential? And so we actually did two different buildout analyses. One of them is essentially so there was still vacant land here when Ian hit, right? I've been coming to this beach for nearly 40 years. There's
always been vacant land. Of course, there's less and less each year it seems like. Um, but we did the buildback analysis. So, if it was a condo, it's building back as a condo. If it was a single family house, it's coming back now. Albeit it was a twobedroom bungalow that's coming back as a ninebedroom, you
know, single family home rental or not. Uh so things are definitely changing but but the the premise as we state kept mostly the same. The only time we varied a little bit is when you had time shares and I'm inserting a little bit of art into this. We don't think time shares
are really going to come back and because of and I just had a brain fog um the thing in Miami that fell down u Champlne Towers because of that we're wondering honestly wondering how how excited banks are going to be to lend to
uh condos right or lend to build a condominium versus hotels they tend to know how to take care of a commercial type property and maintain it and such. So, we think some of your time shares that have been washed away or destroyed might come back actually as hotels. Not saying that will happen. That's just sort of our gut instinct of how that
might evolve. With that said, we're also watching daily the newspaper articles that are flying around as far as land solutions and other land brokers that are listing properties. Uh I'm also a commercial broker. I'm not here to sell you anything, but I can't help but look at the at these listings and how prices
are changing and how the chess pieces are moving on the board because it all sort of adds up to to a future, right? Uh the intense buildout. Um we as a general nature, we try not to get scary. When you do certain buildout analysis, if you assume the maximum density in
every lot, it would be like New York City. There's no sense in in raising alarm because relax, Fort Myers Beach is never going to be New York City, right? No matter how dense people think it might come, it's still going to be sort of a um a small beach town with that
sort of feel. However, there are differences. Notice how we we add about 300 housing units depending on densities and that sort of thing. So, what what we're trying to measure with these buildouts is I'm sort of I'm looking at you and what's difficult or challenging of my job is it's not just you. I'm
looking three, four, five, six councils from now. What will their attitudes be? What will they want? And the truth is we really don't know. But we're really good at at looking at the data and and looking at at at at property types and trends. And we think that the in somewhere between the build back and
intents is probably where you're going to fall. With that said, I am the consultant. You're the policy makers. This is completely within your control to limit or or or uh or promote certain types of of land development that occurs on the island. when a when a developer comes to you um it's your job to think
sit back and think about well how is this going to impact us overall and what if I replicate that everywhere how would the town look and how would we feel about that again not here to tell you how you're going to feel just bringing that to your attention now if we go to the bottom of this toward the bottom of the slide so today I said you're at
290,000 I'm going to jump ahead to one of the slides so before Ian you had just over 500,000 square feet of commercial space so you lost an easy 200,000 and that even interstates because if the structure is still here, I'm still counting it, but again, we're like eating popcorn. We're going, we're
looking at all the commercial space that is getting ready to come back online. The windows have been replaced. They put the paint back up like uh the plaza with Mr. Tequila in it. That thing we think is very, very close to coming back online, been out of service for a few years. So, we still count that as even active. But on top of that, you've lost
200,000 uh square feet. But you have the potential to add almost 500,000 more from where you are today. Not saying you will, again, within your purview of what you approve or don't approve and how things get redeveloped or not redeveloped, right? The not picking on
anyone and I hate to get overly specific, but when you look at the churches, you know, I know one one church cut a deal and they're putting, I think, 12 homes behind the church to help the church rebuild their building, but how will some of these other churches evolve? I'm I'm really good at what I do and I have no idea. um it it's
really difficult to to ascertain how those will go. Um anyway, so this is not meant to scare you, but this is sort of your your future, probably the book ends of of how your future might look. Again, depending on what decisions you make and your and your successors into the future.
All right. Uh not to bore you with a bunch of definitions, but uh you either get definitions or words today. Sorry, I tried to bring some pictures in. I'll try to make it as interesting as possible, but let's talk about homestead versus non-homestead. So, we went back uh years uh to look at how your trends have been. And what's really interesting
is you're actually have been exceedingly consistent. About 24 to 25% of every housing unit is homesteaded. What that also means is that 75 to 76% of your homes are nonhomesteaded. And I think you all know what that means. Now, just because something is nonhomesteaded
doesn't mean that it's being used seasonally. It's my strong hunch from spending decades on this beach that probably 99% of them are not being rented to people living here year round, but I'm sure there's a few that are being rented to people living here year round and so forth.
>> Do you have any way of calculating that data of what is being used as a non transient short-term rental property that is non-h homesteaded? >> Uh, is there any way to >> So, the only thing close I can get to and I tried I tell you all the things that I did to try to bring you the very
best data. So, I contacted the uh I did a public records request with um um not the tax collector, but the uh the property. >> No, no, no. The voting uh the election supervisor
>> two months ago. I still don't have the answer. Apparently, it's very, very secret. But I wanted to know how many actual registered voters you had, not how many votes are cast. I don't care about Republicans, Democrats. I don't care about any of that stuff because we're tracking deep in your data. you have homesteaded units that you can't
live in right now, which means they're living somewhere else, probably nearby, right? But but if the property appraiser recognizes that it's not their fault that they're not living there, they can't the unit's not livable. But we're watching again, this stuff is changing by the day. And uh and so um we're
looking at these homestead versus non-h homestead and my feeling was as I looked at the data in the population, I was trying to align your your voters, right? Because you have so many homesteads. If you let's say let's say you had enough homesteaded units for say a thousand people, right? But you had 1500 voters.
Well, okay, that tells me that those fif those other 500 are living in non-homesteaded units, right? Because they must live on the island to qualify to be able to vote. But apparently there it exceeds the amount of homesteads we have. So that's the only way I can sort of back end of how many of these. But
which house is rented and which one isn't? That's very very difficult. Um, I will share with you and I'm not suggesting anything to you. I did some work for Holmes Beach, I don't know, five years ago or so. And they So, I know you guys, maybe you're aware or not, but your fire department uh
actually tracks all of the rentals. You're supposed to was $100 a year, 150 a year to register your unit. So, they would know where all the rentals are. Homes Beach actually registers every bedroom. So, they have a really strong database and they know how uh how their
seasonal population can fluctuate. And in fact, I borrowed some of that ideas when I was working on on predicting your yours. So, to answer your question directly, it's nearly impossible to tell exactly which housing unit is rented to a per permanent resident and which ones are used on a seasonal basis. The fire
station uh data might be a clue, right? But we all know that not everyone complies with rules and not everyone is probably registered their their housing unit um with the fire department. Uh so a suggestion maybe is to uh enhance that database and or also include the how
many bedrooms are in each unit too. With that said the property appraiser data does have the number of bedrooms and that's what we have been using to uh to calculate some of your future population. So sorry I couldn't answer your question directly. It's a it's an excellent question. It deserves an answer. It just the data is very very difficult to uncover. Okay. Homestead
versus non homestead. Homestead by definition, permanent residence, non-h homestead, highly likely to be seasonal and and and not permanent. But again, there's a small percent that I'm sure are in there. And this is important because we talk about then the the composition of your population. So, you
have three different main types. You have your permanent residents, right? And that we think is I'll show you some tables here in a minute, but it's just over 3,500. And let's be honest, that was probably maybe a month or two ago. So again, these things are changing so fast as new cos are being issued and people are moving back into buildings. I
think I saw two or three actual large condos that look like they're within days of opening back up again. Um those are going to change. Your population is going to change throughout that. Anyway, your your permanent residents, then you have your seasonals. And your seasonals vary from people that actually own units
and spend maybe five months a year here or something like that to people that uh own units and may only spend a month here and then they put in one of those rental programs. Uh, I used to have a a a place up on the north end of the beach and I was one of those. We stayed in the unit maybe two months of the year and
then rented it out to help cover some of the very high taxes and operating costs and all those sorts of things. So, we have permanent and seasonals. And again, the seasonals that has one of the biggest impacts on our on our day-to-day population. One of the things I can't or I'm not going to be talking about today
is your daytime population. If you want to get scary, you take the number of lease hand trips times some magic number, 25, 30 people, and you get to a very large scary number. We did not get into that type of data. We're actually talking about people that are staying on the beach, uh, spending the night and
using the services that the town offers. So, the third different kind of population here is our transients. Now, typically that would also be our sort of Airbnbs, but because I don't have good Airbnb data, we're talking about only hotels at this point in time. So you have your permit, your seasonals, and
your transients. And those make up the majority of your population that are staying here, spending the night, going to your restaurants, and and may or may not need certain town services. Um because of the way the population is is uh different the way the different
components work. There is a large latitude of your seasonal population during the year. I know you felt it. I know I' I've been here for a a New Year's Eve where I swear I couldn't see one square inch of beach all the way down the beach. There were so many people on the island. Uh we also know
that, you know, spring break the Easterish, that sort of time period, it's also peak peak peak season. There are a lot of people here. Uh we used great care in putting these numbers. Again, we don't want to scare anyone or put something up there that can't be um backed up. With that said, uh I don't
know every person that comes on off the on and off the island. Apologize for that. Uh but we tried very hard to be be accurate. So this uh somewhat boring graph. What what very interesting is the first couple years.
So the bottom to put the scale in those are one years. They're not fiveyear increments. your population is going to change dramatically over the next 24 months. Uh I'm going to say even between now and midseason, so fe February,
beginning of March with all the units we see coming online, we're going to see a huge difference even from last season. And you're going to see that jump again going into 27. And this isn't due to new construction. This is just the existing units coming back online. Uh and and you
know, how will they be used is a big question in our mind. So, we know there's many hundreds of housing units that have homestead exemptions that are still not living on the island. We can track that because of the way the property appraiser discounts the values. We're seeing condos that are 5600,000
being taxed at 100, 110, 120,000. Clearly, they're not taxing that for someone living there. And when we we actually then went drove by and then checked out some of these places, we know that no one's living in them. But how will that unit be treated once uh once the unit is livable again? Are they
going to return to the island? And sure, you know, they lived here for a reason. They they must love it. They already own they already own the unit or how many of them are going to go, you know, it's been three years. I'm now living in Asterero. I got new friends and neighbors. H, you know, it was such a hassle. I don't want to live through that again. So, I'm just going to stay
here. And then they maybe sell their unit or take it off Homestead and start renting that unit out. >> Dave. >> Yes. >> Over here. >> Hi, >> Rebecca. If I may interrupt quickly, you may get to this, but I'm wondering um
will you be able to show us what share of our residents are peak currently or transient or >> Right. I I didn't get% you can give us >> Yeah, but I'm glad you guys are sitting down because I've got some big numbers to roll that you easing into it. Well,
we're getting into it very quickly here. >> That's all I needed to >> say. Very quickly. So, here we go. And they only get bigger from this point on. So this is the the simplest form. So what I'm looking at here is basically you're just permanent residents. And so you I'm saying you have 4941
those are active housing units. You actually have as we said before closer to 6,800 but of those only 40 4941 are considered not damaged. And remember this is as of I think August. And I guarantee you since then I mean every five minutes something is changing on
the beach. Uh but then using the some very detailed demographic analysis. No, we didn't use one number. We're using 50 different numbers all over the island based on on census data that we could track back to 2020 and vacancy rates, household sizes. So So we think there's
about 3,500. Uh I don't know. I heard from someone that we think there's about 3,200 voters now. 3,300. Uh that may or may not be true. Again, >> that's close. >> I never got an answer to my public records request. Maybe maybe it's coming. But we think
that there's at least uh 12 to,300 people that are currently displaced, not living on the island, waiting for their units to be finished so they can either use them seasonally or or on a permanent basis. Uh and so that's why we look at the first three years there, 25, 26, 27.
Notice your population, your total population isn't changing because we're not really seeing a lot of new development. Yes, there's single family homes being completed, but it takes a whole lot of single family homes to equal, you know, one condo coming back online. So, uh, so we see about 1,300
people coming back, uh, over this next, uh, 6 to 8 months and then next year we see another 500 people and then we think you'll be back to where you were sort of, uh, pre-Ean in terms of your permanent population. Now, how will it change and grow from there? Well, part of that is again, we don't know how that
that um um the homestead versus non-h homestead is going to change. Part of me wants to say it's not likely to change because I looked at years and years and years data and it was fair. It didn't go back to the 90s, but it's fairly consistent at 24 to 25%. I hope you maintain that. I would like to even see that non or that homestead even grow as
a ratio, but it's hard to tell at this point in time. It's why it's important also to monitor this through time. So, we see your your population peaking out potentially at about 5,600. And if you look back, that was about your pop your permanent population back in 1990. Of course, in 1990, there weren't near the
number of condominiums there are today. You know, Pink Shell is famous for they had all those little villas and they tore them down and built hotels. We don't it's going to be very very difficult to get back to that 5600. But we see that as a potential through about 2040 or so. Okay. What's uh this table is not
additive. So last table you could go okay this plus this plus this equals this. This is not This is Think of this as we're at the ice cream store and we have some vanilla, chocolate, and strawberry. So, we have our non-h homesteaded units. So, you have 3,600. Now, that's not all of them. Those are the ones that are online and active, right? We because we actually know
there's about uh 5,500 or 6,000 of those uh units, but only about 3,600 of them online. You got another couple thousand coming online as they get repaired and so forth. So, um, if I, um, not to get overly like, you know, shoulders, feet, and toes or whatever, but our peak
season, right, is over here. And then either side of the peak season, there's our shoulders. And so, we're talking about the shoulder seasonal population. And what we've done there is we've taken your non-homesteaded units and we've just used the census demographics and adjusted the vacancy rate slightly to
approximate what your shoulder season is. So, this is I would say you have a shoulder season even now. It starts in the late November, early December and rolls through at least the end of January before that February surge starts kicking in. And then at March and April is our absolute, you know, peak peak season. And then as we head into uh
May and June and and pretty much by July that the shoulder season is over with. But today you have about 4,700. But look at that. Just in two short years, you're at 8700. That is a big swing. That's what I'm saying. you have some big and
big big changes over the next 24 months and maybe it won't work out this way, but I've been doing this a long time. I've been on this beach for decades. I am pretty sure this is what is going to be happening. So, if you feel this like, wow, there's a lot of people around, you won't be wrong. There are a lot of people that are going to be showing up.
Um, again, this is mostly from th those uh those uh damaged units that are coming back online from there. all of the future growth beyond about 2030. Uh we see that is is uh some of the approved projects that we think will be starting construction in 2829 and
probably come online around 2030. Uh then we jump from our shoulder population that we see varies from about 4,700 to about 10,000 over the foreseeable future. Then we have our peak season. So those are again these are not additive. the peak season says, "Okay, now we have our shoulder, which
we have, you know, not a majority, but a good good dose of our seasonal units that they're here. They're here. You know, the ones that come from up north, they're here for almost six months because they're not full-time residents, but but four or five months. Um, then we get into the peak where now it's not
just them, but they have the grandkids come in too, right? Because now now we're we're back filling." So, in order to do uh the se the peak seasonal population, I stole this idea from our work in Homes Beach. 5 years ago. And you may not like it, but I'm willing to share with you our entire methodology.
And what it was is we took the bedrooms because there's an accurate count of that in the data. We took all those bedrooms and we said, "Okay, we don't want to use scary numbers, but what if we assumed 1.25 and when I worked for Homes Beach, they had us use 1.5 persons per bedroom, which is not crazy. Our two-bedroom unit sometimes had six or
eight people in it. So, it's possible, but it wasn't the the norm or likely. So these numbers at at you know close to 9,000 peak season which we I think you're likely to see this coming season growing to to 15,000 that's with only
1.25 people per bedroom. So I think these are modest numbers even as as scary as they look. But if we then travel on down to 2040 you see we're looking at hitting on about 18,000 people. Then we look at our transients. Now again there's all different kinds of
party sizes. There's different kinds of parties. There's a retirees. is the college kids and so forth. But on average, we use two people per bedroom just to approximate what that population might be like. Not per bedroom, two bedrooms per or two people per unit, right? So it might be low, it might be
high, but it's a good approximation we feel. So you're at about 3,000 people now this this coming season. And these are documented hotel rooms that exist today. There is no guessing, well maybe they'll be online. These are the real ones. But as we march through time, notice again uh by 2027 that's gone. That's grown by another thousand. And
that's as these other hotel rooms and forgive me I can't remember the name but there's a a hotel across from Alani Kai that's actually owned by Alani Kai. I think that's going to come back online either this spring or maybe in in the fall. That's an example of existing hotel rooms that aren't quite back online yet that we expect to be and of
course adding to that transient population. So again remember this was the ice cream store different flavors and now we're going to start putting them putting them together. So on the first column with permanent population we said it's about 3,500 people. Then we have our our our shoulder population of
about you know 40 4,700 people. a transient. This is we we've backed off. We we have a I can't remember I think it was a 25% vacancy rate in the hotels because again peak se in in the shoulder season the hotels aren't exactly um burgly full and so if we add that up
across the board. So we think that uh perhaps even in the near future you might be seeing 10,000 people that feel that day-to-day feel in in the town of that level. And if we march all the way down to 2040 or even just go to to 2027 again two years from now with just the
existing things coming back online it jumps to 16,000 and then down to 19,000. Remember this is just the shoulder, right? This is a huge variation. So if you look at our permanent population in the second column that's 5600 in 2040 and you compare it against the total. So
your permanent population is only 25% of all of your uh the people you're going to feel on a day-to-day basis. Or set another way, the the the non-permanence are three times that of what your permanent residents are. Again, this is this is the the non crazy numbers. Now,
we're going to go into full full peak season when it takes three hours just to get back on the island. Uh one time on the 4th of July, I went to Publix off island because I was going to save time. It took me about six minutes to get to Publix and it took me I think two and a half hours to get back from from Publix.
Um, so that's when you have 20,000 people, 30,000 people on the island. So we think that potentially this peak season, this coming Easter, you might feel as much as 15,000 people on a day-to-day basis during your your peak peak season. But then just jump a couple
years down, just 2027. I mean, you can you can fully conceive of 2027. It's not, you know, decades away and we're looking at reaching, you know, 24,000 people. Uh, that's again, that's our our permanence plus our seasonals. And if we look to the bottom again, this is now
again this is this involves many councils from now and a lot of decisions about land development and such, but we think you're you're knocking on the door of 30,000. I've already read all kinds of stories, some people saying there's 50,000 during peak season on the beach. I can't back any of those numbers up. I I don't know. Um I don't know if I've
ever seen 30,000 people on the beach myself, but it's completely conceivable that that this could be happening. And I don't mean this as a canary in the coal mine. I'm warning you if you don't if you don't make things different, this is what's going to happen. I I think most of this is is kind of baked in because there's not that much vacant land and
not not that much unknown about what the future is of of the island. But I think it's imperative these numbers are should be used for your planning when you think about public works or how many employees do I need for this or that. Uh how will my parks be used? These are definitely I wouldn't we never want to plan for for
for peak peak season. I don't know if you're aware of this, but FDOT when they plan for road they they plan for the 200th highest hour, right? They don't want to design for the the one peak peak digs. We'd all go broke building roads. So they we don't want to the town can't possibly serve 30,000 people when
they're only here for, you know, 60 days a year. But certainly when we look at our our if I go back and look at the shoulder populations, you should be prepared to be able to handle 20,000 people for three, four, five months of the year. Um especially 2030 and beyond. That's what
I'm seeing through the numbers. There's an embarrassing amount of math behind all of this. Uh I can't tell you how many times I went to my lead guy, Victor, and I said, "Are you sure? I want to see the math again." And so these numbers, there's a lot of heart and analysis that went into them.
Uh so if we didn't have people, we wouldn't need things, right? Wouldn't need parks, schools, fire stations, all that. Well, commercial demand also comes from people. And uh even though we have those some of those scary numbers 20,000 say shoulder say 30,000 peak peak peak season unfortunately the peak can't
really support commercial. It needs it but but it can't support it. It's more of our shoulder and our permanence that are going to make the businesses that that can be viable that can maintain their business throughout the year. Um it's important to plan for a high
quality of life. And so I'll say something now and I'll point to a map later, but you might need some additional commercial land. When we looked at your your homesteads versus non-h homesteads, it's about mid island is where we found uh was the majority of your your uh your homestead unit owners.
And and it's not it's for fairly obvious most of your homesteaders are actually not on the beach or actually back on the single family homes. There are still a fair number of of condos that have homesteads too, but the vast majority appear to be actually on on the on the bay side. And so, uh, we might need to
provide, I'm just pulling this, 10, 20, 30,000 square feet or allow someone to build shops, you know, with a a barber, hairdresser, whatever things that that permanent type residents need because I just don't think a a barber near the Lanikai is gonna maybe necessarily have a whole lot of business. You know, people have other things in their mind
like yo taco or something like that. So as we now graph this, oops, sorry. So the the good and bad thing about the beach is the long and skinny. It makes it very hard to map and to show accurately. I need a huge map. But if you look at the black dots, just focus on those on the lefth hand map. That's
your existing commercial uses. Uh then if you look at the map on the right, you could also say the map on the right maybe closely also represents what it looked like pre-Ean. Notice how there's a lot more of those black dots, but they tend to focus up around um the Matanzas
bridge and and that the you know the south of the bridge, but on the northern part of the island, that's where the majority of of these commercial uses fall. Of course, there's a fair amount too down the road as well. Um and we're just saying in that mid part, see you sort of seen there's not a lot there. And you don't need a ton. I'm just
saying you might want to if someone said, "Hey, I'd like to build 20,000 square feet of strip." And I'm normally I hate strip, but strip has a they can't support a grocery store, so we can't build one of those, but there are uses that might be helpful to your residents down that way. So I would be open to that if someone if someone proposed that
um and in terms of quality of life. So a part of our project too is to analyze your commercial space and uh we were very very grateful and fortunate to be doing all the modeling for FDOT on the west coast of Florida. So we actually did manate carrier s Sarasota, Charlotte, uh Lee, Collier, and so we
have all the all this beach data. And so we decided to get up and look some some of the small smaller beach towns. And again, we wanted to do an apples to apples comparison. So when we're saying commercial, we've already pulled out all of the hotels because again, we wanted to look at really what are the goods and services that are really available to both residents and visitors. And you can
see that Fort Myers Beach prein had had 95 square feet and it varies 57 month. The average is about 90 square feet. uh a normal amount of space uh per capita for a population with a permanent population of say 5,000 people would be
about 10 square feet per capita. So you can see the influence of the shoulder and the seasonal population supporting all that all that space that ordinarily would nowhere there's no way you guys could support this as as a town of 5,000. But in some respects, that's a benefit that you have by living here as
permanent residents is because all the all these shoulder and seasonal people, we have uses here that other people don't have because they don't have the um the financial means to support those businesses on a day-to-day basis that the visitors uh support for us. Uh so that was just sort of giving you
uh an example um of where you stand against these other beach towns. We've then graphed. So again, today you're at about 300,000 square feet. We see you going to 500,000. Uh not overly rapidly, but but over time we think over the next
couple years as these other um businesses light back up again. That's also going to create a surge of employment. Um if I do a a back of the napkin sort of calculation, and I'm glad again you're sitting down. We believe over the next about two years, you're going to see besides whatever the town
needs, 450 to 500 more employees on the town to service these businesses that are about to reopen, restaurants and other service types things. And well, it's not your fault or problem necessarily. These people, they had a place to live and we can talk about the
illegalities or whatever of all those, you know, one-bedroom rental units underneath houses that weren't really permitted that are now gone. Uh uh I would lay it at your feet that it might be reasonable to promote some rental housing on on the island. Uh and I'm
saying market rate, but but rental housing uh when you take it off of the seasonal type seasonal type rents can go for three and 4,000 a week, right? But when you type an annual type thing, it then lowers the profit potential and actually makes the rent more affordable for our our workers and employees that
we want to live on the island to have a higher quality life and to attract highquality talent that might otherwise be nearly impossible because well, I don't want to spend an hour and a half driving to and from work on the beach when I can just work in the city of Fort Meyers and and make the same amount of money but but spend uh two hours less a
day just on my commuting. I see that as a real potential for you guys uh in the next couple years as becoming a an exacerbating problem where maybe restaurants can't open because they can't hire people because they don't have housing that's adequate. Again, I'm not talking about necessarily affordable housing. I'm just saying rental housing.
When you have a house that or a unit you can buy, those are almost always going to be leveraged for the maximum return on investment, which is great for the investor, uh but but doesn't necessarily work in the town's favor. I'm not anti-investment, but but I think if you just had a small component of of u
rental housing here for your employees, it would go a long way towards having a stable economy and again allowing the town to attract talent too for for its various roles it's trying to fill over time. >> Dave, I'd like to Rebecca again, I'd like to make a comment. So, we talked at the council meeting the other day
looking at the comp plan about accessory >> uh >> dwelling units. >> Yeah. ADUs. Would that help support it if we promoted the ADUs? So, someone maybe can help >> um get back some of their money from rebuilding when they couldn't afford it
and also maybe provide housing for people who are working on the beach. So, it's a little bit of income for the resident >> and it's a housing opportunity for the workers, >> right? If done appropriately and and legally, sure. Uh what you want to make sure of though, if you're trying to
answer this problem, is that can't be Airbnb. There must be some sort of and I don't mean that you know some toothless regulation. I mean something that actually code enforcement making sure that someone is living there 365 and not oh the Joneses and then the farmers and then the uh the bills or whatever here. You know it's it's not turning over
every week. That's that does not help your situation at all. And people will be very tempted to take something that cute, right? I'm living in my house and now I can put a little ADU behind me and I can start running that out for Airbnb. That would not help solve the problem. But yeah, that that's one solution. That's something we should look into putting in our codes perhaps.
>> So my former property manager um lived on uh was it Santos up here? Right. Right. Sort of behind Yo Taco in the in the whale. Um it's called the whale now, right? Yeah. The beach love eating the pre burgers. Um and so he used to I'm not sure if it was legal or not, but he
actually lived where his business was. And I would encourage as that area rebuilds, it would be wonderful if by right they could have some smaller units there, one, two, three to help support their employees or they can live there. You know, the less congestion, less commuting we have on and off the island. Um, everyone's going to live a little
bit longer and have a little less frustration. You know, at one time I met a friend here. Um, uh, he was he started in um, in St. compete and I started in Naples and he beat me here by an hour uh because if I I came up through the south and and Estster Boulevard was like you
know.5 miles an hour for for about 45 minutes and and it took forever. So we we know in peak season it can take a very long time to get anywhere which is another reason why we're suggesting a little bit of commercial down where your your your your highest concentration of homesteaded units are to help mitigate
and reduce that kind of unnecessary congestion. Um, one other quick thing then. So, you talked about additional staff. That was a little shocking. 400, 450. >> No, no, not not for the town. I'm saying additional employees to for the restaurants. Yeah. Your town. I don't know. I don't know what your current employment levels. Yeah. I wasn't saying
you need I apologize. I didn't mean to imply you needed 500 employees, but you're going to see 500 new jobs open on this island. And whether they can fill them or not, >> I don't know. You know, I mean, a hotel alone can have 50 to 50 to 100 employees. And you know, there's not one
solution to this where we're going to, oh, if we just did this, then that'll just solve the problem. There's no way. I don't think there's room on the island to have 500 rental apartments, right? But but you'd still have a hundred, you know, and can help solve part of that problem. And if you choose to go the ADU ADU route, as long as again, you have
teeth to control that it's used for the right purposes, I I I applaud that, too. Again, and legally in FEMA and all of the above. Dave, if I could on the ADU thing, if I can just add and you can maybe talk about it in your projections how it might change, but challenges going forward for us is meeting the
flood flood zone regulations. So, ADUs going forward from here on out have to be ele they'd have to be elevated. We can't have anything at the ground level anymore like they're used to be on the beach. >> So, when you're doing your projections, obviously that's going to be a factor because the cost >> of of of building those goes up quite a
bit. Right. Well, that's why I said and making them legal because I mean people want to get like a TED shed and haul it behind their house and you know that's just not I mean >> it could work but it's not legal and it's not safe. That's what makes it a real challenge is having an ADU you know on the beach is because your BF
sometimes is 8 10 15 20 22 feet above above natural ground. So, uh, it is a challenge why I I I'm thinking more in terms of if we had, again, I'm not saying affordable housing per se, but if you have rental housing, and I said this before, not to bore you, I'll say it again. I've seen people plunk down $50
million for a house that they visit for one week a year. I have never seen someone pay a hundred,000 in rent and then not use it. I've never seen someone pay 50,000 in rent and not use it. It's a it's a once there's a sunk cost, I've spent their 50 million, then they don't really care about it. But no one's going
to are you I got to shell out more money for rent. I'm not even using. Are you kidding me? Very few people are going to do that. And again uh uh we want to uh hopefully that doesn't happen. We want these units to be used by people that actually live and contribute to the island's success. So
uh okay. So our our uh findings recommendations. So our short-term population growth is going to uh I don't use the e- word but explode. It's it's going to get big really really fast. Even across the street, you can see they're putting the finishing touches on these buildings. They're they appear to be just weeks away from being fully back
into the market. And that means being marketed and this is a great place. You can look at the success of Margaritavville. All you've got to do is have the units here and you know they are going to come. Um so I'm going to step into traffic here. Uh but I failed to mention so I'm a licensed professional engineer. I'm a certified
professional planner, but I also have a masters where I focused on on fiscal impact analysis for municipal budgets. So I'm stepping into traffic, but I'm I'm brave. So the good news and bad news. So in 2026 27, we think you will meet or exceed your taxable value. So
that's not the assessed value, but what they actually charge taxes on the assessed value of your units. You're going to reach what you did prean. On one hand, that's kind of pretty good, right? Hey, we're back. Except then I I'm going to tell you, but that's the same thing as not getting a raise for five years in a high inflationary
environment, right? So, I think you'll really be back probably around 2030. We think then you'll you you will be in in 2022, you will exceed your 22 revenues because of all these units that are coming back online and reaching their full potential. Um, also what could be
changing some of this too is as non-homestead units are sold or even homesteaded units are sold, you know, they're suppressed. They they might have may have I just had a an echo cardiogram. It turns out the technician, her family bought a condo here in 1972
and she said they just in fact it was I think it was was a condo timeshare. They w up selling out to a big developer. I can't remember which one it was. It's Gwing. It was one of these ones up and down the beach and her parents bought the unit I think for 32 big money. 32 7s 32,000 was a lot of money, right? They
just sold it I think for 600,000. Um uh and my point there is that uh if that unit was was owned since 197 it might be have a taxable value of you know 200,000 whereas the real retail value might be 6 or 700,000 as those
kinds of sales occur you're also likely to see a boost in your taxable uh uh values which then hence means of course increase in revenue. So that's my sort of loose prediction. I don't know that's going to happen but I'm we've been studying and watching your numbers and we think that that that's really going to happen. And so again, you'll reach
pre-EN numbers around 2627 and we believe you'll exceed pre-EN in 2022 by 2030. Uh employment levels are getting ready to increase substantially or the demand for employment is going to increase substantially. If uh I'm not
saying it's your fault or your problem, but if something isn't done, those jobs might be hard to fill and it might styy the ability to offer goods and services, restaurants on the island, which might cause even more traffic then because people are now having to drive off island to get dinners and those sorts of things. So, it's uh uh sort of a catch
22, right? Uh if we don't do it, then we're going to have congestion, but if we do do it, then still people are going to want to come. Uh there is no good answer here. And then of course the promotion of of uh annual rental housing versus seasonal rental will greatly increase your permanent population,
enhance the quality of life and I believe reduce congestion overall too because they won't be now traveling on and off the island in the morning or the afternoon. They'll be here and it'll be a great place to live. Um so a high quality life isn't accidental.
Um it's it's in your hands. I I hope that you uh keep this in mind and I'm not here to again tell you how you should think or feel. You know, you guys are elected. I am not. You're a policy maker. I am not. Uh but you must think about a high quality of life and what does that mean to you as a council both
individually and collectively. Um maybe work on ways to attract uh professionals. I heard you guys you want dentists and doctors. Um I'm not a communist. I am a a free market buck guy, but I'm also willing to recognize that a dentist probably is going to spend 500,000 to put in equipment that
might be washed away by a next storm. So, it might it might behoove the town to take some of its resources like just as a crazy example where town hall used to be and make some of the ground for a commercial. You could rent it as a subsidized cost. I know it doesn't make sense subsidizing a doctor, but if you
want to attract some of these people that aren't naturally attracted to the island, that might be one of the mechanisms where you can help bring them to the island and keep them here because you're owning and controlling uh the rent for them and making it otherwise uh a um a viable prospect of being on the
beach and providing services to beach residents. Um, and then again, I've hit this in the ground so many times, then locating just, you know, 10 20,000 square feet of services about mid island. If that is proposed by a developer, that would be a good idea to help reduce congestion and enhance the quality of life for your full-time
residents. There's a lot of science. There's a lot of art in what I've said. If you'd like to ask questions or or or uh um back me into a corner, I'm all here and I'm all ears. >> Jim, you have any questions for Dave? >> Uh, first of all, thank you, Dave. Uh
very very interesting information. Uh you suggested a hypothesis early in your presentation that I just want to wrestle with you on a bit. >> Um you suggested that uh that in the commercial uh zone pro uh properties
that are vacant that there's a there's a likelihood that they're more likely to be hotels than condos given the reason that you suggested. It's been my experience since the storm over the last three years. The complete opposite is occurring in the sense that those who are are developers, those who finance
development, they're very reticent to invest at a hotel because we've had some not only hurricane challenges, but we've had COVID, we've had red tide. And the risk element for a hotel, particularly on the south end of the island, is extremely high for the developer. In fact, they could never get financing for
just a hotel. They need additional density. they need additional height to make the economics work. I just wanted to have you sort of comment on my comment in the sense that that seems to be contrary to what's what's happening on the south end and in a minimum they
need a condo piece of their puzzle to help then they'll pre-sell those condos to help finance the hotel in order to make the economics work. There's a lot of folks who there there's just a lot of denial about the realities of postian economics here on Fort Myers Beach, particularly when it comes to these
hotels. And I just wondered if you want to comment on that and maybe wrestle with me a bit on it. >> Sure. Yeah. I get down in the mud. So, if you roll back the tape, what I actually said was your time shares are likely to come back not as time shares, but as as as hotel rooms. That's what I didn't say commercial. I said it was it was your time shares that are likely to
come back as hotels because time shares are very difficult to finance. and we just see it going that way versus converting to out and out multif family condominiums. >> Okay. So, you're you different you're using the word time share, not condo at that point. I know there's a subtle difference, >> right? Well, there there's only about three or four of them up and down the
beach, but but those and and they've been washed away. >> My prediction is they could come back as condominiums. My gut tells me they're going to come back as condos or sorry, as as hotel rooms. Now, with that said, and I'm not trying to muddy the waters here, but I'll get down. Let's really
rustle in the mud. So, a condo in the in in the proper page of codes is a is a 400 or an 0400. Okay. But there's this thing called a condo, right? And here's the beauty. That's called a 407 or actually I'm sorry, it's a 404. The subsetting 04 behind it means that it's
it's it's for non-long-term use even though it is technically part of a condominium like the pink shell, right? We see a lot of that. That is probably how a developer is going to function. They're going to actually sell the unit to you and your wife and everyone here on on the council, right? And then they're going to say, "And the good news is you can't even come stay in it
because we're going to rent it out and use it as a hotel. Don't worry, we'll send you a check each month or every quarter uh for the profits that's left over." We we see that probably happening. A high probability. Those condo tells have really sort of taken off. Now, will everything be a conduct? No, I don't I don't believe the
Margaritavville has any condo units in it. Uh but we certainly know Pink Shell's got that number and I believe uh I can't name names. London Bay, I believe that might be a condo approach, too. But again, the financing is not all in. I'm not sure about that. Did I evade your question or >> No, no. It's it's an interesting issue
because I think certainly from everyone who wants to invest on the south end that I talked to in the last three years, the condo concept, not not time share, but the traditional condo concept is the safe or return on investment, easier dynamic. But but but on the south
end where there's a desperate need where there is no hotel, there's no restaurant on the Gulf. uh there's no tiki bar on the Gulf to access the beautiful Gulf uh uh uh waters. So that's the challenge and I just want to make sure we got that clear because
>> we're going to have to help the developers in some capacity if we want those kind of amenities like a hotel tiki barrest uh on the Gulf. We're going to need to do some things otherwise that the areas that were once hotels will become condos
and we'll never get them back again. that that's a concern that I have. But thank you. Your comments have been very helpful. >> Right. It'd be interesting. And forgive me. I try to know everything, but I don't. I try. I really do. But the holiday dam, what's the latest on that? Is that coming back as a as a one story or >> it's coming back is it it's it's
pitching an intram solution while it works on a long-term solution because of the volatility of the market and financing. It's very difficult to and the regulatory climate is volatile right now as you imagine here in Fort Myers Beach. So, it's difficult to put forth a long-term solution at this point because
there's so much uncertainty, >> right? I really do see more private equity doing a more commercial type development on the beach. Not not saying restaurants, I'm saying like condos, condo, that sort of thing. Because again, Champlain Tower has taught us that if you give a group of people the ability to say, "Well, I don't want to
spend 300,000 per unit to fix these repairs that I can't even see are going to make any difference to my value." They vote no. And then in the end, you have big problems. I I think the condominium laws that Florida has enacted and ones they're still going to be enacting is going to I think drive the market not away from condos but
especially on the beach more towards some sort of conventional commercial management and ownership. I absolutely agree with that. The pressure to build more condos on the on the Gulf side in particular on the south end, but from for a public from the public interest standpoint, the public benefit,
there is no hotel on the south end. And of course, during season, you if you if you have a if you own if you live here as a resident in a two-bedroom condo and you have friends and family who visit, you know, there's nowhere for them to stay unless they drive off island or you fight the traffic to head north, right? >> So, we're in a quandry in the sense that
we desperately need a hotel on the south end. who desperately want to enjoy the restaurant/tiki bar of the Gulf on the south end because you can't get north during season. So, it's a quality of life issue and a and a and a public amenity benefit dynamic. So, just wanted to make sure we're we clarified that.
So, that's helpful. That that's all I have. Thank you. >> And also to be clear, I think you're you're uh not luck, but you're things are going to change quickly and and people are going to start taking notice as as these people return back together. people are going to say, "Whoa, there's there's all this demand and and there's
going to be, I think, a rush." I think you're you're it's this is sort of the calm before the storm. I I think that you're going to be seeing a lot over the next two years. People rediscovering I know they have discovered Fort Myers Beach, but rediscovering its potential and it and its uh unmet needs for goods
and services and those sorts of things and more hotel rooms. as these things come back online, as more of the um uh damaged structures are removed, I think it's going to entice because one thing I've noticed is that development begins development. So, as London Bay um gets going, that is going to probably cause a
whole spur for uh new development down that way and reinvestment. That's just what I'm predicting. >> Thank you, Rebecca. >> Yes, I do. Dave, um can you speak to at what point would all these changes
you're you're uh presenting to us impact infrastructure or town staffing needs? Um so I didn't look at you know how we keep up with those how we you know can maintain what we have. >> So to to give you a long answer to and an indirect answer is you have to look
at the I don't know the utilization rate of your employees. I without talking to him I would guess they're probably at between 95 and 105% already. So as your permanent population grows by you know close to 50% as people return to the island I see there's going to be a need for probably some additional help to
meet the calls and things that are going to be happening as we have more of that and then as our shoulder seasonal people start showing up again because you guys have been devoid of a lot of that for the last three years. It's going to be, I swear to God, it's going to be like flipping a switch and you're gonna like, whoa, they're here.
And then when that happens, the phone will be ringing off the hook and the park's going to need more service and code enforcement's going to be busy and and all those things. Um, it could be wrong, but if I wasn't confident, I wouldn't be saying it here today because there's one thing about my job when I forecast, people always like to go back,
what did he say? And then see if it really happened or not. Um, that's what I think. >> Okay. And the same would apply to capital improvements, right? Our timing of things and our plan, >> right? So, we have just had the big investment in the sterile boulevard here
by by by FDOT and and lead DOT. Um, I don't know where your water and sewer ranks. Uh, it would not I could probably do it for free analyze what your water and sewer capacity, how that might change. I don't know what your your current treatment volumes are uh compared to what this could be. But
again, u even in peak season um from my personal experience spending again it was decades but I've spent a good 15 years on the beach. Even at peak season in the past we never reached 100% of of full I would say a neighbor that was
empty or this was empty. I think that might be changing too. I think we're going to see utilization rates of rentals to increase even more which then could exacerbate water and sewer issues. But I'm not saying you don't have enough capacity. I really don't know >> how do we address that? How do you
recommend we address that? Or is there some mechanism? >> You you have a company called Tetrate Tech. I know that works for you on water and sewer and I know they're they're comfortable using our data and such and so they'd probably be a good one to talk to your existing consultant about your flows and such and making sure you have
adequate uh public facilities in terms of that goes. For me, this is one of the most important >> parts of this whole exercise is understanding how those numbers are going to correlate with what we have for infrastructure and what our needs are going to be 5 to 10 years from now because I I believe exactly what you
believe. We're already starting to see it now. Over the next couple years, that light switch is going to be all the way on. And are we prepared for it? I don't know that we are, but we need to start. >> Yeah. Well, I'm telling you, it's very You can't prepare for it now. You got because you don't have the money to do it. You sort of you need them to come.
So they create the the funding so that you can hire the people to meet the need and um at least you're forewarned and you seem to be rec fully recognizing what's happening. So at least you'll be prepared as it starts to happen not just saying well well is this just an uptick or is it a trend I'm saying it's going to be a trend. Um so the next job that
we have to do for you is actually an analysis of your of your park system and we using this in this uh population data to help advise you on how your levels of service for your parks might change over time and such. So that is the last piece of work we do. There's also something money in our budget for something what
we call alternative scenarios. And that's where sort of the gloves comes off. And if you want us to model something unique or different in the town, we can model that and show you how that may impact um uh both your full-time residents, your part-time residents, or the demand for commercial services or whatnot. So again, that's
already in our budget. It's sitting there. We don't spend it until we get direction from the town on what you guys would like to explore and what what if this happened or what if that happened. It can be as simple as a project or it can be well what if the north end did this or the south end did that like what if we introduced another thousand hotel rooms in the south end how would that
change things well that I'm just throwing that for example that could be a very interesting analysis because that could create some dis different changes from what you've experienced in the past so Scott >> so let's play a little algebra here >> yes sir
>> the school which is one of the biggest issues that we have right now with with the school up up in limbo and there's there's no certainty. What factor of X does that do to our homesteaded properties in your opinion? Have you ever analyzed a town that that has lost
a school and what the impacts of of not having a school on on homesteaded versus vacation rental properties? >> Right. I have not. However, I will point out that none of those none of those towns that we mentioned, none of them have they haven't have a population large enough to even have a school
>> really. Uh so um you're sort of unique in that you you have one and it really I think the next if there's going to be a decision made what I would recommend you or the Lee County School Board is I would just sit in your hands for at least 12 to 18 months wait for these people to return and see uh what that
demographic looks like. Do we have more children showing up or fewer children showing up and then if more show up well that's more of a reason to keep the school and if fewer people fewer children show up then that's a different decision that the town can then run. Well, it's hard to make a decision on a $ 1.5 million house when you've got
three kids and there's no school. >> So, I don't know if we can sit in our hands for 18 months, >> right? And well, and then the the reality is can we do a lot of modeling for FDOT? If they're pay spending 1.5 million for the house, which is a very inexpensive house in terms of beach, you know, three million, uh they probably
send their kids to private school. Um >> you'd be surprised. I mean, you you'd be surprised that we've had a a realtor lose five deals over over $2 million because there's not a school right now. >> Okay. >> So, it'd be interesting if if if there's
a way we could figure out what that X factor is, >> right? Uh so, what we need to do is I need to wait probably another 18 months for the for the surge to come back and then we can pull some new data on demographically and see how many younger younger kids are showing up on the island. But I need more time because
right now there clearly is just not there's not enough hardly any, you know. >> Well, Dave, to me that that's concerning because waiting 18 months versus making decisions to drive that data to me makes more sense than waiting to see how the data does itself, right? If you take action and you try to drive that data to
me, that seems like a better strategy than waiting 18 months to see what happens. >> I guess >> Will always says hope is not a strategy. >> And I completely agree with you, Mr. Mayor. Uh it's just I don't know how to attract uh specifically families with kids to do something um Dave
>> versus an alternative I guess. >> Dave, if I could just interject the one of the challenges that the Lee County School District, they hired a demographer to do some of this research, but they never factored in sort of the whole paradigm shift postcoid and that we have a lot of uh parents, particularly affluent parents, who can
afford a $ 1.5 million home with young children because they work from home. Now, the whole model has changed and I know it's going back a little bit, but there's still a lot of folks who are working from home who have small kids >> and that's something that the Lee County School District never factored into their equation and we saw the numbers
coming back strong after the school reopened before Hurricane Milton hit again. So, the trend is there. It just it's never been captured by the professionals. So, I would challenge you to kind of see if there's a way to factor that element of postcoid uh work
dynamic uh in into the into the equation because I don't think the Lee County School District and maybe that was by design never factored that in and that's been unfortunate because it's it's I think it's distorted the potential for that school. >> For what it's worth, just a small back. Five years ago, we were doing the
demographics for Lee County School District, but they hired a California firm um for unknown reasons. >> Terrible. I'm sorry, >> but go ahead record. They're they're terrible. They they their numbers were so bad, but it was to their to the school district's uh benefit uh in terms
of their preconceived notion to close the school that that their their their demographics have have really caused us heartburn and they've never and I think it's been by design never factored in this whole new paradigm. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Go ahead.
>> I just wanted to piggyback on something you said, Mayor, um about planning. I'm wondering if others have done this or we might consider how we might tighten our short-term rental, some of our zoning so that we make sure that our communities,
specifically Mid Island where you say most of the full-time homesteaded people live, >> that they stay community focused >> um and not turn into, you know, you're not living in a neighborhood anymore, but you're living in a vacation place where all your neighbors are now um
transient folks. Is that something we could do? >> We can't do that because our our code our short-term marrow code was written so long ago that we'd lose our grandfather ability and then if the state passes something in the future, we'd we'd be we'd have to follow state
rule. So without changing it right now, we're protect we're protecting ourselves down the road. >> Protecting it. >> So if it's a weekly rental neighborhood like a lot of those are, they can stay that way. >> You also risk a B Harris claim, but I'm not trying to be your attorney. Sorry. >> I'm sorry to say that, Dave.
>> You also risk a Bert Harris claim. >> He's correct. I mean, we've we've gone through that nightmare. Um, in other areas of the state, you you're very familiar with Homes Beach and Anamaria. >> Yeah, it's it's difficult. Uh, and so to lay something else at your footsteps,
and this is answering you more, Mr. Mayor, I'm thought about a few things. So, I know the town is constrained for funds. I I I swear to God it's going to change very very quickly. But one incentive you could offer and I'm just throwing this as a what if is you can't control Lee County, but you can control
what you do. You could give a 100% tax break to people with families with kids that that decide to move and make this their home. You know, you're only losing, you know, your 1.25 mills or whatever it is. >> It's not not a bunch because you can't stop the Lee County property tax. But it's it's a way of the town saying,
"Look, we want you so bad we're willing to not even charge you tax." I'm not we're not talking about thousands of families because there's no room for them, right? We're talking about maybe at at best hundreds, but that might be a nice little huh well, you know, they actually do want to see us there and I I see that. Not saying you should do that.
I'm just throwing it on the table as a a potential it's a low cost for a town. It's a way for your as your point well let's make the people do or not make them, but let's encourage them to do we what we want. And that might be one mechanism. Yeah, that's an interesting thought if you comply that compile that with what's
being talked about at the state level with homestead taxes. >> Um yeah, >> and perhaps even um a tax break to uh a multi-home situation where somebody is encouraged
with a tax break to rent their home for less to someone who works on the island. A >> lot of there's a lot of possibilities out there. >> Yeah. Okay. >> Anyway, I do appreciate very much you giving me time today. It's I
>> one more one more counselor to >> go ahead. Yes, sir. >> And thank you for that. But um always it being at the end my questions have been addressed. So, as a matter of fact, just recently with what you discussed about providing tax exemptions and things like that. >> Okay. You know, when I first came here
in 1989, if you had told me someday I was going to be in Fort Myers Beach in a suit, I would have said you were crazy. Um, but now it's happened three times. So, pleasure to be here. >> Well, it's only it's your fault. We weren't expecting you to be here in a suit. >> Well, I you know, you hire me, you get me. So,
>> Mr. Mayor, beyond. >> Yes, sir. >> David, thanks. I think that I I actually think that I was going to ask the school question, so I'm glad several of the counselors brought it up, but I think your presentation today actually does support our argument that we need the school back and and because not just you
showed potential for returning full-time residents, you know, who who those that are here, but also those that are returning. Um, and those that are here, we know that they want the beach school because the the schools that they're choosing to send, if if not Heights Elementary School, the school they're
choosing to send their kids to is Santael, which is the most like what was here, you know, of of those schools in the area. So, they're not choosing the the private schools, although many of them could. So, I think that's a data point to consider. But also you mentioned so rightfully I think in this
presentation one thing we've talked about and several actually of the businesses have talked to us about is the huge recruiting tool that that school is. You talk about the increase increasing number potential for um employees business employees. I agree with you that's
>> we're already seeing that number tick up but I think it's going to tick up significantly uh in the next you know 12 to 18 months two years >> and that is a huge recruiting tool for them. They've come and spoken to us about that. So, okay. Any thoughts on that as well? I mean, you you said it in
your presentation, but are you think I'm tracking on that? >> I do. Are you talking about using u saying that we have a school here as a recruiting why you should come here >> before and after school care? You know, it it lessens their, you know, child care costs. Also, they get to attend
more of the school events because it's it's close to where they work, >> right? >> Um so, >> and don't forget about your employees. they're they're are they are most likely to be the ones to also have children. And so this this theoretical rental project that I was talking about that would maybe service some of the
employees that live and work on the island. It could also then help foster uh the ability to support and have children on on the island as well. >> And I think Mr. Mayor, I'd like to, you know, just propose that that one of those special projects that we ask him to work on um is a continuation would
be, you know, the school um looking more into that. Yeah, that would be my my suggestion too is how that school could be used as a tool to to drive those numbers versus wait for them to see how they happen. You know, we we've already implemented through a lot of our decisions programs for employers to use
that as a tool to attract better employees that they can bring their kids down to help support that school. And it was working as as Jim said until Milton hit. Um and now we're back to where we started again. But we we know it's a model that can work. I think you've given us some good ideas of how we could
get there, uh, you know, through taxing, through other things like that to help drive those people here, through ADUs, through other things like that. But it's going to take the school to be able to do it. That's that's the key. That's the tool in the toolbox that we need to be able to to drive those numbers. >> And, you know, I'm not I'm not above
using guilt. And, you know, let's say about half of the property taxes you pay on a unit is schools, right? Fort Myers Beach. News flash, you're a donor, right? And and >> yeah, they don't they don't How can you take away when I'm I generate I I don't
even know what it is. Uh say 5,000 times. >> It's about 29 million. >> 29 30 million and you won't even spend three million or whatever it is to keep my school. That seems to be a >> welcome to our world. >> Yeah, Dave, where you could help us on the numbers is is and and and Will made
a good point here. Aside from the the economic uh uh development dynamics and the help for a workforce, the uh the Santael Elementary School model, I've heard, and Tracy, correct me if I'm wrong on this, but I've heard that up
upwards of half of the kids at Santael are are kids who are of folks who just work on Santael but don't live there. And and and that that's a dynamic that uh the school district seems to never want to relate to Fort Myers Beach. and
if if there's a way for you to maybe do a little research in Santael to see if indeed what is that percentage and how that might apply to Fort Myers Beach so we can I think be making an even stronger argument for our school. I think that might be helpful. >> Okay. I I can do some of that research.
>> Tracy's a good contact person for that. She said >> I might need some help because u often uh it's so easy when you ask for data to say oh I'm sorry that's public information I can't share you know you know hippo regul whatever regulation they want to throw at me so in fact I'm
not I don't care what their sex is or I just want to know what grade they're in and how many there are of them very innocuous information and you can do a lot with just that piece of information so I can work with Dr. Kohler to >> that sounds good >> to look at some of that plus I know we because of my partner Dr. Paul Van Busker. He actually invented a special
model that he used in Lee County to track every single seat in every single school in Lee County. Again, this is up to the year uh 2020 or through 2019. And so I have a lot of back data on Fort Myers Beach of how many kids were in each seat for a given year and then the forecast what that was going to look
like. So I have that in my back pocket as well. >> And while I may not know the the percentage of off island students that attend Santael, what I can say is they do have an off island bus stop. So parents and other residents are able to drive their children to that off island bus stop that then picks them up and
brings them to the island. So parents aren't fighting that traffic. So that is an advantage as well that needs to be considered. >> It's a pleasure to work for you and again we I care about you and what's best for you. You are my are my main
goal to help in this process. So anything we can do to help you is is uh is our pleasure and again we thank you very much for your trust. Any other questions or? >> No, I think we're good for now. Thanks for Thank you so much. See you next time. And if you need need anything, I'm always a phone call away. Thank you so much. >> All right. Thank you. Uh, next we have a
presentation by J.R. Evans Engineering about the wave mitigation wall. Where Elizabeth is? She's back there. >> Good morning. >> Good morning. Good to see everybody again. Um hope you all had a great Thanksgiving
uh time. Uh today I was asked to do a presentation specifically to talk about um number one now that we've we've actually started the the due diligence study for the uh wave mitigation strategy uh options for the for the
whole island and specifically to look at what that would mean for Times Square if that was pursued. Um, and it's it's really a dive into um what that process looks like and then what the regulations
would be for new structures if they did if they were able to achieve a flood map revision based on the implementation of a wave mitigation wall um system. So again, introductions um for for people online and in the audience. I'm
with J.R. Evans Engineering. We are a local civil engineering and flood plane management firm here in Fort Myers. Um I've been doing I've been working in the area for over 24 years and I focus on specifically
uh flood flood plane management, water resource, coastal engineering, those types of um projects. So, as I mentioned, we have initiated um the work for the shoreline protection due diligence study. Um just wanted to highlight the purpose and the goals of
the study. We've we've we've reviewed those before in a previous presentation. Um again, it's to explore and evaluate uh mitigation options, which could include mitigation walls along with enhanced dunes and uh potential for
pedestrian use corridors. with those um systems. It's to address the coastal storm surge and wave impact and um basically really enhance the resiliency to those impacts for the island. Uh the goal, one of the
goals is to actually look at conceptual designs for what that um system might look like along different sections of the island. Obviously the conditions will change based on um wave conditions and surge conditions as well as adjacent
land use conditions to those to the shoreline. We will also identify funding opportunities that could be explored um in depth to help fund any of the initiatives that you all want to move forward with. Um
I highlighted in green that the about the evaluation of the potential for a flood map revision process through FEMA. That's specifically what we're talking about today. As I mentioned, we've um initiated the study with the data collection and
initial analysis, coastal analysis phase. So hopefully in the next I would say two months, we'll have an update on that process. for background and and context really looking at how the flood zones
are defined for the island. Um it's strictly all coastal flooding which is a lot different than rainfall and and riverine flooding. So you're dealing with wind generated uh waves along with a surge event. And for the B for the
island, the primary um coastal flood zone designations are your VE, which is your high-risk velocity zones, and then followed by a an AE zone, and that's that AE zone is subdivided into a coastal AE and a non- coastal AE. And
then you have sometimes you'll have an AO zone. Uh the O is for over topping, and then you'll have a an X zone, which there are very few X zones on the island. And those are areas where the actual ground elevation is higher than
the adjacent flood elevation. So how how do the wave mitigation systems give you the opportunity to do a map revision? is because these these systems are designed to withstand the surge and wave forces associated with that FEMA
defined 100-year event. They are designed to effectively reduce the wave heights below a three-foot height on top of a a surge which is and that three foot is the threshold for
defining where the VE zone starts and then where it transitions to an AE zone. So anything any wave heights below three feet are considered a co coastal a zone and then they're designed to a certain level not to cause concern
for um a wave runup event or su excessive over topping or wave wave reflection. So those are key components of the system that we always look at to make sure we're not going to cause any
adverse impacts to adjacent properties. And based on those design parameters, that that system is considered to be a certified structure in FEMA's eyes, meaning that it provides enough level of protection to actually
warrant a change in the risk of flood damage on on the landward side of that structure. So we're able to define that the the Vzone would actually stop pretty much at that structure and
then an Azone would commence afterwards. And the typical process that is is taken with these is we do a the whole process is a letter of map revision. But when you're talking about a proposed project, it's always recommended to go in with a
conditional letter of map provision to get FEMA's approval of the proposed changes. If you were to actually install this system, that way you don't have to invest until you know that FEMA is going to be acceptable with it. And then once once
you obtain the other construction level permits through the town through the state then you come in with an asbuilt lmer letter of map provision to document that that that system's been implemented and now the change should happen to the
flood zone. So again, a conditional letter of map revision and a letter of map revision. These are the two um definitions um that descri that that I just summarized um on the last slide, but
it's actually you'll get a official determination letter from FEMA that documents the changes and that stays with you know it doesn't it's the only determination you'll get until such a time if if FEMA were to ever come back
in change do a whole new regional study and actually change the surge information, baseline information. Um, but in our experience, it takes them at least 8 to 10 years to do that. It takes a long time. For instance, your maps are
dated 2022, but they started that study back in 20134. So, took that long for them to actually become effective. Um, so I doubt that they'll be revisiting this this surge study for for some time.
So, what does that mean for Times Square? Again, um other other benefits that come with the wave mitigation system include public infrastructure. You've got some public utilities,
roadway, pedestrian areas in that corridor, the Times Square area that would also be protected from um potential damage from wave impact. property of value preservation again reduced damage from storms,
reduced upland erosion, opportunity for the flood zone designation revision and which doing that allows for easier compliance for new structures to the local your local flood plane ordinance
and to the for building code and ASC ASC 24 for flood resistant construction requirements. There's also an opportunity for flood insurance premium reductions based on those structures being located in a
lesser risk flood zone. We believe there's opportunity to enhance um the recreation area of of Time Square, making every make it in integrate the system into the pedestrian
corridor to make it not only functional from a risk reduction standpoint, but also something that can be enjoyed from the visitors. So, current conditions for Times Square area. This the image is basically a map we put together to show where the
extent of the zone VE is in red, the AE zone is in blue. It also delineates where the 1991 D coastal construction control line is and where the 1978 original CCL or C CCSL setback line is
today. So all of the area of Time Square is in the VE zone. Majority of the area is seawward of the 1991 CCL. And then the most seawward parcels are
impacted by the the 78 line. >> A quick quick question on this. >> Yes. So like at the top there in the middle if if a property is partially in the VE and partially in the AE I assume that you have to go by the codes that would reply in the VE zone. Is that correct? Okay.
>> Yeah. If the if the building straddles a zone or even a corner of it touches the VE >> subject to the VE. >> Okay. >> The entire property or just that section of the property? >> It it depends on the structure footprint. It's really about where the
structure touches it. So the regulatory requirements for structures for in a zone ve and and seawword of the CCCL all new structures have to have their lowest structural or horizontal structural member of their first
finished floor level at or above the design flood elevation. And and when you're seawword of the CCCL, that's going to be DP's 100redyear elevation, which is several feet higher than FEMA. So where FEMA is 14, DP is likely going
to be around 18 to 19 ft. Only use for enclosures allowed are for only for storage, access, and parking. New structures must have an open foundation supported on piles, peers,
columns, grade beams. There's no allowance for dry flood proofing even for um commercial areas and no structural field is allowed to support a structure. So changing the the the flood zone from
a VE to an AE coastal um opens up some new opportunities for new structures in that area. Um, number one, as far as the design flood elevation and elevation requirements going to an AE zone, coastal AE zone,
the A and B and C word of the CCCL, the habitable floor, the first habitable floor still needs to be above the design flood elevation, and that's likely going to be D's elevation. Um, the key is that
you're allowed now to have non-residential uses can be dry floodproofed. So you can have those uses at a lower floor as long as you properly dry flood proof them. And that means making sure that the enclosed space is watertight. Not only not only making
sure your windows and doors are covered, but also your walls are designed to be watertight as well. And dry flood proofing is still not permitted for any residential building or any residential use of a mixeduse
building. And the the criteria for dry flood proofing um allowance in the Florida building code the the qualification is that you need to make sure your foundation that's supporting that enclosed space is also designed to
account for any potential scour or wave action per the um per D and the actual the for building code chapter or section 3109 there are certain non-habitable uses that are allowed um below the
100red-year storm elevation for D and they can be above the FEMA elevation or below the FEMA elevation if if properly drive floodproof and these allowed uses I think are pretty key to understand.
So obviously vehicle parking, storage areas, building access, but you could do small mechanical, electrical rooms, you could do retail shops, which I think is a key component for Times Square, commercial pool bars, snack bars with portable grill areas, commercial dining
areas, but the permanent kitchen has to be at the D elevation, bathrooms, recreational spaces such as gym, gyms, card rooms, commercial service, storage, and back of house function and other non-habitable
uses. Basically, nothing that's used for living, sleeping. I >> just want to go back cuz what you said there, I think you missed a key point that if people are listening and if they can't see it, >> is it said that the commercial dining areas with the permanent kitchen is located landward of the CCL or above?
>> Above. Yes. >> So, they could they would have to elevate it. >> Yes. >> You for the or was a big thing there that I think didn't come across. >> I didn't. Yeah, you're right. I didn't. or if like if um if the the building straddles the CCCL boundary, if they had
the permanent kitchen on the landward side of that boundary, >> you could put it >> up above. >> Well, you could put it lower. >> Yes, it was on this. >> Yes. Yes. >> The landward side of the CCC. >> Landward side. Yes.
So basically what it means is that for Time Square it would create opportunity for more accessible more easily accessible commercial uses um for the for the visitors. So in summary, um the implementation of
the wave mitigation wall system for time square means that there's going to, you know, there'll be reduced damage to those structures from storm surge and wave effects. It provides opportunities for enhanced pedestrian use corridors and public spaces. Again, it provides the
opportunity to revise the flood zone designation um for those properties landward of the system. Again, it creates flexibility um an opportunity to have those more accessible commercial uses um which
makes it a little easier to comply with the flood plane ordinance and with the flood resistant construction requirements. So that's that's really my presentation for today. Um be glad to answer any questions. >> John, questions? >> Yeah, out of left field because I was
reading something this morning. Are you familiar with living seaw walls? >> Yes. >> What I see Miami Beach and I think Longbo Key are looking into those. Are do you see that as an option for Fort Myers Beach? >> I think there's a um
a concept for that to work. It may not be I mean those I think those seaw walls are >> typically a seaw wall is is going to be something that it's always it's >> in the water itself interacts with the meanh high water line but there are
living shorelines that are more upland and perhap still have that hardened feature with with the natural feature for it. So that's going to be one of the concepts we're looking at. >> Are you familiar with the company that uh is doing that with like 3D printing and things like that? Yes, there. Yeah,
they're actually the walls actually have um >> plastic or >> things I don't know what the terminology is. Aspects of it that create habitat for like oysters and Yeah. >> Okay. Thanks. >> Yep. >> Scott, >> um if you could go back to uh slide
seven, >> what does it mean for Times Square? >> Um your last point was enhanced beach access and scene quality. So, could could we in fact design a wall there that would actually add a couple beach
accesses? >> And if that happens, then could we get potentially TDC funds because we're creating new beach accesses? >> Well, I'll let her >> Yes. >> Yeah. It's
>> Yes. Um that's that the whole concept of creating a pedestrian corridor or um you're asking if we could actually create beach accesses, separate beach
accesses. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> I would think that you know just if you use the pier the pier is receiving TDC funds, >> right? I don't know why this potentially couldn't use TD fund TDC funds as well, but you would be the expert on that more than I would.
>> Do you think so? Let's let's just say you create it where there's two more access points to the beach could or how many do you think we could we could get in there? Probably I'm thinking two. >> It's going to be heavy rellying heavily
relying on u the state's review. >> The engineering I would say the the engineering of it's probably going to really dictate what you could do, wouldn't it? As far as its flexibility and being able to do what it's designed to do, >> right? >> Because I'm I'm thinking at the end of the day, it's all going to be about
cost, right? And can you I I know you've brought this up at other meetings. What What ballpark cost per foot are we looking at or is is not we, but is every is everyone looking at? We've been uh
we feel comfortable with the thousand dollar linear foot cost >> still there. >> Yeah. >> So so potentially hypothetically if we did have some beach accesses points in there then we we in
your opinion think we'd be eligible to get some TDC funding? >> Yes. >> Yeah. >> I would think maybe Nancy could help. I I think the legal description of this would would fit under beach and shoreline. Isn't that one of the big things that they look at through the TDC
is the legal definition of beach and shoreline? >> Most likely. I don't I don't know the answer right off hand to give you >> and I think we would have to you know as far as your local court uh regulations
go um obviously we have to look at those beach accesses if they encroach into the EC zone >> what that means um from a local permitting standpoint. >> Yeah, >> I would certainly think it'd be worth
asking for. >> Yeah. put it that way. >> Yeah, I would too. That's all I have right moment. >> Rebecca, >> this looks interesting. So, would a beach access likely go up and over the wall or be an open spot?
>> Yeah, not necessarily. Uh, as I've talked to with before, um, we've done this where you be like we can create accesses by overlapping um, like two sections of the wall. They might be offset enough to where you create eight, you create access to get
to the beach, but look, you know, in looking from the beach itself uh towards the upland, it would look like a, you know, a solid structure there, but there are actually openings in there to promote access and normal
drainage flow um that needs to happen. And I'm sure you've probably discussed this and I'm just late to the party, but what is the the depth or the width of the wall? Is it something folks could just sit on or can they bicycle? Is it wide?
>> Has that been discussed? >> The the typically the the we usually do concrete cap and that width can vary from a foot and a half to two foot. There's really no uh >> Can you go back? You had a picture I saw of I think it was Clear Water.
>> Yes. >> That it's kind of hard to see, but you could see if if you get a chance, Rebecca, go up to Clear Water Beach. They have it. They have >> I have the bigger slides. Hold on. There. That one. >> So, it gives you kind of an idea. >> Oh, I see. Yeah. Nice. That's nice.
Yeah. And we had some there were some residences or condos that had these seaw walls that are now appear to be way under the sand. >> They there. Yes. There's quite a few properties that already have um retaining walls that have been buried.
Some have been repaired. Mhm. >> Um but that the I think the distinction is that I don't know if those walls were designed the same intent >> the same way. Yes. >> So >> I have one more question. Exactly how far out or is there a limit how far past
the CCL line you can build the wall? >> So as my as I've been recommending we need to keep it landward of the 78 line which is the more seawward line. >> Okay. Um, it not that we couldn't go further
seawward, especially if there's already existing because I know that some of those Seawward properties of Time Square and even the um the parking lot has an existing wall already. Mhm. >> Um
it just gets when there's an existing infrastructure there, we we could utilize that as as a a way to tell the state, hey, we already have this wall here. We want to enhance it and you know
with a a better protecting feature. Um it might be an easier conversation if we move it more landward. So, it's going to be it's going to vary. The location recommendations, I think, are going to vary as we go down the island based on
that aspect. >> Okay. But have you have you done or seen any any walls that were actually in front of the CCL Cword? um only the ones on Beanita Beach because
the the 78 line is further inland. It's actually cuts into the condominium properties there >> and the existing wall is seward of it by about 15 20 feet and we we added we enhanced that wall. So you add it. So if
there's an existing wall there, then you can >> and then you've got you've already got >> you've already got >> specification that there's already a structure there. >> Okay. But you can't go >> further. >> Yeah. But in any of Yeah, I wouldn't we would not go for you know we could not go further. >> Okay.
>> So I think it dep it's going to be very sight specific, location specific of where the recommended locations are going to be. Um, so that's >> okay. Anything else, Rebecca? >> I just wanted to ask, are there any
risks associated that we may not be considering? This this looks good and exciting, and are there things that we may not be considering that you can think of for us to evaluate? >> I don't think so. We um we make sure that we design these
structures to look at all potential risk. Um what's interesting is, you know, um we've gone through several reviews with FEMA on similar projects and um they're very keen about asking about making sure
we're not going to um cause too much disruption from of the material lay of the wall. you know, like loss of soil. Um, so we actually put in what we call like a splash pad behind
the wall and it's designed to um it's designed based on the wave heights that we anticipate coming over the wall and it's there to protect material, but it could also act as a sidewalk for pedestrians. So,
um, it it seems like the things that we're looking at to help mitigate any concerns or risk end up being positives for the overall project. >> Perfect. >> And the life of that wall is expected >> to be. Any idea?
>> I believe uh our structural engineer claims, you know, it's it's like a 50 to 75 year. >> Yeah. >> Thank you. You're welcome, >> Jim. >> Good morning. >> Morning. I wonder the uh the scope of your contract. Is it just for Times Square or is it for the entire island of
Fort Myers Beach? >> For the entire island. >> Is this just the first analysis? >> Yes. >> Most timesensitive one. >> Yes. >> So So that being the case, uh for the Times Square uh proposal and I and again, let's go 10,000 ft. Won't hold you to this. What's the overall cost
estimate to put in a mitigation wave mitigation wall for Times Square ballpark? Who's got LEA? Pull up LEA. You can figure it out. >> Um, >> ballpark. Is it 10 million? Is that 100 million? Is it 1 million? >> No, I mean I
have to guesstimate on the linear foot there. Um, but if it was >> it's going to be a range >> just use a mile. Just use a mile as a calculation. It's not a mile, but use that as a calculation. That would be an easy way for you to back into it. So it
yeah it would be um 5,000 times a,000 so that's 500 like a million dollars. >> So so one $1 million to do the time square section ballpark >> if it was a mile long. >> Yeah if it was a mile and that includes like the engineering design >> math
>> and cost for permitting and doing the the map revision. So, so in your work, and I know you're an engineering firm, but do you do a value proposition for a community? In other words, there's potential for reduced costs for flood insurance. There's potential for
increased land value. >> Yes. Uh, and if particularly if we're talking the entire island at some point, is there a is there a value proposition you could do where you can add up the value of reduced uh flood insurance
premiums, enhanced uh uh uh value of the property, enhanced uses, etc., etc. In other words, does the value proposition just ballpark? Does it does it does it balance? In other words, is the cost of the mitigation wall, aside from, you know,
the the the the carnage of of of of reducing the impact of a hurricane, does the value proposition of a of a of wave mitigation wall equal the cost-saving benefits of it? And can you make that argument? >> Yes. And
>> because I I think you look at um the value related to >> build back >> property value, uh reduce construction cost, >> increased revenue >> for those business. >> I don't disagree with you. I think it can be made, but but you're the expert
and we're going to have to make a case to the taxpayers of Fort Myers Beach. >> Yeah. >> And to the business community, and we're also have going to figure out who's going to bear the cost. Obviously, we're looking at some grant dollars and other opportunities, but someone's going to have to bear the cost. And if we can
make the the public value proposition, and we can make it with data, that's really going to help sell the sell the concept. And so maybe maybe even our previous speaker, uh, Frankie, uh, he might be a good person to marriage with to help try to put that value
proposition together because I know you may not do the economics of this dynamic. you're doing the engineering, but I think at some point we're going to have to talk to the the residents of Fort Myers Beach and say, "Hey, here's the costbenefit analysis of doing this >> and then here's how we're going to here's how we're going to finance it.
We're going to have to come up with a with a with a maybe a very unique financing uh opportunity given the costbenefit analysis. So, just something to think about. But thanks thanks for your time this morning." Well, Jim, I think just rough numbers going off of what Elizabeth said, if you take the whole entire seven mile island, you're
about $37 million roughly to do the entire island. >> Yep. And again, if we can sell that to the residents by saying, "Hey, your flood insurance is going to go down X and the value of your property and obviously the the comfort and and security of knowing that the next storm's going to be less
>> the functionality of your business." >> Yeah. And the transportation corridor up and down the island uh relieving pressure on Eststero Boulevard. There's a lot of variables, but I think we need to collect all those variables and measure them and then put that value proposition together because I think that would be helpful just to in terms
of uh uh helping helping people to understand the value of the idea. >> Yes. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> I've beaten you to death over these questions over the last several months, so I don't have anything more to add to it. I I'm fully aware of what this potential could be for the island. It's
to Jim's point, just getting everyone on board to understand the cost versus reward benefit and how much of it of that say 37 million we could chop away at with grants and TDC funding and things of those sorts. If we could get it to a much lower level, I think it
makes our our our pitch a little easier. >> Yes, I I agree. And and we're excited to be getting started. So, >> Will, do you have anything you want to add? >> No, thank you very much. >> If I could, Mayor, I just going through the presentation. I saw the last slide was uh that the little Hickory Island
Bita Beach construction was completed. When was that done? >> Just completed. >> It's it it's been completed for a couple of months now. Okay. So, >> they are they are doing some additional sand work um to finish. They had to wait till turtle season that was done and now
they're going to complete the sand and the vegetation. >> Is that something you think we could tour or look at or >> Yeah. >> Okay. Yes. Also, um are there any next steps such as working with FEMA to get a reclassification of flooding u issues there or
>> Oh, on for that one, we we did it um >> we already did it once u because we did a small portion of it of it um several years ago. Um they're not looking to to do it again. Okay. So, >> um but we did do the neighbor we did do
Secape and Dolphin Way as well. And those walls are up as well. They but they were done before before Hurricane Ian and we did have flood map revision for them at that time. >> If you could give me a context. So >> Sure. >> Thank you. I appreciate that. >> Actually, Elizabeth, I do have a question. I was speaking with a property owner in the island that was looking at
doing this or is in the process of doing this and they mentioned something about the state giving some push back on the I think you understand what I'm talking about. They were giving some push back. Has that been cleared? >> We're still working >> with them on that. So, we have we have a strategy. Um, I'm still very I'm still
confident that things are going to move forward. I think it's in the way that the um the wall is presented. >> Yeah, that's Yeah. Okay. That's that's what I thought. Yeah. >> All right. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Yep.
>> All right. Next, we have a agenda management. Jim, anything you have to add or want to add? >> Nothing this morning. Thank you. >> Okay. Rebecca, >> nothing. Scott. >> Um, nothing. Do Do we add the thing we talked about
>> yesterday? Is that on there? I have haven't Look, I don't think it is. >> It won't show up on this one, but next one >> on this one. >> It'll show on the next one. >> But just want to verify that that's going to be on >> the town hall property discussion. >> Yeah. Okay, great. >> Jim, John, >> nothing.
>> I do not have anything either. All right, with that, is there uh nothing else on the agenda? this a we don't need a motion to to uh to end the meeting we're going to take a 15minute >> what time is it >> Mr. Mayor. Yes, sir. >> Before we adjourn, this is involves the
next segment. I just uh I want to ask our deputy town manager because she's done such a wonderful job on this and and the presenters for the next segment. Uh we've spent extensive amount of time in the last week or so on the comp plan. And I know the comp plan's different
than the strategic plan, but there's a lot of redundancies. And I see a a 4hour schedule here. I assume I'm hopeful that our with the efficacy of our wonderful deputy town manager, she can find economy somewhere
where there's duplication in what we've already talked about and what we're about to talk about. So, we can maybe reduce the uh the quantity of time given the fact that we've already discussed these topics agnosium for the last few weeks.
uh with your with your wonderful organizational skills. Just give that some thought during the break because I saw the I saw the timeline on this and I thought to myself, what we've already just been through the last couple weeks, there's got to be some redundancies in there, but I will just challenge you to to to to wrestle with that, if you will.
Wrestle's the word of the day. >> Yes, sir. And the good news is is that um Angela was here when we had our initial discussion about the comp plan. So, she is in the know of the conversations that had happened and the concerns. Our focus for today is in crafting our mission, vision, and guiding principles, which is something
we need to do as the start of our strategic plan. And she has some potential um categories of goals so we can make that a little swifter. >> Beautiful. Thank you so much. >> You're welcome. >> All right. With that, we will adjourn our MMP meeting. We'll take about a 15minute break and we'll come back at 11
o'clock.