##VIDEO ID:jU739xO8NGY## all right good morning everyone we're going to call this meeting to order today is Monday February 3rd 2025 it is 9:00 a.m. all council members are present Town attorney town clerk Andy is unfortunately under the weather so he will not be here with us today if you please rise for the invocation followed by the Pledge of Allegiance we are thankful for this day that you have given us for its blessings its opportunities its challenges may we appreciate and use each day that is given to us we pray for strength and guidance for each day as it comes for each day's duties for each day's difficulties may we be challenged to give our best always and may we be assured of your presence with us amen amen I pledge of aliance to the flag of the United States America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liy and justice for all next is approval of the final agenda we have a couple of changes U we have to remove under the town attorney's items the settlement agreement do you want to say anything about that Nancy or um yeah we're just fine-tuning some of the details um and it'll come back to you as soon as we get that resolved okay and then we have to add at the end we'll add it if it's okay with my fellow council members there is a walkon for the parade for the Fort Mar Beach Women's Club that we can add under the town managers items if no one has any okay um other than that is there any other changes to the final agenda move to approve is amended okay got a motion by councelor King second seconded by councelor Woodson any further discussion all those in favor signify by saying I I opposed hearing none that motion carries unanimously next is public comment Adam k um I have one for Ron Fleming okay morning Ron morning Mr mayor council state I'm Ron flamy uh I live on delmare Avenue where Shamrock used to be first I'd like to thank councilman Safford and adhal for addressing my concerns about the kayak launch at the end of our street uh it was full of logs and it it's been cleaned up there's still work to be done but I mean I can actually use it now also on delmare and every street that's a weekly around there are no speed limit signs and in Lee County if there's not a sign it's 25 now after sitting in the traffic when people get to their street they go fast uh I would like youd consider a 15minute speed limit and more importantly speed bumps I mean there's lots of little kids and old people and uh cars could just they just go too fast U I'm in the program that the town and partnered with FEMA to increase the height of my house that paperwork is being held by the state of Florida feema has not yet received anything for it uh I know it's hard to believe I've contacted Senator Martin representative bana they both said that can't be so I sent them emails uh Florida says when we get it we will move quickly so if you could look into that I'd appreciate it U I'm sure you all saw the video of the Jeep and the truck down by beach bar yesterday I mean the police and our our people can't be everywhere at once but that has to stop you know it's and you know the the police or I'm sorry the deputies they can't get videos of it but because it wasn't witnessed by them there's nothing that can be done yesterday there were uh motorcycles golf carts on the sidewalks it's crazy you know it's the traffic the traffic is what it is but there has to be someone to enforce the rules something that I would like you also to look this will probably be an agenda item for you please e bikes on the sidewalks set a speed limit of five make them use their horns when you drive on a stero look at the curbs they're black with rubber because people aren't paying any attention and it's dangerous you know it's a safety item finally our uh the town's water uh treatment plant uh down beyond the pier have it painted in the beach collars when it gets repainted thank you thanks that's all I have signed up anyone else like to speak in public comment seeing them we'll close public comment next is local achievements and recognitions uh councelor King I'd uh like to take a minute and congratulate the friends of the mount house on their uh silver anniversary celebration uh it was a nice evening a fun event uh the caterer did a great job Jordan Webster the caterer the staff was just uh amazing the way they circulated around and and provided some very very delicious food uh the vocalist was Melissa Stokes and after talking with Ellen vau um they'll also be a part of the mount House's annual fundraiser party and that's coming up on March 29th um just a side note I don't know if the mayor's going to address the uh sounds like he's going to address the fort Meers Beach uh groundhog event um and you're just a lot of fun mayor I think we need to get you more money just so we can cover your costumes is that is that it that's it all right thanks vice mayor yes uh ditto on the mount house well said John uh the uh wanted to recognize this morning and it it maybe may I may keep this short because it sounds like I I just was talking with Chad this morning it sounds like the mayor's going to have him come up give us a little update on renourishment but I did want to recognize uh Andy and Frankie and our team as well as Chad shs Mike pfff who's our contractor uh consultant and his team the team that's out there on the water uh that's pumping in that sand we have literally leveraged uh as an as a as a town uh $50 million worth of sand paid for by the county the state and the federal government uh with about potentially not it may even be less than and this $2 million of town funds it was just an amazing coordinated effort uh we're all excited about the south end being uh completed and I think Chad's going to give us a little bit of an update there I know they started and then had a little bit of a challenge a mechanical challenge but they're they've got a plan and they're going to be back soon but it will be transformational and I think uh as as folks are concerned about this and that with the town I totally understand it but this is a major accomplishment for the town of Fort Myers Beach and it will trans trans form our Island and I just commend all those who are involved counc Woodson I don't want to steal your thunder it was great though so I'm just going to not say anything feel fear to steal oh no no no if you don't get it right though I'll chime in all right all right ccer Safford um yeah I want to thank thank the town staff the the new entrance here for boks looks incredible I mean that's talk about curb appeal I was really impressed when i p p this morning it's amazing how long that has been going on I think I think that sign was approved when I was still on borab yeah and at night it looks spectacular it's all lit up I sent a picture looks really good Mo your sorry at night it looks spectacular that's all I have go ahead uh FMB Phil yeah well ditto on the mount house I was unable to to make it to that but also the Art Association had a fundraiser at Clive Daniel this last week that was a great event um my wife and I happened to be looking for some things for the house and realized very quickly that it was probably a little outside of my budget so but it was a great event they raised quite a bit of money um some good artwork a couple local Aries were there that uh that they sold off some of their artwork so if you could support them they're obviously working to to build their new building back I think it was like $112,000 May yeah it was it was a good amount of money yeah there was quite a few people out there that that showed up and brave the traffic to get there so um congratulations to them the the groundhog event um one of our local residents the schoonover have been building a pool for what seems to be forever uh four years or five years I think and yesterday was there happened to be grounds Hogs day and it was their um their kickoff to their their pool party so they were raising some money for their local Africa I don't sorry I don't remember the name of off top of my head but it's a it's a nonprofit for African safari stuff so um a bunch of us were there um and of course it being Groundhogs Day we could not bring our own FMB Phil if you know who pux andani Phil is but we had we brought a a groundhog not a real one of course but uh and against my better judgment I was dressed up like those folks from pu andani and uh I'm happy to report though that uh I I agreed to take the plunge off their Grotto into their pool which I did so in a full tuxedo uh top hat but I did not take the groundhog with me but I'm happy report the groundhog did not see its shadow so winter is officially over in Southwest Florida and we will have 25 years at least of non- hurricane weather so happy to report that that with that that's it feel free to clap that's important did I miss anything Karen nope you did good okay the pool was N9 ft deep I was worried about that it it was he jumped off yep and I actually came right back up into my top hat so it was meant to be so FMB Phil hopefully your uh your wisdom is correct all right with that we'll move on to advisory committee's items reports and appointments we have an appointment for the cultural and environmental Learning Center Advisory Board cell cab this is the announcement part now we will vote and then we will appoint is that correct Nancy so we're going to um basically I think Amy usually gives a little intro as far as uh who has applied in uh and what we're going to do um we have two or two applicants Carolyn McAn and Lori wolf I believe Carolyn is asking to fill out the remainder of her uh late husband's term okay and then Lori just a regular applicant are either of the applicants here would like to come up come on up you want to come up and say anything or no now's your time to shine well just wait till you get to the mic and just identify yourself for us I would like to very you got to pull that mic down so we can hear you yeah I'm um still suffering the loss of course but I felt like it would be my honor to step up and attempt to serve in my husband's role until at least the end of his term which would be October 25 okay um I have assisted in supported and some of his projects and I'm very well aware of his dream to see the mountainous continue to be part of the Fort Myers Beach Community and vice versa the community be part of the mountainous so that's why I decided to apply all right thank you thank you anyone else Lori here I don't see all right we'll vote and then we'll announce is that how you want to do it okay okay so our town clerk she'll be announcing your vote and then tallying the votes and then you'll need to um make a formal uh take formal action to appoint the individual with the most okay uh first up is Karen Woodson voting for Carolyn maowen uh John King for Carolyn maowen Jim aderholt for Carolyn maowen also Scott Safford for Carolyn and Dan allers for Carolyn so with a vote of five to nothing Carolyn and that is the intent of council okay thank youly I'll try to up your expectations thank you Carol sorry for your loss yeah we're s all right is there a motion to approve the results for carollyn McCowen to fill the the SE seal cab seat so second a motion by vice mayor adalt seconded by councelor Safford any further discussion all those in favor signify by saying I I I opposed hearing done that motion carries unanimously next is the approval of the uh minutes for Council October 28th 2024 and Town Council of January 21st 20125 is there a motion to approve I don't have a um anything to change on that I'm just curious as to why October 28th is now just coming forward oh we we've been trying to catch up and close out 2024 um or 2024 and that's just one that slipped through in all those movements of meetings where we went from one week to the next week to the next week all the Hurricanes thank you so they just slipped through and we're just trying to get them finalized I appreciate that thank you I'll move to approve got a motion by councelor King a second second by councelor Woodson any further discussion all those in favor signify by saying I I I opposed hearing none that motion carries unanimously um if council is okay with it I'd like to have just so that they can get on to their normal days have Chad come up quick and address I believe what the vice mayor brought up and then also introduce our new blood plane manager Frankie she's here right Kelly okay if everybody's okay with that proceed out of order be great Chad come on you want to go first Kelly I guess so all right come on up you want to just give a little brief sure so uh we you know we contract with the Jacobs group on a few positions here in Community Development Department one of a very vital uh piece of our puzzle moving forward is our flood play manager uh currently Carl Thomas is still with the team he does remote work um out of the Atlanta area but he still is actively involved with our our FEMA cases moving forward uh we felt that the need was there not to overload him with that but also to have somebody inhouse that residents could reach out to and we could start building a familiarity with the community uh so we reached out to John dolmer and he brought us Kelly who's uh been with Marco Island and is very familiar with what we went through and what we need to do to get back so without further Ado thanks Kelly welcome welcome hello pull the mic up for us Kelly thanks all right um so a little bit about myself as he explained I was with Marco Island prior to coming here tell us who you are first though oh Kelly defedes the flood plane administrator now for uh town of Fort Meers Beach uh I was with Markland for nine years so I've been through Ian Irma Helen Milton all of the above um we weren't merely damaged I didn't realize how lucky we were until I came here um as he explained my goal is to meet with people go over the rules and regulations and just it's easier to sit down and go over everything with them and get us to where we need to be Kelly just just for folks to be clear even though you're working for the Consulting Group you will be physically located here in Fort Meers Beach and available to the public correct wel yes we welcome walk-ins um I think I was just the my contact information was just put out there on social media uh I could do teams meetings but my goal is to hopefully meet and introduce myself to a lot of the contractors and just educate and go over what is required Kelly since you may not get this microphone very often tell tell folks what a flood plane man who who would be likely to contact a flood plane manager and and why uh anyone who is looking to do any alterations constructions you'll want to um come to the flood plane administrator first to make sure it can be done and what you're proposing um is allowed through the Florida building code I'll go over what is required through the CFR 44 which is the code of federal regulations through the um Florida building code to our local code so there's a lot of rules and regulations that a lot of people have to adhere to and unless you've constructed or worked in a special flood Hazard area you wouldn't be familiar with the requirements and so I'm here to educate help and if there's a will there's a way we'll get it done it's very helpful thank you and Kelly will you be doing the reviews as well for the projects that come through you you'll be the one stamping them for approval correct or denial yes however okay and that's why I encourage you to come and meet with me if you've got any form of projects coming through prior to submitting any form of application come directly to me and we'll get everything hopefully addressed prior to submittal so there's not a lot of requires res submit that is what I'm hoping to get from a lot of contractors and applicants oh um I I can't see into the future but something tells me your calendar is about to become very and and that's that's good it's I want to be your friend and I want to get it done and we're going to get it done correctly all right any questions for Kelly how do you spell your last name it's d e capital f e d e r i i is in s all right thank you so much and just to be clear on on one little item I mean Carl is still actively engaged with us so all the projects that have come through and Carl's currently reviewed on obviously he's bringing Kelly in in up to speed on a lot of those but if he's the one who's looking at that project he is the one that's ruling on that project uh we're not bringing somebody in to supersede what Carl has already started correct so though that that cannot be done but um moving forward it's going to be a great piece that's a good clarification so I'm going to be working on anything that hasn't well starting a good starting point is to work on brand new projects that are coming through whether it's alteration new construction so there's not two different flood administrator is making two different comments on it so he'll finish his reviews and I'll continue to take new reviews that come through okay so just to be clear just anybody that's already submitted and has worked with Carl will continue to work through Carl throughout the process any new ones coming in will'll go through you correct okay Scott any questions I do not John no questions welcome and thank you thank you welcome thank you Chad he morning everyone ch shoots uh environmental manager for the Town Fort Meers Beach uh so just addressing what the vice mayor said uh just got a message from fdp we did make the cut for what we submitted on Friday bringing us up to uh 8.3 million in free money that we've gotten from the hrr GP that's addition in addition to the initial 1.8 um from that same um grant program uh that we used to build the north of stero burm so that's over $10 million in free money that is uh uh been subsidizing that initial $2 million that we uh initially budgeted for the beach project so that's coming down um the next portion of the project 100% of the construction is paid for on the south end by uh an additional um they call them LFR Local Government funding requests Grant uh so that's a $14 million Grant and the southern portion is 100% paid for uh by that Grant and then whatever is left in the central section will be uh coming um out of that $4 million Grant but the central section will be uh a cost share of uh in round figures 15% for the town um so having said all that uh booster 4 did go down this weekend so another uh mechanical error or mechanical um issue uh that we're having uh which is why the folks on the south end are scratching their head why aren't we getting uh the uh the sand down there they are working on that and hopefully by midweek we will be pumping uh again on that South End uh in the interim they are building the beach on the central end uh basically right across the street from us right now working their way towards uh Beach Caper and as soon as they are building on the south end again um uh we will let youall know uh and again anticipate that by midweek uh we have been uh working on contingency plans for months now um You always you know just like we permit lots of options we want to think ahead and make sure our project's not going to get uh uh jammed up so we've been working on uh incidental take permits um with the FWC met with FWC Staff last week and uh that permit is just to allow us to work within 300 ft of one of those uh protected species um we're not proposing taking out any Nest or destroying any Nest or putting slurry over any eggs um it's going to just be what they consider harassment non-injured deterrence um to get the project done um at the end of the day everyone agrees that we're going to be creating uh a lot of habitat beneficial habitat and this is overall a a big net plus for uh the bird rooky down there so um we're all you know FWC our engineer and town staff working together um to uh make that happen we will be having daily monitors bird monitors um running the routes uh from February 15th uh in addition to that the contractor also has their uh environmental uh who does the turbidity will also be doing uh routes and once approved doing the non-interest deter deterrence to uh uh mitigate any impacts to the shore birds down there while we get our project done um also happening this week uh an additional contingency is we're going to be trucking in 30,000 cubic yards to the south end of the South segment uh and the purpose of that that's the more sensitive area for bird nesting so approximately 1,000 Shore feet uh Shoreline feet of uh Beach from the Sun Caper moving North uh we'll get 30,000 CU yards to give us an extra buffer from that uh more uh dense nesting area down south so that'll give us an extra buffer FWC was very pleased with that um and uh uh please everyone just down south rest assure we're doing um whatever we can to uh get this project built before next hurricane season so so Chad if I could just to sum up what you I think just said I don't want to put words in your mouth but it sounds like you're working with FWC to get some additional time uh during bird nesting season being sensitive obviously to the habitat so so if we run into that hard deadline we might be able to go beyond that deadline in order to complete the task assuming we take these various steps to be sensitive to the nesting is that is that a fair characterization yes sir um FWC didn't even feel that you know the the ITP incidental take permit was not even necessarily be needed um just because that habitat is so you know it's low elevation it's just a different Beach not a lot of habitat um from all the wash overs we had but um I'd rather be safe than sorry and just have that in case there's a nest you know on that upper you know Runway or somewhere that's within the beach is not even 300 ft wide so any Nest anywhere in there could jeopardize us pushing through so so so folks who were concerned about that hard deadline that hard stop deadline can take a little bit of a a sigh of relief and that the work will be able to continue on assuming we take all these appropriate steps to be sensitive to the habitat yeah I'm optimistic that the uh uh regulatory folks over at um FWC are going to work with us and we'll figure out how to get it done I know the folks in the area are really looking forward to that stand so thanks for all your efforts yeah you're welcome thank so wait Chad I have a question I don't um a woman approached me yesterday she uh leonarda arms the one closest to the water and everything and I didn't have answers for so maybe you could reach out to whoever their um Condo Association person is they just have questions and they were they were I think they'll appreciate what you just said about not that hard stop they're worried about the fact that they won't get done in time before they have to stop and Y that kind of thing so if you could just maybe reach out to that building yes they have three buildings over there you never know which one's coming from but I'll uh I'll reach out it's the one yeah it's the one closest to the water that had to put in the um wall and all that kind of thing yes ma'am thank you you're welcome anything else for Chad Scot I really like your your updates every Friday on social media thanks great great job Nicole I don't think Nicole heard that Nicole Nicole everybody really likes the chat updates on Friday about the renourishment keep those coming yeah keep them coming John anything good job thank you you're welcome thanks Chad thanks for coming in at last minute sir all right we'll move on the consent agenda we have five items all extensions of the local state of emergency for Hurricane Ian Adalia tropical storm Debbie Helen and Milton is there a motion to approve the consent agenda I will move to approve the consent agenda second seconded by vice mayor adalt any further discussion roll call all right mayor allers is an i vice mayor I councelor King hi ccor Woodson hi ccor Safford hi motion carries unanimously there are no items to be removed next is our public hearings the next two items the third one is not CL Jal correct no there's actually four is there four to them this one somewhere would you like me to two three oh you're right sorry I forgot about the second one next four items on our agenda are public hearings for review of various land use requests for the benefit of the public Please be aware the that these items are quas judicial in nature our attorney will further explain thank you mayor so zoning re uh revisions your four items is basically um a resoning uh a variance for Lon Kai a special exception for Lon Kai a s six-month review for outdoor consumption so these are all quasi judicial in nature and then this requires that our public hearing comply with procedural requirements that have been established in Florida law as well as in Our Land Development code so these quasi judicial proceedings they're less formal than proceedings before circuit court but they are more formal than the remainder of our meeting and we will follow basic standards of due process that require certain notices the application of the correct uh standards and decisions your decisions made on competent substantial evidence that's presented to you either in written documents or through oral testimony your job is to evaluate the testimony and the information for each of these four items and then draw a conclusion regarding whether the criteria in the Land Development code or state law um as may be applicable has been satisfied so pure speculation or opinion that is not based on competent facts cannot legally be considered by the Town Council in evaluating an agenda item testimony by professionals who are qualified as experts in a particular area has been considered to be competent evidence by the Florida courts as well as testimony by neighbors and residents who have fact-based information such as minutes surveys engineering reports or their testimony that is based on their personal personal knowledge and information the town's decision is final if a decision of approval is not obtained or if a TI vote results uh from a motion to approve or a motion to deny then the matter being considered is denied unless a majority of the council members present in voting agree by motion before the next agenda item is called to take some other action in lie of the denial such other action may be moved or seconded by any member regardless of his or her vote so if the Town Council decides to deny an application or request the reason for the denial needs to be stated in the motion the denial of a quasi judicial matter must not be B based on a determination of public support or opposition to an application the reason for the denial cannot be arbitrary discriminatory or unreasonable and should be based on a lack of competent substantial evidence in support of one of the criteria so denial of an application or request is denial with prejudice unless the council States otherwise the difference is if an application is denied with prejudice no similar application for a rezoning special exception or variance um can be resubmitted or initiated for a 12-month period however if the denial is without prejudice um this will not prevent an application for a different resoning uh which in the opinion of staff is substantially different so uh members of the public if you intend to speak please keep this in mind and when you come forward we ask that you state your name clearly for the record whether or not you've been sworn in and your qualifications or interest in the matter so for purposes of efficiency um we would like to go ahead and dispose of a few what we call housekeeping matters I need to ask the town clerk have all agenda items been properly advertised and noticed uh yes they have okay um and also at this time if any council member has a conflict of interest that would prohibit them from voting any on any of these four items this is an appropriate time to make that disclosure so that we can assure that we have a quorum present for the review of the items C Safford I do not counc Woodson I do not adol none councelor King none I do have one with the CPD request from Pink Shell I have a business agreement with them so I will fill out my form eight with the town clerk okay thank you um at this time it would also be appropriate to go ahead and ask anyone who is present today at this um public hearing if you intend to provide testimony if you would please stand raise your right hand and be sworn in by the town clerk that would include public comment in case you didn't hear Amy if you're going to be in public comment you have to be sworn in as well okay if you all raise your right hand do you swear or affirm that the testimony that you are about to give is the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth all right all parties have been sworn okay first is our second reading and public hearing on a proposed ordinance entitled an ordinance of the town of Fort Meers Beach Florida approving approving with conditions are denying the commercial plan development CPD Zoning for 6.02 Acres of the property located at 275 322 Estero Boulevard 200 EST sterile Boulevard 192 EST sterile Boulevard common element only 142 EST stero Boulevard 17 171 through 191 Estero Boulevard 251 to 281 Estero Boulevard and 309 Estero Boulevard generally identified as strap numbers 24-4 6-23 DWI -007 d. 028a 2446 d23 w-7 .34 24-4 6-23 wi-7 0.029 244-4623 w100 7.33 02446 d23 w-7 .320 24-4 6-23 wi-37 00.00 CE and 24-4 6-23 wi- z41 00.00 CE in Fort Meers Beach to allow expansion of the existing Pink Shell Resort to include a new 40 unit Resort Hotel two additional Hotel units in the White Sands building and two standalone guest structures providing for other CL clarifications as necessary providing for conflicts of law scrier errors severability and providing for an effective date if any Town council member has had any expart communication to disclose please let us know the subject discussed and the identity of the person group or entity with whom the communication took place and correspondence that you received or observations made of the site councilor King uh as I recall some emails have come in lately vice mayor uh nothing's changed the first reading except I have had two additional emails in opposition counc Wilson since the first reading I have had conversations with both the owner and the operations director of pink shell and I received the same emails I if thank you Karen I I did have a conversation with the owner of the pink shell as well Scott I have not had any conversations but I to have received a few emails mostly negative okay the um the applicant is present with their their Council and having heard these disclosures um I need to ask my Town Council um are you able to come to this meeting today with a open mind willing to hear the evidence and testimony that's presented to you and you have not had any preconceived uh decision on this matter Scott nothing preconceived now I am vice mayor I am as well on screen open-minded if we could ask the appli attorney if she has any questions regarding any of the ex parte disclosures maybe I do not have any questions but thank you appreciate it thanks okay S pro has been qualified as an expert already by This Town Council based on her education and experience has been accepted as an expert in the field of land use planning and development in the town of Fort Meers Beach are there any other individuals who would like to be qualified as an expert witness on behalf of the applicant at this time everybody's already been okay has the property owner applicant seen a copy of the agenda backup materials from staff they're nodding their head yes okay go ahead Sarah good morning Sarah proped with Community Development jbo LLC owner of the Pink Shell Resort is proposing a CPD to include 6.05 Acres of existing pink shell property and structures and new properties that have been purchased by the ownership and proposing new structur and amendments to existing structures the applicant proposes a 40 unit Resort Hotel on the Bayside of Estero Boulevard on the parcel closest to about Edge Point Park it proposes to be a it is proposed to be a six-story building and 60 ft over base flood elevation the proposed CP CPD Amendment also includes uh two proposed single unit guest structures and two additional hotel rooms in the White Sands Hotel uh there are seven deviations associated with this uh a deviation from LDC 10416 D2 uh table 10-8 requiring a type-c buffer with a wall when a proposed commercial parking lot is next to a multif family residential property to allow a type-c buffer with no wall to allow visibility to the redesigned public Boardwalk on the marina property a deviation to 34645 table 34-2 which specifies that in the CR zoning District No building or structure shall be placed closer than 20 ft from a rear property line to allow a 15t rear setback this will be the location of a single guest unit structure in the CPD area number two that's in your packet uh which is where the single Cottage and duplex were previously no located on the beach side uh a deviation from 34645 table 34-2 that specifies in the CR zoning District No building or structure may be clo placed closer than 20 ft to a side setb to allow a 10-ft side setback on the East and a side setback of 7.5 to the West this is in the CPD area number three in your packet and the proposed location of a single guest unit that is on the property where a single family residence was previously located on the Bayside next to the marina uh deviation thir from 34645 table 34-2 that requires CR zoning District in the CR zoning District No building or structure shall be placed closer uh to then 20 ft to a side property line to allow a 10- foot side setback on the west side of the property where the proposed uh 40 unit Boutique Hotel is a budding bage Park the applicant is proposing to meet the 20 foot side setback on the East this is in CPD area number four in your packet a deviation from 30 34645 table 34-2 which requires properties and CR zoning districts to not place a structure or building closer than 25 ft to a water body to allow a 10-ft rear step back in the CPD area number four for the proposed 40 unit Hotel uh deviation from 34675 B that requires a maximum height of 30 ft above base flood elevation and no more than three stories to allow a height of 60 ft above base flood elevation and six stories five over parking uh deviation from 3 for 1803 A1 that establishes hotel and motel guest units to be substituted for dwelling units setting an allowable intensity by equivalency factors up to 2.0 per density unit in this case and the mixed residential land use category the uh increase they're requesting is a factor of 6.7 for the entire Resort the CPD should be reviewed per LDC 3485 B and C and 34262 deviations must be approved approved with modifications or rejected upon finding uh upon findings in 34264 um I would note that in a conversation last week there were some um some of the items that the applicant wanted to provide as public benefit but were not appropriate as zoning um conditions they are proposing to put into a development agreement which would be completed after uh if you choose to approve this CPD request um so they would include that as an additional condition to the conditions that are in your packet okay questions for Sarah John not at this time vice mayor just elaborate a little bit on that last point you just made Sarah um so when they spoke when some of the items that have been suggested as public benefits um like the pump out um some of the um uh driving uh don't rent a car requirements things like that they aren't really appropriate to include as conditions in a um CPD because they're not enforceable by zoning but they can be put into a development agreement which can have more wide ranging um allowances in so it's more of a i I know that when we had spoken about it it could be a development agreement or a covenants and restrictions it wouldn't be something that zoning would specifically uh require something that we would say like before you get your Co you have to do X Y and Z because we wouldn't have a way to enforce business practices so as we we're going to take a set set pink shell aside for a second but as we take a look at the comp plan and other policy considerations going forward as we as we have a broad swath of different public benefits it sounds like some of those public benefits are difficult to put into the confines of a traditional CPD is that something we should be looking at to to try to accommodate for those who want to use a CPD in the future not necessarily um in in the conversation so uh Nancy and Amy and I met um Amy from uh the applicant side discussing what how this could be accommodated they want to make these promises they want to make sure that these benefits are provided to the town um and we are thinking at this time that a development agreement of some kind is probably the most appropriate way but it would be possible to uh record covenants and restrictions on properties um so we are looking at what that might look like it just can't be done in that specific I no again pink shell aside I'm thinking about the future yeah I mean something we need to be thinking about yes um I've already had this conversation with the applicant for the Neptune because some of the public benefits that they wanted to provide aren't appropriate to go forward in in that format it's it's not appropriate in a CPD so putting it forward in another I think we do that's I I appreciate the the the how you've handled it here I think going forward we do want to create a dynamic where somehow it could coincide with a CPD process I don't want to dis incent people from utilizing a CPD so some just policy Food For Thought in the future but thank you thanks for the answer it helps me y of course can I comment very briefly I I know I talk too much but um the development agreement itself can kind of be viewed as a road map and the development agreement sets forth what the understanding of all the parties is um sometimes in a development agreement you will have requirements such as go get a CPD rezoning uh go get a subdivision uh plat approved go do this but those other things are separate proceedings so right now now um you have before you a CPD but the condition would be that we create this type of road map um with enforcement opportunities I think in this instance it makes perfect sense I'm just thinking about in the future we want to think about that as as as we as we as we take a look at this whole puzzle but but thank you yep H Woodson questions for Sarah not yet thank you Scott no uh she clarified my question than sh thank you Amy good morning again council members for the record Amy too with bretzel I represent the applicant as you all know you've seen me a couple times already um so we're gonna try to keep this much quicker for you guys today you've already heard a lot from us so um there we go um you know you're familiar with the project team you have Bob boyin and bill wulus you have Fred dropic with rvi Mike Shey and Carlos Rios with MK architecture and Ted with t Transportation they are Transportation Consultants um again as Sarah just outlined the request is to rezone um 6.02 acres to CPD um to allow for a total of 239 guest units including that 40 unit Boutique Hotel um reconstructing two the Standalone guest units that were previously in space occupied by the spa converting one oh two Standalone guest units that were previously destroyed I'm sorry and then converting one floor of the white sand Spa to uh two additional hotel rooms um allowing for a maximum of six stories which does include that ground level parking with a maximum height of 60 ft measured from design flood which would be a total of 75 ft 6 in and then of course a flooor area ratio of 1.2 which includes the ground level parking so we don't need a deviation for that and to give you a brief overview of the presentation today um first and foremost we're going to go through the conclusion that we reached as far as that amended resolution z-- z7a we are going to discuss development timing which has already been discussed in terms of the developers agreement um moing field pump out and stormm water valuation introducing the draft public and special benefits agreement which is that developers agreement that we want to make sure that we have and then of course a summary conclusion um so just quickly I will note I know you've gotten an email either this morning or last night with regard to the amended resolution so we just wanted to hit on this one more time that email doesn't actually contain any new information um I'm happy to discuss you know any questions you have with regard to this issue in Greater detail but we've already we already talked about it quite a bit with you guys last time so I won't delve into that in great detail unless you have any questions um again development timing discussion and how this all plays into that development agreement um the reason we'd like to have that developers agreement is you know we had proposed some draft condition language that was substantially different than what you have in front of you and Exhibit C today and the reason it's substantially different is that actually what we proposed is a lot more restrictive and as Sarah and Nancy mentioned we did have a discussion with them last week about this and we thought that the best way to do this would be via a development agreement we really want to make sure that this is clean that we have the intent and the terms of this you know properly memorialized so that there's no question down the line as to what we were supposed to be doing or not doing um and with that if you have any questions I'm happy to take them or I can hand it over to Fred Scott any questions I I missed that email did you guys get it I got it got it I can send it to you Scott if you could you please yeah would you include me on that too Amy I don't I don't seen that as well so I believe the email she's referring to was from kathlyn and I don't know how to say the last name Schultz maybe um that was received or sent last night at 11:06 p.m. I got it and she makes um several arguments and there is a attachment to it um discussing primarily the um the status of z0000 z7a we can come back to you Scott yeah no I'm good with everything thank you pleas mayor want come back to you a chance to read when you when you said you tightened up the language utilizing the development agreement and making it even more restrictive can you give an example of that absolutely so for example one of the public benefits that we talked about was M um planting and maintaining the Landscaping along the Estero Boulevard RightWay for the length of the CPD so some of the condition language that we had proposed would be for example to mandate that we performed and completed that installation by the end of this year on the Gulf side and then for the Bay Side of course we would just you know time that in concurrent um in conjunction with or prior to of the boutique hotel parcel so there's not really a great way to memorialize how we would do that in the zoning but we want to make sure that there's time frames on this so that you guys aren't looking up one day and going well I wonder when they're actually going to do this work that they said that they would do so that they could get their zoning approval so this is really just to firm up those timelines and to better you know confirm what our rights and responsibilities are what the town's rights and responsibilities are and really setting some better time frame so that there's absolutely no ambiguity down the line thank you of course counc k um I don't know if this is the time or the place or who wants to address it but some of the emails we've received have talked about how uh in the past uh those benefits that you're bringing forward were supposed to have already been done by now and haven't been such as uh let's see the path along the B um I have not seen that email I don't think but um the applicant can better speak to this um during during our presentation but it's my understanding that a lot of what we have committed to doing is already there we're just committing to expanding it and finalizing certain things that maybe um should be expanded and finalized thank you yeah here whenever just a second I just want make hold on Bill I just want to make sure Scott doesn't have any questions for I'm right now I'm good okay thank you I think I get it Bill W Willis operations manager for the pink shell um answer the question that pathway was all completed unfortunately Ian took that all away um it hasn't fully gone back because we're in this application because we want to enhance that whole pathway so that would be going back our goal is to enhance it with the new pathway but it was completed right after our approval back in 07 07 okay thank you CR good morning Fred robick from RBI landscaping and architecture or landscape architecture and planning um I think that first uh I want to have uh Bob uh boy can come up and speak to number two on that list the development timing discussion I think he has a few words he wants to say about that and some general words as well then I'll pop up afterward okay thanks morning Bob good morning um well I want to start by thanking all of you guys for uh your support last meeting U Mr Mayor Mr vice mayor counselors uh we we have uh I had a conversation with the councelor Woodson and with the the vice mayor and because I really want to go deeper on the discussion that was started here and and I don't think you know that was a very long meeting and I was concerned about making it even longer and more painful but the uh the discussion I I shared was that you know we're in the real estate business and and you all are well familiar with the various types of real estate you've got here on the island but I will say as a developer what you have to do for retail or office or a multifam or hotel each project you really got to look at differently we're going to be very comparable to Neptune we're going to face the same challenge as they are uh and the two things that came up at the last meeting were really about timing and uh of of when the project could start and then timing of when we would begin laying the foundation for for work um Hotel development by its Nature has to be sequential and I say that as an example to say let's look at the things that are going to be required of a lender uh a uh environmental report I've got an environmental report on this piece of dirt but it's 20 years old now I know nothing has gone on on that location that would impair it but the lenders don't care they're going to want a fresh set of uh eyes on it and a fresh report and the same would be true for hotel feasibility uh we've got resources the industry does that will survey uh a comp set and in our case it would look like Margaritaville it would have looked like the Neptune and the Windam and and uh the Marriott and and you take a group of those hotels and they will spit back to you here's what the market occupancy and radar with that the lender says okay I'm willing to underwrite this risk but I I have to let the market tell us when the lights going from Orange to green and so that's that's just the reality of what we face as trying to you know build a hotel product um the uh Spa Suites is just as an example we have a design for the spa Suites it's four or five years old and I and I can't build it today the way it was drawn just because of zoning changes not zoning code code changes and so we're going to have to go back find the architect the architect is of course now out of business so we've got to find a new architect to get engaged and and that's why you don't want to start things too soon we want to do it at the right time uh but we aren't here to talk to you about this because we've got nothing better to do this is an expensive effort as you know to get up here and and pitch a project uh we want to get going on this as fast as we can but we don't control that flow meter uh so uh you know I mentioned last time when I was here that we we have a concern about some of the decrepit real estate that you know we're confronted with we went back and did a little research we've lost six weddings in 20 24 that we can identify and it's because people you know Brides would come by and go ooh I got to drive my guests by that thing and so we we do want to beg your uh continuing effort to get these old buildings taken down looking at Raw land is not a negative looking at some of the stuff that you know was under way but not yet gone it's a real negative to the recovery of the island and so we're losing money and the town's losing tax base and we want to get that uh you know expedited as fast as possible and I'll just close by saying for 26 years we've made promises and we've kept them and so look at what we've done look at our actions uh not at our promises so thank you thank you B all right well thank you all for this time I'm going to go over a few things really that were in response to questions that were raised last time so we were asked um to bring some values to a few of the public benefits one being the more moring field pump out and the other one being a storm water uh the storm water uh easement area uh that is under the Bayside parking lot so uh these aren't real complicated numbers but I think these put some idea to what it would take if the town wanted to do this on their own so the drainage system um now it is just an it is an easement over our property and then the dra system was installed and maintained by the town but it if you had if you needed that piece of property obviously it would be based on the value per acre so it's 055 acre easement over that parking lot that has the underwater storm uh drainage system that keeps the north end at least greatly improved from flooding um under normal storm events um so if it was 10 million an acre it' be 5.5 million is a value of the of the property if the town had to purchase its own property so this was done originally the easan are area was granted there was no uh um compensation to Pink Shell or anything like that it was just done because it was the right thing I mean it helped them helped the North End of the island it was just a win-win for everybody um then the moing pumping uh moring field pump out um this is a so what we're doing here is just outline the equipment clost uh cost the plumbing um dot cost and the sewer hookup the big cost would be that this has to be loow located in a very specific spot it has to be a waterfront on the bay um or a canal with access to the sewer system and space for a dock um you know and the equipment also require annual maintenance etc etc so there's a lot of things to that so you'd have to the big cost on there is the town would have to find that piece of land near a neighbor that isn't going to be very upset about the pump out actions happening several times a week or or more than several times sometimes um so these are the the the cost of the equipment and everything and then total adds up to about $1.6 million um with in that uh benefit so um again pink shell is not asked for compensation not asking to um any type of recompensation for that um it's just something that they have the equipment they they do that anyway and so that's just a a benefit for the town that they're willing to put in the conditions and put into an agreement um in perpetuity but with limits on so you know if the town decides to do their own then obviously they don't they won't need to do that anymore some it's just some of those wordings like that but um you know to uh cover everybody on the fancy lawyer word of indemnification you know of you know if there's people working from the town that's working on those docks I mean there should be something in an agreement that says we're not suing you you're not going to sue us we're all covered you know under our own responsibilities that would be another example of why we wanted to go with developers agreement to really put these things in place there's just got to be some legal protections that lead to no confusion down the road um and and and part of our heart behind that uh oops it's there whoops sorry part of our heart behind that is is that we see a a problem and some of it's being highlighted by the emails and everything that continues to be brought up about what was what was transferred on that other side why it was described as 3.2 Acres but yet there was a parcel included in that description that wasn't even owned by the property at the end and then in a public forum there was a covenant agreement recorded that incl that included just the Bayside parcel and not and the 3.2 description wasn't accurate so it looked like that was corrected after there so all we have to go forward on is that final zoning approval in the recorded Covenant that the legal description captured so and and it was very specific to the density transfer if there was another if there was a followup instead of just a a recorded agreement on the side and then a public hearing to record or to um make the legal description accurate to what was actually being done if that developers agreement was a follow-up or part of that hearing there wouldn't be any confusion today because it would be exactly spelled out word for word so all we can go on is what was approved and what was there we believe absolutely we have the right to build on this piece of parcel we do not have the right to build on the other Bas side parcel where the view corridors are and we acknowledge that and understand it so looking at that there was just a part of me that was as a planner up here and and saying that uh you know and taking the oath and promising these public benefits and I'm looking at that we gave conditions of approval to you know to show that we are trying to move forward with with this yet a number of those things we can't include in the conditions of approval in the zoning resolution so now they're floating out there as just a part of the the staff report as part of our presentation as part of the meeting minutes but there is no I mean there's a lack of some teeth in there and there's a lack of accountability on both sides you know who what what can you enforce what do we have to do when do we have to do it um so that was our heart behind this is like now we really feel like we got to clean this up in order to do this right and 5 years down the road or 10 years down the road and something comes up here and there's some changes that the pink shell may make you know someday then we can look back at this go oh it's very clear everybody's knows exactly where we stand and I know we're there's two things we're talking about we're doing the CPD and then there's a development agreement process that can be a standalone process in place of the CPD but this is pretty this is pretty common we're doing this in two other uh jurisdictions where we go through this the the CPD zoning that's always more General and then we follow up 90 days 120 days later with a developers agreement that spe starts to specify how utilities are going to get who's paying for what how long's that gonna this how long is a certain thing going to be offered putting the time frames and responsibilities there um just make making it clear who's paying for what is a lot of the the idea and the timing is another big part of it so we wanted to go forward with that as an addition process after the general zoning approval to just continue to be a good neighbor and to make this less confusing in the long run so with that the problem to solve that I think is there is that public and special benefits are not appropriate for inclusion as a zoning condition that's what staff has opined on um so what protection does the town have that the promises made will be Promises Kept that was a concern of ours um so the goal is to memorialize the timing and scope of the public and special benefits presented during zoning to protect the pink shell and the town and create an enforceable agreement so I do have now this is obviously not what you're trying to approve today but I wanted to show but I wanted to hand out the initial draft that of the public and special benefits language I'm just going to hit the highlights of this this is not for the vote today but I want to get this in front of you to start reviewing because we'll be right back with this as soon as we can get this language agreed on between staff and this and the town attorney um and so this will give you that uh you know early look at what we were intending and what we were thinking but again I understand this is not part of the approval of zoning today would that be okay if I hand this out ncy yeah it that that's fine um I have not had the benefit of sitting down with Amy to go over that um again we we did have a a long conversation um to try to figure out what we needed to do to best provide for an enforcement mechanism of some of the representations that are are being made so if you want to take a look at it and give me some feedback that would be great I have not reviewed this is it I guess my only question would be think I don't know how much I can say or not say because I can't but is it is it something that if it's not going to be used decision we're done with it then well no because it would be the basis of a um condition that would be added oh got it okay yeah the the condition on the list of conditions we're wanted to put or request that number one on there would be that we follow up under a certain amount of days with the with a a developers agreement codifying those things so the quick the quick highlights of this the the there's like a through K I believe and the um some of them are pretty simple some of them lesson there'll be some work on the on the the the language so a is the Bas side boardwalk and walkway and park areas um that were formerly under well that are currently under a covenant agreement Boutique Hotel building um on construction and of course these are our suggestions as they said this hasn't been reviewed but this is what we're trying to offer uh trying to get the discussion going with this um moring field pump out address indemnification um and protection for everybody that would be working on those docks um and an end date if the town creates its own pump out and doesn't no longer need needs our services um storm water codify the easement that exists for storage under Bayside parking this is uh letter D um that's the easements already there this would just be putting it this in in an agreement that is consistent and one place to find this that we don't have to look around for it uh Resort provided employee vans so this is a we specify the number of Vans allow for changes to the program so really we we have no problem with this the condition to hold us to this but um program changes or doesn't exist anymore then um we weren didn't want to have to be able the one to create the program in order to meet our developers agreement um and same with these other things the pre pre-arrival Cony Air Service the water taxi slip um you know all we will say is allow use for the slip um if the service is created you know because it's it's that's still a work in progress and the other features that we have green lodging Turtle conery day passes could I stop you on that real quick and maybe bill you could come up with this come up for this one I I I really appreciate the the water taxi uh it's really water faery we don't use it's it's a taxi is a different concept but the for the water Ferry that's been in discussion uh with certainly emulating from a private sector but there's an opportunity for a public private partnership potentially certainly the town has expressed interest in helping and being uh supportive of that effort and obviously as we all Wrestle with the traffic nightmare that is um um what does that mean uh that language mean from a practical standpoint bill you run the Mariner maybe you know this I just are will you leave that slip free for the ferry when it comes it might come every half hour it might come every hour um does that mean you there would be no charge for the fery to utilize obviously it would be a benefit to your facility because a lot of folks would come and have dinner and use your facilities and I think it's a win-win for everybody I'm just curious how you envision that and is there a way we could kind of clarify that language a little bit more sure uh again bill whiteus um the pink shell um our our vision was is that it would be an open slip um our we we staff um from uh 7 to 5 so somebody would be down there when the boat come in help tie up help people get off um you know we would provide that service there would be no charge for the boat to come in and and out we would just you know accept them and make sure everybody gets on and off the boat um without you know any injury and direct them also yeah and then after five what would happen after five um that that would be I mean that's right now where we we staff our Marina would you have liability issues if if the if the fery itself no I mean I wouldn't have an issue with FY coming in after hours uh in the in the evening either it just I think for for an agreement though we would probably state that we would have staff there to assist between those hours okay but but coming in uh it's all lighted but um you know I think um you know it just comes down to how long what is the time frame of the ferry and yeah we just don't nobody knows yeah but we do think it will run in the evening obviously sure sure I I think too uh just if Amy could clarify that language too for the development agreement just about the potential for public private partnership and or E either public or private or public private partnership also the fact that it would be no cost just some of just some additional uh just clarifying language because I think it's a really a big deal for the island yeah we can definitely do that so we'll clarify that this is intended to be part of a public private partnership a a greater public possible Poss potential certainly we'll be we'll be we'll be partnering with them but in what capacity nobody knows yeah yeah and and we'll work with Nancy also just to make sure that you know the language is acceptable to you guys as well great um so you you know you should be you should also be seeing that language and approving it so so you'll definitely um we'll we'll do what we can to get there and if if you need to make changes we can but you answer the major question was that that the slip would always be made available for the ferry when it comes and I think that's that's important I'm sorry Bob yeah I just wanted to jump in if I could on that because I had the discussion at the beginning with Ben Friedland and I mean this is a germ of an idea I mean it's very nent yep we like it and you know we we had talked broadly about you know maybe you know helping funding a partnership of some sort but that's like how long's a piece of string I mean you know we don't know uh and and uh that's where the the idea of the water what are we calling it water fairy uh comes from and so you know we're here to support and and cheer and but making our dock available that's pretty easy for us to agree to that's helpful thank you all right with that I didn't have any more to present I have all my backup slides and everything so if we get into the weeds and some other areas we can pull those up and discuss them but I don't want to belabor this without just heading to the questions and hearing from the public but real quick I would like to just do the S summary of the what we believe are the project merits so one we believe this is B this the approval of this is beneficial to Town's inventory rental and hotel units which we've we we've noted are below 50% of what they were pre- storm contribute significantly to the recovery of the tax base and the local economy uh public benefits provide valuable services such as the moring field pump out the water Ferry slip the storm water storage beautification of the North End Landscaping and park like View Corridor and Boardwalk um the special benefits include addressing alternative transportation Environmental conditions or Environmental Conservation uh and Community Services the value of these benefits range near a million dollars outside of the valuations of things that are already in place uh with ongoing costs the responsibility of the resort to the full extent that we we put that in writing in the developers agreement so conditioned to create a developers agreement to codify these public and special benefits so that down the road if there's something that somebody says isn't happening there's a way to know that exactly what should have been happening and a way to enforce that we've earned the support of the neighbors you know at one point we had a uh a per another attorney with one of the neighbors here that that was granted standing and it was in opposition to this who is no longer here and if I do believe that there was some uh something in the in the sitting out there in the research that could shut this whole thing down they probably would have found it so we're glad that uh that we were able to work out with them and there today there's no formal opposition from our direct neighbors I think there's probably some condo owners owners but the boards uh for our our neighbors are on board with the request that we have before you today um the uh use of the scale we believe is compatible with the neighborhood so the height the the the scale of what we're asking is very similar to what is across the street um the project meets F and parking requirements um this is a big deal I know all the almost all the requests in front of you are asking for a a deviation from one of those or both of those um we meet the F and the parking requirements um and then staff supports conditional approval obviously based on the list of conditions as we have them in front of you today um so we believe that's a real positive that this has been vetted with competent and substantive evidence that um we agree and the staff and uh an outs are in agreement so that is the the summary of this and we're here for questions and to hear from the public questions um I just want to add I I I I love the numbers but you I think it even is is more than that because you have the time value of money um you have costs going up exponentially right now and then you have the opportunity cost of what is what what what is it going to cost the town to find this place that's going to be able to have that pump out station you're going to have staff time you're going to have public hearings you're going to have angry just the opportunity cost a loan which you know I I like the fact that you you made those numbers real but I think there's more to those numbers so great great stab at it but I think it's you know as we say it's invaluable but I I think when you look at opportunity cost and time value of money I think it's a great benefit to to the town yeah k um I know at the last meeting and I voted no because I push pretty hard on the timing um and since that time I did have conversations with both Bob and Bill um a lot of education on that I will say and I did my due diligence and checked with um Banking and finance people and all of that type of thing and understand now the issues that you face in committing and just the fact that you went into such um deep discussion about it with me I really appreciate that um and what came out of that discussion and what Bob has said here you know we want to get on this as soon as possible and I believe that um but there are real realistic things to consider but I just appreciate what you've done and the depth that you went into with all of that um and I really appreciate and I know we're not voting on it but I do appreciate this development agreement conditions to get everything laid out so that there's no questions asked so V mayor another question for Bill if I could this is more G General and out of curiosity here uh just for the record bill and I for a little while served on the TDC together bill is still on the tourist Development Council I think Fred mentioned this concept of we're still at 40 some percent in terms of hotel rooms back on Fort Meers Beach I'm curious uh since it Lani Kai is back are they included in those numbers uh uh no I don't think so so that'll that'll pop up um the mall bonds property at the Best Western they should best close they're close so that'll pop up I I think you'll get closer to 60% that was my question so those two are one's already in and one's imminent so but but and then after that it's a long slog so we'll be we'll be at 60% for quite a while I yeah I think uh I think I mean you had um you had some significant properties Outrigger um you had um the Windom um um so all those you know it's going to be time little guys I think I think we'll be a couple years that we'll be at that 60% and then you know you know you take sanabelle which is even worse they're at 17 they had a couple properties come back online I think they're at 25% um but they're I mean it's you know it's it's going to a long haul for just our whole community so I just think it's for helpful for people to know that thank you Bill yeah K maybe Bill want you want to step up there um I appreciate the facts and figures that that I'd asked for around the pump out and the flood water um is there any way you can quantify what a monthly breakdown or maybe a yearly breakdown would be for a pump out that you're offering the town um from a from a operational cost standpoint well yeah what what you would normally charge for something like that and sure in essence that is what saves the town some money correct yeah I mean on a yeah on a typical you know there's a fee for per pump out granted um what we're pumping out is probably 70 to 80 vessels at at one time so I mean if you took that on a per boat stand point I mean it's I mean it'd be significant we could put that together um but um I think as Scott said I mean just to that 1.6 that we showed it's probably a lot more than that um when you add in that operational side of of of the cost and and just the the sheer work that it would be to to get to that point okay and we you know we Frankie and I and and Andy have talked about this is just getting some kind of and that's why this development agreement is important because you know you know what's our hours of operation you guys know you know you know somebody Falls at the Town staff that were covered if one of my staff gets hurt that we you the town's covered I mean that's all going to go into that development agreement so we all know what what our obligations are and that we we meet those okay thank you thanks all right there are no other questions we'll open it up for public comment are there any members of the public who wish to comment on this matter if so please come forward to the podium and identify yourself provide your address and whether you were sworn in I have nobody signed up no one signed up yes ma'am come on up good morning my name is Judy pull that just pull that down Force please I would not sworn it you were not you're not sworn it okay will okay if you'll raise your right hand I find my script you swear or affirmed it that the testimony that you're about to give is the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth I do um first of all I want to thank Town Council I watch you guys on um when you're broadcast and I highly admire what you do um you're important part you're important part of the island I also want to preface this by saying we really like pinkt shell they're our neighbors they've been very good to us so this is not personal um I also see a lot of time and attention being discussed on the boutique hotel which I'm not going to talk about but it sandwiched in with these other two properties that were cute little Cottages um a lot of people lost their homes cute little Cottages they're all being replaced because we're under a tax burden with what the parameters of our lot space allow um and so we have setback requirements and we have height requirements and I'm really surprised to see that um they are sandwiching that Boutique Hotel in with these other two properties asking for extensions of height and a 10- foot setback on a stero Boulevard where there was once a sweet little cottage that had you know a 25 foot St back from the road that's concerning I'm in very close to the road so I'm just asking that I'm not sure why all three of these are being treated as one big sandwich deal um but I'd love to have you look at the specifics um we're a neighbor we love you guys do things well um but I'm just I am not happy with an extension of height or um the setback from the road being limited to 10 so i' just like you to take a look at that thank you thank you anyone else like this speed yes sir come on have you been sworn in no I okay you'll raise your right hand do you swear or affirm that the testimony that you're about to give is the truth the whole truth and nothing about the TR do all right my name is Robert Burns me and my wife own unit 135 stero uh I just like to reiterate uh our concerns are the same thing Town Council has for years set zoning requirements uh for the benefit of the people and all of a sudden after this hurricane we're seeing we want to build higher we want to build taller we want to build wider we want to build setbacks and I see that it looks to me that there's more people willing to do this for the almighty dollar for tax base we don't want Miami Beach here uh zoning setbacks were were made for exactly that to preserve what we have and I don't think that it's time to say well we had a major hurricane we've lost a lot of tax revenue let's just build higher and bigger and get more more room Revenue uh as was just stated that end of the island has always been small development we were told when we bought that that was the way it was but that parcel couldn't be built on now we're going to change that uh the other thing I I see is I haven't dug into the details of all this public benefit of a pump out this comes down to Pink Shell's going to make a lot of money pumping out uh boats it may save the town some money but the town isn't in that business you're in the business of regulating the businesses that want to do that so I don't really see a lot of the things proposed as public benefit really being benefit what we're going to see is we're putting in 40 more units across the street from my unit uh we're going to see more traffic we're going to see more noise we're going to see more problems with the park because there'll be traffic people trying to get into the park it's going to restrict people trying to get into the park and use the park because because this building is offset from their other buildings we're going to see people trouncing underneath our building to get out to the beach we already see it uh we have problems with our parking lot being used by people who can't get into the pink shell parking lot at times it's just going to cause more problems more traffic for the end of the beach that really has never been that way uh and I just don't think that the Town Council over the entire Beach should be waving height requirements setback requirements and the biggest density numbers you know density numbers were set years ago because we didn't want the jam building upon building upon building and now we're getting more and more because of the developments of the hurricane that people requesting well we're just put more in I understand the the town's wanting to get more tax revenue that's a good thing but one expense that's really basically all I have to say all right thank you anyone else like to speak yep come on up man have you been sworn in hi I'm Kathy Schultz 394 Estero back in November and December before the LPA staff recommended a denial of this project in January when it came before Town Council staff recommended approval if the proposed public benefits are determined adequate for the deviation of for Building height although the only thing fundamentally changed about the application between the LPA and the Town Council was a slight reduction in setback the LPA voted against the project 4 to2 residents have spoken in opposition at every at public comment at every meeting only one person has spoken in favor and that was a member of Staff the neighboring property hired an attorney who was granted intervenor St status that intervener withdrew after pink shell proposed the public benefit of putting seven public parking spaces next to the beach access running under that neighbor's building pink shell has since since withdrawn that public benefit you've received a ton of letters in opposition and almost none in support the letter you received yesterday asking that the project details be examined more closely and modified to better fit the neighborhood was signed by the owners of 17 out of the 30 units as Vacation Villas across the street from the proposed new building as well as Neighbors on Aero Boulevard who will live next door to the guest unit at 309 Estero most of the public benefits proposed for the project are things that should have been done as part of Prior agreements in perpetuity such as the landscaping and the Bayside walkway which existed until pink shell turned it into a parking lot in 2018 and 2022 is it really acceptable to you for an applicant to offer offer a public benefit in perpetuity for one project and then 20 years later offer the same public benefit again for another project other public benefits such as storm water drainage are already there to the benefit of the resort the pump out benefits the moing field not the public the application includes no architectural drawings and only a few renderings of the proposed hotel we do not have any idea what the guest units will look like the proposed Hotel will fit on a47 acre spot with only 10t setbacks in three directions with 40 units it has a density of 80 units per acre Diamond Head has a density of fewer than 50 units per acre When Diamond Head was approved it fit into a category of density for Lee County referred to as Convention Center density it is not even clear that pink shell has development rights on the Bayside two former Community leaders have told you that it doesn't because they remember the discussions in 1999 and 2000 this is not a rebuild from Hurricane Ian this is a request for new density and you have said on multiple occasions that height that new density and height deviations should be expected to meet a higher threshold of public benefit if there was ever a project to deny this seems like it if you keep saying yes without discernment it will be very hard for you to ever say no thank you thank you anyone else like to speak yes sir come on up have you been sworn in yeah you yeah I think I saw you have to raise this a little bit Jack from 39 a s Boulevard if you could for my benefit pull up the the Marine pink show Resort Marina CPD and put it on the screen for we'd have to know what Master the master concept is it in your thing believe does anyone have any objection to do hold on off on his time till not at all John okay we're GNA hold off starting this time until he gets that up there you got it I do have it on my back you do have it up there okay yeah I have like 30 backup slides after this might be easier since they already have it up oh Sarah's it's a separate power point oh it is separate yeah see if I can find it on here because I'm guess hold your ears up show me what you're looking for so I can see if I can find it online yes you look for okay for us it's a packer page 137 it shows what he's referencing all right so on the far right is where we see um lot 309 and that abuts the residential neighborhood and right all the setbacks we can't hear you over there so okay just just refer to it we can okay all the setbacks my understanding from the last meeting is that this parcel would meet all the same setbacks that the residential lots had before which they do on the bay and the two sides but on the street side there's a little note that says a 10- foot setback from the street and all these homes built all along there have a 25 foot setb and this is the end of a residential neighborhood before the Marina so and then there's a request to have three stories above flood and everything is built to two stories of flood so we would ask that you take this out of this plan and just have it meet the regular residential requirements for all the homes that are sitting next to it says it right on there 10 foot Street set back so everybody's home is 25 ft or further from the street this will go right out to the street practically and then the height everybody's built two stories above flood and this plan shows three stories above flood that just doesn't seem right and the one across the street is also in for three stories above flood and that's not the character of characterization of that neighborhood either so selfishly we're most concerned about the 309 parcel but can we please not include that in this big Town thing this is a residential lot I believe the intent is to build a residence there and so we shouldn't have those deviations okay okay um and we too are very concerned about the traffic the density on the lot why this why the hotel if it's approved has to be so big so close and encroach on the B everything okay thank you is there anyone else I'd like to speak public comment seeing none we'll close public comment are there any additional comments rebuttal or closing statements from the applicant there are a few so Fred Dr RBI so um I appreciate Public's uh concerns and thoughts on this I think there's some things that I I can help clarify um so the uh the deviations um the front setback has been brought up twice we that is just actually part of code for that area so is a 10- foot setback um so we just didn't try to show anything different on a like the 309 lot we didn't show anything different than what was just required by code what wasn't um met on code on on that one is the side setbacks because it it is a it is a narrow lot is it is a 50ft lot and the side setbacks are 15 on each side um not leaving much more than a a galley style home in the middle of that 50 feet so we'd have 20 foot wide thing right in the middle um the historical setbacks on that lot 309 on the sides or just a couple of feet on each side the house was kind of cottage was kind of on an angle so we just tried to improve those giving the most the biggest setback to the neighbor which um the boy can and and and Bill are very familiar with so we've worked with them on on providing that bigger setback um so we only deviated from the side setbacks the front setback we just went to the CR the commercial Resort zoning District um which is applied throughout this area um and that's a 10 foot setback so that was the setback discussion on lot 309 and on the boutique hotel that's why it is 10 feet um the uh support letters uh so we did so we have I know it seems like negative that most of what you receive are you know letters in opposition not not uncommon but I would want to reflect or refer to that we did receive uh letters of support from the from the two boards who then represent the majority of the owners in the uh stero Island and in the vacation Villa so um I mean we worked hard to get that and for the majority of their owners to proove that um and then uh so this is not a rebuild that and I actually don't have a problem with them saying that because some of this isn't a rebuild but some of it is so we don't want to you know not characterize this um well so you know that lot 309 it was knocked down we had a duplex in a cottage uh on the golf side that was knocked down so there are some units that are rebuild the 40 the 40 boutique hotels are not part of a rebuild but we're okay with holding us to a higher level of scrutiny for public benefits and we believe we put our best foot forward there um in every way we could think of to cooperate there and put a really good package together I do think it's I I do agree with some of what they said that that there was you know part of the the The View Corridor the interpretive walkway that was in the prior language and it was there um but I we didn't really like the didn't like the design the way it was laid out I mean the paths didn't go clear across the property they stopped on each side of the of the marina building so it wasn't really a you walkway you was went to one part of it and it was near the parking lot and then you just have to turn around or walk across the parking lot to get back to a stero Boulevard we want to make that a boardwalk to the extent we can through permitting put it out over the water have seating and just really improve this over what was um agreed to years ago so it isn't a zero to to 100 public benefit because it was there to some extent but I think we're taking it from a from a 50 to 100 um just making it a really solid uh beautiful place that will um for the most part less of it will be able to be destroyed in the hurricane because now we have hopefully no boardwalk and stuff like those can get knocked down too I guess but this is a more permanent installation of what was agreed to in the past and then greatly enhanced so that's just part of my thoughts on this and I think Amy has a few as well and then again for questions thanks oh oh the homes didn't that was the last one um we're not asking for any height deviation or anything for the lot 309 or from the uh the guest unit on the Gulf side it's three stories total um and according to the comp plan so what is that 35 feet over flood 30 feet over flood and three total stories we're not trying to go beyond that so I know it's confusing confused me for a long time too that it's but it's two living stories over over flood yeah so three total stor questions before you run FR make sure there's no John have any questions for Fred mayor Karen no I'm good Scott yeah that was my question about the three stories thank you for clarifying sir Amy public comments closed ma'am I'm sorry maybe you could talk with Bill maybe he can answer your questions good morning again Amy too retel so I think Fred covered a lot of what you know we would just want to say to wrap this up the final point that I'm just going to make really quickly goes back to what Nancy talks about at the beginning of every meeting which is competent substantial evidence which is of course our burden of proof and so I think i' I brought this up last time but I'm going to just quickly recap on this again today competent sub competent substantial evidence uh does distinguish between lay person and expert evidence and testimony I should say so the testimony from the experts is you know consistent that this meets the criteria for approval and you know we are certain we certainly understand uh where members of the public are coming from we certainly understand that folks don't always like development in their backyard um I get it it's it's a hard pill to swallow even for somebody like me who does all of this developer work all day every day um but expert testimony is required to establish competent substantial evidence regarding issues like compatibility and consistency with the comp plan traffic concerns things of that nature lay person testony lay person opinion is not sufficient to establish that so I would just um respectfully assert that you know the competent substantial evidence before you today does establish that we have met the criteria for approval this is a great project the public benefit is awesome it's been really exciting to be able to bring so much public benefit before you guys um it's not something that we get to do with every project and it always feels good when we can so with that I will just respectfully ask that you uh find this consistent with the approval criteria and um that you vote to approve this today thank thank you anybody have any questions for Amy no no all right thanks am anything else FR Bill good okay well now I'll close the public hearing and request a discussion or a motion from Town Council to approve approve with conditions deny with reasons or a continuance to a Time certain anyone Scott you got anything to add I would like to hear from so the our last our first read reading there was some questions from um the other council members and um I'd like to get their opinion now um based on the testimony today what what their thoughts are because my my my opinion has not changed any specific one you're referring to well there there was some questions uh from councelor King about the value from uh in vice mayor adal want to make sure that that uh document in question was was valid I want to make sure his his concerns were answered uh you know council member Woodson she she was opposed to the agreement uh I don't want to put words in her her mouth but I want to see if you know things have changed and you know their their thoughts and Views have been cemented with this second reading coun wizen yeah I think I've already stated that I've had these conversations I did my own research search with um going back to financing and developments and that type of thing and I feel sufficient um to make my decision um I also would make it certainly with the um specifics of the development agreement as a condition as we go forward um that was talked about you know the CPD plus the development agreement going forward of what the conditions are that you're committing to okay vice mayor yeah I think for the reasons that I stated at the first uh reading uh uh I think they remain the same I think many of the LPA uh uh concerns were addressed and therefore I will continue to support ordinance 24-35 John my uh issues were addressed all right and I'll go back to you Scott so with that I'd like to make a motion that we we approve ordinance 24-35 DC 12023 0009 Pink Shell Resort CPD with the a development agreement development agreement as well as other conditions that are contained in the uh in the draft I'll second got a motion by councelor Safford secondly by councelor Woodson any further discussion councelor Safford hi councelor Woodson hi vice mayor adle hi councelor King hi and mayor Aller just abstained so motion carries 4 to Z okay with mayor all mayor can we take a quick sure we take it a 15 minute quick 15 minute uh Comfort break be back at 11 e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e ready all right we will call the meeting back to order it is 11 o' the next public hearing is a resolution of the Town Council of the town of Fort Meers Beach Florida uh approving approving with conditions or denying variance v202 4233 a variance to remove required parking associated with the use of the lot at 25 the lot as a 25 unit hotel motel a variance to remove site design requirements such as providing lighting for vehicles and pedestrian uses turnaround area sufficient to allow 90° parking at the end of a row the ability to turn around and exit the lot in a for orientation stacking requirements additional drainage and parking lot landscape requirements as described in section 10- 416 C A variant three a variance to remove requirements which limit driveway widths to maximum of 25 ft and four a variance to allow International internal aisle width for two-way traffic no to be no less than 22 ft in width for the property located at 1479 to stero Boulevard and providing for an effective date mayor um this item Item B and C are related and if we could perhaps you could just go ahead and read the title to this next item item C and then Mr SMY will explain the relationship okay I will read the second one this is continued from January 8th 2025 public hearing Lan Kai parking a resolution of the Town Council the town of Fort Meers Beach Florida approving approving with conditions denying special exception secz 202 4186 for use of an existing lot to provide commercial parking spaces in the downtown zoning District of the town of Fort Meers Beach Land Development code for property located at 1479 esto Boulevard providing for scri res erors severability and an effective date if any Town Council Members had any exart communication to disclose please let us know the subject discussed in the identity of the person group or entity with whom the communication took place any correspondence that you received or observations made of the site Scott I have not very familiar with the site however I think I've received one email against okay Woodson I too have only received one email against all right I the same as both councelor Safford and councelor Woodson Vice mayle the same and councelor King do okay Jason Smalling has been qualified as an expert already by This Town Council and based on his education and experience has been accepted as an expert in the field of land use planning and development in the town of Fort Meers Beach are there any other individuals who would like to be qualified as an expert witness on behalf of the applicant at this time okay has a property owner applicant seen a copy of the agenda backup materials from staff adding your head yes go ahead Jason good morning counselors staff citizens my name is Jason SMY I'm with your planning and zoning department uh before you today uh are two matters and as the attorney has mentioned they are interrelated so before you today is a request for a u special exception the special exception would be exclusively for granting the right to have a commercial uh parking lot on the site at 1479 the variances go to the requirements in the code When developing u a parking lot or other structure rures uh and those requirements as you read off in the uh in the title do come down to site design so what you have before you is a request to do away with the site design and then approve the special exception because if the special exception were approved all by itself these requirements for site design would still exist so the applicant is is asking to do away with those in their request to get approval for the commercial parking so so as was mentioned before the uh staff had been working with uh with the applicants that was one of the reasons behind the continuance of the of the project uh staff has put in to each one of the uh special exception resolutions and to the variance resolution a condition of approval requ uh requiring that the applicant present to us a holistic uh uh parking plan so this would cover their main site at400 the site in question at 1479 uh their existing parking uh that is also on a stero and those addresses are in there and then um during our discussion with the applicants they mentioned that they had some plans about trying to shift some of their um their employee and their retail employees uh parking into another lot that they control directly next to 1479 so the intent was to get a holistic plan and just have them establish where their parking would be located how many parking spaces are are available for just their uh Hotel uses and then how many parking spaces would then be left over that they could utilize for commercial purposes I.E daily rental for Beach parking or other uses such as that um as of this morning staff has not received a plan for it uh I just wanted to point out that if uh the council decided to approve both or even one of the special exception and the variances that staff would be asking for uh conditions in there to include uh before discuss their views on what they're vested with and what their plans are for the uh for the Lots in the future all right John do you have any questions for Jason not currently Vice May Jason I'm tempted to wait until after the applicant presents but uh I think it's I'll wait I'll wait than what in yeah I'm confused on the two so I'm hoping that the presentation will clear that up because on one end it's I don't I'll wait maybe I can Nancy maybe you can help with that the special exception is it I'll let you the special exception is to allow the use at a at a higher level that a parking lot would be appropriate however for their specific parking lot to operate they need to have these variances that they're requesting so if the variances are not approved there's really no reason for them to get the special exception unless they're willing to make significant changes so in layman's terms the special exception unlocks the door and then the variances are what's side yes that's one way to look at it okay I mean the the special exception could come before or after but the two are related okay but the special exception is the second one is item C in this order yes in this order so you could take a vote on the special exception first and then uh the approval of the variances but without the approval of the variances I think that they may withdraw their special exception request I there's no need to approve the essentially there's no reason to approve the use if you're not approving what they would like to do with the use correct that's kind of where we are um okay I I have a question yes sir this was put this was given to us just now and I just I'm even more confused now if got page one you know where did this come from I think the vice mayor passed those out oh the applicant asked was trying to hand them out could get all the way around the day so he has me to to to hand them out so the applicant put this little packet together Bob can you explain this well let's if we don't have any more questions for Jason then we'll let them up and yeah I think we all like to hear from the applicant record Robert B attorney good afternoon I think it's almost noon this all started when the Lan Kai was cited for parking nonvisitors of the Lan Kai in this park parking lot uh this parking lot is attached or there's a 25 unit Hotel on this parking lot Lani Kai was built in the 70s and this I believe was built in the early 80s both pred preceded the towns incorporation which means it's a legal non-conforming lot and it's been used as a shared parking lot for the last 40 years and that's why I gave you one of the handouts it describes what a single purpose parking lot is and a in a multi-purpose park or shared purpose parking lot shared purpose parking lot can be used by the specific use and then it can also be rented to the general public they got cited for parking which they've been doing like I said for 40 years for parking public park cars in there instead of going the legal route through the magistrate and through the Circuit Court we came down and met with staff who were very accommodating uh they explained the situation we told them that the issue is public letting public park there so they stopped letting the public public park there with that the town withdrew the citation and we sat down and had a long discussion about turning this into comp becoming conforming so to speak even though we didn't have to I don't think because we're a legal non-conforming lot we sat down with staff and again they were very accommodating we came up with a solution we would ask for the variances we would ask for the special exception well actually I think we just decided to ask for the special exception it wasn't until staff got involved that we were told that we would need variant when we met with staff we made it abundantly clear that because of the storm and because of everything that's going on there's just no money there to bring it into compliance with the lighting and the drainage and the only requirement from staff was is that we leave that road open behind the parking lots there so the fire truck could get through and we agreed to do that but we told them at least I thought we made it clear that the Lanai had no intentions of investing a great deal of money into something that they've been doing for the last 40 years so we AG we applied for the special exception staff's report said in order to get the special exception you're going to need these variances so another $3,600 later we applied for the variances again like the handout I gave you talks about and I understand the purpose of the statute the statute says if you build in your hotel rooms are less than so four I think it's 450 square feet you need 1.2 parking spaces for every unit that makes sense you want to be able to make sure that if you build something on the beach that you have enough parking for the problem is is lon Kai was there this Bayside Hotel was already there when this went into effect they' already complied with the current regulations from Lee County when they built it now there's 43 parking spots in the lon Kai Hotel part and I I don't want to lump these units all in one I want to deal with each unit separately so let's deal with the Bayside Hotel it's 25 units which means you need 1.2 parking spots which means you need 30 parking spots now if you look at the one handout I gave you and this is where staff and I differ there's a a reduction because it's in the the district so I see it as a 50% reduction staff sees it as a 6.67 so in other words a 33% reduction what page are you on Bob now this is this is where it comes gets a little complicated because this hotel sits at the very end of a canal so technically it's on the bay when you look out you see the bay it's on the bay there's no land between it and the bay so I'm going to argue that it's on the bay and they should be given a 50% reduction which means instead of 30 spots they only need 15 spots if you look at the staff's evaluation they would need 20 20.1 spots and this in your Land Development code says that if you have more than that I any piece of property you can lease it out to the public that's one of the hand I think it's 20 point that's the second one 3421 Surplus spaces and single-purpose parking lots may be rented to the general public during Peak periods as provided in section 34 2119a which requires you to have at least 10 extra or at least 10 spots so let me ask you a quick question yeah I understand what you're saying there and I see why you would have the differences of opinion but is it really a a mute point because you're one of the variances that you're requesting is that all of the parking spaces be used for commercial none to be used for specifically for the way it works is the Lanai has a a person at the in that parking lot they call or communicate with that person every day how many units are rented on the base side we don't want reservation people to not have a parking spot so every day they're called down there and they tell them how many spots they need to reserve staff wants us to come into compliance which means that we'd only be allowed to rent the excess parking spots so if we have 43 and you believe it's the number is 15 then the difference between 43 and 15 would be the allowable spaces to rent to the general public if you believe it's 20.1 then let's call it 23 spaces to the general public we don't want to we're not at General parking our first concern is to the guests they need to have places to park but do the way it's in our packet and the way I read it is the variance to remove required parking associated with the use of lots as a 25 unit hotel motel so to me I read that as you're looking to eliminate the need to have any required parking for your guests is that a fair statement yeah Mr that yeah I think in the in the packet is what we're asking for the the agreement that we came to with the town is more like we only we will agree to limit it to the number of spaces that the town code requires us to limit it to as a shared parking lot okay that's where my confusion is coming in so you're not asking for all of the spaces just I would love to ask for all the spaces but in all reality we did agree with staff that we would keep it to that number I'm not sure we have to but we would agree to keep it to that number okay and you're saying that just for the record you're saying that number is what again I'm saying the number is we need 15 because I'm calling it being on the bay the town is saying it's not on the bay and it would be 20.1 that we would need so 15 would stay for your guest the rest would go for Consumer yes as long as we didn't have you know some weird thing that was going on I mean like I said number one is the guest we want to make sure that there's plenty of places to park and the town has a vested interest in finding public parking for people to park in that area near Time Square so it seems like a win-win for both us and the town all right I mean this this I understand the Land Development quote is a little confusing and technically it says I mean that you can do it but we would like to make the town happy and not have to not have to necessarily litigate this issue but that was the agreement that we reached with them and and they're willing to stick by that agreement okay everything I've said be verified by Kenny conadis who's the general manager um if you want to ask him to verify whatever whatever I said or you have any questions for him well he's not I'm assuming he's agreeing with you yeah I mean unless he has something cont ictory to say what you said I don't I have a question Kenny what what is the time frame for the that Bayside resort to open B you gotta come up here hi I'm kind of yeah kind kind of D um the bayside's getting worked on as we speak right now uh so basically that was all we were doing was while it was down was renting spots and having our employees park over there well then it was stopped no renting spots at all so then we just made it to where just our employees park over there but like Bob said we would always put the guest first we would never go ahead and not have a spot for a guest because that would be silly for us so this is for the Surplus obviously I I think I'm in agreement with the mayor the way I read this packet it was pretty much yeah we've got this hotel here but we want to turn this into parking lot and our our point of view at least mine is is I want we need we need bedrooms yes and guest guests always come first yes but my I guess my question would be the staff how do we we just trust them which which I would because you know you want to have parking spots for your guest but how would enforcement wait is this enforcable I guess is my question to you so I mean I I don't want to make it complicated right so I don't want every day the hey they got 20 rooms oh hey we got another guy now we need 21 spots I mean how how how do we manage this on a on a going forward basis does that make sense I so I'm I'm a little reticent to step on the toes of Define people in enforcement and how they would manage to do this but I think From staff's perspective it's it's difficult uh short of the town requiring some sort of visual hang tag or sticker or something that would be associated with the um with the users of the hotel as opposed to daily Parkers I I don't know that there's a great way to do that um in staff's opinion this is setting the Baseline for all future interactions with Lon Kai but as far as the enforcement mechanism um I I don't think I can properly address how it would be done concert to me it would it would seem that being a hotel yourself you you would definitely want to make sure your guest you're going to pay Lon Kai is going to pay the price if they don't have spaces sufficient enough in my opinion for their guest they're going to be the first ones to hear it not the town yeah and to your point Mr Mayor and customer Stafford that that's what it originally was is that when we looked at this property the property was vacant at the time under construction whatever you want to call they were working on the hotel part um out of nowhere again I've only been here two years uh going down the island all of a sudden they're charging for parking which they didn't had there prior uh we brought them in we had conversations and to Mr AR br's defense exactly through that conversation uh they had uh documents going all the way back to when the county had this island we don't have that information nor did we nor do we have the ability to enforce what was there then we can only enforce what we have now uh through that conversation um the special exception was the only way to basically give them that not cart blanch with the ability just to have that and take it off of a code area and I think that's where that initial conversation started was by coming and getting the special exception that opened up the door for them to to operate the way they wanted we're not going to go in there and start counting bumpers and stickers and and all that stuff but we just wanted them to do it the same way that just for an example Norms is doing it right next door there are other lot that functions closer to the whale those type of things just be consistent and um I'd just like to make one point to the point of them having done this for a long time I mean staff has seen the same documents that I'm sure you and management have seen but we just wanted to point out that at the time prior to 2015 the town had uh regulations dealing with seasonal temporary Lots so most of the lots that were working on the island were being run under that form it was temporary at the end of the season those returned to what they were being used for uh when the temporary uh codes went away and this was uh ordinance 1511 by the way uh when that went away the the point was to transition these folks that were using it on a um on a temporary basis to a more extended basis and that's where the code language coming in for these types of lots requiring special exception to get approval to continue that use that I don't think staff's argu didn't exist before but wasn't formalized as a permanent lot so what we what we've done is we've seen many of those lots pre25 that were doing this activity come in for special exception um the Norms the ganam lots of out there and they're coming to get that special exception now to make sure that they're covered under today's codes and as part of that as you've seen with Norms in the ganam lot they've agreed or um have approvals to do the lighting to do the Landscaping to do the storm water requirements so staff's staff's belief is just this is a continuation of that pattern of these lots that were generally seasonal in nature now they're coming into uh compliance with today's coach I just wanted to make that point I've been on the beach since the mid 80s and I can tell you that the Lani Kai's been running these spaces out to the public since mid 880s 90s I've represented the L Kai since probably 1988 so this has always been used for public parking and it was used prior to the towns incorporation for public parking that's why I gave you 34 3202 here's the interesting story we go to the LPA with these two requests the LPA grants the special exception they were inclined to deny the variances at the first hearing and they and actually Anita asked me may you want to reconsider withdraw it Etc Etc I said we'll leave it on the table we went back to the second LPA hearing we told them about our plan to go forward and and limit it to the amount of cars that the this current Land Development code says and the LPA passed it I think it would I don't think I think one person voted no but it passed by majority vote when the first hearing they weren't going to pass it because they said and here was their logic they said well if you want to become a public parking lot you need to comply with with the Land Development code they didn't they didn't necessarily I don't think understood understand the argument about you know the non-conforming and of course it wouldn't be up to them to interpret that that would be up to a court of law to interpret that so we agreed with staff that we would go back and do the calculation and only rent spots to the public that pursuant to the Land Development code so we're giving up a right to say we're non-conforming and now becoming conforming you made a great question how do you enforce this I'm not really sure how you enforce it I mean when somebody pulls in there and they say we're going to the lon Kai I mean we have to say okay and that's what we've been doing is we've been limited to only the Lan Kai patrons is what the staff and we agreed to so we'd like to now go forward and rent the Extra Spaces and whatever you decide if it's Bayfront or if it's not Bayfront you know the it's either we need 15 spaces or 20.1 but I can assure you it and I know you you've heard this a thousand times but they're not like the mayor said the primary concern is the guest not the $10 $20 they make on a car for parking that just adds a little bit of the revenue and pays some of the employees that are standing out there so we made it very clear at least I hope we did at the initial meeting and all the way through that they there's just no money left in the well because I don't know if you've been to the Lan Kai lately but they've done everything is new let me let me ask you this taking out thinking outside the box taking one step further you you don't want to do the landscape you don't want to do the lighting what about if if this works well everybody's everybody's on board that you have a plan I don't know how we codify that you eventually bring it into compliance that you have the lighting that you have the landscape and make it look nice I understand everybody's tight right now I don't think we can make that just I'm just asking yeah I understand I understand the problem is is that it right now I couldn't get 10 years we it's going to take a long time to make the revenue up that was lost for me and and the other two storms uh so I can't make any guarantees the hotel like he said is trying to get that part of the hotel open Period so and I can't comment because I don't know exactly what you know drainage is going to be what the Landscaping what the lighting I we talking about $1,000 are we talking about $100,000 you I don't know my point though is I don't want five years from now my grandkids are able to drive to come down here it's like hey Dad this place is a big or Grandpa this place is nothing but parking lots and there's there's no Shrubbery there's no lighting there's yeah you know are we letting the cat out of the bag here that we don't have a plan to you know I think some did you say you went down there and looked at it some I mean Lon Kai is has come a long way you I'm not so sure the dra I'm I'm not I'm I'm not talking about the Lan Kai you guys have done a great job I mean we we we were you guys were just here a couple months ago you know getting you know putting the pavers back putting the landscape back but what my concern though Bob is is is that if if we allow this with with no Landscaping no lighting no plan that we're we're we're going to have nothing but parking lots with no lighting no plan no Shrubbery no anything now I don't want to pin you down but at the same time same time I'm just asking the question outside the box C can we would you be willing to do something like that I think I speak for the lanat when I say they want to First Class operation so you know and all of the parking lots lost all of the vegetation and all the lighting from the storm uh this we have guests coming down consistently saying wow It it's it's brown it's it's Dungy it's safe it's unsafe it's if you look at that row there's the uh the old 7-Eleven then you got the lon Kai parking then you got Norms parking and then you got the Bayside Motel I think it's consistent throughout there I I don't know if normas agreed to landscap and lightings and all that stuff um but I think it's an it's a burden on somebody that's been there and operating like this pre-incorporation um but that's just me but I mean we're always willing to look at improvements I don't know the extent of those improvements and I hate to say yeah we're going to bring it up to code and then we find out it's going to be a $200,000 investment you know Bob I I certainly sympathize with that but you know we've got 5,000 Reddit residents that were undue burdened as well that have to re you know their oak tree was there before the storm now it's not right now they got to go through the landscaping and they've got to go through the lighting just like everyone else does so I kind of agree with you Scott when it comes to you we were all burdened by the storm to different degrees and it's all relevant as to what it costs each person but if if the goal is of this island to to come back and come back the way it was before the storm were better which I think that's what we all want doesn't make sense to approve something without having a path forward to to bring it into today's compliance trust me I real I lost my house during I know um I don't have a problem with bringing it back the way it was before the storm but I think you're going to find that it's probably better now than the way it was before the storm uh there's lighting there there's drainage there uh we agreed to keep that back street open which they don't have to do but they've agreed to do that um and they just want to continue what they were doing pre-incorporation so I understand the town's eagerness to bring everything up and make it beautiful and do all that but I don't think that I think we're putting a silk M you know it's just not to fit there it's I mean I don't even know if there's room there but I'll let Kenny address that okay so first of all for years and years and years how we do it at the hotel is we do we we get the um front desk to go ahead and figure out how many people are coming in how many people are going out out and then we go ahead and save the spots that we need to for the guest first so that's a given then we rent out whatever the extra space is and then beyond that we hold spots for the guests now as for lighting of course we're going to have lighting because liability purposes we can't get somebody to sue us for tripping on our property okay as for landscaping we've done Landscaping two or three times since the storm and you know the other storms have wiped it out and we've redone it so if you look at the Landscaping we've done it looks beautiful now of course we're going to keep going even further once the time comes and this building is done like you asked we're going to go ahead and make sufficient lighting without having the turtles because now across the street the buildings are gone that that used to be there so it's a little bit more stigant for you know for the turtles and stuff but um but no we're doing everything believe me that we can possibly to make it look nice to go ahead and make sure that the liability purposes are good and to make it look pretty so that's that's a given so let me ask you a question on that Ken So currently you don't have a CO for that the part the units on that side yet right no would would you be comfortable with a and you just stated that you obviously want to bring it up to make it beautify to make it would you be comfortable with a condition that before issuance of a CO for that building that you will come into compliance with the the landcaping and lighting yeah the Landscaping lighting yes that's fine the thing the thing that we're worried about is this drainage and stuff I I have no idea what what what about this drainage when we've been doing the same thing for 40 years I mean you know they mentioned you know the size of the lot entrance and you know Landscaping the entrance you know we we're trying to do everything we can to to keep it like it used to be but also make it prettier you know so I I I don't know the extent of what they're trying to do so if you saw like our main building that one's completed and we went ahead and put in you know for curb appeal all new landscaping and I do I think it looks nicer than it did before so we're going to do the same thing with the next one so I I don't know how the extent is that's that's the whole thing is we're worried about I mean you know is it going to be a little bit too much that that that we are going ahead and uh forfeiting stuff compared to what we used to have you know we're trying to go ahead and make everything nicer without having to Forfeit you know because I don't know what the drainage and stuff because that's all new a whole new ball game but I think we've always looked prettier than like Norms parking and stuff like that I do have you ever had or does the staff know maybe the staff knows since we've been paying attention I don't ever remember any issues with drainage on that site elevation hasn't changed matter of fact we lost five spots the last time right before the storm that we went ahead and and uh resurfaced our parking lot over there because we used to have 48 but then they they asked us to get rid of all the parallel spots that were buting you know that were measurement against the other spots that were you know where the guest Park so we so we went from 48 spots down to 43 and you know that was five spots we lost but we did it you know all in ACC coordinance and stuff but I don't know I mean is it going to keep shrinking you know I mean more and more I mean that's all we're we're we're just trying to go ahead and make sure that we have what we had at the same time of trying to improve like you're saying but believe me I'm I'm willing to work with you I mean I think everybody knows that I've never said no I just don't know the extent of drainage and stuff so the drainage is what is is kind of giving you the big vers the lighting in the Landscaping yeah lighting I mean I think we're we're we're in agreement we're trying to work with Chad on lighting from the you know with turtles and stuff like that before we open because of the fact for liability we have to you know okay you need to continue or you want more questions I don't know if you have a presentation you need to go through by kind of track there I'm I'm pretty good if this is a review in a year you know to look at the lighting and and come and look at the Landscaping after they finish the I think we're okay with that it's it is the drainage issue it's the issue about reconfiguring the parking lot uh it's the issue about this turnaround and be inside a lot of that will be dictated by the fire department won't it as far as accessibility and turnaround and I mean they're going to have to review this as well cor there's a road that goes out in the middle of the parking lot I don't remember the name of that street SOS Santos so we've agreed to leave that open which we lose the space probably help but that's helps the people down there get the fir truck through or the people go out going out they can go out that way so I think that alleviates this turnaround thing and again they they actually own the two lots next to this parking lot now um so there's we're not really a buding anybody but our own property and then there's a condominium on the on the would that be the the East Side uh so the front is a stero the back is the bay the sides they own and so you just got this condominium and so if you were to put a clause in there that we needed to come before you or go through staff to determine whether or not there's sufficient lighting or Landscaping but just write a blank check and I'm a little nervous about that no I I understand I mean I think it's important at least for me it's important to make sure the Landscaping the lighting is in addressed and you know as far as a time frame goes to me it would make sense that before you get a CO to be able to use the building that you have to have it done by then so if it takes you six months to I mean sooner you get them open the better it's going to benefit you so I mean putting a time frame on it to me that seems like a time frame that I mean you control it but it's not going to be a something that's Pinn to you got to come back and waste more time do all the stuff that I don't think is necessary the only thing that shocked us is when they shot us down completely you know that was what you know we're just kind of surprised we've been doing this for years and I got a everybody mind I have another couple quick questions on so so the other one I have a question on is is variance three it almost so you if I'm reading this correctly I read it as is your wider than the minimum is that it it says yes driveway is larger than the minimum driveway so the variance is to allow a bigger entrance versus a smaller entrance basically to that's the way I read is okay yes and then the other one is is the turnaround which I think you were just talking about and your solution to that was to allow and again that's this one is going to have to be reviewed by the fire department to make sure it complies with them so to me it looks like the biggest issues are the number the quantity which I again we can go back and forth on whether it's Bayfront or not I think I agree with you that that property would be considered because it's attached to the hotel is Bayfront so I would tend to agree with with with you but it's not you're telling me it's not okay uh is it because it's separated it's detached from the front we have uh we have figure 347 I believe which actually gives a visual representation of what is considered to be the pedestrian and the Bayfront pedestrian uh those are explicitly limited to the Time Square what page is this on I'm sorry this is in mun code uh this would be in chapter 34- 672 and it is figure 34-7 um we ran into this staff ran into this with a parking question uh earlier uh sorry I apologize um you said it's 347 34-7 which should just be under the 34- 672 um section and if you'll notice in there there's the there's a there's pedestrian plazas that are actually called called out with a with a brick hatching and when we were reviewing for another business that was on um in Time Square just facing the uh facing a stero as opposed to internally facing uh it was pointed out to us at the maps but if I'm looking at this if you look at where it says the word a sterile Boulevard that's that condo that's on the corner right on on the on U I forgot the name of it is it Carolina Carolina the property rate to the left of it is the lon Kai correct uh the 1479 it doesn't have a number on it yeah got the 1479 is showing the property just to the left of that e on that on that drawing am I that is that correct uh I believe I believe so I believe that is the the lot the lot with the hotel on it so to me on this picture that you're referencing it looks like it's one complete lot that it so how can the parking lot not be considered Beach or Bayfront if the building is considered Bayfront because if we yeah the the section that he's quoting is the Bayfront pedestrian Plaza 34- set figure 34-7 and when you look at the uh at 34-7 in the lower right hand corner you'll see the the Brick hatching for pedestrian closets and you'll see that those are only specifically called out in the Bayfront um where arches if I may call it that where the Arches is and then now I see what you're talking about okay I I didn't see on the right side The Pedestrian Plaza the the Brick the the rest of the map goes to show the downtown the the downtown area in total okay but the only way that we can interpret The Pedestrian pling in spe in particular being called out is these places on the map with the brick Hatchet that should go against the town and the benefit of the applicant if it's not clear but I understand what I I see what they're Bas vague and ambiguous and I think I think if you take the literal meaning it's on the bay because the canal comes right up there's nobody in no land in front of it that's my interpretation but well I 15 I'll just give you my my two senses the the small number of parking spaces that we're talking about versus the lighting and the and the safety and and the the Landscaping to me is more important than a few spaces here or there in the grand scheme of things but that's that's my two cents on on that part of it and I agree with you I think that's important but it's just a matter of timing and money well I I think are you referring to the lighting and Landscaping and things landscaping and the uh parking so if you I I don't want to tie it to the seal necessarily I would say maybe six months after the seal give them an opportunity to generate some income um but I understand okay I don't know how long before it's going to be open yeah Ken could you get just a rough idea when do you when do you expect not certainly won't hold you to it but yeah I say about six months hopefully open they're working on it but again I can't you know what I mean it took us longer than I expected on the other stuff because you got to move up Ken I don't know if they can they can hear you it's kind of like the pink shell you know you got to depend on finance you got to have the money you got to contractors lined up but it it took longer than we expected to open a regular hotel but now uh but now that it is I mean anybody's free to come over and see it and see how we we finished it and with the landscaping and the lighting you know hopefully you'll like it and then uh we'll do the same with the other I mean because we want curb appeal we we want to look nice we do we even took out a lot of the murals and stuff because I know you guys didn't really like you know all the murals so we've been really trying to work with the the beach as much as possible vice mayor you got some questions I'm G to hold off for I think this is a very good conversation I for the record I've never voiced any concerns about the murals but but but I don't think anybody in the council has but uh having said that I I'm not interested in micromanaging your how you have your parking I did hear one concern about folks potentially having to back out into a stero but it doesn't sound like that that's the case but I certainly heard that concern um there's a guy there physically almost every moment of the day and so there's he's always watching the traffic and I I I do like I do like this concept of creating a path uh towards compliance particularly when it comes to Landscaping uh because you guys are right on a stero and again you have an interest and and having having it look nice as well and so it should be in in I always like when Agreements are in in in there's a symbiotic relationship where it's in everybody's benefit to to move in that direction and I would think having some nice landscap being there particularly right being on a stero would be to your benefit and to to the Public's benefit and so I like this concept that the mayor and counselor saford have talked about in terms of a path uh to get to bring you into compliance I understand your concerns about the drainage but at a minimum the Landscaping I think the lighting is in your own uh uh just out of care for your guests and liability concerns to take care of that um but I but I'd like to see some kind of a path and I I think uh the mayor's concept of a c right before the CEO seems reasonable but I'm open for suggestions I'm just just I'm just listening it's been a good discussion John I have nothing at this time you know maybe I I understand your point about you know like you and the CEO thing for me I I I kind of cringe a little bit or tense up when we talk about doing things after a CO understand versus before I would be more inclined out of good faith because you have been operating I mean anybody that's lived here knows you've been operating the way you've been operating since as long as I've been here um and like you said you could have challenged this you could have gone other way so to me in in effort of good faith I would even entertain allowing you until you get your CEO to continue operating the way you've been operating to a certain extent I don't want this to now be I mean I obviously rooms are important for you to get open they're important for all of us to get open so I don't see you dragging it out any longer than it has to be but to allow you to as opposed to going after the CE if if you know I mean it's not a huge amount of money but neither is I just think it's it's a difficult thing but a CO is a deadline right I mean that is something that is a tangible I don't see that as a deal breaker what I would ask though is a condition that you have the town Supply us with a landscaping plan so we don't go and do something and then have the Town come back and the Gard Club compliance give what give with the I don't know that it's the staff's job to design I mean they yeah not at all I think get some input from the Garden Club so this is going to be we put the Landscaping in and then what staff says we like it we don't like it the council says well I no I think there's a minimum requirement and and they can provide you with the minimum requirements okay I don't think it gets into a specific plant like this plant has to be a kaloa or this plant has to be a rose bush I think it just says here's what your type buffer is and and and we are more than happy to provide him and and Lonnie Kai with an example uh Norms lot which was approved I believe in 2011 has uh a plan that is actually less intense than what today's codes are but gives a good example of what previous uh councils were sort of thinking when they approved a similar type lot next door um I guess the question at hand is whether they would be required uh prior to co to come into full compliance with today's landscape code because if that is the case then it's going to probably be more intense than the approved landscape plan uh for his neighbor um and to the point was we were hoping that this the holistic plan would give an option for a planting plan we wanted to see it as a holistic look at the at all of their Lots if they don't want to go that route and just want to focus on this one lot um I think any approval needs to be specific about whether they are going to be expected to come into full compliance with today's codes uh as far as buffering as far as tree counts all that stuff let me ask you a question has there approval for their the main hotel has that their vegetation that they've done over there has that brought them into full compliance with today's code uh I don't believe I've reviewed anything on that site that would have required uh that has a landscape plan I could talk to Chad about whether or not he's required a landscape planning in uh to bring their uh EC work uh into compliance but staff staff has not seen a planting plan yet for the main site so I don't think I can address whether it's up to code today so what I'm hearing is that we would do the Landscaping they would either approve or disapprove and if they disapprove we be back to front of the council well I I have my thoughts but I'd like to hear from my council members and what they feel about the Landscaping part of it and the lighting for me is more important we have to do that but I don't know what you know we got all these hoops with the turtles now so we know everybody does know everybody does every house does yes I understand understand I I don't know I guess for me if there's a hybrid way I I don't I don't know off the top of my head what would be required can you pull up what what the requirement would be I mean it's hard to make a decision on our end or direct you on your end to make a decision on your side whether or not you're willing to do something if nobody knows what it is yeah like he said he doesn't want to have a blank give us right you know I I think it's fair to say and I think Sarah would agree with me that if we zealously appli today's buffering codes they're going to lose even more parking particularly at the edges of the property uh those buffering requirements are generally in the realm of 10 to 15 feet in depth so they would they would definitely lose some of the exterior parking around the edges and then we would be right back here because they that would be cutting into whatever additional parking they would have for commercial purposes I think and again I think this is why it may be helpful to look back at the plan was approved for Norms they they reduced the the depth of uh those plant of those buffer plantings uh and they had they approved trees that were Palms so they didn't they didn't really spread much uh again I if we're going to have them apply the codes as of today it's it's going to further dim minione the site I don't think that each side of the property is essentially that you have bought is is essentially a parking lot so I mean to be consistent with them to me makes the most sense I I mean I don't want them to have to lose the goal of this in my opinion is not to make them lose parking spots but add some beautification to at least a sterile Boulevard absolutely to to help clean it up to help people from backing out of spots or doing whatever and in staff's opinion because of the way Norms was designed they they've only got five or six feet of clear space between their properties the the line that's perpendicular to to stero so I I think I think we're asking for a few minutes break to see if we can discuss with the applicant what they're willing to accept as far as the uh the buffering requirements I I I have no object anybody have any objection to that I would justum you guys get it taken care of so you can save everybody you plan to continue this and let us come up with a landscaping and lighting plan and come back and that way we have no guess work we'll know what it's going to cost and what it's not going to cost I hate to do that because this is a very expensive Endeavor for the L Guai paying me we paid almost 8,000 and filing fees and you know like to get it resolved I think if they can get it resolved in the next five to 10 I mean at least get closer to where we can try to get again to your point it's expensive for you staff time everybody everybody involved so we'll take a quick 10-minute break and then we'll come back and thank you thanks e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e 419 10 419 yes all right we're going to call the meeting back to order it's 11:59 Bob go ahead for the record Robert bran again I think we've reached an agreement um before the co will be issued we will submit a landscaping plan hopefully the Landscaping we'll have to do the plan first and then get it done but we're also going to ask for an alternative to landc aping under 10- 419 um we've agreed that the Landscaping will be around this there's a little grass around the sign up front to the left when you look at the parking lot and the Landscaping will run between Norm's parking lot and the Lan Kai parking lot and then it will run between the Lan Kai parking lot to the east in the condominium and that plan will be approved prior to the co being issued so that'll be a condition not sure where we left it on the lighting I heard you ask if that should be a condition but yeah we can basically talk that the lot hasn't changed nor has any of the the measures that the lot was being used for in the past so as the lot sits right now it doesn't pose any major concern to drainage that it didn't do previously as far as draining either onto EST stero into the the drainage system that's there or into the back where it joins Santos and into the canal property so as it sit now nothing has changed pre and so it's not an issue correct okay are you in agreement with that Nancy did you hear that part I'm sorry now I was distracted Karen you want to well I was asking about the drainage and Frankie said that nothing on the lot has changed and so I asked the question so that means that drainage is not an issue and Frankie confirmed that drainage was not an issue at this point so at this point as of today my only question would be uh do you want to make that at the time of the um Co to kind of have it lined up so you're saying that you have to have a landscaping plan at the time of the co so at that point let there be an inspection as far as drainage if they pass it and it's okay at that point I mean has staff physically gone out and looked at it yes I've been in the parking lot numerous times myself onto the back part of where it goes into Santos there's there's not a problem with the collection that's there why don't we just simplify it make it just like you're going to do with the lighting why don't we make the drainages part of the the co approval of the hotel itself sure sure we can do it at that time and do an inspection if you look at exhibit one is a picture in your package and it shows the parking lot what page is that in the application this was done I believe say 2023 10223 this was an approved plot layout for the lon Kai in 2023 and I'm going to assume that everything was addressed at that time including drainage that's why I didn't we didn't redo it we had one that was approved by the town in 2023 yeah that's like the end of and those spaces that he said were removed with these ones to the left they removed those to accommodate the town make a point on that and I I brought this up at the LPA meeting earlier uh before what the ldo approval that you're looking at in this package was for was for a very minor job this was for reming and restriping of the parking lot in these processes we don't generally get into the storm water review because it's not large enough to trigger that if if we had to go in and do complete redus of landscaping storm water lighting on anybody that got an ldo literally every lot on this island would be required to come into full compliance with today's codes the type of ldo that they got there was a DI Minimus it was a minor little change to the site literally just milling and restriping their parking lot so at that time that's why the the drainage was not addressed in that process because we were just dealing with such a small ask otherwise all these ldos would require tens if not hundreds of thousands of dollars of work to get approved well I think you kind of made Bob's point there it they're not expanding right parking spaces they're not expanding the building they're not they're not doing anything that they haven't done so that I guess where I'm trying to get it to is the fact that it's going to be a conforming parking lot now legally how does that tie into the requirements are there requirements then because it becomes conforming or is it a policy decision as far as the drainage goes does that make sense it it it does but I understood that um as part of the approval for the variant that there would be a required parking plan and so that parking plan could address and uh make U require one more set of eyes on it and if there hasn't been a problem in the past why would there now be a problem so I I don't think that it is is a I hate to use the word problem again um because if you all uh Robert if you feel like you guys are in compliance it's a non-issue but to give Comfort to those that have a concern just put another set of eyes on it in part of the plan and then when you want that last inspection to occur and if I make may make one more Point here no matter what happens today it's not like the site is going to be completely absolved of storm water requirements in the future the town uh has requirements that you bring it up to code but remember it's the Water Management District ultimately who has the say on any one of these sites so they're still going to be required if in the future they for instance expand the footprint of that building when they come through permitting no matter what happens today they have to look at it Water Management still going to look that's that's what I was getting at right there they're not expanding the parking lot they're not expanding the building itself should they decide to do it in the future it's going to be someone other than the town that determines what they're going to need for drainage I agree okay that clears it up I think at least for me all right any other questions for the applicant all right thank you you all right we'll now open it up for public comment are there any members of the public who wish to comment on this matter if so please come forward to the podium and identify yourself provide your your address and whether you were sworn in any public comment seeing none we'll close public comment I'm guessing there's no additional comments or rebuttal I have nobody all right I will now close the public hearing and request discussion or a motion from the Town Council to approve approve with conditions or deny with reasons or a continuance to a Time certain discussion or motion well I just have a comment yeah go ahead um I I just don't agree with the comment that was made you know it's always been used as public parking um we've done that forever well that doesn't make it right you know just because you've always done it we're holding people to new standards now we're holding people to accountabilities for things um the fact that you're willing to go and look at you know the actual landscaping and the lighting and that type of thing I mean I would not have voted on this positively if you weren't going to do that and the fact that we have the um the agreement that we're going to put it in the co so that makes me feel more comfortable um the water retention and the drainage you know that does bother me I mean we made um other places go through hoops John Rashard went through the whole Hoops with the Landscaping the retention the whole thing um I mean it is a new standard that we're looking at um you know I know it's not changed it hasn't being an issue but if it becomes an issue how do we come back to this even if the parking lot doesn't change how do we come if it becomes an issue like all the other flooding has become an issue on the island how do we come back to this well I think In fairness Karen the John Rashard property he was expanding he he was he was he was he was him to a different level he that's I think what we were just talking about at the end he was held to a standard that he had to meet Swift mud's um the Southwest Water Management District's oh water retention so they were expanding it that's why they had to do it in this case I look it as they aren't expanding anything they're I understand what you're saying if they were adding one space I would agree with you 100% then you've got to go and I think they would have to if they were adding more space they would have to go through this Swift Mud thing to improve the drainage so I agree with you in concept but in this case they're not they're not adding anything at least that I see I mean they're they're actually making it better than what it was even though they're going to continue using it the same as what it was but I agree if they go forward and we've been told that they will have to meet requirements should they decide to change it in the future and also to that Karen is what we'd be doing is uh upon codification of this to go for this coo process is we would have another set of eyes out there it's just not going to be a s we' get our building official out there we'd get somebody to actually take a look at it and make any suggestions at that time not that we're holding up to anything like I said I've been through this property a number of times because of the issues that we're currently having on Santos for some of the homeowners that are are back there um I've been there on rainy days I've been there on Sunny Days that's just me I'm not an expert nor do I play play one on TV but we do have people in house that that are qualified to make those decisions both on sun sunshiny days and on rainy days and we'll definitely have them out there and take a look at it and I think they were agreeable to that okay all right any other comments nope Scott no I'm good John I'm okay thanks Jim yeah I yeah go ahead I I was hoping I could From staff's perspective make a recommendation um to sew this up and that would be to to um do away with the variance request one and two because both of those issues would be dealt with uh through the parking and the Landscaping plant the latter two asks uh probably need to be taken on on their own because those wouldn't be solved or addressed through the the parking and Landscape plan but those are also the more Dom Minimus issues at hand so if if the applicant agrees to do away with the request of one and two approval of three and four on the variance and then approval of the um special exception all predicated on them bringing us a plan and working with us prior to co I I think staff agrees that that would deal with all of their outstanding issues and give us a chance to look at the site holistically can I ask for clarification so the Landscaping plan would be a condition on the special exception or the variances I think we did it on both so I I would defer to you whether that is over either either no either one is fine or both it's the same plan exactly it would satisfy both we just didn't we wanted that plan to to be out there no matter what was approved uh for them to come talk to us about a plan so if if that so restate that so you're looking to to remove variants one and two remove variants one and two if you decide to approve it um um variances three and four are still physically relevant to the site so we could do away with those with the condition that a landscaping or a parking plan be uh provided by the CEO yeah a issuance of the COO so a parking landscaping and lighting plan would be provided to us for that site in lie of getting rid of all of those requirements in um their request number two in variance number two Bob are you okay with that I'm a little confused I think the easiest thing to do and I think Frankie said it but for the record Robert BR I think Frankie said it the lighting will be addressed with the co is that correct does so we don't we we can get a we can remove that condition the only condition that we're agreeing to is that that they provide a land prior to the co being issued they provide a landscaping plan that's approved by the town we have a right to appeal of course to the council if we disagree but I don't think we will and that should be the motion just well the only I think the condition two it ties the lighting and the Landscaping together so I think what what you were saying is by getting rid of that we I think then we could put in a condition in the motion to say that you will provide a landscaping Plan before the issu of get rid of it just to provide make that a condition and it also removes for lighting design requirements such as providing lighting for vehicle just turnaround area de parking two goes on and on and on so I'm suggesting a motion that grants the variances with the condition that we Supply a landscaping plan to the town we also are reserving under 10- 419 and that was at the suggestion of the town and to be honest with you I'm not sure exactly what that is but I would like that the availability to look at 10- 419 and satisfy the town so I guess what we're saying is that we will Prov prior to co we will provide a landscaping plan or an alternative Landscaping plan that's agreeable with staff and then I think the rest of it the rest of the variances should be granted with that condition now if you want to throw Lighting in but again I think lighting is going to come under the co anyway well well here's my concern is if you approve it the way it's written now you're kind of contradicting yourself you're you're you're saying we're approving that you're getting the variance from the lighting and then in the co they're going to come and say you need to come into compliance so we're we're fighting ourselves corre to be approved subject to the lighting requirement you're not approving or the the Landscaping requirement and we're willing to withdraw it as to the Landscaping only because like I said the lighting comes under the co and then approve the rest of it we want to do comment there sir was the the parking lot in question is so small that in order to make it safe for their patrons they're going to have to have a fairly vigorous lighting plan to begin with I understand that but I Frankie I think we're talking about and the fact that Nancy's nodding her head at me I think she understands what I'm saying yes by agree by approving if this was approved for variance number two right right you're fighting yourself and what you're trying to say yes is the way I read it and that's what I'm trying to avoid I have no doubt that you're going to put in the right amount of lighting I just want to make sure that verbally it's done the right way so if there is a variance in here that's approved that it's not going to supersede something that we have to make you come into compliance with through a SE correct me if I wrong but I think if you make it a condition to the approval of the removal of the variances it stands on its own and if you want to say what the light put the lighting and the Landscaping plan I mean I I think I'm fine with that because we're going to have to do it anyway that was going to be my point as well so the the Landscaping lighting plan you could even put drainage in there they're going to comply with it before Co so when someone looks at that plan they're going to say okay compliance compliance so it's really a non-issue but it is that kind of extra checks and balance I'm going to go back to you Mr SMY I see Sarah shaking her head and I think your suggestion to me makes the most sense it's cleanest it's the it's the easiest you you still have the path to comply with what's required to get the CO but I'm I'm going to defer to you I see you guys are shaking your head yes and no over there I'm not sure what you're shaking yes or no too so I'm I'm not a lawyer and I I'm not gonna play one on TV but my understanding is that if we give them a blanket waiver um through this through this uh variance here that they don't have to come in compliance with today's lighting which is what two is doing it's blanket saying you don't have to apply any of this code section that it's coming from what we have is going to be a plan that we hope that everybody agrees to but if at the end of the day we come to loggerheads and they say we don't agree to this they can always defer back to this language and say you've already approved dismissal of all of these requirements in this code section and that's why at this point if we're intending to get a holistic plan and we want everybody to come around the table I don't think just you disarming right at the beginning of the discussion is going to get us very far because ultimately Lon Kai holds all the cards about what what they are and aren't going to put on the lot and whether whether they agree with Frankie or not becomes immaterial because they can always point back to the approval of this variant saying blanket wav waiver of everything in that section that is correct um that was my yeah so um out of the four variances what I've heard is that you want to take the two variances off um number one and number two and only consider granting number three and four with the condition that there is some type of landscaping plan well I think so for me number one again I still read it as I believe CC Safford does to me I read it at a blanket statement that all units even though we've talked about it I'd like to further make that number one be more compliant with I'm I'm I'm okay with agreeing with you when it comes to the amount of spaces versus staff again it's a small amount but I want it to be in the variance that it states that because to me I read this as you're you're getting rid of all parking associated with the 25 5 unit Hotel okay so we'll I'll amend that to say uh 15 spaces the resolution time that a variance to remove required parking associated with the use of the lot as a 25 unit hotel and then we can just add language except for 20 except for 15 spaces maybe we kind of change the the way that's worded uh a variance to require 15 spaces for use of the 25 unit Hotel that'll work if you want to look at number two happy that I have a suggestion we were going to require a parking plan and the parking plan would help determine how many parking spaces were provided how many parking spaces were needed so that way we don't have to nail down right now how many parking spaces are actually because we don't have a full count of both lots that seem to share parking spaces so that was part of the conditions um the landscape vment plan as well as the parking plan you have a parking plan it's exhibit one to the application that was approved by the town in 2023 well that's what I was trying to me I felt like we were talking about this specific property the so the the parking plan would also include the lighting I mean the idea is that it's holistic and that was what we had discussed in in the in between on the break but I'm okay with your language in number one now number two a Varian through site design requirements was agreed vehicle and pedestrian uses I want to cross out the turnaround area sufficient to allow 90° parking at the end of the road the ability to turn around and exit the lot forward orientation stacking requirements additional well you want to leave drainage in I this says additional drainage if you want to just leave take the additional output drainage and parking lot Landscaping prior as in section 10416 or 10419 I could agree to that but isn't Sarah just saying that that's not what you're saying Bob is not what you all agreed to thought the discussion was that I mean the reason we don't need the one and two is because after this we're going to have a condition we're going to have a condition in this that they would provide a landscape betterment plan that would be reviewed by management and a parking plan that would be part of the discussion because we needed to figure out what all the parking on both Lots was if that's not what we discussed and that's not what we agreed to somebody correct me well I I I I get what you're saying I wasn't in your talks but I understand what you're saying but I think what's being missed here at least what I'm hearing is the actual number so they're not comfortable in making an agreement of saying we're just going to give you a plan and you say Noe we still want 40 spaces assigned to this versus what we've been talking about back and forth you're saying 50% they're saying 15 how do you put that in the language to allow that to not be I don't want to go through this exercise we've gone through and then they submit a plan and you're like no we still want the spaces that so if the ideas that were concerned regarding the number of spaces that are available I thought that the concern was more that it may not be the number that it says in the code and there may be additional flexibility that could provided and that we don't know how we're enforcing that regulation so I thought leaving it more flexible looking at the sites holistically was a better option for everybody but if that is not the case and we want to specify how many parking spaces are required I mean we can point to what the code says which 67% of the required parking would be required we can either I mean they could ask for a variance from that too though they could say they want to vary from that requirement but how do we evaluate that and how do we actually enforce that there's a parking plan it's exhibit one for this parking lot they want to incorporate all the Lan Kai properties and we're not prepared to do that at this time we've given them the information they need to do that but I don't want to make that contingent on this I want this to pass we're in the middle of season they need to try and generate some Revenue um so again 15 parking bases I think the determination was made that it's Bayfront so it's 50% not 67 and then we're we're willing to go with uh having a requirement that there be a light and a landscaping plan and the rest of it should stand on its own we're willing Tove 15 spaces if I can interject I don't think staff is comfortable with the Bayfront definition no I know they're not right in order for this to go anywhere but I thought the mayor already kind of made it no no I no I did not I I no I I I saw where they I saw exactly what they meant when it comes to Bayfront however it doesn't it doesn't mean that you we can't discuss parking spaces right right we can compromise and say 17 18 that that's what I'm trying to get at I agree with staff and their determination that bought the bay front based on what we looked at on 34- whatever it was that however that I also agree with you that you know the spaces at the end of the day I think we've all agreed and again I don't want to speak for my fellow council members but at the end of the day you're the only one that's going to be in trouble if you don't have enough spaces for the people that are going to stay at your unit correct or not and I don't want something to be hung up on something that we have to worry about enforcing and not enforcing and you know whether you have 15 or 20 spaces we're not going to be out there saying hey youve rented 21 spaces just that makes perfect sense that's the whole purpose of the Land Development code with our dep paring is to make sure if a business is operating they have enough spaces on their own property to House people that was the whole purpose of that section Mr you seem extremely close to being able to make a motion and I encourage you to give it a St well I yeah but I'm just trying to get there to where I I'm not giving heartburn to to the staff and and try to make it to me staff seems more comfortable by not including variances one and two and and I'm I'm okay with keeping one in there but using the verbiage that you two have worked out agreed you know at least that clarifies that at least in my mind I don't know if it clarifies it for concert Happ but at least that eliminates that concern that all the parking can be used for I agree I'm okayy you're going to leave in this turn n please okay so uh saying that the parking and Landscaping plan approving 15 spaces for use uh as a for use for the 25 unit motel hotel motel so in the plan itself you're saying that there's going to be 15 or does it make how many is there again there so many 40 was there 43 is that how many park space 43 spots yeah determined by staff we've agreed at two prior LPA meetings that there's 43 spots so the the 43 number it came from the requirement of 1.2 parking spaces per unit 20 25 time 1.2 I apologize for doing math I'm not very good at it that's the number needed the number of total spots is 43 then the number the number of needed spots is 30 and before the 33% discount so what if you want to put a specific number that they may not go below to serve the actual use on that lot it would be 60 it would be 33% discount of 30 parking spaces so what that is is 30 times 33 a reduction of of 10 parking spaces so what they would actually have is you would be approving no less than 20 parking spaces dedicated to their main use which is the hotel use anything left over is up for discussion and can be dealt with during the parking drain or the parking Landscaping lighting uh process that we're going to go through so if you want to put a number on there I think 20 is the is the bare minimum I do I do not agree with the 15 okay based on their interpretation of where the The Pedestrian lot is or The Pedestrian pathway is again if you look at 34676 A2 the number is a 50 multiplier is 50% I mean at the end of the day now you said 17 they're saying there three parking spaces really a huge discrepancy in the grand scheme of things me as Ken I don't I mean but you're establishing a precedent I guess so and I think since the code is unclear the tie should go to the runner and this case theant but that's just of course does only playing testimony so you have your planners ex interpreting your code for you with their so how does that apply so I think we've agreed on variance number one the variance number two is so that will go away but we would put a condition in or you can leave it providing lighting for vehicle and pedestrian use and Landscaping but I I want you to take out this turnaround area sufficient to allow 90 degree parking at there blah blah blah and all that stuff additional stackage if you want to leave the drainage in there I mean that's fine but I think we need to cross out all the middle stuff and I'll rely on the attorney to um so I'm I'm back at variance number one uh so so the variance request is is to eliminate all of it so now you are willing to reduce it is it 20 or is it 15 because you're said no less than 20 I'm I'm going to go with staff on this and go with the 20 that's when I make a motion that's what I'm going to make so okay with that so then number two you're modifying the variance and the request is to change what is currently before Council to do what to eliminate we want to eliminate a variance to remove site design requirements so you don't want to you're okay doing site design requirements because that would be in your in your plan your parking plan Sarah saying no we're not doing a new parking plan we've got a parking plan it's exhibit one okay so so you're not requ you're saying that you no longer need a variance for that for the design requirements correct okay because there is no design requirement correct may I make a point here as far as lighting and everything that's separate but we're going to go specific to lighting I think is that so the turn the turnaround issue is not a big issue to staff uh that was part of the section that's the reason it got into here but they generally have dealt with that problem by removing those five parallels through the previous ldo process so if they want to get rid of that requirement in in this approval that's fine because they've already done it um as far as their ldo is concerned okay now the one the one problem with stacking is if we get rid of that requirement and the whole issue of having a condition of approval where they do not interface with the customer until they're 40 feet into their lot is meant to do the same thing to avoid stacking onto a stero if you want to develop a gate on a stero for your condo property that gate has to be set 40 ft back from the from the Estero to give the the chance for two or three cars to be able to to get onto the lot without backing up a stero Our concern here is not that they have a gate necessarily but this per we want them to engage with the car not at the very edge of the property where anybody behind them would then be stacked into a stero we want them to meet the requirements just like if you had a fence where you don't talk to them until you're 40 feet into the property to give a chance for multiple people to stack up behind as they're talking to the attendant so you're just asking them to take their stand where it's at now on a stero and move it back closer to the move it into the property 40 ft from the from the property line and that's where they would engage with them and it's the it's there to basically be a proxy for people that have Gates on a stero we want them held at the same requirements because we know stacking does happen sure if we decide to put a gate up we would we would agree with that but there's no gate going up that I'm aware of and y'all been down a stero this traffic is slow and moving slow so there's really no stacking issue and there hasn't been has anybody ever complained to councel or staff about not stacking issue I know about slow traffic but I think your question should be has there ever been somebody that hasn't complained right about traffic and whatever reasons well I don't think the Lenny guy that driveway is going to make a difference um so I would ask I mean we're jumping now we're requiring more requirements we agreed to the Landscaping we agreed to the lighting and we agreed to review the drainage and that's you know I got to draw a line here somewhere now we're talking about turnarounds and and moving the stand back and uh limit driveway with 25 ft I think those have to come out well I I think In fairness we were willing staff's recommendation is to completely remove the request for variance number two altogether not peac mail it like you're trying to do and I'm trying to understand what it is that you're fighting for to keep it in there that doesn't give a blanket that doesn't give a blanket approval that contradicts a CO if I remove that then we have to comply with all these things because we're not getting a variance from these things so we remove it we have to comply with stacking requirements uh turn around and exit the lot and a forward orientation we have to comply with all those that's why we're asking for variance to not have to comply with those I I get that but staff is pretty pretty factual about what they what they believe in what they think is going to be beneficial so you know I'm trying to trying to we're getting close but this was based on the fact that we were removing we were taking this from a shared parking lot to a completely commercial parking lot and that was the thing the LBA had trouble with if you're going to do that then we want you to come in complete compliance with everything we met with staff and we agreed that we would not open it up to a general parking lot we would comply with the statute the ordinance that says that you're allowed to have 1.2 for every unit we agreed that there was 43 units at the LPA and we agreed on the number was 30 what we didn't realize at that time is that there was a 67 Factor when I pointed that out to staff they agreed and said okay the number is 20 so we keep opening this door now and making things more it just doesn't seem fair none of this was discussed at the LPA um I thought we had an agreement that just going to do the landscap at that point I thought we had an agreement we were just doing landscaping now we're talking about lighting and drainage so we're kind of pushing this a little bit in my opinion remember this was a legal non-conforming use right and you're ask you're asking for it to become a legal conforming correct but the law says that if you're in existence prior to the statute or the ordinance or even the incorporation that you don't have to come into compliance you I I hate to use the word grandfathered in but I think that's the common term most people understand um so we this is an effort for us to come into compliance and satisfy staff on the legal side I don't believe we have to I think we're a legal non-conforming use so I mean there's got to be some give and take here and I think Frankie's expressed it and I appreciate his responses you know we came into this when I first met with staff I made it emphatically clear that we were not doing a landscaping we were not doing drainage we were not going to come compliance the only thing we agreed with was keeping that road open and back so we moved forward based on that premise we went to the LPA they granted the variances they granted the actually they granted the special exception before the variances which kind of puts the cart before the horse but um so I just I don't understand why we got to do all this other stuff now that's so I'm I'm very uncomfortable with this because five years from now I'm not sure what is being given what isn't and I I have an obligation to make sure that you all know what you're voting on specifically um the request that you have before you is for variances if they want to modify that my suggestion would be that we require them to put it in writing as to specifically what they're asking us for um and then I think you could make your decision based on that because right now there it's changing to much and again I want to make sure that you know exactly what you're getting and what you're not getting so maybe another uh break and maybe we proceed with the rest of our agenda when they're ready they come back we can just continue it um for an hour or so let them figure it out or continue to another continue or continue I mean this has gotten to the point where we continue to another meeting yeah I I I think we should agree to councel and continue this so everyone can be on the same page is that a motion I would so move I'll second to the date certain of February 21st for both items well he's the motion I'm sorry sorry uh for the first it got a quicker calendar there's a motion get through that then we'll I I think we all we got a proced we got there's already been a motion and there's been a second so we got to we got to let that play out and then we can have discussion after that and then we have to take a vote we should be voting on both of the items because we have a variance and we also have a special exception so it should be two votes if you want to continue both of them to a subsequent meeting we have a discussion can I make a point I I think in a second hold on I just want to make sure procedurally we're doing it the right way right it what is the date certain to to the next town meeting which is on February 18th 18th sorry 18th which Tuesday the 18th and that would be um vice mayor that is for uh the variances yes ma'am okay thank you and are you as a seconder are you amending your second to I'm assuming date date certain of February 18th okay is there another date I have a mediation all day on that date what's the meeting after that going to March March March 4th no the March 3rd March is that better I would I would amend the motion accordingly and the second I'll second accordingly okay okay Scott go ahead discussion I I think we've all agreed that we can give them a special exception am I not I think the hangup is on the variances well we that's a second that would be a second motion this is specifically just for the variances we're only voting on The variances right now B so and the request is to continue it and then we'll take there'll be a second motion for the As far as the disposition of the special exception correct fine um cool okay we got a motion and a second to continue till March 3rd uh any further discussion John none okay Vice May hi councelor Woodson hi counc Safford hi uh councelor King hi and I'll be an i as well that motion carries unanimously then let's go to the where am I at special ex special exception oh I dropped myself down here do I have to read the title again because we did that before so we're good move we approve the special exception um resolution 2528 1479 is sterile where is public did we do public comment on the Varian we did did yeah no one no one came spoke yes okay so you've made a motion to approve the special exception special exception is that okay we got a motion by councelor Safford is there a second I'll second for discussion Nancy can we do that or in the same do we have to I don't want to do the same thing that the lp had to go they really should be traveling together um we're kind of separating them I mean if you granted the special exception you're granting the use um but they're not going to be able to do anything with their special exception because they need the variances in order to operate the way that they're operating they should both so it's kind of a what's your legal opinion we should I I think you should keep them together I would recommend that you continue this one and let them travel together and then when the Varian has come back you would have a better picture of of the entire situation okay then can I resend my second or do we have to take a vote because there was a motion in a second proced you could I think you can resend it I'll resend it okay as well is there you like to amend your motion then or have a new one or have a new one whichever a lot we want yeah go ahead I'll make a motion to continue the special exception to a date certain of March 3rd yes 2025 at 9:00 A.M yes now is there a second I'll second all right got any further discussion I'm an i counc Woodson hi counc Safford hi Vice May hi counc K hi motion carries unanimously wow that was yeah I tried all right next is a six-month review of approved resolution 2387 for a special exception secz 202312 six that allows temporary outdoor consumption on premises with retail use at 163 old San Carlos Boulevard do I need to go through all of this probably should okay should but I don't know that we have um she's here she's here okay okay very good any Town Council M has had any expart communication to disclose please let us know the subject discussed and the identity of the person group or entity with whom the communication took place any correspondence that you received or observations made of the site councilor King I received uh an email against it vice mayor IAH hope I don't believe I've received anything in a long time I I have received uh emails against it um as well as complaints for the the noise um and I've obviously been by the site many many times conc wson I too have received emails and complaints about the noise and the lateness of the music counc Safford uh didto all right Judith Frankle has been qualified as an expert W by This Town Council based on her education and experience has been accepted as an expert witness in the field of land use planning and development of the town of Fort Myers Beach are there any other individuals who would like to be qualified as an expert witness on behalf of the applicant at this time has the property owner applicant seen a copy of the agenda backup materials from the staff yes yes she says yes okay go ahead Judith good afternoon Judith Frankle uh principal planner um so this we talked about six months ago almost exactly um uh August 7th so you granted a six-month extension of the initial one-year period for the special exception for 163 old San Carlos Boulevard so now we're at the end of that six month period so you have the ability to um uh further extend the special exception if you choose I did want to remind you from the the meeting minutes um what transpired in August um at that time uh no permit applications were submitted because uh their insurance was still in litigation the property owner reported um that she was waiting for the property to be sold in in Texas and then would begin in repairing the building um the tiki bar was open at Friday and Saturdays I believe that's the continued pattern um uh at that meeting council member Woodson indicated the music was too loud uh Miss bah replied that she would turn down the Amplified music at 10 p.m. um staff reached out to co- compliance and there were no open um notices of violation we did hear since the postcards went out from I think two um nearby residents um who were unsatisfied with the the noise volume but had not actually filed formal complaints um so those two that came in to me I did forward to Code Compliance so they were going to look into it the those um residents pointed out the noise but also um signs being uh like an A-frame sandwich boards kind of sign being left in the um on the sidewalk um which would not be permitted um um but as I said there we don't have any open notices of violations for the property and code agree to look into those two complaints but um they're going to need people to make a formal complaint um so that they can they can investigate it so the the applicant the owner is here if you have any questions for them see if anybody's got any questions for you first okay Scott any questions from J right not right now okay I'll hold mine that's no I don't have any rate this time okay thanks come on up mayor may I ask the applicant did you have any questions that you wanted to ask any of the council members regarding their disclosures because they did disclose that they had received some emails um I was only advised by Judith of one particular email and provide a copy of that okay how many how many emails are we talking yeah how many emails did you guys get multiples or because we'd like to make sure that they're aware of what you were able to read and this was as of Friday right I was provided one email I I I don't I I could be wrong but I don't think I received any I'm only seeing one that I received on January 30th is that the one you have January 30 that was the one yes okay yeah that's that's mine is that's the most pertinent but you've unfortunately been wrapped into a couple other emails about other issues and going back to your your property has been referenced I can't give you does that make sense I guess but I haven't been provided with those emails regarding my property and referencing so what are the emails I have to look them up Susie I mean I mean I mean Judith provided me the one with the um so a lot of it a lot of it just generalities that just we don't want our Our Place turned into the downtown District where there's loud music going on constantly um did they specifically say your place but no it was inferred that does that make sense well if they didn't say mine specifically were pretty it was pretty inferred well did they come out and say mine well the one I'm referring to is was from Wednesday January 29th with Judith you forwarded to me I don't know if you forwarded it to everyone my our typical process is I send them to Amy so Amy can kind of keep track um oh I'm right oh no yeah this I'm sorry you sent it to Amy this it was forwarded to me from this Gloria and it does specifically mention you by name right that was the one I that's the one I'm referring to the only now regarding the Gloria email um I believe that was the one that you provided to me um the house that that she lives in is literally the first house behind the parking lot of what is John Rashad's parking lot so she is the first house behind the commercial Entertainment District Old St Carlos Boulevard of Fort Meers Beach um when I initially opened she and her husband were there almost on the daily and they also had no windows in the back of their house house they had tarps on the back of their house and then they proceeded to put up which is their prerogative that's fine um picture windows across the back of their house okay but they're literally the house that is right behind the entire Old St Carlos Boulevard which is the commercial Entertainment District of the speech you're going to have some residual noise I mean I mean my knowledge of Fort Meers Beach and I lived here my whole life is that old San Carlos Boulevard was developed before the residential areas that was the first portion of the beach and it's entertainment it's still essentially the only entertainment now I will say this as far as the noise complaints and I have brought my I mean since we're going to start with noise complaints cuz there were stipulations per the last meeting that I come into or make progress on things which I have done um I have my DJ here um we have never had music past 10 p.m. no I haven't Karen I've heard it I live there you're not hearing me I shut down every night by 10 p.m. on purpose you may be hearing Mr waves you may be hearing Yucatan you may be hearing a plethora of others because I still hear Mr waves when I shut down I live in a camper behind that and my camper is still shaking but I'm I'm the one that's being targeted as it's my music I'm just telling you I also have video with my deel meaner of various other esta L Ms on old San Carlos Boulevard past 10 p.m. but nobody's out in front of mine with a dustable meter they're just saying oh it's Susie Q and to your to your comment Scott about turning the downtown into Miami Beach or what what was I'm sorry no no so so here here's the issue the issue and I I think we can all work together okay to to figure this out so your your question was how many emails did you receive I think we're all in agreement that we've we've received that one email on 29th or 30th but there's a there and this hasn't even come before us yet but we still get copied on emails about this food truck going over here and they they don't want the noise they don't nothing about Miami Beach they they are referencing the noise on old San Carlos okay so they're not picking on you per se but it's it's reference that that noise whether it's coming from you or Mr Wes or wherever it's coming from so that was a concern of that neighborhood okay that's fine and I appreciate that clarification but I was only provided with the one email yeah and that that was that was pretty much the the email and I believe there were a couple six months ago same issue I haven't seen any other than that one later later last week that specifically referenced your place okay well if I'm if I'm going going to be made to comply which is fine then everybody else is going to be made to comply and we're going to have a uniform system of how we apply these regulations you should be having people out there with decel met deciel meters so where are the time date stamped videos of my establishment going above the deal me because I'm going to tell you I live directly behind my bar in a camper because I can't live in my house I hear Mr waves constantly 1 1:30 in the morning and I sit there and I think I'm going to get blamed for this I have people that want to party way past 10:00 on a Friday and Saturday night but and and that's fine but I shut my music down and my employees were here but they had to leave U this is my DJ Jean Carlos he is here and he will testify that we are shut down a lot of times earlier than 10:00 so if you're going to accuse me of something then I need evidence that I've done something wrong because I'm tired of being targeted now I I'm just I'm just trying to survive after everything I've lost I mean you ask that I get a contractor I have Steve Maldonado has been here for hours um you asked that I get an appraisal that's scheduled um I'm in federal court fighting FEMA insurance my house in Texas is for sale what am I supposed to do with that bar building my contractor is in talks with Joe Speck has been in talks the de demolition has been extended out because we're working on a plan to get some sort of progress made but I have to have income to do that and I have to have liquidity to do that let me ask you on that point there I understand what you're saying 5,000 people on the island that are residents are going through the same problem you are some are in different degrees so including all of us sitting up here so we certainly understand how hard it is to come back from a storm like that right we sympathize with you however part of your argument is that this is financially hard for you yet you're only open one day maybe two times a week you're not open every day I'm open every day then my eyes lie to me CU When I go by half the time you're closed um we closed last week on Thursday because I was sick with a respiratory infection my point is and I was only open 3 days over the summer months and then I was closed September October November and I did not come back I took everything off before Milton I would not bring anything back until after Hurricane Season because I wasn't going to lose what I have left and again I sympathize I'm just trying to get and I agree with Scott I think there's something we can get to here but it we all have been struggling M it's you're you're no different than anyone else I'm aw your your circumstances may be different than mine or anyone else sitting up here but I could tell you as a small business owner we all work our butts off after Hurrican to stay survive and we're not closed any day for whatever reason because we can't because in your point we're trying to survive we're trying to get back to where we were right so I I I pause a little bit when you say that but when I go by you're closed I'm closed because because I don't have the ability to hire staff additional staff to stay open it's either I work or what I have works and they're not always available continue I do what I can Dan understand so maybe this might be helpful um in the resolution on page 369 of your agenda materials are the conditions and her uh role today is to show that um these conditions have not been violated um that might put into context a little bit better you're talking about section three um on 3 369 section four section four there we go so let me ask you Frankie I know at the last discussion there was it was the intent to show progress right does the staff feel and I don't know if you should be asking or the other staff does the staff feel that there's been any progress ress or I don't want to use the word significant but has there been any progress at all on the property that we're talking about not 160 for3 but the one next door because that's what originally it was so so you're talking about the the the structure yeah well I know I know I had had a meeting with you and your mom we sat here we talked about that and I'm just wondering if there's been any no there hasn't it doesn't appear that there's been any violations so to speak but has there been any progress with permits or clean up or not not at the meantime no so I know there's discussions going on with Joe spec about what can be done with that that's where it was left I'm not privy to any other discussions what discussions have you had with Joe um Steve do you want to come up sure this is my contractor Steve Maldonado um he Joe and I have been in conversation my demolition has been pushed out because we have to have an appraisal done the appraisal once we get that done will allow us to work with Joe more precisely on that 50/50 rule so you said demolition so is it your plan to De demo that building we have to establish the value to see if we're at uh below the 50% rule so that's what I'm waiting on it's supposed to be in the next 10 days the appraisal just curious you don't have to get angry about I'm just curious why is it taking two and a half years to get that appraisal um it costs money of course it does and I'm doing the best I can I have other expenses outside of this that are very high okay anyway Steve do you want to talk to your point of your conversation with Joe spe sure Steve Maldonado uh m a l d o n a d o Coast to Coast Construction I've been sworn in um I had a conversation with Joe Joe spec because she wanted to get the building um built back up again after the hurricane um the issue was that there was a uh demolition uh proposal I guess for the building um for whatever reason I don't know why but when I came to talk to Joe spec he says there has to be progress we can see what's going on so at that point I got involved to help her get the appraisal and to see with the engineer and all the money that needs to be the 50/50 rule to see if it even can be done so that's where we're at right now the appraisal has been set for I believe in the next 10 days um and then as soon as that's done the engineer and I going to sit down try to see if the numbers are going to work and if they do work great then we'll submit for a permit and hopefully you know start uh fixing her her property uh but up until now um we're just on a on a on a holding pattern right now because of the appraisal and unfortunately there's so many people that are looking for appraisals right now they're kind of running a little bit behind um but we're we're definitely up to speed with it and we have made some progress to to get her moving along so that we can make this process a little bit faster at one point and maybe this is a question for Joe but at one point was the property de red tagged was it deemed unsafe or is that not I I don't know I'll ask Joe then that's fine Joe's here I'll I'll ask him but so you think in the next 10 days you should have that appraisal back to determine whether you're going to have to demolish it or or build it correct okay and what is the plan if it's got to be demolished maybe that's a question for you Susie um the plan is I'm just going to sell it I'm selling everything and if you can build it under the 50% rule then I'll redo it okay otherwise you know I'm done okay just question for Joe real quick if you don't mind sure about the red tagging was it I don't know if it was or wasn't at some point I thought I heard it was red tagged yes it was and so you deemed it as substantially damaged I deemed it as unsafe unsafe okay but not had nothing to do with the damage just it was an unsafe bill is it still red tagged yes so she came to me right after being red tagged and asked for an extension because her intention was to um rebuild it restore it and I gave her that permission because I can't really determine substantial damage or not until there's some kind of a proposal to the town okay so yours was for unsafe that's that's the clarity I want it wasn't substantially damaged it was an unsafe structure correct okay that that that helps okay that's all I need that's all I need unless anybody else has a question for Joe that was my question okay thanks Joe didn't me to pull you away I know you're probably pretty busy okay questions for Sarah John for S I'm sorry oh got questions for Sarah too s what any questions for Susie sir did I fall asleep during this meeting you're still dreaming of parking lots um nothing currently all right vice mayor I don't in in full confession I watched your interview on beach talk radio so I think I got a pretty good fact pattern of what you've been going through so I don't have any additional questions okay K I'm good I'm good right now okay um the only other thing I I I did go down there just to walk by this weekend and I don't have a decimal meter I don't have wasn't at 10 o'clock it was the middle of the day you were obviously open the DJ was playing I don't know if it was you sir or not it was and I could hear word for word everything that was being played on the corner at s so and and people were uncomfortable so your neighbor restaurants patrons were uncomfortable at the level that was being played this weekend and I heard it firsthand so I don't know if it could have been bouncing off the building out know but it was very very loud to the point where people sitting on the railing were like where's that music coming from so just giving you that information that it it is very loud even during the middle of the day so just wanted to give you that I think it's how we're situated to be honest between the two buildings um I I don't know if it just Echoes there that's possible okay but I'm just giving you that for for future reference that it take a walk down you you'll hear exactly what I heard it was it was it was I mean IE the music was good doing a good job I mean I was dancing I'll give you that but it was it was you could it was very loud okay um that's all I have I guess I do have uh for clarification So within next 10 days you'll know whether you're going forward or not then correct okay approximately I am at the discretion of his schedule I was told approximately 10 days so I should clarify that so I would like to clarify that a little bit so the um the appraiser said Steve we're going to get to you as soon as we can right now he's saying 10 days um he may have an issue that comes up in maybe 15 so but was he did say 10 days from when he comes out to say it when he comes out right once he comes out and cess though it's going to take you guys a couple couple three weeks to figure out hey what the number you can make the you kind of have I'm sure in your head what more or less yes more or Les I mean can't I'm not going to pinpoint it but you've got a ballpark so if those numbers work correct and you say hey I think we can do this then you're going to submit it to the town and go through the process correct and again I I I think that what you know and she's she's trying really hard to to try to get this done um I mean there's been times when she calls me on Saturday and Sunday and text messages at night because she's very desperate to get this done um so she is trying really hard because she has been calling me a lot um um and I have told her that I would you know try to help her as best as I can and to do whatever I can to to to get it going um but I I think within the next 10 days 15 days we'll get it and then of course like you said it'll probably take a couple of weeks to kind of put everything together um so we can submit the permit um and see how we can get this done for her as quickly as possible all right thank you can I have one question Susie and I I sort of didn't want to ask a lot of these questions because it's I don't want to I want to respect your privacy but you did share the other on Saturday just about some of your plight and I guess I'm curious just my former Insurance Camp you're in litigation right now with your insurance company uh is is it the insurance is is it is the litigation preventing you from tearing down the building because you need it to before the a lot of people are are being told they can't tear down their building because until the litigation uh issue is settled with their insurance company they can't tear it down is it that or is it the wait the awaiting of a potential settlement is that's holding you back or is it both both so they are actually telling you as part of the no I'm sorry Jim um they issued me a check and then they put a stop payment on it we don't know why they won't answer questions and this is a company that's that that you're insured through through through FEMA correct yes sir yeah this is Baker's insurance which is FEMA back to flood insurance and I had to we spent two years trying to negotiate they'd start they'd stop they'd start they'd stop now we have taken them to Federal Court actually my attorney Bob barant is heading that lawsuit we had a um an up uh they were supposed to respond to the court by January 2nd and they asked for another 30-day extension so they had till February 2nd and I guess my question is is the ins insurance company asking you not to take action on that building until the litigation is solved or is it more of an issue of you're just waiting for that for that check not to not to be canceled and to be able to proceed accordingly with your life well that insurance policy was the insurance to grant me continuation of my life no no I totally get you I just in some instances people are told not to tear down no I haven't been said that I haven't been told that excuse me that's fine thank you mhm okay thanks uh public comment are there any members of the public who wish to comment on this matter if so please come forward to the podium and identify yourself provide your address and whether you were sworn in is there anyone that would like to speak in public comment come on up how are you good morning my name is Jan J Caro address 13 A5 water B court for Myers I'm a DJ with see I'm I'm employed for her I've been playing I've been working at the beach uh I've been doing different things DJ server uh I was uh front of the house manager Philipe sakaria all of these places have been doing entertainment too H playing all of them I never got a complain on anyone anyone play music yukatan I play music uh any any any spot at the beach I've been playing um I didn't got any complaint before ER I turned on I sh down my music at 10 and I left because I have I have equipment I have lights I I I try this to set up everything nice for for create Ambience for the people to come and enjoy H when I live left home uh around 11:30 maybe midnight you're still hearing music around and it's so so so so loud ER I don't want to lose my job I don't I I wanna I want to be employed I want to help Susi to grow I want to grow with the beach too because I love the beach is it's an amazing spot I I I think H I'm not looking for Miami it's not it's not my style sorry sorry it's not my side of course that that's not that's not what I'm looking for uh if you pass and you hear the music it's it's a mix of everything is a it's everything is is is feelings okay thank you thank you appreciate you anyone else like to be speak in public comment see thenone we'll close public comment do you have any Susie do you have any additional comments I mean I guess you could come up if you wanted I guess I'll just get rid of my DJ well no one is telling you down music no one is tell no one's telling you that you don't have no one's telling you that we're just I me Su you got you got you got one email for sure right last week I I guess I never said you know turn this into Miami Beach I I you I've been at your place you know I love your place right I mean I and and I'm a small business owner I I want small businesses to to survive I want you to employ people mhm we just got to do it right if there's if okay think and I think he's willing to do that if somebody comes by and complains we have a process we go through just got to be a good neighbor well just I'm trying to be but I don't feel that everybody else is being held to my standard under the council that's how I feel Well you certainly entitled to your opinion and and no one's targeting you nobody's targeting all I've been trying to is give you constructive I go to your place well just I've had singers that have come and they're not loud enough people want louder music so I hire a DJ he's too loud I shut my music off I get blamed for the continuation of music I I I don't I don't know how to win anymore I really don't so I guess I'll just play what I have or bring the music down to where you know it can just be heard exactly on my property well you you even mention that that you maybe it's a setup type thing thing like where you're set up or how you're set up that the music reverberates or whatever is there a way to look at options of where your setup takes place so that you're not right on the street you're not it's not going up against all the other bar and restaurants is there a way to relook at that and set things up differently that you maybe don't have that reverberation everywhere that would be more of yeah something yeah I think some of that back neighborhood um towards the the North End of the Island right that does get some of that axillary sound it's because you're going over that bay that yes and that amplifies the water so anything that cross to the water you can be sitting there on a still night and whisper something and have somebody hear it on the other side so it just if if anything to miss Woodson's uh thing or what Scott was saying is just try to be cognizant of that and try different things until you find that yeah I mean got to be a sweet spot excuse me Frankie I mean if you look at what the whale went through a year ago and rude shrimp and rude shrimp and we were going you know six months to six months to six months and they they all had noise complaints and they and the comeback from them was hey we will work with if somebody has a complaint come by see what we're doing and we'll turn it down you just got to be a good neighbor I mean we don't want to throttle small small businesses but at the same time we all have to coexist and I'm not cons if if there's an issue with the other places those have to be those have to be complaint driven and we've got staff to handle those complaints okay but I I think what what we want to do is is is have a symbiotic relationship where we give you your blessing to to make money employ people move forward uh everything here you're you're you're making a a a clean effort to move forward and that's what we're looking for just be a good neighbor okay that's all we're asking for well atast that's I have to modify everything which is fine and I will to accommodate right we're not asking you to fire him or close everything down just you be a good neighbor if you get people com by say a ass it's too loud so what you do well it's only been one person that has said that to me and I believe they're the elderly couple that lives on Third Street okay and we did turn it down so okay thank you did you Judith you looks like you wanted to say something yeah I was just going to summarize um and point you back to the initial um special exception that was approved um it had to be in accordance with Section 3488 staff determined that it has the ability to be in compliance with all of that um Point e is the one I think that we're talking about um here about whether it's compatible with existing planed uses and not cause damage Hazard nuisance or other justment um so that's the one I would point you to in in considering um section four of that uh special exception that was approved has some conditions in it um you may want to consider additional conditions at this time if you're thinking you want to extend the the special exception further um that would be the place to to add in something additional um uh we didn't talk about the sign in the sidewalk um that should be removed um you know you would need a special permit to put something in the right of way and you wouldn't be permitted to have removable In fairness In fairness to her there's been no code violation for that either we're not catching it or people aren't turning it in but in her defense there's been no code violation for this sign but if it's happening it can't continue to happen but it's our job to violate someone if they're breaking the code correct I would also say to the general public instead of being upset and sending me an email send it to Code Compliance I mean I can obviously forward emails to co- compliance but they they need to have that that record for you know legal and to to pursue any action they have to have that so if it gets Nancy if it get sent to her and she forwards it to code is that an official code complaint or is it got to go directly code well I I don't think that part matters but they they have to um I mean going to look at at Frankie for how their process works but they have to to see the violation it's not enough for correct something like that I I think we were aware of that the sandwich board in the sidewalk a number of times and we've gone and they've addressed it immediately when when they were asked okay so when the but your point is several times I got it okay thanks all right I'll now close the public hearing request a discussion or motion from Town Council to approve approve with conditions deny with reasons or a continuance to a Time certain so this one's a little bit different okay because um basically we're looking at section four and item e and section four talks about um if any of these conditions U are violated then the approval of the special exception is null and void so what you'd be looking for is um a motion saying that they have not violated the conditions there hasn't been competent substantial evidence provided to you that that would show that um items a through D were violated okay A through e oh that's e is just divided a d okay discussion or motion I guess I have a question okay um so are we looking at another six months are we looking at what happens when this um appraisal comes back which is supposed to be 10 days and then they get it back are we looking at 3 months maybe and instead to get through season and then by that time all of the appraisal work should be done and we'll can know then what's going to happen with the building if it's going to be um demolished or whatever I I for me it's important to know what's going to happen with that other building yeah I'm comfortable with a six-month I if you're suggesting going to three months I think six months is is is to allow her chance to get get through her insurance issues um I we can't control that but I would really like to see some significant movement on that building one way or another and I know it's going to depend on your appraisal but it sounds like within six months you should be able to get a decision because of through that appraisal whether you're going to tear it down and sell it or rebuild it um hopefully by then your insurance works out so I I guess I'll I'll make a motion to approve the special exception with the added condition that we need to have um a definitive answer on that building on whether you're going to tear it down or whether it has to come down or whether you're going to rebuild it uh I think that's fair six months is is enough time unlike you Scott I don't I don't well I'll discuss it after but the motion is to approve the extension of the special exception for an additional six months um with with the caveat of adding the condition that within six months we need to have a definitive answer on the the adjacent property you okay with that yeah I'll second got a motion in a second um discussion so the discussion part was is hopefully you will just take the again just constructive criticism of of what I heard personally walking down the street in the middle of the day um you know we all as Scott said we all got to work together we all got to live together on this island the people that live in a residential neighborhood you know they're they're protected the same rights that you are as a business owner on old San Carlos and I agree with you if there's violations that are happening that we're not catching that's on us and town staff to address um I don't think that anybody's being treated any differently than you are um I certainly sympathize you're very emotional about your situation and as we all are we all are going through very tough things so we just need to be good neighbors um you know you can still have fun it doesn't have to be your your you're blowing music right we can still have fun um I'm more concerned with dancing in the sand that's a little more difficult for me but so so with that hopefully you'll take and hopefully everything works out for you Suzie the way that um you know it needs to work out but um I think in six months we can revisit this do I have to add in the motion I already made a motion in a second so it doesn't matter yeah you're fine okay any further discussion Mr Mayor yes sir for the record Susie could could could we just yield to Susie just for a second to speak out of order just for a second just to let people know folks who are still watching when you're open and what what what people could expect when they come to your place well here's the problem um weather has been a big issue um it was exceptionally cold my my venue is very very affected if it's too hot if it's too cold if it looks like rain um if it's raining if it's too windy people don't want to sit outside do you do you do you post something on your website where people I do I have a Facebook page and would you say what that is so people want Suzie Q's Tiki Bar and treasures right now we say that we're open 12 to 9 but it's just I I have one bartender that got in a car wreck I have another one that's got a bad back and then there's me and it's just been a culmination this year totally get that I guess my question is if somebody wanted to check and they're plan on they could and we try to update that as much as we can great thank you and when they get there what should they expect what what what what does what do you serve what just talk a little bit about tell so we're a little bit about the we're just a bar I mean we're just a bar on Sand and we've got great prices and we've got entertainment um adjusted volume entertainment but um we try to just offer a kickback relaxed atmosphere that's affordable to just chill and have a drink okay thank you all right any further discussion John anything else I'm I'm comfortable with going forward especially if Miami Beach is comfortable going forward go so Miami Beach hate Miami Beach I'm just going to call you MB for sure there you go all right we got a motion in second uh I'm an i who second is Scott uh hi counc Woodson hi VI hi and counc King hi motion carries unanimously all right next we have our administrative agenda the first one is a resolution of the Town Council of the town of Fort Meers Beach Florida ratifying action of the Town taken December 3rd 2024 under the emergency procurement policy to enter into an agreement ment with conadis Builders and General Contractors Inc to perform emergency repairs to the road curbing sidewalk and drain field resulting from a water main a water main break near 3780 esto Boulevard authorizing payment of invoice number 2985 in the amount of $47,900 director and basically the the title of the resolution says it all um we're just asking for formal approval um since it's over $75,000 of this emergency repair expense so was that our water main or was it a Lee County one and I guess where I'm getting is is because it was an accident is the insurance company covering this cost from the contractor doing the work why why are the taxpayers paying for a a mistake from a contractor or are we going to be reimbursed yeah we're trying to kind of track that down right now um I guess what happened happened is when the locates went in they located I think at and the numbers might be a little off so don't hold me was located at 4 feet when they drilled down it was a foot and a half so we're trying to figure out as a staff to if we want to put this onto U earthview who's doing our our locates you mean but if I mean if they did the locate and it was wrong I would hope that their insurance would cover it but we haven't gotten that far yet but you're going down that path are you're goingon to yeah that's my only concern yeah right we we have to pay this invoice obviously and then we are pursuing like who would be responsible how it would be covered and I don't have that detail yet no you I no I get I'm not more to staff than directly you I just you got to pay the work needed to be done but my hope is that we're going to go even if it's legally we have to go after someone to make sure we get oh yeah funding back okay any questions for Joe or staff John I guess I just have a concern that it happened on December 3rd and that and we're still not sure if we're going to go forward with uh trying to recoup this or that's a couple of months to make a decision right yeah basically what we're looking for is to find out one who did the work so after the accident was happened and we got the what do you mean who did the work who did we weren't sure who did the locates at first okay so once we got not that clarified which took a matter of time especially with the holiday involved sure that's when we've started pursuing so for the last maybe three weeks we've been actively trying to get all the information we can before we go to company that did the service for us or on behalf of this situation and have everything uh together we don't want to go in there Half Baked and and all of a sudden no that wasn't us or how can you prove this we have we have everything that we need to have moving forward so we're trying to do it as pragmatically and as aous as we can udicious nice thank you B counc whaton nothing Scott I had the same question okay then I'll make a motion to approve resolution uh 25- 53 with the condition to give staff the authority to use all means necessary to recoup These funds from whichever contractor made the mistake I'll second that a motion by mayor all seconded by councelor Woodson any further discussion I'm an i counc Woodson hi counc Safford hi Vice May hi and counc King hi motion carries youy next is resolution a resolution of the Town Council the town of Fort Myers Beach Florida approving a Second Amendment to the agreement between the town and Earth viw LLC for storm water maintenance and repairs to add ground penetrating radar services is in and not to exceed an amount of 130,000 authorizing the exe execution of the Second Amendment to the town manager and providing an effective date Joe um this is related in the sense that we um this um ground penetrating radar Services is what Earth reuses to locate utilities and so and it doesn't sound like they did a good somebody did a good job then well so why this is here before you is that we have a contract with earthview but it was not it did not include these Services they we had a line within the agreement that they can provide additional services for a certain rate per hour but there was nothing really specified as far as what exactly they needed um but they were able to provide utility locate services and beginning in June I think it was June um we the town had a need for the services between um there was a an influx of utility locate requests coming in I think this for two different reasons one I think was for the um that the underground cabling that was being installed across the island and the other was by fpnl at the same time from what and I'm just trying to go by what I've been able to piece together the reason for the need for um a service contractor to provide these Services was that we were also short staffed in the utilities department so between an increase in requests and being short staffed they needed to supplement um the services by Outsourcing it Earth you was willing to do it we had that language in the contract but this has been going on now for several months and it's approaching the $75,000 limit as far as um what is under the town managers authority to authorize so in and then also we did not have formal contract um with earthview for these services so this is also um an addition to approving the dollar amount and then projecting what we'll continue to need through March um I think that's what we determine we would need to continue um the same level of services going forward through March to complete all these requests and we also have um additional Staffing hired now who is able to perform these requests so we're anticipating that by June that the need for these Services would be um diminished or eliminated and so this $130,000 figure is basically to carry us from June of last year all the way through um June of this coming year and then this would also approve the the language in the contract um Amendment to the contract to cover these services and Joe most of this money will be offset by the wages not being paid paid to the staff yes yes it should any questions for Joel Scott no Karen Noe Jim no John Frankie um help me with this so no wait a minute let me finish please um we began using them in June of last year we did not use the ground Penny they did not use the ground penetrating radar for the locates correct then or they use a a multitude of different techniques so in this particular case that we referred to previously with the the water main break um I would I would guesstimate that because of where it was on a stero that they would have only because it is giving you the best result for undisturbed surface underneath that concrete um I that's part of our little investigative that we've done on our end here trying to get them to what did you use on that and also the contractor that struck that line that caused that water man break what were you doing were you in the right parameter were you in the right soil height with your Ditch Witch to make that connection so that that goes back to tying in yes they are using ground penetrating radar they're not using ground penetrating radar on all the side streets we originally brought them in to help us with centry link Cent link we're having what about 10 15 20 locates a day and we only had two staff at that time uh we we have a wand service just like you would get the sunshine to come out here and do but that's fine for a residential street where you're just looking for a hardened box or a hardened line or Junction but not where you have a large area so that's where they bring in the ground penetrating radar and again it's just a sled that you pull it's about the size of a little kid's wagon um type unit but it's looking for that differentiation in soil type so getting back to two questions um yes I ask very well likely they did use this technique um on sterile that locate where we had that water main Brak two going forward because of the amount of work that we have with fpnl not only on our in Lighting on the sterile but also in our downtown area where we have a lot of sidewalk space they will be using ground penetrating radar to the what extent I don't know not on every locate not on every spot I think Joe and I had the preliminary discussion based on what we had used and what we saw going forward especially with this project that that deemed sufficient to get us to that point John I'm Ming um go ahead you were the last one so you need a motion or if there's any more discussion is there this contract is already an existence s so we're just saying looking to ratify it there's nothing we can add to this contract at this point as far as language or ination on there yes both yes um that's definitely something that you I think we can look at at any time to amend it to amend the contract ter contract we can discuss it and if they're agreeable we can bring it to you okay I'd like to see that yes sir thank you that takes care of from me thanks down move approval of resolution 25-54 nice okay got a motion by vice mayor aderholt I will second any further discussion Vice mayol hi I'm i councelor k hi counc Woodson hi counc Safford hi motion carries unanimously next is a resolution of the Town Council the town of Fort Meers Beach Florida authorizing the town manager or his design to approve sta number two in the amount of $2,853 with aim engineering and surveying Inc under RFQ 22-25 dad for Arch's Hotel traffic impact statement review phase five and any Associated documents and providing for an effective date yes go ahead Judy so um it's pretty simple we've used aim for other uh Transportation impact study reviews um they were operating we were using them under different stas that have since expired um the total amount actually expended with them them was about 27 a little less than 27,000 to be clear um that money just passes through the town we Bild the applicant for that amount so it's not coming out of our our funds we pay aim and then the applicant pays us that's what I was going to could you just kind of for those that don't know how this work just real quickly go through the process of how these reviews work how it gets paid for because there has been some question about this as to who's paying for it why are we paying for someone else's review so just if you could give a quick example or are quick testimony of how that works so um part of the reason we have uh permitting fees and fees associated with applications is so that the town is not paying for um these development applications so the town is recouping the the costs of doing this we don't have an in-house Transportation reviewer most municipalities wouldn't it's a very specific um uh field unless you have a very large um municipality so what happens is when the applicant submits things we contract then with in this case with aim engineering so the town is is doing the Contracting and they aim works for us so that's that's the important part I think people need to hear is that although it's an applicant or developer that needs this review they're paying for it but we're hiring it's it's someone we're hiring not the applicant correct and they have their own transportation the person who's or or group who's repairing their transportation impact study that they contract with and then they provide that study to us and then we have our own reviewer and that way they can town can rely that this is an independent or or you know U reviewing on the best interest of the Town um and part of that scope of work would be that somebody from the you know the organization could come to the meetings to explain any questions um you know as as needed to an LPA or a town council meeting this is kind of a little off topic but I'm want maybe this is a question for Sarah would something like this the gentleman that came in for that MMP meeting I believe that you brought in that talked about his Services is that something that would fall under his purview in a contract if he was awarded a contract or would it this would be separate from that it would be separate okay just curious if it was all kind of intertwined okay any questions none for Judith I do have a question I guess for Nancy um since it did it has been brought up and and there seemed to be confusion around it should there be something in the resolution about um the reimbursement to the town by the applicant or are we I me we could put it in there we can add a a weas clause um but if it's in your code I don't think it's needed okay and I think if they came if they came before for recomm for approval staff would say they haven't paid us for what they're supposed to pay us for correct and and we have been using aim for this specific project um over the last year and we have Reed payment for the applicant for the other reviews this group is done okay thank you do you want that in there or no I'm good okay I just wanted your expse on oh thanks Jim any questions no Karen no Scott nope thanks Judith all right is there a motion for is it resolution 25- 56 is there a reason we went from 54 to 56 or 55 was earlier in the agenda I believe I will move 25-5 six aim archers Hotel traffic impact statement review phase five big old five got a motion by councelor King I'll second any further discussion councelor King hi I'm I vice mayor I counc Woodson hi councelor Safford I motion carries unanimously next is item D this this is to authorize the town manager to sign a release directing the return of a $500,000 letter of credit to Brad properties FL F Florida Investments LLC pursuant to the terms of a code enforcement settlement agreement dated December 27th 2023 between the town of Fort Meers Beach and prad properties Florida Investments LLC Town manager so as uh the day that this was drafted and Council gave me the authority to make sure that Mr Pat was following all the rules of that order um we have called each other many times over different things whether it be fencing parking sand uh things like that through the whole hurricane season of last year um Carri has been very receptive to all my calls and has uh in a timely fashion addressed all the concerns that we immediately had so particularly dealing with the conditions of that original agreement he has met that okay and Nancy you have any issues or disagree with anything Frankie said no um I have to rely on staff that they've done their reviews um there has been no uh formal uh code Code Enforcement action um so I think the evidence is is there that he satisfied the conditions of the uh settlement agreement okay Terry you're you want to come up and say anything or you don't have to just saw you sitting back there I thought I'd ask if you wanted to properties Florida Investments no I just want to thank Frankie and Nancy for working with us you know this thing has been going out for way too long so we finally got closure to it now um and just looking forward to moving forward and rebuilding for Myers Beach okay well we got you up here can I ask you a question real quick sure because people are obviously asking about the property and Time Square and the fencing and the old Pier side you have any plans to to clean that area up so that the fence can come down and it's a safer area to we got about 75% of the uh concrete removed and we'll be working this week to get the auto balance removed and then we'll get the s in okay thank so next couple weeks we should be able to see that open back up and cleared up yep okay he's looking over Chad shaking his head no no he's just oh I'm happy to hear that okay good thanks for the update Terry Terry since you're up here just wanted to give you an opportunity to people also ask about the Fresh Catch Jun Ando property you want to just give us an update on that as well that's it yeah no that's um so we're in a final PR uh phase of our lawsuit with insurance company um they sent us to uh what's called an appraisal um whereas they come back out to the site and look at the buildings uh we did get the fesh catch building that's standing resolved back this summer and we working on the junk now but uh the fresh Gast shows the wind damage our flood claim has been paid it's our wind damage that we're still fighting for and hopefully if it's the same team that was uh working on the FES catch building then we'll be fine then we can start working on that is it the same insurance carrier for both buildings but they're considered separate buildings it was one policy everything was one but when they uh came to adjust the claim they claim that was two buildings which has been ruled that it's not are they is your insurance company requiring you to not tear that building down um we've kept it up because when the appraisal process they bring their appraiser we bring our appraiser and then they bring a judge or mediator out to the site and for us to get our balance on the fresh CAD it was very very helpful and we're doing the same thing so they can see what was caused by wind because they're claiming that fluck took the whole building so when is your do you have any time frame as to when that so the judge issued the order on January 3rd um and they're working to put together the team right now so it usually take about three to six months so that building is going to say there another six months up to six months and you can't take it down there so I guess what I'm trying to get at is are they telling you you can't take it down or you're choosing not to take it down we're choosing not to take it down because we want to make sure that they have all the evidence they need for the claim okay it's not what I wanted to here yeah I I would I would prefer to see that it comes I mean yes I'm guessing you got a bunch of pictures and they've gotten all the evidence that they need is there any willingness on your part to take that I mean as you know we get a lot of complaints about buildings like that that have been here for two and a half years that either aren't secure which yours is not or they haven't come down and we've been fortunate no one's gotten hurt but there's going to be you know play with the devil enough times you're going to get you're going to get burned yeah so we're waiting if they if they assign the same team that did the fresh gas claim then we'll go ahead and start the demolition process if it's a different team then we'll have to wait and get the advice of our attorneys so just just to be clear uh Terry the the uh the carrier that you have for both Fresh Catch and Juno same carrier yes and they're saying that the building has to remain for three to six months until their adjusters come out to inspect no no our attorneys are seeing your attorneys yeah but but that's based upon the carrier's desire to come out and see it or the your attorney's desire to have that as evidence should that come up in litigation you need the physical plant to to make the defense so what they've done is we're got they've already come with a million pounds and looked at the pilling the court has ordered us to go through an appraisal process and these are three brand new people that will be coming up now if it's the same team if we're able to use the same team that we did initially then we'll be able to take it down because they've already seen the evidence but if it's a brand new team then we'll have to work with them and try to get as much evidence on our end so we can get so your carrier is hiring a an appraiser and then you're hiring an appraiser and then there's going to be a settlement negotiations and then there'll be a mediator appraiser with them okay thank you all right well then I'll just formally ask you if you could be a good neighbor get rid of that building as soon as possible um you know as you've probably seen now that we're getting in season people are parking kind of wherever they want to park and they're walking through there and they're it's I don't want to see anyone get hurt for your benefit and for ours so or at least fence it or something make it so people can't get in there I mean I've seen people set up ladders and walk up in there so are I don't know you know I don't know what they think they're going to find but someone's going to get hurt if it's not protected but at least fence it off if you would and and uh I'm sure staff will work with you to get that y that permit as fast as possible and then if you can get it down as fast as you can that would help clean up that area and that' be one less thing that we have to worry about and I'm sure you're tired of hearing about it too yeah I all right thanks ter a all right that is is there a motion to approve the release of the funds of the letter of credit uh still moved got a motion by councelor Woodson I'll go ahead and second uh councelor Woodson can we have some discussion oh yeah sorry discussion just um thanks I want to clarify some misinformation that's been out there for a long time this Council has taken a beating for this settlement because allegedly there were over $2 million fines out there um Nancy wasn't part of this it was it was Becky but Becky knew that that was indefensible so there was no way to move forward with that and so I just wanted to clarify that misinformation on some that used to be in the media that uh like to beat us up over nothing and John if I can add to that the uh the town did receive a $250,000 fine from Mr purad as part of the settlement thank you okay any further discussion uh counc Woodson I I'm an i vice mayor I ccor King I con Safford I motion carries unanimously we'll do this uh walk on now if everybody's okay with it the this is uh a request from the Fort Myers Beach women Club is requesting an approval of a special event permit for a St Patrick's Day Parade contingent on approval from FNB fire and lcso including a request for a sterile Boulevard to be shut down from 7:30 a.m. until 11:30 a.m. during the parade and to wave the noise and open container ordinances ladies hello my name is Barb mazeski I'm a board member at large Fort Meers Beach woman club and I raised my hand to become a co-chair of the St Patrick's Day Parade my other co-chair is not here the boring one she um she's had a death in the family so she's not here today but I have um the president of the Woman's Club with me that's going to help me with this I feel like I'm going to the principal's office here um anyway um just wait oh just please um anyway we just want to resurrect the St Patrick's Day parade and I know we're late um I think we were like three days late in in the 45 day minimum but we just all got together in January and said let's go for it we want to get this um Island back and we want the people to come and enjoy this day because it is a wonderful day even though I'm Dutch not Irish I'm still going to have a that day um we want to um have um the um Road blocked off by LC or lsco and um from Santini Plaza and we do have a letter of um from the owner that says he will let us use Santini Plaza for staging um and we will we were hoping to have the roadblocked off up to the church of Ascension as it has been in years past we are going to be hosting a post party at our vacant property at 175 Sterling after the parade we are asking for the road to be closed I believe from 10: to 11:30 they a little maybe a little longer than that um there the experts you are correct do you have anything to add Don sure Don Thomas president of the fort Meers Beach Women's Club um we presented it to uh town uh to town well to Tom yzo and then with lcso I'm not sure of the time if they want to shut down the road we would just go with what they recommend we do have the lineup from 8: to 9: we have Parade starting at 10: we feel because it is so late in the game we won't have the massive amount of uh Parade floats or bands like we've had for the shrimp fest so we do feel that it would take about an hour which is about what it was in the past at its height it ends at church of Ascension people can then reroute their uh Floats or their parade or their um bands back to Santini to pick up their cars those who choose we are routing them back then up the street to our um property which is about six blocks further and we have secured additional parking on our property and the property adjacent for us for any of those people with floats and we have secured three food trucks three food trucks and we're hoping to bring in the residents and the uh visitors down to the south end so not everybody's trekking right back up north and we can keep a lot of the activity down on the south end and that would go from um 11: to 3 and then we would shut it down we have done the 500t letter already we got a little ahead of the sou before we came to get fermenting and everything but um we've we've turned everything in so the next step is getting your approval for open container and for the road closure and then it goes to lcso and to the fire department Don in here it says you're looking to close it till to Sterling Avenue from 7205 to 175 we weren't sure how far they have to go in the past we we threw it out to lcso and said you know look at we have never seen an old permit since we never have done this event um but we do know this people are kind of coming up with their floats people behind them are going to be coming up slower okay just wanted to clarify that but then it also says 7:30 7:30 a.m. to 11:30 we didn't put that in there so that's I think that's what they recommended to us when we talked to lcso um we just know we've got set up at 800 a.m. I don't know what time they have to shut it down we're just waiting to hear what they said I know in the past it was not shut down that early and only because I drove it so so I'm not sure what they're going to do we were going to take what they recommended if we know the party if it's being um stage from 8 to 9: well probably 8 to 10 really and then kick off at 10: done at 11 I think in the past they've only closed it down from like just before that's what I thought too yeah I know that even even dealing with you know the bridge closure for other events that we've had lcso likes to set that early time just to let people know in case there you know push it up for weather or something like that so they like to give a bigger a bigger Gap there um but we can whatever they suggest and this is all um sorry to interject that's F but uh yeah we had a great meeting um they were very well prepared on this um right away and it's all contingent on the Fire review and lcso so your per your approval would be uh contingent on that as well so and I can't remember there's no race in this one right that's just the shrimp fest that has the race very few floats very few floats a lot of Walkers and golf carts a pretty casual parade and and the San is a nice barking L it allows you to pretty much stage your order right in the lot itself but it works out pretty well yeah yes and they allowed us the backside as well oh excellent we have all the quite a bit excellent yes and we've also um Extended uh an invite hoping that we get this permit to um the uh Fine Arts and their four four bands that are interested in performing and coming and one is uh dunar one is Gateway One is Fort Myers High School and the other one is Cape Coral high school wow that's awesome you can get all four of them yes that would be great yes Scott any questions you still you don't want to have a leprechaun Dash a leprechaun Dash next year next year is that what they do in Miami Beach no that's for Lauderdale I actually was in it one time long time ago I might have been the first leprechaun rumor has it we did try to get in touch with um pardon me for interrupting um we did try to get two Irish bands but the Irish band that has always performed and I don't know if you know Danny Parker and that but um the band that he performs with they are going to be in Ireland performing so they won't be here and we as took Ireland over us yes can you believe that can't believe that and then there was another band too I drum and thistle maybe band um but they are already taken up by Naval so we didn't luck out but hopefully the bands that we do get will'll play some Irish music and of course the floats and the Walkers will have the music about the uh the lcso the bag pipes you know that that they always play at events the H guard the honor guard yeah they would be cool to have down there too I mean they whether not they want to walk in a kilt it looks like it's a very heavy outfit to be wearing but maybe reach out to them too okay thank you for that um there I mean it's pretty close to Irish music Scottish Scottish Ireland Scotland was close we're all from that same area all righte all right any further discussion n see do I have to abstain my wife is on the board of the Women's Club do I need did she get any type of money for none get no money Nancy she's not I think I think your question should be how much is it going to cost me I think she's fine um there's no special benefit aside from money that she's getting so it's an non-benefit work a lot okay I just have a a question for clarification why is the Shrimp Festival part of this package she's busy there's a two-page in here about the shrimp got mixed up oh we take Shrimp Festival next I'm take it over the world I just so we can ignore that then the Shrimp Festival we are not involved with the Shrimp Festival at all taking per over that oh oh I've got a question how does one sign up just show up that's good I have a registration form that we are going to um put out and um it's a two-page form it tells you um what to do where to go where to be at a certain time um it suggests what kind of um floats to have or um golf carts or walking but make sure that you are something Irish prone we will have um an application on our website we will push it through our Facebook page uh we're pushing it through bechu radio we're waiting until we get approval on this we'll put it through our social media Facebook page as well and we've also been pushing it out to as many other the nonprofits that we can get a hold of so again last a little bit last minute but um we've got that all ready to go as soon as you guys get the green light we'll hit put it all online it it this may be premature but I just wanted you to know that discussions and negotiations are ongoing with graceand right now to see if Elvis would be available to come thank you very you knew him you bring him but it is little bit premature so don't don't raise it to my expectations you you may not want to let uh Priscilla Drive the the uh the uhoh just I mean it's just a suggestion for Elvis last time he came by he was he was he was running hard oh yeah he was left in the dirt sweat Elvis Elvis has an amazing rendition of Danny Boy and I'll take you home again Kathleen both beautiful IR songs can't wait come on as long as it's not walty Matilda all right thanks ladies one more one more thing one more thing um as long as you're a captive audience here and I know that you guys are going to say yes about this mat so um on behalf on behalf of the Women's Club and the St Patrick's uh Day committee um we would like to ask Dan to be our Grand Marshal second does he have help you're going to need a new outfit you have a kilt a green jacket nobody wants to see that we have a second uh councelor Stafford your vote oh I'm G say I councelor uh King mainly yes but I like it too oh that's beautiful I I also v i I think we have unanimous support for that effort all right thank you thank you I'd be happy to thank you very much thank you Council and be careful what you wish for did they vote on that can you vote on the ACT is there a motion to approve the special the event special event permit for the St Patrick's Day Parade so moved I'll second motion by coun or vice mayor adhal second ccor Woodson any further discussion made the motion okay there you go Hi C Safford hi coun King hi and I'm and I as well I was just scaring myself at the thought of a kill all right next is final public comment thanks guys looking forward to it U is there anybody like to speak at final public comment Terry come on up sorry pad uh it's more of a question on a comment um a couple of the owners are working on getting plans in for Time Square and back in 2021 2022 we're supposed to start working on the utilities in Time Square but since then I know the funding has been used and up and things have gone away just kind of want to get an update to where we're at that we doing the utilities and Time Square we'll have them cover that under we'll ask them to under the town manager items okay thanks is there anyone else like to speak a public comment seeing none we'll close public comment Frankie you have any uh updates I do uh first and foremost um supposed to let everyone know that our MMP that's coming up is primarily going to be driven by the Strategic plan discussion you're talking it's hard to hear here we go so basically our M&P that's going to be coming up here is going to be driven primarily by the M um strategic plan discussion moving forward so that should uh can I comment on that for a second Frank sure I had uh had a chance to review the agenda for the uh for the program on Thursday uh facilitated by some professional facilitators and express some concern uh that the agenda was I'm trying to be kind here a bit on the fuzzy side and I've talked with the town manager and with Dr kler and they've they're reaching out to the facilitators to make it much more uh uh targeted and directed and and results oriented as a I I don't think they fully appreciate the fact that we've all been through this for two and a half years and we don't need to do all the corporate warm and fuzzy stuff so so hopefully that'll that'll be addressed and I I appreciate you guys uh taking my input and I I would encourage my colleagues to look at that agenda as well and and and share their thoughts as well yeah I agree with you pair it down a little bit we'll make sure that that gets conveyed and taken care of thank you um then also to address Mr Pat's question just a second so we're looking at starting Thursday at 10: then yes sir yes thank you not n: not 9 10 a.m. 10 to two working glad you asked that John 10 to two 10 to two and then to address the question uh we're currently having utility work done in Time Square um and that will help at least get us an understanding of where we need to be and we can convey that to the people that are trying to rebuild in that area as well so currently we're looking at U updating of electrical throughout that whole Corridor with um yeah yeah with the electrical contractor that we currently are using for the Bayside and old the sterile project down the street uh Kirkwood Electric um once we get a base study as far as we understand what's there uh we can proceed back to you as far as what we need to do uh to really get it back up and running part of we've discussed as a a team is we don't know what infrastructure is going to go there right now so it's hard to really go forward with something if we're going to have to rip it up you know when if they redo it so it's it's kind of a question mark but as far as the electrical goes we're going to we're going to do that as part of the the osc project as well well memory serves me way back before the hurricane when we were discussing it there was a million-dollar grant that was available that we had to use it by a certain time obviously the storm came and and and knocked us off that access or that tilt but we had I think it was a million dollar match that we had right that we had to use by a certain date but what I believe there were some plans that were already put in place as to what was going to be done based on what was there before the storm which included not only electric but it was drainage sewer water all that stuff I got to believe there's some drawings out there somewhere because we had gotten I want to say we had gotten a quote for it and Jason might know because I believe Jason was with Public Works back then that would be a good starting point because if I remember correctly there was talk about having the down spots from the buildings drain into the storm water so it wasn't going actually onto the so there there was a lot of thought and effort put into it so I would I would encourage you to go find that documentation and use that as a springboard because our RightWay area hasn't changed um and for me I don't what they're going to build there should work into what our plan is not the other way around that is correct so yeah and plus we've been under I mean it's been we've had a lot of wash out through that area um we're just now getting to repl replacing the pavers um down at Time Square to so a lot of it did get washed out and we even had benches that were sinking and that's why we're not allowing too many vehicles on there is because we don't know what's going on underneath it so we're going to have to figure that all out as we go then why are we replacing papers tripping hazards I mean oh we're not taking out and putting new ones in I mean we're we're using the old ones and putting them back in oh got it okay but there's I mean obviously all have been down there there's huge spots that got washed out um from the last because now the biggest issue we had back then was you know do we rip the Band-Aid off and just do that whole upgrade so it only affects one season or two and we had conversations with all the owners of Time Square and I believe the decision was just rip the Band-Aid off and get it done and so I think again I know we've talked about this at MMP meetings it's important I think that we get that done sooner than later and we're talking about people even today cleaning up their properties and we haven't done a thing to do our own so it's it's a lead by example I know you're shaking your head but well I mean we have had hurricanes that we've been to scoop sand out over and over again I get it but uh doesn't sound to me like we haven't had a we have a plan in place to do anything there at the moment no sir okay why would I would like to see something if I'm assuming my council members if they want to speak up or not on whether or not we'd like to see something happen there sooner than later with a plan it's a seems like a good M&P yeah conversation I think that'd be great what else Cy that's it sir as far as I know I have a question yes ma'am um so Sunday and I'm not sure if it was I'm talking traffic Sunday evening I'm not sure if it was because we didn't have an attendant a crescent and fifth or I know when I went through there after sitting in traffic for an hour and 10 minutes to get home there was a lot of Halo going on at matanzas there was a ambulance and fire trucks and everything so I'm not sure what happened there either um but I'm just thinking we are in we're only going to get busier um I think we need to have every day an attendant at Crescent and fifth whether it's lcso whether it's our people or whatever it is because it I mean it was a dead standstill on Sunday night at 6:45 for an hour and 10 minutes and that's how it crept along I mean we you didn't move for 15 minutes at a time and I think if I can jump in back on that I think what I've noticed is we've seen FHP out there we've seen two deputies were down there yesterday from lcso but it seems that they're directing them to the wrong intersection they're they're directing traffic at the light when that's already being directed and I've notice that when they're at Crescent and fifth it never stops people are moving and the people are actually because cars are continually moving pedestrians are either taking the walk over or they're waiting for the light to actually stop where they can cross they're not just darting out right but they need to be down at Crescent and F right but I but my point is when they're there and they're controlling that intersection it almost is like it's slowing even more traffic down because there's two people waiting to cross the street and they're stopping traffic in three directions to allow two people to walk across the street as AOS to letting the signal do what the signal is supposed to do I see more benefici and I'm on on that road more times than I care to admit every single day a thousand times a day and it exaggerating obviously but but a lot and to see the difference when we have someone at Fifth and Crescent moving traffic whether it's our Rangers or whether it's Florida Highway Patrol or or whatever it is the traffic moves much much faster so I don't know and both your points um not only are we having trying to cover as much of that as we can I know that the town manager has reached out to lcso and has those conversations ongoing as far as getting help here especially on the weekend seems to be uh a bad time to coverage for coverage right now because of Staffing situations that we currently have not that it should ever be an excuse but uh we will definitely do our well it seems like it seems like the fott is applying some people down here but it doesn't seem that there's Direction to where they should be going right and and I know Tom has had initial conversations with them as well uh part of that the whole I actually saw one of our Rangers go to the FHP and say I can't remember what her name was but you could clearly see she was saying you're at the wrong spot you need to be down here and he moved down to Fifth and theot that that was created from our discussions from a meeting that we had with with the construction company um they did suppli us with f or FHP people um we really needed them on the curve going out of town on Fifth onto esto um they have them all over the place from sitting right behind the barricades uh Tom if you'd like to talk about briefly couple of the conversations that you've had we we don't have the authority to give direction to uh FHP we can suggest highly that they're very inactive sitting underneath an operating traffic light um and that they would be better served in other locations um a lot of times they're there for lights to make it cognizant to slow down they're not there to direct traffic um so I I know that Thom has had a couple of conversations he could probably add a little more clarity to it Tom good afternoon everyone how are you so I have had many discussions with uh the guys who are running the job there uh from fot and we came to the conclusion that they were going to have the FHP Trooper sitting at the end of fifth at the end of the bridge because that that keeps people from doing the illegal uturn that's really what the the plus is there having the overhead lights activated is definitely a big bonus for us they tend to stay in their vehicle more than I would like but I can't control that with them so we do put a ranger there whenever I have Staffing for it I get a ranger on the post I have a ranger on post right now because it was backed up all the way down to Connecticut so I put a ranger on post at one o00 um have them up there to start keep moving people through at Fifth fth and Crescent do we have the resources or do we I know we we had talked in that meeting about overtime and do we have the resources and the willingness of our staff to we have the uh the resources are coming hopefully we're interviewing people to hire more people so um I'm actually bringing some of my code people are coming in to help as well so they're going to be doing some of that space as well today uh Town manager reached out to lcso again and has requested that we put the the officers at Crescent and fifth yeah so that was the discussion this morning via email I explained to lcso the importance of controlling that intersection as opposed to the lighted intersection so I'm I'm I'm assuming they're hearing what we're saying we're hopefully moving forward at a better Pace to keep that intersection covered all the way until 9 o'clock at night that would be great we realize that it's it's dark down there with the pedestrian traffic so we're going to put another light Tower down there as well where at Fifth and Crescent okay we just have to be conscious that it doesn't uh create a hazard with too much light in in uh the driver's or thees speaking of Hazard that sand is still on that sidewalk right there I did this weekend I saw one guy out there he was shoveling but in a different area but that right at the corner of that intersection on the east side it's you know still six inches of sand on that sidewalk that has never been cleaned up so just if we can get someone to scoop that up that would help well then you guys would yeah that would definitely help you can't miss it it's it's there well that'd be great I think you know our guys do a great job you know whenever they're out there the traffic you could it's a noticeable difference when someone's there moving that left hand or moving that rightand turn lane it's it's about controlling the pedestrian traffic coming from downtown controlling the traffic coming out of downtown letting them hold up for a little bit pushing them back up Third Street a little bit and then we do flow that as well but we just got to keep that Northbound traffic off Island traffic moving we've spoken with the head of security from Margaritaville he understands that they need to be conscious of having people backing into the road there or having stuff sto there was discussion the other day about us creating a permanent Uber space somewhere in Third Street in that area so we can stop having the Uber drivers stop at the intersection of Fifth and fifth in the stero I mean I'm sorry Crescent in the stero and also stopping right by Margaritaville there by the lighthouse as well so we're hoping to kind of move that out of there as well can we up with like a solidified plan I mean this is great that you guys are going down there filling in but have a plan it seems like whenever there's not anybody there that's when the biggest complaints happen is I mean we we're we've got 45 days 60 days of season left we can just have a plan every day you know whatever determine whatever our hours are and then just fill in from there we do have a plan in place that's from 3:00 in the afternoon till 6 o' every night we have somebody as long as I have Staffing I have somebody posted there okay that's the plan I think what you're getting at Scott and I would agree with you I don't want to speak for you but I think what you're getting at is what you know I would rather see you pull staff off of driving down the beach that time and direct them there this is you know obviously I'm not telling you what to do but my recommendation would be to allocate I mean that is a that is a choke point and it is by far the biggest issue that we hear about every single year we didn't we didn't cause this mess but we can we can certainly help alleviate it I I would love to see to your point a plan of we have a dedicated staff member this is your post for the day you know and just rotate them out or something say for the day I would think you know with with season coming up I'd say you know two to six the goal is to make that happen every day it's just with Staffing and that's why we reach back out to lcso and said we really need to have somebody in this space uh the town manager was in contact with their their uh extra Duty unit this morning with me and we we talked to them already so they're putting they're putting together part of that plan yeah I can't I can't speak for the other council members but you know whatever it costs whether it's overtime or LC lcso I mean that that's money well spent because you've got you get people on the island and then you know they're they're here having a good time and they're not telling their friends hey don't go down there you know go down there yeah it's a little bit of traffic just like it used to be but we we get off pretty quick and and we are using staff WID over time right now to cover some of that have we looked at potentially using a staffing firm that can bring in a you know there's security companies out there can we hire a a security compan what alleviates your staff if we're going to pay staff overtime what's the difference if we're paying you know a a staffing firm to have a security guard stand out there in direct traffic you would have to have somebody who's certified for flagging they have to be certified by F dot so be something we can look into by all means yeah I got to believe the Staffing company's got resources I can uh telisa and I TSA actually reached out to a couple of them we met with one on site and it's basically like $65 an hour well that's what lcso charges I I think that's a great investment especially during season I mean even though we didn't create the mess and I don't think we should be the ones paying for it and maybe we can take this cost and submit it to F Dot and say you know you're this is we're solving the solution we're we're providing solution but here's the cost you know we got to take the bull by the horn so to speak and you know whether we're paying lcso or we're paying a staffing as long as they can do the job at least we can control the STA we can't control whether or not we've learned in the past and this is not a knock on the lcso but it is a sign up for a duty off-duty person to to take that and they can't always fill that so we may not have coverage because nobody wants to work that day or what for whatever reason even though they try very hard whereas with a staffing person we control that person because they work for us well I think you could also have a better training opportunity with that Staffing person as well since they would be working for you yeah might be a conduit the companies that t and I met with they're already certified in doing this type of work so it it wouldn't be a big transition to get their people onto our site you you have my you got my support am I consented to make that happen John you okay with it I mean it's $65 sounds like a lot but and it is but look at the revenue that we're preventing people Mid Island from even considering going downtown I mean we're talking hundreds of thousands of dollars that could go that could stay on the island plus it's a bad experience yeah again I think we can make an argument to submit these costs to the contractor say this is a you know until they get that through traffic opened this is going to be what it's going to be yeah our myself and my staff can train them to what we want them to do too so and can can this funding this Joe question I guess could this funding come from parking revenue or can it come from gas tax or I mean there there already is a budget um for gas tax that does pay for the existing Sheriff detail that we already are using so I don't know that there's anything left for additional H but you know that is a source um and what was the other option I didn't know if like parking Revenue could be used for that or the parking Revenue is already that's allocated it's already part of the entire general fund budget um but you know we do we have all kinds of savings from vacancies that you know so overall budget I think we have money to okay pay for it perfect we can definitely reach out we just met with them just a few weeks ago so we can get all that information typ away she's already on it there you go perfect six yeah more than two to six I'd say two to six at least it' be mine'll get it's you know there is a drop off between six and seven I mean maybe not a lot maybe you do take it till seven two to seven just to make sure that we're covering that last hour it's worth it as the days are getting longer too they're going to stay longer on the beach you could just do an hour after sunset yeah I think well I think seven would take us through through Easter we can always adjust it I'm sure if we need to adjust it well daylight savings changes in March they probably have to take dat then it sounds like it's a staffing they I got to believe they' be able to move the yeah I mean if we got to pay him for eight hours a day to stand there we got to pay gentleman we met with ha a company they do this all over Southwest Florida here so for different communities different types of events different types of things so especially if we can interact with them because some a couple of years ago we just had you know four people standing underneath the light not doing anything but if you get get them out there move move move let's go that helps tremendously absolutely perfect okay what else you got a question okay uh Town attorney items no items okay council member items Scott I've gotten several emails about the post office generator coming on at 5:30 a.m. every morning during the week they're very unhappy people down there and um apparently they're having some electrical issues but they're for whatever reason turning on their generator super duper early so my uh my suggestion on that is uh that the post office in particular is extremely challenging uh and they have their own even within the federal government they have their own set of rules and regulations we we've had a very successful relationship with Senator Scott's off with Aron if you just have them reach out to Aon she has a leas on person with with the post office that can reach our post office immediately and give them Direction so may I forward them your email address so you can facilitate that please you can give them to me or just give them I can send you eron's address she's a good person to have a g she's been great with Senator co uh not coats but Senator uh Scott's office yeah yeah for once that was a flash for you yeah for for for once that area it's it's not that one guy that's it that's it all right vice mayor uh nothing additional thank you John hopefully a couple quick things uh I got asked today uh Newton beach access is closed how long will that be so we found a a drain pipe that was yeah storm water drain pipe that was missing about 10 ft of pipe it was just broken off underneath from even from Ian so we're getting Andrew site work to pull that out um because of the new drainage that we're going to put in there we don't need that storm water uh catch base in there it just went from one one drain to the other so it didn't really go anywhere it was odd um which we found on the island a few times yeah sounds like down by New Town Hall yeah so we didn't have anything going to the outfalls I don't it was a cost thing back in the day I guess but um so once we get that pulled out the sewer is ready to be hooked up we have kir going to be doing the electrical so as soon as we can get that drain pipe out and scheduled um we'll be putting that restroom trailer in and putting at least 57 stone or some Crush shell down um wherever Chad recommends um Chad uh and then it'll be open the restroom be open the access is actually I mean if you're walking there the access is open but the parking isn't there yet okay guest them out or I would hope within by March 1st okay what's the next closest beach access do you know off the top your just north of it by the tiki the old Tiki places just B all right thank you um this one probably may be more of a Nancy thing um Sunshine Law coverage for committees are we doing that again I know uh I will tell you the current new uh committee chair for the Anchorage advisory committee swear she has never been covered under uh Sunshine Law coverage since being a member of AAC so I'm G to take word yeah we need to get those scheduled I know I've kind of tried to work with Felisa um on getting some sunshine training for our employees as well um so we'll just try to elevate that on the list of to-dos okay yeah just being part of the you know two of the boards I'd recommend that too and scheduling those sooner than later can those be done through the same links that we get for Florida leue of cities you could sign up for the online seminars that they do for those a couple times a year you can except for the fact that those I think are geared more towards elected officials um and that's working with TSA the presentation we do for employees will be just a little bit different and then our committee is a little bit different and we've had some questions about that on a couple of ours that they haven't been trained yet too okay that's it for me thank you okay just a couple quick things update on the new town hall obviously the building's down next door are we going to see any plans for what that parking lot's going to look like or the public going to see any plans or yeah so currently we've gotten all our our environmental review into um you we reached out to Andrew S workk to help us with that as long as they're in the area we'd like to approve a landscape Plan before you proceed Frankie I'll make sure that the light up on that as well no but yes we will have a plan available um I don't know if we're going to be able to put it onto our website or how that will look U but yes we're tying in both properties the one drainage plan and moving that water out of there and are we looking at doing just crushed rock parking except for the Ada parking spots or is it going to be paved I think we're looking at a couple of different things I know that Andy has expressed and and I concur with him uh the idea of having uh grass block areas um where you get really good drainage um there's a couple of different scenarios that we could use in that parking lot to make it one more user friendly for the environment uh for the storm water runoff um things like that to be good stewards of our property as best we can without being an exorbitant price so there's a couple of different options and we'll have those all available to you and then how's the I know they doing the framing downstairs yes uh I was there with Andy last week I know he's he's pretty much there every single day um they've made tremendous progress and they continue to advance uh more and more each day are we still on schedule for the the elevator to get installed there I believe they're coming in um towards the middle of this month of February here and they assured that they were going to be done by beginning of March okay and then the other thing I have the um Jan from the library board reached out and was asking about the plaque that's on the over there from from the hurricane um she asked if we would be opposed to taking that they would like to hang it um behind where Mitch pñ is sat in the library I told her I didn't have any issue with it but I wanted to bring it up in front of council to make sure they didn't have an issue with it obviously Ed and Kim Ryan donated it so as long as they're okay with it I'm okay with that if my fellow counselors are it seems to make sense to me that's good spot for it I know there was talk about putting it in the new town hall but um it seems like a good spot a good home definely follow your council's direction you okay with that Jim sure yeah John I guess I was maybe asleep because I didn't pay attention I was doing something else oh so I don't even know what you're asking to the pla the plaque yeah I understand that you're talking about the library yeah they would like to hang it behind where Mitch p is sat and because he volunteered at the library and they'd like to hang that so as you walk in you'll see that um sure I mean yeah I don't I know there was really no plan as to where we were going to put it in in the new town hall but it seems like a good fit and a good home so I think they said March 16th is they're planning on opening I think that 16th I think it was so we'll hear about it but if everybody's okay with it then I'll just move forward make I'm sure Ed and Kim will be fine but I'll reach out to them as long as nobody else has an is can I jump in real quick while you're mention the library then go back Library the uh I meant to give an update on the beach school I uh we had an ad hoc meeting on January 22nd uh in the evening and uh the the the Lee County School District had a team of 15 to 20 people on the call and our new superintendent was there which was excellent and she was a great addition to the call um a bit disappointing in the sense that the uh they're still in the process of assessing the school uh after Hurricane Milton believe it or not and they've in that process they've discovered some significant uh uh uh uh challenges cracks in the cement termites uh some some scouring underneath the building and uh after a lot of probing from uh very good parents on the at hoc committee uh they basically acknowledge that they will not be able to open the beach School uh before the end of this particular semester this school year which was a great disappointment uh then we moved on to Alternative uh options for the beach School uh there were three options discussed we're not sure if any of these will bear fruit but they're all being studied uh the town hall trailers here as we move to the new uh Town Hall uh the temporary modular trailers that the school district would potentially put in around the beach school and then lastly and I think potentially one that could bear the most fruit is the new library or not our library it's in essence a new library uh and and so they're meeting with their team uh John C is going to meet with them at the library to see what steps are necess Neary to make the school I'm sorry the library compatible with the state regs which are very strict uh and see if that's a solution and uh but but uh nothing definitive at this point the school uh uh uh officials are are making an effort I think everyone's disappointed that there that that things didn't move quicker on the beach School in terms of uh refurbishment but nonetheless that's where we're at and uh so all three of those options are being explored again the library with the the greatest potential for benefit but the beach School itself will will not be open uh for the end of this school year which is unfortunate and uh but everyone's proceeding accordingly okay the I had just quickly um there's a DOA thing tomorrow is there an agenda out on that or there is not um the items that were to be presented have been rescheduled for March okay thank you so there is no DOA tomorrow no okay all right move to adjourn motion to adjourn by councelor King all those in favor signify by saying I I oppos hearing none we are adjourned at 232