WEBVTT

METADATA
Video-Count: 1
Video-1: youtube.com/watch?v=lKcEV-sSzGs

NOTE
MEETING SECTIONS:

Part 1 (Video ID: lKcEV-sSzGs):
- 00:00:39: Call to Order, Pledge, Introduction of Committees
- 00:04:27: Approval of Meeting Minutes: March & April
- 00:07:56: Public Comment: Introduction of AAC Applicant
- 00:08:27: Discussion of Ferry & Water Taxi Services Begins
- 00:12:49: Initial Questions on Guard Rails for Taxi/Ferry
- 00:15:34: Private vs. Town Operated Ferry/Taxi Discussion
- 00:18:17: Clarification of Taxi Passenger Limits and Definitions
- 00:25:20: Debate on Vessel Size Restrictions & Moring Field
- 00:31:21: Market Demand and Potential Regulatory Scope
- 00:33:46: Key Recommendation Areas: Permits, Fees, Operations
- 00:37:15: Refining Recommendation Points: Insurance, Noise, Parking
- 00:39:15: Recommendations: Limiting Ferry Licenses & Taxi Registration
- 00:41:11: Environmental Enforcement and License Racing Fears
- 00:42:16: Confirming Existing Legality & Enforceability of Taxi Ops
- 00:43:02: Defining Committee Role as Pertaining to Landings/Size
- 00:44:23: Answering Questions Around Existing Permitting Processes
- 00:46:18: Enforcing Size of Vessel in Moring Field/Anchorage
- 00:47:07: Online Certification and the Town's Liability
- 00:50:04: Proposing a Town Taxi Service Website/Listing
- 00:51:28: Referencing Town Licensing & Guidelines for Watercraft
- 00:53:38: Discussing Arches Ferry Terminal and Parking Needs
- 00:55:04: Comparing Ferry/Taxi Regulations in Other Florida Towns
- 00:58:02: Summarizing Concerns and Town Council's Scope
- 00:59:21: Speed as Top Concern: Environmental & Safety Impact
- 01:00:59: Emphasizing Enforcement of Current Regulations is Key
- 01:03:19: Discussion of Local Manatee Deaths and Enforcement Urgency
- 01:05:00: Complaint Driven Enforcement, Summing Recommendations
- 01:06:05: Naples' Water Taxi & Available Dock Agreements
- 01:09:04: Transitioning to Algae Accumulation Discussion
- 01:12:08: Presenting Town Algo Policy & Beach Management Options
- 01:15:10: Requesting Feedback About the Enforcement of Algae Removal
- 01:17:17: Recognizing Current Standards of Algae Thresholds
- 01:18:06: Details on the FDOH Permit & Algae's Movement
- 01:19:10: Algae: Healthy for Ecosystem & Policy Question is Enforcement
- 01:20:34: Determining the Policy Changes Needed, if any
- 01:22:09: Reading Current Beach Raking/Rack Line Policy from Ordinance
- 01:23:09: Is excessive raking occurring? Clarifying Algae Thresholds
- 01:25:35: Concerns: the 8000 Block's settling pool of Algae
- 01:26:57: 8000 Block Discussion, Smell Dissipating from Canal
- 01:28:40: Request Copy of Town Manager Field Permit and Best Practices
- 01:30:06: Defining Different Types of Algal Blooms
- 01:32:16: Human Want for Cleanliness Versus Nature Needs
- 01:33:51: Clarifying Island's Enclosed area, Beach Renourishment
- 01:34:10: Baby Sea Turtle Protection, Clear Water Environment
- 01:36:39: Want Uniformity and Treatment of Algae on Beach
- 01:37:58: Monitoring Beach & Dispersing Algae, CWA Cleanup Request
- 01:39:52: Ask State Officials to Consider Seasonal Algae Cleanup
- 01:41:19: Show Photos to Make a Recommendation on the Process
- 01:45:30: Authority & Policy Discussion on Algae
- 01:47:07: Environmental director has the Discretion to Address issues
- 01:48:47: Recommend Adding Discretion to Environmental Director
- 01:49:59: Beginning Member Item Section
- 01:50:01: Sam Lurri Discussion of Fireworks Explosion in 1990
- 01:53:06: Fireworks: Environmentally Friendly Show Needed
- 01:54:15: Cost & Feasibility of Drones for New Shows
- 01:55:30: An alternate show that may not include Fireworks needed
- 01:57:25: Put This Topic on the Next MURF agenda
- 01:58:19: Jennifer Rusk Report on Construction Sites
- 02:00:11: Discussion of Garbage in Water and What to do
- 02:00:44: Report on Root system, Seagrape and Saltwater
- 02:01:48: Report on Marine Mammal Rescue Team Enforcement Needed
- 02:03:39: Remind All MURF Committee to vote to Advise Town Council
- 02:05:13: Website and a New App Need to Download Waterway Speed Map
- 02:06:39: Distribution for waterways can increase education
- 02:07:59: Chad Update on Local Projects Coming to the Area
- 02:09:39: Curtis Update on the Moring Field Office Project
- 02:11:56: Public Comment with Mr. Craig Stevenson Discussion
- 02:17:55: Discuss Slow Vessel with Mr. Craig Stevenson
- 02:18:28: It's Clear Now! We Need To Increase Enforcement
- 02:19:36: Clarification on Different Definitions of Slow Speed Vessel
- 02:21:33: MURF Award table to Next Meeting
- 02:21:50: Setting Next Meeting Times & Adjournment


Part: 1

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Okay, it is uh 10 o'clock and Wednesday, May 13th. Um, I'm calling this uh joint meeting between the Anchorage Advisory Committee and the MURF Advisory Committee to order. And at this point in time, I'd like to

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ask everyone to pl rise and please give the pledge of allegiance. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and

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justice for all. >> Thank you. Please be seated. >> So, welcome everybody. This is a a little bit of a change in venue. To start everything off, we're going to be sharing chair

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responsibilities. So, initially, I would like the MURF members to please read for the record. They're here so we can establish a quorum. Starting with Ed >> here. >> State your name, please. >> Ed.

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>> Turn your mic on. >> Ed Rude here. >> Jennifer Rusk, present. >> Todd Zachelli, here. Sharon Hickstrom present. >> Robert Howell present >> and Dave Nusbomb present. >> All right, let's do the same thing for

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the Anchorage Advisory Committee. Starting with >> uh Thomas Hedrickk >> here. >> Sam Lurie here. >> Ted Lawwell here. >> John Les Nash present. >> Chris RLE King here. >> Thank you everyone. Now, we do have one

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member of the MURF committee that is here um virtually. >> Okay. So, with the Murf >> two in the waiting room, >> two in the waiting room. >> Well, our

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sign in, please. >> We have to do you missing someone? >> Nope. This is all we've got. We're too short. So >> you are too short. >> Okay. So >> one member, but they're using their

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iPad. So it's >> I see it's William Alto is not here u and is attending virtually for the MURF members. U do you agree to have Mr. Alto attend the meeting virtually? >> Somebody make a motion.

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>> I make a motion. Mr. Alto attend the meeting virtually. >> I will second. >> All those in favor say I. >> I. >> Opposed. Motion carries unanimously. Bill, you're in. Thank you. Okay. >> Thank you very much.

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>> You get out of bed, Bill. >> Okay. >> Okay. With that um I will accept a motion to approve the agenda as written >> from anyone.

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>> I so moved and seconded to approve the agenda. >> I have a comment please. >> Is there any discussion? >> Yes sir. Uh I did not receive agenda and all right that was my mistake. It was distributed. I'm sorry. I do have one

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now. Thank you. >> Okay. >> Any further discussion? All those in favor of approving the agenda say I. >> I. >> Opposed. Motion carries. Thank you. Okay. With that, I am turning this over

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to Chris. >> Okay, we have a couple of sets of minutes to approve. We have our March minutes. Has everybody had a chance to take a look at those? >> Yes. >> Okay, >> Sam Luri, I move that we approve the March minutes.

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>> Second. >> All right. All in favor of approving the minutes as presented? >> I I >> Okay, those minutes are approved. Um, we also have the April meeting minutes. Has everybody had a chance to look at those?

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>> Yes. >> Um, Sam Lurri, I I motion to approve the April minutes with one change. >> Okay, Sam, what do you got? >> Um, Roman numeral number six, minor change. First sentence, um, reported that 20 vessels are anchored and I'd like to change that to mored in the

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back. Mooring field. That's the only change I have. >> I would say anchored. Is there not on a mooring? Oh, those were the ones that >> it's in the anchorage. So, that is that is correct. They are anchored vessels. They're not mored vessels. They're not on a morning bill or >> I'd like to move that we accept the

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minutes uh for April 16th as published. >> I'll second law will. >> Any further discussion on the minutes? Go ahead, John. >> Uh yes. On page three, there's a um section that's labeled motion, and it

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shows me making the motion and seconding the motion, which I don't believe is correct. >> Okay. So, we'll need to look back at the um actual I don't know if I wrote that down. If I can find that, I will make that correction. But

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>> I guess we can go to the videape. >> Yeah, as Warner Wolf used to say, let's go to the videape. That's just >> okay. So, we will make that correction. Is there any other correction needed from the April minutes?

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>> All right. So, we have a motion by Sam, a second by Ted. All in favor of approving with that correction say I. >> I. >> I. >> All right. Minutes approved as amended. >> Thank you, Chris. And for the MURF committee members,

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uh we have to approve the minutes from our April meeting. So at this point in time, I'll accept a motion to accept the minutes as published. >> Um before we approve these minutes on page three, it says that I had um reg

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rea had talked about the pedestrian staff safety at Lagona Shores crosswalk, but it says the north end. That should be the south end. >> Okay, we can make that change. That did I make that change, please? >> Yep. >> Thank you. >> Any further corrections to the minutes?

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>> No. >> Okay, then I'll accept a motion to accept the corrected minutes as stated. >> Somebody's got to make a motion. >> I wasn't here. So, I'm not I'll second.

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>> Will you make the motion? >> Okay. Chair made the motion. Are you seconding? >> Yeah, I am. >> There we >> Okay. Motion made and seconded. Any further discussion? All those in favor say I. I. >> I.

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>> Opposed. >> Motion carries. Thank you. >> Okay, >> that's done. All right. Next on the agenda, public comment. I notice we have two people in in the audience. Would either one wish to say

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anything at this point in time? >> Okay. >> There's one more on the right. Oh, I'm sorry. >> Hiding behind the chalkboard. >> No, I I should have mentioned Dan Olri. Is that correct? So, Dan is uh submitting an application to join the

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AAC. So, he is here watching our proceedings. >> Okay. Welcome. >> Welcome. >> And welcome welcome to the people in the audience. >> And with that, I will close public comment. And moving on to

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our current items, which is first on the list >> is the ferry and water taxi. And I am turning that over to Chris Weber or Chris King. >> Well, turn it over to Chris Weber. Chris Weber's not here. So,

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>> he's not here. >> Okay. >> Bad slate. >> All right. I'll do the first part of it here and then I will go to the whiteboard because we have a whiteboard. >> Oh, okay. Okay, I have that mic, too. Okay, so hopefully everybody printed

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this discussion draft and has had a chance to look at it. I am not going to go through the whole thing. I'm sorry. It was uh just distributed to the committee. So, I I apologize for that. It probably should have been made available to other people. >> Okay. But I'm going to go through kind

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of the the specifics of it and then we'll get to the gist of our discussion. So if you look at page two, what the town manager has asked us to do is review any environmental, navigational, operational, and community

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impacts of perhaps having a water taxi, water, ferry services. Consider regulatory tools or frameworks the town may need. Identify gaps in current town authority and opportunities for coordination with state and federal partners. provide recommendations to the town council on a governance approach

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that is proactive, protective, and adaptable. So, this document really was put together to give you kind of the basics of what something might look like and also go through the things that already exist because there really isn't

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that much that the town can necessarily control, but there are a few things, a few levers we could pull. So remember that our remmit is not to determine the viability or the desiraability of allowing these operations. It's to

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suggest what guard rails might be put in place in you know proactively by the town to govern any operations deemed allowable. Curtis, you look like you might want to say something at this point. Nope. >> Going going good. Okay.

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>> Okay. So I think our overall goal here um is to figure out something that has low environmental impact with maximum positive community impact and understand that we really have two different purviews that we're trying to cover off on. One is a water taxi service which

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the primary use case might be transportation to and from vessels in the mooring field, the anchorage. Um it would alleviate the use of dingies that are sometimes being left at the docks overnight which is not allowable. And then there's the water fairy service. When we think about that, a primary use

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case likely would be transportation between the ends of Fort Myers Beach during season to avoid traffic on Astero Boulevard. And a secondary use might be transporting people onto Fort Myers Beach from designated off island locations and back again. So some

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overarching concerns, speed, environmental protection. So we want to ensure the safety of our marine animals and ensure the protection of our waterways. waterway congestion, parking, and safe boating operation. So, there's a whole bunch, if you turn

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to page four, there's a whole bunch of federal, state, county, and local laws that already cover off on a bunch of things. We've already got coverage on speed and wake zones through FWC. We've got coverage on wildlife protection,

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FWC. We've got refuge, trash, waste disposal, also FWC. We've got operator qualifications and required licensing. That's federal through the Coast Guard. Um I'm not sure about emergency procedures and severe weather protocols. I'm guessing that's probably a Coast

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Guard thing as well, Curtis. Okay. Um and operators licensing. So business licensing would come through the county. And what I'm throwing out there is for the town's operating model would be a clear standardized permit for water taxi

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ferry operators, which would include environmental, navigational, and operational requirements. And there are really just a handful of things that I think fall into the gap that the town might want to consider having some guard rails about. But

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before I go to the whiteboard, any questions about what I've said so far, Jennifer? >> So, I spoke with um many friends on the island and uh people on canals uh residential canals and uh it seems like

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people are okay with this idea of having a water taxi. I opposed it only because of my concerns with the environmental concerns and making sure that lighting and and uh but there were a lot of

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questions uh and if I may may I bring them up or would you rather me bring up those questions towards the end? >> Well, remember we're not trying to decide whether or not this should be allowed. We're just trying to decide what guard rails should be put in place.

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So, as we go through these, if you could probably frame your questions, you know, to talk about guard rails and not about heck yes, heck no. >> Yes. I guess then to start it off, my first question would be, is this something that the town wants to

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actually manage and permit? My understanding would be yes because the request came to these joint committees from the town manager to say if this were allowable what sort of thing should we put in place but I will

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let uh Curtis and Chad opine >> I would say that's the perview of council on whether or not we want to regulate that and we'll give them our advice and let them decide whether or not it's not really staffed to say whether or not we want to regulate it. >> Go ahead.

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I do have a a question kind of to bounce off that is what's the big difference between this and any other just nature tour that's already out there. I mean they already have regulations with all the different organizations. They already have this. Yes, they're going to be going dock to dock or boatto but they

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already have to abide by a lot of laws and things and if the city's not going to oversee it, I don't see a big difference. Is there are we are we thinking there will be? So we we regulate uses. So different um properties are going to have uses

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associated with those properties, especially the commercial properties. And so we regulate those uses. >> Um difference between a say a tour that's already coming out of Pink Shell and not necessarily going anywhere else versus coming to

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MountainHouse and then Snookbite and then Fishtail Marina. We'd regulate the uses at those commercial facilities. Um, so there's there's just differences in the nature of the operation and um therefore it might be regulated differently.

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>> Okay. Thank you. Yep. That was my big question. >> I um >> go ahead, Tom. >> I maybe I missed it somewhere, but is this something that it it sounds like it's going to be a private um taxi service and or ferry?

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>> The town would not run. not not actually going to be in possession of this taxi service or anything. >> Correct. We're talking about outside entities outside will be taking care of both services. Correct. >> So like the moring field and stuff won't

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be anything to do with with the town. >> I'm just I'm real careful about speaking on behalf of the town. Neither Kurt or I are the town. So okay, I think that question is get more geared towards um >> town council. They are you know the elected representatives of the town. So, we're not going to really be able to

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speak to what the town wants to do or what the town is going to run or buy or etc. >> Again, again, the town has requested both committees to look at the possibility of

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the ferry service becoming a reality regardless of who's running it. town outside contract whatever and I think our job is to look at the guard rails as posted posed to us by the town manager

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>> but I'm thinking that if the town is operating this that the guardrails could actually be a little tighter as opposed to an outside organization where they're going to probably be able to go state and federal regulations over what we're going to try to put up for guardrails that's all I was wondering so depending

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on what avenue we're going to take if the town's going run this operation, then we can have a lot narrower guidelines as opposed to a private organization that says, "No, we're going to run year round." >> Yeah. >> And we're like, "Well, no, it's only during, you know, that kind of thing." So, that that's all that's the only reason I asked the question. I I it

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doesn't matter either way, >> right? And, you know, we don't know what >> but that kind of directs our guidance. Well, I I think we could still look at the things that lie outside the existing federal, state, local, county guidelines and say, "Okay, if we get to make a

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recommendation about these handful of things, here's what we would suggest." >> Sure. >> I think the focus needs to be on or the expectations are outside entities coming in and running these businesses opposed to the town. I think that's where the

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focus um needs to be. >> Perfect. Thank you. Okay, >> other comments or questions? >> I do have a comment, Madam Chair. >> Sure. >> And this may again also be out of turn and may be something that should be

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addressed when you're at the whiteboard, but on page four, there's a statement that says per operator qualification tax vessels would not would be a maximum of six passengers. Um I don't believe that is uh something we desire nor something

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that uh we would want to make a specification for. Uh water taxis quite often and every case that I'm aware of u are capable of more than six passengers and there's a significant desire to to to have that happen. Um you know to me a

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water taxi is a on demand service that goes from not specific points but to points that that they are allowed to go to and others that they can go to. So the max of six passengers I would like to um say that that is not a a proper

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statement. Uh the other statement for note, simply for note when you talked about weather, >> uh there are other water taxi services that um have a water taxi rough water waiver um that allows them to let the

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passengers know that they're okay with uh operating in that weather, although they want the um the passengers to agree that they're not uh that that they're doing it under their own um um safety >> accepting liability

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>> exacting liability and such. Uh that's just for note that again is something that the uh the operator of of the water taxi or of the ferry would uh that' be at their discret discretion. It's just a point of note. And the other thing is in

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in my definition a water taxi again is on demand service that goes um to where it's requested to go. A ferry service is a scheduled service that goes between designated points. And I'd like to make that clarification up front so when

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we're talking about the two, we understand the difference. >> Okay. And I would say that um the information that I provided about capacity comes from Curtis, which comes from Coast Guard regulations based on the type of vessels that would likely be

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used for these types of services. So Curtis, if you want to give a little more color there. >> Absolutely. So, um, so the reason why the taxi says six, six passengers usually, um, I was thinking, um, as opposed to the

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ferry, the ferry is going to be a larger amount of people, right? So, it's based off off the licenses, the captain's licenses that is that is I'm required. So if if you are in an a

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regular a regular six-pack license captain, you cannot hold more than six people on your vessel. So I thought that that fell more along the lines in in the taxi service that we were talking about. Now the ferry um it it goes off of the

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tonnage of the vessel and the passengers, right? So um for the for the ferry service it could either be a 25 ton license captain 50 ton or 100 ton um and that goes off the size of the vessel

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and then it goes off of how many passengers they can do. So the ferry is going to hold a lot more number number of people. So that license has to be a higher higher license. So, for the taxi service, I don't I don't think that we're going

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to be taking 50 people in a taxi to because you got to think about it. The fair is going to drop off at specific locations. The taxi service is more, you know, we can talk what the regulations are going to be, but it's kind of like

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on demand, right? So, I think there has to be a limit of passengers for the taxi service. You know, John, your point is well taken in that yes, it could potentially be a larger vessel for a taxi service, but then they would have to have the appropriate license

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>> and and that's not our concern. That's uh regulated by by federal law. Correct. >> My point is that um our we've kind of made an indication in this document that the taxi service would be a maximum of six passengers. I don't believe we should put that restriction on it. my

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experience in the in the many different taxi services I've been involved with, uh, seldom is it limited to six passengers, it's quite frankly desirable to have it more than that. And again, it comes down to what the operator proposes. >> Yep. And so I can

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>> Can we just insert the word generally? >> Yes. >> The the word um >> taxi vessels would generally Yep. >> be >> I I Sam, I hate to disagree with you, but I just think that's not a accurate statement. Well, I would say the majority um of the taxi services are

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six-pack, but if somebody wants a 12-pack or a 12 passenger boat, um the general t water taxis across the country are six six-pack boats, but they can be more. >> Okay? And and again, that's not my

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experience. In in the 12 or more taxi services that I've had personal interaction with, none of them have been a six-pack. They've all been larger. And there's economical and and environmental reasons and service reasons why that is desirable.

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>> And there's no reason to have that limitation. >> Okay. >> Properly licensed. >> That's my point. >> I agree. >> I'm happy to revise that and say uh passenger limitations may vary based on uh the desire of the operators and the licensing that that operator holds. My

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proposal here is that the document should just indicate the difference between a taxi service which is an ondemand service and a ferry service which is a scheduled service. It shouldn't get into any details associated with size of vessels, credential of vessels. Um that's uh uh

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that's something that's federally regulated and size of vessel uh would probably be a issue that's taken up with the supplier or the contractor on a on a basis of when we get into those negotiations. But I would throw out,

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would we want to recommend limitations on the number of passengers for either? >> No. No, I don't believe we want to. Um uh simply because uh it will limit the amount of contractors that would uh want to respond on this or or put them in a

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position where they uh may feel they don't qualify for economical reasons. And again, it's in a situation that's not common um in in general operation of taxi services. So again, I think we should totally eliminate anything in

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reference to to the number of of passengers and um again define the difference between a taxi service and a ferry service. As I stated, taxi service is on demand. Ferry service is scheduled. >> Okay, Tom. >> Um can I just throw this out there? Just

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John's got a good point, but if we want to put some guardrails on something, you don't want the um you don't want the the Key West Express going up and down our uh river either. I don't want to look at that in my marina where I live. So, if we if we can at least limit passengers plus the size of six-pack, that type of

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boat being able to maneuver in and out of the moring field because those are the people that probably 99% of the time are going to be calling for. So, if we limit the size of the uh passengers, that would limit the size of the boats that we're getting up and down the river. Otherwise, you get

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something that a dinner cruise that drafts 3 ft, they're going to fish tail. Well, again, I I think um the discussion about the size of vessel is distinctively different from the qualifications of the vessel. um that at this point we're talking about the

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operational limitations and those operational limitations shouldn't dictate the uh or any way be connected to the amount of people the um the taxi service uh should should uh uh be capable of carrying. I certainly agree

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with you that there uh should be recommendations and concerns about the size of vessels, but the size of vessels do not dictate the amount of people that the vessel can carry. >> No, but economically, I'm not going to put a dinner cruise boat there for six people.

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>> So, I understand limited, but I don't know if there's any way we can limit what they come in. Is that could that be part of the perimetering process >> outside of having these? Anyone from this end of the table have any comments on this part of the discussion?

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>> I I just have one and and I think I think economics number one are going to dictate the size of the craft. >> You know, as pointed out, uh, nobody's going to take a 50 person boat down for

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six people running a ferry service. It's just not going to happen. Um secondly, I I think the town council should be looking at what size they want to have running up

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and down and what they want to do as far as looking at what type of boat license and what the size of the boats. I think for us we can determine the guardrail saying this is a point that you should

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look at size of boat capacity per boat and the license involved in running it. uh as part of looking at, you know, writing an ordinance. >> Um because we all have different

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opinions on how big is too big coming down a canal, how big is or how small is too small coming into a marina. And I think the economics will dictate the size of the boat in the craft. And we

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should just point out to the town council, this is an area of concern and we suggest that you look at boatsiz capacity for a ferry and for a taxi service. And I agree with the definition

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>> from the gentleman to my right, John. Um, as far as we should dict, we should outline a description of what we feel a ferry service and a taxi service is. And I think he did an outstanding job

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defining that. >> That's my two cents. >> And I agree with you totally. Um, uh, I'm just trying to make the point that the amount of people in the vessel is immaterial. What's important is the size of vessel and where the vessel operates.

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Rob, did you have something? >> No. >> Okay. Curtis, do you want to talk just briefly maybe about a likely, you know, sort of a a max size for maneuverability within the mooring field because I think Tom made a good point about that.

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So I think from from our just our just our understanding or my my understanding um from uh talking with management for um the town and everything like that. So um our understanding is we thought that the taxi service would be a smaller

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vessel to be able to maneuver properly down the canals within the morning field that kind of thing. And then um the ferry is your bigger is your bigger operation. So I think the idea was to have smaller vessels operate for the

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taxi service rather than you know what I mean? I mean we're not going to have >> I mean we're thinking of taxi service like think of the um the vessel that runs out of Salty Sam's Marina um um the sightseer. It's a pontoon boat with big

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300 engines. It's it's about, you know, 40 to 50 foot long. That's going to be very hard being able to operate down the canals. And say if if a vessel that size I mean, you know, I know you stated, you

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know, it doesn't matter, but that's a different that operator has to have a higher a higher license to operate. So, I think it kind of goes in with what Dave said, the economics and stuff like that. So, I

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think the taxi services should be and probably will be smaller, smaller vessels. >> And give me a foot size. >> And that's just my opinion. So, I'm saying anywhere from um I'm saying anywhere from 18t to probably

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25 foot would be, you know, we could probably stretch that maybe 30 max, you know, is kind of my idea kind of my thinking in my mind. I mean, that's >> I have a question. >> That's my opinion. Sure. >> Um,

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>> is there so I I you said previously there seems to be a want from people in the morning field for a service or is that the city's want to get some of those boats off of the dock for overnight? >> I think it's >> it's both.

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>> Both. Okay. And then the other question is um anyone on council or anyone, how much of a demand for either of these types of services are we hearing? I hear it a lot potentially for the parking lots that are like over by Doc Fords to

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come over to like Times Square or the one that's um by Diversified to come over. So, I hear like a want for something like that to avoid the beach traffic over the bridge, but as far as up and down, I'm just curious what what are we hearing? >> Like how much of a demand really is

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there for one versus the other? >> Yeah. And I think what again our remit is not to figure out whether it's desirable whether it's you know in the next month or so I we were asked to come up with guidelines should it become a reality and I do think that we have heard and we know that there was a fairy

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service prior to Ian that existed and there's nothing now. Well, and and the my followup to that was once once we established if if there is a want for it, it's then yes, >> depending on how much of a want that might determine how we should regulate the size of the boat. >> Exactly. >> Because I don't see it for a big boat in

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any way, shape, or form. Like those little the six-pack pontoons that are what 20 ft >> correct >> at most. Like I think I >> in regards to uh taxi services that uh existed I I've spoken with people that

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actually started taxi services 30 years ago uh here on Fort Myers Beach and they did it wasn't sustainable uh even in the season it wasn't sustainable um

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financially and uh so I wonder you know How far do we uh take this permitting? Do is does permitting uh this type of business uh mean that we enforce the guidelines and the guard rails that

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you are all speaking of. I'm just curious. >> So, I'm hearing a lot of questions with regards to regulatory permitting, what will be allowed, and I mean Curtis and I are not going to be able to answer these questions. So, I would just encourage, you know, we have open-ended questions.

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You know, again, to uh Miss Chris's point, we're concerned about size. We're concerned about A, B, C, and D. And these are the guard rails that were our concerns and our suggestions and keep it at that. But, we're not going to be able to answer regular. >> Totally understandable. That's why I'm,

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you know, I I don't I would hate for the town to waste the resources of the town staff. If we're permitting, that's great. But, um, if you permit something, you have to enforce the permit. And if

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the town can't enforce a permit, uh, then, uh, it should maybe fall back onto the Coast Guard and FWC to take care of any regulations. >> I I don't I don't It seems It seems we're getting off in the weeds a little

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bit here. Yeah. Um, as far as the regulations, as it was discussed earlier, uh, the operators, whether they're whether it's a ferry or or a taxi, uh, they're going to have to fall under all of the federal, state, and local guidelines. Um, we don't

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necessarily need town guidelines. Uh, um, uh, we can, they can operate under guidelines, regulations that are already in place. And as far as a permit, uh enforcing a permit, um if we don't have any regulations that are any different

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than the than the federal, state, and local regulations, then we don't have to police it. These these other these other organizations are already going to be policing it. And then as far as the size of the boats or the number of passengers, this is a this is a free

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enterprise thing. Uh it's going to wind up determining itself. and whether it winds up being uh economically viable or not, it's it's that it shouldn't matter to to us or the or the town itself. >> The point >> because the town's not going to be operating them. >> The point that I was trying to get to

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with my initial question um about demand so was to get an answer for town council because a lot of these things are already going to be regulated just by being a vessel on the water, >> right? So the type of thing that the town I feel could regulate is just and

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this is why I was trying to build to that. I didn't mean to get us off into the weeds, but it's how many of these companies would be allowed. We could regulate that. >> So getting to that point is is what you're doing. >> Demand demand is already going to dictate how many. >> Well, >> but that's but that's my point. So and

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that would be why we would recommend Well, I don't think there's a big demand for people going back and forth. Maybe one boat gets a permit through the city to go from Little San Carlos to Asterero and then Okay, but there's a bigger demand to go from Bowic to Matanzas Pass. So then

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there'd be a You know what? You see where I'm going with that's what I was trying to get to. >> Yeah, but there it won't work that way because you're not going to know what the demand is until the service starts operating. >> And so you may need to revisit, >> right? But that and that's where but I think we start at a base. We're saying we're going to give we're going to allow

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it potentially for one group, >> which I I direct your attention to the whiteboard. So, those are the six things that I think we actually could have a recommendation on. So, it's the number of licenses or permits for either of

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those services. An operating fee, I don't know that we really will have I I don't know what other operating fees would be comparable. uh insurance and liability minimums. Some of that will be dictated, I think, by virtue of being a captain and having to have certain

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liabilities, but we might have some other thresholds to consider. The hours or months of operation, noise, loud music restrictions, and designated docking and passenger parking. I think in my those, you know, in my perview, I

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think those are the things that are gaps that aren't covered by the other things. So if we could at least have sort of a leading statement about how we would like that to be applied, I think that would be helpful. >> Does that make sense to people? >> I agree. Especially with the insurance,

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that's something that we should set limits on. >> Okay. So number of licenses or permits for either service, we're sort of leaning toward the one to two minimal. Again, um

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I I think from a taxi purist taxi standpoint, um I envision something similar to uh somebody registering an Uber type taxi system where someone is downtown

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lives on the south end says, "Boy, can you come over, pick me up at, you know, under the bridge or whatever? I'd like to go home. Here's my $20. Take me to the south end and dial up and there's a

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boat there. Takes them down." That's a taxi service >> versus a ferry service which is operating kind of like the trolley and you can say, "Okay, um, we're going to be done dining at 9:00 listen to music, but we

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want to be under the bridge because the 10:00 ferry is going to be there and that's the last run of the night going south to drop everyone off." So, that's what I envision. Now, as far as a ferry service, yes, I think we could limit the

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number of license. As far as a taxi service, I don't envision people doing it because some guy may want to do it one night a week, some lady may want to do it seven nights a week, and everything in between. And

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again, I'm I'm a econ guy. supply and demand will find the sweet spot on the golf course. >> You're I I think Dave is exactly right. I I don't think should be an actual limit even on the permitting part. I'm

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telling you I if if the town's open to doing this and they're open to to to moving forward with this idea and they decide they come to a point to where they could actually issue a permit, it's it's a free market. the people that want

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to try it will come and get a permit and in a short period of time, the ones that can't do it or can't make money, they won't be doing it. The ones that can and then they can make money that have a better business plan or have figured it out better, they'll continue to do it. And it it will only grow

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or survive based on the interest of the public that's using it. And so it will very quickly reach an equilibrium and and it'll and work from there where whether whe whether it works up or whether it doesn't work and works down

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all that. I don't think the town needs to be figuring out any of that stuff. I think we'd need to be looking at the restrictions of um to to protect our to protect our shorelines and our environment as the wakes and the manatees and the speeds and and uh those

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are the things um uh that I'm not sure are under federal and state guidelines. They are >> they are >> the wake zones, all of that stuff totally mapped out. Yeah. Those are the things that we need to make sure that are being enforced and that and and and

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that whoever's doing this. >> If we create here's a here's a how where it all is the the speed zones. If we create though without regulations that type of environment. I mean taxis work by how many fairs they get and if they're uh racing each other, if they're

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speeding each other, if there's no regulations, at least initially, you're right. It'll be like a it'll be like survival of the fittest. Eventually it'll even out. then they'll have just a few. >> But at the beginning, >> well, we could be creating a perfect storm of companies trying to out compete each other and trying to speed, trying

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to beat each other two different fairs. >> But don't don't we have Coast Guard here? Don't we have people >> enforcement is the issue. We have the best environmental laws in the country in Florida, but zero to no enforcement. We really do. >> Well, enforcement is not the >> That's what we need to be looking into, >> unless you're in certain areas.

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>> That that that's the that's the thing that I think that needs to be our major concern. that that that should be the priority in this thing. >> I believe charter captains are already operating taxi services legally. >> So, >> I'm sorry. >> No, go ahead.

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>> On they are on demand. They're being hired. They're licensed. They have occupational license. I They may not be as publicized. Um when I was chartering, I provided taxi services occasionally. A lot of fishing charter boats do it. um

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as long as they have um proper bases to to dock at, I think they're already operating as taxis on on demand where where and when people want them. >> And do they need to be permitted from the >> I'm sorry I

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>> these are all licensed on the floor. >> Yeah, >> I think I'm recognized on the floor. Thank you. Um I agree 100% with what you're saying that uh town's responsibility is to determine landing positionings or or proper places to land

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and the size of vessels um in certain zones uh as far as uh as far as uh what speed they can operate at uh what conditions they can operate under uh

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what their impact is under u sea life. uh that is all state federal already regulated. I think this the purpose of this committee is to determine

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size limitations and uh and and where they can land. Uh rest of it, you're 100% right, is going to be determined by the people that choose to apply to do this permit. And before I get to you, Jennifer, I

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just want to say I really liked how you framed things, Dave, talking about a taxi service being an Uber. So is there a registration for those people who want to do that and they'll either make money or they won't and then you know their registration lapses and maybe it's more

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of a you know a permit for the ferry operation which we think will probably be a limited interest because you know there's only so much and so much time but go ahead Jennifer. Oh, I was just uh referring to what you were saying um

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about uh that there's these fishing uh boats and other people that are providing the service. Are they permitted through the town to do that or is there something that you actually have to get a permit to be a taxi service?

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Does it go out of the scope of actually being a fishing charter, things like that? >> Yeah. I who knows the answer to that one. Yeah, again I would let's have these questions and we can bring them to legal and see what um I just don't want to give answers that I don't I'm not

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fully knowledgeable on and >> yeah, that's why I'm asking. >> So people who rent watercraft um on the beach, I'm assuming that they have to have some sort of a permit to be able to operate in that way from from the town. Is that correct?

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>> Yes. Well, I believe any business in the town needs to be to have a permit. Um I I don't know if >> occupational license and a um commercial or acceptable location. >> Exactly.

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>> And with with that when you do your cap when you do a charter, you have to submit your active captain's license. >> Yes. >> And that's it. So people are already legally probably doing taxis. So, you get a permit through the town and you have to provide that information, your

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license and things to the town. Correct? >> No, it's it's it's simply limited to um commercial operations. It's not you don't submit your license. Uh uh that's all under federal and state regulations.

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It's not something the town shouldn't force or could enforce. >> Thank you. Okay. >> They do enforce the occupational license part of it just like any other business. >> So we we have questions as to what

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actual permits might be required. Um but I think the two things that we have sort of come to consensus on are that we would want to enforce size of vessel operating especially within the mooring field and the

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anchorage areas to be between 18 and 30 ft. Yes. >> And especially draft. >> And especially draft >> going through the Chad and Curtis can give you um updates on like an acceptable draft. Everything now is pretty much Corinthian catamarans that draw I don't know probably less than

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three feet of water and they can tell you exactly what the limits would be especially during the winter time. >> Could I make u maybe a suggestion? So some of these things we just can't regulate. They're either already regulated or >> Exactly. >> So in lie of an operating fee because I

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feel like that would be hard to get into. Yes. Could we have something where whoever wants to operate this, they would go through Fort Myers Beach and it could be like some type of online course where it's like Fort Myers Beach certified taxi. Fort Myers Beach certified, you know. So, it's not a

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legal. It's kind of like the Dolphin Smart programs that certain um groups go through. It It's not a license. It's nothing other than a bragging right to say I went through the proper training. I follow these standards that are higher than this other person who just has a boat. Mhm.

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>> So it might be a way of not necessarily enforcing or and putting more weight on whoever would be enforcing some of these >> educational educational type. If it could be a required that'd be great but something where they could just brag about it where we can say >> on the website these are the taxi

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services we endorse. Mh. >> These are the ones that have gone through our program. And maybe a little too that it it's like you said, we like before, we're getting in the weeds on things that we would like it to be and a lot of speculation where at the end of the day, we we like there's already laws

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about noise and that and certain hours of operations and things like that, other places. >> Um, so maybe just having a Fort Myers Beach certified taxi. Fort Myers, you know, >> Rob, the only thing I would be concerned with um as a taxpayer is liability. When

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the town endorses something like that, I would think that if there's something that goes arai, then >> yeah, that's what I'm that's what addendums are for and changing. I know what I hear what you're saying though. It could lead us up, but if we wrote in some kit contract that, you know,

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there's ways around it. I hate to say it like that, but I'm the legal guy. We have we have a town website, I believe, that has private parking as well as town parking for parking spaces that shows

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spaces available. And I don't see why we couldn't have a a taxi service, water taxi service website, and the people that go on the website that can advertise on it could

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literally have to go through, prove their insurance, pick a number, say they have to have a $3 million insurance. They've completed the, you know, taxi certification course for the town. um they've read through all of the rules,

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regulations, and then they can post on the town's website, water taxi website. We don't we don't say anything other than these people have complete completed it. They paid their operating fee and they've

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completed the town course and they're available and you get 20 20 operators. It's on your phone. Boom, boom, boom. Where do you want? Pick me up here. Here's a picture of your driver and

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you know meet you underneath the bridge. >> So that's for the taxi >> correct? >> Okay. >> Can I one more thing and for >> for the fairies you know for the for the charter boats there are some canals that can handle a

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50ft >> Yeah. >> pontoon boat and some that cannot. And I think leaving it up to the discretion of the captain of the boat is why he's captain of the boat >> for a taxi or for a ferry

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>> for for a taxi carrying large people >> or a large number of people large a large number of people >> because you know we have a keyhole channel on ours and we brought 50 foot

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boats that carried 49 people. They can turn around, drive all the way out. It's deep enough. We're one of the few, but we've we've got that option at the end of our canal.

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And there are other canals that can do the same thing. So, we have to be careful of as to how tight we make the restrictions on it. >> Yes. Council MLAN. >> Yeah. Uh John Mlan. So I was Do I have

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to hold it closer? >> Okay. Um yes I do. >> So I think the types of things number one the town does provide licenses for things like personal watercraft rentals, parasailing, things like that. And they

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also have uh guidelines of how many or how densely situated they could be. In other words, you I'm just looking at the ordinances here. Um they include things like restricted speed uh in slow zones

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and things like that. I'm not sure if it's appropriate or if it's over ordinanced, but that's what's existing for regulating water-based businesses in the town now. And it it it talks about

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both limiting the number. In other words, uh if you're doing parasailing, you have to be at least 500 ft away from the next parasail operator. You have to have a landbased office with a telephone that you can be contacted at so that if there are complaints, etc., that there

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is an a method to reach these businesses. in that. So I I would start thinking around how do we want these businesses to operate? Not the maritime marine regulations that captains are

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going to have to do, but how do we want to either control, limit or open up >> the businesses >> and what types of when I say guidelines, it's we don't want them operating in the environmentally critical zones. That's

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like boom. I think that would be a pretty easy one, but it would be more of those types of things. I hope that helps guide you a little bit. >> And just to clarify, Dave, a quick perusal of the town website under the parking u issue is just about town

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parking. >> Oh, okay. >> So, to Jennifer's point, I don't think the town wants to get in to endorsing certain businesses, whether they do them all or not. That's just something I don't think we'd want to do. >> I have a question for the town

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councilman. Um, Vice Mayor Adderhold negotiated on the arches. He negotiated a ferry terminal with a total bailout if it's not profitable. Um, they don't they don't have a shovel on the ground. They don't even have a shovel on the property. And this whole thing is kind

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of predicated on that on that terminal. Um, I don't believe they segregated parking for it. the other location at Junkanu there is not there's not enough or that marina there snookbite there's not enough parking now there I don't know how you could possibly segregate parking how are we going to deal with

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that and what's the status on the arches because we did agree to something um for a terminal there >> um good question I don't have an answer for you Sam I don't uh Jim was involved in that um so I it it

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only came as far as it came. So, I think again it's open-ended as how they want to run it. U but it's that's just one of the destinations. >> My suggestion is if you do a terminal there, there has got to be some I know most people are going to try to walk,

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but there's got to be some kind of segregated parking added to their project if this is included. >> Thank you. >> Thanks, >> Tom. So, to just cir circle back to the beginning of this thing and what we're supposed to be doing, the six named

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uh towns within Florida and two outside. What have they done as far as what we're trying to do? Guard rails. We're trying to reinvent the wheel. They've already done this and a lot of these are established. Nucket, Massachusetts been doing it forever. What have they done for the town for the things that we're

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trying to do right here as opposed to whether we like it or don't like it or how many boats and this and that that's got to do with the town council and what did they do that for the environmental side of it. Has anybody I mean we named them. Is there any information on that or

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>> that has earthshattering that we said, "Wow, we should do something make sure we have this in there." >> Yeah, but I was definitely going to suggest that we look into what other uh water communities are doing. >> Well, they're listed here that comparative towns. So, and they're Florida and there's a couple outside of

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it and I know there's many many more. Um but what what what have they done that is earthshattering if anybody even knows? If not, then something for >> No, I can dig into >> if we table this whole deal and we do it down the road and get some of these kind of answers and whether council >> as far as limiting boat sizes, things

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like that. If that those are answers that after they have a meeting, they can figure that out. And >> well, I think what I can do is I can sort of round up all of the things that we've talked about and say, "Okay, here's kind of where we're leaning. Here are the ideas we're thinking about. I'm happy to do a little bit more

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information or you know info gathering on those Florida towns to see if they have set specific regulations for the town for our you know perusal and uh I don't know if it it'll take another joint meeting to just sort of go over that and say hey and at the end of the

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day we think that these are three or four things we want to recommend. Curtis what do you think? I just want to state that we are aware of um and we have um know that there are other um

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municipalities that have taxi service and stuff like that. So just remember this is just one piece to the puzzle for um the town and town council to figure out. So, we want to get y'all's opinions and guidelines, but we also um know that

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we have back-end work uh to do to look into these other other businesses. So, we are are aware of it and it's something that we are we are uh looking into as well and and to get with those municipalities and understand how they

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how they operate and everything. So, I think what you're saying is, hey, you guys don't need to go and dig really much more deeply, but perhaps stay at the surface. And it's these things that we're concerned about. We're definitely concerned about enforcement of the

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regulations that already exist. Of course, we want to make sure that there is very little, if no, impact to our environmental waterways, our our animals, all of that sort of thing. So maybe with that sort of frame in mind, I

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will create uh you know a very s simple document and say hey here are the things that we're concerned about and things that you know it might be up to town council and legal to decide but when you put together an ordinance you might want

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to consider what's already existing for these water recreational organizations that have been allowed to operate. you don't want to create something that's totally different from what you already have or you might need to take another look at those and bring things together. Oh

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>> yes, Councelor King. >> Uh yes, thank you, Chair King. >> Okay. >> Um Tom, you make a great point. Um let's not uh for lack of a better term, reinvent the wheel, but let's look at best practices from those entities and then also try to figure out what might

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be unique to Fort Myers Beach. >> Right? So I think you know if we can come up with here are our major concerns and if we were you we would have you dig into this but then count on staff to really do the digging to find the best practices to bring something to life. I

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think that's what I'm hearing from people. >> I think if I can give you the because we had a meeting prior to this >> discussing it and I think the number one topic the number one concern that we all

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came out in unison on on our meeting was speed. We said speed is the number one concern that we have on both the fairies and the taxis for a number of things. It it

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hurts the environment, the grasses, the shores, >> and it's also dangerous. >> My boat in my marina. >> Yeah, your boat. Your marina. >> You're 100% right. And I think that uh the town should really be sitting down with FWC and even the Coast Guard and

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start enforcing the the regulations that are on the river. I can't tell you myself and and a spectator here, Daniel Dy, we've lived full-time in a marina on the outside dock and I can't tell you how he's got a bullhorn that he has to tell people to please slow down. It couldn't be marked any better around

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Snookbite Marina and it doesn't matter. >> It's currently >> and it's not and it's not your renters. They're actually for the most part respectful. It's residents down here and it's outrageous the comments that we get when we ask them please slow down. It's a no wake zone. I got a 50ft boat that's

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slamming against the dock and all the rentals and stuff that are there and so that I mean we need to get more enforcement. We have an FWC boat that sits at our marina and it just sits there. >> Doesn't move. >> Doesn't move at all. And it's and it's outrageous to me that and when it does move it's gone. and it disappears and I

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we never see it and I've never really seen an enforcement up and down the river. So, I'd like to have the town at least start putting that as a priority and that will take care of that problem that you're worried about. >> And it's currently

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>> I couldn't agree more. Um the the whole thing boils down to enforcement. >> The regulations are already there. Everything is in place. There's nothing needs to be added. They just need to be enforced. And and if you if you're going to increase the boat traffic, commercial

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boat traffic, you just need to make sure that they follow the the regul rules and the regulations. And the only way you're going to be able to do that is through having somebody >> enforcement >> enforcing it. And so the the key to this

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is from what I'm seeing or or from what I have read uh uh through this stuff the the key the concern of the town someone somehow the town needs to get

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with the Coast Guard and they need to if we don't have enough here if there aren't enough Coast Guard boats here maybe we need a couple more. >> What's the sheriff's department and the FWC? Lee County needs to start stepping up to >> and those aren't those aren't town funded things. It doesn't cost the town

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any more money. It costs the state and it costs the county. And if there's and if there's a need for more enforcement, then pressure needs to be put on the county and the state to to have have a little more uh u enforcement, more

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people to to to enforce those regulations. And and that's the that's key to this whole thing. I don't know how Rob would know more than I do. Um there there were like almost a hundred manatees that died this past >> that that died this past this past this

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past winter and and um um and some the majority of them were from the cold but there were I was astonished there was like 30 of them >> breaking records already. It's >> yeah that that were killed by boat by boat strikes. >> We pulled one out yesterday and this was going to be a members item but we're on it if that's okay.

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>> Sure. It's it's essentially it is we I was gonna my members I was going to be asking you guys please get the mayor to start reaching out because the the law enforcement that I see please correct me if I'm wrong law enforcement that I see enforcing the speeds is the sheriff FWC enforces when they're breaking

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environmental laws but they none of them work together. Coast Guard is off doing stuff off the coast. FWC is if you are like overseass beds or they're they're monitoring fishing and things like that. They can enforce the speeds, but the sheriff is the one that I see once in a

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while. But I was going to ask if we can get the mayor to please reach out to the sheriff's department because they're the ones we need more north, south, and middle of the island, like just a constant patrol cuz it it is it's out of hand. Um the manatee uh we pulled out

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yesterday. Um she made it up to Tampa, but she's probably not going to make it. Like it just like I'm I'm sick and I'm getting emotional, but I'm tired of seeing the other side of this. And when I'm on my kayak tours, like I try my best and it is it's it's the people that are renting the boats that aren't

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educated the best, but as soon as you approach them and tell them, you know, this is slow speed, this is manate zone. They're right away. I'm so sorry. I didn't know, but that I didn't know was a problem and a fault of the rental companies. The locals though >> are the ones. So, if if we're going to get, you know, more businesses and more

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things doing this, we we got to step up. And I really think more enforcement will solve a lot of the problems on that board and a lot of our worries and issues. And it's it's it's not on it's not on the city other than the mayor has pull because he's the mayor. You guys have poll because you know the mayor, you know what I mean? It it's just it's

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just that. So, I'm I'm I'm begging you guys like I'm I'm sick of pulling out animals. >> Yeah. I mean the speed thing has been something that numerous people have brought to our attention and it's you know something that uh we're very concerned about and that's why that lovely map exists. It's a way of

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educating and I I do think that it is about education for all the rental companies for everybody and so >> uh we'll keep working on that but uh I kind of want to >> just um regulations are are in place um we have thin resources so what we can do

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as a committee and everybody can do is a lot of this is complaint driven everyone has a phone with video and if you can zoom in on FL numbers and and you know I don't know why That's fine. But that's, >> you know, that's a way

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>> by the time you call, they're gone. The >> That's okay. You have FL numbers and you have a video of them flying down, throwing awake. Um, that's a start to enforcement is complaint driven complaints. >> So, before I sort of close this, because

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I think we've we've talked about a lot of these things, uh, here's what I'm going to do. I'm going to put, like I said, a document together that really summarizes our concerns and our recommendations. It's not really some firm recommendations, but I think it might be enough to provide guidance to

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the council. But before I close it up, Bill, do you have anything you want to add to the conversation? I'm putting you on the spot. >> Watching Blue. >> Oh, yeah. Okay. >> Is that Bill me? >> Yes. Bill U. Yes. Anything? >> Um, yeah. When you're talking about

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other municipalities that are closed, has anybody been down to Naples and taken the water taxi down there? It's called a water taxi, but it operates um uh as want to use the proper term.

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It's not the water taxi, it's the >> ferry. >> Fairy. >> Okay. it uh it's a circular route which is different than what we're talking about for a ferry service >> on Fort Myers Beach, but it goes it had six distinct stops.

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You know, if it doesn't matter which stop you're on, they'll be back an hour later. >> Mhm. So the restaurants know it, the bars know it, the hotel knew, you know, if if you showed up and said, "Hey, I' like to have lunch here, but I'd like to

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be back on the ferry in an hour." They took they they paid attention to that. >> Okay. >> So that was pretty good. Now, how we differ, you know, we we are more in a straight line. And I I think one of the areas that I

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think the town has to focus on is coming up with an agreement with uh available docks, right? or whether it's a marina or whatever the right term is for that. But

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I think one of the major goals is to take the traffic off of the stero during prime time >> and move it off to a more enjoyable route. But to do that then you need the available parking, >> right?

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>> Okay. That that's to me is is key. And if you look from the south side heading north, um you know, you got uh big complexes down there off of Bay Beach Road. Uh Wateride's a big one. I think they have

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a >> All of them have marinas down there or >> do Yep. And then you move up. And I think the town would behoove to get an agreement with a marina or dockage

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that can have parking. You'll have a restaurant or two or a bar or two that they can enjoy the weight. But uh Naples has a pretty good setup down there. It It's a lot smaller in scale because it's not What are we four

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or five miles from north to south? >> Seven. >> Yeah. I mean, I >> I've never made it all the way up because of all the traffic during the prime time. >> So, it's only four miles and a turn around. >> All right. Thanks, Bill. >> May I?

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>> Yes. The average uh to go from one end of the island to the to the south, the north to the south takes roughly about 45 minutes to an hour >> uh >> by boat. Jennifer. Okay.

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>> Okay. Using the appropriate speed >> and and being careful. This isn't the inner coastal highway. This is, you know, uh sensitive eststeraries that we have to, you know, be careful of. Okay. >> Okay. I just want to say Todd, Sharon,

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do you have anything you want to add? >> No. >> Okay. I just want to make sure we heard from everybody. Ted. >> Okay. All right. Well, thank you everybody very much for all of your input on this. I will wrap something up, get it back to you for your uh consideration and then uh Dave and I will talk about how we make those

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recommendations formally to council. >> Yep. Okay. Um moving on to the second item on our agenda. And again, this was requested by our town manager to take a look at this. This was in response to a complaint that

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came from uh a condominium on the south end of the island. They had a substantial amount of u algae that had accumulated. And by algae, I'm talking about the seaweed. I'm not sure exactly what the

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correct term is. Sargasm. >> Algae is fine. >> What? >> Algicide. >> Algae is fine. >> Algae is fine. I mean, it it could be sargasm. It could be red drift algae. >> I call it sargasm, but you know. >> Sure. Algae is fine. >> Okay. Algae is fine. And I went down and

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took a look at it after getting the uh email from the town manager. And apparently what has happened after Ian is there's been a a pool that has formed, a tidal pool that is formed that has water going in

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and out with the tides. Uh algae is coming in and not coming out of the title pool. And as the rainwater and the tides and the king

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tides aren't there, it's getting stuck in there and slowly starting to decompose and has a very obnoxious smell. And I'm talking to the president of the condo there, and he and I spent probably

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a good hour and a half looking at it. Um, I said I would bring it up at our meeting and find out exactly what our what our town policy is for uh removal

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of algae and if it's even in the town's purview to do this because it's also right next to the shorebird nesting area and there is a cazillion floor shorebirds that are all flocked around the title pool which I explained to him

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probably negates anything that he would even remotely wish to have happen to it. But I wanted to bring that up, explain it, and I'm turning it over to our environmental doctor Chad. >> Whoa. All right. Um

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Chad shoots for the record, uh town staff. So, uh we have an algo accumulation policy for the town. It's been in place for a while. Uh it was based on the Santael policy. Um just kind of beg, borrow and

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stole from that. Uh it reads that, you know, in order for the town to go out and remove algae, um it needs to be, you know, around, you know, if it's 30 ft wide, around a foot on average in depth and uh about a

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quarter of a mile or 1,000 ft uh in length to justify going to collect it. Um that's more or less how we've been operating and um that does uh very much happen whenever we have these tropical storms. Um we had a pretty quiet

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hurricane season uh thank god for last summer. Um and maybe you know the grass didn't get mowed and these winter storms have kind of been bringing it in intermittently with every winter storm that we have. And a lot of the old-timers have been um educating me

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that they've never seen it like this before during during the winter period. We certainly get it every summer um that I've been here. But um um you know, now that it's here during the people season, we get a little bit

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more attention uh uh to it from from our visitors and uh and residents. So, uh, and I don't I don't want to necessarily just focus in on that on on the 8000 block. Um, that is a special case and,

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um, I I I'd like to get some direction from y'all on that. But also, just as a general, um, you know, beach management policy, uh, you know, we have limited resources. TDC does give us money for cleaning this

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up. We are a tourist beach and um you know our our socioeconomics are very much tied to uh uh our visitors pleasure while they're visiting our beach and not everybody finds um you know waiting through algae or stepping over algae or

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smelling algae uh enjoyable. So, uh, staff is very much sensitive to that and we're also sensitive to the delicate balance with our environment and making sure our our shore birds and, uh, and wildlife, um, have that rack line to to

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forage and, uh, and do their thing in. Um, so I guess what I'm looking for is some guidance uh, from uh, each of the committee members and maybe a consensus uh, as to how we want to proceed. I can

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uh I can give you my two cents before or after whichever y'all prefer. >> I prefer before. >> Okay. So my >> and then after see if we change. >> Yeah. >> Sure. So you know my two cents is this is primarily let it be complaint driven.

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Um I guess there's there may need to be a threshold of is is it just one complaint? you know, um, you know, uh, that, you know, maybe maybe it's the same person, maybe it's not the same person, but, um, is it just, you know,

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is that threshold just one or whatever? Generally, we do get a complaint, we will go out and look at it no matter what, even if it's one or many. Um, but, you know, is there is there a complaint threshold that we want to consider? Um, and then is there a physical threshold?

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And um I generally, you know, I'm I'm generally more responsive to algo complaints um downtown in our in our tourist district, so to speak. But having said that, Fort Myers Beach is kind of like one big tourist district

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with, you know, all the rentals, houses that we have renting, condos that we have renting. Um, everybody has a vested interest and, you know, ignoring one section of the beach, um, you know, that single family home has their business, you know, so to speak, you know, right

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there that we can't necessarily ignore. So, again, do we give preferences to location? So, you know, um, is that something that we can should consider? Um and then then just kind of the general state of affairs. If it's

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smelly, you know, slippery, maybe representing a, you know, a viable trip hazard. um you know just the physical nature of it you know uh is there any kind of threshold there where um the

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amount of it you know necessitates or is it you know Chad use your best judgment and you know with available resources cuz you know even even if TDC is paying for it um uh that doesn't mean we necessarily have staff available you

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know 247 to coordinate and facilitate um the the pickup of the algae. So um I guess I'll I'll I'll leave it there with your for your feedback. >> Make one comment. Sure. >> I would just like to say thank you for

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telling us what the current sort of status is that there actually is a standard that in order to remove it, it's got to be a foot average in depth, a quarter mile in length, and 30 feet wide. That is really helpful because that allows us to sort of educate people on, hey, you haven't seen where some of

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this algae really is. So, in comparison, yours might not be quite as bad as other places. Not that we all love the algae, but uh I think that's a helpful at least guideline as to when you start to get involved. >> And and as I've come to discover, if you make that threshold too low, you are

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this becomes a daily exercise. I mean, it's, you know, so and once you do it once it, you know, you set that expectation that you're going to be out there. >> Um, and um, >> let me just also go through we we have an FD permit. We're not just allowed to

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do that because we're a government and we we can go do anything we want. We have a we have to go and ask the state permission and get their authorization. Um and when we went back this this past um year to uh address the issues, the state issued a permit and um it was

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language that I hadn't had before. Um and not necessarily that I didn't agree with it um but the language was uh you know disperse the algae at the title line um where it's been accumulated and if it's still there after four title cycles then you can collect it. Um so

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that's that that's kind of been the guiding principle. Um, and another thing about this algae is it's it's kind of here today, gone tomorrow, and as soon as you think it's gone, then it proves you wrong and it's back again. So, um, you're constantly chasing it. Uh, it it

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it's generally coming up in these, you know, these cold fronts that we're seeing. Uh, and you know, the next day the wind shifts or it's covered up with sand and it's um, it's not as big of an issue. So sometimes mother nature even gets to it before you can even get to

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it. And if you do go and collect it all and and leave it in a dumpster and you have a a contractor that isn't as responsive as the neighbors would like, um you're getting complaints on the smelly dumpster of of algae that's right next to their their rental that you know

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that they require, you know. >> Okay. Thank you, Chad. Okay. >> I just want to add this too. Um, correct me if I'm wrong though, but isn't this algae signs of a healthy healthy ecosystem as well? >> Yeah, I mean it it you know, we we're

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very um we're in a very productive area. Estuaries are very productive. Um and that is a um important food source for the wildlife that uh lives along the shores. Um, and it is uh

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a natural state of affairs is where we're at with the river. Um, the storms, you know, the big storms kind of rip it off the bottom and the waves bring it in and it is going to keep happening. Um, so again, just getting some some guard rails or some guidance from this

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committee to give to council and direct staff on policy. >> Thank you. And again, this was brought up by the town manager to see if these two committees had any recommendations for changing what was already in place.

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So, I want to start down here and work all the way around the table. >> Would it be >> would it be advantageous to just read out what is already in place in the ordinance of rack line and raiki?

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>> Yes. Okay. It's uh section 14.6 beach raking and rack line policy. Uh subsection A. The use of box blades on the beach and dunes is prohibited in an emergency and/or storm event resulting in a buildup of sand against seaw walls. The

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use of blocks blade may be allowed with the approval of D where required and upon filing that approval with the town manager and meeting other requirements set by the town. So this is for property owners to do on their own property right where they own up to the mean high water

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line. Uh B under normal circumstances this is the existing language the raking of the rack line is prohibited. No mechanical or hand raking may take place seawward of the rack line or within 10 ft landward of the rack line. Provided,

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however, that hand raking of the rack line may be performed any time to amiliate hazardous conditions such as removal of sand castles or filling in of man-made holes on the beach. The town manager may approve the raking of the rack line conditioned on upon prior

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approval by the DP if it is determined that excessive accumulation of natural or other debris caused by extreme events including but not limited to red tide, red algae, bloom or red algae bloom or storm carried debris are present. Should

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such excessive accumulation be determined, the town manager may approve raking consistent with the author authorization given by DP. Any such raking which will result in the unreimbured expenditure of town funds in excess of currently budgeted funds shall

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first be approved by the town council. If this occurs during turtle season May 1st to October 31st, the raking must be in compliance with the specific conditions in subsection 14-6. Um so these are the really the

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regulations. It goes on more. So this is more for um private property owners and uh the resorts for example that are able to get a permit for raking. So I just wanted to

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read that to kind of give you what the baseline is in there. I think the I don't know the I don't know Dave why you were asked the question but I think from what I'm I'm seeing it's the count town

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manager is looking to see what you all think about what would constitute excessive raking when it should be occurred uh are there turtle conditions etc things like that to consider. He requested this because he received

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numerous complaints about the algae on the beach and I said, "Yeah, we we put it on an agenda and address it." And it specifically asked if we needed to change our algae raking policy on the

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beach. >> Yeah. So, I think this is very specific to algae accumulation and not necessarily raking in general. >> Right. Right. So the 8 Alton block is a little bit of a special case because you're you will get maybe around the shore

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um you know 1,000 ft that wide etc. Um but the complaints there were more driven towards the the inlet that formed during Ian and you know that algae is just kind of sitting in that in that inlet. It doesn't naturally.

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>> It Yeah, it may wash in and not necessarily >> wash out, >> right? It may or may not just kind of depends on the moon, depends on the tides, depends on the wind. It's all dynamic. So, um you know, they and I'll just, you know, there was a

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there's a general sentiment that, you know, we you know, it's it's smelly there. Um I personally have not observed it smelling much different from anywhere on the beach. whenever we did get a lot of complaints um there was a fish kill over in Lagona

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Channel um and the wind was blowing east and there was a bad sulfur smell and I did notice a spike during that time um that there was complaints. Now, you know, I'm I may be a little bit more tolerant than others of what uh you

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know, what is a a natural smell versus a unnatural smell or you know, a intolerable smell I should say. Um, but uh, you know, a mud flat, it smells like a mud flat. It's a, you know, it smells like it's it's

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supposed to smell. Um, and whether algae is in there or not, it's going to smell like a mud flat. >> Well, >> okay. So, again, can we start at this end and then come around and let everyone have a comment? In reference to the email that was sent out by Amy

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Baker, I the con part of the concern for this particular um on down in Carlos Point was the depression that was left down there and that that was the concern where it's coming in but not going out.

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Now, was that all because of the beach reclamation that we did and that's a settling pool that's there? Cuz I drove by it the other day and I see that. No, >> no. So what happened there is after Ian uh we have that lagoon of feature down south and that lagoon fills up with water and water finds at least path the resistance, right?

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>> So it scoured from that lagoon towards the bridge and it it was a huge depression from the lagoon all the way to um to the bridge. Uh with the emergency permitting, we were able to put in sand above the mean high water.

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>> Uh we were not able to put in any sand below mean high water. So, we filled in where we could um legally, but we had to leave that inlet. So, uh it's not a consequence of the renourishment. Um but it was left there

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unfilled um due to permitting and authorization limitations. >> Well, with that being said, it doesn't have a way to get out. So, the question being, should it be cleaned? Absolutely. Because it's only going to stank for the residents right there, right? >> It does go out. It goes in a high number. >> I'm just reading the email. I knew

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nothing about this. It goes out in the low tide. I mean, I see it every day and it's dry when it's low tide from my my lai. >> Okay. >> But the the fact that we had so much sarasm, even when the town came and got

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rid of it three weeks ago at Island Sand in that in that uh pond area, >> I mean, because it was blocking the water from going in and out and it was it we were I'm talking I walk through it. It's like a foot deep >> and then it's it's and it goes out

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a swear like 13 feet out. It's just awful. But anyway, so they they took it out, right? Look out in the water. The there's a whole bank of it out in the water still that's going to come in >> and dead. I mean, it's it's really I hope it isn't um tox it doesn't have any

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toxins in it. But anyway, the smell is atrocious and the last few days it's been so hot. Anyway, you kept your doors shut. But if I open them for a second, the smell coming in is awful. It's awful. >> Sam, do you have anything?

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>> Just briefly, I want to um uh Chad's assessment is correct. I live on Buccaneer Lagoon and we did have a problem there for a while. It's the smell is gone. Even when there were dead fish, the birds were still eating. So, I don't think there was poison in the

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water. There is a slight mucky smell at the very entrance to the canal. Other than that, it seems to have cleared up. >> Ted, >> no comment. >> John, >> no comment. Thank you for the opportunity.

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>> Okay. I was just I was just curious if anyone had a chance to look at the permit in the packet from uh that our town manager signed back in January of this year. If

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not, then maybe we can request that uh the town staff send it to all of us. It's very interesting. Um and uh it talks about um the best practices for our beach. Um and it's our field permit

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and conditions beach cleaning permit conditions for all other counties. Um the triple CL best management practices for protection of shorebirds and seabirds and chicks and nests and it was signed by our town manager. So my only

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suggestion is to just follow the permit that we already filed with the state. These are state conditions. Where where is that permit? >> I I don't remember seeing anything like that. >> I can get it. >> Okay, >> I can get it to the committee. Um it is posted with Amy Baker, but um

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>> Okay, Pat. >> Uh nothing at this time. Thank you. Well, well, I I went to a um class over in the at the college in April and it was talking about algo toxin and so so

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it is it is a sensitive issue. It's it's working towards Alzheimer's disease. It's making dolphins very sick with Alzheimer's. So that sarasm is not that toxin. It isn't. >> Yeah. So there's there's a couple

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different harmful algal blooms. So you have the harmful algal blooms like red tide um or the blue green algae where they're actually releasing a toxin. Um you have other algaal blooms where um like we had in Buccaneer Lagoon where we

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have a a bloom of algae that um you know while it's photosynthesizing perhaps at during the day and then it respires at night the numbers of the algae deplete the oxygen to such a level that it kills fish and that's why it's harmful not because it released any toxin but

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because it depleted uh oxygen levels and and killed the fish. Um so and then we have this this is macro algae. So um you know is it harmful? You know is it is there a fish kill happening because

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of it? Um I would say no. Um there's no toxin being released per se. However, when it does decompose, it does um you know emit a sulfur smell that is um unpleasant. And whenever it's it's a

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lot, it's very unpleasant. So, um that's that's the long and short of it. >> Yeah. Okay. >> I think also a concern is uh folks with compromised uh issues with their health. Uh not just the smell, but the breathing

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of that uh causing issues as well. >> Thank you, counselor. >> We're always looking for a balance between human wants and nature's needs. Um, and I think this is a kind of a good example where we need the rack line. We

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need the sargasm. It's floating algae. It's out there most of the time. It's not toxic and things like that. It's coming in. But the the fact of the matter is we're changing the environment so much. The Gulf is warmer. It's making a great environment where these algaes can grow because it is fairly healthy right now. So, it washes in a lot more

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that we're noticing different times of the year. So I think keeping things the way they are as far as what you know how it is written and and what we have for ordinances is the is the way to go. But for situations that humans have caused like down in the 8 8000 like it's a human caused

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>> area right? No, it's not. >> No, not humid. It's Ian caused. >> Ian caused. Okay. So, so well, I guess not human caused. So, with um things that are abnormal then I should say those can be like a case-byase basis and maybe there's some type of amendment we

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can do where then they reach out to Chad where he reaches out to D where he can get that special permission. >> Yeah. >> Um which is kind of already how it is. >> Yeah. I mean I would just say I would agree with you know the what Tom understood and the fact is that I live in islands and so just well you know

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putting that out there and that is not what we had before Ian we had sort of an enclosed area that it would we would have water gather when it was high tide and then it would be pretty much dry during when we did the >> and so now it's you know this inlet that

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has changed its position since the storm and we've gained a lot of sand already but we still have this in and out and in and out and when the you know the seaweed comes in and then some of it can go out and then more of it comes in and so it just has laid kind of dormant and so I think it's a you know it's a

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multi-pronged issue the fact that we have >> active water where we didn't have it before and then we also have this issue which has come up I think for the first time since the storm which is massive seaweed >> during beach renourishment was there anything done specifically in that area to negate it

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>> no we didn't um as you heard Chad say we didn't really qualify for sand there. So, we got it, you know, kind of up. We got the burm, but we didn't get anything else. >> Okay. I was curious if they did anything, but the burm is something. >> Okay. >> Okay. Um, I guess my thought on it is

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I have to echo uh what Rob said. You know, we're always trying to find a balance and the rack line, which is primarily seaweed, sargasm, whatever you want to call, is a food

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source for all of the shore birds. And also the the algae floating off off the shoreline is where all the baby sea turtles run to when they get in the water and that's kind of protects them

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from the everything else that wants to eat baby sea turtles. Um so it's and we've got a lot of it this year. I think it's because, you know, the governor has been an done an outstanding job the last four to five years, six years in

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cleaning up the Gulf, directing the the water down through the Everglades and not down through the Okachobee River and turning our turning our beaches brown with water. So I think it's some

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of the clearest water we've had in the last 20 years that I can remember and even going back further than that. So uh I think that's part of it bring this bringing this all in. I' I'd

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hate to see the town go through and clean everything up. It' be great for the tourists, bad for the environment, but there should be some discretion where if there is a situation where we need to clean some

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up, maybe maybe stagger it, uh, do whatever, but we can't make that call. That's why we have Chad here in in the position to try and find that balance and and work with the residents with an

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eye on the environment to try and find that balance. And so my personal opinion is I think the ordinance as written and in place and the direction given to the staff is working

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and it should be complaint driven and I don't see any need to change. That's my opinion. So >> the only thing that uh I I can add to this conversation was Chad had mentioned

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um we are basically one Long Island and I hate to see the northern end treated any different than the southern end. So I assume the regulations have been made uh to address uniformity.

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So, I'd like to make sure that uh you know the southern end um is treated fairly. So, the only caveat to that is our permit um specifically excludes the uh critical wildlife area.

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We're not allowed to rake algae in that area. Um and that is an area that tends to accumulate it uh more often lately than than not. Um but we are expressly prohibit it from raking in that area.

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Um, right now I'd say it's the worst of it is uh kind of in the uh 4,000 upper 4,000 5,000 block. Um, as you're coming, you know, from

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say, you know, especially in like the Lenarch Aber uh Aberdine uh area um just uh north of Flamingo, it's uh it's pretty thick over there. Um, you know, I I have gotten a complaint

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over there uh last was it last week or maybe two weeks ago. It was bad up north and um I mean I I cruised the beach. I don't know if it was on a on a Wednesday or whatever and it was pretty bad up north and I'm directing the tractor to come up there and and kind of help

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disperse it and thin it out. And then, you know, the very next day it was not bad at all. I mean, it was like, you know, very sparse and really nothing to rake, nothing to see here kind of thing. So, um, you're constantly chasing it. Um, and there that's that's another reason why you kind of want to meet a

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threshold because mobilization isn't in in an instant. And if it's not a certain threshold, you can mobilize and get resources and get dumpsters already and then, you know, it's it's it's in a different spot or maybe not even there at all. So,

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um that's another reason for that threshold and uh why we just we monitor it for a while before we just go and go out and collect it. Um but uh to answer your your your question, Mr. Bill, or to to give myself

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some cover whenever you're asking why am I ignoring your your beautiful beach? It's uh I'm not ignoring it. I'm just uh not allowed to go and collect it there. >> Right. And I totally agree with that, Chad. You guys are doing a health job. I support you from an environmental

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standpoint. But I also want to make one thing um clear. The CWA is not a year- round res u designation. Is it? >> There's no caveat in our permit that says for for any kind of seasonality. So

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I could ask that question to FD and FWC uh with regards to our um algo collection permit next chance I get. But >> you know that would be I think a good question to ask because you know from my perspective and from my understanding

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the CWA is not a 12-month designation. Yeah. >> So, in the periods that it is not, then I'd like to if we do have that problem, then I'd like to have it considered for cleanup. >> Understood. Understood. >> Thank you. Appreciate it.

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>> Okay. Um, >> I would just like to also refer back to the permit and it doesn't um specify uh time on on not uh cleaning or raking uh little sterile island critical

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wildlife area. It just simply says um excluding that area in the permit. >> So, >> well, that's fine. And when I get the copy of that uh permit or the document you're reading

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from, then um I'll probably have some comments on that also. But if it's not a designated CWA and those periods that it's not >> where it's not the critical wildlife area, then we like to have the same

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considerations as the rest of beach. Okay, going full circle and coming back in. Does anyone have any recommendations that they'd like to make? >> If if I may just uh Eric, if you can get the um photos, before we make a

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recommendation, I just want to see some of the uh photos. If you can uh kind of zoom in as much as you can to make that three wide across as big as possible. Uh Eric. Yep. So, uh this was earlier this year. Um,

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uh, I can't recall or can't quite make out, but it's probably, you know, 4,000 5,000 6,000 block area. So, if we can just scroll down, Eric, and kind of show. >> So, we have some thicker areas there. I would say, especially on the right, it looks like that's, you know, fairly

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>> uh large accumulation. Um, uh, keep on going, Eric, if we can. Um, so nothing there. Then maybe a little bit more here. So that looks like it's probably in front of Leonardo Arms. As we go down in front of that escarment

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and keep scrolling down and keep scrolling down. I was just measuring the escarment there. Uh, it's a little side job. Um, keep going down. Uh, so again, you know, it's it's accumulated there. And another another

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facet of this is is it's you know at low tide you know it'll be very wide and um depending on where the title cycle is at is dictates whether or not you can even collect it because at high tide it it may all be floating and and again drifting uh where mother nature wants

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it. So, um, we're also kind of limited in that regard with with tidal cycles. And this morning it was super high tide. If we wanted to get out there whenever public works is available to collect this algae, we would have a really hard time because it's all in the water. Um,

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keep on going, Eric, if we can. So, that kind of shows it that kind of shows kind of the worst of it. We did collect it on the um on the 8,000 block. Um, it was like February. Uh, we filled a few dumpsters and then also on the 6,000 block. So, if we can go to the next

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document, Eric, >> it's Bill. >> It's Bill. >> Can that be used as fertilizer or anything? >> Uh, they have some studies on it. I think they they've looked at that. Um, and I think they're like looking at like heavy metals and issues with maybe if

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it's used as fert used as fertilizer, uh, whether or not that's a an issue. So, you can see we this is three dumpsters. I will testify that that, you know, if you if you sucked in air through your nose in front of that dumpster, you got, you know, pretty hard slap of smell. Um,

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so I will agree that that smelled um, as natural as it may be, uh, pretty pretty strong. Um, and then if we can go to the next document, uh, Eric, and then we, so we have the 8,000 block here, I think is what this next showing is going to be.

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>> There we go. So, zoom in on that for me if you can. So, as we're going down towards the bridge, if we can just scroll down a little bit. Um, so here it's, you know, it's not too bad at at that may have been like finishing up or uh I'm not sure what

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side of the the collection that was, but it just kind of shows you kind of collects inside the pond there and then um it'll it'll collect along the banks, especially as you go towards the bridge, just depending on how heavy it is. So, um it's just whenever it sits there and

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sits there, it starts to decompose, becomes a little bit slippery, um attracts insects, which the birds love. Um so, again, so little bit of show and tell just to give y'all a little bit of uh

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uh food for thought. >> Well, let me ask a question, Chad. Do you feel the ordinance today gives you sufficient authority and perview to go out and complete the task.

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>> Yeah, this is more of a policy question. I mean, the ordinance, you know, if we have a public health and safety issue as a town, we can address it and get the authorization from the FDA and I feel like we're compliant with the ordinance in that regard. Um, and uh,

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again, it's it's how, you know, knee-jerk do we want to be? Do we want to go after it? You know, are we going to make this a a a 365 day uh year year- round job? Are we going to go after the worst of it? Do we do it if

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nobody's complaining? And I'm not hearing much about it, even though there is uh a bit of algae. Um you know, just just some some feedback for council. Um is what I'm looking for. >> Okay.

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So, anyone want to offer any opinion as far as changing anything? Going back to our town manager's question, >> I will offer an opinion, but it's not about changing anything. I seems like you have the policies and procedures in

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place to be able to be nimble and make some decisions as you go along. Not nimble. No, I mean right now the policy kind of sets that that large threshold and yeah, you know, do you know so do the committees feel like they wanted

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us to be a little bit more um flexible in that if and if we do see even if it doesn't meet that quantitative criteria of you know average on average a foot deep 30t wide for 1,000 ft you know that's not going

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to happen ever in that inlet area. I I shouldn't say ever, but it it doesn't happen even though it may be an issue. So, >> if y'all want to offer me a little bit more or advise counsel um to offer a little bit more discretion um for environmental staff to address issues um

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when they do occur. Um, again, that kind of puts the onus on me and kind of puts a little bit more highlight than um, >> so so just using your own words, if if we recommended to council that the they

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keep the ordinance as is, but add or at the discretion of the environmental director u, to remove as as he sees fit or or

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>> based on number of complaints based on complaints in the opinion >> I mean that's something in that neighborhood >> would that give you the the the nimleness you need

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>> well and I would say you know you brought up a couple of points Chad around is it a is it a hazard is it dangerous because it's it's slippery somebody could trip you can't really get to where you need to go or is it a health hazard. So, I think those are a couple of points that could be made

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that, you know, here's here's my discretion. I'm going to look at it and see how big of a negative impact it has and that will allow me to make a decision about whether we remove it or not if we have the resources to do so. >> Does that make sense?

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>> Yeah. And again, this is a policy document. It's not necessarily ordinance. So, Right. Yep. just um >> I would like to see them expand the policy so that he can make the educated decision and the common sense decision to allow places like this that are never going to meet that criteria.

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>> Yeah, I know. To meet that criteria of a thousand yards and thousand feet and things like that >> that I think you're a smart enough individual that you're not going to go there just to do it and ruin the environment. So I think they should give him a little more latitude on that as far as a consideration.

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I concur with that. >> I would support that. >> Anyone else? >> Again, I would just reiterate I would uh like the town to follow um the guidelines of the state uh to protect

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our wildlife. >> Okay. All right. Thank you everybody. And now we're going down to members items starting at this end of the table.

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>> Nothing for you today. >> I have one item. Um it might take about two minutes. Can I do I have permission to do a hand out of a front and back, please? >> Hand out. You can go. He's

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got a walking microphone. >> Bring this up. the other group. >> Sam Lurri, for the record, I've been working on this for about a year and a half and I seem to be solo. So, this is my group. Um, it's

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regarding fireworks. And by show hands, was anybody living here in July of 1990? Okay. Um, very few of you, I don't know if anybody heard it. You can Google it. It was on CNN. It was in USA Today. We

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had a fireworks explosion at Lover's Key of an entire um, tractor trailer. Trailer full of fireworks. It killed four people. I live on the south tip of the of the beach with the air conditioning on, the windows closed. It sounds like a bomb going off for 20

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minutes straight in in my house. Shook the whole neighborhood. Um it was one of the worst things that happened on the island, but some of you don't know about it cuz you weren't here. Um, if I announced today that I was going to

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on a certain day in time dump hundreds of pounds of debris and toxic waste in the Gulf, 200 yards off of Lynh Hall Park. I would lose my captain's license. I would be fined thousands of dollars and I would face jail time. Yet, we hire

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a barge twice a year and pay for this destruction. It's about the where and the how. Where is the sensitive wildlife area that surrounds our island and nearby waterways? How is that the fireworks display is

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launched from a barge that we pay to pollute our waters? What is the US Coast Guard, FWC, and Lee County Sheriff's stance on this twice a year pollution and disruption of wildlife? Do they just look the other

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way twice a year? There is never been a fine or enforcement of any of this. Birds vacate their nests. Other wildlife on land flee. Human hearing is damaged. We have a lot of regulations to enforce

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the environment and wildlife. Yet, this goes on twice a year. Does anyone know how this affects dolphin eolocation or turtle nesting? I certainly don't, but I I'm assuming that it has some effect on dolphin eolocation.

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So, what I handed out to you was um a couple emails that I sent to town hall or to town council um a year and a half ago and then again a year ago. Um if you look on the back of it, you're going to see a list of

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names. Some of your names are on it. They're good names. Um, I spoke at many during uh many council meetings on public comment on the subject of fireworks with no response from council other than fireworks are patriotic.

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Mayor Dan Allers did respond to my email saying they would explore options in the future. Uh, but that response was over a year ago. This July 4th, fireworks display is scheduled and paid for thanks to the whale and Mike and Don Miller for our 25th um, United States celebration.

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But we need to make changes going forward that are environmentally friendly, but also provide an exciting show. Maybe a laser or drone show or something original to start a new tradition to replace this disgrace with something better for July 4th and New

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Year's Eve. On your handout on the back is a list of prominent environmentalists. Uh if you know somebody on the list or if you are somebody on the list that's Chad, Chris, Dave, Rob should be on there. Jennifer's on that list. Um

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please start the discussion. Let's not just talk the talk. Let's walk the walk. Even if it's not totally popular, we need to bring up this topic, make some changes. Otherwise, this whole committee is just a bunch of hypocrites.

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We need to take some action. Thank you. Sam, let me um speak to that to a certain extent. When we discussed the fireworks at the budget meeting in September, I did bring up your concerns and asked about the cost and the feasibility of a drone. Um and I was

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given the it was pretty much more just as expensive if not more than what the fireworks were. So, I tried to address it. Um having seen a drone show recently, um I was quite impressed with it to be honest with you. I I I was skeptical when you first brought it to

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me because knowing that there had been an accident up in I believe Orlando at one of the theme parks where a child was hit with a drone that went out of uh control. But um I I think it's again to your point I think it's something we

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need to explore further and harder. So I agree with you. Thank you. >> Thank you John. There's 10,000 injuries every year from fireworks and an average of 10 deaths every year. And like John said, um the technology is getting

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better. People are transitioning, so we don't have to reinvent the wheel. We can just look around and maybe we can find something that's uh just as good. We want the people to come to the beach for those holidays. >> Uh Sam, I want to point out I'm not on the email list, by the way. So you

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please I've got a different email than everybody else. I'm a.gov. You weren't on You weren't on council yet. >> I thought this was just this year. >> No. >> Oh, okay. Apologize. Um I had brought this up as well and um in actually

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speaking with the Millers uh with Dawn specifically, uh she's such an asset to this island and she does so they both do so much uh in support of the island. I don't think that that's something that that um it

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would have to be fireworks and that it could be because I know for a fact that Don can't actually enjoy her own fireworks because her animals get so upset about it. So, if we can do a uh a drone or I I've seen the some of the

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drone shows now are just absolutely remarkable. I I would absolutely be in support of that of an alternate to fireworks. Sam, I can tell you we can put that on an agenda as an agenda item on the MURF committee, discuss it, and

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take it forward to the town council. >> Thank you, Dave. I was reluctant um I wanted to do this at our last joint meeting um with the captains, but there was no time. I was reluctant to bring this up today only because the Millers, they put a bunch of money and time in

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this. Don and Mike, you know, they're great for this community. I didn't want to, you know, I don't want to have anything to do with delaying or cancelling this Fourth of July, but going forward, I just wanted to bring it up now so that we can look at it in the

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future. >> I just want to say thank you to everybody for being here and having this joint session. I think it's been very helpful and I've appreciated hearing everybody's points of view. So, thank you. >> Ed, starting with you at the end. Anything?

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>> Okay, Jennifer. >> Yes. >> So, I handed out I don't know if I got I have enough packets for everyone, but I tried to hand out uh some photographs a few weekends ago. Uh, you know, this

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island's got a lot of construction going on and there are many uh responsible construction sites where they have the fencing around the construction site to uh prevent garbage and things blowing around. We are getting into hurricane

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season and we are getting into rainy season and unfortunately there was um I couldn't I was walking my dog very early in the morning. Uh we have a ramp on my street and um uh it's a public boat ramp

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on my street and I was picking up garbage that was blowing into our water and my hands were full and I was really really concerned and I thought oh maybe a raccoon got into a garbage can because that can happen. Later on that day, I

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was wanting to go and inspect to see if there was maybe someone who left and there was maybe garbage, you know, a garbage can tipped over. So, but what I ended up finding was a construction site that didn't have the correct had

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fencing, but it was all um basically uh falling down and a ton of garbage. The pictures don't even really show the gravity of what it was. And actually, I picked up a lot of it without walking onto the property. But the anything that

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flew into the street and into um our uh waterway, it's it's a it's really concerning me because um every piece of garbage ends up in our back bay is a problem. So, um I would like uh both

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committees because I know that the anchorage committee cares about our water uh backwater and our water quality. I know that MURF cares about it and I know the town cares about it. So, I guess what I'm asking is that the

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committees maybe put this on uh an an agenda item to discuss how we can uh help uh town council and uh the town staff with this. Thank you.

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>> Okay, >> Todd. >> Uh no, I have nothing. >> So, I just have one little show and tell this. We had to we had to chop a teeny bit of this of the sea grape area to get our pool equipment working. Okay. And so

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they took the sharpest stuff they had. This is from sea grapes. I just want you to see how dense this is and how the reason that the sea grapes survive the hurricane is because of this root. It's

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it's the strongest thing you ever you know you ever saw. And I know Rob explained to me something about the salt water. It's too dense, so the salt water can't get in, right? >> Filter. Like a filter. >> It filters it. Yeah. So, it's it's I just want you to know that's the reason this in my opinion that must be the

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reason that this is a protected uh species and it it it's it stood up on our side of our property with no damage because of the hurricane. So, that's it. It's really a messy, but >> thank you.

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>> You're welcome. >> Well, brownie, >> Sharon. So, um I I know we talked about it a little bit before. I I just again um not not just with council. I didn't mean to call you guys out to ask the mayor and stuff, but everybody who's

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listening, who's here, um start making calls to the sheriff to get more more people out here. Um the more calls, the more the more they're going to do it. Um, I also wanted to shout out to the uh marine mammal rescue team that helped help helped with the manatee rescue uh yesterday. Um, she is up on her way or

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she is at um Tampa Bay now. Hopefully we'll be okay, but if anybody was interested, there was a lot of bystanders and things like that. So, um, yeah, just really really got to start getting on that speed. >> Okay. >> And Rob, thanks for bringing it to to this group and to our attention. Um, I

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don't know that it has to be the mayor, but I know I think I will work with with the town manager. Uh, maybe Curtis can get involved. Maybe the new emergency services director will bring on board. U, maybe when we introduce him, we can all sit down and discuss it. John and I

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probably could be there as well. Uh, but thank you for bringing that forward and we'll get that addressed. >> No, thank you guys. And I don't mean just the mayor. I just know, you know, titles have power and you know, the mayor calls the sheriff. It, you know, pulls weight just like you guys with more than me. And you know what I mean? Thank you.

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>> The beauty of what what you're saying and what we're doing, if we can get people out here is that 37 years in law enforcement. I was a supervisor for many years. And when you get those phone calls, speed is speed, speed is well, guess what? In the neighborhood, it was the neighborhood people. We start

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knocking off these people that actually live down here, they'll spread the word faster. And then and the rentals are what they are. And like I said, and like you said that they basically they're just not that educated or they're actually very polite about it and they're very accommodating. Um but the residents are the ones that are the are

448
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the issues. So but that spreads like wildfire. So thanks. >> Thank you. >> Okay. Um I have just a couple of things. One, just a housekeeping issue. Um I'd like to remind all of the members on the

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committee Oh, Bill, before I go, would you like do you have anything? I'm good, but thanks for asking, Dave. >> Okay. Uh, just a little housekeeping issue. I would like to remind all the members on the MURF committee u that we take a vote

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every meeting to determine what we want to advise the town council on. And that is what either myself or the vice chair or

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whoever is designated goes forward and talks to the town council advising them as to the results of our last meeting. So I keep that please keep that in mind. U if you're going to go up it should be

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something we voted on. we've elected or we've told someone, "Yeah, you're going to go up in front of the town council and here's what we voted on." Secondly, again, I would like to echo um

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Chairperson King and thanking members of the Anchorage Committee for being here. I think it's really good to get the committees together on not every meeting but on a regular

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basis because they're such a diverse group but we're all concerned about the waterways and I think it it's a great sharing of information and crossthinking of

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everyone here. So I would strongly uh encourage us to do this you know going forward u when the need arises or even just to do it as a joint session

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and with that that's all I had. So um >> chair chair Dave and Chris excuse me but where can people get a copy of the Mary Toruson no wakeake map? Huh? >> Uh, I know that it is posted I believe

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that it is posted on the chambers water quality nonprofit site. >> So, uh, the chamber has a nonprofit dedicated to water quality and I believe Jackie Leis has posted it there >> and I have a couple other extra ones I

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can hand out if if somebody would like them. But for the people who aren't here to touch one physically, I believe that is where you can find it. >> We gave them away at the uh cruiser appreciation day. >> I brought a hundred maps and I had less than 30 at the end of the thing over,

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you know, and they went like hotcakes. So, so then yeah, you can keep that. I have I have I can make more. >> Thank you. Um, are >> these are these being handed out to the marinas?

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>> Uh, we have not handed any out to the marine marinas. Um, normally they are handing out their own maps to the voters. I believe >> or >> they are doing that, but I I don't believe it has the speed limits and things. This is a more detailed. This is

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probably something that >> can we put it on the Fort M Beach website so it just downloadable but at least the rental properties. Yeah, we can make that recommendation. We can talk. >> What what we're planning on doing is and uh Mary is is the one taking the lead on

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this, but we're she's working to develop an app >> so that you can put an app on your phone that will have that right on right on your phone. So, if you're renting, you say, "Here's an app. Click this in and

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it'll give you the map so that every renter >> has it has one just like a ways app on your phone. This will be a a backbay app that everyone can see. And you can also

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if if they can do it right, tie it in so that it flashes saying you're going too fast. >> It'll be geoloccated. Yeah. So, at any rate, that's that's coming down the line. But yes,

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this was kind of the first stone knives and bare skin attack on it, and we hope to get a little more 21st century going down the line. Okay, with that, Chad, do you have

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anything you'd like to update? Uh so we have the uh truck hall project starting uh end of this week uh on the 15th. Um hopefully if we get all of our documents signed and issue that notice to proceed. Um that is going to be first

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starting at the Dakota access. We'll also be using the Sterling access to uh minimize uh disturbance to a snowy clover nest that's in the area. So there'll be kind of more of a circular pattern rather than everything concentrated at that Dakota access

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that's uh near that snowy clover nest. Um that's going to be about a 30 to 45day uh project. Um and bring in some sand to uh reconstitute uh some elevation dune you know dunes in front

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of or seawward of the vegetation line as well as filling in some scour lowlying areas that we have out on the beach. Um, vegetation is going to be getting to Earth Balance and hopefully we'll be getting some plantings in uh soon. Um,

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we're going to get the FDM uh extension signed off on by council shortly and good to go with that. And um, yeah, I think that's all I have for now. >> Okay, Curtis.

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>> All righty. So, um the morning field operations team is in the process of um moving from our trailer into our um new permanent permanent office. It it is now going to be um underneath the harbor

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house um along the side adjacent to the uh or alongside the parking lot underneath the bridge now. So, um, we are, if anybody remembers where the old office was before Ian, it's going to be on the back side directly directly

473
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behind that office. So, um, we have, um, we have finished painting now. We're building out, uh, the office now. So, we are doing that as we speak right now. Um, so hopefully I would say about a week or two, we'll be we'll be per

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permanently moved in. Um so we are very very excited about that. Um as for the morning field itself um you know off season has set in. Um we're kind of averaging around

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um about 35 boats in the field right now. Um I'm looking to see that number increase this weekend. I have a group of about 12 vessels coming in. They're they're kind of coming in together. So, um we're happy we're happy to um to um

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uh um uh I'mma house them here for a little while. So, that'll that'll get our numbers up a little bit more. Um I have about roughly around 10 vessels in the front anchorage and about between 15 to 18 vessels in the back anchorage

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right now. Um and um we have been cleaning pendants and all the systems that have been um that that were that were occupied during during the busy season. Um we have gone through and we're cleaning the systems

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and everything like that. Um now but uh that's all I have right now. >> Okay. Thank you. Um, >> the next item on the agenda is our MURF award, which >> Oh, public comment. I'm sorry.

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>> We We have a public comment. Uh, anyone that would like to say something, >> please. >> First, >> uh, please state your name for the record. >> There's a microphone right there. >> My name is Craig Stevenson.

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Um, so I wanted to comment on the ferry and water taxi. So, as someone that's a waterman and is on the water all the time, um, the biggest issue is the no wake zone. Uh, we've pulled out two sea turtles. Uh, I've seen two manatees hit

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by boats. Um, the main issue is to your map. It's a slow, right? How fast is slow? >> No. Wake. >> No, that's not definition. That is not no wake. >> No wake is no wake. Slow is not no wake.

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So that needs to be clarified for your water taxi to the point that I forget John made it about if people are racing up and down to move people around. You mean that's going to create um to his point, you know, environmental hazard.

483
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>> All right. The other thing is you got to think about the displacement of the boat, right? You got a 20 ton boat that's 40t long diesel, right? They're not going to be able to see a sea turtle or a manatee. That's that boat is way

484
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too big to be going to South Island. You know what I mean? The the there's a lot of other details that I think you guys have missed um on kind of the parameters of like, you know, if a water taxi isn't going to make any money taking people from the mooring field in

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to you, I mean, that's not a business. So you you're kind of throwing the baby in with the bath water with the ferry and the and the taxi differentiator. It, you know, that's up to the operator. It should be free economics of like whoever's going to do it, whatever is going to make sense for their business.

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But from an environmental standpoint, the size of the boat really does matter, you know. I mean, and the displacement, you know, I've been in Fort Lauderdale. I've been in St. Augustine. I've been in Boston. I you know I've been on the top of a mass as the Boston fair's gone by

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and I'm going 20 feet in each direction. You know it's only 30 feet long but it depes like 30 tons. So those are kind of the things that I think the committee should really be focusing on are those idiosyncrasies and also going back to

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the enforcement that could be very very simple. You get a license to have a ferry or water taxi. It's same in my opinion, but if you get three violations from the Coast Guard, FWC, or the sheriff's license revoked, that's your enforcement.

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And then going back is like, we don't have any enforcement. We're out there every day. I have coffee and I see a boat speed by every single day. We've reported it. Nothing happens. Uh Boers under the influence. Oh, that's

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an issue, right? And if you're adding more commercial traffic, you know what I mean? That's, you know, that could be a captain with the captain's license, but if they're six sheets of the wind, that's going to cause an issue. So those are the some idiosyncrasies I think that

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people just haven't really thought about that I just wanted to bring up for the benefit of the of the island really is that I think you need an enforcement aspect and I think you need to really think about the size of the boat. >> Okay. >> And then also if are these fairies water

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taxes going to be able to use public docks? >> You know what I mean? That that's that's an issue because that's controlled by the city. If it's private, that's that's private. You know what happens if uh you know, someone takes out a piling cuz

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they're not very good at driving. That's city property. Yeah, they have insurance, but that causes all sorts of other problems. >> Okay. >> Uh the amount of trash. And this is the other thing is I think the ferry and water taxi is being singled out whereas the charter boats we currently have,

494
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they're breaking sound violations, they're breaking wake violations. You know what I mean? I I see it on a daily basis. Uh the salty sands people that drive the boats, they don't know wake. They they're playing slalom through the boring field. I see it on

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like all the time. So the regulation just needs to be enforced before you create more regulation for the water taxis. I think the mechanism should be like if you get three violations, your license is pulled. Simple.

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>> Okay. Thank you. Uh comment please. >> Sorry. Um, >> sorry. Going on to the algae to this young lady's point is you guys don't regulate the amount of fertilizer that's put on the bond uh any of the grass. >> You I mean that's all runoff and that's what's causing your algae problem.

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>> And I you can back me up on that. So, you know, oh more is better, you know. Well, no, more isn't better, especially into the canals because the canals don't have the water flow and that's all contributing. It has nothing to do with the estuary. That's naturally regulated.

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>> And thank you for the fireworks ordinance. My boat almost burned down from a fireworks in Jacksonville. >> Sir, sir, before you before you leave, please. Um, very good comments. Did Did you say Did I misunderstand? Did you say there's no definition of what a slow

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slow vessel was? >> That's correct. I I would refer you to FWC regulations where it is clear to state it what slow vessel operation is and how it's defined. >> Yeah, I've read it, sir. >> Okay. So, so you know the one thing >> it's ambiguous. So, what? All right. So,

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do you know the regulation? Let's hear it. >> It means that it means if your bow is elevated by any means, you're going too fast to be under slow regulations. >> Okay. So, that applies to a pontoon boat. >> That's that's not elevated but still

501
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weight. is exactly what the regulations is. I'm just saying what they are. I'm not saying if they're right or wrong. I'm saying that it does exist and there is a clear definition. >> I would disagree. That's a clear definition because I'd be going 30 knots with my >> Thank you. >> You know, I can get into the regulation

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if you want, but the point being is it's not >> You've had you've had your five five, you know, it's not a debate. It's not a debate. It's you >> I'm not debating. I'm just saying that this is an issue I think you guys should be aware of. >> Okay. >> Well, I think what we've clarified here

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is that we need to get more enforcement, which does not fall into our privy. You we need Lee County Sheriff's to step up a little more uh Coast Guard and um FWC for a lot of those a lot of those things. So, and and as you heard from this meeting, that was our number one

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problem. >> Okay. So, well, we pointed out >> Is there anyone else that would like to have public comment? Okay. Hearing none, I will close public comment. Sam has something to say. >> I just respond real quick. And I'd like to ask Curtis for it's my understanding

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that slow speed is the minimum you can go and still establish control of your vessel. And maybe Curtis has something better on that. >> That's idle speed. >> Okay. >> Yeah. Idle idle speed no wake zone is is clutch

506
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ahead. You put your engine in gear. You cannot go any faster than that. That is that is that is idle no wake. Um but slow speed is varied and I've talked to

507
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um um officer nice with uh with the LCSO. They have a hard time regulating the um the um um slow slow the slow slow speed um

508
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because the slow speed varies for for uh every single every single vessel a dinghy slow speed is different from a trwler slow speed a Nortex vessel slow speed is is different from a a sport fisher you know what I mean So there is

509
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not precise there there is not a precise definition that that will outline exactly what slow speed and exactly the the recommend or the the guidelines that the law enforcement can enforce it

510
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>> enforce it. They're having a very very hard time with with holding people accountable because it's not it's not identified. It's taught very clearly in captain school. And and I think it's the way that it's defined in captain's school. And the way that the words I I

511
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thought were when I read them is slow speed means no white water in front of your boat. And the reason it's stated that way is because like you're saying, every vessel displaces the water differently. Every motor pushes the boat differently. So slow speed it means and

512
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as is I've always learned it and as I teach others no white water in front of your boat and then the next one is idle going down and that's where you maintain control which can be different because under idle then you could have with wind

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and things like that but that's that's how I've always understood it and that's how I teach and that's that's how captain's school. >> Absolutely. Yes, you're not wrong. I was just stating the conversation that I had with with Mr. Nice. So, >> thank you. You're welcome.

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>> Reeling it back in again. Okay. Um the next item is our MURF award. And I had a name, but I'm going to table it in the interest of time until our next meeting.

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>> Is that okay? >> Yes, of course. >> Okay. Bill? >> Nope. I'm good. Thank Okay, then we will go our next meeting for MURF will be June 10th here at the town hall

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at 10:00 a.m. >> and ours is June 22nd at 900 a.m. here. >> And that brings us to the end of our agenda and >> to >> I will make a motion to adjurnn. >> I'll second. >> And there's a second. All those in favor

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say I. >> I. opposed. Motion carries. It is >> Thank you every >> It is 12:22 and we are adjourned the joint session.