7:00. We'll call the meeting in order. Pledge of allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice
for all. Open public meetings act statement. Pursuant to the yoga public meetings act, adequate notice of this meeting was forwarded to the official township newspaper, posted on the Bolton board and township website on January 5th, 2026. This meeting is being videotaped
and will be on channel 9. >> Roll call. >> Mr. Doyle >> here. A >> here >> marsh here >> here. It's official.
>> Ready. Take a motion to approve correspondence to reports. Make a motion to approve reports by a >> second. All those in favor? I >> I make a motion to approve the minutes from March 10th, 2026. >> Motion to approve. >> Second. >> All those in favor?
>> I can get a motion to approve the bill list. >> Motion to approve bill list. >> Second. >> Mr. Doyle. >> Yes. >> Mell. >> Yes. >> Mr. Keane. >> Yes. >> Mr. Marsh. >> Yes.
>> Mayor Berno. Yes. A motion to approve 2026 annual license, Jersey diner, new food applicant, Le Patrona renewal. >> Motion to approve the 2026 annual license. >> Second. All those in favor?
>> I made a motion to approve farm stand. >> Motion to approve the farm stand license. >> Second. >> All those in favor? I I >> get a motion to approve a raffle license Oasis Animal Shelter June 5th, 2026.
>> Motion to approve the raffle license. >> Second. >> All those in favor? >> I uh we do have a proclamation tonight. Deputy Mayor Marsh going to read it. It's for National Fallen Firefighters Memorial Weekend. Mike,
whereas the United States Congress and the President of the United States have designated the day of annual National Fallen Firefighters Memorial Service as a day to honor firefighters and emergency services personnel who have sacrificed their lives to save others by lowering the American flag on all federal buildings to have staff. And
whereas an average of 80 firefighters courageously make the ultimate sacrifice in the line of duty each year. Whereas firefighters and emergency service personnel play an essential role in the protection of lives and property in our local community. And whereas National Foreign Firefighters Memorial Service
marks the weekend of May 2nd and 3rd as the Memorial Weekend and May 4th, 2026 shall be observed as International Firefighters Day 2026. And whereas it is a major importance that we increase our efforts to reduce deaths, injuries, and property losses from fire. Therefore, I,
Michael Marsh, deputy mayor of the township of Franklin, now convey to all citizens of the town of and patriotic civic and educational organizations, the observance of the day of May 3rd, 2026 in recognition of the patriotic service and dedicated efforts of our fire and emergency service personnel by lowering
American flags and all buildings to half staff. I respectfully encourage these same organizations as well as the citizens of Franklin Township to remember all fire and emergency personnel have made the ultimate sacrifice in their service to their community and to pay respect to the
survivors of our fallen heroes by participating in bells across America for fallen firefighters. Toy Bell, pause for a moment of silence or read a special passage to honor the sacrifices of these public servants and their families during your group's gatherings
or meetings. I encourage appropriate services and ceremonies in which all of our citizens may participate to honor fire and emergency service personnel, past and present, who by their faithful and loyal devotion to duties have rendered invaluable services to our community and its citizens.
A witness thereof, I have here to set my hand and cause the seal township of Franklin to be fixed. >> Thank you, Mike. Making a motion to open the first public portional resolutions and/or ordinances below. >> Motion for first public portion. Second.
All in favor? >> I want you. >> See you one. I'll close. I'm just kidding. Dave, >> you want >> I love you too, Mr. Dave Marshall 67 New Road Mailing here.
Just a couple points. I know we got a lot of people that probably want to talk. I first want to make the mention about R64 2026, the resolution to bring the uh ban against the data centers, which I greatly appreciate. I'm very happy about that. And >> that was what was that Dave? I'm sorry. >> R 6426.
The ban on the data centers. >> Yes. >> And I'm very happy about that. I'm glad it's done. Uh, I've brought this up before in the past about abandoned businesses. I was told that can't happen, but obviously it can. Uh, and I'm glad you're following those
guidelines now. I'm sure it has nothing to do with a couple people running in the committee with that being for the >> absolutely nothing. >> Myself and Greg Smith for that spot bringing that as one of our main points, but in any case, it needs to be done. Should have been done a long time ago, and I appreciate a little bit about the affordable
housing. And the R 7226 states that this township committee has reviewed the mediation agreement and finds that its execution is in the best interest of this township and promotes the public health, safety, and welfare. I venture to disagree with that. When you look at the room that's here, I'm sure a lot of you people may not agree
with that statement. >> The agreement that you reached, at least from our standpoint coming in, it looks like an atrocity. It looks like it's going to destroy this town. things at least from the outside looks like they could have been done better. We don't see or hear of any plans in place for the infrastructure changes,
school changes that'll be needed, emergency service increases. Uh and these are all costs that'll fall on the burden of us the taxpayers either directly or indirectly to our taxes. I've also heard uh through some discussions with the different residents and I've spoken to spoken to a couple
hundred of them in the last three or four weeks about a centralized or at least a septic system that has been talked about coming into place at the end of lantern way right behind the Pennsylvania Avenue designated area of this that happens as well as the property that I've mentioned before that
uh have been sold by Mr. [ __ ] to the JPC group which also specializes in septic treatment systems. Uh they've got them all over the state. They've done them and that's one of their specialties. It just looks kind of odd like these may be getting ready or getting put in place to facilitate, you know, more mega developments or more things that are
going on. And again, we have a lot of people here, so I'm not going to keep it long. So, I appreciate your time and thank you. We can do better for the residents. Hey uh Jackie, do you want to explain how Nancy wants to answer the questions so everybody understands?
>> Absolutely. So sitting to my right is uh Nancy Holm who is our COA attorney. Uh she is going to address everyone's questions at the end of public session. So feel free to come up, ask your question. She's making a note and then she will respond when public session is
closed. That way she'll have the list of everybody's questions. Okay. >> Good evening. My name is Phil Ventinka. I'm a resident and taxpayer and I'm here tonight because the future of Franklin Township is on the line and the people in this room feel that they're being
sold out. I have read the text of tonight's resolutions and ordinances and the math simply does not add up. The taxpayers are being presented with the measure Excuse me.
>> Feel your pain, buddy. >> Yeah, >> with the massive permanent burden and it's being done under the cover of a state mandate. But adding over 4,100 homes does not doesn't just crush our wallets. It puts an unbearable permanent strain on the people who actually keep
this town running. It puts a severe strain on our brave police officers who work hard every single day to keep us safe as well as our neighboring communities with our shared service. It breaks the backs of our public works employees who are already working their butts off plowing through snowstorms,
breaking up the ice, and trying to maintain roads that are already falling apart. It completely overwhelms our hardworking municipal employees, and it floods the classrooms of our dedicated teachers. We cannot pass this massive burden onto the men and women women serving this
town and we cannot pass it on to our taxpayers. I have four specific questions for the members of this committee. According to the agenda, the three zoning ordinance for these properties are being introduced tonight with final adoption scheduled for April 30th.
However, resolution R7226 on tonight's agenda states, "The mayor and municipal clerk are hereby authorized and directed to execute the media the mediation agreement with ALR Franklin 1 Properties LLC, ALR Franklin
2 Properties LLC, and ALR Franklin 3 Properties LLC, all of which are shell companies. My question to the committee is this. If you vote yes on R 7226 tonight to execute this binding agreement, aren't you legally locking
this town into a framework for over 4,100 homes tonight, making the public's final hearing on zoning on April 30th completely meaningless? The second question is, page one of the mediation agreement states that the township filed a housing element and
fair share plan in June 2025. I would like to know exactly what compliance methods were detailed this original plan. I checked the website. I checked all the everything available to us and I did not see any attachment to that resolution.
Did that June 2025 plan rely entirely on handing 700 acres over to this 20 this 8020 inclusionary developer or did the plan actively include affordable municipal projects, rehabilitation programs, or nonprofit collaborations.
The same mediation agreement states that the court set the township's fourth round fair share obligation at a present need of 48 units and prospective need of 243 units. That is a total mandate of 291 units. But the
agreement then authorizes ALR1 for a total unit yield of 1535 units and 307 affordable units. ALR2 for a total unit yield of 582 units and 118 affordable
units and ALR3 for a total yield of 2,000 units and 400 affordable units. That's 825 affordable units for a quota of 291. Why is this community voluntarily exceeding the court ordered mandate by
over 500 units and handing a corporate developer the right to build over 3,200 market rate homes to get there? My my final question is ordinance 07,08 and 09 state that all three of these massive
tracks the maximum permitted residential density shall be six units per gross acre. That calculates out to a maximum cap of 4,117 homes being planned onto Prize Mill,
Oak, and Pennsylvania avenues. Before you vote execute the mediation agreement tonight under R7226, I would like to know, have comprehensive traffic, water, and sewer impact studies for a 4,100 unit expansion been completed and made available to the
public, or are you executing this binding agreement tonight before even knowing if Franklin's infrastructure can physically survive it? Thank you. There's one empty seat in the front. >> I would uh urge Harry Kennedy 1578 Fry
Mill face anyway. I would urge those people that were here, the first two candidates of the night, that if you are elected, and I certainly hope that one or both of you are, that you do something about this nontransparent
system, turn on the air conditioning when there are 300 people in the room. do something about the worst system in the world that doesn't allow the people sitting in the audience >> to hear what's going on. It's despicable
and disgusting and is done purposely not to be involved in transparency. I'd like to thank Deputy Mayor Marsh and I'd like to thank the firemen and the policemen that are here tonight. You absolutely are the backbone of Franklin Township
and God bless you for all you do. But but Zen, the new COA attorney here tonight reminds me of firemen. They hired a new attorney this year. They hired a new fire person. Thankfully, it's a female. There are two
females sitting at the front. That's very rare. They hired a new fire person, but it's a little late to hire a new fire person after the arsonist has burned down the damn town. Again,
when you engage in negotiations behind the scenes with the same people that have been here from the beginning on that hipper dipper deal, and the same people show up in the same group of
people are now involved in the LLC that are doing the development for the lowcost housing. Kainer, Gersburg, Wall, all three of them partners throughout the state of New Jersey in development
plans. And aren't they lucky to have a developer sitting up there on the township committee to help them right along with their plans because ladies and gentlemen, nobody benefits except the developers. Not the school system, not the fire companies, not the
taxpayers, not the residents, not the old, not the young. The people that benefit are the attorneys in their legal fees. And you know who those people are represented by in many cases, Jake? This will shock you. That same Parker McKay, does that name ring a bell, buddy?
Parker McKay represents those people. Yeah. And they're in the same group that's in the Builders League of South Jersey, the one that Timmy's a member of. And again, the one he works for for all those little housing developments. Isn't that nice? We're not going to put a solar field that brings nothing bad to
Fry Mill Road. We're going to spend $100,000 on something you never voted on in litigation to fight it, but now we're going to allow lowcost housing and god knows what else in terms of traffic and dehabilitation.
The question I have is this. Tara St. Angelo isn't here to defend herself. The person that negotiated at all times with Mr. Wall, Mr. Kainir, and Mr. Gersburg is my good friend, the administrator of
Franklin Township, Matthew Finley. I wonder if he'd like to give us all the emails that took place between those people. I wonder if he'd like to have all the secret meetings. I wonder if you'd like to have all the deals that were cut. And I wonder who else is going
to make a couple million dollars on this deal when all is said and done. I have a couple specific questions on the agenda. Mr. Mayor, why the special expenditure for an engineer to uh check the landfill on Pennsylvania Avenue? >> Oh, the the the present engineer didn't
have that anyone in his office to do that. >> So, you had to hire the old engineer to do it. >> So, the new engineer didn't have the qualifications to do the job. >> He had no one in his office. No, but he was somebody that was tied to the Democrats in Washington Township, so you hired them. Now, second question is, how
much did you spend on landfills last year? >> Did you spend $100,000? >> I don't think it was that high. >> I don't think so. But you budgeted 100,000 this year, didn't you? Isn't that right across the street from the proposed Pennsylvania Avenue development? Isn't Bad Wells the reason
that we have the Elk Township tobacco? Who knows what they'll discover for that 100,000? Nice expenditure. Second question, Mr. Mayor, why are you having the public hearing on April 30th instead of the normal meeting date? >> Because you have to have have it was
supposed to be done by that time. >> No, it's you have two week at least two weeks. You have to do it in terms of your agreement with the courts, >> but they they gave us a deadline. >> So, you're going to that's your deadline and you pass it on that night. >> And again, April 30th, everybody, that's the night they'll try to pass this
beautiful beautiful group of ordinances. Thank you very much, Township Committee, for all you've done to us. But no, I'm saying >> Good evening, Barbara Doy, Clearfield Avenue, Franklinville. >> Good evening. >> I have a couple of observations. First of all, the next public meeting should
be held in a larger venue. >> We have several schools need auditoriums that probably could accommodate three times as many people and they have air conditioning. >> What's that? If we vote it down tonight, there won't be a next one.
>> Okay, let's vote it down. But also, you might remember I addressed this group. >> Vote it down. Get out of here. >> I addressed this group a couple years ago about the warehouses or the cannabis situation. If there is such debate to be
had, put it on a vote. Have a public referendum. There are enough people that you can get the answers right there in black and white. Have a vote. While I have a captive audience, I am inviting everybody to attend a free
event Thursday night at the Franklin Township Community Center where Ben Franklin will be appearing, one of the founders of our country. So come out 6:30. There will be refreshments and it's free. >> What?
>> Somebody have a question. >> Barb, you know. >> Okay. Mar mayor. >> Okay. I also have a housekeeping question. I wrote a letter to you gentlemen March 13th.
I have yet to receive a reply. I don't I don't know honestly in all ignorance. I don't know what the system is when I address a physical letter to the township committee how it gets to you. Has anyone ever seen my letter? I picked
it up uh last week. >> Last week. Yes. >> Okay. One of the things that I requested in this letter was that there be a purchase of one of the special America 250th anniversary flags to be flown at
the community center and maybe having a special event on or about Flag Day this year. So, I hope that is under consideration. Thank you very much. >> Thank you. Thank you. Delore 600 Holly Drive. >> Creator Delore, if you can tilt it up
some. >> There you go. >> Delore. >> That's about as loud as I can get. >> There you go. >> Hopefully, it'll be on replay. >> It isn't. First, I'd like to remind the committee
what somebody on the um or the commissioner of the New Jersey Department of UN Fair said last year when the new regulations came out. And I'm paraphrasing. She said, "Rather than accept projects that may offer only a
few affordable housing units in exchange for many market rate units, the municipalities are put in the planning driver's seat when they have clear and datadriven numbers at hand. The affordable housing data that we have
is that the present need is only for 48 affordable housing units. And if you look over the next 10 years, it's only a total of 291. But the agreement that you're about to approve ahead of the public hearing in a
couple of weeks is for 4,100 units. If we only need less than 300, how did we end up in in in in this what do you call it? mediation agreement with 4,100.
4,100 is almost twothirds of the number of people that already live here. So out of that 4,100, it's not all affordable. And that's >> that's true. There's 800 affordable. The developers want eight market rate, but two affordable, which is not our number. It's what the state is is pushing.
>> Okay. The states only tell >> the state tells you you only need >> a total of 191 or 291. >> No, >> I don't think that's the right number. >> If you address that, >> if you put in 4,100 units, yes, you will
need more affordable housing. But if you don't put in 4,100 units, you only need what is it? 291. Now, we already as I go walk my dogs around the neighborhood, they see duplexes. We have apartments. We have mobile homes. There's other ways to get
affordable housing in town without going to a developer and building another 3,300 highv value houses. >> We didn't go to a developer, unfortunately. That's >> I don't, but your numbers are not the numbers that they're using. The state, unfortunately. I wish they would use your
>> Well, they're the numbers that came out of your agreement. They're in the material that was handed out for this meeting. Okay. And maybe I misread it, but I don't think so. I've heard the same numbers from others. 291 is how many you need.
Okay. Not 800. I >> I think you're looking at one round of the negotiations. >> That's the current round. >> We owe them. >> We owe them about 600. >> Get the correct numbers from your attorney. >> We'll get the numbers and explanation of the third round and fourth round obligations. So in any event, based on
what I'm reading in the material that you sent out, what I'm saying is rather than approve this agreement, you need to look at other ways to meet this affordable housing requirement. >> Okay. Thanks. Thank you. >> Thank you. Thank you.
>> Hi, my name is Stephanie Wall. I live on Pennsylvania. A Um, I'm very concerned about adding 2,000 houses on the street that's already very congested. I don't know if you've seen Pennsylvania AB after a baseball game. There's a lot of cars. A lot of cars that fly down the road at
least 65 m an hour daily. Where is all of the people going to go on such a small road that has no shoulders for any case of emergency? There's no sidewalks if kids decide they want to walk home. There's a lot of families that want to go for walks with their kids. and there is nowhere to go.
You're adding so many residents to an already small area and we don't want this change. I'm a resident. I don't want to see this change. The road can't handle this kind of volume. I don't think the school systems can handle this kind of volume. There's a lot of changes that have to undergo
this kind of thing. And I just disagree with it. I really hope you guys open your eyes because there's a lot of people in this room that seem like they don't agree with it either. So, I'm new at this. Give me some grace. But thanks for listening. >> You did fine. >> LOUD ENOUGH.
>> I don't need a microphone. >> I just want a few minutes to speak to everybody here. Can >> you say your name and where you're from? Claudia Delarm 600 Holly Drive been here almost a year and love it and
hate what's the community that is being thrown under the bus. All of you here, thank you for coming. Thank you for showing that you really care about community. I don't care
Republican, Democrat. I'm talking about Franklin and Franklinville as a community. What I see when I take my dogs out walking, what I see when I say what wave to the bus drivers with the kids and those kids and what's going
to happen to them with more people coming in. I care so much even in the short time that I've been here. So, thank you for showing up today. I don't know what's going to happen tonight. I do know
there's another meeting. I do know that I hope all of you manage to get even more people. I do hope that this is going to take place in a larger venue. I do hope that we get some media coverage because we didn't need this much
affordable housing. We don't need to be paying this kind of price for an inflated number of houses. Join in. Be a community. Don't care what people's political beliefs are. Believe in
Franklin and Franklinville. >> Thank you. Before the next speaker, I'll just remind all the speakers that your comments should be directed at the committee. Tom Lucas, can you hear me? >> Tom Lucas, >> speak on >> Tom Lucas from Frank uh from 602
proposed Avenue, Franklin. >> I've been a resident at the property which is adjacent to the Pennsylvania Avenue site my 30 years, over 30 years. Um, my concern is that first, why was I
not notified of some big change that was going to happen right adjacent to my house? And I find out after going to work at 5:00 and coming home at 5:00, I find out that my wife heard on Facebook
that there's a meeting time. You know, I I was always told that if you're within 200, you're going to get notified. I'm adjacent. to the rear to the rear side. But um so that's one question I have.
Um the other is more so I didn't I I don't know all the ordinance numbers and all that stuff, but I just had some general questions. um that currently I pay about $11,000 in taxes a year
and the um the zoning for this area that we've at least all around us had to abide by to build is a lot different zoning than six units per acre. So why you know we all
had to do that to come to this beautiful town and it's very rural in character and the property that it's on is a um fully wooded site with some wetlands on
it. But I mean I know they're people are allowed to develop on property that they own, but they should do it by the rules that everybody else has had to do and that I mean they're going to be I mean on on my property now I could get
another couple units if if that if that zoning would come to my lot which is very adjacent to it. Not that I would, but I could. And I might have had built two houses instead of the one because I could put two houses on. So I was never afforded
that chance. And now these guys are coming in and you will have to approve them to do those changes. So I mean really my questions are more to you than the developer why he's asking for it. I know why he's asking for it, but uh but
that currently wooded I think it's over 300 acres, you know. I mean I I have 15 deer some almost not every night but most
nights I I have 15 deer that come behind my house, eat some apples and leave. And I I have a big picture window in the back so I can see them. My grandkids can see them. We we feed them apples. That
that that land is going to be clearcut. All that habitat and and wildlife is going to be gone. And you know, I I just I mean that's not the Francoville I know. And I'm I hope you can see that is in the future as
well that it'll stay that way. Um, the other comments I have are uh that you know that the way I mean is there a plan that people could see? I mean, since I wasn't notified, I don't
even know what it looks like. But my general comment on this >> my general comment on that plan would be with that density that it's going to put a big strain on the um groundwater table
and this the the water quality in the septic systems. And the water from that lot is going to be taking the water from our properties at a higher rate that we're going to have to change our wells out to deeper wells.
>> So, you know, it's all it's all extra money for us that did it by the rules. And I I I don't think that's fair. Um the other is uh
is I'm I'm just concerned that you know we look for the police. I mean I I've seen a lot of these kinds of developments and they they look nice when they're built, but they end up not looking nice. They end up getting beat up and and a lot of crime and stuff like
that. And I and I feel bad for our art department and all those types of uh people that are involved. >> So I have some more but >> thank you sir. THANK YOU >> John W 1595 Paul. Okay. Uh I'm going to
be a little selfish here. I'm mostly concerned about the houses that are gone in between Grant and Washington. Okay, you put a couple 3,000 houses in there, mostly families, upwards of five people, two adults, two cars, people going to work, couple of kids, more cars, going
to school. Okay, how do you guys think these people are supposed to get on 55 to go to work? Okay, I'm going to tell you. They're going to come down Washington, hang a left on East, they're going to hang a right on Hall. Okay, they're going to come down Grant. They're going to hang a right on East. They're going to hang a left on Hall.
That's the road to go takes you on the 55. Grant's already a super highway. It's already a echo dragway. Whole is going to be a disaster. It's going to be a nightmare. If this goes through, I'm moving. I That's how serious I am. I
can't put up with this crap. You guys have got to figure out a way people to get on 55 without disrupting residential neighborhoods. Speed limit on that road is 40 mph. I was in here a few years ago trying to get it lowered. We got no traction on that at all. Okay. So, it
should be like 30 mph now. And it's got some traffic because we're a main route to 55. It's going to have 10, 20, 50 times more traffic. It's a very narrow road. If you widen it, people are just going to up their speed. There's a hill on it. There's a bend on it. This is a,
you know, Google map it when you get home and you tell me how people are going to get on 55 to get to work. >> Thank you. HI, I'M JEFF JORDANO, 871 Morningside Drive. Um, I moved here, bought here 25 years ago, bought a piece of, uh, land,
cut the trees down, cleared the road, dug the hole, and framed the house myself. Back then, I needed, I believe, two acres to build on, and I had to have my well and septic 100 ft apart. I don't know how anyone in their right
mind thinks we can jam 2200 houses off of Pennsylvania Avenue, let alone like some other people said, get on the deli from Pennsylvania at any time of day. It's a pain. Sorry, >> but I just it I don't understand if
you're from Frankville and I'm from Blackwood originally. I came down here, raised my family. I have two three kids, grew up in the country. If you're from Franklinville and you can approve this, then you don't belong in Franklinville. This is a country here. We don't want to
move in. Thank you. >> Hi. Uh Dave Turpoy, Dawn Drive. Um, I was with Bruce Manton building Lantern Way years back where Lantern Way sits
20 ft in on Pennsylvania Avenue towards the proposed site. Surveyors sat there week after week making sure he didn't dig anymore. We were told it's all wetlands. And we
were told tree frogs. You can't knock down the trees when you got protected tree frogs. >> Right there. >> I stood right there when the man said Bruce back the stuff up. Move to
Florida. I hope nobody shoots at me. But that's the way it was back then. Can they change wetlands? Does it dry up? And they say, "Oh, it's stri. We can build." Now, is wetlands wetlands? >> The state apparently depends what party you're from, unfortunately.
>> And we can't fight them. >> We can fight them, but it's a state regulated. It's like sewer, septic. It's state regulated. >> Are you guys fighting for us? >> Are you guys fighting for us, Mark? Two months ago,
I don't even want to use the word, but you looked me in the eye and you said you have nothing to worry about. Imagine how long it's going to take for them to develop Pennsylvania and just to get it approved to develop. I'm not I'm not don't mean to put a spotlight on you,
but don't steer me the wrong way. >> Two months ago, you told me four other people back there. I wouldn't even worry about it. Do you know how many years it's going to take to get that approved? >> Here we are two months later.
I'm trying to hold my temper down. >> We're here because they're suing us. >> What you say to people? >> We're here because they're suing us. I like to address it. >> They're suing you. This is our property. They're suing the property. They're suing you. This is my town. They're suing you. This
>> They can't sue us. This is our town. >> They >> They can't take our property from us. So then >> agree with the 290 whatever that gentleman said agree with that how we get 4,100 houses >> I don't agree with any
>> there there has been no approval of any agreement >> yeah but inch by inch >> like I was told 2 months ago you don't even have to worry about you know how many years it's going to take >> here we are everybody's blood pressure is up two months later who's telling the
truth and who's lying why do we have to have closed door meetings >> okay Why do we have to have close door? >> Anything that's litigated is closed door. >> Wow. >> Would you want us to talk about our
upcoming case in the public so that the people that are suing us? You're not talking the dumbest thing in the world. You're not talking about a murder trial here. You're talking about our property. >> We're fighting for you and you're attacking us. >> I'll tell you what, Tim. How about if we
bring the section 8 houses? >> Yeah. >> Hey Dave. Dave. Dave. I moved. I live right near a bud. I moved. I live on where the dead. >> I don't live there. I live right on Grand. >> That's where the hos at.
>> Okay. Good evening. Think of another argument. Just wanted to say in case anyone didn't notice, it is unusually hot. >> Extremely hot. >> He's got to get close to the mic. >> Is it on? I don't think. Okay.
>> I just um want to ask a question. One of the three properties being proposed for this COA settlement is the Fryill Road property. That's the property that you farm. Correct, Mr. Doyle? >> Yes. So considering that the person you would be settling with would become your
landlord, isn't this something where you would have a conflict of interest and should you refuse yourself from the entire process? >> I don't plan on settling with anybody. >> It shouldn't be involved even in the discussions. >> I mean, that's a conflict of interest because here's how I see it, and I could
be wrong, but I've been here before and I haven't been wrong about some of the things I've said. I You don't look worried about this. And that tells me that you're not losing anything in this deal. Now, I would be concerned if I farmed a huge plot of ground and had a
center pivot system put together for that ground and it was an integral part of my business and it was possibly going to be, you know, sold out from underneath me. I would be concerned, but you don't seem concerned, which tells me that there's more to this story than is being presented. >> What's going on tonight is more
important than >> Yeah. I'm I'm going to go ahead and keep talking. again, you shouldn't be involved because you clearly have a conflict of interest and we will perhaps challenge any decision made to the extent you were involved in it. >> Now, separate from that,
some time ago, I'm going to say it was at least a year, I don't remember exactly, there was a company that had proposed putting a solar project on the prize mill property and it went before the zoning board for an interpretation and there was a split vote. I believe it
was I don't remember the exact exact numbers but it was declined by one vote and that one vote being Andy Hamill who happens to be your right-hand man a 20-year employee of All-American. He should have been on the zoning board or
yeah it was owning board. He shouldn't have been on there. He should have been the one to be able to make the call to prevent a solar farm from coming onto that property. And yet you went to great lengths to make sure that solar farm didn't get there. When the company appealed and won before Judge Telsey,
somehow the zoning board and Franklin Township uh appealed it to the appellet court without any decision having been taken or prior to any decision having been taken by either board. You say, "How's that possible? How does an attorney go and file an appeal without the authorization from their clients?"
But it happened because that was important to you. It was important that that not become a solar farm so that you could continue farming it. My concern is that you're not that concerned this time because the person who's getting this settlement, which I assume you guys have already agreed to because settlement
agreements don't generally come before the governing body to approve unless they've already been verbally approved in the settlement conference or whatever mediation took place. So the the point is you will soon be able
to continue farming that property uninterrupted if that person feels that you have perhaps done them a favor. And that's the concern. That's a real concern. My other concern because I think we all know that uh 4,000 houses it's town houses mostly. I think 80% or
more of them are town houses. There's not a huge demand for town houses in Franklin Township. So, I think we can all agree that the number 4,000 is is there to to scare people, and it does scare people because it could become a possibility. But I suspect that Oak
Avenue will be looked at again, and you guys will come back and be like, "Hey, look, we saved this project from Oak Avenue. You know, we're going to put a warehouse there instead or an AI data center there instead. Look at us. Aren't we great? And look, we saved this property on Fry Mill Road. It's still a
farm. Isn't everyone proud of us? Look, we did great things and you'll just jam more properties into Pennsylvania Avenue cuz 6 units per acre is not high density. It's high for Franklin, but it's not high density if they're going to put a sewage treatment plant there. You know, the more the marrier. I So,
I'm just saying Tim, you shouldn't be involved. You should know better. Everyone else should be able to recognize pretty clearly what's actually going on here. Thank you. Hi. Um, Cassidy Lawson, 1081, Pennsylvania. ABS. Um, I just want to backbone on a lot of things that
everybody's bringing up in here. You know, obviously, uh, I I've waited years to live in Franklinville. I grew up here. This is my home. And I could have bought a house years ago. I worked my butt off to be able to afford a nice property in
Franklinville. And honestly, it's my dream home. I'm I'm so excited. I I I was so excited to live somewhere where there's a good school system for my my future children to grow up in, you know, a nice town, a small town vibe, a good community. And I just feel like it's
being ripped away from me before my eyes. And a lot of I feel like a lot of things have happened really fast without people being able to make the decisions as a town basically. Um but regardless I I I just want to make the points as well of this, you know, how are our school
systems handling all of these properties? How are our roads going to handle this? our first responders. I mean, it it's just absolutely ridiculous that, you know, at the end of the day, we're going to be the ones that are paying for it, not only financially, but our my, you know, the this is the future
of Franklinville. I I am the future of Franklinville here. And I feel like my future has been completely altered. And now I have to worry for my future children because, you know, what what kind of school system are we going to have if you know all these kids come? I
I I can't even formulate my thoughts right now. I just want to say thank everybody for showing up because this is ridiculous and something needs to be done and if we can somehow as a community stop what's going and it's there's a lot of talk too about it being
a a pro people having a problem with a affordable housing and it's it's not even that I don't I want people to be able to come and live and afford to live in Franklinville. It's not really about that. It's about the amount of houses that are planned to put in and that's the only reason that the number is so
high is to line the pockets of someone else and that's it. >> Hello. Can you hear me? >> Yeah. >> I'm Lori Goldmith, 206 Cherry Tree Court in Franklinville. I've been a lifelong resident of Franklinville. And I want to
go on the record that I'm against all of this for all of the reasons that everyone has been saying. The the water table, the septic, too many people, the schools. I went to school in the morning. I'd go, you know, 7:30 to 12 at Deli and then the afternoon, you know,
the afternoon group came in. We may go to back to that if we get all these kids back here again, which we can't handle. It was awful. So, I'm wondering, Mike, I've known you most of my life. What are your thoughts on this? Being a formeral former uh police officer here and
committee member, are you willing to just give up and say yes? >> Well, >> I don't know if you want to answer this. >> I listen, I'm I have no problem. I'm transparent. >> All right. >> As as a former police, it's going to be a huge impact on the police department. Huge. Because of the, you know, the volume of people coming in, and I'm not
for that. Of course not. Um the schools is going to crush our schools. We're going to have to add another high school, two elementary schools possibly. So, right now, I mean, I'm I paid almost 30 on that property. >> I'm going Listen, I'm going I'm It's
It's a long process and it's an ugly process and there's not one person on this committee that wants it. Remember, someone came up here. It's not about politics. It's about polit and I think what's his name? Phil, I can't pronounce your last name. He ran as a Democrat.
His party is the one that's crushing us. >> This is >> the Democrats control the state. We don't want this. It's being forced down all throats. Do you think we want this? No. >> No. >> It's a law. Governor Murphy made it a
law. Chris Christie halted it. He made a law so it couldn't be halted. So I would dig my ears in the sand and fight Trenton. That's what I want to do. >> Fight Trenton. >> I want to fight. >> Fight Trenton. Everybody, do we have to go to trains and fight it? >> Yeah, I want to offshore wind for 3
years and this is just another fight in my book. >> It's a fight and I'm I'm willing to dig my holes in a fight for Franklin Township. >> Thank you, Mike. Anyone else ready to fight, too? >> Committee can't vote until public comment is over. That's the point. So, once public comment is over, we'll hear
from co- council and then the committee will be able to vote. We can't do that and prejudge until the resolution. >> I got it. I'd like to answer too. >> I I mean, and I first of all, all these people coming out is great >> because it's for the wrong reason,
>> unfortunately. But it's great that people are involved in learning. There's no one I know in Frankville that's for them. Nobody. I'm a farmer. I preserved hundreds of acres. I hate developments. I built two houses in my life and lived in them both. You know, I
get it. I agree with the water, the sewer, the traffic, the schools, the police, the fire, everything. The problem is the state controls that stuff and they're ramming it down our throat and we're fighting it and we're going to fight it as long as we can, but at some
point it could potentially bankrupt us. I don't mean tomorrow. >> Supreme Court. >> I I don't disagree with you, but my point is we're we're not fighting you guys. We're fighting for you guys. But the problem is we're fighting a giant. >> We're fighting for you. >> Yes, we are. We're fighting a giant
back deal. >> There's no back door deals. >> Two houses getting built on one section of land. >> No more talking. You can't talk to come up to the mic, sir. You have to come up to the mic. You want to talk? >> There are many big towns with a lot of money in them that have fought this and have lost
>> and lost. >> They all are losing. And I've been talking to people and they're they're like, "Our best bet is to, you know, kick it down the road or make sure that they don't develop all of their their profit houses first. >> Do the the low income so we don't get
screwed that way." >> And that's something that should be in all% correct that you're you're doing right now, too. >> But I know it's a hard fight and we have to fight it in the polls. If we can kick it to the next governor election, that's where we have to fight.
>> But I think we're here. >> And I just like to add, I'm sorry, I I couldn't address you when you were up. Your name is Dave, correct, sir? >> We, as Mike said, we are all fighting, but we also have to we have to realize that fighting comes with a cost.
>> I said, we're not we're not going to debate back and forth. Yeah, I'm sorry. Get it, sir. >> It's wetland. >> Change it. You don't think the state >> You don't think the state can change it? >> Democrats make them disappear.
>> You can you can check on your >> James Vesitus 1081 Pennsylvania Avenue. Uh I grew up in a town that was ruined by these developers. Winsow Township. We, you know, if you drive around, you see it happening everywhere. Vineland, Williamstown, all these towns have been
ruined by Ryan Holmes. Is Ryan Holmes going to be the developer that ruins our town? >> Who knows? Who knows? >> Who else builds the mega developments in New Jersey? >> I can name five off the top of my head. >> Drive around. It's all Ryan homes around here. That's all we see. >> Alanian, the threetory plywood ship
boxes. We don't want them in our town. >> I agree. >> Now, you guys brought up the that town's going to file a lawsuit against us. Is it cheaper to pay the lawsuit and settle with the state than it is to to raise the taxes and screw the whole town over? that information is going to come out, which I wish I could comment on now, but
>> cuz I know a lot of residents would be much happier paying for the fines against the state than allowing our town to be ruined. >> I PROMISE. >> HI, I'm Stephanie West. um 94 Roosevelt Avenue. Uh I grew I grew up in this town
so I was eight. Moved to the Lakes was Timmy Doyle's neighbor. Um and uh I've been in the township for 20 years. Uh I moved to Franklin Township from Monroe Township because of the overdevelopment. Um I was the last graduating class of
the old high school of Williamstown before it became an atrocity. Um I don't want to see that here. I am a former public New Jersey auditor for municipalities, fire districts, and school districts. I understand the Mount Laurel ruling, and I'd love to provide
any assistance to the board that I can in advisement. I have a couple questions that would like to be answered um at the end of the session. Have you looked to fulfill our township obligations under the Mount Laura ruling with a partnership with Operation Safe Haven? you can utilize a
partnership with Operation Safe Haven um and add more mobile units in that area to fulfill the obligation of Mount Laurel ruling. Have you considered the options outside of inclusionary housing to include special needs or senior housing to eliminate the burden associated with the increased school
budgets? We could actually bring in income if we actually have nursing homes because we'll actually get more Medicaid funding for our EMS and fire districts. Have you considered rehabilitating uh other houses in the municipality that are owned by the by the municipality and
segregate them as low income that counts towards your number? >> Have I your last question? >> Have you considered rehabilitating municipallyowned properties to a lowinccome designation ones they own? Right. Have you gotten an environmental
impact study on the ramifications of the property that are about to be built? Have you formed a coalition with other counts who are fighting this now? And when can we make a run on Trenton to let Governor Cheryl know how we feel? >> NOVEMBER.
>> Good job. >> Hi, Courtney Zatitus, 1128 Sweetsboro Road. I also am coming to you as a lifelong community member and a teacher within our public school system. And right now, despite all of the negative things I'm hearing, I want to know about
the children because at this point, I cannot foresee an increase in student enrollment while still providing a quality education. So, what is the plan? I heard two more
elementary schools needed, but we couldn't even get a preschool program. So, where is this money going to come from? >> Exactly. That's my question. That's our question. >> Question for your >> We asked the state these questions. They told us that to basically shut up.
>> So what would the next step be? >> Vote the Democrats out of Trenton and we get rid of this. >> There's your answer. >> Phil. Phil, you already have five minutes. >> He said he said my name and he called other people in this room by name and they were allowed to speak. He said my
name. I'm going to speak. Michael Mark, I respect you. I respect a fellow law enforcement officer, but you calling my name and pointing me out. >> Yeah. >> Half these people here wouldn't even know this was happening. It wasn't for me. >> Okay. >> Behind closed doors. All right. Nobody knew about it unless they go to the website and read the agenda. They would
have no idea this was happening. >> Okay. So, say I'm the reason. >> No, that's what you're said. Your party. >> My party. >> Your party. There's the reason why we're in this mess. >> You're saying I'm here. I live in. Do >> you agree with me? >> I'm not from I'm not from Trenton. I live in Franklin Township. I raised five kids here. I'm a veteran. I'm a law
enforcement officer and I respect that and I'm a coach. Okay. Okay. >> I have nothing to do with threaten. I have nothing to do anything. He said and for you to deflect it onto me, >> I said your party, your Democratic party is killing the state. >> Do you disagree with me?
>> Governor that passed in 40 years. >> No, he didn't. >> All right. Second of all, second of all, all the towns have had to do for the last 40 years because it was 40 years ago that >> his 50 actually 50 >> 50 >> and we've been fighting it for 50 years. >> 50 years. All you had to do is come up
with an alternative plan and you had 50 years to do it. And tonight you didn't do it. You were about to settle. And I guarantee now because all the people that are here because I'm fighting for this township and you are about to agree on a settlement that there's no doubt in my mind you're gonna right now say we disagree with it because all the people
that are here because I spoke up and you're going to put it on me and deflect it on me is ridiculous. >> Wrong wrong. >> Gentlemen, I live on proposed avenue. Is your name? >> 378. >> Where you live? >> 378. Your
>> name? >> Paul Burgess. >> I moved here in 2019. Bought it because it reminded me of where I came from. Dirt. So close you are to your roots that this is my home now. I retired here. And now the
property behind me. I got people walking all over my property. What are you doing here? You want to sell your property? No, I don't. We need access back there. I don't give a [ __ ] what you need. get off my property. >> That's wrong. >> You guys should build a high school. How
much do you pay for each school to go somewhere else? Other school. >> Do you have a high school, a middle school? >> You should have built that infrastructure before he's talking about section 8 housing. >> We have a high school. >> We're saying we're going to need
additional schooling if all these houses go. We have a high school and a middle school. >> Where's it now? >> The high school regional. >> Yes. >> That's up for Bill. Yes, it is. >> I understand that's a consortium of different counties. It's a regional regional school in Franklin Township for
Franklin Township residents. >> My point is this. You don't want to turn this into Patterson Camden. I came from up there. >> You're preaching to the choir. >> I don't want that. I don't want to look out my back door and see all that. >> I agree. >> Something constructive with it. Make it a part for all these people here. Make
it a part. >> We're not allowed to. >> There is. >> We're not allowed to. >> They don't own home own. We do. The people do. >> Let's all take a bus to Trenton and this speak to them. Let them hear us speak. Let's take a bus to Trenton.
>> Listen, I've lived here my whole life. >> I've been here my whole life. >> I come down south. I live >> I'm moving down south if this gets passed. >> Now, this is my home. I don't want to see it. >> I My kids are here. My grandkids are going to be here. I'm not leaving.
>> If they let this gets passed, >> expect their grandkids go up here. We can fight Trent. >> Oh, yeah. >> Pick up a flashlight from >> Good luck with that, man. I love I I'll be the first person to sign your petition, but we have to throw them in the in the ballots in November. >> No, we can start right now today.
>> No, I wish we I wish we could. Trust me. >> Here. I I'm right there with I'll drive the bus. >> Start here. >> I'll drive the bus. >> You're in the military. >> I'll drive there. >> Let's go. Yep. The best fight is the one worth fighting for.
>> I'm with you. >> This gentlemen, you represent each and every one of us. >> That's right. >> Stand up with us. >> I'm here. >> You are. >> I'm with you. >> Nobody else will say anything. >> Oh, they're here. They're they're behind me. >> You of all people know what it's like to hold dirt in your hand. >> I know all about it. I don't I don't
like houses. >> That's a lie. >> I moved from Williamstown because it was overdeveloped. But I move down to the rest of my life. Whatever. No, you can't. >> I'm a bridge pain. I get every day. >> I'll deny how much longer I won't be able to do that,
>> but I do want to die where I'm at. >> Me, too. >> I can't die. >> Thank you. >> We have a very long question. >> Obvious. >> Hi. >> Hello.
>> My name is Justine. I live on Cedar Avenue. >> Do you want your last name? Scott. >> Uh, so first off, I >> You just have to You have to talk closer. There you go. >> So, first off, I've lived in Univista Township. I've lived in Williamstown.
I've lived in Franklinville. I've lived in Philadelphia. I bought my first home here in Franklinville about a year and a half ago. I really wanted to live here for my son so he could grow up similarly to how I did. And I I don't have a
problem with affordable housing personally, but like uh somebody had asked a question before kind of the the math of it all and I think you guys answered the question, but the math of it all from what I read on the agenda doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me again when like it's about a little
under 300 that are for affordable housing. >> It's n it's over 900. >> It's 900. >> Over 900. >> It's multiple rounds. It is very >> people are looking at individual rounds but overall between the four rounds it's over 900. >> Okay. So like 900 total but then again
then we're building over 4,000 >> times five >> for every home we build they have to build five oh five >> eight oh never mind >> well it's an 8 to2 ratio. >> Yeah. 8 to2. So every two low-inccome house the state not us are requiring they allowed to build eight houses.
>> Not us market rate houses >> with favorable zoning. >> Yes. because that's the only way that the builders will build the affordable homes is to make profit on the other ones. This isn't a deal that we came up with. This is talking about backroom deals. This is backroom deals that developers are making with lobbyists in
the state. >> And I can totally understand that lobbyists are definitely a problem in politics all over, Democrat, Republican, everybody. Um, but I do have to say I do appreciate the questions. Uh, I forgot her name. I think it was Colleen. Um,
but the one gentle lady that had all the questions um that she wanted answered, I really found that valuable because they were questions that I thought of but could not quite articulate like whether to consider other options besides just
this. Um, again, I would like to stay in Franklinville, but I I feel like most of these people do. I'm worried about being taxed out, bought out. Um, I mean, I have people calling me to buy my house all the time, and I'm just like, "No, I
I love my house. I love where I live." Um, and again, the environmental impacts, that's something that very much concerns me. I mean, we see deer all the time in our area, and that's already from the overdevelopment in surrounding areas.
Um, and it's very frightening driving at night, frankly. than the increased traffic, the need for multiple schools to be built. It just it's a lot. And and I do understand there is a system. There's a whole government system and it has to come from the top and then kind
of trickles down. Um but I do hope that this committee is truly committed to fighting for us because from what I'm hearing from the people here and what I'm hearing online, on Facebook, everything, it doesn't feel that way to
everybody else. Well, as Mike said, um it is political >> and no one's going to tell me what my intentions were to vote tonight. So, yeah, we're going to vote the way I want to vote. >> But I guess on a more positive note, if I was reading the agenda correctly, I
did see that there was supposedly like a prohibition or a ban for data centers in this area. >> We're sending something into >> Okay. and and that I do appreciate because again we see what's happening in Vineland with their noise and the pollution and everything that they're trying to do um and all the other areas
that are fighting against it. And I love Franklin though partly because of the farmland like all the farms that I can pass by and all that and that's prime real estate for data centers. Um so again I do appreciate that that is a concern that you guys have. Um, and I
just hope that this meeting that you guys really consider what we're all saying and hopefully either less houses can be built or it can be repurposed to something else. Just something that won't impact us and force a lot of us out of the town that we love so much.
>> I agree. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Hi, Mindy Curran, 71 Avenue. mouth them. Um, I just I'm responding to I'm responding to some of the political comments and I just wanted
to give some clarity of the history just um this started in Mount Laurel, I believe in 1975. Um, there was a mayor named Bill Haynes and his quote was, "If you people can't
afford to live in our town, then you'll just have to leave." What party was he in? What party do you think supported Jim Crow? I'm not making this up. And so, you keep saying, "What's the
frowny face?" cuz we're talking about affordable housing and you're talking about Jim Crow. >> Yeah. It all roots to that. It's a racist foundation. >> So you're for affordable housing then? >> What? >> So So you're you're on you're for affordable housing. I just want to clarify. >> No, no, no.
>> I am I am not against affordable housing in moderation. >> I I don't think any of us are either in >> moderation. But this isn't about that. This is about the your party and your party and you guys. No. Look in the
mirror at your own history. >> I wasn't alive then, so that's not my history. >> Well, I was. And I'll tell you, I didn't know you anything. But >> the point is, you keep wanting to play this party crap, but not be political.
And you can't do it. You have to be honest with what the root of this was. And yeah, it might have been. It was a Democratic governor that was part of all that and this is a tends to be a
democratic state and we benefit a lot from that. >> However, >> go ahead. I'm sorry. >> However, >> however, just listening to Go ahead. Talking about Keep talking about how Democrats are doing so well.
>> Emergency. >> Keep going. just calm down with the this party and that party because history. >> It's disgusting and >> okay. >> Okay. What? >> I don't think that anybody was here to
talk about the history of >> Come on. We're talking about who's who's forcing this. It's Democratic. >> Who initiated it? That's the problem. >> The chicken or the egg? I'm not talking about before. >> The chicken broke the egg. Okay. So, >> well, you probably ate chicken.
>> I'm vegan. What can I tell you? I don't eat eggs. >> No way. You never thought that. >> They're turning on you. Come over and show them. You got to say you hate us. You got to get them back. >> You burn. >> The point is you
>> got the hook. >> Leave it to be about the housing and the township and not the parties because you don't look good. >> Says one person in the room. Thank you.
If there notice if there are many notice how they clap for you line up so we can judge how many more people can send we can >> then we can vote if someone stops if they come up then we can vote >> Paula Mccertie and 19 Washington Avenue
>> just have to step a little closer there you go >> you hear me now Paula Mccertie >> I just want to say thank you for the AI data center warehouse um proposal to stop that. Please make
sure that it's done to the letter of the law so that we don't have to go back and fight about it later. I'm trusting you to do that. >> Uh I just want to let you know obviously I want to know why you think that we're here for the wrong reason tonight. >> It's sad when people have to come out
for something bad. I would love it if this many people came to every meeting >> because it would just be more important. I didn't mean this this is a good a reason to come out. >> Okay. just a sad reason >> because it did make it seem like, you know, you're here for the wrong reason. >> I wish we had a case.
>> Uh, so I'd like to know if you could answer for me, uh, how much money was spent in litigation to keep the solar farm off of the fries mill piece and the appeals and how much did the township spend to do that? So, if
somebody could answer that question for me. >> I don't think anybody has that information now, but >> but you can get it for us. Okay. Because there's a lot of information that's flying around and we don't know what's true and what's not and we're concerned.
We don't want to be made to, you know, we don't want fear to drive everything that's going on because this is what it seems like. That's just the climate now. It's all about fear and you
know we have to do this. The state is making us do this. We It's not us always passing the buck and we need to know that you're going to stand up for us and you're going to make sure that we are not going to get overwhelmed with all of
these all of this housing that is I mean look at Pennsylvania Avenue. If there's a fire in that proposed site, how do you think the firefighters are going to take care of that? There are so many problems and if they want to dictate to us then I
think that they should be responsible for taking care of the infra infrastructure and everything else and I don't think that we should just if we're nice people we'll take care of it. That's not the way it should be. And so I would really appreciate it if you
could make sure I know that you can go on the website. It's not always easy to find the information. So, if if there's some way that you could keep us informed and stop with all the fear-mongering, that would be great. Um, so, you know,
just please, you know, how we feel. >> I've lived in this township my whole life. I also was a product of split sessions at Deli, >> so I know how it was. I know how it is now as my children are going through.
And I don't want it to go back. >> THANK YOU FOR JIM KELLY, 2983 Dutch Mill Road. Um there's been some talk about uh that the various parcels of land that have been identified for this highdensity housing and I'd like to bring up the uh the one
piece in particular as it relates to F the Fry Mill Road u parcel. Um that parcel everyone knows that was was going to be considered a solar field. People were upset about that because of the the views, the pretty views, especially at
night, um, beautiful sunsets, and they were afraid that, you know, all they were going to see is solar panels. So, the solar company, the applicant goes before the zoning board and files his application, makes his presentation, and
gets denied. Um, the company felt that that was the wrong decision, sues the township, township loses. In the meantime, the applicant comes in front of the planning board. Same plan. He presents in front of the planning uh planning board. I don't know if any
variances were needed, but it was a pretty simple presentation. Um and what it would have done would have um provided that applicant with the ability to put the solar panels on that field. But there was so many I shouldn't say so
many restrictions, not really restrictions, but there were conditions as to uh what the township wanted to see as it related to a finished product. And that was a very uh intense screening of all the panels so that when you were driving down Fry Road, you wouldn't see
the panels at all. Um we spent a lot of time on that vegetation screening and the applicant was agreeable to everything we asked for. Uh, not only that, there was going to be a walking path that would have surrounded the entire perimeter. I mean, I I can't tell you how many
miles that would be. I got to believe from a full circle would be at least 5 months. Uh, so so so now you know the the the the planning board approves the plan. The um the litigation is still tied up between the zoning board,
actually the township and the uh the applicant. And for whatever reason, uh, again, you know, the the township lost in court decides to appeal that case. So my question, it's a long way to get to the question, but my question is, who made
the decision to appeal that case? Um, was it was it voted on during a committee meeting? >> The zoning board, I think, >> I don't by but you had to make the decision to spend that kind of money. I mean, I I believe it's it's well over
six figures in legal fees to fight that case. >> Six fig I don't I don't have the numbers in front of me. >> No, I I know. So, you don't have the answer, but but I believe it's it's well over six figures. So, um again, you know, if you thought if you fought the
applicant because you didn't want to see solar panels there, you knew the family was going to sell that property anyway and it wasn't going to be a farm forever. What? and and you had this COA issue hanging over your head the whole time. What did you think if you kicked
out the solar panels? What did you think was going to be put there? So, I I just hope that the residents understand that we had an opportunity to to save that property and it would have provided some recreation for people that might have wanted to take a walk around the
perimeter of that property. Not now. Hey, this is working. Neil Cohen, 920 Little Road. Many years ago, I lived in Ocean City and Ocean City had a requirement for to provide low-inccome housing. They bought a way out of it. From what I understand,
we can't do that here. Okay. Um Okay. So, we can't buy a way out of it. The state is suing us to do this, right? So, the only way to do that No, >> no. The developer suing us to do it
>> because it's a law. >> The state fair housing. >> Fair share housing. I understand that. So, everybody here said >> everybody here said they want to vote against it that they don't want it. There is something I did find
the dispute resolution program. Has anybody heard of that? >> That's what we're in right now. >> Okay. So, we can negotiate the amount of homes that the that they're going to put here for low-inccome housing, right? So
we can because it says towns can firmly challenge their assigned number by providing their own calculations based on factors like limited sewer capacity, environmental constraints, or lack of developed land.
>> So can we come up with our own number? If we're forced to do this, if we lower the number down, that lowers the amount of houses that will be built here, right? And all you guys will fight for that, right?
>> So if this is and no town has won in the state of New Jersey against no town has, nobody has. So the better of two evils is negotiate this down as low as possible. So they don't build the total number of houses that they're
>> I think this number is the low number. >> Like like well >> you're negotiating under their parameters. >> Okay. You think that? >> Well, well, she's going to answer for sure. >> Okay. So, we've actually done the research. We've come up with our own our own number. >> Okay. All right. >> That was done last year. >> It was done last year. And so, that
number would definitely be lower than the proposed. >> Yes. But it's a longer answer than that, but go ahead with your question. >> No, no, no. I was just wondering if you looked into that and apparently you have already. >> Yeah. >> Okay.
>> Yeah. Do you want me to >> Yeah. Yeah, why don't you go? >> I'm I'm going to explain a little bit so that if you do have additional questions, maybe this will help everybody understand what's going on. Um, my name is Nancy Holm. I work at Serenian Edwards, Boozak, and Nolan. Um,
is is this on? Can everybody hear me? Okay, I talk pretty loud, so but just in case, please let me know if you can't hear me. Um, I have been an affordable housing attorney for about 20 years. Uh, in fact, one of my first cases was Franklin Township back in 2007. So, um,
I want to explain to everyone how the process goes first. Um, and then I will explain where Franklin Township sits right now so that maybe you may not still like it. I don't like it. I represent over 20 towns throughout the
state from North Jersey all the way down to Salem County. Um, I hate every single thing about this bill that was passed in 2024. Okay. Um, I have been representing municipalities for a very long time. Uh, I am married to a farmer, so I
understand why you're frustrated and I understand um I understand everything about this process. Okay. Um, my uh my law firm represents over a 100 municipalities across the state. That's about 20% of
the municip municipalities in the state. There are only about seven of us, so you can imagine we're pretty exhausted. Um, my law partners went to Trenton every day of the hearings on this bill and jumped up and down screaming, saying how
detrimental this was not only to the state, to the environment, to uh municipal process, uh, to the taxpayers of this state, to the taxpayers of each municipality, um, to the school systems, to everything
to down to how quickly they made us do all of this. Uh it was not transparent. It was not fair. It was not fair to any of you. Um unfortunately the statute that was created created a court process
which means and the dispute resolution program is we call it the program for short um created a mediation process. And what happens in mediation is that everything is confidential until you get to a settlement. Unfortunately,
we jumped up and down screaming at Trenton and told them this was unfair. This is unfair to all of you. They did not care and they passed it anyway. So, I want you guys to understand that not one of them cared. They barely changed anything that was beneficial to you or
to the municipalities. It only uh it only impacted the builders as usual through the Mount Laurel doctrine. The only people who have benefited from 1975 to today are the builders. So if there's anybody who
understands how angry you are, it's me. Okay? I have a lot of municipalities just like you guys who have been railroaded by this particular process in round four. So I understand, okay, I want you all to to know that, okay, from
the bottom of my heart. the this process was designed to stay away from you because there was a governor's election this past November. Everything was behind closed doors by the time November rolled around. You may have known what the what the
township's number was before the election, but everything else was kept quiet until after. And the impacts are just now coming out. and I have sat in rooms like this for many, many hours
across the state. Um, but I'm going to try to bore you a little bit and I do apologize. Um, just so that everybody understands Franklin Township itself. Um, there are four affordable housing rounds. um the total number of just
affordable units for Franklin Township that is responsible from from the in induction of the Mount Laurel doctrine. So from from the time COA started 1986 through today is 936 units. Okay. The
original fair housing act said that municipalities could not be forced to expend their own money to comply. The same Supreme Court that created the Mount Laurel doctrine also created the builder's remedy. And what that meant is
if your if your municipality does not comply, a builder can force you to comply. And what they can do is come in with an absurd amount of density with a 20% set aside, which is so for every so one in every five units is going to be
an affordable unit. And I'll get into that in a second. So multiply 936 * 5 and that's where we are. Okay, you are not alone. I know that doesn't that rings hollow to
everyone in this room and I understand. Okay. Um I it's nice to be back in Franklin Township. By the way, I haven't been here in 20 years and you haven't changed and I still it's it's a great place to be and um I do applaud you for that
because it's a nice place to be. Um what happened in this process which is different from the old process is in order to have immunity from builder's remedy and this is something we also jumped up and downstreaming so that you
did not have a builder come in and force you to comply. You voluntarily complied by filing an affordable housing plan. Okay, that prior to this new housing cycle that was adopted in 2024
gave you a lot of protection. I'm currently undefeated in uh immunity and in preserving immunity throughout the state when builders have tried to come into towns where I have where my towns have voluntarily complied. I like to brag about that. Um, unfortunately the
way the process is set up now is last June, Franklin Township filed an affordable housing plan to keep that immunity. It rings hollow because every builder in the state got to file what is basically
a builder's remedy against every town in the state if they wanted to and take advantage of the process and force the municipality to negotiate with them behind closed doors because it's a mediation process and it's confidential
so that none of you knew how many units truly were going to be built. This happened all over the state. You're not alone. It doesn't make it any better. >> And that the mediation is not voluntary. >> Yeah. And the mediation was not voluntary. You were you were put in
front of a judge and the judge said across the state, settle with this developer. Now, Franklin Township doesn't have water or sewer. And the last um the last man I forgot I forgot your name and I'm very sorry wherever he went. Um thank
you. Um thank you. Um you brought up a good point. you don't have a water or sewer. So, that number can be adjusted down. The number was adjusted down for Franklin Township. The problem is if you have, and this has been across the board
for every housing cycle, if a developer comes in proposing affordable housing, even if you've lowered that you lowered your number, you have to support their project moving forward with water and sewer. That is across the board. That
has been the law since COA was established in 1985. >> That's yes that you had to support. I didn't say pay for it. A lot of times the township did have to pay at least for the prora share of the affordable units. Okay. But
you had to support any application to the D um any application to Clayton to Vinand to whoever to get that capacity. Okay. So, you were not off the hook with that number even though you adjusted it
down. And we still have an adjusted number. Okay. But we have a developer who has come in and taken advantage of the process that was created by the builder association, by fair share housing center, and a lot of other lobbyists to to wreak havoc across the
state. Um, and this is where we are today. Okay. Um, until the mediation agreement could could be finalized, it had to be done confidentially, unfortunately. And like I said, we jumped up and down screaming
at Trenton and no one cared. Um, what you do need to understand is these projects still have to go through the planning board. Okay? The township, if it decides to accept the mediation
agreements tonight, has to introduce those or introduce ordinances that make the projects an as of right application to the zoning board with as with as minimal v uh variances. Sorry, it's a little hot in here. I don't know if
anybody noticed. Um as minimal variances possible. So they have to provide the zoning that creates the projects that are creating the affordable units. Okay? Um that has always been the case in affordable housing whether you were sued
by a builder in 1985 or whether you were sued by a builder through this process. So that has not changed. Um every developer comes in and wants the world. Okay? And hold on one second. So, um, but that means that they still have to
go to D and get all of the approvals. They have to get water. They have to get sewer. They have to delineate the wetlands. Uh, they have to figure out how many, I don't know, uh, horny toads are on the property that are uh,
threatening endangered species. Does bald eagle live there? I don't know. So, they still have to go through the process that any other builder would have to go through. They just have as of right zoning. They don't have to go to the zoning board. They go directly to the planning board. Planning board has public hearings.
So I I'm sure that it'll be just as hot when they come in and all of you will be there. Um so um was there an alternative plan? Yes. Franklin uh had settled with Fair Share Housing Center in the last round
and they put forward the same pro the same uh plan for this round because you don't have any water and sewer. So, the number was adjusted down and the same mechanisms that Franklin just put in place a couple of years ago with the agreement of Fairshare Housing
Center were used. And um I believe that Fairshare did not have that big of a problem with it. But the problem is you had a developer coming in who took advantage of the system that was created for him and here and this is what we're left with. And I would like to tell you
that Franklin is unique and you should throw the baby out with the bath water, but this is happening everywhere. You can go to any municipal website in Gloucester County. I represent a couple of them. Same thing is happening everywhere and it's not fair and I am
really sorry about that. We did the best that we could. Uh this did come from Trenton. Two years ago I was at the League of Municipalities and the mayor of Newark said to everyone in the room, affordable housing will be a top- down process from here on out and you will
lose home rule. Mayor Barakas said that at the League of Municipalities two years ago to everyone in the room. We had no idea. I think it was three three years ago. Um we had no idea what he meant, but now we do. Um so that's where
we are. Um I I just want to um that's generally the process. So if everyone has questions following up from that, that's what we're dealing with and that's what everybody in the state is dealing with. So um I know that probably
doesn't make you feel any better, but that is generally the the affordable housing process. It's why we have to address it by April 29th. >> Oh, right. Why we have to address it by It's actually April 29th. Um the court everyone in the state um aside from
Franklin Township had to have everything in by March 16th. Every single town in the state. You can imagine how tired I am. Um, I was able to secure a 45day extension for Franklin Township because um because
of the change in attorneys and planners and at the state that the mediation agreements were in. So, we had time to negotiate with the developers further. So, that's why it has to be done this way. Um, we also uh disagreed severely
with Trenton on this process because it forces municipalities to do this way too quickly. and you lost your immunity the second that you missed that deadline. So that means that more developers can come in aside from ALR 1 2 and three um to try
to force this. Uh, one thing to consider, um, if you refuse to comply, the absolute worst possible case scenario that can happen within the state, you can look it up. It's called, uh, the city of Englewood Cliffs. Uh,
the court is currently their planning board because they refuse to comply with the Mount Laurel doctrine. So the court master who's now called a special adjudicator approves all of the projects and there's no more planning board.
So that is the absolute worst case. You refuse to comply. Um so that that is the state of affairs for Franklin. That's the state of affairs for the entire state. And I I wish it was better. And we all thought that
round three was terrible being in the court system. It was way better than what's happened here. >> Oh, um, uh, I believe someone said that, uh, why can't we do our own affordable housing that requires water and sewer? Uh, so if we wanted to do a 100%
affordable project, for example, and not have all of the market rate units, which I can explain market rate versus 100% in a second, um, 100% affordable projects would require water and sewer just like these bigger projects would. Um, they
also uh don't score as well in Gloucester County. I have been fighting with the Housing Mortgage and Finance Agency for years on behalf of South Jersey because your rents are not as high, so you don't score as well as North Jersey and North Jersey ends up getting a lot of the a lot of the
awards. It's the way the system set up. I don't know why. They've ch they've tried to make some changes. It it's still not fair. uh when it comes to uh 100% affordable projects, if those do not get funded by the state, um then the
municipality is forced to bond to build that project and they're about 25 to $50 million. So, if you don't get the funding from the state, you're on the hook as the taxpayers to pay for that. Um so, the
difference between 100% and I'm sorry, I hope I'm not telling making everyone fall asleep. Um, so inclusionary development is when you have a 20% set aside. Obviously, if you're building affordable units, you're not charging as high rents. You're not
selling um a particular property for as much as you would the market rate unit. So the market rate units subsidize what you're losing on the affordable units because you don't have in a 100% project, you don't have those market rate units to subsidize the affordable
units. you need a significant amount of funding in order to make those units those units profitable. So that's um that's the difference and that's why it's a 20% set aside versus uh versus the other. So I hope I didn't bore any
of you if you have. So I don't know um >> process how about the actual what's proposed by >> process um >> right? So, um what you'll see in the um in the settlement agreements were um you
have uh a significant amount of property set aside for open space where a lot of other projects where that we settled across the state do not have as much open space included in each of these parcels. Um the density on average is
very low. Uh six units an acre for these inclusionary projects. Usually they're 8 to 10. Um I had a developer come in for 152 units an acre in one of my we did not settle for that but that's where they came in. Um that was was in
northern New Jersey. Um I'm trying to think of the other advantages of Oh, and um and we also made the developer responsible for um ensuring that the HOA could financially
support any of the storm water basins and uh if there are package treatment plants uh involved, if they don't get sewer, they would do package treatment plants. um that they would be in perpetuity financially responsible and the township would not be responsible
for those for those of the upkeep of those 30 years from now when there when there's maintenance issues. >> Uh is that did I miss anything? I think I'm looking at the question uh just maybe on the the someone had asked a question about notice on the 200 list. This is not a planning board or zoning
board application. So that process this is townshipwide uh process here. So there's no notice to the 200 >> when they go before the planning board there if that happens. um to uh
sorry safety operation safety >> I know hold on let me get to those those questions were very good um um okay so yes uh if there are if there are group homes supportive and special needs units you can include them in your plan um
there is a cap on senior housing uh at 30% so Only 30% of the 963 can be senior. >> Add more income to your house, right? >> Add more what? >> Not just senior housing income,
>> right? Yes. So, but it's capped at 30%. It's capped at 30%. >> Yes. Yes. Absolutely. Um, yes, you can rehab municipally owned uh parcels. Uh, it t is typically very expensive. Um, and we still need 963 units. Um there
was a coalition of towns uh that sued to stop this current round four uh that lost in both the state court and at the state supreme court and as well at the uh federal level. They did not get the injunction. It's on its way to the
United States Supreme Court. What you need to understand about the original Mount Laurel doctrine was that Chief Justice Wins was very smart and he did not make it about race even though the NAACP when they filed the lawsuit against Mount Laurel Township uh it was
about they was racially discriminatory. He made it income based and not racebased which kept it out of the federal courts. And for 50 years, the federal courts have systematically dismissed every single challenge to the Mount Laurel doctrine. So that's where
we are today. Uh the state supreme court systematically dismisses every challenge to the Mount Laurel doctrine. Uh what you need to understand is that the Supreme Court told the legislature to act in Mount Laurel 4 and that was in 2015. We had an entire round where the
legislature did not act. They saw round four coming and they acted. So the Supreme Court is likely going to say, "We told the legislature to act. This is what you get." So that's where we are with this. Unfortunately, I wish I had
better news for all of you. Um but that's um that's where we are. Uh and it wouldn't be nursing homes, it would be assisted living facilities. you can count tw% of th of them because the state requires that 10% of all Medicaid
I mean all assisted living beds be uh available to Medicaid uh recipients. Um I'm trying to >> and then counting houses that already exist as affordable. >> Yes, counting houses that already exist as affordable. Um we actually did this in 2007 when I was Franklin Township's
affordable housing attorney. It's called credits without controls. There was a townshipwide survey done um that uh if people filled out the forms um we could count them as naturally affordable units, if they fit the certain criteria,
they had to be built within a certain window. The the households that lived there had to qualify. So, you had to give up your financial information. Uh typically those uh those surveys don't bring out a lot of people because who wants to tell the town all of your financial information? I don't blame
you. Uh so we do have 36 credits. They're called credits without controls. Um and that was done. Uh the entire township uh received a survey in 2007 or 8. Uh and that was done. Um,
>> I'll give it. >> We We can try. >> If you want, we can we can definitely do that. There's nothing that prohibits us from finding alternative affordable housing units here. It it the issue is that we have a developer who has challenged us and that there's a
settlement agreement, but that doesn't mean that we can't find uh affordable units elsewhere. So, um that can definitely be done. Um >> the developer is called um well the the company is ALR but it's called Active
Acquisitions uh is the name of the company. They're all over the state. Um and they but they usually get the approvals and sell it to another developer. >> Question. >> When was that survey done last? Uh but
sometime between 2007 and 2011. So we have >> no we did one we did one recently. >> H >> we did one recently. >> The credits without control. Well we can talk about that but yes that's I don't want to get bogged down in that but that was done. Um it's
>> it's relatively expensive and the turnout is usually low like I said because it's >> you know mildly intrusive into your life and asking your financial information. So, uh, >> yeah. So, um, but that was done in the
past. Uh, I'm trying to find traffic. Um, like I said, traffic, water, and sewer studies will all be done, um, when the planning board application comes in. Um, >> I have a question. >> Uh, yes. >> Yes.
>> I got the map just somebody sent me a picture of a map on Pennsylvania Avenue. Okay. How far is that way from where they're going? >> Directly across the street. >> Across the street. Right across the street. >> You're looking way to the right.
>> So they're looking >> at way from the ball field to your left. >> Yeah. >> Okay. So it's it's kind of across the street from the old from the new ball
field. Is that what I'm guessing? >> Am I right on that? >> Actually, come up to the >> You just have to put on the record. >> Yeah. >> Take your name, please. >> How? Kimley 575. Read out of >> Okay.
>> So, I just I just had a question. Um I've lived here pretty much all my life. I used to ride up and down Pennsylvania Avenue to the ball field when it was dirt, before there was asphalt before it even went through. Before
Pennsylvania Avenue finished. All right, >> Dad. >> So, here's >> just hold that power. Okay. So, here's here's my situation >> is if they're going to do water testing and things like that,
>> beside the ball fields, you have another new set of ball fields, hockey field, that kind of stuff that we put there. Correct. >> Some of you are my age. Do you guys remember what that was? >> Was a dome. >> That was a dome. That was a dome. That was a landfill. >> Yeah. >> Okay. So, this is what I'm asking. You
can't tell me that some of these houses that are built beside there, I know they got to have some kind of water softeners. They got to have sucking in there. That water has got to be contaminated. I went there with my father and I can tell you the crap that we dumped there was insane.
Okay? Because back then, what did we do? They changed all their own motor oil. So, what would they do? That thing is contaminating. And you can't tell me that it's not. And I I hate to say it, but if half the people knew what was there, they
probably would have never built a house. I can guarantee you that. >> I I'm, you know, that's just my concern is is, you know, everybody's worried about water. I know everybody drinks bottled water, but there's got to be contamination there. There's got to be.
And again, if I tried to build a house on that, the state would stop me or even around that, but it's good for them to do it. We're not at that point. The answer, they're just trying to get the right, >> okay, >> to do it at some point in the future. There's no plan. There's no nothing before the planning board. >> There I
>> I think that's a key thing that should be brought up. >> That was a contaminated site. And for years, I think when did they close that? 87 88. >> Right around there. >> They had tractor and trailers that went back in there with compactors. They built things.
>> Can I ask everybody? We are recording so it's it does create a lot of background noise. Thank you very much. >> I mean you know tractor trailers used to used to back in throw your trash in there. They used to compact it tractor and trailer would drive away bring
another trailer in. I mean almost I would say every day that thing was open and they had like a sevenyard articulated bucket trying you know. Yeah. you know, and just dump crap in
there. Like, and >> I mean, that's really the only thing that's good for now is playing ball, right? You can't use it for anything else, >> right? >> And why why are those pipes and all that? I mean, you're probably monitoring the gas out there. Am I correct? >> Yes. >> Okay. So,
>> a party did that for >> this is stuff that have to be brought up and I know half you guys that >> you know >> how here's here's the dilemma. Go ahead. D is going to, you know, have to approve that, right? Who controls the D? Trenton. There you go. There's your answer. They probably already approved. >> We'll go over the helicopter and see
that nice piece of ground, right? >> They probably already have it approved. >> And they haven't even seen it yet. It's probably already stamped. >> Just who controls them? >> There's nothing further from the public. >> We can vote on it. >> They just to say they they will have to
do all requires testing for the DP and all of those things. So all we can do is uh move it forward as far as affordable housing goes. >> Linda Turner 3147 Takahoo Road. >> You have to get closer. >> Turner 3147 Takahoo Road. I think we
have we have picked this can down for many many years. I've been in this township over 30 years. So we have picked it down. You know there's a lot of issues here. A lot of things that we did. A lot of things we should have did.
you know, losing our immunity could mean significant challenges for us if we do that. The other thing is is that you were here since 2007, I'm assuming, representing us. >> Not the whole time. >> Back then and again,
>> well, let's talk about the dinosaur in the room. >> What about Meredith Farms? Would that been a source back in the day for us, the township, to get involved with the builder to put our own affordable housing in? There's a water issue. There's a water
issue. Yes. Still is. >> Still contaminated. >> Want to connect that to >> they had sewage but not water. >> Not water. >> Sewage not water. >> There are places that we we could have possibly controlled the situation. I
agree with the other gentleman who said the solar farm. We don't want it. We don't want them cutting down trees to put in developments or solar farms. However, if you have a farmland, putting a solar farm would have been ideal for that. That's why I have to say is that I
know that builders can I think it's in 2025 they are allowing builders to put affordable housing in their communities in their municipalities. But you have to find a builder because I don't think with our lawsuits and things that we
have that were financially capable of doing that >> township burden on the township to build its own inclusion or affordable housing is very expensive. I think you said 25 to 50 million. That's only going to yield you about 50 units, >> right? >> Yeah. >> But you don't want another builder
willing to come in and partner with you. You know, >> there there's no market there's no profit margin for them to build that. 14 to 30% per unit on account. You take what they're getting for the land. Okay? Divide that per acre,
whatever whatever it is $9,000, how many units, and then you're just looking at their construction cost, their hard cost, their soft cost. You know, they're making decent money. 30 to 30% nowadays market. >> That's a market value home.
>> You don't think they are? No, I know they're not. >> Well, let me tell you, you know what I'm going to >> We can't Yeah, we can't talk. >> And I'm talking about probably 15 20 years ago, there were builders making 14 18%
>> regulations. All right. >> Mayor, do you want to allow follow-ups? Now, there's going to be a second public session after we get through the items on the agenda. >> Yes, >> this gentleman hasn't spoken yet. So, we're going to hear him. The mayor said,
"We really do have a one person at a time rule. >> Didn't tell us that we had options and have a meeting like this where we could tell you we're willing to spend $40 million and not have
Thank you sir. >> Bryce, 313 Dutch Mill Road. So you guys are saying you want to fight this, you don't like it. Um my my question is uh what are do you have a game plan moving
forward? What's what's going to happen if you if you choose to vote this down? >> That's a great question. And if you decide to approve it, uh what do we see in front of us?
Can you can you explain what happens if we do vote it down? Uh can you please explain if we do vote it down what it's going to cost us? >> Yes. Okay. So, um if if it's voted down tonight, um ALR and Fair Share Housing
Center will file a motion to strip Franklin Township's immunity, which will likely be granted. Um what would happen from there is that um the case would be dismissed and uh we would be subject to whoever wanted to
file a builder's remedy. Um it to give you an example, Middletown Township in Mammoth County did not voluntarily comply in round three and they got hit with five builders remedies at the end of round three uh for
several hundred units uh on each property. Um so other implications uh if you are not involved in the program process uh we do have uh an affordable housing trust fund 20% of which pays for
uh my fees and the planners fees to get this uh to get compliance finished. If we are not going to comply and our immunity is stripped uh the general fund will then pay for attorneys fees to defend any builder's remedies that come
in. uh the township the way that the Fair Housing Act is written today, you do not get immunity again until the judge signs off on your certified plan at the end of that builder's remedy, which means that another builder can come in and file another builder's
remedy at any time until from now from that point in time that you no longer have immunity until uh until the municipality come becomes compliant. Uh that didn't used to be the case. Usually you would apply for immunity if you got sued by a developer. You say, "Okay,
we'll we'll settle with this guy and we'll put a plan together, judge. Give us immunity from everyone else." And the judges usually did that. They now are prohibited from doing that. So you can have a dog pile of builders come in. if um if during the builder's remedy,
Franklin Township continues to refuse to cooperate and continues to um uh to either settle or um you can go to trial and then the judge will decide how many units will be built by ALR um at
the end of that trial. Um, if after that decision, Franklin Township still refuses to qu to cooperate, we get to the Englewood Cliffs issue where then after a trial, they refuse to cooperate and now the court is their planning
board. >> What do you guys think? >> They can't. >> I don't think we're supposed to tell you. I think we're supposed to vote. >> Yeah, they can't prejudge. They've got to move. >> So, can I ask what's your plan for this?
>> What is your question, please? >> If it gets approved, >> what's the plan? What's the game plan? the road or limit is approved. What's the game plan moving forward to continue to look out for the best interest of the township and try to uh prevent the actual physical construction of these uh
these units? >> If it gets approved, it is part of the plan and when the builder is ready to come in, it'll go before the planning board. the planning board um will have to abide by the zoning that that has been adopted if the ordinances get
adopted and passed and uh you know hold the builder accountable for things like making sure that their HOA is solid and funded or they bonded so that if any of the um community areas fail like a retention pot or something like that that's covered but once it's if it's
approved and adopted the ordinances are drafted they'll be subject to a public hearing those would be the parameters under which holder can come in and build. >> Well, I just hope you guys do everything you can. You're all saying you you want to fight it, so we're just we're just
hoping you do as much as you can. >> Thanks. >> Thanks, Frank. >> Thanks, Frank. >> Do we have a meeting or not >> right now? Yes. >> Yes. >> No. No. We have until April 29th to file everything to continue to have immunity,
which means that if a developer came out of the woodwork today and said, "I want to build a thousand units. We they the court would not allow them to come into our process." That's that's what immunity is for. The the only people who are in the door right now are Fair Share Housing Center and ALR. They were the
ones that filed by the deadline. If you did not file by that deadline, you are not no you're not allowed to participate in this process. >> But if we vote this down tonight, we lose it. Correct. >> That's correct. >> Yes. >> Are we allowed to know who the principal
owners of ALR LLC corporation, whatever they are, are they allowed to know who the principal owners are? >> Um, it should be um it should be public record on the state website. I think it should say who the principles are. And for registered LLC's it should be on
there. >> Yeah. If they apply >> it's a just to explain. So typically what happens there's so let's say it's it's Khovnian because they're not involved in our process. So I'm going to use them as an example because they're not involved. So if Hovnian comes in and builds a
project, right? And it's called the freeze mill. Uh it's going to be freeze mill LLC. They always create an an entity that's just for that. Well, it's not a shell company, but it's it's just for that project, and that limits the liability to that project. And that's
just that's just how builders work. It's not necessarily a shell company to hide anything. It's that it's just how, you know, whether it's a nonprofit developer building a 100% affordable project, they have they'll have a Franklin Township Affordable Units LLC, they'll just they
make their the own entity that owns that property, that manages that property, and and operates that property. uh as a sole entity. So that's how that works. >> Motion to close. >> Motion to close. >> Motion to close the first public portion. >> Motion to close first public portion.
>> Second. >> Second. >> All those in favor? >> I resolutions resolution 6426 authorizing referral to Franklin Township Planning Board review and comment on ordinance 0526 AI data centers prohibited.
>> Motion R 6426. >> Second. Matt. >> Mr. Doyle. >> Yes. >> Mr. Fell. >> Yes. >> Mr. King. >> Yes. >> Mr. >> Yes. >> Mayor Ba. >> Yes. >> Resolution 6526 acknowledging and
directing township administrator to complete and submit the required documentation to NJEDA for an award of additional supplement HDSRF grant monies and remediation 724 Deli Drive USA Gas. >> Motion R6526.
>> Second. Mr. Doyle, >> yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Mayor Bruno, >> yes. Resolution 6626, appointing engineering firm for landfill monitoring services, Pennsylvania Avenue Landfield and Fields.
>> Motion R 6626. >> Second. >> Mr. Doyle. >> Yes. >> Mr. Fella. >> Yes. >> Mr. King. >> Yes. >> Mr. Marsh. >> Yes. Mayor >> Bruno. >> Yes. Resolution 6726 authorizing tax collector to approve tax exemption for a totally disabled veteran.
>> Motion R6726. >> Second. >> Mr. Doyle. >> Yes. >> Mr. Kella. >> Yes. >> Mr. King. >> Yes. >> Mr. Marsh. >> Yes. >> Mayor Bruno. >> Yes. Resolution 6826 authorizing tax collectors to approve tax exemption for a totally disabled veteran.
>> Motion R 6826. >> Second. >> Mr. Doyle. >> Yes. >> Mr. Fel. >> Yes. >> Mr. Yes. >> Marsh. >> Yes. >> Mayor Bruno. >> Yes. Resolution 6926 authorizing the tax collector to approve tax exemption for a totally disabled venture.
>> Motion R 6926. >> Second. >> Mr. Doyle. >> Yes. >> Mr. Finella. >> Yes. >> Mr. King. >> Yes. >> Mr. Marsh. >> Yes. >> Mayor Bruno. >> Yes. Resolution 7026. Authorize the administrator to sell surplus township
vehicles on govdees.com. >> Motion R 7026. Second Mr. >> Doyle. >> Yes. >> Mr. Mayell. >> Yes. >> Mr. King. >> Yes. >> Mr. Marsh. >> Yes. >> Mayor Bruno. >> Yes. >> Resolution 7126. Authorizing the close
executive meeting for the council committee of the council Franklin. >> Motion R 7126. >> Second. >> Mr. Doyle. >> Yes. >> Mr. Fell. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Marsh. >> Yes. Mayor >> Bruno. >> Yes. Resolution 7226. to authorizing the
township solicitor and administrator to complete the required paperwork for modified settlement with ALRC LLC. >> Motion R 7226. >> Second. >> Mr. Royal. >> No. >> No.
Mr. >> Keane, >> no. Mr. >> Mark, >> no. Mayor >> Bernham. >> Absolutely not. Resolution 7326 authorizing township solicitor administrator to complete the required paperwork for mediated
settlement with the New Jersey Fair Share Housing Commission. >> Motion R 7326. >> Second >> Mr. Doyle. >> No, >> no. >> No.
>> You guys ready to fight? >> No. No. >> Uh, we're going to move on to ordinances. Motion to introduce the following ordinances. 0326, 0426, and 0626. The public hearing will be on May
12th, 2026 at 7 p.m. 0326 amending chapter 218 Enforcement Administration section 16 additional required inspections and fees and establishing a new fee schedule for non-life hazard annual inspection fees title only.
>> Motion 326 >> second >> yes Mr. Fell >> yes >> yes Mr. Marsh. >> Yes. >> Mayor >> Bruno. >> Yes. >> Uh, ordinance 426, establishing the 2026
munitional municipal budget appropriation limits and establish a cap bank title only. >> Motion 0426. >> Second. >> Mr. Doyle. >> Yes. >> Mr. Fell. >> Yes. >> Mr. Kee. >> Yes. >> Mr. Marsh. >> Yes. >> Mayor Bruno.
>> Yes. Ordinance 626 amending chapter 37334 movement of traffic on municipal and school board property title only. Motion 0626. >> Second. Mr. >> Doyle. >> Yes. >> Mr. Ellis.
>> Yes. >> Yes. >> Marsh. >> Yes. >> Mayor. >> Yes. >> Jackie. Um, >> so we will pull ordinances 7, 8, and nine.
>> Um, then 10 is um Yeah, we'll pull 10 as well. >> Okay. So, we're going to introduce another motion. The following ordinance is 0526. Public hearing will be on June 9th, 2026, pending planning board review.
And that' be ordinance 526 amending Franklin Township Code Chapter 253 land development chapter and sections 2533 definitions and chapter in section 25396 prohibited uses to define data center and computer center and to
distinguish them and to conform that data centers are prohibited uses structures and all zoning districts title only. >> Motion 0526 >> second. >> Yes. Yes. >> Mr. King. >> Yes. >> Marsh. >> Yes.
>> Mayor Bruno. >> Yes. >> Mayor, if I may, >> the item on the planning board as it related to an amended fair housing plan will also be withdrawn based on tonight's bill. >> Thank you.
A motion for the second public portion for comments. >> Motion for a second public portion. >> Second. >> All those in favor? Uh, hi. >> Hi. >> Keep it quick. >> Mary Kennedy, 1578 Fresno Road. Uh, ladies and gentlemen, you just saw the
>> Mr. Kennedy, before you, I just like to thank everybody that came out that's leaving. Uh, if anybody wants to bear the heat, u, >> thank you very much for coming. >> I'll be more than happy to talk to you afterwards. Thank you, Mark. That was so nice of you. Uh, ladies and gentlemen, you just
saw the greatest the greatest disappearing act in the history of Franklin Township. >> You heard what the new >> tell solicitor said. Is your phone calling out to do that? >> No, >> it's in your hand. It's in your hand. >> Phone's in your hand.
>> No, it's >> What is that? >> Must not be in the phone. >> Yeah, it's pretty good. Anybody else? >> Ladies and gentlemen, Mike what Mike said tonight was true to a degree. >> A lot of this goes a lot.
>> Okay. >> How about turn it off? >> That's why it >> you got the lungs. There you go. >> You can't turn it off. >> Is it okay now? >> Yeah. >> All right. Tonight you saw one of the great escape acts in the history of
Franklin Township. We kicked everything down the road until after the primary. That's all we did. Okay. >> Remember what was said by the new solicitor who I commend who I was told by Leah Valo who was also our color solicitor. That's an excellent law firm
that does a spectacular job around the state. We're very lucky to have them and I'm sure the new administration will be continuing your service into the future. But remember what I said, it was like hiring a fire company after the arsonist
burnt down the town. The reality is this, that there were deals cut. The same people that came here and gave us the Rome property deal. Remember those names? John Kainer, Chris Wall, Seth
Gersburg. Those are names that she hears all the time in every town throughout the state. They're the people that are involved in those three LLC's. Now, I'm going to ask the township committee to do something because they're actually two honest people up there at least and
one smart one. Ask Ask this gentleman for every piece of documentation for you that he has on the properties that are involved on Oak Avenue. Ask him for everything he did with the Jay
Albuckle property. Ask him for everything he did on the Friesville Road property. Ask him for everything he did on the Pennsylvania Avenue property. Because we didn't get rid of lowcost housing. We just delayed it until after the primary. Ladies and gentlemen, you
have a choice. You can either have some new faces in the old town hall or you can have the same continuation of crap that you've had for the past 3 years. It's time for change. And I'm going to tell you this tonight. I went online and
ordered a petition for a group of people to run as independent candidates. I'm going to fill that petition out and there will be a Kennedy on that petition. somebody that's run 13 times in Franklin Township and won 13 times. There will be a
Kennedy on that petition. And I'm not going to file it. I will not file it if those two young Republicans win the nomination because there are people that will try to do the right thing. You heard us tonight. Give us Barabus. One
of the gentlemen up here makes the majority of his money from developers. That's where he makes his money. That's where it comes from. He works for Ryan Holmes. All right. He was a member of the South Jersey Builder League. He's a member also with the Norcross law firm
of Parker and McKay. All right. You can tell anybody you want to that we're against it. Yeah, we're against it. But this guy met with Kir Wall and Gersburg. Met time after time after time. You can
buy the baloney. It's always being sold. You can buy it. But there's a quote from Jonathan Swit that I really like a lot. He says, "You know, politics is like a spiderweb. It catches all the little flies, but the gigantic wasps fly right
through." And tonight, we've seen a lot of wasps flying right through. Let's get some new faces in this town hall. Thank you. And remember what they did to you tonight. Because it was postponed and delayed, it wasn't avoided. Thank you.
That was a mic drop. >> Thanks for coming out, guys. Joe, get your dad to fix the air conditioning. Would you fix the air conditioning? >> What? >> Joseph Jenna 5269. >> Hold on. There's people walking out there. >> I can't hear you. >> [ __ ] rude [ __ ]
>> Take your discussions outside because we have a speaker. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Yeah, go ahead. >> Joseph, Jenna 5269 Lake Road. I'm here on behalf of my family. Uh, a couple meetings ago, there was something said after a meeting, during a meeting with a person that's living in the woods or
camping in the woods or gardening in the woods, uh, adjacent to my property or my family's property. I just want to state for the record, he is not our friend. We do not give him permission to come on our property. He cut down a vast amount of trees on our property, destroying a
natural windbreak on our farm. I believe that was intentional so he can have clear sunlight on his 200 foot garden. Um, in his defense, he did not dig a hole on his property for a outouse. He
dug it on our property. That's >> what I said. >> To defecate it. >> All right. Um, I don't care what anybody does on their property. It's your business. You do what you got to do. But you're crossing the line when you're calling somebody else's property. I had some nice stuff conversations with the
guy. I had some heated conversations with the guy. Uh I ended up filling the hole in after telling him to fill it in. Um like I said, he's not our friend. That's what I just want to say. >> Thanks, Jeff. Thanks, Jeff. Paula Mccertie, 1019 Washington Avenue.
I apologize. I wasn't aware that I was going to be able to answer my ask my followup question. >> No problem. >> I just want to make sure that I understand what you said. Now, is what you're telling us what we've seen online with the proposed number of housing
units, low income, and then with the additional market value housing, all of that is the best you were able to do. Is that what I'm understanding with the mediation that you came to this decision
and this was less than what this was a negotiation? Is that what I'm understanding? >> Uh, this was a negotiation. I was not involved in the mediation. I was I was hired in January. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> I I negotiated additional terms with to
finalize it to get it here, but the numbers of number of units and everything else was already was already mediated by the program. >> Okay. So, does it mean that if if the committee doesn't approve the mediation
that's on the table by the 29th of April, does that mean that then we are open to more builders coming into the township and unlimited amount of suing and building and that's
what that means? >> Yes. until we have a compliant plan that the judge has signed off on. >> Yes. >> Okay. And is that something that can be done before this new deadline? >> They voted down it down. But what I'm saying is that we lose our immunity.
Correct. >> So let's >> or did we already lose it just by voting? >> Their definition of immunity is you're not really immune. We're we're getting shoes, but we have >> fake immunity. Yeah. You get a little >> I just want Yeah. I just want I just want to know if we made things worse.
That's what I want to know. >> It's brand new legislation. We may end up with a judge telling us later on that that's the same deal that they wants us to accept, >> but we're we're going to be subject to at least the lawsuit by ALR once the
immunity goes away. So, they will be suing to do more than they were trying to do here. So, we do have we do have until April we have until April 29th to provide a compliant plan if we we could
schedule special meetings. We could introduce ordinances again and or ask the court for additional time. Um it is unlikely we're going to get additional time and on April 30th uh there would likely be a motion to strip our
immunity. We we do have until April 29th to see if we can do something else, >> figure out a solution that would at least >> right >> delay so that we could figure out how it
needs to be done as as uh I guess as best as possible. That's not what I >> wor the least worst way. >> Correct. Yes, a lot of my a lot of my towns use that. The least worst choice is where where we are with affordable
housing in the state of New Jersey is where we are. But I will do my best to get somewhere for everyone. But uh we don't have much time now. So, but we're I always I'm always an optimist.
>> Okay. And I was a little confused about the deadlines for the supposed meeting. Yeah, >> they did they change or did the council before you not do everything that they should have been doing? >> No, the c everyone did what they were supposed to do.
>> In order to have immunity up to this point, you had to satisfy every deadline in the Fair Housing Act and that started in January. You had to accept your numbers last January. So this started last January where you adopted a binding resolution to say my number for round
four is this, right? So then after that you had to file a plan by June 30th of 2025. So then you continued your immunity. Um about 40 towns dropped out at that point. Uh there were 460 and
then there were and then 420 went from June. Then um builders and fair share housing center had until August 31st to file a challenge. Then we then every municipality uh that had a challenge had
until December 31st to settle all of their lawsuits. >> And there are two challengers. >> Two challengers. >> Separate companies. >> No, there's um there's So there's technically three because there's three parcels. Um I'm sorry. I didn't mean to
take your time. You if you want to ask me to follow up, that's fine. Um there's three there because there's three separate parcels. It's still the same developer. Um they fi I don't know if they filed three separate challenges or not. I like I said I wasn't involved in that. Uh but also fair share housing
center which is an a housing advocate also filed a challenge against the township. >> Same developer ALR1 ALR2 and ALR3. >> Oh the same company. Yes. >> Yes. >> Why does the fair
>> uh fair are they involved at all? They have been involved uh they've been the housing advocate um the the foremost housing advocate across the state since the Mount Laurel doctrine was created. Uh in Mount Laurel 4, the Supreme Court
made them the interested party across the state as far as housing advocates go. So um they are accorded a lot of deference with the court um and they and and particularly within the program. So basically you had to you had to settle
with fairer housing center in order to keep moving in this process. >> Are you losing control of them? >> Uh they have a board but um I will tell you that their former executive director was the state controller under Governor
Murphy. >> Uh several of their attorneys are now in the deputy attorney general's office. >> Okay, >> that's good. You're welcome. I don't mean to. >> I'm just curious. You said that some
point that they voted in trying Great >> that they voted in trying to take home rule away >> from us or you went to some place somewhere taken away was voted upon. Who was it? The Senate, was it Congress or you know our Congress people? Who do we
who did we talk to about this? >> Um though Okay. So to to clarify uh several year it would have I'm going backwards now 2023 uh the league of municipalities that's the convention that all the mun you know municipalities go to um at the I want to say it was a
state planning commission or the affordable housing uh seminar mayor Barakas of of Newark did say that home rule will be no more in the same so we didn't know what that meant at the time then then comes the amendments to the
Fair Housing Act, which are top down uh affordable housing obligations that we now have that all municipalities have to deal with. That was voted on by the state legislature and and and signed into law by Governor Murphy in March of 2024.
>> So, Murphy, >> yeah, >> thank you. Okay. Quick question. Um, so we're going to fight it. Okay. Um, now you said we have to submit a plan. What does that is that a plan as far as development or
number of units? What is that plan that we have to submit? >> Um, so we we already submitted a plan that was in June. >> Okay. >> Um, we had challenges to that plan and then we mediated those challenges which is where we are now. >> Okay. So, as of right now, the only
adopted plan we have is the one from June. >> Okay. And the plan is about how many units? >> Yes. Is how we're going to satisfy the house. >> It doesn't look like, you know, we can avoid this. My thought process is again trying to limit the amount of units. So,
Mr. Mars, you brought up a comment about um the state EDA or EPA is already probably signed off on this. Is there any way that we can get the federal side involved in this? as far as just the departments make it so expensive for
them to develop it because we have extreme circumstances here. We don't have public order. We don't have public sewer and so these are exterminating situations I feel different than a lot of other cities in New Jersey where they have all public services. We don't have
that. So what's the environmental impact on all these new septics? A gentleman brought up the well and what's the impact on our water sources? So if we do that on a federal level and make it so expensive for them that they can't develop here, is that a possibility?
>> I don't know how much jurisdiction the federal the federal system would have over their development other than threatened endangered species and things like that. But as far as sewer and right the sewer and water goes, um the D is very friendly to those who are building affordable housing.
>> That's state though. >> Yes. But that's who would that's who I understand that. I don't know how much the government >> if we're going to fight it. >> Why can't we go to next level up and just make it very difficult for them cuz we're not avoiding this. All says we're not avoiding this but make it so
expensive for them that they just can't build. >> When we try already the Fed declined to hear the case, right? They brought to the federal level and they declined. >> Yes, they declined. >> Well, it's it's pending at the Supreme Court, but I I doubt they'll take it. >> The department like the uh EPA EPA,
things like that. I don't over state over development, >> right? >> I mean, if there's some red >> Well, I know that the general has minimum the states can supersede that minimum, right? >> So, where's the fed on this?
>> They have different >> They don't cross necessarily except maybe for environmental. >> They're not more they're not more strict than the state of New Jersey. >> Usually, >> the federal is the baseline. And you >> EPA, how about environmental organizations? I just want to make it so
hard for them that they just don't want to build here. >> It's hard to do. It's >> okay. >> We'll do our best. How's that? >> You can find some endangered frogs, throw them on there. >> Chuck them in. >> I know. Joke.
>> Just kidding. Just kidding. >> That's a joke. >> Just kidding. >> Joe Frank and 463 Franklin Street. So, basically what I'm hearing is our our boat only has so much leg to stand on. So these sites are pretty much definitely going to be built eventually.
All our fight is is the amount of homes built. >> Is that pretty much the only leg we have is to >> dial down the amount of properties being built on these three sites >> unless they walk away. >> That happen.
>> So these three sites are going to be developed eventually. We just don't know the amount and that's pretty much all we're going to have until the courts decide the outcome >> unless the law changes. >> We got a >> three and a half years, >> right? >> And the way this state votes Democrat
all the time is not going to change. >> Yep. >> So, no problem. I get it. And that's all I needed to know. >> Thank you. >> Thanks. Thank you. >> Guys, good luck. Speak up a little bit. >> I just have one question.
>> You talk about the plans. I've seen no plans. Can we have access to seeing the plans that maybe comments that some people haven't thought of? >> Sure. The um the proposed amended plan that um that Jackie stated was going to
be pulled from the planning board is actually up on the on the public notices on the website. However, that's and that has the prior June plan attached to it. So, you can if you go and look >> on the website. >> Yes. >> No, but if you go if you go to the
website to the public notices page, um there is what's called a supplement on top of it, but the the adopted June 2025 plan is underneath is is in that document. So, you just scroll through it. >> Okay. You're welcome. Okay. A motion to close. Second public
portion. >> Motion to close. >> Second. >> All those in favor? >> I >> uh committee reports. Mike, >> uh since we've been here a long time, I will say no. Let's get moving. >> Mark,
the um library uh has Hoopla available now, which is an online database. If you have a library card, you can go on and check it out. Um, again, we've said this before. We've said this in previous meetings. This
this is not an easy decision to make. And we have all committed to fight this, but at the end of the day, like I said before, fighting comes with a cost. It comes with legal fees. It comes with possible consequences that we're going over with everyone tonight.
And we heard you. And before I heard you, I was told that, you know, my vote depended on what you told me tonight. It it didn't Okay, I'll just let you know that it it did not. I was planning on voting this way before. And again, I appreciate everyone's opinions that you
were coming forward with and everything else. I appreciate it, but didn't depend on that at all. You know, there's just a lot of misinformation um going around online. Um people approaching me saying you know why aren't you handling the the data centers? It was brought up by the
planning board in the master committee in the master plan committee. No it wasn't. Uh this became a pressing issue when Vinland finally got theirs built and it sounded like a low-grade jet engine. That's when this became an issue and we've been talking about it ever since. Ordinances and and you know legal
documents don't get drawn up overnight. Um, I, you know, I ran, as I can attest to everybody up here, ran to keep this town as rural as we can for as long as we can. And I say as long as we can because we are battling the state. Yes, a builder is filing a lawsuit, but we
are battling the state of New Jersey. And you can bring politics in it or you don't have to bring politics into it. Okay? But there's a certain group that's in charge that wants this state to no longer be rural. and we will fight it,
but it's gonna cost us, but we'll fight it for you guys. Okay. Thank Thank you everybody that came out and thank you everybody who stayed. >> Just want to thank everybody for coming. Like I said, it's not a fun process, but it's a good process. It actually makes our job easier. uh starts off the
meeting like we're on trial because there's always the same small group of people that try to attach a conspiracy to everything, but at the end of the day, we're all on the same side on those things. I mean, everything that people the questions you guys ask are the
questions that we have asked. Um uh this one uh lady here had some great questions about senior centers and different things. Matt Finley um was working with Habitat for Humanity and trying to get them to take give them some lots and build. And the big problem
with this is we don't have this size problem. We have this size. So Habitat for Humanity could do what? Four houses a year, possibly. Three. >> Yeah. >> Okay. So we still have like 897. So it it's it's the we have a a 40-year bubble
that we're dealing with. And uh we we agree with you guys. And the only thing harder than being you guys is being up here and and fighting all the conspiracies and still trying to do what you think's right for the people that live here. >> When do we get by? >> What's that? >> When do we get
>> November >> at the ballot? >> Hopefully 10 years from now. The longer the better, right? So let's watch >> every day. >> There are emails not from now. So, thanks again for coming out and uh don't think that uh we don't
appreciate it because you're not you're supporting the town and you're supporting us because we've been fighting this fight. So, >> yeah, Mr. Mayor, um somebody's got >> um I know that's not the popular topic,
but it is an important one. I don't know what's going on with the HVAC system. Also, uh remember that the data cent's um ordinance is going to planning board for discussion. So, if you want to um see what the planning board is talking about that in order to provide back to
this township committee for a vote, then you can go to that board meeting and see what they have to say. Um and just for this affordable housing situation, I mean, I've been up here for 3 years. I was reelected. Thank you uh for reelecting
me everybody. And you know this is my fourth year and this one's me. >> Everybody hear me? >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> For this affordable housing situation. Um I've been up here for this my fourth
year up here. There was things that came down from the DP that said, "If you don't adopt this ordinance, your tree ordinance, then you're going to lose your storm water permits, you're going to lose this, you're going to lose that." And I just I got to a point where I talked to Mr. Marsh yesterday. I
talked to Solicitor, Mr. Vigilante, I think last week, the last time we were in a closed door secret session. I asked uh NY's partner, I said, "What if I just ignore this?" Like I'm so fed up fed up with the state and affordable housing,
the kangaroo court and people coming up and putting a gun in my head and saying if you don't vote this way, this is going to happen. And so that day I made up my mind that I'm just not voting for any of this. And I'd rather not vote for any of this and be pulled out here by the state and kicking and screaming and
yelling at the top of my lungs and have them take over the planning board and build up whatever they're building instead of me just bowing down to the state and voting for everything that they want because I'm just sick and tired of doing that. That's not what this township's about. That's not my values. I'm standing up and fighting for
what I believe in. If the state comes and puts a gun to my head, then they got to pull the trigger. So, I'm not voting for anything for affordable housing. Got my stance coming in. That's my stance going out. >> Thank you, John. Um, real quick, little league had opening day pretty
successful. Good. Um, two weeks do tournament. >> Mike, 25th Warriors, April 25th, Warriors, the rest of the do.
Thank you for coming out. Appreciate it to hear what everyone thought. Kind of had an idea what you thought, >> but now we know. >> But I appreciate you coming out and motion to adjurnn. >> Motion to adjurnn.
>> Second. >> All in favor? Hi. >> It's going to be fun. It smells great. >> Okay. >> Yeah.