Good evening everybody. Welcome to our meeting of the environmental commission. It's called pursuant to the provisions of the open public meetings law. Meeting of October 20 and 25 was included in the list of meetings notice that advertised in our local papers posted on the bullet
board in the municipal building posted on the municipal website and has remained continuously existed as required notices under the statute. the addition of happiness notice is and has been available to the public and is on file in the office of municipal clerk.
Um I'm going to recommend that we um change the order of our agenda this evening since you have like to invite roll. >> Would you like to do the roll call? >> I can do the roll call real quick. Sure.
>> All right. Roll call. Paul Wipsky. Paul's absent day, guys, because he had his great-granddaughter, which is awesome. So, he's really excited about that. Yeah, he's excited. Um, Robin Sudam >> here, >> Walter Andrews, >> Arnold Schmidt here,
>> Perez, Maria Santiago, Ellen Bola, >> Dan Yadox, >> Damn it. I I always try and I'm going to get her. Um, and Council Member Patasnik
is not here. I don't know if he's coming yet. And Ted Chase, which I'm assuming he should be here shortly. He might He was going to try to make it today. >> He said he could make it tonight, but not tomorrow. >> He could make it tonight, not tomorrow. So, yes. So, he should be here shortly. So, >> he said,
>> thank you very much. Turn the floor over to Mike Sabowski from PLA live. Oh, from PLA. My apologies. PLA credential. all got that wrong. It's RLA, which is registered landscape architect.
>> Ah, there we go. >> So, that's after my name. >> Um, I'm here today with uh Derek Chapman. He's my general manager. >> Hello, sir. Come on in. >> I'm sorry.
This is our has been on our commission for years and years and he's a formal former council member as well. >> Okay, you're back. Okay, take it away. So Paul asked us to uh come today and just
share some of the um maintenance techniques that we've been um exploring to help create resilient landscapes for our clients. Uh they're applicable uh to townships, municipalities, etc. So we
started doing uh some of these talks for property managers and uh anyone that takes care of property really. So, um, we'll just get started. Derek, you running those buttons? Yes. So, um, going to talk on a number of
topics today. I combined with help from the team today, taking a couple of our, uh, presentations and and merging them into one. So, you guys get um, a lot of information. If I have to go back or talk about something else um related, I
will. But um mowing height, tree selection, the green difference and every decision is is is super important these days because our climate is changing so quickly. Um to create a sustainable landscape, it takes really
great planning and considerable thought. And we have to reach out to um our educators because as our climate's changing, certain trees and shrubs aren't doing well in our environment anymore. They're migrating out.
Next slide. So adapting to climate change is really part of our focus today. We're going to discuss resilient trees, grass height management, and mulching. This is what uh Paul asked me to kind of run through with you guys. Next slide.
We're going to start with a little um climate change. Um I was in a lecture in January with another landscape architect and he was presenting climatology data that was similar to this slide. We were fortunate to find it. It's not exactly the same slide, but this goes back to
1850. And if anyone had any doubt about climate change or our temperatures getting warmer, all they need to do is to kind of appreciate this slide. Um, yeah, it's a little
scary. Next slide. >> So, we're going to just touch on number one here today. Um, we could talk about water management, planning, uh, risk assessment that goes with assessing your community or your your
your your site to see um, how at risk you are for climate change, supply chain, urban landscapes. These are all separate topics. We're going to talk about one today. Number one. All right. So, what does it mean to be resilient? A resilient landscape can withstand,
recover from, and adopt change environmental conditions including climate related stressors while maintaining essential uh ecological function. Um, and it's all about this resilience cycle. So, it's about
preparing, preventing, maintaining, etc. Next slide. >> So, what makes a landscape resilient? So it's its ability to endure recovering capacity, adaptability, and maintains
essential functions. Long-term perspective considers ongoing climate change. So, what we mean is, yeah, we're still experiencing zone six and maybe zone five in New Jersey, but
what we're getting is extreme heat for a number of days or weeks, extreme dry conditions for weeks, and then followed by massive amounts of wet rain, etc. So, we're getting these really severe swings
in our weather. And as a result, we're asking our plant material to kind of endure and almost thrive in that situation. And it's not just it's not just um trees, it's shrubs as well. It's also our lawns. It's basically
everything is has to endure these massive swings in in temperature and and wet and dry, etc. Next slide. So I could go into each one of these trees, but that's different presentation. But this is your general
list of what we're considering resilient trees. And at the end of the presentation, I'll just click through. A lot of these slides are from Rucker's professors um and Penn State and Maryland. And so
you'll see all those resources at the end of the slides. But um swamp white oak was the one that they used at the memorial for 9/11 in New York City. Those trees were picked um over well decades ago now when they did the
memorial because of their resistant their their ability to be resilient to our climate. Unfortunately, trees like red oak and our oaks, which is our state tree, red oak is now has BLS, which is bacteria leaf scorch. Um and some of our
our most venom trees are are leaving the area. H cornis, Florida, which is common dogwood, is migrating out of the state of New Jersey. It's moving north and west. As well as one that I visited um in August when I went to a wedding in
Vermont, white birch. Uh it was nice to see white birch again. I haven't seen white birch in about 30 years. So um unfortunately can't handle our summers anymore. >> I'll just interrupt for a quick second. Franklin High School, class of 73, just
planted a swamp white oak at Franklin High. We had a dedication the other day. So when you go by, look to the right of the high school. That's a swamp white oak. Well done. >> Well done. That one will be around for a while. >> Uh, next slide.
>> So just a note on pear trees. It was overpop populated. um overplanted rather, excuse me, not overpop populated, but it has populated since. Um it's it creates these thorn thorny thickets in our in our native
areas and now is on the invasive species list. Unfortunately, it's also on the resilient list because it can handle pretty much anything. Um but it's not one you want to be planting. So, there are a couple good varieties. Um,
Shannlair was a cultivar from Princeton un uh from Princeton Nurseries. It's now called Cleveland or Cleveland Select. It's pretty good. It's got a nice habit. Stays um where it needs to. Doesn't break. It's not weak wooded like Bradford or even Aristocrat. So, you can
use these trees if you had to. Um but I I don't recommend it um recommend it going forward. Yeah. So just diversity. So it's really important to evaluate the existing trees that you do have on a particular site or
in a township. And if you have a tremendous amount of maples, 60 or 70% of October glories per se, you want to increase u biodiversity. So you might add Glidditzia, you might add London
plane. So doing a, you know, a survey of what you do have would be very important to creating a resilient score within your own community um and non-invasive species and and they should be removed. Um there should be a
plan in place to remove those invasive species and then go in with resilient trees. And then also not mentioned here, but pruning is in pruning is really essentially important for young trees.
Um, and you may want to prune 3 to 5 years after being planted. Corrective pruning really helps those trees. Next slide. All right. Grass. um you know you guys are uh I don't know
the exact role of your committee but with that said we're we're finding that um grass height is very important and we're going to talk about that in a second but you can really reduce the amount of pesticides that you're putting
on a particular site just by good mowing practices. So, next slide. Got a little tweaking here. So, what we don't realize is grass is really just um a plant as well, right? We kind of look at long. We don't consider a plant. We
call it turf. Um but it's it's photosynthesizing. And if we if we cut the grass too short, oh, go back a slide. Did I mess up? An important Sorry. Cutting grass too short damage your lawn and creates more problems. So, we're going to go into that. Sorry. Okay.
So, the blades aren't really solar panels, you know, for the plant itself. And the longer the grass height, the better it is. Now, I understand, you know, when we have playing fields for soccer or football or what have you,
that grass wants to be maintained at a certain height. But there's ways to get it there. Um, we just helped um, PEX school get their uh, field down to three inches. But that has to be done over time. And you have to take only a little
bit of that grass blade off at a time. Less than a/4 inch if you can do it, but a quarter of an inch each time to get it to a sustainable height. Um, and there it is. Cutting more than a third of the blade removes over half the plant's photosynthesis capacity, which is not
good. Taller the glass blade provides more surface area for photosynthesis producing more energy for healthy growth. When you cut it too short, you remove the plant's ability to produce energy and food. Uh, next slide.
Polar grass deeper strong root system. Blonds maintained at 3 in have more robust root systems than those at inch and a half. >> This is super super important. Uh, cutting too short allows that soil to heat up, get hot, invites all kinds of
erosion issues, invites weeds. I think we have that on the next slide. Penn State increased mowing height alone reduces weed pressure significantly. North Carolina tall fescue mode at
different heights showed 1 in height 95% crab grass cover 4 in zero. So we can reduce a lot of pesticides just by better mowing practices. Longer grass blades act as a natural
barrier reducing soil evaporation. Taller grass blades are shades the soil keeping roots cool during hot weather requires less irrigation. And then of course taller grass creates shade that prevents weed seed germination.
So we have to ask ourselves are we kind of shooting ourselves in the foot by the way that we're kind of maintaining our properties. Next slide. Okay. So also when we cut too short we get scalping
exposes soil roots to direct sunlight creates stress that weakens the entire plant leads to shallow root development and reduces drought tolerance. And we all know what it looks like when we scalp. Brown um patches appear on grazing grass blades makes more
susceptible to insect disease and beads. Next slide. I also threw this in here um just today. This is an interesting phenomena that we have. So again, 30 years ago um when my
father was planting the white birch in the yard, he was putting down pine fescue in the grass. Um pine fescue no longer likes New Jersey, but it's all over the place. And it looks like this in the summer. It just turns brown. And
if you have other gr grass blends like top right of that slide might be some Kentucky and some tall fescue. Um but when you have fine fescue mixed in, you might be like what's what's going on here? And fine fescue just doesn't like our our the amount of rain we get when
How many how many inches of rain do we have in May, Derek? >> Seven. >> Seven. Seven inches. Oh, it's Here it is. Thank you, Milo. um fifth wetest May since 1895. So when you have that kind of amount of
rain, um it doesn't allow the root systems to grow. It lays down, it kind of melts away basically. And so you might have a healthy lawn and then you're, you know, you're not thinking it's the fine fescue not tolerating our climate and all of a sudden you're
putting down pesticides, you're overwatering, you're trying to get this grass brown again. And it's exactly the wrong thing to do. What needs to happen here is you need to overseed with tall uh fescues and get rid of that fine
fescue. So this is just some causes of what happens. Improper mowing, excessive moisture from heavy rain field, heat and drought stress, just fine fiscu can't can't handle it, doesn't like it. Next slide.
All right, this is one of my favorite topics and it's going on everywhere. Um, if we want to stress out trees and plants, the number one thing to do is mulch them the wrong way. So mulch volcano everyone is probably in this
>> in this table familiar with the concept of mulch volcano. So there's the slide. Um there's the you know mulch can be really beneficial to trees if it's done correctly. We're
going to talk about that in a second. All right. But what does too much mulch do? bark damage, root issues, water problems, soil imbalance, pest and disease risks, and then aesthetic concerns. And next slide.
All right, here's a um site that we're kind of going through and fixing. On the left, you can see the years and years of just over mulching. And what's going on here? The community loves their black mulch. They
want to see it every spring. And as a result, they're starting to kill their trees. As a result, um they had to hire us to take it away. And on the right hand side, you can see that this oak tree really these are this is a correct
mulching pattern. Uh that's the radial roots coming out. Um no major issues here. The tree was mature enough before it started being overmuled. You can see um how much was up on this caliber though. the change in the park over
time. Can that rot the bark and create all kinds of issues? Yeah, we're going to see that. So, this is our concern. We want to avoid these trees that, you know, we just planted, you know, this swamp white oak
in a park or a community, but then the maintenance guys are overmulging it. And then just as the tree gets to maturity and starts to impact the site just the way we want, it falls over because we overmulged it for 20 years. And we have a girdling root, which the next slide.
So there's the root. This guy right here went all the way around and began to choke that tree. And then this happened to be a pine, but it's same thing. stiff wind comes by and takes out the tree it just felt blew
right over. Uh over mulching can also happen at shrubs. Um yeah, this is you see these holl here. Um there's various areas where they're fine, but they begin to
stress out. Um this is too much mulch. You can see you can't see the base of the plant here. is having a is having a severe problem transpiring and then what happens? It it stresses itself out. Um cannot photosynthesize, cannot fight off
disease and insect. We get a phone call that says that the plant is dying and it's got bugs on it or it's losing its leaves and we're being blamed because we didn't put some sort of pesticide down. and another um company might start
spraying this plant with pesticides, herbicides, whatever, or over or watering it when the fact is it just has too much mulch on it. So this is what proper mulching looks like.
A lot of fine fescue, right guys? Next slide. >> All right, so these are these are fun. these slides. So, I get this all the time. Here's a community uh not far from here and uh
>> Go ahead. >> It's unbelievable. >> Yeah, we just >> Oh, he might. Go ahead. >> So, this was us rescuing these trees. Ow. What?
[Music] Cutting that cutting that root won't have any impact on the growth of the tree. The tree has a huge root system. Jeez. Yeah. If you see that root now, so what happens is when you're over mulching,
right? The tree up the up this top of the caliper starts throwing out fibers because it needs to transpire. It needs to breathe. It needs nutrients. And the only way to get them is to go higher up on the caliper and then those uh fibrous
roots here grow into real woody roots and then start to choke the trees out. Um but this is this is nice. Now you got that flare coming away. Nice positioning of those roots just like in that open.
>> No, that's it. So informed choices. Got to when you're planting, you got to pick the right trees and shrubs because that's a big thing these days. We have deer. We have
to be cognizant of that. Proper mowing. Um we can really cut down on pesticides and herbicides and how much we have to water. If we're if we're about to go into a period of, you know, high 90s for a week or 10 days, stand
the mowing crews down. Don't let them don't let them m leave those lawns high. Let them deal with cutting the grass after the rain starts again and temperatures come back down, then they can cut the grass. And then
obviously with the mulch, you know, I can't emphasize enough, you're doing more harm than good. One little one in these guys get out there and they're working and they just want to dump, you know, wheelbarl mulch right on the caliber of the tree. And unfortunately, it's extremely dangerous.
Um, so yeah, it's just better maintenance practices, better decisions upstream, and you'll have healthier, more resilient landscapes that are are sustainable. >> That's it for us, I think.
>> Great. That's good. Real quick, >> yeah, I just want questions for Mike. >> Just want to show you some sources. Go ahead, click through real quick. Just that we're not pulling this. I mean, obviously this is common sense to us, but it's not so common that there's articles out there on this stuff. So,
it's >> like maybe if you can send those to Tara, she can distribute it to the commission. >> That would be great because we we overlap with open space committee. We overlap with shade tree commission. So, we can help resources. >> Yeah. >> Can I ask any questions for him?
>> What is the recommended height for the grass? You only made reference to one third, but the >> I ideally you're at 4 in. >> That's what I Okay. Yeah. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> I know you're playing fields, that's
really hard to do, you know, but again, if the field hasn't been mowed in months and someone goes out there and cuts it right at play height, that's very damaging to the plant. Should be brought down incrementally. So, I mean, I don't, you know, again, as high as you possibly
can leave it. And if we're going into a period of high heat, don't cut it. Let it get higher. >> Public works could benefit from this. >> That's what I was just going to ask. The question I have is, have you presented to other departments of public works or
anyone like that in the past? >> So, we have not done a public works yet. Most of most of this is for education for managers that ma maintain. Got it. >> Hondao, HOA, COA are corporate sites because in their specifications, we're
seeing a lot of these um specs that are actually damaging their landscape. And then they have like, let's mulch every year. We want to mulch every year. And then all of a sudden, we're starting to see the trees stress out and we're wondering why the trees are dying. Well, they're dying from girdling roots. So, we've been
trying to educate um the managers and the decision makers, boards like yourselves, on practices that are more sustainable. And by the way, saving saving our clients money while we're at it. We're happy to come
back and talk to the, you know, the guys that do >> public works maintains a lot of acorage around here. >> They do. Yeah. I mean, it's definitely something that we can forge them or or if you want to talk to them, for sure. But it's like I think some of the practices like the mul volcano that you were talking about I think that is just
like common place and it it's just a change in education like you said you know I mean even keeping the grass at 4 in high that would probably save them a ton of time. >> Go ahead. >> In New Jersey turf grass
again a lot of people want it to look like that. I mean, it's different with parks and things where again 4 in for a homeowner is going to seem high, but I like keeping my grass at 4 in cuz I don't have to water. It's great. >> Once you get used to it, >> once you get used to it, communities are like we, you know, we get specs that say
they want to cut it 2 and 1/2 in. >> That's a soccer field, which I do understand. Um, but you know, there can be those times where, and I'm not, you know, with public works in the fields, um, where over the summer it's maybe not
used as much. It's a fall and then a spring. >> Let it rest over the summer. Just literally let it rest. It can go to 6 in, but then you got to make sure that before soccer starts, you start mowing a month ahead of time to this to this to this to this and step it down. It's not
a But you gave it time to rest as well. >> What about over the winter? >> So, it's interesting. We're actually doing some work right now on um snow mold. So, one of the few arguments around cutting your grass short going
into the winter is prevention of snow mold, but if you don't get snow, you know, then you're not going to have snow mold. Yeah. >> So, um, but we do lower our our blades when the temperatures permit, so you get
that nice clean look throughout the winter, which is fine. And it also prevents snow mold from occurring. And snow molds is a rare I mean, that's piles of snow sitting on an area of lawn till like April 15th, then, you know.
So, but with that said, we do lower our blades um going into the fall because also conditions improve, right? Like the weather, this is perfect for our cool season grasses right now. It's 40° in the morning, there's dew, we're getting rain. You can cut the grass short now.
It's okay. It'll handle it. But don't do it in July. >> Don't do it in June. >> The other the other thing for your fields would be to make sure that there's a good aeration seating program. every year on any athletic field has to be done. If you're not doing it, you
know, at your homes, I'd every other year. Sure. Athletic fields have to be, especially cuz they're played on things like that. If you let them go, um, speaking from personal experience with my son right now, uh, playing on a field that has been like, oh, it's not it's
not good. >> So, again, I'm not on the environmental side as well. >> So, they know, hey, treat it a certain way. So it it is safe for them. >> Got it. >> The town as well. So >> um you were talking about education and
property managers. I was on my board for over 16 years. >> Property for you. >> I know. >> Property managers do what the board wants because that's the way the money flows. So I mean money, it's always
about money. Landscapers, they'll do what the client wants to get the money. And if they do more to the lawn, they'll get more money. It's like I think we need broad-based education. You know, definitely homeowners, but not just property managers, landscapers. Is there
a certification program or whatever that this would be included? >> So, there is certification for landscape contractors and our organizations. Some of them, you know, provide this kind of education. But to your point, like you
know, we've been doing this combined in this room's probably 50 to 60 years of experience uh between Derek and I, but you know, when you become our client, we'll tell you what we're doing. Like we >> Not everybody does that.
>> Not everybody does that. We're not going to overmulge a community. we'll tell them, listen, we'll give you a credit on the mulch and we'll take your existing mulch off and we'll work through that and and those are the kind of clients that we want to work with. But with that
said, um we have gone and and they've gotten, you know, killed from their from their homeowners, right? So then we go and we'll have this presentation to the homeowners and so that we educate the homeowner base. they understand, hey,
we're not cutting the grass at 2 in. We're not overmuling. We're we're doing corrective pruning so that you know that the trees that are on site, we're protecting them. We're making them more resilient to storms, etc. So, it's a
comprehensive approach. >> I mean, you're tackling, I think, a big project. You're you want to change people's perspective. Changing people's thinking is not always easy. You got to keep at it. I mean, I worked at the safety office at Rutgers trying to get
them to accept, oh, all accidents are preventable. They didn't like that. But if you're thinking, I want to prevent accidents, that's your context, and you change your behavior. So, if we can get people to think, you know, an emerald green lawn maybe isn't the best, the
super trimmed lawn maybe isn't the best, the mulch volcanoes isn't the best, it's going to take time. Thank you for your time and effort. >> Yeah, I appreciate that. >> We can we can show our gratitude to them by offering to run an education program. >> Yeah, absolutely.
>> Come and speak. >> We can invite individual homeowners, but many of us may know people on boards of some of these communities. >> We invite them. >> Yes. >> As well, >> so that they get the benefit of this. And even if we don't get people on the
board, we get vocal homeowners in those associations who can get to them. >> And we could do it ongoing. I mean, honestly, the mulch volcano presentation is almost 30 minutes by itself. I gave you a little taste today. So, if you wanted to do it in pieces, you know, we could do resilient trees, we could do
mulch volcanoes. I mean, mulch volcanoes for the average homeowner seems to be the the main culprit. And then of course it's the grassite because they're also as soon as they see brown out there they're overwatering and maybe it was fungus or maybe so those two key things
would be helpful. And every time you know a homeowner overwaters their lawn that's bad for the climate. Every time they put more pesticides down or herbicides that's bad for the environment. So if we can start to educate and we can reduce these
non-point sources, then we can be more sustainable in our own neighborhoods. >> Mike, what town is your firm in? >> So um our office is in Edison. >> Edison. >> Edison. Okay. >> Our headquarters in Edison. Yeah. service. >> I just want to say that we we do have a
program here and uh for the four seasons we are running a uh campaign called save the mo till earth day. It's more about pollinators but it has a lot to do with the lawn. But what what we uh command uh
or recommend our residents is to skip the mole until about day. It used to be known as a no more May, but that started somewhere else in cool climate. What we figured here that, you know, not mowing
in May, it's kind of too late. All the pollinators are already woken up and and in May, you're just spreading pollen. So, uh we recommend skipping the mowing until Earth Day. And yes, the grassh
grows higher. It is uneven because uh the previous mowing was in in the fall, right? So So there are sections of lawn where you 4 in, but there could be sections where you have 12, right? Well, it typically doesn't go that far, but um
uh and it helps uh in this idea of having um a higher grass. We also emphasize that you know in order to support pollinators we want to have diverse uh culture as opposed to
monoculture. So we we advise people it's it's all about like you know save yourself time save yourself money you know. So do not mow until or they do not apply the pesticides and and we also make a comment about the irrigation
because uh you know the the native uh uh plants they don't need as much irrigation. So you save on water and just money in the end. So, so we have that program in in spring uh save the mo till earth day and then then in the fall
we have leave the leaves but you know >> I mean we're you know we don't necessarily mention here in our we have multiple the the turf one is also another maybe 20 minute presentation just turf and things like that >> and we mulch all of our grass as well as
compared to bagging so you can fertilize less and things like that. I love your the idea that April the the no mo and tow because you're gonna see I'm right fescue uh blueg grass takes forever to wake up and then you got fescue that is 4 in 5 in and then you have ry grass
that's yellow and people are like oh you didn't mow it's it's uneven. It's like no we already started at 4 in but this is only woken up at two inches still >> from the from the fall. Um so it it's just again it's in one of our other presentations between that and
actually now um speaking with you in in the fall we probably have to uh create one around mulching leaves as well because that should be a very common practice. >> I have a question. It's like um do you remove the grass cutings from the
property or do you >> No, you want to mulch them back in. >> You mulch them back in. >> You want to mulch them back in. So, >> why is everybody collecting grass clippings when they should be? Yeah, >> you you should you should be, you know, recharging that nitrogen right back to
the turf. Plus, it's just a hazardous waste at this point to get rid of. You can't >> you can't get rid of it in New Jersey. I mean, it's it's chemically treated. >> Yes, >> it's a waste. It's a hazardous waste technically. >> I would disagree with one thing that you
said about um residents are the main culprit of most volcanoes. Go to a Home Depot. >> Yeah. >> If you go to Home Depot, I'm thinking about the one in Bridgewater. The multi volcanoes are like this high.
>> So, so are you saying, you know, landscapers are the culprit? >> I'm saying whoever does it at Home Depot, >> Home Depot setting up. Well, he does the the trees on the home. >> There at times, you know, a low bid situation where
>> again that guy has his contract and to your point earlier >> and he says, "If I don't mulch this, I'm not going to get paid by Home Depot." So, he mulches it, so he doesn't care. And we've looked the other way. We're like, "Hey, save some money and do do something else. Remove it. Save your trees." Home Depot is
>> No doubt about it. >> Like Home Depot. >> More education in our industry would be helpful. I mean, these guys in some cases are cutting the grass. They're they don't have a contract, per se, where they're paid over 9 months or over 12 months. So, they're paid per cut. And
some people are very frugal. So, what do they do? They want to go out and cut every week when in July and August, they shouldn't be cutting or cutting every third week or every other week because they want the revenue. So, there's a lot of, you know, >> money, money,
>> money >> and misinformation >> and misinformation. Yeah, >> I think we have time for one more question and uh we >> I just had one if if you don't mind if that's all right. Um so RDPW there and this is you know they've been instructed to do this. So every in the summer
especially they're just on a rotating mowing schedule with our properties every two weeks. It's like every two weeks they go out and mow. So what's your So you kind of just answered it right now, but um basically like for us to make this recommendation to the township, we also don't want residents
on the other hand being upset that the grass is too high. So in the summer like at a park, not the soccer fields like the park. What is like a good mowing schedule? >> Well, it's weather dependent. >> So they should But that's what I'm saying. So it shouldn't just be like
every 2 to 3 weeks, boom. So, so like your your schools in the summer, leave them alone. >> Like don't cut them. >> You don't need to go there, >> right? >> Like they're not using those fields. Let them grow. Let them get long. So maybe
every second or third week they're cutting them. Save the effort. Save the energy. Save the gasoline and let those fields grow. the parks if it's, you know, if if we're in a hot dry, again, I said that earlier, if if we're looking at the forecast and we're headed to 90
degree plus heating days and we're looking at 10 days in a row, then stop mowing. Like, do not go out there and then do not cut in that heat >> because you can actually damage the blade of the grass either with the um
tire or with the blade with the mower blades. So there's some really careful consideration that has to go into it and a lot of that unfortunately is around um is around the weather and also we're getting tremendous amounts of rain in
like we did in May. Don't cut >> because you do damage when you you rut lawn areas. I was at a and unfortunately was in Addison. I was at a 9/11 memorial and it had been raining raining raining and here comes 9/11 and they wanted to
come and they went out there and completely damaged the area where the memorial was. The turf was destroyed >> and now they've got grounds crews bringing bales of hay out >> so people can stand there for the 9/11 memorial
>> ceremony that was at night. Yeah. Yeah. >> But this is just like common sense, but it's not it just takes a little bit of >> Right. That's a really good point because so basically because they're on this rotating schedule. I think it's just cuz it's always been that way.
>> But someone but someone needs to educate them to say, you know what, we need someone here to look at the weather forecast for the next 10 days and and maybe make the decision based on that. And that's okay. It doesn't have to just be two weeks and I go, two weeks and I go, you know, It would be nice if we
could encourage the superintendent of schools and the township manager to hold an education session. Let these guys come in and buildings and grounds >> at the board of ed and and talk about this. I mean, they like to think they're
professionals, so it's a chance to engage in a conversation, not to be lectured to, but to engage in a conversation and then might show up. >> I mean, this year was tough. Honestly, the weather this year was just not and the grass never got to a point you're, you know, this year for example. Yeah,
they probably had to go every two weeks. >> Just the way that it was also terrible. Last was >> well, last year got dry like it was supposed to. This year it never really stopped raining. So, the spring growth never really slowed down until
August, which doesn't happen. The grass is really still growing in July. So again, back to the dependent, it's almost, >> you know, we have a digital whiteboard where it's constantly changing on the schedule. I know townships maybe not as feasible, but
>> um in terms of there's savings involved with it and again, >> I really like that. Yeah. Okay. >> It just has to be fluid. It just can't be on a board, >> but a little bit more, >> you know, finesse around what we're doing. >> Intentionality.
>> Yeah. and and consider the consequences. Like I think that's part of it is that we're not considering the consequences to our actions whether it's even cutting too low, over mulching, overwatering, underwatering
>> and also the cost >> and the cost associated with that. Yeah. >> The long-term costs are to correct to the sustainability of our landscapes and capital expense down the road. You go through a park, we we
picked all the wrong trees and we have a severe storm and all the trees are damaged beyond repair. You can't put a price on that, >> right? >> By the way, how isus doing in context of the climate change? >> How is
>> uh Altisima? This is the Atlantis. >> Tree of Yeah. tree of heaven. >> Um well, tree of heaven, you know, is pretty resilient. So, um, >> yeah, is she with tri
that one anywhere and grew is one of my favorites for fall color. >> Shall we? I think we should move on so we can get to the rest of our >> Yes. Thank you. Appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you. You pull it out. Yeah, you're good that way. Yeah. It was
nice meeting you. Thanks for coming. I'll be in touch again. >> Yeah. Well, I figured it was life. >> That would be great. Thank you so much. Yeah, this is great. >> Wonderful. >> I was nowhere near the landscape
area of curriculum, but I can remember him. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Volcano. >> Oh, yeah. Really interesting. >> Yeah. I'm going to pick up the torch now for that. >> Thank you very much.
That was really super interesting. >> Thank you, Paul Witzky for >> I know, >> but I would like to have them back for sure because I think the one thing is like even like I wrote in my notes our ordinance I have to look even and see. I think our ordinance is three I want to
say it's 3 in for property owners for grass height. I'm pretty sure I have to look and see. I mean there's so many things that he brought up. The mowing schedule is is a big one. So yeah, >> I think it would be great for the DPW to hear this. >> I agree 100%. Yeah, because if they
understand that, that's the thing. They have to put a little planning into and this is not their fault. They've been told this to do this every two weeks. So they're they're following what they've been told, but if they are given the the if they're given the range too to make the decision based I think that there are definitely people there that can do
that. Absolutely. Look at look at the board of ed how many properties and the amount the board of ed has throughout the township. I think if we can get them >> I agree if we can't get them together then we tried for two but I >> I agree it can't hurt them to bounce ideas off of each other anyway.
>> I think it's great. Yeah. >> Shall we move on? >> Yes. Before we move on real quick, Robin, this is Javon. Javon. This is Robin. She wasn't here last time. So Javon volunteer. He's a volunteer with our commission now. >> Welcome. um he uh wanted to volunteer for the energy and infrastructure
committee and now he's kind of just coming and seeing what he's interested in and yeah it's been great. Yeah, I I like >> you nicely. He's >> I like the I I like like the presentation. It was interesting. >> Very Yeah. >> While while he was speaking, I was
thinking like >> um what do you know what exactly our grass loans go to and >> I don't know exactly where it goes to to be honest with you. I really don't. I can definitely find it out, but I'm not really 100% sure. I've never asked. Like
when you when he was speaking about the grass clippings, I just like Google like what can we do with grass clippings whether it goes into compost or wherever it goes but you can immediately recycle that into like >> it hasn't been too treated. >> Right. >> Right. Yeah.
>> I don't think the DPW bags grass clipping. I think they just >> cut it and let it lay. >> They do. Yeah. And then as far as as far as residents are concerned, you know, if they do it themselves or they have
landscapers, um it's all individual choice. >> Landscapers need to be educated. >> Well, I I think we can move on. Nice to have you. >> That was interesting. >> Um since we don't have a poll, I guess the report from the commission chair is
that Sarah is born. >> Yes. Yes. the great great granddaughter. So sweet. >> Um, everybody has a copy of the minutes from October 6th that Ted was kind enough to put together and read like any comments or suggestions. [Music]
>> I'll make a motion to approve. >> A second. >> Any discussion? All those in favor? >> I. >> Anyone opposed? >> Yes. >> Thank you. Minutes are approved. Um, public comment. I don't think we
have any public here today. >> Move to open to the public. >> Second. >> All in favor? >> Seeing the public would technically be the public. >> Javon would be public. >> Bill B.
>> Any comment from the public? >> Are you guys? >> Yeah, I think so. >> Hearing no comment from the public. Would someone like to make a motion that we close the public? >> Move we close the public. >> Second. >> Second. All in favor? >> I
correspondents. Do we know if we get any correspondence? >> We do have some correspondence. So, let me go to this correspondence first. Um Jolyn Maloney from the lower Ritan Watershed Group uh sent us some free
flyers for free training opportunities. One Oh, that one passed. Okay, this is the one is an in-person uh it's on conservation landscaping training, funny enough. Um, and there's some in-person options October 22nd, October 25th,
October 29th. There's a flyer and a QR code. Um, I will forward this around if anyone is interested. That's the first one. The second one is is we received an email from Ted. I'm going to ask for your help. Lisa Capsic Capsicilus.
Capsicilos. Yes. Okay. Lisa is uh she lives on 45 County Route 18. Her neighbor, she had come complained before they were putting the caution tape out around the property. Uh she wanted to let us know that she reached out to originally she
had reached out to NJP the war hotline and they basically told her there's nothing we can do about it. She wanted to let us know that they told her the mapped areas, deciduous wooded wetlands, which we knew cuz we mapped that ourselves. Um there's also research that
suggests that there's endangered species present, notably the barred owl. Um so basically she she's saying that um because of that she believes that the owners have to get permits to remove any vegetation growing on the property. I
don't think that's 100% true, but I can't say for certain. I don't think to remove any vegetation. Also, the the threatened endangered species hasn't been delineated officially. Um, and neither has the boundaries of the wetlands. So, basically, again, she's
asking us to please tell them that they cannot remove any vegetation and that they can't put up this caution tape, which I brought this to the zoning officer before and they basically said they're not removing any vegetation. They she believes that they're marking
trees to be removed, but nothing has been removed. So, at this point, there's really nothing we can do. and D basically said there's nothing they can do. They did just let her know that the areas defined on GIS as deciduous wood and wetlands.
So that's the latest correspondence. >> Do we have to answer her question? >> We can answer her. I have answered her last time and told her the same, you know, situation, but I can write back and say presented it again today and, you know, we appreciate your input, but
and if they do remove a vegetation or they start, you know, we can send the zoning officer out there, but right now there's they're not in violation of anything cuz they haven't done anything yet. So, >> well, I should think it would be that if they remove
wetland plants from delineated wetlands. That would be a no no. But correct. What was not wetlands are not going to have any limitations. >> Right. Right. >> I mean, the township has some limitations on removing trees. >> Of course. Yeah. Absolutely. The main
situation is that they really haven't removed them yet. So, it's like going on the thought that they may remove them. plant trees that are on their property and they are not part of wetland, they can remove them, right? >> Well, there's a tree removal ordinance.
>> Yes. Yeah. So, they have like the ordinance with that. >> I thought that uh for residents it doesn't apply. >> I think after you remove a certain amount or from a certain like percentage of your property, you you do have to comply. >> Not just removing like one tree. I don't think
>> it can look for it later if you have some repair res. Um, >> okay. I can Yeah, that's all. Let me just double check and make sure I didn't miss anything. Uh, that one, that one, and not that one. Okay, that's it for
correspondence. >> Could you be kind enough to send Mike and Derek a thank you note from us? >> Yes, absolutely. very nice >> outgoing correspondence. >> Um, site plan applications. Did we have any?
>> We have one. Um, and it's brief. So, it is uh I'm sure I'm going to mess this up, but it's got my glasses on first. Actually, it's >> The Kumar uh go.
>> Okay. So, this is the site plan. It is at 21 Highland Avenue in Somerset. Um, this is they're seeking relief of a condition of an already approved application. So, in July of 2023, they received
approval from the zoning board of adjustment for the project, which is a two-story addition and garage um to the residential property. Uh, it included an allowance to exceed the height limitation in the RS 7 zone, which is 35 ft. Um it was later noted that the
architect erroneously stated that the height would exceed the limitation but in actuality it does not. It's only 33.5 ft. So the applicant is seeking relief from this condition because the structure conforms. So when I saw that I'm like well why does they're below it
so who cares? But then when I went through the architect's letter I noticed okay there I think the architect is also saying there are some other minor modifications that have to be looked at right. So, um, let me scroll down here. So, the EV make ready doesn't apply. The
solar warehouse doesn't. They're not removing any trees. Um, the buffering, when I looked at it, I recommend more vegetative buffering. I'll show you in a minute why, but they're not really taking down any trees. Um, here's one of the things that changed. So, the
impervious coverage on the property is reduced by about 3% from the existing conditions. So there's no new storm water management required. However, the application that was approved approved 783 square ft for the footprint. The new
structure is 821.55 square ft. >> So it doesn't require storm water management, but this is the reason I think that they're submitting this cuz there is an increase in the footprint. Um not a they don't exceed impervious coverage, but there is a minor increase.
um the previous application of building area of 630 ft 3 ft now it's 644 ft. So again very minor but a small difference here there's an increase of 49.55 ft to the total building footprint. So
that's all the buildings. So it went from 1416 to 1465. And then the last thing here is that the previous application this is lot coverage. So this is different than impervious coverage. lot coverage. How much of the lot is covered by buildings
footprint? Um, it was 19.63 ft which was approved. Now it's up to 19.83 ft. They're still below the 20%. >> Feet, >> I'm sorry. >> Percent, not feet. >> Percent. Yes, they're still below the allowable 20%. However, here we go. The
previous application approved an imperous coverage of 30.74%. Right? The updated imperous coverage is now 34.96%. So they still exceed the impervious coverage but they have gone up where
previously they were below. So I think that is really the main trigger. So again my response is we have a blurb in place now that's standard that basically say we want you to meet the impervious coverage limit which is 30%. And so I recommended doing that and I also
recommended green or cool roof green or cool roof or solar on the new addition and garage. Um so that's >> the buffer. >> And the buffer I did say a little bit more buffer. I don't know. I think maybe I was being a little over the top, but
maybe not. Let me show you the plans. Um so it's a residential property. Wrong one here. Okay. And this thing is like so huge. Here, let me back it up a little. All right. So, basically, you can see the residential property is
here. Here's where they're doing the two and a half story addition, which does comply with the height now. Um, and we have a proposed garage over here. And then I can show you an aerial. I just got to pull it up here. Uh, this is just lighting.
That is one thing actually that we should recommend now that I think about it. When we went to the ANJ conference, I went to one session from dark skies and it was all about like how the shielded lighting we should put that in there too. The shielded lighting >> and pass our new ordinance >> and yes that we should require even
though it's a residential shielded lighting. >> Thank you. >> I think that's important. Okay. >> Is shielded lighting cut off lighting the same thing? >> Um I don't know. The shielded lighting is basically has like it focuses the light downward. Yeah.
>> I don't know if that is that the same thing. >> I think it is. Yeah. >> Okay. Too busy. Paul would know that's like his specialty. Do you want to see the map of the property or is anyone >> It's up to you guys. I can pull it up pretty easily. >> Yes. >> You said it needs more buffer.
>> I think it might need I mean I don't know. I could again maybe >> to see how far is it from Hamilton Street and stuff. >> Okay. Let me get the 21. >> When you say buffer, you're talking about aesthetic buffer between one property and the other. >> Yeah. Vegetative buffer. Yes. Uh
>> 2100. >> Okay. 21. >> So is there a requirement about that? >> Um there is a buffering requirement. Um and they do meet it. But again, I think it's like, you know, I I'll show you
where it's located. What do we get in return? >> Right. So here's the property itself. Let's just get this off of here so you can actually see it. Okay. Here's the property itself. So, here's the existing house, right? And the the um twotory,
two and a half story edition is going back here and the proposed garage is going over here in this open space. Right here is someone's house and pool. I mean, there's someone right back here. There's not many trees in this area. So, I thought maybe like putting a little vegetative buffer around here would be
>> going up a story and a half. That's >> yeah, >> it's going to be an impact on I didn't I didn't realize there's a a buff on residential property that there's a buffering requirement. >> There's buffering requirements. >> Setbacks. >> There is a setback. You do have to
buffer your property. And I don't know what it is off the top of my head. I can look it up. But there you do have to am I right in saying this, Ted? You have to buffer your property when you're doing like a height edition. >> Oh, when you're doing a height edition. >> Yes. Yes. Now, it's now from my understanding, I
have to look through and see exactly what it is. Um, I'm thinking they should put a buffer all around this side. That's probably not required, but I think it's a recommendation we can make and it adds some greenery in there. And if they don't have to do it, it's, you know, >> and it helps with the impervious cover
>> and it would help with definitely help them bring down the impervious cover. That's one way we can do it is I can put in the impervious cover blurb that we do. I can say like I always say like adding pvious pavement, reducing the footprint size and I can add in like you know adding more tree buffer. I could
say that way. >> Okay. >> But that's it. That's all we had this month. >> Great. >> Yeah. Which is nice. >> Under new business. >> When you're ready to change astronomy club and Dark Skies International.
>> Okay. Yes. So, there are two um new co-presidents of the astronomy club. Um so, we're used to working with Zach Lickman and he moved. Um so, now we have Mike Hammer and Ron Uraod. Um and they are so they're the co-presidents. They
wanted to meet with me really from the open space perspective. So, we met last week, but while I was talking to them, we did talk about dark skies because I was telling them that the environmental commission is really interested in our zone in our lighting ordinance and amending it to comply with dark skies
and they are all about that. They definitely want to partner with us. Um, their main goal at this point is they want to get a lot more observation nights at the John Clyde Memorial Native Grasslands Preserve. So, that's something they're working on through the open space perspective. One cool thing I thought that they want to do and I'm
going to talk about it at open space tomorrow and there's no plans in place. They literally just said this off the top, but you know how we have like a bird blind at negoti. You can make an observation blind kind of and it can be used for other things other than observation, but because it's so dark
out there, a person could like bring their telescope. You have some protection from the elements. Um it's darker, you can see more. So I thought that was kind of interesting. But um I did talk to them specifically about can we do something to work together for Dark Skies and they said absolutely and
actually Ron is an ambassador for New Jersey with Dark Skies. So he's happy to work with us and I sent him the crosswalk you sent us that Dark Skies did between our ordinance and theirs. So he's going to also look at that and he said he's happy to come to a presentation here and talk about you
know Dark Skies or >> Have we gotten any feedback from the municipality since sending that over? Not yet. No, >> I think inviting him would be helpful and maybe we can invite someone else from the council or the manager's office to hear that presentation. It might put
a little fire under them. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. He is going to get back to me and tell me when he can come and present, but because he's an ambassador for Dark Skies and because he's with the astronomy club, I think it would be good. >> He's local. He's from US. Yeah. >> And then one thing that actually I
brought up to him and he said, "That's funny. That is the example we use all the time. When I was at the Anjack environmental conference, I went to a presentation on dark skies and they showed I have he said he has the slide Ron so he can show it. But I think we should invite a member of the police
department here as well because they showed a slide and it was like a fence. It looked just like that with the door opening and it said find the stalker. Arie, were you in this one with me? I can't remember. In the environmental congress, you might not have been in this one. >> I remember something about find the
stalker. Okay. So, it said find the soccer and it had a person was obviously standing there. They're standing below a flood light that was unshielded and the person you looking at it you couldn't see them right when they put the shielded light on. You actually could see the dangerous person there. So, they
said this is the thing people are saying we have to light up everything for security. It's so important but actually our eyes are not used to this white blue super bright light actually blinds us from seeing things. So when we invite them, my thought was inviting like a member of the police department.
>> That's always going to be the first argument. >> Yeah. >> Right. So maybe we can. So that was what I want to ask you. Do you want to just invite these guys to a meeting here or do we want to like hold some kind of Maybe we invite them to a meeting here first. >> Yeah. Maybe we start and and we see if
we can get the police department here first so we don't embarrass the police department in front of the citizenry. >> Right. Right. Right. once they get on board, they may be more willing to let us bring this to the citizenry.
>> Why didn't that be great? I I really do. And I was like, "Wow, I can't believe this." Not only that, they were showing how when you shield your light, like for your own property, you actually have better light on your property. When you put up these lights that are not shielded, you're actually like lighting everyone else's property and blinding
your own self. Yeah. So, I think it's really cool. So, I'd like to invite them. We can invite the township manager to maybe one of our upcoming meetings. That's good with everybody or Okay, >> cool. >> Thank you. >> And they're also going to work with Open Space. So, you'll hear about Ron uh Ron
Robin and Arie. I like combined your guys two name. You will hear more about this tomorrow at Open Space, but from my other perspect perspective, which is like, you know, they want to get like a portagon out there and things like that. So, different different needs. Yeah.
>> Yes. >> Okay. The New Jersey funding onestop shop interactive tool. I think many of us got this from D. >> Um came out what last week. >> Yes. >> Which I was very excited about and I went looking for my church right away
and found nothing helpful. Uh I at least they're trying to get the word out. Did everybody get a chance to see that? >> I went on the webinar today. >> We were on it. I thought it was super interesting and I think it has a lot of ways you can filter. Um,
>> I have it up here briefly. I mean, I haven't gone through it like with a fine tooth comb, but this is called New Jersey Funding one-stop shop. And basically, you click this button and they were demonstrating it today and I thought it was really cool. There's all these um filters and you answer these
questions, your address, who's your electric utility, etc. And then you talk about the project you want to do and it brings up not only does it bring up, this is what I really like about it. Not only does it bring up all the different types of funding, it prioritizes the ones on the top. So right at the top, it
highlights the top two meet your Yes. And I think that was great. You know, >> I think if we could send this out to our list and we put it on our website. >> Okay. >> And to our email list, we say, "Share this with any not forprofit you're involved with. Share it with your
employer. Share it with your kids. You never know who you might be helping >> cuz this tool you can also you it's for residential and it's for commercial and everybody everyone. It's not just for >> us. So yes. So so you want this should
be on our website under like resources for sure. Okay. Let me write this down >> and then I think as an email blast um look what the state's doing for us and please spread the word. Yes, >> it includes actually incentives uh from
all sources. So it has uh D, BPW, uh BPU, utilities, and even federal as long as it exists. >> I thought it was cool, right, Stan? They said they're going to keep it they're going to keep it updated like they're going to every month they're going to go
through and update it. They're going to not only put new sources in there, they're going to remove ones that have expired, which I think is great. Yeah, >> one thing which I caught um was that um sometimes you need a little bit technical advice >> because uh they were showing examples a
heat pump for heating which is great you know but heat pump works well in combination if you have floor heating it's top >> who has floor heating it's just separate investment right now forced air is the second one it still works but you if you
have radiator then then heat pump doesn't work well because radiator has to have substantially higher temperature than the ambient. Mhm. >> So the gradient that you have to work against with a heat pump, it just doesn't work. >> But but because the floor is slightly
warmer, so it works very very well with heat pump, >> right? >> You have that. >> I have radium floor heating. >> Okay. >> But I have 100% electric heat. >> Let's see if that can work in combination with what I already have. >> Heat pump will give you for one unit of
energy, three units of heat. >> Good place. If it's very low temperature then the index is going down but it's certainly better than one one which is >> yeah I'll talk to Dolan about it they say yeah I think if we can promote
this tool and then every time we have an education session we should be telling people about it >> I agree >> I think it's really cool >> and they've made it it presents nicely it does a lot of white space it's not intimidating the graphics are good
>> yeah like say so I went through And just for our address here, 475 the municipal building. I went through and I they were able to tell me I'm an overburdened community. So I didn't even have to answer that question by just typing in the address. They came up with overburdened community.
>> I don't think we qualified anymore. I thought we got knocked out. >> No, some enough tracks still do. >> But you are in uh in Manville, right? >> No, I put 475 to >> Oh, that's right. >> That's huge. Yeah. and then public service and then we got to and then I
just selected building energy efficiency and see right at the bottom it says based on your current search there are 12 funding programs available >> you didn't say we were overburdened it said >> it noted it for me >> and then you ch new build or an upgrade let's just say upgrade
>> I I think a helpful thing would be is if we added our houses of worship to a distribution like this email because that's a lot of buildings in Franklin we have 65 houses of worship really >> 65 >> and it has
>> 10 of them were interested in this kind of a project. It would help them and it helps the township's climate. >> I agree. >> So if if Vince or somebody in the tax assessor's office could give you the contact list for the houses of worship,
whether they have emails or not, I don't know. But even if we did a mailing to the houses of worship, I'd be happy to donate money to the EC so we could send a mailing and point this point them to this. >> I like it. That's a great idea. Yeah,
I'll put it on my list. >> I love a building. >> I'll put it on my list. This quick search I did just so you guys see it narrowed it down to three programs. One is the energy savings improvement program, which is absolutely something. The New Jersey Green Bank for financing.
And then there's uh the local government energy audit and the direct install which we've used these before. So it's it's I think a really good really really good tool. So yes, I think sending it out is good. I'm going to try and get that list from the assessor like you
said for the houses of worship. I think that's a great idea. >> Um I like it. And if anybody else can think of a general category where we could hit a lot of of potential users of this funding, let's try to think about that
and get the information to them. >> I like it. So everyone, I mean, I think we should keep focusing on this. I think this is a really good tool. So, and the webinar I thought was awesome. >> Yeah. Great. >> Um, the EC self assessment tool. >> So, I passed out the paper everyone today. I did get some of yours last
time, which was great. I didn't get a chance to look at them. Oh, thank you. >> Oh, thank you. Easy. >> Just realized I forgot to >> It's okay. I can give you one before we leave. I printed out extra. >> I got one extra. >> Yeah, >> actually. I think I filled it out. I
just didn't bring it. I probably fill it out. >> So, everyone, I didn't get a chance to look through these yet. I will, but Anjac um produced this and it's a assessment tool of our environmental commission from your perspective. You already gave me yours, Maria. I have it.
Um, >> I'm I'm writing though. >> Oh, yeah. I wanted to make sure you knew. Yeah. Um, I'm going to look it over and I just wanted to because I know, you know, in the beginning of the year, we always establish and our vision, our goals, and things we want to work on for the year. And I just kind of wanted to get I'm not submitting it to anyone. I'll read it. I'll share with
you guys the results. There might be nothing that comes out of it, and there might be like a good idea that comes out of it. So, I figured when I saw it at the NJC conference, it's easy enough to do. So, thank you so much. If you need it before I leave, it's like checking a few boxes. That's it. So, I have extra
copies. Thank you. >> Uh, committee reports. Anything from communication we want other than what we just talked about sending this? >> Yeah. The other day I suggested that we should develop maybe a regular schedule
and send some sort of newsletter and try try to add always something. >> Yes. So let's say that we find something and yesterday we uh release this newsletter we have it a few and then every I don't know two weeks once a month I don't know
>> two weeks might be a little often I think once a month is probably more realistic but why don't we have a communications meeting and talk about that >> because sometimes uh we may not be as diligent finding that there is an event that is more than one month ahead >> and we want to communicate it.
>> Yes. Well, we can always do a a blast for a particular >> Yeah. >> point, but if we have a goal, an editorial calendar to fill once a month, that would be a good thing. But why don't we have a communication meeting? >> Okay. >> And iron that out. Okay.
>> Well, speaking of a communication, I thought that what we put in the Franklin Time was wonderful. I don't remember us going through how it came about, but we filled a whole page and it really looks good. So, I don't know who text it.
>> Which one is this? Which edition is this? >> This is This is the fall one. It just came out six. I haven't seen it. >> Oh, you haven't seen it? >> No. I see. What did we Ryan didn't know about the bureau?
[Music] >> Environmental. >> Oh, yes. Yes, I remember that. Yes. It's a savings on your electricity. >> I forgot about it. >> That was a good one. >> The storm water one. Where did that come from? Is that our >> the flood pack?
>> That's from DPW. There are storm water man. >> But the but it's great on that. >> I agree. We've never gotten them to come forth before. That's great. >> That was a great Yeah, Maria and Stan wrote that. That was a great write up, right? So, it's in there now. It went
out all in Franklin Times. Oh, easy. I'm sorry. You guys didn't Yes, it's great. It's wonderful. So, yeah. >> I hadn't get that yet. >> Are you aware that you're in communications committee? >> What? >> Are you aware that you you are in communications committee?
>> You had volunteered to join at the URGO. If that's not convenient, don't worry about it. >> Okay. No. Uh, so what does that require? >> Well, we're gonna we're going to call a meeting. You will I mean I can give it a shot. >> I'd like to talk a lot of
how about energy and infrastructure committee. You have anything? >> So the only thing that you know we have Javon who's been interested in it although Javon you may be he's kind of learning what he's interested in. He might end up being interested in something completely different. You're welcome to be interested in everything
if you want. Um right now we don't have a lot going on right with the energy and infrastructure but we do have a ton of stuff going on in general and we appreciate you know his volunteerism and uh you know >> Paul is also part of that committee and he's not he's not right now. Okay. How
about education and outreach? >> Well um we're working on the presentation of the compost. So the author and the presenter is uh Ellen and we have been sharing sharing resources. >> Yeah, we've been
>> and she already prepared her talk. So we are making the next step is to make it visually >> when we want to do this >> yet because that's a conversation. >> I mean I brought visual aids. >> I' I've got vocashi. I've got you know different things.
>> It's happening in November. So >> don't break. >> You got to give us enough lead time to get people there. >> Okay. How like >> And we need time on Are you going to do it at the library? Are we on the library's calendar? >> Can we can we do a senior center that
that we did very well and and we can do it at our time because in library we have to start at 6 or something. >> Yeah. Right. Yeah. We have to stay close. Yeah. The >> senior center was good. >> Okay. >> This is our last EC meeting in October.
Okay. So, >> if you want and Thanksgiving is in November, >> so that shortens the month a great deal. >> If you want to have this in November around the 15th, we need to be telling people we need to get a date, make sure we have the senior center
>> or I might suggest we look to January. >> Okay. >> So, you decide to contact the senior center and get back to us so we can promote it. Did you think that the first week of December would still work? >> Okay. >> First week of December might work.
>> After that, no. >> After that, no. Yeah. >> Well, >> uh, well, since we're doing recycling around the holidays, holidays are all about food. >> Yeah. >> But what happened is last time abundance on the table.
>> That's what I'm I'm a You want a decent audience. Well, just let the communications committee know. >> Uh, do you know the contact in recreational department for scheduling? >> All emails from two years ago, the lady
who help us, >> Janet Timari, >> you want to contact her? Uh and that >> yeah, >> she will be uh your contact so that when you set up the date then you can start
everything else >> the other thing I can do too if you if it's helpful I don't know who the contact is anymore at the county for um composting but what I can do is I can reach out to the county cuz remember they donated a composter to us. I could
see if you want if they're willing to donate another composter cuz I know they have a ton there. I could ask >> if you think it'd be helpful. There are so many I mean there has been so since I was working on it with the solid waste resource renewal group when we did food
waste forums in 17 out of the 19 New Jersey counties and there has been forward motion reifying. >> Oh, cool. We have 21 counties. >> We have 21. I thought it was N. Sorry. Well, we we reached 17 cuz a few of the
counties refused. They had the right of refusal, but we we did we conducted 17. So, I can proudly say as a New Jerseyian, I've been in every county of New Jersey. >> There you go. >> Um, anything else on committees? I think
if the committees meet outside of this meeting, it makes better use of our time. >> Sure. Sure. >> Okay. hot topics. I can just give an update on this um New Jersey packed reel, >> the U proposed land use rags that are
primarily focused on the coastal area. Um I I think I told you I had one lunchon where I hosted some of the insurance agency in industry because there was a lot of misinformation out there by the developers that were opposed to these new rags. They were
amazed. They had no idea. um what was really in the regs and we're having a follow-up lunch next month and we're getting more people there including at least three insurance companies themselves are coming. So they are paying attention and I'm I'm pleased and
I think what we've created institute and LCV and the insurance industry are finding common ground and friends. So they can talk about these things proactively rather than us being splintered.
>> So I think I'm make getting through the insurance companies that anything that we can do to reduce the effects of climate change improves the bottom line of the insurance company. >> Yeah. >> So I'll give share more after this
November 12th next date. >> Anybody else hot topics, new policies, things happening? I think I wanted to say to touch back on uh the grass clippings like with the like DPW I'd say
>> uh probably like an outreach to DPW of >> how many different fields that they have do they use fertilizer and so forth and I think then we could get a numerical like aggregate amount of >> I can tell you they don't use fertilizer
because when I was talking to them regarding the no more uh save the mo the earth's day. They said they don't use chemicals and the first mo is pretty much close to the earth day anyway. So they were they they were all set
actually on the program. >> So those are if those are like non pesticide >> like grass clippings then yeah we can 100% recycle like I don't want to say recycle but we can use that towards >> something. I think they just leave them. >> Yeah. I don't think they bag it. >> They don't. Yeah. And they don't they
don't use fertilizer. That is actually too exercise. >> But if we can get an education session going, we can ask them some really good questions about their operations. >> Well, if that's something you're interested in, Javon, if we are, I mean, that's something you could help. You could volunteer with if you really like that presentation that's of interest. I
mean, you could absolutely volunteer to help us with that. >> Yeah. Cool. Okay, that's great. Yeah, that was really interesting. We will let Tara connect you to DPW through Tara and we find a nice little ambassador to DPW.
>> Tara, aren't there some open space properties that pesticides and herbicides are used on? >> No pesticides that we do not use pesticides. >> I don't My understanding is we do not use herbicides either. That is my understanding. There was that one
property close to Conado, I think, that the >> next door neighbor was complaining about something and >> Oh, yes, you're right. There was a property right by the old consulada and it was he thought we were using and it
was clarified we don't use pesticides, but you're right. I think we did have one time we use an herbicide there to treat like an invasive area, but that's not typical. >> Problems been solved. So maybe we could come up with a slogan
instead of like leave the leaves, it's like leave the grass clippings something. It's like, you know, blend it back into your lawn. Don't, you know, don't bag it. >> Yeah, we could I can look it up and see if there's something. I bet you there's something that they already have. I bet you. All right. I can look into that,
Ellen, for sure. There might be something existing >> like past the grass or something like that. >> Yeah, there you go. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Anything else under hot topics? >> No. >> Um, environmental achievement award. >> So, we picked up our environmental achievement award from Anjack at their
conference. So, Arie was there. Thank you, Stan was there. Ted won his legacy award which was amazing. Um, and everyone was super happy and uh like everyone was very happy Ted cuz he was he, you know, doesn't like the limelight. But, um, yes. So, we got our
award. Councilman Kurazzi accepted it on behalf of the environmental commission and the trails advisory committee kind of as a group. We got our picture taken. So it was great. It was really good. >> Yeah. So >> I think maybe we can mention uh who said
that that um uh our senator Bob Smith is now uh investigating whether we can um get away from the PJM. really >> and have our own because because there
is too much going on with the PJ. It used to DJ as a jersey, right? >> Yes. Right. >> But it's what it's 13 states or something now. And it was discussed last time as a part of actually >> well they they mentioned that the the
governor of Pennsylvania is raising the possibility of leaving PJM and since they're Pennsylvania is a net producer of energy >> and I think I'm
>> New Jersey is a consumer so we'd make a good match and >> I think I'm mixing it up. You were discussing it here. It was not discussed at the at the NJ, right? Yeah. >> So, it's not news, but anyway, >> go ahead. >> So, that is a conversation they're
considering. Maybe New Jersey and Pennsylvania creating its own energy pack. >> I wouldn't say that I've heard that. I think it would be a good thing to explore. >> Yeah. Okay. That's fascinating. No, I
just I think I heard during the and I've got a lot of notes on on the Sierra Club presentation, so I can go back and check on that. >> I I don't remember when did we hear it that that um uh Smith is is doing research on it. Somebody must have said
it in during an or when was >> it was that the Sierra Club webinar club? Oh, so maybe Ted can look at his really. >> No, I was there too. Yeah. >> What to do about PJF? >> But also Delaware is importer.
>> Mhm. >> Maybe even more so than us. >> Yeah. >> Wow. So if if we would escape, we would have to bring Delaware with us. I mean, >> well, let's let's see what your notes say. Um, leave the leaves. And I I just
put my signs up in my yard. >> Nice. Uh so um uh I asked Jenny to write an article uh which would be accompanying uh the uh the video and was submitted to the article. Yeah.
>> Yeah. You just reminded me I have it. >> Okay. Thank you, Bill. That would be great. >> Anything else to leave? All right. Um skip the stuff. I have an update. >> Oh, nice. I went to the chamber meeting,
okay, and one member of the chamber board said, "We can't endorse anything environmental." >> Uhoh. >> What? >> It's too political. >> What? >> What? >> I was crushed.
I was crushed. >> And he really seemed to hold sway. Now, I haven't followed up back with >> Nick Demglo, who is president of the chamber, >> but I I I left the room a little shaken, quite honestly, and I can usually keep
my composure. Um, he, this particular person is the principal of a charter school >> and feels that they have no business educating or bringing this to the attention of the restaurant or food service public.
>> Climate change. What is he talking? I'm sorry. >> So, two, the saving grace was there's a member on the board now, um, Chinese American guy who owns a Chinese restaurant here in town who apparently
is a Harvard grad. >> He was very interested in our materials. >> Korean. >> Korean. Thank you, Bill. Um, he he asked for the materials. I said, "No, we developed these." He complimented us on the materials and he was going to give
it a trial run. >> All right. >> So, with Bill Grio's help, I'm going to go back to him and see if I can start there. >> Yeah. >> And say, "Okay, as a business owner, um, you've had a chance to try this. What would help complement it? What could we
provide to to make it better for you? And could you help bring this message to other other food service businesses in the town?" Um, so as you know, I've been away for three and a half weeks. So that's on me to go back and follow up with both Nick
Degloio and with Bill Grio. Do you know his name? >> John Park. >> John >> Park. >> Park. Um, he does. >> It's near the shop on Elizabeth Avenue, I think. >> KG Korean barbecue
>> and Hamilton Street. >> PJ, you were there for some of that. >> Yeah. And this isn't ringing a bell, but uh Nami is the policy tender. >> Yeah. >> And so there may be something in the bylaws that supported what you said that
he said. >> I honestly I I don't know. I have not seen that provision. >> Well, I I will follow up both with with John and with Nick and u because we really need their help. I mean, we can all walk around with these
>> Yeah. window clings. But it would be a lot better if um maybe we could get an article in the local paper about skip the stuff. What is that? >> Your writer send something that I I'll send something to you.
>> Oh, you can send. >> Yeah. >> Yeah, I'm sure we have something. Absolutely. >> So, what did he say? He said that >> Montgomery certainly has things information, >> right? Um yeah, he felt that for the chamber to en encourage businesses to
save money by doing skip the sub was too political. >> I think you >> where do you get that? >> It's a it's a really good idea. Um when you speaking with like the the the Korean restaurant owner, I think the the
way you have to hit them is through the stomachs. So, if you picked apart like maybe like an ethnic restaurant or something like that throughout Franklin Township, like if you got Korean, like Indian is pretty huge in this community, like if you hit maybe like one or something like that, um I feel as though
eventually it'll definitely just like it's not just one example, but you have food and businesses that a want to save money and b you're able to it's free market like restaurants. >> The trick for us is to get to the business owners. If we walk in the door,
we're talking to the staff in that shift. >> Got it. >> Which is why the chamber was so critical. >> Makes sense. Makes sense. >> That's the update. I will try to bring more. Yeah, I can interject on two levels. Um I spoke with a couple of
restaurants about that concept and I think it's it's well and good environmentally to talk about this as it is. But what I heard and what makes sense to me is okay. So, I have 25% of my business is takeout and I'm sending x
number of meals and people are calling me where are my fork and spoon and my napkin. >> What's the substitute? What are we offering as a replacement that that offers the same convenience to someone
who's doing takeout, which is a huge chunk of a lot of places. The the idea behind this program is that all of that is provided on request. We're not denying it. We're not withholding it. We're providing it upon request. So it may be the missing pieces in that first
pass of education to have a little flyer that they put in the bag >> that says we're participating and skip the stuff. If you'd like to have the straws, the the cutlery, the napkins, the condiment packets, just let us know when you place your order. That has to
be incumbent upon the person who takes the order from the customer who doesn't know about this program. >> We're the beginning. Yes, this is part of the education. >> The education, but it has to emanate from the organization. >> Yes. >> I mean, the public is not savvy. And on that note, the Franklin reporter would
be happy to do a live stream video for you to explain this to the the public at large. >> That'd be great. So, whoever would like to participate in that one. >> Who's our volunteer? My daughter. >> You could involve this restaurant owner
in the video. >> Yes. Yes. >> Or more than one. I think that what we need is the really welldeveloped process for that because what you hit >> is this is this is a real scenario and
the the way how we develop the communication to the final person that's that's what matters >> and also be included in their website >> um because many people door dash >> and they need to know okay if you need
you need to ask for this and put that in your order the owner. >> Yeah, I give you another example. It could be as easy as when somebody picks up phone and wants to call the business. The first that they hear is we are participating in skip the stuff uh
activity. If you would like to know more uh uh let us know and now we'll connect you. Right. So, >> more simpler than that. Would you like the paper napkin and the plastic utensils >> because we're we're supposed to do that. We're not going to offer it to you
unless you absolutely want it because we're trying to save the environment. >> So rather than dress it up with a rationale just right from the start. Right from the start. We're trying to to protect our environment. We'd rather not have to give you plastic and paper.
We're committed to a beautiful but we would prefer not to. How do you feel about that? And we'll send your order out in 25 minutes. If you if you >> put something on the online menus, >> right? >> Oh, nice. >> Yeah. You know,
>> but it still has to be an education. >> Well, I think we can create a perhaps a mini committee to work on this with John Park's help, you know, get feedback from a business owner. How can we do this? Well, >> oh yeah. >> Um, so I'll reach out to him and see if
we can do >> I have my email and all that. So, let me know when you want to do the live stream and we'll >> we'll set it up. >> That would be great. Thank you. >> We get Jenny to do our live stream. >> She's cute. Jenny cuff us. >> Yeah. >> Oh, yeah. >> Yeah.
>> Somebody with silver hair. I think it'd be better yet. >> Don't sell. >> Yes. There you go. >> Don't sell that short. There's a huge demographic in Franklin Township who will want to hear from you. >> Yes. Agree. >> Maybe we get two horses.
team. A team >> have more than three voices if you >> Yeah, both of you. >> All right, we'll work on this to the point. >> And you sell the concept. >> Wonderful. Thank you. >> You can help us edit and write this.
>> Well, that'll be live. Editing is is the franchise that that's going to be live. >> Well, I mean, help us choreograph. >> She sets on that. >> You speak you speak from the heart. you tell the story why it's important because everybody's bottom line what's
in it for me. >> Thank you. >> That's great. Um appointment of a youth member update to our ordinance. >> Council member Pataznik was here at the last meeting and he said that um the township I guess apparently is working
on it because it's not just getting a youth member on for us. It's that I guess it has to be universal across the board. Um, so they're working on developing some kind of ordinance. They're working on the ordinance for youth members. So we're we're waiting.
>> Any any other old business requested by the commissioners. >> All right. I think we should open to the public. >> A motion. >> Would second. Second. >> All those in favor? I
>> public, would you like to add anything? Thank you very much all of you for your active participation and your willingness to help carry this ball for the whole township. Thanks all of us, you know, and we really appreciate what you're doing. Um, okay. Hearing no other
comments from the public. Is there a motion to close? [Music] >> Second. >> All in favor? >> Okay. Lastly, first before I do this, Tara, thank you for everything you're doing. >> Oh, thank you. >> You bring up a topic, you fill it in.
>> Awesome. Thank you so much. Yes. Happy to. Thank you. >> Happy to do it. >> All right. Motion to adjourn. >> Yes. >> Move. Second. >> All in favor? I believe 40 p.m. I like