Uh we're going to call the meeting to order. We started a little late today only because uh we had some technical difficulties. So uh we're going to start with flag salute. Pledge of allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the
republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> Thank you. Uh, we're going to add something to the agenda. This I think is a good idea. We're going to do like a roll call.
David Weaver present. Uh, Susan Carol present. Robert present. And Samuel Lu present. And chairman Patal present. Um, Sunshine Law. The meeting is uh in accordance to the
open public meetings act. Sunshine Law statement. Please be advised that adequate notice of this meeting was provided by mailing a notice to the home news tribune and the courier news also by filing a notice with the clerk of Franklin Township and by posting a notice in the municipal building located
on Deont Lane Somerset, New Jersey. All of which contain information concerning the hours and places of this meeting. This meeting may be taped. There will be no smoking in this public meeting and please silence your cell phones. Okay, there's the roll call there. Um going to
move into the approval of uh the March 3rd meeting minutes. So these are uh very well good meetings. I'm assuming AI had some help with this. >> Little bit, huh? >> Yeah. >> Okay. I I I looked them over and uh
they're they're pretty good. Very very good. Anybody give it a quick look and whenever you want, give me a uh a motion. >> I'll make a motion to approve. >> Motion by Rob uh Court.
>> Second by Samuel Loose. All in favor? >> I approve. Uh new business. We have two things here on the agenda. Senob construction and uh 3014
to 3021 route uh 27. How involved is the Senoko pipeline uh project? Like are we going to have delivery for for a long time or
you know for us it's pretty straightforward. Um, you know, we've been through the New Jersey D Green Acres process, which uh >> Well, I'm just seeing like who would be longer. So, is you think yours would be a little bit longer than the building or >> our project's pretty small.
>> Pretty small. Okay. We'll take you first. >> State your name. Yes. I'm Kyle Donnelly, project manager pipeline. I'm Sam Gilbert with AE Energy Services, the uh consulting engine. I
>> think Sam, you had sent in some drawings. >> Uh yes, you guys have copies of all the photos. Yeah. So, what what we've been working on over the last couple years is acquiring a valve site easement from Franklin Township in Castleton Park
along our pipeline right away. So, the pipeline is existing. It's underground there now on the edge of the park. We have a current pipeline valve on the north side of Easton AB that's underground. We eventually want to remove that valve after we get this new
valve site installed. The new valve site will be an above ground valve uh that's fenced in and uh we'll have it electrically operated so our control center that runs the pipeline can close it uh remotely rather than us having to send people out now to operate the valve
with with the existing facility that's there. Uh so um you know we we've presented this to the township a a few times now especially through the green acres process and um we met with the technical review committee a few weeks ago and uh
after that we put our application into the historic commission to review our project plans as well. It looks like you, like you said, the uh the valve area, you're going to get a brown um
vinyl fence surrounding it, >> correct? >> Yes, exactly. Yeah. >> Yeah. We're trying to conceal it uh with a nice uh nice cosmetic fence. >> We'll be able to see a little bit of the valve site, like the top the top of it, but most of it will be concealed. Y and
and and you know, we picked the color that we thought was best suited for the area, but you know, if the township prefers one of the other color options for that fence type, you know, we're supposed to make >> uh Yes, it is. Yes.
>> I understand from just this really quickly, you're you basically are not locating this on historic historic area at all. No. And you'll be taking out the current one which is
>> Yeah. Yeah. That is on the canal side of East A. Correct. Yes. >> Yep. Yep. We did um through the green acres process the state historic preservation uh office reviewed this project as well and cleared us for any
any impacts from their size. Will the valve on the north side just be abandoned or will it be taken out? We'll be taking we'll be taking out that valve and just putting in a piece of pipe to replace it. So, yeah, it's a 14-in pipeline now. So, we'll just put a piece of 14in pipe. It's probably going to be
30 40 ft long. And then we'll just reberry it. So, you'll you'll just see the right of way there, but there won't be any valve. There's a little can now or lid for the valve that you can see from East Nav. That'll be gone. So, you won't be able you won't see anything over there. >> Will that disturbance interfere with the
canal? >> Uh uh. No. No. Um we are we're off the canal a little bit there and we did go in there a few years ago to do um a repair to the pipeline. Um so, we've been in that area before. It'll be nighttime work, but it's, you know, pretty small footprint that we need to
remove the valve and put the pipe back in. So yeah, we won't we won't be touching the the canal area at all. We just do have some landscaping uh planned for around the valve site as well. You know, we we put our suggestion there um for what we think would be
needed. Um we did have a little back and forth with the shade tree commission during the green acres process and told them that we're open to suggestions from them as well on the landscaping. So, you know, we working with them as we restore the facility and if there's any any input
there, we're more than willing to uh >> Yeah, I would >> I would think everybody would appreciate that. A little buffer with some vegetation. >> Uh you might be taking out some and so just add some back. Any questions about the fence and the color? It looks like there's four options. We're going with a
walnut brown. Um, yeah. To me that is a better historic color, but either one's fine. Definitely not gray, though. I wouldn't say that gray. >> And you do the plant things as well.
>> Correct. Yes. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. We're a little limited on what we can plant right over the pipe because we don't want the tree roots to go into the pipe, but around the pipe. >> It's a it's a commercial uh area there.
I don't see much that we can really um uh have too much perview or or uh or anything on um other than the color of the fence. Does anybody have any?
I don't really have any hard issues one way or the other. Any other questions or anything? Um, >> pretty straightforward. >> With that, can I have a motion to approve? >> Bob, uh, is going to make the motion to
approve as, uh, as submitted in, uh, Susan. We'll second. All in favor? >> I Okay, guys. On to the next step. >> Thank you. >> You guys come on up.
You guys, how are you all this evening? My name is John. I'm the attorney for the applicant uh JHT Properties LLC. Uh, as the chairman mentioned, this is for 3014 to 3021 Lincoln Highway. That's Route 27.
It's also designated as block 46, lots 11 through 13. Uh, this is a property located in the uh, neighborhood business zone. Uh, it's right at the intersection of 27 and Clover Place. And we are
constructing or we are proposing to construct uh a new shopping center uh and a restaurant. So it's a uh 2 and 1/2 acre presently vacant lot um
and we're proposing one 15,000t retail shopping center and then a 7,000 ft uh restaurant. Hopefully you've received our submitts. It looks like you're looking at them now. Uh, I do have uh with me Jeffrey Herman and uh
Bill Bill uh Finebal uh who can uh tell you Fineberg, I'm sorry. Uh who can tell you a little bit more about um the design of the project and uh the the site layout and the architecture. So uh why don't we kick it
over to to Bill first so he can show us what it's going to look like. Um, sorry if I'm throwing this out of order here. What we're proposing it looks like. So, you should have in your package tonight a copy of our uh submission plan which
consists of elevation four sides floor plan. Now, we've also generated for tonight's meeting a um materials board and I'd love to share those along with us. I do have one, two copies that we
can pass. You want to pass those around. So, we have a number of constraints on this project. Uh one is a height constraint. So, we're limited to 30 ft. uh generally uh a retail operation we have 17 feet
clear to the structure structure is about 2 feet we also have and then we have parapit walls now we also have another restriction we have to hire any mechanical equipment so within these buildings uh there's a 6ft parapit wall
so we're about 25 ft maybe 27 ft when we're all said and done depending on the equipment that gets selected and this way we can hide the equipment, but we're under the 30ft requirements. So, our challenges were to break up the elevation. So, we don't have typical
shopping center flat facade. So, as you look at the plan that submitted, there are offsets anywhere from 4 to 6 ft that allow us to push the front facade in and out uh into smaller um smaller sections.
It's also a requirement, I believe, in the uh zoning ordinance that you can't have a facade. I believe it's 50 ft total length. None of our facades are greater than uh about 30 ft. Um so what we looked at is our opportunity to use
materials that were I don't want to say residential, but a little more softer in nature. So, we have on our on our drawings here, you'll see there's a brick water table, and I'll pass some samples around. Um, so we're looking at
through the entire building a brick water table. Plus, there are areas that are not on the plans where I have full height brick like in this center section. So, across the entire bottom, there's a a brick water table and it
returns around the side. The other thing we looked at is uh we have a synthetic stucco. So this is a sample of the finishes. The finish that mean the smooth finish and the color which is
complimentary to the brick color. And then what we've done we're showing an opportunity for what we want to look like wood siding. So we call that a cement base siding. I could get a color
sample uh for this cuz it's custom, but this is going to be this is a vinyl uh commercial grade sided that this is the look that we're looking for, but it'll be in the cement siding bases. And then finally,
our uh our store front and our awning, they're all going to be black aluminum. So, we wanted to take an opportunity to try and soften the truck side given the restrictions we have with building height and hiding the equipment.
All right. Um, with that, I have a question for the board. Uh, normally when we we're at the uh the hardy board and stuff like that, we want a smooth texture. uh this year is a uh you know wood grain thing but it
is on a a new commercial building. Um what's everybody's opinion on that? >> I normally say smooth residential but >> I'm saying that you know we can go either way with it right now
but >> it's not going to be on a residential uh >> Yeah. >> I think we're flexible to go either way also. here. >> Oh. Oh. Oh. Uh, we normally recommend and want a smooth Hardy board. This is a textured, but it's also
>> get dirty fast. >> It'll get dirty. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> So, it's also a commercial thing. So, um, >> that would be one question. Anybody have an opinion one way or the other?
>> You're not opposed having a smooth finish? >> The other the other in your head? That's >> it would be more complimentary to this here. Right. Right. >> It'll be like that. So, I don't think that's a an issue. >> And again, it won't be a painted surface. You know what I mean? It's
going to be a wood grain uh surface. So, it'll have the appearance of, you know, large shiplap, >> right? Like 9 in boards. So, they're going to be very large and, you know, in terms of the massing and scale. >> Yeah. So, that would be the one comment.
Um, we use a smooth uh board product. >> That's a good thought that it'll get dirty quicker if it'll it'll actually work out better for you. The other thing is um
and we kind of focus on it a little bit here is uh is working storm water basins and things in the front and some vegetation just to kind of soften the uh um especially on the clover place side because that's going into a residential
area. Is there any kind of uh plans or wants to soften it up a little? But uh overlay of the land if you will. So uh
just again uh my name is Jeff Haberman. Uh thank you all for your time tonight. Um I'm the site civil engineer for GHT properties and we prepared this exhibit here. You know, I'm going to skip right over the concept because this is the concept with
the I'll touch on the historical marker um that I know there's there's a little bit of history to it. So, um this this exhibit here is prepared by by my company, Dynamic Engineering Consultants. Right here is a concept layout, a site plan if um pretty much
what you know we intend to submit as an application to the planning board um in the near future through the guest room here. Um, as mentioned, the property itself is located on the corner of Route 27 in Clover Place. Um, this property is in the the neighborhood business
district, but it's also in the overlay um, local historic district. So, that's why we're here tonight. This specific piece of property is on the very northern end of the historic uh, district. So, I think in this section, there's about 25 or so properties along Route 27 that are located in the overlay
zone. very northern end. There's a couple more properties north that are um also in the historic relation zone. Um the the buildings that you were just showing here, the the main uh retail uh shopping center is on the left side of the site and the uh which is about
15,000 ft² and on the right side is the proposed restaurant which is roughly uh 7,000 ft a little bit shy of that. Um so our intention here from you know a site development perspective you're you're you're talking on the landscaping
the buffering was to um provide room around the perimeter of the site essentially especially along route 27 we wanted to soften the project from the re 27 corridor and also from Clover Place. Um Clover Place is predominantly residential as you get over to the top
of the page behind the project site. Um and so our intention is though we haven't done a full storm water management design, full landscaping design, what we would um our next step would be is to prepare that and we have about 35 ft or so in front of this the
the the shopping center and roughly uh a little bit over 50 ft in front of the restaurant. So that's that's a nice width of um buffer area that we can have, you know, street trees, staggered landscaping. Um, and our intention is to possibly design some kind of a bio retention basin facility, which is a
planted feature. It's not like what you typically see as a sand uh bottom. Um, which is a nicer feature aesthetic and and it provides a nice way to soften, you know, the hardscape from from the Route 27 corridor. Again, it's not designed yet um because we haven't gotten to the level of of uh design that
would be planning to middle, but that's what our intention is as as for the next steps. Uh, in addition, we we certainly want to be um cognizant of our neighbors that are directly to the north. That's um all single family dwellings along um
Orchard Street. Um so we do also have uh buffer space over here, enough room to put a nice, you know, staggered evergreen tree row um with a fence so that we could buffer the residents from the back of the site. Um I know there are other um you know
design standards that we'll have to work through at the planning board level. It's it's you know the commercial design standards. So one of those items is how we arrange the parking of the of the site. We've what we show here is roughly 50% of the parking in front of the building
and 50% and this is I'm speaking to the retail center itself. 50% in front of the building 50% in the back and the sides of the building. Um for the restaurant actually 75% of that parking is either at the the rear or the side of that restaurant. Um there's a lot of
parking also directly front um the building. Um so that limits, you know, the amount of parking that's right up against Route 27, but again, you know, providing um a nice buffer space in front of the two uses to provide a, you know, nice landscaping scheme and and storm water
facilities that could help soften that appearance from from Route 27. Um there was there is some history about the um the historical aspect of this site pertaining to the Somerset County um their first courthouse located on
this site. So know Mr. Lampford's office um had engaged Somerset County to locate the historic marker that's associated with that courthouse and they the county did successfully find it. um essentially a a pretty big boulder with a plaque on it that signifies that first courthouse.
Um and we've conceptually and want to you know of course get your input on where it should be located. Any any other improvements we could tie into that. My my thought was you know we we can't have it right at the corner of the intersection because it's it's a sight triangle issue. Um and but you know if
we push it a little bit further back um we want to keep it at least visible near the intersection. Put a nice like PA patio around it. couple benches, put some nice ornamental plantings, couple ornamental trees, nothing that would obscure the sight of it, but would enhance, you know, the the actual
monument itself. Um, that was our that that was our vision, our thought right now, but, you know, obviously we're we're welcome to hear your thoughts on how we can design. >> I know there was a marker there. >> There was a marker. Yes, >> there was a marker there. Yes. >> And that's where we would, you know,
place that repet. >> How big of an area conceptual >> how big of an area. So >> yeah, the marker and the trees and the parks. >> So what we have conceptualized here is about the the depth of a parking stall.
So it's 20 ft deep. Um probably about a 20 x 20 ft square right now. Um you know, we're a little bit limited to push it into the intersection here just because of the you know, you know, safety for vehicles driving at the intersection. Um, but we would we would look to utilize
that space, any amount of space over in this location near the corner of the intersection. And, you know, that access to the section is pretty important, I think, for for this work and also for the planning board later on. But, our main driveway is going to be right from RE27.
Um, it's a state highway. We've already met with NJ DOT at a pre-lication meeting. Um, so we have a way to uh permit that full movement access driveway. So that'll be the main driveway into the site. Uh, we obviously want to deter any traffic going to Clover Place.
What documentation did the summer said the county find of that black photo or drawing or they just confirmed that it >> they confirmed it by email that they have and and it's ready for pickup and delivery. Yes,
>> they have all of that. >> Yes. My my big concern is that um I would like to see some sort of a deeper um >> radar. Uh
>> yeah, radar penetration because I think you should be going down since that was a courthouse early 1700s. There may be people that were hung there and buried there.
>> So I would think that there should be a little further investigation. You don't have the whole area should be really looked at that. >> Yeah. >> Has any archaeological surveys been done there? >> Yeah, they did. They did shovel testing, but they found a couple things, but
nothing. Yeah, you got to go down 10 ft. >> Yeah. >> With with the radar to be able to find that. you'll be able to find if there are any disturbancing of any bodies there because I know one down in South Jersey when they were doing something like this
project they found Hessant soldiers buried there. So old wells and and foundations and other stuff as well. Um so that would be a recommendation of uh of our commission. Uh, the other thing
is I'd like to see a little bit more further of a a plan with vegetation and the the park area of actually what you uh plan on on doing right now just conceptual, but I'd like to actually say
this is what you came up with and looked at it cuz really most of the plan is is zoning. Um and uh we're there to kind of uh soften it and buffer it to go with the residential area and the historic area,
but um how many parking spots and and all that stuff, that's not us. So um um yeah, so I'd like to see a final conception of the of the um vegetation and and landscaping area there to soften
that. And um and as Bob's um point uh some kind of ground temperature radar survey >> area lot >> the three lots there uh to identify any
uh any historic significance. >> So I guess we can get like preliminary >> we don't have to vote on it now to vote on it. Right. Um >> well, I mean obviously for our purposes, we would we would love for you to vote
on it. Uh and conditionally, um you know, we would accept um you know, if those were constraints that you wanted to put on the applicant to conduct that uh ground penetrating radar study and uh present a vegetation plan um to your
satisfaction, uh that would be something that we're open to and and would would um appreciate >> present to you. But uh obviously we would advocate for for a vote. >> Yeah. So um >> what do you guys just a question I had.
Did the ground penetrating radar just timing wise um does that happen sooner or does that happen as a condition that they have to do once they start site construction? It really should be sooner like um as part of the
design phase to see what's going on with the land just like the vegetation and and and that we need to be able to approve that before they would give approval. you know, >> what happens if you find some bodies there? >> I will
say that you're going to find bodies there. But back then, if you were found guilty and you had no relatives or anything, they hung you, that's where you went. >> There might be something like that there. >> We don't know what's there
>> or something else. Um, and it would be neat to see the foundation and say where where was the uh the courthouse on that lot, you know, to identify it and then we can determine where the the rock in the plaque should
be. You know, if it was further over uh to the other side, maybe put it over there. >> The plaque was only maybe about on a piece of stone about like this big and maybe in brass like that. Okay. There there was a little little plaque there saying that this was the first court.
>> Robert, who made these comments? I'm sorry. Who made these comments? >> That was Andrew. And I was Dave, myself, and uh Andrew, >> these were comments made to a prior concept. It has been uh revised.
>> Um so some some of them some of them may be applicable, but some of them may be to a prior plan. Are the current owners of the property the ones that owed? >> No, they are not. No. >> And that's why we're here seeking only
the uh certificate of um appropriateness and not a demolition permit. >> Yeah. >> No, I know. But sometimes sometimes you you seek forgiveness rather than permission. But my my client did not uh
do the demolition whatsoever. >> Just one more question too I guess for both the the commission and the applicant. The location I guess a question for the applicant first. the um location of this like plaza area. Um
it did you put it here? Was that the historic location of of this plaque? Is that why you chose to put it at the corner or is there a reason why you put it there? >> You just you just chose it as like a visible area. Um you'll know signify at the inter like you'd be able to see it
more clearly. Um I mean we're flexible to where it can be located on the property. Um >> hard to see that black and white exactly and preaching that on something like this. >> Yeah. >> So then I guess a question to the commission then because one of the
things that when they do come before the board and you mentioned that the design standards, one of the things that's required by the township's zoning requirements is that there's a retail establishment like this. There's going to have to be some type of amenity area.
Usually it is. So, so notwithstanding this plaque, they would have to provide some type of sitting area, benches, things like that, when I see this location, I'm wondering is anybody ever going to use it? It's out on the corner. >> But if that site had some historic
significance, if that was the historic location of that plaque, then maybe that's where you would recommend it be. But otherwise, if it's not, I'd recommend you put it somewhere closer to the building, maybe incorporate it into the sitting area
that, you know, some there's a deli or pizza place in there. You know, they go sit on a bench to eat their lunch and the plaque is within that sitting area close to the building rather than >> plaque was right on 27, maybe about like that far from from the curb. You know,
>> that's why I brought it up. Again, I wasn't sure if that if its location on 27 was significant from a historic perspective or not, or is it more important that it that people actually see it and maybe location on the site people see it?
>> The marker itself is not historic >> and you know it doesn't have to be replicated back on a boulder. If there is a area of amenities, I think it should be there rather than on a corner. >> If you could find that plaque, I'd have
it on the building, too. >> Yeah. Somewhere. Yeah. With where in a public >> I don't know if they I don't know whether it was taken up. >> I don't know what the county said to you. >> Well, we got a picture of it. >> Have a picture. >> Yeah.
>> That's a That's a great suggestion. I mean, we'll we'll have to work out that amendy space. >> So, I I just I heard a little bit of um of a conflicting opinion. I just want to hear where the commission really comes down on it. Um in terms of the location
of that landmark signifying this is a historic site. Um is it is the preference that it be visible from the roadway or is the preference that it be an area that could be a place that people congregate in that amenity zone? because I think those are two separate
placements. >> I I would say amenity zone. >> Yeah, I would say amenity zone >> viewable by the walking public cuz people aren't going to sidewalk. >> Yeah, there's no Yeah, people are not people actually visit the site and they go to the amenity zone then they can
actually read the plaque as opposed to when they drive by. They're not going to read the plaque when they drive by. >> Okay. >> What do you have to one thing about Route 27? If you know anything about the road that Washington and Ro Shambo
took, Washington came down Route 27 during the revolution and Ro Shambo, the general, French general came down on River Road. So that's kind of how Franklin Township was called. So Washington
travel along with Adams and um on their way to uh New York from Philadelphia. So they traveled that along with on the stage coach. So >> just give you a little bit of
pretty pretty special where that is. >> And let's go over these comments here from when it was proposed earlier. Not sure when that was, but number one, they will need to maintain the street wall along Route 27. parking will likely need
to go to the rear or side of the lots. Look at 380 route 27 for parking example. Must also protect the residential community. Um, so I pulled up 380 route 27 to see
what's there. And there is a brick uh wall. >> Yeah, it's a building kind of like colonial style. It's right up against the setback, but it's more of a kind of
colonial style. I think it might be more for planning. I don't know what the design standards are, but if there needs to be how far away it needs to be from the street, but you know, historic commercial, you know,
structures are closer to the road without a front parking area, but you know, that's kind of gone now on Route 27. But, you know, Yeah. As far as the township's design standards for the architecture, it basically wants attractive design. Yeah. and and so I
think if the commission was going to recommend some different type of architecture based on this you know it would fit better with the historic nature then we need to hear your opinion but I don't I don't think the design
that they have this modern more modern design is necessarily consistent with the zoning design standards >> and in terms of the the placement of the parking uh you might uh remember Jeff mentioned in that for um the larger building 50% of the parking is behind it
and 50% is on the side with 50% in the front. Um if we were to place more in the back then it might create more of an impact on that residential community behind. So I think with this design we're trying to strike the balance and uh we'll show that landscaping design
that will buffer against it. So you're not going to have a bunch of cars lined up on the road. You're going to see hopefully landscaping and then the building will be more of the prominent feature rather than the parking lot. Gotcha. Gotcha. What I uh what sticks out to me here is this street wall. Um
they'll need to maintain the street wall around 27. Do you guys have that in this? >> I don't think they mean actual wall. >> Yeah, it's not a wall, right? >> I mean like >> Okay, cuz I I see it cuz he said look at
uh 30 80. Uh okay. The parking >> parking parking area is in front. Okay, >> second one. Strip mall architecture will not be appropriate. We'll need to be more sympathetic and compatible with horse historic context. Look at 3031 and
3055 route 27 as an architectural example. One of those has a gamrell roof. It's a medical office building, two stories. Again, we're constricted by height. You also want to screen the um mechanical equipment. So, and those were
much narrower buildings, much narrower lots. So, they were framed like a house. And the other one was look like a series of of uh salt boxes tied together. So, >> yeah, I wouldn't want it to look like a
um that's that's okay. I wouldn't want it to look like a um colonial barn. Okay. Soft colors are fine. doesn't have to. Sometimes when you want to have something colonial put in the colonial era, it's
>> doesn't fit >> right. So I something like that is is we're trying to bring those materials so it softens the front from you know typical like some there are some stuckco buildings along along the 27 that were
you know 1970 strip malls that got repainted. So, we're trying to get that, you know, change the look. Even with the lighting for the signs, use a goose neck. You know, it could be wood signs, things like that. So, we're kind of soften it up.
>> I got to come back with that design, too. >> Yeah. >> There must be an interpretive landscape element uh for the location of some county's first courthouse. What happened to the stone plaque designed by daughters? must be accommodating and we
talked about that. So, um some sort of interpretive design element in you know area put this monument and plaque. Two contributing structures in a historic barn were legally demolished on the
site. Regardless of the current owner, this must be addressed, including the approval of the demolition. I don't know where that goes. That goes to you guys. Uh um >> what was going demolished already? >> It was already demolished already, right? But uh
>> and they're not responsible for >> they're not responsible for it, but I mean I think you're addressing it through the what your recommendation with with the radar thing. That's radar. >> That's kind of where I was looking at that too. >> Um
>> same for this one. There will be extensive archaeological requirements for this site specific to the Lincoln Highway and courthouse. So again, that's the uh radar penetrating and um and uh facing off of that maybe
an archaeological dig if there's foundations and other things uh found there. Uh the east side of Route 27 in North Brunswick will not be accepted as a reason to diminish the historic character of Franklin Township historic
district. It's true. So just because other areas uh on 27 and on the cross street is more modern uh doesn't mean uh that we're going to let this be uh
modernized. uh you got to understand the historical significance of the Lincoln Highway corridor, especially with the courthouse and the historic nature of it here in Franklin County. While not specifically in our purview, they will need to
evaluate using Clover Place as a main access point for the site. This is a small residential street not intended for the level of traffic traffic. When you you have that, you have it coming off. Jeff, do do you know whether the original design there were two access
points or was it just one? >> They had two access points, but I don't think they restricted rights >> to Clover before. Um, at least this concept here restricts that. So, they can only make a left down towards Route 27. Um, again, you know, I I know that
would that would certainly be a planning board discussion too in the future um as to whether that stays or goes. our our main access point is definitely from Route 27 and we'll get the DOT permitting for that. Um that secondary access
for sure. Mhm. >> So those are the uh out of those notes and what we talked about uh here uh reflect a lot of these um things the
landscape the uh historical architectural findings um and then we just go back to one comment here. trip mall architecture will not be appropriate.
So, uh if you look at the example of 3031 and you look at the example here, um 3031 New Jersey route 27. It's more like a um colonial row house.
um where this here is a um a more modern um strip mall. >> We are attempting to break it up with the facades where you know a typical strip mall that you might think of is
just the one long row. uh you know some of some of the um I think of the strip mall near uh Eastern Avenue and JFK Boulevard um where the uh the McDonald's is there and the uh Fast Bagel is there.
The the other issue is, you know, with the height restriction. I don't know when those other buildings, they look like they've been there for a while. At 30 ft to get a a gamrell roof like it's shown on one or a gable roof, it'll be
so flat it'll the pitch we only, you know, even if we hid the equipment somehow within a call a bathtub, you're only going to get, you know, four or 5 ft of roof. It's going to look very odd. You know, those roofs are about I'm
going to say 12 feet high, 14 feet high. Those buildings are about 30 feet deep or 86 ft deep. So, it it's it's >> I don't have a problem with the way that it's shaped like that.
>> Yeah, I don't either because it is broken up. There's You said each one's kind of at different recesses. >> Yeah, there's five to seven foot 305 is >> people who are living behind it.
>> I mean in the front screen that's what you have I think the the landscape plan wants to put together. >> That's 15 ft back there >> from the back but if you behind it it's not it's not
nice. Yeah, that's why we like with 15 ft back there, we could get a really nice double staggered route and upsells the plings that planning so you can really offer that down there. >> Um, where this doesn't look bad. I'm not saying it looks bad or anything, but
it's appropriate in this area. Uh >> that's what I was looking through the ordinance to see if you had some design standards for certain depths, widths, heights, materials, and it really doesn't speak.
Same for you, unfortunately. I can see you shaking your head. >> But yeah, it doesn't take you down that road cuz you know that also sets the tone. But then it's that height that's really the issue here because I don't think you those two buildings that are
shown they wouldn't get approved today because of the building height >> and the building height is >> 30t by zoning. >> Yeah. Um, again for the people in the back, you don't want it too too tall to We could
look at bringing some of the brick element around the back like some of the water table or a section. >> Yeah, we we can take some of that material, build some pie or something to >> soften that up. >> Yeah. A little more character.
very >> I'm not I'm not going to lie to you. >> Uh but yeah, >> stare at that. That's not nice. >> Yeah, maybe we can do the same pop up like in the middle with the brick and we'll pop up the uh >> the cornice up a couple feet so it it
looks like it has that same shape as the front. And stuckle colors can be varied uh to bring that brick will break some of the brick up. So I think >> how far are the houses behind that? Is it
>> uh 70 ft to the property line? Probably another like you know 40 ft or so. So >> backyards are pretty question. What are you doing to buffer that area? Is there a fence there? Is there vegetation
there? What's separating the parking lot to the neighbors to the rear? >> Ultimately there will be both. I think that relates back to your comment about putting a preliminary um landscape plan, if you will, together. We'll have evergreen plantings back there. Um, you
know, stagger them. Fence is going to be critical there as well because of the the privacy. You don't want, you know, you want that separation from the cars that are parking back there. I would expect mostly the cars in the back would be, you know, employees, you know, so it' be like low turnover. It wouldn't be a lot of nuisance for neighbors. Um, you
know, that solid fence would protect any kind of car lights. Um, wooden wouldn't get into the rear yard and then you'd have the, you know, the double staggered ever growing row to really give it a nice um previously visual.
>> I also would like to see when you come back an aerial shot, >> satellite shot of that area. Yes. >> Is like lighting also is there any >> regulations for lighting on the outside? >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. I mean, so I mean two things I mean there there yes there are lighting design standards lighting requirements in our ordinance going to be during site plan overview to make sure that the lighting is shielded and directed to the site and all that. That's something that
will be done at the site plan level. And as far as historic commission, I would say is there something, >> you know, if there if this was in the middle of East Milstone or something, maybe you'd want some particular type of design >> that gets to the aesthetic, you know,
historic aesthetics. But otherwise, but it's just as far as, you know, lighting impacts to neighbors and stuff like that, that absolutely will get looked at. I'm just looking at a uh a Google um live view or picture of the site and
neighboring properties from both sides and everything. Um, I'm conflicted about, you know, these statements here and and what we're really doing here actually makes, you know, a relatively good point. Um,
is it a nice looking strip mall? Not bad. Not bad at all. Is it right for the area? >> Yeah. No, I really for the area is the question. >> Tell my wife, >> you know, here we're talking about a site that we're saying was the first
courthouse that has some historic uh relevance that there's a monument and a stone and all of that. and then at the same time proposing a um
an ultraodern uh strip mall with wood trim. Um, I don't know if it fits what we're trying to do in that area and
to kind of protect the historic relevance of it. And um looking at all the examples that were pointed out in here um 3031 303 35 30 55
uh 3080 you know we're really looking at apples and oranges um with the first uh consideration was Um, >> so
>> really there was nothing here that was even addressed. Um, strip mall architectured is what you got. Interpretive landscape. We have no idea. Um, >> I I would just submit that I I don't
think that this is an ultraodern design for a strip mall. I I think we we've we've gone around on the breaking up of the facade, the different design elements of the material and texture of the facade. Um and then I also want to note I I recognize that these these are
Andrew's comments and I appear before Andrew a number of times um before we lost him and um you know he used to say we don't want to create a faux sense of history. Um you know we want to do something that's that's appropriate for the zone. So, I I I totally respect what
what he put out there, but it was to a prior plan and I don't know that he looked at this colorized design. Um, so I I don't want to discount anything, but that that's that's what uh we're proposing and I'm hearing from some members of the commission that they do like the way it looks. So I I would be
curious to know um before we do an overhaul or do >> drastic like that. I want to really make sure that everybody >> commission wants that you know have their opinions and uh on on different things and and all. I'm just uh I'm
questioning if if this is the nature of the site not the uh how it looks. In other words, this on another Arion 27 would be perfectly acceptable. It's not a a
terribly uh you know ultramodern kind of thing like like across the street. But at the same point in time, does it reflect the historic nature of the actual site is what we're talking about. not a zone,
not an area, but of that site. The site is the historic nature. That's why we're here today. It's is because it was where the courthouse was. We have that plaque. We have all that. So, the site is really determined the historic
uh design and nature and element of this. I mean, you could take any site and have a wish list and this is what I want to build there, but it may be perfect someplace else. It may not be perfect there. Um,
again, we can go around the board and and we can vote and we can uh opine on different things, but after reading Andrew's notes and looking at his examples, I understand what he uh was expressing at that time.
Yes, we don't have to go over a previous thing of Andrew, but he raises some good points and like I said, none of these points that he raised we have at this point. So does it have a and again I agree uh I
don't want big historic uh structures but tell me what part of this structure has any historic quality the glass windows the stucco
the the stone there's absolutely nothing that has any historic quality quality to it. Um, interpretive landscape. Well, he didn't give us any um historic uh and arch
architectural uh research and findings. We don't have any uh so that's kind of where I'm at. So, um we'll go around the room and and see where everybody else is at. Okay, why don't you
>> is a modern modern look. I'm concerned about what it looks like from the back cuz I think that's just a horrible block at the back. >> Um the Yeah, if you're living nearby it's terrible. Um I think there has to be some more historic feel to it. I'm
not saying it has to be kind of completely mock historic, but um it's very no kind of sense of it being historic site. And also where the plaque's going to go. Be interested to see where that is. Um I know we don't want on the corner because that's no one's going to
see that there. >> Right. Right. >> Where that's going to go and how you is it something you can build around it. I don't know. It kind of becomes a courtyard. I'm not sure how much space you've got that can do anything there. But that's just a thought. But I'm concerned about how how blocky it looks,
especially at the back. >> Yeah, the back, you know, is >> they've got height restrictions and that's a big problem. >> Yeah. >> Sure. >> Um, yeah, I I think it looks a little stripy to me, you know, like contemporary strip
mall. Um, so I, you know, I don't know what the solution is, but um, and I understand uh, you know, that you're trying to make a choice with materials. that but you know when I look at this I I see
something looks pretty contemporary. Um, you know, so I would uh I I too would rather have something that sort of captured more. I don't think you need necessarily an eye roof to do it, but something that would capture
something a little more historically rooted. Um, and you know, and I Yeah. And I do think trying to do something around the um the marker or having the marker,
you know, have having incorporating it instead of just finding a place for it. >> Yeah. Might be a way to >> think that was a great suggestion. Like that's certainly something we can finagle the site a little bit to find a
really nice place that's communal for other I think that's something we could certainly >> adjust on this plan um from a site layout perspective. >> It's just the uh you know we have a historical marker kind of in front of a Chipotle and
>> which Chipotle is great but I it to me it's like jumbo shrimp. You're you're you're trying to add two things here that are oxymoron. >> Uh what's your >> um to me I I think the aesthetics are
fine within our purview. I think we're kind of limited on exactly what we can tell them. Um so I think more I'd rather to Rob's point that
there had to be a full GPR survey. There had to be documentation of what is there and have a nice report done and if there is anything that's there fully documented with maybe some diggings and you know CAD drawings and things like a
full documentation before it's you know asphalt's over and we're never going to be able to find it ever again you know so >> right >> yeah I think that's the main point is just to since what's above ground They're gone.
There was no documentation of it, unfortunately. Uh there's no way to really get back. Um at least documented there's any archaeological resources below ground. Um I mean, I don't know. Has there been any
research done on house? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Just shovel digs here. >> Like is >> they did find some minor things. Nothing that was really >> Yeah. But you're talking about, you know, >> plowing and other stuff that was there.
So there could have been stuff that was, you know, just five feet down. >> Yeah. But has anyone like written Is there any history about the courthouse that was there? >> The history of the courthouse? Yeah, there's history of the courthouse in the county. >> Yeah,
>> but that's early 1700s. >> Okay. So it's pretty far back. Yeah, there's records, >> but some of them were also burnt to caution. >> I don't have too much of a pro. I like maybe a little softening. Uh, you know, I don't like those overhangs. Maybe some
sort of softening. I don't have a problem with um the way it's designed. just just a little softening cuz this looks more like if you go down towards Princeton in South Brunswick on the left
hand side um before you get to 518 that's kind of what this is going to look like. Okay. Um so maybe you don't want it to look colonial. It's not going to fit. Okay. So, you
want to maybe soften it up somehow. Um, how to do that? You're the architects, not me. >> Okay. Um, but that's kind of my feeling. To me, the most important thing is getting that radar. Because if there if
if there's something there that's going to kind of put a damper on some stuff cuz like I said I don't know what's there and you guys don't know what's there. >> So chairman can I can I make a comment? >> No please do.
>> So I I was uh on a tour in Montlair. If you heard of Montlair there's a historic train station Lacuana train station. Uh so the township uh just recently a couple of weeks ago uh reszoned it as a
redevelopment zone and uh gave a uh uh contractor or developer permission to build 300 apartments and 150,000 square foot of square of uh retail space on that uh historic train station. So, but
one of the conditions they put in was they had preserved the sign that there's a notch that says Laka train station. They asked them to preserve and also the old platform they had some um you know uh
what do you call platform decorative frames like they looked like a stress truss uh so they have preserved them. So they asked them to incorporate on the design of the mall. Obviously it's a historic but it's
it's going to be a modern looking mall and a five-story apartment complex. So if we are able to find some artifacts with the GPR survey, perhaps uh they can assemble them and and get some historic
uh uh literature and put some sort of a uh um monument in the front to recreate or provide some um uh visual uh uh elements uh to the historic nature. Uh I
think that could be something that you may want to consider. Yeah. Yeah. Uh depending on what they find, it definitely could be, but I don't know if that is the um you know, putting up a um
a little um >> like a pop-up museum >> display, a little popup museum or something. It's kind of um >> No, you just want >> correct. Well, the first thing you want is the GPR. >> Yeah. >> Okay. And second thing is maybe to
soften up the design. You want to know what vegetation what's going to be uh you know surrounding it to to give it a little little more um I wouldn't say colonial you really you know we're talking about
the 1700s and you know um Lincoln Highway cuz you had slaves that were being brought up through that way too. So now you're in the 1860s. So there's a little bit of change as you're going from century to century to
century. >> So um I I kind of really don't have too much of a problem with that design and you can't make it, you know, one story. >> So relocate of maybe a little park area,
maybe the size of this room. um I wouldn't say a park but a place that you can go and read a little bit. And that was the first courthouse. So >> all right. So we got a couple of things here. uh the GPR vegetation soften the
uh architecture uh a history um um evaluation uh elevation um of the surrounding areas and uh and
aerial um >> yeah you wanted to see what's in the what will affect the neighbors >> yeah so um back to Yes. >> So, I got to figure out how to put this all without a motion here. Um,
and what to do with all this? Um, and then you guys haven't went to zoning and or anything like that yet. No. Yeah. So, this is all preliminary even and we don't know what they're going to do. >> Do we have to vote on anything? I mean, you can come back with advised plans. We
don't want to vote on anything as as submitted. We can >> because we'll just turn it down. >> Well, we we should give them >> the town plan. >> Um, we should give them some sort of notes to come back with. >> Thank you. Yeah, that'll be great.
>> If I can make sure, please. >> I think, you know, as far as, you know, I think it's important for the applicant to get direction from the commission. And I think uh if I could, you know, summarize where I think you stand. I think the direction that you're giving
them is uh two two big picture things. One, I think you're generally okay with the site layout that they're proposing. And I think you're generally okay with the architectural approach. Generally, I haven't heard anything saying you need to completely rehaul, you know, the
overall design and and the overall slight layout and architecture. So, I think that's important for them to hear, but you do have a number of details that you want to hear about. Um, the applicant has not made an application yet to go to for site plan approval. Um,
they haven't met with staff yet. Um, I would suggest that they meet at some time whenever you want. You can come in and meet with the TRC >> and start having that discussion with staff. Um, so I think my what you could decide and Dr. Weaver said before, you
don't have to you don't have to make a decision tonight. I would agree with that. I think again I think you've given them direction on those important details that you need. They can be working on that while they're meeting with staff. There may or may not be some changes based on what they hear from
staff and then they can come back and show you those important details and then at that point perhaps you'll have enough information to make the overall decision. I I would agree with with all of that. And so we don't need to vote, but we we do have
to point out some things for >> Huh. That's why I said we do not have to vote. Um and but we do need to point some things out here that that the questions that were raised. So this is the previous uh document that Andrew uh
um wrote up from a previous meeting. uh you got all those points there that really weren't addressed in any of this. Then we got addition of the ground penetrating radar of the survey of the site. Uh we have vegetation um and softening the the borders
especially towards the rear uh of it. uh we need a historic evaluation and and and you know maybe you could point out where when with the ground fitting radar where the uh foundations of the buildings and things like that. An elevation plan of
the front with some of the uh other buildings to see where where we're at, you know, how this looks in comparison. and then an aerial view of um of how it uh impacts me. Right? That was
pretty much all the different points. So, if you guys got those notes, that's kind of where we are. And um yeah, I'm okay with you continuing on with other talks with town to see what
they need. And um but we're going to be looking for something here. And when you you look at this plan and everything, I'd like you to reflect on this this letter uh here with all these items. Um
and see if you can get them to somehow meet halfway at least with what you have. Well, I mean, that's kind of where we're at. And um so I guess uh
>> so I guess that's where we're at with with things. Do you guys have any other questions or statements, comments? >> I do not. >> Do you? >> I don't. I think Mark had a great suggestion to meet with staff um you know, at a TRC as a next step. You know,
we we heard your comments. Um and we'll we'll definitely start to work to address them especially the Ian mentioned big ones. So um we'll do a lot of things concurrently I think which would be >> Yeah, that's what I do. >> I appreciate I appreciate the feedback. >> No, I thank you for your time and I
appreciate it and I appreciate you coming and um working with us cuz that's what we're trying to do. We're not trying to lay back on on the thing here. We're trying to, you know, meet everybody halfway and and keep with the nature of the uh of the area and the location, uh, but also bring it up to
what, you know, you guys want to do there. So, thank you. >> Appreciate that. Thank you. Yeah. >> Thank you. >> Yeah. You don't want to be digging in the open skeleton, four of them, right? see you >> like the materials there project.
>> Um, no. >> Oh, you just sitting out? >> No, I'm just uh Oh, >> good night. >> Good night. >> Good night. Thank you. >> Here to support you guys and learn about what you do. >> Okay. I just wanted to know if you had a project or anything. So, um, >> I wish I did.
>> That covers uh new business. Do we have any unfinished business that we need to address? >> I don't think so. Um, with that, can I get a motion to open the meeting up to the public? Y
motion by Bob and second by Dave. It is now open to the public. If the public wishes to speak, please do so. Bill, >> go ahead. Um I um it has occurred to me. You >> have to give your name. >> Oh, I'm sorry. I'm Patricia Bacon. Um
I'm a Wilson wrote um Old Meadows person, various stuff. Um when I became the first um reference librarian at the Franklin Township Public Library, the historical collection there consisted of
a file drawer of clippings and one book. And now we have of course this wonderful thing that we we have the the big green book. Anyway, um, do we have any way of creating maybe a map or a
tour little guide of what Franklin looked like 250 years ago? Um, there are there are buildings that were standing. Do we know which ones were? >> That's a good question. >> Just for fun, I mean, a matter of fact, Pat,
>> you know, put us on the map. On Friday, >> haha, literally go. >> On Friday, um, the mayor and I are going to Princeton to look at original maps, um, from when Washington and Roshambo
did their thing, so we may be able to see those. >> Yeah, they weren't satisfied. >> Do we know if there are Erskin maps? >> Oh, sorry. >> The Erskin maps. They're Erskin maps from earlier. >> I don't know. >> Um, those would be uh 76. >> Probably probably we would be able to
get those from the county and eventually I'll be able to get some of that. >> Okay. If I'd be willing to work on this project, but I think you know to Franklin has we got history. >> So kind of be fun to and guys like this
who like you know hey we're you know we played a role in in the revolution and so >> a lot more than people know >> think. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um well Pat um couple of things uh we are working on uh setting up a design guidelines uh book
and so um that would be good to give to the uh the contractors and the developers and the people that kind of know what we we're looking at and even the homeowners to say this is what we're looking at. So, with that, and there's also um thoughts of doing exactly what
you mentioned of outlining the actual historic districts and actual historic houses. There's been talks about maybe doing a tour and doing all those kind of things. Um the third thing is I don't know how
fully u staff this board is. Um, remember I said there were two people. >> Yeah, >> that's one of that's one of them. >> Okay, >> we talked about it. >> Oh, okay.
>> Um, and >> that's why I got this email. I got an email and I'm thinking, okay, I so >> but whether you want to join the board or or not, you know, that could be looked at. But if we do put one of those um committees together, I'd like to loop
you in on that and to be part of um to be part of that because the one thing we we're all volunteers, we all have other lives, you know what I mean? We're not like other entities in the town that we have time to just concentrate on it. So what we need is manpower and help and um
and all of that. And another thought of the the think tank is to kind of work with um the Meadows Foundation and the other organizations here in town to to get that collective information in
and that collective support with things. >> Remember NY's on the Meadows too, >> right? Pat is too and Pat's come to quite a few of our 250 um events. So we we talked about in shop. >> So
>> Oh, okay. >> I I um I'm still recording. >> I'm stuck with big projects over on the other side of the Delaware River um right now with with research and
presentations that I have to make. So I don't I don't think I could sit on >> I totally understand that. That's a heavy that's that's a big slice of cake that you just get handed there. But but I do want to keep you involved in it because uh whatever uh commitment you
can will definitely help out and the knowledge that you have may save hours of research to say no this is what I know about the thing. So after this is over your your uh contact information and that way I'll I'll I'll do it. So,
um, >> Pat CPR atgmail. That was my old job. >> Uh, anything else from the >> motion to close the meeting? >> Yeah, questions closed. >> All right. Um,
upcoming meeting May 5th. Any other um, comments from the board? Anybody would like to make any comments? >> Thank you, Darl, for the names. Um the I know you're going
>> to Martha and George Washington's event. >> Yes. >> I know the mayor's going. >> Y >> um that is not this Saturday but the following Saturday at the Hegamman barn. You saw that, right? >> You saw the Yeah. I can't think that one. >> Um and then there's Patriot Day right
after that on Sunday. And uh we have a couple speakers uh that are going to talk about actually be the character of one person from uh George Luck is going to play one of
the individuals who lived in Kingston at that time and a lot of our other members are going to be um he's he's on Vaness he's on Meadows Um,
>> well, he's going to speak to he's coming into character. >> Who's he going to be? >> I forget what he told me. >> Okay. >> I know. You got a lot in there. >> And I will have a uh one of Washington's guards there and he's bringing all of
his equipment and he's bringing his mustard. >> That's Saturday night. So, if he's okay, Sunday, he'll he's going to do the same thing, but he may be have to go to the Wallace house. >> And I think there's something else.
>> Do you have a list of uh upcoming >> franklin 250.com? Well, I've been to Franklin 250.com, but it doesn't it doesn't have a list of all the upcoming >> uh as of probably today or tomorrow, it will
>> cuz I was I was just on there like >> I'll tell you what they are. So, we have um next week is Georgia Martha Washington and Alicia who plays Martha. I know her. She's lovely. You will you
will she's fantastic. Okay. You you will enjoy that. Um and that's a cocktail reception and it's 50 bucks. >> But that that Huh? >> Is it sold out yet? >> Um no, there's there's still some tickets left. We're we're going to start pushing it. Um and that money goes to
the all the meadows that none of that goes to 250. Sunday is Patriots Day, which NY's got with whole bunch of it's mostly family orientated. You'll be able to make wax candles and butter and see how
it was. As a little kid growing up, you went from playing with toys to picking up a musket. That's what happened. Okay. Um May is
uh Memorial Day. I do that. Um June we confirmed uh we have the Blondenberg band. That's June 20th. I'm >> trying to think of all these dates. That's confirmed that it's going to be at the gazebo. Um,
>> they're going to play all colonial, all soua, all that stuff. Starts at 6:00 on the 20th. July 2nd is our fireworks here. Uh, we have a 5x8 flag.
um where if you saw some of the flags that are out now, they're white letters on a blue background. The 5x8 that we got is going to be blue letters on a white background and everybody who goes to the fireworks will be able to sign
their name on the flag. >> And then eventually that will be folded up and put into a time capsule. Okay. Um you know, we have our coins. >> He he saw them. Yep. >> This is our our new one that's coming
out. Um we haven't gotten them yet, but that's what the new one is. >> All All this is goes to pay for the new events. You can you can walk across the street, Dave. >> Yeah, I know. I
um can show Pat. Um you saw, right? Um, >> August is August 15th is um Franklin Franklin 250 at the Somerset Ballpark
and um we're getting our tickets um and it's going to be Franklin 250 and the tickets are $10 and there'll be a parade at the beginning inviting I think uh police are coming. They're going to be the honor guard, boy scouts, girl scouts, the junior ROC. We'll have two
girls that sang last year at Memorial Day will sing at the parade, the ball game, and then their biggest fireworks. Um, and we have 500 tickets set aside and that's kind of a fundraiser. Um,
that's August. September is Colonial Park slash that's on the 19th in Colonial Park that I'm really working on with uh infantry divisions um a cannon and different
areas you can go to. And then the following Saturday is Franklin Day here. And then that's in September. Um yeah, then I Oh, one other thing uh in August towards the end of August is um
march to Yorktown. That'll be where we're going to close Canal Walk and you'll be able to walk with um Washington and Ro Shambo down Canal Road down in Griggstown. >> Can I pop in that Ro Shambo reenactor is
>> fabulous. >> Absolutely fabulous. The you I I had the shivers when I first saw him where he actually was and uh it it's really he's wonderful. He's a he's a local Franklin guy, isn't he? >> He goes down from
>> Yeah, he's wonderful. >> He lives in Greek Town. >> Yeah. >> And the funny thing is his his house is um was an old tavern. >> 1700s. >> The White Horse tavern where >> white black horse >> black or red? Either one of the two.
Revolution was was planned in the taverns. >> Yes. >> And we don't we we have taverns but I don't again they weren't we can't really document exactly from that early time period. So a lot of Franklin people I think went to New
>> There were two down there. >> Yeah. Down there on that Yeah. There on either ends of town but not Yeah. Sorry. >> That's okay. Um September. Uh and then at the high school at the
September 22nd is uh we we getting confirmation of the you may like this the uh West Point band is going to come to play at the high school.
um can't come September they're you know it's football will be there and then we have um October is going to be an event at um Rockingham where Rockingham will be
open for some tours and then there'll be uh tours inside the boring and then we have another fellow coming from Chicago who's going to talk about uh the French Um all this stuff is spinning in my head.
Um the par the treaty of Paris >> where you had to even give up your possessions or not and slaves at that time were possessions. So that was one of the things that were in the treaty. So it was very very interesting. You may want to you know go into that. That's
that's good to and we just have you know there's every month one or two things. >> Yeah. Thanks for the recap, Bob. And and all that is on franklin 250.com. >> 2502 franklin 250.com. >> And um
with that, I just have a couple of closing uh statements there. I want to thank Mark and and Derek here for uh helping with the transition here. Um Dominic retired and um uh Vince Dominic um and Derek has picked up the the ball
and Daryl Daryl, I'm sorry, but um this is Yeah, first time we're actually >> there's two Darren and one Daryl. >> And um you know, we figured out the TV and and and getting it back on broadcasting. That's good cuz we were off for some time. And um I want to
thank you for all the the hard work and and everything you put together. I like your new spin on things. You know what I mean? So, uh that's good. And um >> so thank you both. Appreciate it. Other than that, motion to uh close. >> I'll make a motion.
>> Motion closed by Bob. Second by Dave. All in favor? I opposed.