##VIDEO ID:7k20lWARQJQ## board meeting for January 8th 2024 and in accordance with the open public meetings act P 1975 chapter 231 adequate notice of this regular meeting of the planning board of the township of Franklin has been provided and if everyone could please stand for the Pledge of Allegiance I pledge aliance to the FL flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all okay so um Pete has already administered the oath of office uh when people were coming in so he did that already uh so everybody can you know is here uh for the reorganization I guess we can start with that before we start roll call is that right Pete or no well you can do roll call First do roll call First yeah okay okay so and now this system I have to hit something every single time I talk so sorry about that okay long you don't hit me well no I'm not GNA hit you okay so Theodore Chase here Bob Lort here Shaw Keller here Mah Rafi here Charles Brown here Mark Dancy here chairman Rini here and for the record uh councilman and barison Jennifer ragnell Robert Thomas and Rebecca Hilbert all asked to be excused this evening and Shaw Keller is the newest member to our planning board yeah and I wanted to say welcome to welcome to Shaw and I I think you you'll have a a fun time here you have a some interesting stuff in the year ahead which we'll get to today um so reorganization um a nomination selection of chairperson so theoretically I shouldn't be necessarily talking but um will uh open the floor for nominations I'll seconded are there any other nominations hearing none the nominations are closed and Christine can you uh call the role Theodore Chase from Mike garcini Bob Lort yes Shaw Keller Mahir Rafi yes Charles Brown yes for Mike Mark Dancy yes and can he vote for himself or okay chairman or or Michael orini no I mean yes um we like it they if they don't vote for themselves a little sketchy yeah so I thank you everyone and and you know in the new system believe it or not you can go back and look click on your name and find out how many terms you've had and apparently the years have passed faster than I gave them credit for CU I think I became chairman in 2010 or something like that no when I was elected to council yeah so and then that's right cuz you were chair before me and then I've been on the playing board since I think 2002 as I started as an alternate and regular member and so what are we looking at man 23 years makes me actually old old yeah but uh yeah I've had a I've had a great time and and you know it's funny because Bob Thomas and I I think we we've both been approached right U maybe you know you want to run for Council you want to throw your name in the Hat and and we're of like mind um we both have a good time on our boards and um you know we don't want to resign and and I think there's you learn a lot here and and you can have a very positive impact on the township so I am thrilled to continue in that role um much the same I would like to nominate uh man to my right who does an excellent job filling in when I'm not around and and uh has been a great member of the planning board U Mr Charles Brown I second are there any other nominations heing none nominations are closed Christine Theodore Chase yes Robert Lort yes Shaw Keller yes Mahir Rafi yes Charles Brown yes for Charles Mark Dancy yes and chairman Rini yes for my vice chair pleas all right um for planning board attorney so the planning board attorney um we we have uh as I understand one firm and that is Clarkin and vigolo um and so uh there there are no other nominations um well Mike just just for the record we did we did get two both firms were notified but only one is here only one is here okay so then we have one uh cuz if they want to show up they probably want it that bad um so uh if the board has any questions for Peter um as as an interview um I mean we all know his work I don't have any but I'll throw it open to the board if the board has any questions been disbarred in the last year I have not oh there you go I am still licensed to practice law as as my partner Jim Clarkin um you know has your knowledge of land use and planning law degraded in the last 12 months if anything it is it is increased it's been enhanced by my opportunities especially in the township of Franklin wow that's a good answer all right so um I obviously um you know Jim and Pete have been with us for a number of years uh we obviously have the you know affordable housing lift this year um revisions to the master plan and elements of the master plan and um they very experienced and um you know even if there was another forign firm here I would argue that um Changing Horses in Midstream especially a very qualified firm is is not advisable so I would nominate Clarken in violo for planning board attorney second Ste okay uh Theodor Chase yes Bob Lort yes Shaw Keller yes Mahia Rafi yes Charles Brown yes Mark Dany and chairman Rini yes thank you all very much thank you Peter um so we already did the roll call so we know he's here um so we just have to go through these uh sped of minutes so um actually if I could oh you need to swear yourself in or have Mar I need to swear Mark in so okay swear Mark in quickly oh yeah it said witness oath director of planning I thought there you go so do you swear that any testimony you provide during this calendar year will be the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth I do and just for the record your planning license is still valid and in good standing yes I'm a professional licensed professional planner in New Jersey and a member of the American Institute of certified planners perfect thank you excellent thanks Mark or um thanks Pete and thank you Mark um so minutes um first set would be regular meeting of October 16th 2024 and uh Chris I know you'll let us know who can vote on these okay so the only people who can vote for October 16th is Theodore Chase and Charles Brown October 16th sorry Mr cour did I miss him I did you're right worries okay all you fight it out who wants to make a motion ahead Charles motion to accept the meeting the regular meeting minutes for October 16th 2020 2024 I'll second okay so Bob Lort Charles Brown yes and Ted Chase yes okay uh meeting regular meeting for November 6th who's who can participate in this for November 6 it is just Theodore Chase Robert Lort Mahia Rafi Charles Brown Mark Dancy and chairman arini oh that's a pretty good lineup um I'll make a motion to approve second Theodore Chase yes uh Robert Lort yes Mah Rafi yes Charles Brown yes Mark Dancy chairman Rini yes and last but not least the regular meeting for December 4th 2024 uh Theodore Chase Mahir Rafi Charles Brown chairman orini I'll move to approve second Theodore Chase yes Maha Rafi yes Charles Brown yes chairman orini yes uh resolution of 12 31 Properties LLC pln 2324 didn't participate in this exercise um Theodore Chase Robert Lort Charles Brown and Mike orini I will move to approve second okay uh Theodore Chase yes Robert Lort yes Charles Brown yes Mike orini yes um so there was three discussion items so the first one was a application before the minor subdivision committee um which Maha and I attended with Mark earlier tonight um it's for 179 Cedar Grove Lane um it is a flag lot subdivision um fully compliant as it must be to be before the minor subdivision committee even with the um more um constrictive uh uh buffers and and a lot area that flag Lots require um and so um we would make a recommendation to to approve this and Mark will um tell us a few things about the property that um during the subdivision committee we agreed um that we should specifically know yeah and and and and actually for the record the minor subdivision committee approves it this is a a reporting to the board yes um so their board is aware of your action um yeah bottom line I I'm not going to repeat what what the chairman just um summarized bottom line is uh there was staff reports with a number of different um recommendations the main um recommendations that the subcommittee um approved as conditions was the um that the limit of disturbance needs to be as reflected on the plan that was submitted um because a good portion of the rear of the site is proposed to remain undisturbed so the committee wanted to retain that um they need to address um certain uh ordinance requirements like the tree ordinance and the stormw ordinance all of which the applicant will have to address at the time of building permit um so the committee recommended um approval or not recommended approved it subject to all of the terms in the TRC report thanks yeah that was basically it and and you know one of the things just so the board is aware um their limit of disturbance was quite conservative um but we we took their word for what was on the plan and should they need to clear more than that they will have to come back to the minor subdivision committee um but otherwise it was a compliant application so we approved it um and they I assume that it will be when they come back to build something that we dis discuss compliance with the tree ordinance so the tree ordinance they'll have to comply with that straight up um you know for their limited disturbance and if they if they disturb any more they're going to either have to they're going to have to comply with either payment in lie or replanting on site whether they disturb what they say they're going to disturb or disturb more it won't be back but yeah okay so they are proposing at this point to take down some trees some and you know Marcus in his planning opinion thought they may have to do a little bit more because of some dry Wells and things um but we're going to hold them to the plan the resolution is going to say your plan is you if they think they can build within that limit that's that's great they don't have to take those trees down if they do they're going to have to comply with an increased obligation just at the environmental commission we had some discussion of the fact that the the plan has submitted didn't discuss uh tree removal and tree replacement yeah they're going to have to they're going to have to comply with that will come up later yeah um turn it over to mark for uh a little update on Redevelopment study no they don't do so um I'm going to bring up my computer here see if if I can get this done correctly oh clerk station that's what I need to do so uh as uh the board is aware and I think at the last meeting um I gave a um based on some questions from the chairman uh overall uh overview of uh the fact that the town like most of the towns in New Jersey have been provided an affordable housing obligation and we're in the beginning stages of figuring out uh frankly how we're going to address that um the first part of that is um there is a opportunity to uh review the the number that they gave us and we're um going to be uh most likely the council's going to be adopting a resolution um accepting a number lower than what the state gave us um but then in the months following um between now and June 30th the township needs to adopt a plan indicating how we're going to address the obligation um the one thing that and what's on after this is uh appointment of an affordable housing subcommittee so we'll talk about that in a few minutes and the council is also going to be um setting up a already has set up an affordable housing subcommittee and the plan is to have basically have those subcommittees meet um collectively and talk about uh the different options for meeting the obligation one of the things that we're addressing um at the beginning here because this is kind of a uh uh along processes there's one portion of the town that the council has um uh passed a resolution asking the uh planning board and this is the way that the law Works to do a uh Redevelopment study to see if certain properties are qualify as an area in need of Redevelopment um and the reason and the properties that we've were're looking at are um so this kind of looking at the screen this is uh Franklin bll I mean I'm Sor this is Hamilton Street with with my cursor there this is Franklin Boulevard and if you're aware there's that kind of derel how to say it torn down worn down office building on Franklin Bullard and Lewis there's the um uh undeveloped or or vacant property uh between Lewis and and uh Martin um there's a boarded up house over here you know on Martin um and a few other properties um generally in this area um and we're we're looking at this as a possible site as uh you know I think there's probably going to be a few sites that we're going to have to include in our plan um but we're looking at this site um uh kind of off the bat um there are a number of different um bonus credits if you will for if you do affordable Housing and Redevelopment areas if you do 100% affordable so this is that we're kind of looking at as as a potential site to help us meet Our obligation and since the Redevelopment process takes a very long time and we have until June 30th to do a plan we wanted to kind of have the option to include this plan um you know in in in in our in our affordable housing plan what the the way that it works is that again the council does a resolution asking the planning board to do the study um we're going to we have a um consultant that works for CME that's going to do the report and present that to you and then you'll ultimately make the recommendation whether you you know um want to recommend that that area be designated as an area in need of Redevelopment and then what that does is again it it basically gives the township uh a lot of control on how you wish this area to be redeveloped if you want to include this in the plan um bottom line is again we really don't have a plan for this site yet this is to just have the option to include it is really the summary so um there's really nothing for for you to do at this point Peter I don't think there's really any any the council did the resolution there's really nothing for the planning board to do at this point until the study's done and it's prepared and and presented to the board and you have the hearing there's really nothing for them to do other than be be aware that it may be coming down the pike and and you know they should understand that that'll be something they're called upon to do but then that study would be either uh you know accepted or or not accepted by the board they make the recommendation to the council the council then takes action on it and then once that's been done assuming that it has been designated then the plans prepared which allows them to make you know essentially um ad hoc uh zoning standards for that property um you know it's it's it's the opposite of what people get concerned about which is spot zoning it's about the only time you can actually make site specific standards for particular properties y so you know so that's basically it um that's really kind of an FYI for the board um so let's just throw it open to the board to see if anybody has any questions or any concerns do we have a number the number that the state gave us is 714 wow yeah um again we're we're looking at um that number was based on a number of different factors including um the state's identification of vacant land um I'm in the process right process right now of evaluating their identification there is a number of um properties that are indeed not vacant and developable so we expect that number to be lower um like when they GIS map something like to a detention Basin and say that's open or if it's open space and they're not aware CU according to Mark they had very little time to actually do the GIS mapping so um and when they do on a Statewide basis so there there are definitely you know so that number will be lower and and as we move through the process um you know obviously we'll you know with the subcommittee and and at the appropriate time through the process we'll have updates with the planning board um it's it's not going to be 600 625 new units necessarily we are exploring you can do up to 25% of your obligation can be in the form of bonus credits um so we're obviously going to explore that um there are other things like extending controls where if there's an existing affordable housing unit and if you're if you're able to um negotiate with the owner of that development and extend it for you know those affordable controls for another period of time um so we're going to explore that we NE we can't promise that obviously it's up to uh that's a kind of a negotiation with those owners of those complexes um but that was you know my opinion that would be a wonderful thing it's kind of a a win-win you know those affordable units stay affordable um without having to create new units um so we're definitely going to explore that pretty aggressively early on and you know as we hopefully make some progress on some of these different things we'll keep the board you know up to date where we are yeah and so overall my Approach has been to sort of asked Mark to you know do their do do the work necessary without any uh necessary um I don't know interference politically or any other way uh you know to just do do the work necessary in the facts and then as we know the facts to roll them out to the board um um for discussion CU I mean ultimately we will approve this plan it it is it is part I mean Council obviously has to do any rezoning or whatever based on our recommendations but um ultimately this this Falls squarely in our wheelhouse and of course Council has to do some things as well and um obviously we want to be you know uh in harmony with Council we don't want to be working at Cross purposes but you know um again just keeping um any cross talk out of the process as much as possible and kind of focusing on on the facts in hand letting planning professionals do the planning um generally results in a pretty good outcome so that's kind of yeah and that's really that's really the first part of the process is that identification of vacant land but there there will have to be decisions made by the planning board and the council and that's why we formed those subcommittee so that can you know that discussion can be kind of worked out and then as necessary in the full board and full Council need to make decisions we you know bring those to those bodies so that's an excellent segue to the last thing which is an affordable housing subcommittee so um Mark council is forming an affordable housing subcommittee can I ask a question go to that of course are there any other areas in Franklin that are being considered other than this we've had I'll just say we've had um this is the one where the township ship because of the condition I think because of its location um you know near Hamilton Street near existing affordable housing and because of the condition of some of these properties you know it certainly meets a definition for uh Redevelopment um I don't think anybody could say particularly that one building is not blighted um so you know that's the area that's the one area that the township has identified at this point of okay this is a site that we should be looking at and that's basically as far as we've got yeah and and let's let's be let's be circum the one reason we need to be probably I don't want your question answered in public is because with property owners like become aware of this type of thing then weird stuff can happen um so when the council actually makes a a determination that something's in need of Redevelopment like this area and they refer it to us that's when we can kind of talk about it in public yeah but I would not speculate as to other areas I'm I'm not I'm not in fact I know you answer was going to be get an answer my answer is we've had other developers who said hey we'd love to help you and I'll just leave it at that yeah thank you I I have a question also Mark um I'm a fan of affordable housing but Redevelopment and affording affordable housing aren't necessarily you know uh synonymous with one another so what do you do about the concern of concentrating now affordable housing in that part of town giving it Hamilton Street business Corridor um the revitalization that's happening there and what that can mean in terms of the adverse impacts of making that decision well my answer to that would be that that you're you're you're not the first to bring that up I think that is going to be one of the issues that the council the planning board and its subcommittees are probably most likely going to be looking at you know what is the best distribution if you will of affordable housing throughout the township um you know I think I think you could understand that you know there are certain areas of the town like this area where it is uh there is better ACC you know you know access to public transportation as opposed to use an extreme Canal Road you know uh or access to um local Services you know shopping things like that but then again you have to balance it with okay let's not put it all in one area um so what I would suggest is I think the Chairman's going to ask for volunteers to be on the subcommittee um and you know he's asking for volunteers so and and you know Charles makes an excellent point I mean we probably do want to see other areas that said it it doesn't it doesn't make so I mean I I'm all for affordable housing as well and and the Township's done an excellent job um but there is theory and there's reality and the reality is that putting I don't know an affordable or 20% affordable or some development um out on copper mine Road for example um just to use something is probably not the best planning alternative right you you want you want development and whether it's affordable or not quite frankly you want residential development to be to be and I know this was Charles near and dear your heart walkable accessible to public transportation accessible to Services um and you know some people say oh well you know you're you're concentrating it that that you know in in in a part of town that is you know maybe lower income than say G griggstown or Canal Walker or someplace where you find glass houses and mansions but that's not the that's not the case here it's just a plan it's just sound plan um you know we are not um we brought this up actually we're having a a sidew at a minor subcommittee you know Short Hills what's their obligation do they do they have it and they actually do but I mean those are communities back in the day um and Ted will remember this and I'm sure Pete does and and Bob I'm sure you do where you could you could trade right you could say I don't want anything in Franklin but Camden newer were Jersey City were receiving areas right for affordable housing they got a lot of money they could Revitalize right and towns Like Short Hills and Sumit and maybe Basking Ridge or someplace where you know Far Hills where they have the races and stuff um would would get out of their entire of affordable because they they do they they're they're a sending area to a receiving area so obviously people got wise to what were trying to do and they can't do that anymore um and then coal got abolished and we have this new this new framework but there was there was a time when um that was actively happening and that's not what we're about buy your way out oh absolutely and many towns did but those days are Regional contribution agreements there you go RCA so um to the to the last matter at hand Council will have an affordable housing subcommittee as will we and we will hopefully meet at the same time so we can all sing Kumbaya as soon as Tuesday evening by the way so yeah I I guess I'm free um so um I think I I as Sher I definitely need to be on it um mahare um I asked her at the minor subcommittee uh so we have we have we have two we kind only Max of four um other volunteers that are here to I was thinking of you but I just wanted to give you a chance but yes um and you know it's not experience from several rounds oh yeah you know and and you know I like i' like i' like a distribution of of folks because you know the folks that learn It ultimately they're on the board long enough they become Ted me um but if you don't get a chance to learn it then then you're not so um anybody else I I think the obligation is is going to be some Med um it's not going to be a Light Lift it's not going to be the heaviest lift in the world but um it it it it is going to be worthwhile and of course it'll all come back to us as a board as a whole so are any other volunteers bob L Court okay um so I think we have our I'm one because I have other I think I think we have our four well the other person I was going to suggest or ask and again this this kind of works against what I just said was Bob Tom but I don't want to again he's not here of course when you're not here you get volunteer I'll defer to Bob but no let's do with those four and we can always have as long as we don't have a quorum of five at any one place we can have a quote an alternate so like if you can't make it Bob can do it but I'd like to have some like variation um and you know so if if somebody says oh W I didn't realize it was that and I can't do it we we'll ask for another volunteer well yeah well I can I'm not going to Vol I'm going to go with who's here tonight but then yeah there's there's some folks that are out that that could potentially be interested I I I don't know if Jen would just because of her teaching obligations and whatever she does but um I don't know what night she'd be free but we can always we go with those four for now and we'll we'll we'll go from there if that doesn't work so that will be our subcommittee so me mahare Ted and Bob look what with with uh anybody on deck or in the cleanup Circle to be announced um we will have a meeting next week because we did not have a meeting obviously on New Year's Day I think anybody would want to be here um so we do have we do have one next week um and do I need to announce um Peter the Deferred hearings to a room that is empty or I don't think any another more F another notti is M yeah just for just for the right because you know someone were watching they could understand all right so um Hamilton Street management um is carried uh to February 19th with no further notification needed and just the record that's pln 24002 and it's carried to February 19th 2025 at 7:30 p.m. in this room very good okay and similarly uh Hsu Property Holdings LLC pln 2314 is carried to April 2nd 2025 with no further notification needed and it will be at 7:30 p.m. in this room thanks okay so your next meeting is onx and it is going to be held at the Franklin uh Board of educ next week the 15th they got they are I'm to told them oh well I'll talk I'll talk to Jim about that we'll see I want to hear from them I don't want him just coming saying oh we're Comming cuz I'm not going to hear them okay they need they need access and they need to work out Texas Eastern otherwise we don't have a plan and I hate my time being wasted okay also the board so if if uh that happens and we have to cancel then I'll send out the email telling you it's canceled uh Shaw I I'll you know I know you're new here you know where the Franklin board of education is on 27 it's uh a little bit past the um soccer field and I'll show you but anyway um and it will be held there um it's the only room big enough so wait let me let me read it into the minutes I mean not that I have to but yeah oh I don't have to never mind okay yeah but it's the next meeting just so you're aware I'll I'll make sure that it's on your email when it goes out too just to remind you I so I'll I'll talk to J I'll call gym tomorrow and and see cuz I already have told him and he's more than agreed so they may have told you oh we're ready to come and that's fine and dandy if they don't have Texas Eastern worked out if they don't have access permission through old New Brunswick Road across from the shop right which is not their access then we don't have a plan and I don't hear them until we have that plan cuz that's what I sent them away for back in I know when it was July or whatever and and I'll send them away again so I don't want us to go all out there in the cold and okay you can just communicate to me and let me know Mark and I actually just let Mark and I know sounds good all right with that um I won't open the public session because there is no one here anybody anybody everybody can document that no one is here um so I will move to adjourn second all in favor laptop we bring our the old Onyx plans that we have for