first part of the agenda so is 15 minutes yep as I noticed that's why we're starting uh so um in accordance with the open public meetings act P 1975 CH 231 one adequate notice of this regular meeting the planning board of the township of Franklin has been provided if everyone could please stand
for the Pledge of Allegiance I pledge aliance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for
all okay um Mark Dancy asked to be excuse this evening councilman andaron here Theodore Chase here Robert Lor here Shaw Keller here Jennifer ragnell here Mahia Rafi
here Charles Brown here Robert Thomas here Rebecca Hilbert here and chairman arini here um minutes from the regular meeting from January 8th do I have a motion um councilman and borison Jennifer ragnell
Rob Robert Thomas Rebecca Hilbert cannot vote um I'll I'll move to approve I'll second Theodore Chase yes Robert Lort yes Shaw Keller yes Mahir Rafi yes
Charles Brown yes chairman Orsini yes number of resolutions tonight first one rers prep pln 24001 zero Robert Lor and Shaw Keller cannot vote I'll move to approve
second councilman abaron yes Theodore Chase yes Jennifer ragnell Yes Mah Rafi yes Charles Brown yes Robert Thomas yes Rebecca Hilbert yes chairman orini yes Macedonia Church of God in Christ
International Shaw Keller Robert Thomas Rebecca Hilbert cannot vote I'll move to approve second councilman andaron yes Theodor Chase yes Robert L yes Jennifer ragau
Mah Rafi Charles Brown yes chairman orini yes uh foundation of the W campus Robert Lort Shaw Keller cannot vote move to approve second councilman of Barson yes Theodore
Chase yes sha oh Jennifer ragnell Yes Mah Rafi yes Charles Brown yes Robert Thomas Rebecca Hilbert and chairman arini yes uh resolution to appoint the planning board attorney firm of Carin and vulo I
think you all can vote on that okay we just um can we do it by affirmation or do we need to do if he says it's okay I have no problem that okay all right um move to approve second all in favor I okay oppos motion carries
unanimously uh planning board appointment of special counsel can do um Peter what that that's he can't sit for some reason like if there's a conflict of interest we have to use someone else okay got it got it got
it all right special that's what you thought not um okay U motion motion to approve second all in favor motion carries uh discussion items we have none
public comments uh move to open the meeting for any general planning comment not associated with the um one hearing that we oh great that I just closed my second yeah let's do that all in favor I okay meeting is open for any
general planning comments seeing no takers uh move to close second it all in favor I I I so we have one hearing tonight um let me go to
what I just closed by accident all right so the hearing is uh Hamilton Street Management LLC pln 24002 Mr Lin you're up a little early
tonight right ladies and gentle gravitas most likely did you want eventually I want to stay you get okay how about this one okay ladies and gentlemen of the planning board my name is Francis P
lindis my offices are at 11 Clyde Road here in sunny Somerset New Jersey and I'm Absol Ely pleased to represent Hamilton Street Management LLC tonight on a very fascinating project in your hbd Zone uh this is an application for
preliminary and final site plan approval for a project located at 681 685 Hamilton Street it's identified on your tax map as block 218 Lots 1 to9 and it's a 0.52 Acre Site located on the Northern
side of Hamilton Street between Bayer Avenue and North left over drive the site has Frontage on all three streets so it is constrained with three frontages it is located in the Township's Hamilton Street business
District zone that's your hbd Zone and it currently contains a one-story commercial building it's a barber shop I think it's veto's head shop a detailed a detached garage and a paveed parking area surrounding properties consist of
commercial uses and mixed us buildings with commercial uses on the first floor apartments above along Hamilton Street with residences located to the rear or the northern portion of the property of the site now we're looking for approval
of of the proposed development and involves construction of a three story mixed use building three stories are allowed in your Zone consisting of 4,605 square ft of commercial use on the first floor and 18 apartment unit on the
second and third floor there will be six proposed six one-bedroom units and 12 two-bedroom units we're also proposing a 38 space parking lot including six EV spaces and they're proposed behind and
underneath the building with two-way vehicular access proposed for both Bayer Avenue and North do Drive other site modifications include construction of associated Landscaping lighting and storm water utility improvements and let
me pause there for storm water utility improvements one of the reasons that it took a long time to get here was my client and his engineer worked very closely with your staff and your engineer to hopefully resolve an off-site storm water management problem
and we think we've done it and uh the hearing was deferred until we took care of that and I believe we have taken care of that uh the applicants also seeking two bulk variances parking lot setback uh the Zone requires a parking lot setback
of 20 ft it varies with respect to the site constraints that we have and I think it goes down to at least at one point of the property to 05 feet and we're also seeking a c variance or a bulk variance for the buffering requirements from schedule six that
requires screening on the north side of the property which abuts a residential property boundary uh and you need at least 5 ft in width and we simply don't have the room and you'll hear testimony from our planner I intend to introduce three
Witnesses tonight my first witness will be ashra RAB he's from Amar design studio and he's the applicants architect he has a digital presentation uh of about seven sheets and we'll mark it as exhibit A1 when we
get there uh it includes what we believe Mr Healy wanted with respect to a three dimens itional view or rendering if you will that's a portion of the plans it ALS It's s it's absolutely similar to the plans that are on fire more plans
and elevations except we were going to eliminate an elevator but we're putting the elevator back in because of ADA requirements and you'll hear from Ashraf on that issue our second witness is Adan KH from awz engineering he's the
applicant civil engineer and he prepared the plan and supervise the plans that are before you this evening along with the Eis the traffic impact study Etc and all the documents storm waterer documents that are before you and then finally we have John teina he's a
principal in all things Planning and Development LLC is an interesting name and he's our applicant's licensed professional ATT I also have with me the owners of the property uh and I intend to have Akash Derry he's a principal a
managing member of Hamilton Street Management LLC he's available for questioning I don't intend to introduce him with formal testimony although the board or the public may have questions as the owner okay without further Ado I'd like
to call ashra Rab good evening if I could just have you raise your right hand do you swear the testimony going to provide us the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth if you could state your name spell your last name and give us your address please for the record r a g a uh ashra RAB r a g a b the address is
two Division Street sweet 1 Somerville New Jersey 08876 okay you could have a c Dash okay you want to give the board and members of the public over here the benefit of your educational and professional background qualifications and experience yes I'm a principal am design
studio uh licensed in the state of New Jersey since 2001 is your license current in good standing yes uh graduated from City College of New York in 1994 it's been a while have you testified before planning boards and zoning boards yes I did okay
and how many of those uh boards have you testified before roughly is Frank he's accepted um just can you please um bring your microphone close and speak right into it kind of like I'm doing um so we can recording can pick
you up please all right ashf you have a digital presentation and you also brought brought along with you uh handout copies for the board and the board professionals that's correct I'm marking uh the proposed three-story mixed use building as exhibit A1 cons
consisting of seven sheets and I put a date on it and we're handing it out to the board and the board professionals who gets the original I don't think I have enough for conveniently labeled A1 through A7 already okay Ashraf uh you've indicated
that you've uh did you prepare would you characterize exhibit A1 uh these are the the set that was uh submitted uh to the board for review with the exception of uh uh just the renderings were added in
the last two sheets uh as requested by uh the planner review and uh there was one change that we will ask to be disregarded which is uh the elevator uh the elevator uh had uh uh been removed
from these plans but it will uh go back so we are reverting back to the original plans uh that were submitted uh there will be no change in them so just to clarify but for the renderings which are attached to this exhibit everything else
everything else is the same and that's been on file with the board yes okay uh so the building is a three-story uh mixed juice uh building uh with retail uh and a parking in the
ground floor there's a retail strip along Hamilton uh Street uh and a main entrance for the building uh and behind the retail there is a parking lot that uh uh has uh parking spots for the residential unit uh there
is an entrance from uh the parking lot straight into uh the lobby area uh um actually actually no uh from the parking lot you would have to go around
to go into the uh the lobby and there is some bike racks as required by the uh Township in the parking area also uh there's two uh uh retail spaces uh facing Hamilton Street and on the corner
of Hamilton and uh be uh Avenue uh is the entrance uh on a diagonal uh 45 Mr RAB if I could just interrupt for one second As you move through A1 if you could just refer to what page you're on I'm on page a02 perfect thank you I just
want to make it easier for everybody ground uh the ground floor plan uh and that pretty much covered uh the ground floor uh there is two staircases that go up all the way to the third floor and again the elevator is going to
be there in the lobby uh there is a trash room uh facing the park lot uh that uh receives the trash from uh shoot uh that goes up to the upper floors uh
and it's accessible from uh the parking area and there is a sprinkler SL uh mechanical room uh that's uh accessible from the lobby there's also a package room and a laundry room uh that is common for the whole building facing
Hamilton Street and it's accessible also from the lobby uh the rest of the ground floor is the two uh commercial spaces they're not designed for any particular use their pretty much vanilla boxes at this point
uh TBD on the tenant okay okay you want to identify what you're referring to next sheet A3 a-03 which is the uh second and third floor plans
uh they are pretty typical uh there's uh a single load Corridor uh facing the parking lot along the L shape of the building uh and it accesses all the apartments uh there is a mix of one and
two uh uh bedroom apartments uh and again the elevator and the two staircases one staircase will be at each end of that hallway uh and uh you know they're typical
Apartments uh we try to make all the units have uh a street view uh or uh exterior view uh from all the rooms uh except maybe for one exception uh all
the The Living Spaces uh bedrooms are required to have Windows but the Living Spaces all have Windows uh along Hamilton Street all the living rooms uh have window access on Hamilton along the sides there's only one unit that got tucked in the corner where the Living
Spaces are windowless but the bedrooms are uh with view on there and now we're moving to uh a-04 uh which is uh the elevations uh you know there's retail
storefronts along Hamilton uh with entrance of the commercial spaces uh and the building uh the we try to uh abide by the uh uh Redevelopment Zone uh
standards for the elevations the height the uh changes in the parit uh so as to not create a single height building uh we are using uh three uh material as
stipulated by the Redevelopment Zone there's brick there's uh cement fiber panels uh and there's some uh stone at the bottom uh as a base uh the
elevations are consistent all around uh there's not that much uh change in the material or the colors uh from all four sides uh also as stipulated by the development Redevelopment Zone uh we are
as screening the parking lot at the uh ground floor with uh a masonry wall uh that's about uh 3 and A2 4 foot high uh and the rest uh by uh slats that are
semi transparent so you can actually see inside uh the parking lot but it is uh screen for security uh sheet a-05 are the same elevations with
the colors uh uh and then uh the when it comes to the colors we try to uh emulate to a certain level the building next door which is owned by the
same uh owner of this building uh Mr Kos and his partners own uh the existing four-story building uh right next door along Hamilton Street so uh we tried to come up with close colors uh that to
have Unity along Hamilton since it's the same owner uh sheets uh 8-6 and 8-7 are color renderings uh they were requested by uh the plan they requested both by Mr maai the board Consulting engineer and as
well as Mr Healey the board planner planner yes uh that show the massing of the building along Hamilton and uh along uh the two side streets and also the parking in the back uh uh the parking uh
entrance and exits are side to side uh uh along the two side streets uh and there is a two way traffic uh from uh Bayer to North D and uh perpendicular parking on both
sides uh and the parking is screened all around uh there's going to be a solid fence uh the site engineer will testify to that on the back of the property and the screening is along the two sides uh from the street sides how does how does
this compare the projections that you you've just indicated on a-06 how does this compare to the remainder of the hbd district or these better presentations or they uh Ian we' like to be that you know we're trying to
be consistent with the hbd regulations and uh you know we're trying to do something that you know uh the owner and the tenants would be happy with uh a-7 are just additional renderings in the parking lot there's a aial view of the building showing the
parking in the back of it uh and also there is a street view of the facade along Hamilton okay uh Mr RAB are you familiar in Your Capacity as the applicants architect with the Hamilton Street
design standards I believe so yes and do you believe that the presentation that you're making tonight and the plans that are on record and what we're requesting are consistent with the Hamilton Street design standards yes yes and we are willing to uh whatever enhancements that
will be requested we are willing to add them on uh so we will be asking for no waivers in terms of the hbd standards all right then these were uh referenced in comment number two to Mr Haley's February 4th 2025 memorandum is that
correct that's correct okay now what about the U his comments with respect to architecture on page four the elevations the screening wall design and the attached light fixtures uh
sure okay we're now referring to Mr Healey's February 4th 2025 memorandum specifically on page four beginning with his other comments uh the signage will comply with
The Zing ordinance uh Frankie you're referring to the first bullet I believe the witness is referring to U what appears on the top of page five I'm I'm referring you back to page four ashra
uh yes the there was a comment that uh this building is too similar to uh another building that uh was designed by my firm uh 789 Hamilton it has not been built
yet it has been approved by this uh board uh and I did review the fully the design of 789 Hamilton and I can assure you it's not uh it's not like identical by any means uh there are similarities
but these similarities also because they were designed by the same firm uh and because of the limitations of the hbd standards and the site configurations which are similar uh so both buildings have the parking below the retail along
Hamilton and the three stories above uh there are different colors and uh different uh uh uh treatment and the design of the units is quite different all right ASF are you confident that uh you can and
will comply with the reasonable requirements in Mr hey and his report yes okay now I'm going to refer you to the February 4th 2025 environmental commission comments uh one of their comments had to do with the roof and is
the roof ready for solar panels panels it is a flat roof so yes as long as we uh tuck the uh HVAC units to to one side uh the rest of the roof would be uh uh ready for solar panels we would just
have to make sure that the structure is designed with solar panel loads uh calculated in okay and uh the applicant you spoke to the applicant the applicant would like to defer a decision later on as to whether they would actually install solar panels it would depend on
the number of factors that may exist in the future yes the roof will be ready for solar panel installations it will be uh a decision of the uh of the owner to install them all right once again exhibit A1 is is similar to it it's
exactly the plans that are on file with the board except it did not show an elevator and we're now reinstating the elevator that's correct because of the ADA requirements yes okay I have no further questions of this witness so Frank can I if I could just
ask you to have him go get a little bit more specific sure I mean so just as far as the similarity with 789 I mean what I heard was there'll be different colors different materials yeah could you provide a little bit more detail on what
that means I mean how do they differ and how are they similar I mean I reviewed the design for uh uh 789 the windows are similar but the treatment of the facade is not I believe uh 789 has some
vertical metal panels I believe or uh uh something like that uh and the the spacing of the facades is completely different 789 has uh different design for the units where the living dining areas don't have Windows only the
bedrooms are on the facade uh while this one uh all the units have Windows on the facade U and uh uh from living as well as back spaces
uh so uh it is both are single loaded corridors uh with Apartments along uh the perimeter and both have parking underneath the building so there are similarities the the storefronts are different from both uh uh 789 has a lot
more glass on the first floor uh than uh 685 uh so uh it's quite different I mean massing is similar uh because of the height restrictions and because both are three stories with retail on the first
floor and two floors of Apartments okay uh if if I could refer you to the that my first bullet on page four where I mentioned the building elevation along North do a and if I could ask you to you
know pick the 3D rendering I I think on a06 the bottom right hand corner shows that um design and that's the one that in my you know in the in the flat elevations it's really difficult to
understand what that would look like so that's why I asked you to provide 3D rendering so if you could go to that page and zoom in and and show the board what that's going to look like uh the lower lower right hand corner on sheet
06 that's left uh right hand corner this one here yep okay so can what would you like to well can you explain what's proposed I mean looks like there's a building which street is
this facing is it over this is uh facing north do and uh the brick uh facade with the vertical Windows is the staircase uh that goes uh up to the third floor uh the two uh cement fiber panel areas are
the apartments uh uh so the window treatment is different for the steer because they follow the steer as it goes up uh uh and uh the rest of the facade is pretty typical similar to Hamilton Street facade okay but
structurally you have a I'm going to call it a Calver you have this steel structure and then the building is only over part of that yes I mean so this is I like that I think it looks it's unorthodox I don't know how
else to say that and I'm wondering if you're driving down North do is that going to frankly is it going to look odd well I mean we have we're not Structural Engineers so we haven't we haven't designed this building uh uh by
structural engineer yet so there's two options either to Civ this full portion of the building and move those columns to the the the left side of the parking instead of these two columns being on the right side of the parking they would move to the left we can't put them in
the middle under the building so they would have to be at the end of the cars either on the left side or the right side so for now we put them on the right on the right side so because you know that's for me that's easier than Kent
deling you know about 20 ft uh uh over the parking uh so we are just putting the two columns and the beans uh to support the building but there will there will be no uh structure other than that so this is not a a covered area
it's open it's just pretty much steel okay and then can I don't know if the board I'm just bringing these to the board's attention and I don't know what can you go to the moving to the other side which would be
the lower leftand corner MH if you can bring that up can you describe to the board that screen if you could that is the screen of the part parking lot can you can you zoom out M so so I I raised this in my report why does it go the full length of the of
of the frontage beyond the building just for consistency purpose but we could stop it at the building only and then you know rever back to a a 6 foot uh screen uh but Mark in your report right this
with this screen or fencing right you referred to the fact that if along the parking lot right it could be damaged and so you would prefer no that's a this that's a different area different area yeah this is this is a long this is a long beay okay yes and I I just again I
I it it I'm not sure what the purpose is and I I I it it looks strange to me it looks odd and I don't know necessarily why it's being proposed um the other defense
you're referring to is the fence that is on the rear that adjoins a residential property and there I had indicated that you know I don't think a just a placement of a vinyl or wood fence is going to be a good long-term solution because the parking lot is I mean it's a
0.5 setback going to get Dam we're definitely going to have to discuss that but it's probably going to be with the engineer not the the the next witness our engineer would be prepared to answer that question yeah and and that's you know why didn't ask it um but in terms
of this I mean my opinion is similar to Marks I just I don't know it's like I hate to say it it looks a little prison likee with the metal bars and I mean yeah I mean it could be something nicer there just landscaping or something you
know or whatever but I I don't know it just it it looks very um sterile well I think one thing that could be done is to use several different colors on the facades at least
your the renderings you have just show everything in a brick red and that certainly makes it look more prison likee or at least very uninteresting U if you have let's say a
moreal less black a more or less white and one color uh would look a good deal better I just this morning was in Princeton where there are uh new uh apartment buildings
going up next to the shopping center and they've used several different colors uh in that again a sort of a black a sort of a white and a medium brown sort of wood
looking Brown um and it it can be done quite attractively and and I don't know since it hasn't been built yet what the the other building the
789 what the facade treatment there is but I think what Mark is saying particularly you want to get the facade treatments of the two buildings to be fairly distinctive fairly
distinguishable so nobody goes in the wrong building at the very least the the this building was not designed with 789 in mind at all it was designed with uh the other building across the street it wasn't designed by us the building
across the street that's uh the same owner owns that building so we were trying to create a little bit of unity so that it would look like uh I'm not sure if the building also is owned by Hamilton management the other building
yes it was it's it is owned by the same entity uh so that was the reason for these colors but we are not married to the colors we can look into uh working with the town and uh you know you know revising their colors slightly to uh uh
to have an agreeable uh solution for it yeah maybe a couple of the different shades I mean sure I'm I'm not we're not here as a board to design it for you we're just here to feedback on what you're proposing yeah um but yeah in terms of that continued fence I would agree with Mark that I wouldn't be nice
to see something um maybe not continuous I understand what the purpose is is to screen screen the parking um but yeah maybe a mix of something or a little more landscaping and and maybe a little less harsh treatment of the fence different material I don't know but
that's just the feedback could I just make a comment on the fence um aesthetically I like the fence um I've seen this in areas uh in the mountains in the hills of Los Angeles and San
Francisco but it it depends on the neighborhood so it works well I think in that kind of an atmosphere or an environment and I think here it's probably needs to be changed a little bit sure it's no
problem we we can work with a a planner and come up with a uh a solution for the fences it's so it was just a suggestion to uh screen in the parking from the street uh without having it completely
blocked I just had one quick question uh it looks like one of the units on both floors has a den is that correct well that's where the elevator was so this can be okay so that Den's coming out perfect takes my question so the the elevator was removed and we just used the little
box of it to have a room there but that's going to go away and I mean I know yes yeah I don't what we were going with obviously is that could to make a sort of a three bedroom so that's where the question originated from but problem
solve y um just my two cents I don't mind like the can of lever look it it does do what you know the sword we're sort of asking is it it makes it very different it is are sticking out yeah I
mean it makes it it is unorthodox but unorthodox is not necessarily bad right it it does make it different from from from the other building um I mean I have some other concerns which we'll get to and I'm sure Frank is very well aware of those but um like this isn't a big
concern of mine um you maybe varying shades of of the of the treatments of the building itself like said would be you know something you could do just to make it um not a one color but um yeah I mean I don't I don't mind an orthodox
architecture because I mean some best architecture in the world is pretty unorthodox so I mean trust me this was not like intentionally designed but uh the building we had to stick with the exact building coverage so the building
stopped there and uh we either had to can't deliver a very large part of it or stick those columns out and basically go across the parking so uh we chose that solution uh uh and I believe it's fine we can encase those columns with
something uh that goes with the building and there could be just you know just a very thin element goes into the parking lot Mr chair I just have one more comment which is um can you guys so on the same or the page you were just on A6
mhm and if you can go if you can go to that there's the middle rendering that shows um the corner well there's two corners but that's so the design standards and this comment really applies to both
Corners it talks about trying to do some kind of special architectural treatment at Corners um you know and it you know here I I don't necessarily see that here I if anything I see blank walls um
have you did you consider this design standard and you know just supposed to be it even says you can have you know you know some we've seen you know like little Tower features or something to kind of emphasize the fact that it's a
corner I mean uh the issue here was uh we actually cut off the corner because of the side triangle uh to allow uh the cars on the side streets to have a little bit of visual of Hamilton before uh getting into the intersection so
that's why the corners are cut off uh we would have loved to put a tower there uh but I think it would have uh impeded the visual I mean we could look into putting a tower in the upper floors and leave the ground floor uh on a 45 uh for the
side triangle we did the same on both Corners we uh cut off the corners a little bit to uh allow cars coming out to have a little bit of a better side triangle U but we could look into do
something above the entrance uh up to the roof so I I'm not against that again I'm just bringing these up for the board's consideration I mean these are the design standards that are in the ordinance you know I don't want to necessarily guide you you know I'm
bringing these to your attention you've heard the testimony you're seeing the exhibit and you know the board can decide which dire and and that's all all all I think we should do cuz none of us I think have day jobs doing this like you know professionally we're just giving feedback so I think I think your
feedback is is reasonable Mark and I I think you know the applicants indicated that they have some flexibility with regards to architectural treatment so um but that will have to be worked out with you know staff professionals but I I Absolut I mean we we certainly adopted
the hbd standards for a reason so okay um any other questions for this witness and certainly he'll remain sworn in for any future ones Bob just one one uh question in general I guess if you're going to do something above the roof on
the corner vary the colors a little bit on the yes entire building adjust the fencing a little bit how far along are we going to go before we're approving something that we
haven't seen and those are pretty all-encompassing changes to to the to the appearance of the building well the design is going to design is pretty much the same uh the fence is a treatment so
we can uh revise the treatment of the fence and uh we can get something okay that's I'm sorry that really wasn't a question for you does the board want to have an opportunity to see the changes and approve them or is it all going to be
left to well I I discussions with staff and I appreciate the question because yes it does there does come to a point where you know again it's you approve something and then it's staff's job to
make sure but at some point it's becomes you need to see it and you can't just defer all of it to to staff I what I would say is let's go through you know the rest of the reports the rest of the testimony and there's a few different options I mean at the end of this you could
decide applicant needs to come back with revised plans you could decide to Grant preliminary and have them come back for final um I know sometimes boards will do that when there's open issues yeah some looking ater to make sure I'm
not giving but fine I appreciate I appreciate Bob question and Mark your answer so and I totally agree let's just go through and and and we'll see where we net out fair enough so um engineer next
thank you yes public questions though no we're going to wait till the end and then we'll I I don't think there's too many public here so we'll just wait till the end add none do you swear the testimony going to provide us the truth all truth and nothing but the truth if you could state your name spell your last name and give us your address please for the record sure Adan Khan k
hn awz engineering 150 River Road Montville New Jersey all right addon would you give the board members of the public who we here the benefit of your educational and professional background qualifications and experience uh sure uh I have a bachelor's degree in civil engineering master's degree in
construction management from NGIT uh professional engineered multiple States testified in front of federal courts Superior Courts over hundreds of boards throughout New Jersey in newers are current and I have testified in front of board also you're accepted thank
you okay uh ad on did you in your did you prepare or supervise the uh preliminary and final site plan the environmental impact statement the storm water management report the operation and maintenance plan for storm water management measures and the traffic
impact analysis that's before the board yes I did okay and your testimony tonight will be on the plans the latest set of plans that have been submitted to the board uh and that's what you're going to be testifying to that is correct yes that is correct yeah okay
now uh explaining some of the reasons for the delay getting here is that uh there was an intervening point of time where you met with along with our client and the um uh Township staff PR predominantly Mr maai uh regarding U an
issue on offsite storm water and you believe that's been resolved it has been resolved yes that was the issue with the neighbor getting uh runoff or storm water runoff so we have to make some improvements to the applicants adjacent property as well as on the street uh I
believe it's uh Brier 23 be on beer and uh all the way up to that neighbor's property but it is my understanding all that work design work is complete and is accepted by Mr ma okay uh did you review the um while
we're on the same subject did you review the January 22nd 2025 report issued by Darren Mai of CME yes I did okay and what are your comments with respect to that uh there are not much comments it's mostly housekeeping type comments uh that we don't have any issues we will uh
address them we will work with them we have a very good relationship he was very helpful in addressing the strong water commment issues with the neighbors so I don't see any issues then we will comply with so to to word it slightly differently um is are there any um
points in the CME report that you wish to discuss with the board that you feel you cannot comply with uh no okay excellent parking spaces let's talk a little bit about parking spaces and the EV spaces how many parking spaces are required under the ordinance okay I'm
looking at our site plan which was submitted and is the same exact it's dated December 4th 2024 sheet c-01 uh we have a parking analysis on CT co1 where we break down the parking
based on the commercial use and residential use so I'll just go quickly with the commercial commercial based on the square footage of the commercial to commercial spaces we are required to have 14 spaces for residential between six one-bedroom and 12 two-bedroom units
uh we are required 3 35 spaces however this project qualifies for Ev credit EV providing EV parking spaces and the associated credit that comes with it so once we do all the math the parking for
residential component goes down to 31 parking spaces 31.3 to so let's say 32 and then we are proposing 38 spaces so the additional six spaces if we count towards commercial we are short eight
commercial parking spaces so that's an interesting point so there was a a point in the environmental Commission report that said you were you know o over spaces right and probably as a result of that math right what you're saying now however if you didn't put in
as many EVS right then you would be well under um the parking just you know from what it's required from commercial and residential just kind of taking out the EV so I I think you're probably in a sweet spot where you're providing enough
EVS you're you're not over parking but you're not under parking either uh that is but however the EV number is dictated by the law like what percentage of the required parking spaces so by the by the requirement by the regulations we are required to provide six EVS but yeah you
are correct we are over and as far as the residential component we are exceeding the requirement for the residential part are there are there any but you still feel the 38 U as a total um is what you need or is there I mean
we're always for as as minimal as parking is will fit the site for obvious reasons right impervious coverage is always reduced and things like that even though you're not over an impervious coverage but um just want to make sure that we pressure test that you you really feel you need all those spaces and if you don't and you can take
some out I don't think the board would equival with that let me just put it this way and of course like whatever the board says we'll do it uh 32 + 14 is 46 so technically between the commercial and residential we are required to have 46 spes we are proposing 38 spaces so if
you combine the commercial and residential we are short but if you just take what we are providing on site with residential we exceed okay so so but techic like I kind of said I think you're in a sweet spot where you're where you're kind of trying to walk the
line between correct those two uses that is correct all right and did you discuss with our client any contribution for any shortage of parking on site yes and they are will they are okay with the in uh the
F six spaces six spaces yeah our client has agreed to whatever is the balance yes yes six spaces yes 38 yeah I'd like eight spaces eight spaces while we're on that subject I'd like
to address a comment I think it's in the environmental commission report and the suggestion is that you not have the six uh charging station spaces right next to each other but disperse them within the
total um parking area and the reason is somebody parks in front of the charging station and gets charged up and they finished
charging but they it's the parking space they don't want to move well somebody next to that can still use the cord so really the the cords should cover four spaces for a two
U two-headed charging station which is the Dual which is normal nowadays uh if they're all right together you're not covering as many parking spaces as
being available to uh charge at as you are if the charging stations are dispersed uh Yes actually there are two reasons why we did that uh one is like uh there is a handicap parking requirement that one space handicap
space needs to be a charging station second like when you bring EV there is a lot of uh Electrical uh is uh what you call requirement increases and and if you start scattering along the side it extends I I usually most of the time
when the public service they upgrade this facility to service the electric charging they don't like to spread all around because it increases the time and cost so that is one of the reason and the second thing usually like if if let's say if you look around like if I
mean as far as the good planning is you need to provide these things in one location so anybody that wants to have order wants charge their EV vehicle they know where is the spot that they want to go what we can do and again your concern is a valid concern we can put some kind
of a sign on those parking spaces that please move the car upon complete completion of charging or things like that uh for the residents and again we are talking about like 18 residents or 18 units so that's something that can be coordinated plus my understanding is
there will be a property manager on the property as well who can monitor these things as well so that's something that I think uh administratively that can be covered by the management company and plus the signs we can add some signs
there uh you could even if you just had the charging stations all on one side of the parking lot but um with several spaces between
them uh then you meet the objective that I'm citing with not much additional wiring I mean really when you're building the building in the first place uh putting in a
little more wiring I I can't believe there's a major expense it's a little expense but really not very significant can but if you if you put them all on one side then you're uh meeting the objective that I
I'm suggesting well what we can do is like we'll see if we can spread it out between that row of parking yeah see if we can spread it out a little bit and you're right like now they have dual head Chargers so we can instead of putting right in the middle of the parking space we can put it on a side
where two spaces can benefit out of the same charging station yeah so yeah we can definitely look into that yes yeah don't don't don't worry about signs I mean they're it's a nice thought but it's un enforcable relying on people Goodwill and it's just it's it never
works out that way so I I I like the engineering Solutions better than the um Goodwill um so you know Ted's Ted suggestion is great and yeah if you put them on one then at least you're not dispersed the cost isn't great to in
practice the the residents will probably charge at night and employees in the r retail stores will charge during the daytime and these will be level two I assume yeah these are available for
people using this building yes yeah Okay add on uh again referring to the CM report this application has been has this application be been submitted and being reviewed by the following outside agencies DN AR Canal commission
the Somerset County planning board and the somerset Union Soil Conservation District uh yes D and as a matter of fact the somerset Union Soil Conservation District approved the plan we already got the permit from them yes okay and what's the status of DNR and uh Somerset
County uh DNR we are waiting we got the first round of comment from both from the county and DNR and we are waiting how this goes through here with the town because there will be some changes so before we address their comments and resubmit the plans we just want to go
through the township to make sure like we don't keep revising and updating the plans uh with without like I mean resubmission and all that stuff but again we have the first round of comments we don't have any issues with addressing any of their comments and we'll comply okay and uh the Franklin
Township sewage Authority issued an initial report I guess they didn't get your revised plans but do you want to make any comments with respect to their initial report uh yes the initial report I think for the record talking about their report dated April 19th 202 24
that is correct so those comments were addressed as part of this December submission that we did most of them uh so I believe somehow they didn't get a chance to review or they didn't get a copy of these latest plans but most of those comments are already addressed uh
based on their original report so let me let me save you some time Frank with with respect to outside agencies since they're outside and we have nearly no control over them um would it be your testimony that um in your response to any of the outside agency comments that you've got so far that you can comply
with them and not substantially or or impact what you're presenting tonight that is correct yes uh one thing I just also want while we talking about the county uh the county requires a two feet dedication on Hamilton Street so if you
look at it I think the ordinance calls for the building to set back a zero feet from the property line but if you look at this plan we are setting back building 2 ft behind in anticipation that the county will be requiring the dedication so when that dedication will
happen the building will be setting at zero feet so we we already discussed that with the county and we have Incorporated some of their comments that will affect the layouts so that's been already taken care of okay a couple other reports I want I
want you to make comment on uh there's a report issued by the director of fire prevention John house and that's dated January 16 2025 you will comply with his comments yes okay and I note for the record that the Franklin Township Police
traffic sa safety Bureau in a report J dated January 21st 2024 they have no comments with respect to this application you're aware of that right that is correct and then uh finally on January 13th there was a report issued
by the uh department of public health and safety of the county of Somerset and the health department has no objection to the application and then we save the best for last did you take a look at the February 4th 2025 memorandum issued by Mr Healey yes
I did okay uh specifically on item three the Hamilton Street streetcape will you comply with the requirements of the Hamilton Street streetcape yes we are actually showing a street scape uh based on uh uh the previous project that we discussed 789
we are showing the benches and other improvements uh and the pavers that are required uh so I my understanding is like we have Incorporated that but if there is any item that the township wants and we missed it the applicant has no objection to fully comply with the
hdp all right for the record just to deliver some testimony uh on Mark Mark's report uh there's a question regarding how The Refuge is being stored yeah we have a refuge room uh which is right on
I would say the S South West uh section of the building building or next to the one of the retail building I think the comment is like this refuse seems to be small uh just one clarification I want to make here is like this refug area is
for the residential use only uh retail uh will be storing uh their refuses within the store area somewhere and that will be taken care by them however like as far as the room I believe the room is sized and the bins are sized such a way
or the number of bins are located that the as you heard the applicant owns the building next door as well so based on their uh experience managing that building uh they feel like that this room area will or this area and the
number of uh bins will be more than enough to serve this property as far as picking and dropping the trash however again during when whenever people start moving and this property is fully occupied again they will evaluate the
need if needed they will have more frequent trash pickup and again this property is going to be managed by a property manager so so that is something that they will keep an eye on and if needed more frequent pickups uh they will accommodate that but my
understanding is like this is a decent size room which can accommodate 8 units trash okay and you're not looking for any variances or waivers from the tree replacement ordinance chapter 222 right okay and you will replace the appropriate trees how's your retail
trash being handled how's a ret that's going to be handled by the tenant whoever will be the tenant but I mean where where where is they will probably like we have to build up like mostly like depending upon who's the retail uh store owner like cartons and office uh thing they will probably have bins
within the store somewhere partition but there's not going to be an external dumpster or anything like that no no not for them no okay and of course comply with all the other ordinances including the applicable affordable housing development fee ordinance that is my understanding yes okay I have no further
questions of this witness so can we can we talk and I know your planner will probably testify as to you know your your reasoning as to the variances but can can we talk a little bit about those setbacks in the buffering so I mean that you know I I I come to I mean
there's a couple of ways to to deal with it um uh in in various extremes but I come to Mark stin and in my opinion at an absolute minimum the applicant needs to explore an aesthetically attractive end durable means of providing screening um because you don't have along a lot of
the site we only a half a foot setback so you're not going to be able to put trees or anything in there so how would you how would you comply minimally um with the with the you know Proviso that you the board may not may say well you know you got to comply what what it is
and and the setback is going to have to be greater you're going to have to do something with the size of your building but given what you're proposing now how would you address that comment okay I think the the setback that is in discussion or the variance required is
this rear yard setback mhm and again U as you as you know like this is like three-sided lot with three front edges uh and then the shape of the lot it's not perfect rectangle so the the the hardship that is being created is in
this section don't steal John's Thunder he's next okay oh he can add on to it so so this is the area that we are talking about where we are not meeting the setback the remainder half of the property we are meeting we are
landscaping and everything um the I mean we can provide of course we cannot provide 20 ft setback in that area just because of the geometry of the lot uh unless we sacrifice 8 to 10 parking spaces that means like we if let's say if we
sacrifice this whole row of parking right here we can work it out and provide uh 20 ft set back but that will means that we that will trigger a parking areas well then then there's a middle ground right which is you get a variance but the variance is not as
great maybe it's instead it's not a half a feet it's maybe I don't know five or 10 feet or at least where you can get some Landscaping in there it may not be 20 and so you may may still technically need a variance but there's variances right and then there's there's variances
so um right now you've got half a foot is a big and we have a couple of suggestions for that too and of course we'll leave it to the board uh one is like right now these parking spaces are 18 ft wide mhm we can make them 16 ft uh
uh length sorry not wide length mhm so of course that will that is not a normal space it's more like a compact space for smaller cars of course we cannot park a Suburban in those spaces but any decent minimum size SUV or medium size SUV can
be parked easily within that 16 ft so that will give us another 2 ft 2 and 1/2 ft so total it will become 2 and 1/2 ft the second option we have is by code this sidewalk that we have right next to the building uh based on
the rsis requirement we are proposing a 6t sidewalk but for handicap accessibility we only need four fet wide sidewalk so if we reduce the width of this sidewalk to 4T we can G another 2
ft so so those are the two options that we can work out but that's something that will trigger variance yeah I want I want to hear Mark's opinion on well before you I think you had mentioned before about the two foot along Hamilton Street is that I only caught the tail
end that Somerset County is is has asked for 2 feet more of of right of way correct okay so you can't move move the building up no okay um well one thought that I had was
um because I think you know the concern was at at 0.5 ft I mean even a fence is going to get damaged you know cars are going to park there and inevitably now we're just going to have a damaged fence and you know just so the board is aware
I mean there is a residence right there so the concern is you have one two three four you know 10 parking spaces parking and their headlights are shining into the neighbor's yard um so it's a you know it's a significant concern and they need a variance for that so they need to
come up with in my opinion a workable solution um as far as the 16 ft I I personally have never seen parking spaces as small as that I I I I I know a town that I used to work in they would allow compact
spaces at 16.5 I don't know if what you know 16 is some standard that you can site I I you know maybe the board can hear it I'm just saying I've seen 16.5 for compact the other and then um the
other thought would be you know with that screening wall that was shown on the architecturals you know what if that masonry screening wall went along you know you got rid of that screen that higher screen thing and just used that
smaller I guess masonry wall part that's more like 4T and continue that around on the fac on the side street and then go along basically the rear have that as your fence right like starting from here
going all the way in the back yeah maybe just wrapping it around and enclosing the property but not having that perhaps not having that fence with that screen that um you know I don't think you want necessarily want to have that along those those people's rear yards um and
then maybe in combination with reducing the width of the length of the parking lot reducing the sidewalk maybe you could that's enough room to put some deciduous trees in between the wall and the curb there might be I I don't I I haven't
done the math what that adds up to but two feet with the sidewalk and one and so it's at 3 and A2 ft now which sidew sidewalk are we talking about Hamilton the rear the building this one right here internal yeah so I mean if that gets reduced by two
feet and the parking spaces those few parking spaces get reduced by one and a half you're gaining three and a half feet you could put some deciduous trees back there too so so the neighbors will have some deciduous trees with that low masonry wall to block the
headlights I just want that's the making the best out of what's proposed no no that's I just wanted to throw um pet Peter had a suggestion that I thought is reasonable but I don't know whether this goes against the design standards what if you were to make it like could it be
a oneway aisle yeah does it need to be two-ways um I mean if you had one way in one way out I mean okay so I think you may lose a few spaces no you don't lose spaces you just lose drive all with you just don't you just make it one the parking one way yeah but the drive a
between the parking spaces is only 24 ft as it is oh okay so I don't think you can reduce that anymore well when you know when you redu when you do angled part if it was to be if we went to the extreme of the angled parking the the the drive Val width gets
reduced yeah but probably the number of parking spaces gets reduced typically when you angle you lose a few yeah we weren't even talking about angling Pizza idea was kind of like make it one way right rather than a two-way Drive aisle but to Ted's point it's already 24 ft
which is pretty narrow so it doesn't yeah we really we normally ask for 26 and then we're going to get Department never yeah and then I think the usually 24 ft is the required backup area for a perpendicular paring I have a
suggestion uh I like the suggestion of the wall of the solid masonary wall you said was 4T if you make a wall like that the chances are you have a flat top on it and maybe you could put some kind of a decorative feature across the top of
the wall that would sort of soften it a little bit sorry I was can you repeat that again use the 4ot solid masonary wall M put some kind of for one of a different different better term a decorative piece across
the top so that so it becomes maybe 5T high but it doesn't look like just a a big brick wall solid massive something a little decorative with it sure and that block I mean the block wall that we
talking about it can I mean it can be a decorative block itself with a pattern to it like rather than a CMU type wall and then yeah of course a lettuce on the top that can be done yes I have another
suggestion it's not perfect but would make things better you've probably seen parking lots where there are I call them diamond shaped spaces between
the that extend slightly into the parking spaces but after all a car extends further forward
than its tires so even if you hang over a little bit into those diamond shapes uh you're okay you can still use the parking space but in those diamond shapes are planted
trees I believe this was uh invented by Bruce Hamilton of our department of horiculture at ruter many years ago but if you had a sort of a half Diamond extending in right at the uh borders of
the parking spaces you could plant something in that half diamond without functionally using losing the parking space in any way now you might have to
to to make a screen they might have to be uh trees that will spread out higher up uh to make more of a screen but as Mark suggested what's really important
and what's covered by the masonry wall is uh shielding the neighboring proper properties from headlights but if you had uh even evergreen trees that where the branches
are allowed to begin just above the masonry wall that that gives you more of a vegetated screen yeah I understand like what you're saying uh I mean going back to Mark's comment about the car we are
providing wheel stops in those spaces so that so that the car doesn't go and hit the ball so usually you put like about 2 ft before uh so that's one thing and then again if we decide like to shrink the length of the parking or the sidewalk we can get you that green space
that I think Mark Ram mentioned that we can provide some Landscaping in there too so yes we can work out couple of options but we need some directions from the board like which way they would like to prer is I see with respect to the sidewalk is is it a R's requirement or
not uh planner seems to think that since it's a mixed use building the sidewalk is not a r requirement and I'm not sure that those folks down there at DCA would uh allow any reduction of the
sidewalk I mean r Sis's uh requirements are recommendations I mean they are like I me for resal they are recommendations they are not like a I mean requirements so but there's different waivers yeah and where we're kind of getting
into like more design than I U am comfortable with I mean I think the board's given you direction that we would like some screening there we would like the maximum possible screening there's multiple ways to do it um and I'm sure you could work it out
um how so I mean I your your planner's next correct um can I mention this now this strategy can yeah so so here's what I'm inclined to suggest guys um I mean I
think this is a you know I think it's a good use for the site clearly it's better than what's there it fits in with what we want in the Hamilton Street business district I think there's a little too many unknowns from what we've discussed tonight to give you final but
I'm I'm willing to consider um preliminary um and then come back with the final design once you've worked all of this stuff out because we've got enough differences now with building treatments with the way a fence may or may not look with the way that metal
thing may or may not look that um you know to Bob's point I would I would kind of so that way we would see you again for final but um I I do want to sort of indicate that at least for me I mean it's supportive of the use in the project um enough to consider a
preliminary tonight um you know pending pending yeah I kind of think we should wait until we hear from the planner and then go back to the board and see where we are I mean I'm justed absolutely correct drini that you're not a designer of the the project and it's up to the
applicant to make the presentation and make the proposal that the board is comfortable with and I'm reasonably confident that we can after you hear from our planner we can walk out with presumably a vote on the entire application but of course that's up to yeah I mean we'll see uh but I I I'm
very skeptical of that cuz I I already feel that we have enough uh um variables that I'm not I'm not comfortable doing that but I wanted to be transparent in that you know I I think the use and the intent um you know you guys have clearly
put thought into this I mean we've had people come through here pretty damn half-baked and I don't get that sense here so I I think that there's a willingness on my part to Signal support for where you're going but not to do final tonight because is I
don't know what this is going to look like between all these things getting you know between and we're already going too far into design so that's that's where I'm at but let's hear from the planner and we'll go from there I have I have a question clarification actually for the engineer uh on the engineer's
comment one of the comments is that there's drainage discharge coming from the parking lot from the opposite side um that's being addressed some somehow is there a chance that that we are going to put more drainage from this parking
lot to the street because I think there's a issue there no actually we are designing a strong water management system uh which basically we are taking care of all the water that will be generated from this development on site and of course we have to reduce the flow
so we have an outlet control structure we are reducing from the existing flows whatever is discharged currently so in other words we are going to make things even better for that discharge and Darren has seen that has approved that sign off okay all right and and what are
we doing for wasn't there a similar storm water management on the other building uh there was a similar or close enough like it was not as elaborate because there's building was built based on a prior regulation standard so what was happening is like the system was not
big enough and uh there was some water that has been draining from that parking lot onto the street and then going down to the neighbor's property at the end of the block yeah so what we did is like we added some trench drains and redirected some water within that system so that
rather than letting the water down on the street we are capturing on site and redirecting it okay and and Darren is okay with that Darren is okay that all right thank you yeah go ahead one more comment it's
really my major comment although it may not get anywhere section sheet CO2 shows the property in question extending not quite to North Dover street it also shows removal of all
trees from the property and the frontage on North Dover Street that that corner is the one undeveloped wooded patch on Hamilton Street
between Hawthorne Boulevard and Franklin Boulevard and I I always wanted the township to acquire it for a pocket park but I I never got any encouragement Bob vlocker would give me I reasons why not
as he's very good at um but you it seems to me you could at least leave the trees that are really into the uh setback along South Dover
and and if you could move the South DOA the north DOA Frontage back about 2 feet you could probably save some more trees that are shown on sheet C2 as
right along the property line there uh looking at U I think it's C3 I see uh a about a twt space with several shrubs on it and the northeast
corner of the parking lot and down next to uh the stairs at the southeast corner there's another 2 feet between uh the staircase and the um first parking space
so there's a little bit of space there to work with and I'd like to see if you could if you could move that side of the building Back 2 feet could you keep some trees trees on that um North DOA
Frontage because keeping existing trees is always better than planting new ones that will take years to grow up and get big and in this case it it would sort of
preserve some memory of what the uh the property was like before yeah like I I I going back like I believe the building setback requirement on do is again a front yard so it's a zero ft and our building is set at zero
and looking at those trees uh even let's say if we move 2 feet we will be disturbing the root system of those trees so if they're not going to die right away or within few months but in in a year or so you will see all those trees will be dead because the
foundation element of the building the the excavation that is required to put the foundation in that will completely destroy the root system for those trees however we are preserving the trees in the rear that we can so any trees that and again we can put a note on the plans
any trees that can be protected during construction activities we will try our best to protect but those trees unfortunately I don't think so those trees can be saved because of the work that needs to be done the few that are closest to the
actual Pavement in North do are further away from your your foundations and they might survive this smaller the board you can see them at in the pictures at the end of Mark's
report um but it's it's a shame to lose that patch but I understand you acquire the property you want to use it as well as you can have a a quick question about circulation around this site um imagine
a car going West on Hamilton taking a ride on Bayer Avenue um my concern I go to the barber shop a lot right there next to the pharmacy is car speed on Hamilton still and with the current radi at the intersection of Bayer and
Hamilton is really easy for an accident to occur with a car exiting your site especially with the increased number of cars cars that will be exiting that site given how close that exit is to the intersection and car speeding making that immediate right uh as an engineer
how you plan to mitigate that that concern I mean the speed limits of course like I mean if somebody's speeding and making a turn they still have uh let me see the distance is probably good I would say 60 ft between the intersection and the driveway and
then another I would say 15 ft where the car is coming out right so so we have about like close to about 50 ft from the intersection which is I would say is a safe distance for any car they turning like maybe at let's say even if they're speeding five 15 or 20 mph so I think
there is enough uh sight uh distance that they can react to if the car is coming out but there's a there's a way to mitigate that which is by uh tightening the the radi at the corner what that would do is give you a greater op at the entrance of your building
increasing the amount of sidewalk and visibility of the entrance at the corner so that will ensure that that car when it turns right does not turn at a speed that is dangerous uh yeah I mean of course but that is subject to what uh County because it's under jurisdiction
of County yeah I mean you can recommend it recommend yeah we can but subject to the county it's a safety concern yeah okay we're seeing that right now at the new McDonald's across from uh stop shop where you're at the intersection there's a another entrance
very close it's only a matter of time before an accident happens there and if someone who frequent this site a lot uh that's a huge concern right now all right I I think it's a question Mr Brown of jurisdiction get we will do whatever we can with the county to make that
recommendation it is entirely up to them since they have jur I understand so but you have you know the power of great design and you can encourage them by way of safety that is is a a issue waiting to happen the other piece and maybe this
is for the township itself um we we've been putting really beautiful buildings along this Corridor it's the Hamilton Street business district but it's becoming it's looking a really cheap lately and the reason is because there's
no sign standard in terms of window coverage you all design these beautiful buildings in the retail spaces immediately put up signs where there's no transparency in and out and so my support of this would be hopefully some sort of
um um way to say there should be no coverage or minimum coverage of the signing on the bottom floor because that's becoming a problem it's extremely cluttered uh in terms of a design standpoint so for the commercial rest for the commercial yes it'll just I mean
things will look better if they're not cluttered right now businesses are adding far too much signage in the windows is also a sign um a crime concern as [Music] well uh that thing I don't know it's more like an Enforcement issue with the
town or I don't know Mark how can we do something about that because you know as someone who's 15 years here it's a problem we design beautiful buildings and then we allow people to put signs in the windows to cover the windows windows are meant to be seen in and out of
instead of covered by signs yeah I mean that is an enforcement thing I mean I I the signage on Hamilton is a consistent issue um and there is a 20 years plus I mean yeah it is um and there is a
standard there is a limit um off the top of my head I don't remember but it's either 25% or 50% of the window that could be covered um and there is a Max so so if there are businesses covering their entire storefront with with windows with then
that is a violation yeah we just want to keep the corridor as attractive as we can and I think with the great architecture that's coming here is taking away from that so yeah my experience coincides with Mark uh either the signs are permitted or not permitted
if they're not permitted but a developer or an owner or a tenant for that matter decides to violate the ordinance then uh typically it it involves enforcement rather than planning board action thank you
and just for the record all the your signs the proposed for the commercial are completely compliant yes I just want to make sure I understand the trash situation completely I know you said that it will be the tenants for the commercial property's responsibility to store it
and there's going to be no dumpster so on trash days do they just take it out and put it on the sidewalk or how does how do they get rid of it uh again as I said there will be a property manager for the thing for this whole development so they will be that the retail or the
commercial uh tenants have to coordinate with the property manager and then they will take care of the tra okay that's very un specific but will it be expected for the trash collecting truck to enter
the parking lot or uh no because this parking lot has a requirement like there's a ceiling height that's what I was figuring yeah that's why we have a property manager and they will have private pickup private pickup though you have a flexibility of using an equipment
that is compatible with this site they don't have necessarily have to bring a dumb truck to do that they can bring a Ford mounted uh Ford 150 or 250 with the trash uh uh handling uh mechanisms and they can just take pick up and uh
dispose of the containers there so that's that's what's going to happen at this side and again uh it's the first I would say in couple of months they will know more uh accurately the frequency that they need because of course they're putting this building beautiful building
they don't want the trash to accumulate on the property so again they will make that frequency if it needs to be made it more frequent that what will be happening so probably the manager would put the call them garbage cans they'll look
better than that out on the Bayer Avenue curb and the truck truck will come along and they probably have a I see John shaking his head madly I'll talk about it okay I mean there are two ways they can do it uh depending upon the
equipment that the waste management company whoever they contract with uh they want to accommodate with this site if they're bringing a smaller truck like as I mentioned uh there are small like Fords or Dodges or whatever that are equipped they can drive in through the
driveway they can stand in front of the uh trash enclosure bring the bins out empty and then leave if if there is a bigger equipment that cannot meet the ceiling height of the building then they have to park by the curb side and then
uh the trash had to be brought out and that's something that that will be evaluated during the first few months of the operations of the I know the truck that picks up my garbage it it's a Onan truck and it has a mechanical arm that reaches out picks up the garbage
container and dumps the contents into the truck um so you have I believe you have a regular dump dump truck truck that comes in but again with the private haulers they have all different shap size equipment so they
cater based on the availability how best they can come in and out and pick up the garbage and the accomodate so could I pick up on that uh Rebecca's question so I had the similar on the pickup day for the retail I'm not clear um as to what
is the process I understand that the property manager will decide but for me that's a little bit on the loose end so those things have to be more finite right what will be the steps will they collect it will they actually put it in
the uh dump the trash on property will they be responsible for their own private pickup so I would like to see very specifics on that right even if it's Property Management so what is your plan on that yeah I think we have the
applicant here who manages the building next door to so I think he might be the best person to answer how they're handling that okay thank you I've been advised that Mr teina has the information he's our planner he's our next witness and he'll answer your question
all right let's uh let's go to him Frank thank you very much thank you John good evening do you swear the testimony going to provide us the truth old truth and nothing but the truth I do if you could state your name spell your last name and give us your address please for the record my name is John
tyina T isn't Thomas a i k is in Kelly i n is in Nancy a my I'm a principal of all things planning and development in South brunic new Jersey 30 Newman Road Kendall Park all right Mr Tako would you give the board members of the public over here the benefit of your
educational and professional background qualifications and experience certainly uh hi I'm a licensed planner in the state of New Jersey I have been since I completed my studies at Ruckers University in 1992 I've spent the last 32 years doing this testifying on behalf of applicants
uh before boards uh throughout New Jersey and around the country I've testified before more than 190 different boards around the around the country and mostly in New Jersey but also California so been to La seen this seen seen the walls I agree with you um and uh did
five years in La it was a lot of fun um La uh Los Angeles Florida uh Massachusetts and Pennsylvania in addition to New Jersey my license is current and in good standing was renewed on May 7th and yes I was asked that date by the Bardon Patterson believe it or
not quite particular very very well accepted so please thank you Mr teina we're applying for preliminary and final site plan approval tonight and uh we conform with the ordinances is that correct but for two variances that are
being requested one relating to parking lot setback and one relating to buffering would you provide the board and the members of the public who were here the benefits of proofs regarding those two variances certainly so I am here to talk about uh the variance
relief um that does start a little bit with our uh overall compliance with the hbd uh standards and with the hbd design standards um frankly I I think the the uh I think I said to my to my client the Project's
great it is uh really a nice adaptation of of taking the hbd standards and applying them to a site admittedly that is small and is challenged and uh I think that uh the architect and the engineer have done a very nice job of applying those standards and uh
implementing across the site um as always uh there are taste things that uh that boards can can address whatever it comes to colors or Etc what uh gives me uh what what works for me as a planner
and an urban designer is uh the building is in the right spot it's the right size it's the right shape our willings are our Windows our doors our massing all of those things uh are correct uh we have a great retail Frontage along Hamilton
Street we have uh high quality um we have high quality access points we have clear and defined entrances for our different uses our parking is around to the rear it's uh half of it inside underneath the building the other half is screened we can certainly discuss the
method of that screening and that's that's like great conversation to have I think the board has given us good direction on how to address uh that buffer uh adjacent to the residents there and I agree it's very very important um but our bones are very good and then the second part of it is our
materials are very good so we have brick we have a fiber cement uh fiber cement siding and fiber cement board and we have stone so we have three high quality materials we can certainly refine them in ways that would be more acceptable uh
to the board make sure we don't uh copycat on to 789 uh I would love if we copy C on 695 next door CU frankly I think that's the most attractive building in Hamilton in Hamilton Street star the building that is next door that is owned by my client so when I see that and see how that building is operated it
gives me uh great comfort that this building uh will be high quality and operate the same way so in terms of all the Hamilton uh standards uh we meet them um by and large as you say except for these uh for these two two matters
of relief um one is uh for the buffer requirement 20 ft is required to the adjacent resident we are proposing uh 0 five the board has said and uh frankly rightly so that's not enough um so we believe that uh doing a combination of
shrinking the parking spaces shrinking the uh set sidewalk adjacent to the uh to the building we can provide for an additional three or four feet along there and then combine that with Mr Chase's suggestion uh for the diamonds
uh to provide for potentially additional uh area to maybe plant something that's a little larger combined with extending the ma the masonry wall around uh around that side of the building uh again good fences make good neighbors good walls make good neighbors uh but a solid
masonry wall makes a better neighbor uh than a than a vinyl fence that uh that that is that is going to get damaged at six inches so again I think they're all good suggestions and I think they're suggestions that uh my client is is uh happy to address all right so do you
think Mr teina that based on what you've heard tonight from the board and based on uh the information you have and the testimony that's been presented that uh the applicant can reasonably uh provide three or four feet of
buffering using the techniques that have been suggested yes without question okay and and do you think that uh the board can safely Grant if they choose to do so final site plan approval based on those suggestions yes I believe we we'
provided sufficient information that you understand the directions we're going the chair is the chair and the board are going to do what what they're comfortable with um in terms of even preliminary again it locks in uh the site plan it locks in the variances it locks in uh coverage and all those
things uh that is one thing uh to to point out um the board asked like why does the building kind of stop on the on the North over side and we literally ran out of coverage so uh that that takes us up to the to the building coverage and
uh that's literally why we stopped um so again I think having it there is still a better alternative because again it encloses more of the parking it has more of that uh to be inside um so our specific variance relief on that side as
a combination of C1 and C2 variances as you know a C1 variance is something that is relates to the particular physical uh limitations of the property here we have a property that on our uh on our east side is um
is only 100t deep and uh when you try and fit a 60ft parking lot a 40ft building in 100 feet it tends to get a little squeezed as you know langie North Caldwell is the case that kind of provides some guidance on a C1 variants of that case of that type and um and
there the board was uh appropriate in granting a variants where uh the improvements are allowed to be of normal size and shape um for their utility and in terms of a parking lot uh it's actually very important that some of
those Dimensions particularly the 24 ft between the back the backs of the cars are met because when they're not that's when the cars back into each other because we're very well conditioned to do that turn in the 24 ft um and when it's not there uh you're going to you're
going to back into things uh I happen to live on a 2ot 24ot wide Street and I know that if somebody parks on the other side of the street they are in a 50% chance of one of my kids backing their car out into um because when the 24 ft isn't there it
matters uh so again those specific dimensions sometimes are very very very very important the depth of the space not as important I drive a Toyota Highlander one of the larger three row SUVs it is only 15 feet 5 in long okay
so even at the one of the bigger SUVs on the road not a Suburban but other than that it's going to fit in that in that smaller Dimension space especially with if we give the room we're going to have a little room to over overhang that curve a little bit before you run into the shrubs and
everything that's there so uh I again I think that a little bit of C1 there and then uh secondly we have um a C2 variance and that's where it overall that the benefits of the overall project outweighing particular detriment of um
of that specific relief uh and in this case we believe that the overall benefit of providing for the complete Frontage on Hamilton providing for the high quality building providing for the screening coming around both sides we're going to supplement the screening on the uh east east end of the property I think when
you put all of those things on balance uh the benefits of granting the overall project outweigh the detriment of that little of that uh piece where we're not uh fully complying but I think with a combination of a wall some uh some column or narrow Shrubbery and some
deciduous trees that are planted in that in those islands I think those three things things can come together to provide a layered treatment there that is going to sufficiently address that um sufficiently address that uh that portion of the project
um the the second uh the second part um of the relief is uh is that um obviously the negative criteria um I'm sorry we have to show some special reasons first not special reasons so the purpose of zoning uh I think there are there are
three uh G to provide sufficient space and appropriate locations for a variety of uses both public and private according to their respective environmental requirements to meet the needs of New Jersey citizens again the applicants proposing use that's permitted um you heard our engineer talk
about all the environmental aspects of our storm water system uh that is to the highest standards now uh getting through drcc and uh and through the county and soils um so again we're meeting all of our our environmental requirements there uh purpose odd more desirable visual
environment through creative development techniques and good Civic design and arrangement I think this is good Civic design I think it respects the street it it has a great streetcape I think we're going to have a great um commercial uh Frontage there I think that uh as shown
on the building uh immediately to our West at 695 I think that's actually the best treatment of the streetcape in terms of how the storefronts are treated along Hamilton so far and I think this continues use that in terms of taking
the upper level um the upper level siding and the treatment of the building down all the way to the kick plate and only providing the stone at the kick plate at the 3 and2 ft as opposed to running it all the way up the 8 feet running it all up the 8 ft as other
buildings have done it provides too much of a base for a building that's only three or four stories tall so again this this proportion of the base the middle and the top is much more in proportion than other buildings and I think very very appropriate it continues that high
quality treatment of the retail on Hamilton and I'd also say uh for my for my client there um his quality of retail there one he's full and two he has high quality tenants with again with uh with the barber shop with the um with with
the pharmacy uh with the golf simulator so again we have a a full storefront there and I'd expect it uh to continue here as well so all those things directly support uh the hbd Hamilton Street business district uh in terms of our uh and then purpose M
excuse me to encourage coordination of various public and private procedures and activity shaping Land Development with a view towards lessening the cost of such development and to the more efficient use of the land and what this goes to is one is to the efficiently using the land very well and the hbd
encourages that but also it is dealing with the county and soils and drcc and the town uh and and the sewer and all those people and taking all that together and still resulting in a project so um they're they're somewhat
of a challenge uh and again providing for redevelopment here in a developed area is really the the highest uh the highest challenge uh for anybody um in terms of our negative criteria again we have no substantial detriment of public good uh again this is a permitted use uh
it's replacing um really redevelop a stretch of Hamilton that could use it uh the buildings proposed are compliant in terms of height and bulk and I think that we are providing for uh really thoughtful ways to make sure that we buffer our neighbors uh from any of our
parking impacts in the rear and I think with the board's guidance that's only getting better and the second prong is that we're not going to impair the intent purpose of the Zone plan or the zoning ordinance we are implementing The Zone plan on those owning ordinance this is exactly what you ask for and uh and
we're providing it and uh I I was really excited about it uh the purpose of the hbd is to provide for commercial uses with supportive residential in combination to contribute an attractive vibrant and sustainable business district G that is geared towards pedestrian circulation bicycle
circulation and public transportation check we do all those things this is exactly what we're looking for in the Hamilton in the hbd and we're very very pleased to do it we recognize we do need relief there we think we have a creative solution to it
um the master plan uh goes uh goes on uh further for that but as I said all of these things substantially line up uh with exactly what you're looking for in the Hamilton Business district and um we're uh very pleased and proud to do it um and uh I'm available for so for those
reasons I believe you have the ability to Grant uh the relief that is requested um and I'm available for your questions the first question I'm going to answer is garbage um I also have the pleasure of my second office is uh 900 Main Street in Belmore New Jersey uh that is
actually a 30 unit mixed mixed uh use building on Main Street in bmore New Jersey that I have the pleasure of having a Shore office uh and I also manage that building um and I have exactly what we have here we have restricted uh entrance in the back uh
our garbage is picked up by a four yard uh garbage truck and the the really what's changed garbage has been the Advent of the those 96 gallon containers with the big wheels and they're able to be rolled out by one person they hook
right to a little thing on the back of the truck and it gets dumped into the truck and it goes down nothing has to go up overhead everything can be done by one person um and you hire a private Carter that is going to come in go get your cans out of where they are in the
building dump them and put them back in the building for you that is the Carter that you hire and we will do it in such a way that whether it has to be done twice a week or three times a week uh again my 30th building in Belmore we do it twice a week that's it that's all we
need and we don't use I think we have eight containers in here we use five um again garbage kind of fills its however much you give it um so again but this is a managed building by someone
who manages a high quality project um so again the Advent of these 96 gallon containers really has changed garbage eliminated the dumpster eliminated the stink eliminated the smell fact fact it has to stay in the building is better it's kept more neatly um and it's kept
cleaner so we're very confident we can do that before the the before the planning board asks you questions affirmatively based on the information that's been presented tonight based on the mitigation that you've suggested based on the exact items of ation do you
believe that this board can safely if they so choose Grant complete approval tonight including the variances and including final site plan approval yes for that question have no other questions open up to the board yeah I have a question again on the garbage thank you for
explaining that detail so maybe I'm missing a point um I'm trying to visualize that the retailers where are they going to keep the garbage until the dumb truck you know the the garbage truck comes to pick it up so um if you look at uh this is
A2 um in the back there's uh there's back doors but the spaces or vanilla boxes are empty what will happen is each retailer will build a little room that's right next to this back door that is accessible to that back door where the garbage is
kept okay so that's going to be mandated for each retailer that's the plan they'll have to follow yes they will interior location for their garbage okay I I have another question so I'm not too sure if is uh you're able to answer
because I just noticed it the on 695 right the exit out of the parking lot and Bayer is that so and the driveway for the parking lot for the new property right are they going to be
lining up no no okay yeah 695 is deeper so it's further back it's further back but are they opposite each other no no
okay thank you thank you Mark um I just want to call on you to like you know you're the you're our planner um what's your opinion in terms of uh the planning testimony you've heard tonight versus what the applicants
willing to do to meet your requests for um buffering and setbacks well I I think you know I we have a it's it's a good question and and I don't know if I can necessarily answer it for you I I I think some of the
things like the buffering if the board was satisfied with the what was discussed tonight so for example if the board was to say approved subject to making de side walk four feet making those spaces comp I'm talking so much
about that I'm talking more about like what like with respect to the C1 the C2 criteria I mean I'm I'm you know respectfully um I do appreciate your planning testimony that we could Grant
preliminary and final tonight I the pulse of my board is that um we have been um burned before in the past um by trying to engineer certain things um which is why I prevent the board from
doing it we'll give you our feedback um I'm not an entertaining final tonight because I just think there are too many variables that I would like to see um from color treatments to walls to setbacks to
whether we can get two three 4 feet um all of that stuff I would like to see a final plan to know exactly what we're getting um I know that there are some veterans on this board who can tell you that when we have failed to do that in the past um we are often looking driving
by by these projects wondering what the hell we approved and so um that's not yeah not going to happen so yeah I think I'll answer it like this I mean I think to a degree and I'm going to work backwards to the degree that we're talking about a masonry wall moving the
moving the parking lot down um adding some Landscaping I think that's speaking to the negative criteria is it going to be a substantial detriment um and you know what a what what a a ID wall with some Landscaping provide the same amount
of screening as a 20ft wide landscaped area you know or or would it sufficiently mitigate the impact of the variants I mean I I I think it probably could if it's a solid wall with some Landscaping but then you do have to think of the positive criteria you know
I I I I don't know if it's really a C2 I I don't know how a three three foot buffer three and A2 foot buffer uh is better than a 20 foot wide buffer so I think the issue is is it a
hardship um you know and is the the shape of the lot the fact that it has this little notch in it if you will it's not a square piece of property is that is that a hardship I you know I I think it could be argued
either way I think you could decide that if they if they frankly if they did did make it smaller the building smaller and they had less less parking requirement they could get rid of those spaces and comply they could um we could do it with without a
variance and comply but we'll just pay for the spaces you have a mechanism to do it um well I I can tell you that the way that I'd have to read our ordinance but the way our ordinance the way we typically apply this in Hamil Street for
all of these mixed use developments is that the residential gets gets provided on site and the payment in Li is the commercial portion which again we we provide we meet our residential now um we get certainly get close and
again do you need 20 feet can you do 10t is 5T enough again we think we think we can get to four or five um and keep our parking count if you turned and went parallel and lost
four or five spaces you'd get 10 ft um I was as I was ask a question and yeah I'm laying it out for the board that's fine I mean at some point we have to put a pin in the ground and say you know this is this is what we're what we're considering I I mean my own
opinion is that you know this I think compared to what's I look at it overall not just in a vacuum um I don't I exactly how you should I think that a 20 a 20ft buffer I there's no way you can say a four or five foot buffer is as good as a 20ft buffer if that's the
ordinance however is it sufficient for the use and is the overall use a positive to community I think it is um I'm more backing the C2 a hardship I that I have more trouble seeing because you could you know like you said um you
could even um do do something off site right for the parking and and and comply you can even have a smaller building so I I I I from a legal standpoint however you you don't need to prove both right
and I'm just saying you know when you say a mix of C1 and C2 I'm having a harder time seeing the C1 than I am the C2 well the C1 is is based on the uh the statute itself which talks about the specific property as Mr tyon yeah I mean I can see your point Dr yeah I mean that
that's that's all I'm saying but um like you said you only have to satisfy one not both um and I know I I would I would think you satisfy the C2 and I mean it it's your testimony um that overall um granting the variances would
substantially outweigh any detriments and I've asked this of our planning board attorneys in the past what do substantially mean because in the statute is substantially 51% better or is it 23 75 what does substantially mean I'm sure they said the law is gray and
is exactly what they said you Jim Clarkin I won't drop any names but yeah so um planning board attorney in other towns I can tell you that's what I said yeah so the the only thing I will add um Mr chairman is that to the extent the
board may be inclined to proceed with preliminary and not final and Grant variance relief I don't know what variance relief you're granting because one of the things they need is a variance for a setback and you either need to quantify
it or not quantify it so and I know from what's been discussed you've got a variety of options on how they're going to try to um create the greatest amount of space they can have but you either need to come up with that number that they can meet or if
they can't meet it then they've got to come back for a revision of that variance because they're going to need a different variant so I'm just that's where some of the the problems going to come in with proceeding with preliminary and not final yeah I don't see how we can come up with numbers on some of the
variances without seeing what's proposed all this discussion to me just reinforces the idea I I like the project I'm for it right I need to see what it's going to
whether the suggestions we made are going to do what they are intended to do so so to put it down on paper bringing in I just you know we as a board have to take ownership of this after it's done I want to there's just too many things
that I that are invisible right now they need to be concrete yeah so so to Peter's Point what I was trying to Signal through preliminary and he makes a good point is because we maybe don't know exactly the extent of the relief we're going to Grant you based on how
many feet you can but we do okay we do I just I was with the engineer and the planner okay what is it 4T okay and to get to the 4T specifically what do we need to do reduce the sidewalk from six
to four and reduce those parking spaces from 18 feet to 16 ft 16 and 16 and a half 16 and A2 and we overhang so the real question before the board is will the board be satisfied with a 4 foot buffer and diamonds
because that's what we can do yeah no no no I I I get it and and and so we I mean we could that being said I mean I don't know how the rest of the board feels but I still don't think we can go beyond preliminary tonight because I would like
to see what the final design looks like but I understand that to even give them preliminary we need to know what relief we're so now we know what relief for getting so thank you for that um and and if the board is okay then then we'll simply give you preliminary and just want to see the final plans because of
the reasons I've already stated um preliminary with the variances correct and and and you know we we would we would Grant you the relief and then you would revise the plan according to what you're saying which is getting getting that for feet and then whatever Landscaping whatever treatments whatever
trees whatever shrubs whatever diamonds whatever all of that whatever the building is going to look like but I did want it I mean my goal tonight was to tr at least the kind of to paraphrase what Bob said um I I think the board as a whole supports the
project thinks it's a good project um but we we just do want to see the final plan so I mean I'm I'm willing to do that and and to you know so and that that's fine I just want to make sure we understand the issues you have that are outstanding for final so it is the
treatment along each of the streets of the screening SL wall the well specifically the the part that they are requesting the variants from they compliant at least half the property um the half that they can't um along North do where we're granting them the relief
for the parking lots set back and and and and the buffering um the four feet that we're talking about I I want to see what that looks like in terms of wall and Landscaping I want to see what the building is going to look like with different potentially different color treatments I want to see what that fence is going to look like I want to see what
their parking going to look like with the diamonds and all um and I just want to see if kind of a revised overall plan like I said and I would like to see even though it's outside their jurisdiction an attempt made with Somerset County to increase uh safety at that intersection
by tightening up the radii because it's not just a right turn concern it's also a left turn concern as well the the applicant also brought up a suggestion on their own that they might be able to treat the corner differently at his head he will make that communication to the
counil so Mr Brown what we would do is we would attempt to utilize the radius that's at North over Which is less pull that over to Bayer to reduce it yeah and I mean it makes your entrance much more inviting and everything a great I've been again I I do this four nights a
week very thoughtful board really this would be their opportunity to show us if they have an idea how to treat the corner differently they mention doing something above the roof what's that oh yeah yeah if they wanted to do that I
mean that that's an architect that you know you can well it also is part of the Hamilton Business it is so so let's do this let's um open to the public because we need to do that and then we can hopefully second all in
favor any members of the public wishing to speak on this application he's coming I'll swear man sir before you begin if I could just swear you any in case you're going to provide any testimony in addition to questions so if you could raise your
right hand for me sure thank you sir do you swear any testimony you're going to provide is the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth absolutely sir if you could just state your name spell your last name and give us your address please for the record Carl Wright w r i g HT address 139 Fuller Fu l l e r
Street Great city of no great Township of thank you sir um couple quick questions um photo a07 well um scheme at
a07 the rear view of the building now we talked about um the light shining over into the houses next door what I want to find out is and correct me if I'm wrong if you're on Bear
Avenue across me from that beautiful building that we that we keep uh throwing in there isn't there a fall off at the back of that building that goes down the hill is it a flat and then it dips down
into a a hill like is that what we're talking about am I right am I wrong correct I didn't get your question what is the question at the back of the building right as this as States right now
mhm go does it go downhill you mean the light the gra have toce the mic it does but it's you have to speak the mic I can meet you you can pick those things up to
turn all right so let me it's about a foot and a half difference in the back in the back yes so now my question is because right now there's an issue with runoff water going downhill
from the house right next door to the uh uh uh garage whatever you want to call it right there so my question is when you did that storm water management or whatever you guys want to throw around with that with that term
does that catch that water coming down that hill so that it doesn't run into anybody else's driveway anybody else's house is that getting caught by a catch Bas or something going to catch that water or is it just going to keep running down the hill because that's
part of the problem that we're having over there so unless you're telling me you're going to put a curve halfway down the block to keep that water from channeling on in and there's going to be an issue there once everybody else leaves and they Grant all this preliminary injunctions and everything what are we left with so that's my my my
first question let me answer that before you get to the second one uh now second one now um how's that light work into the houses below what type of buffering are we talking about I mean let me ask you the I mean let me answer the first
question okay okay uh right currently right now the way the property exist everything goes towards the back right the slopes there is no strong water detention on the property whatever surface run off it just goes either to
the uh be I think be be or to the rear of the property what this project is doing we are first of all we have a building and then we have a parking lot parking lot has a curve all around so there is any water that will be either
generated from the roof or from the open parking area will be collected into this underground detention system okay so you are eliminating I would say 80 85% of the run off right on right off the backpack there and what about the rest
the rest is all landscape that whole area will be landscaped there and it will be all impervious with the soil so it will be absorbed with the ground plus the system that we designing it reduces 2 year 10 year and 100 Year St event from
the existing conditions 2 year by 50% 10 year by 25% 100 Year by 20% so whatever you see now first of all we are containing everything and then any discharge is going to be tied directly into the St SE line okay see you I I in my opinion you
won't see a drop of order offsite okay see from from a Layman's perspective if I understand our engineer correct you're better off with the project than you are today correct and your opinion um my question is and
and I'm been a bomber I've been I'm out the hide it works on you all day long um um my second question there is with the light now I don't know how you guys want to
explain it but that traffic sits the cars are parked in the back of the lot and when those cars turn around the lights everywhere so you're going to improve upon the situation because you have a new housing the board gets to say you got to come up with a new idea on
how to protect protect the residents with the lighting and everything okay now someone mentioned it and how's that barrier going to work trees
brush uh the way I see it and again it's just a concept in my mind right now based on the comments uh we'll have four feet I mean first of all we have 20 fet and a good landscape buffer for half of the property uh to the West Side the
other half what I have in mind is we'll have uh landscape buffer 3 3 and 1/2 ft then we'll have a wall at the end at the property line 4 foot high wall and I go see any light what's the you us do I see your lights coming to my
house I don't think so because the average height of the light from an average car is 2 and 1/2 to 3 ft High we are proposing a 4T High all there unless I got a SUV then they were yeah a big tire rigged it up with the big tire I'm not going to see any of your light
that's what I want to know that's the that's the idea that's all I want to know correct it's not just light though it's the cars slamming their doors late at night as well yeah and and then but again also we are putting Landscaping in front of the wall too now so that Landscaping will grow up and it will
probably start first of all yeah it will block some of the noise element as well and plus over the time over a year two years that landscape will grow and it will over overshadow the wall so whatever any glare probably won't even see that
glare and Carl just so you know I mean that's one of the reasons that I am asking them to come back with a final plan because we've given them this direction but we don't know exactly what it's going to look like so it gives us another bite at the Apple to say what are you actually going to do to address our concerns yeah you know a thing that
that also bother me on a side note some of my residents that were going to show up because you say you don't have to notice this thing anymore then you actually got to follow this on the uh uh uh website as to what's been carried what hasn't
been carried what's going to be they got lost on this number yeah okay so I'm the I'm the Fall Guy I'm just catching questions as they come through okay um we did the lights we looked at the barrier you're going to come back with
that little puppy right yeah okay uh parking you know they're doing a traffic study on Hamilton Street even though I think we're a couple hours late on that one but we're looking at are you giving these people and you
did you brought up the uh Hamilton Business District parking rules or whatever are we giving each apartment two cars or each apartment a car and a half uh we have 18 units we have 38
parking spaces uhhuh so it's more than two per unit okay because I I never understood how you can get a car and a half actually that's a good question that I've been asked all the time uh usually they they use a ratio like uh
rsis and do and all those standards so they factor in the use type uh the location of the use and uh the visitors and all that aspect so that 2.3.5 that you see is that element of that visitor
space and then over the cumulative project it adds up to number of space so there is a Formula behind that that they come up with those requirements that sound good to you Mike yeah I mean this is Carl this is like one of these projects that um I think is kind of rare
I think with what's been built on Hamilton Street is that you know there's always been some like the commercial right all you'll find parking on the street uh these guys are actually providing their entire parking obligation on site so yeah that parking
is one of the least of my concerns and your other question about the notification that's just state law I mean they they notice once and and they don't have to Ren notice unless there's I don't know some certain amount of time I don't know what
it is but once they notice once if it's carried by the board then like you say you kind of got to follow it if you're not here to say oh you know it's being carried to such and such a date then you don't follow it on the website yeah I appreciate I appreciate that
unfortunately it's not our we can't force the applicant to re notice it would be nice let Chang the um damn that's all they gave me right quick um that water was just that that one
little thing there um have any of you seen the property have any of you tripped over there and did a little look see I know Charles has yeah okay so we all good on this right okay well compared to what's there I think you're
going to be no noet what's there about what's there I mean that's been there for 30 years I'm my sweating details now okay uh it's just that if you're going to put something better then please make it better don't just put the you know
what they call the lipstick on the pig you know I I I just don't want that type of uh thing done to my people and since there's no Shadow being cast they don't have to worry about putting up U uh solar panels and you coming back with
the uh with your building they can't collect money from psng right the building is going to the roof will support solar panels my house oh your house right if I
want to put solar panels there yeah oh will cast sh we are meeting the height requirements as for the Redevelopment plan yeah it's only three stories yeah pretty far from the backer yeah you want to put solar in your
house I do it's okay all right I got on where I'm at so it's okay but I was just checking to make sure that you know the residents gave me that question I'm going to ask fair enough okay half hour excuse me you're not
going to get from what you see that a little bit before sunset or whatever you see what I'm trying to say you know but anyway uh we good I can go back to some what I found out but I
really would uh like that water situation if you say that's going to be a catch thing this project and the improvements that you have has to do to 695 I think uh overall condition for the whole area will definitely much better
now so can you make them just pull that side mean that curb down just a little bit right you know they're going to try Somerset County good well I thought we was cool we are we got it they're going to try
thank you thank thank you Carl um seeing no other takers move to close all in favor one additional item Mr chairman um just we we discussed the fact that um it's a portion I believe of the parking
spaces that are going to go to 165 yes so it's just the spaces where you don't have the additional 20ft buffer correct that is correct okay so wanted to quantify that and just wanted to confirm with Mr Healey that the parking space size then will be another I don't know whether whether it's a
variance is it a waiver is is it a something because I would imagine we have a standard for the parking space size and just that's another item of relief because I want to make sure the board a the board understand it's granting it and that it gets granted if it's appropriate so that they don't need to come back and address that then yeah
you know our our ordinance says 18 ft um so I mean that would require I mean I think we treat it as as a variance to the degree that matters um design um yeah it would be a variance but I'm assuming Frank that you've noticed for
any and all there's that language in your notice yes yeah so that's what that language is for all right um does the board have any other questions if not I'm going to try to make a motion for this that was
all-encompassing Mr chairman let me just bring up just there was a list of things that um that you had indicated before that you want them to look into um just the two other things that um I would like to speak with the applicant about and that is the architectural treatment at the corners I think with some we we
didn't mention that you I think there's the potential there with some relatively minor changes to to improve that to meet the standards better um and then in both my report and in the engineers report there's one particular light that the location needs to be looked at as far as
off-site glare one one of the they reduced the height but they're still going to be some offside Clare so we need to work with them on that okay so so um you know I'll go ahead and make a motion for preliminary approval of the
project granting um the variances of parking lot setback um and buffering and um the parking lot a depth of 16 and 1/2 ft um on paring space parking what yeah
parking space a 4ot right 4ft buffer instead of the 0.5 so that's what we're that's what that's the relief we're granting um so um and then what we're going to do for final as we're going to come back and address all of the and I
don't not going to enumerate them again I'll just put in language that um all of the I got them all the conditions that we talked about tonight um in terms of of design and compliance with the variance relief that the board is uh granting
you and that's it second okay let's vote I didn't want to repeat this I know you do CU why didn't repeat councilman and Barson yes Theodor
Chase yes Robert Lort yes Sean Keller yes Jennifer ragnell yes Mah Rafi yes Charles Brown uh yes because I think it's a huge Improvement for the site much in favor of
it Robert Thomas yes and chairman orini yes all right thank you so much um just a procedural question I guess directed to the chair Andor Peter uh regarding final I assume that we go back to the
drawing board prepare a final and submit the final plat we submit it okay so you'll submit it and and once it's been received and I guess I mean I'm assuming it's an application for for it'll be an application for final site plan approval
with whatever the revised plans are and at that point it can be put before the board but it's there's no notice requirement for a final site plan no there's no notice requirement so consistent with what the board had approved at preliminary they don't need to notice right right yeah so as long as you don't need new variance relief you
will sub again I don't handle Logistics of submittal so I I would defer to Mark as to what needs to come and accompany the plans and well I I I think well we preliminary Final in that's what I going to say as far as it's going to maintain
the same pln number your fees have already been paid your escrow's already been paid we don't do preliminary and final a lot um my initial thought would be I don't think even think you need to submit a even a new form but I'll have to look into that but you might have to
submit a new application form for final but but again I think it's going to stay under the same pln number Etc but you'll let us know when the the plans the revised plans have been received and reviewed and then Christine you will work your magic and
schedule the final yes but Peter you'll prepare a draft of the resolution and I assume courtesy copy to the applicant's attorney for our review is that what you're doing now you're telling me what I'm doing wow yes I will I will prepare A draft copy and I will send it out as a
courtesy okay it was a question Peter it was I know I know I felt like I was are you Jim Clarin all right we got anything else tonight if not motion to adjourn everybody second motion to
adjourn all in favor see you in two weeks roughly