This is the public hearing for the final application for the diversion of preserved open space at Castleton Park which is at 8:16 Eastern Avenue in Franklin Township. So basically I start off by going what a diversion is and it's basically the
request from New Jersey D's green acres to remove already preserved open space from the green acres program. So once something is preserved as open space, it's done so in perpetuity. So any type of removal of that land is called a
diversion. And in order to be approved for a diversion, you have to have reasons that allow for it. So the reason we're using is that's fulfilling a compelling public need by mitigating a hazard to health, safety, and welfare. And I'll explain in a little bit how
Sonoko is trying to mitigate that potential public need. Um, >> so the the piece of property is gonna have its green acres designation removed because they're putting >> No, not all over the property just in this small area that we're talking about
for an easement. Yep. >> Um, you can also get a diversion if it's yielding a public benefit by allowing the government to deliver special service or if it's providing exceptional recreational or conservation benefit in a different way. Um our type of
diversion is considered a major diversion and that's because um it's not actually greater than.5 acres but it's for a private use. So Senoko is obviously a private company trying to divert public land. So that automat automatically makes us a major
diversion. So here's the steps for the major diversion. We've already done all of them and where you see in white is where we are right now. So, we did the pre-application meeting which involved a lot of mapping and looking at the property and getting a narrative from Senokco as to exactly why they need to
do it, approval from Green Acres to move forward with the pre-application. We then held a scoping hearing which was kind of explaining to the general public, you know, what are we trying to do here and why? So, very similar to what we're doing right now except it's
kind of like the first of two hearings. Um we then submitted the pre-application to Green Acres. They go through it. Once they approve it, they then move to the final application phase. So we have again now once in the once you're in the final application phase, the first part
you're kind of saying, I want to do this because and here's the public need we meet and this is why it's important and kind of showing sketches and giving some measurements. The final application includes an appraisal, a survey, a draft deed of easement to review. So really
the due diligence part of you know the actual diversion process. So that's what we've done so far. Now we're at the public hearing which is today September 25th. Once this public hearing is o over the public comment period will be open
till October 9th and we'll accept written comments until then. We then submit a record of this meeting. um the final public, they already have the full final application, but we basically kind of like just make sure everything's in place, then they'll review it. A
diversion actually has to be approved by the state house. So, it goes beyond Green Acres. Diversion has to be approved by the state house. The next available agenda for them is December 25th. So, this item will be on December their December 2025 agenda. Um, and if
the state house proves it, then the diversion's complete and then we just basically refile the deed to reflect the removal of these acres and then Sonogo can begin their work. So hopefully, you know, early spring of um 2026 they can
begin. >> Yeah. what um I have no opinion about it at all, but what was the reason for moving the valve from one side of East Valley to the other? >> So, okay, so I'm going to go through it, but um but basically the reason is is
that they want to have a remote access valve and so in order to where the valve is currently located, it's really not convenient. It won't work well with the remote the type of valve I guess it is won't work well where it is. Basically, they're saying in the first place that
was really never a great spot for it. This is really the best spot for it. It's going to make access to it easy when it has to be accessed and also it's just like kind of a better it's really just better for them to access especially in the case of you know an emergency or a public need. Um the
diversion total is going to be just4 acres. That's the permanent surface easement that will go to Sonokco. Um that'll allow the remote access. It'll be safer and more efficient. It's going to be enveloped by an 8ft vinyl fence that are going to have trees planted
around it and that will all be accessed by a 720 ft gravel driveway. Um, they also need to have a 07 acre temporary surface easement. This is just during the construction phase and I'll show you what it looks like. One year after the
work is completed, this temporary easement is extinguished and we retain that. So the only acreage of diversion that's going to be taken away from Castleton Park is just the 0.14 acres. Um as required, Senoko is going to compensate the township for the
diversion. So in the case of a major diversion that we have to be compensated at 10 times the appraised value, we in turn have to preserve four times the acreage in another part of town using that compensation which we have two
years to do. 44. >> Yeah. So, it's 0.56. And I'll show you the I'll show you the plan. No change in functionality of the park or encroachment on public access is anticipated. So, I sell we don't anticipate any
problems related to access to public use of the park. It's not going to infringe on anything. It's not going to take away an athletic field or threatened endangered species habitat or anything like that. This just shows you what was included in the final application that I told you about. So it has, you know, the
compensation proposal, a full site plan, survey, title, appraisal. Um, so we've already done all that work and that's why we're here. This is a image of Castleton Park and it shows you, so the area we're talking about right now is in Hey, how are you?
>> Um, we're just doing the diversion hearing for Castleton Park. So, but you're welcome to say. Yep. >> No, no, yeah. Where's the hearing? >> It's a it's a hearing. Yeah. So, you know, Ellen's here. Is there somebody from the company? >> No, just me. Yeah. So, the company normally doesn't come when it's
something like minor like this. Um, so yeah. No, usually it's just me. >> So, yeah. >> We're supposed to be giving them supposed to be signing off on this. Excuse me. >> No. So, we have to have the diversion complete first through Green Acres. So, that's our responsibility to have
that.14 acres diverted off. Um, and once that's done, then yes. Then so >> before it's been technically approved, we divert it. >> No, this is the final hearing before it gets approved to divert it. So we're hoping that the actual approval will
happen in December. So this is like hearing. We're going to have comments till October 9th and then we submit our final package with a record of the meeting and then it'll go to the state house for approval. So Senovo is not >> doesn't come to council at all. >> No, no, no, no. just goes through our
open space and through D green acres and then the state house. >> We don't have to award the easement. >> No, because the >> state has control of the easement. >> So the easement will be to Sonokco. It's not going to be hi Mary.
>> No. But who has the power to grant an easement? >> Um we do. The township does, the state does, the county does, depending on the type of easement. But in this case, who has to formally approve the easement? >> Um, when the Okay, so when the easement
is redone to show the removal of the 0.14 acres, it'll be signed by the mayor, approved by council at that point. >> Okay. >> Well, okay. My understanding was at some point we would be able to speak with them. >> So, does it go? >> Yes.
>> So, I was >> because I'm not going to prove anything without having communication if I have questions. I mean, I trust your judgment. Yeah, >> but I mean technically you can't speak for them, right? >> Well, I'm giving a presentation with all of the information from the application, >> but technically who would answer
questions for Synokco? >> So there I guess so could answer them. Yeah, I mean we've been working. >> How how do we as either citizens or council members >> ask questions directly of Senokco concerning the >> So normally what happens is during this
hearing, Senoko and I basically prepared this presentation together. You listen to it. If you have questions, if I can answer them, I will. If not, Senoko can. And I would email them. The public comment period is open till October 9th. So, it's 2 weeks after. >> So, the best thing to do is give you
specific questions and then >> again, we trust you, but I want to see the answers from them. I don't want to see them come through counsel, you know, then re, you know, capsulized and sent. The process, the state green acres process is that all written comments get
sent to Bob Warlocker, our representative at Green Acres, and then I get copied on it. Jessica Patterson at the state rep. >> Yes, she's at Green. Yep. They then >> we just the public whether we're here
tonight or any public >> gives the questions to you and Bob, >> right? And then exactly what happens after that? >> And then so they get so basically the well the process is the questions go to Green Acres, Jessica Patterson and Bob
Horn Locker. He forwards them to me. If I can answer them, I write back and answer them or I'll answer them during this hearing or so. I will if anything I can't answer like I've already done it today, I submit to Senokco. they respond in writing cuz the response to comments there's a super uh you know tight
response sway >> cuz I mean just like questions that I would want to hear directly from them. I'd want to see in their letterhead like >> um I mean how how many times are scheduled per year to use it? >> Okay. you know, things like that.
>> I have those answers from So, but but yeah, absolutely. >> And there may be some you don't know. And look, if you have more, I'm not trying to find things, right? >> Oh, yeah. I want to How do I I've dealt with a lot of >> Most people don't know, you probably know, we have six, eight pipelines. I have the map at home going all through
this town. >> I hear you. Yeah, you know, I've I've studied this a lot and I don't think it's an issue, but there's questions that I have that I would want to know, >> you know, because >> some of them maybe you have an answer you can provide, but I would, you know,
some of them I want to see them answer because comes to the front. Well, we never said that. Oh, I guess something not even meaning to mislead. It's just when you let multiple people handle the question, right? the person that ultimately had, you know, is, you know,
so whoever manages the site ultimately is the only one who can really answer on behalf of the company, >> right? >> They can answer on behalf of the company. Absolutely. >> Well, I don't want to hold you up. So, go ahead, present. And then maybe between us, we'll have all of our answers. I'm sure I know Ellen probably has.
>> Absolutely. Yeah. >> We just I'll be honest. I know I know that I can't speak for Mary or Ellen. >> I'm a little shocked and disappointed. I was told that somebody from the company would be here. >> Oh, okay. >> Maybe I was miscommunicated.
>> We were a little told >> I heard it from you. I don't know. >> Well, I heard it. >> So, typically diversion hearings, just so you know, if you ever see a diversion hearing, nine times out of 10, I sit here by myself and for a half hour just to like because no one usually ever comes, which is
>> I can appreciate that. But for our town is a little bit more focused. >> That's why companies typically or who like won't normally come because it's like no one usually will. So that's why I kind of like work with the press team. >> Well, you know better than anybody
get an answer from if you have some written officially like we need official answers. I want to quite frankly see it on their letterhead from their >> Yeah. Well, well, that's the reason that the comment period is set up the way it is and that's why Jessica at DP and Bob
get the questions. I don't get them. They get forwarded to me because there's a record kept and then the response has to go back through that way. So, they keep a record that we answered and it has to be in writing. So, if there's any questions, so no goal will respond. >> When you pass it back to us, it will be something on their head or their email.
>> Yes, absolutely. >> Don't just paraphrase. No, we can do it better than them. >> No, no, no. I have to um I have a written question. Okay, cool. I don't want to interfere. I'm sorry. >> No, no, you're good. You missing basically why we're here. >> So, wait a minute. Right off the bat, we
are then allowed to email Bob Warmoffer or is this out of protocol? >> Well, if you're if you're emailing as a member of the public, I'm going to show you the last side slide, the instructions of who to email. And yes, that is the process for communication. So, yes, and I'll show it to people.
>> Okay. Thank you. Appreciate it. No problem. Sorry for the uh confusion >> here. No biggie. Yeah. Um Oh, everyone's being recorded, too. I I told Ellen now when you came in, I have to submit the recording as well. >> It's funny cuz like I was giving my presentation and I completely forgot that we're being recorded.
>> I was like cracking jokes about what went on. >> No, you did a great job. It was a good presentation. I love it. >> It was fine. Yeah, I was like, "Oh, I forgot." >> So, this is Castleton Park. Um it comprises compos these two lots, 4303 and 4301.
recording. Oh, >> we're Yeah, it's already Oh, I have that as a backup in case it fails, but I have the I have the um I have the main recorder on as well. >> Um because I have to submit a transcript of the meeting, so I just double time it just to be on the safe side. >> Um so, we're working with these two
areas. This is all Castleton Park. 4301 is where the work is going to take place. And I'll show you exactly where within there just for your bearings. It's, you know, East and A is right up on above that to the north. Uh this is a tax map showing the Castleton Park and
the area. So you can see that blue square up in the lefthand corner up there. That's the area where the diversion is proposed for. This is a little difficult to read, but this is the site layout from the site plan that Senovo had to put together. So as part of the application, they had to
put together a full site plan and that included, you know, some of the grading and all of that. So this is a full site plan. I'm going to show you a better picture. Um, but this shows you exactly kind of like where they're looking to put all their valve sights and where the electricity source is going to be and the fence and etc.
This up close is on an aerial to show you. So the the inner square there, that's the 0.14 acre permanent surface easement. So that's what's going to So just that inner square permanent easement. The
Lshape around it is 0.07 07 acre temporary easement that's to be used when Sonoko is doing the work to install the new valve. One year after the work is complete that will extinguish and it reverts back to Franklin Township. So they have a temporary easement. They
finish the work one year after that comes back to us and the only diverted area of that is that inner square. This is a drawing that Sonokco put together um engineering did and so it shows you really what it is that they're proposing. So in the red square that's
the 0.14 permanent surface easement. Um the outside there the hatching is the temporary easement. Um and you can kind of see it's really I'm going to have to show you a better drawing, but basically in here so you can see there's a proposed electrical equipment rack which is right there. They have landscaping
proposed around. There's going to be an 8ft tall vinyl fence that will kind of protect this area. >> Is the red The red's going to be an 8ft tall. >> The red is the boundary of the um the red's the boundary of the 0.14 acre easement. This area here, see this?
That's the proposed >> I'm sorry. That's what I meant. >> Y where the little X's are. Yep. And inside the fence will be the proposed electrical equipment rack. Then around that there, this is proposed landscaping. So you can see there's some larger trees. Um there's some smaller
shrubs proposed. And then this up here at the top, this is East the gravel. There's going to be a 7 720 square ft gravel access way that's going to come off and go directly into there. So >> is that the existing curb cut?
>> Um yes, that is the existing curb cut. Absolutely. So yeah, so that will come right off of there. That'll stay for future. Um, and then you'll have get, like I said, this 8ft fence, but around it everything will be uh landscaped. >> Well, that's great. 8 foot. I thought they were normally four or five. When
you see these like pump or not pump stations, probably a bad word for use, >> but when you see these valves and stuff like further down East Avenue, there's a few. I mean, I think it's great that it's 18, but I normally they seem like they were smaller. >> They usually are smaller, but like the thing is is, you know, when you're going through this, you can negotiate with
with the company if they want it. So we basically said we'd like it a little taller hoping for like six feet. They proposed eight feet. So there we go. >> Does it prevents deer from getting in there? Maybe point. Yeah, cuz we were concerned and I know that's not part of presentation. Maybe we could ask you
later towards the end, but you know what we're looking to do. So um >> that might make things a lot uh easier. >> Oh, I'm sure it will. Absolutely. have to figure out how do you now the red the red line is that just the soft border
that's not >> yeah so that's at the time this was done that's engineering basically measuring out the 0.14 acre area so the ser a survey has been done which actually shows the exact boundaries but yeah that's the red line that's what they're going to have permanently and then the L
shape around it is the 0.07 07 temporary easement. >> So even with the so permanently that means it's permanently their property. But where is there going to be fence when it's all done? >> Just the fence is going to be just around this here
>> is a y around the electrical cabinet. And then in here where the valve right here is going to be. >> Okay. >> Um so yeah. So it's just that area not the whole not the whole thing. Yeah. Yep. Um this is now this is just showing you
in the red the temporary easement. So just to kind of show the difference. So this way you can kind of see just you know just so you're sure where the temporary versus the permanent is. So monetary compensation. So according to the green acres regulations the type
of diversion we are proposing is a major diversion because it's for a private um a private company. So even though it's a very small area, if it's for a private entity or company, immediate major diversion, that means that they have to compensate us monetarily at 10 times the
appraised the certified market value. Um, and I I I changed my words for a reason. I'll tell you in one second why. We in turn have to purchase open space land with this competation compensation at four times the amount of what we're
diverting. So we have to buy 0.56 acres of land using the money they give us and we have 2 years from the time the work is done. >> We're getting approximate we're give all this happens we'd be get giving them permanent easement which is kind of like
giving them the property for about an eighth of an acre. We go back and buy a half an acre >> correct >> somewhere >> somewhere else. Yeah. >> And the appraised value because when I looked on the maps >> Mhm. Um, I didn't get them from the tax.
So, I don't know if they're accurate, but they were in the millions for the property. >> Right. So, this property because it's already preserved as open space that it's it's not going to have the same value as a property that's available for fee because it's not developable. It's
already preserved land. So, that really takes down the appraised value. The appraised value that our appraiser got was 17,100 an acre. Then uh so puts together their compensation package 10 times 171 an acre. When it goes to green
acres they look at comps in the area. They look at other diversions and they look at the appraisal that was done 3 years back previous to this to come up with 158. So we get 158,000 and we have to use it to buy 0.56 acres
of open space for preservation within 2 years of the closing. So, at the time of the de of this being done, Snow Go will have to write us the check for $158,000. It'll go into our open space trust fund, and we have to use it to buy land
elsewhere within 2 years. >> So, >> okay. So, we we'll get 158 approximately. >> Yes. Uh that's that's the offer. That's the certified value from Green Acres. So the way it works even with farmland preservation when we do appraisals, we
submit them to an appraiser at the state level, they go through and make sure that what is actually what is reasonable based on the development potential and then they come back with the certified value and that's what we're able to get. So yeah, so it works out pretty good. >> Thank goodness I've been in attendance.
>> Yes, you know how it is. >> Absolutely. Yeah. So that is the monetary compensation. Other issues to consider, is there a feasible alternative to this diversion? No. And the reason why is that the Senoko pipeline runs in this area of the
park. This valve really according to Senokco should have been on this side of East A to begin with. Where it is located right now is inefficient and the manual operation of a valve, it's very outdated and it's also not safe or efficient. that they don't have the
ability to actually like maintain it or monitor it remotely. Right now at this point everything is manual which is really not good. >> Is it between the canal and the river? >> Right now the current valve is on the other side of east and a between what you say between the canal and the river.
>> Canal and the river. It's somewhere downream from >> it is I don't think it's exactly between the canal and the river. I think it's more on the canal side. closer >> between the guard rail now and that kind of Well, >> it's very close, but it's not like right
on the river. Yes. So, >> is it And it's in that area. It's in that. Yes. >> I I remember >> it's been many years since I would actually cross East and go down there. >> One time we used to literally walk across and go fish.
>> Um, so the pipes are over there. Is this a similar um situation as I'm sorry I don't have the address. I'm going to say down by Culver off of East Avenue. You see a a fenced out. That's where I was
saying I think it was like a 4 to 6ft chain. >> Okay. Yeah. >> But um they have pipes valve. It looks like there's valves. It looks like it's a similar makeup as what this would be. Do you know what that's what that is for the other? I know there's a couple of pipelines that come underneath. I'm not
sure about that, but I can ask so that or if you want to ask so that absolutely. I would imagine it is. I don't want to say 100% that it is, but I I would think it is. So, but I can find that out. >> And from what we were told, and and it sounds not only legitimate, but but
wise, if I'm understanding it, is because of the safety, accessibility, and especially the the possibility for flooding. >> Correct. You technically are in a flood plane when you're on >> um the other side of each >> other side. Yes. >> Um
>> and then when you get on >> Yes. It's much >> your elevation goes up about 20 ft and it's not considered a flood plane. I only looked at maps that you know weren't certified. But is that your understanding? >> You're correct. You're 100% correct. It's not in a flood plane. And it allows
them also to monitor the valve remotely. So right now they really can monitor it remotely. But the good thing is is that now having this, they can kind of like hook it up to their other technology. It'll be much safer. It'll be easier to potentially catch something. It'll be easier. Yeah. It'll be out of the flood plane. You don't have to send a a human
being there to do the work. They can do I mean at sometimes they might have to go there, but not all the time. A quick juices out of curiosity, maybe it's not part of this conversation, but like the other belt that's like there now, are they going like they commission it? Are they going to like pull it out and just
put straight pipeline in there or they >> There's no plan for that as far as I know. There's been there's never been any discussion of that. I think they just leave it there because I don't I think it's probably not worth them like taking the valve off and fixing it. Like they can just basically keep it at shut off.
>> It's not malfunctioning. It's not malfunctioning. No. >> So, there is no schedule for how much time they would have to spend on site there for a year. >> So, okay. Yes, there is. Oh, >> let me tell you in one sec only because time to get out of this presentation,
but I did get that from so because another member of your public asked that. Um, let's see what else. So, if the nothing is done, the valve can't be replaced, which means that the remote access can't be installed. And I already went through the compensation package with you. Okay. I wanted to do this
before I tell you about my email. So this is the official comment >> route. So in our public notice, this is what's noticed in our public notice. So any comments you want to submit by October 9th in writing to our township
manager, Bob Warlocker. Uh you can submit it in email, but you have to do it to him and I both of us, right? Because he has to get a record of it. You should also submit a copy to D's Green Acres program. Um, you don't have to because I can submit it to them on
your behalf. But the reason why the comment period, first of all, it's outlined in the legislation. So, we have to follow this comment route because everything is recorded. They want to make sure we're answering everyone's questions in a timely fashion, which we absolutely are. Um, but yes, you should email Bob Warlocker your questions and
he will forward it to me and then I will make sure that you get a response. So, that's that. >> So, not not CCU, but just to him. >> You should just send it to him. Yeah, you should. I mean, if you want to CC me, you can, but the main thing is he has to get that email. He is the He's
the like interceptor of the email. Yeah. >> I mean, it's good to have. >> Yeah, it makes sense. Absolutely. Yep. Um, now, so I did get an email, a few emails this morning. There was one person that had a comment and they asked some of the questions. So, I pulled up
the email here cuz I figured someone here, you know, might be interested. So the question that this person from the public had is and what you're reading here is from Senokco. Say it's from Kyle Donnelly. >> Thank you. >> Yeah, it's from Kyle Donnelly. I don't know did he sign
letter head but something that shows that there is >> Yeah, absolutely. So this is the first I speak with this is just some of the questions that were asking me but maybe it'll help. Uh has Synoko identified how often they need to access the valve. So he basically says after it's constructed there's going to be routine site inspections. It could be up to one time
a week. Every 6 months to one year, more detailed equipment operational checks would be conducted. >> Oh, yeah. Yeah. >> So, they're they're assuming it's going to be a once a week. >> Yeah. So, I think the I think really in the beginning what they're saying is it's going to be like once a week to
make sure the valve is functioning properly. um if they need to kind of check, you know, make sure the valve is correct, you know, everything's working well, then every 6 months to a year, they'll do a more detailed equipment check. Um and then they'll come right in off of the nav on their path, so they
don't have to go through the park or anything like that or through where you guys are planning on planting trees. They don't have to go through there at all. They have their own access way. Um has So provided details, actions they would take? Well, it's the same answer actually. he provided every time it's
accessed. So he wrote the same answer. Um this person said this is natural gas. Another resident told me it's oil and his response is that this is liquid petroleum. That's what it is. It's not natural gas. It's not oil. It's a liquid petroleum pipeline. Um and they support
the they supply the jet fuel to Newark airport. That's really what >> is that what this main one is? >> Yeah. Yep. Yep. >> Thank you. >> Um there's an electrical box on the diagram. Is there a planned building or cabinet to be installed? If so, who will pay for the electricity and how is it run? An electrical rack, which I showed
you up before, I'll show you again. An electrical rack with cabinets is planned to support the remote valve so pipeline will have a utility meter and pay for the electricity. Um, and then this person's question was, "Having a valve on a natural gas pipeline is under
pressure means there might be fugitive emissions when the valve is adjusted. has so detailed the valve and whether or not pressure in the pipeline increases when the valve is turned on. So Kyle's response is the valve operation does not change the pipeline pressure. The valve
will normally be left open and is intended to be closed for maintenance or emergency response. Is this valve manual or electric? The current valve is manual. That's the one I was telling you about on the other side of the snap. That's manual. The new valve will be electrically operated.
>> Just pause there for a moment. Yeah, >> I assume there's some kind of manual backup if the >> I would assume so. I don't know that >> maybe we could put forward. >> Yeah, absolutely. >> I'm just curious technical standpoint that everything would have a manual
backup >> and this >> I know the idea is to go kind of high tech here >> but ultimately that all relies on >> the power. >> I can forward that question being tech. >> Uh let's see. Does Senoko perform the
valve adjustments on site or remotely? Operation of the new valve will be conducted remotely. On-site maintenance, inspection work would be conducted as needed. Um, and then these are questions I as answered before and I asked Senco to just verify them. So, they left them
in. Um, they said, "Is there any, you know, uh, where is it? How long does SAO require this modification to be in place?" And I basically again explained it's going to be the 0.14 acre permanent easement for maintenance of the valve. The temporary will be extinguished one
year after the work is completed. Has Sonoko provided decommissioning or abandonment planning details for when they no longer require this access? And the answer is so is going to have permanent access and there's no decommissioning or abandoning plans in place. Um
>> plans. Does that mean to be plans? >> Plans. Yeah, that's probably plans. I was I was just >> in this proposal where Senoko is offering 10 times the price. Can you please detail what 10 times the price means? And that's I went through the process of green acres certifying a value based on the appraisals that we
submitted. We are going to get the $158,000 and we have to purchase.56 acres of land within 2 years using that funding. And that was the So those questions came in to Bob Warlocker this morning and we responded before this
meeting. So, anyone who has questions, we're we want to answer them quickly. We want to get everyone their responses immediately if possible. So, >> my little question was Ted J's question basically um during the meeting of in
that easement zone, we're not allowed to plant trees. >> Correct. >> The question is, are we allowed to have anything other than mul grass? Can we have tall grass? I will ask that, but I'm think it's going to be no. But I will ask that for sure in the easement area or around the easement area.
>> I I think Mary, what you're referring to is the area. We probably should look at a slide to make sure we're all on the same page, so to speak, but the area north of actually be south, but we'll point it out of of where Yeah. Now, that
was a good question that came up in your presentation. Not in the rement, but yes. >> Like this is a pipeline. >> Our understanding is 25 ft from the pipeline, we can't put trees. So that's >> that's about >> I mean that's pretty far out like this.
>> So anywhere here, you know, like like this area, this area we allowed to put what are we allowed to plant basically? >> Okay, that I I can >> short grass, tall grass. I think the big question was uh it was earmarked from let's just say our refined plan if it's
what moves forward to have native >> grass long grass I don't think but grass that probably is a foot or two high >> flowers >> but not it could be 3 4t >> okay a few feet high but not any shrubs or any rooted trees in other words not
planting anything native grass >> got it just grasses grasses and >> because that is what we hope move moves forward with the rest of the fill in around the area. So, it would just keep consistent. If it had any short mode,
>> then that would be fine, too. But if you could find out uh >> generally okay with something like that makes them look a good publicity. >> Yeah. Unless there's some technical reason that there would be that they don't want it on there. I yeah I'm not sure if you
know I can't let me I'll ask that question and I'll get back to you after the meeting. I'll email them these questions and >> other than that 25 foot buff I don't know if that's 25 on each side or 25 total. >> It should be on each side usually. Yeah.
>> I don't even know if there's 25 from there to the other property line but that doesn't matter. That's private property. But for us it's be 25 ft >> right >> from uh that pipeline going kind of east this way. >> Um now
>> anything in that temporary easement assuming it's granted that other than a 25 ft buffer where it says like L4 that we could do what we want. Correct. temporary once it's extinguished. >> Once it's extinguished a year later
because it comes back to us >> probably would just be long grass but the but the fact is we wouldn't be able to do it. >> Absolutely. Still that would be our property. We can do what we want as long as it's one year after the work is done. >> So next question is the fence.
I wasn't clear about it, but we basically wanted a deer along East Avenue because of the deer that you you explained, the deer that like >> Well, they're all over the place. We were hoping that that would be part of it. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. So, yeah. I mean, like I thought I thought they're going to have fencing
all around this whole thing >> at the end, but they're not. Like if we play a deer fence, >> um it seems like we may want to wait until they're done doing what they're doing and then and have it go up to there, I guess.
>> Yeah. >> But we have to >> and there's going to be a hole. They're going to still be able to get through there. >> We would have to take uh if it goes across as planned. And and every time I look, there's so much deer. I I hope that's part of it. But we would have to
kind of well we would have to put it on that red line so to speak or our our side of the red line and go down to the corner to the corner Mary >> here >> here and then to there is what we'd have
to do. Obviously avoiding um put in any um post near their pipeline. >> Yeah. Yeah, >> is that something that we should put in questions to them or that you would discuss with them informally? What is the best way to
proceed? because there's a lot of you know people are hoping and we're hoping that some basic deer fencing is part of that forested initiative because it is just a horrible situation with deer and that is a main entry and exit point for east.
>> Got it. Yeah. How long? Okay. Yep. I can definitely ask that. It's nice they'd have the 8ft fence, but if we can't encroach or do anything on their call
shaded blue area like where that aid is. Say that's say that's the line that the fencing comes across the front east and we can't go past that red line after it's vacated temporary easement. It's not like we can go and lock into their fence. I'm assuming if we could it would make things a lot easier and I don't
think it would affect their situation if that's something that is very territorial. >> I'm sure they wouldn't mind that. I cannot imagine that they would have a problem with that, you know, because their fence is there is going to be there anyway. So, what's the difference? You know, >> to me it wouldn't be a difference, but
you know, I understand they have their standard operating procedures and safety issues that you probably don't >> understand. I would hope so, but if we could just find out because then as we're hopefully moving that other project along with bid specs and
whatnot, we'll know whether we need >> Yeah. Just practicality and cost. Of course, the easiest thing would be to just come lock in right to there. >> Got it. Yeah. Okay. >> But but otherwise, we have to just go whatever that's probably about 60 70 more feet this way and about 50 ft going
that way. So it would it would >> it would add to it and aesthetically I mean again it if if it can be worked out with them that'd be wonderful at least we know >> what our rights are. >> Got it. >> Worst case scenario. >> Yeah that makes sense. That would also
lend to the argument of having us maintain the easement on either side of the existing pipeline because know you don't want their equipment coming into the park and they would have to get their mowing equipment in that
way in order to um do anything with the tall grasses which would only be once a year. So we'd have to work out with them who maintains the meadow over the pipeline. No, no. We Well, I was going to say I don't want to speak for Terara, but my understanding is as
it's been for the 50 60 70 years that pipelines been in there. I'm not sure. >> We maintain that. Yes, >> we maintain anywhere there's not >> permanent easement. >> We maintain. >> So um mowing being done over the native
grasses at Negrioti at the wrong time of year, that was our fault. That was the fault. So that our we maintain that the township maintains negriot and so that that's following the New Jersey autobond. So we had a plan done a native
grass plan done by the New Jersey Autobon Society. So we actually bought the mower they told us to buy and we mow the one time a year they tell us to mow to and also to prepare for the prescribed burn. So the burn was done at John Clyde but it wasn't done at night this year because they didn't have enough fire service people which I
understand but >> I'm sorry. DW. >> Yes. DW. Yeah. >> So, but they that was what was recommended by the Ottabon. >> Yeah. Well, what time when did they what are you talking about? That they mowed >> years ago, but it was it was when the
grasses were tall. That's not when they're supposed to be mowed. >> So, yeah. So, Ottabon recommended that they mow. Hi, how are you? That they mow um I think it's end of August is typically when they're supposed to mow. It should be March or at
>> well March or April is nesting season. So that's why we can't mow there >> at that point. >> Well, we have to get that straightened out because >> that's according to Autobond. Yeah. So that's who that's who we we hired Autobond to put together the plan for both those places. >> Yeah,
>> that's for Negri. That's for Negri. Yeah. >> This would be >> we don't have to get Ottabbon to >> Oh, no. No. We'll still maintain it. If you guys do want to plant grasses there, specific grasses that require mowing at a certain point, we should absolutely let DPW know. And if it requires a
certain mower because otherwise they're going to mow it on their monthly schedule, right? If there's an area, what we can do is uh we designate to them where the area is and then they'll have special mowing instructions for that area. We're >> in discussion with them. >> Okay. Yeah. Perfect. Oh, you have Connor. So, yeah. So, he'll help you.
Yeah. >> Yeah. He's he's great as the liaison and I'm sure knows a lot about how they go about that. Really the most important question relevant to us and I know this may not technically be relevant to them
being granted diseasemen but um just that was my main concern and and then some safety technical questions that you've already answered many of them and thank you. I appreciate you and Bob getting right on that and Selco seems very um timely. >> They're great. Yeah, they're great. Um,
but the two major things and and just to me was how the fencing could all work. >> Mhm. >> You know, make everybody happy and keep it the simplest and then what we're allowed to plant um >> in that area. >> Keep on saying south, but technically
it's like west of that red line of that type of eastment. Okay. And then if it's short grass, >> I don't run PW, but I think every 10 or days or two weeks, they're on a rotating crew that they go out and do all these parks. The parks that are used and low
grass, regular grass is cut. >> Um, obviously weather and other things can could alter that. And then the long grass, I don't know enough about part of what shade tree, uh, you know, is involved with the technical aspects. if we can go with the long grass. My understanding from everything I'm
learning from from you two and others is that you do it once a year, twice tops. So, we would then do that, but it wouldn't have to be I don't know anything about the other one that you were talking about. I'm sure I'm sure that we would um
>> working with shade tree and public works >> that they would do it at the proper time. It's just a matter of if we're allowed to put long grass or short grass. If you're allowed to put long grass there, you can. Yeah, we can absolutely work with DPW and let them know, you know, we want to mow this time
of year and this time of year only to use the special mower that you bought. I want it to be this many inches of grass. Like you can designate, I don't I want you to cut it down to 4 in or 3 in, whatever you want, 6 in, you know. Um, but we have to tell them that otherwise, yes, they will put it on their rotating
schedule and it'll get mowed it'll get mowed down. So I think like our next steps, not this of course um what I heard Bob say was that we'll have to work with the engineering department to draft like
specs or proposals, >> right? >> But besides that, I think there's this long-term planning too that we have to work out. >> So I think that's something separate. >> What do you mean long-term planning? term like what what is like there's going to be responsibilities of
contractors and the responsibility for >> like maintenance humanity. Y >> well we're going to probably get into that a little bit at our meeting and those are important mer but for what you need to do that's kind of irrelevant to this no and I'll get these >> but the main part is the grass thing and
the fence thing because then the rest of it we kind of take and and work on our own. >> Absolutely. Yeah. So I will um I'll reach out to Kyle and he'll write me back and then I can forward you the email. It'll be from him and I'll ask him also just so I mean I know you know but I'll tell him just like not just be
like hey Tara like to write it you know like formally so you know >> because this project you know you know this way if there is >> I don't have any you know issue with they they have a lot of pipelines and they need to be safely maintained
obviously one of them is protected. >> Well you're um You're on the wrong side of the table. >> I mistook I mistook the red the where it says overhead utility, the gray line. >> I'm thinking that's the pipeline. >> Oh, >> but the red line is the pipeline and
that kind of jets out. So there probably is that 25 ft. See, I was thinking there's not even 25 ft between that behind >> cuz that's basically the fence of those people. Okay. So now I'm understanding it. So they have a nice um uh you know they'll have a buffer.
>> Yeah. for what they need running all the way down the back side. >> Absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely. >> I'm glad to see. Well, okay. So, >> if you're not allowed to have trees on either side of the pipeline, why are they proposing to plant trees in there?
>> So, they're trying to guard they're trying to block out the fence because so it's going to be an 8ft tall vinyl fence, which is nice, but like in, you know, it's not the most attractive thing. See, >> they're trying to find a way to block it and make it like, you know,
>> but I just feel a scientific technical thing that you have to imagine. >> No, no, no. You you can put the trees there. You just can't dig down far, have a root, a tree that's rooted far enough down. All of this is way down. Um, >> I'm sure they'd be okay with you putting
trees there. I think the main thing is they just don't want trees or shrubs in an area where one of their equipment's going to like roll over it or, you know, someone's going to come out and they're accidentally going to cut something down. You know, >> I was just concerned if there's any >> Right. Absolutely. >> I just want to understand there's no trees, no trees for boat and I can't do
it. And then >> I think they're very amable to whatever. I think they're very they're very easy to work with. I got to say they've been great. They've been very So if you have a like I'd really like to plant this here. Tell me and I will say is this possible? Will this work? you know, so
>> kind of irrelevant, but just you're talking about it >> here all the way around that park. >> There used to be white pines all the way down and then some of them died off >> and I don't know what point they they
>> but it's not so much they didn't want sh they don't want people and then going to replace it if it died or something. That's why >> contemplate I'm thinking now that that's the reason why we
>> but at one time there was a road 6700 ft >> wow that's beautiful most of that trail towards the baseball learn how to do this >> yeah oh my gosh okay vinyl fence they want to um I'll go to my Google or something
>> um so I think it's going to be like green or brown to try to like get it try and that's Yeah, that's what I was going to ask if they could do it that we're where it would blend in with the >> They're very Yeah, they're very willing. So, >> well, that's the thing. They're not
going to be putting the fence up for a while. If like you happen to go out there and you're like, "Oh, Brown would be better. Tell me." They're very, very easy to work with. >> We're not looking to micromanage. I mean, as a council or as a commission, but at the same time, if there's a a way to communicate, so everybody ends up
better feeling better. Whether they purchase a green or a brown, I don't think it matters. Or white. Say for some reason you're like, "You know what? We love white and we want white." I'm sure they'd be happy to do that, too. >> Oh, thank you. >> But this is going to go to the state house commission in December. That's when it'll be approved by the state of
New Jersey. Then it's probably going to take like a month or a month and a half to get everything, you know, rolling. And hopefully SNO can start, they're hoping to start in like March or April. So that's what we're looking at. So we still got plenty of time for little details and but the public comment period goes to October 9th. I'll make
sure I get these responses to you Brian tomorrow to the uh questions and any others that come in, we'll keep answering. >> Yes, I'm near here. >> I'm going to be out of your way in a few minutes. >> I saw that there was a meeting here at
at 6:00, 6 to 7. >> Yeah. >> And I'm thinking, I hope they're out of here by 7. >> Yeah. So, it's just this diversion hearing um for the Senoko pipeline. >> Right. Right. Yeah. I saw that and and it didn't even dawn on me when I see you here. Oh yeah, you know, open stage.
We've talked about you coming to Sh. >> We have. Yes. Here every night. Yeah. Well, soon I'll be here every night. >> Do they have Do they have a cut for you in the >> I know, right? I know. I know. >> But you know what actually works out good because every all of my things kind
of intertwine. So it it's helpful that way. So, does anyone have any more any questions about the diversion? >> Is this the That's it. >> That's it. Yeah. >> Um, just curious, what's the little bump out in the top left over there that says Grand View Avenue?
>> Uh, oh, this up here. Why is it here? >> Yeah. >> So, it looks like this is a screenshot that was probably taken from a larger uh plan. And this is probably maybe like a legend up here or a call out sheet. >> Yeah. because you know
>> it looks like it's a call out the only comment and we know >> do you see any I know >> the plan isn't developed and the bidspecs you have a good sense of what we're looking to do and you know this better than anybody I don't see any reason
>> um that if we're doing some work with our forestation and they're doing that work >> it would matter if it's going on at the same time. That's why they have a temporary
long construction passive active recreation. So that was very concerned understandably by making sure he understood this real well before we started space for the rest. So >> So it's all going in a sequence and a
timeline. You're comfortable with it. We don't see it interfering with our plan because we're hoping >> really hoping that >> No, I don't see any problems and they have their own access. They're working in their own area. There shouldn't be any interference. No. >> Yeah. But the thing is what if we're
going to be assuming ownership of the temporary easement that's going to be on dealt with if we begin work on the rest of the property. And there's going to be this big L-shaped wedi area that's left remaining.
>> Well, that area is that in the area I the area you guys are proposing is like right in here, isn't it? It's this whole area. >> We haven't decided. It's kind of go I mean technically whatever we do can go up to here and up to here.
>> Correct. with the idea that this part would be the last thing to be done and likely likely to long grass if we're allowed to >> because it goes then from various trees
shrubbery to some grass and then their >> fence and shrubbery. Well, that's that would be shrubbery and then they'll fence in the smaller part. Now, is this the scale? Because this looks a lot longer. I thought this was only about 100 feet their total and I look 100 feet
is to here. So I'm just wondering if if this is the scale or just longer skin. No, that's >> So it's longer and skinnier than I would have thought. >> It is. It is. It's only 0.07 acres and they try to make it as small as they possibly can to get their construction vehicles in there.
>> Well, one way that's good uh because then >> there's a tree there. They're not gonna Yeah. you know, it's maybe even better because then more of it could be, you know, our finished product from here. >> Yeah. >> Uh it's just that because their their area that's off limits goes a little
further up, but it's probably better than if it was wider that way. Just personal opinion the project that we're trying >> to do that part last like you said. I mean, they're not going to be working in there for 6 months a year. I mean, they're trying to get in there, get this valve done, and get out. They do not want to be there a long time. So,
they're going to be quick. So, >> so depending when they actually do this work, like >> when are they going to plant trees? I guess we're we're kind of like >> after the fence. I mean, that's going to be the last thing they do. >> You know what? Let me ask them how like
I I'm dubious about planting trees in July, August. That's all. You mean say they finish and it's >> say they finish their their work and it's June and they're they want to do a nice like they promised a nice shrubbery camouflage around the already hopefully
camouflaged vinyl fence >> that you you >> well without trying to micromanage their project. Isn't that something that changes wood or is that something you can uh guide them through? uh because we don't want their good efforts,
>> you know, be because they're technically I don't think uh have to go back and >> and you know, make sure they're perfect in two years. They're going to plant it and then probably just leave it. >> Yeah, I'll ask them. I think Shade Tree can definitely I'm sure they'd be welcome to the help and so I'll ask them. I'll ask them what time of year
>> and also like are they going to like plant them immediately once the project is done? Are they going to write wait for the right time of year? So, I'll ask them that. And Mary, if if it's May, like April or May, it could be a good time to plant. But you're saying you wanted to wait till the fall. >> If it's if it's going to be the summer,
you prefer >> stay away from July, August, >> then if they can't have that shrubbery in by say like early June, you'd rather have them do it in the fall. >> And that's still plenty of time before I don't know if there's a bond or anything, but before their temporary is
vacated. So they have a cushion. >> They have time. Absolutely. Yeah. >> The idea is we want to plant it to where it's going to look the best and survive the best. >> Are we talking about planting trees next fall? >> Are we talking about planting trees in the flow?
>> I'm just talking about talking and their project and their plans to put trees into their property. So I just I was just asking about that if >> they're planning that we don't control directly but hope to have some some say
in just so that the best >> Hey, how are you? >> How are you? >> Good. >> That's it for me. I'll get out of your way and let you question the pipeline. I I I'm
curious if they can provide just for a visual a similar buildout like this whether it's in Franklin or some over town. I'm just curious if or
a picture of the finished product. I'm just curious. >> Yeah, I can ask being camouflaged with that vinyl fence. >> I don't think it really matters. Nothing would be sticking over level, right? All their valves and all their equipment would be under
patrolling. I mean, it's only going straight out right now. I need it to like I can prove it up