In accordance with the Open Public Meeting Act of the State of New Jersey, adequate notice of this Wednesday, October 8th, 2025 meeting of the Franklin Township Trails Advisory Committee was posted on the township's website and electronically transmitted to the officially designated newspapers
indicating that this meeting would take place at the municipal building on October 8th at 7 p.m. Next item, it's roll call. >> All right. Vanessa Joan >> here. >> Amber Arleski is absent.
Uh Christopher Gonda >> present. >> Jim Koligowski >> here. >> Lal >> here. >> Patrick Murray >> here. >> Um Jasha Patel >> present. >> Okay. Uh Robert Kovac >> here.
>> Council member Alex Karazzi here. Did I miss anybody? No. Okay. All right. [Music] Um, next item on our agenda is the
approval of our September b um minutes. Have a motion. [Music] Second. >> Second.
>> Discuss. Um I didn't have access to the recording for uh the last meeting. Um so but if we're moving to approve then >> yeah I thought they were good. Yeah.
>> All in favor? >> No extensions or carries. Um next item on our agenda is public comment. I have a motion. >> Um, okay.
[Music] He's Mary Louco. I have North Folk Road. Um, I represent myself as well as the Sha Tree Commission. I'm also open space as Tara mentioned. Um, I have a question
regarding a topic that came up at Open Space a couple of months ago. I don't remember all the details, but it involved a trail, a walking trail um from one of the parks in um somewhere Ward 4, I believe. Um maybe from Neon
Williams. Was that part of that project? Okay. And I think Open Space approved the proposal to to develop that walking trail. It would walk You go along streets mostly I think. >> Well, that was through the microability study. >> Yes, but that is through this committee.
You're correct. Yeah. >> Um and um so I've been knocking around the idea around uh chain tree folks. Um and and also we have a project that we
proposed and got great reception from open space about um reforesting Katala Park in W 5 um with the idea >> Park um so that for quality of air improvement and in general there was
this um health um advisory study I don't remember the specific name But um the township had this health study um and it specifically recommended adding trees in WS four and five um for the benefit of
the residents. So we're thinking that this trail I think is going to go along streets without added signage I believe um that's connecting some other part of the town which I don't remember. Um, but we're thinking if people are going to be
walking there, sun's beating down on them. How about if we provide shade and we put shade trees along the way? Um, and I think we have plenty of funds in the shade tree um trust fund to provide trees. We can contract out to people to
do the work if DPW is not available. Um, and so if um not here to get approval, but it's just an idea to consider and I'd like to get information from you about where this is, what it is, and then we can
maybe scope out to see if there's actually room in the sidewalks to add trees because we don't know. It just it just occurred to me when I saw that presentation. So that's it. I can pull I'm going to pull up a map for you to show you where it is. But I think that's a great idea and it's like another
example of how all these plans are now building off of each other, which is great. We have the local health assessment informing the community energy plan informing this microobility study. And now I think that's a great idea. Um, so I'm going to show you this is the micromobility study. It is
on our website and I'll show you where it is, but I can also email you the link, Mary. Don't worry about it. I can email you it. Uh, let's see here. So, let me get a good picture of where we're coming from. I think these are too close up. It's probably here.
Uh, okay. Let's see. Bear with me for one second here. Um, I'm trying to see if the root is on here. Just bear with me. I want to show you the right one. >> I did. It's over here.
>> It's here from Neon Williams. And it basically goes through these streets past the youth center in between the two schools over to um the township building. Let me see if I can get a larger view of it out here. It's on Let's go to this map and see if we can
if it'll show it. It does include striping, signage, uh bike racks. I'm just looking for a good Okay, let's see if I can find Uh, it's here, but it basically is very
small. So, >> then it goes to you, right? >> A3. >> Yeah. Let me find map A3 [Music] here. Although, it would be weird that it would be Hold on. You know what? I think I don't have all the append. Hold on. Okay, here
we go. Let's get all the appendices. [Music] So, yeah. So, this is on our website, but I'll send you the link. Like I said, this is map two. Map three.
[Music] >> All right. This is a portion of it. We want to see. Okay. >> Yeah. >> This shows you the whole thing. So, let me see if I blow it up. Okay. So, I'm not going to blow it up anymore only cuz but basically it starts at Nan
Williams Park, right? And it goes through um what street is this? Persing and Chester. It kind of like goes through here as you can see. It comes up by the youth. Here's the youth center. Um then
it kind of follows through. It goes in between Hillrest Elementary and Franklin Middle School. So that's one part of it. And then [Music] uh let's see these match the way that
they are. It's kind of out of order, but >> that's the other side. That's New Brunswick Road. >> Yeah, that's the other side. I'm trying to look for the what I showed you is kind of the the baseline starting over at Nathan Williams Park. I'll put on a bigger map
for you. >> Like two paths kind of like two. >> It did. Yeah, it's two options basically. But when we looked at it, we want to definitely go past the youth center. That is important. This is really the best map I'm going to show you right now. But the idea is Oh,
match line to A2. Okay, I have to go up one. That's why. Okay, so as you're coming through, the good thing is so we did a lot of work at Nan Williams Park in terms of the green infrastructure and making sure that that path is functional, which it basically now is.
Um, we want to go past the youth center. That's where we have ideas for putting the bike racks in, the bike shared. We want to extend the curb there in some places, repair some portions of the sidewalk, and we're basically really trying to figure this out. So, this is a concept plan at this point, but once you
get past here, once you get past HillR Hillrest and Franklin Middle School, let me go up for some reason. Okay, too far. Um, so basically here is where that line matched up. then you can basically
keep coming. Over here is where they have this big idea for a bike boulevard and that's like a big project which is like really doing a lot of road realignment and um putting a roundabout in which is still a great idea. Um the ultimate goal is you end up basically
cutting through Inman Park and attaching onto the existing JFK Boulevard and then you keep following that over to Deont Lane. And so we're matched up here now. So you're going to keep following this all the way to the existing path at Deont
Lane, which you then can get to Middle Bush Park or the um or the complex or even you come down here and get to Samson G. Smith School. So the plan is on our website. I'm going to send you the link, but on top of the map, what I just showed you every map. So this is
map A1. We're looking at this section of town right now from here to in from here to Samson B. Smith school. Basically underneath it there's a table of recommendations and it really shows like what we need to do. Some are very simple fixes. Some are very extensive. But I
love the idea of working with shade tree to put the trees along some portions of it even. I think that's great >> even to just get started on some >> um so I think what we need to be careful about is is the order in which the work
gets done because >> like if there's only cur work done to the curbs and uh >> right blocks we don't want to hurry up and put trees there and then they get damaged as well so it's hard to
coordinate then >> for sure yeah I love And I think what I would recommend when do you think that can be completed? Do we have at least part of the thing done or >> uh we don't have part of it done but we do have it also aligns with our pathways
and trails plan which we just adopted. There's some parts that are super expensive. There's some that are we can we can do with striping. So I mean it's definitely something we have to work on in phases. Um and it's kind of going to be determined by by funding for sure. But the good thing I think is is we have
enough things in place now between our pathways plan, our health plan, the microability study to be able to get I think some grant funding for it. So, and Jere like they're saying they have money for the trees, which is great. Um, but I think Mary I think the good thing would
be maybe I don't know what the best order would be, but maybe we should look at it and figure out like a start a place to start and coordinate it and then you on your end can work on that with shade tree commission. So maybe we start off with like a striping project that doesn't involve construction. This
way we can get some trees in at the same time. >> It doesn't have to be like we have to start in the beginning and end point. We might have to start in the middle to like kind of get it going, but or maybe we want to start where we can already link with something. You know what I mean? But maybe I'll put that on the agenda for next meeting. So,
>> who's leading this project or is there any lead or is like >> different? >> Well, it's us. So, for the microobility study, that's we're getting the NJ award for that and the community energy plan. They're kind of like sister plans. So, it's the trails committee and the
environmental commission. But for this it would be the trails committee. Um and then if shade tree wants to help us out then you know I think we're willing to take their lead on like when the trees should be planted and what types of trees like we would follow your >> your
best is very interested in >> in adding trees and words four and five. >> I think word four is not his word but he can work with >> okay on that. So, >> well, may we start over there by name in then?
>> Glad to go out and like walk the area with you. >> Mhm. >> Just coordinate. Um, >> okay. So, maybe what we'll do then for our next agenda, I'll put it on as an agenda item and we can look over in the area of Naven Williams Park boards four and five to start. We can come up with
like, hey, we think this is a feasible project we can work on now at DPW. That's who else we need their help with. Um, and then we can coordinate. >> Just my personal perspective. I was thinking >> if you want the kids to go to that community center, try to make it as
friendly as possible. >> I agree with you. No, I think that's great. >> I think it's great. as >> you have concentrate around that area because the rest of that area uh down Burger and um Magnolia over across Jake
and Magnolia is pretty well has a has a pretty decent canopy along the street already. >> I think we want to look at the heat island effect like >> Exactly. staying Yeah. closer over there to makes a lot of sense to look around at different things that you can do
there. >> Yeah. Yeah, I remember like going doing that route. I don't remember the tree canopy. I wasn't paying attention. I want to go. >> Imagine yourself going out in July and taking a walk. >> Yeah. >> Well, no. It makes it look Yeah, it works the tree canopy. And you know, we
actually applied for a grant um through one of the federal agencies through Noah through the um the National Oceanic. Yeah. Yeah. We applied, we didn't get it, um but we applied for them to do a heat island management program where
they would provide us like the um not like thermometers but like the handheld like you know and you monitor every month what the temperature is and then as you plant trees you continue seeing it. So that would be something maybe we could think maybe or maybe Sha Tree would be interested maybe Shay Tree has a better chance of applying for it if
they're doing a project like that because there is money out there for that. >> This is something definitely that we want to discuss further with >> Yeah. This committee is always happy to work with other committees. They really are. I mean, like for the the micromobility study really came out of an idea from working with Chris cuz he's
on um a transportation management agency, but really from hearing about the community energy plan, which was like so really we're kind of backing into everything and you're you're like seeing everything. So that's good. It's really good. Yeah. I love it.
>> So that's all right with you if we put it on for next agenda. Okay. and then we can then coordinate with you and then maybe we might even have to have like a like kind of like an ad hoc committee that is of both so that we can like get it going. But yeah, I think if we start somewhere then that's great.
>> Yeah. >> Do you have a like do we do you guys choose from uh a set of trees or species that you want to plant depending on? Um yes. Uh we just last year 2024 I think
um Hamilton Street was planted. So that was a contract through us. Okay. >> Um and so we chose trees that are suitable for sidewalks um for that project. Um in addition on the website we have a list of trees that
we recommend to the township residents. Um, so those are trees that do well in this area. Um, >> native trees. >> Native trees. >> What do you mean native? >> Native creative. Yeah, >> they're not all native because nurseries
sell non-native things also. Um, so we definitely took off anything that could be invasive. That could be a problem. Um, and we have the native trees labeled so when you look at the list, you can see which ones are native.
That list has been really helpful. We use it for the environmental commission. We do site plan review. We refer like any of the trees that have to be planted as replacement trees. We always refer to that list. So that's been a big help. >> Plan to plan to come up with a list of
shrubs. That's my next baby. >> Sure. Shrubs are equally important. >> Was anything else that you had wanted to bring up? This is a big one. >> Okay, great. Yeah, thanks for thanks for commenting. >> Thank you. I think that's a great idea. >> Collaborating.
>> Yeah, let's stick around and see if >> maybe not the whole time. >> Great. Um, we have a motion to close public comment. Second. All in favor? All right. Um, all right. Next item is our site plan
review. >> No site plan review. We're still in the process of reviewing at the uh at the Environmental Commission. The last things we reviewed were um sorry, let me just get this up here again. Uh the last things we reviewed at this at the um
environmental commission which just met on Monday is really again just like you know office development um a request for reconsideration from a project that was denied. So nothing that is relation to here. Uh, moving on to new business,
we have the environmental achievement award for Franklin Townships Community Energy. So, I I think I emailed everyone about this, but ANJ, so the association of New Jersey environmental commissions is giving Franklin Township an award for
environmental achievement for our community energy plan and our micromobility study together. Um, which is great. So the award is being presented on Friday. This Friday at their annual environmental congress and Councilman Karazzi is going to accept the award on behalf of the trails advisory committee and the chair of the
environmental commission will be with him to also kind of accept it on behalf of the environmental commission. So that's really good because it basically shows that our work is being recognized for environmental achievement, you know, for basically doing something that's not like strictly always viewed as
environmental like a micromobility study, which is great. Um, the other really good thing I found out after the fact is that Ted Chase from our open space committee and formal councilman, he's also getting the basically their lifetime achievement award there. So,
it's going to be a lot of awards for Franklin, which is great. So, >> good. >> Yes. >> So, so yeah. So, Councilman Parazzi is going to accept it on our behalf and then you can talk about, you know, our work and everything which will be great. >> Yeah. And I just want to note that my
recollection that is correct like you know when the microility study came up it was you know partially Chris had kind of educated us on some pieces when we were talking about ebikes and things like that that we might want on our paths and and Tara we had had the
>> sustainable Jersey grant for um the work we were doing at Aan Williams Park you know the green infrastructure ideally long-term plan is putting uh a path for the wooded section of that trail there um And there was part of the grant was
money to have somebody do uh a planning piece that you were able to do on your own. >> Oh, yes. Yes. Part of the money, so the money, the $10,000 was to write the community to hire consultant to do the energy plan. And then I was like, well,
I can do this because I'm a planner, so I should just do it. And and then we used the money for the microobility study, which I couldn't do. >> I just want to acknowledge Tara for that. like it was Terra's willingness to kind of take on that that word that then had this extra pot of money that we were
able to use to have the experts come in and do the micro mobility study that's giving us this information. So, thank you. >> Thank you. Yes, thank you. Thank you. Yeah, that was really a team effort. That really came out of like a the birth that was like a
ever that's what like when Mary comes to this meeting that's why it makes me so excited cuz it's like you are reading all of the documents and like as a planner sometimes I'm like I don't think many people read all the documents. So So yeah, it's really all coming together. I love it. I think it's great.
So So we will share pictures and whatnot and think it'll be really good. >> Yeah. Nice. Okay. Um and uh next item is updates on Katapa Park. Do >> you want to kind of discuss the what happened at open space and I'll pull up
all the plans I guess? >> Uh yes jump in I might be missing. Um so so um time has passed since we initially had gotten the quotes for the different phases of Kulpa Park. Right. So there
was a lot of roadblocks in the way. So things had gotten you know we had gotten quotes for the different uh different um possibilities for that park. Now because of the delays the cost has increased um and so the um open space committee
was now looking at the current costs and we had a presentation on some new options for us that included these updated costs. Um and and It's basically and one of the things
that kept coming up in the conversation is the permits, right? So there's like the permits. So as we consider the different options, we also want to consider the fact that let's say if we decided, you know what, we're we're not going to do uh we're going to do X but
not Y and Z. We can't necessarily do Y and Z later easily because we've lost the permitting. Am I saying that correctly? Correct. Yes. Um, so it was just kind of like, okay, so if we're saying no, saying maybe later is not as easy as it as it might appear to be
because the process of the permitting at that took so long for us to get at this point that might happen again or even the cost of the permitting. So open space was really trying to look at these different options and take into account
what what they are. >> Right. Correct. Yeah. So there's four options now. Um like Vanessa said with the the permitting is really a sticking point. So in options I want to say two and four we lose the permitting which means that it's going to be a cheaper
option right now. But right now our permitting is good. I believe they said through next year, right? So if we can get these built under the existing permit, it's going to save us a lot of time. For example, getting the permit approved at D took almost four years.
Um, also it cost so much money because we had to do uh threatened and endangered species studies, surveys, soil sampling, um, all types of engineering work, wetlands. So, it's it's a lot. So, there's four options. Now, this is the general layout up here
of the park. Um, this is like so the Yeah, if you want to go, this is like the full boat. So, option one, full boat. Okay. And then we'll go through the options and show you kind of what the difference. And this is so if you um so this is South Little Bush Road over
here and this is Old Fleet. Um and this is where the cricket the cricket fields would go. Um currently this is just it was open field where you know things have grown up but it's pretty much there's not trees. >> Um there's not intentional trees in in
this space. Um and so then you have this is the current that's what where the driveway is that goes to old lead. Um it's coming down um and kind of continuing down through this area. Now this has everything in it. >> This is everything. This is if we do
everything. Yeah. >> Um so this has we have parking space. Um we have where's the children's playground? Uh in here. >> Oh, so okay. Okay. In this off. >> Yeah. This This is parking. >> That's parking.
>> Parking. Yep. >> Parking and bathrooms. Parking and bathrooms. >> Um is that the gardens? >> Community garden. >> Community garden. Uh basketball, tennis, and pickle ball. >> Yes. Eight pickle ball courts, which just so you know from our recreation
needs assessment, eight is like apparently not even going to like make a dent in what we need for pickle ball, but it's a good start. So, and I don't have the numbers memorized. >> I have the numbers if you want to move on to the next part. >> The one thing I wanted to point Oh, you want to point out the trail part before
we go to the numbers or >> Okay, I said the number the cost of the cost of this whole plan to have everything. >> Uh, option one cost $9.5 million. >> And and originally it was >> you thought it was going to be I want to say six something.
>> Yeah. So, it went way up. Way up. >> Yep. Um any >> particular or a specific um like you know point of this like you know where did it go up or did it go up overall the whole >> my understanding is it went up overall
because of the cost of materials while we were waiting on these permits to to come in. It took four years and four years as you know a lot happened the cost of materials went like skyhigh basically. So >> yeah and but we're going to show the four options and we'll tell you the cost of each option. Yeah. So this is the 9
million. 9 million. This is 9 million. This also this also includes one big cost just so you know is pvious pavement. So pvious pavement is proposed. That's a mouthful. Pvious pavement is proposed for all the
parking areas as well as the driveway. So pvious pavement's a lot more expensive, but it's something as a township we try to do for storm water management. So you know try to do that. So, and the as far as like the trail is concerned, there's a trail like around
this area, right? They did not this does not go into where the trail would go into the existing trail. Like it doesn't like go into um >> our current uh brown trail at the double park. So, that's one of the things. So,
it it would kind of kind of shoot off at one point and then come back. I wasn't able to get my bearings on this just yet as far as like where is the treehouse, you know, and that piece, where is the golf course. So, um, this does not we would still be involved in figuring out
where how is this connecting to the current brown trail, but we know that, you know, um, even the end of the road right here, right? Like this, you know, t this had been the brown trail kind of going and then straight and over. Um,
>> correct. Yeah. this one. One thing that's nice too just to point out is that well all of them I think are going to have this. You know where when you're on the trail I think it's the brown trail and you a lot of people accidentally go to the farmer's house. Is that the brown trail? That's the brown trail.
>> Yes. So you know right now there's just a a gate there and it says like do not trespass. People still go straight through that. There's going to be an actual like 6ft tall automated gate with like a keypad on it that the TPW can access and the farmer can access. So that's going to stop that that
interference with that property because that has been a big problem. So just so you know, >> farmer is still on property. >> I'm sorry. >> Farmer is still on property. >> Yeah. He originally actually owned all the property and he sold this part for us. Yes. >> His wife is actually the
>> Yeah. So this part they sold to the township and he they still have their home there on the other part that they did not sell to the township. >> Yeah. So the it looks so the driveway is going where that the brown trail is right now.
>> Well the the brown trail was just is just to the side of the driveway currently. >> Yeah, but it curves >> right where it shoots over and then goes down. >> Right. >> That's not So basically the brown trail would now start in the parking lot
someplace and then go south. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> I mean, that's part's fine, but but there's nothing about the Brown Trail >> improvements in this plan. >> Correct. Right. No, no. Now, that is something that we would be involved in moving further down the road. This is really just to show you like, hey,
here's the updated plans. Open space advisory is going to make a decision next month on what their recommendation to council is. Now, council will have the final say, obviously, but I figured it would be good for trails to have some input, you know, so we could look at the options. what you're looking at like we
said is this is this is everything and then we can go through and kind of whittle through. >> Yeah. And Yeah. So, but right now Patrick's I think there'll be like a walking path. There's this idea of a walking path that we would want to then continue into our trail.
>> Continue somewhere from that children's playground there. >> Yeah. And that path is going to be ADA compliant. So, that'll be a handicap accessible material that's on the walking path. Yeah. Okay. >> Yep.
Um yes. So I have all I have now that's what our Darren is our engineer. So the these plans are so huge that like to load them up on the computer he really has to use CAD for the other ones which I am not proficient in CAD. So we're going to we looked at the full plan. We
can go through images of >> No. Because he like has them as a live like image with different layers in them and like we can't get like they're not they're not stagant. He's going to present those at the next meeting again like he did last time he'll be there but we can go through and
at least talk about so the first one like we said 9.5 million everything we talked about right >> where did you get that estimate >> this is we just got at the last open space meeting so I think it's only maybe a month or two >> old where are the restrooms in that first
one >> uh let me close this so we don't have all this stuff up uh where's the file Oh, hang on. Got to find it. Gosh, there is so much stuff up here. Okay, give me one second.
Oh. Huh? Where the heck did it go? All right. Sorry, guys. Bear with me. Here it is. >> But the restrooms under the parking lot. >> Yes. >> So, you have restrooms over here >> and you have restrooms over somewhere over here. >> Yes. in that around in that parking
area. There will be I think in between like where the kids like where that U-shaped thing is in between there. Um there will be restrooms. That is something that the township also that increased the price too as well because to have full service restrooms there
which you really need for a park of this like type. Um there's a lot of you know we need to like basically pump water out there from the connection line. there needs to be a I believe a holding tank somewhere. So that increased it. On top of it, the wetland delineation
got moved a little north, meaning that some like the basketball courts for example, we had to have our engineering company move them down slightly so that they were out of the wetlands buffer. So just some minor changes there. So option one, like we said, everything 9.5
million. Option two is basically uh we keep the cricket fields, we keep the pavilion and the picnic tables and the restroom or near the cricket field, the community garden, the parking lot. Uh we have stream culvert. So basically it's
the cricut field, the bathrooms and we that would include keeping the pvious the pvious pavement. It would be getting rid of everything else. So option two is 5.7 million. You lose the basketball courts, the playgrounds, um the fence, the venes, the basketball
courts, the boxing ball courts, the cornhole, the tennis, the pickle ball, the fitness area. You basically lose everything except for um except basically I'm going to tell you here. So basically everything from here
over. So this parking is the map. >> Oh, they're left here. Okay. All right. So there you go. this super well, but this is option two. >> This is option two. So, yeah, like >> I'm using as a pointer. >> What I'm showing here on the screen and shows on the map. It's everything from
that. This is the which is on that screen up there next to the parking. It's everything basically from here out except also the community garden, but you lose everything else. So, no basketball, no botchi ball, no pickle ball, no tennis. Basically, all the active recommendation. It drops it down
to 5.7 million. two giant parking lots in the in the woods. >> Right. Right. Then we got option three, which is even cheaper. >> Oh, okay. The garden's still there. >> Still crossing the culbert. >> Yes. >> Option three keeps in the cricket field,
the community garden, the parking lot, and the restroom, and it takes out the po pious pavement. Now, this gives you an example of how much the green infrastructure items are. Um that drops it down to 3.9 million. So, it's basically the same plan as option two
except we now lose the pvious pavement and we're down to 3.9 million. So, see if >> this just to reiterate, I want to make sure I understood you correctly. Options three and options four basically require repermitting. >> Yes.
>> You know, knowing the proficient the massive proficiency of the state would likely be another four years. >> Oh, yeah. And a lot more money. We'd have to re they wouldn't accept like our existing technical studies or engineering studies. We'd have to redo them all. Then we have option four, which is 4.7
million. So this is the third. This is the uh the first option was 9.5. The second option was 5 something. Yeah. Then you got this one, which is the third. And the last one we looked at is the cheapest. This one includes the Cricut fields, the pavilion, the Cricut
bathrooms, um the path, and it includes the storm water management, which we, you know, we took out. It also would allow for three large playground structures, swings, benches, the playground area, the
playground pavilion, and that second park. And that Nope, just the first. Is this option four? >> Yes, >> this is option four. Yeah. So, no other parking lot. >> Uh doesn't include a second parking lot. vehicle parking lot for playground. So, a small parking area of just 34 38 spots.
Um, and this is what you're left looking at. So, basically, again, come in. Here's the parking area and like a little playground moved up here instead of where it is down there. It involves a smaller playground, smaller parking area. You get to keep the um the deer
fence. You get to keep What is this? That looks like a Oh, community garden. the cricket field and a bathroom over here by the cricket field. >> But because you're not crossing that cold, >> there's no likelihood of ever getting into the south end of that parking
>> is basically gone. He's right. So the we're basically giving up the crossing of the stream. So our permit right now we're allowed to do that under our permit. If we get rid of that, he's right. The chance of re getting that permit is is going to be very difficult.
And this one is 4.7, >> right? And >> this is the imper impervious. >> This includes No, this uh uh this this Yeah, this gets rid of the pvious pavement as well. >> It also says an updated storm water management design will be required, which means >> right
these are these aren't really options. >> I don't think so personally. To me, four is completely out and I and to me honestly I think three is out. >> These are not options. This is I mean this is kind of ridiculous, right? Three and four is basically like hey if you ridiculous if the budget's the priority.
>> Yeah, but we don't know we don't I mean we don't have the information to make that decision. Right. I mean this is coming from is it I don't know where the money is coming from. I don't know what the budget for 6 million >> where does that what does that mean? >> So it was set aside >> the annual revenue of the open space
fund. There's a there's like a million questions that make us completely unqualified to answer this question. >> The money is set aside for park options. There was 6 million set aside originally because we had to rego out to bid. Um the full boat option one we had budgeted
6 million and that came in close with our original bid. Now the new bed the new bid for what we have asked for is now 9.5 million. So we have to look at the alternatives to either get it below the 6 million of what's budgeted or make the recommendation that we think you
know you should still go with option one and pay the extra 3.5 million. We don't know what the implication of that three. We don't know like I don't there's open space revenue that comes out of tax every year. I don't know what that money is. I don't know what the implications of this decision is. I mean >> it's it's sort of I mean this is what I
mean. This is actually a little annoying to look at, right? Because there's three there's four options. Two of them are ridiculous. Like why would you do that, right? What? That's like absurd, right? Knowing how the state works and permitting works, it's just it's ridiculous to pick option three and four. Option two is building two
gigantic parking lots in the middle of the woods for with no amenities, you know, around them. Then basically a, you know, cricket which could be played on on like an open field, right? You know, so that's a stupid idea. Number two, >> yeah, I mean, and so there's really only option I'm a I just wanted to finish my
point. So the only logical option here is option one, right? There is no there is no given the information that we have available to us, the only logical option is option one. But I don't understand, right? I don't know where the money comes from. I don't know how much revenue the open space fund generates in a year. I don't know what the implications of,
>> you know, if it's going to raise everybody in the town's taxes by 10%. Well, then no. Then we're not going to do it, right? >> So the open space really fun impact us that much then well you'd be an idiot to do anything except option one. >> So the open space trust fund generates
approximately 5 to5 million a year based on the existing taxes. There is money set aside 6 million in there for this money. How much of it is already dedicated to you know paying down debt you know that was that's done from open
space and you know it's a complicated question right >> it's a complicated question but it's really you know um making a recommendation based on what do you think is the best option now I will say this to you is that >> is the only one with the
>> so that's your opinion and that's great but when you're we I was at the open space advisory committee so was and so was Vanessa and there were people that thought that option too was the best option because or I'm sorry option three was the best because it was the cheapest and that's that's option three which
was the documentary about right is a documentary about the lion or the gazelle like what's the documentary about like so if if if if the documentary is about parks and recreation >> then there's no there's no choice right but if we're considering the tree canopy >> and we're like oh gosh what about the
tree is the tree canopy the priority then we're going to leave everything the way it is and we're going to put crooked fields cuz that's not going to affect the tree canopy. >> So, I feel like there's there's different priorities. >> Well, recreation, too. So, recreation is looking at the plans tomorrow night, I think it is, when they meet. And I get
they're going to probably say option one. Absolutely. Because without the basketball courts, what's the point? Without the botching ball, what's the point? But it's right. It's like So, the the more feedback I think I'm correct saying, right, that council guess you probably appreciate, I would guess. Right. Is there any way that we can get
some funds from the county that open space? >> So, the county open space has already given money to this project um in the past. We do have funds already from them through their open space grant program, but this park has been planned for quite a while. We do have the money earmarked
for it and we do have the money in the open space trust. It does require putting an extra $3.5 million out of the open space trust fund. Now granted, open space trust fund money can only be used for acquiring open space land and improving parks and developing parks and open space. So that's what the money is
there for. >> Um but yeah, it's a lot to you know and I think council likes to have a lot of feedback. Now again like Mary is on the shade tree commission. They might think that option two is the best. I don't know this to be true. I'm just saying Mary's like don't throw me in there. She
may be like I love option two. I think it's amazing. But I don't know, you know. So yeah, but I but I think that just kind of like to kind of give everyone a chance to kind of speak about what your thoughts are. Um I al I just want to share I know something that came up at the open space was um uh what you
had pointed out before is the one is I two parking lots with nothing going on. There was a concern about safety, security, vandalism like you know so kind of that option that definitely came up in in our in our conversation. um the concern about that. I know it was kind
of kind of brought down to to two options. Um and uh and I I know that um you know definitely the the first option with everything you know seems like a great option and really the the money is
the is the is the one obstacle. Um and the other which one was the second? >> Uh so the one that allowed us to keep the permitting. So that's option two. So, it was between options one and let me make sure I'm right here. Um, options one and two. That's what it
really was between three and four. The open space committee didn't really want only because they don't want to give up that permitting. That's the only reason. But there were people on the committee, I don't know exactly who that would have liked to go for the cheapest option. And I think though they started when Darren,
our engineer, explained like the implications of losing that permitting. I think >> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, if you're going to build a park, then >> you know, you may not want the actual park, which in that case, option three is brilliant, >> right? >> Because nothing will ever happen. The
council makes the ultimate decision. >> The council makes the ultimate decision >> based on input from all the community, too. >> Yeah, that's right. Yeah. >> Yeah. They want the input. They want the input to make their cuz they're going to have to make a decision cuz the needs
are in and they're only good for so long. So I think it's 60 days. So we discussed this at last month's meeting. >> Now you don't have to make the same recommendation that open space makes that recreation makes and council is going to make their decisions based on what the council comes up with. But the
councilman's right it also involves public comment. So the public will speak on it as well. >> So what do you guys question? Yeah. So who decided on this set of activities for the design? >> So this was originally um this
originally came out based on recreation did a needs assessment. Now this is done four years ago but it's still pretty relatively accurate. They did a whole needs assessment study in terms of what recreation >> Yes. It was precoid. Yeah. >> Yeah. I was >> Yeah, that's more than four years ago.
>> Yes. eight years ago. >> I remember what happened actually like in our township the there have been a pretty uh high increase in the South Asian population in our township and they love cricket
>> right >> they really do how I think >> they the residents felt that that's something that we don't have >> and that's kind of start a discussion because some of the people they were doing that in houses of worship and and you know any place they can
I think this really serves that purpose, right? >> And that's where this whole thing started. >> Have been part of this discussion since >> ever since in this town regretted an investment in recreation like you know people fought tooth and nail against Middle Bush Park
and it is you know an absolute gem and massively used. There's constant activity at Middle Bush Park, right? So, I mean, we we never regret this kind of investment, but I get it. Sometimes it doesn't happen because it doesn't happen. >> The cricket and the pickle ball in particular were identified as needs
through the township that are just lacking completely. In any any township you go to right now will say cricket and pickle ball. That's what we need. >> We could triple it and it still would be used constantly. >> A park like this though, it's like you really do need a full service bathroom. You really do. So you really can't like have a park like this and just have like
portaotties cuz that's like not going to work for the amount of people that will be there. Uh the community garden that's an important one that again the community said we really kind of need more of this. So that's where it came out of. Recreation has been very involved in this the open space advisory for a long time. Unfortunately we're
like in a holding pattern for all this time. So >> yeah I mean it's really the it's I mean it's the permits right? That's where the money the money is in the the I mean I'm making I don't know this. I'm going to make an educated guess that out of the things on this list, the
money is in the parking lots, getting the utilities there, you know, the the crossing the the the creek and you know, it's not the community gardens that's $3.5 million, right? >> It's it's the green infrastructure. It's the crossing of the >> stream.
It's all that the cricket fields, the basketball courts. I mean, these are things that are not like I mean, they're expensive obviously, but they're not like things that we're not used to. >> Maybe in the original planning if if four years ago they had said just make a gravel lot instead of, you know, the impervious pavement that would be, you know, be cheaper, but whatever that die
is cast. >> Yeah. >> So, it's, you know, it's that decision was made back then. You got to either, >> you know, I've already spoken I've already said I think it's pretty clear what I think. >> Yeah. >> Any other questions and thoughts? >> Yeah. The community garden, I guess.
>> Well, the community garden's in all of them. >> It looks like the community garden all is gone in this one. >> No. >> Oh, in option four. >> In option four, it's >> every other option it's in. But not
option four, it's out because of where it's located. Option three, two, and one, it's in. Yeah, option four is just >> Yeah, I think option four just basically cricket and parking. >> I was thinking about the second because
cricket is pretty aggressive game. They play very >> 100% of course. >> So we have a trails also people while the game is going on there might be people or children on a on a trail would it be safe for them at that time? I don't know what are the safety measure measures. >> I think so because it's far enough away
from where the trail can be. Yeah, the trail is going to be kind of on the opposite side of where the cricket is. Um, so there shouldn't be any interference. The trail is closer to where um like basketball and botchi ball. So the trail say is this here.
>> Yeah, those fields are kind of set apart. >> That's the cricket field. So I mean it's like a completely across. >> You're very >> That's the middle bush road right on the right side. That is Middlebush up here. South Middle Bush. Yes, that's South Middlebush Road. Yeah. Right. So the um entrance is right on the middle bush
road right from middle park. >> No, it's off of old. >> It's off of Le where this big driveway is. >> So right from middle bush you make a right and that's where there is an entrance. >> Yeah. >> And that's where this >> Oh, you're saying over here people are going to be walking. >> Yeah. And trail actually start there.
It's right >> there. The trail's not there. >> No, the the right now that's the corner the trail starts. So currently like yeah like this like that corner is where the trail head is and you walk this way and
that way that's the trail. >> So but based on this it might be we might be forced to start the trail over here. >> Yeah. So that's a good idea if we go here instead of there is touching the uh >> I mean honestly it's going to start where the parking is. >> Yeah.
>> People will gravitate towards where the parking is right there. >> There is a fence around it. Yeah, I think it'll be okay because there is a fence around it and >> um there is and I don't think that I should talk cuz I don't know cricket and in any case I mean it's not like they're
going to change the plan right this is the plan this has been the plan for >> yeah the the cricket fields are in needs between >> someone on the open space advisory committee brought up and I was surprised at this but this just shows how other people think and it's interesting um
that the pickle ball sound which like you know I know there is a sound. It's like they wanted me on during the meeting, which I did, to measure how far was the closest house from the pickle ball to make sure the sound wouldn't be annoying to people. And we ended up seeing I think it was like 1,700 ft away. So, it wasn't
>> But yeah, it's just did different people think different things. >> We should definitely not have amenities for 70,000 people because one person might hear, >> right? I don't even know what it is. I don't know. Just the planning included the the expectation of speaking. >> I'm sorry. I'm speaking when I should I should be using my inner voice and not
my I've had it with >> paths within the park in this design would be ADA accessible. >> The path within the park. So the one that down here that's going around this is going to be ADA compliant. This path here. Absolutely. Yeah. So it'll be that
um either that uh rubbery material that is considered ADA compliant like the more hard rubbery or the um crushed red stone or something like that. But yes, now only within though the park. That's what we have planned right now. One last thing I Oh, I'm sorry. Pash,
>> will that loop also include the community garden there or that's outside? >> Uh, the loop community garden is >> Oh, okay. That's Cash. >> Oh, okay. >> Oh, no. That's the Is that the community garden? The community garden is the
other dark spot. >> Rectangular one. >> I think it might be. Yeah. >> Okay. >> Yeah, that might be the playground. The uh >> Let me look and see. Proposed. Uh, I want to see what this I thought this was the >> This is a community garden.
>> Oh, okay. >> Oh, there. >> Oh, >> okay. Okay. >> And this other thing over here is [Applause] [Music] a Botchi ball. This is Botchi Ball. >> Oh, nice.
>> Yeah, this is Botchi Ball. And this is the community garden is up here. this one here right by the which actually is nice right by the parking lot you know >> oh one last thing I wanted to bring up just the plots the little rectangles in the garden >> yeah just oh and the community garden
also so we did the garden at name park I did the measurements on that heightwise and widthwise in the aisles to make sure that that's ADA compliant as well the community garden so we use those same measurements so the community garden will also be considered ADA compliant in terms of the grading and the aisle width
and the height The one other thing I want to bring up, this is important with the pvious pavement. I have to say this. So the pvious pavement is important in terms of storm water management especially in this area required to do a specific amount of storm water management plus it's just a good
practice if what option was it? Okay, if we have to go back and do like phase two of the park. So, say you choose options three or four where it's like we're just doing the northeast part of the park and then we want to go back later and the pvious
pavement is in the large trucks driving over the pvious pavement will actually make us have to relay the pvious pavement afterward. So, again, another cost down the road because it's not designed to handle the back and forth of the large trucks.
So, >> so one one truck >> Yeah. I mean, you don't want to have to do that twice. That's I mean, and that's a real cuz it's the expense. I mean, the under drain and the functional green infrastructure part underneath will be okay, but the pvious pavement is
expensive. It's very expensive. >> Yeah. I'm just wondering why in such a park we need impervious pvious pavement. So pvious pavement we're require the state law the New Jersey D storm water management rules changed a few years ago
and they actually require green infrastructure approach to be your first approach to storm water and then if you can't meet your requirements there then you can fall back on traditional infrastructure. So pvious pavement is considered green infrastructure because the water filters through and it goes to
an under drain where it's like slowly released or it's captured. So it's actually part of our storm we're measuring. >> No, I understand that but but usually what they do they look at the whole area and they will say okay 20% 30%
>> impervious is okay. Are we exceeding that because we have the parking lot and so forth and that's where we have to have the the perous part >> most likely because of the amount we're disturbing more than a quarter of an acre and so beyond that then it's based on how much like um impervious cover are
you putting on the DP considers gravel or that rubber material they consider that impervious even though it's not like pavement. Oh wow. >> Yeah. Gravel cuz it's really not pvious. It's not letting water filter through. So, under the storm water management rules, that's why. Now, we have other
tanks in here. We have um a bio retention basin over here. Um I believe there's like a retaining some type of under drain here somewhere. But, you know, we have to still meet this. So, just to kind of quickly summarize, so
option one is everything. It's it's from soup to nuts everything. Option two is like the bones of it. >> Yep. 9.5. Option one. 5.7. Option two. Yep. >> Think of it as two giant parking lots in the wood. >> Hello. How are you?
>> You're you're welcome. Yeah. >> Come on in. Come on in. >> We're looking at Kappa Park right now. >> Um the proposals for Kataba Park. So I'm I'm in a sense agnostic about from a trails perspective between one and two
in the sense that if there's a there's a parking lot there. So that will help encourage people to take the brown trail which still needs a bridge and get fixed so you can use the whole thing with option one being better because if there's the if there's the walking trail
in the park that would encourage more people to come just for that and then maybe continue exploring. Yeah, >> but um I you know I would have an opinion on another another way if it wasn't just the trails. But I think either one where you're getting some
infrastructure for parking >> Mhm. >> where that brown trail is across the covert. >> Yeah. >> Across the stream is a good deal. >> Yeah. Okay. And then the the like we said before. So options uh so options
three and four are staying on the >> closed side of culvert. They're not doing that. Um taking advantage of the permits that we have now. Um and it's really kind of just keeping those cricket fields. It's keeping the cricket fields. Um and so for option >> parking lot
>> so option three we have a parking lot. We have the cricket fields and we have the garden. >> Mhm. Um and then option four, it's the Cricut Fields, um >> the playground, >> modified parking lot, playground,
>> and gardens, >> but again, no, no permitting. >> So, no per so that's kind of saying, you know what, we're going to keep it on this side. We don't care about the cover. We don't care about the other side. >> I think we three to four are out. It's just whether you're really saying one
>> from a trail's perspective or one or two are acceptable. >> Yeah. Well, I mean >> I mean I think from a trails perspective one and three and four are also I mean like essentially it would just be keeping the brown trail more of the brown trail that's currently there. Yeah, >> but I I I think I think the bigger
parking lot on the south across the other side >> opens the possibility down the road of having more people come and >> use that for we've been >> possibility but I mean so I'm I mean that's my adapted trail right you know and I would I from getgo web I would
have loved to just kept the trail um but I I see the value of these other components but um yeah >> I I have a question we've been saying all along that options three and four require ire the permitting process to begin >> if we ever wanted to continue into the development on the other side. They
require updated >> permitting. It says an updated storm water management design will be required which I'm I was interpreting as there's going to be permitting required. >> That's what it options three and four require updated permitting. We can't use our existing permit right now. >> Exactly. So
>> the plan for the plan as it is or if we were to or in the future it would require >> the plan as it is would not require permitting in the future. So if we want everything else we require like to go to phase two we would require updated permitting
>> but you can still get the the the what >> the main permitting issue is crossing the stream. >> Correct. Anything across the stream. Yes. You would get what you see. I actually interpreted three and four as like nothing is going to happen cuz we're going to go back to the beginning of a four-year permitting process.
>> No, no, no. Three and four, what you see is what you're going to get. But then to get the rest of the park across the stream will require we can't use our existing permit. Yeah. >> I can't think of >> unless I understand. >> Is there anything that you were wondering or thinking?
>> She I know she mentioned the community garden. So for you Jiggnasha, the one where our community garden comes out is option four. So there's no community garden in there at all. >> The community garden would be a big draw along with the with the added advantage
of the trail which is two big big things I can come out from getting more people into that area. Yeah, >> I think >> Jim >> I was going to say u there's pickle ball courts at Castleton
>> and I have someone that lives there so I go there and yeah you can hear it but I I don't I think you kind of get used to it or or you just kind of muffle it so >> it doesn't seem to be an issue. >> Oh good. Well, I would say for the open space
meeting, which is on the 21st, October 21st, that's when the engineer is coming back to kind of like go over, you know, what Oh, yep. >> I came here for a planning board meeting, so I didn't realize you guys were meeting here.
>> I just jumped in here, but I didn't know. But see, I'm a parks guy. Middlebish Park. Yeah, >> I was over there in the weeds trying to get Middle Bush Park together and we
spent a lot of money on that park and you couldn't build anything else after we finished because the space >> because the thinking wasn't there and I think some of the residents would have been up and arms you spent this money but the park was built
>> right >> and all of a sudden there's a good park over here. >> Yes. >> I'm glad we spent the money, >> right? >> That's what Robert was just saying. >> Never regret infrastructure ever. >> Come back and I see that price tag of
$9.5 million. And I go, "So what? It's going to cost you more down the road." >> Mhm. >> And And you guys won't be here, >> right? >> Somebody else will be sitting in your chair and they're going to say, "I'm not
going to spend that $5 million." >> Right? that part you stuck. >> Right. Right. >> You're not going to get it together. So, and I again I was looking for a plan board. Yeah. Yeah. >> This is more interesting.
>> That $9.5 million is good money spent right now >> because when we did Middle Bush Park, those kids were over there playing before the park was done. Yeah. Yes. >> There was a problem with that skate
park. Bill Gripple at the time tried to get $250,000 to build a skate park. >> He couldn't get it. And then he muscled it through and they got a skate park and there was nothing there. Just a skate park and the kids loved it.
>> So after that we had to board it up because of insurance because nobody wanted to to fix the puppy. >> That's how that happened. So when we came in, okay, let's move this skate park over here and because our insurance carrier said, "Hey, I want to come in.
I'm going to inspect this little puppy after you finish." Which was, you know, that's what they had to do. It was clean ceiling. >> Mhm. >> They looked at the top lot. Yes. You got the right uh rubber or whatever there. The parking was an issue. I
I we started playing football and parking was an issue. Uh but now we solved that issue, >> right? Yeah. >> And the one thing I didn't realize >> behind the back parking area, there's actually a little trail. >> Yes, there is. >> That goes back there.
>> That's one of our trails. >> I didn't realize that until this year. >> It's a natural play back there. Yeah. actually a little kid. They were running back there. Paris actually they going to the woods. >> I walk back there and go.
>> There's a zip line back there. >> Yeah. >> I went back through there and there it was. >> That's great. >> So, I'm telling you >> and I'm walking out here. Got the wife outside. Uh you're supposed to be dropping me off. Okay. I just ran out
the library. Uh-huh. >> Uh, if you don't build it now, >> you won't build it later ever. >> Yeah, >> I agree with you. That's what I thought out of the open space trust fund
is not going to kill you. >> We get money every year. >> Yeah. Some people will say, "No, you can't spend it." And I'm going to say build a damn thing. >> Right. Yeah.
>> Because it'll work for you. I don't even see what you got down the wrist. >> Oh yeah. It's a ton. It's basketball. >> I don't need to see down the rest. >> Yeah. >> No, I agree with you 100%. I really I personally do. Yeah.
>> Yeah. What's that baseball thing? >> You build guarantee if you And this has been what 10 years in the making. long time. >> Sooner or later, you're going to have to pull the trigger and you guys are going to be in the in the middle pulling the
trigger and then it's going to get to a land use committee or or public discussion and everyone's either going to be for it or against it. >> You're going to have to defend it. >> Yeah. >> Well, the Kaji here is going to have to
>> He will. Yeah, he will. >> On the hot seat. Anything that we can do to help the community to enjoy the life in Franken Township, we got to fight for it. >> That's the bottom line. >> Thank you. No, we appreciate it. >> Wait, wait a minute. We buy a t-shirt
for that. >> Not for you. Not for you. when this comes up with I came in and said build it >> because I came in. Now here's the here's the thing you guys going to love. It's called I'm pulling rank.
I'm a councilman. I want a t-shirt. >> If you were asking just one short >> extra extra on the end here or long sleeve or short sleeve short sleeve up
here advisory committee, they spend so much time doing volunteer work. They run any trail you see, any trail walk you see in Franklin Township, it's them on their own time leading people. So, we got those shirts so that when they do, people recognize like who the leader is.
So, yeah. So, now you have to come out of our hikes. There you go. >> Yeah. At the next council meeting, I wear the trail shirt. >> People ask me what's with the what's with the shirt. I'm going to explain it to them. Now, >> somebody up here is going to have to
write that little blur. I'll write it for you. I'll write it for you. >> Okay. Okay. That's just the way it is. >> All right. >> Thank you so much. >> I I never saw that. I'm on the land use committee and I never saw all of this.
>> Yeah. >> But I'm going to tell you, if you build it, you'll stand out there and when it's uh when they cut the ribbon, you guys will be standing up there and go, "That's right." Yeah,
>> have fun. >> I hear you. >> Little Bush P came uh Little Bush Park came about. >> You'll make yourself proud. >> I hear you. Thank you so much. >> All right. Thank you. Thanks for coming. >> The next time you see Mark Hilly, tell
him Carl came on the planning board and it wasn't him. >> Well, I'm sorry to bust the >> No, no. We're happy to have you. All right. Take care. He said everything I wanted to say just better. >> There you go.
>> All we have to do is we don't have I mean we I I recommend so that your voices are heard especially the open space advisory committee meeting is coming up. I would love to be able to say or Vanessa really is going to be the one to say we brought it up at trails and they recommend this. The people from
ad uh from um recreation their person's going to say something. Shade tree is going to say something. So, I think it would be good to say even if it's not if it's like we like option one or two or if you want to commit to one of those options, you know. >> So, when do you think that is going to be coming to to the castle?
>> I think probably at the beginning of November, end of October. I think right now it's like everyone's kind of collecting feedback and then it's going to come to you guys. >> So, what do we think >> on the 14th? I'm not going to say anything because we just got to wait to see what >> Yeah. Yeah. I would
need to say anything in the leader and change it. But on the 21st, open space will meet and they're going to make >> the problem will meet on the 28th. We can have a story. >> Correct. Absolutely. Yep. >> So, what are as a committee? What are we thinking? So, I'm here. I know we have
some one definitely one all the way. Um, you were saying one or two. >> One or two. >> One or two. Yeah, >> one or two. >> Definitely one or two. Three. Four. No. No. >> Okay. >> One for me. >> One or two. Um but I still have some
concerns in regards to tree cover. Yeah. >> And how that landscape will change because you know it's a lot of that work is having on the forested area >> on the other. So >> okay that yeah that's something that I haven't seen. So yeah how much of tree cover will be lost by
>> clearing that >> about one or two >> to answer your question. Mhm. >> I think they can it can be replanted also right once the park comes up >> the way she suggested like by the trail they want to plant it on a neman williams. So something like same project
can be done here also on a gadalpa. >> Do we have any idea what will be to come from >> it is we can't support too >> that I don't know I know there's going to be a lot of maintenance right now certain amount of we have to plant also
some specific amount of trees. Is there an ordinance? >> It's not like super old trees. I know Ted Chase was talking about there. It is a nice tree canopy there on the brown trail and the area where >> that second parking lot is going. That area there. Um
>> are they natives? I guess was really my question. >> Oh, I don't know. >> I don't know about that. >> The red cedars of the first successional >> kinds of trees that come in when they take over a field. That's what I heard. Oh, the red cedars
are not. We don't not that we don't care about them, but they're not. >> I don't know what's that. That's just what I heard. >> They grow that red seed because they grow so quickly. [Music] >> Vanessa, can you please find out if there's an estimate on the maintenance
cost because the open space is supposed to fund that, right? >> The maintenance cost of the park, >> right? So, after it's built, what will be the standard maintenance cost per year? because that money has to come >> cuz one of the things we're trying to do
is not to raise taxes. >> All right. So that that's a key we will make sure that they keep that and also if they have any large projects that down the road what will the implications >> okay I I think that I don't um I think I
know um transfer manager Warlocker like he had kind of spoken to some of these. >> Yeah. I mean they might say look it's going to be 10% of whatever the cost is just assumed they would have a few people >> that was already that was already budgeted like I know the the fact the maintenance part when it was originally
approved you know that was included I don't know if that has changed as significantly as the cost of the park has changed >> right and the other question that I have is how long is going to take to build this in other words it's 9.5 million they're talking about is it going to be
paid uh next year or it's going to be over 2 or 3 years because if it's next year that means that they have to have that money but if it's over 2 or 3 years the money is still coming in so they have kind of a plan that >> that's the those are the kind of like
financial details that >> yeah but inside the context of knowing the answers to those I actually give a recommendation but not knowing the finances and making the assumption that all of this money comes from the open space fund well you should use it then then to me there is no other logical
option except option one. But it all depends on whether really all the money comes from the open space fund, you know, all those all those financial I think my my understanding is that they have about 6 and 12 million. >> So I mean it's going to be 9 and a half. So if you got they got >> six half million annually, right? That's
>> they have between six and six and a half budgeted already for the park. >> What's the annual revenue? >> It's anywhere between five and five and a half. Yeah. >> Right. So if the annual revenue is five and a five and a half, I mean between what kind of vehicles are available to them, but between
>> remember this is not the only project. We have several other projects and we just that's what I mean. These are the things I'm not privy to. >> Yeah. Yeah. We we just buying an open space for almost like $800,000 >> but it's been but but if it's 6 million has been budgeted and is sitting somewhere for the past like four and a
half year five six this has been going on for 10 years, right? At some point the the answer is going to be the board is you know the council is reckless because it's already worth something. >> I think honestly for our committee purposes what I what I would recommend to any of the committees I work on. I'm
not saying you should act like you don't care about the budget but every committee is going to submit their recommendation based on what the priorities are. So I think from the trails advisory committee without cuz the council's going to make the decision on the budget. They're the ones that are going to do that. What from a trail like
a purely what's good for our purposes here at trails? What do you think the recommendation is? Because council is going to decide on the budget. >> I believe in order to answer that we need to provide them like you know as a blurb. How does it even pertain to the trails
committee? This whole thing is like you know this added parking lot or the access to it if we can I mean that that will be our justification for supporting this. >> Agree. I agree with you and Vanessa can report on that at the meeting. So basically be saying we like option one.
I'm just going to say this. We like option one because it it's going to connect our existing brown trail to this park. It's going to provide extra parking. it's going to kind of expand our base here, you know. >> I mean, and that's also true of option
two in the sense of the infrastructure. >> Correct. >> The difference with option one being is that because it has a in on-site walking trail that it might also encourage more people to then explore a larger trail. That's why option one is slightly from a
trails perspective slightly more preferred but option one or two will get you to that part and have that infrastructure there to allow more people to access that trail where do that >> yes I have yeah I'm a little biased like
I'm a little biased I mean I went to the council meeting speaking against park full transparency like back in that day I wanted to keep I wasn't on the trails but I wanted to keep it green I wanted to keep it you know the trees so from that from that what's best for trails. Best for trails is we leave as much of
the trail there and as much I had wanted I had proposed to expand the trail into that wooded area but was told no this park is coming we have to wait and see and then we could do the trail that way. So I see a lot of promise with that trail. However, for the greater good, I
concede like I can see that I I see the value in the park and I see that piece of it, but I from it's hard to answer for me from a trails perspective. From a trails perspective, I want I want three or four. So, you get a bigger parking lot and you leave more of the wooded
area for us to have a trail in. Right. >> So, like that's my personal I know that's not the committee. So, um but I think that's kind of hard to answer your question from a perspective. It is. >> But I think as as members of the trails committee who are thinking of the trails and the greater good, you know, um I
think it's easier to answer that question. >> That makes sense. >> Yeah. Two I mean, but two somewhat competing >> priorities where you have to compromise. >> Preserving more space for trails and providing more access to trails. >> So I think we have to remember
>> relatively small part of the trip. >> Well, I guess for three and four, they all give more parking, right? So they would all all the plans would allow for easier um parking to access the trails >> except three and four without the permitting. I mean that is going to be a nightmare. That is going to be an absolute nightmare.
>> Right. But if we would just stay the way it is access I meant um maybe um attractiveness or engagement one and two will bring more people into for other reasons and then that's why that's a
township development but also we have to remember the demographic of our township that that area has a lot of apartments high number of concentrated uh population our township And they really
need some sort of recreation for the kids to >> not walking middle bush south middle there. You're >> right about that southern part of town. >> I can see that we lose recreation trail. >> Right. Right. So that's way better.
>> We need to really keep that in mind too. >> That's a good point. So >> I think we should so we should >> So I guess what I'm hearing I'm hear everybody saying what people are having with one or two. Are you do you want do you want us to be more specific or not? >> No, I think one or two I think if
everyone is okay with one or two cuz really if it's going to come down to money, it's going to be two. If it's going to not come down to money, it's going to be one. >> So I think I think >> so if the money's there, if the money's there, we want one. >> And if the money's not there, we want two. >> But we definitely don't want three or four, I think, is what we're hearing,
which I think that's a good recommendation cuz you're basically saying 50% we don't even want to look at anymore. one or two like from you know will work. >> Yeah. >> Okay. And so you can report on this at the meeting and uh >> my feeling is that yeah because if it's
just the cricket fields on the on three and four then that's just going to get used by people who play cricket and that's it. Whereas if you have something on the other side of the stream, >> yeah, >> even if it's not everything at once, which is two, >> you're going to get people who come in
for more >> more nature recreation and hanging out and thing. That's that's why >> I like it. >> Cool. All right. Thank you guys. That is very helpful. >> Excellent.
Okay. Um, next item in new business is quote for nature walks in the spring and summer from the New Jersey Ottabon. >> Okay, so New Jersey Ottabbon asked if they could submit a quote to do nature
walks in the fall. Um, I'm sorry, in the spring and summer. Uh, let's see here. So, I said, "Sure. Yeah, why not? You can submit them." Absolutely. So, they submitted for a total is it eight, right? 1 2 3 4 5 6 eight eight walks. Um
the total would be $1,900 for them to lead. Uh we haven't done eight walks with them in the past in one year. They just submitted this. I mean, we can definitely say, well, we're not interested in eight walks. We only want four. We can say we don't want any. We can say we want all. Um, the way the
process would work is that they basically come and they do the walk and they do like they do the woodcock walk, they do the summer experience, the birds and butterflies. Um, and they point out, you know, to everyone what's going on. It's really led by a professional
naturalist, which was great at our Negri Napod and our John Clyde preserves. Um, if we were anything we approve, if it involves money, the next step is I tell I take what you tell me and then I bring it to the open space advisory committee
on the 21st and say we would like this amount of money subtracted from the open space trust to conduct these nature walks. If it gets approved, we then set it up with them and they do everything. Um, basically it's just, you know, they do it at our sites and they point out
they are very well attended, I will say, when they're held. Um the other thing I will say is I think the most we've ever done with them in one year is four. So just some background. >> I was surprised to see as many how many there were and in my experience they were always at Negri. Have they done it at John Clyde before?
>> They have done a few but not it's usually at Negri. Yes. Usually at Negri because they're really focused on the birding for the most part you know. >> And one of the things I've noticed in the past is that like often times people not necessarily from Franklin are going >> correct practically anyone in So I feel
like they were a lot of advertising. >> So they're advertising of themselves. So I think that if we were to move forward with them, I think we would make a concerted effort to really recruit and register folks from Franklin >> to really take advantage of that and cuz
people love birding. People from birders are just coming to Negri because it's a great place to bird >> from all over the state. >> Correct. Yes. Um and before I think this committee, you know, over the last >> probably like eight years, I think we've
made a real concerted effort to do host more hikes on our own. It used to be that Ottabon were the hikes. >> Correct. >> Like and so they were the hikes >> since you all have taken over really leading them. We've really reduced we had one year we didn't use them at all.
Um so yeah, so that's a good point. all birding. >> Uh not all birding. Uh like the so the woodcock is um the one in the ones at John Clyde I think are focused on habitat. Some birding when they are in
Negri they are very heavily focused on birds and butterflies. Those are the real contacts when they do go to John Clyde. But as you can see it's not all the time John Clyde. It's really focused on the native grasslands but with birding. >> So we are not involved in this right?
They do on their own. They do not always like and everything else do not. No, we can go. We can, you know, go. >> We can participate, but we don't need to lead it. They >> and that's that makes it nice as well >> to have some that um that they're that they're leading.
>> I mean, one way to look at it is that if if we were to go with all of the walks, we could focus any of the walks we do not at the Grasslands Preserve. We could do them in other places because we know they're being held here. If we only want to do some of them because we don't need you feel that we don't need all of these walks here, that's fine, too.
>> I guess I'm still I'm curious about um do they have cut offs for how many people can register? >> Uh no, they do not. >> Okay. >> That has posed a problem in the past with parking. Um >> but no, they don't they do not have uh
cut offs. >> So when are they planning on this walk? >> This is for spring, summer, and fall of So this is basically Yeah. So, it's like not in the winter, but it's um spring. Yeah. Spring, summer, the last one is scheduled for September, I think. No,
October. October of 2026. >> And one of the fees here, see this $100 fee. This is their advertising and administration fee. So that's it. So the the walks, the guided walks themselves are $1,800 and then they charge $100 for basically putting the fly, you know,
putting it on their website cuz you can register on their website and then we also post it on our website um this way. But you register through autobond you you know. >> So I mean could we do it through parks and recreation?
>> Well so there's no one there to lead it when we do our >> No. I mean we have still have Audabon do it. Oh, well, >> but as far as like the advertising and like how we've been doing it through >> parks and wreck, >> we Well, so if they're going to advertise it and be in charge of the registration, it's like we want them to do it because if we have two different
registr cuz they need to register people through Ottabon, like they can't just take our registration. So, if we have two different registrations going on, it's kind of duplicative. We do advertise the walks. We put them on social media. We put them on our website. Uh the registration though, I mean, it actually is really helpful.
We're going to pay them. It's like great for them to do that work because it takes a lot of pressure off of the rec staff and >> I guess either >> Yeah. >> My my experience is is that we've we have a lot more local people going on our hikes. We do >> using parks and recreation.
>> So my my reservation is is that they're advertising and they're advertising everywhere >> and the majority of people coming aren't Franklin people. >> Right. >> Right. That's >> why are we paying for it? >> Why are we paying for it? >> Yeah. The only reason we be paying for it really is because it's on our
property is to kind of like bring people to our property to enjoy it, you know, to But no, I understand what you're saying completely. I understand your point. The thing is is that if they are to do this, you know, for them to show their numbers and to really run the program, they have to take care of all
the the uh administration. >> I'm wondering I'm wondering if we could have them like what if we um were to ask them to initially advertise like in Franklin. What if we like initially did like like a town advertising and then like let's say for two weeks and then
like would expand outside to their regular network just something to kind of >> their advertising is cuz I I'm on one member um but not an aid burger so but I see that all it's just it's their email list their website their social media
they're they're reaching out to anything or putting ads >> but we're putting it on our social media we putting it on our website like it's almost like we got first if we were able to put it at first. >> Oh, if there's a limit to like a limit the number of people can sign up. >> There's not a limit. There's no limit.
And I I think I don't know that they're willing to do that. I can ask them, but they're I mean, for them, they're the New Jersey Autobon chapter, so I don't know that they're going to want to like, you know, >> there's no limit. I'll see if I >> All right. Let's just double check that there's no limit.
>> There's no limit for sure. Yeah, because they like send me their list and everything that they do after the fact and I'm like, okay, you have a question? >> Yeah, I was all I was going to say is that if there's no limit then whether they you know whether there's no prohibition against you know us using
the resources that we have available to us to to uh advertise it to people in Franklin and just point them to the Ottabon for the for the registration. Right? If if advertising happens on, you know, the the township website or, you know, through township sources or by putting up flyers in schools or, you know, whatever whatever it is that we
do, you know, or our social media, then should we just point it's just a matter of pointing them to a different, you know, link, right, to to sign up for stuff. So, it's a distinction without a difference, we can still, you know, promote it, right? If the concern is there's not enough people from Franklin because they don't make enough local effort, we can make a local local effort. But what I but what this
actually but I have a second like kind of tangential unrelated you know maybe annoying I don't know right point that I always have with stuff like this that actually this sort of thing makes me think about the fact that like we don't we don't have like a budget we don't have like a a set you know we don't have
sort of like a process right everything like comes in and like oh does that seem like a good idea okay let's go you know see you know can we please ask you know to do this you know to do this I think it might be better structurally this might be a longterm thing you know to think about, you know, if we had like a like a, you know, $5,000, you know, whatever whatever that number would be,
like, you know, because this isn't this isn't what's going to, you know, move taxes 10 to 15% down, right? You know, 5,000 here, 5,000 there, right? Kind of if we had a budget that we knew that we could just spend, you know, on stuff like this, it would make it a lot easier. >> It would the only thing is so the
process in place is that we any of us the subcommittees of the open space committee have to recommend everything to the open space committee who does oversee the budget. >> I mean, that's the way we do it now. I think this committee were to say you've got $5,000 to spend, then you know that would change. But uh you know that's I
mean I I that would be great but I cannot see that happen because they watch every penny. Well, I'll tell you that even on recording I'll say that to be true. They watch >> saying it seems kind of you know it seems kind of ownorous, right? But >> yeah. So so it's $1,900. Um, so just
going back to the advertising part, just for me it's like once again like without using using social media, using our website, we weren't getting people to come. The only thing that's had a positive impact on our attendance is parks and recreation. So I don't know if
maybe if it's not maybe if registration is not through parks recreation but we can somehow >> advert you know maybe it's something we could think about because I just we haven't had any luck other than well New Jersey their walks that they've held on our site are very well attended now if
they're well attended by Franklin people I don't know that's what I'm >> um but I don't think I mean honestly like from from my seat basically dealing with their registration and also our registration sounds like like a >> No, I'm agreeing with you. I'm just saying I accept that, but I'm saying can
we still advertise it? Not that you'd be signing up through us. Like I don't know even on through parks and recreation, could we also have them >> we could probably put on their calendar maybe on their calendar just something to kind of advertise it locally um in a way that we know has been
>> Absolutely. Yeah. We can we can they allow a link to go to someplace else. >> Yeah. Yeah. or or put it on their calendar, you know, with or an advertising kind of a space where they might see it. >> We could do that. >> Bulletin board. >> Yeah, for sure. We could that stuff we
could absolutely do. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. >> What do you guys think about the number of walks? >> Well, I was going to say I was just going to mention that if you wanted to uh you could if you wanted to cut some. I'm thinking the July at John Clyde because that kind of would coincide with the uh butterfly butterfly walk. Firefly
walk. Yeah. And also >> so and maybe summer isn't what you call it well. I mean people are away or something like that. So I don't know but if you want I'm just saying if you wanted to cut some I mean that's the number
>> the number of hours. So that's one or two hours long right usually one or two hours. So the first 5 hours >> the first 250 like I feel like the first walk to Nasha for the is two walks. So that's why so it's $300.
>> Okay. 3 hours maybe. >> So they're talking about the walk they do and then they're talking about the work they have to put in ahead of it. So I guess like travel and like advertising and computer work and like mapping >> all of those hours. Got it. >> That's not bad. 50 bucks an hour.
>> My other question is with um the September October events. Do they work around our hunting season for John CL? >> Yes. They're familiar with our hunting season and they'll work around that. Yep. So, if we get rid of the July one,
that's one less that's uh minus 250. So, that brings us down to$,650. >> So, >> and they've and we've paid them in the past to do this. >> A couple >> usually only two to four a year. This is the first time they've submitted a quote for this many.
>> I mean, just what was the our attendance? >> Attendance. We've had I mean every walk they had it's yeah it's like 30 or 40 people probably but negoti on your on your property. We have a lot of burers who are interested in that's a
great place to go see woodcocks >> pay us to bring our people over here. >> It seems actually first like they should be paying us. So >> I know that would be nice. But so I was just telling the councilman. So yeah, Negri Napodia is a burning hot spot. So
people come from all over at certain types of the year. The most recent one I think when we had like a red shouldered hawk there and it was like mobbed. It was mobbed. We don't have to do any of these walks if we don't want either. This is literally autobond being like, "Hey, want us to do a few walks?" So we can do
some, we can do none. Um again, I have to get it to open space. If we don't get it to them by October 21st, open space is probably not going to meet in November. So, it would be good to like I would think like maybe we should consider like the the four >> like you know if we want to consider two
or four and like you know I think within that I think the eight seems like a lot because we haven't been working with them for a couple years. Maybe we do the two or four again and then next year we can decide the following year we can decide do we want to keep it that same? Do we want to increase it to the eight?
I mean, >> um I know it's it's hard sometimes for us to figure out for us to make times in our schedules to lead things. So, it's nice to have >> another option. >> Well, I'll make this recommendation if if you will be willing to maybe consider doing five only because the Woodcock
walks, people go crazy for the Woodcock walks. They love them to bits. So, that's two right there. But people will come again. They love the Woodcock walk. Love it. >> But that's $300. Only $50 more. >> Correct. Yeah. So if you if you kept these two and then you chose like one
for each um like season. >> So so four lines but it would be five hikes. >> It's up to you. You don't have to do that. But I just think the woodcock walks are well it's so if we kept the woodcock walks that's in March and then July we're not going to do. So if you want to do like March
>> either May or June and then either August or September and keep October or if you want >> we do the Firefly Walk. I forgot that's July right? >> Yeah. So yeah, everybody likes >> and August is our time to do. >> Yeah, you guys do in July and August.
>> So So September or September? >> So yes to the two Woodcock walks. How about let's go down the line. How about May then at John Clyde? >> When is National Trails Day? >> June.
>> The first Saturday. >> May sounds like a good month. May. So no June, no July, no August. You just keep September, October months. I think you can remove. >> Yes. The September. >> September you you can keep
>> March. So March, May, September, October. Do we do anything like a Halloween theme? >> I think that we've done autumn, right? We've done autumn stuff. Yeah. >> So that leaves us with we could two for the first one, right? And then
May and uh October or September. Actually September. So we have John Clyde one two with and one uh great >> we want to give them one summer like one summer month I just for burning reasons.
>> We need we need amoreie our burner >> July she'll say no to probably because I know in July she always says it's so hot and it's so boiling. Yeah, >> we know we definitely don't want July but I don't know if we want to give them June or August. >> I would leave the summer open for >> Yeah. just okay.
>> So keep it in July and August and keep the rest of >> that brings us 300 plus 250 is 550. >> 250 >> and then another 500. Another 500 is 1050 and then the So that's 1150. >> So you're getting rid of three.
>> Getting rid of the keep into October. >> Yeah. And we have to keep the So So I do need a motion then and uh like I need that to be able to go to OSAC and say that you want to do this. >> Okay. So, which ones are? >> So, we're doing a we're doing a a >> March for two Wood Cox.
>> So, 250s time three plus a 300 plus the $100 fee, right? So, you said 1150. >> Is that right or no? >> I think that's right. >> Yeah, my math cut me off. >> It's March, May. >> Yep. >> March, May, September, October.
>> Okay. That's um Yes, that's >> one of these walks uh in in fall >> will have the uh the trees color colorful. Is there anyone that >> Well, October. Yeah, I think October is
probably the best one. >> That's the Okay. >> Well, the nice thing is we keep that. >> Yeah. Well, if we keep September and October, September's at Megy, October's at John Clyde. So, you can get the best of both. >> Mhm. >> We often do our own hikes. I mean, as well, we don't have any schedule right
now, but um >> yeah, there's some great trails that have like the leaves, you know, that changing the colors of leaves, right? With John Clyde, it's more the grassland, so you're going to there are trees in there if you go into the more wooded areas, but if you're in the grassland section, you're not going to really experience the majesty of my
other trails. Um, so now I mean, I would also wonder if the maybe the advertising is going to go down because we're doing four less hikes. So, I'm wondering if that $100 might go down. Just >> I don't know. I could ask them. Yeah, I'm not sure, but I'll ask. >> So, um so I need we need a motion. We
need a motion um to approve um hikes of New Jersey Audabon um for up to 1150. Perfect. >> Should we wait for Patrick to come back or >> we have enough I think without him if you guys unless you don't want to unless
you want to wait for him. Up to you. >> That's fine. You can go ahead. >> We can go do something else on the agenda. >> Right. We can wait until that. >> All right. Um t-shirts. That was the next item on our list is our is our t-shirts. Thank you, Terra, for helping us along.
>> I'm really excited for you for this logo. >> Y >> to move forward. >> Thank you. Thanks for all your guys' feedback. I think like we all massaged it together and figured it out. It looks actually better than I thought it would. >> It does. Yeah, I like it a lot. orange. It's a good shade.
>> Yeah. I hope I hope they age well >> cuz my hats like my hat I love my original hat, but it's like they they're fading. They're fading. >> Yeah. >> Um >> Oh, we can do the motion then. Okay, let's do the motion. So, we got that
done. Um, can I have a motion um to um approve the four five hikes with New Jersey Audabon for up to $1,150? Have >> a motion? So moved.
>> All right. Um moved in a second. Um and all in favor. >> Great. >> I think you said five walks. I think it's four. >> It's five. It's five because the first one the wood clock is two. So, is that $300? $600. >> $300 for two because it's back to back.
>> Oh, okay. All right. All right. So, two Oh, I see what you're saying. So, 2, three, four, five. Got it. All right. >> It's four line items. >> Four line items. Five blocks. Thank you. >> Um, okay.
Um, the t-shirts and Yeah, we You know what? If these work out, we might have to get sweatshirts in the future. >> Oh. That would be very nice. >> Some winter activities. >> Yeah, I hike all year long.
>> Um, okay. Sustainable Jersey certification. So, we got our sustainable jersey certification, silver level, which is great. Um, so we are going to receive it at the New Jersey League municipalities in November.
>> Yes. >> Yeah. I'm going from my school. >> Oh, that's great. >> Yeah. So, we're we're good through 2029. So, that's good. >> I'm loud. >> We are all set. >> I do have one more item for new business
that came to me this afternoon if it's okay with you guys. Um Sasha, let me get her correct. Hoser. Sasha Hoser actually. So, her parents used to do a lot of the Girl Scout and Boy Scout walks with Chuck Martin, our old uh member. They're very involved in Boy
Scouts and Girl Scouts. So, their daughter Sasha has been working with the Meadows Foundation to work at the Van Wickle House Trail and she wants to do repairing some of the boards there and she wants to try and like, you know, they've been trying to put the leaves and the brush in like the wet spots.
She's been working on that. Um, the most recent thing is so she is working on the restoration and repair of the boardwalk. She has to do um some replacement of the railing, the deck boards to ensure safety. She's cleaning things and she's
putting up interpretive signs andformational signs for people to look at when they're there. So, she's been working on that. Uh the most recent thing is is that we did approve it. Um the most she just told me this today is that she said
Suanne, who is the president of the Meadows Foundation, said that she's not able to approve the work under the Meadows Foundation because technically the township needs to approve it. So, even though we already approved the plan itself and her project, the Meadows Foundation does not want to basically be
the person to sign off on her Eagle project or say like, "Yes, you're allowed to work on the property cuz the township opens." >> I was confused. >> This is um Sasha is the parent. >> No, Sasha's the daughter. >> The daughter's doing an Eagle Scout project. >> Yes,
>> she joined us under Scout. She wants to be a Life Scout, but she's doing it under Eagle Scout. She joined us on one of the trail. The daughter and mother both. >> Yes. >> Okay. >> A girl scout can do anything. >> I never It's new. >> Okay. Okay. It's new. Yeah.
>> You won so many gold the gold awards. >> A girl scouts. >> No, she's she's in, if I remember her correctly, she's in both girl scouts. >> She is. >> And scouting. >> Okay. >> Or what are they called? Boy Scouts, not scouting America. >> Yes, she is. >> She's doing the Eagle Project for Scouting America. She's also doing a
gold award separately for Scouts. >> Okay. Well, Girl Scouts can participate now in Eagle. Yeah. Even if you're not a Boy Scout, you actually as a girl now can participate in the Eagle. But I think I think um Patrick is right that she is attempting to do both. >> Yeah. Yeah.
>> So, basically, long story short, the Meadows Foundation does, and understandably so, they don't want to sign off on saying like, "Yes, you're allowed to actually rip apart the deck now and everything. We want the township to say that because we own the property." Yeah. >> So, in order for her to get that
approval in the approval here, again, I'll bring it to the open space. >> Who who insures her in case something >> she's insured under the Boy Scouts and the Girl Scouts? Yep. She also signs a waiver that's on file here. She's already signed that. >> Um, and that's that's written up by our
attorney. She already signed that. Um, she's raising the money for the materials. So really at this point and and Suanne is the the president of the Meadows, they lease the house from us. So I understand her not feeling comfortable signing off. So if it's okay
and you can either you can allow Vanessa to be the signer on it. Um then we're good to go. >> And I hope that after she finishes we recognize her. >> We will. Absolutely. We will. >> Even in the council we can be >> for sure. Yep. Usually the mayor tries
to go to the Eagle award ceremonies as long as he can, but yes, at the council we should recognize her as well. Yep. >> Can you re I don't remember that proposal. That sounds great. That sounds fantastic for the for the Van Wickle Trail. >> What she's doing is for her Eagle project, I will lead the restoration and
repair of the boardwalk on the property of the historic Van Wickle House, which is managed by the Meadows Foundation. This boardwalk provides access to the nearby canal and includes a large overlook and nature area. I will clean off and restore the back bird watching deck to the garage at the historic Van
Wickle House. I will also add signage for parking where things are such as bird overwatch, marsh overlook, local wildlife in addition to adding to the sign out front so it says bird watching and marsh overlook. So, the general scope is replacing damaged deck boards
on the boardwalk, repairing or replacing damaged railing sections on both sides, trimming back overgrown vegetation along the length of the boardwalk, as well as the entrance and exit, cleaning and restoring existingformational signs to improve visibility, and adding signage to guests
to know where bird watching overwatch is along the marsh. Look, >> so it's all the boardwalk area, not the trail area. >> Correct. Okay. That's That's what I'm like. I'm not remembering anybody proposing to go and doing a trail thing. That's great. That's >> Oh, yeah. So, she already started, you know, that trail area though that's by the garden.
>> Yeah. That's >> She takes like when she trims things, she takes them and walks them over and puts them in the wet spot there as a way to kind of dry it up, but it doesn't, you know, doesn't really do much, but she's making an effort. >> Yes. >> That was her original proposal. It was that.
>> Yeah, it was. >> You weren't at the This was the first meeting I attended. Yeah, right there. >> Oh, that's where I'm drawing this. >> I think she realized the video. She started filling in that back trail. I think she realized that like it wasn't
>> I'm going to drag it out. >> She was on a Zoom call with us. >> Yes. >> So, I just I need I do need a motion to allow Vanessa to be the signature person for this. And it's signing off on the Boy Scout form. It's, you know, it's saying like, yes, we approve your project and like when it's done that like you've done it and you've
satisfied. Can we have a motion um to approve for me on behalf of the trails committee to approve Stasha's project with Scouts America? >> I proposed second. >> Second. >> Okay. Second. >> All in favor?
Seeing none or abstensions. >> Thank you. Perfect. >> Okay. We'll let her know. Thank you. >> Okay. Um moving on to old business to path. uh to to path. Just a reminder, it's on October 25th. Uh it starts off
at Cad Cadwell Park in Trenton. Um the 50-mi bike ride, ends up in Franklin Township at the Blackwells Mills entrance. Um Brad Fay from DNR Canal Watch is still working on it. His write up is in the Franklin Times. Um it's
going to be in the Franklin Times. Uh that's coming out. It's on our website. It's on our social media. it's in the scrolling banner on the front page of our website. Um, so our job really again is just to promote it and that's what we've done. So we are good there. But if anyone wants to participate, uh, I think
I sent out the flyer, but the QR code is there. There's a few different options. There's a 5K run. Uh, there's the half marathon, there's the 20 mile bike ride, and there's the 50 mile bike ride. Thanks. I am u my board treated that day. Um, so I'm not able to do it. I was
wanting to, but I can't. Oh, that's okay. Yeah, that's all right. >> And we'll try to we'll try to go quicker this next section. I know we have about five minutes before 9. >> Yeah. >> Um Okay. Franklin Day, uh September 13th. >> Yeah. So, Franklin Day was held. I just,
you know, I think it went well. So, >> yeah. Thanks for everybody. There was a lot of representation there. Thanks for everyone coming in and pitching in. >> Weather was much better than last year. >> It was much better. It was It was It was a contrast. >> It was a contrast.
Um, okay. Uh, the partnership for stigmafree Port Franklin. >> I don't have updates yet on that >> for September. >> Yeah, I'm kind of just keeping that on there as a reminder. >> Great. >> Uh, profile of a trail. I'm I know last
time we talked about that and we had we had professions and then we had the next one was going to be Roberts. >> Yes. We want to >> I have to get that up on our on our um website which I will. I just haven't done it yet. So, yes. >> And also submitting for the Franklin
Times. Right. >> Right. Yep. Mhm. Okay. Got it. Okay. >> Let's just start thinking about doing one for our own trails. So, we have them in the wings. >> Yeah. I don't have anything on the grant program either.
>> Okay. And the last time we talked about the grant program, we were talking about our priorities um being um Neon Williams Park and then ext is one option and the other one is um extending the ADA compliance of the trail at Negri.
>> Correct. >> So those were the ones that we were pushing. We wanted open space to be aware of um for consideration as we apply for the Somerset County Trails Grant Program. I know the chair of of the Somersar County um open space keeps
reminding me that it's a you know come in first come first serve get it in get it in you know uh so um definitely good for us to move forward with that when we are able to uh trail next item is trail walks and
events so Chris is working on the bike rodeo so if you want to talk about that Chris >> yeah so uh was during our last We talked about having this kids bike event for you know safety and encourage them to understand uh you know greater awareness of traffic and how to handle their bikes. Uh so we have our bike rodeo
coming up on the 18th. Um and everything's all set. We partnered with Ridewise and the police department. Um I believe it's their public engagement um arm. And so everything's in line. Promotions began this week. Um I sent it out to the schools. I don't know if uh
Terra or if anyone from recursion sent it out to them as well. So I hope to see that. Um but being a parent of a child in the frame of school is it flyers for events usually don't come the week or two before anyway. So I don't think it's um really missing anything. But uh the
flyer is also in your email. So feel free to share that amongst your social media or friends. And it's open to everybody, not just Franklin Township residents. and I had it posted or I asked for it to be posted on you'll see it on our social media and again on our website and on our township calendar and I know
recreation put it on their calendar. So, yep. So, it's all set there. >> Hey, thanks for pulling this together. This is it's going to be fun. >> And I'm leading hike on this Saturday for our school parents. We have about 30 parents registered.
[Music] >> Nice. Nice. >> What location? job. >> That's awesome. That'll be really good. >> Thank you. >> Oh, I also forgot to mention if anyone wants to assist um with the festivities,
all the details are in the um flyer. >> Yeah, it looks great. >> Yeah, >> it looks really cool. >> I I plan to be there. >> We have some high school volunteers. Um and I think that's it.
>> I need to wear our shirts. shirts. You can debut your shirts. >> You're going to be noticeable. Um, okay. Ideas for fall winter uh hikes. So, I know we have the the bike rodeo um
October coming up. And any other um ideas or interest in leading or supporting a hike this fall or winter? [Music] We can talk about it at the next meeting too if that helps. I think we'll get the
bike ride rodeo up and going, but I think it would be great to do something in the winter because it's different to see the trail and the woods and everything in in as it is in winter, you know, different things going on. >> I just I got a little burned last winter. I did two hikes and I didn't get
any turnout. So, I was like the whole build it and they will come. I'm like, I'm going to do it. They're going to come. And I know maybe we just need to think of a different >> Yeah. I don't Jasha just said before like oh you know we should do something for Halloween. >> Yeah Halloween hike. >> I was like what that would be a cool
night hike if we did just like a not not necessarily Halloween but like like a something like maybe spooky or >> Yeah, that would be cool. >> Like some Halloween theme. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Halloween adjacent or Yeah. It could be whatever. Like I know some places do those where
people have like they're dressed in costumes along >> watershed institute they are doing the people will be in a costume they have their own people volunteers they're going to stand with the different costume >> at different distances and they're going to welcome all the kids and like parents
>> they have plans like yeah maybe for next year we could try that but maybe for the winter maybe we could like take that same concept and do some type of like winter wonderland kind of >> thing I don't know what it would be exactly But >> yeah, to be out
>> using the um I don't know how usable. I haven't been to Middleish for a while, but the place where uh you know there's uh just behind the parking lot there are some things for the kids. So maybe a winter wonderland >> thing for people that parents can park
and have the lights on and >> Oh, that would be cute. Yeah, we could definitely do something like that. Yeah, >> I think so. I we got to put some thought into it, but >> Okay. Yeah. >> Um updates on trail conditions
uh on people's trails. I know mine um is the same as it was last month that I submitted, which is we had just a bunch of large trees that are down. Um >> they're done. I've been told that they've been removed. Yes, that's what I've been told. >> Okay, I'm going to go go I'll go double check it.
>> Yes, that would be great if you can. Um >> I think >> that's what I was I was just told. So let's hope at Butler, right? Butler and um >> Bunker Hill. >> And Bunker Hill. Yes. >> So down by the cliffs that that loop the loop by the cliffs last time I was
there. Um they were still there, but I have not been in the last 10 days or so. So >> Okay. All right. I will keep an eye out. But yes, I was told Butler at least. I could have swore Bunker Hill, too. >> I hope so. Franklin Park. It was
>> Franklin Park. Low hanging branches over path near parking. >> Um, >> and then Butler Road, Purple Trail. Purple Trail, removed down trees. So, Franklin Park. So, not Bunker Hill. >> Okay. >> Which one is it on Bunker Hill? Which trail?
>> It's the It's the Brown Trail, the loop near the cliffs. >> It's in Yeah, it's in my last um report and I had the low hanging branches as well. >> Okay. That's been done. Park and Boker Hill, you know, they connect. Um, >> okay,
>> I'll put it. >> And that's something else we might want to rethink as Kubble Park is finished is that because like the majority of the trail is going to be at Bunker Hill. Like it's, you know what I mean? Cuz like the section that was the Franklin Park side is mostly going
to be Kulpa Park now. >> Okay. Okay. Any other trail updates? Uh Chris and I did some work at for the bird blind at Nag. You have >> those pictures that she emailed us. Did she email him today? >> She did when her email said she was not
going to be here. She had pictures she asked us to share for her trail report. >> Oh, okay. >> So, we put some fence post and some fence sections. If you look at the bird blind to the right. So, and then >> Oh, there we go. >> Oh, yeah. Hey, look at that.
So, uh, we'll probably go back in November, >> do some more work. >> All right. >> Thank you. Thank you. Thanks, Chris. >> So, it's looking good. >> Yeah. And we should >> Is it safe to enter yet or no? >> Uh, the the bird blind itself.
>> Yeah. Well, the floor is kind of Yeah, you could. >> Yeah. Tread lightly maybe. >> Still work to be done. >> Oh, that's good. You guys made a ton of progress. >> Thank you, Jim. Also the floor there it looks like
there's a new board there on the floor. >> Yeah, I think we did put some Yeah, we sec we did some securing and I think he put some down. Yeah, >> I think you put it on the wall also, right? It's a new >> Mhm. >> the walls like Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Old now
things with with the newer wood next to the older wood. You're showing its age. And you can see the hornets nest to the left on the upside down uh or the yellow jacket nest. >> The bench on the left, >> right? >> The little white thing.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Yellow jackets living. >> Okay. The bench the bench is going to go back. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Thank you for your work. That's great. >> Great. >> Okay. Thank you for doing that. Um, one thing, uh, not trails related, but this
weekend is that, uh, Somerset County Journey through the past. All the historic places are open. It's really good. >> I learned how to make yarn out of uh, sheep, wool. >> Yeah. So, you go to these different houses, they do some things. Graveyard in Southbound Brook. Really neat,
interesting things. So, if you got some time, Saturday, and Sunday all day. >> It is. >> Just Google it. >> I've done it before. It is really, really cool. And like you can do the northern section, the central section and the southern section, you can do different like each day. It is like
really really interesting, you know. And if you go certain restaurants and stuff, if you bring like this book they give you or paper like you get percentage off at certain restaurants stuff. It's really >> the cards you collect of all the historical things, you know. >> It's great. >> It's really neat. Yeah. Kids would love it. Yeah.
>> And I know. Um >> Oh, yeah. The kids will absolutely love it. Yeah. >> Where where do they where does it start? It's all over the county. >> Every, you know, like uh Van Wickl House may have something and there's one on the way to Bound Brook. Um I think
Middle Bush Road also they do one of the house on Middle Bush Road. So yeah, if you go if you go to uh what you call it uh you Google it what is it? The the theater in South B South Bound Brook that's historic. Uh there's a graveyard there. the Grizz Schoolhouse
has been opened for the weekend on occasion. >> There's some churches, historic stuff, >> councilman on the screen here. This is their website. If you Google it, but if you go to their map, you can see um >> probably involved in what? It's a ton. Yeah, it's a lot of different sites
involved. >> 40 sites. >> See, and they split it into north, central, and south. >> That's right. >> And then you can kind of see so Run Reformed Church. Heyman House is in it in Franklin. East
Milstone Bridge Tenders, Old Millstone Forge, Griggstown Schoolhouse, Griggstown Bridge Tenders House, Amy Garrett House, >> all kinds of things. >> And this is the southern part. This, you know, then you can go and you can do North County. >> Is that Saturday and Sunday?
>> Saturday. >> Saturday and Sunday. >> Okay. Okay. Okay. >> So, see in the central part though, like they open up the Abraham's house that day and it's all free. It's like it's all free and you can go inside all of these houses. The um Wallace House, >> Somerville. Oh, this one's really cool.
The Somerville Firehouse. That one's fun. Yeah. >> Oh, and if you go Sunday, I think it was uh was it What's that off of 22? Was that Washington Rock Park or >> Oh, Chimney Rock. >> Chimney Rocks. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Rock. >> Sunday. >> General George Washington will give a
talk. Not President Washington. General Washington. He'll talk about the Revolutionary War. There's two places there. Washington Armstead is open. All the >> Is it Washington Valley Park or >> No, it's called Washington Rock. >> Oh, I was right. Okay. Yeah.
>> Oh, in Green Brook. Okay. It's cool. >> It's fun. >> And the um I in Middle Sex on Saturday at the They have the Oldtown Village where they have all the old little houses >> in Piscato. there in Piscatoway, Johnson Park, right? They're they're going to
have um the great great great grand niece of Harriet Tubman >> is going to be there and she she wrote a book and so she's going to be presenting and they're having a bunch of different cultural events going on including this amazing tap dancer Omar Edwards um who's
a a cousin of Savon Glover and um so I was planning on doing that and now I'm torn well Sunday you guys >> maybe I'll do this on Sunday and that on Saturday. Yeah. Um, so, um, with all that said, can we have a motion to adjurnn?
>> So moved, I guess. >> A second. Robert second. All in favor? All right. Motion carries. Thank you so much. >> Thank you guys.