If you're if you have access to a seat, please sit in it. Try and remain still and let us uh try and do the talking. U Good evening. It's the zoning board meeting of September 18, 2025 in
accordance with the open public meetings act 1975, chapter 231. Adequate notice of this regular meeting of the zoning board of the township of Franklin has been provided. Board members, applicants, professionals, and members
of the public, please speak directly into the microphone so our recording secretary can properly process minutes. Applicants and professionals, please fill out the sheet on the table when you've completed your testimony. Uh, please call the role.
Cheryl Bethia Faras Khan. uh Shapendu Singh and I think that's all of them have asked to be excused. Richard Brokanic uh Basim Verdas here. Alan Rich here. Gary Rosenthal here. Robert Shepard
here. Michael Dy here. Kunalakia here. Chairman Thomas here. We have minutes of the regular meeting August 7th, 2025. Alan Rich and Michael Dy cannot vote. I'll move need a second. Second.
Wait, who said it? I'm sorry. I Oh, Gary. I apologize. I didn't hear it. And you second. Uh, yes, that's correct. Vasim Berdas. Yes. Gary Rosenthal. Yes. Robert Shepard. Yes. Kunalia.
Yes. Robert Thomas. Okay. Resolution ID I logistics ZBA 2400. We need a motion for that. This is the one that we were sent late.
That is correct. Okay. I'll move that. Okay, I'll second that. Okay. Vim Berdas, yes. Alan Rich, yes. Gary Rosenthal, yes. Robert Shepard,
yes. and Chairman Thomas. Yes, there's no discussion uh on our agenda for board meetings. Bounce Air Adventure Park LLC ZBA25 O19.
This is a use variance in which the applicant seeking permission to operate an indoor recreation facility at 940 Eastn Avenue, Somerset, block 385, lot 2.07 in the GB zone. and it's all yours,
Mr. Chairman. Members, thank you. John Wneski of Wneski and Associates representing Bounce Air Adventure Park LLC on this application for a use variance. Uh, first thing I'd like to just check, Mr. Chairman, with you and
council, we have submitted an affidavit of service and publication, and I just wanted to confirm that the board is accepting jurisdiction. Board is accepting jurisdiction. Thank you very much. We have three witnesses tonight. Uh we have our engineer who prepared the plan that's up
on the boards. Uh we have a principal of the business and we have our planner. Uh Mr. Chairman, do you want to have them all sworn in now or do you want to swear them in individually as they testify? We can swear them all in now. Okay. Uh would you all please stand? You
want them to stand and raise their hand? No, just raise your hands. Raise your right hand. The testimony you're about to give is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. So help you, God. State your full name individually, one at a time. Spell your last and by whom
you are represent, who you represent or your credentials. Hang Lynn. H A N G R I N. I'm the owner of the uh Bounce Air RC. Allison Coffin. It's C O FF I N. I work for James W. Higgins Associates. I'm a
licensed professional planner in the state of New Jersey and I'm also certified I'm also certified by the American Institute of Certified Planners. I have appeared here in Franklin previously but it's been a number of years and licensed in New Jersey. Yes, we accept it next.
Uh this is Chuenjang Q F. Uh, the licensed professional engineer in New Jersey with Polar Engineering PC licensed current. Uh, licensed professional engineer. Are you is your license current in the
state of New Jersey? Yes. Active. Thank you. Mr. Wiznooki, we're going to do these one at a time. Sure. In terms of the testimony testimony. Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. So, just two preliminary matters. Uh, we received both reports from the township. uh the
planners report which we will get to in our testimony but we also received the report from the environmental commission. Uh one of the things that I had exchanged with the commission the recommendations or the requests that they had made all have to do with the exterior of the building. We are a
tenant in Ruters Plaza. Our lease and I provided the commission with a copy of that and I think I provided to your uh planning staff. The lease specifically limits us to what's happening within the four walls. So there are, for instance, requests in that report for landscaping,
for a roof garden, for um lights on the exterior in the parking lot to be changed. We don't have the ability or jurisdiction to do that. If we did, we would, but we don't have the ability to do that. So, I wanted to put that out there first. I wanted to start with our
our engineer uh which is Chuon Jang uh who is going to walk through the plan that's up on the board and describe what's there. Uh good evening. Uh I want to introduce the four parts. The first part is
project description of the uh bounce air adventure park. Uh so our project now is uh is for family inter uh entertainment center. Um
so uh as shown in the plan in the plan uh we will see we have the five party room uh with the indoor coffee and the commercial kitchen. So all of these all of these uh component fit within the
20,000 square ft building. So this we are not expanding uh any footprint and additional square footage. Uh in short so this the project reuse uh vacant retire box without altering lot
coverage or building height. Uh the final design uh carefully separate the play zone for children by age and function with clear uh circulation path and supervised sight lines. It also provide ADA complaint access and
amenities. The second part is uh the building code complaints. So we have the uh minimum three exit uh and egress path. The common eress paths are well within the
allowable uh limits. Uh the restroom and the accessory facility. So we have the one uh men restroom, one woman and two uni unisex ADA complaints rest room. Um
in addition we uh have accessible road are provided um entire facility for each play area. Uh the receptant counter is shown the ADA height 34 in minimum. Okay. So the
third part is for zoning and the community compatibility. So we don't have any variance for density, coverage, height, the height. Um and also so uh uh now the current though
is general business. So we are will only use for entertainment use only and the planner is going to cover the use issue. So you don't need to go through that. Okay. Okay. Okay. Uh the last part is the parking and traffic. I we did the
basic research. Uh the ruggers plaza provide a large shared parking more than 800 space. Um in conclusion uh we believe our use not only satisfy building and the safety requirement but also align well for the local planning
goal and the public interest. Uh thank you for your time and attention. Thank you Mr. Chairman. Any members have any questions? Anybody? What's in the building now in the space they're going to occupy? It was an office depot. Okay.
It's empty. It's empty. I mean, it's probably got some of the remains of Office Depot, but Yes, it's unused. Okay. Yeah. I I drove by there the other day. Is there two stories in there? Two levels? Two levels? Yes. No,
no, no. It's just one level. One level. One level. It's a tall space. Yeah. Right. Okay. Okay. We won't open to the public until they're all done. Sure. Okay. Next, I would like to um have Mr. Hanglin, who is the principal of the business. Uh and I'm going to
walk him through the operations of the business. So, first uh just refresh the board. What's your position with the applicant? He's going to need the mic. John, real close. I'm the owner of the uh of of the business.
Christine, can I borrow that one? That might Sorry, I keep doing that. Okay. So, um, what days? Seven days a week, Monday to Friday, Saturday, and Sunday. Describe for the board your
hours of operation. So, for the weekdays, we're going to open at 2:00 p.m. and close at 8:00 p.m. And weekends, we open at 10 a.m. and closing at 9:00 p.m. Is there an age limitation on your patrons? Your your target market?
Yes, our target market is from uh 5 to 15. And there's an age limit for over 18. When you 18 and older, you're only allowed to come in only only uh only on the private event, meaning
you have to book you have to uh rent the entire space for for your private use only. Then we will close for public and the goal is to keep young children and older people separate. Yes. And uh during Monday to Friday when
you're open from 2 p.m. uh and later approximately how many people do you expect to be participating or uh using your facility? Uh less than 100. And on the weekends during those longer hours, how many people do you expect? Uh 225 around approximately.
How many employees will you have over the uh weekdays? Uh 8 to 10 employees and the weekends 15 to 20. and break down how many will be at the front door. There's at the bottom of the image on the screen, there's an entrance area with a counter. How many employees do
you anticipate having there? Weekdays uh uh by the counter one or two employees and then two at the kitchen and the rest will be on the floor and they'll be on the floor supervising. Yes. Okay. Uh I don't have any further questions for this witness.
Anything from the board? I'm interested to learn more about the kitchen and uh what you're planning on doing there. What type of things are you going to be preparing and serving? Uh so our food menu will be uh very
simple. Uh chicken nuggets, a pizza, burgers, fries, and some desserts and uh and and the drinks be soft drinks.
Soft drinks. Yes. Okay. Um, so you're go do you have a kitchen in there now? No. Okay. So, you're going to go through the town to get approval for a a kitchen? Yes. Okay, that's good. Thanks. Anyone else?
Can you go through the age limits again? So age limit uh our our our purpose is to uh separate kids from uh playing with uh an 18 and older adults. So we we put age limit on
when we if you're 18 and older, you only allow to come in only when you book when you rent the entire space for a private event. If if we if you if you book the private event then let's say if you uh schedule
uh for next a specific day we will close for public on that day and only for for the private event and the youngest what what how young youngest? Yes. Uh we our target age is from 5 to 15. Five years old. Yes.
So the parents can't come in. Oh, no. Uh, sorry. For the 18 age limit 18 when if you're 18 and older, you private event and then only if you come in with with your children. I think what he what he is trying to
communicate is that obviously parents and guardians are welcome. That's what I was getting at. Yeah. They're not going to be on the jungle gym. They're just going to be watching. But we don't want, you know, say a fraternity to book a room at the same time you've got six-year-olds in the place.
Have you talked about pandicap facility? Uh, the engineer had said that the bathrooms are ADA compliant. Does that satisfy your question? Okay. What's the square footage? The total square footage of the building
of the of this of your tenant space? 20,500 20,500 Okay. Yeah. I'm just going to provide a little quick background which is um uh the way our ordinance is structured, we have a use called indoor recreation. Um
which is permitted in the BI zone. Um this is happens to be in the general business zone. Um the applicant um made an application to um well first of all just so you know again this is in the Ruckers Plaza Shopping Center. I believe it's in kind of in the back left corner, correct?
Former office depot was. So, they're proposing to take over that space. Um, since the and you can see on the on the um the floor plan there, since the majority of the space is basically recreation, you know, you see there's
slides and uh trampolines and foam pits and climbing facilities, ball pools, etc. Since the majority of the square footage was for recreation, I really couldn't find that it was a food and drink establishment. You know, so if this was a restaurant, it would be
permitted. You know, this is really more indoor wreck as the principal use with the, you know, the accessory uh restaurant part. So that's why they're here uh before the board. I'm sure the planner will speak to some degree about um I'm sure in certain towns this is
permitted in shopping centers as a permitted use. uh but it's not in our zone uh just by the way the nature of the way our ordinance is structured. So they had to come before this board for a use variance. Okay, I guess we're ready for the planner.
Okay, thank you Allison. Yes. So the applicant is proposing to convert that former office depot tenant space in Rucker Plaza to an indoor recreation use. This is not a permitted use in the GB zone. So they're requesting a D1
variance. Uh it's my opinion that special reasons exist for the granting of the requested use variance and the variance can be granted with no detriment to the health, safety, and general welfare. Special reasons for the granting of a use variance exist in this this case and that the purposes of the municipal land use law will be advanced
due to the particular suitability of the site and this space for the particular use. The proposed indoor recreation use is a good fit for this retail space. Indoor trampoline parks and bounce house uses which is you know what this uses mostly includes is commonly found in
larger commercial buildings often in shopping centers because they require spaces which have large open spaces and higher ceilings to accommodate the trampoline and other play activities you know the party rooms and the food services. This use also requires parking that is similar to the parking that
would be needed for retail and other commercial uses. So the site can provide the parking that's needed for this use. The inclusion of a indoor recreational use as proposed therefore advances the municipal land use law by promoting the public health, safety, morals, and general welfare and by providing for an
appropriate use in an appropriate location. It's my opinion that there is no detriment that results from this variance. The proposed use and intensity of this use is supported by the site. The existing site provides adequate parking for this use and functions well. As the engineer testified, there's more
than 800 parking spaces in this larger shopping center. Uh based on my discussions with the applicant and looking at the ordinance requirements for indoor recreation use, which is one space for every three people in the building, uh the use is anticipated to have a weekday parking need of 35 to 50
parking spaces during its hours of operations and this number reaching a peak of a 100 spaces during the weekend. These spaces are adequately provided through the shared parking of the overall shopping center. The use will not detriment uh generate any detriment in terms of noise, odor, fire hazard, or
pollution that would impact the general public. Uh the last test for a variance is whether or not it would substantially impair the intent and purpose of your master plan and zoning ordinance. And it's my opinion that this would not. The proposed improvement of the space with indoor recreation use, while not allowed
under the zoning, makes sense for this established site and the existing interior space, and it makes viable use of what is an underutilized tenant space in this shopping center. This type of use does not require significant permanent alteration to the structure it
occupies, which means that this space can easily accommodate either retail or recreation use, which allows the site to be more flexible and responsive to changing market conditions and to easily be converted back to a permitted use should this use cease to occupy the space. The zone permits other recreation
uses, theaters and bowling alleys. So, the inclusion of the use on this site is not wholly offensive to the zone. And lastly, the application advances your master plan land use goal of encouraging commercial commercial development in established areas and in areas where they will least impact residential
neighborhoods. So, for those reasons, it's my opinion that positive reasons do exist for the variance that there's no significant uh negative impact and it would not substantially harm your zoning ordinance or master plan. Mr. Chairman, any questions?
Any questions, board? No. So, I have a question. Um, looking at the layout, I just want to make sure that in your professional opinion, um, there is enough space for
the kids to circulate playing, jumping area and all of that because kids will be running around, but there is enough space uh provided for that in this plan. Well, I I'm not an expert in the interior layouts for recreation spaces,
so I would have to defer to the engineer and the applicant on that. Yeah. Well, let let me just preempt that. Uh this is going to have to go through the building permit process. So, sufficient, you know, room to to maneuver through the space, sufficient egress, all of those things will be
reviewed. Thanks, Mark. Other questions? Is there going to be allocated parking either for the business itself or at least for its employees? I understand
it's 800 share parking spaces, but they're not the only applicant in the uh shopping center. Correct. There are spaces behind the building where generally the employees would park. Um there's a there's a field
of parking there and we've been before the board before on other applications where that has been a point of discussion because there's substantial amount of parking behind the building. Uh in terms of the allocation of the shared parking field to any one
particular use um that's not um how the the the entire property has been uh used over the years. There's 800 shared parking spaces and they are allocated to all of the different uses whether it be
the um you know there's a there's a gym, there's a jewelry store, um there's the empty Kmart box, there's the shopping center, there's the uh McDonald's, so on and so forth. Thank you. All right, if there are no other board
questions, that's your last witness, correct? It is, Mr. Chairman. That's our last witness. All right, we'll open to the public in this part of the meeting. If there's anyone who'd like to ask the witnesses questions concerning their testimony, this would be the time to do
that. Is there anyone who would like to do that? All right. Is there anyone who would like to make a statement concerning this application? All right. Then we'll close to the public. If you have nothing else to say, I'll
Mr. Chairman, just in summation, uh you've heard the testimony of the planner providing the necessary testimony for the basis for the D1 variance. You've heard from the engineer laying uh discussing the layout and from the owner discussing the operations. And I would just conclusion note that in the
municipal master plan uh re-examination in 2016, the needs analysis noticed a shortage of active recreation facilities. This will provide one more recreation facility for the municipality. With that, I urge the board to favorably support this.
Okay. Anything from the board? Anyone have question, comment, or want to offer a motion? I I'll offer a motion. Uh, I move that we grant Bounce Air Adventure Park LLC
uh a use variance to allow them to uh construct an indoor recreational facility at 940 Eastern Avenue Somerset block 385 lot 2.07 in the zone GB. I'll second.
Basim Verdas. Yes. Alan Rich, yes. Gary Rosenthal, yes. Robert Shepard, yes. Michael Dhy, yes. Kunalia, yes. Chairman Thomas, yes. Good luck with it. I think this is a nice uh use for Mr. Chairman, thank you. Members of the
board, thank you for your support. Very. We'll be transitioning now to the next application. Uh the first one will be the Ukrainian Orthodox Church of USA CBA 25008
minor subdivision with a D2 variants in which the applicant is proposing to subdivide the existing lot into two new parcels at 135 Davidson Avenue in the B1 zone. And uh before we start this, we
have some housekeeping uh items to clear up. And one thing I would like to mention right now, if you're we're at the tipping point in terms of how many people that we are legally permitted to have in the room for a
hearing. Uh we can have every seat occupied. We can have one row of people around the perimeter of the room basically against the wall, not too deep, one deep. Uh we
don't obviously want anyone standing in the aisle. They should remain free. U and then I'm going to turn it over to our attorney uh to set a few ground rules. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. This is the
first of three applications relative to the Ukrainian Orthodox Church. This is a subdivision application. Then there will be another application. Then there will be a third application in regard to a proposed
warehouse. Ladies and gentlemen, the zoning board of adjustment uh like any other land use board is considered quasi judicial in nature. One of the things that are not permitted in a court of law and aren't permitted
here are signs of which the board can see. You can have them, but you cannot raise them above the level of where you are. And they should not be coming out during the application in order to influence the board. The board is sitting ostensibly as in a quasi
judicial capacity. I.e. They are supposed to make a decision based upon the testimony they hear, the evidence placed before them, and the issues raised by their own professionals. So,
we need to keep the demonstration of signs, flags, voices, etc. This matter is being taped. It is being recorded. transcript may or may not occur. We will
see what happens. The items before this board are the applications that are being brought this evening. Any issue that has been raised before any other board, body, or commission in
this township is not in and of itself impactful upon the application. I know that some of you are going to want at a point in time later this evening to bring to the attention of the board other actions or lack thereof by other
boards, bodies, and commissions in the township. To the extent they have bearing, we'll deal with it accordingly. To the extent that they have occurred and brings us to it, other boards, bodies, and commissions are advisory in
nature. It is this board that will make the decision on each and every one of the applications. Uh I would again, as the chairman pointed out, if you're in the aisle, can you please find a spot out of the aisle? God forbid something someone we need
access. And again, please do not clap. Please do not yell out. Please do not speak when you are not authorized. As as you sort of saw this evening, though it will be slightly different for each application tonight,
a witness will be called. Testimony will be given. The board will ask questions of the witness. At that point, individual members of the audience will be allowed to come up and speak at that podium
to raise questions as to the individual who is testifying testimony. It is not the time to raise issues about formalities, your concerns or your unhappiness or
happiness with the bo with the application. it is to question the witness. There will be a point in time at the end of each application where members of the public as you in you saw earlier will have the right to speak
about the underlying application. They are being taken ladies and gentlemen one at a time. So we are not currently going to hear testimony on the warehouse. We're going to hear testimony on double triple 007, which is the subdivision
application. Then we will hear the others. We may end up with some of the same witnesses, but we are going to endeavor to try to keep this as separate as possible for an obvious series of reasons, not the least of which is the board is being asked to make three different decisions and the
possibility that one or more of these decisions may be potentially contested down the road. Mr. Lanford. Good evening, Mr. Chairman. Uh, Peter Lanford appearing on behalf of the applicant. Uh, I understand the way you
want to proceed with this matter. I I do have a couple of witnesses that are basically overarching witnesses to all three applications. I don't think the board would want to hear the same testimony three times. Uh,
so I I would at least request that I present those witnesses as to the project, but they're going to have to be separated. They may not they may have to come up three times, but they're going to be have to be clearly separated between which application is which
because each one of these applications is different. It's not one big and you and I have lived through these one big application. It's a series of applications. The testimony can be taken all at once, but you're the board's
ultimately going to have to decide may end up breaking up some of this as it hears it based on what the their questions are and what the public has. And quite frankly, at the end of the day, we do need separate resolutions for each property because I think it's in
the best interest of both the the board and the applicant applicants uh that there are separate resolutions for the church and for the warehouse as well as a separate resolution for the site plan uh subdivision, I should say. Mr. Chairman, one other Is there anyone
here this evening who has been authorized to speak on behalf of a group of individuals here in the public either as legal counsel or as a designated spokesperson and I'm asking the question because if
you are obtaining that status that precludes other members of the public upon who you are representing from coming up and speaking either in a cross-examination situation or at the end of the application if there is no
one here representing a group of people we will move on. C can I add something at this point? I I was listening about the three witnesses that will be providing overarching testimony. My concern is that uh after
they provide their testimony, there may be issues that come up later which will require additional information from them. So I would want to be sure that those witnesses even after they testify will remain available through however
long this takes. I am sure that every witness that is here this evening that testifies if this matter gets carried to another hearing will be available at that next hearing. Okay. And hopefully there won't be a third.
Seeing none. All right. If I may then let me explain to the board and hopefully to the members of the public. Hold on sir. And you're going to need to state your name in full. Spell your last name.
Thank you. Uh Alexander Tran, Mr. Chairman. Uh good evening, dear board. Good evening. Uh uh may I respectfully raise procedural questions before the testimony begins? Can can we have his name, address, and
is is he an attorney or uh I speak on behalf of myself as member of the public. Uh my name is Alexander Tran. Then then the answer, sir, is no. Not at this point. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Okay. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
As you pointed out earlier, we are here tonight to present testimony on three separate applications. There is an application before this board to subdivide the parcel of land
that is currently owned by the church which consists of 32 acres. Uh that subdivision that we are seeking approval for is to create a 14.9 acre parcel which will be retained by the church and
a 17.7 acre parcel which will be used for the construction of the warehouse. The subdivision is a conforming subdivision. It meets all of the requirements of the zoning ordinance. Uh it is an as of right subdivision.
Um, we are also seeking two use variances. One use variance, excuse me, for the warehouse. Uh, warehouses, as the board probably knows the sorted history of this were
permitted uses in the BI zone. Uh, they were then removed from the BI zone. uh before this hearing may conclude they may be back in the BI zone but as we are sitting here tonight warehouses are not a permitted use in the zone. We are also
seeking a technical variance for a D2 variance for the church because when the church conveys off land the land they're going to convey to the warehouse, it is technically called an expansion of a non-conforming use because the church
right now is a non-conforming use in the BI zone. The church is on 32 acres. When if the subdivision is granted, the church will then be on 14 acres. So technically it's an expansion of the non-conforming use. If the property is smaller, how can it
be an expansion? Because the church was functioning techn even though it may was functioning on 32 acres. Now the same activities will be functioning on 14 acres. So technically on the 14 acres the potential use is
more intense. Okay. So that's how it's expanding. It's expanding because of its intensity. Correct. Okay. Lastly, we are here for preliminary and final site plan approvals for both the
church site and the warehouse. The church site has certain modifications which include uh reconfiguration of the parking and some storm water management. There are no structures being proposed on the church site. It's merely parking
and uh storm water management. We are also seeking preliminary or seeking preliminary and final site plan approval for the warehouse. Uh however, with both of these applications, we received staff reports
and in this staff reports, your engineer who's here this evening had some concerns that they needed more information regarding storm water management, which we are in the process of obtaining and providing. So since he does not have that all that information
at the end of the day, we would be requesting only a preliminary site plan approval for both of these applications and coming back for a final after we provide the storm water management to the engineer. Uh and I believe uh he is
in agreement with that process. I am though there may be other reasons for it not to be granted a final above and beyond the storm water management. Correct Mr. Mesi? Correct. Thank you.
Okay. Now with respect to this application uh this is this these I'm going to talk about all of them in general. All of these applications were presented to the Franklin Township Historic Commission.
Uh the historic commission conducted three hearings on these applications. Uh they reviewed the subdivision. They reviewed both site plans. They had requested some changes to the plans which we made. All three of those applications were approved. In addition,
the historic commission granted an approval for the demolition of the cultural center which is on the site where the warehouse is going to be constructed. Since the property is within 1,000 ft of the canal, you have to go to the historic commission before
you can get approval to demolish something. We went to the historic commission. That approval has been obtained. Wait, you mean historic commission or the DNR? We also have to go to No, the Franklin Township historic commission. Okay. We also all three applications and I
don't want to steal the thunder from our engineer. All three applications have been submitted to the DNR Canal Commission. They all have been reviewed by the DNR Canal Commission and they find no fault with the applications and they're just waiting for the municipal
approval and the county approval which are required before they can formally approve the application. But they have been reviewed and there is no issue with those applications. Mr. Lanford, I don't I don't want to leave the public with the wrong
assumption here. The demolition issue is not an issue before this board irrespective of where it exists. Correct. That is correct. Okay. So the granting of a demolition permit by the historic preservation
commission would not be an issue before this board irrespective of the application. Correct. This board has no jurisdiction over demolition. The Historic Preservation Commission deals with with all for a lack of a better phrase historic preservation.
The issue any approvals or any consents granted by the commission are not binding on this board. Correct. That is correct. So, anything the Historic Preservation Commission did
related either to the applications before this board or the demolition permit do not affect the board's hearing of this application in its totality except that the board has no jurisdiction over demolition.
That is correct. So if a demolition were to occur irrespective of any other application it is immaterial to this one. That is correct. Thank you. So then then whoever
owns the uh the cultural center uh regardless of what's going on with the applications, they can go in and and raise the and knock down the the cultural center. Correct. Well, they have to apply to for a demo
permit from the township, but once that permit is issued and they're entitled to it, they can knock it down. Okay, good. That's helpful. Okay. Uh lastly, um again trying to get through this so we can get the testimony
sort of boiled down. Uh in conjunction with this application, one of the sites is affected by Buckeye Pipeline. They are aware of the application. We have worked through them. They have no issues. Uh lastly, this board heard an application, I guess about a month ago,
called IDI, which is a warehouse on Davidson Avenue, which is just to the south of us. They're adjacent to us, except for Executive Drive, which is the road that's between the two properties. In that application, which this board approved, uh they recommended to the
township council that Executive Drive be vacated. uh we would our plans don't show that because the road has not been vacated but we have been in discussions with IDI we are in accord with the vacation of uh
executive drive and should this project be approved we would also apply and join in applying with IDI to the council for the vacation of that road and that is also important you'll hear testimony because if that road is vacated there are two variances that we are seeking
that will disappear here. They will no longer exist if that road is vacated. However, you have to apply for them now because the road has not been vacated. That is correct. But we don't vacate the road. The township does, the council. Okay. Any more than this board did not vacate
the road when they agreed to the IDI logistics application. Yeah. And I I think basically the same language was in the resolution of IDI which we which we are seeking. Uh having said all of that, I would like
to call Mr. Zean as my first witness. You want to run? Are we passing out paper? We sure are. Uh why don't we pass it out now? Yes. All right. what this is. We have a slide
presentation. Uh, and I know you have four TVs that you paid for, but sometimes having the paperwork in front of you makes it easier to see something. Uh, these are slides that really involve all three applications. So, I guess Mr. Bernstein, we're going to mark this as
A1 in each of the three applications when we get to them and probably subp parts of A1 as well since you know how much I like to do things in parts. Uh right. For the purposes of the record, the board has been provided other extra
copies, Mr. Bentley. Yeah, I have some more. Does anybody um to the extent members of the public may want them? They're going to be if I'll leave one on the podium. Yep. And if you want to put some in
somewhere, I'll put one over on the other side. We're going to mark this A1 for identification. And I'm assuming once we get a sworn witness, we will get an indication of what A1 plans on being.
Okay. Uh, Mr. Zean, can you state? Mr. Zean, this needs to be sworn in before you anything to Zean, would you raise your right hand, please? Testimony, you're about to give truth, all truth, and nothing but the truth. So, help your God. Yes.
State your full name, spell your last name for the record. indicate your credentials and by whom you are employed. Uh my name is I want to pull the mic a little closer to you. Move. Is this better? Yeah, there we go. Way better. All right. My name is Josh Zean. Ze M. I
am principal and chief and chief investment officer of creation. We are one of the applicants uh for uh Somerset Exchange, this project that we're talking about tonight. And Mr. Mr. Zean, your company has
contracted to purchase uh the 17 acres from the church should these applications be approved. That's correct. We've been working uh with the Ukrainian Orthodox Church for over two years on this project. I have a just a quick prepared remark if you don't mind. Is that okay if I do that?
Yeah, I I think in order to move the meeting along, I've asked my witnesses to prepare remarks because you don't want to hear me talk anyway. So, I'm not good at Q&A either. I am. I am, but I'd like to just All right. Okay. All right. Um, chairman and members of the zoning board, like I
said, my name is Josh Zean. I'm a partner here at Creation Equity. I just wanted to take an opportunity to briefly introduce myself and our company to you this evening. Uh, Creation is a real estate investment and development company. We have offices in Phoenix, Dallas, and Tampa. Our portfolio
includes 40 projects around the country and we focus almost exclusively on groundup development of logistics projects and retail and mixeduse projects. The project that we we will be discussing tonight will be our fourth in the New York New Jersey metropolitan area over the last 5 years. And I just
want to make this point unlike many of our development peers um we are passionate about architecture design and placemaking at all of our projects. And hopefully Luke, if you can slide down just to a couple of our recent example projects. Um, our logistics buildings do
not look like traditional warehouses. And I think that's important. In fact, I hate the word warehouses. We call them logistics facilities. Um, I want to highlight um our most recent project here in New Jersey. It's a project called Mlen 1, which is located in Newark. Uh, it's located along routes
one and nine immediately adjacent to Newark Liberty International Airport. We just completed this project earlier this year. So, if you've had a chance to drive by or fly in and out of New York airport, particularly Terminal A, maybe you've seen it. Um, our project here in in Franklin Township will be no different. We'll be bringing the same
first class architecture and design uh to our project here. We're excited to be here tonight in Franklin Township to discuss this project. We call it Somerset Exchange. This project, like I said, has been a collaboration between Creation and the Ukrainian Orthodox Church over the last two years. And as
you'll hear from Archbishop Anthony in a few moments, this project is transformative for their organization as they need to revitalize their campus and they desperately want to remain in your community for where they've been for the last 75 years. We've enjoyed working with your staff over the past several
months. We're thankful for their assistance, reviews, and comments that we as we fine-tuned our plans that we'll we are presenting to you tonight. I don't want to spend too much time talking about the specifics of our project or the applications before you. There will be others on our team that will be doing so, but I just want to
reiterate how excited we are to bring a creation project to Franklin Township. Your community has long been a focus area for us. We've spent many years searching for the right opportunity, and we feel this project uh will be a great addition will be will be a great will be a great
addition to your community. Its location at 287 and Davidson Avenue provides excellent access and visibility to potential corporate users without impacting any residential areas and will complement the surrounding businesses including the IDI project that will be developed immediately south of us. As
you'll hear from our architect, Somerset Exchange again will feature the same great architecture, landscaping, and placemaking that is hallmark of all creation projects. I'll now turn it back to Pete, but again, thank you for your time and consideration this evening. We're excited to be here and I'm available to answer any questions. Thank you. You're going to answer one of my
questions first. Sure. This document that's on the board and that was uh handed out to the board members was prepared by your company. Correct. And uh it includes photographs of uh your other facilities and accurately
represents the other facilities that you own. That that's correct. And then as we go into the document later, there are site plans and uh pictures of the church. Uh those were obtained by our by you from our site engineer and were incorporated
into the package. Is that correct? All correct. Okay. Thank you. Do we have a date on the package? Um this was prepared this week. I think it's the final version was September 16th. There's a date on the cover of September
18th. Is that Yeah, that's that just that's just to note the hearing tonight. Okay. Want to first the board? Uh I'm going to preempt Mr. Lanford for
just a second. Um do you have a tenant for this property or is this we building this on spec and figure you'll fill it? Uh we would plan to develop this on spec. We do not have a tenant at this time. Okay. Thanks.
Any other board questions? Uh just one question. Is this for uh one or more? Could it be one tenant? Could be could it be broken up into multiple tenants? Yes, the building is designed to be broken up into multiple tenants. The building's about 258,000 square feet and can be demised down to as small as 40 or
50,000 square foot spaces. We've actually designed uh multiple office entries uh to allow for the building to split. All right. Thank you. Okay, I got another question. Uh, the inside of the is this a one-story building? Correct. 40t tall.
Uh, 36 foot clear. So, I think we're 40t to top a roof. 40 or 42 feet top of roof. I would like I I would like Dan I would like our engineer and architect just to confirm. You can tell Mr. Lamp is champing at the bid as well. No, we have people give you that information.
Okay, good. All right. Just burning questions. All right. No. Any other questions? What kind of uh clientele are you hoping to get here, Mike? Um, our buildings appeal to a, you know, wide range of of
potential users. Uh, traditional logistics, distribution, and warehousing. Um, uh, this building's a little bit smaller for that use. So we envision, you know, 50 to 100,000T tenants that have some component of warehousing distribution, some component of light manufacturing,
some component of office or retail showroom. So that's really what this building is designed to do is break down to smaller tenants and and and sort of be a versatile uh warehouse space, if you will, if that makes sense. Anybody else?
M I want in the public. Okay. will now open to the public and let let's just make sure we understand the ground rules. This session is your opportunity to ask the witness questions
based on the testimony you heard. This is not the time to make a statement or tell us what you like or don't like. We're looking for questions for the witness. If you would like to ask any questions, you can start at the podium.
We need your name and address. Alexander Tran. My name address 1353 East 14th Street, Brooklyn, New York, 11230. Uh Mr. Chairman, uh as Mr. Zean has just
stated, the final version of this presentation has been uh produced on September 16th. The date on it says September 18th per New Jersey statute 4055D10B.
Any relevant documentation for the hearings should be presented to the public 10 days in advance at least. This documentation clearly was not present uh for the public presented and it does impact the decision of the board. Therefore, I respectfully request the matter to be carried to allow public
review. you want to uh address? Yes. The relevant parts of this exhibit, uh the pictures of the
church, the the the site plan of the warehouse are all colorized versions of what was filed with the township and is on public record. Uh the only thing that is here that is in addition to that uh
is some background information concerning the applicant and the applicant's business. Uh I don't think it go is germanine to the application itself and I think the board can accept and has in the past accepted exhibits on
the night of a hearing. Well, as I think I indicated when we mark the exhibit, the exhibit is marked for identification. It is not an evidence. I think we're going to have to see what other evidence comes in as to what what the impact of A1 is relative
to um I would also point out my recollection is a 4055D10B is it more addresses the issue of professional testimony i.e. engineering, planning, architecture, and the like. More than
with all due respect to Mr. Zean, a PR piece that is ostensively here to tell us why his company's project should ultimately be approved. No offense taken. Thank you. Next question. Next question is, um, has, well, it's
for the has the has Mr. Zean or or the people he represents uh have conducted a uh study with the local Ukrainian community on the relevance of building this warehouse uh given that the larger complex issue. It
has been just presented uh whether there the public has been has been asked on this. Mr. I'll say Mr. Lanford Mr. Zean testified as to a proposed application for the possibility and I
realize Mr. Lanford was a little ahead of himself in his opening that this had already been seemingly approved. It has not been far from approved but the answer is that's why the public is here to ask
questions regarding the application. It is not a public opinion situation. land use board applications, whether it's the zoning board, the planning board, or the land use board, is not based on what the the neighbors believe or think or feel.
It's based on what's provided to the board and meets the criteria of the municipal land use law. Has the applicant filed it's a fit of eat of service proving notice to all 200 foot owner 200 foot owners and the
agencies under 112 315. We have served all property owners within 200 feet. We also have published in the newspaper and we have provided proof of same to the township. It's on file with the township.
And just to clarify, the submission of this presentation uh will not be taken of the board given that the given that the public was not presented it uh prior to this day. I will advise the board that at this
time A1 has been provided for the purposes of a background of the proposed applicant relative to other projects they have done outside of the township. And I'm assuming Mr. Lanford has other witness who is who are going to testify
as to what's being produced or being proposed to be produced here. Thank you. That is correct. Thank you. Anyone else come forward? Um hello dear board. My name is Sitlana.
S Vi T L A N A Malovana M A L O V A N A 42 East 5th Street Brooklyn. Uh my question is the following. Uh if I'm not mistaken uh at the beginning like it was said that there is like no detailed
report about uh flooding and about like storm like ecosystem around and I think like the question about like the people like who live around the area is very important not like because of Ukrainian cultural center but because of the
flooding. uh I think that like this area is under like fluting risk and that's why it's very important if like the warehouse will do you have a question Lana yes so my question is okay my question is uh what about like the uh
detailed report about risk of flooding I will we have submitted a storm water report as part of our plan. It was reviewed by your engineer. Uh the
report was an extensive report. Uh it was also reviewed by the DRCC and the DEP and it was approved by and they found no issue with it. They haven't approved it yet because it's not ripe
for approval. But Mr. Maz Mass Mazi has asked for some additional information and we are in the process of getting it and providing it to him. But we have provided a storm water report and our engineer will testify as to his opinion
as to whether there are any storm water issues when he comes up to testify. All right, I'm I'm stepping in for a moment. His testimony was a basically a preliminary summary of the project. It was said that your questions are supposed to be
related to his testimony, okay, which was not storm water. So, we're getting off to a bad start here if we're going to start asking questions from all over left field. It was said at the very beginning, but I will I will wait for testimony. Okay. Thank you.
Okay. Next. Mola K O V A L E V uh 25 West Price Street, Lynden, New Jersey. I'm here just to ask this uh man, did you contact the right person? Uh
there's a big difference between churches and Ukrainian Orthodox Church. Hold on. Hold on. Artish, please. She has to check the mic, sir. Just hold on one second. We want to hear you. Okay.
Hello. Can Can we get his full name and address, please? 25 West Pri Street, Lynon, New Jersey. And your name, sir? Mola. K O V A L E V. Is that your last name?
K O V A L E V. I'm wondering did you contact the right people? Because in Ukrainian Orthodox Church the owners it's Parisians and board of trustees not the arts bishop Anthony.
Wait a second. We're starting, we're getting involved in things that the board has no jurisdiction or business. This gentleman presented testimony. Do you have questions concerning his testimony?
Yes. Then let's have them all you have. Yes. Did he contact the right people to decision makers? Let me under the municipal land use law, applicants are required
to submit 200 foot notice to those properties within 200 ft of the property in question who are taxpayers to the municipality or who are potential
who are taxexempt properties. the individual parishioners or the individual members of a house of worship irrespective of what the house of worship is whether it's Ukrainian or a
synagogue or a mosque are not the owners of record for purposes of providing the 200 foot notice as the law requires. It is simply that entity which is recognized by the municipality on the
tax records as the property and I put in the property owner. So if the notice went to a specific organization of which there are multiple members of the organization, the members of the
organization do not in and of themselves get a notice. It is only those entities designated by the municipality of which the applicant can rely upon who get the 200 ft notice. Okay. So,
uh board of trustees and um rep you know it's parians doesn't matter right it is the owner of record however that is designated on the tax roles of the township of Franklin. Okay, another question that they
recently changed jurisdiction. It was Ukrainian autoathol uh uh UAPC now it's up C. It's a different church and uh art bishop now it's like a Turkish jurisdiction.
So let's make clear you know it cannot be this mess. The application before they recently changed jurisdiction sir the application before this board was filed by the Ukrainian Orthodox Church of USA. Correct Mr. Lanford?
That's correct. That is the applicant of record. Whether they have changed their names or their entities is a separate issue that you can raise at a later point during these proceedings. But for purposes of Mr.
Zean's testimony. It doesn't address his testimony. Okay. Yes. This lady. Oh, this ladies. Stay right there. Hello.
doesn't work if you're very close. Yeah, you're close to it. Hello. Is it better? Can you guys hear me? Okay. No. Okay. Maybe I will just pick up. You just need to speak very closely.
Very closely. Like like Okay. Okay. Got it. Got it. Thank you. Um name and address, please. All right. So, my name is Olga Pilipovich, 15 Hold Court, Glenro, New Jersey. Um, I'm sorry. Uh, what is your name again?
What city was that? Uh, Glenn Rock. Oh, Glenn Rock. Okay. Uh, what is your name? Excuse me again. Uh, Josh. Um, Mr. Josh. Um, so I have a question about um proposed
sample. I'm not sure what this image was going to be. Uh when I look at this image, I see some sort of um almost um office building with a lot of um uh cars around it. But uh the proposal says that
this is a warehouse, right? So I think it will be fair to consider that uh that kind of vehicles that is going to be parked there. Is it is it true or not? We we will present testimony as to the
site plan which will show the car parking, truck parking, and how the property will be used. That will come with a later witness. Okay. So then um uh I'm not sure as a followup um since you already described the building and we're trying to imagine
it in our head, right? Um we would like to know how many tracks can be there parked at the same time and how is it going to disrupt uh the traffic? I don't know. I'm sorry to interrupt you. I don't know how how many times how many different ways to go through this.
That's not part of his testimony. Um what I was uh I heard saying over there, we have more witnesses that will be presenting testimony addressing things that you're asking questions about. But for this person, that that's not what he
testified to. Mr. Uh he presented that image as an evidence of what it might be like. Am I correct? What it might be like? Yes, we will present an image of what it will be like when we get to the architect.
Yeah. Mr. Chairman, can I make a suggestion? Can we have Mr. Lanford explain what what who you're going to be presenting and what they're going to talk about. That way I think members of the public might understand how to, you know, who to ask their questions of. Okay, maybe
that's a good idea. I I would be happy to, Mr. Chairman, Mr. Healey. Um, one one moment. I intend to call whenever we get to them, uh, Archbishop Anthony, uh, who maybe can put some of these other issues
to rest. I do have a site engineer, Mr. Miola from Langan Engineering, who prepared the site plan for both the church and the warehouse. He will testify as to what the warehouse facility will look like uh including the parking, lighting, drainage, etc. Uh he
will also testify as to the changes that will be made to the church fac uh lot. I also have Mr. Winger who is a licensed architect in the state of New Jersey who will describe the building both inside and outside uh that will be that is
being proposed to be constructed. Uh I also have a traffic consultant, Alan Lotheian, who will present traffic testimony. Uh and also a parking analysis as to the adequacy of parking. Finally, I have Mr. That's the person you're going to want to ask those the questions you're
asking. I have done one more question. So, uh let me let me finish. Let me finish. I got one more witness. I also have uh Sean Morant who is I'm sorry Moransky who is our planner who will testify as
to the variances that we are seeking. Okay. Uh my question is uh um Mr. Josh could you please explain why we are looking at this uh image if it's not representative of your project and what you're offering to the uh township.
That's a legitimate question. Um, this is representative of the of the warehouse. I call it logistics facility portion of the project. And I can let me just can I add a little clarity of what this image is. So this is the image of the front of the building that will be
facing on the north. It'll be facing it's the north side of the building facing the church property. That's the office front of the property. That's why there is all this glass. Those uh darker areas are office entries along the length of the building and that's where the car parking for the employees will
be. So that is a representative image of what we are proposing. Uh could you please tell us uh where the church is going to face to the right of this image or to the left? To the right. Uhhuh. At the level of the glass.
That's that's correct. Yes. Okay. Thank you. Yes. Uh, Yuri Walk uh 66 Cedar Grove Lake, Somerset, New Jersey. Sir, just speak right into the mic. Okay. So, we can hear you and you can you can pull it up. Short questions
how far away your project is from the St. Andrew Cemetery. I don't want to guess. We have our civil engineer that can testify to that. I don't want to throw out a number or two that may be inaccurate. It's across from the it's across the canal. Uh reason why I'm asking you because
this is unicom cemetery buried over 10,000 people half of them famous people and people coming not only from United States from all over the world just to memory for these people. So I know South New Jersey district attorney working now
restriction 1,000 ft from historical place. This is unicum historical place for Ukrainian community not only United States but all over the world. So if I want to know how far away this project
from the not even church from the St. Andrew the the engineer will testify to that. Thank you. Anyone else for this witness? Come on over. Is this a good volume?
Okay. You have name and address. Okay. Uh, my name is Jana Bernenko. V A R N I C H E N K O. Uh, and I live at 265 Maple Avenue, Denellan, New Jersey. Um so my question is about the location of
uh this warehouse. Um so as the witness said uh you were uh specifically interested in building in Frank Franklin Township. So I was wondering why Franklin Township and why specifically this plot of land? What attributes of this plot of land and Franklin Township
are like interest you and why did you choose to build here? Yeah, Franklin Township is an incredible community. It's very diverse. It's got a great labor base. It's very well located in the state of New Jersey with access to uh all the major freeways uh in the
area, the New Jersey Turnpike, I287. Um this site, so we've been, like I said, we've been looking around this area. We've actually worked with uh staff on a couple other projects that never got far, you know, this far along. But we've uh we've spent a lot of time
looking around Franklin Township. again because of its locationational attributes and its diverse population base. We just think it's a great opportunity to bring uh new uh logistics facilities uh to the market too. Um this site in particular um this site in
particular again I don't want to overstep uh where others may testify but the underlying zoning here is BI um and uh Davidson Avenue is is a business corridor. Um and again we started working with the Ukrainian Orthodox
Church over two years ago and this is really a collaboration between our two organizations. Um in fact you know um so so we never wanted to buy the entire piece of land and tear everything down and build a much larger building. That
was never our intention. Our intention was to uh subdivide the parcel um and and uh build a smaller building for for our for our company but ultimately provide the funds necessary to the Ukrainian Orthodox Church through a transaction for them to rehabilitate
their facilities which include um um a museum to be built museum and a uh seminary that's on site today. So I I again I'm overstepping uh Archbishop Anthony will testify to all this but I just want to give you some context into a lot of thought and planning has gone into this. Um again we've been working
on this for 2 years so I just wanted to provide that context. Okay. So you took into consideration the impact that your warehouse would have on the surrounding Ukrainian community. Correct. We have had extensive dialogue with the Ukrainian Orthodox Church on this project.
Okay. And you believe that the Ukrainian Orthodox Church, specifically the leadership you spoke with, is representative of the Ukrainian community at large that uses this church? Now, now, now you now you're be beyond the scope of the witness's testimony.
Okay. Okay. Thank you. Maybe another witness, but not this one. Any others? Then we'll close for the moment to the public and then move to the next witness. Bishop Anthony before you get
just a minute. Did we miss you? Juan. Not yet. Archbishop Mrs. Eman gets another name and address please. Doris sir.
S E R H E V. I just have a question. What is your first name and also what is your address? Uh 82 Castle Point Boulevard in Piscatoway, New Jersey. And your first name, ma'am? Doris. Thank you.
To Mr. Zim, stay close to the microphone. Uh have you noticed how many warehouses are on Davidson that are for lease? The wrong question. Yep. Oh, I'm sorry. This application
stands I'm just asking if there was a viability that's not appropriate for this witness. Actually, it's technically not appropriate as Mr. Lford will tell this board for this board which I might disagree with. But the fact is to this
witness, he has testified as to what his client is proposing. What you're what you're starting to say can come a lot later in the process. Perhaps the board re recognizes there are a lot of warehouses.
Thank you. Any you have to wait a minute. If you want to speak, come to the mic. If you want to speak, come up to the mic and give us your name and address.
I will be talking about this microphone. Excuse me. Name and address. How come this is the worst microphone, the only microphone that is public can use? Victor Vonenko, 11 Sherburn Street,
Some Somerset, New Jersey. Okay. How come you provided the worst microphone which only public is used can be used? I request you to replace the microphone to give the proper device which will be
heard when people talk into it. I'll pass that along. I am talking in in a sanitary for for the sanitary reason I cannot touch it with my lips and nobody should be touching with with the lips.
I request you to replace this device and only after that to continue this hearing. Anyone else wishes? This is a circus. Bagen Jasinski one up at Court Morgan from New Jersey. See what I mean? That's what he just
said. Bagdan Jasinski. Let let me just This gentleman proved that we can hear you and it just goes to everybody else if you speak up. We could hear this gentleman very clearly. So if you go to the microphone, you need to
speak up. But do you understand? I have to literally swallow the microphone. Touch it with my lips. Numb. Nothing. Nothing. Is that sanitary? I'm going to actually go step further. There's no air here. Look at me. Did we get your name and address?
I already did say it's Ban Jasinski, one opport Morganville, New Jersey. Okay. You have a question? Uh yes, I've had a question for Josh. Uh you said that you for about two years
working with a priest uh at Ukrainian church. Did you consider that for purpose of building your warehouse? You are displacing most of Ukrainian community. That place by us and I've been coming to this
church for about 30 years is known as Ukrainian Jerusalem. Have you have your company considered that? With all due respect, I don't think that's what the applications are uh before this board tonight. And I think
that that test that that question needs to be directed at Archbishop Anthony. No, no, no, no, no, no. from all the places in New Jersey, even in Franklin Township. Why specifically that one? I think he answered that question. For two years, you've been No, it was
your initiative. You've been working on it for two years. Why? I I believe the question was already answered. You don't mind to repeat it because I don't believe I've heard the answer. I I I have answered the question. Um I'll
I'm happy to answer it again. Uh Franklin Township is an incredible community for for new development. We've been looking in Franklin Township. Folks, could we please keep the chatter in the audience down for several I can hear you without the microphone. He's got a better microphone than that
one. No, I can hear people in the audience, sir, who have a microphone. We're talking. This this piece this piece of land is incredibly well located within your community. Uh we look for pieces of land
that are located close to major freeway systems that don't impact local residents, local homes. Um that's what this site, if we put up a map, would show. Uh its location on Davidson Avenue. It's very close to the freeways um 287. Uh and it's not close to any
nearby residential neighborhoods. So that is the major reason why we focused on it. And again, we've been working on it for two years and it's been a collaboration with the church. Okay. And to ethically to you it doesn't matter that you're misplacing people
right that have other purpings you uh next after bishop when the bishop goes up It's going to get Michael Worth Muller. W E R T H M U L L
E R 5 Pbrook Road, Jackson, New Jersey. Uh my question is you mentioned that you have no um prospective I guess I call them clients or current prospective tenants for the building. Is that correct? Yes, that's correct. when this building does take place, um,
how long would you be able to fund it without having clients or prospective people in there? I mean, we're prepared to fund it for as long as it takes to uh, lease the lease the building up. So, I mean, in some cases, we we've we've developed many of these around the country. In some cases,
the lease up is very quick, a handful of months or less. Sometimes we pre-lease. And then there are other projects unfortunately that have taken much longer time to lease that have gone on 12 months, 18 months. And we we it's not a question. We will we we pay our taxes, we pay our insurance, we pay our debt
service. That's just part of our business. And how many employees would be working in this if it was at full or relatively full capacity? Since there's no tenant, that question can't be answered. That's a very difficult question to answer on a speculative building. Does
it depends on um what size tenants, how many tenants, so on so forth. I figured there'd be an estimate with zoning space and all that. So, okay. Is it okay? That'll be it. Thank you. Okay. [Music] My name is uh Alexander Lazerka L Zur Ka
uh 2536 Bush Street, East Meadow, New York. And my question is so so as you as you mentioned you you you've worked extensively in in this in the uh real estate industry for for a number of years. Uh can you speak to the the
amount of leverage that you hold and your liquidity position to actually complete this project to to completion? Objection. Not germanine to the testimony. So, uh, in your but in your in your testimony, you you you mentioned that,
um, the the the proposed project will be built to completion. Is that correct? Yes. So, can you comment a bit on the the your your capability to actually bring this to completion? And have you had any
previous projects as you showed earlier? You show some examples of previously completed projects. Uh have you had any bankruptcies or projects that failed? Not not relevant to I think this discussion. I'll defer to Pete on that. But I can tell you unequivocally the
answer is no to that question. We have completed every single project that we have started since I have been at creation which has been five years which is b which is when the company started. Thank you. Anybody else?
All right. Now we are closed to the public for this witness. Next witness. You want a time break time? Five minutes. Take a five minute break. First official witness. Right.
Mr. Chairman, I'd like to call as my next witness, Mr. Miola. Testimony you're about to give is truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth to help you guide. Yes. State your full name. Spell your last name for the record by whom you're employed and your credentials. Daniel
Miola, M I O L A, employed by Langan Engineering and Environmental Services LLC. Address is 300 Kimble Drive, Parcipony, New Jersey 07054. Uh I'm a licensed civil engineer in the
state of New Jersey. My license is in good standing. I testified before dozens of boards throughout the state uh and have been accepted as a witness. We accept them. Have you been here before? I've been before the Franklin Township Planning Board, not the zoning board.
Well, welcome. Thank you, Mr. Miola. Uh you prepared the subdivision plan that is before the board this evening as well as the site plans that are going to be heard uh as we get further down the road.
Uh yes, my my firm Langen Engineering uh prepared both the subdivision and the site plans under your direction. Correct. That's correct. Okay. Uh, can you please describe to the board the property that is being subdivided in its current state?
Uh, sure. I'm going to uh pull up uh the subdivision plat that was submitted in connection with the the subdivision application. We're going to mark this A2. Thank you. If it was already submitted, you still want to mark it?
I want to mark all the exhibits that are being put before the board. Okay. as for testimony. Mr. Miola, can you just briefly indicate who the author of this is and the date? Uh yes. Uh the author is Lang and Engineering. It was prepared by a
professional uh licensed surveyor within Langan Engineering. Uh gentleman by the name of Tom Reeves and the date and the date on it. The the date is October 23rd, 2024. last
revised January 23rd, 2025. Thank you. Um just to to explain uh the subdivision of the property that's proposed uh for simplicity sake uh I'm going to call
north to the right. Uh and so Davidson Avenue is in the north south direction. East Avenue is in the east west direction. Uh really it's a it's a bit skewed but again for simplicity sake that's how I will refer to northsoutheast and west. Um the tract uh
as a whole is block is known as block 469 lot 1.06 and it is a total of 32.6 acres. So we have one lot that is 32.6 6 acres. Uh,
and we are proposing to subdivide it into two lots. Uh, the first lot, which I'm is the the northerly lot. Uh, it will have frontage on both Eastston Avenue and Davidson Avenue. Uh, that is
um designated on this plan as proposed lot 1.09 and that will be approximately 14.9 acres. Uh the second lot, which I'm going to refer to as the southern lot, uh is designated on the plan as proposed lot
1.08. Uh and that will be 17.7 acres. Uh that lot will have frontage on Davidson Avenue. Um in general, this the subdivision
component of this project. Uh these two lots are fully confir conforming with all bulk requirements including lot area, lot frontage, building setbacks, lot coverage and floor area ratio as
well as impervious coverage. Uh Mr. Miola, the lot in question, the southerntherly lot also has frontage on uh another street, does it not? Yes, it does. uh ex executive drive uh also borders a southern part of that
south lot. Okay. So that so and and that for the purpose of discussion this evening that's the proposed warehouse lot. That's correct. Okay. And and that lot is 17.7 acres. Do
you know what the minimum lot size is in the zone? The minimum lot size is two acres. Okay. So, both lots exceed the minimum lot size of the zone. Yes. What is the frontage requirements of the zone? 150 ft.
Okay. Do both proposed lots meet the lot frontage requirements on East Avenue, Davidson Avenue, and Executive Drive? Yes. Okay. And right now, there are structures on both lots. Are they not?
Are there not? Uh yes, that's correct. And when the lot is subdivided and can you show the board where the subdivision line is? Uh sure. Uh to the east in the east west direction here. Um it's this uh this
line that that transverses across the site and and once the lots are subdivided uh and assuming the demolition takes place of the one structure the remaining structures on the church site do they meet the sideyard setback requirements?
Yes. So there are no variances in that are being created by this subdivision. Correct. Thank you. I have no further questions. Any board questions?
Well, well, that sort of last little part there caught me by surprise. Um, I thought that we needed a D2 variance, at least for the warehouse side of this thing. No, the warehouse is a D1 and the church
side is a D2. And we will present I'm talking about bulk variances. I'll see you missed a word there. Okay, there we go. So now I understand. Good. Thank you. Any other questions? Uh could you address the staff reports,
please? Yes. I'm I'm in receipt of uh staff reports uh from both the board planner and the board engineer and and agree to address uh all remaining comments
uh with respect to the subdivision component uh of this application you can comply with everything they're asking. That's correct. For for the record, it was actually the report of the TRC dated July 8th, 2025. Yes. Okay. And it's a two-page report,
three-page report, and then some photographs. Correct. Correct. And the review comments are there's seven of them. We can comply with them. Yes. And they don't in any way alter or change what the board is looking at this evening. Correct. Thank you.
Any other questions? Just in terms of that uh report just for item number two, there was a question on there about whether there's going to be a access easement granted between this the subdivision. Uh speak on that a little bit. There will be and that's part of the site plan testimony just so we have it on record for this
question for this report. Thank you. Anybody else? Anything else? That's all from this witness. Okay. Again, will open to the public if you have questions to ask this witness
based on his testimony concerning the subdivision of the property only. Please come forward. Alexander Tran 1353 East 14th Street, Brooklyn, New York. You hear him very well. So the witness
has just stated that they are seeking a D1 use variance and also D2. Um but if the D1 use variance because the warehouses are not permitted in the B one zone, please explain the special reasons and how this site is
particularly suited for a warehouse under Medici versus we're not discussing the warehouse. We're discussing the subdivision. All all the applica all the testimony for this witness at this time is the
subdivision of the existing lot into two lots. What will be on proposed on that lot? We haven't gotten to that point yet. So, and we asked Mr. Lanford to go through the different people that are will be providing testimony. There will
be extensive testimony on the site plan applications. There will also be testimony on the use variances and that testimony will be provided by the by their planner. That's the person to ask that question to. Thank you.
Any other questions concerning the subdivision testimony? Come on. I guess it's a clarification. Sorry. Matian 158. We have your name and address. 15 Yates Avenue, South River, New Jersey.
Can you spell your last name, sir, for the record? M A T V I Y I S H Y N. Thank you very much. No problem. Um, so it's a clarification question. So, even though we're discussing right now the uh the division of the the division of the parcels, um
would the approval part of this whole process be at the same time? So like one, two, and three at the end. The reason I'm asking is because what if the division is approved, but let's say the warehouses or the other issues don't
that would leave a divided property and how would then the church deal with the divided parcels. Would that create other ramifications that could be problematic? You're you're you're anticipating answers to questions that have not been asked.
Well, let let me Eric, let me answer that. that that is a relevant question in my opinion to this subdivision and staff in in the staff reports we basically did bring that up. You there could be a scenario where the applicant gets a you approved for the subdivision
files the subdivision and then the warehouse either doesn't get approved or doesn't move forward and then you have two lots that are that are now existing. So, as was testified, each of those lots complies, at least as far as the bulk
requirements, meeting setbacks and coverages and stuff like that. One of the staff comments was basically under that scenario, there would have to be, you know, easements between the properties. So, for example, as we know,
the properties you you you can drive across the property. You know, there may be utilities that cross the property. Um I don't know if there's a need for other easements like that, but under those scenarios, you know, one of the things that the applicant will have to address
is those easements necessary so that the site would continue to function frankly as it does now, notwithstanding the fact that there's an invisible lot line now that exists, right? So it's it's that is something that will be addressed as part of the normal subscript.
Well, as part of the subdivision, the township would require those easements because it's it it has to go it has to happen at the time the subdivision is filed so those lots can continue to function. To follow up, the change in ownership is contingent on approval of all these uh all these
uh I don't think we've had testimony to that yet. Well, okay, understood. Um but the reality is the ownership can't change without the subdivision being granted. Nor the other two. So, I know I'm putting the carp or the horse, but also
this is a very relevant procedural question just with the subdivision. That's Thank you. Okay. Thank you. Anyone else? Alexander Tan, uh 1353 14th Street, Brooklyn, New York. Just to clarify, uh if the subdivision was to proceed, what
what occurs to the current existing structures that are in place and does the subdivision line go through them? No, go ahead, Dan. That the subdivision line does not go through any structures uh as I testified to earlier. All the required setbacks from
buildings uh are being adhered to with the introduction of this subdivision line. Uh so the line is really just uh you know dividing the property. Um nothing else. Current building subdivision line would not go through
any current buildings that are currently correct. Thank you. Any others? Come on. 15 hold, New Jersey. P Y L Y P O V Y V Y C. Uh I would like to request to put
this presentation somewhere where we as a public can access it. You are discussing something we cannot see from the far um so to ask questions. It's not an easy job and understanding Paul will uh what the engineer architect I'm sorry
engineer engineer tells us about uh is very not not accessible to everyone. So, it's nice that you do have a copy here. Unfortunately, we do not have a copy. The cop the ma'am, I believe, and
correct me if I'm wrong, Mr. Healey and Miss Woodbury, all copies of all documents submitted to the board are online on the board's on the board's website. Is that correct? Yes, they've been on the on there for a few months now and will continue to be. So, this plan is online on your website
right now, right? Yes. Okay. Can you just maybe walk us and then explain in a lay terms about the subdivisions and what does the change of uh a subdivision will have amen so as a result for the
cultural center. There are no physical changes happening on the site. We're we're merely taking one tax lot and subdividing it into two. Uh and so that that's that's the subdivision that's uh being applied for.
No physical changes. Uh just the introduction of of this imaginary line across the site to by to split this site up from one lot to two lots. So if there is no change, why would someone not make a division?
I just want to understand that there there are changes proposed that'll come later in this. The answer is that is if the board were to approve the site plan for the warehouse, the one lot that was is being created which Mr. Miola indicated was
the southerntherly lot would then be conveyed to creation for the construction of the warehouse. If for some reason the warehouse is not approved uh or the board denies the application, we have now created two lots. One lot has the cultural center on
it. One lot will have the remaining uh uh church, the the chapel, the uh seminary, the library, the museum museum on the site. And there there will
be two lots, one with the uh cultural center and the other lot with the remaining structures which would still be owned by the church. So but the the zoning will change, right? So the if the consequence uh uh request is not approved but the zoning
has changed. So that means what the cultural center will be in zoning? No, zoning does not change. It might be in its on its own lot but the zoning does not the zoning remains the same. Okay. Okay. So the zoning is the same.
Uh it's only the property lot will be divided into Uhhuh. got it. Okay. Thank you. Anybody else? I'm done sweet 16 door drive now New Jersey I have a
question how far existing building should be from the division line because on the other line it's like if you will divide the lot into two parts in one part will be a like right now right it's a cultural center on the other line it's
a library and like museum so how far the the required sideyard setback is 10 there. There's a required sideyard setback which is 10 ft. 10 ft. Yes. That's that's the setback. That's not
there's a setback. So it's like from the division line it's should be 10 ft from like to to the existing buildings. Mr. Mr. Miola, the culture the cultural center if it were to remain, how far is it located from
the proposed property line? I'm not even asking about cultural center. Cultural center is a little bit further from the devotion. I'll try. I think I know what you're asking, but I got to get both sides. It's on the order of 60 ft. Okay. And then when the property line is
if the subdivision is granted, the first building on the church property is the chapel. Correct. Yes. And how far is the chapel from the property line? Uh approximately
if if uh I could zoom in here. It's on your zoning table. Uh okay. the I believe it's 35 ft. Like how how can you see from this map? Like how can you see that it's 35 ft?
But like you're saying that it should be more than 10 ft, right? Yes. And it and it is because of this surveyed map. Yeah. So if they will build they will build a like warehouse over there. There should be like it will be in the middle
of this slot and then on the other side is a chapel and the library and it's almost there is no parking over there like ma'am you are way beyond the testimony of the witness for tonight. That may be
a question to come further but the testimony of Mr. Miola is limited to if he wants to put the subdivision line back up on the map, back up on the screen. That's what we're talking about here. The one you just had up.
This is There's going to be additional testimony, extensive testimony from the engineer and the architect describing the physical plan that's proposed for the warehouse. Okay. Thank you. There's no traffic engineer, too.
Yes, there is. Yeah, he'll talk about parking. Uh, is there anybody else who has not spoken who wants to get up first? Let's start with that. Seeing none, sir. Last last crack.
Thank you. Alexander Teran, 1353 Street, Brooklyn, New York. Looking at the subdivision map, the line uh in between the existing cultural center and the uh seminary building seems to be going through the border of the of the entryway to the parking lot that that
that goes for the seminary and and for the existing cultural center. Uh now given that the plan is for that for that lot to be sold uh and for a new owner to be on that lot. How would the how how
does this subdivision uh include any any thought about how people would enter the the the seminary? They would have to enter through another another owner's property. That will be presented during site plan testimony. As I indicated in my opening, we have reconfigured the parking around
the chapel and on the church lot. Uh there are access easements. You'll hear all of that in the site plan testimony. Thank you. But as of right now, just to clarify, the existing roadways have not been included in the calculus for this
subdivision. The existing property is being sought to be subdivided. You're assuming I I'll I'll use a line lawyers like to use. You're assuming facts, not in evidence. Uh there is no fact that there will not
be access to the property. It's all part and parcel as Mr. Lanford has indicated the application. You can't take this per se in a vacuum. Thank you for clarifying. But I seek the further clarification on the subdivision
borderline again. So we are right now not taking into consideration any existing roadways or anything and we're just subdividing it and and if let's say the process wasn't fully complete and subdivision was thing that was would be approved it would remain as such that
that lot would if the that the access point to the uh seminary and the cultural center would be divided so the seminary could not be accessed. Well f first of all again you're assuming facts not evidence a I believe you were here when Mr. Healey indicated
the requirements of access easements of which this would be one of them that the applicant would have to provide the township to make sure that there is access but again folks we are way ahead of where we need to be.
Thank you for clarification. Well, anybody else then this is going to be the last witness tonight. Last question tonight. uh 15 hold court Glen Rock New Jersey. Um I'm not jumping to the frozen part.
I'm just trying to understand uh um assume the scenario that uh the subdivision proposal passes and uh we are u as a result have one of the buildings that uh is not accessible
right. um what uh the site that asks for the sub division uh uh to happen for the split to happen they said that those two um those proposals are all separate but it seems to be I mean that uh if the lot
is subdivided uh something needs to be done with uh the building right so shouldn't be both questions brought together uh both proposals and discussed together at at some point at that is I believe
the applicant's intention but the applications were filed in the manner in which they were and this was part of it. Mhm. My concern is that uh we are not taking in consideration um the arguments for the consecutive
request in deciding this one but it seems like it cannot stand on its own. Board hasn't decided anything. So again, you're again assuming things, ladies and gentlemen, that is are not before the board and the board hasn't made a
determination. The applicant is within its rights to present an application in any manner it wishes to present. But ultimately, it's up to the board to put the pieces of the puzzle, so to speak, together and make the determination to
what pieces fit and what pieces don't. So then the question if the consequent demolition request is not is not passed does it mean that the subdivision is also invalid? No. The answer is you're again I I
rarely trot out this line but I've taught it out three times tonight. You're assuming facts not in evidence. The fact is that nothing's been decided. The applicant has pushed testimony on regarding a proposed subdivision which fits into a total application they are making which ultimately this board is
going to review and decide what it will or will not accept and how it will or will not accept it. And you're already three steps ahead of where we are. Just for the sake of this discussion, you've heard the testimony.
consider it when we get to the next set of witnesses. Mr. Lanford's engineer, Mr. Lanford's architect, Mr. Lanford's traffic engineer, Mr. Lanford's planner. And then I think you will see a fuller picture of what the application is. And
at that point, many of these questions either still will need to be answered or may be answered, but you're you're too far ahead. Mhm. So my last question not for now. Uh you are actually saying that
the subdivision is not going to be considered before we will understand what happens with um the line touching another building. Is that correct? Line touching another building. There there is no line touching another building but and the applications
is it very close to it. There are setback requirements. Mr. Miola indicated what the setback requirements are. All of the structures that exist today exceed the setback requirements of the zone. So assuming the only thing that happens
is that we ask for the subdivision and nothing else, the subdivision would stand on its own merits if the board felt that our testimony demonstrated that the the two lots stand on their own. Can the property on the right be
used without crossing in a property on the left? You're what? Not not an issue before the board and not part of the not part of the testimony of the witness. Thank you. Any others? Again related to the testimony of the witness folks.
Uh Yuri Walk 66 Cedar Grove Lane Somerset, New Jersey. Uh my question remain how far away is this project from the speaker of St. Andrew? Why don't you move the mic up just a little? How far away is this project from
cemetery of St. Andrew? This property borders the cemetery of St. Andrews. So basically the the the lot as it exists today uh abuts the cemetery lot.
So, and and and by subdividing it and and breaking that that 33 acre lot into two smaller lots, it they will remain remain the same distance from the seminary. They'll each
lot will remain I think he's asking the cemetery, not the seminary. Cemetery. St. Andrew Cemetery. Yes. So, how far away is this future? the these lots abut the cemetery like 100 ft, 50, 200 ft.
They're neighboring lots. That's what he means by a butts. They're adjacent. They're right next to each other. Right next to each other. So my question is once again I want to remind you in the some like some certain days thousand
thousand people coming to this cemetery over 10,000 Ukrainian was buried there and there is no parking no access to cemetery so my question is if you build warehouse near Ireland on cemetery for
us all Ukrainian community not only United states all over the world. This is like Arlington. Do you understand that? Speak this that is yeah that's not part of the subdivision application. We will present testimony on the operation of the
warehouse the the remaining operation of the uh church property and the relationship to uh the church and the cemetery which is on a different lot actually in a different municipality.
Anyone else? Okay, then we'll close this portion of the meeting. And uh Mr. Chairman, let me just make a quick suggestion to the public. Since future
uh testimony is going to be related to the physical development of the project, the plans again are on the township website. Our website is franklinwpnj.org. Go to committees and commissions and
under zoning board of adjustment there's an area for application materials. So all of the plans, all the traffic studies, the storm water reports, they're all on there for your review. So if you want to frame some questions for the architect or the engineer, for the
traffic engineer, etc., you can do that by reviewing those materials in advance. And there are if there are updates, they will also be placed on the website, will they not, Mr. Healey? Yes. As we get new materials, if they submit were to submit new updated site
plans, etc., they would go up or if the board professionals submitted additional material as well. Correct. Well, yeah, the the professional reports are included in the uh uh the agenda. It's on a separate portion of the
website, but that's also available. Mr. Chairman, uh my next witness will probably take a while. It probably does not make sense to start the next witness at 9:39 when you quit at 10:00. So, I think we
probably should adjourn now. I have a couple suggestions. Uh perhaps the next meeting should be at the board of education site, which is the larger building in case a larger crowd comes and and the questioner's microphone
there is a lot better. Um, and perhaps we can start it a little earlier so maybe that we can get through the bulk of the testimony the next meeting. Okay. What's our what's our date that the facilities available?
Christine said uh the 6th of November. Yeah. Um, it's going to be carried to November 6. They also asked if they could start at 7:00 if that's agreeable. School building available. I already checked with her. 7 is when
the building's available. I didn't tell there's a time, but I asked her if the building would be available November 6th. Um, I usually go at 7:00 to set up or to be there, and there's never anybody else there. So, I assume I can check with Miss Miss Clark,
but I assume that it would be available at 7:00 should the board want to get an extra half hour so it can help the people hear entire testimony. Any objections from any board members? Starting at seven.
Okay. Seven it is. And it's Do you want me to pull the board members that are not here? Well, we're looking we're looking for a motion this evening to carry this meeting to Thursday, November the 6, 2025 at 700 p.m. or as soon thereafter
as the matter may be heard at the board of education offices at 2301 Route 27 in Somerset, New Jersey. without further notice. And I'll explain that in a minute. Is there a second? I can't make the motion. Second.
Someone want to make the motion? I move that we uh uh we adjourn uh this uh meeting tonight and that we reconvene on November 6th at uh 700 p.m. at the Board of Education offices, which I
don't know the address of except it's Route 27. What's the full address? 2301 Route 27 in Somerset. 2301 Route 27 in Somerset, New Jersey. We have a second.
I'll second it. All in favor? I opposed. Before everybody gets up and starts to move, let me explain what without further notice means. There will be no 200 foot notices. There will be no
additional notices in the newspaper. The only notice will be on the website indicating when the meeting is the time the agenda gets up. So if you've received notices for tonight's meeting from the applicant, you will not be getting another one. If you are going to
look in the newspaper looking for when this is going to be carried to, it will not be there. This is the notice, ladies and gentlemen. It is permitted under the municipal land use law to carry an application without further notice in accordance with the law. So this is your
notice. The next meeting on this application will be Thursday, November the 6, 2025 at 700 p.m. or soon thereafter the board can hear the matter at the board of education offices at the address that Vice Chairman Shepard and
Secretary Woodbury indicated. Other question [Music] Jasinski um on Apatute Court Alber New Jersey what if there's a state of an emergency or something happens unforeseen how would we then know
website that was just a website Mr. Shepherd beat me to it website. Sorry. Thank you. Yes. Okay. Okay. Is there a motion to adjurnn? I move that we adjourn for tonight.
Second. All in favor? I opposed. Motion carried. Meeting adjourned.