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This is a zoning board meeting of June 4th, 2026 in accordance with the open public meetings act 1975 chapter 231. Adequate notice of this regular meeting of the zoning board of the township of Franklin's been provided. Board members,

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applicant professionals, and members of the public, please speak directly into microphones so that our recording secretary can properly process minutes. Applicants and professionals, please fill out the sheet on the table when you've completed your testimony. Thank

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you. And would you please call the role? >> Cheryl Bethia here. Richard Brokanic >> here. Verdas here. >> Alan Rich here. >> Gary Rosenthal here. Robert Sheepard, Michael Dardy >> here. >> Kunalia,

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and Chairman Thomas >> here. Uh, okay. Next on the agenda, minutes regular meeting April 16th. >> I'll move. >> Is there a second?

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>> Second. >> Cheryl, >> yes. >> Richard Proanic, >> yes. >> Bassim Bdas, >> yes. Gary Rosenthal, >> yes. >> Michael Dhy, >> yes. >> Chairman Thomas, >> yes. Uh, we have a resolution. Somerset

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Bible Baptist Church, ZBA 25001. >> Alan Rich, Gary Rosenthal, and Michael Dy cannot vote. >> Need a motion. >> I'll move. >> Second. >> Second. >> Cheryl, >> yes. >> Richard Rokanic,

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>> yes. >> Berdas, >> yes. >> Robert Uh, Robert Thomas. >> Yes. >> Excuse me. >> Next is Wash King Somerset ZBA 2525 resolution. Need a

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>> I'll move that >> motion. Okay. And second. >> I'll second. Shut. >> Yes. >> Richard Proanic. >> Yes. >> Vasim Verdas. >> Yes. >> Chairman Thomas. >> Yes. And moving further on in the

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agenda, we have no uh discussion agenda here. All three listed hearings should be heard tonight. And first up would be Art Heinrich ZBA 20 6004

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D1 use variance in which the applicant seeks approval to convert the second floor from storage space to living space at 6 Hawthorne Drive Somerset lot 126 lot 194 in the HBO zone. And do we have

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the applicant? Would you come forward? And are you representing yourself or do you have someone? >> Okay. First thing we can do is swear you >> swear you in. Mr. Hinrich, >> can you raise your right hand, please?

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Do you swear or affirm the testimony you're about to give before this board is truth to all truth and nothing but truth? >> Can you just uh repeat your name and spell your last name for the record, please? >> Hinrich H. speaking to the mic. >> Yeah.

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>> Hinrich H I N R I C. >> Thank you. >> It's not on the mic on >> Art Hinrich. H E I N R I C H. >> Okay. You want to give us a brief overview what you're what you're trying

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what you want to do and why? >> Yeah. Uh so as uh you mentioned I'm uh seeking uh variance approval to convert the second floor of this uh commercial

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building one-story commercial two stories with the attic from storage space to living space like a studio apartment to include a bathroom and a kitchen. Uh the ordinance uh for Hamilton City Business

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District uh permits uh mixed use uh except uh for those properties that front Hamilton Street. Mine fronts Hawthorne Drive which is like 50 ft from Hamilton Street just

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around the corner from Hawthorne Drive. Um this uh this uh project would uh advance the purpose of zoning and general welfare as uh it increases

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safety. It would increase safety and a refu a refusal of this project would impose an undue hardship on me. Um home home occupation would increase the safety and be incidental and accessory

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and shall not interfere with the principal character of the building. There will be no appreciable increase in the vehicular traffic. The overall footprint of the building remains unchanged and there is there

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exists sufficient parking to to to satisfy the mixed use. Okay. I think it's also uh relevant for the board to know u

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there because most people weren't here for the original application. The reason this room hasn't been developed before or became a a storage area was that that was a condition of approval. Right. >> Correct.

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>> Right, Mark? >> Yes. what I recall the application um uh was in involved in an addition to the to the prop to the house. Um I I believe that the you know the fir the first

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floor was used as uh the doctor's office. I believe the reason for the restriction for not having second floor office was related to parking. I I can only assume that's the reason. If both floors were used, they probably would exceed the parking. Um I think they have

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a total of uh eight parking spaces in the back. Um so for that reason um the board imposed a condition that the first floor they you allow they the board granted the variance to allow the first floor to be used for office medical

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office but restricted the second floor to storage only. >> Okay. Yeah. The initial approval were was for seven parking lots, but when when they uh blacked up the the parking, they told

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me that the uh the parking surface yields to eight parking slots. So, I said, "Go ahead, put it in." >> Okay. Has anything changed since then? I mean, what what >> Nothing changed. Well, by that also I

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mean what would have what would initiate us reversing the condition or giving you relief from that? And >> there's there's no shower in the building and uh you know I'm working

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around the house and I would like to take a shower. So there's no shower in the building. There was a shower initially, but because uh this my original building which was single family office professional did not have

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a handicapped bathroom. So you know a handicap bathroom was installed taking the tub out and the shower out. So at this point uh you know I I would

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have liked to uh install a shower somewhere. I don't want to install it in the basement and there's sufficient area upstairs and there's a 9- ft ceiling upstairs. So, uh it yields uh to to such a project.

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>> Well, what's the this is going to be used for an apartment? >> Yes, studio apartment. >> And that who's going to be residing? >> Well, I will it's either me or my family.

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>> Okay. Uh any board questions? Will there be a kitchen there? >> Yes. >> And the apartment would have access to the doctor's office. Correct. >> Well, it has a separate entrance, but also shares the office. Yes.

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>> And any of the um to turn this into a an apartment, Mr. He this means that construction plans have to be filed and inspections have to be done. >> Yeah, he would have to

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>> Yeah, I mean there would be applicable codes uh relative to that building, electrical, plumbing, whatever is necessary to convert that storage space into a residence. >> Correct. >> Now, if you don't need what happens to what's in the storage

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space? Is there room for that somewhere else or what? What? >> Yes, in the basement. I'll move everything to the basement or out on the deck. I I built a a deck, an accessory deck next to the building and I had no issues with that. Um,

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so there's space and it's basically wood which is recyclable. Um, it's going to be thrown out because I'm going to need the space. >> All right. Any other board questions? Uh, we'll open to the public. Is there

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anyone that'd like to ask the applicant a question about the application or make a comment? Nobody. So, we'll close. Do we have do we touch all the bases

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or >> Yeah. Yeah. and we don't uh we can do without a an official planning report and go with our PRC

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touch on discretion. >> Okay, just check get that okay on that. Is there anybody who has any questions or who would like to offer a motion? I would like to make a motion we approve

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ZBA 26-00004. Need a second. Sherovia, >> yes. >> Richard Panic, >> yes. >> Vim Verdas, >> yes. >> Alan Rich, >> yes. >> Gary Rosenthal, >> yes. >> Mike Dy, >> yes. >> Chairman Thomas,

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>> yes. >> Okay, you are all done. >> Thank you so much. Thank you everybody. Next up would be let me find it here.

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The glacier christristiana refugeio ZVA 26 00001 carried from uh May 21st. conditional use variance and site plan which the applicant proposes to utilize

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the existing two-story frame building as a house of worship at 680 Easton Avenue Somerset lot 322 lots 1 through9 in the OP zone okay go ahead >> uh good evening chairman and board members uh once again my name is John

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Duca the law firm Salvo Shock I am here again tonight uh representing the applicant in Glacia Christristiano Refugeio Incorporated This is application ZBA26 uh 00001.

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The property is located at 680 Easton Avenue, block 322, lots 1 through 7 and lot 8. It's eight parcels total. Uh we are located in the OP office professional zone. Uh we were here two weeks ago. Hopefully uh most of the

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board uh recalls that presentation. Uh we're here back tonight to address a couple of uh pointed concerns uh that were that were raised by the board. But just to refresh your recollection and go back through um a little bit of what was talked about last time, it's about a

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halfacre site. There's an existing two-story building uh formerly used as a medical office. It's been vacant for about 10 years. Uh the the lot is accessed from Gerard Avenue. This property is situated right at the uh

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intersection of Eastston and Gerard. Um the applicant proposes to use the existing building as a house of worship. This will be a a Christian church. Uh there's no building addition proposed. Uh there is interior work proposed uh to

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to renovate the the interior floors as a prayer hall, an altar and stage, a baptismal area and then also a kitchen and and dining room fel fellowship area and offices. The the prayer hall and th those other areas will be on two

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separate floors. Uh we spoke about the maximum occupancy for the prayer hall as being 64 occupants. Um, and then we also talked about there being um no uh simultaneous use uh between those two spaces. And we'll clarify that a little

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bit uh through testimony tonight um about how sometimes the children during church services will go into that other area, but there won't be two programs going on where there's church services and then the other area is used for something not connected to those church

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services. Um, we also mentioned at the previous hearing that the applicant proposes to mill and repave the existing driveway. They're going to restripe it. It'll have 23 parking spaces with two ADA accessible parking spaces. Uh, to do all this, we need a number of uh

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variances. This is the the primary relief we're seeking is a D3 uh conditional use variance. Uh that's because houses of worship are considered uh permitted conditional uses in the OP zone. Uh but we don't meet all

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those conditions. Namely, uh we don't meet um some of the the setback requirements and we don't meet uh the the buffering uh requirements. So uh and then we're also seeking a a 31 space

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deficiency parking variance. That's because given the total occupancy of the building which we never intend to meet uh 54 spaces are are required. We were submitting that the maximum uh occupancy of the worship hall is only 64 where 22

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spaces are required and we are providing the 23. Now the board last time did have concerns about how parking would work. What if more members come? How would that work? And through testimonies tonight, we're we're going to address uh what the church has come up with to to address to overcome overcome those

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concerns. Uh when we were here last time, you heard um the testimony o of six witness six witnesses. You heard Ingred Blanco. You heard Cadmill Feliz. Those were two fact witnesses, members of the church. Uh you also heard from our professional engineer, Ron Saddowski. Uh you heard from Roocci Dar,

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our architect. Architect, excuse me. You also heard from Elizabeth Dolan, our traffic expert, and then finally, you heard from Kevin O'Brien, our professional planner. Uh, tonight I intend to present the testimony of two witnesses. Uh, Cadmill Feliz is is back.

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He'll clarify most of uh the fact and operational testimony and then Kevin O'Brien uh our professional planner will speak to um some of some of the u additional buffering that that we're proposing. Unfortunately, Mr. Ron Saddowski who did prepare that plan. Uh

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it was not available. Uh but uh we worked closely with Mr. Sidowski and Kevin O'Brien is very familiar with the plan and and can speak to uh some of the technical aspects and why uh the these added elements to the plan satisfy the statutory criteria for the variance

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relief that we're seeking. Uh I also want to highlight that there were five exhibits uh uh included in the record and entered into evidence in this matter. Um, they were exhibits A1 through A5. The first being an aerial view and and photo of the property. The

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second being our site plan uh sheet S1. That was the cover sheet. Uh A3 was site plan sheet S2. That's the site improvement plan. A4 was the architectural exhibit page one. And A5 was the AR architectural exhibit page

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two. Uh we made some additional uh submissions uh which I hope um made it made it to the board members. Um I know that uh the board secretary was accommodating and allowing us to um and the board was accommodating and allowing us to submit some of those things uh in

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a tighter time frame uh than is typical because of this two-week turnaround. Uh but those additional exhibits included the planning memo of Kevin O'Brien. Uh they als it also included a resolution adopted by the board of directors of the

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church. Uh it included um a a a car pooling and transportation plan for the church. And finally it included a revised site plan which uh provides for the planting of additional trees which uh we will get to through fact

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testimony. Um I don't have uh anything further in terms of background or housekeeping. I'll just note that uh this matter was carried without notice as mentioned at the last meeting. Uh so uh the applicant would submit the board does have retains jurisdiction to hear

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this matter unless the board has any housekeeping matters or legal questions for me. I'd love for my first witness to come up and be sworn in to testify. >> I don't think we have any anything. So go ahead. >> Okay. >> Come on, >> sir. If you can raise your right hand, please.

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>> Yes. Do you swear or affirm the testimony you're about to give before this board is truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? >> Yes. >> Can you um just state your name and spell your last name for the record, please? >> My full name is Cadmiel Feliz. My last

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name is spelled F E L I Z. >> Thank you. >> Now, Mi, Mr. Feliz, what is your relationship with the church? Um I serve at the church um as an elder um and I serve on the board directors um and also assist

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with uh operations at the church. >> Okay. Were you present for uh our previous hearing before the board on May 21st? >> Yes. >> Okay. And what is your purp what's the purpose of your testimony this evening? The purpose of my testimony this evening um is to clarify uh previous testimony

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that I gave and also to um give some answers to some of the concerns that the board expressed at the last meeting um with some of the plans that that the church has come up with to address them. Um primary concerns of the board were um occupational and and and parking demand

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for the property and the buffering. >> Okay. And uh I should have mentioned this in the open in my opening. I I I in unintentionally omitted it. One one of the additional um exhibits we we provided was a full full member list. So uh Mr. Feliz, your your organization

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provided that full member list. >> That is correct. >> And and how how many individuals total were on the list? >> Um 80 individuals, 60 of which are adults and 20 children. >> So there was a little bit of uh confusion at our previous hearing as the board might recall. uh we were kind of

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articulating a range of membership between 60 and 80. So uh the that clarifies that that number was really accounting for 60 adults and 20 children. Is that correct? >> That is correct. >> Okay. Did that list also include the addresses for each member?

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>> Yes, that list also included the addresses for the members. >> Okay. And why why did the church include the addresses? Um, we included the addresses um to help us identify uh the the the families and the households that uh live together and also those people

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that live close by to each other to see who can go to church services together in one vehicle. >> Okay. Now, the the the limited occupancy of the church or of the prayer hall is only 64, but your member list is 80.

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Does that mean that 80 people will cram into that 64 person space? >> Uh, no. We don't intend to to um cram the 80 people inside the space. Um, the plan is to split the services um and have two services. That way we'll never go above that 64 person threshold.

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>> Okay, great. So, how is the church going going to achieve that? At the last um hearing you testified that there's only one Sunday service from 5 to 7:00 p.m. >> Uh yeah. So the church uh uh adopted a

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resolution where as soon as operations would start at the 680 Eastn property, we would immediately commence with two services um thereby splitting attendance effectively by half. >> Okay. And what are the uh two Sunday service times as adopted in that board

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resolution? Yes, as adopted in the resolution, um the new Sunday service times will be the first one would be in the morning from 10:00 a.m. to noon and the second one would be from 5:00 p.m. to 7:00 p.m. in the evening. >> And why specifically did the church make that change?

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>> Uh we specifically made that change in order to address the board's concern on on attendance. um so that there's no situation where we have um an excess capacity, an excess amount of people at the church and we're never never above that that 64 person threshold.

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>> So by staggering uh the two services going from one to two services that's going to limit the amount of attendees at each service. Correct. >> That is correct. >> And it's also going to limit the number of vehicles parked in the parking lot at each service. Correct. >> That is correct.

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>> Okay. Um, and you can confirm that that decision was approved by the church's board of directors? >> Yes. Uh, the the uh resolution was approved um the Sunday before last. >> Okay. And you're a member of the board of directors that he's testified, correct? >> That is correct. >> All right. Um, and will the church

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leadership monitor the two services going forward for attendance and making sure that each member goes to their assigned service? >> Yes, absolutely. um the church leadership as well as the church itself um is a tightlyknit community and the church leadership is uh really committed

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to ensuring that this operational plan is followed um and that um people are going to their assigned services. Exactly how many individuals, adults and children, are assigned to attend the morning service at 10 a.m.? >> Uh, 45 people are assigned to attend the

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morning service um from 10:00 a.m. to noon and 38 people are assigned to attend the evening service from 5:00 to 7:00. >> Okay. And does that 45 people include the pastor and anybody uh assisting the pastor in the church service? >> That is correct.

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>> Okay. Uh, and then how many people are assigned to attend the evening service from 5:00 to 7:00 p.m.? >> Uh, from 5:00 to 7:00 p.m. it would be 38 individuals. >> And again, that 38 number that includes the pastor and anybody else helping in the service? >> That is correct.

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>> Okay. So now if you add 45 and 38, the total is 83. Does that mean that the church is 83 members? >> No. Uh so the reason why when you add the numbers it's 83 it's because three members of uh of the congregation would be going to both services and that would

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be the pastor the pastor's wife and and their daughter. >> Okay. >> Y >> So just to reiterate what's the total number of current members on the church's member list? >> Um 80 80 individuals um counting 60 members uh which would be the adults.

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>> So and there'll be 45 individuals at the first service and 30 at the second service. Correct. uh 45 in the first service and then 30 38 >> and that's below the 64 occupancy limit. >> Correct. Yes. >> All right. Thank you. Um now the church

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has also prepared a uh transportation and carpool p plan. Is that right? >> That is correct. >> Okay. Now at this point I'm going to uh share my screen so that we can take a look at that.

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>> Mr. Duka, why don't we mark it? Uh, I know you said that the last exhibit was A5, so this is A6. >> Yes. Thank you. >> Okay. So, Mr. Pheliz, can you confirm uh

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exactly what this document is? >> Yes. So, this document for the board's uh reference is the car pooling and transportation plan um that the church uh plans on implementing um day one at operations at the new property. >> Okay. And this is a three-page document.

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>> Uh that is correct. >> Okay. So, I'm going to go go to page one. Uh can you just walk me through the information we see on page one? >> Yeah. So, this page affirms uh the 60 members. Um >> and that's 60 adult members. Sorry to interrupt. >> Correct. Yeah, that's 60 adult members.

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Um, and it also plans for a carpool plan that would would create the parking demand for each service at nine vehicles. >> Okay. So, if we go to page two, uh I see it says uh service one at the top. It lists the time. So, explain to me

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exactly what information is being conveyed on this page. >> Yeah. So here we have um the individuals that will be attending um the morning service for the church. And then within each box you have uh the car that they would be being transported in. Um in in

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in orange you're going to see the pastor's vehicle. Um this vehicle you'll see will be on both pages of this document since they'll be attending both services. And then the rest shows the members that would be attending um those services and and and exactly what car

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they'd be bucketed into. >> Okay. And each of these drivers is willing and able to carpool with each of these individuals. >> Uh no. So we have designated uh carpool leaders with a star next to their name.

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And these are the individuals that volunteered and are willing to be responsible for the transportation of their carpool group. Okay. And and they've confirmed that they're willing and able to do this. >> Absolutely. Yes. >> Okay. So, let's move on to page three of

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this exhibit. So, what do we see on this page? So, similar to the first page here, you have the breakdown of the individuals that would be attending the Sunday service, the second Sunday service from 5:00 to 7:00 p.m. Um, and again, as I mentioned, the uh orange box

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is refers to the uh individuals that will be returning um to the second service, which is the pastoral family, and the rest are the individuals that would be attending uh the regular congregants in their each vehicle. >> Okay. Okay. So, if I go back up to uh

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service one, I see up in the right hand corner, it indicates 45 individuals. So, this this plan lists 45 individuals among the nine cars. >> Correct. That includes all the adults and the children. >> Okay. And if I go to uh the second

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service here, I see up in the right hand corner, it lists 38 individuals. So, all 38 of those individuals are listed among these nine cars. >> That is correct. So, it's the church's intention that there'll only be nine cars parked in the parking lot during each service. >> Yes, that is the intention of the

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church. >> And meanwhile, you'll be providing 23 available parking spaces. >> Yes, we'll be providing 23 available parking spaces. Um, and the parking demand is expected to be nine. >> Okay. So, what happens if one of these individuals uh, you know, can't make the

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morning service and they they decide uh, you know, I want to go to the other service. How would that work out? Yeah, of course we can't control the individual actions of everybody. Um, so in case that there's an unexpected situation where someone can't make a carpool, we would encourage that person

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to seek out somebody else that's a carpool leader and maybe jump in on their carpool. If that's not a possibility, then we would encourage them to um get an Uber ride or a taxi ride to the church. And if that's not not a possibility and they need to use their vehicle, we would permit it um if there's a if there's a situation that

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they have and we would feel comfortable because you know we have some flexibility there since there'll be 14 parking spaces that should be empty according to our plan. >> Okay. Now just for the sake of um the completeness of the record I I do want to backtrack uh just a bit. Um what's

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the document uh that we have displayed on the screen right now? >> That would be our full member list for the church. >> Okay. So, uh, I'm seeing it it lists it lists names, it lists addresses. I see a marcation for adults and or child. Correct. >> That is correct.

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>> And then if we scroll all the way to the bottom, can you remind me what the total number is for each? >> Yes. So, there will be 60 adults in total and 20 children in total. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Let's mark the uh member list as an exhibit as well. That' be P uh A7.

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>> Thank you. And uh we're going to mark uh one more exhibit in a moment. Uh again just for the sake of the completeness of the record um Mr. Fleece can you tell me what document we have displaying on the screen now? >> Yes. Here we have the resolution that was adopted by the board of directors of

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Eglesia Cristiano Rafuho um formally uh uh accepting and planning for the split of services for Sunday at the new property. >> Okay. So, here we have uh a resolution where the church is committing officially to having two Sunday

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services. Um, as I mentioned, the first would be at 10:00 a.m. to noon and the second from 5:00 p.m. to 7:00 p.m. >> And this occurred at a meeting um uh remind me when. >> Yeah, correct. This would this would be the meeting that happened um the Sunday

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before last. >> Okay. >> Y >> and it'll be A8. >> A8. Thank you. All right. I'm going to briefly stop sharing my screen. Okay. So, why is this uh carpool plan practical for this congregation?

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>> Um th this carpool plan is practical um because we are bucketing um the cars by family and um and households. So basically the reason why we had the uh member list with the addresses is because we're looking at families that come together to church anyway and then

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and then we're looking at individuals that live close by to those families and then we're pairing them in the same car. So it would make it easy for for the for for the carpool to take place because these individuals are those that live close by together. And because the you you've been able to consolidate so many

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members into so few cars, if you have some unexpected attendees, you won't run into any issues with either occupancy or parking space. >> Correct. Yes. >> Okay. So, just remind me um actually strike that.

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So um moving on to a little bit of a different area of uh your testimony. Um at the last uh at the last hearing we had discussed that there would never be uh a use of the prayer hall and the the

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other area including which includes the dining hall, the kitchen and the fellowship area and offices. Um but that's not completely accurate. So tell me the circumstances um during services how and why that other area would be

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used. >> Yes. Um so let's say that um families come to church and they and they have their kids that that obviously come to church with them and accompany them to church. Um since children um need a different level of education that they

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might not be able to relate to a minister speaking on on on the on the on the stage, we would have um religious educators escort them to the dining room area where they would receive child focused worship and ch and and religious education for the children. But that

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that would only be children that come with their parents. So within that 45 figure and the 38 figure, those would be the children that would be um participating in that in that in that activity. >> So it's not a situation where you have typical Sunday services and people sign

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up for Sunday school that are separate and apart from those services. >> No, that would not be the case. >> Okay. Um so this will never cause the the total number of people attending Sunday service to exceed that 64 mark. >> That is correct. >> Okay. And that's because you've you've

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factored all these children who would go into that other area into your plan. >> Correct. Yes. >> Okay. >> This would be something that would be practically connected with uh the Sunday service. >> Okay. And part of the reason um we're making this distinction for the board is

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because we want to avoid a scenario uh where we made a a inaccurate uh technically inaccurate representation to the board and then a condition is imposed on the church that would not allow them to use those two spaces at the same time. uh frustrating this

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intention where uh children get children child focused uh faith uh faith education whereas the adults will get adult focused faith education. Correct. >> Correct. Yes. >> Okay. Um

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so another um another change that you made to the proposal here involves uh the the vegetation buffer around the property. Correct. >> Yes. Correct. >> Okay. And what what's your understanding of that revision? >> Uh my understanding that the board um

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one of the issues of the board was uh the lack of a of a buffer or screen around the property. Um, and we received a a revised plan from from Ron Saddowski that that addresses that concern. >> Okay. And what what did he add to the to

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the plan exactly? >> Uh, Ron suggested a buffer that would be made up of evergreen trees around the property that we would be uh planting. >> Okay. And do you understand that um your professional planner Kevin O'Brien will be able to address that revision in more detail? >> Yes, I understand.

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>> Okay. And why why exactly is the church proposing this additional vegetation buffer? >> Um it it the purpose of the the purpose of the buffer is to kind of create a screen around the property um uh for our neighbors. Um I understand that's that's the purpose of of the buffer.

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>> Okay. So to summarize uh your testimony in the steps that the church church took to to address um the board's concerns, the two primary concern or I should say three primary concerns the board had was uh the limit on occupancy. >> Yes. >> The the limit on parking.

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>> Yes. >> And the vegetation buffer. >> Correct. >> And to address those concerns, you've uh provided a full member list. >> Correct. uh you have instituted or you you've instituted two Sunday services, >> correct? >> And established a transportation and

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carpool plan for the whole congregation. >> Correct. >> Uh and so that addresses the occupancy and the parking. And then for the vegetation buffer issue, you're proposing uh a significant planting of evergreen trees. >> That is correct. >> Okay. Um let me see if I have any more questions

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for you. I I don't have any further questions for uh Mr. Feliz. Um unless the board does. >> Okay. I'm sure there might be some board questions. I just have a couple comments. I think you did the one single biggest thing

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that can help make this work efficiently by committing to two services. And I also want to compliment you. Yeah, you arranged the car pooling and the two services in such a way that

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a little flexibility one way or the other in terms of numbers is not going to throw the whole thing under the bus. All right. uh the I have a few thoughts about the the

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vegetation when when you look at the aerial view the vegetation or the buffer actually looks like it might that's that's existing on the rear of it looks like it might be okay but when I visited there

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this week a few times in the rear of the property half of the buffer half of the vegetation uh in by the where the house is that's behind you is basically worthless. It's when you get to ground level

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there's there's nothing there to block anything. The other side of it, the other half of it is there's much more of a wooded area. I'd almost be happy uh if you just put up a solid fence,

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but I'm not looking to impose or try impose the conditions, but I suggest a fence actually on both sides because you're you have a challenge when you start dealing with that property. First

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of all, if we go over there right now tonight, you're going to find a dozen cars parked there. on the weekends and in the evenings. Some of them even have flat tires, one of them there today.

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The parking lot and the buffering, the the vegetation buffering, and this is not your fault. I'm not implying that. Uh what I am saying is that you you're going to be in a

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position where you have to change the behavior of some of your neighbors. Uh the parking lot's a garbage dump. If you look there there's all kinds of refues. There's even a a piece of a of a fender

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or a car hood. All comes from being abandoned, I guess, or not being used. I don't I know that you will take care of getting the people out of there that don't belong there. The the only issue I have and you can't control it, I don't

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think is I watch some of those people park, they get out and they walk home. Where are they going to move their cars to which creates a little bit of an issue on Gerard Street because it is

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very narrow. Uh I I want to say I commend you for taking the steps that you have because I think the use can work. But I really did have concerns that you were actually starting

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at the at your capacity. I mean by splitting the services and and even with the car pools you give yourself time to have some moderate growth and and that's going to happen if the you know the

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building turns out the way you want it to. So th that those are my feelings on that. We can discuss the buffering later. And I know we made uh some comments last week about the uh putting some uh landscaping and

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evergreens and everything there. But it's clear that people just walk through from one from Hillrest to Gerard or what it's a it's almost a public throughway throughway there. And I I don't know you

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might be if you might not just be better as I mentioned with a solid fence and uh have the parking lot enclosed. But >> I I I I don't want to testify on on behalf of my client, but I I will say in the discussions I had with my client, uh

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we did we did go through the possibility of offense um without really doing some due diligence and homework on on the expense there. Uh, I did caution my client on a fence just because, you

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know, they're renovating this building and biting off all that expense. though to to add the fence as well. Maybe maybe it's it's within their budget, but um that's something that I just don't think they have done the homework on that they're prepared to propose today. But they certainly have the ambition of

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putting a fence in and that is the intention down the line because it's not just about uh buffering uh for the sake of the neighbors. It's also buffering for the sake of the church. And as you mentioned, you know, uh trespass and people walking in and out as they're not supposed to. Um, and I I appreciate uh

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you pointing out, chairman, that a lot of the issues are things that are not necessarily within uh my client's control perhaps just yet. Uh, but I'm confident that when they do take uh full possession control and then start to beautify uh the property, you know,

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repave the the parking lot and then there's more regular activity uh that they'll be able to monitor uh who comes onto the property, who's parking there, who's leaving this refuge and cleaning it up. If there's a car that's parked there, it should be towed. If it's not supposed to be there, and um just I

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think just paving paving the uh parking lot will go a long way to to making it look nicer and less of a an attractive nuisance, so to speak. >> I I I'm not, as I said before, I'm not assigning blame or responsibility to your client for for what exists there at this point.

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But I just need they need to recognize that you've got a a number of bad habits that have to be changed. Habits on the part of other people. Uh and it's probably all related to the building not being

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used for as long as it has been. U I didn't mean to monopolize that conversation. So any other board questions or comments? Okay. Here, >> if if there's not, can I just go back to to one it while while I have Mr. uh

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Feliz here? And you did bring up um the the the vegetation where where it's stronger and where it's not. Um Mr. Feliz, do you recognize this document? >> Uh yes. >> Is is this the site plan that Mr. Saddowski revised? >> That is correct.

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>> Okay. So, can we mark this as A9? >> A9. Yes. >> Okay. And uh just for the sake of the record, I'll also note that the date of the last revision on here uh indicates uh May 25th, 2026. And uh I can also disclose that the the

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only revision to the plan uh are these additional tree plantings. So uh Mr. Chairman, if I'm not mistaken, the area that you mentioned was a bit sparse. Uh is is this this back area of the parking lot? It's the It's the back of the

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parking lot from about from about the middle of the parking lot going toward Hillrest. >> Yeah. So So that's where the the majority of the proposed tree plantings are are placed on on the plan. And uh if it's appropriate to make it even more dense or stagger these in a more uh

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aggressive manner, then that's where the the trees will be be concentrated. But in terms of solving this issue for the sake of this application, that's what what my client is proposing. I I'm not going to try and impose anything in here. I And and at the risk again of being inappropriate.

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I I'm beginning to think that the buffering is needed more for the church's benefit than it is for the neighbor's benefit. >> All right. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> All good. >> Yep. >> Thank you, board. >> All right. I would ask that my uh next

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witness and last witness, uh Mr. Kevin O'Brien, our professional planner, be invited up and sworn in to testify. >> Mr. O'Brien, how are you, sir? >> Very well. I'm glad you're back. >> Uh, do you swear or affirm the testimony

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you're about to give before this board is the truth, all the truth, and nothing but the truth? >> I do. >> Uh, if you can just repeat your name and spell your last name. >> Kevin O'Brien. O B R I N. still a licensed professional planner. My license is in good standing. I am

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>> We're fine with it. You know, it's been a thousand times now, but >> I'm happy to hear you're still in good standing in the last two weeks. >> I I am indeed. >> All right. >> Bob Shepard's phone call did not get through in time. >> All right, Mr. O'Brien, uh you you did

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prepare a planning memo uh in advance of our uh appearance here tonight. Correct? >> I did indeed. >> Okay. Can you just um uh inform us what's in in the memo and then also articulate a little bit about how the applicant's revisions to the plan uh

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changed any of your uh opinions or or planning testimony? >> Uh there we go. >> Thought it was at the kids table for a moment. >> Yes, of course, Mr. Duca. I think you've seen the seriousness in which the applicant uh took the board's

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comments from the last meeting. A lot of thought was given immediately after that board meeting to your suggestions and concerns and the main areas as uh has been pointed out uh included the overcapacity of the building, the lack

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of parking and an insufficient buffer. The church went to a great deal of effort, as you saw from the prior exhibits, of gathering a census of all the folks in the church, putting them into car

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pools, assigning them specific vehicles, and getting it down to nine cars per service for each of the two services that are proposed on Sunday. So, we're going from the one service at which we

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were going to have about 60 people. Um, there may have been up to 80 bodies, but the 20 of the kids were going to be downstairs, but I think the board's concerns were that that would max out if more people showed up or if everybody

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showed up. So, the applicant has certainly addressed that. They've come up with that census. They've come up with the assigned car poolool list. And now it's intended that over half of the 23 space parking lot is going to be

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empty. As Mr. Feliz pointed out, there's always going to be circumstances. Somebody may or may not show up. Somebody may be running late, maybe an illness in the family. They may have to go to work directly afterwards, but

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that's foreseeable. That's always going to be a couple of people. But with nine cars in the lot every every service and let's just say two, three folks who just don't fit the norm that particular day, there's still plenty of room in that

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lot. There are 30 plantings, 30 mature trees on the property, but as the chair has pointed out, they're mature, so they're high. So there's not a lot of buffer at eye level. Uh the applicant, Mr. Saddow and Mr.

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Saddowski have created a site plan which you have on the board uh which shows uh an additional 25 plantings. The 25 plantings will come and come in at 6 to 7 feet high creating an

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immediate buffer. So I think that the proposed changes are significant. I believe that they addressed the concerns of the board as expressed in our last hearing and I believe that based upon all the

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testimony at the last hearing, the testimony from Mr. fleece this evening. I believe that this board continues to meet the burden approved for a D3 use variance for a conditional use which we meet

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which we don't meet a couple of the conditions of the of the uh of the ordinance and I believe that this v this application can be granted without substantial detriment to the public good and without substantial impairment of

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the zone plan and the zoning ordinance. Mr. Duca, do you have any questions? >> I do not have any further questions for you, Mr. O'Brien. Mr. Chairman, >> from the board, >> these trees, are they evergreen? >> Evergreen trees? >> They are ever the proposed ones are

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evergreen. The existing or deciduous or they're seasonal. >> And anyone, if there are no questions, we'll open to the public. If there are any questions from the public or comments, then we'll close. Anything

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you want to say? Um I I don't have anything in in summation. Um I do Was there there anyone from the public? >> We have a lot of people here. So I just wasn't sure if there was anyone from the public that wanted to >> opinions >> speak. There were some opinions I think.

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Yeah. >> Okay. >> Hello. My name is Meline. Um I'm a current member of Christina Fuio. Um I just wanted to comment about the positive uh uh the positive

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positive effect the church has over my life. Um my whole family attends. Um they're not here, but I'm here representing them. And essentially the whole church is my whole family. I do love and respect every single one of them. And I hope the board does uh pass

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the the proposed and yeah, thank you. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Good evening board. Um thank you for the opportunity to be able to speak before you. Um, I would also like to share that this congregation genuinely does care

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about people and helping the community. Um, they have helped several families and encouragement um and in mentorship in so many different areas. Uh, personally for me, I have been affected by this church in regards to like the music program. I've been able to um

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learn how to play the piano and the drums and I actively serve within the worship team. So, I definitely have seen the the positive impact that this church has and I know that we will be able to bring that to the Franklin community. So, I do encourage the board to be able

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to um uh to be able to accept this proposal. Thank you. >> Okay. Thank you. Good evening board. My name is Alexis Portterero. Um I did want to say I do believe that um the church um

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it's it would be a positive addition to the location as well as a respectful neighbor. Um from my personal experience um we do currently have a um healthy and positive relationship with our current neighbors. Um and I do encourage the

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board as well to um be able to approve this application so that the church continues serving the community. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Okay. Now we will close the public. Anything you want to

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>> ju just a very quick summation. Um I the board heard the operational testimony uh last last hearing. They saw the uh architectural uh exhibits and the the the architectural testimony and the traffic testimony. Uh the board raised

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legitimate concerns about occupancy, parking, and the and the buffer. Uh admittedly, the the occupancy and the parking were were the key here. Um, when we accepted or requested to be carried to to June 4th, I was very skeptical that my client would come up with

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something that uh would satisfy uh the board's concerns. And I uh was really impressed and I'm proud of my client for the seriousness and the work they put in to address those concerns by putting together the member list uh by establishing uh this carpool plan and

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most impactfully uh staggering from one service to two services uh in the morning and the evening. And if this church continues to grow, they have enough space in the schedule to add a third service if it becomes necessary. So, uh, with that, I'll, uh, submit to the board and just request your approval tonight. Thank you.

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>> Okay. Do we need anything? >> Just one suggestion. Um, chairman, you had made the, you know, you had the discussion about whether there should should be a fence or um, evergreen trees. Um, the applicant hasn't priced out a fence, and it seemed to me like at

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least, you know, you, Mr. chairman weren't necessarily I don't know if you had a preference one way or the other or the board. So, I guess my suggestion would be they're proposing this uh row of evergreen trees. If the applicant was to decide

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that they would prefer a 6ft high fence, maybe that's more effective and cost effective for them. Perhaps you could leave that up to them to decide whether they want to do the evergreens or the fence. If >> that's that's fine with me one or the other signs on to that.

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>> Anything else? >> Not going to stop people from cutting through the property, but a fence will. >> Right. >> Anybody? >> Okay, we're looking for a motion. Okay. I make a motion we approve ZBA

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26-00001 with Okay. And that of course is subject to all of the uh u new suggestions and information that's been offered tonight with the three

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services and the car pooling uh and the choice of offense or evergreens, whichever you think works out better for you. Uh and the staff reports were all of them were agreed to last meeting.

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>> That's correct. >> Okay. So, we should be good. And we need a second. >> I'll second. >> Cher, excuse me. Terrellia. >> Yes. >> Richard Brokanic. >> Yes.

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>> Bassim Bdas. Alan Rich. >> Yes. >> Gary Rosenthal. Um, I'd like to congratulate this applicant for uh uh hearing us at

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the last meeting and uh and tonight going over all the items. Um, I'm going to leave it up to them if if they decide to put the trees or or the

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fence, whichever works for them. But I do want to congratulate the applicant level. >> Chairman Thomas, >> I'm Ford. I want to say also I I appreciate and I know the board

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appreciates this probably one of the highest levels of cooperation, collaboration that we've gotten from an applicant in a very very long time. And I've been here for a long time. So, uh, good luck with it. and uh we'll see what

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happens. >> Thank you. >> Okay. >> Well done. >> Now, we're going to go and try and get you air conditioning for that church. All right. Because the

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uh next application is PSEG ZBA 2603 preliminary final major site plan with CND variances. is seeking permission for proposed improvements to the site. >> How you doing?

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>> At 160 South Middleish Road 135 Dmer Road, Somerset block 84.03, lots 2.02 2.10 in the zone agricultural in the R40.

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I don't think I can sit with you guys. >> You want to sit at the end and put the witness >> going to say put the witnesses in the middle of us. >> Okay, you got it. >> Particularly from a a religious institution, >> I guess they're not usually.

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Okay. Trying to find that way in trouble. >> I know. They got their church. >> Anytime you want to start. You're familiar with being here, so go right ahead. >> Yeah, it's a new table. Uh, for the

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record, I'm Glenn Kees. Excuse the mic. >> For the record, I'm Glenn Kees of the firm of Weiner Law Group. I'm here on behalf of Public Service Electric and Gas. It is nice to be back. As the chairman referenced, I was your attorney many, many years ago.

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>> Is this working? >> Oh, boy. >> All right. So, we've promised you air conditioning, and I'll promise you I will not be a nightclub singer with this mic. I'm here on behalf of Public Service Electric and Gas on the Bennett

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Lane substation. If you look at your packet and you look at my notebook, you can see it's pretty thick. It's really not as difficult or as complicated as this would all indicate. What we are trying to do with

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this substation is modernize it because we have equipment there that is nearing if not passing its useful life, its shelf life. So we are going to replace a whole bunch

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of equipment. That aside, there are issues now because the grid and the interplay of this substation is such that at times it approaches 100%

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capacity for the grid. So that on a hot day, it doesn't seem like it's as hot today as it'll be in August, but on a hot day, we've been close to 100% capacity. And that's just not acceptable. So, we're

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doing two things, two main things. We're going to modernize the existing equipment because it's been there for a long time. And then, and then the second thing that we're going to do is add an additional feeder line in that ties to

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the grid and the network so that we have additional capacity there. So, that in fact, not only does the air conditioning stay on, but also the lights In order to uh put that information

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before you uh unlike the church having brought its entire choir, I have brought the Mormon Tabernacle public service group. All of these people are mine. You have no fear though because they will not all

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be testifying. >> I'm going to That was an answer to prayer. Uh we have I have my project manager. I have a licensed civil engineer.

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I have a landscape architect who's also an engineer. And finally, I have a professional planner. I can finish this up in probably no more than about 30 to 45 minutes, depending upon how you want

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to run the hearing. Mr. chairman, we could just put the witnesses up, tell you the complete story, and then have them all available for questions if you would like to do it that way. That might speed things along. If you want to question each witness as they come up, that's fine, too. It's entirely up to

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you as the chair. I'd like to start out with just having you do the presentation and us ask the questions, but I'm not going to tell somebody they can't jump in if something stands out for a question on

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an individual witness. >> That's why you're the chairman. >> We can at least start. >> That's fine. And we'll try and be thorough enough that we will have answered hopefully the questions there are burning in your heads. Uh, couple of procedural things. I think I have to

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invoke, and I'm looking at council now. I think I have to invoke the rule of necessity because my suspicion is that everyone in this room is a customer of public service electric and gas. If you are, that technically means everybody's disqualified, but under the rule of

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necessity, everybody's allowed to vote. I have to put that on the record, I think, to cover everything. >> I I think that's fine. And everybody's a customer via ENG. They have to be able to uh take action tonight. So, >> okay.

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>> You should be worried that everybody's a happy customer. >> Different issue, but you're right. Second issue is I suspect that service was found to be in order. >> Yeah. Yes.

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>> Okay. Third, we did bring a stenographer uh and we will make the transcript available so that if and you and I spoke about this if you don't want to do minutes, we'll you have a complete set of transcripts for you and they will be

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provided as soon as Mr. Fisherman finds some time which usually is within a couple of weeks. So, we can make this the record if you would like. >> That's fine. Last but not least, um I

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have um someone with me that uh Katie who uh is going to help I think work this or are you going to do it on your own? >> All right. So, we have this and we'll be

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putting things in. Brian will lead us as we have to mark things into evidence. So, that all having been said, if I could, I'd like to have my first witness sworn. >> Sure.

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>> Sir, raise your right hand, please. Do you swear or affirm that testimony you're about to give before this board is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? >> I do. >> Can you state your name and spell your last name for the record, please? >> Sure. My name is Neil Pashala. First

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name EI L. Last name Pala. P I E S Z C H A L A. >> Thank you. >> Now spell it backwards. Okay.

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So Neil, tell us a little bit about yourself. Whom you by whom are you employed? What's your educational background? >> I am employed by PSENG. Um, I've been at PSCG for uh roughly 11 years. Uh, my my background I graduated from Temple

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University in in Philadelphia in 2011 with a civil and construction engineering technology degree. Um, right now my title is a project manager. Uh, when I started in PSNG back in 2014, I started as a staff engineer supporting

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other project managers. um basically taking care of meeting minutes, um day-to-day activities, setting up meetings, um engineering support, etc. Um in 2017, I got promoted to an associate project manager. Um and then

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in 2021, I became a project manager. Um I have run multiple discipline projects with PSENG, specifically for electrical uh substation upgrades. Uh my most recent projects um have have one currently in Montgomery and then down in

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uh down in Camden. Um I've had projects in Lawrence, Euing, Hamilton, uh Marlton, Maple Shade. I'd like to have him. Obviously, he's a professional engineer. Uh but he really is more of a fact witness and the

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project manager who's responsible for all of the things you're going to see tonight. So that's what I'm offering him as. I have a I have a licensed professional engineer to testify to. >> That's fine. >> All right. Are you familiar with why we're here tonight and what we got and

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>> Yes, I am. >> Okay. What's the purpose of the facility? How did I do in trying to explain it as an attorney? >> Pretty well. So, so PSNG's Bennett Lane substation was constructed in the late 1960s. Um, it was upgraded in 2010. Um,

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it's it's tied to multiple stations, um, seven to be exact, uh, throughout the area. Um, it serves roughly 17,500 customers, um, including Ruckers and St. Peters Hospital. Um,

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PSNG is proposing to upgrade the electrical equipment inside the substation um, within the existing Bennett Lane substation. um due to due to help satisfying the the growing

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need of electrical in in the area as well as there's equipment inside the substation that has reached its end of useful life. Um the upgrades will improve the health, safety, the welfare of of the residents and businesses in the area and will

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increase reliability. >> So they'll help to keep the air conditioning on. >> Correct. Okay, good. You want to start walking us around or you want to explain some other things first? >> No, we could we could go to Let's go to

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exhibit one. So, so we'll use this. This is an a bird eyes view of the current um Bennett Lane station which is located at at Bennett's Lane in between South Bush Road and and Dmer Road. Um, starting on the on the

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west side on the left, uh, you have the scenic corridor, which is >> Hold on a second. Can we There we go. Can we use a pointer or something so the board can at least see what you're talking about? Go ahead, Luke. >> Sure. So, on the the west side, South Middle Bush is a is a scenic corridor. Um, moving to the to the north, um,

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northeast, we have a a neighborhood. Um, and to the south and and west, we we have agricultural farms and uses. Anything more you want to point out on this exhibit? >> No.

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>> Can we move to exhibit two? >> We could zoom in a little bit. >> Yeah, I think we ought to make that. That's good. Is that adequate, Neil? >> I think that's okay for the purpose. So, again, just for references to to your left or to the west is is South Middle

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Bush Road. Um, so this is our existing Bennett Lane substation. Um, we'll show you, we'll go from from left to right and basically this is existing conditions plan. So this is what it looks like today. >> And you're also going to as you go around the existing conditions, are you

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going to try and point out the pieces that are being replaced because of u age? >> Correct. >> Okay. >> All right. So starting off um the entire uh fence that exists there which consists of seven 7 foot with a 1T

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partially barbed wire fence on the on the east side. Um the rest of the the fence is a 1T slant that faces outward. That will all be replaced. We have an enhanced physical security initiative um across PS PSNG

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substations um where we're looking to secure the stations um in case of um of a disturbance of of of some kind. So >> let's call it the the craziness that we're facing in society today. We're really trying to harden >> correct

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>> our stations so that they can't hopefully be violated or intruded upon. >> Correct. So starting from from the left side uh when you go in the station uh road there is some what we call 13 KV

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switch gear which is in the gray which is being circled currently that has reaches its end of life. Um that that equipment is roughly 60 years old plus. Um that will be replaced in in in kind. um that will be

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removed. Also to right below is an existing control house that will be removed entirely. Moving to the right, what you could see, it's hard to see, but in the gray, those are existing 230 to 13 KV transformers.

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>> Just just for the record, I'm going to try and help locate it a little bit, too. So, you're to the right and you're right in the middle and there are two shadows and it's right to the right of where the lines are kind of crossing. >> Correct. Correct. >> Correct. >> And there are two what? >> Two transformers. Power transformers.

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Thank you. This will make it easier. As long as there's a battery in it. >> No, it doesn't show on the screen. Okay. You're doing you're doing well, Katie. though the two transformers are right there. There we go. Does it work on the screen?

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>> Works on the brick. >> Works on the brick. >> All right. So, if we have to point anything out on the brick, we'll use the pointer if that's all right. Um, okay. So, we're on those two transformers. What's ne What's next to it? So, next to that are two two A-frames, which basically take your transmission wires,

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which are your two 230 KV lines, and drop them into the transformers, which then reduces the power into the switch gear. >> What's What's an A-frame? It's it's like a fancy >> it's a hole or what? >> It's a it's a structure that that holds the transmission lines. >> And it's in kind of the shape of an A. And that's correct. That's why we

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cleverly call it that. >> Correct. >> Okay. So moving further to the east um >> and to the right as we go >> and to the right and in if you could circle your m your mouse that is an existing 230 to 69 KV transformer which

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again takes power and reduces it to our 69 KV voltage class. Um >> we're not replacing that though. >> No we are not. Um moving further to the right um is also a

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Again, a two there's a 230 KV breaker there. Um, breaker acts as basically a a breaker in your house, but at a much higher voltage rating. Um, so it's >> they'll have a guy coming out just to flip it. They got machines that actually have to have to break the circuit if

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there's a problem. Right. >> Correct. >> Okay. >> Uh, moving further to the east or right, you have your existing 69 KV ring bus, which is a 66 breaker ring bus. >> What's a ring bus? Um, it's basically a a ring bus is is uh takes the power and

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again like the breakers in your house. If there's a a trip, a fault or a safety problem, a breaker will trip, feeds from the other side, nobody loses power. >> So, a ring bus is is really a series of it's not wires, but it acts like wires except much bigger and carries much more

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correct >> energy. Is that correct? >> Correct. >> Okay. Uh moving further down to the right there is an existing control house. Um this control house is staying but as part of the next exhibit will show it is expanding.

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Moving to the south and west or to the left being circled is an existing 230 KV lattice tower that will be removed completely and a new uh single monopole will be installed in its place.

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I think that covers us for this exhibit. So, moving to exist exhibit three. This is our our site plan drawing. So, again, we'll we'll start on the left side or west side of the station. As you could see in the in the red up top, that is our new 13 KV switch gear, shelter

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dial gear. um which will be installed to replace the existing 13 KV switch gear. >> What are the two squares uh to the left of that in the in >> those those are manholes. So for our underground duck bank >> those are just manholes. Okay. >> Yep. For the 13 KV distribution.

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>> Now everything in I don't know what to color it call it red salmon buff. Everything in that color is all new things that we're putting on the site. Is that correct? new uh with exception to the station road that is just being refreshed.

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Okay. All right. So, you just told us about Go ahead. So, moving to the um I'm sorry to down below um on the plan highlighted in blue. Uh that blue

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is a temporary mobile um contingency setup. So that's needed because of how close the existing 13KV switch gear is located to the new proposed 13 KV switch gear. So that's temporary in nature. That will be brought in during construction. Um it's basically a

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transformer on on a trailer on wheels. It gets gets energized and will be remained in service until construction is complete and then it will be removed in its entirety. Um, as you could see and shaded in red under the blue, that's that I believe that's the existing

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control us which will be demolished. Moving further down as part of our enhanced physical security, um, this is a a an isolation wall and it is 26 ft tall. Um this is to

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protect our our assets >> and we we use these isolation walls all over now and it's also part of our new plan for enhancement of the sites. Is that correct? Correct. Um moving

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to the right and east per se um there is also another 26ft tall isolation wall which protects the the transformer to the north. Moving further on to the right in the middle, that's a storm water

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trench that will be at grade. Um, this electrical equipment is all our 230 KV breakers. So, we're installing um three new breakers and and replacing one 230 KV breaker. So, existing there was one, now we're installing three more for a

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total of four. And this also is the a new A-frame structure um which sorry not talking in so the existing A-frame structure is 75.4 ft and the new A-frame structure is

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roughly 76 ft. >> All right. And that was some of the relief that we'll be talking about with our planner because some of the stuff is getting just slightly higher than what's out there. Is that right? >> That is correct. >> Okay. What else does this show? Moving further to the right, this is a a brand

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new 230 to69 KV transformer. Um, we have one on site and this will be a second edition. Um, also attached to that is another pre-cast concrete isolation wall. This

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one is roughly 32 feet tall or not roughly, it is 32 feet tall. >> Okay. And this is the rest of the road coming in. Correct. From Bennett. >> Okay. And what what's the what's the red right there? >> The red circle, that's your new

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monopole. So the new monopole is 161.4 ft tall. And the existing lattice tower is 154.9 ft tall. So we're increasing roughly 7 feet. >> Okay. And how about the red to the right of that, Neil? And the red to the right

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of that is our we are adding an additional 69 KV breaker to expand it to a seven breaker ring bus. >> And that's so we can bring additional energy to the site. And that's that's really is what's motivating this besides the replacement of the old equipment. >> Correct. Because because of the new the

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the existing lines that additional transformer needs another 69 KV breaker position. >> Okay. I see a little more red on the right. Yes, that is our existing control house with an expansion um which will include a bathroom because the existing

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control house down below did did contain a bathroom but that will be demolished. >> All right. What's the purpose of a control house? >> It's all of our relaying equipment. So all communication back to our our central division headquarters and proper communication between relays between different lines and and stations. So

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these control houses actually tell headquarters or whatever wherever what's going on if there are problems or anything else. Is that correct? >> That is correct. >> So this control house will take care of the entire site. >> That is correct. >> Okay.

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So all of the things that you just talked about, all the things in red, that's all the new stuff that we're putting in. >> Correct. >> As opposed to the stuff that we're just replacing. >> That is correct. >> Okay. What else we got also to the to the right here? um uh at block or lot 2.10

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which is PSCG owned. Uh we plan on using this as a as a temporary trailers and contractor parking. Um and then after the project is complete, this will be restored to to current conditions. >> Now, one of the reports that we received

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from uh the municipal professionals was uh why is this a separate lot? Are we going to merge this as as part of uh this action this application before the board tonight? >> Yes. >> Okay. What else you want to talk about before

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I ask you some questions? >> I think that's all at this point. Oh, and I'm I'm sorry. I I did miss one item. Um back to the beginning of this of this site plan. We do have a proposed bio retention basin on the front um left

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side of of the station or southwest Okay. So, is this a man facility? >> No, it's not. >> How often do people come and visit? >> Uh, one one to two times a week. >> And what are they doing when they visit? >> Just uh regular maintenance, checking uh

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to make sure everything is functioning correctly. Um, looking at all the outside equipment, all the items inside the control house typically can be seen back back at our division headquarters. >> Can anyone get into these sites? I mean, if there was some need for emergency

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crews or something to get in, can they get in or do we have to be there first? >> PSG will have to be there first >> because we have to deenergize the site. We don't want fire departments wandering in or anything else. >> Correct. >> But they certainly are welcome and we certainly have plans on file as is

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indicated in I think some of the professionals reports with them and we're happy to communicate with them in any way, shape or form that we need to. Is that correct? >> Yes, that's correct. Are there any uh lightning mass on the site? >> There are existing lightning mass. >> Are we putting any new ones in?

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>> We are not. >> Um >> I don't think we are. >> No, we are not. >> Okay. Uh tell me about the construction schedule and how long is there is there going to be any outage when you're switching over from the new to the old to the

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>> No outages? >> No outages at all. >> No. At least we hope >> that is correct. And we expect we expect there to be no outages. >> Okay. Uh tell me about construction. >> So construction will will take place currently we're proposing construction

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in second quarter of 2027. Uh this project has an inservice of of 2029. Um so construction sequence wise uh first thing would be the the trailer uh parking area to get that down. Um then we'd come in and in install that new

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monopole. um remove the lattice tower, move to various foundations within the within the yard, um power equipment. Once all that equipment is in, then would move to the 13 KB switch gear. Um once that is is energized um

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by 2029, end of 29, um the only remaining activities would be cleanup, landscaping, uh fencing, and likely be out of there by mid 2030. >> Okay, let's talk about the fence that we're putting in. Why is it different?

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Why are we not using bar uh just regular chain link or something anymore? >> It's a 10-ft anti- cut, anti-climb fence. Um, so it just pro protects our facility. No climbing. Uh, barb wire is not needed because you can't actually climb the fence. >> And it's also one that you really can't

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see through. >> Correct. >> Uh, I would just note for the board and for your planner that I believe we had requested relief for the fence because you couldn't see through it, but there's a section in your ordinance that says if you're a public utility, you're allowed

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to put it in a fence like this. But we did apply for the variance just in case anyway. >> Okay. Thank you. Okay. What else? Take a minute and just think. I kind of took you a little bit out of order because I thought this would be easier for the board. We don't get to work off

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off of TV very often. So, this was really different and a lot easier. by the way. >> Um yes. And and the last remaining item is um to the northwest we are installing a 13 ft tall pre-cast concrete wall

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which is part of the enhanced physical security um just to protect our assets in that corner which is a switch gear and the transformer behind that. >> Yeah. And we really are making an effort on all of our sites to protect transformers uh because of some silly

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incidents that happened not in New Jersey but actually in California I guess right. >> Yeah there's been a couple incidents in North Carolina um California as well. I believe there's been um roughly about 10 incidents in the last last few years and right now transformer lead times are

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three to four years. So it's not a piece of equipment that's readily available and easy to to turn around. And also uh they cost more than 15 cents. Correct. >> That is correct. >> They're enormously expensive. >> Yes. >> Now, do you have anything else?

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>> No. >> He's not going to go any place. So, if it's all right, I'd bring up my engineer. >> Yep. >> Just a reminder, you're you're running behind. >> I'm going too slow. Can you raise your right hand, please? >> I'll pick it up, Mr. Chair.

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>> Do you swear our affirm testimony you're about to give before this board is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? >> Yes, I do. >> Can you state your name and spell your last name for the record, please? >> Uh, Jason Ringer. R I N G E R. >> Thank you. >> Jason, by whom are you employed?

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>> Uh, Burns McDonald Engineering Company out of uh Kansas City, Missouri. >> And what's your educational background? >> I have a bachelor of science in civil engineering from Purdue University. And I graduated in 2015. And you're a licensed professional engineer in the state of New Jersey. >> Yes, that's correct. I received my

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original license in the state of Texas in 2020 and I received my through reciprocity I received my New Jersey license in 2024. Uh my license is currently active and in good standing. >> Like Dor is a licensed professional engineer. All right. Um Jason,

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you're familiar with the site, you're familiar with the plans, you heard the testimony. You have any problem with anything that we talked about? >> No, I do not. >> Okay. So, we're only going to talk about really two issues, I think. >> Let's What do you want to talk about first? Drainage. >> Yes. >> Go ahead. Go to storm water. >> So, um you have a different exhibit

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here. I don't know if we have one that has the kind of the uh slopes grading here. Generally, the site uh slopes from uh east to west. And the existing >> What is that? That's right to left. >> Uh yes, right to left. Um uh you can kind of break up the drainage

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areas into three kind of separate areas. um or in the existing case, we have two um sloping towards the right and then there's a couple catch basins out there that's routing storm water into the existing detention basin located to the plan north um of the site and then

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further down to the east um there's a couple uh existing pipes that outlet uh east of the station into further drainage um wooded area out there. >> I think Mr. Chairman, we just lost a member of the board. Should we take a

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break for a minute until he comes back? >> We'll wait. Go ahead. You can You want to stop for a minute? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Unless we got one, two, three, four. It would just mean that he couldn't vote.

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>> It would just If we kept going, it means he can't vote. >> Then start again. What do you want to do? Well, I assume he's coming back in about two minutes, right? >> Right. >> Anybody else need a bio break?

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>> You know, you start talking about those bioension basins and look what happens. >> Okay. Yeah. Yeah. First time ever. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know, maybe what I could do in the

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meantime is just deal with some procedural issues that really don't the board doesn't need to vote on. And I think I need Mark's help on this. We received all of the reports, all 10 of them or 12 of them. We don't have any problem with anything in those reports.

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We'll we'll address any issues that you think are necessary. We've already discussed things with your engineer and he's okay with what we have. >> Yeah. So, generally what the board is going on in here then if if you can comply with all the staff reports just state that and if there's anything in particular that you need to bring to the

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board's attention, you know, if there's issues for dis that are board discussion issues, obviously you need to bring that. Otherwise, you don't need to go into orifice sizes of >> right. I I don't think I don't think >> you don't agree to comply. You can just move forward and there may be some issues in the reports that they ask you

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to, you know, bring that to the board's attention. So, concentrate on that. >> I I think we're all set to do that. There's only one or two now based on what we had discussed with them. >> Okay. >> Okay. Pick up where you left off, buddy. >> All right. Yep. So, um in the proposed condition or I'll say in the existing

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condition, uh the detention basin to the north is served by three catch basins. We're going to be removing two of those and um installing the storm water trench that you can see in the center of the station and then in addition five other catch basins basically to um just we're

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not modifying the existing basin just capturing the same area just in a little more efficient and manner and being able to work around the new equipment out there as well. Um, and then to also account for some of the the new area that we're uh disturbing inside the

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station, we've included a a bio retention, which is a green infrastructure installation down in the bottom southwest, plain southwest of the station. And that is receiving storm water from sheet flow uh overland towards the basin and then into a um

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vegetated swale that's right outside the uh proposed and existing fence line um leading into that um basin. And way that works uh runoff trickles through and then it helps filter and clean it in a natural way and then we outlet it downstream.

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>> So what's the next conclusion on the storm water runoff? >> Uh so we are improving the general runoff um in uh compliance with NJDAP regulations as well as the Franklin Township Code of ordinances. >> Okay. And there were some questions about lighting. Can you talk about that quick?

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>> Yes. So there are um there's existing lighting out there and then we're proposing um majority down lighting um that have that are on um uh dust of dawn um uh light bulb. So they'll be on at night. Those are uh

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relatively low um and those will be also motion activated. That's just to provide um uh PSCG personnel ability to observe uh and make sure working equipment is in order. There'll be additional uplighting

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and those will be uh uh functional on a switch and that'll only be for emergency uses if there if PSC needs to get in there and you know replace the transformer whatever. Um that'll just provide the adequate amount of lighting to work in a um emergency situation at

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night. And if anybody were to have a problem, we would be happy to work with the township professionals if we had to adjust lighting or just wattage or anything else out there. >> Yes, that's correct. >> Do you have any other testimony? >> Uh, no, I do not. >> And you saw all the reports. You don't have any problem in meeting those comments?

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>> No, we do not. >> Okay. Thank you. >> All right. Thank you, >> Lisa. >> Good evening. >> Hi. Good evening. Can you raise your right hand, please? Do you swear or affirm the testimony you're about to give before this board is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

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>> I do. >> Can you uh state your name and spell your last name for the record, please? >> It's Lisa. Oops, I'm shorter. Lisa Def Franza. D I F R A N ZA. >> Thank you,

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>> Lisa. By whom you are employed? E2 Project Management located at 2517 Route 35 in Manisquan. >> And they do what? >> They're an civil engineering uh an environmental engineering company. >> And what are you educated to be? >> I am I have a bachelor's uh degree in

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civil engineering technology. Uh I am a licensed professional engineer in the state of New Jersey. I'm also a certified municipal engineer. Um I'm a my PE is in good standing. And you regularly prepare landscaping plans for

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public service also. Is that correct? >> I do. I am not a landscape architect. However, I am a professional engineer that can prepare those >> under that license. >> Yes. And we have a design a landscape designer in our office that assists me under my direction. >> Okay. So, what do you want to tell us about landscaping?

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>> Uh if you if you can go do you want to go to the aerial? I'm sorry. The existing aerial. No, the other one. Yeah, that one. just zoom out a little bit. >> All right, so we're back at the existing aerial for the entire site. >> Uh just to give you an overview of the

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existing uh landscaping that surrounds the property and exists around the station to the plan north to the top. There's existing uh wooded area uh outside the property in addition to some

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to the north of the access drive that is to remain. Uh main focus on the right in between lot 210 and 2011 there's an existing landscape buffer uh mostly evergreen trees that the majority are

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are to remain but a number of them will come out uh just due to the expansion and some other security clearances that are needed. There's also some existing landscaping along the frontage along Bennett's Lane. Some the majority are to are to remain. Some of the shrubs will

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have to be removed, but we're going to be planting some new plantings uh to uh substantiate uh the additional landscaping along the frontage. >> Okay. Um there was landscaping. Well, what do you want to talk about?

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>> Uh we can move on to the landscape plan. Uh this is to the uh plan I guess would be west to the left of the sheet in the area of the uh bio retention basin where we're going to be planting some some evergreen trees along the front. That

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bio retention basin will be h will be installed with herbaceous plugs just so it becomes naturalized and and will be maintained by PSENG. There's also some additional shrubbery to the left that's proposed near that existing lattice

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tower just as a sort of screen on the approach from Bennett's Lane. Uh there are no trees being removed within the scenic corridor. Moving on to the right of the station to the east. Uh again, some additional

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proposed plantings along the frontage just to supplement some of the existing uh in front of that station fence. Uh to the right, that common property line between the

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station and the temporary layown area where there's some existing trees that are going to be removed. uh they're very close to the fence fence line which PSEG requires a 10-ft security clearance uh

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between the station fence uh for safety measures. Uh we worked the engineer your board engineer recommended uh some to minimize the number of plants that are removed from there and we were

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able to with the vision's approval from PSENG relocate that fence 5 ft to the west so into the station. So we still will have to remove some of those fences. Some of those evergreen trees are growing into the station yard, which

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is a not a a good situation. Uh, and we need to maintain that 10-ft clearance. So, we're able to leave some of them, take some of them out, and then supplement in some of the brighter green that you see between that common property line. In addition to the north

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of the layown property adjacent to that residence to the north, there's some additional plantings going to be installed. So that'll provide an additional buffer for them as they're looking at the fence. >> Correct. And we'll be we're willing to work with your board, the board planner and the engineer with regards to

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placement of trees, removal of trees, and to meet the uh ordinance requirements >> and and to also meet what they think is best for the shifting of the landscaping. >> Correct. >> What else you want to talk about? >> That's it. You sure? Yeah. What do I

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want to talk about? >> Lay down the trees. I think the bees. >> Okay. >> Good. >> I think so. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Uh this is my planner and we will try because we he knows the board because I told him about the board. Um we'll try

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and keep this at the highest level possible uh when he's testifying. So, we don't have a planner talking. >> Sir, uh, raise your right hand. Thank you. Uh, do you swear or affirm that testimony you're about to give before this board is truth, the whole truth,

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and nothing but the truth? >> I do. >> Can you state your name and spell your last name for the record? >> James W. Higgins. Hi. GG G I N. >> Thank you. >> And I am a licensed professional planner in the state. As with Kevin O'Brien, my license is current. And uh in fact it

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was just renewed for two years. I have 45 years experience as a planner. I was actually accepted as a planner by this board but it was so many years ago that my hair was reddish brown rather than silver as it is right now.

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>> We'll still accept. >> And your licenses are valid as of tonight, right? >> Yes, they are valid. Yes. Okay. >> Jim, you heard the testimony and um what we'd like to do is really >> cut to the chase here. We have a number of pre-existing non-conforming

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issues that were all spelled out in the submissions that we made. So, our position is we're not exacerbating them. They were all granted by this board on at least one other occasion. >> That's correct. That's correct. Some of them are lot frontage, front yard

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setbacks, sideyard setbacks, the lightning mast height, and impervious coverage. >> Okay. So the new variances that we're looking for are I believe three in number. Is that correct? >> That is correct. Yes. There's a uh new

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wall sideyard setback. And actually the setback is remaining the same, but the wall is replacing the 8 foot high chain link and barbed wire fence. And and that wall is going to be 13t high. Uh and

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there's going to be no barbed wire on the top of it. It's going to be solid and it's to screen the view of the existing and proposed substation. And as we know, substations while they may be interesting to look at, they're really not attractive to look at. So the intent

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is to try and screen it and to protect the equipment inside the substation also from any kind of damage from somebody that may want to do some damage from the outside. Um, the second is the front yard setback along Bennett's Lane for some of the equipment. The existing

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setback is actually 33.6 ft and that's to the base of the existing lattice tower that's being removed. The new setback is going to be to some of the servicing equipment and that's going to be 38.5 ft. So, it's actually a slight improvement over the

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prior condition, but it's a uh situation where the the new there's going to be new servicing equipment installed. So, that would be a new variance. >> Well, it is a new variance. It's still inside the fence. >> That's right. It's inside the fence. Everything is being done within the

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existing the confines of the existing fence and the existing development on the site. It's not being expanded in area outside the existing facility. Um, the other two variances are be the height of the A-frame that's replacing

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the existing A-frame. The existing A-frame is 75.4 ft. The proposed A-frame will be 76.2 ft. That's8 ft difference about 9 in. And that will be imperceptible

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uh to to the naked eye. So I don't see where that has any significant negative impact. Uh the transmission monopole is going the existing one the lattice tower is 154.9 ft. The monopole will be little

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be more attractive be a slimmer design that'll be 161.4 ft. So it'll be a little bit higher but again be more attractive and and less obtrusive. Um again all of these are necessary for the

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u modifications that are being done to the site and the test for D3 variances and for D6 variance for height is whether or not the site can accommodate the use despite the need for those variances. And quite frankly, given that the improvements that are being done to

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the site and the improvements to the electrical transmission in the area, the site can better accommodate the use because of those variances that are being requested. >> Now, you reviewed the standards for conditional use because we're also looking for conditional use relief, which you just talked about from the

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variance. How do we do on all the other ones? >> Yes. Okay. Well, the conditional use variances, there's two sets of conditional use variances. One is variances are conditions that are specific to the use and public utility installations have two conditions. One

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is that they cannot be within 100 ft of a school, a church or other public places and this meets that condition. It's not within 100 ft of a school, a church or any other public places. The other is that there cannot be any out permanent outdoor storage of vehicles or

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equipment or materials and there will be no permanent outdoor storage of vehicles, equipment or materials. So it meets those requirements. Then there are five requirements under the general conditions of the ordinance and uh what

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first of those is that the conditional use is conditionally permitted in the zone and is conditionally permitted in both zones. So it meets those. The second is that the use is so so designated and proposed to be operated that the public health, safety, welfare

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and convenience of the citizens will be protected. That's the whole purpose of this application is to do that and to better not just protect the state but to better provide for the uh wealth general welfare and the protection of the public as far as safety goes by providing a

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reliable and redundant electrical uh electrical facility >> and we met all those on the previous applications. >> That's correct. That's correct. >> So we'd ask that you just take judicial notice of that. And the third is is adequate landscaping and light and

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screening and you've heard the testimony about that. I believe that complies. The fourth would be there to be adequate off- streetet parking and quite frankly this site does not require much off- streetet parking at all. You don't have to have formal parking spaces. The

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there's very limited visitors visits to the site and there's plenty of room on the site for whoever is there inspecting the site and maintaining the site to park their vehicles. So it meets that. And then the final is that the use conforms to the applicable regulations governing the district in which it is

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located. And as I discussed with the the currently approved variances, the previously approved variances and the ones that are being requested now, the site can accommodate the use. That's the test despite the deviation from those

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conditions. And quite frankly, the use that that's a condition that is general to all zones to all conditional uses. And this type of use is unique both in terms of its appearance, in terms of its function, and in terms of the regulatory

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and security requirements that are necessary for it. So I think the site can accommodate the use despite the deviation from those those requirements of your ordinance. >> Okay. How about the senior senior? How about the scenic corridor?

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>> The scenic corridor? Um, well, first of all, there's two conditions that re that apply to the the fencing, but the scenic corridor specifically exempts security fences for public utility installations from those requirements. So, those

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aren't necessary. And then there's also a height requirement which has to maintain the height requirements within the zone. And none of the proposed uh facilities on the site that exceed the 35 ft are within the scenic corridor. So

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that's not necessary either. >> I think the final one, how about the decorative fence height? >> What the decorative fence height again? Again, I think that's also exempted by the by the exemption in in the the ordinance that exempts the security

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fences for uh public utility installations. >> Do you have any other testimony? No. >> Did you have a chance to review the planners report and I did you have any difficulties in anything in that? >> Not at all. I I agree with it. >> I think you told me it read like a novel, didn't you? >> Well,

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a short novel, a short story, >> Mr. Chairman, they're my witnesses. We can answer any and all questions. >> Concludes your presentation >> until you get done with us. Yes. >> Any board questions?

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I had just one quick one. Um you had mentioned and in your opening that this was um there was an expansion element to the substation. Just curious like quantifiably is it like 50% more 100% more >> by adding another line. How much how

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much more capacity do we wind up picking up? We're adding another it's it's hard to say because it's redundant because it's tied it's interconnected to the multiple stations. So >> So we're adding another 230 KV transformer um and adding another adding

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more 230 KV breakers and 69 KV. So they're essentially interconnected with seven other stations in the area. So right now some of some of the system is is almost loaded to about 100% during summer peak. Um, so this will offload

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that. So it will reduce capabilities. It's all um it's all um put together by our planning department. Um I I wouldn't be comfortable to put a percentage on that right now, >> but that's fine. I I thought it was probably a simple question. It was a

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simple question, but a complicated answer. I appreciate it, though. >> The answer is this is a pretty significant upgrade. >> Yes. Correct. to the to this service. >> Correct. >> Any others? >> And go ahead.

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>> And Lisa, the trees that you're going to put in, they're going to be uh evergreens. >> Uh okay. You want me to uh referring to landscaping, we're putting in 54 new trees, four deciduous, and the majority,

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50 of will be evergreens, and there'll be 135 new shrubs. Uh the majority of them will be uh evergreen, and the majority are drought tolerant and native. >> Okay. >> How about deer resistant? >> Uh

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somewhat. Nothing is deer Nothing is completely deer resistant. Other questions? >> Just just one clarification, Mr. Chairman. So, you had indicated the lighting. Um Yeah. And I I had asked a question about the uplighting because um

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you know, obviously it may have a visual impact if these towers were lit with uplights all the time. And the answer was that those uplights are only going to be used d for emergency purposes, which makes a lot of sense. Um, so I guess my follow-up question is, if I

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recall the original plan, and I don't recall if it's been updated, there were some flood lights that weren't directed completely down. Has that been changed? Or if there are some flood lights, are those also only for emergency purposes?

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Uh I believe mo the majority of them are um the ones that are staying with the existing equipment will remain. Um and like I said I want to caveat that I'm not the uh electrical lighting engineer so I can we can provide further testimony if required but that's um

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simply to just improve the the condition on on site there. I I guess the answer maybe I'll I'll ask ask it this way. To the degree that there are lights on all the time. >> Yes. >> Are those down lights? Correct. >> Shielded down lights. Okay. That's fine. Okay. Thank you.

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>> Yep. >> Any other questions? >> How about noise? Is there any Is that a factor? >> No, but if you want to hear from Mr. Mueller, he could tell you, but the answer is no. We're still way below the standard out there. Now, I'm only

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bringing that up because in your 2010 uh the last time you redid this, we had our your neighbor dairy farmer very concerned about any residual effects on his cattle. They

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seem to have survived that modernization. Is it your statement that or your position that they'll survive this one too? I yes they they won't have a problem because of any sound emanating off of our site. Whether they survive

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for other reasons is a different issue but the sound will not we are well beyond well beyond below standard. >> Okay. Any other questions? Anything else you want to say

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>> to say? No. Thank you. >> All right board. Uh well first we have to open to the tech make a token open to the public uh which shows that there are the only public and I don't mean that to be

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demeaning or public service people associated with the application >> and they know they're not allowed to speak unless they're called to the table. >> Well, you weren't supposed to say that for the record. >> I'd love to say that for the record. >> Then we'll close to the public. Anything else from the board, from the applicant?

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Otherwise, we'll take a motion. Make a motion. Okay. I make a motion that we approve ZBA 26003. And unless somebody's got some conditions, I really don't have any.

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>> I'll set it. >> No conditions. subject to the testimony staff. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Okay. >> Okay. Cheryl Bethia. >> Yes. >> Richard Brokanic. >> Yes. >> Basim Verdas. Yes.

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>> Alan Rich. >> Yes. >> Gary Rosenthal. >> Yes. >> Michael Dy. >> Yes. >> Chairman Thomas. >> Yes. >> Okay. >> Thank you very much for your time. >> Not a problem. We'll entertain a motion now to adjourn.

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So move a second. >> Second. >> All in favor? I >> I meeting a journ. Just hot.