Order in accordance with the open public meetings act 1975 chapter 231 adequate notice of this regular meeting of zoning board of the township of Franklin has been provided. Board members, applicants, professionals, and members of the public, please speak directly into the
microphone so our recording secretary can properly process minutes. Applicants and professionals, please fill out the sheet on the table when you've completed the testimony. Thank you. Uh we'll start with the roll call.
>> Okay. Uh Cheryl Betha and Mike Dy asked to be excused this evening. Richard Brokanic >> here. >> Verdas here. Alan Rich >> here. >> Gary Rosenthal >> here. >> Robert Shepard >> here. >> Farz Khan, >> Kunal Lakia
>> here. >> Oh, I forgot. Uh, Mr. Singh also asked to be excused this evening. Sorry. And Chairman Thomas >> here. Uh, no minutes, no resolutions. In terms of discussion, uh, we have a proposed revised zoning board of
adjustment rules. uh you want to give us a quick summary and are we going to be acting on it or is this tonight or >> um yeah well it's up to the board if you want to act on it but it was it was given to you in your um in your submitt packet. So, okay,
>> you if you had a chance to review it, but basically it's really two there's a number of um >> you know, minor editorial uh changes to the bylaws, but there the two sub substantive changes are uh the first one is regarding the um uh adjournment of
hearings and whether an applicant needs to renotice. Um and this is language that the planning board recently put in their bylaws. Basically, if an applicant comes before the board um and that meeting doesn't finish that evening, you can, you know, as you normally do, you
would notice to a certain date um date and time and and place and that would be that would that would satisfy the notice requirements. They don't have to renotice. But we have we do have some situations a number of times when the applicant notices then they for whatever reason don't appear before the board and
it gets kicked and it gets kicked and it gets kicked. um you know technically if you put it on the resolution you know it could satisfy the notice requirements but the planning board and I believe this board has voiced some concerns about that. In those situations the applicant would be required to renotice.
So you can't just kind of kick an application down the road. Uh that's in essence the the purpose of that change that's on page nine of your bylaws. >> Okay. That of course is to help the public know when so they don't lose track of when these hearings are are
rescheduled for when they're when they're drawn out over a period of time and you know not happening. >> Exactly. >> And then the other one was >> and the other one is the use of technology. So this is something that you know we have these four nice screens here that help the board review the
applications helps the public and also helps the um you know the the viewing public see the application and materials that are being presented to the board. Uh we've had a policy of asking applicants to bring laptops so it could be shown up on the board. Um so what
we're proposing is in both the um uh suggesting that both the planning board and zoning board put it in their bylaws that if you're represented by professionals, you have a site plan application, architecturals, etc. Come prepared to have them displayed on these screens so the board and the public can
see, you know, what you're presenting to the board, not have, you know, the little boards down here that frankly not even the board can see. So, we're going to put it in the bylaws and frankly it allows the chair to send them packing if they don't.
>> Okay. since those were uh generated uh in your online packet. If uh if anybody would like to act on it on a motion and and chair, just one last thing just to make it clear too with this last thing, Christine and I um
we've already been putting it in our transmitts to the applicant. Uh but we're going to make it clear to them that um you know again this is part of the bylaws that we want to give it more even more strength than just staff saying you should be doing this. This is the board's requirements and again
making it clear. So frankly they should not be surprised if they show up with little 2x3 boards if you they get sent packing that evening that they've been well you know they've been informed and and you know they've been told ahead of time of that. So, we're going to make it abundantly clear in our transmitts to
the applicants. >> Okay. Anybody want to ask a question, any discussion, or want to offer a motion? >> Uh, I move that we uh accept uh the amended uh rules for the uh zoning board
uh that were included with our package today. >> A second. >> Is this a roll call or I was just going to ask Brian the same thing. Is it just the um >> just >> everybody? It can be everybody.
>> Okay. All in favor? >> I opposed. Okay. That motion is carried. Those rules will will take effect. Next extension of time. Hawthorne management. >> Good evening, Mr. Chairman and members
of the board. Jim Stallen Foley. >> Can we get to repeat that? I have to repeat that again. >> All right. Am I on now? >> I hold it. >> No. Did it turn red or green?
>> Just push the Just push the big >> green. >> Nothing. Am I Am I blind? >> You see coming to the rescue? >> I don't know. microphone has to agree. Jim,
>> we we can leguca legislate you to do it or use it, but we can't make the make it work. >> There it is. >> Your excellent assistant. Oh, if you're pleased the board, Jim Stall, S Ahl,
Boris, Golden Foley, etc. North Kendrick, New Jersey. Take the other microphone and move it away. >> Like that. Yeah. Well, that's not working so good. >> This is spinal tap. >> Hold on a second.
>> I thought the handheld one. >> What a mess. >> I did my best. The engineer should they should be doing it. >> I think you're the guinea pig with these new with these new mics. >> I like them. >> Third time. Third time will be a charm.
Jim Stall, S T A HL. Uh the firm is Boris Gold in Foley, North Brunswick. I'm here on a Horththornne management uh extension request till November of 2026. Uh the approval was uh in 22. Uh it's a
u look I can go through the menu of why we need the extension. Uh the real reason is as usual resolution compliance uh as council knows is a is a time consuming item. Uh we just need another a little more time to finish the bonding
and some of the other outside agencies. I will not be asking for another extension. We're going to get it done by November of 2026. Uh we've been working on it actively, I can tell you. Uh not weekly, but pretty much daily on this
thing. So that's my request to extend it to November 3, 2026. I'm not trying to be presumptuous or discourteous by giving you more information. I also don't want to waste your time by coming up with a a bunch of issues, you know,
COVID uh back in 22 or whatever, but we just need the extension and I would respectfully request that the board grant it. Okay. They're basically entitled to to this one. So, if there are no questions or comments, I'll take
a motion. >> I'll make a motion we grant the extension. Thanks Ellen. I'll second. >> Is there a second? >> Gary did second. >> Rich Proanic. >> Yes. >> Bassine Verdas. >> Yes.
>> Alan Rich. >> Yes. >> Gary Rosenthal. >> Yes. >> Robert Shepard. >> Yes. >> Kun Kunal Lakia. >> Yes. >> And Chairman Thomas. >> Yes. Thank you very much and have a wonderful Thanksgiving. Okay. You too.
All right. Moving into the hearings section for tonight. U JC iOS acquisitions ZBA 2520 use variance preliminary and final major site plan with variances in which the
applicant is applying to develop the site uh with an outdoor storage facility at 945 Route 27 Somerset block 88.01 lot 7.01 in the B1 zone. This is a an
application that will be carried to January 8th and in this case no further notification will be needed. So if you're here for that it will not be heard. The first one that we will hear
uh 65 MIS LLC ZBA 2420 use varants preliminary and final site plan with var C variances in which the applicant is proposing construction of a 30,917
square foot addition to the existing building at 65 55 Howard Street, Somerset block 528.04, lot 16.1, lots 161.03,
162, 163.01 in the B1 zone. >> Um, yeah, cuz you're first. >> No. Um yes, good evening. Um is this Am I going to hear this? We're going to hear this
spoken to speak into the mirror. Um is that working now? Yes. Okay. Good. Good evening. Um my name is Susan Rubbright. I'm an attorney with Brock Iller in Rosland, New Jersey. And I'm here this evening on behalf of the applicant. Um 655
Howard Avenue um is our address. And um I I want to just first take a moment and provide the we did renotice this the last uh and I and I was interested in in what you just passed for the bylaws because we had noticed this for I think
it was March or April and we did keep extending it and um but I did renotice it for this evening. So, I'm going to provide this to Christine. >> Okay. Um, what I'd like to do is just give a brief introduction about what the application is about and our witnesses
and then I do have a number of witnesses as you'll see who are going to be testifying tonight. Um, the property is located at 655 Howard Avenue. The tax assessor has noted that um the lot should be consolidated and if the board
is um kind enough to um to approve the application, we will we will do that. Um the property is 7.57 acres. It's in the BI zone. It's owned by the applicant 655 Miz LLC
care of BTC New York Inc. There is an existing warehouse on the property with related driveways and parking spaces. Um, the applicant proposes to add an additional 30,917
square feet to the existing 74,755 ft uh building for a total of 105,672 square ft. The addition will include a 1500 square foot office space and loading spaces for four additional truck
or for four trucks. The addition will be connected to the existing building. As you will hear, this addition will permit the owners to remove the trailers that are currently parked at the site, which um hold merchandise.
Um the site will also be reconfigured to accommodate new green space and better circulation patterns, and you'll hear you'll hear about that tonight. The number of parking spaces will be reduced from 133 to 77 which still exceeds the
requirement of 67 spaces. There also changes. These changes will allow the uh impervious coverage to be reduced to be compliant with the ordinance. It's currently um at 60.4%
with the maximum of 60%. Um we will be just under that now at 59.3%. Um so we are seeking the following relief. We are seeking preliminary and final site plan approval in connection with the addition. We are also seeking a
use variance now under the um section 70D strike that se yeah 70D2 from uh because um the the initial uh the initial warehouse that is located on the
property was a permitted use at the time it was approved. Since that time the the municipality has changed that. Um, and I would I would um if you can um bear with me, the master plan states that if the property in the B1 zone is already
developed with a warehouse, which this is, the use would become a legal pre-existing non-conforming use, the existing warehouse use could remain in perpetuity at its existing size. Those wishing to expand, which is what we are requesting, an existing warehouse would
have the right to apply to the township zoning board of adjustment. you all um for a D2 variant use variance where they would need to provide proofs justification per the requirements of the land use law and that's why we're here tonight. We are also seeking a
number of C variances um the parking width um permits we need to permit 24T wide instead of the 26 wide parking aisle. Um the
loading area depth is um undersized slightly. The uh maximum number of driveways is two are permitted and three are proposed. And the driveway width is 36 is permitted. The southernly the southerntherly driveway proposed is
approximately 50 ft. And we have um quite a number of professionals here this evening who will provide testimony on all of those issues. Um to my left is Ellie Mazzari. >> Misra, I know. Um sorry. Um one of the
members of the owner. Um and he's going to be my first witness to sort of, you know, set the table for why and what we're doing and what's been approved. James Ward is our per is our professional engineer. Chuck Deetsz is our architect. Tom Burke is also here.
he's with Verdantis and he's an environmental consultant to just briefly go through some of the um environmental concerns that the board might have. And then Sean Moransky is our planner who will um do the is our professional planner and he will um um provide the
the rationale for the grant of variances. So uh we have your professionals reports and we will obviously address those in in turn and in time. So, what I would like to do then is um swear in Mr. Ms. Rahi.
>> Um and sir, >> if you can raise your right hand, please. >> Do you swear or affirm the testimony you're about to give before this board is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? >> Affirm. >> You need to answer into the microphone. So, move that one. You can pull that one. >> No, you can. There's two.
>> Affirm. >> Thank you. Uh can you just repeat your name and spell your last name for the record? >> Sure. Ellie Misrai and spelling is m i z r a h i. >> Thank you.
>> Thank you. So, Mr. Mr. Ms. Could you um just give the board um an understanding of who you are, who your company is, um and then what I'd like to do, what I'd like you to do then is go through a history of the property, when you built the building, what you've been doing
there, um why you why you are here tonight applying for an addition to to the to the to the use. >> Talk about your operations. >> Sure. Thank you. Good evening, everybody. Thank you for your time tonight. Appreciate it. I know everybody likes to be home with the family. So,
this is important uh that we're able to do this. So, thank you. Um I'm not a professional. I'm just a common businessman layman. Um so, I just want to create some context for the board to understand uh what the purpose of this uh request is and where we come from and
a little bit of the history. Um the company Biotech was established in 97 uh literally out of the basement of my mom's house. um you know it was a small little tiny company with one employee and through the years we've expanded uh it's a family operated business uh
started alone then with my pop joining and then my two brothers joining and through the years you know luckily uh thankfully the the business has grown we moved from a another uh storefront let's call it out of the basement you know when the UPS driver kept coming into the
driveway and the neighbor complained we kind of had to stop that So, moving fast forward, um you know, we we have an a home office out in Brooklyn where we used to do our warehousing. It was a small operation. We had about 10,000 square ft. Uh that we grew out of that
probably around 2007, 2008, uh about 10 years into the company and then we started using 3PLs, you know, the third party logistic companies. Uh we did that for about 10 years. um it proved to be extremely costly and messy and very
tasking you know to monitor the the the operation and you know it it it wasn't as such a streamlining um you know opportunity for the business growth. So back in 2015 we started searching for warehouse you know to to own on our own.
Um we finally bumped into Somerset. Um it was probably the greatest day of our company because since then we've grown uh astronomically. Um we decided to buy this building. Uh it my brother Danny actually found it with my pop. And uh it
was dilapitated. I mean if you look at pictures from from old we have them stored if you ever want to look at them. Disgusting building. I mean they called me over to come look at it and I was like you know this is crazy. What are you guys doing? And they had a vision and they said listen we're going to renovate it. We're going to build it.
It's going to be beautiful. And long story short, the seller uh agreed to to do everything we wanted in terms of customization. Um we had one issue. There was environmental problems on the property and and from what the broker told us, nobody wants this land. So they
said Somerset would love if you guys can fix this up and use it and occupy it to clean it and you know, it would be great for the town. And you know, the mayor would be behind it. The um you know, the the um what's his name? Vince was at the
time he was um he was the econ head of economic development. You know they kept telling me people like that would be very excited. They actually came to the ribbon cutting when it happened in 2017 and so on and so forth. Bottom line is we we we agreed to purchase the building in a dilapitated form under the
conditions that a they'll renovate the building for our usage and b that they'll clean up the site. The site had a lot of environmental issues until today. that's continuously being monitored and and and worked through. So, fast forwards, what is it now? Eight years later, we're extremely proud of
the building. The building is operating in an amazing way. We have over 30 30 employees at at this time in the building, all um you know, new new jobs, tax ratables, etc. U the building is vibrant and uh the good news is we've sort of grown out of the building
itself. Um, and that's kind of what you're seeing outside is the trailers are really what we're doing in terms of keeping the flow of product. Um, as the containers arrive, we we try to ship as quickly as possible and we're kind of running out of space. So, what's happening at this stage is we're falling
into two problems. Number one is the trailers are are supposed to be there for a week and now they're there for three, four weeks at a time instead of just in and out and that's dragging down the effort of the building and the flow and so on. and it's not the right place to have merchandise. And the second
problem is we're starting to use 3PL's again as a supplement um to our operation and that >> excuse me tell me again what is a a 3 CPL >> 3PL sorry third party logistics meaning a public warehouse let's call it like
you know there's there's companies that have huge warehouses to so you rent space from them and then you know you store your goods there and they ship for you and so on and so forth. So you don't have a a physical control over your operation. You sort of leave it in the third party's hand and it's just very
not streamlined. It's very uncomfortable. You have to track every box that comes in and out. They bill you by by by measurements and so on. It's just a very tasking relationship. >> Okay. Now, so we've got that understood by me. Now the question that I have is
what are you doing in this building? Are you basically running a warehouse here? >> Yeah. So, I'll give you a quick synop synopsis of who we are. >> Take your time. This is important. >> Thank you. Thank you. Yeah. So, so I mean we're we're u uh let's call it
wholesale distributor. We import, we manufacture products overseas. Um sometimes domestically, but we we manufacture product accessories mostly which is like uh you know tech accessories like cell phone accessories, computer, PC accessories like a mouse, a
keyboard, uh cell phone charger, things like that. We've expanded over the years. We do some massage products. We do some, you know, health and wellness like at Walmart we sell them, you know, like a thermometer and a pill container, things like that. Um, so we've expanded into different categories. Um, so we're
basically this this building is a wholesale distribution. So the product comes in, we store it in the racking system. Customers place the order, you know, they go through the process and we ship it out. >> You're doing fulfillment. >> Yeah. Yeah. In essence, but you're
you're not selling to end users. You're selling to >> you're selling to sellers. Yeah. Retailers. Correct. >> Okay. I get it now. >> Yes. Yeah. Not to end users. to the retailer. And then in Brooklyn, we have our corporate office, which is basically our showroom. You know, it's like an
office environment where we have our secretaries and salespeople, etc., but no inventory. So, all the inventory is over here. And and to the point that I was getting to was the the space is tight now. So, we we're being forced to use 3PL again as an extension. So, we
don't really have the room anymore. So, we have two options now. We we either three options really. we either uh go back to 3PL as a supplement, which we don't willing to do at all. It's the easiest solution because it happens in a day, but it's just not not good for the
business. Our second option is to go out and and rent other space. Um where that would land is difficult to say. Is it going to be local? Is it going to be in Edison? Is it going to be in another town? You know, we we and and it's kind of annoying and hard to separate inventory. So, just imagine you have
product called A. It's it's got 1,000 pieces in stock and now um you get another 2,000 pieces in and there's no room for the extra 2,000. So you have a thousand in this building. Now your new shipment movement 2,000 has to house in a second building. That becomes challenging because now now
let's say a customer order 1500 pieces. So you got to grab a,000 from this building and 500 from that building. It creates a little bit of a mess. So it's not ideal and that's why we've been avoiding it. It's not and it's not ideal at all to separate the inventory. Um, and there's no way to consolidate it
because the inventory is peacemeal. You know what I mean? You get m product A comes in today, product B tomorrow, and then product A comes in a month later again. So, there's no way to attach it to the first shipment. It's just a new inventory. So, if you have to bring it in and there's no room, you got to put in a second building, there's no way to
merge that inventory. So, that's the the technical issues that we're running into physically. Um, so moving along the concept here. I mean, long story short, um, in 2017, we, uh, had an inauguration. We had a ribbon cutting. Um, like I said, uh, the development of
econ economic development, uh, head was at the ribbon cutting. It's on the website. You can probably see it. There's a video there. Um, and we were extremely proud of of of the place. It's, like I said, we've exponentially grown since we've come to Somerset. It's kind of a good luck charm to us. So, we
don't want to leave Somerset. We don't want to have a supplement warehouse anywhere else. we don't want to buy another building, you know. So, to us, the most common thing or common sense for us would be just to, you know, expand the current space. We have a lot a lot of land. Uh we're not using, I
would say, half of the parking spots, if not more. You know, um if we can legally get space to build, there's a couple advantages. One, we don't have to split the building into two separate locations like we referred to. two, we don't have to spend money on a new land, you know,
that's expensive, right? To go buy another property. First of all, there's nothing in the neighborhood that's for sale. That would make sense. We checked. But e even theoretically, if next door was for sale, that means you got to, you know, buy the land, renovate the building, you know, go through that whole expenditure. So, this is obviously
the most costefficient way for us to expand is because the land is ours and we just got to spend money on the structure. Um, and of course, as we expand this 30,000 square feet, we're going to expand our employee base as well. Uh, we're going to need more employees. I would say at least a dozen
or 15 more employees. So, that's going to be from the local community. Um, and you know, the concept here is it's organic. It's all organic growth. It's not like we're doing this for an investment. It's not like we're renting it out. It's not like we're doing this to make an extra buck. It's just it's
literally an organic growth that we've gotten to. um and and that we really don't have better options than to do it uh this way. Um just other thoughts. I mean, it's definitely natural for us. I just want to see if there's any other bullet points that I want to get through
and I'll I'll pass the baton over. Um I >> think you've covered everything. >> I think I did cover, right? And yeah, I mean that that's really the gist of it. That's where we're coming from. That's who we are. That's our goals. and we'd be very very um glad and proud if you
guys can help us get through this moment in our business history. Uh like I said, we're about 28 years old now. So, it's a nice stepping stone for us to move on to the next step of our history in this company and we hope that uh we'll be allotted the permission for it. So, thanks for your time again.
>> Thanks, Ellie. Okay, questions for >> Any questions? >> You mentioned several times about having to clean the place up. What was what was wrong with it? Was there contamination or something? >> Yeah. So, there's soil contamination and uh >> that's been that's all been fixed.
>> Uh yeah, they they uprooted the original, but now they're in the process of monitoring. The the seller Den Holes um has an agreement with NGA. >> If I can just just give you we we do have um
>> Oh, sorry. We do have um uh a someone here who from Verdantis who's working it's basically a monitoring a monitoring um task at this time and my understanding is that nothing is nothing that's with with regard to this um
addition is going to be affected is going to be affecting anything that's going on from the contamination but it is it's a monitoring at this time and I stay away from stuff about with uh contamination but we do Um we we we thought we we thought that there may be some questions but
everything is under control with that and this this I I believe that that um that the Misra's family and and this this use has helped to to get that kickstarted and to be completed >> and I think that's where I read there's
well wells or something. >> Yes. And and if we can defer I I do have um I do have Tom Burke from Verdantis who's going to talk about that. >> Okay. But nothing that's, you know, this this this will not affect that. But >> right, the exciting thing is the land
was left for none. I mean, nobody was looking at it. It was a ugly, disgusting building, and nobody even wanted to look at it. So, we we went out on a on a limb, so to speak, with the promises of everybody doing the right thing and monitoring and cleaning, etc. And we feel good about that choice because it
really proved to to really be successful. So, we're happy about that. >> Any other questions? Just one chair, one question, Mr. Chairman. Um, and I believe you touched on this a little bit, but if I could just ask you to address it a little more specifically. You' u you had mentioned the trailers. Um, so I had a question in
my report. It uh the site plan doesn't provide an area for trailer storage. Is the applicant changing their operations so that trailer storage is no longer necessary absence some significant changes in operations and with no dedicated area for trailer storage? There is a concern that trailers would
be stored in travel lanes or in proposed or in the proposed lawn area. >> So, if you could just address I know you address them a little more specifically. >> Excellent question. We we hate them. Simply simple as that. We hate them because number one, they cost us a lot of money. We rent them. They're not
costefficient. Number two is my employees can't stand them because every time we need the inventory in there, they got to go out there and get the product. Uh the like I said earlier, the the initial um way this started was it was temporary. Um you know, we got a container in, we're literally out of
space. What are we doing with this stuff? So, we'd be like, "Okay, just park it here for the next 3 days. We have an order coming in next week. We're going to empty it out and just ship it." And that's how it started. Um it grew uh to the point where there was more than two or three trailers. It became a
number of them. My brother's in charge of stopping this. So it it's it's cut down about 30 40% of what it peaked at. The goal is to completely eliminate this theme. It's irrelevant. We don't want it. And what's happening lately is instead of expanding this as it's
shrinking, our new solution is 3PL. We've been sending out goods to a public warehouse instead of trailers cuz it's just not costefficient either. And again, this is all tied into the need uh for this extra space. This extra space is not something we're planning on saying, "Oh, maybe we'll expand one
day." is literally we're out out of the seams. So it's like we need it tomorrow, you know, as quickly as possible. >> So So what I'm hearing then is because you we do see, you know, this board and the planning board see warehouse applications and some of a lot of them have trailer storage areas and I guess
that's a function of maybe the trucking operation. But what I'm hearing is that's not where that's not where you know we get a site plan, we see trailers. >> No, we're not storing trucks. >> You're using this because you don't have enough space. You're using those trailers to store inventory. Exactly. It's not safe. It's in terms of theft.
It's dangerous. I mean, we have a 24-hour surveillance uh camera being live watched live because of these trailers. So, we pay service that constantly. There's somebody at a desk watching the site 24/7 because of these trailers sitting there. There's inventory. There's dollars sitting
there. There's, you know, risk of theft. So, you we have to watch it. So, it's not a good ideal situation, but that's the answer. It's not trucks being rented or parked. It's inventory. >> Got it. And and with this and the the one of the intent of the of the addition is to provide you more space.
Absolutely. So you can store your materials in the building, not in the trash. Absolutely. Okay. Thank you. >> Especially when it's snowing. >> Any other questions? >> Okay. Next witness. >> Um do you open to the public? >> Yeah, we should. I guess
>> uh usually you done it with the professionals, but this is >> Okay. I I don't want to tell you how to do your job. I just >> uh we will open to the public if there's anyone who wants to ask witness a question concerning the operation of the
business. Okay, we'll close. >> We don't usually get too many questions for the >> Okay, thank you. So, uh, next I would like to call James Ward, who is our site
engineer, and he is sitting, uh, to my left next to Eli. >> Mr. Ward, if you can raise your right hand, please. Do you swear or affirm the testimony about to give before this board is truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? >> I do. >> You can just repeat your name and spell your last name for me.
>> Uh, James Ward, W A R D. >> Thank you. >> Did you read? >> Yes. >> Sorry. Okay, James. So, um just if you can just uh place the the building in in space and time, the location, the lots, the
lot sizes, the zone, um describe the existing building and the conditions on site. >> Yes. >> Um and then to the extent that you need to use any other um visual aids, please do. >> Okay. So, um, if you take a look at the
screens, I have an existing conditions aerial, uh, depicting the site conditions, um, showing the containers in the back of the building. Um, the project, we're at 655 Howard A. Um, it's a deadend street with a culde-sac. We're
just adjacent to that. Uh, on the sheet north is, uh, plan right. Uh, so we are on the easterly side of Howard A. Um and it's consists of uh three separate lots which will be uh consolidated upon
approval. Um the site plan uh has um it's uh 7.57 acres in the uh B1 zone uh requiring a conditional use for the warehouse. um existing uh site is has a
approximately 75,000 square foot uh warehouse building that's set back from the road. It's about 150 ft set back from that uh rightway. Um there's uh parking and office areas in the front and uh there's a uh additional uh
loading areas in the back and additional parking areas in the back there. Uh >> when you say see when you say the back what's the back >> the the back of the property which which is plan south. >> Oh there you go. Now you're using a a
little thing correct pointed out. Okay. So plan south right there. That's the back of the property. Uh Howard is up here on the top. >> Uh there's three existing driveways. >> Yep. >> Uh and employee parking in the front here. And there's more employee parking in the back where this the containers
are. that's actually parking under there. Uh there's six loading docks over here. Um there's, I believe, four garage doors over here. And there's a couple more garage doors uh on this side of the property. >> And and are the are the what it looks
like uh trailers uh on the back side of the property? Uh those over on the right side, those are the ones that he hopes to get rid of by this addition. >> Correct. Yes. >> Okay. So the uh so the bays, the opening
bays don't go all the way across the back of the property at this point. >> No, just right here. If you see that concrete area. >> Yeah. >> Uh that that would be the dolly pad of the uh the loading docks that are there. >> Okay. >> So there's there's six of them. >> Um so that's the existing site
conditions. And I'll go over to our proposed plan uh which shows the um 30,000 uh square foot addition in the front of the building uh maintaining uh the two driveways on uh either side of
the property. And that driveway that was in the middle, we're going to move that to the south and uh improve the employee parking area in this area. Uh we're going to be maintaining those uh loading docks that are over here, the existing ones. Um we're going to maintain those
uh man doors over there. Uh this area over here where the trailers are, we're actually going to remove the impervious cover. Um so you know that that helps us in our storm water management. Um and the existing uh the proposed building will have four additional loading docks over here. Uh the site will be
accessible by trucks from the uh northerly driveway. Will be a oneway in. uh trucks will access either this dock or the other docks that are existing uh and exit through the southerntherly driveway that will be a oneway out. Um
the driveway is a little larger than what's required as uh was previously stated and that's for the truck turning movements so we get the trucks in and out uh adequately. So the so the trucks will you know to exit they'll have to go through the
back. >> Yeah. The trucks would enter on the northerly side the northerly driveway and either access the new parking uh loading docks here or transverse in a clockwise manner to the existing ones
that are in this side. Uh and then the these over here are not docks. They're actually um uh garage doors uh rollup doors. Yeah. Drive-ins. So um >> Okay. >> So you indicated that with the
impervious coverage is being reduced. Correct. >> Uh correct. >> And what is Thank you. Sorry. And what how is that being accomplished? >> Is that that the greenery that that you've shown at the rear I guess the rear of the existing building?
>> Uh yes, correct. So um the the resulting project uh will increase the the building size obviously uh we're going from uh 22.7% to 32% where 50% is maximum. So we're in compliance there.
Uh but we will be decreasing uh the overall impervious cover by eliminating 56 parking spaces that are unneeded. Uh so we'll be providing a total of 77 spaces uh which consist of three EV spaces and four handicap spaces. Uh and
that exceeds the required parking of 67 spaces for this project. >> Um if you could go through are are we in terms of utilities um are we what are we doing with regard to utilities? Are we increasing anything? Um yeah I mean the
obviously the site is existing so we have all our existing utility connections electric sewer water and things of that nature. So that's not a tax on anything. Uh we will be be providing a uh water quality basin uh up in the front that would be a bio
retention basin uh for storm water management which site doesn't have any. When you say the front, if you could just describe where will that be in relation to the new building, is that behind I think to to the to the board member's point. What's the front and what's >> be between uh Howard Avenue.
>> Okay. >> And the proposed building. >> Okay. >> Um >> Okay. So, it's the front of the basically the front of the building. >> Correct. >> Okay. >> Yes. >> Okay. >> So, uh I just want to touch on the uh the variances uh that are required. Um
the loading area depth uh is supposed to be two times the depth of the largest truck that is required. Um the rear existing loading docks here that's about uh 115 ft and the maximum size vehicle
that we'll be using would be a WB50 uh which is about 55 ft uh long. So the required loading uh depth would be 110 ft. So we comply here being 115 ft. Um
the new one is about 120 ft and the one where the roller doors are is about 100 ft. So I think that's the one that uh the planning is saying that we need a uh a variance for um as Susan also said we
need a a parking aisle width. Uh 26 ft is required. Uh we're providing 24 in the parking areas uh which is pretty much industry standard and and suitable for the operation. Uh the access drives around will be 26 or larger for the
trucks. >> Okay, that's >> um moving on. Um there's a uh maximum number of driveways. Uh two is the maximum. As you saw from the existing conditions, we already have three. Uh we like to maintain three from an
operational standpoint. Um, so >> how does three help you? >> Um, it provides a truck circulation. Uh, basically where we're going to do a one-way in uh on the northerly side and trucks would transverse the site in a
clockwise motion. Uh, and then they would exit the uh southerntherly uh driveway >> and that's where that curb cut is a little bigger. uh so the trucks could get out without you know crossing over Howard a but Howard A is not a very busy street it's a dead end so we have no
>> but that explains two driveways >> correct and the other driveway is the employee driveway so there's an existing employee driveway in the middle of the site if I go back to the previous plan you see that existing employee driveway parking area here that's where the
employees park um so keeping those separate from the trucks and the employees uh we'd like to provide that >> you think that's a good idea. It's a health and safety issue >> to keep the trucks separate from the employees. Correct. Would that be fair?
>> Correct. Yes, absolutely. Uh one second, please. >> Uh another uh variance or waiver required for a drive aisle or driveway uh being set back five feet uh from a
property line. Uh you can see basically we have a zero setback uh in this area over here and that just matches what's the existing conditions out there. Uh it's already paved uh in that area right up to the property line. Um so that's
that and uh I think I I've already mentioned the driveway width where um 36 maximum is required and we're providing a 50 foot on that side. >> Okay. So, how many employees are there right now?
>> Uh, 30. >> And how many parking spaces will be there after this? >> Uh, 77, I think. >> Yes. A total of 77 where 67 is required. So, we actually have 10 extra parking spaces. >> Including and
>> yes, including uh EV and handicap spaces. So, >> and uh so I'll just go through the uh the site plan set real quick. Um so in case that uh triggers any other comments uh so our first sheet here we got a set
of uh 18 pages uh this first sheet is our cover page identifies the site location. Uh the second sheet had all the zoning information and I believe I touched on uh all those zoning requirements that we needed. Uh the next sheet would be our existing uh
conditions demolish demolition plan uh shows the areas to be disturbed. Um next plan is our uh site plan uh which is uh basically the same as the rendering uh that I just provided that shows all the the dimensions and
everything else uh that's required. Uh the next sheet is our grading plan uh which basically we're not changing any grades. um you know the site is is existing so we're working with the existing grading uh and that shows that the uh bio retention basin uh up in the
front between the road and the new uh uh addition to the site. Um also shows um area in the back here for um storage of uh trash storage. So we got that on there.
Uh let's see. Oh, our next sheet is uh has our utility profiles, but also the site is uh kind of a regular shape that has this little triangular piece hanging off the side there. Um it was kind of used as a uh a staging area from where
they were uh doing this site here. Um so that was disturbed. So, we're we're going to uh um you know replant and uh uh take out any um compacted material that was there and uh restore that to its original condition.
Uh and going through our landscaping plan uh you see we provide uh many many plantings in that bio retention basin. That's a requirement of that. uh plus you know street trees uh mixture of trees, shrubs uh throughout the site uh especially in the frontage um
beautifying that area. Uh we pro provide some screening for the proposed um uh loading docks over in this area. Uh this property line also uh the existing is has some existing vegetation there. So I I think we're pretty well screened uh
from the roadway for our new loading docks in that area. uh in the back here, the um area that we're going to be taking out impervious cover. We're going to put some more trees in there. Uh we have some sidewalks uh throughout the site that we're providing uh as well.
And if I go to the next one is our lighting plan where we have a mixture of uh pole mounted lights and building mounted lights which will be downfacing to uh so there's no off-site spillage of our lighting plan. Um
our next sheet uh soil erosion plan obviously has to be certified by the soil conservation district. Uh this sheet here is our vehicle circulation plan uh which shows how um the loading docks are accessible by the size vehicle that we're proposing
and uh we will restrict the the site to a WB50 truck. There's no need for any larger truck uh than that. So it's is it your understanding that that and actually I can ask Ellie that's acceptable as a condition of approval that it would be restricted to 50 WB50.
>> Okay. >> You don't need anything more than that? >> No, we don't need and we don't have in the past eight years we have it. >> Great. Thanks. >> Great. Great. Um let's see. Um, and the remaining sheets are construction details. If
>> I'm looking at the uh um the truck turning uh uh page >> and it it almost looks like the the trucks have to
go past the uh loading area on the right and then come back in up to fit in there. Why does it look like that? >> Correct. So, um the the space that we have, the trucks would come in and
basically do like a K turn and back in um to that loading spot. >> Oh, >> if if I had the ability to zoom in, I'm used to a mouse. Let me see if I could zoom in here just a little bit so we can see a little better. >> Okay. You can see the length of the
truck is only about to about here. >> Yeah. you know, so um there there's plenty of room for a truck, especially if there's another truck parked next to it. Um there's plenty of room for somebody to come back in and and maneuver back into that. >> James, what's the sheet number that you're looking at?
>> Uh I would let me uh >> if you can just for >> Yep. I'll zoom back out. Hold on a second. It's sheet number 10. Vehicular circulation plan. >> It is. >> Okay. >> Yeah. And um I think that uh pretty much
concludes my testimony. >> Are there any staff comments that apply to your uh testimony? >> Uh yes, I we uh met with the board professionals prior to this. We revised the plans in accordance with their uh their reports. Um so I think I provided
testimony on everything that was required. >> You can comply with everything. >> Yes. Yes. and any remaining items we would definitely be able to comply with. >> Okay, that's fine. >> Okay, >> any other questions? >> Just one thing I wanted to touch on as part of our review of the project with
the Atkins team, they agreed to widen out Howard Avenue and do some improvements there on the curve line. So, I just wanted to mention that they had done that on the site plan as well as the three driveways. There was a lot of discussion on making it one way in and one way out and that was done to
restrict the impervious. So, there wouldn't be three massive driveways there. It's not something else the applicant had complied with as part of initial review. >> Thanks, >> Mr. Chairman. Just a few things. Again, I just want to I appreciate you saying that you comply with staff reports, but I think there are a few questions in my
report that I think you might want to address to the board. Um, so, uh, I basically indicated that, uh, as part of this application, you're going to substantially improve the aesthetics of the of the, um, front of the of this site. Um but I did ask if you could also
add street trees along the frontage. Is that >> Yes. Yes, we'll provide street trees. >> Okay. Um the design standards talk about when you have a loading area that it really should be completely out of sight. Um the one that has the four trailers to the side is to the side of
the building. The applicant has provided proposed um evergreen trees to screen it. Um, and Howard Avenue has as as as has been discussed is not really a through street. It's not necessarily going to be viewable to the public uh except those other, you know, people
using the businesses on that street. Nonetheless, I just wanted to, you know, indicate to the board that, you know, in other similar applications where you've had loading to the side of the building, u the board has requested and the planning board a screening wall. Um, so
I just bring that to the board's attention. You know, again, this isn't Elizabeth Avenue that's being traversed by the public. It's only four loading docks and they are proposing screening, a landscape screening. But again, I just want to bring that to the board's attention just so you can maybe discuss
that, decide if that's something that you want to um have the applicant do. >> Can you tell me exactly what it is >> that you're proposing? I don't understand what it is >> in terms of the screen. Yeah, the applicant has the landscaping plan up on
the screen. Right. I know that. And they've got trees. >> Yes. >> That's what we're Are we talking about trees? >> Yeah. They're proposing uh it looks like uh six evergreen trees. I'm sure they're 6 to 8 foot high at planting.
>> Yes. Correct. Correct. So, in addition to actual deciduous trees, those would be evergreen trees that would screen that area. Uh we we thought about putting a a screen wall here, but you see we have various utilities and things running in that area, right? And that would kind of preclude that.
>> It's the word screen wall that uh >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I don't know what that is. >> I hadn't picked up on >> M. Oh, I'm sorry, Mr. Chairman. We We are We do have some renderings that are architect prepared. I can hand them out.
Um I don't think they're technically able to put them on this >> Oh, they are screen. Oh, they are. >> Oh, okay. So, are we going to Can we do that? >> Yeah, they're giving them out, >> right? Right. No, but I mean in terms of the screen in terms of putting out >> be on the screen too. >> All right.
So we can I guess so what we should do is because we can put them on the screen to answer uh the vice chair's question. I think what we should do is put them up. We're also handing out we can mark that. Um council we can mark that. Um and then I'm going to have Mr. deets can
can testify with regard to what that is and to the extent that it is um accurate about what's being planned. >> It's kind of a little bit out of out of turn, but I I know you've got a lot of questions about the screening and and the the the landscaping. So, I thought
>> this is this is the employee parking lot, correct? >> Yes. >> Correct. Did I pick that up? Oh, I'm sorry. It's not part of this program. >> Oh, that's it. There it is. Okay. So, there it is.
>> So, um, >> so we can leave that up and have Mr. Deetsz because he prepared it. I would rather have him go through the the the technical aspects of the the plant. >> Okay. Any other questions? >> Yeah. And just to confirm again, so that
two comments, one about uh we have the requirement for anti- idling signs that's going to be added and the environmental commission had some specific recommendations. You are you going to comply with those recommendations? Um well in the environmental commission uh yes there
was a part in there about EV for trucks um which the the owner doesn't have a a need for. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> But that but they had they had some recommendations specifically about the anti-idling signs. >> Yes. Okay. >> Yes, we will provide this.
>> Okay. And would the building be or the addition be solar ready? Maybe that's a architect question. >> That's for the architect. >> That's what I figured. Okay. Thank you. That's all I had. Okay. >> Anything else? I uh we'll open to the public. Anybody have a question they would like to ask
this witness? >> Okay, we'll close next witness. >> Great. Thank you so much. Uh would like to call uh Mr. >> Dece and uh yes, I'll be there. I want to be the chair. Sir, if you can raise your right hand.
Already done. Uh, do you swear or affirm the testimony about to give before this board is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? >> Yes. >> You just uh state your name and spell your last name for the record, please. >> Charles P. Deetsz, Die E TZ.
>> Thank you. >> Thank you, Mr. Deetsz. Um, if you could describe uh your qualifications, please. I have a bachelor's of architecture degree from the New Jersey Institute of Technology, New Jersey School of Architecture. I've been a licensed uh
practicing architect in the state of New Jersey for the past 38 years. I hold 14 other licenses up and down the eastern seabboard. My license >> in good standing. >> Thank you very much. >> And I've testified before this board several times.
Um, so to the extent that you um can describe the exhibit that's been handed out as well as um up on the the uh visual um screens, um I'd like you to just describe the existing building and then the materials and the layout and
then describe the proposed addition and um what the purpose of that is, the materials, the layout, and how it's going to be integrated with the existing building. >> Yes, thank you. uh the existing building. I actually have a photograph. My Pat sent you the photograph if you want to grab that. It's an existing uh
one-story building that basically the facade along all the street frontage is a standing seam metal panel very disproportionate to the height of that and the little bit of CMU block uh below
it that's painted. Uh they currently house approximately 24 foot clear for shelving and racking and pallets. It's probably the third email. Um and so what we haven't talked about here you see it on the screen. Those are the the second
one actually. >> Well Mark this is A2 by the way. >> Yeah the second picture shows you the whole building where the warehouse is. The next um this is actually architecturally it's a dual expansion. We're not only adding 30,000 there. You
can see it. So, it's disproportionate in the way you look at it architecturally. There's so much standing seam vertical siding and very little block, which is actually the structural element at the base. So, it looks topheavy. So, that was one of the things we wanted to
change about this facade. Uh but the dual expansion is a the applicant's going to gain 30,000 square ft of floor area, but almost more importantly, we're going to uh increase his height in the addition
to 36t clear, which will give him at least three more pallets to four more pallets of stacking than he currently has. So he'll actually be able to expand his capacity for storage not only 30,000 ft on the ground but vertically all
throughout there with the new racking system >> by going vertical >> and that will help to with the product and correct have to introduce the trailers >> right so you might say they've done such a you know tremendous job as a business in growth we've added this extra
capacity vertically as well which will help with any future growth for the you know long foreseeable future that they get it on the ground and they're also getting it vertically. So the new racks that will go in to this new addition will be taller and it will be able to
house at least three to more three to four more pallets high. So I think that's important to note and again modern-day warehouse 36t clear is kind of the standard these days that everybody uses. It's more efficient, it's economical and as Mr. As Rahhei
mentioned, all the other uses that they've been doing with the storage, the off-site storage, the trailers in the back just don't lend themselves to a modern business for uh you know the the economics of it and the basically uh the
flow of merchandise in and out of the building. So, I think with the help of this addition and the extra height, it's really going to be able to help him uh modernize his systems in there, have the potential for more growth while staying within this addition if this is approved
by this board. Uh secondly, as we mentioned, uh the aesthetics of the building, I think we're enhancing that even though we're going taller. The new building will be 44 feet to the parapit where the existing building is in the high 20s to the parapits. Uh, and we're
proposing >> Can we get the I'm sorry. Can we get the new >> Yeah, if you want to get the rendering back up, I think would be better. >> Put James on the spot now. >> That's why I'm not That's why I'm not operating it. Uh
so what you see in the in the far right where it has the name bite in the address that is their existing office area where the employees park in front and walk in. They are looking to maintain that entrance. But as you can see I created an architectural feature
that has the darker gray color kind of caddy corner to that 90° to that with two levels of storefront. They're looking to build a small office mezzanine on the second level. And with the extra employees, they're also looking to possibly have more office
employees as part of that. So, they're going to expand the existing office area and have both the existing and some office area bathrooms and other things that are part of the modern warehouse uh in in this new addition where we've highlighted it with the glass, an accent
color, uh a canopy to shade the glass, and then this the horizontal score lines. You'd have to really zoom in, but they're on my black and white drawings that just break up and it makes it almost look like a a veneer or a little higherend type of of concrete look. Uh,
so that's what we're proposing. This is all going to be done there. You can see it. >> So that actually gives a little texture. The score lines, again, this is all stucco, but again, if you look at the modern warehouses today's world, and I do a lot of warehouses, they're usually pre-cast or tiltup concrete. So you'll
see this design and this look in pre-cast and tiltup score lines, colors, textures. That's what breaks up of a very large blank building that doesn't have a lot of glass. We didn't want to do that here because the way the existing structure is uh and we were
going to impose too many different parameters on that building. So we're actually kind of making the new building a little more proportionate. So the first 16 feet is going to be the painted decorative block so that you now have an appropriate height of block at the base
to anchor it to the ground. And then we're proposing the balance of the height which would be another 20 plus feet in again the stucco, but we've set the stucco up to almost look and mimic like a concrete panel or a tilt wall. We're putting the control joints or the score joints in there that are both
vertically and horizontal. Again, it breaks up the monotony of a very long, boring facade without any windows. So, from the street, we're trying to get that look as if this was a modern concrete building, even though we're doing more economical products, uh, with the Stuckco, which would be up high, so
it'll be no one could reach it for damage, and then, you know, the decorative block that will be painted at the base as well. And with the introduction of the new colors, we're also proposing to repaint the existing facade that will be visible where the office area is. And any piece on the far
end that would be visible, we'll paint that to match the colors of the new addition along the front. So when the uh the project is done, it'll have an integrated look as if it could have been built all at the same time. Uh and I think that's important for both the
applicant and for you uh the town uh to to have that ability. So that was one of the strong points we wanted to get. We have proportionality, we have textures, we have colors, uh we have aesthetics, and we have this height to give him the most flexible warehouse he can possibly
have. And to answer Mr. Hilly's question, uh our structural engineer will make the roof structure when he designs it uh solar capable and solar ready if necessary. All he has to do is add that extra 5 lbs of load on the roof when he designs the roof system and they
can come back at any time if they choose to and put solar up on this roof and it won't have any structural effect or impact on the building itself. Um, as Mr. Ward mentioned, we have the four loading dock doors on the side of the
building and you can see the renderer rendition. We like to be as accurate as possible. We use Mr. Ward's landscape plan and his legend and our render is pretty familiar with the, you know, most of the landscaping that's out there. So, she tried to put in the types of trees
and shrubbery and bushes and whatnot that are going to be planted that are shown on Mr. Ward's plan, and we're trying to duplicate them as closely as possible on our rendering. So, it's not just a pretty picture. It's actually pretty accurate. I was I was looking at
that because I had it in my mind that you wouldn't really be able to see the building because of all the trees that were going to be put in um in front of the
um in in front of the new piece of the building. >> Well, what's shown in the detention area or the bio retention basin? Those are all small shrubs and low plantings that hold the walls of the basin for that slope so nothing erodess or washes away.
So even though it's very densely drawn in Mr. Ward's landscape plan, they are actually low. If you look on the perimeter of that area and when you turn the corner on the north side looking at the wareh the loading dock side, those big circles will be trees and evergreens
which she depicts in her rendering. Those will be more on the perimeter up on the street curb side and all that heavy growth will be in the middle will be down low and to be supportive of the bio retention basin that Mr. Ward has designed. So it'll look pretty but they
won't really screen much maybe other than the foundation but the taller trees and shrubs are meant to be along the perimeter and then again when you get over to the loading dock side on the north end of the building. So, the whole building is going to be visible from the street
>> pretty much. If you look at that very corner, there's a series of trees like those two street trees. There's a series of those. So, you'll see through it. And obviously, they're deciduous, so in the winter time, the leaves will fall off. But that's why I'm trying to provide you with a a better aesthetically pleasing
design of the building than what's currently there with a warmer earth tone colors, the score lines, the decorative materials, and it'll I think it'll focus more people as they drive down uh the street to look at more at that than to
say, "Oh, wow. I can see the building uh because it is closer to the road." But I think better aesthetics, the accent of all the landscaping and the the nice colors, I think are going to enhance this property even though we're enlarging in the front yard. I think to
to what is going to basically make a better property and a better showing on the street than what's there today. >> So, I'm looking at the the rendering. >> Yes, sir. And the the new piece of the building is
to the left in in that picture. And we have windows and doors. Then it goes up a level and we have some sort of material that basically runs horizontally. And then I can't understand what I'm looking at above
that. The dark the darker warm gray is the same stucco but just in a warmer gray color than the lighter gray that we're proposing for the rest of the facade. And it's basically score lines. It just helps break up a big blank facade that might be 60 ft long and 30
ft in the air. >> What is >> those are more windows. Like I said, we're going to propose a small mezzanine in that area. So, they're going to have natural light as well. That's the only place we're proposing uh new windows is the first floor, ground floor office area and the small mezzanine office area
to get natural light in for his employees there. >> Okay. >> The rest of the building will just be solid wall, no no lighting, natural lighting. >> But again, we're accentuating that as a focal point to tie into the existing office. So, we treated that with a different color, the glass, a little
more scoring to make that special, make it look like a focal point when you come down the street versus just looking at a giant warehouse. Uh, I think it just breaks up the monotony. And you can see that we're taller than the existing building. We are bumping up, like I said, another 10 ft give or take to get
that height that we need. Uh, but again, I think aesthetics have been improved 150% from what's there today, both in proportionality, colors, and textures. So, I think even though we're we're coming out into the front yard, this is going to have such a better street
presence than it does today. and then repainting the existing building to bring itself into the same warm colors that we're proposing on the addition. It could possibly look like this was all constructed at one time, which is you don't want that hard line of, oh, that's
old, this is new. If I can homogenize them and blend them in there, that's always our goal. And I I think we we achieve that here and we we will if we get to move forward. Well, I think you're you've done a pretty good job showing that warehouses don't have to be
uh >> rectangular. >> Correct. They're a big shoe box. So, how do architects have to figure out a way? Correct. How do we make them not? So, between the score lines, the change of colors, banding, windows, little canopies, any little thing we can do to
try to break up a 100,000 or 200 or 300,000 square foot warehouse. >> That's what I've been doing. Right. And I've been doing that for the last 10 years since, you know, >> and it's a still still a functional warehouse. >> Yes. >> So I feel like I' I've done enough warehouses now. I did them 35 years ago
and then we stopped and then about 10 years ago when it got hot again after we came out of the recession and the Amazons and the Google world started building these giant boxes, we were right back into the mix and and I have eight right on the my drafting boards right now besides this one. So, we're
constantly turning over and doing new warehouses and trying to come up with new colors and new scoring patterns to kind of make them, you know, look acceptable uh to the neighbors, to the township, and to the applicant. >> We have other questions. >> Just one thing I just wanted to clarify
for the board. So, a lot of the low growth that plantings you see in front of the new warehouse aren't going to be visible from the road because there's a 3-ft wall for the basin. So, they're going to be below grade. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> So, when you're looking at the plan, it's going to be a little different than what you're seeing on the screen with that wall. >> She put the back wall in. She didn't put
the front wall in. In the rendering, you can see that little bit of white. That's the back wall sticking up. There's actually a similar wall in front. But what that growth does, like I said, that helps stabil, and I'm not an engineer, but that stabilizes the soil in that slope so you don't get erosion. If that were to ever fill up in a, you know,
100year storm, uh, you won't lose the banks of this thing because it'll be so stabilized because of the plantings. Any other questions? >> He's finished. >> If I can make one last thing, the standard note I do on every testimony, no matter what I'm designing, we will
have parapits on these buildings. So mechanical is very minimal in a warehouse because they're not being cooled. They're just being ventilated. And then we'll have heaters inside. So if we have a little bit of equipment on this roof, it'll be screened by the parapits of the building and they'll be placed towards the middle of the
building. >> Okay. Don't run off too quickly. Anybody? We'll open to the public. Is there anyone who'd like to ask this witness a question? Okay, we'll close next. >> Thank you. >> Thank you so much. Um, thank you, Mr.
Deetsz. Um my next uh our next witness is Tom Burke from uh Verdantis who can address some of the um existing conditions and what the what the what the property was like when they
>> Mr. Burke, if you can raise your right hand, do you swear or affirm that the testimony you're about to give before this board is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? >> I do. >> Just repeat your name and spell your last name for the record, please. >> Sure. Tom Burke. B U R K E. Thank you.
>> Great. Thank you. Okay, Tom. Um just if you can briefly describe or not briefly describe um what you what your uh your professional background um your um what you what you currently work for what your roles are and um then we'd like you
to go into describing Verdantis what Verdantis is doing at the property and um describe also what your understanding is of what the property was like when when our client bought the property. >> Sure. Uh so my name is Tom Burke. I'm a
senior project manager with Verdantis. We're an environmental consulting company uh based in Somerville, New Jersey. Uh I've been an environmental consultant in New Jersey for 19 years now. And I'm also a licensed site remediation professional. Uh so we were hired um by the applicant
to complete the environmental assessment for the property which was required by the township. Um we completed that report and as documented in the report you know we didn't find any environmental impact from the proposed project. Um there is
an ongoing environmental cleanup at the site. Uh the site was historically uh used for manufacturing. Um there was contamination. The previous owner uh has agreed to remediate the contamination. There's an administrative
consent order uh established with NJT uh that they are working to clean up the site. They've cleaned up the soil contamination and there is still remaining groundwater contamination which they are monitoring and which is the reason why there's a network of monitoring wells across the site.
>> Um >> what what what exactly does that mean? >> Um so there is groundwater contamination. Um as I mentioned they cleaned up the soil contamination. So the next step is just essentially to monitor the contamination and they've uh delineated it and they've uh determined
that it is not impacting any receptors. So they're coordinating with NJP to get a permit to just allow it to be monitored uh to ensure that it naturally degrades and it does not impact any receptors. >> Okay. >> When you say receptors, what does that mean? >> Uh like any go travel offsite to impact
any portable wells, any any impact any anything. So basically it's not causing any problems. >> Not causing any issues. >> Not impacting anything. So it just needs to be monitored. >> What what exactly is it that they discovered? >> So it's um there it's coronated solvents. Uh it's a pretty common
contaminant. Um it's a solvent that was used on all all sorts of industrial operations. Uh TCE and PCE are the main contaminants. Uh they're common contaminants in dry cleaners, industrial operations, and so they're in the groundwater. And um like I said, there's
a the responsible party is the previous owner. They're remediating the site. They have a licensed site remediation professional who's working on the site. >> No, that's a good point. >> And we are I've been coordinating with her to make sure she's aware of this
proposed addition. And you know, there's no the proposed addition won't have any impact on their monitoring. There are some monitoring wells that that are in the area uh which we'll have to coordinate relocating but other than that there won't be any uh impact uh from the project.
>> So so in your opinion the physical changes to the property will not have any impact on the monitoring wells. I know you said you you have to relocate some of them. >> Correct. Yes. Some of the wells will have to be relocated but the project will not impact the monitoring. >> Okay. Okay. Thank you.
>> Any questions? >> I I have one. Um so the testimony from the engineer was that there was a bio retention basin which in essence infiltrates the water. Correct. >> Uh the basin will be lined with an under drain. >> Thank you
>> Mark. No, he answered that last question was exactly and I think Darren was going to say ask the same question which is basically you know obviously this board doesn't have any jurisdiction over over this contamination issue but the you know the fact that he's he's testifying that what the what they're asking the
board to approve isn't going to affect the ongoing monitoring. My opinion I think that's probably really what the board needs to hear. Otherwise I think that's I think that's the extent of that issue for this board. Does it say somewhere in the application that the
that that retention basin will be lined? >> It's it's on >> those details are on the plan. >> Okay. >> And is there just ongoing monitoring or ongoing remediation also?
>> Uh right now it's ongoing monitoring. >> Um there's no plans for any excavation in the area or anything like that. >> Okay. Anyone else? We'll open to the public again. Is there anyone who'd like to ask this witness a question?
>> Okay. Okay. We'll close and I guess planner time, right? >> Okay. Yes, we have our uh >> Sean Sean Moratsky. >> Sean, uh if you can raise your right hand. Thank you. Uh do you swear or affirm the testimony about to give
before this board is truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? >> I do. >> Just repeat your name, spell your last name for the record, please. Sure. >> It's Sean SA Moransky. M O R O N S K I. Thank you. >> Thank you, Sean. Um can you um just go
over briefly your educational background and your professional um your professional uh >> I'm what you do who you >> who I am and what I do. Um I'm employed by um Langan Engineering and Environmental Services in Paripony, New
Jersey. Um, I'm New Jersey licensed professional planner since the year 2000. My license is current and in good standing. Member of the American Institute of Certified Planner since 1999. Before that, I received a masters of urban planning from New York
University. Um, I have testified before many boards in this area. It's been a while since I've testified before the board in Franklin. Too many years to count. >> I think we're okay with that. >> But fewer than 25. Uh, >> okay.
>> Well, no, you never mind. All right, Sean, thank you for that. Um, if you can um >> describe Well, I know you have an outline, but what I'd like you to make sure that you cover what this is a D uh D2 use variants. I'd like you to go through what those variant standards are.
>> Yes. Um, but I first just um I have um an aerial map um that's up on the screen. Um >> why don't we mark this is A3 >> three. Um at the center of the map is the project site. It is outlined in red
hatching and this this aerial and it'll play into the testimony as we go along shows the context of the area where we're located. Um along Howard you have similar type of uses, light industrial office, an element of warehouse uses.
And as you go onto the other roads, campus drive, Cottontail, it is of a similar use. And and the area that's shaded in blue is the BI business and industry district, which permits general and per u professional offices, laboratories, data
centers, light manufacturing, self storage, um administrative and dispatching services. the idea that these are the uses um all of a similar uh scale and put the distance um if you draw a straight line it's about 3400 ft
to uh the I287 interchange um when you map it on Google or Apple Maps it's approximately 8/10en of a mile um for a drive and that drive does not go through um residential neighborhoods such as the
north of 287 which is the R10 zone Now, um, M. Rub mentioned about the D2 uh, variance because the warehouse is not specifically permitted in the BI zone, but that prior to the resoning, it
was a principal permitted use. Um, their their use is grandfathered. However, because we are proposing expansion of the use and the changes that have been outlined in the previous testimony, we
need to have a a D2 variance um granted. And the the use um itself, an expansion can be it's it's not just an expansion of the size per se. It could be a it could be a reduction in the lot area,
which is not the case. But as we'll also show this expansion is also reducing some aspects of the site which are going to provide an overall benefit. Um the site is particularly uh suited. It can accommodate the project at certainly at the scale of the surrounding um light
industrial uses. Could we put this site plan on the screen please? >> Rendering. >> The rendering is fine. Yes. It's okay. I can I can continue. Um, we have convenient access um to the local roadways and the I287.
As was noted, the site can accommodate the improvements, permit the additional operations, whether it's the raising of the roof for the the additional building and for the trucks uh to have the 360 circulation with the one with each driveway, one way in, one way out. This
expansion actually reduces the number of parking spaces still having an adequate amount to service the site and um it reduces impervious coverage. Um we further several purposes of zoning purpose a to encourage action um that in
a manner that promotes public health, safety and general welfare. While we're expanding the warehouse, it's in a light industrial area that has sufficient space for the improvements. uh purpose D providing sufficient space and appropriate location for a variety of uses according to their respective
environmental needs. Um we're improving um we're improving the storm water management. We're reducing the impervious coverage. Um the testimony requiring regarding the environmental monitoring um there's going to be a lining in the uh detention basin in
addition to the aesthetic improvements um that Mr. deets um outlined and purpose m encouraging coordination of various public and private procedures shaping land development with a view of lessening the cost of such development and more efficient use of the land. We
have the land available here. Uh the project allows for a modest expansion to accommodate the operations while reducing the overall impervious coverage. We do have to address a negative criteria that the the benefits
and when we talk about benefits it's not just a cruise to the owner but also the overall public benefit of the of the application outweigh the detriments of which I don't believe they're minimal at worst. Uh there's no substantial
detriment to the public good. Um as we've noted the storage trailers which have been used for inventory are being removed. They're they're not going to be parked on the site. There are not going to be trailer spaces. The idea is where trailers come in, pick up, drop off,
inventory, and leave. And the the with the additional warehouse floor area were able to do that. Uh the new circulation and parking layout addresses it addresses on-site parking needs. It also minimizes the uh potential for conflict
between car and truck parking. and the improvements update the site, storm water management, the landscaping, the aesthetics. Uh there's no substantial detriment to the zoning ordinance or zone plan. We're in the BI zone which the specific purpose is to provide sufficient space
and appropriate location for a mix of office, laboratory, light, industrial, manufacturing, and other such compatible uses which provide opportunities for job creation and taking advantage of Franklin's location. Um there we're at a site convenient to the regional highway
network. We're going to be adding jobs with adding capacity um to the site and it is it is convenient uh for traffic um traveling to and from the site. Uh we're land use goal two which was carried
forward in the 2016 re-examination encouraging commercial and industrial development in areas uh with access to the highways and in established areas. Um as the uh Ariel noted this is a wellestablished business and industry
area. Uh the site itself um the expansion on with having the size and scale with the regional conduct connectivity and the comparatively similar uh uses in the area and we believe it's consistent with this goal.
We also have C variances though they had been noted. I believe they can all be granted under the C2 criteria where the benefits of the overall project outweigh um the detriments that may occur from granting of the variance. We'll first start with the loading area um which is
based on the double the size of the large longest truck WB50. So it's 55 ft. um four of the uh I'll call them loading spaces but where the rollup doors are um proposed at the south side is 51 12 ft.
Um the condition is sim similar to what exists now and then the drive aisle area um is noted on the site plan is approximately 40 ft in addition to that 51.5 ft. Um, so I do believe there's sufficient um area for circulation and
the truck turning templates uh did show that circulation. Um the site access is improved with the proposed loading areas as they're designed. With regards to parking lot aisle width,
um the 24 foot aisle width is is focused on the front car parking area. 24 foot drive aisles um in car parking areas are common whether it's in RSIS standards or in many commercial uses. The 24 ft
provides adequate circulation area so that cars can circulate in and out of spaces and traverse through the car lot. Um maximum number of driveways um we have three now we're permitted two. We're proposing three as was noted. The
the center driveway and I see we have um the plan up and the hand is po is pointing at it. Um there's a two-way automobile driveway. The idea is to encourage automobiles to go where the where they first see the parking and
then the two other driveways will remain one way in, one way out um in order to facilitate the 360 circulation. for the trucks. Um I believe we further the same purposes of zoning that I outlined for the D2 variants. Um in
terms of the negative criteria, um the curb cuts, uh it doesn't hinder through traffic, I think it reduces the potential for conflicts, especially and with regards to the loading docks. The largest vehicle is a WB50.
Um the design while improving circulation also reduces impervious coverage and for with regards to there's no substantial detriment to the zoning ordinance of zone plans. I refer to um the rationale I use for the D2 variance with regards to the intent and purpose
of um the BI ordinance and the land use goal number two that I mentioned. Uh so for the reasons I've outlined um I request you uh grant the requested variances. Thank you. Any questions? No questions. Okay, I'll open to the
public. Anyone have a question for this witness? >> No. Then we'll close. Thank you. >> Actually, I I had a question for um for the the owner. Um, I know the trucks come in
and they um they'll drop off product. How does the product get to your customers? Do you do you send trucks out? >> Yes. So, I'll describe it in short. Um, the containers come from the port,
right? From the uh Newark port mostly. >> Uh, we have a 2-hour window uh from when the driver arrives until they have to leave. other if we stay more than two hours is a fee. So they give us a heads up. They tells us XYZ driver is coming. Container so and so is arriving. Our
team plans for it. We know what's coming. We know what model numbers are arriving etc. Containers arrive. There's six docks. Um and there's there's um six docks. Let's focus on that. So the first three docks, let's say, are incoming. So
we have two or three containers at a time for that day. you know, we won't bring 10 containers. Obviously, we'll take what we can handle. So, we take two or three containers in, they line up, one's done, he leaves, the other one continues. So, we have a team that receives, they're called the receiving
team, right? And then there's another team that's fulfilling orders simultaneously. That team um from morning from 8:00 a.m. until around 4:00 p.m. are what we do. They basically um palletize all the the orders. We have POS that we schedule in
the morning. These are the POS that are going to ship out today. Um there's an X amount of orders, X amount of pallet positions and so on. They stage them all up. We have an area where we stage. So throughout the day, there's the pickers and the packers going through the bin numbers, etc. They stage the orders.
They shrink rack them. They license plate them. And then throughout the day, I would say around 2:00 p.m. until uh 5, uh there's trucks that are either coming collect or prepaid. So, some retailers will send us their uh trucks, you know, whether it be like a Target or a
Walmart, they'll send us their trucks, you know, scheduled obviously, and then we have their um orders lined up. They come, they take them. Now, that's usually on the other three loading docks. The three that that are not being used for income are the outbound loading docks. So, that's more or less the
system. And then we have another three doors that are not for um not for in and out but more for uh like UPS and the garage doors. >> Yeah, the garage doors. Exactly. Where they can come in and stuff like that. So that's generally the theme. Uh that's
generally how it works. Um so there's usually a 2-hour window for the containers to arrive and and leave. So it's a rotation. >> Okay. So, so then the the trucks that come to pick up
materials to take to other locations, are those tractor trailers as well? >> Those up to 53, Danny, right? Yeah, they're up to 53. Some of them are 40s. Uh, but the maximum they send are 53s trailers. Yeah. >> Okay.
>> And 53 is the WB50 or is it the WB67? >> He knows better than me. WB50 >> WB50 53 footer I think I was >> 53 footers or the WB67. >> Yeah. Sorry. So it's a WB50. Danny Danny's more experienced with that stuff.
>> And go ahead. >> And those those trucks do where do they go? >> The ones that are picking up. >> Yeah. >> They just come for about half hour and they leave. They go to the the DCs
usually distribution centers for the retailers. >> Okay. >> It's a local distrib. I mean, it's all various >> because one of the things that we're having a problem with in this town is um tractor trailers being on uh residential
streets or uh secondary or tertiary roads. I live down in the Griggstown part of town and every once in a while I see a picture of a tractor trailer trying to go across the onelane bridge. Oh, no. It's >> not exciting. >> It's not pretty. >> No, that's not.
>> So, I'm just trying to find out if you are contributing to that problem. And I would consider that to be a a detriment. You know, you were talking before about there are no detriments, but this seems
like a a detriment except they're not really going to to retail locations. They're going >> No. 287, >> right? He's making a point. The 287, as you saw in the map, is about >> 8/10 of a mile away. So, they're not
really going into the neighborhoods for me. Right. So, they're coming right off the 287 to my warehouse, which is probably about 10 blocks away from the 287. >> Yeah, I I had noted that the the route, although that's just a straight line, but if you follow the roads, we don't
traverse into residential neighborhoods. And I appreciate that you did it not only in terms of feet, but in terms of ten of a mile when you did that, >> right? >> And to address your point, they are not going to stores. I mean, we don't deliver to mom and pop or to >> I just wanted to drill down a little bit.
>> They're going straight into the highway to their distribution centers. Some of them are in Pennsylvania, some of them in California. Um, I wouldn't say California. It's usually in the East Coast that they're that they're picking up from us on. >> All right. Any other questions?
Okay. You're finished with the presentation, correct? >> Yeah. I mean, I I can just give a brief summary. >> I'll let you do that after we open again to the public. >> Got >> and uh we'll allow anyone who wants to make a comment or other statement
concerning this application. Doesn't have to be a question. Okay, we'll close now. Go ahead. >> Okay. Yeah. I I just very briefly because I I never like to give summaries of other professionals who have
testified very well. Um but I would like to just summarize basically to say that this expansion is permitting is is positive. It's permitting the number of parking spaces to be reduced. We're reducing the impervious coverage. We're
increasing the the visual appeal um in and uh in connection with the the the building the the way the building is being um uh created and and um mer made to blend in with the existing structure
as well as the the landscaping. Um the area it's and then just in terms of the detriment this this isn't an area that's not near residences. It's a a dead end. Um and it it really has, as we've as
we've testified, low impact um on the traffic getting to the highway. Um we're not going to be going through residential areas. Um so, you know, not to belver the point, but I I think it's a great application and I would uh ask the board to please approve it,
grant the variances, and approve the site plan. >> Okay. Anything else from the board? questions, comments, or motion. >> Mr. Chairman, just to maybe frame a uh a motion, I I don't my notes, I don't believe there was any additional
conditions beyond um what's on the plans and recommended in the reports. Um Brian Le, >> I think there was the size of the trucks. That was a condition. >> Oh, okay. I missed that one. What was that? >> That was uh the council could probably >> Yeah, I think it was the WB50.
>> Yeah. Yeah, that that would be the letter. >> No, no larger than the WB50 truck >> was a condition of approval. >> That's Darren's letter though. >> Any other any other thing, Brian, that you have in your notes? >> No, other than what's in the reports, the anti- idling sign.
>> Yeah. So, well, that would be So, again, I think that was in the reports. Okay. Um, so I think, you know, if the board was inclined to approve, I think it would be conditioned with, you know, the plan submitted, the material submitted, the reports, the compliance with staff reports, the WB50. Um, I did bring up
with a question about a screening wall. Um, I I don't think I didn't see the board jumping on that. Um, I think, you know, I'm I'm not really even sure if that amounts to a waiver of that design standard. I think the design standard speaks to um the use of landscaping
walls or fences. U the fact is that they are by by virtue of the distance of that loading area from Howard Avenue and the landscaping that's proposed in front of it including within the um um uh uh retention basin and frankly just the
overall improvement to the aesthetics of the site. Um you know I I don't think that's uh that's probably the reason why the board didn't jump on that. So you might, you know, perhaps you'll reflect that somehow in the resolution. Right. >> I I I had a
I had a thought about uh perhaps adding a condition that um uh that the uh uh their distribution will be to uh wholesale um
wholesale entities only and will not involve distribution to retail sites. Um, it seems to me that that's that's what you're doing. And and as I said in
Franklin, the one of the big issues is um is big trucks going down little streets. >> Okay. So, I don't think that would be a problem if we included that as part of the uh >> I I would like to understand it's really
not a zoning issue, planning issue. um you it's you're trying to with respect dictate how they conduct their business and I think the testimony has been clear that as far as what they do. So, I think
if we can phrase something that isn't going to that to that in that regard, um I I'm not comfortable restricting having a condition of an approval that is talking about how they conduct their
business. Um >> well, we do that all the time here. Maybe they don't do it the other places you've been. >> No, no, no. I mean conducting mean in terms of >> when you start, when you close, when your lights are on, when your lights are off.
>> No, that I I understand. So if if you I'm not understanding what it is the issue is that you have so that we can structure a condition that addresses that issue. Then >> uh I don't want them I don't want people picking up at their location and driving
down to Route 27 and stopping at different businesses there and dropping off a couple here and a couple there. All that sort of stuff which is not what they do, right? >> But you see what happens is things change over time and we don't want them
to be changing in that direction. >> All right. So if we can So that that's helpful to clarify and that's that comports with what what we've testified to. >> I I have no issues with that as only we word it properly because you mentioned sorry you had mentioned um wholesale
versus retail. So let's just make sure we word it properly. Meaning we are selling to retailers. Right. Right. Oh yeah. But we're not delivering to retail stores. Right. Right. So we got to be careful how we word that. >> Okay. In other words, even a retail store buys wholesale, but that's one
store. So, we're not doing that. We're not delivering to Mr. Joe's uh pharmacy or whatever, right? >> So, that's that's fine. We're not intending on doing that and so on. >> Okay. >> Um as long as we word it properly and it doesn't retract from what we're doing. >> Beautiful job. >> Thank you.
>> Well, if I can make a suggestion because, >> you know, I always caution the board about conditions that are hard to enforce. >> Yeah. >> And this is about as impossible to enforce. You mean the other things we talked about turning the lights off at a certain time. I mean those things we could send an inspector out to see if
the lights were off after 10:00. I mean if we had to. I don't even know how we enforce that. >> I don't know how you control where a driver goes once he leaves the facility. >> I I would certainly you know I think it would be a good practice to put a description of the use that was proposed
to the board and that is what you are approving. Right. But, you know, I don't know if I want to be in a situation where I'm asking for their manifests and uh following their trucks around. So, I mean, that's an absurd, you know, thing. But, >> no, but that's good. That puts me in my place.
>> So, so again, I my recommendation, my preference would be to have a a good description of what they proposed to you and making it clear that that's what you approved. >> And we'll have that in the resolution. >> Thank you. >> I'm okay with that, obviously. Yeah, >> that would be in the resolution.
Okay. Then if there's no other issues, we're looking for a motion. >> What is the name of the applicant? Is it 665 Howard Avenue? >> 6655 Miss >> Yeah. What is it?
>> Well, 65. >> Okay. I I move that we grant uh 655 Miz uh the uh uh Dvarian and C variances that they have requested to allow them
to build um uh the uh an additional uh portion of warehouse on their existing uh property. And I I think everything else is included. We didn't need to add anything else, did we? >> No. >> Just the truck thing.
>> And no. And the we we're not going to do that. I >> went under the uh WB50. >> The type of truck. >> Oh, yeah. The the W >> size uh of truck shall be uh limited in
size to WB50 and smaller. >> Second. >> I second. I said >> there were three of you that answered second. It's >> okay. Uh Richard Panic,
>> yes. >> Vine Verdas, >> yes. >> Alan Rich, >> yes. >> Gary Rosenthal, >> yes. >> Robert Shepard, >> yes. >> Lakia, >> yes. >> Chairman Thomas, >> yes. >> Wonderful. Thank you so much. >> Okay. Good luck with that.
>> Yeah. Good luck. >> Thank you to everybody for listening. I appreciate it and thank you for the grant. >> Okay, next we have Tahi Dawa Center ZBA 9417 amended preliminary and final site plan
plus relief of condition in which the applicant is proposing construction of a 19,350 ft place of worship 630 South Middleush Road Somerset block 37.02 2 lot 46.03
in the zone A >> project >> just to >> for this application just to keep things up front ahead of time. We don't uh generally take new testimony after 1000
p.m. So it's 9:20. Let's see if we can get underway and see how far we get. >> Um, do you have any >> Mr. Chairman? My name is Brian Schwarz. I'm representing the >> mic.
The mic. >> Push that down. >> There you go. Thank you. >> Close. Mouth is closed to the re the microphone. >> That's why everybody was sitting down here. That's right. >> From the cheap seats, you can't tell that stuff.
>> Um, Mr. Chairman, Mr. Hack, board members, my name is Brian Schwarz. I'm representing Tawi Dawwa Center. That's T A W E D. We clarified that in the past couple days. Um, as you just said, we're here for basically a amended,
preliminary, and final and relief from conditions primarily relating to the um the parking. Um, I'm not going to talk a lot because you want to hear from the professionals. We have the same uh group of professionals as was here back in the
hearings in 2019 through 2021. We are going to limit our testimony to what the changes are to the amend to the amended um site plan and address the parking issue. So, we we do have um my client, Mr. Razi who's going to speak
for the center and then we have four professionals but I'm hoping their testimony is going to be relatively short not the usual I don't like to use the term dog and pony show but you know >> you mean you don't anticipate this is going to take a year like the last approval
>> um if it takes a year I may not be around to see the end of it so I I don't want to no it should not it should be a very circumscribed application very seriously >> in terms of uh you mentioned the conditions that you're proposing amending
uh does that mean the conditions that you don't bring up then are all agreed to there's no discussion necessary the answer is yes but Mr. Um um Arban is going to be here to explain that. He will he will talk about the conditions
and it's an odd situation because it was a conditional it was a approval of a conditional use but the relief we're looking for is from conditions in a resolution. And so I I want to clarify that could took me a while to get that straight.
>> Well the conditions in the resolution you needed those in order to get your approval. >> That's right. And there's a couple there's there's probably two um that u we're asking for a modification and they relate really to parking. All right. And
we will address that. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Mr. Chairman, may I interrupt? Sorry. I'm I'm here on behalf of an interested party. May I make an appearance get started? >> Do do that again only closer to the mic. >> Sorry. May I make my appearance before
we launch into the application? I'd like to to establish my my appearance and um my client's interest um just briefly outline um what we see as the issues if I if I may. I'm here to represent an objector or an interested party, however
you want to to call us. Um my name is Martina Bailey. with Mueller and Bailey and I'm representing Ry and and John Snyder um who own and operate the Snyder farm which is uh directly next to this site on the northeast side. Um you'll
recall um ladies and gentlemen that we participated in the hearing of the Dada Bwan application which this approval seeks to amend. um my clients and we were instrumental in shaping those conditions, some of which um the
applicant is seeking to modify with tonight's application. Um and you know so my clients really have a very vested interest in um what happens tonight and in essentially in seeing those conditions preserved and respected to
the extent possible to the extent that this application presents a new use a new religion a different religion and we think quite significantly intensifies the use on this property. we would be looking for additional conditions that um we we think need to be put in place
um both to to preserve some of the existing conditions um but also to reflect the changed circumstances and um I I did submit a letter dated yesterday that's November 19th to the board. I briefly outlined um so the buckets of of
those concerns and principally that's uh the traffic um which of course there was a lot of discussion about at the at the data bwan application but um I note that the traffic report in this instance um really doesn't acknowledge at all that
there are two two other neighboring uses which also have public events and this includes the uh the temple that was approved across the street the um temple which is a much larger facility but also has frequent visitors.
>> Mr. Chairman, is this u is this testimony? I mean, it sounds like we're getting testimony here. I'm >> I'm not testifying, so I'm I'm just outlining my my client's concerns and and what we um you know, what we'd like more information on.
>> I did read your letter and I'm aware of what uh your comments are. or maybe we should let this application get started and then see what we need to deal with >> certainly >> and not have it be conjecture. >> I I appreciate that. I I'd like to just
say finally that we we would reserve the right to also present witnesses assuming that this application will get carried this evening. So >> Okay. Well, we'll see how it how it goes. Right now he's talking about uh mainly discussing the conditions and
specifically you mentioned two uh what 26 and 27 out of 30. So if your goal was to see that the uh previously approved conditions remain in effect. It sounds like
they're looking at uh two changes out of 30. So let's see what what they are. >> So it's it's more than that. But it's also storm water management and I'd like to >> I don't know if it's more than that. We'll see. >> Okay. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Okay. Continue. >> Yes. Mr. Chairman, I'd call Angel Rozie.
>> Mr. Rosie, if you can raise your right hand. >> Do you swear or affirm the testimony you're about to give before this board is truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? >> Yes. >> Can just repeat your name and spell your last name for the record, please. >> Nim Razi. A N J U M R A Z.
>> Thank you. You're welcome. Uh >> Mr. Razi, what is your involvement with the applicant Taweed Dawa Center? >> So I am a trustee and a one of the co-founder for Tawi Dawa Center. >> And are you authorized to speak on
behalf of the uh of the center? >> Yes sir. >> How many congregants I'm not sure congregate is the right word, but how many congregants does your mosque have? about uh for time being about 65 to 75.
>> And where are you where are you meeting right now? >> Uh we have uh we've been doing this for Tavi Dava Center was established in 2019 uh 19 and we have two other locations. One is in Piscatway and the second one
is in Edison. >> And what kind of locations are they? >> Uh they are religious places just like Dava Center in Somerset. And what's your intention of how you want to use the building that you want to build on this property? >> Uh intention to you to help the
community and uh uh bring the prayer place to the Somerset PE uh people who lives in the area. >> It's going to be a center for for prayer meetings. >> Yes. >> There the existing house on the building is going on the property is going to
remain correct. >> Yes, it is. >> What's that going to be used for? that is going to be used for imam residence. >> And in fact, one of the imams is here tonight, right? >> Yes. >> Um how many imams does your mosque have? >> Uh two imams.
>> And we um submitted as part of the application a document we called statement of proposed use of property. If you want me to mark this, I can. I I've actually marked it as A1. >> Yeah. Yeah. Why don't we mark as A1? That's >> okay. It was it was um it was part of
the application submission. >> Uh no, you I just I I know what it looks like. >> Now, Mr. Rozie, you and I worked on this um this document together, did we not? >> Yes. >> And I'm just going to since the board
already has this, and I just want to get your sworn testimony of what it says. Um, the use of the property is going to be limited to religious worship and indoor prayer meetings. >> Yes, it is. >> Are there going to be any activities outside?
>> No outside activities at that property. No. >> And you understand you have to apply for a special event permit if you're going to have any kind of high holy day events or weddings or funerals that might have let's say more than excuse me 80 or 100 people. Yes, we will apply for permit
but at this place we are not doing any funeral uh services or any wedding services. We are only doing the prayers which is immediate family will come for weddings and immediate family will come for the funerals.
>> Okay. Next says the facility will not be rented out or used for other organizations. >> No nothing at all. >> And and the house isn't going to be rented out. It's not going to be a B&B or anything like that? >> No. No. >> And no outdoor activities? >> No out outdoor activities.
>> Any outside music or proessions or anything like that? >> No. This is a religious place, so we don't have music. Uh we don't even allow music at all. >> Now, you're aware that due to the septic design limitations, there cannot be more
than 458 people on this site during any 24-hour period. Do you understand that? >> Yes, I understand that. And in fact, you're not getting you're not planning getting close to that number. >> No, we are not even near that number. >> All right, let's talk about your prayer sessions. How many times a day do does your mosque hold prayer prayer meetings?
>> Five time fajar assa meaning 6:00 a.m. 100 p.m. afternoon, 5:00 p.m. evening, 700 p.m. evening, and 9:00 p.m. at night time. >> How long do each of those prayer meetings uh last?
>> About half hour each. How many people do you typically get right now to those prayer meetings? >> Uh to starting out I I believe we will have about 25 30 people per pair per prayers except Fridays.
>> Uh what what's different on Fridays? >> Friday is a larger group of people come. So we are expecting about 75 people. >> Um during Ramadan do you get larger groups? Ramadan we have 30 days Ramadan we receive uh more people but for the
bigger event uh we we have another location in Piscatway holiday in and suite we rent the entire hall and that's where we do all our services so as the big Eid event
>> you were telling me earlier that where you are right now there's at one of the locations there's also an Indian temple and that you work with them to adjust the uh the traffic in terms of the number of when you what time you have
your your prayer meetings. Is that accurate? >> Yeah, that is the ideal location. Uh we have one location in Addison. uh we are renting half of the size which is about 5,000 and the mandr is on the other side and we share our parking and
uh we have uh our practice going for a long time and there is no issues whatsoever. >> Um we we'll eventually uh take a look when when Mr. ministry testifies will look at the floor plan, but there's small rooms around the outside of the
meeting, >> right? >> The prayer meeting room, correct? >> What What are those rooms used for? >> So, we invite other imams from different state, means Chicago or somewhere else, and they come and they give special lectures to our people. So, that's what
we use some special rooms while we have our regular services going. All >> right. You're not going to have a you're not going to run a school there? No school. >> You're not going to have special classes. So that in addition to the prayer, the people praying, you're also going to have classes going on.
>> No classes whatsoever. Only the people are going to get advice and do some kind of session. That's >> Now I really have one more question. This gets to the core of it. You've got a building that according to Mr. history
could fit if you wanted to four up to 450 prayer mats if they were 3x3, >> right? >> Is that realistic that you're going to have that many people? And if not, why do you have a building of this size?
>> So when we prayer, we are not prayer sitting on the chair and praying. we are standing up and going down and and so we need we need a rug >> a prayer rug which is about 3 ft by 4t so that's why we need more space so then
people can have uh relax and enjoy their prayers at the same time >> do people actually like to sit uh kneel right next to each other so you have >> there is a gap so then everyone can be comfortable >> is there any significance to having a building is there any spiritual
significance to have a building of this size as opposed to a smaller area where you can just fit in the number of people that you plan on having. >> Uh we just went through CO and then we were sitting far away was just perfect. So if if this thing happen again ever,
we have plenty of room. So everybody has distance. >> But you understand there are limitations here. And if you Yes. >> But but also limitations on the number of people you just said are likely come to the prayer meetings. And if you want if you're having a special event, you're
going to have to get a permit for that. >> Definitely. Yes. >> And if you do have to get a special event permit, are you willing to pay for offduty police people to uh >> We are familiar with the situation. Yes, we did hire in past and we if we need to be we will definitely do it. Yes,
>> that's all the questions I have. >> Thank you. Anything from the board? >> I understand what your comment I uh what you said about uh the number of worshippers and the uh
size of the of the worship area. But that size also affects parking. So, I'm not sure I'm not sure what to think about that. You're talking about a worship area
that's five four or five times more than the amount of participants that you expect to be there. Isn't that still a little bit of overkill in terms of size? >> Are you directing it to me?
>> Well, I mean, let me let me just answer this. I mean, we all know that the I I spent like five hours reading the resolution of approval for the last um the the the last application, so I'm pretty pretty familiar with it. The this the the change in the building size,
which we'll get into in a moment, is minimal. The change in the prayer area is slightly larger, but in approving the last application, you had a representation through sworn testimony that there's going to be a limit in the
amount of people. If you if you had gone by your your ordinance criteria, you would have had far more people able to use it than um than they said there were. and you by condition um limited the number of
people could use that at a time. This gentleman just testified that basically his congregation is very small. Um even if it grows somewhat, you're still going to be under those limits that he talked about and the testimony you're going to get from from Betsy Dolan is that the
parking is way more than adequate and the traffic can handle way more number of cars than Mr. Razie just testified will will be necessary >> according to his testimony. I agree with you. Yes. About that.
>> The the my my concern is are we able to cut down on the parking? Why? You know, you need you you have to put almost 500 spaces.
>> Yeah. And like I said, you already approved a variance to allow a building of a little bit larger size and slightly smaller prayer area for the same number of parking. We are not increasing that. Um the area the prayering praying area I
think it's we're increasing it by 10% maybe 12%. >> I don't think they were going to build the 500 some of it was going to be banked. No, >> it's going to be 157 spaces. >> Huh? 157 spaces, >> right?
>> That's different than 500. >> No, but that was the same testimony in the last hearings. >> It says, are they going to build 157 spaces or 160? >> They're going to build 127 and bank 30. >> Okay, that's >> it's going to remain the same as it was.
>> Information that needs to be >> brought out. >> That's going to be brought out through um um our engineer. >> Yeah. But let me but let me Mr. Chairman, I think what you're asking is if if they're saying they're going to have 80 people, usually what we hear is
you need uh you know, one parking space for every three people. So if they're going to have, you know, 80 people, so let's round that up to 90, then they need 30 parking spaces. So why are they building 157? I mean, is that essentially what your
question is? Yeah, >> it can't be future expansion. You need to tell the board what you're proposing or or if there is going to be future expansion, the board needs to know and that's what you need to apply for. >> Oh, that is what I'm asking. >> There there is no plan right now for
future expansion. We recognize that if there going to be future expansion, we'll be back to the board. >> Simple as that. >> Any other questions? Yeah, I I I would like just like to continue on what you're saying, you know, and and that's where my doubt sorry that's where my
doubt is too that the size compared to the parking just doesn't make sense to me. Okay. So I have some reservations as far as um that ratio is concerned um
with all concerned aspects and I am familiar with the praying space that is required. There is I I I do sense some gap. I'm just it's more of a comment than a question. So I
kind of uh do want to mention exactly what you're trying to say that if 80 people are coming then this does something is a miss. >> Well here's the problem Mr. Chairman. Um
obviously we're coming here in good faith and Mr. Razi is testifying in good faith as to what he uh his group intends to do. If we came in and kept the area exactly the same and
said exactly the same as the last applicant that we expected to have the same number of people. I think that they said they weren't going to exceed 170 at a time. I think that's what their testimony is. Then we wouldn't even be looking for this variance. Okay. I I and what I'm basically saying it's a rather
subtle maybe even dimminimous variance. We're we're trying to be as honest as we possibly can, telling you what we intend to do so you have a resolution that can be enforced. And I think that's exactly what the applicant said three years ago and
that's what you accepted. And so I mean it's it's a it's a very slight modification. So, I'm not sure why you would have accepted the testimony three or four years ago and you're questioning it now. There's nothing that this that Mr. Razi
has said to indicate that they have anywhere near the number of people even that were testified to by the uh by the religious people four years ago. Well, I can I can think of one thing and we'll see how it develops, but the use in this
facility is not the same as the use in the one that was approved three or four years ago. It wasn't being used five times a day. No, they my recollection was that they used it
primarily on weekends and evening and they had a lot more people than we're proposing in this application. Still religious use. So I don't think you can say it's a different use. >> It's just that the times of day they use it are different. the frequency of these two
>> three times. They ended up using it about five times a month and 75 to 100 people and we're proposing fewer people, >> five times a day. >> Well, I you know, I guess the board's going to have to decide whether you want
us to go back to exactly the same thing. I don't think the board wants to get involved in exactly how a religion practices its religion. I don't think that's what what Mr. Chairman is saying. No, but we have other concerns because of it being five times a day. You're now
uh exiting traffic onto the street during rush hour. >> Sure. And we'll we'll present our our um our professionals on that. >> All right. Any other board questions? >> Mr. Chairman, just to you know, I maybe
to help boil the issues down. Um, and again, so you ran through a bunch of the different conditions. Um, so I'm just going to maybe repeat it a little bit. Um, so condition 28, no renting to
member outside uh to a no renting of the facility to a member or outside parties may occur. So that was the condition of the previous approval and you're proposing to stick with that condition. >> Yes. >> Okay. Uh and what you were saying about the weddings I was a little unclear
because the the language in the existing condition is no conduct of wedding funerals etc may occur period doesn't talk about people within your congregation or outside what was the testimony >> his testimony was I believe you can confirm this >> prayer only the prayer for the wedding
prayers and also the funeral prayers only >> in other words no wedding reception >> no reception no music No food, nothing at all. >> Okay. Uh, and then you said no, no, there not going to be there was there be there shall be no outside speakers or amplified sound. You had said there's
not going to be any music at all on the site, you know, particularly outside. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Um, there shall there there shall be no outside events, festivals with the exception of procession during two high holy days. Again, that was that original
application. What was the testimony again with respect to that? No out. Nothing outside. Not even name profession. >> No, no outside at all. Okay. >> Yep. >> I'm sorry. You were going through it very quickly, so I just want to make sure that we we get it right. Um,
that's all I have. Thank you for this for this witness. Anybody else? All right. Is there anyone in the public who would like to ask the witness questions concerning the testimony? I'm up to the
speaker. >> Yes. Can you hear me? Can you hear me? Okay. >> Um, good evening, Mr. Razi. >> Um, you mentioned the question was about the size of the proposed building and you mentioned something about COVID, but I didn't quite follow
>> well co we has to be distanced six feet from everyone at that time, right? So, our mask did the same thing uh during COVID time. So, we needed we had extra space. So we we were doing fine 6 ft
prayers no problem. So if we have little extra room which is good to have because I just visited Saudi Arabia and I see beautiful mosque over there beautiful mosque. So I wanted to bring the same
kind of pleasure to the community here so they can enjoy that's all. It's nothing like we are giving huge building. is 20,000 and we have limited people living here anyway and we have two other masks presently people are we
have been there for a while but we still have the same numbers you know because throughout the New Jersey is many much more mass so people spread out anyway so we are not going to use 458 number we
will never come close to that number >> and the number You suggested that the maximum number might be around 60. I think that was what was >> you already testified to that >> indicated. But how did you come up with that number?
>> Uh people in the area the families uh collective numbers that's how we come up with and we have other locations and we are generating the same numbers in the other location. >> I see. And over can you say over what
geographic area those 60 would come from? Does that include Ramadan where they would travel further from from further away or is that really the immediate vicinity? >> I object to that. I don't think you see how that has any relevance to the number. >> I'm sorry. I'm excuse me. So I'm I'm
trying to establish where the maximum number of attendees that's projected and is is in the submissions where what's that based on? Because if you're saying really only 20 to 30 congregants are
attending currently, um I'd like to know where the other 40 come from. Is is that a projected increase I in in the number of attendees over time or is that based on the other locations that you have in
Edison and Piscatway? >> I I object again that's about three questions in one. Um I don't know how that can be answered. >> It's a simple question. Where does the number 60 come from?
>> You can answer that. >> 60 is about roughly uh the amount of people are in other locations in Piscatway and Edison and there is not much too much population in Somerset anyway. So our numbers are lower here 60
65 maximum for in today's time. >> Okay. >> Thank you. And do you do you seek to increase your number through proletizing you know the way that some other religions do? What's um you know >> well at the moment this these are the
numbers but as we progress 10 years from today could be different story but we know our limits to stay by you know so we are not exceeding our numbers we are going to be within 458 or much less if we have to we will open another location
somewhere else but we are not going to overload this location in front of all these people I'm sitting here promising Right. Okay. Thank you. That's all I have. >> Anyone else? Go on up to the mic.
>> We need your name and address. >> Sure. >> Hi, my name is Shaak Mamawala. I'm a resident of Franklin Park for the last 20 years. I actually researched a little bit about this organization. Uh their their future plans are a 60,000 square foot Islamic center.
>> Objectives. There's no is going to ask a question. >> Yeah. So, I've just done some research on this particular >> uh center >> and I would like to share that with the community. >> Well, we need a question. >> Yeah. The question is the the funding that you're requesting on the site is
for a gym and a community facility, a 400 parking space, a boarding school for hips and alma programs, a 60,000t Islamic center in this location. This is the plan which they put online for collecting donations. So this is not
going to be a 30 people activity for for not not even more than a week. My my question here is the plan is to create a education institute in this area. The south middle bush road if you speak to
Franklin Park Police is one of the three east west connectivity on >> it's a highly traffic area. If you put a school in the middle of South Middle School question, >> my question is the number of people that you're projecting versus the number of
parking spot don't add up. You have projected 30 people. You have 400 parking spots. Your in your future plan has a gym, a school, and a boarding school for >> those aren't questions, sir. >> You need to ask questions. >> But let let's just state that's just the
fact that's not the proposal before this board. >> Okay? >> Though so and it may help. What you might want to listen to, the engineer is about to come up. >> He's going to go through the site plan. >> Okay. >> Okay. And he's going to describe the building. He's going to describe the parking spots.
>> That stuff that you're talking about that may be on a website somewhere. I'm not disputing that, but that's not the application before this board. >> So, so what I would suggest is per, you know, if there are some >> question just first you want to listen to questions, but I also want to make clear again whatever you saw on that
website is not that application before this board. Got it. Uh the question I have is uh the number of people six times a day versus the number of parking don't add up. And my question is let's let's be clear about this. The South Brunswick mosque has 10,000 people
coming there. The one on Cedar Grove has 1500 people or 2,000 people coming there. So by no means this is going to have 30 people and we are residents. >> But ask him the the question. So my question is tell us what is the real number of people that are going to come there >> if if we get to that point which I
highly doubt you have a chance to make a statement later right now questions what do you want him to tell you >> what I want want him to tell us is is this realistically the number of people
that he thinks will be there in this facility in that case why why does he need 400 parking and all these application for additional space. >> Okay, >> that's my question. >> I think he answered it, but maybe you could give a quick comment.
>> I'm not sitting here lying, making up his stories. What I said was the truth to everybody. What I said was the God honest truth and these are our numbers and if you learned something somewhere else, >> I have no idea. So, I'm just blown away
just like anything else. So, I'm so sorry. Okay. >> I mean, factually, there's >> Any other questions? >> Okay. Thank you. Next. >> Good evening. My name's uh Steve Callahan. I'm in the Franklin Park uh
part of the community. Uh my question is regardless of the numbers that you're that you're talking about 60 75 80 why do we need a 19,300 ft building for 65 to 100 people? >> Do you want to take that?
>> No. No, you can answer. Do you do you want to talk about the the spiritual um uh purpose in having a building that's larger than just being able to fit people in to pray?
That's for you. Uh that is a reasonable size. It was approved few years back and we are just asking the same size. I mean, nothing more to it.
>> Okay. C, >> can I interject, council? Maybe it may be um beneficial to explain to the public what witnesses you're planning to call so that they can structure their questions to the appropriate individual. >> Yeah, you know, I may have made the
assumption that all of you knew when I said the professionals. So, you're you're actually correct. We're going to have uh Mr. Mystery testify who is the architect who explain the architectural features of the building, the design
both outside and inside. We're going to have Mr. Ardman, Mitchell Ardman, testify who's going to number one do all the engineering. He's a professional engineer. He will talk about the engineering aspect and he'll talk about compliance with the conditions since he
was really the one involved in revising the plans to satisfy conditions. We'll have Betsy Dolan, Elizabeth Dolan, testify, who's a traffic expert, who will talk about the adequacy of the parking as well as the safety of traffic
leaving and entering the um the uh driveway at the times when there will be prayer meetings. And we'll finally have Kevin O'Brien who is the planner who will talk about satisfying the negative criteria for the
two I believe parking variances that we need or relief from the conditions relating to the to the uh the parking variances that were previously approved. >> Thank you. So I mean to this gentleman's question, it sounds as if the architect who will provide testimony after the
engineer would probably be better to answer that question for him. >> Yeah. Mr. Anum's purpose of Mr. Anum testifying really was he's involved. How many people are you going to have based upon who you have at the other two sites? And do you understand you have to limit it to the number here? Because if there's 300 people here and somebody
calls the police, you're going to be in violation of the conditions that this board's going to put on the approval. That's what I've been telling Mr. Razzie for you know 6 months and that's what he understands. >> So m Mr. Razie here is really just part of your opening statement brief highle
overview kind of giving the public a heads up of what's going to be coming in the next several hours of the hearings. >> Yeah. And I thought it was important for you to get sworn testimony from a person who's actually a principal of of Tawi that he is saying yes we're going to commit that we're going to accept this
condition. >> Maybe I'm out of place. Could I just ask the board something? Um, I understand, you know, the previous facility that was going to be in its place, why would when the conditions have
changed, um, different religions, different sect, whatever the case might be, why would the board not make them start over again? >> Yes. Well, they they are here to present um
their case. They're they're legally obligated. They're legally required to be here to present this. And whether it's amended or a new application, the the board still has certain powers to approve nori deny the application. So, if they are providing testimony to amend the application, we still have the right
to deny the amendments, but the original applications would still hold true. But the original application, okay, was for a different purpose and the building was going to be that size for whatever reasons it was going to be. Why wouldn't that case be reopened for the the new
proposal? Okay. And the other basically you have to start from scratch. >> Well, it is reopened. Um, but I think it's more of a legal where maybe our target >> it's it's a application to seek relief from the conditions that were already placed by way of the previous approval.
So there's no need to reopen it from scratch. They are seeking relief from certain conditions from that previous approval. >> They actually could come in here and build the original approval. they would actually they wouldn't be here
and I think if along the way >> basically bought the old application >> the approval >> and and are trying that on >> and if >> you're allowed to >> and if it's determined that there is that big of a difference then then I think our legal counsel would would provide the appropriate legal guidance.
>> Got it. But it's really too early to tell for that because everybody that's not here to testify. >> Yes. Exactly. >> Gotcha. Thank you very if I can obviously I agree with what all of you gentlemen all four of you said. Um I I I wanted the public to understand that we
don't just show up to here today with our plans. We have met with the technical review committee. Um I've had countless communications with Mr. Healey regarding this application. Our professionals have talked to the uh to the professionals for the township. uh
this application is the product of a lot of communications and changes in the plans and stuff um in in order to try to satisfy what we think your your township professionals want from us. Um otherwise I agree with everything that you all you gentlemen just said
>> and and I would agree and and I think that's evident by the the documents that are posted on the township's website that anyone in the public can can view um and review prior to the hearings. I'm Rajes Sangri,
Franklin Park residence for last 20 years. Question um you planning to move the two centers you have today which is Edison and South Planefield when you build this are you planning to close
those moving over here or you are adding one two and three those will be still functional >> Edison and Piscarway not in South Planefield. Yes, we are going to continue there. >> Okay. So, traffic will not be coming
from the other counties. There'll be traffic will be local. Yes. Yes. This is especially for Somerset residents. That's where we are at Shampa. >> Shamp
Franklin Park resident for the last 24 years. going to piggyback on his question where he said you know if there are 300 people uh and they call the cops because it's over the limit. My question is how do you set the limit? Is it the 486 people that is allowed in the
building or is it the 60 that he say who's going to come there because that is very crucial to us given you know how the traffic pattern is going to change based on the numbers. So my question, I don't know whether it is to him or to you guys, is how do you hold the mosque
responsible for being accountable to the number that they're saying today, 60, and not have 486 people show up? >> May I address that, Mr. Chairman? >> Yes. >> The answer is the number 60. It's not 400. All right. We submitted something
in writing to the board that we intend to be bound bound by and you're never going to see 400 people at this at at this location. But let's say you saw 150. To me, that's an obvious enforcement
issue because it's a violation. >> Violation. >> My client knows that. It's a violation of the resolution that'll be passed by this board. We know that. My client knows that. The board knows that and it's not one of those hard things to enforce is a quite obvious thing. My
client knows it. I've told him that and he wouldn't s be up here under oath telling you something else knowing that he's going to be shut down immediately if he violates it. >> I guess that's my question. So we normally know if there's a hall or whatever and there's a capacity, right?
100 people, 50 people. This is a capacity of 486. So if it does not exceed that is it still a violation I'll repeat my question or rather I'll reframe it I'll reframe it. So uh every
hall has a capacity you know whatever determined by the fire marshall or you know so let's say the capacity of this uh building is 486 will it be a violation if it exceeds 60
people which he's saying will be you know somehow written into the contract or is it as a violation if it exceeds 486 >> you're talking about two different things. The capacity is a fire code issue,
>> right? So, the building has a certain capacity that's permitted per the fire code. >> Yes. >> What we're talking about is a condition, a potential condition of approval here that would limit the number of people, which is a different issue. >> So,
>> I understand. How is that condition implemented and executed? Well, it's it's part of the board's approval and it's if it's determined that that is not being complied with, it would be a zoning violation and a
violation would be issued relative to a violation of from the from the zoning officer >> and what is the consequence of that? I you know these are questions that we're really getting bogged down in details that we shouldn't be getting
bogged down in right now but the answer is that if there is a condition of approval that they can only have a certain number of people they have to comply with it and there are consequences if they don't the reason I'm asking again I'm saying we need to get down into the weeds before the
construction is done and people can come because that is going to impact our daily lives with people coming there every single day, five times a day. That's why I need my voice to be heard. And I guess there are plenty of people here also who need their voice to be heard. Thank you. >> Any other questions?
>> Yeah. Well, let me just piggyback piggyback on that a little bit, which is it's my understanding that the 458 number is also a condition of the approval of their septic system. So, which would be an approval of the uh of the county health department. So, they would also have jurisdiction over the
number of people that are on that site throughout a day. No other questions. We'll close of the public. All right. One more. >> My name is Mega Sangi and I'm also a resident of uh Franklin Park. So you
said there's five times daily prayers, right? So whether it's 25 people, 60 people, 100 people, what whatever you have, that's that many cars five times a day on the main artery. >> Time for a question, not a speech.
>> I'm sorry. Just let me just speak for two minutes. I'm a resident. I hate actress. Let me speak for two minutes, sir. Please. >> You get a chance to speak later. Right now, it's question. >> My question is to you. to you. How is
traffic going to be dealt with? It is already every day all of us go to work. We sit in traffic to drop our children to go to work. We are going to add to it without explaining. >> Okay. We're all interested in the traffic. I'm sorry to interrupt you.
>> Question is >> he's not the traffic person. >> Okay. Then I will ask you all. >> No, you'll wait to hear the traffic people and then you can ask them all you want. So, so there it's not a traffic night. >> I understand it's not a traffic night.
That's why I came here, left my children at home, and I came here for my voice to be >> Find a question that deals with his testimony. >> You already >> I asked the question, but you're not even letting me >> find me. >> All right. So, at some later on time,
not today, there will be a traffic consultant who will come and testify. The question that you are asking is more relevant to that person whoever is going to come and testify. Right? So it's not about
traffic or getting here or not. What he means by traffic is there is a traffic consultant or whoever is going to be their witness is going to come forward and talk about all traffic related issues, their studies and at that time you can ask as many detailed questions
as you want. >> But it's not going to be tonight. Correct. It is not tonight and that is why um Rich had mentioned asked them to provide a list of people who are going to come. >> I assume they were all coming tonight. >> No correct but we we have a time limit
to so that's why I just so like like the gentleman who's one of the principles of this proposed place uh came and is testifying somebody else will come and testify and so on and so forth. So whoever comes and testifies
and I think it goes for everybody your questions have to be relevant just to that testimony. >> And at the very end when everyone's been done there will be time to make comments
ask more questions before we conclude and make a decision. >> Thank you. >> Fair enough. >> Fair enough. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> And Mr. Thomas, all I that's all I wanted to hear. You could have said that to me respectfully. Just for the record,
>> I think too much. >> We're closed to the public now and don't even get comfortable >> because it's already after 10. We need to set another date. I would think we're pretty much finished with this witness
>> and we can start fresh with him. I >> we're >> Yeah. I I have a a question I guess for uh our attorney. Um I have just looked
at the at the Tawed Dawa uh center and I find the information on there to be incredibly different than what is being proposed here at this meeting. And and
my question is, is the information on that website relevant to our analysis and an understanding of what they're offering
here? It would seem from a credibility standpoint that it is. And if it is, I think that the witness tonight, he says he's never seen this before. He should go home and read it and be available for the next time that we appear here.
>> I think I think that's a fair. >> Yeah, >> I think that's a fair request. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Because I don't know why their website says that. >> Right. >> So, so then I have a question. Is that website yours?
>> Which one you looking at? >> Yes. There you go. Then I think that answers the question. >> Okay. Be happy to address that next time. >> We need to set a another date.
>> Okay. Uh Mr. Schwarz, we we spoke on the phone and you were going to check with your um professionals as to whether they could be available February 5th or 19th. Do you have that answer for me today? >> Uh yes, we do. I believe we're all good for the 19th.
>> The 19th. >> Do we need a deadline extension? >> Yeah, I'll say all that in a moment. So, um, for the record and on the record, uh, Toheed Dawa Center docket number ZBA240017 uh, will be carried to February 19th,
2026 at 7:30 p.m. here at 475 Deont Lane. And Mr. Schwarz um will be required to provide me a deadline date because his extension his expiration for that would be December 31st, 2025. So you're
welcome to give me a February 28th deadline date or if you think it may go further, you're welcome to push it out as long as you want so I don't have to keep asking. You could say December 2020 20 uh December 31st, 2026. It doesn't matter. Just so you know. >> May I ask a question? Will we be uh the
first on the agenda that night? um as you're saying >> as you and I as you and I spoke um the agenda I didn't even have anything for that. So, yes, you would be the first uh people on there that evening. And if it's going to
be um something what's going on now where we have a lot of public that needs to get up and talk, then I will not schedule anybody else for that evening unless, and I do say unless there is a resident that has a small matter like wanting to put on a deck or something,
I'm not going to have them wait until this is done and keep carrying. If there's a small matter that can be heard in a matter of 20 minutes, they will go before you. >> I've got it. Um, Mr. Chairman, I I would um I'll consent to an extension through
the meeting of February 19th with the understanding that we will liberally grant further extensions if necessary. Um, however, I do I just want to confirm something with Mr. Hack. Um last January I was in getting extension of the site plan approval and that extends through
January 22nd 2026. My understanding of the case law is so long as our application is pending that extension continues so that we don't have a cut off. Um I actually have some case law if I if I had to give it but I'm sure Mr. Hack is aware of >> that's consistent with my understanding
with the of case laws. >> That's fine. And and so we'll give the extension through February 19th and I'll confirm that in writing tomorrow. uh a couple board members and uh it's come up in in the some of the reading of the material
and in order to make this go a little more efficiently when we get to traffic. It might be helpful if you can if you have a statement from the county as to what approvements they might require
should you get an approval. with the intersection that will be uh established there. Uh there is more traffic in general. Uh the county is going to step in at some point
anyway. If you can get a head start on what they may or may not want, it's it's actually a benefit. It could be a benefit to you. And it also is another important piece of information that we
have and can't be criticized for not having >> that. That's fine. I mean, Miss Dolan will testify about that anyhow, but I'll direct her to touch base again with the county. Um, you may or may not know that she Yes, of course you know that she's involved with the Indian application.
Um, and so even though the county as of today has not taken an official stance on our property, they have talked about the two in concert with each other. So, >> well, sometimes they have a way of coming in with some tough requirements at the end in the
11th hour. Might as well know about how they feel about it. >> Well, it's one thing to say we know they we'll find out what they feel about. It's another thing to say whether we agree with them or not. So, >> and that and that I don't think we can resolve between now and February 19th
with with due respect. But I I'm hearing you. I'm sure Miss Dolan is hearing you and we'll have that information to extent that it's available. >> Okay. Thank you. Is there a motion to adjourn? >> I move that we adjourn. All in
>> favor? I opposed. Meeting adjourn.