okay uh Richard Proanic oh no i'm sorry alan Rich yes gary Rosenthal yes robert Shepard yes canala yes okay minutes february 20th 2025
uh just uh everybody here can vote i'll move a second richard Proanic yes basim Verdas yes alan Rich yes gary Rosenthal yes robert Shepard yes kunal Lakia yes
robert Thomas yes manu Vidu Goyel under the resolution section ZBA 25002 uh just Kunal cannot vote on that okay I'll move second
Richard Proanic yes basin Verdas yes alan Rich yes gary Rosenthal yes robert Shepard yes and Chairman Thomas yes fleet Franklin incorporated zba 240022 um Richard Proanic Basim Verdas Kunal
Lakia and yourself cannot vote i'll move second alan Rich yes gary Rosenthal yes robert Shepard yes okay side data mandere CBA
190037 extension of time allan Rich Shepard cannot vote i'll move that was you sorry I didn't hear you richard Proanic yes vasimin Verdas yes
gary Rosenthal yes kunal Lakia yes chairman Thomas yes muslim Foundation Incorporated ZBA25001 and just Kunal cannot vote on that one either need a motion i'll move
gary you second richard Proanic yes justine Verdas yes alan Rich yes gary Rosenthal yes robert Shepard yes robert Thomas yes all right as usual there's no discussion and it
looks as though all the hearings that are on the agenda are good to go nothing's being carried or cancelled so first up is Michelle and Ian Fernandez zba 2423
the C variance which the applicant had a pool with a paver patio installed resulting in an impervious coverage variance at 32 Annapolis Street block 101 lot 74.01 in the R10 zone uh you're
going to represent yourself right turn the mic both you both going to speak or just one of you yes we're gonna I'm sorry yes so I'm we're going to represent and
you're both going to speak or just one of you um is it okay for both of us sure i I just need to swear you're both in then yes okay both of us you know how to turn yeah both of you yes if you can both raise your right hand please do you swear or affirm that the testimony
you're about to give before this board is the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth and just one at a time if you can each state your name and spell your last names for the record michelle Fernandez f E R N A N D E Z can
you just use one mic please um my name's Ian Fernandez i A N F E R N D thank you okay do we need a summary from you Mark on this or um I mean I think it's Uh the description basically
describes it um the applicant had a pool installed um the impervious coverage limit of the zone is 30% um I'm sorry the the um the properties in the R10 zone uh they had a pool installed um
when they put the pool in they uh put in a a larger um patio than was on the plan when they submitted for the um submitted their asbuilt they just we discovered on the asbuilt that the impervious coverage was
35% where 30 is the maximum permitted so they're here before the board to uh request a variance but but then isn't there also um additional um patio that was added to bring the total impervious
coverage up to something around 45% so that's a good qu yeah I didn't realize the board received the first review so what happened was the the applicant actually had installed an even bigger patio um they subsequently removed it
staff went out twice to confirm the removal of the additional patio and we confirmed literally with a shovel to make sure that the patio was gone so what you see on that um what on that as built is what they are requesting relief
for which is the 35% um they had installed again a little bit to the uh I'm assuming north is up little bit more patio to the north but again they've subsequently removed it anything you want to add to the
discussion um this is crazy let me see if I can get one sorry about that no worries um or maybe it's me maybe it's the computer
that the child has [Music] it's a B can't take it away i told him the last time I saying they fixed it maybe we should swear a show
sorry no worries totally fine you know can't leave him home she's not coming but she's picking up her that's what she says
um what I what I will add is that um the the patio put your face closer closer to the mic i'm getting like a good lesson in this that's good good um I would like to add that um when we did add the patio it was not in any way um meant to go
intentionally above our imperous coverage honestly we did it um by accident when we got the asbuilt survey completed and we discovered that it was over um what the allowed impervious coverage was um we did remove a significant well we removed a walkway
the patio that was referred to that was removed was actually a gravel patio we had that removed and replaced with mulch and we also installed um a dozen shrubs um along the side of it too so I mean honestly it was it was a mistake we we
installed the patio at cost we removed a portion of it at cost and so we're hoping that we can retain what we are able to um through through this discussion um and yeah that's I think that's the only
thing I can add pretty much any any board questions there's no drainage issues or anything anywhere in the property i don't think Yeah I don't think so we've had uh
we've had like several um heavy donors the last Yeah and there were no issues at all like um and then as I can see I we sent letters to our neighbors regarding the issue that we're having uh or the hearing and then um nobody even
seemed to care that that we have we're having a hearing tonight so I guess even our neighbors don't even notice any issues with with the water and on all that well let's handle that this way real quick is there any if we open to
the public is there anyone here who has a question or a comment about the uh this application i'm going to take that to mean that none of your neighbors are here so we'll close to the public anyone else have other issues or anyone want to
offer a motion yeah I can do it just a second here motion suggestion i move that we grant Michelle and Ann Fernandez um the necessary variance to allow them to retain uh their current PA patio uh
at uh a 35% imperous coverage i'll second Richard Proanic yes the same Verdas yes alan Rich yes gary Rosenthal yes robert Shepard yes kunal Lakia yes and Robert
Thomas yes okay good luck with it thank you so thank you so much okay eh Somerset ZVA25005 C variance application in which the applicant is seeking to place signs at the hotel at 1860 Eastn Avenue
Somerset block 468.10 lot 26.04 4 in the B zone thanks well we un we we think that we have at least one uh microphone that works so we can share shuffle that around a little not a problem just please bear with me
for a moment while we get settled i lost my finger there we go okay uh good evening uh chairman board members council uh my name is John Duca i'm with the law firm Savo Shock and I'm here tonight on behalf of EH
Somerset LLC uh this is docked under application number ZBA 25005 this is a sign variance application for the property located at 1860 Eastn Avenue and that's also designated as block
468.10 lot 26.04 this property is situated in the BI zone uh right now at the at the property there is a hotel that's currently under destructions there will be an Ever Home Suites hotel it's scheduled to open uh somewhere around
August we're hoping to hit that target um the proposal that we're here for tonight and the relief we're seeking uh we're seeking to install two uh wall-mounted signs at various entrances on the hotel to do that we require C2
variances the reason we require those variances is these signs that we're proposing are larger than your ordinance permits uh and although your ordinance does permit there to be two signs um for for hotels one at one entrance and one at another uh the ordinance does state
that to get those two signs they need to be of a of a certain size we go over that size so we're seeking the variance for the size of the signs and for the number of the signs um for my witnesses tonight you see two gentlemen sitting at either either side of me i have uh
Lynford Burkeholder he's the project manager at the site uh while it's under construction and then I also have Timothy O'Donnell who's a representative of eh Somerset LLC so uh Mr burke Holder will talk about the technical aspects of the signs and then Mr o'donnell will
describe the business needs uh for the sign so uh just for the sake of the record I will state that uh notice of this meeting has been uh has been published and notice has been served on all property owners within 200 f feet and uh this board just does have uh
authority and jurisdiction to hear this matter for C2 variants okay before you give start with a witness you said something that I I didn't understand i I you said you're you're here for uh two
to get a variance for two signs and for signs that are that are oversized and I thought you told me that you're allowed to have two signs sure um so I can clarify exactly what I mean by that so
uh in your little it's a little convoluted of a way to explain it but the relief we're seeking there are two pieces of the relief this the size of the signs right and then the number of the signs so if you look at your ordinance which I am displaying on on
the screen this is uh section uh 112 attachment five so the high the first highlighted bar shows the standards for hotels one sign is allowed and a maximum vertical height of three feet now if you
look at footnote four which is signaled here at the end of that final column it does allow one additional sign uh at rear and side entrances but after the comma you'll see provided that each is equal to or less than the maximum permitted size of the front sign so that
so we're seeking while while the ordinance provides that you can have another one we exceed that size so we would need a variance from that standard as well thank you thanks my pleasure um so if uh there's no other housekeeping items or questions at this time I would
request that uh Mr lynford Burkeholder be sworn in to testify mr burke Holder if you can just raise your right hand please do you swear or affirm the testimony you're about to give before this board is the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth yes if you can
just repeat your name and spell your last name for the record please uh Lynford Burkeolder my last name is B U R K H O L D E R you're going to need to speak a little louder no okay
or the recording secretary will be after so so Mr burkeolder we're going to get a little bit close and get to know each other better here um as we share a microphone but can you uh describe the the dimensions of the signs and uh some of the technical aspects of the signs
yes it's the the first sign hold the mic up the first sign is might not be on oh it is you can see on the on the side of the building is the first the first sign it's 150 square feet um is a backlit
sign um is that sign number one or number two uh this is number one number one um and that sign has like has 300 or 3,152 lumens and it is a it's on day and night
um the the next sign is on the end of the building sign number two let me go to um that sign is uh you can see up there it says 115.77 square ft uh again that one is a
lighted day and night and that lumens is 3,783 lumens uh they project from the building approximately about 5 in um yeah I don't know if you guys have any questions but that's basically the specs on how big of a sign I'm sorry how
big of a sign are you allowed to have so the the standard that we're seeking to deviate from is the vertical uh height of the sign and the the standard is 3 feet and how big is the sign are you looking for is it 10 no no it's four
this one is 4T 11 is the height and the other one is 6 foot that's hard for me to read let me pull it up 6'8 okay why do you need a bigger sign uh I I think that uh Mr o'donnell might be able to speak to that a little bit
better all right you're off the hook on that one just a couple quick questions this view is the one facing Eastern Avenue yes and then the one before that is Davidson of Worlds Fair Drive world so both lighted portions are opposite
with the the nursing home with the building in between there's no there's no glare from any and I'm assuming you don't feel you need a sign projecting on the other side for people coming off 287
they wouldn't be able to see it anyway right correct so it's just these okay i I have I have no further questions uh for Mr burke Holder so I'll ask that Mr o'donnell be sworn in to testify mr donald raise your right hand uh do you
swear or affirm that testimony you're about to give before this board is the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth yes you can just repeat your name and spell your last name for the record please uh Timothy O'Donnell O apostrophe D O N E L L thank you so Mr
o'donnell um as you get into your testimony and describe the business needs for this sign I'm going to ask you to focus on uh two specific aspects a why do they need to be the size that they are and why are they located where they are yeah and I'll start um actually with kind of the location so this uh
Ever Home Suites Hotel um normally as we've built several others um throughout the country they normally have four uh signs on all four sides of the building um obviously with where that Bristol assisted living uh facility is located as well as that warehouse to the um west
we felt that only these two locations are pertinent um uh for this area um regarding uh number one um in order to see this from World's Fair Drive obviously we have that um large piece of land right in front um the size of the sign that we have really we think will
illuminate and attract uh the people to the hotel and especially for sign number two uh along that Easton Avenue and along 287 as you guys all know that's where a lot of it's a heavy traffic and populated area um and we really do feel that the need for the that size of the
sign in order to meet our our prototype requirements as well as uh be seen from the road is very important to have it be that size so just to to paraphrase and you can you can correct me if I'm uh misinterpreting what you're saying but in order for um
hotel guests to be able to easily locate exactly where they're looking to go that's why the signs need to be as big as they are proposed correct okay and you also mentioned that this is a heavily traffked area um so rather than have people circle around this area and perhaps get lost to make some
unnecessary turns congesting the area you want them to find it right away correct all right thank you you are familiar with the orthopedic building that's there the fourstory medical building
which has the sign on i was just going to ask how the size of the your sign compares with that because it would appear that that's an oversized sign also and I'll I'll defer to fair on that one regarding that medical sign do you
know the size of one by chance they they received the variance for their so it's a it's it's probably a similar size sign i I can't tell you what the size is but I I do remember them coming to the ZBA before
they put that sign up okay i'm just uh sort of making the point that it isn't necessarily out of character for those for that group of buildings that are there uh any other questions i I have a question um why are you in
front of the zoning board tonight and not in front of the planning board for an amended site plan sure so um this is actually we're only seeking the uh variances i don't know if this actually does constitute an amended um amended site plan relief um so because we're
only seeking the variances uh that's why we're before the zoning board is there anything in that resolution from the planning board that would have to do with signs uh actually no those signs were not part of that that application
so um with those two signs the the one facing World's Fair there's the the detention basin or infiltration basin whatever they call it um so there's not going to be anything that would physically obstruct your visibility from World's Fair to the the new hotel so why
why the need for a larger sign and then subsequently on Eastn Avenue I don't think you can see the building from Eastn Avenue so why that sign well I I actually driving here did drive past it on East Avenue you could see the building um and so I I you can't see the
you know um ground to to roof elevation of the building but you can see the top of the building from Eastern Avenue um and the the reason for the size is so that you can read it from a distance but based on what calculation based on what typically we would have a planner or
someone to provide expert testimony and it seems like you're here because I want it no uh we I I would defer back to um Mr mr o'donnell's testimony about the the business need of signaling to patrons
who are in the area and I would also echo uh what Mr healey and Mr thomas pointed out that it is within the character of this particular area and location there are developments typically testimony a planner would provide not an attorney so for for this
type of hotel is this more of a destination or is it the bulk of your business from from pass uh could you speak to that Mr donn yeah sure so um this hotel really kind of have a mix of guests there in between
pass by and local and um just kind of speaking to it as well this is our um prototypical hotel so we do have these size um signs throughout all of our um different hotels i'd have to um in terms of kind of the
um or origination of the size of the sign um I'm sure that on the back end with our uh design teams there were some calculations provided obviously to say hey we needed to be this size this light in order to see it from a distance i don't have any calculations kind of
handy but I there was there was stuff done in order to prove that that size sign is required yep thank you do you think uh if if you think so you may as well uh address it tonight but are you going to
need a another sign directional sign on World's Fair Drive at the driveway there alerting people to where an entrance would be from World's Fair Drive back to that hotel
so uh um Mr burke Holder why don't you why don't you speak to that yeah if we if you see the microphone sorry that's right thank you thank you Mr sheepard yes if you see the the number three that's a monument sign
on the the entrance off of Worldsville Drive so that when they get to that entrance they will know that that's an entrance to get to the hotel but then if you continue on and there is no sign on the side of that building one could make a case that they would go on and get
confused with the Bristol retirement community because there's big buildings there as well because so that's why that sign is critical to be on the side of the building as well on that side and by monument sign you mean there's an existing monument sign and you're going
to be one of the in a way on the tenant space or whatever okay on the existing right below the Bristol assisted living where there's a spot that we're going to put the Ever Home Suite sign okay right above the quick check there's a a spot there for that
any other questions no any more testimony i have no further questions we'll open to the public is there anyone who'd like to make a comment or ask a question about this application
okay we'll close anything from the board question comment resolution uh motion for resolution i'll make a motion if there are no questions from anyone um I move
that we grant eh Somerset LLC ZBA2500 05 uh C variance that will allow them to erect uh two signs uh both in of a size
uh described in their application and uh also um uh well described in their application both in terms of uh their location and uh their size i'll second
Richard Panic no vim uh does Brian does he have to give a reason why he's saying reason oh okay i was not and he does not oh okay never mind if he wants to he wants to i mean I I will just because it's the last time
that appealed um no um no proofs were given we we did not talk about how the the positives would outweigh the negatives uh no burden of proof has been provided as to why this variance is needed um so my vote is no okay vasim
Verdas yes alan Rich yes gary Rosenthal yes robert Sheepard yes kun Kunal Laku yes and chair Robert Thomas yes good luck with it that's been an empty hole there for a long time so
it's nice to see something going there thank you very much thank you 13 essex East Orange LLC ZBA 248 pre-existing non-conforming use in
which the applicants requesting approval for a three family house at 264 Jaward Avenue Somerset block 300 lot 6263 on an R15 zone let me get my microphone so I don't get yelled at all right good evening
everyone uh Jim Stall we're doing the continuation as you may recall of the 13 uh of the 264 Gerard Avenue application which is uh titled uh 12 Essex Each
Orange LLC the matter was pardon me carried without notice further notice until today i will remind the board and if I misspeak I'm sure that I'll be corrected but I don't intend to as you may recall at the last meeting there was
a question as to the quality of the proofs that we were able to present to the board the background information written was difficult to obtain we had an expert Mr beckis a uh u a contractor
who does some specialization in uh aging if you will or determining the age of of buildings uh he did indicate there's a report in the file he indicated that there were three electrical meters three gas meters and that there were other
indicia of a three family use the one of the big questions was that some of the uh locations or residences did not have a full kitchen meaning the appliances were missing well we're going to answer that question uh tonight i have with
Miss M Miss Baker uh whose parents owned the house and who I have to be careful with with dates because you know we can't age young ladies uh so uh uh she lived in the house for 30 years and uh of course I believe she's a very
credible witness i have not coached her i'm not I'm going to have her sworn in by counsel and then she's going to tell you the story and I might ask a couple of uh supplemental questions uh there was one issue that I will indicate to you now because you know I'm always uh
transparent well we thought we provided certain documentation with respect to uh some cards property cards and other indications that it they said three family the one item that uh uh Mr bernstein did present on behalf of the
board which was in the file was an application for a certificate of smoke alarm which was obtained in 2023 when Miss Baker was uh listing the house uh to sell it and she will explain to you why that application which was signed by
her uh indicated uh two units as opposed to three and you'll have to uh analyze her credibility as to why it did i'm not I'm not going to present it now i'm going to let her tell you why because that's the way it's supposed to be mr uh
my client is here as well Mr sutton uh I provided uh the board secretary with some photographs indicating what it looked like in 2023 before Ms baker uh emptied the
house emptied it of certain of many appliances to make it easier to list and sell if I may proceed with Miss Baker Mr chairman certainly i want you stand up please sure might if you can raise your right hand please
even here do you swear or affirm that the testimony you're about to give before this board is the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth i absolutely do if you can just repeat your name and spell your last name for the record please my name is Belinda Baker my last name is spelled B A K E R
thank you Christine the microphone this microphone's working okay you can use the one that you have and she has fine you're good you're good thanks man all right have a seat no that No you hold that because you'll get yelled at by
that young lady over there or I will all right Belinda if I may and and I'm just going to ask you to tell the story i'm not going to go uh piece by piece uh going back to um when you were a very young child um did you begin to live at
264 Garrett Gerard Avenue uh in Somerset okay so I moved into Gerard Avenue when my parents bought the home i moved in when I was 5 years old i'm currently I don't have a problem with my age i'm 69
years old go ahead and just tell it i'd like you to tell the story so I moved in um 1960 i was five years old at the time that I moved in the house was a three
family house we um we had an upstairs the middle apartment is where I grew up in and then there was a downstairs apartment so I don't remember all the names of the people that lived there but downstairs in the When I was
like 14 or 15 we had a Karen Jackson and she was a German lady very close friend of mine that currently lives in Highland Park she's 85 she lived there for over 40 years um and then um that was the last
person well she lived there 40 years um I lived on the second floor i was an only child so my mom and dad and then we had a mistake he's can't hear you in the back oh okay there you go all right so there
you go as I said we had a a woman that lived downstairs on the on the on the downstairs floor she lived there for 40 probably 40 or 30 years name was Karen Jackson then on the second floor I was an only child so I lived in that second
floor apartment with my parents we had second a third floor where uh when I was a child a Mr and Mrs bird lived there then we also had a Mrs maggie Johnson that lived there for I don't know how
many years um my mother had a stroke in 2009 so I rented it out to a young couple uh prior to her having the stroke there was a Mariel Muriel fair and her brother lived there for I don't know how
many years um I do remember when I was younger that an inspector would come to the house yearly and so one of the things that he requested that my mom do is put numbers on the houses like one two and three um I just remember it
always being a three family house it was never not a three family house let me ask you a question from the time that you recall uh it being a three family at your age of five until sometime uh in
2020s was it always a three family home it was always a three family home my mom had a stroke in 2009 so then that's when I came back to care for her and then uh so I lived and I I init at one point I
lived on the third floor then when I came back to care for her I lived on the second floor because she needed 24-hour care so I rented it out to a young couple during that time i think that was I don't even remember the
years because I don't have the I don't have the documents in front of me but I did rent it out to someone while I was caring for my mother um now at some point in time you decided to sell the house is that correct well
what happened is my mother my mother passed away and I really couldn't handle because there was a lot to do there was a lot of work on the house and I couldn't handle it at the time so I really had to sell it and so um it wasn't really in a good condition to
rent it out to other people at that time cuz something had happened with the sewer but the young couple that I had there something had happened with the sewer so it it was just so much work that had to be done to the house so either I was going to actually lose the
house or sell it i'm a realtor so I decided to sell it and you did enter into an agreement uh with Jared Sutton to sell the house is that correct absolutely and and before you sold it strike that during those
years that it was a three family was there a kitchen bathroom uh in each of the three units absolutely there was three kitchens three bathrooms um two entrance for the first floor and the
second floor and another entrance and you how did you get to the third floor um you would have to walk up the stairs entrance there too i understand that's where I live and prior to to listing it for sale you say you are a licensed real estate
salesperson correct i am and did you do any did you remove any of the appliances or other in uh fixtures in the house prior to that well I started moving some things because I knew that I had to you
know u Oh yes i I started moving some things because I you know I knew I was going to sell them so and so that when Mr sutton uh acquired the house to the best of your recollection uh all of the
appliances in the kitchen areas did not was were not fixed up to be a kitchen at that time am I correct well all of the appliances on the bottom floor and the second floor upstairs where I was living because I was going to renovate it to
put new appliances in there so I had taken them out upstairs but the the second and the bottom floor all the appliances were there okay now I'm going to show you um Brian I don't have the number it was an
exhibit that we entered it was application for certificate of smoke alarm carbon monoxide alarm it is dated September the 25th 2023 and Eric had presented on behalf of the board and I knew about it and it
indicates I'll indicate for the board because we all know about it it indicates number uh the number two is circled where it says family and below that it says number of kitchens now Belinda do you recall signing that
document take your time where's my signature where's my signature see the yours are I think it's cuz you're you're the owner are you not your list is the owner yeah I I because I I was I transferred the house over into my name okay yes so do you have a
recollection as to why you would have circled or or Jared circled the number two where it says family dwelling no I Well you and I had and I'm going to I'm not sure so tell me what you're asking well you indicated to me that you
had some conversations and you were concerned that it was a uh a nonconforming dwelling well because when I came to the city they had said I had to list it that way that's what they said that I needed to do list it as a
non-conforming but I had I had also went to the zoning department to tell them that I knew that it was a three family house so that was an issue for me but that's what they said they had it listed as a non-conforming all right but you had no did you I want
to make sure I'm not uh leading too far Brian the um did you intend to abandon a three family use when you No absolutely if I had kept the place I was you know I they had said that I needed to provide some type of
proof to show that it was a three family so if I were going to keep it I would have absolutely kept it as a three family house okay and as far as you know Mr sutton in fact you've seen photographs and Mr sutton subject to it
being used as a two or three he's already done significant work uh in the uh the house and the floors etc am I correct yes he did show me pictures all right and again just so that we all understand your mother or your mother
posted numbers as requested by the township on each of the residential units indicating a one two and a three is that correct uh yes to my dad dying yes I remember her having to do that and I showed you some pictures and you do
recall that there were two separate three that there were three separate electric meters is that correct absolutely all right that's all I have uh Mr chairman okay any board questions i don't really have a a question but I I
guess we could talk about this a little bit at this point the um Franklin Township zoning uh rules when did we have those was it 1958 that those were initially
established yeah I believe it was 1958 so if she's only testifying as to what existed in 1960 what does that do for us well if I may Mr
shepard as Mr beckis who testified and there were some records including the the meters and Beckis did testify at the last meeting that these particular electric meters and these particular gas
meters that were in his report and had certain model and serial numbers were manufactured in the 50s and even if it were 60 we're getting close to 68 and I thought did you move in in the were you a young child in the 50s or the 60s when
you were in the house she testified 1960 she moved in okay thank you no I was five years old yeah all right um but that that's my recollection of the prior testimony and the question the board had was
uh we need a little bit more or we need a lot more but that's why Miss Baker's here but I don't think there's any doubt looking at Beckas's uh report that is in the file uh and he did testify that uh uh these were in this year let me see
if I Brian you should have it in the file it's a report by Beckus dated February the 28th 2024 uh wherein he shows a uh uh discusses in in rather detail with
regard to the uh oh the interior has a mix of construction that indicates techniques from the 50s through 2000s he talks about the electric meters he talked about uh in his live testimony as to what was there i'm just looking for
the meters uh oh here it is was originally built he says as a three family occupancy in or about 1953 uh and I think that you tested him or the board tested him oh it shows a
disconnect box for the service panel and in the early 1950s I'm really answering your question Mr shepard in the early 1950s a 30 amp service was standard and that was a 30 amp uh picture on page 11
of 12 of the Beckas report and then of course uh he shows the electric panel the building has three separate services with equipment that can be dated to the early 1950s uh he really weighed heavily on the
electric panel and the three units and the what he thought and considered was the model numbers which would have shown the 50s now I I'm being honest with you i mean I can't I uh I can't go any
further back than say the 60s and this report uh because the um township is not at fault but you know there's records for so long and uh that's all I can do okay yeah i'm just I want to respond
appreciate your your your your providing that that explanation your your your analysis of what the situation is yeah and it wasn't it was directly from the what you're doing is difficult thank you
any other questions and the request Mr chairman I know that Mr rosenthal I didn't mean to interrupt you when you hadn't said anything yet uh the request ears for uh approval as a uh continuing non-conforming use as a three family the report the staff report
indicates it still needs inspections by uh uh the code to make sure that all u electrical and the sub codes are all compliant with current uh ordinances and statutes uh I think that was in either
Mark's report or it was a staff report am I correct Mark on that yes that's an TRC report thank you anything else it's not a typical application this uh
does get open to the public yeah it's you should open it okay we'll open to the public and see if there's anyone who has any information to offer or questions to ask uh or comments seeing none we'll
close uh you want to say anything else no um you know I I don't like to have waste my waste your time me making closings i mean we know what the you know what the application is okay board
comments questions or motion and just allow me to just frame and I wasn't at the first meeting so I perhaps the the board's discussion was framed already but um so this is for a certificate of continued I'm sorry this
is for um certificate of pre-existing non-conforming use so it's not necessarily a matter of whether you it is a single family zone so this is not a use variance you're not making a decision whether this is particularly suited to be a three family or not this is more of
Um you know have they presented a sufficient evidence based on the testimony at the last hearing Mr beas' report and a testimony today do you have you been presented sufficient testimony and proof that the three family existed
prior to 1958 and has continued in that way until today so it's really more of just kind of a fact-based analysis of did they do it or not okay thank you anything again from the board
no I think I'll make a motion we can discuss that after we go ahead um I move that we uh uh determine uh that based upon the proofs presented
uh the property located at what is it 260 something 264 Mr shepard 264 Gerard Avenue uh was uh a three family house prior to
1958 and uh was continued to um be used as a three family house uh through uh at least uh 2009 and the right to have a two family house was uh never
abandoned um that's that's the motion a second um discussion i looked at this and I I felt pretty good about the um the information in the um report that
was done uh by um uh Beckas Beckus it's funny with the computer you have certain things available to you right in front of your face but then you can't shuffle papers
and find other facts and it it I they're pluses and minus to the computers there is aren't there yeah so so I I looked at the information that Bakus gave last time and and I thought he did a good job of identifying things that would have
been in use uh prior to 1958 but I I was um very um concerned that uh the right to use it as a three- family house had been abandoned um because there was we couldn't get any
traction on what happened between the the uh the time the house was uh built and um and the time uh up to the the current
time um I think that the the witness tonight while she was not able to talk about um what happened uh prior to um 19 1958
her testimony starts in 1960 so she can't really pin the um the use of the House uh prior to 1960 but in in my opinion between her testimony and the
report offered by uh Bakis um I think uh that uh that they've provided enough information i'm not particularly thrilled about the idea of a three family house being in a one family zone
uh but uh as uh Mr healey uh has said uh that's not our job tonight our job tonight is to figure out what was going on prior to the um uh prior to the um uh the creation
and passage of the zoning laws here in Franklin okay anyone else i guess then we can vote richard Proanic yes cassim Berdas yes alan Rich yes gary
Rosenthal knowing Mr stall for a long time and Mr beus the same period of time i'm not really totally convinced as Mr shephard uh have
indicated but I'm going to vote yes robert Shepard yes kalier yes um Robert Thomas i think over the time
involved it's it's difficult to do any more than you have and I'm I'm satisfied with the testimony tonight and and the reports from last year that there's a more than reasonable chance it was here before 1958 so
yes that's I was that's everybody mr stall I was waiting in l in l of my closing i just want to tell the board I I think you made a good decision because I know Mr uh Sutton and he's going to do a let me tell you he's going to do a beautiful job uh unfortunately M Miss
Baker lost you know her mom and and didn't have the time to to develop the house that's not her business but Jared is I've I looked at the pictures he's already The inside is going to be immaculate the outside will be fine it'll be a credit it's going to be nice
housing for three families so I think all that together I think you know I give you an amendment and I thank you as I always do whether I win lose or draw i don't know if I can draw or not but uh thank you again and all of you be healthy and drive carefully we'll do our best okay we'll do your
best just do it vanjet Singh and Rainda Kierba 24001 site plan with used variance in Z varants in which the applicant's proposing to convert the existing repair
garage into a convenience store 339 Elizabeth Avenue Somerset block 493.01 lot one in the R10 zone good evening Mr chairman um Michael
Svaji use the mic use the mic i'll sit down good evening Mr chairman and you have to put your mouth up close to the microphone or the recording secretary will come visit at your house all right
all right so I I will try no no you must um so good evening michael Svagi from Levery Svagei and Cohen on behalf of the applicants uh the chair uh properly identified the property uh and the address uh many of you may be familiar
with this piece of property it's a triangular shaped piece um and it is in the R10 zone which does not allow uh the current use however the current use is grandfathered in um the applicant is
looking to freshen the property up by eliminating the repair shop maintaining the the gasoline service but taking the repair shop space and converting it into a small convenience store again the
building itself is not particularly large it's a little over 2,000 square ft so this is not a Waw Wa or or a quick check by any means um however the conversion of that interior space uh does require a D1
variance because that use is not permitted uh it also uh the application will also entail uh some uh bulk variance relief uh given its triangular shape and and u you know the structures
that are already on it um the position from our uh from the applicant's perspective is even though um this conversion is still not permitted it's probably more compatible
or less offensive to the zone district than what's there now and we will be presenting first uh a representative uh from the applicants uh we have an engineer we have an architect uh we have
um a traffic consultant and then we will wrap it up with a planner so Mr chairman what I'd like to do is start with uh having uh Manid uh testify who's to my right and uh he will go through the
operations what's there now and what's proposed going forward that's fine let's swear them in sure sir if you can raise your right hand please do you swear or affirm the testimony you're about to give before this board is the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth i
do can you just repeat your name and spell your last name for the record yeah you need that use the mic baja Baja Bind Apple thank you okay uh man uh you are one of the two
owners of the property correct it is correct all right and how long have you owned this property since 201 12 okay you have to you have to keep the microphone close to your mouth please all right so um you purchased it
it was being used as a gasoline uh station along with an auto repair shop correct that is correct all right um how many pumps do you have out there now two all right um how many repair bays are in the building uh one it's
like four okay technically um and besides selling gas and doing auto repairs is there any other service or product offered at the site no okay um and um you own other gas
stations correct it is correct um and this model that you're trying to do here is something consistent what you've done at other stations that you've owned correct that is correct all right um and what is it specifically you're proposing
to do on this property uh converting to sea store like these days you know repair shop disappearing so the idea is to go with sea store that's what most customer like it all
right and a sea store in you're referring to as a convenience store that's correct all right um and what would be the typical type products you'd be selling at this location like coffee soda chips oil uh
that kind of stuff okay um you wouldn't have a full kitchen in here making anything okay um and um the hours of operation what would you
propose for this store if you got the approval i like to have a 5 to 10 okay 5:00 a.m to 10:00 p.m yes okay and during those uh those hours of operation how many employees would you have on the site at any at any one time two at a
time two at a time okay um would the number of pumps gasoline pumps stay the same yes so you'd continue to have two yes all right um and the products that are delivered that
you'd be selling the um you know the food products and everything else those would all be prepackaged that is correct all right and how would they get delivered to this property usually I buy from HLA and that is big
company and they comes once a week and usually like uh they come during the day yes okay now would they come in a tractor trailer would they come in a you know van what would be the typical vehicle you'd see here box truck a box
truck okay um what about uh soda and milk and and things like that would they also be delivered at the same time no we have other company we buy from them um there like uh they deliver soda company like they give us
everything uh Pepsi Coke Snapples okay that kind of stuff all right and um milk is that more frequent less i mean when would you get the milk deliveries um we get like once a week there okay
um now gasoline when when do you get gasoline deliveries to this site now get like a two to three delivery every week so they come like during the day okay um would you
anticipate the frequency of those deliveries of gasoline changing in any way i can do that so So you would still expect to get two or three deliveries every week even after this conversion yes same okay excuse me the guy in the
back he cannot understand what he's saying he needs to project his voice more he can't make out what he's saying the red the mic is not red correct it's green it's green yeah so he's having he's having trouble understanding what he's doing is he is holding this thing i
tried to tell him twice you got to hold it like you're a rock star like this right just hold it closer to your mouth closer more closer right there right there right there now you can hear me i can hear you fine it's the guy in the
back room that can't hear you okay um so you you you had indicated you get two to three deliveries of gasoline every week correct that is correct all right and if the store is allowed to u happen um you
wouldn't expect the frequency of the gasoline deliveries to change it would still be two to three it is going to be two to three yeah all right um and how are those deliveries usually made
like uh there's a company I There you go you want me to switch yeah that's fine that's hold that close and I'll do this so usually when I order and uh and give them time table and that's what the the the time they use and the approximately
they come closer to the time and when do you um when do they come now oh whenever I order they're always different times you know so I don't think this isn't working hold it
the technical specialist over there it's not working hold on i just reset it does that help no stop [Music] no he's hitting it yeah you guys are out of sync i don't
know where you're at i think you pushed you guys are not on too much problem all right all right we'll we'll do it this way thank you um uh so all the deliveries would be during
the day correct nothing overnight that's correct all right um now why why are you switching from the repair shop to the convenience i mean what what's the the impetus for doing
that like this modern word uh you know the the cars getting more uh computerized and these mechanic now be able to fix the way and dealership gives you these days like $50,000 $100,000 warranty anything goes wrong and those
guys going over there you know so that's why you know is going going forward is going to be less and less going to be work for these guys you know now the proposal we'll get into your architect but the the idea A here is to also use
this as an opportunity to spruce the place up correct that is correct uh and without going into a lot of detail because we have other experts that'll talk about it generally what are you looking to do with the building i like to make like look nice you know all my
sites they looks good you know i I like to clean up the place and the customer like these clean nice place otherwise they don't go there you know so that's the whole reason you know we like to clean up the place your experience at the other and how many of these Well let
me ask it first one what do you call your convenience stores seventh Heaven Market okay so how many Seventh Heaven Markets do you have we have like 14 right now okay um and is it your
experience with those other 14 units that you're essentially the customers are primarily people there to get gas i mean do you get a lot of people who just come to the site just to buy the convenience store stuff
the mix but usually people come like who's going to buy the gas is he going to grab a cigarette they want to grab the coffee or like a morning like soda or something chips you know so this isn't like a waw wa or quick check where people will come just to shop no no okay
um and your your experience has been then that um you don't do you see really much of an increase in the traffic flow by making this conversion from what you have there now for gas no I don't think
so okay um I don't have anything further for uh this witness Mr chairman uh again we have some of the topics we'll get into a lot more detail with our other witnesses all right board questions anybody
are you planning to put uh do diesel in any of the pumps oh there is diesel already yes there's diesel already so you have two pumps one with gas gasoline and and and and they're like combined with gas and diesel yes
what who do you have semiis getting diesel there do they pull in and pull out do the big box trucks come in and get diesel also or Yes they do very uh rare but they some once in a
while they come yes do the semis have trouble turning no what brand of gas are you selling delta delta okay and so you have two pumps but
both of these pumps can can provide uh a variety of uh of octanes yes regular glass super yes okay all right and diesel and diesel yes but you got to have a different you got to have a different handle for the
diesel no these days you know a handle is only one there is a switch you know whatever octane you want to uh you know uh pump it you can push that button and it comes i you you just a personal note and I'll
blame my wife for this but yeah they don't change it because she took my new Cadillac in Pennsylvania and filled it up with diesel and ruin the engine so well yeah yeah yeah they don't that's what I thought cuz I said "Oh that's impossible." And the dealer said "No
they they eliminated." Remember they used to have the wider handhel yeah but the gas the diesel diesel have a separate nozzle yes oh you do now diesel have a separate nozzle but the gas all three optin comes from one right okay now we're
Pennsylvania may not do that but does does your pump have It's my recollection in another application we did a while ago and an idea of diesel fuel uh came up that there's a there are two types of pumps for diesel fuel one
is a more high-speed pump that the 18-wheelers can use otherwise the regular pump might have them sitting there for an hour hour and a half to get a full tank of gas which one of the pumps do you use no we have a regular
pump those those are made for the you know the cars you know so not like big track tractor trailer is like you can get like a small you know box truck maybe get like 20 30 gallon that that kind you know this is like a low flow
diesel pump not like a high speed you know well I'm interested in knowing that it's one that if one would inadvertently stop there would not want to do it again as far as the 18wheel trucks go
yeah this this is not designed for 18 wheeler no okay anybody else just two questions over here sir so the um the use of the diesel is I'm assuming you
have I'm assuming you have um like landscapers come in the morning to fill their Yes they do yes okay and then you had mentioned the type of trucks for deliveries
um the you know when it's some when it's like a Coke or Pepsi or some of these those are by box trucks no those are like small tax you know all everybody has a different you know vehicle but usually the small not bigger than box
truck you know like uh the soda guys you know he or chips guy comes he comes with a van you know so he delivered with the van you know so all none of your vendors that ever come not not with 18heer no okay thank
Just one more question um so you've seen the site plan that's been prepared where I guess two questions um where where would you anticipate the trucks to load and unload that's like engineering question right
yeah i mean but you generally have some idea well I think that I think the question is when did what time are these deliveries this I think will put in context well my question is and whether he can answer it or not I I I I know there's going to be engineering testimony and traffic engineering
testimony i'm sure they're going to but if he's an experienced operator of this type use I would assume he's consulted with his engineer and traffic engineer and perhaps advise them of his needs and how the site should operate so I'm
asking him if has he re has he reviewed this plan that's been prepared on his behalf and does he have an opinion based on the plan that's been prepared for him where the trucks are going to load and unload there's like uh they make a little you
know uh little stripes where they truck on a load and load you know uh awful small area like loading areas you know that's that's that's what my engineer figure out you know well there's no loading area on the plane there's no loading area on the
site I guess I I mean that's just a statement of fact I guess we'll hear from Yeah and and to to help them with this do you the trucks that are coming to make these deliveries what time do they usually come
like I said you know there's always different time so we we tell them when we need it and that that time they come in your in your other locations where do they generally unload when they pull when they pull in to make these deliveries you mean the gas delivery no I'm not talking about the
gas deliveries the the soda guy the the chip guy where do they usually park i mean do you have your other locations do you have dedicated spots or do they just park wherever there's a spot and make the delivery you know if you have bigger site we make like a separate you know
loading area but if you have a small site so then they see where the convenient is that's where they unload you know okay i don't know if that helps Mark but um well I guess we'll hear from some other testimony and then a similar question
with the um when the trucks come to fill the gas um you know now the site's pretty kind of open but in this revised with this with this plan there's going to be um striped islands and there's
going to be cars parked along Cedar A right up next to where the the you know the filling tanks if you will for I don't know the terminology same question have you reviewed this with your engineer and I I because some of that
the striped island is over the concrete pad where the filling the filling ports are so is a truck even going to be able to use that if there's if there's cars parked there is a truck even going to be able to use to to provide you gas very
small i think that if you if you pass by the location I think that there's a lot of cars right now you know so and that's not the question you know because you have a site plan and you're changing it and you're putting striped parking spaces where cars are going to be parked to go into the convenience store correct
so if cars are parked there they're right up next to where you know the filling area for the for for the tanks so the underground tanks oh I it have you looked at that with your engineer to make sure that that your site's going to function i talked with
my engineer he say it's going to work you know so he he can answer better on that one you know all right any other questions i just have one question uh as part of the testimony you'd mentioned that there's other convenience stores that you operate here any of them of the same scale on a
triangular lot like this yeah we have around that scale and and the bigger one they're both yes yes but I think this is a little more unique because you have a triangular lot it's kind of it's landlocking what can be done on this lot so do you have anything similar to this actual application
that's in effect i just done one uh convenience store in Rareton recently and this probably the same size of the lot is on a 40 Somerset Street uh Rariton New Jersey okay 40 Somerset Street what was that
what New Jersey rariton rariton east Somerset Street any other questions guess the next witness then all right i'd like to call Tyler Vanderborg you
can Thank you good evening can we plug in the computer here for use of the screens great all right while that starts go sure you're going to have to sit down you can sit and do it as long as you have the
mic do you swear or affirm that the testimony you're about to give before this board is the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth yes I do just uh repeat your name and spell your last name for the record please tyler Vanderval van Ner V A L K thank you Mr
vandervok um if you could let the board know your educational background your experience in testim and testifying on civil engineering matters and the status of your license here in New Jersey uh I am a licensed professional engineer in
the state of New Jersey my license is uh current and in good standing i am the owner of Civilized Engineering 64 Valley Road Butler New Jersey uh I have a bachelor's degree in civil engineering from New Jersey Institute of Technology accept as Thank
you thank you and your license is current correct yes it is all right uh Tyler you had overseen the preparation of the civil engineering plans that were submitted correct yes and we're on the screen um in front of us um what is the
date of those plans uh that you're going to be testifying to yes so these are last revised September 18 of last year okay 2024 all right so why don't you take us out
with um perhaps kind of a quick overview of what's there now and then what's being proposed um to accommodate this convenience store that the applicants want to install yeah absolutely i'm going to start off just
by sharing the survey which I believe should have been uh submitted with the application just so we can see a clear view of existing conditions this was prepared by Jim Chappelle uh September 21 of 2023 as you can see we do have um a
triangular shaped property where we're narrower towards the south side and wider towards the north uh we have frontage on three different streets that's Elizabeth Avenue and Cedar Avenue primarily to the east and west and then uh Mercury Street down at the
intersection to the south uh we are located in the R10 residential district um the main building on the property is located towards the northerly side
um a little over 2,000 ft² as mentioned operating as a maintenance garage with uh multiple bays the site is largely paved uh both around the building and then around the fuel areas as well we have an existing canopy located along Elizabeth Avenue
where we have uh two dispensers for a total of four fueling positions today we have access to the property by means of four different driveways two off of Elizabeth Avenue and two off of Cedar uh moving back to the site plan we
can see in the key map there that we are located just north of the 287 overpass uh again in the R10 district surrounded entirely by the R10 district until we pass under 287 where we enter a business district uh as far as
surrounding uses we have to the west undeveloped uh township owned property to the north we have new residential single family builds that just went in in the last couple years uh to the east we have additional single family homes uh and then as I mentioned to the south
we have um the 287 overpass the proposal as you heard is to change the use of the structure from a maintenance garage to a convenience store uh we'll see the architectural plans but this will be done by removing the bay doors putting in some uh big
glass windows uh and then obviously repurposing the interior use and a facelift to the outside we'll see those uh through the architect's drawings and renderings as part of the change in use we're looking at a number of site improvements uh striping the parking lot
removing a good portion of the impervious coverage around the building that's not needed for vehic vehicular access we'll be closing the northerly Cedar Avenue driveway um to reduce the number of access driveways uh to provide
parking along Cedar Avenue the signage for the gas station will remain unchanged we will have a all building mounted signs that exist today will be removed we will have one new sign on the building simply uh stating the convenience store name that will be
below the required 30 square ft at 29 ft and we'll be able to see an image of that on the architectural plans we'll be providing ballards along the front edge of the building in order to separate pedestrian traffic from vehicular traffic the parking requirement for this
size building on the plans we indicated 15 stalls required that was uh excluding storage areas in the building based on the professional reports it seems like those are should be included in which case 17 is the actual required number on the plan uh that's here in front of you
we had shown a proposal for 11 that was 10 physical stalls and one credit for an EV charging station again in reviewing the professional reports seeing that we're under the 25 stall uh where a EV stall would be required um that credit
may not be applied in this case in which case 10 is proposed and again 17 required just to clean up some of those numbers so a variance is required for parking in this scenario and we will hear from the traffic engineers some justification for that as uh as well as
practically how this functions on the site there are a number of other improvements as far as um lighting and landscaping i do want to present a new exhibit to the board where we did uh some potential layout changes just to get in front of the board's eyes based
on comments that were made by the professionals specifically regarding loading zones uh location of the dumpster which is currently um on Cedar Avenue uh in fact when I drove by a couple months ago it was
actually in the street unfortunately but there is a pad off of the sidewalk on that northeast corner where it's typically supposed to be kept but there was comments about moving that interior to the site so pickup isn't done off of Cedar A there were comments about uh not having proper aisle spacing on the
parking stalls and uh wanting a a greater vegetative buffer between the parking on Cedar Avenue and the sidewalk on Cedar Avenue so to address a bunch of that we prepared a new exhibit which provides a slightly different layout uh but it does result in significantly less
parking and that's why we're sort of presenting as an alternative yes we can solve those issues but it comes at the expense of a greater parking variance why don't we mark that as an exhibit A1 and if you can just uh yes okay if you can just identify
exactly what it is and the date of it and absolutely we'll do that before we hand them out here so this is entitled alternative layout exhibit you might as well take this and it's with today's date April 3rd
2025 and as I mentioned essentially what it represents is an alternative parking layout with inclusion of dumpster interior to the site loading zone interior to the site uh addition additional pedestrian access from the uh street sidewalks additional land landscape
buffering can you put that up on the um Yes let me um I don't think I have that file [Music] open so what's up on the screen is what's up on the screen is A1 correct all
right okay so I guess just to take it a item at a time we'll start at the northeast corner this is where the dumpster pad was located again pickup was accomplished from Cedar Avenue uh the idea being here to get it away from those residences get it interior to the
site so we moved that to the westerly side of the property at the end of a dedicated loading stall so this would be for deliveries of the various items that were just discussed by the applicant as well as for the garbage pickup uh we've provided a sidewalk next to that loading
zone in that area to access the back door of the building for deliveries uh so they don't have to move uh through the front of the property we've also moved there used to be three parking stalls in that area that were set all the way back on the existing curb line we've moved that back
to be more appropriate to where the entrance is on the northerly entrance on Elizabeth A this provides additional landscape buffering to the north um and additional green space overall as far as a lower impervious coverage which again we were already reducing but this would uh significantly bring it down even
more uh so that's the loading zone and the dumpster in addition what this has done is it made the parking stalls along Cedar to be parallel to Elizabeth and to the fueling operation so we didn't have that awkward angle interaction between the fueling operation and the parking
unfortunately that's what I was going to ask there's a is the uh I see the the pumps there and sort of below the pumps sort of kind of to the right um is a a
square and the word co period appears in it is that where the is that where the fueling uh takes place that's where per Yeah that's where you would bring your car and and get your tank filled well no that's what that's Oh oh the larger rectangle i'm I'm sorry below the canopy
that's So those are the underground tanks with the access ports on the surface right so those are existing we're not looking to change that um this does provide you know additional separation to the parking there was a prior question from the planner um
regarding parking being such close proximity to those tanks so this does separate that a little bit further um it does provide a thicker uh landscape buffer and we can provide an additional shade tree as part of this layout it also provides a pedestrian sidewalk
running from uh the building out to the sidewalk on cedar uh as well as this gives internal an option for people who park not to have to walk through the uh parking lot but instead step up on that sidewalk uh to access the building so
overall I agree with those comments that were submitted certainly um we want to generally focus and and provide these things the sacrifice in this case is the parking where now we have the six stalls where previously there were 10 um
certainly we still have the fueling positions where people typically leave their car and run into the store and then come out and get back in their car again by ordinance they're not counted as stalls but practically speaking they do function as such and also the nature of this use typically is that people
aren't in and out a lot faster than a typical retail use where you might be running into a grocery store for 45 minutes um but the traffic expert will speak on that a little bit more how do you how do you come up with six parking
stalls i'm looking at one two three four and the fourth one oh that's a that's a handicapped spot yes there's one additional next to the loading zone along Elizabeth to the top to the top to
the north and then to the south in that triangular point at the bottom okay there's one additional stall there which would likely be used by employees you got to work in there right okay thanks so that that's what this exhibit really highlights um you can see
if you look at page two of the original submission the landscaping versus list landscaping this would provide a lot more green space in fact I think uh what we were looking at previously was a reduction from 90 plus% impervious coverage to 80 something impervious
coverage this exhibit here would only pro would provide about 75% so it's dropping yet another 10% which is significant certainly um so there are there are certainly benefits here i think the parking works and you'll hear that from the from the
expert i I just have a quick question to clarify mine with the parking if if each employ of the two employees comes in a separate car and one is handicap parking that means you only have three available
to the general public having worked on these applications for a while now with this applicant his employees typically carpool if they're not dropped off um and that's been a standard across his sites um this is how he hires employees
and this is how they typically operate um so I would envision really that you have four remaining after the handicap and employees i don't think we can we can put in the resolution though that the employees
have to be that's understood in you know depend on that plus you have the other issue if there's two employees there and he happens to come and check the place out that's a third a third spot someplace
now we're down another spot that doesn't seem doesn't seem like there's very much parking for yeah I mean there are numbers that are very um what's the word this has been studied I guess with the emergence of the convenience store which sort of changes
the retail use significantly as far as cars coming and going how long they're around how many typically come to the site and that's really what our traffic engineer is going to focus on so I think we should rely on that testimony as far as the parking being sufficient
okay in and the in the back part of the the rear of the property yes it's it's a fence there correct there's an existing fence there yes and what's what are the uh what's the landscaping so we're providing a row of
um Green Giant arborites this tends to be a thick uh vegetative screen they grow rapidly about a foot to a foot and a half a year um and we've planted them quite close together so this this should screen out the northernly properties what kind of lighting is across the back
yeah so going back to uh the original submitted plan because that's where we're showing the lighting which I don't anticipate to change much as part of this alteration there's no lighting to the back of the building uh the site is being lit by means of three building
mounted fixtures this would be one facing Elizabeth on the westerly side and then two on the south side of the building facing uh the parking lot uh additionally there would be four fixtures on the underside of the canopy which are recessed into the canopy and
we are anticipating uh two polemounted fixtures one within the island which is now much larger um on Cedar Avenue facing the interior of the site and the other being on the south uh peninsula at the intersection again facing interior
to the site all these fixtures would be 90 degree fixtures not angled and the light source themselves would be recessed into the housing of the fixture so no glare situation okay i'm just concerned about the uh big new house
that's just been built there yeah this is why we didn't propose any polemounted fixtures back there and certainly with the alternative that we just looked at bringing that parking further south it gives it even a bigger buffer to those properties all right because it it's not
a big setback on the either property from the building yeah it's tight that might be the one setback that we actually comply with with this application but well the house but I don't disagree the house is uh the that's a sideyard setback for the house
it's not very uh big in our zone either so it's tight back in the back th those properties are the buildings are not that far apart yeah certainly they should see an improvement if this application is approved significant landscape buffer
removal of impervious coverage from those areas and uh we're not proposing any lighting uh to the rear okay go on i didn't mean to I to be honest you probably caught me at the end anyway um I don't think I had much more direct that I wanted to cover we went
through the the professionals reports uh there wasn't any specific concerns that we were unwilling to address i would say the only um item that I I kind of wanted to talk about was the Cedar A mortorium understanding that it was paved recently
and we're closing a driveway there we would need to replace a drop curb with a full depth curb i don't know if something could be worked out where you know we could have a TCO and he can start work and that sort of thing before the mortorium is lifted and then once it's lifted we come back and we do that
curb i'm not I'm just not sure how that impacts the application as far as the timeline and maybe it's premature to even discuss that but okay questions i have a question um while you're preparing the site plan you do any
vehicle movement studies auto turn so we did run through um the delivery truck to make sure that they can get in and out um and again if you've been to the site you see that it's even more constrained
than what we're proposing here so we don't anticipate any issues certainly as a as a condition or if we don't get that far for the next meeting uh we could supply that information yeah I I think I'm just kind of echoing uh Mark's concern uh about general on-site
circulation and safety so if we play out a very reasonable situation where there is a fueling truck that comes on site they're utilizing the underground ports or whatever would that block the parking spaces to the east would it allow a
customer to pull into the the bay to to fuel up um h how would that overall impact operations and to your point I drive past this site twice a day i see it every day and would love to see it be a convenience store but there there is a lot of site constraints here I think
that you're you're dealing with and and safety automatically kind of comes to the forefront so So you're not wrong about the operation um certainly on sites like this we see the operation during the the tanks being filled be limited in this case where the truck is
going to be pulling uh over the vicinity of these tanks you're likely going to see one aisle of the under the canopy be closed coned off during those fueling um you might see the Cedar A driveway be coned off during that fueling but this is not
um untypical of a small site like this you you just said the Cedar Avenue it's going to be closed right the the driveway Well there's two driveways on Cedar Avenue one will remain open the southerntherly one will remain open so the trailer is likely to be blocking that entrance during the filling
positions but we still have the two driveways on Elizabeth i'll ultimately defer to our our board engineer here on on whether or not he thinks it's safe and it's it passes the sniff test and the the proper documentation has been provided to Darren for his review but I I did just want to raise that as a
concern from from my side i I have a a question the the the again uh the place where the uh the tanks are filled there's uh not on your new drawing but on the original drawing
there's a it looks like almost like an overhang over what what's that that's striping on the on the ground yeah so originally ask him the questions he knows there you go there you go yeah it's striping um we
replaced that with curbing in the in the newer version um just again to get more landscaping there um the tanks can be buried under under grass as long as the ports are accessible so you can see we're not we're not bringing the curbing over the ports there okay
so Mr chairman I just have I I just have a um I don't know I guess a procedural question this is turn this all the way down so really more of a procedural
question um you know staff reviewed a completely different plan uh we have not Darren and I and the other staff reviewed this application you know this is the first time we're seeing it so I'm I'm not
really sure what I don't know i'm not I'm sure I'm not sure what the applicant's intent is to I can answer that i Look this is a small site we understand it right now it's probably not a site that many of you would want to see
here we're trying to come up with an approach that enhances visually the site while doing so in a responsible way we understand that this would have to be more engineered out but what we what we want to do
is let the board see what an option is and you you heard Tyler indicate the tradeoff here is more landscaping um you know a a perhaps a a better visual site at the expense of some
parking spaces and if if that is a direction the board thinks is better than what was proposed we'll design it you know and then allow you know the board's professional staff to look at it
not trying to skirt anything back by but uh you know in preparing for this and looking at the reports and everything else we felt that you know this may be an option that would fly better than
what was originally proposed well maybe when uh you're considering these other options I'm speaking for myself but uh like to see something done with the
parking because I'm afraid for instance if you're filling if the gas delivery is there and the truck is over the tanks it's likely that you're blocking one or two parking spaces as well as some one of pump aisles right and I can see a
convenience store person coming here seeing what's going on park on Cedar Avenue run in the store to get something and and come back i really wouldn't want to see parking the temptation given to people
to customers to park on either street Elizabeth or Cedar i think I think the I think the parking can be an issue i don't know what you do you know maybe have you considered tearing down the
existing building making another one maybe a little smaller but moving it as far to one side as you can freeing up other space on one or the other side of the of
the new building i don't know i'm not I'm not an architect an engineer or any of the other things but you are correct when you're saying that this is tight yeah and and look the the option is if
these don't work we just continue to use it as a gasoline station with an auto repair shop i mean that's Well we don't want to get into this and then it's operating and then we find out there are problems would like would like to anticipate ahead of time so the problems
don't come i I really want to see what the traffic expert has to say that's fine but I I can't I don't see how you function with the chance that there might only be three parking spaces available but we're
talking about three deliveries a week those deliveries usually you know are 10 minutes at a at a time during those 10 minutes and those three times yes the the the issue that you raise is certainly a legitimate one um but it's
you know in the totality of the circumstances I you know it's kind of like planning the parking for the Christian church for Christmas you know I mean yeah you're going to need a lot of spaces for that one time do you plan
that way or do you try to say well look you know there there may be an instance and the same thing here well maybe you don't develop a comprehensive plan for that situation but is there an is there an option you know if these things happen and they
exist where's a where's a customer going to go other than maybe drive away well well and that's typically what happens the reality is it's a they call it a convenience store for a reason if it's not convenient you're not stopping Um and that's where this is different than a Dunkin Donuts or Starbucks where
people want that specific coffee they're going to wait on the line until they get it in this case if you wanted a Red Bull or you wanted a just a coffee from a gas station you're going to go to the next one if you can't find a parking spot and uh that's that's the reality of this use but or they'll park on Cedar Avenue
which is not prohibited but it sounds like nobody wants that but it's not prohibited well I I did the issue or the You need a use variance ultimately it's not just a site plan i mean this is a use variance you need to prove that this
site is particularly suitable to be both a gas station everybody's got and a convenience store and you have a number of different variances but the but the one the chairman's talking about is you're require you're required to have 18 parking spaces and you have six you
have a third of the required parking spaces for a convenience store which in my experience can for certain times of the day in the morning when a bunch of people are going you know in the morning to get their coffee and their bagels or whatever on their way to work at the
same time that people come you know the landscapers are coming or the people going to work are filling up that's not Christmas time that could be every weekend morning or weekday morning but the difference is this isn't the only convenience store And people as Tyler
said if if you can't get to it they just won't come you'll go down to the next one you know I don't know if that's something that the I don't know if that's something that the board can hang your hat on if you need to prove that this site is particularly suitable absolutely both a gas station and a
convenience store and and we have a number of experts here to make sure the board understands it that's that's the burden that the applicant has that's right go ahead and and just so Mark just so that you understand uh I'm looking at this application in terms of the
original uh drawing not this one this is something he showed us that's of interest but it's this drawing that uh this application's all about because you had said which one is it and I thought that was a good question
so then we'll withdraw this one and we'll just go with the original one that was submitted which gives you more parking um in looking at the parking layout just a couple things I want to bring up to the board's attention right now this this site everybody's parking on the site is coming in and parking parallel
to Cedar you're changing the parking to head on that's creating a lot of issues in terms of driveway aisles and everything else we haven't touched on it yet but you're there's a 26 foot wide drive required in the township you're only going to have 15 ft and then if
there's somebody getting gas especially on those angled ones at the end I don't see how that person gets out if somebody's filling up right now yeah as as I mentioned in the report these items were raised certainly they they're valid points and that's why we
presented this alternative essentially we can meet those standards but at a sacrifice to number of parking jess I know you were withdrawing the exhibit but even on the exhibit I don't think you're meeting the standard because you're not providing the correct aisle still and that's something I wanted to
yeah we're we're providing 24 ft in that case which I understand the ordinance is 26 24 ft is certainly operational and industry standard for two-way operation 12 ft in each direction so yes a design waiver or the like would would be
required but closer certainly than closer but I just want to be clear for the record because sure it's being presented that it's meeting and it's not I don't think we presented it as meeting it i think he said he addressed all of the board's comment professional oh okay
yeah maybe not technically but yeah at least tried to address them generally which improve upon it correct um now in terms of layout uh it's unclear is this site supposed to operate as a one-way travel lane is it two-way traffic it's Yeah I saw I saw that note no it was
always intended to be two-way i don't think there's any one-way circulation here the traffic report says it's oneway circulation i think you need to clarify with the traffic certainly i I think that I can address that in testimony so I think maybe if if this is what you intend to do then there were a bunch of
comments in the staff reports you said you're going to comply with the staff reports but I think you need to explain to the board how you're going to do that i mean Darren in particular had a number of comments about how this site may or may not function this site plan layout i
think you need to explain to the board you know they have Darren's report they have my report typically you need to explain how you're going to address the staff's comments to the board yeah and I apologize we we took a 90° turn about 10 minutes ago but um yeah if so certainly
if we're going at it with this plan because uh we're afraid of losing the parking uh then there are a number of comments that are not addressed um the dumpster is located on Cedar Avenue what we were proposing in this case where it was staying was to provide at least a
fenced enclosure that certainly remain within that enclosure um and that's where it gets picked up that's how it's operating today without the fence and uh sometimes not being on the pad it's supposed to be on um but it would
continue to do so um the parking we would still be closing off the northerly Cedar Avenue driveway parking would be perpendicular to Cedar Avenue we'd be picking up uh six stalls in that area but we would have a very narrow uh vegetative strip between the sidewalk and the curb we were proposing
landscaping with that in that uh we could adjust the landscaping in order for it to be more viable potentially uh but we don't have an opportunity to widen that island uh in this case uh given again the setbacks that are already deficient to the the fueling
area uh we could provide uh turning templates that show how cars can get in and out of there certainly because we're angled to the can canopy it gives us additional opportunity to get out of those stalls same goes for uh the handicap um we could show how that would
work the three stalls to the north uh certainly we could address that comment and bring those further south uh so that the end of those stalls is more in line with the driveway uh that would still work out just fine um that change the EV
uh as I mentioned we would lose that credit as discussed in his report we'd probably just lose the EV charging station in that case it would just be a standard uh parking stall to the south and then there were a number of comments about um types of landscaping
location landscaping i think it was uh amenities you know such as benches or artwork things like that in the ordinance we would address those uh with the open space that we have to the east of the building uh and certainly the sidewalk in front of the building could be extended to the sidewalk in cedar
still in this case even and we would uh be willing to do that so it really comes down to the loading zone and and the dumpster and um the separation between parking and Cedar Avenue those are really the ones that aren't met in this scenario and we would still be looking
for waiverss for the drive aisle with and also too there was a note on the lighting plan that we violate uh or don't comply by one foot candles at the property line yeah I mean that's an easy fix the the fence wasn't part of the model i think once that's in the model
that goes to zero for sure and we will make that comply so there's other things I just even with this layout uh I know you said you're going to provide turning templates i think they need to be seen because even those six spots I think you can only get
to them either in or out in one direction there's not going to be you're not going to be able to come in or out in both like especially the western one and then also the ADA spot if you come in that means you're going to back up directly out and you're only going to be able to leave through Cedar Avenue unless you fully back out into Elizabeth
Avenue which we're not going to want seen you would have to leave to the south either to the Elizabeth on the south or Cedar to the south i I agree yeah so that I mean that those are constraints that the board's going to need to be aware of as they vote on this and that's why we're going to need to see turning templates on that on top of
that portion there the reason why that two-ft vegetative strip is a concern of mine is cars are going to park over they're going to overhang into that and kill any landscaping there's going to be glare for the neighbors across the street with headlights at night because this is going to operate till 10:00 so
any car that pulls in or if say they pull in and they forget to turn their lights off the neighbor across the street is potentially going to get headlights in their front yard would would the board entertain um a fence al along that sidewalk uh for screening we could even we could keep it at four feet
certainly i mean I think at a minimum I'd rather see a 4ft fence than the landscape because at least it'll protect the the screening but that's ultimately a board decision but how does how does the fence not get damaged by cars or I think that they're also going to probably have to add in
curb stops right to keep to keep the uh cars away but I think the negative on the curb stops is that may affect their in and out movement you need to see the turning template to see how it actually all functions i mean I'll be honest with you I ran a few turning templates myself and it wasn't looking promising on this site
but I'll let you bring in your own exhibits on it anything else we don't have any i mean if there's additional questions for Tom I'm going to take uh this spot in the meeting now to open up to the public uh this is a chance if
anyone out there wants to ask questions uh concerning the testimony of either of the two witnesses that we have uh questions should be obviously about this project it's not the time to make a
statement and say you do or you don't like what's happening ask questions to bring out information that can be helpful to everybody in coming to a determination about
this application so you're open to the public is there anyone who wants to ask a question come up to the mic at the We need your name and address when you get there and of course speak into the mic famous last words i will but I have to
turn it on first i think sitting here all night i think it's green so I think it's on already is it on maybe just Hello hi I'm Margaret Huten Moser and I'll
spell my last name it's h u e t e n m o s er and I live at 328 Elizabeth Avenue and I am about three houses away from this project um and
so you said you don't want to hear statements and I only had a statement or well I had a few things that I wanted to address so if I'm going to ask a question about this what I'd like to know is about the parking because I
believe there are two buildings across the street that are public uh or businesses right they're businesses office buildings and they have right they're office buildings and they have quite a bit of parking and they're almost directly across from here and my
concern is that somebody would just kind of hop in the lot and hop over to the store and hop back out and um also on Cedar uh it's not a side there it's not a sidewalk there it's just
pavement the road it's just paved there's no sidewalks so if someone were to going to walk to the convenience store um it would be very difficult for them to walk and be safe we have a hard time walking around our block cuz I'm a
little nervous so I'm concerned about that and also the like you said the the turning of the cars there and the lights themselves uh with people um the houses right uh so
yeah I'm I'm a little concerned about it and there are buses that fill up there and there are box trucks and sometimes there's a semi there that fills up so it's not just a gas station for little
cars that's not happening okay okay that's You'll get a chance to make a statement at the end of the testimony so keep it all in mind so it's all about the parking that's my question all about the parking and the
accommodation for pedestrians in the street without sidewalk yeah i I can answer well you said it yeah I'm happy to answer those questions uh as far as our property itself we have sidewalk around
the entire frontage i think the concern is that once you get beyond our property there's no more sidewalk uh so there's not much we can do in in the way of that um as far as the office buildings across the street I would just take a look at the aerial here you can see that it's
not directly across the street it's a actually um you have to go down the whole property behind us and then go across and as mentioned there's no sidewalk in front of the neighbor only only in front of our property so I don't suspect that that would happen it would much more
likely they would park on Cedar where they're allowed to park away from the busy busyiness of Elizabeth okay anyone else have questions yes good evening jim Wickman uh Darwin Road Somerset New Jersey um as it relates to parking and traffic flow um and I'm
assuming someone is going to come up and testify to that when we look at the the uh drawing the the entrance towards towards triangle end if if there are cars waiting in line to get
fuel and maybe even on the other side because who knows what way you come in which is going to be chaotic um it doesn't seem to me like there's nearly enough room that if I'm in the parking spot at number six and I do or say I'm in the handicap spot where I've got to
back into the Ballards just about in order because I think my only exit is towards the triangle to that exit onto Elizabeth Avenue which is going to be backed up with cars waiting to get gas so it it's going to just kind of all
bundle up and I don't know if that's been uh considered in the in the uh traffic flow or whatever study i'm sure somebody could speak to it but if they could speak to that that you've got a very limited number of spots uh relying on the spots at the gas pumps as parking
is a little I mean come on let's be honest that means they're going to be in the store which means their cars are going to be there longer than they need to be which means cars are going to back up which means the entrance and exits are going to be blocked so if somebody
could address that dilemma of too many vehicles on that small piece of property at the same time whether they're parked fueling moving whatever yeah we'll we'll have a traffic expert i I think some of these things that are
being mentioned it's it's conflating and inflating I should say the the numbers quite a bit but let's let the traffic engineer put that on the record okay anyone else wish to ask a question all right then we'll close to the public and move on
thank you um Bill Burn would be our next witness oh [Applause] yeah thanks uh Mr burn if you can raise your right hand please uh do you swear or affirm that the testimony you're about to give
before this board is the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth yes I do just repeat your name and spell your last name for the record please sure it's it's William Burn b Y R N E thank you uh Mr burn uh could you uh you're going to be testifying as a licensed
architect correct that's correct can you let the board know your educational background your experience in land use and architectural matters and the status of your license sure um graduate of Satan Hall University i've been licensed as an architect uh since
1994 um I've appeared before many land use boards um and been accepted as an expert in the field of architecture my license is in good standing okay we accept it thank you uh now Bill you were responsible for overseeing the renovations
uh to the existing structure correct that is correct all right um why don't you walk us through what was proposed and and I think this is something that the board has not seen this is a colored rendering of what's you've proposed
that's correct and and and what is Yeah all right you can I'll I'll hand these up and you can So this um exterior elevation has has changed since the original submission and that's obviously
why we've uh provided a uh a new exhibit um the original uh proposal was to enhance the existing building um the existing building has many features that make it far more commercial in nature than I I believe um
what we've now proposed and as part of the planner's report um comments were made that the architectural style and the improvements to this building um really should be more cohesive and more uh sympathetic I I would say to the residential neighborhood as the property
is in a residential zone it is surrounded by residential properties for the most part and so um we we took that opportunity to um re-evaluate you know how we could address um you know those comments and how we could make this building a a bit
more um cohesive to the residential character of that neighborhood and so within these exhibits you see on the top left of the sheet the front elevation which faces the parking lot um and the the main character um feature that we've added to this is is that of a pitched
roof the existing building has a flat roof um roughly at the facial line that that we see here on this um on this rendering um and so our proposal is to put a pitched roof a top this building so again we are increasing the height we're still well within the limits and and still within the character of of the
residential neighborhood but our feeling was that a pitched roof of this nature was going to blend this building far more um pleasingly to to that of the neighborhood um we've we've looked at this opportunity to reconsider some of the windows and door placements um that we
show on that front elevation so again the scale of those is is more residential in nature i mean we do have banks of windows which I think are are typical in this use and I think they're they're um helpful because motorists and and customers at the fueling can can see into the store and and potentially um
you know desire to go into the store but but again the idea was to scale these back toward more of that of a of a residential um you know type look not not a strip of glass not large banks of glass that would be inconsistent with more of a residential um you know
structure um we also looked at the exterior uh treatment of the siding um we've we've proposed in this case a blending of of stone along the base of the elevation uh on that front as well as around that main front entrance door
um we've got then another layer of clapboard siding um in this case that would be in the in the middle section and as the building um elevates we have another textured siding material that would take us from the top of those windows up to the eve line so we we feel
again um you know looking at this facade it creates some variety in the facade it creates some visual interest and we do think more consistent with um the residential character of that neighborhood this elevation also reflects the sign that was mentioned by our engineer and we can see it placed
above that front door um in in the text and coloration that that would be uh the branding for this particular market the consistency of the stone that we're proposing here is the stone that was used some time ago to renovate the kiosk on the canopy so again there is
some consistency between the kiosk and the canopy detail and what is being proposed here on the building so that was another tiein and another comment in the planner report um if we were to go now to the elevation to the right of that um front elevation that would be
the right side elevation and this this elevation faces um the side street um we have reduced windows and openings on that side but still try to maintain the character of you know more of a residential look so we do have three
high windows facing the high street more or less transom that would allow some light in but not certainly not to dominate and then below that we have a detail that we use often in situations like this which have um essentially closed window shutters so it's a detail that that makes them appear to be much
larger windows but in reality the architectural detail that's being proposed is out of a closed window shutter going to the rear elevation on the bottom left of the page again we have um all the same siding and trim treatments and a very nice texturing i think the the hip hip roof the new
pitched roof really reflects well here and again we understand that there are some residential neighbors that are quite close to this um and and and just to create some visual interest we do show um a variety of again that closed uh window shutter detail so again it gives the impression the look of windows
a nice style um in our opinion nice trim band um but in this case without any windows or openings to the back we're not concerned about any light shed or any impact on that neighbor again we feel this is a nice backdrop if we were that neighbor as compared to maybe what
there is there today which is you know a very bright um you know building much more of a commercial appearance to that building um the the very last elevation is that of the left side elevation and again this faces that um other opposite
side street not a significant um difference from the rear elevation and there's there's no actual openings proposed on this side but we do offer some nice trim details and some window details sheet number two of the set it remains unchanged from that original
submission so there's there's not been any um proposed changes to this sheet um is that second So so this is the floor plan uh the building's uh footprint remains unchanged from how it is currently um it's essentially a main front and center
entrance door as we saw in the front elevation this faces the parking and the pumps the fueling pumps we've got a retail area um primarily inside typically these stores and I have been involved with most of those 17 that that our applicant has mentioned um not all
but most um so this would be an area where there would be you know freestanding shelving and things like that offering some flexibility you know we've got a checkout counter an area for storage and we do have a cooler for for soft drinks and and milk and eggs and things of that nature and we will be
adding a u a handicap lavatory to this this um building and that would be located inside many cases where we've seen um laboratories in these older buildings they don't meet current code requirements and often times they're accessed from the exterior but obviously for lots of reasons we we chose to put
the laboratory inside the building and uh and we do have a storage area to the to the back right just for product storage so there's a couple things there's a as I look at this there's a a space uh directly below uh the storage
space on the right hand side uh what is that the only thing isn't named it's not labeled but I think our intention was that to be an office just a management office for the Yeah and then it's going to be just one single bathroom that's correct it's a unisex bathroom and
that's what is required for this use and this size all right any board questions just one question Mr chairman so um the other so this comes so you my comments come from the our architectural
or or commercial design standards um one of the other ones is uh when a when a application has several structures so you have the convenience store you have the canopy for the uh filling station and you have the freestanding sign and
the design standards say that there should be a a consistent style or architectural theme throughout the site have you looked at those other structures on the site i did look at the canopy um obviously and um at some point the canopy had been
renovated but I know more recently there was a kiosk that was was created there and we looked at that as sort of a um inspiration towards some of those textures and features um that we've added primarily being the consistent stone that has a stucco wall finish we didn't feel that that necessarily was
the best um in this case with the larger massing but the feeling was that we were trying to stick with a colorway that would uh be respectful of that the canopy itself I I mean it would be I would almost argue that the building today probably has more of a
stylistic um consistency with that canopy it's a flat roof canopy not unlike most um stations they would have a very similar canopy to that um so to the extent that we could tie the building into that we we think that we did but ultimately I would argue that
we've really taken this building and and enhanced it far further than than that consistency would lead uh I mean I think this is really the opportunity that we have and that the board has to really look toward a substantial improvement in my opinion to to the architecture of this building and a substantial
investment on the applicant's part i will also add but but the answer is that the the red and blue canopy is going to stay unchanged the the red and blue I believe is part of the Delta branding so I'm not sure that there would be the ability to
uh to to change that signing uh that signage unless the the branding the brand of fuel that was served here would would change it's not just a sign the entire canopy is blue but that I mean blue and red but that's your answer i got it any other
comments that's it yes okay we'll open to the public again if you'd like to ask the architect a question concerning his testimony now is your opportunity then we'll close to the public and uh
yes Mr chairman I'd uh now like to call our traffic consultant just a thought Mr chairman um we have the traffic engineer and then also the planner um usually your witching hour is 10:00 and we're 15 minutes of so just a
thought and it seems like the traffic is and the parking is kind of the big or one of the big issues i don't know if you want to start or Well usually we don't start any new testimony after 10 o'clock i
Can you do your report relatively efficiently are you efficiently i know you can but quick i can I can certainly go through my report quickly um it it becomes a matter of the questions and there's been a lot of dialogue already about the parking layout and so forth so
um that's it's the board's choice do the uh testimony we can do the questions at the next meeting if we need to okay okay so why don't we swear you in uh do you swear or affirm that the testimony you're about to give before this board is the truth the whole truth and nothing
but the truth yes I do uh if you can just repeat your name and spell your last name for the record elizabeth Dolan D O L dolan and Dean Consulting Engineers 181 West High Street in Somerville New Jersey thank you Miss Dolan if you could uh let the board know
your uh educational background your experience in land use matters and the status of your license uh yes licensed professional engineer registered in New Jersey and neighboring states my New Jersey license is in good standing we accept that you almost have your own state uh Miss
Dolan um in anticipation of the filing of this application you in fact prepared a report dated September 19 2024 did you not yes okay uh why don't you walk us through and you've been at the uh this hearing since it started correct yes I
have so you've heard some of the questions raised about parking and internal traffic situation all right so I'll let you uh take us out and u hopefully we can get a lot done in the next 15 minutes okay um as as stated we
issued a uh September 19 2024 traffic study uh pretty conventional traffic study that began with traffic counts at the uh site the site driveways uh along Cedar along Elizabeth at the intersections uh those counts were
performed back in August 2024 during the typical times when gas stations are busiest and convenience stores are busiest which is 7 to 9 in the morning and 4 to 6:30 uh on an e Tuesday evening i would point out that these are August
volumes uh I have other counts up and down Elizabeth Avenue that are from when school's in session the numbers are a little bit higher but they would not materially change the results of the report uh this is not a particularly
busy gas station uh when you uh think about gas stations on um a highway uh the the volume of traffic passing by gas stations and convenience stores on highways is much greater than the volumes that are passing this site um on
Elizabeth Avenue and Cedar Avenue um and as a result because a lot of uh gas station traffic is drawn from the traffic already passing by this is not a busy gas station we're uh during the morning peak hour we had 19 vehicles
visiting the site in in the one busiest hour and in the evening peak hour 32 um and I would just point out that that that volume is much lower than IT and uh NJ do trip rates uh with with 19
vehicles in the morning our standard DOT trip generation would say we would expect 36 uh we had 32 that we counted in the evening peak hour and I contrast that with 46 based on the DOT numbers for a gas station so uh it's not a
particularly busy gas station and that's because the uh traffic volumes passing by the site are not that high uh but that's what we did record um at the location and then for the future condition we go to the IT trip
generation manual and they have a land use category that's called convenience store gas station and they further break it down based on the size of the building uh so for a category of 2 to 4,000 square ft that's where we fit in
um the numbers would go up from as I said 19 vehicles visiting the site during the morning to 40 42 uh during the morning peak hour so it's a it's a total increase in driveway volume of 48 over the morning peak hour uh less of
an increase in the evening peak hour because the IT data finds that these sites are busiest in the morning and that's that coffee um generation really that that seems to be uh popular with convenience stores uh
even if they're not branded as Duncan um so it's an increase of 16 total driveway volume um movements during the evening peak hour so when we run all the numbers and we look at the the driveway movements and so forth we calculate acceptable levels of service even with
the increase that would bring us to a busy highway station with a small convenience store uh certainly this is not a um five or 6,000 square foot um Wawa or Quick Check those do much greater volume this is not branded as a
Duncan a gas station mart with with you know this um applicant's own uh mart name so the real plus here is that we're catering to the existing customer base um when you
look at the activity at these sites we're not drawing a lot of new trips just for the convenience store we're we're looking to serve those customers who are buying gas and so while we did analyze the numbers based on the IT
database I'm not sure that we're going to reach quite that volume but that's the conservative estimate and and when I know there was a a question in the public from the public about so many cars being on this site at one time and there was also a question I think
from Darren about one way versus two-way when you look at the traffic counts that are um shown in the in the back of our report figure two you can see that the majority of customers coming to this site now are coming uh um entering and exiting on Elizabeth Avenue left turns
right turns into and out of both Elizabeth Avenue driveways uh we had lesser activity on the Cedar Avenue driveways with the majority of the Cedar Avenue activity at one one driveway so it is a sort of self-p policing you you
have to make sure that you're coming in and getting a position that works with your left side right side um fueling tank on your vehicle um and because the volumes on Elizabeth Avenue aren't that high it's the the people leaving are able to make the left out so I don't see
that as a as a problem or an issue um and I also don't think that we're looking at um problems with the on-site circulation or the um increase in activity that would lead to um queuing at the driveways or queuing on site
because what happens and I think it was Tyler who said this if the site's busy or perceived to be busy people bypass it and go elsewhere i know myself I just I don't like to go to gas stations when the tanker's there um but the um this
the organization of the site is going to be improved and I know we've got a little bit of homework to do on the layout but when you go to the site now there's easily up to 20 vehicles parked on Cedar and on the site throughout the
site they're stacked um and and certainly it's a different operation because they're not parking to go in and make a a purchase they're stored there before and after service um but the there's parking on Cedar associated with
the existing service activity there's parking even sometimes on the sidewalk on Cedar Avenue the vehicles are stacked up and and stored at the point or the southern portion of the site um they're up and around the building and so all of
that activity or parking um that's occurring now will be eliminated but the the way those vehicles are stacked and stored on the site now still do allow for the tanker to come in drop the fuel and then leave so we're we're looking to
organize the parking and um and organize the site in a better um situation and a more conventional situation than exists today um from my position on the parking
the ordinance is a little bit um um I'll say overconervative in that one space per fueling position is required but to me those are the parking positions at the pumps because why would anybody need a parking space if they're
at the pumps they're those so from my position the I believe it was 17 Marcus said 18 i'm not exactly sure on the math which would be the the requirement but if it is um 18 I would reduce that by
four because the parking requirement for the fueling positions is the fueling positions themselves um now we talked about Cedar and that there is parking on Cedar permitted and the existing use is taking advantage of that um I don't know
that we're going to see many people coming just for the convenience store but they would be allowed to to park on Cedar and with the pedestrian connection and cleaning up the site I don't find that to be a problem um from a traffic perspective it may be a negative from a
neighborhood perspective but I would again say that there there are cars parked there and we're also closing one of the two driveways that exist on Cedar so that does provide for additional on street parking if it's needed um I do agree with some of the comments uh that
have been uh made throughout the engineering testimony about the uh the tanker coming in and potentially obstructing the um some of the parking that is proposed uh facing Cedar uh I would agree with what Manny had
testified earlier is and you see it when you go to smaller gas stations but you also see it when when at larger stations that uh fueling positions are routinely coned off um some of those parking spaces might be coned off if we stick with the plan that is before the board
with the six spaces facing Cedar i would agree that when the tanker comes um that maybe those first two spaces would also be coned off and and wouldn't be used um but as I said the the customer often perceives a a busy site as less inviting
so when the tanker is at the site three times a week it's probably midday when the volume of activity at the site isn't quite as high um and also just to to continue on the number of the parking spaces it would say somewhere in the
neighborhood of about 12 might be um appropriate for the smaller type of um convenience store so again we've got a uh some homework to do on the site plan to get the parking and I know the board's asked for the circulation
exhibits um but from my perspective this is not a high generating site i do believe there's capacity um not just at in terms of the driveway intersection capacity but in terms of the overall circulation on the site um to
accommodate the additional volume that we're looking at which is a projection based on highway locations uh probably a little bit higher volume than we would actually see if the convenience store was um permitted at this location
um I don't have I just wanted to make sure there was nothing well again I I guess I have a similar question than before so Miss Dolan said they have homework to do does that mean there's going to be another change in
the layout or or more exhibits i I guess I guess I'm asking that question i'm not sure if we should be asking you questions right now because what what site plan are you speaking to well I try to keep my my comments tailored towards the plan that's before you but what I
heard from u from you and your the engineer and uh some of the board members is that um they want to see the truck and vehicle circulation exhibits so that's definitely bringing us back um and I also wondered whether you were going to hear me testify tonight because
there's been so much dialogue on the layout um and a request for additional information most specifically being the vehicle turning templates well the next time we can hear your reaction to what changes might have been made exactly
uh anybody again have any questions i think I'll save mine for next time okay and then that's when we can uh we're not going to start another witness tonight so let's uh figure out another date
get my calendar the next available date is June 5th there's something on the agendas every every uh time we'll have we'll have more picture we'll have more
pictures and drawings to look at when you come back what we'll do is we'll make the revisions to to the plan that to the plan that was submitted originally we won't we'll walk away from exhibit A1 so that you get more parking
because that seems to be the the feeling as to the board would prefer to see more parking as opposed to less with more landscaping so that's what we'll go from and we'll provide the turning templates and and everything else now if maybe
another space had to be eliminated we'll show that as well okay again we need Is the date okay yeah the date's fine all your professionals can make that date june 5th if not June 19th is open
yeah you guys yeah June 5 is fine thank you okay so this matter will be carried to June 5th at 7:30 p.m in this building uh 475 Deont Lane uh no further notice is needed
and if there's no further business we'll entertain a motion to adjourn so move second i'll second