We are recording >> and we're going to put a >> Oh, yeah. >> He said he didn't get that. I got the other one. >> The other Okay, I'm going to we'll open the
meeting at 5:29 and uh we'll get underway here. Uh I have a uh >> we got a minutes to the meeting tomorrow any questions or anything like that
about the minute? Take a motion to approve if you want. >> I'll make a motion we approve it. >> Second. Somebody >> David second. >> Absolutely. >> Okay. Um,
okay. We have some guests here, but I think this could run into a little bit of time. So, we're going to run through with Gail Associates and she's gonna uh give us her update and then we will
go from there and we got all the time you need. >> Y >> Okay. Okay. Jackie, are you on? >> I am on. Can everybody hear me? >> Yes. >> Great. Great. I appreciate again this is Jackie Mars with Gail Associates. Um I
appreciate the flexibility this evening as we don't have um a whole lot to update the commission on this evening. Um but the ongoing project that Gail has with the airport is the environmental
uh review for upcoming projects and that consisted of an instruction study which we've reviewed at a previous meeting as well as um an environmental document called the categorical exclusion which
effectively reviews um proposed upcoming projects for any potential um environmental impact. So the instruction study report has now um been reviewed by the FAA and Mass.
Gail is working on addressing those comments and um making any appropriate changes. really everything was very very minor uh in nature and we'll provide the airport um
responded by a comment as well as a final version of that obstruction report. Um the environmental document the drafted uh categorical exclusion has been uh provided to Jim and Isabelle for
review. It doesn't require a commission vote. It's, you know, information that has been reviewed with the commission has approved on the project that are going into this. And so, uh, provided that to Jim and Isabelle and hopefully
we'll schedule a call, uh, sometime next week to answer their questions and then make any revisions before submitting that document over to the FAA. That's on the uh which part of that
obstruction? >> So the the the document the environmental document the war exclusion document um that I sent over this afternoon uh to to both of you. You may not have seen it yet, >> right? >> Um but but I'll have I'll go over that
with both of you next week, Jim and Isabelle, and um answer any questions that that you have. It's really it's very straightforward. It's the two clearing pro um the tree clearing project that we've discussed um you know at length at this point um the fencing
project that we've again discussed at length the commission has reviewed all those plans and and accepted them um and then uh the easement project that we'll discuss in just a minute so those are all being reviewed for any environmental
impacts and when you open up the document you'll see it's effectively it is a list with uh some paragraphs um explaining the reasoning for those answers and then it is some attachments
just uh figures and things on backup documentation that that might be needed from the FAA. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> Um Okay. And so the other um item that I wanted to talk about tonight is um and I
know Jim and Isabelle have talked to you um about this at length, I know we're waiting on the city to confirm local share funding uh for the navigation easement acquisition project. Um, and for anyone in the room who may not be
familiar, an navigation easement is an airspace easement that gives the airport the rights to go onto private property and remove trees that might be penetrating the approach surfaces and creating a safety hazard. So when you
have instructions off airport property, uh FAA requires in order to you know pay for um pay with federal dollars to take those trees down, FA requires that the airport have perpetual rights to not only remove the trees but then go back
and maintain those areas in perpetuity. So that's why, you know, you pursue when you're going for FAA funding, you pursue an airspace easement uh rather than just a true clearing agreement with that property owner. Um so the next steps for
this would be if um if the city agrees that uh the funding is available at the local level, I think it's important to schedule a meeting uh between yourself, Isabelle, uh Jim, Representative representative from Gail
uh likely Matt um maybe myself also um the you know city finance and the mayor just uh due to the nature of the project it's really important to discuss the project details the timeline certain challenges uh that might come up before
scoping the project just because you know you're not dealing with on airport pro you know you're not dealing with on airport land that the airport has control over you're dealing with private property owners. So, we want to make sure that everyone is well informed of what is going on and um you know any
sort of any sort of implications and just communicate all of that to everyone. Um so just wanted to make sure that um you know just give you that update and you know let you know that we are here to assist in any way that you
need um you know answer any questions again that you have about um ements airspace ements and what those projects might look like. >> Okay. Now, is the uh this is is this going to be at the 5%
level that the city's going to be obligated at 2 and a half? So the um depending on the airport at this at this point in time uh FAA confirms that projects in fiscal year
2026 will receive 2 and 12% uh sorry will receive 95% uh federal funding requiring 2% local share. I'm not sure what will happen with projects beyond that. And in order to uh apply for a
grant application, you have to have the easements. Um you have to have property rights in hand to apply for the grant funding. Now the 2026 grant application deadline is uh is
it April of of 2026. We may be able to request a little bit of an extension, but realistically what that project entails is first of all reaching out to property owners, doing a title search to make sure that
that property owner actually has rights to negotiate um and fair market value for an easement. you have a surveyor that has to go up and actually survey the boundaries of the property so that when you're developing those e the easement date language and know that you
have the leaps and bounds um you know that are correct and legal uh you have to have a first of all an appraiser go out to assess the fair market value of the the easement because it's not something you know that the airport that
they buy from the property owner and you want to make sure that the property owner is is receiving that fair market value. So you have an appraisal done um and then that appraisal is actually reviewed independently by a third party just to make sure that again that the
price is fair and then you know you know of course coordinate all those things happening and then to negotiate with the property owners on the air force behalf uh prepare all of the closing documentation anything that's needed. So all of those things you know
is being maintained. These projects in an ideal world um you know you're you're looking at probably a minimum of 8 months I would say to to really get those get those routines in hand if
everything goes perfectly smoothly. um you know so so again I'm not certain at this point given the amount of time now that's gone by that it's realistic to get a get those easements in hand in
time to submit a grant application for this for the spring of 2026 that being said the airport does still have um the bipartisan infrastructure law uh BIL funding available.
There are I think uh I I reached out to FA. You have about $255,000 left in the money that has not been spent yet. And that money is guaranteed at that 95% share regardless of the
fiscal year. So there there may be um you know there there may be some some room to work with that money as well but at this point I'm not certain that the project will receive the whole project will receive the 95% federal funding.
There may be a portion of it where the local share will be 5% again just because of the timing of everything. >> Okay sounds good. Okay. And um on that update that I that I had sent to to both
of you, I I know it seems like the email for some reason didn't contour. So I can send um I can send another uh I can send it another way. I'll send you a link um using my one drive account instead so
that you can see it. But as part of that um update, it does have a breakdown of the estimated cost and it has a breakdown of what the cost would be to the local share at 2 and a half% and the local share at 5%. And likely at this
point, you're probably looking at falling somewhere in the middle of of that number. Uh just depending on how you know how much the cost of everything and all that. >> Yeah. So, let me let me send you let me send
you this update again with the summary so that so that you actually have the funding breakdown right in front of you and uh and then we can kind of go from there. I I expect you know Isabelle and Jim that you and the three of us will talk next week anyway about the environmental project. We can kind of
talk a little bit more detail about this stuff too. >> Okay, that sounds good. We'll look forward to looking at it again. I think I got it somewhere, but >> you do. Okay. Okay. I'll send it again. >> I'll send it um I'll send it again right
now because I know sometimes I just attached a PDF. So, I think sometimes that can get caught up in span stuff like that. So, I'll just send it this way as well so you so I know you have it. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Thanks. >> You're welcome. Um, is there anything
that you're um missing from Gail that you that you need from me or that I can help address at all? >> Um, I'm good right now. >> Okay. Okay. >> All right. Well, if um if there are no
further questions, um I will I will hop I will hop off. And again, I appreciate the flexibility tonight. I want to wish everybody, you know, happy holidays and hope that, you know, everything um you have a great time with your families and all that over over the holiday season.
>> Yeah. And same to you. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. Okay. Have a great night, everybody. >> You too. >> Okay. >> Okay. Take care. Byebye. Um, do you want to cover the new business with these guys first or you want to go
through your stuff? Your >> stuff's pretty quick. If I can just bang it out quickly. Uh, so the guard house, I don't have those today. The system was doing an update. Um, when I get those, I'll send it to you as soon as I can.
The fuel gallons, it's too early in the month to get that. I'll probably get it um Friday or Monday of this week. The the few >> Oh, for what? For from November. >> Yeah. And then I'll have to send that to you, too. Yeah. It's too early in the month. She's usually like 56.
Um the only expenditures we have that go against our utility bill, Temples and Light and Water, $668.17 for this month. And um a halfner's bill for heating oil. >> Yeah. Um, I actually have to pay this.
This is not paid yet. That's to fill the tank. And the um the windsaw cost uh they sent us for free. It was $165. That's it. So, I'll get those things to you as soon as >> Would you say that was was $165?
>> $165.9 for the three winds. Now that's the type two, right? >> Yes. Yeah. >> Is this mine or is it >> It's in the closet. 36 by 12 size two durable orange nylon riptock.
>> FAA compliant. >> Yeah. >> Um >> yeah, the other one uh didn't last very long. Anyway, that's uh that's all I have. >> I just wanted to make sure we had one so that we can >> Yeah. You put it down in the shed down
down down the storage there. >> Okay. And I'll um >> I found that right away when I went down and >> Yeah. I was going to ask Owen for one as well because it's got the mask on. >> Yeah. >> See what he says. >> So the weather takes these things out. Is that what happened? >> That's what happened.
>> The wind the wind here was unbelievable. And it just shredded it. >> Where's it flying up adjacent? >> The wind sock >> right here. That wood lighted wind sock. But when you looked at the material, it was all um faded from the sun. So it
didn't look and it was only a year old. Year and a half old. So >> yeah, it didn't look like it was very rugged. >> It didn't look rugged at all. Um >> Yeah, >> I had a picture of of it. >> Was it American made? >> Good question.
>> I only see the ads for the flag. It was uh after >> made in uh Brainer, Minnesota. >> Hybrid, >> but it was like a more of a cloth thing and it it just sunbaked >> and it just you could
I mean it literally was shredded. >> Yeah. >> And this one here is a 36 in diameter with 12 ft long. >> Wow. >> The bigger one's type two. And uh relatively easy to change. check about an hour and a half. But uh the one that
the states sent us is a lot heavier. It's more plastic and I think it'll stand up a lot better. We'll see. Jim, I'd like to add to the minutes uh when I spoke to this about about the pusher plow that I purchased for the use of the
airport to make sure that I just want to put it on the minutes that that's my plow that I'm not care for loan. >> And it works great. It does everything that they said it was quick to do. So, it's a asset to do. >> What do you need to push it?
>> Loader. A load. It attaches to I would have liked to have got the quick connect, but that was another $6,000 more. So, >> the two sides so you're not losing the snow out the sides. And >> you see all the parking lots. It's a wonderful It's a great add-on to that machine. How wide?
>> 12 ft. 12T. the uh I stopped by Brookside. They had one >> with a quick connect on it for John Deere >> and it was 2500 bucks. >> Really? >> But it had a where they ran into a
>> post something >> and uh and uh the cuz it's a rubber >> Yeah. It's a very thick rubber rubber. It's giant but it's got a got a uh plate that holds it in place. Yep.
>> And that had a perfect curve in it >> and so >> yeah, the high tie and low for a decent one that wasn't all ganged up and I found a decent one downable. >> It's a it's a really nice, you know, add-on to the machine. But >> you know, quick connect would make life
easier, but it's not horrible with the chains in it in the in the connectors to make it work. So, it worked fine last night. Had no issues with it. >> That's great. Okay, very good. Um, that thing works, huh?
>> Oh, and MIT one. Let me put this MIT was here one, two, three, four, five, six, seven times in November. >> Yeah. You got each team? >> Yeah. I don't know the team name, but I know that there are different teams
>> cuz ask ask >> Yeah, there's there's one that's been working on uh methane detection and then there's one that's working on intercepting the aircraft.
Uh, and then there's another one that's And the guys that were here today, I'm not sure exactly. They were looking on the little ones, the real small ones, but uh, >> it was a small one. Yeah. >> Yeah. Okay. Um,
anybody got anything else before we dive into what you guys have? >> Our guest, >> huh? our guest, >> our guest speakers. Um, can you guys before you leave, I just need some
information on backp into a your organization. So, if you call me, it comes up. I get like four or five spam calls a day on my cell phone if I don't answer them once I get
unless I get they come up as somebody I know, right? I'd rather talk to you than >> but uh feel free to jump in here and >> go. I guess we'll introduce ourselves first.
>> My name is Adam Tajin. Uh just want to say thank you so much for allowing us to come speak here today. Isabelle, thank you for picking up my phone call. It was amazing. Um this is really an honor and very excited to introduce our project to you guys. um longtime native central
mass. Uh been doing aerrow modeling for over 25 years now. Uh in case you don't know what aeromoding is, this is what it is. Uh we take full scale scale, we scale down full size aircraft and we make them fly just like the real ones and they're powered with various things
including turbine uh jet engines. So we'll dive into more of that later on. But um this is my friend Joel Rose. >> Hi. >> Yeah, thanks. Um, so I've been flying for 40 years. Uh, first started with helicopters and then most lately in the
last uh 3 and a half four years flying fixed wing. Now I fly jets. So I brought this turbine powered helicopter of mine as well as that jet. Um, and yeah, I fly at five different clubs currently both at Plum Island. I fly at uh Chrome
Island and the Wus Flyers in Sterling. uh flying inland helmet crew and most recently we're flying at Woodstock airport in Connecticut. Um and yeah, we are uh so why why are we here today? Um
we are interested in forming a club uh where we could make use of your paved runaway for the high performance aircraft that we fly. Uh you know some of these can fly off the grass but it's a much better experience for us when we fly off of pavement. So when we fly at plum for instance um or Woodstock it's
with the jets it's amazing it's just the best experience that we could have. So um we were on the lookout for a location where we could uh form small club and have access to a facility like yours. So yes, so really yeah, we want to we want
to take our collective experience, our passion and our model and put it together and um you know have a venue such as gardener to go ahead and >> um so we've been talking about um you know what the you know how we want to go
do that. uh with your permission, we would go ahead and charter an AMA club that would make it an official club uh which would have us follow academy model aeronomics rules as well as FAA regulations and so forth. Uh we're all
seasoned so we're well familiar with FAA regulations as well as other rules that govern the hobby so we're not newcomers to the hobby in any way. Um but we we would use that community based organization to form the framework for the club that we would uh make here. And
um you know the intention is that um you know we would have a great place to fly and there' be a benefit to Gartner airport for having us as well because we would be a source of revenue for you would be looking to you know pay the airport for the privilege of flying here
as well as um rent in hanger space. We uh can certainly put space to use. So if we uh that way a source of money we're interested as a community organization and doing having outreach events having fun for instance where they're open up to the public the community at large can
come other monitors can come uh those are you know revenue generating and so it's another way for us to provide some money back to the airport as well. usually on the weekends. >> Usually they'd be on the weekends. Um some of the larger events might be a Friday, Saturday, Sunday. The timing is
not super important, but historically they're they're weekends. >> And you mentioned you have insurance. The insurance covers covers you like an umbrella. >> We get through the academy model that is here to help us.
So, see if there's anything else. >> How fast do they go? >> Well, the jets are they can hit up 200 miles an hour and we're not Yeah, we don't exclude that. That's that's their limit. It's the limit that we have with the with the Academy of Model
Aeronautics. So, we we do that. The helicopters of course fly a lot more slowly. Uh you know, these actually our goal with the scale helicopters is to fly them like the full size. So if we're doing a good job, they mimic the flight patterns that a full size would do. So
it's generally slow, gentle flight. And the hobby, you know, I don't know how familiar everyone is with the air hobby, but it spans, you know, pre-built kits that you can get, take out of the box, and fly to scratchuilt machines where
the uh person is developing all the parts and pieces that they need. And there's also kits that are built. It's everything in between. So, it's been an amazing hobby for us to get to exercise all our technical knowhow, the engineers in fact inspire some of us to become
engineers. There's a whole STEM tie in with a modeling that is great where you know we always look for kids to uh get interested in model aviation for them as a hobby and it also encourages them to do uh look at technical careers and you
know grow people grow their technical skill and make them more adept at you know doing practical things in the world that's um it's rich and so you know those of us who've been in for a while you know we um have tremendous amount of skills
um building, flying, teaching, using equipment, the actual you know piloting itself and those are things that we get to share when we're in a club environment. So yeah um happy to answer any questions you have but basically yeah we're very much interested in um
making use of your runway and the facilities here. So >> so for instance that airplane what's your um what's your ground roll ground roll? So we're 3,000 ft long. What would the ground roll be on a >> turbo?
>> Yeah, it's comfortable with about 300 ft to take off and it can do a little bit less, but 300 is exactly >> how high most of that stuff. I'm only going to run it now because I I believe most of you have had experience here. I
know we have. The last time >> she she hasn't been here. I've been here when they used to come for the weekend. >> So, this is all about right now. >> This is all three years. I think you were around here. >> You were here in 2022 with Yes. Yeah.
Yeah. When I when I came at that time. So, in any event, I'm uh Joe, did you introduce your name at the beginning? >> My name I didn't get your name. >> He introduced Joe is one of our associate
from the last time we were here. Uh I'm I'm uh for anybody that doesn't know me, my name is Andy Arjeno. I'm on the executive board for the economy at Weser and Indiana. There's 11 of me around the country and I'm from so I keep getting
reelected every year. In fact, I try to get one of these young guys to take over but that just doesn't happen. They >> still does it better than so so of the 11 uh we deal with international issues. I'm on most of the committees. I work
directly with the FAA, risk assessments, all that kind of good stuff. So if you need help in those areas, we know where aviation is. I I can tell you this much in terms of the FAA. When I last saw you in 20, we were just starting the construction and people were happy with
the idea that in addition to having a club here, which is kind of nice if you can incorporate them with the drones. The nice part about that is it gives extra people to help with the responsibilities we need when we're flying to meet our safety requirements.
Every one of our pilots that flies an aircraft flies with a spotter. Someone's next to a guy like this has a radio. He's in communication with the pilots. airport we typically now the big change from when we talked and we didn't get back to
you at the time because there was construction it got delayed and then finally it picked up by the time you did that our activities in New England which I kind of head up besides my national duties jumped from a few events a year at airports to the last two years we've
been averaging 12 events uh I think it was 12 uh 2024 this year was 10 events. So that's almost every weekend. And there were events at municipal and regional at small airports where we go in and we set
up. We also have a partner uh some of these uh Rich Little who's an airline >> fundraising organizations that host the events. >> He raises >> gain access to people like you and and rent the place. if we wanted to do a larger event like we used to do here years back and that's what our interest
was in to help raise money and in those years I mean I I first events I did were in 2002 three four we did a hook fest here so uh it was I was driving him at night now this time so it was a little bit different than me looking around but
I haven't seen the new runway yet I'm excited about that but what we're looking for is to help them to get them in and integrate them in if they can possibly have time here with a window to be able to fly because we see them as a good resource. But what we had talked
about at that time early on and people were in favor of it is doing some comm community events where we draw in a lot of people. At one time this airport brought in 10,000 people when we did a uh turbine
meet over here parking lot. Yeah, >> I can tell you right now that the events that we're we're running now, we we do them at Plum Island Airport. We do them at Selfbridgeidge Municipal Airport. We do them at uh >> at Logan Logan. We do a STEM activity
there. Rochester at the Sky Haven airport, Mount Washington at the airport there. We went uh we just this was a big year for us. We did Thunder uh over New Hampshire. We flew with the Blue Angels. We had actually designated 28 minutes of
flight line. I mean, the top pilots in the country don't get that. So, we were excited. It was been 50 years. Uh, 50 years I'm trying to get us back in. I'm from Rhode Island, so I'm trying to get us back in at the air
show. We had the >> I have a few questions. Okay. >> Yeah. Go ahead. >> You're moving right along. >> She left off. She left off with a good one, too. >> How high. What's the name of the organization? You used to come here in the summer at least once a year >> with Jeff Russell.
>> What was they called? What was their organization name? >> Well, that was the Academy of Model Aeronautics. That was uh Jeff came here and u Mike he was the FAA. U Jack Buckley was >> So this is this is a different organization than the one that's in the
habit of coming here like once a year for >> I think this one. I don't >> wasn't the AMA, right? >> It was the AMA. >> AMA. So the AMA here maybe it clarifies it the AMA is like a parent organization like the FAA these guys are >> American modelers association >> academy
>> these gentlemen myself we represent individual clubs which are like >> not that it matters but I've been building models since I was a >> 10. Yeah >> through the age of 48. >> How old are you now? >> 75.
>> 49. At age 48 I decided to get a real airplane. But anyway, that's neither here nor there. Pattern airplanes. >> One of the fancy stuff that you guys do. >> How many times a year might you come here with your organization to uh fill this airport up with all of your
enthusiasts and flyers? >> But the point is we usually start off maybe one event here to try to guess see how things work out. >> How often do you show up at Plum Island, for example? >> Well, well, most of our clubs do one or two or three events a year. If it's do
if the event is an outreach event to reach the public, it's different than an inreach when you're working with your >> So there might be a couple two three events here in gardener if we were to >> and you might even want to have an event here that goes beyond what we typically
did in the past. In the past, our events I consider them inreach events because we're benefiting members. We brought our members in and the public came in to watch what they did. So we engage them in all our latest aircraft, the big jets that we >> So you're saying that there might if we
get in bed with you, there might be two events a year. >> Yeah, we can also bring in >> I think he's missing the point. >> Full scale. We we can bring in full scale. So we we have there's two separate things. So let me take it. So there's um our goal, Adam and I are
trying to get permission to fly here and build a club and run out of gardener and that is separate from any events >> as a club. >> Um we are interested in running events open to the public open other modelers
that they can join and participate whether or not it's a jet fly in or it's helicopters or it's regular aircraft. Now, historically, Gardner has hosted the Jets over Gardener Jet event, which was huge, and Indie is talking about that. We're also interested in putting on such an event at some point. We have
to get established first, assuming we got permission to operate here, to have a club and make a presence, which is really the first call to action that has to happen. And if we do then it gives us the opportunity to form the club and host such an event and actually put that
on because I wouldn't be suggesting that we just host an event with no presence >> even when they do a local event they go through the academy so all the insurance all the criteria all the all the look at the site in fact we go to the site we can convert this site into a free site a free site is an FAA recognized
identification area which means if we convert that and and put it into a space out there. They won't require remote ID modules. If someone were to come here now, they'd have to broadcast out a registration number of off their aircraft. The other thing it does is it
opens the window up for them to fly to the levels that people can fly up. So why do people join the AMA and not some other organization? Because we can fly higher. We're able to self get we get NOTMS. We go directly to the FAA within 20 minutes. We have a NOTM. We'd go up
to 2,000 feet and and we'd go up to class ES bases without anything up to class and 1200. We also could fly higher faster and and so they joined us for all that she >> asked about
ADSB. Uh yeah, we don't no these don't have it but anybody so I don't know if I've had my question answered yet. How how many events might there be in Gardener Massachusetts at this airport if we were to get involved with you guys? And
>> okay, if you're talking about if you're talking about the events like we ran in the past, we incorporate certainly the club, the club might set the direction they want to go in or they may come to me, which many clubs do, and say we'd like to have a district event. We want to bring in more. We want it marketed in
a different fashion and that's what we would do. So if you ask the typically it's a couple of events, >> you know, we we fly normal airplanes. this gentleman I do and it's a pain in the ass trying to land and take off at the airport when one of these events is
going on. >> Talk about safety. >> I'm sort of curious as to howafy >> how often are we going to have you know some of these jets flying little craft flying at this airport if we were to >> get in bed with you.
>> Well, I I don't know. That's up to you. You're the ones that are turning around and saying to us we're willing to allow our club to come in here. we would like to give you x amount of time. When we go to the airports that we go to now, like I said, we're doing 12 a year, we're loaded, but when we go there, we fly
under their conditions, but most of the time before we're even there, decisions are made. Uh we're going to have a flight time, it's going to be from this time in the morning to that time. If any full scale aircraft come in, we work with the flight boss. We have radios. We know you're there. If you came in, we could bring our airplanes down in two
minutes beyond the rock and away. So, if you looked at any of our videos from our events at Beverly, at any at at Con at any of the airports, >> I've tried to go out and come into I I don't seem to forget your question, but >> hold on a second. >> For example, Plum Island.
>> I've been in there more than one time where massive events there sometimes and they operate flights cool out of there. There's a lot of air traffic coming. >> They're first and foremost their primary rule. Um, I just got invited to become a member there. They have a limited membership which is something also you
could do is we >> the Plum Island model airplane association >> correct plum island uh model aircraft association. >> So they have certain members that are qualified and trained to use the radios to have fire extinguishers and to have a spotter.
>> So I don't know personally how busy this airport is whether you guys have >> not very busy >> constant trafficy >> but we pretend there's always somebody going to be on final approach. We always pretend there's going to be whether they call it or not. Could be a cup with no electronics in it. We want to have
spotters out there that'll visually maintain separation. And then we also want to have a radio on board. So >> every plane has a spotter when they're flying. >> Spot comes up and spots. >> If we're at one of our own fields, just like you probably used to fly a grass
field somewhere, a baseball field, nobody's watching. >> Let me introduce this. So as far as I'm concerned, Adam's concerned. If we got permission to fly, we would host we would get started with one event for the year just to try out. That's all we want. >> And you guys would have well noticed well in advance and obviously in
collaboration to figure out what would work best for you as well. >> So we don't want to get the airport. We want to see if it works and it expanded if it made sense to do that. I'm
thinking that decision should be there. If they're looking for revenue, a good revenue stream, then you might want to think about the fact that uh a district sponsored event is going to bring them in more revenue than a club event. So,
so it depends where you people want to go as to where you would like to see us. And so, we'll easily we can easily accommodate the club of club independent events or or a jet meet only. But if you want to do what we talked about in 2022
that we didn't get to, if you want a broader event that brings the mayor down here that draws in a large audience outside just to bring some additional revenue in. I mean typically we get at the smaller airports con for example
5,000 people. The larger airports where we run two-day events we can bring in as many as 15,000. When we did Peace Air Force Base for the first time we're talking 80,000 people were there. We set up. >> We weren't the drawer.
>> Can I have a word in real quick? >> Al Costito here. New member. Um I flown in here with Mike and what was his guy's name? >> Jeff. >> Jeff. I have them names in my phone. Matter of fact, I have a t-shirt that
they gave me. I was in these events. I never had a problem flying in here during those events. They always stopped everything for me and anybody else that flew in here. I've gone to Plum Island and been with those actually I think it was Willamantic Connecticut
if I'm not mistaken. They had a similar small event that come slow down. All right, slow down. It's all right. It's not a race. >> We're going to take steps here. All right. Baby steps here. I'm I'm more than happy to see you guys come here
because I think it's a great thing. All right. And start a little event like Mike and Jeff had that brought in some good stuff. If things get bigger, great. If it, you know, can't handle it, that's one thing. I mean, >> I'm just one voice here. But I think what you guys are trying to do here, you
got to start somewhere and you want to start here. I think it's positive. I too think it's a good idea. >> And we're quiet and we're not opposed to a little revenue, aren't you? >> We'd like to help. I think a crawl uh you know like walk
run. We don't know how it could be, but we don't want to do anything that's detrimental to a couple of small incidents here where a couple of the planes went into the ground. There was no problem. They put the flames out. There was no problem. >> It happens. And I'm supposed to fly into
physics. >> And you know those are things we're well equipped to deal with. We have our own CO2 extinguishers. We would keep them here as well. So you have the appropriate firefighting equipment. We have spotters. We have trained pilots. We also have proficiency program
too. The >> people in your your world are just like us licensed pilots with our airplanes. I see the machines that they drive. When a guy comes in with a you know Peter build track the trailer with a really nice trailer and he's got all kinds of jets
in there and some airliners on the walls. He's not a he's not just an amateur. He's He's in for the long haul. He's got a lot of money tied up for that. So, I don't think you guys are a joke. I think you guys are all right. I just want to say that. So, I'm done.
>> Let's jo our primary agenda is find a great place to fly. We do want to help the airport that we, you know, fly at because that's a good symbiotic relationship, right? you know, we want to be here and we want you to want us to be here and make that
a, you know, a mutually beneficial arrangement. That's all. Um, there's a lot of opportunity for growing what we do. It can go in lots of different ways. Um, I've done lots of events with Andy and Letta. It's great. Um, I'm of the opinion if we were to get approved to
start, we build a club and then we could consider planning an event when it made sense for the airport to have that sort of activity here. and we'd go off and do it. You know, uh it wouldn't be random. >> Are there are there members of your club right now that >> So, this club doesn't yet exist.
>> This club does not exist. So, you don't have a group that you're planning to >> um we have uh five people that would be interested immediately in working with us to form a club. We are interested. We would limit it to 10 people for the
first year total and see what it's like just so that um you know, nobody gets committed to something that they don't like for you. We don't want to be too deep. And if it didn't work for us, we don't want to be too deep. So >> keep it manageable for us. So it would
literally require Adam and I form uh the charter club and there's guidelines for doing that. We go off and do our local approvals that we need. Roughly speaking, you try to keep the the aircraft at or below 2,000 2,000 ft.
>> Yes. >> How about how about later to the west and to the east? How about that? >> It's always Yeah, it's always visual line of sight and it's subject to really the local airspace on the ground here. >> So, we would likely have some sort of
waiver. We're limited to 400 ft. Correct. Right. >> Right now we're stopping. >> We have to establish if we're going to set we the best thing to do is for them to set up a free of sight. That means it won't be an oval lower circle. It will
be a polygon that will represent a virtual fence of the area they're going to have to fly in. And once that's established, that's where they're going to be able to operate because they don't want to have to put most of them don't want to have to buy modules. You don't want to have to be working under another
set of rules that you're flying under when you're flying with other modules. So that's what we do at at most of the airports around. We're flying under shape to however you like. >> Take look at a satellite view with this >> Karen's house over there. You don't want to fly over it. We make a little U
around it. Don't fly nearly answer your question. Depends on the aircraft. I'm flying my jet. I may go out um it could be 1,000 ft laterally, right? uh when I find a helicopter, I'm within, you know, five six hundred feet
um radius. So, it depends on the flight envelope of the aircraft. If I can't see it, I can't control it. >> Look at the limitations, the box itself. If he wants to go up 500, somebody else wants to go 800, we've got 2,000, that's fine. So, look at it as a box, a control
air, a controlled area, it's the free site. That's the place they have to stay. The pilots adjust to that when they're flying. If they're flying smaller aircraft where they cut corners, they're going to be in close up. They sometimes don't mix well with the larger aircraft who look to get right to the
extreme points and somebody's coming in. >> From your point of view, this nice little airport has pretty much >> Yeah. >> no congestion other than maybe a little bit to the north here. >> We have a control flight line, too. We don't break a 180 plane on the city. We
keep it because we're not going to be buzzing the tower, so to speak, you know. Are we voting on this subject today or something? Is that how we're doing? >> I don't know if we have to. Do we? Or I don't know. What do you think? >> Talk about it at the >> I think we uh
>> I I've been always dead for it. I mean, when you guys were here for the weekend, they store the plane hang around my plane. I've got I've got pictures of 20 of them back around on my airplane so they didn't take them apart
several times and uh that they were here doing it. I think that the uh the biggest thing is to get uh people have to know the rules in order to that they're going to fly by. If if
David was coming in, I expect to see him, you know, he's going to fly a downwind base and fly them. He's going to make radio calls when he can and all that. Anybody who comes in is going to fly that way. So that once you see them,
you can if you if they are, you know, coming in at a specific time. I know there was uh when they were flying before they used up like 10 to noon and you if you were flying in to come to the event they all knew they had to be here before 10:00 in the morning.
>> That's and then only go so far. >> Yeah. But you can state that it's going to be closed for that period if you need to but you're always open for emergency. We never really closed. I don't know how Kenny
>> put the notm out. I don't know how that was put out >> 7711 form I believe that's you can get that done but still we wouldn't want to do that if it's not that >> if we don't have to but I mean for the bigger events you can see we have to do that >> you just mirror
>> it benefits us get the extra insurance when we >> I mean if you've ever been to Sun and Fun or Ashku >> you have very specific rules and ain't nothing else going on I'm all for this.
>> I'm for it. I think you guys I think we're going to be just fine. >> I think it's going to be good. And you guys are going to be back to work. So everybody all the flying that they're doing to come under our safety.
>> I'm very our booklet was uh started back in 1936. We flew under the advisory circular 198 1982. Since then when the drones came into play starting in 2008 we had to have every guideline that we
have. Some people say oh it's just guidelines. No it's not because when FAA got involved and they went through the integration safe integration of national airspace they had three different uh reauthorizations of that act. Each time they do that they review our safety
programming. So our safety programming is always getting upgraded and approved by them. Anybody that joins the AMA, any of these fellas here, they agree to operate under those conditions. If they don't, we have a process, a grievance process and everything else because we don't want to lose all these wonderful
airports and flying sites that we have on public commercial and private property. And the way we do that is to adhere to our safety programming and it's extensive. And that's how we're able to fly larger airplanes, turbine airplanes that nobody else can because we've written the safety programming.
even BDLs flying beyond visual line of sight is now being worked on at the academy uh because we know that's coming. The sensory stuff we can put on these aircraft now just like the ones they put in cars. They are going to avoid any conflicts. They they I mean uh
uh it's going to change what we do here. >> It's actually easier with airplanes than it is with cars. But um yeah and it's uh there's a lot of talk around it >> to address you know your concern starting small keeping it small having
you know controls in place we're going to have a whole charter club set of rules including like you know we're even thinking ID tags with lanyard so that we know who's there we can identify them quickly is paramount so that you know we know the flow of this place and we can teach the new people who come in and we
we everyone's on the same page is the most important what you have these guys, do you have any houses that are close by that when we've had former meetings have complained because that's usually where we get ourselves in trouble. We want to know where those hot
spots are so we can design the site so we're furthest away from them and we don't irritate them. Otherwise, this could be very short term. You go over there, you find out you got a a senator over here and somebody else over there and you're out on cold. >> Yeah.
>> So, I don't know. I don't answer. >> Let me ask you a question. >> Yes. >> Other than using the runway, you can form a club. Are you going to have meeting this club? You can sign for meeting.
>> We don't need to. We would have >> So, so you're going to meet somewhere else and then primary use of facility for flying. >> So, you don't need >> it's not required. We could meet anywhere that we >> unless we're afforded the ability to rent the hanger as well, which would be
>> yeah, if we end up getting to rent the hanger, then we probably might do that on the space that we have, but that's certainly not a requirement for us. >> Okay. So, and the flight would be like one day or could be a whole weekend. >> Well, if we were forming a club, we'd
like access any time that we're available to fly. The events are those are are on specific dates of dates for the year, but if we had a club, we're talking about general operation where we could show up with no notice on any day
and fly uh just like anyone with a full size. >> How do the how do the drone people operate here? So, we we understand that. Are they >> They do a notm for everything. They got a blank two blanket ones out right now. I saw one yesterday >> and yeah there there's one that goes
from August to February but we were talking we've been talking because we had one of the instructors came in with a student and they were upset that there was a drones flying around. >> We have the road coming in here. We have the other side, the east side of the
road is we have some of the organizations come in and they're doing low-level stuff, but we do restrict them to 400 ft because you can get the ultral lights and stuff down to 800 and you can the
pattern altitude is 1,000 ft above the ground and everybody's got to play by the right rules here in the right spot. There's no problem. If they aren't, then we got a problem. And the two approaches here both are
the ceiling is 800 ft. The floor is 800 ft that they can come down to above the airport. So where if they're flying on actual approach, but the uh that's why I have to sit and meld all the rules together and then a note when they're
out flying is probably the best thing to do. But you can do that like you say in 15 20 minutes if that >> to just get lighthouse to pick it up and they post it right away. And uh >> well will they be flying the drone
people in the same location at the site that you fellas are going to be thinking about operating your >> this is where the the problem see I've got people who go the east side there and that's pretty much free range over there but they've been using a little closer to the runway because I have this
trailer and everything and I've got three groups flying all around at the same time and u they were flying >> they're not here every day >> they're not here every Okay. But they during the week they were here a lot. >> So how how would how would this club interface with them and know what times
they come? >> They're from about 9:00 9 to 10:00 till about >> if I have to set up to use the runway out in that area >> that area.
>> Have you guys observed that? Is it too much of a hill? I would. Obviously, you're not going to fly over the ramp. >> Well, or the hangers. >> That's actually not the bad worst place. See, the guys that fly now, they fly this area here from the road this way here.
>> There are some drones out here in the swamp, and there's some more over in here that they've never found. >> I mean, we're primarily if you're over the runway, that's where I look at the that's where everybody mixes, and I get cautious at that. Now, we were flying.
We're using from about here up to this end of the runway before. There is a house just off the pitch here. That's was somebody that was the that's the closest piece of property. And there are a couple of houses out in here. Two of them are commissioners here. They're not
here tonight, but uh and the one guy that donated all this land to the airport lives right there. >> And friendly hopefully. >> Yes. So, they're good neighbors. Okay. but he's a million years old. But uh the the only time we've ever
gotten complaints is on the approach from the north, which is the only GPS approach we have. And that brings him down to about 800 ft. I don't know why the complaint. He's in a relatively new housing development. He has to drive on airport road and he didn't know there
was an airport here. So >> was here well before he got I'm I'm for it. >> I think it's just >> a good idea. >> Aart
and I watching for that. He was good. >> Jim, >> one of the things we'd want to know is what sort of um payment would the
airport need from us to order to have the privilege of flying here. So, >> how much cash would you need? We would have to talk about that. >> Yes. >> Make sure it's feasible for us to
>> 626. >> Yes. >> And then we're also hanging separate. >> I move we close the meeting. Yes, sir.