##VIDEO ID:VJ4rrufdKI8## is that welcome everybody um this is the Board of Health and city of Gardner meeting monthly meeting and it is February no January 27th at 4:30 p.m. meeting is called to order and uh first item is the review the minutes from December 9th 2024 make a motion to approve any discussion the only thing I all in favor to approve the Mee are accepted um yes did everyone who's visiting sign in the sign in sheet so next item on the agenda is um tobacco violation he James FAS Anthony's Package Store um before we begin I want to explain to you why the hearing is taking place um the violation did occur in October I think it was October 20th um and it came to my attention December 3rd or fourth I can't I think December 3rd that um what I understood was that Mr Chris us was aware of the violation but he had to uh travel out of state for a family um medical issue shortly after and kind of just was back put it aside and um you know came back and the 3day suspension was to happen and so um normally if there's a violation you have within s days to appeal the violation um and it was out of compliance based on you know the I felt extenuating circumstances having compassion for that I granted the hearing after it was kind of like in between um messaging between Micah Joan Hamlet from the um tobacco Alliance and myself we were kind of we granted the hearing and then we gathered more information which will be be presented but um found out that the fine actually had already been paid and it so the F we can't do anything about the only thing that we're going to continue with the hearing and we you know here for it but the only thing that is in um what we have any jurisdiction over doing anything about at this point is um the suspension of the sales of tobacco so that's why the hearing is happening so to ask um Joan Hamlet from tobacco the tobacco Alliance to present the information the of what let us here today okay so just for the record I'm Joan Hamlet I'm the director of the Board of Health Tobacco Control Alliance and I am also a gardener tobacco agent and this is Rick sadeli who came with us who is a gardener tobacco agent and he conducted the inspection um so on October 20th we went in conducted the annual um youth access inspection by which we inspected everybody on the same day um all the all 17 retailers um were inspected all in the same day we it resulted in three sales to Miners and one of them was anony liquer so um approximately 11:04 a.m. our 18-year-old uh youth inspector went in and was able to purchase from an um older adult male was the description that the youth gave um backwood cigars for $9.7 and he was they failed to ask for an ID or verify age um and it resulted in the first sale in a 36-month period um for anon's and um you know we went back in the state database record and there is you know he asked us to go back to 2019 we usually go back to 200 in um we go back 36 months um however I went back to I think it was 2009 and there's no record of a sale you know any other violations State violations um with anth so um this was properly issued um under the state law this is a template that we use that was given to us by the state to use for when there's a sale to a minor or a flavor violation or any of the other state U mandates and it calls for a ,000 fine in a um 3-day business suspension and we attached that in a separate order so that happened on October 20th on November 4th the violation order went out um to the retailor on November 14th the city of lemonster received a check from Anthony's um signed by James cais um so it was paid for on November 14th um on our alliance end on December 4th Wednesday December 4th um staff gave a courtesy reminder call to two anony and we call the store number and we just ask to speak to owner manager whoever's present and we just give them a courtesy reminder that their suspension started on Friday um how how to cover their products what they were supposed to do ask if they had any questions and let them know that the inspector would be there Friday morning and that secret shoppers come in on the weekend um in the meantime on December 6 Friday morning my inspector went there and cigarettes and everything was still out and um they let my inspector know that there was an appeal pending and then that's when I I told her that's fine just exit the store we'll call the city and figure it out and that's when the phone calls happened between Micah and us and we found out that you know the day before or a couple days before that he had requested um a hearing but the violation was received and paid for we know that it was paid for on the 14th um so we you know obviously it got lifted um Sue made the decision um not realizing that the violation had been paid for to allow the suspension but the state law does allow for um any retailer to appeal the whole violation or ire so they can appeal just the fine or they can just appeal just a suspension or they can appeal the whole order um upon payment of this responsibility was taken for it so this hearing is about what to do about the suspension um we issue three all 46 towns issue three 7 and 30 7 is required for the second no less than seven for the second violation and no less than 30 for the third violation for the first violation the state law allows 1 to S days so for a responsible violation the board can't issue any less than one and no more than seven um and it is three so here the decision that the board after hearing testimony would be to um they could reduce it or increase it or leave it the same can I just ask a question on we we were looking at the CMR on this and I see in the violation section uh saying in the case of a first violation fine of $11,000 shall be imposed where is the suspension um yeah right above it it says uh 1 to 7 days cuz um for flavor violation there is no like other violations such as flavor couponing it's only an a $1,000 fine but for sales to miners it has to be um 1 to 7 for the first violation Jeff I think you were looking at the that's the mgl that okay first one you looking at that one cm was well no this is the CMR but I think I might have this didn't print the whole page it might have cut off yeah it's in a separate paragraph okay there's paragraph for the whole law and then a paragraph specific to the sales to minor okay right um we go in with a um iPad and we open open up in enter as soon as we pull into the parking lot we open up the inspection um for the retailer in the iPad satellite tracks um stamps it with satellite time and they um stamp the coordinates of where we are um for proof that we were in the store at that time and then when the youth comes out we enter everything follow the protocol and enter everything into the state database and it uploads into the state database um you know reasons for not responsible would be the board feels that evidence doesn't support that it happened it would be we made a protocol error a procedural error however that doesn't come into play because the retailer paid for the for the um violation and took responsibility for it um those would be the reasons that we would put in and then in terms of the violation um fine the um for a responsible finding a board can't reduce the fine but they can increase it if they have that in their local R um so you know our recommendation would be um to REM remain to our recommendation is this was a solid violation there's no protocol errors there's no procedural errors it's an unfortunate expensive mistake but every retailer since January 1st 2020 who has sold to a minor has received the 3-day um suspension and we had two other retailers that violated and paid and so those suspensions from this particular violation um Mr chis krosus would you like to speak thank you just state your name and um sure okay my name is Jim krisus James krisus I am the President and Sh primary shareholder of Anthony's pack Inc at 12 peer Boulevard and Gardner I resided for Rice Lane in Princeton Massachusetts what is the goal of why we're here the goal is to to reduce the use of tobacco by young people in Massachusetts the complaint being discussed here is that on October 20th 2024 I as an employee of Anthony's liart sold a pack of four small cigars for $978 to a youth inspector the purchaser was in fact an 18-year-old adult a person under the legal age to purchase tobacco in Massachusetts but in fact and adults for this offense anony is being fined $1,000 and forced to surrender his tobacco license for three business days this particular act that this violation comes under is an act of modernized Tobacco Control in 105 CMR 66500 and I just want to give you each I don't have enough for all of you but you can just see this is what I sold I want this to be clear this is what I sold to an adult okay now I want to bring your attention to 105 CMR 665 045 violations the last sentence of paragraph a reads such fines and actions related to any violation within a retail establishment shall apply against the retailer and or his or her business agent and not an employee thereof what the legislator legislature wanted to accomplish here is to only punish the retailer owner and have no liability for the clerk who made the sale is very Noble but what happens in reality not long ago I was at my doctor's office for a physical and I explained my circumstance to a nurse's aid she told me that her friend girlfriend worked for excuse me I forgot to ask if anyone was recording are you recording no okay sign in was continue please did her friend uh sold tobacco to one of your decoys during a different compliance check her friend didn't get fined and her friend didn't get charged her friend got fired we are living in a society where most people with paycheck to paycheck I don't think that that's the case in this room if she was making the minimum wage W of $15 an hour she was making $600 a week after your letter arrived she was making nothing assuming this woman goes to the unemployment office to get unemployment benefits they will be denied because she was fired for cause it's excuse me but that really doesn't Happ it does all of this is relevant if you please let me finish I'll give you a few more minutes on well I have a lot here and I've done a lot of work on this okay this this hearing is only understand regarding if if you want to have you know more information and do a hearing on the tobacco RS itself and how they not going to have a chance to present you're going to have a chance to present but we can't do anything about the it's it's only on the violation that you have um on if there's you know you want to look at all of the tobacco Rags itself and you know you can request a hearing that we discuss that and open Agenda I requested a hearing this was this is a hearing but on your violation this is a hearing on my violation well just to be clear we're talking about a state regulation passed by the legislature not this board right um and our we have some latitude in enforcement of the suspension period and that's it right we don't set the minor age we do not set the penalty and we do not um if a business chooses to fire an employee that has nothing to do with the Board of Health or the that's a a company policy has nothing to do with us I mean I think I know what you're leading up to and I don't disagree with you politically on this I think that you know personally that the F for the first violation I mean if you look at the local regulations we passed back in what was it 2017 um ours were less stringent than that and I think provided for a first violation without a suspension but just a fine um you know so again I don't want to get too deep into the political part of it because I don't think necessarily I for myself I can speak that I don't necessarily disagree with the point you're trying to get to but um we certainly want you to have an opportunity to be heard as well and that's where I mean if you want to you know really look in deeper about the regulations in itself I mean because in essence the violation occurred you paid the fine you had s days to ask request for a hearing and like I said I did Grant the hearing despite that under it what I thought was extenuating circumstances not knowing you'd already acknowledged and paid the fine so again you know with what um Jeff says I mean we have to just be specific on your violation with regards to why we should repeal the um suspension well we can't rep we can't repeal it but decrease it I'm sorry Joan before you we're going to let you finish um but you said there hasn't been a violation since what year I you went back I went back to 2009 2009 um there was no State violation since 2009 we had a few things in there about locals unlock cigar youw that we handled locally but there's no State violation no do violation no FDA violation no State violation no do violation so so just with that in mind we we want you to be more so then I will skip that all right I respectfully appeal to the members of the Board of Health to resend the complaint against anties packet story Inc for these reasons the compliance check was entrapment the compliance check find suspension are in contradiction to the guidelines of the legal Handbook of the Massachusetts Boards of Health the Edition third edition chapter 12 page 113 paragraph 1 the compliance check and suspension is violation of the rights of anth pistor under the Massachusetts Constitution Article 26 of the Declaration of Rights no magistrate or court of law shall Dem man excessive ba assies or impose excessive fines the compliance f is in violation of the rights of Anthony's Package Store under the eth Amendment of the United States Bill of Rights excessive bail should not be nor required nor excessive fines imposed nor CR or an unusual punishment inflicted and lastly the compliance check and subsequent fines are selective enforcement my purpose today is to defend Anthony's package for Inc if the compliance che check was entrapment done in an unethical purposeful manner outside the norm of the guidelines of the limd tobacco Alliance the compliance check was done in such a way as to settle a grudge with myself the only offense to which Anthony is being fined $1,000 in lost its license the sale of one pack of cigars for $978 to an adult to an adult under 21 it cannot be deduced from this transaction that this is a normal conduct of the management or employees of Anthony's look M the complaint is for a one-time event I have no motivation or intent to sell a $978 package of cigars to an underage person I made a mistake an indiscretion that I'm being find in Gross disproportion to the severity of event in the Wednesday January 22nd 2025 edition of The Garden news this Hamlet makes several remarks that I found rather disrespectful regarding my appeal she says I have been doing this for 30 years and I have never seen a business pay the fine and then after the fact ask for their money back I'm very disappointed in this remark because she knows how this appeal came about when my story received the letter from the LED tobacco Alliance I was at the mail clinic in Jacksonville Florida I am there twice a year for medical reasons which are confidential the employee who read the letter to me from the tobacco Alliance only told me what the fine penalty work he failed to inform me that there was an appeal process when I returned from the mail Clinic I was past the 7day appeal appeal period I paid my fine I paid my fine and prepared the close tobacco sales as instructed on Thanksgiving Eve I happened to meet our Mayor Michael Nicholson when I explained to the mayor how disappointed I was with the city's over-the-top fine for such a small indiscretion he interviewed intervened on his own without my asking I did not ask him to intervene to allow me to have an appe appeal the mayor was never informed that the action of October 20th 2024 was going to occur or had occurred he had no knowledge of it the 11 tobacco Alliance did not have the courtesy to inform the elected chief executive of the city of what it was going to do or what he did the may even meant said that he didn't even know RI soly sorry if I butchered your name the Gard tobacco agent listed on the complaint I am 78 years old it and in my opinion I been the retail liquor industry a lot longer than you've been doing what you ever do you have further quote is saying there is no viable reason for retailers to sell to Miners and that's why the finds are so high and the laws are pretty strict and I like this we want to help people into compliance we are not here to catch people in the ACT these are just really expensive mistakes and yet you just heard that you go back all the way to 2009 and I've never been out of compliance so how is this helping me into compliance m ham obviously has never worked in a retail business we work hard the hours are long and the work can be very taxing in the current economy is very difficult to get qualified help in my situation from May 3rd until October 20th a span of 169 days over half a year I had 17 days off that is what it takes dayto day to keep a viable retail business running it is hard because Miss Hamlet does not work as hard as we do of course she has no clue ex me that that that there's no reason to be attacking Miss Hamlet and I'm just what she says so I don't I think that again I I want to stress that you know there there's a point of reference about the city and everything and that we we're talking about a state law here passed by the state legislation you know so um again I think maybe it's I I I respect your comments and I I I believe that you have a point with some of the things you're saying I do want to stress that Joan is doing her job to the best of her ility and that we do take these violations seriously in the protection of the public health um I want to make a motion and open it up to discussion that you know being that this is a reputable local business there's a spotless record here for 15 years um I would make a motion to reduce it to one day um and again I'm not speaking for the board but I'm putting it out there so we can discuss maybe with reference to the specifics of the violation you know what should be done here we'd have to close the hearing first before we have discussion correct no no there is there any additional presentation yeah there is it's 60 hours on this but we we have to limit the you know the things that we have no control over we have to limit this attacks on people doing their job in the name of Public Health too so if there's something specific that you need to close with I invite you to just get that last part and I will correct the fact that the mayor did not intervene in a sense of he did not request he's not going to know all the employees or people he asked me um told me about your extending circumstances asked me what can we do since the time frame was already passed for the request for appeal and again I granted the appeal and hearing um based on the extenda circumstances presented as on a compassionate level with that um so we do care about um the retailers unfortunately the laws are state laws and they are very specific with underage sales and you know 18 is considered an adult yes but the laws for the sale of tobacco to underage is 21 and the whole the whole process is outlined in the regulations with the education that's received every year each retailer on the fact that there will be um compliance checks and people will be coming in throughout the year so this is all there and I believe every year here um they all retailers are educated in that um the other retailers who had violations also you know I we have to I think I will say you know be careful too and not setting precedent on um reversing decisions that were made after the fact because the that day they were two other the retailers and they you know did not request hearings um we do have the hearing but it was you know after the fact so just to keep that yeah I mean I'm just saying you know my opinion is that if you're you go 15 years of sales without a single violation um there's an obvious good faith effort here to comply with the law you know I mean there's no repeated course of conduct and um I don't know I I think that you know again it's it's the regulation is what it is our regulations that we discussed and passed in accordance what we thought was fair were much less stringent than what the state regulations so yeah we just can't change that well I'm saying yeah I'm not saying we're changing anything we don't have any discretion to change a state law you do have the discretion to go down or up that's right yeah that's all specific period of time that the 3 days suspension was supposed to be held and that was all all suspensions start on Friday yeah all suspensions start on a Friday whether they're a three or a seven 30 days always start on the first of the month um so it was supposed to be December 6th through the 8th Friday Saturday Sunday and they could resume sales on Monday um a one-day suspension we would reset the date here if that's what the board ends up voting on whatever you end up voting on we would reset the suspension dates here um I did you did allude to this Su so I just wanted to this is a document that everybody has and has received and for the record I just wanted to say um these are the FYI um education packets we usually have full packets but I only brought the annual FY memo for each year and for I have five years of signatures four of them are from um James and the one is from their manager for the fy2 24 but we highlight they sign that they receive it because in addition to a youth access compliance check we do a youth uh retail education visit where we give them the education packet we go over everything in the packet every year ask if they have any questions we offer additional uh retailer Ed where we can come in and educate employees onsite in the store if that's something they need we offer materials if they have any language Equity issues we do this prior to doing these inspections and as you can see we highlighted in yellow on each Year's letter we specifically talk about please be advised that you you s to miners um as per state law is 1,000 to 5,000 in in in suspensions that boards cannot reduce um so we've provided that education um since 2020 at a year and we have we provided all the signatures um for anon's he has a copy as well um because we we do work hard to help people come into compliance and not catching the non-compliance by all of our educational efforts and um you know all of the local inspectors in Tobacco Control mtcp funded we are trained the same FDA inspectors local inspectors and state inspectors all follow the same state training and protocols um so all the youth inspections done by the federal us and state are all um following the same protocols the difference is as your local inspector any fines collected go into your general fund where you know state inspections they don't going you don't get the the money um our goal is to help people come into compliance it's not to catch people in non-compliance um but unfortunately regulatory checks are part of the process of holding a Department of Revenue license and holding a local tobacco license and the governor declared youth access um to M uh sales to miners in vaping a state of emergency in 2019 our current governor has left that state of emergency in place and our three attorney generals since that time have also um declared um use sales to minor a selling to A A minor is one of the most gous um violations of the state tobacco law and in context to the uh newspaper article I said the governor imposed the fines and increased them from 100 to 300 to a th000 to 5,000 because the law does not feel after all 25 years of education now it's 30 but 25 years of education that there is any viable excuse for a sale to minor so it was in context to the intentions of why the governor declared a state of emergency it was not in reference to any retailer um but you know again it's it was taken slightly out of context thank you for that clarification so there's a did you have anything else well you know obviously you're not going to let me make my entire Pres presentation so I just as I say I just want to touch on a few points now since I'm going to have to consolidate all the work that I've done over the last few weeks getting ready for today but as I said in the very beginning that I do feel that this was entament and one of the reasons for those of you here who haven't seen the tobacco compliance check I don't know have you seen this you've all seen it okay anybody else who out pass this out I want you to note that this is a AE printed form for compliance checks and you'll notice in the upper right hand corner it says survey of participants in the pre printed form there are two boxes to check for age one is 16 one is 17 we expect people to come in and do compliance checks who are easily identifiable as minors here you've written in 18 so you've gone outside of your protocol and use a person who is an adult albe it a person under 21 it is an adult so you in your argument could say that you could use a person who is 20 years 51 weeks 6 days and 23 hours old and that would be an adequate reason if I sold that person a $9 pack of cigars to find me $11,000 and take away my cigarette license for three days because what's the difference if they're that age or they're 18 they the went up were those printed before the age went up I believe the regulations correct to me if I'm wrong that when you um identify um someone as being underage for selling under 21 that you should be that the regulations mean that you um request identification for anyone looking under 27 years of age the state law says you have to card everybody and verify the age of every person purchasing tobacco that was what was prior to 2020 but the new law it means me it means you it means anybody in this room would have to be carded Accord to state law um I just want to make reference I'm sorry I thought I had the floor I thought I they opened up the conversation about this and the so I I just I can do it after and you can finish or I can just clarify this form what happens is we're out on the iPads and they're Wi-Fi dependent on Verizon Wi-Fi and often especially when I'm by the cumin Farms there's three spots in Gardener where it dips down so what I have my inspectors do is use the old paper form from this was Prior this was probably 2018 the last time we used this form um and back then it was 18 so I have them they data enter everything in the database and as you can see this is the post database form that everybody received this is what gets data entered in real time and that's what everybody received but I always have my staff take 9 seconds and fill out the old paper form because if something happened with the Wi-Fi and a sale Dinka uploaded right we wanted to make sure we have the paper backup to data enter it in but because this is a form that is done in the process we we provide this form to our retailers but this is just a sec secondary backup form in case that there's post data entry Wi-Fi problems and it didn't get put in that data entry and if you're going to data enter something in because it didn't upload in real time you have to go into the state database and get permission to do that and justify why it wasn't done in real time and that's why we do um a paper backup form and then I just if we're using we can use up to 20 and A2 year olds if we're using somebody they just write in the age if it's not 16 or 17 so I just wanted to um clarify that this is just provided because it's part of the it's part of the process so just going back want to make a couple more points about the contrapment and you know the comment that was made in the paper we want to help people into compliance we're not here to catch people in the app these are just really expensive mistakes you bet they are and so as I have not had a a recorded violations to 2009 I find it very interesting when I received the record of the number of the the accounts of your um Alliance doing uh compliance checks at my store that you did two on October 1st 2023 now if I have no record of of uh non-compliance if I have a record of non-compliance that goes back at 2009 and you come in on October 1st and I pass your compliance check the fact that you came back a second time the same day to me is clear that you were head hunting for me now I know you're not going to let me get into the reasons why that happened but there was a contentious circumstance with your uh Association your alliance when you very first started and one of your agents wanted to come behind my counter and had no identification and I wouldn't allow her to and she called the police and the police told her that she couldn't come behind the counter and I had to come to her hearing and the hearing was contentious it was so contentious that the woman kept interrupting me and after the meeting the mayor of gardener Mark Hawk at the time made identification badges for your alliance and but Dr Miller Don Miller who's now deceased came to me and said that he was resigning from this board because he'd never wanted to be involved with such a contentious hearing again it was very disappointing so I think that using a person 18 years of age coming in twice on the same day and the last thing you did this uh compliance check on my store at 11:09 in the morning we open the store at 11:00 when we open this store at 11:00 on Sunday it is our most vulnerable time we have to turn on the lights we have to turn on the music we have to turn on the cash registers we have to turn on the lottery machine credit card machines and we have a rush and we did have a rush this morning when this gentleman came in and he was over 6 feet tall and he was 18 years old and in the middle of it he reached across over my cash reg and said can you give me one of those tobacco now I have people here want to be waited on I have people that I'm watching for shoplifting I looked at him I assessed that he looked old enough to me and I sold him that $9 pack of tobacco so miss Hammer as you say you've had 30 years in the business you know when we are the most vulnerable and you got me when I was the most vulnerable so I'm not going to wait I you're not going to let me go through all the constitutional aspects of it because you're saying it's a state law I feel that when this law was written that the legislature was manipulated to write it in such a way is that it does not read a fine um up to $1,000 because that would be more fair that would give you more latitude to say well we don't have to char a find here and I read how this law was crafted and I never saw are how the convenience store Association or the Massachusetts Package Store Association had any involvement with the crafting of this law so this law was crafted as such that we you like you say you have you wanted this you want your Association your affiliation wanted to have no latitude that for the the simplest indiscretion the least indiscretion which in a court of law is defensible if I am a person of good character which I am is defensible if I made a mistake is defensible if it is unmotivated which it was my store grosses $3.5 million a year I don't need this I was not motivated to sell this I had no reason to do this it was a mistake and if this was a court of law in front of a judge I would be found not guilty so this in conclusion I'm just going to say this is this appealable if he wants to appeal it be on this or um after here um I I mean he could get an attorney and get an injunction at superior court and sue um but that's that's the Avenue of that which is it's a very good point because as this law is crafted it is so anti- business because in order for me to do that now I would have to engage an attorney at a cost of between 15 and $25,000 I do okay so let me let me finish okay so this law is crafted this was crafted by your your Association that we're we're trapped You Know It Came Upon Us we didn't see it I never had a chance none of my colleagues had a chance to even appear at a hearing about this law it got it got stuck on us and now you guys sit here and say oh well we can't do this and we can't do that you can do a lot of things if you want to do it and so I'm going to suggest and I really thought the mayor was going to be here today and I'm disappointed he's not but my suggestion is going to be to the city of Garder that it disassociate itself from the lemonster tobacco Alliance I do not like lemonster telling Gardner what to do I'm going to just finish I'm I'm just saying what I'm going what I'm going to suggest and I'm going to suggest that the city council and the mayor pass a rule that when compliance checks are done in Gardner they have to be done by somebody who's not an adult and that the purchase is a minimum of $100 because if this person came to me and wanted to purchase a cart in a MOS for $149 and I sold it to them you got a constitutional case but they say to me that I owe you $11,000 in the 3day suspension for this is unconstitutional it's un IAL it's disturbing it's disgusting that's my point okay this point anything else for any because I'm going to close the hear I just wanted to clarify for the record that on 10123 10123 where he's talking about how we went in twice we did not go in twice often alcohol stores sometimes these inspections are done on the weekend so what would have happened is more than likely because it's in R attest to this that lots of times we go to liquor stores and they open later a lot of stores are open eight he's out with a kid the it you would put in the state database can you do this store no closed at the time they finish the town and then they loop back and see if it's open before they leave so it wasn't two youth going in there twice it was one in there saying close at the time and then they loop back at the end of the inspection that's that's very common with liquor stores and I'm not sure what day this was I'm not sure what hours it was um and once in a while the state database because of the Wi-Fi it loads up and then you might hit the resend and it sends it twice and it's a duplicate of the exact same but never in the history of the alliance since 1994 have we ever gone into a retailer stores twice in the same day in a youth inspection it has never happen and that's not the um violation date no there was no sale that day yeah this was two years ago not related to today but I just wanted to clarify because um I just think that for the record it needs to be known that the alliance has never gone in um a store two times in the same day do either of you have any other question questions I just want to say that the the law is in place for a reason to protect the youth and as a physician I think the degree of severity of this Bine and the length of the suspension is beyond our decision making if there's a pathway to pursue that for the mayor or for the citizens then then that's the way to go but as a board of Heth we do inspections of food places so that you can comfortably walk in and know that you're not going to get sick and it's done the same way with like random compliance checks and notifications and reinspection and and it is a lot of work for our Board of Health to make sure that the community is safe and the tobacco laws the same way protecting our youth and so I'm a little discouraged to hear that you do not feel that that was something that you did admit it was a mistake you're not really taking the responsibility that there is a a need to card everyone if that's the way the law reads and the finds are what the law reads as well so you're saying that if you came into my store that I should cargue yeah if that's how that's how the law needs I know it takes extra time I know it's half but it's there for re to protect the the youth and I hear what you're saying but until that Law changes we have to uphold those so explain to me on Christmas Eve when I'm running four cash registers and I have four lines four people deep and I'm waiting on one person every minute how do I card every person out and ready people you know and and I'm seeing the same people the same customers who've been coming in my store for you know my store now is in its 90th year I've been running it since 1996 so I see people who come in week after week and I have to card them every time they come in that is up to you because no just say that's the the way that's the law you know and and you can look at this this is an example of the alcohol beverage commission now here's a case where uh the alcohol beverage commission waited outside of the package store on Cap Cod and this person excuse me let me me excuse me it's it's not because we're talking about tobacco so right now no but you're talking about tobacco and I understand that and I'm saying this that in this particular case that I'm showing you the violation that this person committed this was an 18-year-old boy who bought a 12-pack of uh simply spiked lemonade okay if he drank those 12 cans he's intoxicated he'll be drunk driving nobody ever got arrested for for driving under the influence of a cigar and yet the professional alcohol beverage commission investigators in this case after a total investigation they suspended the person's license for one day put it in bance for one year the clerk was not fired didn't lose their job and that is how professionals handle situations we are human we make mistakes this is an indiscretion it is defensible okay I think um the hearing is now closed um and do we have a motion to close the hearing what oh the hearing yes I don't think we I mean I don't know was there a motion from you or was that just a comment it was a motion just to get some discussion going as to what we now closed to the public as far as you know comments um you have a motion on the floor that um decrease it to one day the suspension I can say that okay any discussion one thing uh just clarify is that you can uh reduce it to a one day but then suspend the other two so in the future if there wasn't another those those two within I think 36 months continue without finding for 36 months yeah those continued days would get stacked on again so that's an option as well right okay I'll actually amend my motion to that effect any discussion amend and discussion I mean I'm kind of torn because we you know just not to set precedent on I we have two other people who violated that day and paid Their fines and their suspensions and all the things that you're presenting and all the things you're saying um certainly have some Merit if you wanted to question the whole tobacco law law you know um The Tobacco Control law that's for that Avenue but that's not what we we're here for we're here for to question what we can do you know you made an appeal um even you know though it was delayed we we granted the hearing I'm just concerned that you know what if we make any changes to the suspension how does that set precedent to the other um retailers who were fine and did the same thing and did not you know went past their seven days and did not request a feeling but you know then do we since we're showing compassion for the medical circumstances that you mentioned we're showing compassion for the fact that you've had a very clean record you're very law-abiding person with your business and we respect that if someone else wants to make those same cases that they had a medical issue to delay their appeal they had a a clean record and they wanted lower than three days to a one day I hear them out I just want to make sure raise that because that was the whole you know um when you know thinking you know to Grant the hearing even though it was late that was the basis that I I did it on and I just want to make sure that you know it's not setting any precedent and there is a precedent of there have been hearings in the past with this Ford where there were extending extenuating circumstances and certain violations have been reduced in the past this isn't the first time it's ever happened so so the motion on the floor which has been seconded is the fact that we are looking at decrease in the suspension to one day and um if there's any other violations within the 36 month period Then those other two days would be tapped on to the suspension granted at that violation so can we have a vote everyone in favor I so the fine has already been paid um you will have one day suspension and again you know if you want to pursue any other path with the law itself then you know that would be a different um we just have to set the sus the day the day of the suspension so we have the 7th 14th 21st and 28th we are already out doing permit susp ition checks on the 7th in the 21st so do you have a preference Mr crasus uh 7th is fine okay thank you next on the agenda is um half Department updates um so I'll start with the Landfill Road control [Music] project and' waiting until we get some better weather conditions and we are also working on where we're going to get out funding project anything further from the insurance no further [Music] [Music] upates as soon as possible um next is theill environmental monitoring updates um so on last Thursday uh have a meeting with myself Dane Arnold Rob Olivia and Justin en so myself tpw conservation hel meeting as well as neolia Jo as well so we held that meeting to kind of just discuss um areas where we might have overlap and areas where we doubt and just to get more of a communication going um what plans each group has and what issues are outstanding ways go through those issues together um one of the things that came up is the project um I guess there was a project that got started with Warren as far as repairing the pumps themselves okay so currently at the landfill there are six pumps um currently only two of the six are working um so there's six pumps there's there's three chambers with two pumps in each chamber so they're in like separated Chambers so there's basically two stations that are operational and so um we just need to find out more about what how much the J is inside there is getting pumped out enough and um what we do as far as all the other pumps up so those those are the ones that when we took the tour there was a section of the ones where the fence kind of had gotten those the pumps that you talk um there actually there's three different zones right landfill so there are for one we just repaired and we had a bunch of dirt sucked out of pump chamber was over by the gas fler um you can see there's this big I think foot and a half two foot pipes coming out of the ground and that's the the the pump is down there in a in a pumping chamber so right now then there's one pump that's not working um or two with two Chambers so there's a pump and then there's a backup each chamber um so we just want to get working on that and um it could relate to the 14 dioxy management the groundwater issues um so that is something else that I'm going to get um figuring out as far as if there were contracts signed for this if there was money in covered for this I have to do some research and find out um because I think it kind of got dropped off in between Lauren leaving and myself starting um so we will continue to meet as needed basis um and whenever you request something like that kind of look at things going forward um I talk to CC I'm going to have um one of their representatives attend the next Board of Health meeting um I avoided this meeting just because of the hearing today so as soon as we schedu our next meting and we'll get cc to come out to that uh if you have any questions or anything that you want to ask them or have them address at the meeting okay just send that to me and I'll I'll get that all put together okay is there a specific person or ask some um it's going to be Phil jagoda is my main contact there so it should be him or if he thinks there's someone who can speak to the questions better he'll bring them yes so actually worked for um who were doing the testing before CDC so he's had a he's got quite a lot of history with the lill and um extend that to the public if you have questions send them over to Micah so that we have a list and maybe we can get them to him ahead of time so can do one of the things that I'm just going to say is um why it's been hard to track down some of the the the records are not digitalized um we've been talking about trying to come up with plans to try to get a scanner and maybe look at getting some of the volunteer help that comes through the city hall to help digitalize our records so it's because it's been whenever anybody requests a record it's been um painstaking trying to find those records so the delays are not for that's why there's been delays in trying to come up with things so hopefully we get somewhere with that soon uh mam sh yes may I just say a couple of things yes please state your name thank you Alan Russo 21 Road I'm also a property of butter of the landfill property um questions are the meeting last Thursday um inter dep on my understanding was that was going to be done at the next Board of Health meeting when everybody was available for the last meeting no I understood it as a just an inter Department yeah I have to go back and relook at my notes I'm pretty sure because I asked the question about the meeting that it was going to be public and a followup question that is is there any public record of that meeting minutes or recording so that the public can at least view the interdepartmental meeting disc discussion because that was really an important right right my understanding was always that it was going to be interdepartmental to try to get the board's conservation um DPW and Board of Health because as you know you've been through this process here that you know for quite months and um trying to get everybody on the same page and talking about this whole thing because um it's not just one of one board that has Juris it's all affected so that was um you I don't know what record were kept with into departmental meetings but it was my understanding always that it was into that was our first step we wanted to get all the Departments speaking and communicating and um and getting cc to come to our meeting and speak to us um beond you know that as first step just getting them to all sit down and discuss the matter um because and I don't know I know the sludge informational meeting is coming up but if that will bring I mean that the Sledge landfill extension extension it's not something we have jurisdiction on person you know over the sludge L but hoping that you know by second question some information thank you my understanding important meeting supported that whole high in public but my second question is um what's the mayor doing about this the mayor's your boss right this is an urgent contamination issue from the landfill property we don't know the exact Source extent of the contamination and we certainly as Dr Parker mentioned at the last meeting what's the remediation what's the action plan that's what we need to get to but we need to and we that's the process you know I think that we've all been working towards and that was the start of he's then he gets you know I mean I'm not one important thing is that this chemical is there's no requirements for any kind of remediation anything like that it's just um has a requirement to be reported um so there's really at this point we're going to do what we can to make sure the Phil is operating as intended um but there's really not a plan beyond that as far as like if there's remediation if we're told to do so we will um but it's one p ACC is just a reportable contaminant at this point it's not been deter it's not like I mean it took a process before p i mean we really are being very um trying to be Progressive about trying to and aggressive with trying to address it since the beginning when we we had the knowledge of it that you know last see my question was really supp mayor doing what's the answer to that question this is we're not doing we got to stop the leag wherever it's coming from Fast yeah well because we don't and we don't even know where it is so we don't know we still don't know how long it's been there and you know there's so many other is it is there anything coming from the sludge you know and lo when I think back about the tour that we had um of where it was you know the wetlands and everything and then your property that buts we don't know there's nothing that shows if it's not been there for a while because we don't test it we don't test any of those areas so I mean we working towards trying to look at all of that I mean I I think my question was just I don't me to believe it I know not a public hearing I thank you for allowing me to speak but my my concern is I think it's an urgent issue all right I don't care about the state regulations I want to know what the mayor's doing about it what's the mayor doing about it and we talked about hiring an LSP all right I think that was discussed at the last meeting licens High professional to investigate the source and extent of the contamination we got to do that first we got to stop we got to stop we got to find out where it is and stop and you're absolutely right uh uh mam shair shair pres we don't know if it's a sledge landfill or the solid waste landfill the there's a shared uh jurisdiction from the DPW versus respectively the Board of Health for health department so but to me the first thing and I think we clearly talked about it at the last meeting thanks to Dr Parker was you're G to know more about how to get to the point where we can stop this thing happening that's what I'm we don't have a plan yet and I don't hear any I don't hear I don't hear any kind of a war room being formed you you know we had a review meeting wasn't even video and documented we're open to the public so I got a lot of concerns and I know all of them on at the Board of Health but I'm here now and I would ask other questions at other meetings uh uh consistent with that so that that's all I so was it LSP discussed to your knowledge as far as um I brought it up last time I actually had it on my notes here um so there is there are grants from Mass it's looking at fun um so it's called the it's called the mass technical assistance grants um and currently we're just waiting for the opening period to um start applying for that open up doesn't say just says coming soon on the website so what is it called um it's called a technical assistance grant to mass and that is for um one of the things we'll have to look into is because it's for um I think it's mainly meant for cases of extreme contamination where there's an actual chemical that you know is a concern to health um rather than um something like what we're looking that where it's something in the parts per billion and it's really undetermined what kind of Hazards dep poses yet so um there is some question about eligibility would we be eligible but I'm going to be getting a hold of TP and iig you need help wrting that I I did a little bit of research on this and I think the challenge is you know this is so new it's so the threshold was changed you know a bunch of things are kind of in flux the also what Sue was saying these sort of forever chemicals are scary because they could have been here a long time and not been detected you know and then if they're there uh is there a way to remediate them or or do they just stay at that level and we hope it doesn't go up you know because obviously if it's increasing that's that's much more concerned concern identifi Source but we would need a grant to do some serial testing to do some different locations is you know we to get all these things done we need fun funding which is unfortunately one of the situations um yes yeah I just like to make a really quick statement please state your name and andul Paul the mail I'm a citizen um the city of Gardner right now has $1 million of avail glob funds $8 million left over from the elementary school and $3 million in free cash the money is there I I think we need to press the mayor to provide the funding never mind the grant we've got the money and as Mr Russo said time is of the essence here his property is being polluted do we have idea on the cost that we're talking about M I don't not at this time you know his his family his grandchild are all being threatened by a Cy you know we've been talking right so I think you're making a lot of assumptions um understand that you all close I don't think you're overstating the urgency here quite a bit no I don't think so at all I disagree with you all right that's kind a public cor no B sure is yes well I appreciate that we the money is there let's find out because that's another because assumption you're making based on numbers from a budget sheet so I think there's a lot more to it it's public record it's been made the whole we don't know it where that money is if it's you know identified but certainly when you know we meet with the mayor or M meets with the mayor again then it will come up well I think as a board certainly we should you know suggest that everything every possibility being looked into to pursue that Avenue I mean we're obviously as a board concerned right and and yeah we've we've been communicating um we can do that as a formal um formal to to communicate that to the mayor formally um informally we have okay J D 44 Stone Street Gardener I just want to make mention where you said the groups are we're trying to get together it's interesting that the uh public hearing for this for the plan uh for the landfill extension is the same night as the Conservation Commission is meeting and it would be pretty significant for them to be or have the opportunity the members that be something for DPW I I'm just saying because you were mentioning trying to get together yeah I'm just trying to say that the communication has I wasn't aware of that but I mean the inter departmental meeting I don't know if um those are open I don't really know know to be honest with you how those run um because it was interdepartmental but like I said I from our last meeting that was what we had requested to get everybody on the same page and um I think that was important step to get done and and it was I mean as far as the like I said I I never had the understanding that it would be public or or here you know during our our Board of heal meeting but certainly that was um a step in getting the CC and you know we can look again at getting an LSP and you know we can formally um inform the mayor that you know we would like to you know have that looked at as you know somewh a priority and express that concern thank you welome okay so just one last thing on environmental monitoring is that we will be having soil X come out to take a look at the damaged ground monitor watering Wells and the beginning replace those or repair those good they prediction according to the newspaper anyway for the next 3 months is it's going to be warmer after this cold spell coming in so maybe we can get some of this stuff done sooner than food establishments um Chipotle is now open in timony Plaza we have a tatas Fonda is moving into the former Crown Fried Chicken at 66 through 72 main streets they're just waiting on a final inspection from building and fire um reopen in their new location last week at 242 W Broadway is is their old location then closed they moved they were going to do take out at the old place and have Chase signing in all important things so they are going to keep both Loc um we had no freeorn endless complaints we did have one emergency response to frozen pipes uh the business had closed voluntarily already so just kind to monitor that until we got performing fixed um housing inspections Property Standards we did do one condation on and um two family dwelling it was not occupied the owner was out of the country there was a pipe that burst and the electricity had to be shut off they are now back working on getting electricity restored and then we'll come in and Sh everything else once that get sorted uh the ago's office is still moving forward on some re receivership receivership properties for Town um Andel and I will probably be meeting with the new city solicitor at some point soon to discuss um poed abandoned properties and what we can do there to get a little bit more movement on some of these um and tomorrow there will be a periodic I think it's tomorrow periodic inspection at the Super Eight so update angel will be jumping on so yeah I'm anxious to so we only have a few families left there or no no the shelter is near its capacity it is okay yes according to my most recent meeting with the heel collaborative um they are still cycling families too they have a 5year lease so this is not expected to be um winding down with the current um situ it's very much in flux right now um but right now they're they're they're close to capacity this is just a periodic inspection for safety for the building with uh buildin fire and health are going to go in just to make sure that you know the structure is sound the fire smoke detectors are working that the emergency - grasses aren't blocked uh I'm going to take a check on the sanitation check for um any pests or also we need to check the kitchen there because there's been some confusion about what's being done there in the kitchen right I was just going to ask are they still preparing meals off site and delivering that is what is agreed on yes okay so yeah and do we have or is that being through mph and um like looking at the CH well I guess through the schools any of the children in the schools and what about the adults for up toate immunizations and things the um there is a yeah there is a um mobile clinic that comes in and does the vaccinations they review all of their records and they make sure that they're up to dat they put them on a schedule to become up to date right okay and that's still ongoing that's ongoing all right I don't have a lot for prevention other than just planning for the upcoming health and wellness cares we have the greater Gardener health and wellness Fair scheduled for April 24th from 5 to 7 and then the garden schools I think will be the week prior to that and that's at City Hall April yes4 um I found out from the city auditor that we still have some Grant funds for um Substance Abuse Prevention from a sa sapc West Grant um so Veronica is working on identifying some projects that we can use that money for um and the last thing I had was that on the agendas we just do not have an inclement weather policy for the transfer station and it just came up recently with some of the extremely cold temperatures um whether or not we should Implement something like that so I can definitely write something up and present it to the board at the next yes I any I would think that would be a great idea extreme heat extreme cold um and do we have any other information on trying to provide a better type of shelter area there was another grant that um I think we forwarded some information to the grant writers that the mayor had brought in um and we were going to kind of tie everything with improving the sewer improving the SES um everything they going to look for some money there um otherwise I got a quote for a modular building it probably be in the neighborhood over around $300,000 um but it could be much less because we can get a lot of that covered like utility hookups and stuff like that will be covered would that include um restroom facil restroom and U heating and cooling system I mean it's it's really just a little I mean in all this cold and stuff yes looked into options it's just again a matter getting money to to get something out there um I have a few we don't have a thing for new business but a couple things um so the NPH and the monus of Public Health Network that we are a part of those meetings um are we will I think they're going to discuss there's a meeting on Wednesday um and we'll going to discuss about posting those so that anybody from the public from the different communities should you know are aware of them too um right now we're still you know the state does a lot with um this promoted the shared services or the NPH is actually a um Public Health Excellence Grant we all the state trying to get re keep on Regional programs and so I just um there may be some things coming through that would be nice for every you knowbody to beware so we're going to talk about that I think on Wednesday about getting that posted out for everybody um the other thing is that um we should elect a new chair or or elect a chair every year that was part of the RS that we have have we've been doing so um we need to elect a chair for the coming year so can I just make a motion that you continue as chair are you willing yes continue because you're doing a great job yeah I mean you know some days I I question and wonder and want to go you know run away but um if you feel you know that I'm doing a good job and you want to um I mean I do have more availability it's a little bit more flexible which is helpful too and um I try to stay active with as many of the public health Communications and calls and conferences there are so so many um as I can but um you know so I guess make a motion if you want you made a motion okay all in favor I okay I'm again um and the other um I'm trying to think what I was the woman C well the woman center is open for we are you know the whole homelessness and the especially in the cold is really um something that just I think probably bothers all of us you know um looking at what can in that can not be done I know that there's um a list of resources we don't have a homeless shelter through the city um but there are many resources that um through Alysa place I've been sharing on social media when it gets below a certain temperature is it 32 or I can't remember exactly what it is but the woman centers open up at the community center the police station the library um trying to Center um so it's just um we it's not out of our mind um we're looking at different things to try to get address um it's just do Lands have to maintain a minimum temperature I know it's challenging when really really cold like that but I've had a couple patients asking me like what they have speak heaters but then they're having electric yeah we this is what we've been dealing with in the last six weeks they call us not putting the heat on and they're forcing people to use this is someone with rain no so their fingers get you knowed I mean they're not that bad yet but they're like if I don't use my space heaters I'm going to have symptoms and so it's it's not enough it's not just like a it's helping and like I think there's probably a requirement for them to meet yep 64 overnight 68 during the day and that has to be the primary heating system it can't be with supplemental heating systems which a space eater supplemental supplemental okay okay good to know okay so setting the next meeting [Music] that would be February uh February 24th is probably um the name [Music] just I um will set the 24th there's a possibility I may [Music] be at a commission for a few weeks but if I am then I'll let you know but I'm going to put we'll put down the 24 so that's the meeting when the representative is going to be here yes um so you'll want to probably be here for that when we schedule if you're going to have an issue you think or having some surgery on the 13th I'm thinking I should be able to be here um hopefully yeah I should be able to be here we can resed I might need a ride yeah okay um all right so take a motion to adjourn a motion to adourn Second and all in favor motion is adjourned at 5:55 p.m.