May 20th 6:30 we're in council chambers and before we begin I'm going to go over the ground rules by which this board operates and also I'm going to read the agenda. So I'll start with the agenda thing up the ground rules.
Okay, it's May 20th uh time 6:30. We're in room 219, city council chambers, 95 Pleasant Street Garden, Mass. Any person may make a video or audio audio recording of an open session of a meeting or may transmit the meeting
through any medium subject to the reasonable requirements of the chair as to the number, placement, and operation of equipment use so as not to interfere with the conduct of the meeting. Any person intending to make such a recording shall notify the sheriff forth
with all documents referenced or used during the meeting must be submitted in duplicate to the clerk. All documents shall become part of the official record of the meeting. So I'll ask the question is anyone going to be videoing or recording in any
way? The answer is no. Okay. The agenda itself case 2022-01-01 it's a continuent special permit Jonathan Bombachi 1631 165 Pine Street parcel ID
R22-6-8 special permit violation update case 2024-9-3 continuing special permit BCF Investments LLC 75 Oak Street. Parcel ID M20
M27-24-57. Change a two family to a three family dwelling. Case 2025-04-01 of continuent special permit Stevenson 0M Street parcel ID M22-25-5 construct two multifamily
dwellings. Case 2025-05-01 of variance Gary Colette and Joe Colette 21-9 Stephanie Drive parcel ID M17-15-3 individualize the driveways per
condo lot Case 2025-05-02 of variance Gary Colette and Joe Colette 21 19 Stephanie Drive personal ID DM1715-15-3 individualized the driveways
per condo lot E case 2025-05-03 variants Gary Colette and Joe Colette 21-9 Stephanie Drive partial ID M17-15-3 individualized driveways per
condo lot D case 2025-05- 4 variance Jonathan Austo 353 Otter River Road parcel ID C37-
7-3 second driveway to access a [Music] building it's I know it's a building on another lot but okay and what else we have here then we will any read any
announcements or correspondence and then acceptance of or andor corrections to minutes of a previous meeting submitted Ray Leafon chair. Okay. So before we begin and sitting on tonight's cases to my far
right is Lori Witter to my right immediate Richard Hanks myself Ray Leon is chair to my left Mel Cornet to Mel's left David Anta and to
David's left Robert Rice who will be celebrating his first zoning meeting tonight. Second. Second. Sorry, I mustn't have seen you on the first one. Okay, so before we begin tonight, here are the ground rules. Gardner, four
members out of five of the zoning board of appeals must pres present to conduct must be present present to conduct a legal hearing. Applications will normally be heard in the sequence in which they appear in the public notice. The board is under no obligation to
adhere to this sequence. All hearings shall be open to the public and no person shall be excluded unless he or she is considered to be a hindrance to the workings of the board. An applicant may appear in his or her own behalf or be represented by agent or
attorney. The applicant or his or her representative shall present the case to the board. Representatives of representatives of the city shall be heard. Abot to the property present shall be heard. Those in opposition to
the application shall be heard. The board must render decision regarding variance requests within 100 days after the application is duly filed in the office of the city clerk. The board regarding regarding special
permits must conduct a public hearing within 65 days after the application was duly filed in the office of the city clerk. The board must render render its decision regarding special permit within
90 days after the closing of the public hearing. All Ford members of the board must vote in favor of the variance of special permit for it to be granted and approved. The right to appeal the decision of this board is provided for
in chapter 4A of the zoning act. This information is available in the office of the city clerk. No variance of special permit or any extension, modification or renewal thereof shall take effect until notification from a city clerk that 20
days have elapsed after the decision has been filed in that office and no appeals have been filed and is recorded in the registry of deeds for the county or the district. The board requests that each person identify himself or herself as
name and address before addressing the board. Sitting on tonight's hearing and I already did that. So the meeting is going to be taped and videotaped. Does anyone object to the videotaping of this meeting? There's no
opposition. Okay. Okay, the first case 2022-01-01 continuing special permit Jonathan Mubachi and I believe it's attorney Christine Tree will be presenting chairman excuse me um the
building commissioner will be he was going to be present he excused himself he's on call but he left this document for for each member. Um, he told me to pass it around. [Applause] Please. Thank you.
[Applause] Attorney Tree, I'll read this. It's referencing Mr. Bombachi's case. Okay. So, I'll read it into the minutes after your presentation. Okay. Um I I don't know what that document is. Oh, you haven't seen it? No, you have not.
Mariel, you have no one. No. Um he only told me to submit it on his behalf. That's all. I'll read Mr. H. You can have this one. Thank you. Good evening. Okay. Good evening. Floor is yours. Thank you. Um board members,
attorney Christine Tree, 515 Main Street, Fitchburg, Mass. Uh representing the uh Jonathan Bach Kumbachi Simplified Management. Um so we're here on a review. Um and just I'm I'm going to be back and forth because um uh Miss Agron
has asked me to be in front of the microphone. I'm the one who talks about that. Um so I'm going to have to go back and forth when I change slides. Um a site visit was conducted in between the last two meetings um with certain board
members present. Um and uh the plan that was shown in April was discussed. Um this is the April plan uh in front of you. Um after and pursuant to the um
comments uh during the site plan, this plan was revised a little bit. I'm going to move to the next slide. So, in this revised plan, um the retaining wall at the top of the property has been moved closer to the
boundary line. Um this will add about 5,000 to the project. Um but as a result of this change um there is an additional space to
maneuver. Um and the additional space to maneuver is for that space number eight that is slightly diagonal at the top of the plan. The question which arose to me and I'm sure board members is why didn't we move
it all the way up to uh the line there is a tree there. Um the board members may have seen the difficult situation with the neighbor on that side. Christine, could I ask you a question before you go any further? Yes. Um Mr.
He mentioned at the site meeting that potentially he would extend the wall all the way out to the end instead of having it come in at that angle to go all the way out and to I guess there's a tree out there
somewhere that's connected. Is that still the plan or is it going to be this one? This is extended out as far as it go until it hits the tree. No, I'm talking in the other direction towards
uh the rear of the property. He had talked about extending the wall all the way to the end, right? And connecting it. So, it's no longer a j but it's it's a straight extra four feet or so. And
again, it's that's what he said. I don't this I asked this question. And the response is because of the tree, the neighbor and the tree prevents um just a straight line across the
boundary. Um it does add an like I said an additional space to maneuver in and back so that it is an easier uh use of that space at the top right the diagonal one. Um, ballards. I think that should
say ballards, not pallards. But, um, uh, safety poles will be added around the stairway, um, and the end of the stairway, uh, to prevent any issue with, um, inadvertent,
uh, contact with the vehicle. Um, this will give at least one space per unit on site. um as was the condition under the special permit. Um it uh improves the maneuvering situation
of that uh diagonal space at the top. Um and we have the plan for the off streetet parking at 307 Pine Street as well. Before you Well, you you probably have to zoom in for me, which I'm just trying
to get that dimension from the distance from the spaces over towards the uh the uh stairwell. 19 foot6 196. Thank you. Now, so what you have from maneuverable space, was that not a space
before? How did how did you gain space there in order to be able to back out of space 8 into where it's the purple where it says additional maneuverable space? Did you re readjust uh one through five
or six? No. No, there was no adjustment of one through six. This top area was never marked as a space um on all of the most recent plans. It
is just leftover space. Um and then again, that again is the April plan. It's leftover additional space. So that flat wall was moved closer to the top boundary line. Okay. So So do you know what that distance is from where space
one into that maneuver space to the actual retaining wall? It looks like half the the depth of the parking spot. Just go. Yeah, I was looking at my notes from questions. I don't have that
noted, but if I look I have the distance to the lot line. I didn't think about the width of that nonspace, but I would agree it appears to be about half the width. Yeah. So, so then the premise is someone pull into
parking spot eight and then hopefully utilize that space to turn and come back down. Yes. So, if I go
to the plan that was modified after the visit, that retaining wall at the top has been moved closer to the neighbor. So there is additional space for space number eight to back into that spot or pull in back out. I you know personally
I think I would pull into space 8 headon and when I left I would back out into the maneuvering space and then pull head first and out of the parking lot. All right, Christine, I want to revisit this again because when we were there on
Saturday, the tree that you're talking about was at the end uh of that line at the the very back of the parking lot. And what he had stated is he couldn't get a full parking space
in there because of the tree, but the tree was in the back. and he was saying that in order to get more maneuvering space, he was going to extend the wall all the way to the end. That's what he said. So, we do need some clarity. And we were all there to hear
that. And that jog that's in, you know, like this down this that was going to be pushed back. The tree he said he owns half the tree, so they don't want to cut it. But that would take that portion I'll say
where it's like six and three sevenths or whatever and then the end was that wall was going to move back so it'd almost be a straight wall right with well that's what he said straight
with no jog in it wherever you went has way more parking I know I just looked up my and better water we're going to have to look at that site and view it. Yeah.
So, let me bring this plane tickets. So, um with the updated plans before the site visit, there were two versions. This is one of them. Oh, you can't see that. I like this one better. I'd love I'd love to be able to give you
that one. Um All right. Yes. That's the one that he said that he was going to get. Yeah. It doesn't give him enough to put a space in there, but it widens that was that space, you know, so it gives him
more turning or maneuverability. But if you can't get a neighbor to agree to take down a tree, that might be an issue. No, the tree is at the very end. Okay. So my my goal for this proceeding
um is after this proceeding is over to submit a request for modification of the existing um special permit. And my goal is to get all of the comments, requests,
um opinions or or other thoughts on the plan um as we can today and then submit um and then there would be an actual proceeding on allowance or disallowance of a modification of the special permit.
Um, I looked at both of these plans and I also prefer this one because it's seven straight parking spaces on the back. Very easy. Right. Right. He he did say Mhm. that his seventh parking space he couldn't get because he
was short. That's why and he couldn't move the tree. Right. So, he was going to give up that parking spot and use it for maneuvering for the the other one. Right. And that's the way we left it on Saturday. And that's how we ended up
with the first plan that I showed you. Well, that Yeah, we just need some clarity there because Okay. that that doesn't that's not what he said. That's not what we were presented on Saturday. Okay. Yeah. And we asked him to come in with the most updated plan and that you
would have that information and he said he would take care of that. So, it's it's um from your viewing, you think that the tree is farther towards the back and that the jog could happen further towards the back allowing more space. He could take it all the way down
and not have the jog. Mhm. because I guess he got some push back from the contractors that putting the jog in is much more difficult than expanding out the vault that it would simply be the so
[Music] um what I'm going to ask that we do is I'm going to take that down as um the comment um and the that he either clarify um what he's going to do or the location
of the tree or how that issue is going to be resolved. Yes. Okay. The other thing he had mentioned too as kind of part of this was what he was going to do for the buddy parking. Mhm.
Um because he was going to elevate it a little bit and um what was the block he was going to put in at the end? I call it a Jersey Garrier, right? The Jersey uh barrier. And um he did
mention unfortunately that the neighbor there has his u support structure there and hasn't or doesn't want to move it. So, but he that was part of the plan, too, to have that
buddy parking uh squared away. Yeah. He was going to change the grade because you're familiar with it. It's like this. It is very steep. Very steep. So, he was going to put the barrier somewhere up here and or even here. And he's going to
back fill it to put and then lower so that it won't be in the decline that it is now. And it would be more well it be safer, more drivable if that's a word and allow
more maneuverability. But and I asked him to have all that on his plan. Mhm. So I don't see that there changes. Yep. No, I don't see that either, but adding that detail in is certainly something that can be done with the submission.
Um, I do know that there has been an issue with the scaffolding being over the property line. Um, and uh some requests to the city to assist in um citing the neighbor
for being over the property line. I know that sometimes that depending on what the issue is, sometimes it is the city's issue and sometimes it is not. Sometimes it's the subject of a a civil no trespass order and an order to remove um
but whatever needs to happen um the parking needs to be functional for this building. So if that's the way it needs to go, it needs to go. And I think he was also speaking about the relationship with the neighbor to the left, the
abandoned house. Yes. And the property line. he says to the best of his knowledge literally right goes up within inches of that house and that wall. So in my mind when he says in his opinion or his ability it go
excuse me goes up it best be certain where that property line is. Mhm. you know, because that could present new issues in the future if something happens and, you know, we want to prevent there's no safety issues.
uh there will be legal issues and so that needs to be clarified of exactly where that property line is cuz he was pretty adamant that I almost own that property that he's on but you can't work from that you need
to know where it is. So that can be resolved by having um a surveyor come out and stake those two areas. Perfect. Is there any other question or concern about um the 163 Pine Street plant?
Excuse me. About this plan. Is there any other question or concern? No. Okay. Do you have any question? No, I just want to start. No. And I would I would just suggest uh that
if you get a chance maybe drive by there. I did. You saw the buddy spot that driveway to the right of the house. Pretty significant. I don't know how people get out of that in which time. No.
Okay then. So, my board members have no, so I'll open it up and see if anybody has any questions. She are you finished? Um, I would just uh This was the 307 Pine Street offer. I know that the board has had um has
questioned whether or not this provides worthwhile parking to the lot. Um this uh is a modification from the previous plan in that the uh rear part seven parking spaces have been moved up a
little bit so that they are 5 ft off the property line. Um we did uh get a measurement um between the garage and the house and that was 30 ft.
Um and the moving of the spaces up from the bottom boundary line means they are a bit closer to the top boundary line. Um so they are not compliant at the top as far as that being considered an access
driveway. Um again I believe this was about 1,200 ft from the subject property. Um there was the offer to provide up to five parking spaces um either as overflow parking, emergency parking, consistent
parking dedicated to the use of 163 Pine Street um to be proposed uh through an easement um to run with each property. if this is worthwhile to the board members, if it adds to the viability of
the project, if it um provides a benefit to the residents of 163 165 Pine um and it is the uh tipping point which makes it an allowable project versus not an allowable project. The applicant
continues to be willing to offer this. Um this is a an abandoned two family structure. Um there is not going to be more than two units at this property. So there are not more than four spaces
required. Um two are in the garage in our existing. Um two would be in the back and then there are five more available. Christine, the biggest uh concern I've always had is the
proximity. We're talking, God, it's so at least a quarter of a mile or so away uh from uh 163. And to expect people to park there during a
snowstorm and then walk that far back and forth, uh I suspect would be challenging uh to enforce that. And I don't know how they would. Plus, I'm not sure what other options they'd have if they're not allowed on on street
parking. So, again, I'm just not convinced of the viability. And I think the an issue on top of what Mr. coordinates that is if you got if you have somebody who
has some kind of physical disability I'm not going to say you'll designate it as handicap but sometimes you saw I came in with a crush tonight because my left my right leg I would not want to walk a quarter mile of that
tonight. So, if you've got somebody that is not up to par and they have to walk from there either to or fro, that presents an issue, I think, in terms of is it the best option. I mean, unless
somebody that's parking behind the house wants to give up their space and will go there, I don't think that will happen. So, I mean, if they want to if you want to still present that or Mr. Babachi wants to present it. I'd ask that you put an
offer or here's a a proposal using 307 and here's what can happen and it can be either emergency parking or whatever offers but the main thrust is the parking deal and the permanent parking
it is um uh you know at 163 there would be each unit would have an assigned parking space with unit one having the two buddy parking spaces. Um, unit one, I think, was the unit that had the uh easy I'm not going to say it's qualifies
as accessible, but it was the easiest access unit. Um, and certainly uh we could consider um a provision like giving priority to any uh handicapped accessible uh residents to that unit one
in the buddy parking um and or the buddy parking. So, I mean that could be in your proposal and I'm I know I think we're putting everything on the table that we can here seeing what the issues are everything and I'll put it back on
the table and it was talked about is he does have one department vacant and we talked about going from 8 to 7 that would eliminate a lot of the parking issues now and that's I'm not saying he has to do that or whatever but it's an
option that's on the table has been discussed. So, it's still on the table. You know, he can make his final decision of what he wants to do, but it's not off the table. Mhm. I appreciate the comment. Um, and I just want to uh remind the
board that we had inquired into the Haywood Commons to see if perhaps that we could lease or um by a similar easement have parking spaces there. And the response was although they had excess parking, it was needed for emergency vehicles and they were not
willing um to make that arrangement. Unfortunate. Um but it's I I'm just trying to tell the board it's not an option that we can present at this time. Okay. I'll ask my members if they have any questions right at this point.
No, actually through your discussion some of them were answered as far as the regrading and Mr. H. Uh I think last time we looked at this there was the potential issue of uh the
there would be pre-existing nonconformity on that lot. Is that still the case on 307? Yes. So um there's pre-existing nonconforming um because the the lot is is non-conforming. So, the existing driveway
is non-conforming, but it's pre-existing non-conforming. Um, the creation of the new parking spaces, um, uh, we did say that, uh, as far as regular zoning setbacks, um, it's a pre-existing non-conforming lot, but with regards to
parking spaces, what we, uh, what the regulation says is 5T off, 5t off the boundary line, and we are 5T off on either side. Um, as to the um newly created parking
area with the seven spaces in the rear, the nonconforming portion of this is the access driveway at the top. Um, it is with the push back too narrow. Now, I can look at this and I can say, well, on
the beginning side where we have three spaces, it is conforming right there. And you pull straight into to that other space on the other side and the middle is conforming. Um the middle width is conforming. Um so I would make that
argument. That's the argument I would make. But I fully acknowledge that if you're looking at the back parking um the back parking that uh last space is uh too close to the boundary line as far
as an access driveway. up until the beginning of that space. It's time. So, there's no contour lines on this, but how's the topography on this? Does it drop quite severely on the back like further down Pine Street?
It drops in the back. It drops in the back. There's no topography lines for me to give you a measurement on that. It certainly does not drop as far as uh 163 does. 163 is like a cliff. It's significant.
Yeah. This this slopes towards the back. Yeah. Did anyone determine the amount of coverage you're going to have with impous material? No, but the limit is 85%. The limit is 85% on um a
residential property. Um this is not a multif family so it's not subject to the lower limit by looking what is uh green space it is the space behind the last parking spaces
um so I would say we're very close to having that 85% impervious space limit being Okay. So, if we were to um propose this as part and and I think we will as part
of the uh petition for modification um then we need to place that measurement on the plan. Um and if it if we're if we have 15% green space at the back, you know, we'll be okay. And if
not, we'll have we'll need to ask for relief on that. Um this proceeding um would ask for permission uh to modify the special permit at uh 163 165
Pine. There is the thought of whether we need to combine that with the relief, whatever it is that it needs for 307 pine if the parking is going to be created. Um, until this
property is taken, you know, it it it was an abandoned house. So, if there is any relief that is needed in order to resume it, um, we're going to have to ask for that relief at the same time. I would
think, you know, would you have to put in deed rightways and so on for access um, written into the deeds and so on so that this property is ever sold, those parking spaces basically are tied to
163. The easement uh deed is the form of right and it would run with the land. So it would have a benefited parcel and it would have a burdened parcel. The
benefited parcel is 163 pine. It gets something. So it gets the right of access. it gets those marked spaces and it gets um the promise of the owner of 307 Pine that it's going to maintain
that um parking lot and parking area. Um and we had talked at a prior meeting about what those conditions might be. Um including make making sure striping is maintained, removal of snow, salting or
sanding, um uh lighting maintenance, um regular access, maintain maintaining the property um as far as maintaining any cracks or anything in the pavement pavement to be kept in good condition. um and that right and any uh right for
reimbursement for that which was negotiated between the two properties. I know they're friendly now but you know they'll uh decide whether or not to include a reimbursement provision in there which seems reasonable. Um that would be embodied in an easement deed
which runs with the land which will go on public public record at the registry of deeds. It will bind all succeeding property owners of both properties until both property owners get together and uh agree to change it. And if they do, they
would violate the terms of the special permit unless they came back here. That's correct. And it is actually all in here. So what? There's a draft. Okay. You have any more questions? No. No,
David. Nope. Good questions. priority. All set. You're all set. Yep. Okay. All right. Um received the letter. Uh there's the letter. Um so, uh I'm going to note that
um the building issue that um has been blocking uh everything that's the second means of egress has been repaired, which is great. Um you mentioned now the second deans of egress and we talked about that new stairway in the back very
briefly but while we were there with Mr. Lombachi he says actually he's going to really try to prevent anybody using it and so if he is I mean then we have to know if he is going to definitely say
it's there but you can't use it and then it has to be signs designating I think non-usable or something that has to be you figured out what he's going to do but he said technically
He has some concerns, but he is going to try to prevent anybody using either egress or ingress. So, a second means of egress. Um, and again, this is, you know, really a
building code issue. Um, but if it's a second means of egress that are necessary, um, it could certainly be be labeled emergency use only. Um, but I don't think we could uh do anything to lock it or prevent somebody
from actually using it. Um, maybe put an alarm on it if used uh which does prevent people from using it in case unless an emergency is happening. Um, uh, but I don't think that would conflict with the building code. If it's marked as emergency use
only, etc., it's still available for use if need be. So I would like to read this letter from Mr. Zupa as being submitted now as part of this case and it's addressed to Ray Leon
chairman and board members gardener city hall room 1015 Pleasant Street go to Mass issue regarding 163 165 Pine Street update. Dear Mr. Chairman and board
members, I am writing to provide an update on the above reference property building permit B25-134 to repair and reconfigure the rear second means of egress received the
final passing inspection on May 13, 2025 and was closed out successfully. Permit B22-107 has not received the final inspection as all special permit violations must be satisi satisfied for
this permit to be closed out. B24-717 is the building permit associated with the re relocation of the retaining wall. This work has not yet begun and no inspections have been
performed. IC-24-43 and TCO-24-9 expired on May 20th, 2025. New certificates have not yet been applied for and reinspections of the interior means egress
violations have not taken place. sincerely or respectfully submitted Thomas Zupa, building commissioner or zoning enforcement officer. So I mean there's still some open items and I mean that's been go ongoing but this is it
shows that a lot of them have been corrected and closed. There's still several here that need to be addressed and taken care of. Absolutely. The primary one we can't take care of until this is resolved. um the primary building permit because the special
permit conditions must be satisfied. Um but today was the expiration date I see on the temporary certificates of occupancy. So what we'll do is have um uh the owner apply for an extension of those.
And I think uh we've mentioned it before, but uh before the board votes on this project, we will request from the building commissioner a letter similar to this that's saying all open issues
have been satisfied no outstanding inspections, certificates or whatever. So it'd be a clean bill of health. Yeah. Who would last that for Mr. Zupa? Just thinking about the timing of that.
Um, we would want the vote to approve or deny a um modification of the special permit before we begin construction of that revised wall, which means the parking um will not yet be in existence.
will have to pull a new building permit for that wall that will have to be constructed and inspected. Um, so at the time the vote on modification takes place, we're still going to have this outstanding issue.
Let me address that. This is my thought. that will be an outstanding issue because that you don't want to invest the funds to get all that done and if the board votes no it's not a good investment
but we would like to see a signed contract from the contractor who's going to construct a new wall a quote for the price and so really everything is sign
I'll call sign seal build and delivered except for the work but we have the document says and we need a start date and a tenative uh finish date and then the final inspection once it's in Mr. Zupa can
conduct the final inspection. But if that doesn't happen, that's what negates the whole thing, right? So, you know, I that's the closest we can get to having or requiring the applicant say build it before we look at it. I think gives him
the opportunity to get all the documents in place, signed and then ready to go if the board votes in favor. If not, then you know it's another effort. But I think that's how I would like to approach it and
that's what I would suggest and recommend recommend that as a condition if the board is going to go for. Okay. Thank you. I appreciate the comments. Hopefully you've written them all down. You know, and I'm looking at the
audience here and I don't see anybody here that's really associated with 163 165 Pine L. Is anyone here concerned or associated with 163 165 Pine Street? There is no one. So, I'm not
going to go through the litany, you know, and opening it up. It's then we'll move on to another case or let you finish up if you need to finish. Uh, no. I would just ask that um I I think the appropriate procedure because we are in
a review proceeding is to continue the review without a finding at this point in time pending um submission of an application for a modification of the existing special permit. Don't hear that. We're going to make
federal continuance to keep going. I will make a motion to continue this case. I have a second. Second. Okay. All in favor? I I opposed. No opposition. Continue
to June. Does that fit into your calendar? My calendar is unfortunately busy all the time. I do hold open a place for this board specifically every month. If for some reason June doesn't work out uh getting
at last right now, we can have the option to go to July if need be. So that's really a modification to your motion. So it'll either be June or July and you'll submit documentation that will tell us which one is ready to
go. Very good. Okay. All those in favor of allowing for that extension for July if need be. Hi. Hi. Okay. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you, board members. Thank you, Attorney Tree.
She's not going very far. Up next, attorney. Oh, let me see who you see. That's what I understand. Okay. I just want to make sure that's who knows.
Okay. The next case before the board is case number 2024-09-3. It's a continuent special permit. It's BCF Investment LLC, 75 Oak Street.
change a two family to a three family dwelling. Attorney Tree, are you the agent or representative for VCF? I am BCF Investments as well as you may begin. Thank you. Thank you, Mr.
Chair. Um, it has been some time before we have spoken substantively on this case. We have been looking uh for a parking plan to be redesigned. Um following some comments from board members, some comments from Mr. Lean,
the engineering department. Um that uh revised plan um has been submitted to you. Um I wanted to review a little bit about the property and the project and then talk about the plan and
unfortunately I will be again happy So, this was an abandoned three family property that was purchased by my client. Um, it was renovated. It had an existing driveway along the left hand side, very long driveway. Um we had come
to the board in 2021 looking to um get a special permit to uh have it again reinstated as a three family. Um that ended up being uh withdrawn without prejudice. Again, we were looking at what would the parking be um and the
renovation was successfully completed um and put into use as a two family which is allowed by right. Um the third floor has been renovated but is not in use. It does not have certain kitchen components so it's not usable as dwelling
unit. This is the exterior after renovation proof. Do you want to look at this? It's got my name. We are smacked out in the middle of the GR3 district. Um, so this is in a
district uh where three families are allowed by a special permit. And as you can see, Oak Street, um, which I know is very, uh, familiar to the chair and other members, um, is a mixeduse, uh, neighborhood. It has 73
families. There are a number of, uh, very similar, almost identical buildings going up the right hand side of the street. This is one of them. Um, there are five single family dwellings um, in the same area. And then we have four
multi or two family dwellings and two commercial buildings. So there's a number of various uses. Um and as far as the use goes, which I don't think is under much contention in the board with the board, it's a use that is appropriate to the neighborhood and
consistent with not only its historical use, but other uses in the neighborhood. Um this was the plot plan. Um the survey that was originally recorded. Um you can see Oak Street on the left. On the top
is the driveway. Um and the uh property has remained uh without change in the boundaries since it was uh built. Um I will note for board members who have not visited it, there is
a very tall um ledge outcropping in the back of the property which makes it um pretty much a a scoop by the back of the property between the building and um the rock ledge. If I understand that ledge
actually pretty much extends that whole side of Oak Street going down the back. Yes. And um so this is a property and and there are some properties um in the neighborhood can who can make a little use of that backyard. Um but this one
could not without uh a major construction equipment that is not going to fit back there. We have given some um examples of other parking arrangements um with the other multif family dwellings in the
neighborhood. Again, there are a number of buildings that seem to be built at the same time. They all have this long driveway on the left. And here's some similar ones. The one on the far right is the subject property. And that's an example of the
out property behind the behind the house. The key focus in this application has been the parking. Um, so in order to add the third unit, we were attempting to add at two spaces um to the
right-hand side of the property. Um, and I'm just going to note uh this would make um approximately five spaces on the property. Three cars can fit in the long existing driveway on the left. Um, and
we're proposing to add two spaces on the right. Um there are there is discretionary and non-discretionary provisions within the zoning ordinance for this. This is a change of use for a pre-existing
non-conforming building. Um and with that change um then nondiscretionarily in other words set out in the ordinance the only thing that can be requested is the additional parking needed for the
change in use. um not going back and looking at the whole building and requiring six spaces, only two more for the one additional unit. So now what I'm reading up there, it's talking about non-conforming uses, not necessarily a non-conforming structure. You you said
that you're relying on a non-conforming structure. I did. Let me just pull out the ordinance for a moment and look look at it again. But I will say that um you know if we're looking at a non
use um this is this is a use with a insufficient lot area that has existed since prior to zoning and then was abandoned. So it's it's Um, I'm just going to read and I think I
did print it out directly there for all zoning districts except con one a change in use where the existing use or in the case of a vacancy the next
previous use which does not apply at this time. So the existing use is a two family did not provide for the number of on-site parking spaces required by this chapter. Then the proposed use shall only have to provide an additional
number of parking spaces equal to the increase if any between the number required under this chapter for the existing use and the number required for the proposed use. So, I did I did state pre-existing, but the regulation the
ordinance itself does not. It only refers to a change of use from an existing use to a new use. But I thank Mr. Hanks um as always for making me more me be more precise with my language. I appreciate that.
Christine, the uh originally the when you you came in You were talking about putting the parking spaces in front of the house. Yeah. And now we're talking about buddy parking to the right. So we came in with a plan from McKenzie
um that depicted them on the right but uh two on the right side by side. Oh and and so it came kind of in front. Yes. Okay. So you're not talking buddy parking. It's two two spaces. That was
the McKenzie proposal. McKenzie did not wish to do the engineered plan, so we went to needs um LLC and so that was the new plan that was circulated to you today. And that does show buddy parking. That's what I thought. Now to the right
of the property is it's a very you're getting really close to the property boundary. So I don't think you can maintain the five feet. No, I don't think we can either. So, we're talking about some relief on that area also.
Yes, there is an existing um retaining wall between this property and the the driveway next door which is also closer than 5 ft. Um because everything's closed. Yes. Yes. So, is it going to be
side by side or is it going to be on the right side? Is it side by side or is it going to be buddy parking? Buddy. And why don't I switch to that slide so you can see which actually takes it away from the road frontage.
Okay. So this is the whole plan um there except for the engineering stamps on the right. Um, and I do have one which is a little closer up. So, I'm going to switch to that so we can see it more directly. How close is it to the
house? I don't see that measurement on here. No, I don't see that measurement either. There are um boulders depicted on the left hand side of the property as a barrier in between the driveway and the house. Um but that measurement between
the driveway and the house is not depicted. It should be. So for um again thinking about what is the board going to do with this proceeding
um this needs plan um has been sent uh to Mr. Oliva for comment. um he has not had sufficient time to make comment back, but I imagine the board would want to see that comment. Um I think there's some further measurements that should be
depicted on this plan as well. Um and I'd be happy to go through those. Um but I I think the the point of today is we've gotten to the point where we have a draft plan proposing parking. Um
and we're welcoming any board comment on that draft plan. Um, as far as what I see as deficiencies in measurement, um, the measurement between the driveway and the lot boundary on the right hand side, the measurement between the
driveway and the house on the left hand side, I do believe those are intended to be uh depicted as dimensionally length parking spaces, but the width is depicted and not the length of 18 ft.
So that should be added in the How's that retaining wall actually on the property line? Do we know that this was um a plan that was prepared as a result of an onsite
measurement and I believe that the um line to the right of the dark wall is the actual boundary line. But that's also something that should be marked on the plan. It was never clear to me who who actually owned
the retaining wall. Sometimes retaining walls are dyed by both parties because they straddle the boundary and then both parties have an obligation to maintain them which usually ends up in multiple problems.
That's going to put a driveway that close to the retaining wall. Mhm. So the the purpose is to slope up um and you can see on the bottom right the max
slope is 1 to 12. Um the board had requested topography lines be marked on the plan. They are marked on the plan. Those are 1 foot increments um from my reading of those measurements. So that there is um over from the back to the front I believe
it's 4 foot drop alto together um so a portion of that would be removed in smoothing the grade um and the um a portion of the uh existing
sidewalks um would need to be removed. Now, if you look at the um sidewalks, and I do have a couple of pictures that I'll show. Um there is already a slope of the sidewalk for accessibility
purposes. It towards the driveway on the right se right side property and then it is uh there's an open curb cut there um for the existing driveway. Um this uh we
would need to uh a sloped um sidewalk in front of the driveway out so that it is flat. And then we would have to also replace or reslope the sidewalk on the on at least the left hand side for
handicapped accessibility where it's already flat in front of the driveway on the right. We would not need to slope again on that side. It can remain flat. Would you also
How many variances do you think you require here? Two. What I think we need um and this is a special permit um relief from parking regulations. Um and that was on the previous slide. So I can go back to that in a moment.
Well, my question is you can't get the the distance between two driveways on a single property. Would that fall under the special permit? the special is that a variance the special permit allows relief from parking regulations is what
it allows and um so our our nonconformities as far as I know are we don't we don't have five feet from the property line most likely on
the right hand side um and we had this little debate about what is a parking space and what is an access driveway last time we were Um but uh if we're asking for one relief, we might as well ask for another. And that is given where the
property line is, it seems to cut into the front yard um uh relief from the 5- foot uh requirement set back from the front boundary line. Have Have you had any feedback
about the curb cut? I had a meeting with Mr. Leva um initially and uh so that was in the fall. He was kind enough to meet with me. Um his initial response was he didn't he didn't want um any of the
sidewalks uh removed because um apparently they are newer. Um and he was concerned about the uh sloping of the uh sidewalks on either side. Um he additionally has some concern about drainage but that is a city-wide concern
about the capacity of the drainage system. Um and one of the things discussed as a possible condition is using permeable pavement. Um I did discuss that with him and he thought it would be a favorable way to address drainage. Um he did want to make sure
that we stuck to the specifications as required in the DPW driveway permits. Um and uh you know this uh plan is apparently what uh he would require for that process. We had a
discussion about whether or not we would need relief for uh this being a second driveway. Um so that is the other issue. Um, and while while we can have um, you
know, a lot of fun debating the way terminology is set forth in the zoning ordinance, we're in for a penny, in for a pound. I would I would again state that's a parking regulation um, that can be modified or relief can be granted
under special permit. I'd be happy to go back to that portion of the ordinance if you would like to examine that issue. Um, so Christine, did so did Oliver say that he he would be in favor of a curb
cut or not? I mean, you talked about drainage and the sidewalk, but I didn't hear you say specifically about the curb cut. Is there a letter? He was concerned about the relief being granted on the setbacks in the second driveway. He was
concerned in general about the drainage and about the sidewalks and accessibility. He wanted to make sure that those conditions had been met. I don't want to speak for him. Um and I think that he needs a plan to look at and say yes, this would be okay if the
board grants relief or no, it's not. Um I will say again, um I I had given that email to the board uh previously back from him. The initial email was uh had a lot of concerns. Um after the discussion
in particularly the drainage issue and the sidewalk issue, um Mr. Oliva was less concerned. Um but I don't want to stand here and speak for him. Um so I'll go back to that special permit issue. So while you're there, could you just zoom in on that so I can
read the contours, please? Um, I think the prior one has the markings of the contours more. So, I think the other one was clearer. I'll go to the other one, please. Yeah, it has a marking on it.
So that's 1087. So 1085 1087. So that's a twopoint drop on those on that fold the wall. So we have 1087 up here. 1086 at the top. Yeah. 1085.
Um so the the dashed lines are um one increments. Yeah, I'm trying to I think down at the bottom here it's cut off. So just a comment I would would the if we were to lean towards this one yeah
we're going to be in favor of doing a better solution than trying to place boulders on that because that's not really going to be a you know two three foot tall boulders that sitting on an embankment they're going to tend to slide
off. just a comment. So, a question on boulder stability and is there another option such as a retaining wall? No. Anything else before I move from this
slide? So, when when you have like I've been by there and they have the stone wall in the middle Is that what you're referring to as the existing retaining wall to hold because
you're going to be digging into the Yes. the hill? Yes. So, what's going to be holding back all that soil when you dig in? Are you going to have a a retaining wall to hold it back or there's an existing
retaining wall on the right which is the dark dark line and um it would if one side is removing material that supports the wall they have the obligation to provide additional support to make sure
the integrity of the wall is maintained. If it's a party wall shared by both sides, then reinforcement as necessary to replace the reinforcement of the earth that is removed, okay, would need to be um added on on the retaining wall
unless the neighbor agreed to take the whole thing down. And is the same thing going to be true for the uh I'll say the side by the the house because you could have the same
situation if there is a um height that is sufficient um then we would need sufficient reinforcement. Um and Mr. Hank's comment I think goes directly to that point. Are the boulders sufficient reinforcement
um to retain the earth on that side so that it's stable soil abudding the driveway? Well, my concern is if you start adding inches or feet to it, is that now going to cause your 10 feet to be
narrower? Um, so could it be actually affecting the driveway or body parking in whichever way we're looking at it? So if reinforcement on the right hand side
um were needed um I I could uh I'm and I'm only guessing here more space might be needed but um 9 by8 is the size. So we do have an extra foot in width to play with. I'm going to go back to Mr. Hank's
comment about the boulders along the left side. Mhm. Those boulders I'm going to try to walk myself through this so you can help me. They're just going to be placed there. Are they going to be on any permanent
foundation or will they be you know the site prepared then the boulders being placed there and one is how big are these boulders going to be? Well they there's a contour change of 2 to 3 ft. So you're talking some serious boulders
number one to try and get there and and I'm looking if the boulders are going to abut each other. Mhm. That's what's depicted on the plan. There'll be a budding. I I imagine there might be a couple inches between. Yes. My concern
is with nature, with water, rain, ice, snow can start to move those boulders and now we have a problem especially like he mentioned one could roll out. So there's nothing proposed or that you
have mentioned that are going to somehow connect these boulders together. So then they're all independent. Mhm. And I mean that could be rolling into the driveway. We know what winter does with water and
ice and everything. It tends to move stuff. So I mean that would be my concern of how do you solidify that bolder wall? You know, is a bolder wall the
best way? I'm not a contractor, but maybe a a permanent retaining wall. You know, you're not going to move that. And it's going to be, you know, it's going to have a base that's going to be solid and
solidified and it replaces those boulders which technically could move. You know, in a couple years, one boulder is not going to be where it was a few years ago. Mhm. and they're not going to be that easy to move.
That's sort of the theory thought you Well, that's my concern. I've played with boulders and they they don't stay in place. Yeah. Plus, any rain will wash away dirt. Mhm. And then can dislodge a
boulder. So, maybe a boulder wall is not the best alternative. and make that comment and address that with the engineer. I am sure Mr. Oliva will have a comment on that issue as well. Um so it is buddy parking um but
again this is for the third floor unit. So it is for one unit um who should be able to manage um tandem parking between each other. Um really I I don't think there's any
more to the plan than that for now. I do have some views of the street looking up and [Music] down. So this is a straight on of the proposed parking area and you can see that the street slopes as well as that
retaining wall. Are they going to I was thinking of uh with the snow how are they going to handle the snow removal for that area? I'm because I'm not sure what it at the far
end. Snow removal will be pushed to the back and the snow storage area should be marked on the plan but simply pushed straight back. Not seeing what is the depth from the building to that big ledge.
I believe it's um so the boundary line for the property running back I believe is 90 ft. 90 ft plus or minus an inch on either side. Um and looking at the plan and uh thinking
again of the pictures that we saw, I would say that um 3/4 of the space behind the house is occupied by the ledge. These are views um pulling out of the proposed parking area. So, what
would a car see? Looking out upon the street, looking to the right, looking to the left, and looking straight ahead. These are the pedestrian views um looking up and down the street. So, the view here is unobstructed. It's
particularly unobstructed because we did uh remove a tree, a very large tree that was in the middle of the parking area. Um so a pedestrian is going to have a clear view of any um car exiting or entering this proposed space. I will um go back to address the
special permit provision if there's um no other questions on this portion. I just want to jump back to snow with David's question and you said it'll be pushed to the back. There's got to be a point that you only
can push so much to the back. You know, it starts. We've had storms that maybe you end up with a couple of feet pushed back and other storms and I only think of this because I was looking at some pictures the other day and my friend was
with me and we were standing next to the snow that had been pushed back in my yard and it came to the top of his head. You know, he's probably about 510, but that's a lot of snow, you know, and then that's a lot of runoff. So, have they considered if there's so
much snow that's pushed back there at a certain point it gets hauled out? So, we could certainly um consider that as a provision or a condition, but I will say that the end of the last buddy parking space only extends half the
depth of the house. So that there is definitively half the depth of the house remaining um before you would put any ledge. That would seem sufficient most of the time for snow. Thank you.
Attorney Tree, is that a bulkhead on the side of the house where the driveway is being proposed? Okay. And there's sufficient room to get by that to push the snow. Um I'm going to say yes. Again, this is supposed to be an on-site measured dimensional plan. Okay. Um, and
it the 10-ft width certainly does extend into the bulkhead. Um, but just a little a little bit. Um, there's certainly more space on the other side. I'm going to return to the special
permit slide. Okay. So, we're at 7:40 A2. So, we have a provision allowing relief from parking regulations um either by special permit from the
zoning boards of appeals um and then what you don't see is paragraph B from the planning board. So, the ZBA um may allow uh relief from parking regulations. Um, and I'm looking at A2
in the case from one conforming use to another conforming use, which once a special permit is issued for a three family, this would be conforming that the lack of parking spaces will not create undue congestion or traffic hazards on or off the site. Um, and I'm
going to p point back up to the beginning of this section saying relief from parking regulations may be granted. Um, so when I see parking regulations, um, to me that refers to the entirety of
the off-site parking section, including the provisions regarding having a second driveway and being five feet or less from the property line. um that is the basis on which I see this as special
permit. Okay. All right. Um we had submitted uh written responses to the special permit criteria um and had gone through them at a prior meeting. Um, I don't I I'm going to
guess that the board wants to see um the final markings um the responses on the questions that it asked and a response from Mr. Oliva before it's ready to proceed to a vote on this case.
Um so I think my presentation is done but I'm happy to answer any other questions. I'm good. Good. Are you good? Yes. Good. Feel good. Where's the pants? Um, so just to follow up. So if you go to the buddy parking spot, you're going to
need a required would be required variance for that pipe or were we just saying that because we we're granted that authority under relief and parking based on that provision. So
um let me say that uh I find um gardener zoning ordinance um challenging on parking at times. There is no definition of a parking space and there is no definition uh or provision that says parking cannot be
tandem um or buddy. Um but but typically if a bylaw is silent that usually means it's deemed prohibited. Just because it doesn't say it you usually a bylaw ordinance in our case defines what is allowed and usually if it's silent that
usually means it's not allowed right. Um and that provision applies to uses in the table of uses. Um, parking is certainly a use that's allowed within Gardener and um, we certainly have a
thing called a parking space because we all use them, but we don't have a definition of what a parking space is. And without having a definition that says it is only side by side or you can't have tandem or if you have one
before the other, you have to get a variance or a special permit. With zero definition of what a parking space is, but the word used rampantly throughout the ordinance, I would not say that this is a situation where you have something
um that is a use that's not defined. Um, I would say that this is a a structure that is not um described other than its ordinary
words in the ordinance. And when we have ordinary words, they're given ordinary meaning. Um, these are spaces where people park their automobiles. Um the fact that they happen to be one in front of the other is not prohibited
or allowed by the ordinance. Neither it has it is silent on the matter. But typically the lack of a definition you can go to any other you can go Miriam Webster and say look up what the definition of parking space is and it may say parking for a single vehicle or it may say I don't know. I've never
looked it up. Y but that's usually the way it goes if if your bylaw ordinance is silent on a definition. Correct. Right. And and I am sure but I will I will certainly go ahead and and pull it if if um we want to look at it. The
definition of a parking space is an area where a motor vehicle is parked and a buddy space meets that definition. Thank you. Yeah. I do um you know know that there's several revisions underway in the ordinance and I do hope in the
future um that the parking regulations are a little uh revised so that we at one point in time had a a discussion over you know whether it was a multiple or a plural structure and this um in
front and in back of the building parking space provision that's in there. Um, I I think it's needlessly confusing for applicants. I don't think they benefit the city particularly in the way that they're drawn and I do hope that
they're revised so that uh everything's clearer moving forward. So, so, so my questions and comments weren't necessarily as a negative things. I'm just trying to wrap my head around what you said as we get to that parking regulations are challenging and I'm just trying to wrap my head around where are
we at with this and what relief would be required and what can be granted. I'm just trying to absolutely um and I you
know I have the benefit of the burden of being here for two cases today. One of which uh the prior one had buddy parking allowed um without any specific mention and I certainly I was not involved in the initial allowance of that case. I don't know if the issue was discussed on
whether buddy parking was allowed or not allowed, but certainly it's happened um with permission under the city's um viewpoint. And so if this board does reach a determination that buddy parking is not allowed under the ordinance, then I would ask for the relief that in this
case it be allowed by that special permit provision. So that that would be something that you're going to be asking for as part of the relief. Is that So do do a buddy parking or you saying that because lack of addition lack of
definition you believe it could be by right without asking for a special I do I think these are just two parking spaces they're two parking spaces um and they happen to be one in front of the other
thank you Mr. Thanks. Any other question, David? No. Well, I just want to add one other more of a comment than a question. Um, I'm assuming that those two spaces would be determined for a single unit
and not shared across multiple units. No, they would be solely for the third floor unit. Okay. And do we mark? We can mark. Oh, I'm done. She's like, thank God.
I do love a discussion about the dictionary, but I would like to go home today and so would you. I want to keep you as long as I have to be here. Lori, any questions from you? I'm good. Okay. Will you be presenting another
plan updating or showing the actual what's going to happen? There's a couple issues I think talking about the rocks, the boulders, and things like that. Yes. So I think you know what's out there on the table can be pretty much wrapped up
in the next meeting that you know we've gone over you're going to look at what happens about the curb cut the sidewalk the boulders if there's going to be any changes you know and the retaining wall and the retaining wall structure of the retaining wall
and the dimensions distances the missing dimensions on here. Yes. Um, those are pretty much the open items right now. Mhm. Mr. Chair, would you like to ask the audience if there's anybody here for this? I'm going to. Okay.
All right. Any further questions from my members? No. No. Okay. So, now are there any butters to the property who would like to speak in favor of this application? Any others to the property?
Who would like to speak in favor of? Are there any absorters who would like to speak in opposition to this application? Any absor like to speak in opposition to this application? Is there anyone that has any comments regarding this application
either for or against? I know there's no city officials in here, so I haven't called for city officials, but in case there's one I can't see, is there any city officials who would like to speak regarding this application?
None. Okay. Any further comments? No. Um, I look forward to seeing board members in June. Members, the last shot. I'm good. Seriously, good. Okay. Do we need to make a motion to continue? Continuence.
Yes. All right. So, attorney tree, I'm sure you're going to request a continuence on this one. So you can provide all the open answers to the open items. I would request a continuence to the June meeting um where my client has
paid several continuences fees. I would ask that this one and this one only be waved. Charge a fee 150. I' I've paid it several times. Yes.
Wow. So, I missed part of it, but when would you like the continuence? June meeting, please. Yes, sir. Do do we have the ability to wave a fee? To wave a fee? Yeah. Yes. She says she pays $150 every time. She
can That is correct. Well, she was asking if we would wave it. Normally, we didn't. We don't. You've done enough presentations and extensions. You will get one exemp
exemption for the June one. Thank you, Mr. Chair. If it needs to go beyond, then the fee schedule will be back in. So, do we need to make a motion to that effect to continue? If make it I make a motion that we wave the continuation fee
for 75 street. Second. Second. Any discussion? Just one time. Right. Just for one time. Just one time. Any discussion? None. Okay. All those in favor? I
Okay. The next motion is to continue this case to the June meeting. So second. Okay. Any further discussion? None. All in favor? I opposed. June
meeting. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you, board members. I hope you all have a great day. You too. Happy Memorial Day. Take Monday off. Easter. Should be fun. Lots of ring. Where's the barbecue?
He's taking two years ago and we had to see. Okay. You ever need any more slate? I have some in my yard. speed this thing up. Is everybody getting up? I thought you
were all leaving. Thank you again. Good night. Good night. Bye. Okay, next case. I'll call it, but Dave's coming back. Yeah, this case 2025-04-01. It's a continuence special
permit Stevens S0 Emerald Street partial ID M22-25-5 construct two multifamily dwellings. This will let the board know. Appreciate your time tonight. I'm Steven petitioner and Mr. Procker from Den Roy
and he'll be your presenter, your agent until you need to talk to me. Okay. Thank you. The floor is yours, sir. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, members of the board. Uh, for the record, Ryan Proctor with Dillis Roy Civil Design Group in Lunberg. Um, also for the record, this is a continuence, but I believe there
was a legal ad um and we're for the previous hearings. So, we're essentially treating this as the opening first time they're presenting the project as a whole. Uh the project as was written into the record is the construction of two multifamily dwellings at uh zero Emerald Street. Uh each structure would
contain three units for a total of six units. Subsequent uh to filing with your board, we have also filed a site plan review application with the planning board and we are currently working through that process with them. Now we opened the public hearing with the planning board in April and received a
memo from the engineering department which we responded to since that meeting. and we revised documents, a response letter, and revised site plans, which I sent to Mariela last week. So, the latest plans that you have are the plan that's on that poster board and the
ones I will be discussing tonight. During the uh site plan review process, we received that memo uh from the engineering department. There were several comments uh primarily geared towards the drainage, the overall site layout of the lot with respect to the
lot area, frontage, the building locations, building footprints, all has remained the same since the initial submission with your board. As part of the planning board process, we are proposing to consolidate two lots uh zero Emerald Street and there is an additional parcel on the northern side of that lot that will be
consolidated and separated into two conforming lots with your zoning ordinance such that we can put one structure on each of those two new lots that we'd be creating on the zero emerald street parcel. Can you go that again? You talked about single double and joining. I I can. So
yeah, please. Yep. So the The parcel on Emerald Street is proposed to be subdivided into two separate lots, each of which would contain one of the new multif family structures. So, you have one structure per lot. And each of those two lots would be conforming to your uh
zoning. If you're separate, excuse me, if you're separating the lot, you're not creating any non-conforming lots, are you? We're not. No. Okay. I'm just clarifying for sure. Yep. Um, additionally, the structures that we're proposing are also conforming to
your uh zoning uh setback requirements with front uh with the front yard, sideyard, and and rear yard setback as well as lot coverage. Each unit we're proposing to access with a individual driveway. Uh each lot each unit, excuse me, will have a onecar garage and will
provide additional off- streetet parking within that driveway. One of the comments that we received from uh Rob Oliva, the city engineer, was relative to restoring the existing sidewalk within Emerald Street. So, we are proposing to do that uh between and
alongside the proposed curb cuts that we have. Each unit will have its own municipal water and sewer connection. That was again a comment from the city engineer that they have their separate utility connection. So, we are proposing that and that has been reflected on the revised plan.
Lastly, with respect to storm water generated with the development, we are proposing a network of roof drains and yardage drains within the site such that we are capturing runoff from all the impervious area on the site. So, all of the driveways and all the proposed roof areas and routing those to a subsurface
infiltration structure which is on the lower right corner of the plan that will all be contained and stored on site to provide storage of that runoff generated from the property. Is that excuse me the gray area to the bottom middle to the
left? Yes. Is that sidewalk? Retain. Okay. So the definitely Yeah. So it's it's just for board members that are not familiar. It's a steep site that drops. It's level off the road, but then it does drop down
pretty steeply towards Tinky Boulevard to the east. How are you going to handle the drainage coming off of there? So we have uh roof drains for for the impervious areas. We have roof drains and gutter systems for both units and that would be routed via catch basin and drainage manholes to that subsurface
system. So you minimize or prevent drainage down into uh Tiffany Boulevard. Yes. Yes. And and part of the site plan review process is we did prepare and submit a storm water report that documents the off-site runoff is reduced
as a result of this proposed project um by capturing the impervious in that system. I think that's all I'll say about the plan for now. Um along with the site plan, I did submit an application narrative that speaks to the special permit criteria. Um would the board appreciate if I went down those
nine criteria? Okay. Would you like me to read them verbatim or should I sum or summarize? Say that again. Should I read the my responses uh verbatim for the record or or we've got people in the audience who
have not are not familiar with them. Yep. I mean you don't you can highlight them I think and condense it a little. Okay. And then give your response. I will do my best. Thank you. Uh so there are there are nine criteria for the special permit um application. The first
is uh the proposal shall be suitably located in the neighborhood in which it is proposed and where the entire city shall be compatible with the neighborhood character, existing uses and other uses permitted by right in the same district. So we are here seeking a special permit for the multifamily use
of the property. Uh we are in the GR3 residential uh zoning district which the multifamily is allowed by special granting of the special permit and the lot is surrounded by residential uses only. Um, so we feel that's an appropriate use for this area. I have a
question, please. This is more of it's giving some background on Emerald Street. How many single family homes are on Emerald Street and how many multif family homes are on Emerald Street? So, I don't have it printed. I did submit a
lot locus or I think from the city GIS that has the the breakdown. I think there is a variety of single Yeah, it's probably pretty evenly distributed, but There are a significant number of multifamilies. That's right. And more than probably there more than three
families probably in there also. So, all right. Go ahead. Thank you. Proceed. Uh, so that was the first criteria. The second one, the proposal shall provide convenient and safe vehicular and pedestrian movement within the site and in relation to adjacent streets, property, and improvements. So again, we
are providing adequate off- streetet parking for these uh so that we are not uh requiring the users or tenants of the facility to park on the street with the garage space and two off streetet parking. And we are proposing to maintain the sidewalk within Emerald Street. And can you just point out the
sidewalk for me on that? So existing sidewalk, the curb is this double dash line here. Okay. And then the sidewalk would cut through just on the apron of the driveway. Is there an existing sidewalk? It's heavily deteriorated, but yes. Now that
leads into my next question. That's you answer. What is your plan regarding that sidewalk restoration? Yeah. So, so you're going to restore it to city? We are. Yeah. That was a a safe and a safe and you know get rid of
deterioration cuz water and everything's short. So it be just like a brand new sidewalk through there. Exactly. You going to go all the way down Emerald Street? Absolutely not. I would say state your name and address, please. Steven Center.
Where do you live? Oh, Fitzroy, Massachusetts. Okay. No more. Go ahead. Fire. So basically, you know, the sidewalks, even though there's a section in the middle of the two lots that we wouldn't touch for construction, the intent is to replace
that sidewalk in the entire a continuous sidewalk. Correct. Property line property. Yeah. So you're not isolating the two parcels. So you'll be able to walk from A to B and B to A. Yes, sir. Okay. Now, how what is the
distance from the sidewalk to the the garage for example? It's the length of the driveways just about 40 ft. We're we're 30 ft off the front property line roughly with the units 35 ft probably. Um I'll continue with the special permit
criteria. The third item is the proposal shall provide adequate space for off- streetet parking, loading and unloading of vehicles, all goods, products, materials and equipment incidental to normal operation, establishment or use. Again, it's a residential proposed use. We are providing off street parking with the garage space per unit and then
within the driveway as well. The fourth criteria, the proposal shall provide adequate and appropriate facilities and utilities for proper operation of the proposed use and disposal of sewage, refues or other waste products and methods of drainage or surface water. I spoke to this in my
opening remarks, but uh we are providing a storm water system that will be contained on site to capture and uh capture and infiltrate that storm water generated from the property. We'll have the municipal water and sewer connections that will all be within Emerald Street for each unit. The fifth criteria, the proposal
shall not constitute uh any nuisance due to air, water pollution, erosion, flood, noise, odor, dust, vibrations, lights, or visually offensive structures or sight features. So, in addition to the structures, the entire light green area that you see is all proposed to be grass
area. Um, currently the site is wooded currently, but it is very uh dense vines. Uh, it's pretty tough to walk through. It was out a couple weeks ago. Um, so we are intending to restore quite a bit of green space in excess of what's required for the open space. um calculation
question because of the nature of the property and I'm not sure what the final is going to look like in terms of because I know how steep it is and everything but you're going to have water coming off the roofs of those buildings. How are you going to direct
that water? Are you going to direct it away from the other buildings down towards Tony or in the front? You know, because you're talking in the winter, you're going to have a lot of snow and ice and melting. Everything will be
captured in gutters in a in a rain system. So, it's all it's all captured. There's no discharge on the surface. Okay. So, when it discharges from the the gutters, which direction of the of the discharge? So, are the gutters
pointing towards Tony? So, forces the water down. So, those will be tied in subsurface uh roof drainage system. Okay. Y and then drainage in the front. So we we'll have a high point at the back of the sidewalk that we're restoring. So any water outside of the Emerald Street runway will actually run
away from the street and into the yard drains that we have in front of in between the house and the road. So everything will be contained on site. These are yards. Okay. So So Stephen, down below, isn't that your your catch basins, your your drainage system down bottom on that
triangular system? Yes. In the bottom right of Yeah. Down there. Isn't that what those represent? Yes. Those are these are all subsurface. Yeah. Thank you. Also, uh kind of along with Ray saying because of the drainage, what are you going to do for uh snow
removal? How are you going to handle snow? Cuz it doesn't seem like there's a lot of space in between. So, so we did designate some areas on the uh Yeah. Ryan has a different
uh on top of that um on the layout plan we did um which is see three of the site plans we did indicate some snow storage areas. It'll essentially be in the green space adjacent to the driveways where it's a little bit flatter and we haven't got to the breakout slope on the down side of the dwellings. So it'll be in between the driveways in between the two
um the two lots if you will and then it'll all be in the front yard. Will the people be responsible for removing their own snow? Um because are these condos? What I read originally they were condos. So they'll be built as a multif family.
It's going to be multif family but not correct. And our our intent typically is to sell them as condos. That is typically the intent. They'll be built that way, set up that way with an association with the intent of sell.
Okay. And so the with an association that association responsible from removal of the correct that'll be done in a um just lost the term for condu and regulations. So that's all
spelled out and that that is something that can be amended or conditioned by the planning board or this board I guess if they wanted to. So we can bring that back in for review. Yeah. And I think if you're going to have
a ultimately turn them into condos and you're going to have a condo association document, you know, I would think you would go speaking to the purchasers um maybe ahead of time regarding like
snow removal and everything because they're not going to see the document right away. Even if it's one of the we'll call it the tenants that live there, you know, they may live a year or two before it becomes a condo and the snow is taken care of. And then what
happens when it becomes a condo? So, prior to any purchase, we typically are almost required to produce the rules and regulations of the association as part of the offer and the purchase and sales agreement for any property. That's typically noted on over the years. Okay?
You know, every real says they want to see the master deed, declaration of trust and rules and regulations. And that spells out to your point all the particulars of who's responsible for what, who owns what, who doesn't own what. So, what color doors can be
painted? All kinds of all kinds of regulations and rules. So, will there be one or two condo associations because you have two? Just one for both um parcels. Sure.
change it up a little. What is the grade between Emerald Street and the say the uh the garages? Is it a significant drop or because I can't No, here. So, the proposed grade is is 1% um off the sidewalk and then away from the house as
well and then all the grading will happen after the garages on the down on the downhill side of the houses. So, you'll have a relatively flat front yard. I'm good. It's a large walk out basement, too. So, that change in elevation from the front
yard to the backyard pick up a substantial amount of that just with the buildings themselves. All right. Um, continue on. I believe I'm on item six. The proposal shall not be a substantial inconvenience or hazard to abutters, vehicles or pedestrians as determined by the special permit
granting authority. As I mentioned, the houses are in compliance with the dimensional zoning setback. So, they are adequately set back off the street and from the side property lines. And we are providing the off- streetet parking um to avoid any potential impact to pedestrians or users up the sidewalk
area along Emerald Street or users up the the Emerald Street rightway. The seventh item, the proposal shall be in harmony uh with the general purpose and intent of this chapter. Um as you mentioned, Mr. Chair, this is this area is uh contains several residential
homes, sing a mix of single um and multifamily structures within the zoning district. Um so we feel like this structure is is an appropriate use for this lot. Uh item eight, the proposal shall not have significant detrimental impact on city services, tax base, tax base,
and employment opportunities. Um so as I mentioned we are proposing to utilize the available city utilities uh municipal water and sewer within the street. Um we expect the project to have an increase on the sustained tax value of the property um and market value. So
we expect that this proposed um project would have a positive impact on land and a budget property values. I have a question. Were you going to install a brand new sidewalk? Yeah. He said he's going to replace everything along. Yeah. Are they going to Are you
going to put some lighting at all along that sidewalk, you know, cuz it's a downward slope? I mean, it's going to be neutralized a little bit, but I'm not sure what the lighting looks like or will be, you know. So, you want to light if people are walking through
that sidewalk at night, you know, what what reflection are they going to get off of Tony? And what's your plan? Are you planning to an upset? You don't have to. I'm asking if you are planning to install some kind of sidewalk lighting
or street lighting or something like that in that location. Not currently. No street lighting or sidewalk lighting. We could if that's a a consideration this board would like. I think we could add additional maybe some full lights on the
sidewalks for each of the units. That would provide six additional plant for the driveways. So I think we could I'd be fine with that as a condition and I think you know it's kind of early to say where you got to put them what the light intensity is etc but
give it some consideration and he's working with the planning board some more make the proposal there. Okay. Uh and the last item for the special permit criteria is the the pro proposal is consistent with the city's community development plan or master
plan. So we are providing a variety of housing that is not necessarily single family houses which your master plan references that a majority of the houses recently have been single family residential. So we are providing a um something different where maybe more
affordable in a different configuration than a traditional single family home on a lot. Um and the last criteria is relative to a zoning map amendment which is not applicable. Well, the master plan hasn't been fully identified 100%. Right. But there is a meeting coming up
within a few days that the there's going to be a commission starting to work on the master plan in in its full capacity going forward. So great, you know, I think you're addressing part of what's going to happen in the master plan. So
excellent. Okay. I think that's all I have to I know I've answered some questions along the way, but if the board has anything else, I'd be happy to take them. Well, long as you only had nine items, right? All right. First, I'll ask if my members have any questions of the gentleman.
No, I'll go first. Who's who's dealing with the multiple driveways off the is that through the planning board? Yes. Yep. That's our assumption. And so I think it was spoken about in a previous application, but the planning board does have the perview under the site plan review process to grant such a waiver.
Okay, David? No. No, my questions are answered. Well, I think I'll go through if there's people interested, but I can say up front that I'm going to recommend that we go out and do a site visit even if nothing has started yet. So we can
look at the property, see what it is, and you probably can answer some questions for us when we're there, you know, because I'm sure some questions will come about as we look at the property cuz I mean, most of us know what it looks like, you know, pretty
steep. So you can answer how the how you going to handle that and mitigate any issues. And if you can, well, we'll see the sidewalk. It's going to be there. you know, the old one. So, we'll look at that. It's tough.
It's tough to see, but Okay. And it has some building structures marked somehow so we know where the building's going to be. Okay. Yeah. So, if you can And I mean, it doesn't have to be fancy. Spray can of paint trying to catch where the
corners are of the buildings. And then even say when the where the driveway is going to ex exit out so we can get a handle on building location. Driveway location. Yeah. Just an orange spray
paint or something. Okay. For availability for the the board members. Excuse me. The availability for the board members to meet. I'll meet you anytime you want. Can we set a meeting tonight for that?
We're going to try. Okay. Okay. So, first, are there any abutters to the property? Would like to speak in favor of this application? Any abusers to the property to speak in
favor? None. Any abs like to speak in opposition to this application? Ma'am. I'm sorry. I wasn't [Music] sure when I was here last meeting that
was Could you come up to the mic? Can you come right up to the mic, please? Okay. Good evening. And state your name and address, please. My name is Phyllis Amberitz and I live at 100 Emerald Street, the Abuing Building. Um, and I'm
concerned with the fact that they're going to be grading and the fact that my property is going to be affected by whatever is done or not done. Um, snow removal is going to be a huge issue because we don't have a place for snow
removal right now. Our home is right on the sidewalk, such as it is. And um any runoff that will go down from where it's not being graded is going to cause a problem to my home. And there are very
lowlying areas towards the railroad track right now um that collect water already. and along with the fact that it's six families in that small space is enormous.
Okay. Now, you've stated some concerns and a lot of times I'll call it off record. You will meet with the developer or something and they will address your concern. Mr. Sy has answered some of my questions. I do appreciate the fact that
he's been willing to and you can mitigate some issues. I still have concerns. You know, conversation is good. So, but thank you you really for those are your concerns. Richard, if you're facing this, are you to the
right hand side of the property or the left hand side of the property? My house is You're over there. Right here. Right there. Well, this is going to be a little hash mark. I can see it on the on the edge. Okay. Thank you.
Are there any other abutters who would like to speak in opposition to this application? Are there any indivi individual parties who would like to speak either for or against this
application? Are there any individ excuse me parties to speak for or against this application? For the record, there are none. Do you want us to answer any of those? If you would like to address some comments that she made, you know, so
it'll be part of the record and address her concerns. And I just have you can kind of correct me if I'm wrong. So on the side of the lot that Would you just one second? Did you want to come
up? Come up front. Come on up front. Please come up front. So, so you're looking at the same you can see exactly what he's talking about. So, the house is 35 ft from the property line, which is almost twice what the
dimensional requirements are for multif family housing. She's on the other side. She's on the other side. She's on the other end. No, I'm sorry. I was wrong. Oh, you were on that one. Okay, that's okay. So, and then her house is uphill.
from everything that we're doing. We have a soil that catches everything in direct. So actually any runoff actually respectively will come off of their property onto ours, you know, existing. So we have a flat roof. Ours doesn't.
No, no, but I mean just your property is above, you know, the elevation. It's above our property. So water would run from your property onto our property, not the other way. Just for clarification on that. And then snow rule. We have areas for snow rule
priority on the planet and those are all that snow melt would be collected in main drains and yard drains and directed into subsurface a subsurface system on the back part of our property. So no snow would be put you know there's no reason for any snow to be put on the
street on the sidewalks or you know in front of in front of her house. So that I don't know if that help. Yeah. And I think when the board visits, you can show or lay out where
the snow is going to go roughly. And I'm going to ask this question right here because when we go normally a butters and etc. they don't come to the site viewing. Some do.
And if it's okay with the owner that she can attend the site and now the next part is some developers etc won't allow the abutters to come on to their property. So if you would allow her to come so she can see what you're talking
about. Okay. So you've got an open door when we go. You cannot ask a lot of questions because we don't start the meeting again. It's really the board will ask the questions just trying for some clarification. and you're just a sort of a silent
attendee and like I said the last two months more than happy to meet with her that you can set that up between yourselves. Yep. That's we've already done that through the planning board and directly with her so made myself available to the board.
Yeah. Sometimes that's a great resolution when you meet off I'll call it offsite. May I just ask one more question? My concern with the fact that that was an iron foundry for 50 years that burned down
um is there arsenic, boron, chromium, magnesium, venadium? What's in that that's left over from the iron? So, we've already done the VOC test, soil test, and that's all come back in.
Yeah. in the report VOC for anybody there's volatile organic compounds but I mean you could probably provide her a copy of the report or something she can see what it is but and it's on file so somebody anybody can really go in and get it
okay yeah any anything that they turn into us is public record you have every right to look at anything that we have and it seems like very reasonable that hopefully the two of you can discuss any issues and resolve them. Yeah, you can work together and get it
done. Yes, sir. Thank you. As the statement is, when you work together, there's nothing you can't do. Okay. So, does anyone else have any comments regarding this application? For the record, there are none. I'll ask my members if you have
any further questions. No further questions. No further questions. So, would we like to set out a time to visit? Sure. How about Mr. No. What do you suggest? In the monsoon weather. Did you say Thursday in the
weather and the rain to be here? He doesn't care. What does your schedule look like coming up over the next couple weeks? Whatever yours is. This is what mine looks like. Okay, that's for you. Come on.
You want to do it on the week or is it during the week? Let's see this lighter. They work. So, we can't do it during the week. I mean, we could do it like at 6:00 at
night or 6:30 as long as it's late. I have Fridays off. So, how about you, Mr. I can do it Friday. 30th. I can't do it this Friday, but I can do it the following Friday. 30th.
You can do it on the 30th. Could you do this Saturday? No, I'm not going to be here. Okay. The 30th. Friday. So, what we're doing? May
30th. That's available for May. That's I'm good. I'm clean. Yep. Okay. I'm good. May 30th. May 30th. It's a Friday. It's wonderful. I'm wide open that day. How about How about our neighbor? Can you do May 30th? Yes. What
time is good for you? What time is good for us? I'm up at 5:30 in the morning. So, you choose. Well, it's certainly not going to be 5:30 in the morning. You want to do it in the morning? Yeah. Right through the morning. 10:00. 9:30.
9:30. 9:30. Yes. 30th. Everybody good? 9:30. Yeah. On Friday the 30th. Okay. Okay. Friday. I remember. Oh, Mariel, you can get that posted.
Lari, would you set a reminder for me? I will set a reminder for you. So, Mariela, you can get that posted on the wire and all that anytime from today on. You can get it out there. Okay. So, no further
questions for these gentlemen. No. Okay. So, I'm going to move for continuance. I move that we continue this to the June meeting. Second. Second. Any discussion?
All in favor? I I. All oppose? No opposition. Continue to the June zoning meeting. I don't know the exact date right now, but Marielle can give you the date. Thank you for your time.
No, I'm good. Thank you very much. Thank you. Okay, so now we'll move on to the next case. who's been so gracious to sit through all of this. The next case
is and I'm going to ask a question now. So I identify the first one. We do them all at once. Case 2025 dash Oh no, we do have another for two. 2025
05-01. Gary Colette and Joe Colette 2119 Stephanie Drive parcel ID 17-15-3 individualized driveways per condo and you're going to go lot C, E,
and D. Is your presentation going to be identical for all three? Identical or we can take them individually? It's the same. Okay, you all comfortable with that? Take them all three. So, let me name the
others that we're looking at. Changing over here. Changing over here. Let me do this first. Okay. Okay. Case 2025-05-03. Variance Gary Colette Joe Klette
2119 Stephanie Drive personal ID 17-15-3 individualized drivers per condo lot D and in case 202504 variance John oh no that's the wrong one so we got C D and
E at this time we're going to change it when the member Mr. Taylor will be off this Mr. Rice will take over as the third member. Okay. All right. The floor is yours.
Okay. You want to go 234 Street. Move over and let him behind the mic. I'm going to let him talk because he Well, whoever's going to talk, get behind the mic. 234 Corner Street in Gardener. Uh we're
just we just want to apply for a variance to do a individual driveways instead of a shared driveway for each unit that we're building. Okay. Now I'm going to ask a couple of
questions. I'm looking at drawings here. Yep. And I'm kind of confused as to what the driveway is or where it is. When I first looked at it, I said, "Oh, there's three driveways to each unit." Apparently, that is not the case. Correct. Correct.
No, it's two for each lot. Two driveways per lot. Okay. So, that last spot in the middle, uh, which that's either grass or something. Your driveways are on the left and right of that, correct? Left and right.
What are you looking at? The building permit plan. See, that's what I'm looking at. What you have? How about this? Okay. Is it the same one, Lori? Yeah. In the middle, that's just grass.
Okay. Now, I'm looking at dimensions. Lot C. I'm looking down and I see the driver on the left. It says 20 ft. Yes. Yep.
How wide. That that is how wide. That's the width. That's the width. And the length is it's uh it's basically 25 ft for that. 25 by 20. Yes. Okay. If I'm looking
at the one on the right side, what are the dimensions of that one? That would be 20 by 25. The same. It's 25.6 on the one on the right as you look at it. Yeah. Which means the one on the left is probably a little bit more
because of the curve in the cuz Yep. the curve in the street. How many families living in the the building? There will be there are two condos per duplex. Okay. So, it's two condos or a duplex. Two. So, lot is two
condos. Yes. Are these existing driveways or proposed? They're proposed. What is the ex? Is there existing driveways there now? No, it's a new construction. Completely new construction. Okay. This must be driveway night. I know.
Driveways and parking. Parking. Don't like parking. Park the car. All right. Okay. Let's just I'll ask if you have any questions right now.
So they're going to exceed the 9 by8. They're going to be roughly 20 by 25 roughly. And it appears they have all their offsets. So your proposal is very similar the the prior one with
driveways. Correct. Yeah. Coming in. Yes. Now, when you said a sheared driveway, what was your definition of a sheared driveway? Kind of like the but the buddy driveway, whatever the the attorney was saying for a term. Like, if
you Yeah, if you look at the uh plot plan page, that's what the driveway can be, what we're allowed to do, and that's what we're trying to change to make them individual.
Why? just to make it better. Well, it it just it conforms it'll conform better with the neighborhood. You have an individual instead of one mini parking lot in front of each new place. Okay. Now, I'll hit the snow question.
Every time you get a driveway, the snow question comes up. Yeah. Where do you plan to put it? It'll have to be snowb blowed into the grass either side. Okay. They're really not they're really not that good of driveways for a snow plow.
It looks like you have plenty of room in the back, but not along your boundary markers on the sides. Can't get there is enough room to go down the sides of the house. There's what about 5T I see here. It's 5T off the line. Yeah. So, you can
run snowb blowers down there. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Or just go the other way into the middle. 30 ft. Okay. Now, this is a variance. There's three items you have
to address on a variance. Not the nine that that gentleman had. The variances. I'll start with what you're proposing. Does it create or aggravate a safety hazard? No, it does not. Okay, that's too easy. Why not?
It's a yes and no answers. Don't go. You've got to validate why you're telling me no. It's a it's a it's a flat lot. It's it's straight driveways. The streets aren't that busy. So backing in or pulling in won't create
any How's the visual if you're backing out? Are there a lot of trees or something may impede the They're clear lots. There's no trees. It's okay. It's pretty wide open. Your request does it deriggate from the
intent of the ordinance. I'll answer you for you. Okay. It does because that's why you're here. Yes. That you are violating the ordinance that you would be asking for something different. The hard
one. Does your request have something to do with shape, topography, soil conditions, etc.? That's why you need the variance to do that. That's the tough one to answer. Yes,
I'm not going to answer that one for you. We want you We got to figure that one. You need the variance because of shape, top, topography, soil conditions, etc. of the property. I'll give you an
example. That house on Emerald Street backyard goes like this. you would be asking for any changes of the the driveway because you would have to put in a subfoundation and bring in 50 yards of gravel to build it up. Correct?
That would be a financial impact. So that's the type of thing we look at. So prepare your response. Okay. Well, the only reason they were asking for the two straight driveways instead
of the one in the middle is if you sell them as a conduit, who's responsible for the driveway that's in So, we're trying to save people fighting over this. So, we'd like to get each a
driveway condo. They each own their own driveway. They don't split that driveway up. Now, all my sewage, excuse me, and my water lines are all in the middle of the house. So, we'd like to put the two
driveways so that you don't put the driveways over in case you need to go to the water line or the sewer line. This way, you don't have to dig up a driveway or parking and stuff. It's the same
thing with uh taking care of the snow. who takes care of the driveway, right? So, we give a major driveway and they they own the property outright. When it comes to the roof, it's a 50/50. If one's got to get fixed,
you do a 50/50. They both pay half and half once they're home. So, that would be included in the legal document. Well, well, it will be included in See, now we've we've got the first building up. We have the permit to build three of
them. We're only asking for the driveway problem and we're trying to save fighting over whoever buys the problem. It's your turn to plow. It's my turn to cut, you know, to to do the stuff. Question a question and you get a point
to say you said, well, if we have one driveway and my sewer and water lines here and then have to dig all that up. That's right. If something happens, how much how what's the expense to do that and install new ones? Yeah, it's all
new, but you never know something can happen. Who who would uh like to dig up their driveway or or dig up loom to get to the problem. Loom don't cost much and see, but a driveway costs a little bit.
So, we'll go right ahead. So, so right now these structures don't exist. one does. Our city exists because we it's we're build we're in the process of building. So, we're just doing this now to get ahead of our driveways. So, put them in. So, you you've already designed
these with the garages on the far ends without knowing you have any relief from us yet. No garages, just driveways. Well, there's no garages on you, just driveways. Just driveways. So, no garages. So, so as far as water and sewer connections, you you can locate
those if the driveway was dead center and each party shared half. You can you can still do your water sewer connections on and on on the grass area to left or right of the driveway. Correct. Cuz you haven't done your connections yet. Well, the connections
on the first house is done. I'm still asking if we can change the driveways just and plus it would match the whole street. They have a running driveways per house but where we started we were allowed to put a duplex there. So we fig
instead which is two it's like a duplex and we decided if we could put the driveways imag the rest of the street two you know is that a town road city road? Yes. Even even when it gets to the condos and other duplexes beyond
you. Well, if if somebody would come there and buy the whole building, I mean, they can use it as a condo at Yeah. But fur further beyond you. Is that is that not a bunch of duplexes already behind? Yes. But it's different. It's another street. Oh, it's a
different street. Yes. Oh, I'm sorry. I'll go back to my question though. If you had to dig all this up, approximate cost to dig up the driveways. Okay. Well, we're we're kind of waiting
to see the you if if we allow us to do it, but he's going to give us a price how much you would do it for two driveways or one. Well, we talked to him about it and he figures it's probably about the same cost.
I think what Mr. Leond is asking is what the cost would be if you had to dig up dig up pavement to make a correction. One how much it would cost to dig one up? Well, it will cost me uh about $6,000 per driveway. Per driveway. Per
driveway. And how much to install new lines and everything? Well, a new lawn. So, everything that goes to the street at the moment, they're charging 8,000 per per unit. Yeah. So, it probably be around that
area. Okay. All right. Questions. No, I'd like to uh definitely like to view this place. I I guess I'm not seeing the hardship. I'm not seeing anything related to shape of topography
or financial. with their brand new builds. They're that's just what I'm seeing. I don't know if anybody see anything differently. Okay. Well, that's what I was trying to get at. If he had it in Well, I I trying to tear it up. So, you see the tough part
that we have is is in order to grant the variance, you have to have a hardship of the sort being something unique to the property that doesn't exist elsewhere. you got ledge or you got wetlands or you got the septic system in the front yard, you you have to have a reason for us to be able to grant a variance. It's not
just because it's a it's a preference a preferential thing that would be nicer to have a driver on each end versus one comma and one in the middle. So we my opinion is that we're kind of bound by um we just can't just because you that
it's a preference thing. We just can't deal with a preference. This has to be a form of a hardship. That's why I talked about due to shape top shape topography and soil conditions. I mean, right now it looks like what you'll do is just come in with
your equipment, put the base down, and you put your black top down and end of story. Yeah. Yep. There's no special digging or anything like that, right? Okay. I still would like to come down and see it. And I want to look at the
rest of the neighborhood, too. So, you okay? Sidewalk, huh? You want to do a sidewalk? Yeah. Maybe we can do it on the 30th. Sure. When we finish Emerald Street, go right over to Stephanie Drive. Would you be available on the 30th of May? Be available. Yeah.
So, probably what 10 and 10:00 then? What did we say? 9:30. We said 9:30, but I would say between 10:00 and 10:30. Yeah, that'd be fine. We can be there anytime. I would say be there at 10:15 anyway. Be
there for 10 and hang around and wait for it. We'll be there working. So, I'll go on my own. I'm not going to be around on the 30th. You're already gone? Already gone to the man. It's all right. We can handle it. I'll go and take a look at it on my own, too.
Let me ask if Well, there's only that gentleman, Mr. Austo. Yeah. All right, sit tight. We're coming. All right, so I'm not going to go through the liturgy of butters for against city officials.
For the record, there's no no one left in the audience. There's nobody in the audience except the next applicant. So, I'm I'll pass that. So, The 30th. Could it be done a little bit sooner?
I'm just asking the question for a reason. The 30th. I'll be around. Oh, you'll be around. Okay. I I won't I won't be there. This will when you have five people trying to line five calendars up get Okay. No, that's okay. All right. So, do I hear Let me first
We're going to have to continue your case because we're going to go view it, see it, etc. So if you're okay, would you take a continuence to June? June. Yeah. Well, it's more or less the the people that wants to do the driveway. They're kind of waiting. So So
you have two choices. We we vote tonight or or we continue to to June so we can go see your site and make it the get a better feel for what you're trying to do. So if you don't continue, we'd have to vote tonight and close you here. No, no. I mean, yeah. If it's June, it's
June. I mean, we can vote tonight if you'd like. Huh? We could vote tonight if you'd like. What is that? Would you like them to vote tonight or continue it? You You don't What do you want to do? Vote tonight? Yeah.
Well, if you want to go tonight, it's either I do the middle driveway or we do the separate. I mean, there's only two ways out there. That's correct. I mean, you haven't given us a lot of information for the hardship
part. That's why, and I'm not thinking that we're going to see a lot, but that's why I'm proposing we go out and take a look at the site, okay? Etc. And then we would vote in the June meeting.
Okay. Would delay it would delay us a little bit because of that. You want to vote tonight? No. This is like Shark Tank. I know, right? Negotiating on our deal. My only problem with that
is we were on the verge of putting one on the market. And all we need to do, I understand, is put the front step. And to put the front step, we need to know where the driveways are going first. So that we can put the step and
then they can do the driveway. And that will back us up at least a couple of weeks. I think as Mr. Hanks was saying, we would vote on the information we have tonight. Yes. You know, and that's I don't think your information will change
even if you see the property. That's So, we're thinking maybe just vote tonight. Vote tonight. Okay. You want to vote tonight? But you're welcome to come and look at the property. It it will be it will be
on sale. Now that's after the fact. That's if you choose to appeal the the case and then we have to go to court and all that. Then we have to come out and see it and then it'll be lot later than June
by time the courts get going and the decisions made. And if that's a heads up. And if it's tonight, it'll be you can't do much terms of appealing for about two years. Well, then then we'll wait till June.
Okay. All right. You want to wait? Uh we'll wait till June because uh you know, you'll pro you could probably vote better if you see the property. Make I make no guarantees. No guarantees. And
we're going to look at the neighborhood too at the same time. Yeah. Myself, I think the smartest move would be the two driveways because it would meet the streets and everything than the middle parking lot,
but I know it'll be up to you guys. I mean, we can tend to agree with you, but we have the ordinance that we have to go by. That's our rule, a rule book, and that's what we have to work on. It might be the best thing, but under the
ordinance, it's really not allowed. So, we don't have any choice. Yeah. The only choice you have if we render a decision say in the negative and say no, you can appeal this and go to court. But that's going to slow you down. It's
not going to be you in the ground in June. There'll be the lawyers lining it up in court and everything. It probably be September the earliest before you get an answer from the judge. Okay. So,
well, even in June, you when when you vote on it, it'll either be for the two or just the single. It's a it's a yes or no. We approve what you're asking for or we deny what you're asking for. Yeah. In other words, if we do the middle, we do the middle, but we think that it's not
right to do it that way. That's the only thing that we're doing. We're doing trying to get it done the right way and to meet the street and if it takes till June, it's better to wait till June than to be denied than is that what you're saying? Well, you have no guarantee in
June either. It's No, no, we don't have any guarantee to do a sitewalk on May 30th as the chair was saying that we'll look at the rest of the neighborhood. You can show us what you're talking about. We'll take a look at it. We'll come back in June. We'll deliberate.
We'll talk about it and see if you raise to the level of of us being able to grant you a variance to legally grant you a variance is probably the term I should use because we are bound by the terms of the ordinance that says you're allowed one and you're asking for
something above and beyond that we don't allow other other than a variance but you have to show a hardship. Usually it's something unique to your property. It's the soils. You got lead so you can't do it elsewhere. You got a septic system in your front yard. So you can't there's
something that's forcing you to ask us to do this outside of what the regulations tell us to do. Okay. That that's the burdening is on you. You have to you have to present to us why this is a hardship to you. Okay. Okay.
set for the 30th. June, you going to you want to go to June or Yes. Yes. Yes or no? Because, you know, I want to move on to the next poor guy. He's sleeping back there. We'll do June. We'll do June. June.
Okay. Do I have a motion to go to June? I make a motion to go to the June meeting as a continuence for Stephie Dra. Second. Second. Okay. Any discussion? All those in favor of continue this case to June. I I opposed.
No opposition. We'll see you May 30th. Probably between 10:15 10:30. We'll be there. We'll be there. Yeah. So, get all your information together and get ready to present it. Okay. Now,
Marielle will have a form for you to sign. Correct. Um, I do have a form for continuation, but do you want them to sign that right now? Well, unless they come in tomorrow
morning. Come in tomorrow. I will not be here. Oh, you won't be here. Then I'd like them to sign it tonight. If you can just wait a couple minutes, she's going to get a document you have to sign that you agree to go that way. Uh, thank you. Thank you.
Just sign and I'll enter the rest of the request. The what? There's a fee of $150. Well, Mr. Nest though. Come on up here. Last contestant of the evening. I think it's break time. Break
time. I'm with you. Boy, I wish I had coffee this evening. Yeah. Okay. The next case is 2025-05-04. Jonathan Austo 353 Otter River Road. Personal ID C37-7-3. a second driveway to access a building.
Yep. So, your presentation, sir, it's Jonathan. You're a variance, too. Yes. Variance. Yes. Uh, Jonathan Austo. I live at 353 Auto River Road, as you stated. Been there for 30 years. Um, I'm looking for a variance for a second driveway for a
building I'm going to have constructed back there. I have an abuing property which I think you can see my my land's kind of almost like a pie a gardener and the back side of my property is Winon. If you didn't know it, you'd think it was all one property because I mow it all and everything back there
where I'd like to have this building. I already talked to the Winon building inspector. Um, so the building I want to put up I cannot access from the driveway I have now because as you were stating I do have septic. They're all septic
systems out there. It's and I have a well. I I cannot go around the left side of my house because about 20 feet over it's straight down to the Otter River. There's an Otter River uh river back there and then it goes over my septic
and I'd have to go way around. The only part I have is from the front, which is I think I have a couple pictures in there. um that it's flat, there's no trees, and I just want a straight shot to go back to the building. And the photo I have, I have one from the back
where the building would be and from the front off the road. And this is for storage for myself. And it sits back far enough. I've already discussed it with my neighbors where they I have great neighbors anyway, but it sits back where there's a row of trees. Nobody's going
to be nobody sees it or anything like that. And I think you know the the building is on Winon property. It is on Winston. It's right. It like if you didn't like I said if you didn't know it it it would a but I mean you think it was all one piece of land cuz I mow it
all. I've been there for 30 years. Is this driveway off of the same road? Yeah it's off the bottom river road and I talked. Yes. Go ahead. What's the What's the distance between them? 173 ft. I have 400 and something uh road frontage, but the way my house is
situated right now, if it was over to the left, I'd have the 200 feet I need. And I I still have that road frontage there, but the way the house is situated cuz I talked to uh the building commissioner and he said, "If you have 200 feet, you don't have to go get a variance." That's correct. I'm at 173 after I measured. So, I came back and
talked to him. He said, "Now you got You're off by 17 ft." Yeah. And I think I have where on there my neighbor's property the budding my property their their house is at 12 feet from my property.
So clarify something for me sir. So that's your property. Yeah. Can I come up a little bit? Yeah. Come on. Yeah. Is all of this front of yours? No. No. You see the just this one? Yes. Just that that part right there in the back part of the winter property. This this right
here. Yep. Yes, sir. 350. Okay. Yeah. The pyramid pyramid shaped parcel. Yeah. There we go. Like this one here. Like you were seeing on there. I just blew it up. This is where my house is right here. And the driveway would just go back here to my the property. I'm
putting it on that property. So, it's not in the way of these neighbors or anything like that. It's uh landlocked. I don't have any other access to it. It's not available. Is Is that all on one deed, though? Um, yeah, the de should be in that. Um,
because there there's already a couple structures on the on the winching side. Those are gone. I think they were a chicken coupe when I first moved in and uh was like a tent. Yeah, there were a couple of them. The guy had chickens back there. Are you Are you the little cape homes?
No. Um, do you know where the old Otter River swimming pool was years ago? Yeah. Okay. So if you come if you're coming from Otter River on 68, you come up, you got the Otter River swimming pool. You come up, there's a house that kind of sits looks like it sits down in the ground. Chicken wins. Yes. I'm the next
house up. You're the next one. Yes. Um. Yep. This is your house right here. Yes, sir. And what are these little buildings? Those were the old uh there was a sauna that the finished people had there that's all been torn down and the other one was a chicken coop on the winch process that's still there. No,
those have been long tore down since I moved in years ago. They were all rotted. I I I think I I I would have liked to have seen a um a proposed location on a plot plan where the new building's going to be, where your existing driveway is,
where your septic is, where your well is. Do they have that? Oh, I don't I don't I don't think I had the build where the building was going to be. I don't have the septic system. It's right behind my house. If I hate to keep approaching. I'm not trying to be rude.
Oh, no. No, you're fine. Now, my house is here. Okay. It's It's a 70 something foot ranch. It's kind of long. Yep. If you go around this side, right around the back here. Okay. That's where my septic system is. Right back here. My garage is here. The septic
system is right here. I cannot drive. Right here is where the Otter River comes down and comes behind. I cannot and it goes straight down. I cannot drive over my septic system. The only access I would have is the building being right here is to straight on like that. That's right. Which which is what
I was getting at with the other people. But it would it would be nice if if you had it on a plan. Yeah. This is my I mean this is all new to me. Yeah. That's that's all right. You're doing fine. I'm doing fine. I was asking questions of people trying to answer some of this stuff. I'm like I'm not a I'm watching this lady up here the other day, the the
the lawyer attorney bullet points and everything, man. Yeah. So, so, so I'm I'm I'm going I'm going to reiterate what I was saying to to the other people is that you have to show us something that we that that we can have the ability to grant you a variance because
it's, you know, there's something unique to your property. Like you're saying, your septic's in the way. You got you got the other river way over here which you got to that's a river. You probably got to stay 200 ft off of that because riverfront, right? Yes, sir. Um, you got a house, garage already, whatever the case may be. But it'd be nice if it was on a plan that we could look at and you
say, "This is my existing driveways for my house. This is where the driveway is going to be for this new building, and there's here's where my new building's going to be." I understand that. I think the only picture I have there, it's not a picture, it's where my driveway is on one of those, and it's 173 ft to the other driveway. Do I have that on there
on you guys? Should be in that back? Yeah, you do. Oh, this one shows your house. Yes. I'm not even sure what what side of the house you're trying to put this drive. The left because this is the road right here. You're looking at the road. Yeah. And I'm If I'm looking at my house, I'm going to put it on the right side. On the right hand side. So, you
get further away from the auto river. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, definitely. Oh, I Okay. I see you plan to put a building. It was me on the top corner. It'll tell you how many feet. It's 173 ft. I I measured that out. So between my property line and my house
is like 90 ft between the two just to put that straight driveway. Yeah. So so so right now you're driveways on the lefth hand side of the house. Yes, sir. Yeah. It's all Yeah. Right on the left side. So So you you you can put the structure on the left hand side. Could you you'd be approaching on wetlands?
Yes. And septic system. And my septic system comes around. Yes, sir. Yep. Yeah. I see where you're going. Yeah. And I I I you know, it was the big thing of putting it on the winching in property, but the winching, like I said,
if you I mow it all the time and all that. It goes back a ways. I mow it to where I want to put the uh the building. And I talked to the winching and building inspector and he said, "Yeah, I can do it because I'm far enough away on that back side, but it's just getting a
variance now." Because I thought it was 200 feet, but after I measured it, I had to come get a go for a variance after I talked to the building. So, so, so your driveway would be how wide and would be paved? Um, I would I I would get it done, but I don't think I could pave it
this year. That's the only thing I would do gravel it, make it nice. I don't want to just So, I see people run over their their lawns and stuff like that. I don't want to do that and make it look like Sanford and Sun. No, I know it's your property looks nice. I I drive by it
frequently. Yeah. And I just want to make sure I can put a straight driveway in. I'd do gravel, pack it all, make sure it was good, and then eventually I would tar it. Yeah. Do Do we have a regulation at the of an apron having to be paved on a driveway? No.
And we don't have really a regulation to pave the driveway. Okay. Right. No. So, you really in the paving part, you got two choices. You can go I call it permanent and then the crush. Yeah. The millings or reg grinds. What? Yeah. The
reg. Correct. Yes. And that actually works pretty good, too. And it allows the water to drain through. Not impervious. Yeah. Non impervious. And impervious. So, I mean, you got the three items. Are you creating a safety hazard?
No. Yeah. I think I wrote that down in Yeah, I did. Those questions were a little confusing to me. I answered them the best I could. You actually did a good job. Okay. Yeah. Not bad. Same thing. Are you drogating from the ordinance? Yes. Yeah. That's what I have. Yeah. But
the part is to provide the hardship due to shape, topography, and soil conditions. You've presented quite a few good facts of why you can't do it where you're supposed to do it. Yes, sir. As Mr. Hanks said, it
would have been nice to have one of the I tried to do the best I could. Like I said, I apologize. This is my first time. I', like I said, I've been here 30 years, but I've never gone before a board or anything like that for anybody. Most people never come before the school, so they don't really Well, I got a little nervous when I was watching the
lawyer up here. So, so, so if I facing your house and I know your garage on the left hand side, where's your septic in relation to that? Is it to further to the left? Further to the right and then straight back. Do you mind if I come up there and show
you? Yeah, come on up. Just make it easier for us. Oh, yeah. You come to us. Thank you. All right. Yeah. No problem. So I see the shadow of your house. Shadow. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. My garage is there. My septic system is
probably about off of here. Straight also out the back. Yes. And on this left hand side, you got all this wet land. You got the other river, which Yeah. I mow a little bit on this side, but then it goes straight down to the river that comes around. Yeah. I I I don't see any other place he could put a put a garage
other than where he's cooked yet. No. So, I'll ask my two other members here. You have any questions, this gentleman? No. Any comments? Well, you I'm good. Actually, I would propose that we vote on this tonight.
Vote on this tonight. That's probably a better terminology. I I would actually make a motion to grant relief to Mr. Austo due to the hardships on the left side of his house. Okay. And in the decision write up, we've got to address
you the sewer, subject, the river, well, well, and all that. So, it has to be in there. Okay. So, what is your motion, Lori? My motion is to approve the request. Second. Second it. Did you second it? I did.
Great. Any discussion? None. that I'm all in favor of granting this variance to Mr. Gusto. I I approved. Variance approved. Thank you very much. And like I said, then you don't you probably don't know how this
works after. No, I don't. So, take a hook yet cuz you got a couple more days to wait. Yeah, I understand that. Yeah. So, we have two weeks to write your decision. Yes. We try to get it done no more than a week. Okay. when you receive the decision, it's
going to be timestamped and that go that's because of the uh city clerk. You cannot do well legally any construction or activity for 20 days till you're notified that nobody
has appealed this decision. Once you get the approval that nobody's appealed, you'll get a copy of that decision. You have to take it to the registry of deeds, etc. for the county or district, get it recorded, it'll be on your deed,
and it'll stay there forever. Okay. Okay. And once that happens, you can go and do what you got to do. Okay. Thank you very much. Now, bring that to the registry of needs in Worester, right? Where? Okay. Yeah. Some people bring it personally, some people give it to an
attorney. They do it electronically. Oh, okay. Okay. Well, it depends on if you want to go to Worester. It's not that or you could call attorney tree and you're not promoting anybody. No. Or I should say any attorney. Any attorney.
All right. Thank you. Hey, and thank you very much. Appreciate it. And sorry like I try to do the best I could on that. So, you did well. If this is your first time, you did pretty darn good. I'll tell you. Okay. All right. Well, thank you very much. I appreciate everything. It was very nice meeting you all. Have a good
night. Okay, you too. Sorry if the last probably a good thing you waited to the end. Okay, there are no minutes. I mean, no minutes. No. Well, we still have to vote on the minutes from the last meeting that we didn't vote on. Correct.
Let's see what we got. Last thing on our agenda. It's on the back side. The last time the last time we had uh two different minutes, everyone signed and they were they agreed, but I did not hear We we never we never made a motion to approve. So, do I have a motion?
These are the April minutes. Make a motion we approve the April 15th April 15th minutes. Okay. Do I have a second? Second. Any discussion?
Okay. All in favor? I abstain. Yeah. Can you just step? No, I didn't step on you. I'm sorry. I did bring coffee. It didn't help you sign what we already signed before. There we go. That's that one.
Bob Rice, I need yours. Dave Ana. So, Mariela keeps adding to Um, just for the record, may I ask for the uh minutes of March and February to
be approved? Just for the record. Okay. I make a motion we approve the February and March. February, March 2025 meeting minutes. I'll second that. Any all in favor? I oppose. And then
this is in the correspondence here from James Leblanc summary of May 1st start 2024 to April 31st 2025 maintenance and erosion. I know
this is maintenance and erosion map X17-32-2 book 4437-3338. We had a shorter than normal season in 2024. For the seven months we were running, there were no issues with erosion or complaints from neighbors on
the other side of the tracks or anyone in the industrial park. Submitted James Le Mackie Building Centers. This is a case we worked on what about three years ago or four years ago? A long time ago. in the back. They do production like the
windows and stuff like that. Plus, they had a big a sand hill and they had to change the topography and they had to move dirt around. Oh. All dirt out. Okay. And he till they get it completed, he has to
report on an annual basis of any complaints that come in and if they had any issues at all. And this just gets it done that they were okay for this year. Okay? Because when I first got it at home, I'm like, "What the heck is this?"
And then when I saw Mackie, I said, "Oh, I know what it is." We don't have sign off. It's just we acknowledge the receipt. Yep. Okay. Any further business before the board? So, we'll see everybody on May
30th at 9:30 to start the day. And Hopefully we finish it off by 10:30. But not Mr. Rice because he'll be gone. I'll be in New York City. New York City. Now we got two we got to handle.
David and Bob writes about you guys. It must be requirement to have to travel a lot. Yeah. Most won't be me. Ready? Do I have a motion to adjurnn? Motion to adjourn.
Second. All in favor? I I meeting is journ. Thank you.