Okay. Uh, I'd like to call the meeting of the Gardener Zoning Board of Appeals to order. And today is, uh, May 19th. And we have two cases tonight.
and I will go over the ground rules which the board operates under in gardener. It'll be short because we only have one interested individual in the audience. Everybody else is connected to the zoning board. In
Gardner, four members of the zoning board of appeals must be present to conduct a hearing. We do have four members tonight. Uh there's only two applications. They'll be heard in the sequence in which they appear. All the hearings are
open to the public. Nobody should shall be excluded. Applicant may appear and be represented by himself or agent or attorney. And representatives of the city will be heard. There's no representatives in the
audience. Uh there are no abutters to the property present. I'll take that back. There is one, sir. Any abutters to the property present shall be heard. Those in opposition shall be heard.
Okay. And tonight, because we only have four members, uh if we do voting, all four members have to vote for the application. There's no majority when you have a five member board.
Uh as I said, all hearings are open to the public. applicant may hear in his or her own behalf. Uh but to the property present shall be heard. Those in opposition shall be heard. Regarding any variances, the board must
uh excuse me, render a decision within 100 days after the application was filed. Special governmentments must rem render a decision within 90 days after
the closing of the public hearing. I'm sorry, after 65 days after the application was filed and 90 days render decision after the closing of the public hearing. All four members must vote in favor for
the variance of special permit. The right to appeal the decision of this board is provided for in chapter 4A in the zoning act. The information is available in the office of the city clerk. Uh the board requests that each person
identify himself or herself as the name and address before addressing the board. Sitting on tonight's hearing to my right, Richard Hanks. To my immediate left, Robert Rice. Uh then we have
Jim Belo and then myself Ray Leon as chair. The meeting will be taped and videotaped. Does anyone object to the videotaping? No objections. Let's look at the first case tonight.
It is case number I got to get the case number >> GPA 26-4 >> 26 case number 202632 and this is for an continuance
uh to our June meeting. Uh the gentleman has paid the uh ex the continuence fee and the issue is uh as far as the cell tower by Walmart. Uh
they're getting some more information regarding the tower itself and the fall zone. So do I hear a motion to approve the continuance to next month's meeting? I make a motion that we approve the requested continuation till the June
meeting. >> I'll second the motion. >> Okay. >> Any questions or comments? >> All those in favor of the continuence say I. >> I. >> All those opposed? No opposition. Continue. Now our second case
>> notified us just recently that he is on his way and for whatever reason he was detained. So, I'm going to go into a recess for a short period of time uh to allow the individual to become present. And
>> yes, Mariela came on. >> We need a motion to go to recess. >> I was going to say, can I just go? Do they have to be here? I mean, I'm not in opposition. I just have concerns to
voice and wondering here. Well, I think the short answer would be no because because the applicant is not the He's here. >> He's here. >> Okay. So, I will >> The answer is yes. >> I will withdraw the request to go into recess
and we'll give the gentleman a couple minutes to get himself ready. Okay, Mr. Patel, we're giving you a few minutes to get yourself organized. >> Sure. Sure. >> Are you ready? >> Uh, I'll take a gas.
>> Yeah, when if you're ready, come up if you need a couple of minutes. >> Yeah, >> we will wait because I actually was going to go into a recess cuz I wasn't sure when you would be here. >> Yeah, I mean there's it's so surprising that the temperature is so
So dark and very rainy. Okay. Are you ready, sir? >> Yeah. Thank you for waiting for me. >> That's all right. >> That's really helpful because it's kind of a support, right? >> We want happy applicants. Yeah. >> Okay. Let me just call the case. This is
a case number You'll find the numbers on this case number 2025 1201 co and P number M272458. I haven't found it. Have you? >> Did you find it?
>> Maybe Mar can help you. >> Okay. Case number 2025-12-01. It's a continuence. It's a special permit. Thank you. So, Mr. Patel, >> y >> the floor is yours.
>> Thank you. Well, uh I did make an attempt uh four months ago, five months ago, and I was told that I should prove an evidence of pictures or something like that where I have six parking
permits to permit make my uh dwelling as six sorry, three units. Okay. And I didn't have the diagrams or pictures at that time. I've got now. And uh
if you can take a photo from here, it tell us we are already allowed for four parkings and we have made two more there. And uh uh >> thank you. Currently 521 CMR23 suggests
that there should be 18 ft sorry 8 ft per car width and we have almost like you know 16 to 18 ft. So that helps us to take the car back and forth if there are any you know when when they're pack parked tandemly. So there's a leeway and
the other side of the house that is on the right hand side there are two more parking spots. In fact, there are more, but we made recommendations for the request of the city. So, that should fulfill like a 8.5 ft of layout
per car. >> I have a question on the size of the parking spaces. >> Yeah. >> What what are their dimensions? >> Uh what the length is 20 ft. The total length is 100 ft. So, that accommodates 18 ft per car.
>> 9 ft. 100 ft length and 18 ft width. >> No, the actual parking spaces. That's what I'm looking for. 9 by 18. >> Uh, no, it's more than that. It's uh,
let me see. Eat parking is 18 18 by 8 ft. >> Cuz I notice on your plan there's no dimensions listed. >> It is they're very tiny. I copied. So 18 by 8, but there is more. I mean that's marked
whatever we have marked. But there's 18 ft of available width for the driveway on one side and there is 14 ft on the other side. >> All right. If I'm correct, the 8 ft that's listed here, >> 8 ft. Yeah. Is about the car
>> is the width >> width of the car. Yes. >> Because that's what um 521 CMR23 requires. 18.
>> You're looking for three apartments? >> Yes. And you've got >> two bedrooms in each apartment. >> Yes. In fact, the structure is already three tired and I wonder like how did the
perimeter many if you say like decide this has to be only two apartments then how do I remove the other floor you know what I'm saying >> what's your total number of spaces >> total number of spaces that was suggested by the uh zoning committee was
six because I wanted three units It's being there. >> You have three apartments. >> Yes. >> Two bedrooms. >> Yes. >> Requires two car two spaces per apartment. >> Yeah. So, there are six. >> Well, see, when I'm looking, I'm counting all these cars. And I've got >> I think what he's showing is that if you
parked here, you can back up here and then head back out. >> Yeah, I can see that. But you got one, two three four five. >> On the left hand side, there are four. >> So, I come up with like seven. One two. >> Oh, no. The other car is for showing the
diagram that another car can pass by. >> This backs out. That's fine. >> But you see what I'm saying? >> Let me explain you. If you look at the if you're looking at the uh the apartment, the topmost car, let's say it's not movable. There's a space of
about like you know 10 ft so that it can back up and take it out on the other side. So that's why that there is a second car which is being placed and then again May I? >> Yeah, you may. >> So, >> just mark off the ones that are real
spaces. >> So, this car is available. >> That's a good one. >> Okay. That's a space for this car to take it out. Lift it up. >> Yeah. >> Or if this person has planned, there's a space for this person to go in front and take it out to the side. So, that's the
second car. That's the third car. That's the fourth car. Again this is space in between for two cars either to take it back. So there's another car here that can be take taken back >> doesn't require. So four parking car lots are not done here. The other two
are here. Again here there's 18 ft and 8 there's 14 ft width here. It's totally 16 ft wide. So what CMR is 8.5 into 8.5 is about 16 ft. >> All right. That little 8 ft right in the front right there. What's that? That's
the width of the car >> of the car or the space >> space for the car. Width of the space for the car. >> Okay. So, >> so if say if there's a neighbor and if he has built a wall then I should have some room to open the door. So, so it's
more than that. That's what this guided lines suggest. >> So, is there a retaining wall right here? >> No, not yet. It's for the neighbor. There'll be retaining wall there for the neighbor. There's no retaining. >> So, so each of these properties step up
as you go up the hill. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> So, so, so right now there's no retaining wall, but >> retaining wall. It's like a slant. >> It's just a slanted grass that >> Okay. So, I think that our zone >> there's a retaining wall on this side.
It's perfectly about like >> this has a retaining wall that drops off. >> Yeah. 3 ft. But there's only two cars which can have 14 ft of >> So you're showing this that this car could go around this car. >> Yeah. >> All right. So this building is 30 ft wide. Is that correct?
>> Yes. >> And this whole lot is 58 ft wide. >> Yes. >> So the minimum size parking spot for a car is 9 by 18 or 9 by 20. >> This one says 832.
>> Can I say something about that? because up the street >> 521 CMR >> there's there's completely different spots. >> You'll have your opportunity. >> Go ahead. >> So CMR 20 52123 says that we need for 8 ft per car.
>> 521 CMR that's the architectural access board. Is that not correct? >> What is that? >> What what what section of the law are you citing? It's for the Massachusetts, you know, any apartments. So, parking width of each parking lot. >> Did you look at what the city of Gardner
requires for parking spaces? >> I didn't see any. I tried and which is why I went to the >> city of gardener requires 9 by 18. That's the ordinance. >> Yeah, definitely. I have 9 by 18 on this side. Here, I'll be short of about one
and a half foot on the other side. >> Okay. So, Let's look at this together. Hold that face up. So, what I'm looking at is that this is 30 ft wide. That's 58 ft wide. That leaves you 28 feet between this side of the building and this side of the building. >> It makes 29 and 1/2. That's what I said.
I'll be short of 1 and 1/2 ft. >> 29 and 1/2 ft is where >> total from here to here. >> So, this is 16 ft. >> Okay. So, so what I'm getting at is so the city requires a parking space to be
9 ft wide. Okay, we can still make it. >> Okay, so 29 is 18 ft. >> Yes, >> but this >> that doesn't give you enough room to to maneuver a vehicle through there. >> So there's 16 and 1/2 ft as measured. >> You have 16 and 1/2 ft right here.
>> Yes. Yes, absolutely. But I put it 16 ft because half here. >> See what makes it hard. You don't have any dimensions on there. >> Okay. Yeah, I have I do have a dimension here at 8 ft, but it's too tiny to read.
>> But, you know, I mean, it should show either 16 or 9 ft and nine on the side. >> So, so if if you're looking to have vehicles maneuver beyond each other like you're showing, then then you need an access aisle, which we define that in
the ordinance as well, that an access aisle to >> Yes, that's what I meant. That's why I put this picture here. Yes, there is access for the other car come. >> You know what I'm saying? >> I do. You you you realize how small of a space that is.
>> But a pickup truck with mirrors is 10 is 10 ft wide. >> That's an apartment. I wouldn't expect a pickup truck guy to be parking there. >> But I think Mr. Hanks the point if you've got a big big pickup truck that's 10 ft wide.
>> I understand for a pickup truck. No, we don't have this and probably would have to person that no >> but I think the issue not what you have for what you're going to do but the the the
granting of the special per settlement that's going with the property. >> Yeah. Property cannot expand >> if you sell it. >> Yeah. >> The new owner is stuck with whatever we vote. So if you come in undersized
>> well on the other hand the argument is this I'm the new owner compared to the old owner right since about like six or seven months the new old owner sold it to me as a single family because the record suggested R1 or something like that then when I dug deep they said okay
we had a permit for R2 that is for two residents now what do I do with the third floor do I demolish it or it's already been built I mean that was built 100 years ago approximately according according to the records I don't know when they made third floor second floor or so but at least as is exists it must
be minimum in my expectation like by looking at the woods and other things it should be minimum 50 years old >> what's back here >> there's nothing >> mhm >> that's what I was going to think about >> there's nothing >> nothing put the cars in the back >> and use the side as
>> uh the terrain is not even the terrain terrain is not even the land is not even >> no terrain to get a get a bulldozer. It's not easy between two apartments. >> So, because of the ledge back there, you even though it's we're only looking at
flat, but you you're saying that the terrain is >> Yeah, it's not flat. It's not bad. >> You can't get a car back there. >> We we I mean, particularly in the snow days, it won't be good. That's why I didn't want to claim that area. And also if I get a bulldozer and get it landed you know
flattened it won't be possible because bulldozer cannot enter that area between >> right my is my thing right now. >> Mhm. >> Because we don't have dimensions here. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> We have no dimensions back here.
>> Uh I Okay. I'm not an engineer. >> I mean I see 58t wide >> but I'm not sure how deep it is. >> 5t plus 30 ft. So 70 I have about
45 ft there. I'm looking at what I'm looking at is a site visit on our part to take a look at that back area. Have you mark off >> back area is next to impossible to park
or to approach with the bulldozer or you know anything. That's that's not possible at all. Well, I still would like to see it the property. I'd like to see where you're parking your cars and mark that off. You can use You don't have to use paint. You
don't have to use sticks. You can use rocks. Here's this. >> Okay. Okay. >> Here's 8 ft here and there's 18 ft here. So, I can see >> we can see where the cars are going to park, how they're going to maneuver out. >> Yeah.
>> And do that. And then I want to look at that back. >> Yeah, we we we did that. We when we were, you know, cleaning up and uh throwing out old materials. Uh there was a what do you call this? Minivan kind. It's not a minivan. It's a the 14-seater van. Now, we could the other car could
pass easily. The smaller car could pass easily when the 14seater is being parked there. >> I guess >> but it'll be a little tight. I would just mention that, you know, as a owner of an apartment building, you're bringing people in. If you're restricting who can
be um able to rent your property based on the size of their vehicle, I mean, >> that could be a hardship. >> Well, I don't have a statistical records or data up to here. The people who would rent those places would not be that rich to get a Mercedes.
I'll take your comments, but I'm standing hard on visiting the site to take a look at this thing. >> Well, I I would like to see how two cars can transverse side by side in that on that >> side. >> And in fact, uh my before I purchased my
neighbor wanted to have a what do you say called easement or something like that so that we both are benefited but our purchase deal did not go through at that time. So he was in a rush probably he must have been waiting for this >> be a neighbor on the left hand side or the right hand side >> on the left hand side >> on the left hand side
>> as I'm as I'm looking at the property it's on the left hand side and so yeah they they made that when you said like you know is there a binding wall or something like that it was a hilly so he made a layout he also had requested similar thing he's the one who
suggested me ask for zoning board they should give you but they want all this process be uh I didn't know that it will take more than 6 months. Of course, I lost my time. I I lost my mother so I had to go back and take the situation to start.
>> So, um so so I guess one of the other things so so as the chair is stating a site visit by us would be beneficial to be able to visualize it, see it, get a better feel. You know, we can look at this on paper. Doesn't make sense in my mind, but maybe it does in in the field.
I think the other thing though too is that um there's still another element being the U city engineer. So I would imagine that he's probably going to want a plan that he can look at in order to comment to us on any concerns he may have as well.
>> Okay. I mean whatever the zoning board suggests because I I cannot make any rule or law here. I just I'm the receiving end. >> Well t typically we we would get a plan designed by an engineer. Yes. civil engineer that that shows that it works.
>> I understand your concept, but I don't see that it works. >> Yeah, I I do agree. I did ask about this uh uh you know, should I have to be what do you say certified plot plan or something like that? >> Yeah, sir. >> So, yeah, I said no, you can show us the
pictures and diagrams if you have. I didn't have it that time, so I came for the second time. So, >> yeah, just going off memory, I thought that we had requested that you have a professional design list. Uh, >> and I'm not saying you're not a professional. >> Yeah, I'm not a professional.
>> Okay. So, so I I thought, you know, again, we're going back many and months here cuz I think you we started with you back in November. We said we need a >> we need a plan by a competent person that knows how large a parking space is, that knows our ordinances, that can design this as
close as you can get. That would work. >> Okay. So, do I have to come back another hearing now? >> Yes. >> You will have to set up an appointment with the city engineer. >> Mhm. >> Uh Mr. Oliver and Mariela can help you
with that tomorrow. >> Mhm. >> And then get him his comments. But you're looking at a timeline here and I'm sure you want to get going. >> Yes. >> So, you have to wait for Mr. all of those comments cuz you'll have to take
that data and actually to an engineer at the same time and you're going to need an engineer to come out here and take a look. >> Okay. >> And their measurements. So >> time is important on your side. >> I'm sorry. >> My pocket has already already holes.
>> Yeah. >> The engineers the the the the engineer or I don't know what they call I know they're engineers. I forgot the term. They are super expensive. They charge you about like three and a half thousand to $4,000 a day for a day's work that we
come. >> So So the other thing that we would be looking at or the city engineers be looking at is you got to do another curb cut. You already have an existing driveway on one side, but on this other side you don't. >> I don't have Yeah, I will I'll make it for you because you requested that I should
>> Well, that that all has to be worked out. I mean, the designing board, >> the the grades, the slopes, the the the material crossing the sidewalk, all that has to be factored into your plan. It's not just I sketched this out and I'm just going to open make an open. >> I I do understand what uh chairperson is
that Yeah. suggested that I should have had a professional drawing. Probably that could have solved today. Uh I didn't think of it ahead of it and I took it for granted that you said, "Okay, it doesn't have to be professional if you have some. So, I'll bring it next time." So, that's what happened. Okay.
>> Yeah. So I'll follow your suggestions whatever it is. But the the the doubt that bears in my mind finally okay I may not get you will reject that or you will not get it. The engineer says that it's not possible. So what do I do with the third floor? Do I demolish it or remove the first floor and keep the other two
hanging? >> Well >> because as I guess you have to sort through that but could you make the second and third floor one unit >> and for a larger family? Uh there are no the stairs are outside the home so we
cannot the there are three separate doors and three separate entries. >> Yeah, I I can't design for you. >> I can actually you could probably make one unit bigger. >> No, I I I I understand your point. But see, it's a floor. It's not that they
are in the horizontal space, right? They're vertical. In that manner, if I have to build a stair, it has to be inside the home to call it as one home. that it's not possible. You know what I'm saying? >> No, you lost me a little bit.
>> So, there's a home above the home. >> Yes. >> Right. So, if I have to call it as one family or one unit as such the the stairs have to be within the home on one door and entering to the second floor
also that does that will not happen at all. That cannot happen. I mean the structure I think it's about 100 year according to the records. I don't know when they built the third second or third or fourth. I I don't have any access to that part. But as is
nothing the wood and everything suggest that they're at least minimum 50 years old. >> Okay. I I guess you'd have you you'd have to have a professional look at the building to see if it could be made into just a plain old two family >> or you move forward. We're trying to make it
>> if it is two family. I don't need you. I don't need to >> You don't need us. You don't need >> It's already a two family. >> Yeah. It's already a two. >> So you don't need us. >> Yes. No, I don't I need you. Not in this purpose. >> Yes.
>> You know, I think you've got a lot on the table here. I think there's a number of decisions that have to be made. >> Okay. >> You want to go to two family, that's one decision. >> Two family has already been there. There is I I believe you would say status quo. We are not changing it. >> So it's a two family now.
>> Yes. Correct. It's already there. >> Are you renting now? Two families. >> No, >> it's empty. >> So Oh, no. It's it's it's I think there was a fire or something when I purchased. So it's we need to rebuild it practically. >> So >> rebuild means the interior. There's only bone structures. There are no dry offs
and insulation. >> Okay. So, no one's living in it. >> No, no one can live also. There's no plumbing proper. >> So, do you want to keep it a two family? You want to try and make it three family? >> So, I want to make it a three family because it is three family.
>> Okay. Then get your parking. >> I can make the parking of course. But >> well, you you think you can. So, but you need to show us that you can make it work. >> So, so you're going to hire a professional engineer to design your parking. So
>> and missed all of them. >> No, no. Design the parking on the paper or on the on the physical structure. Physical structure you don't we don't >> they will go out to the physical site. They would measure everything. So you need >> and then then they would put on a piece of paper to scale with numbers on it that shows us how wide everything is.
>> So as I get it, you want me to get a professional drawing that can convince everyone, not just you or me or so. everyone who would look at it. Okay. Yes, there is enough space for the parking, the maneuvering of the cars and access. But one thing I want to remind
you, we hear verbally. There's no recordings. There cannot be a pickup truck at all. This is for sure. If there's a pickup truck, it gets very difficult. Particularly, you know, some let's say a mom comes and she wouldn't care if there is another person. She will either bang with the mirrors or
anything like that. But for cars, passenger cars and SUVs, yes, it's easy. >> Your your engineer who designs the site will show us if it works. >> No, >> this one I made it. >> I know. >> It's not an engineer. >> Okay.
>> And I mean it may come up with some shortfalls even with the engineer. >> Okay. >> But then we have the numbers. We can see exactly what it is. >> Okay. And then we can look at what can we do to make this
happen. >> Okay? >> You know, you may be coming up short a little bit, but we'll look at that. And we know what's going on on Oak Street. >> There's not a lot of parking spaces in these apartments. >> Yeah. >> So, we want to make it that as least
intrusive as possible. But now that's where the engineer is going to come in and he's going to lay out some different scenarios and say this one works best. >> Okay. >> But he's going to give us a document. You do have measurements but not all
over the place >> because it was made by me. I whatever I can think I have made. I want to show you that I have a 60 ft or 58 ft of width and 30 ft is already been sitting as a home and the length is 100 ft. >> So now you have to fit these cars in
here. Yeah. >> And meeting zoning. >> So that's where the engineer is going to take you. >> Okay. >> If you don't know an engineer, if you're speaking with Mr. Oliver, I'm sure he can give you a couple of names. >> The city engineer. You mean? >> He's the city engineer.
>> But he can recommend me. Okay. >> He's not going to draw this out for you. >> Okay. >> He's the city engineer, but would tell >> but he'll recommend me outside companies. We can do it. Is that correct? >> I'm sorry. >> He will suggest me that who can do it for me. Well, he may he may be able to give you a few names. He can't say
picked so and so. He may he may say I get that >> that these three or four people have done work. >> It's hard to you know we are not machines. It's hard to separate the human element from the office body. Right. So that's why I said he suggests
he suggest he suggest for pick it up >> and if he's going to give you multiple names >> Yeah. >> that allows you the opportunity to interview them. >> Yeah. and let them see it and let them give you a quote. He's not going to tell you what it's going to cost because in
engineer A may say $1,000, engineer me two may say $1,500. You have to make the choice on which engineer you're going to use. >> I I I can fully understand that. Yeah. Yes. I will I'll try doing it. Now, in
this process, I've already spent how many times did I pay you? too many. >> So that's why I think it's now is a good idea to meet with Mr. Oliver, get the engineer out there, come in with your finished product,
>> okay? >> And say, >> so >> show it to us. It's exactly here's what it is. >> Follow me. I'll make the points whatever you suggest now so that when I come back I have checked all the checklist that you suggested so that I don't fall short from the suggestions you make
and the city engine uh the engineer he's going to look or she is going to look at the city ordinance and see how they can get it to fit to match the dimensions the city requires. Now it may come back with one or two
spaces not quite to the city ordinance but it'll be noted on there and then that's what we have to look at. >> Okay. >> But it's going to they have to make sure it matches as best they can. >> Okay. And does the engineer have to come here and give his witness or opinions
then again because I have to hire him for the time also or a a descriptive or a narration with a you know written signature on his would suffice you to the >> I'm I'm sorry I'm having difficult time
I'm I'm a little hot here is a fan runner so I'm I'm >> so what I'm asking is okay I'll get the uh suggested drawings and permits done. Now, do I have to bring him him or her to the zoning board to explain what he
has done? What can it be done or can it not be done before the zoning board? >> So, >> because that that also have it's about the time and cost and everything. is the hotel. Um, what they're suggesting is for you to have the register plan ready, >> okay,
>> with everything in order, >> then submit it over to us, okay? >> So that way we can forward a copy over to our city >> so he can make the appropriate comments. >> Okay? >> And or if you also need to meet with him to be able to discuss any changes or or
any suggestions that he might have and then he will submit his opinion to the board. So they can make that decision after they evaluate >> and you can you have the option to if you hire an engineer after they meet
look at it if Mr. all of that they meet. And if you wish to have that city, that engineer come in, not the city, but the private engineer to come in >> and explain what they're doing. And a lot of engineers or attorneys will come
up and put it on the screen and they'll show all >> the plans up there and they can point them out and you you're option if you want to be represented that way. >> Okay, sounds good to me. At least I mean that's doable. That's what I meant on my
part. Uh yeah. So the other question probably I asked this question earlier also. Now as you said >> I'm out of here. I wanted to help you out but I'm out of here. You guys can't respect my time. >> I was here on time for the >> No. If you want to respect my time
that's ridiculous. >> If you want to help I can still request them. >> You are getting screwed because the up the street they don't care about the dimensions of parking spaces. There's people who car whatever they want there. >> There's someone who I guarantee you
didn't put an engineering thing up and they paved the one two up from him the day before or what two weeks ago and I guarantee they didn't come here and have any meeting do any engineering survey none of it. And then the person next to
it that you gave a variance to you don't care. They don't pave it. They just left it. And those people have been parking in this guy's property all winter long. And then there was someone had uh carbon monoxide poisoning in that property as
well as a result of the parking problem. >> Good luck. >> That helps. That helps. I mean, now you know the problem. And in fact he was in my favor like you know if that's that's where I was about to come to like in case let's
say you say that okay we don't give it okay and because you're sitting on the body you are honored by selected board or something like that I have to listen to you I have to obey correct in that case what do I do with the third apartment as you said you have to make
it one how do I do it I can't hang it on the air there has to be some solution for And the solution has to come from you as a board directors. And >> that's why we want the best information we can to make the best information that
hopefully can meet and what you're looking to do also protect the neighbors and protect the city. >> That's what that's our goal. >> I I'm with that. I mean, I don't want to spoil the city either. Okay. It's it's a matter of economy, jobs, and so many other things. Yes, I'm with that part.
But you know retrogressively because you can't go back into the history like why did we build this way? to be we have to go with what we have now right and what how best we can adjust with the existing one that's where the solutions come and to make the board be convinced yes I'll
get those drawings to be done what else do I have to do that's what I was making my list like you know what else do I have to do I I'll call an engineer I'll I'll go to the city engineer discuss with him about my problems or solutions and take those numbers or the phone numbers of people who might do that job
for me and I'll submit them to the board or to the city. You said city. >> Okay. So when you submit documentation, you submit it over to me. >> Do you? Okay. >> And then when I receive it, they receive a copy as well as the other head
departments where their opinion. >> Yeah. I don't want to come into the mechanism of it, but I I want to see where is my entry point. Entry point is Miss Mara. >> So um if you allow me, Mr. Chairman, when the gentleman was speaking on term
because it wasn't time for a butters to speak in either opposition or in favor. Um, each case is individual. You might know your case, but you don't know everybody else's case or situation. >> So, that's why we don't want to mix. We
don't want you to have the thought in your mind that their case is the same as yours because it might not be the same. >> No, no, no. I I never argued about that as that. He threw some light on me, right? you know as I said look I can't go back and prove them or I can't bring him and say prove it but as I said this
is what the situation is from here on earth we have to go forward right because as I said we can't go into the history again >> I think the best thing and I'm going to say this and I don't think we need to beat this to death because this is what the board's looking for
the exact dimensions are going to be >> okay >> you're engineer >> I'm not I'm technologist but >> if you hire an engineer >> okay I will I They're going to give us this information. >> Yes. >> And they know the ordinance. They're going to look at it >> and do their best to fit it in and
everything. >> Like I said, it might come out short on something, but that doesn't mean you're going to be not denied. >> Yeah. >> We can look at how we can work this out. >> Yes. >> Yeah. I I I fully agree with that part. You know, just that I wanted to make sure that before I leave from here, I
have the list of ideas whatever that is need to be done when I come next time. >> I think you got to talk to Mr. all of them the city engineer uh then he can give you some names then it's up to you to hire somebody and you choose not to do that route then
your best thing would be to withdraw because the board's not doesn't have enough info to work >> yeah that's that's where we were struck right if I withdraw then what would be the situation of the property there it's a physical property >> how many times we have to give the same information right to Mr. to tell we've
been going over this for half an hour. >> Yep. >> And we keep repeating repeating ourselves that he needs an engineer and I think we've given him enough time. >> He knows what needs to be done and I
think discussion should end >> right now. >> Yeah. Yeah. Before I still have a last sentence. Yeah. I still have a last sentence. I've been asking about this. What if you deny and what would happen to the property? >> Because it's already been there. It's a physical structure which has been there
for 100 years. >> All right. So, so you've applied to for a special permit to make this a three family dwelling. >> Yes. >> So now if we deny you >> Yeah. >> you still have the right to an appeal to court if you think we made an error or
you can use the property as whatever the zoning allows you to use it for. >> The zoning allows a two family. Okay, we'll try we'll try whatever best. >> To go back way to the beginning, this
was a three family. It has gone more than two years as not a three family but a two. So that grandfathering went away. >> Now if you want to go to the three family, you got to go through this process. If you turn around and say, you
know, I want to do two, >> you're done. It's over. You're going to get it. Yeah, >> I hear that. Yeah. >> So, >> I get your point. I'll try doing whatever that is best. And at the point where I am convinced that I can still go ahead and convince the board, I'll come
back here. If not, all will take it as it is. >> Correct. >> Now, we're going to go to the final question. >> Yeah. I know you have to make a decision, but do you want to continue your case the next month? >> I'd rather put a new one because it's
costing me every time so much or so. So >> that is correct. It is $150. >> Yeah. So $150 if I'm not ready on that day, I have to pay another $150. Instead, I can put as a new request for next $300 because every cent counts for me. have because I'm paying an interest
on the property or the loan that I have made and I have not made any 10 cent improvement on that because I need to take a permit before I do anything to seek a permit. The commissioner says that I have to get the zoning board approval completed. So that's >> Mary is going to give you the date. She
needs your decision on whether you want to continue or withdraw. If you miss that date, you're going to go into July. So what's the date for next for June? >> For June meeting the June meeting I believe
>> June 16th. >> June 16 I think. >> Yeah. But what's the last time you can take >> when would you have to file a paper to put it in the news? >> Second week of May which has already passed if I'm not mistaken. >> Yeah. And also you require me to submit
before 30 days before 30 or 17 days before the 30 days. I mean it's some substantial time before >> uh they >> so you have to make the decision what you want to do if it's already in the paper we got a problem. Yeah, but I I'm
not getting a conclusive answer for my question. What would it if I withdraw? Number one, like it will say go two and then how would I continue to get the permit? I need a permit to do anything now. Even if I have to return two family, I need a permit, right?
>> You can talk to the building commissioner on that. She'll tell you >> if if you're going to make it a two family, you don't need us. >> You don't need the go talk to the building inspector. >> Okay. So, I take a two family permit. I complete the repairs or whatever that I
need to do and then I come back. Okay, I already made this. Can you give me the permit? >> You could come back later and try to get a three family. >> Yeah, >> there's a solution that >> by right you get a two family right now. >> Yeah. >> Talk to the building commissioner
Melissa Manchester >> McDonald. >> McDonald. >> Talk to her. She'll take care of you. >> Okay. So that sounds more better for me because I'll have I can buy the time to do the engineering drawings and other things. >> So if if you do not want to pursue the
three family now then you should be withdrawing your application. >> Okay. So I have to decide the withdrawal today now >> you have to submit a letter to Mariela and just say I'm withdrawing my application. >> Okay.
>> Now that's not easy because there's two ways to withdraw. >> Okay. You can withdraw cleanly to say I'm withdrawing. >> That means you cannot come back before this board for two years. >> Okay. >> To go to three. >> You can withdraw without prejudice.
>> Then you can come back anytime you want. >> Okay. That's that's what I >> She will tell you how to handle the withdrawal >> based on what you decide. >> Awesome. >> Okay. >> Yeah. Excellent. Thank you. >> Have a good night. >> I will. You too. Thank you again.
>> Thank you. >> Well, that that has been a very what do you say? Fruitful discussion and uh you know helpful tips because you know many times when we go places here no next. >> You know what I mean? >> Yes I do. But now
we need to we're going to need to make a vote now to either continue or withdraw without prejudice. So what are we doing? I'll go with the withdrawal with prejudice so that I have time and I'll continue to construct or you know repair the material.
>> Are you going to withdraw without prejudice? >> No, you said with Yeah, vote out. >> Without prejudice. >> Without >> Okay, we have to vote on that. >> You have to vote on that? >> Yep. You're going to give a letter to Mariela. >> Okay. >> But we're going to vote on your request to withdraw without prejudice.
>> Okay. Does the voting happen now or today or some other time? >> Right now. >> So, do I have a motion to >> So moved. Do I have a second? >> I'll make a second. >> All in favor? >> I I opposed. None. Withdrawn without prejudice. Give her the letter.
>> Thank you. Thank you very much. >> So, I'm learning the judicial system here. I mean now that we have returned the court the question is there could be so many other people who would come with this kind of a request
and activities so how long do they have to wait for everything like that they bring attorney or anything you know as the other person also said that okay there's nothing happening nobody came nobody driver so I mean it's not that I'm buying it's argument for I'm just
looking at see I spent 6 months maybe there were part of my for by my mistake there were two months but the other four months just went by without any you know every every time I have to submit it's a month
>> yes so so you you just withdrew your application to us >> we're pretty much done talking to you now >> as I said court is ajourned court is >> court is adjourned >> okay >> so Now if you want to get working on making that a two family apply for a building permit with the building commissioner.
>> Okay that's also done. Now my question was something different again I'm asking as a people as a town resident or citizen not as a board member zoning board members what would happen every time I have to give come here for 30
days why should I not have a content okay the gentleman or the property owner would give me a drawing we will we'll go through that before the committee and if we need to then we will call in for a personal discussion not that that see this is happening every in every city 30
days again. There's a mistake again. >> It's not about the cost of the this one. It's about the time. >> So you you're you're done with us for now unless you reapply to make it a three family. At that point, you should come
in with a nice plan for us to look at. >> And we've already told you about the engineering >> seven times, >> right? They haven't during the whole meeting. They finish with your piece. >> We have
Okay gentlemen. >> There's no no correspondence for us. There's no additional business. >> Do I hear a motion to >> second? Do we have any meeting minutes? >> Yes, we have minutes. The folder is at the bottom of the
bottom of the cab. There's only one that hasn't been voted on. The other ones are dismissing a couple of signatures. >> Okay. This is the meeting minutes that Mr. Cornet has to sign.
So that's out. >> Was that from last month? >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> March 17th. >> That was not here. >> This one is August 22. I guess the 22.
>> What's this one? >> Nobody has signed it. >> Jim Billow that. >> What's the date on that one? >> April. >> April 22. >> Oh, April 23rd. I don't >> Okay, that was a meeting I was not here at, >> right? >> So, what was this one here? You said was
that only waiting for Mel? >> This is March. >> March. So, I was here in March. Did I already sign it? >> Yes. No, you didn't. >> Okay. >> And this one was >> Richard. Is my name on that? I participated by phone, I think, at that meeting.
>> You are not on here. >> Okay. >> Bob Rice, you're on this one. >> This is actually waiting for Ray La. That That's you, right? >> Yes, sir. >> Most of the time.
the one with the pink uh sticker. I think that's the one that hasn't been voted on. >> Was that the April one? >> Last month. >> Last. So, someone's got to make a motion. >> It can't be me. I wasn't here. >> I'll make it.
>> See what we got signed. You're on top. So, make a motion to accept the April 22nd meeting minutes. >> All right. Someone's going to make a motion to Is that what you said? You make a motion to
>> I make a motion to accept the April 22nd meeting minutes. >> Lori to uh those lines. >> So, who else was here in that meeting?
>> Billo, Mel, and me. >> So, >> we can get that next time. They don't have to be >> They're going to have to be next time. >> They don't have to get signed off that quick. I'll make a motion to adjurnn.
>> Second. >> Any comments, questions? >> Yeah, you don't want to hear the comments. >> Ray Ray looks like he stepped over. He's like >> All those in favor say I. I
>> opposed. No opposition. Jim, you got a set. No, that's Lauren. >> You done recording? >> Motion made. Meeting adjourned. >> Sorry.