Are you ready? >> Ready. >> Ready. Ready. >> Okay. I'd like to uh call to order tonight's meeting of the Gardener Zoning Board of Appeals. Um, tonight is a is March 17th, St.
Patrick's Day. So, I all wish you had a great time today. We had one individual visit our office today to discuss, but he was having a great time. So, hopefully he is feeling better tomorrow.
Okay. So before we begin tonight, I'm going to go over several of the ground rules by which this ward operates. Many of you or some of you have probably heard it before, but nothing's changed. So we're going to go over again to remind you. All right. In gardener,
four members out of five. And now that I'm going to say that, I'm just going to interject here. As you can see, there's five members here. Uh finally, we have a board at full capacity of members. uh our new fifth member Jim Bilo uh just
recently was appointed and joined us. Uh so now we can operate as a five member board and as I'm saying only four members on a decision need to vote in favor of for it to be approved. Okay.
And excuse me. Uh the board can operate with four members. doesn't need five, but if you've got five, then you need four to approve uh approve it. Thank you. If you have four members, you need all four to approve.
So there's no majority, three, four. You know, the majority is four, five. Okay? So applications will normally be heard in a sequence and they appear in the public notice. The board is under no obligation to adhere that sequence. All
hearings shall be open to the public and no person shall be excluded on he or she is considered to be a hindrance to the workings of the board. An applicant may appear in his or her own behalf or be represented by agent or attorney. The
applicant or his or her representative shall present the case to the board. Representatives of the city shall be heard. Abutters to the property present shall be heard. Those in opposition to the application will be heard.
Members of the board uh who are here in the case may direct questions at any time to the chairman. The board must must render its decision regarding variance of the request within 100 days after the application was duly
filed in the office of the city clerk. The board reg excuse me regarding special permits must conduct a public hearing within 65 65 days after the application was duly filed in the office of the city clerk. The board must render
decision within 90 days after the closing of the public hearing. So that was not a total of 165 days. 60 to hear it, 90 after the public hearing closes. So that could go out further
than the 165 days. All four members out of five of the board must vote in favor of the variance of special permit for it to be granted and approved. The right to appeal the decision of this board is provided for in chapter 48 of
the zoning act. The information is available in the office of the city clerk. No variance of special permit or extension, modification or renewal thereof shall take effect until notification from the city clerk for 20
days have elapsed after the decision has been filed in that office and no appeals have been filed and is recorded in the registry of deeds of the county or district. The board requested each per each person identify himself or herself
as to name an address before addressing the board. Sitting on tonight's hearing to my far right, Lori Widow. Next to Lori, Richard Haynes. To my far left, our new member, Jim
Bilo. And to my immediate left, Mel Cornet. Mel Cornet. and myself, Ray Lefonda's chair. The meeting will be taped and videotaped. Does anyone object to the videotaping?
Show there's no objections. Okay, let's get into this then. First case before the board tonight, it's actually a continuence. It's continued several times and it's um
Nanda Patil 69 Oak Street. The special permit is to change the use to relieve for three multifamily home. It is currently two family originally was three has been
vacant for more than two years on one of the apartments. So, he has to come back before the board uh to get a special permit if he wants to open up the third apartment. Okay. So, I'm going to call Mr. Patel.
Is Mr. Patel in the audience? Is there a representative for Mr. Patel? Okay. I knew there wouldn't be at least I had information this afternoon that he would not be able to make it tonight.
uh they are filing an extension to April paying the fees. He is also all caught up on the fees that he owed us. Uh so what the board needs to do is consider approving or disapproving an extension to the our
April meeting. he is he's all caught up uh according to the individual who came that they're preparing their documents and that he will be present in April. So do I hear a motion to approve the extension to our April meeting for Mr.
Patel for 169 Oak Street? >> So moved. >> Second. >> Thank you. Okay. All those in favor I >> I. All those opposed. Mr. Pat Mattel's
extension has been approved to our April meeting. The next case before the board, Stevenson A 0 Street parcel ID R22-25-2 request relief from zoning for decks and
front setbacks. Mr. That sane Asian or attorney? >> Yes. >> All of those? >> Not the not attorney. Uh owner of the owner of the project. >> Go ahead, Mr. S. Why don't you um
as we as you know this is also a continuence. We've looked at the original drawings that came in and there's been some changes on setbacks and things like that. So would you please address those >> um for us? >> I don't think it was a continuous We we
approved. >> We had approved, >> but now he's coming back for a bear. >> Sir, you're correct. We did approve you. I stand corrected. >> Sorry, >> I spent too much time with Mr. Patel earlier today. So, you now have made some changes
to your original submission that we approved. So, you want us to consider reapproving with the new changes. And I guess to make it easier, we got people in the audience really don't know what
we're talking about. And um we've got the changes here in front of us. So if you would go over the changes that you want to do and why >> and you because you're changing your setback requirements. Uh you're not
changing really your side setbacks, I believe. No, I think it'll be it'll be easy enough to go through these one at a time and hopefully that'll hopefully be as clear as we can be by the end of this. >> Yeah, let's you know, if you can go
through each one of them, what the changes are, what they were, what they're going to be, and why you have to do that. And I'm just Mariela, are we going to put the screen on or not? >> Um, he decided not to. >> Okay. He would like to present what he
has. He brought something in. >> I wish I was a little bit more technologically literate. >> Me too. >> So the >> Well, I wish you had a lot of plans. >> Yeah. >> Using my phone to use the camera to zoom in on what what you're trying to do.
>> Sorry. >> Okay. So uh the the reasons that we are requesting uh the relief on these setbacks u starts with the geometry of the lots uh the grade differentials and the topography on the site as a whole
just makes it extremely difficult those three specific things to to make things work and fit and have proper means of egress or better means of egress to the bu to the units. Um, we also, you know,
the changes are relatively minor um and don't negatively affect uh the neighborhood or the community by granting relief from this. Um, so if we start I'll start on plan left and we'll work to plan right. Uh, the units are
numbered 1 2 3 4 5 six left to right. So if we can start on the the left hand unit, that'd be unit number one. Um the original plan we had a proposed deck that was actually inside of our setback setback lines and didn't need any
relief. Um sorry for context the second page of the plans that you have just kind of shows an interior layout which shows the means of egress for the units and why some of these changes are being requested. Um, so on unit number one,
the placement of the exterior door, the means of egress for the unit, we're just asking for some relief to slide that that deck on unit number one back further on the lot, further away from the street, further away from the neighbor. Um, just to allow for a better means of egress and better access to
grade. Um, any questions on the first one? >> What's the distance? How many feet? What are you asking for on this corner >> on the like the bottom right hand corner? Bottom left hand corner of the deck, >> right? This this is your setback line here.
>> Yes. Correct. >> Okay. >> So I if it if it helps all the decks are 10 ft by 10 ft. That's our our request. So they'll all be consistent and it's just placement of a deck on each unit
according to this. Um, >> so about five feet on this one. >> Yes, that would be that would be a very correct correct statement. >> So as a followup question to that, you do not show any stairs on this. So that that the stairs not come into the setback at all.
>> No. So the stairs would be inside of inside of our existing setback. So we wouldn't need relief for stairs. >> So which way the stairs going? >> Stairs towards the street. >> This way. Excuse me.
>> Ma'am, you'll have to state your name and address if you're going to speak. And normally >> I don't allow questions. after he goes through his full presentation. With this being six units and there's a couple pieces moving, I
would prefer if someone has a question to take it at the point your question comes up because there's no guarantee that you're going to remember some of the questions by the time you get to unit number six. So, could you please state what your question was?
>> I was concerned >> and your name and address. >> My name is Phil. I'm at down the street and I'm next to one. That's when I was asking he said the stairs were going to be towards the street and I just wondered which street was he talking
about or >> did you hear her question? >> I did. >> Okay. >> Are you satisfied? >> Uh I didn't hear all of it. >> Okay. She was just clarifying whether or not which street we're talking about because it's parallel with uh Tempy Boulevard and Emerald. But for I guess
for all our purpose discussion tonight, Emerald is the frontage. >> Correct. >> Correct. Correct. >> So anytime we're talking about a street, it's going to be Emerald Street. >> Yes. Correct. >> Yes, sir. >> And I will ask if you do have some more questions, these gentlemen have any, please come up to the podium because
it's very hard to hear you. >> Okay. Are you well set now? >> Yes. Thank you. >> Okay. Mr. S, go ahead. >> Mr. Uh sir, are you going to provide us with a set of prints at some point >> that highlight the uh what you're you're asking for? There's
>> 5T estimate on this uh deck, but there is a lot of markings here and there not a lot of measurements. >> Correct. And I'm more than happy to to do that if we can agree on the variance.
I have no problem having the engineer put pen to paper on that. all your changes in here. >> So if if I can several thousand dollars to have the engineer put marks on the plan.
>> So I if we >> doesn't matter just even if it was handwritten in here this is 5 ft set back is what you're requesting. >> It's not the prints I'm really overly concerned about. >> It's the amount of relief we're talking about
>> right because it goes into the decision. >> Yeah. I think that's >> where you have the numbers. I'm looking down at three and a red line, then the black line below it. And that's really the movement that you want. >> Correct.
>> So, if we can, what I'll do is each unit what I'll do is I can give you a number that can go into the decision if that's at least a starting point for >> a document. Like I said, even if it's this one marked up >> so that u
>> just write it in the column and say >> units 1 2 3 or 456. It's a 5ft setback change from now let's see 30 ft to 25 ft or whatever it is. >> Okay, I'm just going to save you from having an engineer
>> okay >> take a whack at this again. Okay. So, unit number one, um you can see the location of the proposed deck in red. So, we would request approximately 5 ft of relief on that deck
to be to be moved further away from Emerald Street. Um unit number two, the setback line is really about a foot outside of the building footprint. So on unit number two, there's a very a very substantial
grade on the lot. So grade level in the back is about 10 ft above the f below the first floor level. So what we wanted is relief so we could put a deck at first floor level for that unit. So the topography and the shape of the lot affect that one as well.
>> So number two the entire deck if >> number two would be number two would be 10 ft of relief. Okay. >> Um, unit number three, it's the same thing. The setback is about a foot off the building. So, we
would need 10 ft of a relief from the side setback on unit number three to accommodate to accommodate that deck >> 10 ft. >> Yes, sir. I would also request that you document
that. I mean, it's one thing for us to take notes. It would be nice to have a document from you stating exactly what you want. Not just the prints, but just >> Absolutely. We can make that happen. >> Yeah, you can submit that to Mariela.
>> Um, so moving on to unit number four. Uh, unit number four there, we have about 8 ft of setback to work with on that one. So, we would need approximately 4 ft of relief on unit number four.
That's in the sideyard. Sideyard. Yes. Correct. And then unit number five actually falls completely within the setback requirements. I just put red lines in the paper so that everybody knew that we wanted to go from a ground level patio
to a first floor deck. So that is a by right >> that one's okay. >> That one's that one's completely okay. >> Um unit number six far plan right. Um we can put a 10 by10 deck in there and it
it's really pretty close. Um, we're just asking for maybe I think on that one if we had 3 ft of relief, I think that'd be more than enough to accommodate the deck on unit number six. >> Yeah, that's much smaller.
>> Now, what's going on with the front yards? I see you got >> three. So, the the front yard, if if you look at the second sheet that I I printed out for you, and these are a typical floor plan for the units.
The highlighted door from the entrance way into the garage. If we don't have the relief, we don't have a door from inside the unit to inside of the garage. >> What do you mean relief? Um, so that
extra the 4T of relief that we're looking for to extend the footprint of the building forward to Emerald Street accommodate gives us the ability to put that doorway. >> So you're making the the building 4 ft longer. >> Uh, 4T deeper. >> 4T deeper.
>> Correct. >> So then the front of all of these would need a front yard set back. >> Not all of them, but pretty close to all of them. That's why I kept them all on there. >> So, a maximum of five feet of additional building footprint.
>> Correct. And that's just to the Emerald Street side. And and the reason I said five is because if we go four, the the intent is 4T. That just gives us a a buffer in construction. So, we're not coming back here for inches if we
have an oops somewhere. >> So, there's 254. Is that the setback you're looking for? So 254 would be uh 252 would be the smallest the smallest front yard setback and that
would be on unit number two. Uh no relief is required for unit number one. Uh unit number three we would request uh down to 25 ft 4 in uh 25.4 4 ft. And then the units four,
five, and six would be relief down to 25 ft, 25.6 ft. And for kind of for context, we we don't lose any parking. Um it's just a shift from a little bit more garage space, a little bit less driveway space. So we
still maintain fully compliant driveways on all the units. None of the driveway layout changes, none of the access to the site changes at all. It's just just that shift forward and that's to that's to accommodate the means of eress for our for our garage.
>> So you're making each unit 5T larger >> uh 4T and it ends up being approximately 80 square feet. So the size of a a large bathroom size of your table right here. Very good. So, did you come up with a different
design from what we approved prior? >> So, the the layout is the same. The only difference was the depth. When we when I got into doing the layout of the units inside the door to the garage didn't fit.
Didn't fit. And that was the >> But did you make your garages deeper though to accommodate that? Because landing garage still says it's 19 ft deep. So, was it 19 ft deep to begin with? >> Correct. They were, but it pushed everything back into the building.
>> So, you lose 4T of your kitchen and living space inside. So, you lose like you lose 25% of your kitchen. >> So, now looking at this plan though, your this garage is 8 ft forward of that front wall. >> Correct. >> So, if that was 4 ft back, you >> No, but there's remember there's a deck
on the front door, too. There's a 4ft deck inside of that space. Okay. So, could the deck not be flush with the face of the garage? The garage is back to where it was supposed to have been. >> I want to make sure I get the get the
question right for you or the answer. >> Well, he's saying that he had to push this 4T forward in order to get this door in here. You got an 8ft wall. >> So, what does 4T do for you? >> Yep. So this this four feet it goes four feet here and four feet here. So we move
this wall 4T. This wall 4T the whole front wall moves 4T. Okay. Want to make sure we get that. Yeah, that makes sense how I said that or so. What's not shown in there and I apologize the is that there's a deck
that's in front of each unit. There's a deck in front of each unit. So, I think that might be what's me off. There's still a 4ft offset because the deck still has to have that that relief. >> So, I'm just going to scribble on mine and people won't be able to see me. But
prior that you're saying this garage is back here, >> correct? Yes, sir. >> So, that would have been here. >> Yes, sir. Correct. >> So, why can't you still have a deck there? 3 ft. >> That's the intent. Yes. >> So, I guess I'm not following why you
had to come forward four feet. Because >> because you saying you're saying you can't pit that door >> because that wall moved forward too. So that wall move that wall back 4 ft. >> Move this wall back 4 ft. >> Yep. >> Okay. >> And it's right at that foot stage. Right.
>> So the original was this 4T back. Four feet back. >> Have you built this these before? >> We did. And I think that we had we had the additional the additional depth on it. The additional depth on it. And I thought we I thought we were going to be
able to make it work with this layout and it just it just didn't. That's why we're we're asking for the building. Okay. Anybody else? Lori have any questions? >> I don't. >> No. >> No.
>> Jim. Okay. I think what we need, Mr. S, is you verbally given us some changes here, you know, and everything. Uh, I would like
to see or the board would like to see a recap, a synopsis of here, what the changes are. I mean, you've got them here, but what you just like you spoke with Mr. tanks that you moved it and everything and so we can
look at and read exactly what you're doing. Does it does the description below like on number three? So like we have front relief setback currently from front setback request a maximum of 5t of
additional building footprint. The remaining building footprint will remain the same. It's I I I I know what you're saying. I just want to make sure I if I have to come back with something, I want to make sure it's
more clear. Yeah. You're not changing the decks at all. They're staying at 10. >> Yeah. All the all the decks >> 10 by 10 >> with what I what I with what I laid out. Just a 10 by 10 deck on each unit is So,
was this one large large parcel you carved into two? >> Yes. Correct. >> Okay. So, so you created two new lots. >> Yes. Correct. >> So, so you two created two compliant lots and now you're going to try and fit something out here. So, now you're before us. I'm just going to speak
candid. Now you're before us looking for 10 variances. So I I guess what I'm going to be looking for is what is your hardship on two brand new lots then that what what what makes this so
unique and special that our setbacks don't apply to you. So I I believe under master law there's like three or four criteria that you have to meet. Shape of the lot, topography, soil conditions and not a negative detriment to the community. And
I believe that we demonstrated the lot, the lot shape of the lots, the geometry, the the topography, and it it's not a negative effect to the community. I think we we're in keeping with we're in keeping with the zoning
the zoning code and the relief, you know, like we laid out, it's just a it does create a hardship and I think that there's no negative detriment. So, but those those key things that are matched in the law are the geometry, the shape of the lot, the topography. >> What what's what's odd about the shape
of the lot? They're almost rectangular with a couple not quite rectangle areas, but it's not triangular shaped. Well, if you look at, you know, take unit unit six as an example, the setback goes from the front
corner, maybe a setback of 5T off the front corner of the building into the back corner, which might be 12 or 13 ft. So, that shape because it's not because it's not a parallel line like on unit number six, that would be a shape issue
to the lot. Same thing with unit number one that, you know, the way that those those setback lines, the shape of it, you can see right there, it's just not parallel. Does it have anything to do with the rear
of the the angle of the property in the rear? >> Well, that's Yeah, the topography. >> The topography, >> correct? >> You want to talk a little bit about that? So the topography having some the ability to move those a little bit does
make it easier for construction. And on those the one unit and unit number two the topography doesn't allow us to have a second floor deck nor does the shape of the lot. So is a deck a required means of egress or is that a convenience factor for the
person living at that they have a deck >> unit number two would be convenience >> just makes for makes for a better unit >> because I thought that yeah so you kind of answered because I know when you first came through on this three family I pointed out that you were right on the edge of all your setbacks and that you
had no room for debts or minimal room and you said that you for a second means a egress. They can go down to a basement and they can discharge out and that no was designed. Correct. Okay.
Save my points. >> Anybody else? Any comments or questions? >> None. Okay. >> Well, I guess I'm still a little hung up on this because I don't believe this the write ups are actually of exactly what
you want. Uh, you know, you've got various at least three different setbacks up here in towards the Emerald Street side. >> So, the front setbacks are all the same. So, it would be one front yard set. got
one is 252, 254 and 256 >> and you'll be quiet 30. >> So all I'm saying is just whatever write up you give us I'd like to get specific as I have to be and it's going to be
difficult based on what I see do that with the information we have. Do you follow what they're looking at? Cuz if you require 30 ft front and you're showing us
anywhere from 252 to 256, that means you're short just shy of 5 ft or you don't have your 30 foot crunch. >> Yes. And that that's Yeah. The request
for the relief. What I'm just saying is just if I'd like something written up that that's very specific about what relief you're looking for. I mean this this very difficult to fully settle.
>> Yeah, I understand. May I speak candidly or ask a question candidly? Is there would there be a consensus to consider this based on shape, topography,
the gradients of the lot? Um, just I don't want to waste the board's time. If I'm going to come back and take the time and do a write up and if if we're not if we're not on the same page, then we'll just we'll move forward and we'll try to figure out how to do the best we can with what we've been approved.
>> We're on board with what? >> Say it again. >> We're on board with what? I just there's five board members, four have to vote yes. I just want to know if there's a general consensus that this would be granted with proper documentation.
I don't want what I don't want to I would hate to come back waste the board's time, anybody else's time if there's not four of you that think there's, you know, the ability for relief based on the master. >> Well, right now I'm not going to call for a straw poll. I think we need to all
understand what's happening here. You know, you've got I'll say setbacks for your front, not 30 or 25 ft. But I really don't see in here
or I haven't heard from you why I need 252, 262 for this law. You've marked them. But why? Why are we doing this? >> It's for means of eress.
>> Better and safer means of egress for the the units. >> Okay. >> But you see, nowhere on here do I see that. >> I You've told us. >> Understood. Yes. >> You see what I'm going after? >> Yes, sir. >> You're making changes.
you know exactly why you're making the changes and you're doing it >> understand. >> But I can't read that on this on this plan and why I mean I got this plan weeks ago and I'm looking down at it and I'm going
well there's a line with a red three under it. What does that really mean? You also look at three front relief setback from front relief from setback request maximum of five additional
space. >> Why do you need the relief? >> Did we I thought we put that into our packet that we had all that written up already. >> My written description of what you're asking for.
>> Didn't we have like this whole write up? Wasn't this all given to you guys? everything that was submitted if everything that you submitted >> the barbarian request narrative was this not in the packet >> in that I think Mr. Mr. Chairman, I think
that that lays out, you know, the background of your first decision and our request and what it was for and the reasons why we believe that we're in conformance with mass general
law to request the variance. I I saw >> description of Mary's request, >> but after I went through it and looked at your print, it was hard to connect this to this. That's my point.
>> So, I understand and I do understand the mass law and what you're trying to do this, you know, and you're basing it on the shape, topography, and so on. This standard definition of variance, so I'm okay with that.
What I'm not okay with is I heard a lot of things verbally that's not documented. >> Okay. Just just for clarity, did was that in there? >> Yes. Yes. >> Okay. All right. So, what we can do is
then I can Okay. All right. I think that we're we're getting closer to being on the same page. What I can do is I can let me tie each one of these separate things to our narrative more clearly. Yeah, we'll come back to you again.
>> And you know, you put in here that what what you're actually I know what you're trying to do, but it'd be nice to say this uh setback of 252. >> So, be very specific. So, unit number one, deck will request a relief because
of these these criteria under national law. >> Understood. >> Okay. >> Make life a lot easier if you did. >> Understood. Right. >> There's a lot of information there. I kind of sometimes I it's connected in the the builder's mind and it doesn't
get the paper. So, I apologize for that. >> Exactly. >> Okay. Understood. >> I mean, we've been to your parcel, >> but we haven't really walked it walked it cuz it was very much in trees, >> shrubs, debris,
you know, and it would be hard. It's hard to envision. and you hadn't even sub submitted this at that point in time. So, you know, we didn't say mark off the corners or anything that cuz that would impos impossible. But if you could, you know, break it
down and really think what you just spoke about with Mr. Cornet, that's what if you can do that, you can do that. >> Yes. >> So, so may I ask you another question? So again, you you created two new laws, good performing laws to meet the funds
to meet the area. So when you decided you want to build on something, did you not look at what our setback requirements were to to design a building that meets the are we going to requirements? >> Yes. I' I'd be not truthful. I didn't say that we did take that into
consideration whether literally or implied. We should have done that. So the answer I have to agree with you. So, I'm not going to disagree with you on that. >> So, this is where I'm going to have a hang up on this, which I'm sure you're picking up on it. Again, you have two
brand new lots, conforming lots. You can fit something on here. And I struggle with variances on new builds because you go into it knowing I have a lot that has this much area, this much frontage, and I have this much area, and I have to design something to fit in
there without coming to ask for relief because what's the purpose of having setback requirements on an ordinance >> because I can't fit what I want on there that I just come and ask for relief. That's where I have hang-ups on variances. if again if there's an existing structure there and you're
trying to add on because mom needs another bedroom or something. Well, that's a that may be a criteria that I could be satisfied with, but um you know, you ask for a little bit of an opinion, but so I'm I'm kind of just going to give it to you that again lots you can fit something on there. Maybe
not these buildings, but again, I'm looking at you're asking for 10 variances. You're not asking for one little corner somewhere. You're asking for 10 variances on on these buildings. Just be just be honest with you. >> Yeah. You're really creating your
issues. >> Yeah. >> By the size of what the property I'm build on and you know that's not the purpose of zoning and say I got a good lot like Mr. Hank say but I'm going to squeeze five houses on that and I need X
number of variances to do that. That's not the purpose of zoning. It's understood. Okay. Now >> I'm only one person. It's five of us total. No, I understand. >> And then next month I might have a different different opinion. I'm just telling you where I stand today looking at this. >> No, I understand.
>> Let me do this. What I do I need to request an extension or continuence >> if you would like to come back next month. Yes. >> Okay. Can I can I request that? >> We can extend that if you wish. >> Okay. >> And then what I'll do is I in in the Mariela, you have the extension forms.
>> They're right there on that green folder. Could you pass that over to Marel, please? >> Thank you. >> And out of respect to the board, we will take a very close look at each one of these and see if it's if there's a way
to not need that, you know. So maybe we can reduce that number down or something else. So >> yeah, >> we'll try to come back and not request something that's >> if we can address it by unit by unit >> and look at it, but it's very hard. I
had a hard time going through this. >> Understood. >> All right. >> Thank you guys very much. I appreciate your report. >> Thank you. >> Any questions at this point? >> Um, we need to make a motion to continue.
>> We got the new guy here. He's changing up all the electronics and everything else here. >> Be a bigger table. >> All right. So, we we we need to make a motion. I need a motion on the floor to
approve the extension to next month. >> I make a motion to approve this Mr. Sini till next month as it per his request. >> Second. >> Okay. All in favor? >> I I
>> opposed. No opposition. Mr. S, you are continued to next month. >> Thank you very much. Appreciate it. >> Thank you. Okay, next item on the agenda
is case number 2026-3-1. Special permit. Walnut Housing Trust. Uh, I'm sorry. Walnut Heritage House Trust 63 Walnut Street parcel ID R27-22-20.
Convert twostory wing of existing building into a twobedroom residential coin laundry and storage and utility space. Additional parking for
two-bedroom unit. >> Sir, good evening. >> Good evening. My name is John Gerenlau. I'm I live at two Cutter Lane, Westford, Massachusetts. I'm one of the owners, Steve, my partner here, and I own some of the property. We were here just two months ago when uh in
the end result, let me give you a little layout here. What happened? This was the final plan from 2 months ago that was approved for the existing building with seven park eight parking spaces, one for handicap. There is seven uh single
bedroom units that were in this right here. So it required seven parking plus the one handicap. And on those plans, it was labeled that this wing over here was phase two. Well, after we did we did approve this plan right here. This is the outcome of last
time meeting. And we said, Stephen and I got to talk and said, "Wait, why are we waiting for phase two? Let's just do the whole It's so much more efficient to do the whole thing, get the project done." So, we spoke to our architect and started working up plans for that. We had several meetings with the building
commissioner who we from that meeting, we kind of went home with the challenge and we started looking at all the different ways we could possibly get two more parking spaces on this footprint for the two bedrooms there. two parking space at that bed. And really, quite
frankly, with the commissioner's help, um we came up with this final plan that it's almost looking us in the face. This is what we're looking for. Now, we change it to really the same plan essentially with two spaces on the side right here. There's room right there. Two, actually, it's more than enough
room, but two spaces on that side. That >> your access driveway, >> pardon me, >> your access driveway is to the left of the two spaces. >> Correct. Right here. >> Okay. >> Right. So we >> I thought that driveway went right up against the building. >> Pardon me.
>> I thought that driveway the entry went >> well up to the space. >> If you look at it now, go to the site and look at it cuz like it's kind of a this runoff water run off. It just looks like the driveway is a very very narrow strip, but really it's much wider than it appears because of the mud and the
it's just it has to be >> we were very intimate with that. >> Yeah, it's brought back with pavement and we're doing that too with the plane. Yeah, it looks visually it's it's not pretty, but >> by by measurements it's just fine. >> So, um what and what the >> There's a lot of wet lands there to the left.
>> I'm sorry. What? >> There's a lot of wetlands to the left. >> No, it's not it's not wetlands. What it is >> a lot of drainage. >> There's a lot of drainage from up here. This this is high up here and there's been runoff that come down the cap basin right here. And so, it finds its way to the low point which is right there. This
going to be all channeled and managed properly once this is done. um with the help of the commissioner and she suggested, you know, really, she said, John, you you probably really this is probably just an amendment of the previous approval, a special permit because we're not changing much. We we
went from that this one here. It's identical plan. Nothing's changed except for adding these two spaces right here to be able to accommodate the two needed for that uh that second floor. By the way, the second floor here, this is a twotory
phase two identified. Second story is where the two-bedroom apartment will be. The lower level, which is access from down here, will have a a laundry area for all these tenants. A law well, they're going to have their own laundry upstairs, but for these single bedroom tenants, we'll have a laundry area in
here. There'll be some storage lock, you know, storage bins or cages and an owner's utility closet for the water heaters, etc. Sprinkler system, that kind of thing. So, that's what's being done in this year is let's just get it all done. And I knew we had to come and do something with the zoning. And so to
on the side of caution, we submitted a whole new application for a special permit. Subsequent to that, after all this work, commissioners said, you know, really this should probably just be an amendment to the previous one because they were just adding two spaces right there.
>> Adding two spaces. They're adding two spaces plus a unit and a coin off laundry. >> Well, we're not adding it's not a public coin laundry. laundry for just these tenants and there' be no spaces because that's these people who park here. >> But you're you're adding another unit though, correct? >> Pardon me. >> You're adding another unit.
>> Second floor right here. Yes. A twobedroom unit. >> One unit or two. >> One two-bedroom unit here. >> These are all onebedroom units. So with the seven onebedroom units plus the two, you need 10 parking spaces. That's the
nine plus the one accessible unit. So, we're we're asking to go from the what was approved to this former here. Just a a change in the the final layout. Add those two properties.
>> Yeah. So, your biggest change, you're putting on one more resident unit, >> correct? And where is the we'll call it the washer, dryer, laundry for for them or the new unit in their
unit. They have plenty of room up there. So they'll have their own dedicated washerd dryer in in their twobedroom unit. This and this, by the way, we have a conceptual plan with our architect, but we might re relocate the bathroom because existing plumbing there now. We might reconfigure the bedrooms cuz
that's what we're working on right now is how to configure the floor plan of that. But nonetheless, it'll be they will need two parking spaces. We have we're not adding anything to the outside building. We're not looking anything for uh for uh offsets or anything like that at all. That's all the same. Just adding
those two spaces on the left hand side of this plan. Two spaces for these people right here. Again, I my excuse me, my biggest concern is we were at that site many times in the past. >> Oh, I understand. Yes.
>> And I I those that area to the left, my left. >> Yes, I see. >> Um was very very muddy and very soft. And it' be interesting to see how you're going to build a driveway in
there. >> Most of it's a driveway, but there is a section. and I'll have to get into it. Now, I'm a civil engineer, licensed a professional engineer. We'll make sure we have good compaction in there, good soil. So, if I have to dig out if there's, let's say, muck or mud or anything that's just silted up there, we'll remove that, replace it with a
good clean gravel, then then put the asphalt down. >> And how are you going to divert the water from the back? Just out of curiosity. >> Well, there's a there is a natural fluid along property line here. It's actually I think there's a a swale along here, if you will. >> There is. >> Yeah. And if I remember
>> well I I think when you have but when you have like mud up here and even though if you got it's kind of flat right through here. So when we put this in here that the the what was there as a swale will be I think it'll be reconfigured by just nature I suppose. >> Were they going to put some rip wrap rip
rock in there? >> I have no knowledge of adding >> one time they've mentioned that. >> That was not on this planet. >> No no no. There was a conversation we had when we were there and we saw all >> of the first >> how wet it was.
>> Oh, it's wet today. I mean, just with melting and the runoff, it's just it's the worst it's ever been. Yeah. And matter of fact, in the in the late summer, we purchased this property in October. It wasn't nearly as bad because it was much drier. >> So, I think that there's wow, there could be some mucking along here, but
it's not extensive, I don't believe, for my my professional thinking. So, I guess the question is, should this be a new special permit or should we amend the previous special permit? Uh, the commissioner thinks it should be just an amendment, but she said it's good to go before the the board to earn
the side of caution to make sure we cover it properly. I could go either way. >> Well, either either way, you need to come to us whether it's an amendment or a >> I I think an I think amendment is easier, isn't it? >> No, it's not. So you still have to address the same issues. >> Yeah. So it doesn't it's moved I
suppose. >> So have you seen the comment from Rob Oliver who was a city engineer? >> Um I don't think so under the zoning permit. >> Yes. >> No. >> All right. So Mr. Oliver wrote on March 13th, he said, "The provided parking
plan does not provide sufficient existing conditions or dimensions dimensional informations to deter to demonstrate conformance with chapter 675 zoning article 7 off streetet parking, loading and drive-thru standards. Parking plan should indicate parking
space locations, dimensions, driveway and aisle dimensions, etc. I would recommend the board require a survey or engineered plan to ensure that the proposed parking layer will satisfy zoning requirements for the existing conditions in the property lines. This
plan should clearly define parking spaces and striping and meet all ordin ordinance requirements. The provided plan is not sufficient. The parcel is almost entirely covered by building and pavement. Any increase in imperous area
for parking would like likely make it non-compliant with the zoning requirements for maximum law impervious coverage for a multif family use. In parenthesis, he says it's 60% max. >> Yeah, the original plan uh did show
these uh it's in the approved permit. It showed the lines and the parking exactly dimensions of the size of the parkings as I said. So that this right here that's not this particular this not this exact thing. this graphic so you can get a good picture of it the image. So those those on the original application
original uh approval plan those are shown dimensions where they are the offset from the building and then all we're doing is just adding these two here. Now if that's >> if you want me to add these to >> that's all great I think you said you're a civil engineer right? >> Yes. Yeah. This is just a picture so we
can so you'd have presentation ease but I could I mean the original plan shows the dimensions and I we're talking with the commissioner she thought this would be very simple just add these two spaces right here we had all kinds of plans iterations of where will we put these two spaces and working with the
commissioner we thought that this by her recommendation this is the best >> well it may be the best but I'm reading the comments from our city engineers >> I didn't see those comments and didn't I'm hear the first time now of >> his concerns I just want to get clarification on something first. >> Sure.
>> I see those two spaces you're adding. Let's go to this of the your left side. Those two blank spaces at the end. Blank spaces up here. >> Oh, down lower. It's part of the
building. >> This right here. >> Nope. You almost made it there. >> That's the phase two. Twotory wing right there. This is all one story right here. Right. >> That's two stories. >> And you're going to put how many units in there?
>> One. >> One. >> One two-bedroom unit. >> One two-bedroom unit. Correct. And where will the laundromat and all that be? >> It's a it's not a public laundromat. So it's not a a mixeduse building. It'll be downstairs. The lower level is an access
door here for for all these people to have access to the lower level. >> So storage and washers. >> Yeah. Just storage bins, washer dryer, you know, changing t kind of thing. And and a uh utility room for the water
heaters, sprinkler. Yeah. I don't think I was here for the first part of this one. >> No, I wasn't. >> And I I understand what's going on. >> Yeah. >> And it was the big issue we had the first go around >> pretty much was that drainage on as I
looked at the plan on the left side. >> Yeah. >> Also that back hill >> it was in the back wall. >> There's the wall. >> There's no there's no wall here. This is a slope right here. But this is a short retaining wall here that is to be constructed.
>> To be constructed. >> Yes. Well, part of our once we got our building permit and the zoning hall approved, we'll start construction. Of course, we don't do a thing until it's approved. >> Did they the were all those trees removed from that slope in the back? >> Yeah, it's it was all brush and low growth trees before I I only saw
pictures of that stage. Yes. But I think it still means dressing off. It's kind of rocky and I want to get that flattened out and our plan is to put some lom in there and to shoot it with the the seed. I I thought that belonged to somebody else. >> It does. Patrick Hanula. >> That's what I thought. >> Yeah. >> And he's agreed to all.
>> He has agreed to it. >> No. >> You have writing? >> No, not yet. >> I would suggest that it would be a good move. >> Well, I'd like it to, but I I suppose I can't I guess I can't make been a good neighbor. I think Steven's talked a lot
of times. He's been a great neighbor and a helper. Steven was involved in this project before I was. But if he refuses, I if I have any recourse. >> The wall was in some state of disrepair. >> Oh, this is a mess right here. This is this is I call it collapse for all he
through the applicant last time said, "Don't worry about it. I'll take care of it." >> I I've got and we may work with him if he if he will take care of it. We we'll pay him to rebuild or build a new wall. If he will, then fine. And I remember stating clearly
that if he is going to be the engaged contractor, I would want a written contract. Exactly. What's going to be done, >> the cost, every detail that you normally would do
on hiring a contractor to come in and perform a duty. I do I would watch out for loopholes that might not have happened. >> I appreciate that. Um I I'd never met Patrick before and we'll be
selfperforming a portion of this the sheetrock and the carpentry work and we do have a a fire protection a good quality fire protection designer and installer. He'll be doing that portion just we a licensed electrician of course and plumber well we very professional.
I'm as I said a professional engineer and uh my experience I have I worked for the largest the 10th largest construction company in the country for 25 years. I was the international VP for operations. I have done my own excavation support systems for in Boston
at at uh not specifically at um the uh well some of the big dig in Boston but also in the Los Angeles rapid transit dig district you know 80 90 ft deep excavation walls right now my intent is to put this in as gravity wall so the actual wall will be
a simple simple process it'll be safe if Patrick isn't going to do the right job according to my quality all the standards. I'll need to find someone else to do it ourselves. I can get the license. >> We won't find that out immediately. >> I I I'm I'm also I specialize in
contracts my whole 20 45 year career in construction. So I have a pretty good contract that I was insist on using. However, if again if I can't come to a comfortable bringing with them that I'll just find someone else. I I will I will pro
provide the design. I'm probably my own design for the the retaining wall here. It'll be stamped, professional engineer stamped, submitted into the building property with the permitting process and um I'm going to supervise the installation. I'm going to be there to watch it get installed. That's just my
way. My wife says I'm crazy, but that's So, you're going to have and I'm just asking questions. I want to make sure these things are going to happen. You will have a contract with him for the repairing of that wall. either a contract with him or a different
contractor or will self-perform it. >> Okay. So, I'll rephrase my question. >> Yes, >> you will have a contract with a contractor for the repair of that wall that will be approved. >> Yes. >> Also on the
I thought I heard that Patrick may be doing some work on his property back up here. He had done some he did a lot of clearing already, >> but there's a little more I to my liking a little more shaping and say moving some of the rocks and boulders so that we'll work with him. I can't see why he
wouldn't want us to shoot put the lom and shoot with hydro seed in there just to stabilize the slope. It'll look nicer. It's >> No, you just made an assumption. >> I did. I did. >> And you know what that can do to us? >> I know. I know that. I would make sure my recommendation or the board's
recommendation was that you would get it in writing. I understand if he doesn't do it doesn't go along I I can think of three ways right now. I mean it visually it isn't pretty but visually isn't going to kill any of us. I don't think I don't think
so. I would just if I had to build a a short knee wall right there to to kind of restrain any uh rolling down uh rumbling coming down onto our parking area. That's easy and cheap. If I had to do that, I would do that. I'd rather
just lom it and stabilize it and, you know, set it and forget it. But >> just to share my ass, so Lori and I, maybe you're staying up with this unlock. Why Why are we talking about a third party? Do you not own that retaining wall that's falling apart? >> This one here? Yes, we do.
>> So, who's who's this this third party? >> We're talking two different areas. Retaining wall, slope. This is the messy slope is all overgrown up here. That that Mr. Hanula who owns that property, he has done a lot of grubbing there. We got rid of the the uh the trees and the
brush there. So, it looks much better than the pictures I had seen. The retaining wall is here. It's our retaining wall. It's his slope. It's just past the property line. This is inside. It's our retaining wall. We have to rebuild this retaining wall.
>> Right. And I am pursuing that. >> So, who's this Patrick guy you keep referring to? neighbor. He owns you see him on the >> Dan. >> He owns the uh >> American >> Mini Mart if you want to call it. >> Yeah. >> So, how was he involved with your retaining wall?
>> Pardon me. >> How was he involved with your retaining wall? >> Cuz he's a construction guy. He said he'll do it for us >> before my involvement is brought. If he doesn't, I I can find somebody else all day long. Or as I said, we could easily self-perform this construction. It's not
It's not rocket science. >> Okay. So, so nothing's hinged on on a neighbor replacing their wall. That's your wall. >> My wall, correct? >> Okay. >> Do I understand that the plan was approved previously, the special permit? >> That's the picture, if you will. What? >> So,
>> approved as seven units. So, now you're coming in for an eighth. >> Yeah. You know, in that plan, it showed phase two. And again, after we had our meeting here, Steve and I got talking and I said, why don't we just do phase two? We got we can get the funds and finish it all off. not not come in in phase two a year or two from now. Just
get it all out. Now, we already had the zoning meeting and approval. So, it was like a few weeks after that. We started working on it right away and and this is what we came up with working two meetings with the commissioner and brainstorming and that's what we >> Yeah. And Lori, just to be clear, the
reason we're pushing on the left hand side where those parking spaces are >> extremely wet and uh mucky, I guess the only way to say it, beyond that. But what we approved the
the entryway was paved and is closed and it didn't migrate into that area. So now when they do this, it'll be migrating over to that. >> Okay. that uh >> so really it's the parking that we're here to look at.
>> That's all I was looking at. >> And Mr. Oliver is not satisfied. And in order for us to proceed, I believe that Mr. Oliver needs to be satisfied. >> I see. Yes. >> With a plan. >> Yes.
>> Okay. I'm just >> that's that's where we're going. >> Okay. Yeah, I I'm aware that you own that wall, but why I keep bringing Mr. Haniel because the last applicant, he's the one
who so willingly said, I'll do it for you. I'll build it and all that. And I was pushing for a contract between Mr. Hanula and the applicant. We never got that. >> That's it. Well, that's in the appro as
I remember the approval of the the special permit says that we will get that contract. Doesn't say here. It has to be submitted before we >> Yeah, it didn't have to be. >> No, we we'll have a first of all we need before a contract is a clear professional engineer design
professional engineer stamp design of that retaining wall. It must be a PD stamp in Massachusetts. It's 10 foot high. >> Oh, it's 10 foot tall. >> Oh, sure. The retaining wall is 10 foot high. I've done them 60 70 80 foot deep in in earthquake area Los Angeles downtown LA.
So I you know I know about the loads and how to to put together the inside. That's a gravity wall. It's a simple wall really. I don't want we only have about 10 12 ft beyond that wall in the property line. I don't want to put in any mechanical stabilization. I don't want to get over there and get
approaching Patrick's property and working in it and just it's so much easier to do it for a 10ft wall, a gravity wall. I know what you're saying. I'm looking at Mr. Oliver is saying and to me it's pretty simple stuff
and you know this is the the two new vehicle parking that makes a change >> right >> that makes a change on the drainage or cover on that side >> well the I don't think it does the cover still going to be there >> well it's not it's not
>> you're going to have snow removal you know those cars wouldn't be there or vehicles so they can go in and out. >> Well, no, you you could go in and out with even with those cars parked here. But even still, think of it. These cars parked here. You know, storm rule is not
going to be easy while all the cars are parked here. But we have to manage that as we plan on owning this property. We're not going to renovate it and sell it. We're going to renovate it, rent it, keep it. So, we believe me when I look at the the concept designs, I'm looking at what's it going to cost us to
maintain. Even changing the light bulbs, I want it to be easy. I just think those two cars is going to put some impact on that side. Um I hope you don't you won't increase I don't think you'll
increase the snow area up on that top right hill where we've been storing snow. Can we dialogue it for a minute because I I have six or seven different concept to put together. This is the one working with the commissioner that we thought was the the easiest to get can approve it before anything else. My idea
is also putting maybe some in front here, but that requires a curb cut. And so now we're getting into I don't think that you gentlemen ladies like curb cuts. >> It's love curb cuts as long as they comply with the ordinance. >> I think it'll be a variance because I don't think it will comply.
>> I don't think it would either. >> Yeah. So we want to leave it as is planned and leave and just use that existing curb cut. I looked at putting cars in this way and this way and you know how do you put them in there and you could you could put them in on angles like this. You have your 14T
minimum clearance for this the oneway lane but it it it's you don't still can't get your 10 spaces. It still doesn't work. >> It's it's kind of ugly. this this plan. I came back to this this plan for the for the the first seven and I said, you
know, that is the simplest and it works. And then we working with Melissa, we said she she said, you know, put them over here. Looked at it and the the what we had for the the rightway here said that would work. >> Now, are you would you pave that area
the the entry? >> Well, it's all paved right now. No, no, I'm saying would you repave it because you're >> We intend to repave it all and so yes, pay them right to the property. So we'll >> Oh, you need five feet. >> 5T I I say we're going to pave repave where it's paved not, which is
>> Well, that's basic. >> I don't know if it's paved if it is already paved to the line or not. I didn't >> I don't think so. It shouldn't be published, but we are we have bids from a subcontractor who will come in and remove the paving and stabilize it and
put the paving back where it was. Same paving, >> but I'm looking at the setback and the that first parking space fairly narrow and once you cut that that driveway in there, is that going to violate the five ft you need to your property? >> So, that access aisle rest on a on a
>> our intent our intent is to keep the I don't know. I don't know where the Pton is right now. How far to be 5 ft off the line, you think? >> Oh, no. It's it's more than that. Yeah, >> I go to the full 5t there. >> Anyway, it's a point. You need to take a look at it. >> Yeah.
>> What is paved now on your property? Are you planning on changing that pave and increasing it any? >> No, except for the comment this gentleman made about over here. I'll check that out because if it's say if I have I can get up to 5t off of here. If it's saying eight feet off there right
now, I would want to go to that five feet, but I I want to keep the paving. So, I maximum maximum paving there. >> So, in terms of all the parking, proposed parking, there's going to be no change. That's all paved. >> Yeah. >> That's going to stay all paved. >> Yes.
>> And that's why I only question all those comments. The parcel is almost entirely covered by building and pavement. We've just said that any increase in imperous area for parking would make would likely make it
non-compliant. So, we're not increasing >> any parking. >> So, not going to make it non-compliant because it's already paid >> the pavement, right? >> Well, we don't have a plan that shows existing conditions nor proposed.
>> Yeah. >> And that's what the reason I was poking over here on the side because you have some paving up close to the building, but now you're going to park in that paving. >> So, I'm assuming you're going to pave farther off. >> Our plan was to repave.
>> Our plan was to repave what's paved right now cuz it's broken up here and there. It's cracked. It needs to be >> understand. But now you're putting cars that you're going to need what an 8 foot width, 9 foot >> 8 foot. So you're going to have take
you're going to take at least 8 ft >> and how much of that to the property >> and I don't have the dimensions but I but you know v for me visually the property I've looked at visually >> I'm not bringing it up as an issue I'm just breaking up is something you need to look at. Thanks. What would you like to see on
this this plan that you feel? >> Well, I would like to see in existing kitchen conditions was paved and then I would like to see u how you going to reconfigure this to access around those parking spots. Show show where it pretty much what Mr. Olive is asking for. Show
us how you're going to access the site now and then show us your paving, your offset to lines for paving again. Show us an existing condition. What's there now? And then what what are you proposing? >> And you do you mean any
turning radius in there? You know, I mean, what's the difference between the top line of cars and the line of cars against the back of the building? I can tell you that the the distance between this is 35t 3 in building to populate
35t 3 >> 35t three that's like what 17 18 ft between the vehicles >> between say between these spaces >> yeah that was part of the original >> yeah it was the original plan
>> and that's that's already been approved >> so so what and again excuse me I was not here I was going to pro might have some questions that you think are >> That's okay. No, no, no questions. >> So, so the intent is I pull in and I parallel park and I come back on my parking spot and I back up and then head back out.
>> Back up to here. >> Yeah. Down. >> All right. And I can't read, but is that snow storage on the fire? >> That's snow storage. You have to retain walls. Yeah. >> So, that's the only snow storage for the whole >> Correct. Correct. >> Shoot match. >> Yep.
>> Don't build up fast anyway. So, yeah. So again, that plan doesn't show me how this all works. So it doesn't show like back to your point of turning radius to come back out and you know was the original driveway right where those two cars you had two new spots proposed and you came up
>> right in two spots. Yeah, two new spots. >> So that was the original access right? >> The whole the whole width is the >> whole width was access. Okay, >> I'm just going to jump ahead to snow. You have a sto snow snow storage area.
You haven't had storms like we've had the last couple weeks that will fill up. What's your plan as it fills up? >> I mean, you know, look at >> you know what's going to happen. >> I know, but I would hate to use this year as the
standard because look at all the the huge parking lots we have with, you know, 30 foot high mounds of snow. I mean, it's it's really it's crazy this year. So normal normal snow. I mean I think that it'll pile up, right? It will pile it up to right at 10 foot at the wall.
>> Yeah. So what's your plan? The rest of the country has experienced the same thing. >> Yeah. >> That doesn't mean that after this year it's never going to happen again. >> No, I know. >> I mean it could be you have to use loaders. You got to use loaders instead of just a plow loaders to get out of there.
>> Do you have a plan to pull less snow out of there? >> I'm not going to haul it to the Boston Harbor like they used to do in Boston. I mean, we have to put snow maybe here or up along the back here or I mean that's how it works when you have this crazy snow piles. Where else do you put it but out of the way?
>> Was that snow >> was that snow area approved previously? >> Yes, it was. >> Okay. So, my concern is the city engineer needs a plan that shows what's happening.
We need to see it. I don't think I can make a decision without the other departments being satisfied. >> So you you were talking about flow of traffic coming in and and talking about the the five foot off the pavement
there. So we see what kind of a lane we have traffic travel lanes etc. >> Travel lanes you taken that and they need to be marked >> marking of the parking spots. And if you're going to add >> the the original seven are marked on the plans that were approved. >> We're not talking about the original ones. Those were approved. That's not up
for discussion. What's up for discussion is your addition. >> Right. Right. >> And we're spending a lot of times talking about stuff that was approved. I'm more concerned about >> the changes and the impact on that. >> And the city and the engineers the same
issue. >> Yeah. I think you would have to refer back to the decision that was addressing that colon area and what the remedy was going to be and I know there was something >> conditions in there. >> No, I I have we do
>> that was the last meeting two months ago. >> Yeah. I think it would be worthwhile looking at the response, how they're going to take care of it if they haven't already, and would that apply to what you want to do that it would not impact
your use will not impact it negatively. >> Mariela, our applicants have access once they've done their application in the computer to the comments. >> Yes. >> From the other departments. >> Yes. Okay. They themselves attach all of
the uh fill out all the information and they attach all the documentation >> and any comments is public. >> Okay. >> Yeah. But did they get an email notification that Mr. Oliver responded or something or does he have to just go back in and review the portal to find
out what >> he will the applicant will receive notifications as it moves along and also if there's any comments he'll receive another notification as well. Now I just have to take a look and make sure that it was an internal comment. It was a public comment.
>> Okay. Yeah. Got it. So have you been receiving any comments from anybody? >> I with the building permit side. Yes. I haven't seen any comments from the zoning side from in online. So I'm concurrently actually just yesterday submitted the I think the
final building permit information for phase one and the dialogue there is great was back and forth. I've seen a lot of that. I've never seen anything on the zoning application side. Maybe it's there. I just didn't get a message or a notification. I don't know.
I get an email when someone posts something. I get emails say, "Hey, so and so posing something." >> You have any other questions or comments? >> No. >> No. That's just my concern as our engineer. The engineer comments, valid
comments, concerns. It really needs to be shown on the plan as to how you're going to satisfy the ordinance with setbacks, your access aisles and turnaround points. >> And I mean, I like the lining. Usually when we have parking, we have them light
line it out to identify it so people know where the parking is and where it should be. And then if they have egress in the entrance going in that's marked. >> Mhm. I mean I'm trying to think but
yeah there was there's only one entrance in egress here >> right >> in an hour so there's no signage that says entrance >> right >> there you go don't want but I think I would like to see the lining I
would like to address this most not I have you address most of Mr. all of us concerns and then get back to the board with addressing these points. Um you know the
increase in impervious area if you have an engineer or somebody look at that and they said what I'm going to do not going to impact at all end of story as we see it. Um I thought you put your hand up. No, I showed my glasses, but I was just
looking to see if anybody had a uh a zoning book. I just wonder what the required width of a access aisle is. >> I I'm just going to question a little bit of recommending the board requiring a survey. This the survey has already
been on this property. You had to have a plot plan and >> all that and the property was purchased. >> Yes. Well, when we purchased it, no. >> Pot here, but you know. So, it's >> Do you need this?
>> I don't see anything new on the propert. >> Okay. >> So, what I was wondering is by the time you pull out a 9 foot spot here and you don't pay 5T, how much is left to access around that? >> Yeah. Minimum aisle widths. That's >> I believe it's about 20 ft.
>> That's why we need to see a plan. >> I think so. Something like that. I can't Okay. Well, that negates my question. And the survey would show your travel routes, your cars, location,
parking. So, I would focus more on this, not so much on the wall. I mean, I'm concerned about the wall, but that's a condition. If we vote for >> that's already in the federal permit and we will comply with what was required in that federal permit. So I think that's
that's a historical issue. That's >> we'll do that. Of course >> the wall you know easy enough to say you will get a contract from the contractor >> on the wall and we don't care. I think you can get the feel that the
board is looking a lot of Mr. Oliver submitted. >> I will look that up now. I don't know why I didn't see the email and that but >> nothing from you meeting with Mr. Oliver and talking to him, >> you know, and maybe some things get
cleared up or true, you know, whatever. My thought would be to continue to to next month. That would give you a month to meet with him or do some additional work. >> I'd like to meet >> or put your plan out of what you're going to do.
>> A plan through us and say, "Here's my plan. Surveyor's coming in." Boom, boom, boom. They're going to line them. >> Mhm. >> You know, and it doesn't have to be done before we approve it. We just need to know what your game plan is.
>> Any comments to what I just said? I think you are spot on, Mr. Chair. >> So, >> your decision, sir. >> Continuous. I request a continuence. >> Good decision. >> Okay. Board members, have any further
questions? aisle 14way traffic. >> No further questions. >> No, >> I said it's 14. >> It's 14 ft. >> Yep. >> He's only half. >> If you got keep five seats paving off that, he's not going to make it.
>> I know. I don't believe you will. >> Yeah. Do it now. Can we make a motion? >> Not yet. >> We're going to in a minute. I mean, you are >> He's writing. I just want to finish that
first. >> Okay. >> Yes, sir. >> I think what we were just saying to is, you know, when they do the traffic flow and all the measurements, you know, see when the cars are parked on each side, different turning radius and all that to
make sure we're okay that >> I'll talk to the DP. I'll let that email make sure he's satisfied as well. >> Okay. >> All right. Well, the zoning order specifies all your parking sizes, your access aisles, your turnover points and
stuff like that. You might want to review that or go talk to the uh city engineer. >> Okay. Do I hear a motion? I make a motion that we continue 63 Walnut Street until the April meeting at the applicant's request. >> I second the motion.
>> Any questions or discussions? >> None. All in favor? >> Opposed? No opposition. >> See you in April. >> Thank you, sir. >> Thank you for coming in. >> Same to you. >> Same to you. Okay, let's see what else we got.
Z sign. I will just share with you. I'll read it quickly from the law department regarding my legal opinion regarding the impact of the permit extension provisions cons contained in the act relative to
strengthening Massachusetts economic leadership chapter 238 of the acts of 24 commonly known as the mass leads act on the status of X-ray expiration date of the special permit
issued in January 20, 2023. On November 2000 November 20, 2024, Governor Mara Healey signed the Mass Le's Act into law among numerous economic development measures. The act
includes provisions extending the duration of certain land use approvals, including special permits. This section 280 of chapter 238 provides in relevant part that any approval in effect or
existence during the defined trolling period which runs from January 1st 2023 through January 1st 2025 inclusive is extended for a period of two years from the original expiration
date. Importantly, the statute does not require the approval to be issued during the trolling period. Rather, the approval need only have been valid and in effect for any portion of that period, even only for a single day.
Applying these provisions to the special permit issued January 2023, but is EVA. It is my opinion that the permit qualifies as an approval in effect or existence during the statutory trolling
period. Because the permit was valid during that period, it is automatically extended by the operation of law to December 2027. Please let me know if the board would like this opinion supplemented with
citations to prior permit extensions acts in case law interpreting similar trolling provisions. Should you have any further questions, please not hesitate to call VTY Vincent to second.
So really that answers our concern on that parcel of property and some background on it. That property is owned by the uh garden redevelopment authority. They were proposing to sell
it to this company who was going to build the solar field. >> Mhm. >> And it's been held up for years now because of >> national grid. >> National grid now moving. So that's when the issue came up. Well, it looks like
it's supposed to expire. Nothing's happening. And then they said, "Well, don't worry if we exit 24. We'll take care of it." That's when I contacted the the uh city solicitor and said, "I need a clarification." And that's why that's the result of his
investigation. But it still has an expiration date of 27, you know, and I don't know how that's going to impact the company. Well, the thing that I would ask is we just went through that with uh the one on on Clark
Street where they they hadn't anything to the entry point off of Clark Street into uh that area. The judge came back and said, "Listen,
they haven't made any moves because they still are waiting for some type of approval from the planning board." So therefore, you can't expect them to start construction when they have no approval. >> So your approval is there. They have the
I think that was even a variance, wasn't it? >> And yeah, you're talking the Clark Street. >> Yeah. >> The Chickwin property. >> Yes. So the bottom line that got thrown back at us real quick because he said it's not the guy's fault. >> That's correct.
>> He's not individual. >> It's the same type of thing. >> Yes, >> it's not his fault. They've been they've been for many years. >> It's pretty clear in the act two years. >> He's covered. >> But I think what we need to do is be prepared
>> when the the 27 year 27 comes. what has happened and what alternatives are available. >> Well, the alternative >> we will attack it before it's over. It matures next week. >> Well, it that's again that's the reason I brought that up with the uh Clark
Street because what the the judge clearly said is that he was considering the fact that they had taken action. So therefore, there was no uh there was no termination whatsoever because he had
done all the work that he could. So even though there wasn't physical work done on the property, it wasn't that individual's fault because he was prepared to do that. So therefore, there was no vote taken after that. The the variance was still good.
And that's why I feel that's something we have to watch till 2027 cuz I share the same standing. He's completed all the forms, submitted everything to national grid and they
said we'll get back to you with the answer. There's nothing he can do at that point. It's out of his hands. >> Yes. >> So he's being stopped or stymied by national grid. I feel finish this. So in my personal opinion, you complete all
the forms, mail them in on time, they get there, you have started working on your project, even though it's not physically seen by a shovel going in the ground, >> but that's up for debate. So I mean,
>> I'm willing to send it in again >> in mid27. >> Sure. It's still not his fault. >> No. And we need now a legal opinion that says he has begun
even though they haven't said yes that he's complied with all the requirements. You know, they're the ones that are just standing there, right? What I would suggest is that individual is if it does come to the 27 come in for a finding
and that way you just you you can find whatever way the board finds but >> prior to it expiration. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. That way you just say listen our definition is that you've met your requirements. >> Yeah. So I mean we've got little under
two years. Who knows what's going to happen. Maybe We'll get this approval next week. >> Yeah, that's what we've been saying for 5 years. >> So, so should this legal determination be uploaded onto the portal for part of the records because or is there
Marielle? >> So, so we have a legal opinion on the solar farm was on Ker. Should should should you upload that onto the portal to to that address of that property? So, it's in there >> for the Ker drive. Uh for the cancer
drive, I can certainly add something new. Um as we just transition over to the online applications, um first of all, the one for the first case tonight was a paper copy application. Now the
second and third were actually a an online application. So this was our our last meeting having paper copy application. um like next month and so on will be on
the online uh but we will as you guys will as the members have a paper copy of how it is on the portal how they submit their application what they submit what any other head department's comment and
um any other uh incident will be recorded online and we'll have you guys will have a a copy on your pamphlets of everything that it's going on. I did want to point out that 63 Walnut was
correct. >> He did not receive a notification due to the fact that Rob Olivera made the comment internal. >> I saw that after you said that. >> Not not public. So what I just did was I logged in. I copy paste it and placed it
public. So now he should have received an email um with that comment being public and obviously forwarded over to him >> that way he would be aware. Now on the cancer drive I can certainly try and I will still need to put this on the
street file copy of this on the street file that we usually have. Um but I can certainly uh add something in the form for that. >> Yeah. Well, I guess as long as long as it's in their files somewhere that we've discussed this, there's a legal opinion. That way, it can be retrieved at some
point without us like, didn't we get something from the city solicitor on this? >> Yeah. >> And actually, >> we swear we did, but where is it? It's >> going to almost go back to when we approved the last extension that just, >> you know, to 2025,
you know, and that can follow up right after that. There's the letter from the city solicitor going forward. So why we haven't taken any action? >> I I do have a copy here of the email when I first requested information and
his response if you guys need to see that. >> Yep. >> Yeah. I think we got to watch. I don't know if it's happened, but somebody told me that property was recently sold to another company.
They provided no names for anything. >> So, >> which property >> we might want to try to check on the ownership of that property now >> is Sarah Kinser Drive. >> Yeah, I call it off of Kinser Drive because Kinszer Drive goes like this.
You go in and then you just turn like this and there's the property over there. Is it on Kinser Drive? I can't remember exactly. We'd have to look at the application originally. There's different lots. So, we need to verify and confirm the partial
>> just to make sure. >> Any other questions? Sir, >> do we get any kind of determination? >> K to have a public hearing application for >> I do have an answer for that. >> Okay. Please let me
>> and you I can discuss on that. We're all here. Okay. Mr. Hanks brought up a question recently that a constituent asked about a public hearing for a variance and
special permit. Pretty easy on the var uh special permit. 65 days you have to have the public hearing 90 days or at the close of the public hearing for a var special
variance. We've always operated under you have a 100 days to render a decision once the application is duly filed. The question was I think there's a violation because there should be a
special should be a hearing before 100 days. So I posed that question and it's so interesting and speaking with the gentleman I posed it to his first reaction is no Ray you're right it's the
100 days he said oh just let me look up and I'm going to say chapter 4A 216 or section he started reading it he said no Mr. Hank's constituent is
correct 65. You have to have a hearing within 65 days even though you've got 100 days to the decision of that application of the variance. >> That needs to be written in one of the documents we have. However,
there's no if you miss it, there's no automatic granting of the variance request. It's more of you have just violated this. >> So, it's just not a means of a constructive. >> Yeah, it's not a constructive grant.
>> So, it's like don't do it again. So, but I my response to the individual was not your individual that I was chatting with. Of all the variances we have handled over the years,
I said 99.9% of them all had a public hearing that time before 65 days. They're generally I'm going to say held within two weeks after the notification in the newspaper
which handles which happens very shortly after you submit it to the city clerk. So very seldom do we even get to 45 days. >> That would be a long time. So in terms
of us violating that provision, >> I would say the answer is no. >> I don't ever remember hitting 100 days. Never. >> I can't see
>> that. We have gone into 65 days >> because it handles pretty quick. >> No, we've never violated the 100 that I know. >> So the answer to your constituent, thank you. They were right. Now we know.
>> That's how we all learn. So that says >> sometimes you do the same thing over and over and you think you're right. All of a sudden it's like whoa. I reread that. Maybe it's not quite right. >> Well, it's so interesting when I post the issue. He came back and said, "You're right. It's 100 days." Oh, let
me just look at the section. And he goes, "You're not right." And neither am I. It was >> We learned that in our training. >> We did. >> We did. >> What training did you go?
>> The one that you didn't go to that Randy and I was there. >> You didn't go to. >> So there's your answer. Right. >> Who Who was the applicant with Kinszer? Was Was it Kier Sarge Solar?
That's a name I know. >> Okay. >> But I can't say that is it. >> It there hasn't been any transfers since 2023, but the last deed is from 2023. >> So that's probably correct. >> Okay. >> I'll just share this is a a humorous
thing. The gentleman who came in all the time for requested extensions. Great fellow. Knowledgeable. those was this product. >> Are we still being filmed? >> We're still in meeting.
>> Yes, we are. >> Yep. Okay. So, it's still done. >> That's the one that's secure side. >> Yep. >> All right. Do I have a motion? Anything else? I'll finish it after. >> Anybody any other comments? >> You say we have no minutes to approve. If not,
>> no. The one the minion to join >> and the other document was for an extension which uh Mr. and they took so >> second your motion. >> Got to pay a motion to adjourn. >> And you got a second, Lori. >> I did.
>> Any questions, comments? >> No. >> None. All those in favor of adjourning. >> I opposed. No opposition. Meeting adjourned.