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Video-1: youtube.com/watch?v=D1wD21eQIds

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Everybody, let's get started. First on the uh agenda is a public comment. Um, anybody in the public have anything to talk about? Nope. I have one letter that Mr. Alan Russo of 211 Betty Spring Road Garden Mass asked that we read. Says,

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"Dear Chairman Dumis and members of Gardener Conservation Commission, I unable to attend the April 13th conservation commission meeting as I will be away. The following are my comments related to the sledge landfill enforcement order. As you are aware, I made butter of the sledge landfill with

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my property at 500 Notre Dame Road. I continue to be concerned with the viable about the viable viability of the current land filled to contain sludge during severe rain events. Recent mass D studies indicate

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that wastewater sludge contains contaminants including PAS compounds. The current LFO has a storm water management system built in 1990 and this system was not upgraded as part of the vertical expansion beginning in 2016. The ex existing landfill has been the

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subject to two enforcement orders issued by the commission since 2020 including the current open enforcement order with an addendum issued on 2020 uh March 26, 2025. Mass DP's March 10th, 2025 wastewater

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wastewater facilities inspection form from Dan Kurpasca indicated that the facility is not in compliance in the comments section in included items that have not been addressed by the city. According to the Mccclure

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engineering study landfill 2025 operations report, the existing landfill is estimated to have four years of remaining life. Therefore, the landfill may be in operation till it reaches capacity at some point in 2029. While some erosion controls have been implemented, the city must conduct a

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comp comprehensive review of the landfill by a licensed engineering firm. The review should include an assessment of the capacity of the landfill storm water management infrastructure. Provide a written plan for repairs and/or upgrades to ensure protection of nearby

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wetlands. I respectfully urge you to keep the enforcement order open to and to continue your ongoing monitoring of the site. Thank you Alan and uh next on the agenda vote to approve the meeting minutes of 3226. Would someone like to make that motion?

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>> I'll make that motion. >> So I need to second that motion. >> I'll second. >> All in favor? >> I >> I will be abstaining. Yeah. Um, would someone like to make a motion to approve the meeting minutes of 392026? >> Make that motion. Someone want to second that motion? >> Second.

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>> All in favor? >> I move is approved. >> Yep. >> Uh, first on the agenda for under enforcement orders is the sludge landfill dated 413 2026. Did you guys all get a

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chance to look at those new reports that were provided? Any questions or comments? And I think the reports are lacking in information there, but it's per contract. So that's nothing we can do at this time. But I do believe that a a refresh of those reports needs to be

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completed. Change the format, more data, and uh inconsistencies with some of the notes on how it kind of lays out. So um I think at this point we got to continue. I would propose we keep that the enforcement order open. Would someone like to make that motion?

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>> I'll make that motion with a second. >> Second. >> Um, thank you. >> Okay, we're going to move a date on it first. >> Let's move it to August. Keep it going

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till August 3rd. Gets us through the rainy season on the spring. >> Yeah. Yeah. Someone like to make a motion to complete uh continue the enforcement order on a sludge landfill until August 3rd, 2026. >> I'll make that motion. >> Someone to second that motion. All in favor?

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>> I move is approved. 36 Nicole Terrace is continued to May 11th, 2026. 282 Brookside Drive again continued to May 11, 2026. Next on the agenda, enforcement orders

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of cease and desist for 86 Lynwood Street. Uh, somebody here to represent. >> Yep. Come on up and state your name for the record, too. >> Yeah. Charles Karen, Karen Environmental Consulting. Retained by Mr. Duffy to try to figure

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things out out there. >> Okay. Um, I have a quick outline and sketch plan of what we're proposing to do to uh rectify the situation from the past.

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>> Thank you. >> Um, We got more. >> Yeah, I guess I could do the introduction. Um, so, um, so I discovered the alterations through desktop review while I was

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mapping hydraologic features around the city of Gardner to refamiliarize myself with the different spots around our various wersheds. Um, when when I got to

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Mr. Daffy's property. Um, I noticed that a lot of land had been recently cleared within the last couple years. Um, we also have a we also have a new subscription to the software near map

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which also gives us a 10 at least a 10-year um time frame for viewing you know operations over over that time frame. Um and it seems as though clearing started

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around 2018 2019 and in addition to the land clearing there was also a little bit of regrading as well as potential fill and alteration to some of

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the resource areas that are on the parcel. Um while looking at USGS maps um part of that part of the wetlands resources are at least from the federal designation as a perennial feature

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>> I was going to discuss that >> yeah um and in addition to that a lot of the various setbacks and buffers were also found to have alterations in um

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including a including a wetlands crossing around the bank of the actual pond or the open water source itself. And um and also because of the new culvert, it's

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technically a change in the capability of the hydraologic flow on on site. >> So there's a new culvert put in >> uh without a permit. >> So I'm sorry. Yeah. So that that new >> there was a small pipe there minus

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handing collapsed or >> corroded away um >> potentially put in a new EBS plastic cover. >> Yes, if you want you bring it up.

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Yeah, like you said, I was doing a few years. I was working on it because I'm a beekeeper and I was expanding my uh aperary and I took advantage of the drought last year and I noticed I was losing my pond. It was drying up. The stream was dry and that it was like a

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six or eight inch clay co when they hand made the pond way back in the day that was all crushed and collapsed. So I went out, I did my research. I put the four, five, 6 in of crush stone underneath. I put a 20in pullet in there because I figured bigger is better. So, I wouldn't

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restrict any flow going through that little That's basically what I did there. I did You're right. I didn't have this in the quad map. I just >> Yeah. >> While we're on the We have the vegetated wetlands and then that man-made pond

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that's on this site. Um the USGS has the stream completely screwed up. It's one of the worst, more egregious mistakes I've seen on the quad maps. Um, initially I was thinking they were showing this as a second outlet out of

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Ben's pond coming into the large swamp that um goes down into a park. Um, then I started looking at that's what I wrote in my my afternoon. I started thinking

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I think they think it's going this way. Um, which the toe on this side of the road shows that it should be >> flowing that way, but it really flows down, >> but it's really flo But there. So, I just stopped on my way here to confirm that. And there's nothing

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up. There's no stream on either side of the road up here. So, this is just a short section of stream that develops somewhere right about the site and flows into the brook. So, this just looking at it, I know there's no way it's really perennial, but

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um they have it mapped perennial because I assume they think most of this swamp and all of this area is feeding into it and going that way, but it's going 180 degrees the other direction of a pretty small tributary area.

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>> We have to sort that out. Yep. Yeah. So, do we want to talk about some of the um just like kind of like the extent of alteration that you've seen so far? >> Yeah. Can we go back to the aerial photo? Yes. >> Yep. Do you want the mass mapper version? Do you want the near map version?

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>> The the masks. >> Y is since that's what I use. Uh so, basically this is Duffy's house up here. This is the area that's been cleared. Um, my understanding was it was

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basically kind of an old overgrown field. It shows up looking like trees. You can see some remnants of water. I believe it look like up in here that are still left that was um you know small but medium size saps

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that grown up and I um got overgrown with invasive species of a lot of bittersweet waiting it down and I suspect the 2008 stone flattened a lot of it combined with the bittersweet. So it was just to have

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a tangled overgrown field slash almost woods stuff. He said he slowly over the last seven or eight years was clearing that um trying to get it in a condition for his uh beekeeping.

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>> What's is that machine right there in the picture? >> Looks like an excavator sitting right there in the picture. >> What size excavator is that? >> Uh 30,000 lb. Okay. Um, so then

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there's vegetated wetlands here, the pond, there's an outlet from the pond and then into that big swamp eventually. So we have several areas of concern out there. Um,

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we got the clearing which from here over I I feel like is just restoring it back to conditions that probably historically been in. Um, and becoming a field

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um, but the areas that I was concerned about when we're recommending restoration is in through here. is a big rock. This that

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wetland that shouldn't be there that all needs to come out along the micro jetty. That's not That's right. >> No. Well, there's big rocks in here >> up above that. And then a bunch of rock

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is right along the edge of what was cleared, which um I believe is right where the edge of what it is. Um it wet beyond that right where all the the clearing stop and those rocks are there's

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three or four red oaks right in along along there and the train starts coming up. So I think all that rock is sitting on the button line. Uh so part of the restoration I was recommending was pulling all that out

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and some set back into the field. I was going to say 10 ft. >> Have you soil sampled any of that? Ced? >> Yeah. >> Out beyond that where the green line is on the wetland? >> I haven't done the deep that one of the things I put in there. We still need to

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see what you were looking for and get a feel for what level of detail we needed. But I do need any scenario I need to go back and do put the actual button flags out there so we have um everybody knows exactly where the line is. Um,

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but moving these rocks back, forming some type of wall or bar area so that in the future you can't approach back into there. Um, I was recommending plantings on both sides of that wall. Um, on the wetland side with

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um some u winter berry and high bush blueberry. And then on the one side, a row of high bush blueberry where I think I could pick the blueberry easily eventually. Um that's one area. What the

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that colar is back in here. It's sitting there partially exposed, not finished. To me, it looks like it was just replacing that collar that failed. So I was recommending just getting that back filter compacted right and

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stabilizing the slopes and the surface instead of everything that's been disturbed in that area. So, so, so the culver's going north. It's going north and south. >> The stream, >> the the culvert, >> the culver, right? Yeah. North, south orientation. >> So, is there anything crossing the

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culvert? >> The purpose of Yeah, that's right. Yeah. No, I know. >> This was clearly an excavated probably fine pond at one point and there's a burm all the way around it. >> Um, and this cover is going through that

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BM on that side. There was an original like a dirt trail or whatever going over it into the into the other woods and the other fences. Right in this area right in there is like a 20 by 20 foot

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area that I think Phil was putting. Um so that needs to be excavated out. Um, probably initially you use an excavator or back hole, but as you get down to the the ground surface, I think that's going to come out by hand the last couple

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inches to get it um back to the ground surface. This wetland, you should be able to tell this wetland is the ground surface there is probably 90% rock. So, we get back to that, it should be pretty easy to tell where the original ground

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level was. Um, and then we had recommended seating in the planting guide area. This little area right here is an area where he built a little

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>> I guess a rock there in the water, >> a little mini candy into the pond. Um, which unfortunately I think needs to come out. Um, I think it's just a matter of reaching in there and pulling all that fill out of there. >> Go ahead, D. I just had a two clarifying

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questions. So, the rock jetty there. What about the other island? >> I don't I don't know what it when I was up there. >> That wasn't >> This just I don't know if this was really long. >> No, that was that was when the bomb got really >> Excuse me.

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>> If you hire this gentleman to talk, you should be quiet. >> Okay. >> Okay. You're not helping your matters at all. So, let the gentleman you hired do the talking. Thank you. Um, when I was out there, there's no sign of anything there. So, I think it was just

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a real low water and that's the bottom of the pond >> because it doesn't show up in any other photo. >> I know. I >> And it's big. You didn't Did you I'm going to ask this. Did you pour any rocks in the pond? >> No. >> Other than the rock? >> That's it. >> How long have you owned that property?

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>> Since 2009. >> And you've paid taxes on that property for how long? >> Since 2009. And when you see your property and your footprint and your tax rates, you know that there's wetlands out there because you get a different rate for that land. >> Does it show up on your plot where your

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wetlands are? >> Um, I'd have to look on my You mean on my house de? >> Uh, not on your deed, but your that lot. Does it identify wetlands at all? >> No, I think that shows up on tax. >> I was just curious to see if it if it

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did and how long you live there. But >> go ahead. My my other clarifying question. So, there's a hu I mean, you talk about the rock. It looks like it's hard to tell from these photos, but it looks like the entire line of big rocks was added. Is that your understanding? >> This this line? >> Yeah.

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>> Yeah. That's where I was talking about. >> That's I was just trying to figure out what you meant. But, uh, >> I'd also like to add thank you for coming and for jumping on this first because people run over. >> No, I'm here to make this great. >> I appreciate that. Um, you know, once that comes out, I'm

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recommending planting basically a row of wetland shrubs all the way around the bank of that. There's a lot of the bank of this is almost all glossy box one. Um, so that should be controlled as much as possible and hope

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get the the native shrubs up and above it. Um, the other area I was concerned about is this the outfall and this is just kind of a low area that's like a spillway coming out of the pond and that got disturbed at some point and it's

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eroding a little bit. Um so I was recommending in that area putting um basically flat rip rock a rip wrap in there like 18 inch diameter flat rock in there to stabilize it and

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fill the gaps between those and crush them. Uh let's see. The other area I was nobody was concerned about is up here. The runoff coming off of Lynwood um is creating some little bit of not a

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lot but a little bit of erosion across the slope through here. There's just some little rolls of a few inches wide and inch deep that have formed there. uh sort of recommending in that just getting some lube on it, seating it real heavy, and then putting like two strips

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wide of the um one of the biodegradable erosion control blankets on that. >> I'm can't see the scale. I'm just looking >> I can like slide the beside the rot. I can see there's a there's a scale bar on the lower left. We can't

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>> lower left just on that scale. >> Uh that's uh >> Yeah. So or or what's the green what's the green outline right there? >> The green outline. This one right here. >> Oh, that's hot out. Okay. >> So yeah, that's the that's what they listed as. >> So we got to go 100 ft outside of that.

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That's what I was just going to say. Where do we I know we want to restore it. You're talking about right on along the edges, but technically needs to go 100 feet out, right? >> Well, let's talk about a little bit. So with let's let's say that it's an intermittent

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stream or let's just for benefit of the doubt that we only have 100 foot setback. The problem is we can't really discuss changing the status of that right now because we're still in a declared traffic kind of thing. On a technicality we can't do that. Um, as

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far as bordering vegetated wetland, um, so this represents the estimated 100T buffer for for the wetlands. Um, and with the somewhat,

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you know, traffic cone color pattern. So, we have the three sensitive areas that the commission typically oversees with that. So the the lighter yellow tannanish one that's the

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outer 40. Then you have the 30 no build and then the 30 foot no disturb. So 30 footn by a lot just is just no alteration period kind of thing. So that's the

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I that's that's probably at least minimum what the commission would probably look for getting restored or I mean I can't speak for the commission but I mean I feel like >> that would be the same. >> Yeah. Um

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>> and and and do and not disturb while you uh I'm tired. The uh yeah restore in the So there's that the orange in the field and then having not disturb and that it's a lot more than what you're describing I guess is what I was

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thinking. Um, you're talking about just the area and around the the pond or the but it actually needs to extend out with some repairs, >> especially given the erosion's coming up soon. >> Yeah, I'm sure there's an elevation change now with the road, right? The

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road looks like it sits a little higher at the end of the street there >> up here. >> Yeah, >> that's a a lot higher. It must be >> 30 ft. >> It's a steep rock. >> Yeah, it really does. >> At least 30, maybe more. Another question too is just because with the

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clearing there was also potentially a little bit of additional regrading that happened to it. You know with the change in slope we have to look at >> you know what you know how water's you know entering down towards those wetland resource areas and you know even though you know

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to Mr. Jeff's credit, he did, you know, he did wall off, you know, with the rocks and stuff, but when it comes to standardized erosion controls and stuff like that, you know, when the engineer and I were out there checking out, getting our initial site

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views, we were concerned with, you know, during the stages of initial clearing and the years following, you know, what type of sedimentation events could have happened between >> between 2018 and now. I didn't see any thing of any significance when I was out

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there. The only place I saw well this was eroding but I didn't see it reaching the wetland below the road. Um along here I didn't see any sedimentation. Uh the only place I saw a tiny bit was when that spillway had been just below

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that there was a tiny bit of sediment. Um, >> but even moving the rocks would be disturbing it. >> Yeah. >> Well, >> I guess we're I don't see a lot of rock there. >> That's the only one.

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>> That's I know. >> Yeah, I know. That's what I'm saying. There weren't any that I could see on there. >> That's the old one. >> Yeah, that's the old one. That's the >> date on this one. Justin, what's the date on this >> for the imagery >> on the image? Yeah.

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>> Uh, I'd say that this was probably at earliest it's pro or sorry, latest it's probably 2021 to 2023. If we went to either the state mapper or the or the near map, then we get the 2025 imagery

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as of April of last year. >> It looked to me like most of the rock is pretty new. >> What what what's the date on that map? >> Uh so this would be 2025 imagery. Um the

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closest one that we have um or at least the closest date that we have. So this 2016 2018 go all the way to 20 April 24th 2025 would be the last >> here you can do that this one shows a pretty distinct that distinct line of

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rocks that talking about coming back from there >> I also have a question although >> you can see the track right in the wetlands right there so >> can you go back to the 2026 or the 2016 >> yeah I can >> I was trying to do it on my phone

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>> do you want me to do a gradual time jump or >> slow. >> Okay. >> Okay. Um, so this is our 2016. Um, then

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2017 things are still somewhat the same. 2018 jumps to 2020, but between 2018 and 2020 is where you see the >> Can you go back to 2018? >> Yep. And it's plan north. Scroll plan north.

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Oh, I'm sorry, south. It looks like the footprint of the whole thing gets smaller. Now go to 2020. >> Footprint of what? >> Footprint of the pond or the footprint of >> the footprint of the pond looks like it changed. >> Yeah, it did. >> Yeah. Well, yeah, it could depend on

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water levels. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. This looks like duckweed or something up in that. Yeah. >> Is the driveway paved >> coming down into No. >> Yeah. Is it

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>> It's gravel. >> Like there is the white part of it. Is it paved or is it gravel? >> It's gravel. >> Yeah. That's like crystal. >> And where does that line? >> That's all new. >> That's all new. So that's in our >> well like again if if you count it as if

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you count as a perennial stream then part of it potentially in >> I mean that looks pretty perennial and that black line I'm seeing >> right that's >> this is my question how important is it that we need to decide whether it's perennial or not >> but I don't think it matters right now it's not

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>> well I I don't know this is to me it's a strange situation we can't when we have to prove that perennial street isn't a furnace stream because of the flow. We can't do it during a drought. Um, >> yeah,

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>> if if the the mapping is the launch though, I'm not sure if we don't have another algorithm just to say the quad map is wrong. >> Well, you can core it, right? You can core everywhere and tell what it is, right? >> All the time.

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>> Yeah, I'm trying to make a determination there. >> How deep is that pond? How big is it? Deep >> deep is it? >> Five or six feet deep. >> I mean, I think we got to treat this worst case scenario unless proven

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otherwise. And right now, we can't do that because of the drought. >> Did you stack those rocks more along that? Cuz it looks like it's they're kind of in a pretty good line there >> along the field. Yeah. >> Yes. What's the change in elevation between where the rocks are stacked and like

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sort of the where the field level? >> There is I didn't back fill anything by the field. That's all the original. >> Yeah. So, what's the elevation difference like between? >> No, from that kind of green strip of grass, right? >> As soon as you rock, it's coming uphill

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feeling. Oh, it's like this. How about how about also Steve? >> I'd like to see an elevation in at the end at the end of the street. >> But the elevation is there >> and down at the >> point because the house usually got

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>> heard. No, we heard it. Yeah. Elevation >> elevation at the end of the street and the elevation on the on the pond. Well, we have uh Chris Scott, he's a professional engineer lined up to put

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together a site plan if we need to do that, which >> I was hoping if we were restoration type things, we might not need to, but based on based on your questions, I think we need to

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>> put that together. The first thing I would say I want to know the elevation at the street level at the end of the street and the elevation at the point. >> Yeah, >> that's I think that's reasonable. >> Yeah. And then flag where you think the boundaries are your best estimate.

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You've worked with us before, right? You've come before us several times. Know more than fair are you flagging and then maybe we conduct a site visit. >> Yeah. >> Oh, definitely a site visit >> after it's flag the whole group. >> Yeah. And and take it from there. >> Okay. It's obvious the property owner is doing the right thing.

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>> So I won't even try to modify the restoration plan or anything till we do that site block problem. >> I think we hold off, right? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> You guys want to continue that? >> Yeah. We have so you know I understand I

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imagine do we have should we there's assist right? >> Yeah. >> Um do we want to do something with that steep erosion that steep the steep slope to prevent erosion? I think you put some >> other than this section, that section below the room, it really isn't anything

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bad going on. >> This section, sorry, what? >> That where there's a little bit erosion below. >> No, I'm talking about right above right just to the west of the rock line. Looks like bare earth to me. >> It's mostly It's like 95% vegetated now. >> Is it?

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>> Okay. >> Yeah. I think we continue it. Keep it open. Tell us when it's flagged. And when you have the top hole done, we as soon as you do, Justin will get a hold of the commission. We'll do a site visit. Make sure everybody's in agreement. >> Make sure make sure the 30 and the 60 are on there.

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>> Yeah. >> Thanks. >> All right. Do 30, 60, and 100 to be safe. Right. >> And then flag it. Get a hold of Justin. He'll get a hold of us and we'll conduct a site visit as a group and take it from there. Okay. >> Do you have any other questions? >> No.

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>> Anybody in the commission? >> Some of them. I'll make a motion that we take in this. You're going to need more in a month, right? >> I would think by the time we do the survey and get a plan put together and then get you out there before we have another meeting in here. I think we need more.

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>> What's our next meeting? Oh, we could How was it? >> So, we only have one meeting in May. That's May 11th. Um, but after that, you'd go with the June meetings. >> June 9th. Is that enough time? >> Yep. shoot for that.

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>> A month a month. >> So I'd like to make a motion to continue the >> I'll make that motion that we continue this hearing until June 9th. >> June 9th. >> Somebody to second that motion. >> Second it. >> All in favor? >> I. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Thank you.

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>> Uh next on the enforcement order is a cease and desist for nine Crawford Street. Somebody here to represent. Yes. State your name for the record. Come on up. My name is Mark Ro. >> Mark, what do you do for uh you're the

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owner of the property? >> No, I'm the director of construction and facilities maintenance. >> Okay. >> So, they have 50 locations. My condolences to you. >> I often wonder why I'm still here. >> So, what can you kind of give us a lay

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of the land and where the it occurred? And >> Yep. So highlighted in the red here is about an estimated um area for where um Burger King recently conducted a little bit of uh tree work um where um as shown

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report um an image from Google Streets 2025 versus the field photos that were taken between late March and early April. There's definitely there's definitely a big difference in what's there now versus what there was. Um,

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>> you own that other property, too? >> What's that? >> Do you guys own that other property? North. >> Uh, so so the whole >> No, they don't. >> No, no, no. >> Okay. >> Just up to >> Yeah, just up into >> this purple line up here. Yeah. So that's that's >> But including the red or the red line?

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>> Yeah. There's no difference in A&R. >> Do you own the >> for that? Um, >> are they under the brook? >> Uh, that >> to the middle of the brook. >> I've been trying to find out >> what is what. So, we just took this property over a year and a half ago or

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so. >> Yeah. >> I've been trying to get correct verbiage from the old owner. Uh, definitions, property lines, whatever. The the deed is very vague. the it's so

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just a quick obviously there's a 100% difference here not denying any of that the trees were cut what happened was when we took this property over I guess there was an ongoing issue with there was a lot of

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dead fall in there and I'm talking 12 14 inch on the stump that was just completely debarked there was shearing off and the drive-through lane is right there as well so there was some big branches is coming down. All of that. I called the

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local tree company first. Before I did that, I called the town and I spoke with somebody at the DPW >> because the manager of this facility, which I think you spoke to or part of your one of you folks spoke to, >> Sean Shane.

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>> Sean Shane Shane, >> he told me that he had spoken to the town on numerous occasions about the trees and this and that. And I said, "Is this your property or is this town property?" He said, "This is the town property." I

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said, "Okay." Again, ignorant to what really was taking place out here. So, I called the town and I spoke to the head of the DPW. >> Who was the Dane Dane? >> Her who I spoke to. >> Oh, the city engineer.

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>> It was DPW. It wasn't an engineer. >> Okay. So I explained to him the problem that was going on and he said to me, "That's not our problem. That's your property. You deal with it." So that was last fall. So I had a tree company call

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just clean everything that had fallen, smashed on the chain link fence. You can see the fence is all cuz stuff has been dropping out there. So we cleaned it up. I think it was mid winter, late winter. Obviously, we had a lot of winds, all of that stuff

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was snapping, cracking, everything. I called the tree company out to cut all the dead fall. I go back out there. Don't know if he was bored. Don't know if he needed firewood. Don't know if he just thought it was easier.

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He cleared. It is what it is at this point. I'm not denying what took place, but he cut some live trees. No doubt. a ton of debt fall away, but he also took the live stuff out. So, that's where we're at now. >> Can you give a copy of the quote and

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what and payment? >> Do I can you give me a copy of the quote? >> Yeah. >> Thank you. >> It's easier for us to determine if he knew what he was cutting or not by the quote. >> You know what? It's not. So, here's even more of the minutia.

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I met the regional manager out here. We did a walk through And I told him to cut the deadfall out of here and over the drive-thru lane. Period. He miscommunicated to the tree company cuz I already had a massive argument

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with them. He told them to start at the corner of the dumpster, which is on the other side of this inlet. He came down around and did the once in the drive-through lane. So that's where all >> So your quote, what does it state?

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the quote stated from the dumpster through the drive-through lane. But again, when you know, if you're out there and you're meeting with somebody and he's saying to you this, this, this. So, what happened was I went out there

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to check on it, all of this dead fall was still here. We had another branch come down, just about smash the hood of a car. I said, "You better get out here and cut this dead fall out of here." This had already been done. >> Wow. That was already water over the dam. There's nothing I could do about that.

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>> He didn't even do what you asked him to do the first time. >> Correct. But I'm not pushing the blame on him because there was too many other fingers in that pie that were explaining and not following the correct direction. So, it's really I I can't say to the

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tree guy, you know, you did all this maliciously. He he just did what he was told to do. Unfortunately, he had the wrong information. >> Yeah. I do the do the tree companies normally leave it up do they don't they know the wetland's laws excuse me do the

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the tree people normally know the wetland's laws they should >> typically should oper You don't normally clue with the tree water. >> The tree company was >> local. >> As far as I know, he was local. Timber pros

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from way up. >> You know, oddly enough, it doesn't say on. There's no address on there. remove four trees. >> Right. Okay. So, >> oh, there you go. >> There you go. >> Yeah, we want to see it. >> If you go out there and look at the

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stumps, I'm sure you can count 20. >> Well, there's more. >> I mean, there's one that was down and I understand there was one that you can see. I don't know if he put his foot in the water and one on the rock to take it off. >> Have to be in the water to cut some of those down. >> Yeah. Yeah. It was It's I mean, and it's

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cut on an angle. >> Yeah. >> So, I mean, at the end of the day, I own this mess. So, whatever it is you need me to do to replant, to sort of mitigate. I know none of the obviously none of the soil was touched. None of

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the vegetation was touched. And I've been around this long enough to know by August there's going to be 6 ft of shooting out of those stumps and you're not going to see the water again and it's just going to start all over again. But

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and I don't know if going in there planting new trees is going to be more detrimental opening that earth all up and you know it's just roots to roots to rock. So, >> you know, you know what kind of secret

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species were cut? >> From what I saw before, I don't know if you he was he was on site before the cutting. >> What I saw out there appeared to me to be red oak. >> The ones that were dead >> and then I don't know if it was I think

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a lot of the smaller stuff it could have been alers that was just poking out of everywhere in the water. I mean, again, I'm not a I didn't really examine it. I just saw all the dead fall and they were probably 40 45 footers.

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So, I think they were red oaks and I don't know if too much water was in there and they eventually died off. I don't know when that culpit went in. I don't know any of that. >> What do you know? Can you tell? >> Uh, white ash for sure. It was a tree that was taken out of there. I can tell by the bark and

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>> probably the dead falls were white ash. One one of the one of the really dead stumps was also almost Americana or American elm too. Um >> yeah, it did look like there was some in there. >> Yeah, around where like the armoring is on the culver itself there maybe a

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couple white pines and then I think a couple in addition to the ash there maybe a couple mixed red maple Norway maple as well. It is is a mixed bag of trees. >> So those are all spotting trees. And how about the ash? Is white ash going to

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sprout now or is this going to >> even? >> Maybe it might. >> Isn't white ash also be susceptive? >> It would have probably not lasted. >> Those sprouts wouldn't last. They would not. Right. Yeah. But the other ones they'll grow for a year or two. Um and

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as far as the >> from my interpretation after discussing things with D just as a refresher to the commission um so the jurisdictional bounds of what we're kind of looking at

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here is um from when the cover daylights to when it goes back in. So the trees that are on top of the armament and closer to the more beat up fence on the on the back

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section towards the parking lot. That stuff is technically not in jurisdiction. You kind of have to think of it as a kind of a from the center point of the stream. It's kind of a 200t. It's kind of like here and then 200 ft

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out those ways. So it's just the stuff that's along the channel side that we would probably have to >> what what brook is that? >> So that's the that's one of the tributary branches that comes out of

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>> it's one of the tributary branches that >> comes out of crystal. >> So >> the problem is we lost all that shade, >> right? >> That water's going to get pretty hot. >> It's it's the brook that comes around the uh little >> Yeah. Comes right around

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But there's a little little brook that comes off of what you call >> the one that comes out of Crystal Lake daylights over here, daylights over here, and then comes in somewhere over here. It actually doesn't come into the spot at all.

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>> But um but yeah, the other tributary system does is the one that flows through alongside Burger King. >> Where does So the one that comes out in Burger King? >> Yep. >> Where does it start? up at Lawrence Street

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>> in my basement. >> How far away? I'm not familiar with the area. So, >> it's about a mile. >> So, that's culvertised for a mile under that. >> Yeah. Well, you know where Price Chopper is? >> No, you don't know. >> Comes down through. Yeah. >> Pusher.

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So, it so upstream. So if we're going upstream, >> it's culverted up to about here and then you have open channel from here >> going up here and then it culvertisizes back >> across route two and then eventually

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>> dross. So it goes back up and under route two again. >> So it comes under it, comes back, then goes under it again like a horseshoe. >> Well, it goes under where I'm at. >> Go down. >> Yep. >> Yeah. Scroll through so you can see price. >> Very good. Yeah. All right. We'll keep

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go down even more. >> Yeah. >> No, not across. Down. >> Down the other way. >> Well, that's why I said north anyway. So, >> good. Right there. Jesus. Stop. >> That's price chopper.

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>> Those big white buildings there. That's the big one is Price Ja that's built on top of that stream. >> Oh, and where am I? >> You're way down here. right there. >> Oh, I got you. Okay. >> Okay.

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>> See the blue line by the baseball field? >> So, just what were you saying about the 200 ft then? So, 200 foot. So, again, um >> where the culvert approximately daylights, which is about right here. >> And then where it re-enters probably

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about here. >> Yeah. >> So, in between those two se two sections, you got to think kind of like a >> these are your limits. And then the >> limits limits to what our jurisdiction >> jurisdiction because when it because when it goes >> right so I mean it's the whole thing the

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whole the whole section >> almost the whole section but the trees that are on top of the culbert and backwards are technically not in our jurisdiction. >> So the ones that were adjacent to the parking lot >> right next to the drive

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>> right right next to the dumpster and paral >> because those were on top of >> whenever that was built. >> Yeah. Yeah. So wherever >> but once the armament ends. So once once the once the collar ends >> so you we'll talk about both sides of the thing.

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>> Yeah that's why I wanted a good part of that right it's hard it's hard to show it on the GIS but give me one second if you will. >> That's what I wanted. I was I was thinking there was something else. Just give me two seconds. And this one's not this one this one's

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not going to be perfect either because they count the stream kind of like they do in kind of like they do in this map. So just bear with me for a second while I But technically technically the estimated stream buffer

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and like I said you have to only pay attention to about here to here disregard everything that's on this side but 200 feet out in each direction is technically in our jurisdiction. So, >> how how how how far is the the road that

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goes around for the >> drivethru? >> For the drive-thru to the to the brook, how far is it? Roughly >> 10 ft. >> Probably 10 15. >> Is that close? >> It doesn't look like it drops right off. >> Yeah. All this was built before the act,

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before the bylaws, before everything. So this was >> was this put in after the Burger King or was the Burger King put in after the C? >> The Burger King was probably there after the stream. >> Oh, so they built that on top of that. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Why don't we do this? I think we need to get a somebody out there that's wetland

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specialist to come up with a plan just like we did with the previous owner that was before us. >> Yeah. >> We're all going to sit here and talk and guess he's going to be left hung. I think we need to talk to timber pros and ask them what made them think they could do that and judging by their website they're at

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lump start they should come before us. >> Well, I'm sure they're just going to tell you they were told to do >> Yeah, but they are they wait. >> You know those people and I would assume they they're aware of the wetlands laws in this state. >> You know, they can't say, "Well, we

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didn't know that." That's a >> Oh, I hear what you're saying. That's a whole separate sort. They're looking for the job. >> Yeah. >> And and you didn't Nobody nobody said anything, so they just got the whole damn thing >> or they would at least question it, >> right? >> Yeah. >> You'd like to think they would at least

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question it. >> Yeah. So, I think we >> can we really do this. >> I want to have them come up and talk to us about it because they need to know for the next time that they come into the city. >> Yeah. >> But also get a wetland specialist come up with a plan. We got to get that

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restored somehow that doesn't impact him in the future. Right. >> And also get some shade back in there if we can. >> Oh, make a lawn. >> I think you'll have to get you >> I mean it's going to sprout right back

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out. Well, um yeah. Yeah. >> Obviously, the dead, >> right? I mean, my biggest issue at the time was not, to be perfectly frank with you, was not what tree to cut, what should be cut. It was one of those

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coming down on the customer and me getting sued for half a million dollars and they should have come before us with notice of intent. We could have discussed that. Well, and and and again, you know, Mark did try to reach out to the city and and you know, I I do, you

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know, I do apologize, you know, that unfortunately the correspondence that you got wasn't really the correct correspondence. Um, but you know, if it did make it if it did make it to our to our desk, you know, because, you know, some of those trees were considered hazardous, we could have

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>> potentially we we we would have been able to help find, you know, an easier pathway versus working backwards and stuff like that kind of thing. So, but you know, >> why don't why don't we we could talk about this all night. Why don't we continue it to June 9th and give some time to get us somebody in there to help out

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>> is June 9th. >> Sure. That way you can find somebody to help you figure it out. It's not that complicated. They'll come out. They'll decide where the wetlands boundaries are. They'll probably look up to everything that Justin's already provided you and come up with a planting

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idea and and proposal and that's it. >> Do do you want the operator to be here? >> I'd like the operator to come out because I'd like them understand why they did it, but also so they understand in the future. >> Nothing to do with you on that. >> Yeah. >> So I mean it's pretty pretty clear. >> Let me give you a question. yesterday.

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The reason all those brooks were covered for was a fire reason. Ghana had, you know, regular water system, but all through there was all kinds of huge mills. So they needed they needed not high pressure but high

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volume. So they built these red hydrants over those culpits and they they could use them in case of a fire. They're all gone now. But I mean by Willow Street, it used to be an orange, you know, yellow one. And right beside it was a red one. That red one drew off all the

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things. And up by where Price Chopper is, it was same up through there. >> I don't have one. >> All right. So, someone like to make a motion to continue to June 9th. >> I'll make the motion. >> Thank you, Nick. Somebody second that. >> I'll second. >> All in favor?

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>> I If you have any questions, get a hold of Justin. But >> get it. Yeah, let us call. >> I'll reach out to you one because I need to determine exactly what it is you're looking for, >> right? >> So I can >> find somebody local, >> right? And I honestly don't think it'll

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be a very extensive restoration plan. It'll probably most likely >> come soon. It'll be >> Well, that was it, right? I >> I coming out of this winter, believe it or not, with $8 million worth of

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lawsuits. I agree. >> They're assuming me. They fell on the sidewalk and the cameras are on the sidewalk. The only thing you can see on the sidewalk is green salt. >> They're suing Morgan and Morgan is suing us.

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>> Slip and fall on the salt that happened. But >> not to mention a car driving through this one. >> Yeah, I'm still I have to leave the adjuster out there. It was You know what? It was an older gentleman. He went to back. He came in the drivethru the wrong direction.

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>> And then his foot got caught up on the pedal and when he cut the wheel, it was a front-wheel drive. Kai, caught the curb, I guess, sent him 90° back through the building and then he jumped in the dining room. Thankfully, nobody was sitting in the dining room yet. But, uh,

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yeah, that's another ongoing mess that we But >> all right, I will, uh, I'll reach out and >> thank you for coming. I'm going to get this squid away. >> Thank you so much. Next, our first hearing is request for terminations of applicability for 31 Traverse Street.

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The Gardener Conservation Commission will hold joint public hearing under MGL chapter 131 section 40 and the Wellness Protection Action Steve Gardener Protection Ordinance on a request for terminational applicability filed by Robert RD for proposed installation of

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the new carport would take place at 31 Street Gardener Mass. Map R17-18-7. The work will be set to occur within the buffer for the buffer zone of a bordering vegetated wetland as well as riverfront area. Somebody here to

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represent Bob right here. How you doing? Okay. I had sent Justin, but I got the same stuff I said if you want me to pass that around. Hopefully there

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I mean this this started previously where I wanted to put Let's see where we're at. Trevor. So, that's the house. That's the garage. Onecar garage. I wanted to put a carport

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on the right hand side. The brook was down here. Um, you guys questioned where the boundaries were and all that. So this is a pretty the the top sheet is a pretty accurate or is an accurate representation of the boundaries. Um you

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were concerned that was too close to the brook with that and so then we discussed well rather than put on the right side would it be okay to put on the left side. Um, and

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as far as the 30 ft from the corner of the lot, the brook's like another 10 ft away to the right of it. So, we're putting the carpet. All it is is an awning with three posts. So, it's nothing complicated. Um, that would get

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us almost 50 ft away from the brook. We adjusted and showed me the flood plane before and it kind of goes here and then goes off to that side. But there was no mention of flood plane in between the house and the garage. So what I'm

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requesting is don't put it here, put it over there. And like I said, it's nothing complicated. It's an auding with you can see on the the last page there's going to be three posts holding up the roof wide open. So the only thing we're going to be doing would be we'd be

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digging three holes to put the post in to support the roof. That's about it. >> So So how far is that? So how far is where the posts are going to be drilled from the um uh that would be another it's going to be like 9 ft wide. So 58 59 ft away from

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the brook. And then, you know, all this that's marsh land, you know, that's all marsh land back there. That's this is my daughter's house. That's that's the back that's all backyard there. And this this is all the same the the house, the garage, everything's all the same

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elevation. And then it probably drops down a good 20 30 ft to the brook on the right hand side. >> And so what was the the flight plan you're talking about? The 100 gear fly. >> I can I can like a flood like an annual flood plan.

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>> All I know is it shows like a blue blue line to the right. That's my technical knowledge of it. >> Yeah. Yeah. So there should be some some periods associated with it. You know annual flood. There's a 100 year flood right which comes everyund years

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theoretically. We've had we've had like 300 year flood. >> Yeah, >> I think they need to change that at some point. >> I think I think they are. Yeah, >> I keep hearing the >> Yeah. >> Oh, wait. The flood maps. >> Yeah, >> we just got our new ones.

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>> Yeah, there we go. There's the viewer. Sorry it's taking so long. >> We'll talk about how long it takes after the meeting. All those apps keep downloading. >> He He didn't want to raise, but that's

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something in your computer, buddy. >> So, flood plan that you have here. And it's a little Oh, sorry. >> But it's just >> Yeah. So, you've got that much.

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>> So, the kind of weird blue raspberry candy cane. Yeah. flood plan that you have. I'm sorry. That was a great It's hard to make the scripture sometimes, but yeah. So, that typically stands for the regulatory flood plan.

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>> Yeah. >> Then you've got your zone, I think, your zone AE right over here. And then you've got your um your zone X, which I believe is the 500, 100, and then the

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regulatory. So, yep. And that's what we're talking about. Yeah. Obviously see it there on the right hand side which are pretty much clear. >> So have you seen the water that high that close to the garage? >> No. >> How many years have you been there? >> She's only been there um a little bit

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over a year. >> Okay. >> But but you I mean where the where the house where all the property is, it drops down 30 40T. >> Yeah. I drove by this weekend. >> Yeah. you know, so it's a it's the property is sitting high above where the

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water water level is. Let's move that way. >> So, Justin, does that the eastern part of that the candy fing candy stripe stuff does that seem realistic to you? That map >> um >> the way that's drawn. >> Hard to tell. >> Hard hard to tell. Yeah.

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>> Well, yeah. I'm bas Yeah. And I mean I out of a lot of the sections that I've seen out of the new version of the imagery I think this is bit more accurate than some of the sections I've seen depending on where you are in town. And uh there are

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sections of flood plane that aren't connected to the resource area itself thing which I sometimes think is a little bit troubling because you know the flood waters are going to eventually stem from the body of water into the area that is going to be presumed as the

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flood plane. But sometimes again that's why you take geospatial analysis with sometimes with a little bit of a grain of salt. So yeah. Good. >> I was just say it's just so much better on the left hand side. >> Eliminate your hassle and

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>> proximity. You're good. >> Are you going to pave it? >> We were just going to So, where the um it would just come out of here like 9 ft there. There's some some gr that that's paved right there. That's as I was just

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either going to put down the regrind asphalt or or graded paste, which if you guys didn't care either way. So, uh, it would just >> it would just kind of curve over. It wouldn't be as wide as the cardboard. It

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would be like a gentle curve and then just go under the cardboard and that that's it. So, >> what was your plan to do on the runoff of this new pitched area? >> That I think it's a shallow, you know,

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cuz it's not a very tall garage. Um, I mean I I it's no, let's put it this way. The the shallow pitch of the existing garage is going that way and there's no gutters, there's no nothing.

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It just kind of rolls off and that's about it. So I think the same thing is just going to happen on on the left hand side, too. I mean, unless you guys tell me you want to do something else. Yeah. I mean, it's not, you know, it's it's a tiny little structure. It's only,

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I think, what was it going to be like? >> I think it's going to drain. It'll drain back into the street. Street. >> Yeah. I live next door anyways. I used to live at least. >> Okay. Anybody have any questions? I'm just curious if they how they going to do the uh the columns. It's just

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going to drill. >> Yeah. It's just going to going to come in. You know, it's those pre pre-cast ones and the whole thing is one piece. Yeah. Yeah. Just dig it big enough three three holes big enough to drop them in. That's a that's the only disturbance of

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the of the ground. So, well, aside from they would do we're going to put in the the reg grind asphalt. They they take a little bit of surface and and that right now, like I said, to to the left of the driveway, somebody just kind of threw down some gravel, if you want to call it

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that, that would disappear and then just get get replaced with the the as the gra or the asphalt. >> All right. Would someone like to make a motion to close the hearing? I'll make that motion with a second. >> Second. >> All in favor?

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>> I Thank you. >> All right. going to do. So, it says it's okay to do it, right? We're going to talk about that right now. >> Okay. All right. So, so I'll just hear from Justin or something. >> Okay. >> You can stay. >> You can Yeah, you're welcome to stay. >> Okay.

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>> That's just part of the process. >> Yeah. I'm sorry. >> You made the ocean. I live on the other side of the brook. >> Yeah. Yeah. And it, you know, I mean, a couple I can remember a couple of springs that were really was really a roaring down through there and that

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swamp area was all pawn where it was 100 years ago, right? And then, you know, after it was complet was gone, but the house was not floating and and was a little garage was that wasn't touched. >> So, you know, little Noah's arc, huh? >> Yeah. Exactly. Right. Exactly. I think

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given the circumstances already been disturbed over the years, the elevation outside the zones. >> I'm all right with it. >> Minimal disturbance. >> Me, too. >> There's a waterfall across the street. >> Right. >> There's a waterfall across the street.

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Waterfall across the street. >> Yeah. >> There's also >> that was a dam for that pond up above. Yeah. >> Where where the lumb that was on a pond at one time

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>> and the beaver tried to make it how many times they trapped beaver out of >> Yeah. There is a there's a blockage a little further in. I don't know whether it's beaver or whether it's just where trees fell down. So it's kind of >> it's kind of has a created a little

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secondary. Not that it has to do with anything, but there's two. >> Yeah, we're going over the negative determination, but the verbage >> on here. >> I know you're looking at

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me. >> Okay. So, as far as stream buffer is concerned, >> still in there and And and there too it is in when it comes to the buffer zone of the boring vegetative wetland the scope of work is

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on the outer port. So that's the least restrictive setback of the boring vegetated wetland. But just also just keep in mind you know again we are still dealing with riverfront setbacks and everything. So just want to make sure that

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>> so so we're basically we have to decide whether it's going to impact the the resource area. >> Yeah. Whether the scope of where >> we're outside of our no disturb no build >> outside of no disturb no build just have to decide. >> Well it's in the buffer. It's in the buffer. >> It's buffer. >> So well the question is will it impact

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the the resource area? >> Will it impact the resource area which I mean I would say no but that's kind of what we just saying. >> Yeah. So I'm looking at number three. The work described in the request is within the buffer zone as defined in the regulations will not alter an area

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subject to jurisdiction under the act. >> Yeah. >> Therefore, said work does not require filing those intents subject to the following conditions. >> Yeah. >> Sounds good to me. >> But yeah, but again the riverfront again is a 200 foot extension of the resource area. So technically it would be in the

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resource area. But does it alter the resource area itself? >> No. No, it doesn't. Right. Okay. So if it's 100 years time it might whatever. >> So if we go with three you can put subject to the following conditions. So we can put conditions on there.

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>> Yeah. >> What type the conditions could be what was the coverings of as fresh asphalt? What else? >> Graded base. >> Yeah. We want graded base was his was his alternative to the asphalt. >> We want graded base. >> You want graded base.

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>> That's what I'm thinking. And then what about erosion controls during those holes being open? I'm sure >> they're open and they close. >> Well, I know that, but I've also seen people start them and hit a rock and then never come back.

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>> Well, that's true, too. >> Roer controls. >> Yeah. Um before holes open is is a construction company doing this? >> Yeah. So, they'll know I'm sorry. >> So they will they should know all these.

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Yeah. What what duck specifies? >> Um and call me prior to start um and upon the conclusion of work would probably be >> um the other two. So just when you guys are about to >> break ground on it, just let me come just make sure that everything's

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>> okay. >> In compiance. Yeah. And then once it's finished, >> have me come out just to make sure that, you know, >> once once the entire structure is finished or once just the once once the entire awning and everything is

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installed. Um, so that way I can, you know, just again, you're not going to be required to produce an asbuilt plan or anything like that because it's a minor permit. Um, but yeah, just to make >> again, just so I can make sure that, okay, you went and you built a carport and you didn't build a Taj Mahal or

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something. No, >> someone like to make a motion to uh go with a negative termination number three with the following conditions. Um erosion controls. Yeah. Grand base erosion controls that are out before construction starts and can be removed

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uh upon site visit from the agent. The agent should be notified um at the start of the project and upon completion. Someone like to make that motion. >> I'll make that motion. Someone like to second that motion. >> I'll second it. >> All in favor? I'm done tonight.

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>> We approve the minutes. >> Two sets. >> You guys aren't done yet? >> You want me to sign this one or? >> No, because I still Well, cuz I'm going to attach that to This is just for you guys to look at when you guys,

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>> you know, again, constant refreshers. >> Um That's good though. I like that. >> But um but yeah. Um so I'll be working on the draft. Well, I'll be working on finishing up

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the draft of the actual permit. >> Um and I'll have it ready for you either by tomorrow or Wednesday. I'll let you know when I have it ready for you. Um also um keep in mind that uh when

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the per when this permit is issued um there's also a 10day lapse. That's what's referred to as an appeal period. So if there was an agree party to a decision made via the commission

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um that's a chance for someone to say hey wait I don't agree with this and you know figure it out. But I think just a you know. >> Okay. >> So it's it's not once you give me the piece of paper it's going to happen.

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>> Do as it goes summer project. >> Yep. Sorry. >> Moving on to old business 170 Milville Mil Street. >> Change. >> Uh okay. >> I did I did reach out to the office of dam safety um upon commission's request.

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Um and I did make direct contact with one representative from the office of dam safety. Um at the time um the they could not comment on the specific

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step in correspondence that the department was taking in regards to the project. But they will be reaching out within the next few weeks once once it's >> made it by once it's made by the heads

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of staff and once they've >> acted upon you know the steps that they're taking on the project itself. >> So >> all right. So we're going to let's make a motion to continue this. It's actually June 8th. I think we might have said June 9th meeting but it's the June 8th

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meeting. So would someone >> Yeah. continue it. Someone like to make a motion to continue 170 Mil Street to June 8th. >> I'll make that motion. >> Someone to second that motion. >> Second. >> All in favor? >> I just approve. >> Who did

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me? >> Agents report. >> Oh god. >> Yeah. >> You guys have to listen to me every day. I don't think nothing's >> chang um

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so uh we made it through the enforcements or at least the any of the enforcements for this evening. Um a note on enforcement. So um I have been working on um working with other departments to

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update our procedures for encountering violations. Um I will be working with the board of health to finalize the drafts of what will be the revised ticketing system. Um, so if if the situation ever called for that tool

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on the belt to be utilized, we will eventually be prepared to use it when when appropriate. Um, the other thing that um that I talked to Greg with earlier last week was that um given the

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new software and you know given you know what I've seen going around town, there are definitely numerous violations that have been popping up over um the course of the last month that I found. Again, it's

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going to take time to plenty of time address a lot of them. Uh >> but um in an effort to also kind of kind of get back into the community, um

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we are going to start trying to figure out different events to incorporate with public outreach. Um on May 7th I am going to be putting together a presentation for the correlation of um wetlands to

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and their benefits to human health which I will be presenting at um the board of health's um symposium that's going to be in prairie auditorium that night from 4:30 to 7. Um >> when is that the date?

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>> May 7th. The th Thursday. Yeah. So yeah, I'm going to keep trying to, you know, periodically make some new presentations just so we can, you know, reach out to the community more often so that way, you know,

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we have more understanding with what, you know, with the town as to like, you know, in what situations the commission acts and, you know, what situations we want to avoid kind of thing. Um, >> we just got to we we've been talking about public outreach and it seems that

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people some know, some don't know >> and I don't know if we're reaching out to the community as best we could. They're obviously not pulling back information off our website. So, we're trying to come up with other ideas. It might be all social blitz between, you know, outreach and newspaper articles.

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It could be Instagram. It could be any of those. >> I mean, I would suggest take the GIS, get all the buffer zones and identify them and mail them something. >> Yeah. Yeah. Um >> I mean it doesn't have to be certified but you know if you do that every you know five years that's going to be the most effective right

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>> and the most efficient. Yeah, because you >> I mean it's going to take less time for you to do that than it would to do a presentation. >> Yeah. >> At a board of health, you have a lot more outreach isn't going to be that great, but >> that going to the board of health meeting. >> I don't know what that's going to really

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>> No, but if you do mailing to everybody who's in a who's in a resource area, >> but both actions will inevitably still expand the audience. Oh, yeah. >> Will also expand awareness. So, we I mean, yeah, I I think we can kind of take steps to work on both. and um

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and in including on the um the alternative um media pages and stuff like that I am investigating you know you know potential of getting some of that together too and as for which portions of the commission's

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updates will be put on that versus what will be put on the website and everything else. Um so we'll just weigh out all the variables but then we'll we'll act on it. Um, we spent we spent an hour today dealing with something that people should have known.

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>> Yeah. >> I just don't think the average person in town knows. I really don't know >> and they need to be told. >> I The average person in town can't get to city hall. It's closed by the time they get home. >> There's that. >> So, I think that, you know, the people

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back in the day used to work in the cities in town. They never they never left town. >> But now the city hall's closed where the taxpayers can get in. Yeah. And I think that's a problem. And I also don't think people go to the website. >> No. >> Can I share something that I found in going through the files? So, I've been

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volunteering um to help um organize the files of the department so that eventually it can become digitized. >> Over 78 hours. >> Yeah. >> Well, yeah. Total. >> Last week.

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>> Hold this week. Last week. >> You're being silly. Um, so, um, since I've only been on the commission a little bit, um, but I think Greg and Duncan and, um, Dave were on

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when this happened, when the Wilderbrook, um, development came about, these two pages were included in the order of conditions. Nice >> on every property. That's >> I remember

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>> and and it was on it was on the order of on the order of conditions. Um, so as you know the Wild Brook Wilderbrook property is huge, many houses and so a number of them

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backed into um back into Wilderbrook. And I think I mean you have to go back and really look because there's lot numbers and then they they don't always coordinate with current addresses. So it's kind of hard. You'd have to look at the look at the map original map of the

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development and look. But it seems as though all the properties that back onto Wilderbrook, both on Brookside Drive and on Fernwood, whatever, um, part of Leo, these two pages were on the back of the order of conditions.

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I only found maybe 10 of these signed ones returned. >> And I mean, if if this was a I mean, this is cool. And what this is for

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people at home is a um an explanation of the special conditions of that property that says what you can and cannot do and that um if you want to do any kind of work, you have to come before the conservation commission. Uh that there's going to be signage that says protected

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wetlands and that the conservation commission approval was required for work beyond this point. And then the second page is the homeowners acknowledgements where they sign it and date it. They put their address and they say they're gonna going to go with this. Now, this was on the original order of conditions when the buildings were

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built. Doesn't ex expand once they're sold, >> right? It's well, what the I wrote this. I remember writing this. Um, and this was supposed to be attached to their deed. So, when they went and bought the property, it was attached to the D and

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it was supposed to continue. So, what I can tell you is people just blow it off. these attorneys are coming in and they're not they're not following through. They're not doing their full deed search, but it it's attached and that's we probably don't get them back because they're probably attached to

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this sign and signed. That's why they're not on our records. >> But but piggy backing on what you said, Brian, you know, if every property I mean that's a monster project, but if every property in the city that had wetland near it had this stuff attached

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to it, then that would bish the open. Yeah, >> but on the same token is all those people out there, they don't know. They know there's a Brooklyn there. They don't know. They have no idea about wetlands. >> They have no idea. So that's why >> we we should stop, you know, tagging

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these wings. But then the signs we've got, >> that's the thing. Now, Greg said there were tags out there that you drive around there now, you don't see any. >> 50 ft. I don't care what >> But we we've never done Alice's property. How many acres that had 160? Yeah.

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>> Yeah. >> No, >> it's a big undertaking to put those up. >> Although I know that I feel like we've never done it. No, we got to get first. First, you got to get a portable GPS. What they say survey is use. Maybe we can borrow one. >> Second E3.

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>> I mean, let's let's do the quickest, easiest thing, and that's just going to be taking the addresses and bring wherever our mail system is. >> And and not only do you notify the lambs, but you know the neighbors there's more eyes on something. But just like you know she came up with this list of all the properties right but it doesn't have

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>> Oh >> it doesn't have on on the list it shows >> the back page. Show the back page >> the map. >> The map right. >> Forgot. >> Wrong page.

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>> Right now >> this is I know where they are. Maybe you do, but the average person don't because there's no coord coordination with the with the assessor. If you look at another map and and and you know head

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and say what other thing and and on assessor's map 23 and 24 that's easy to do. You go to the assessor say oh I know what that is now but that that's useless. >> I mean it's nice to have it but it doesn't work >> well with the mass the mass.js JS parcel map. I give you a list of all the

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parcels and then owner's names and their address. >> Yeah, that's >> with that couple clicks. >> Yeah. Yeah, it's Yeah, it's probably half hour. >> But we've never done it. >> And so if we did that, if I did that, if I provided that list or I guess maybe I should

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>> Yeah. I mean, is there a way that they could just automatically do it or you know, however, I don't know how they >> Yeah. list and then send it and ask for the mailings with their tax forms. Yeah. >> No, I mean it's that's >> No, no. I'm talking about the ones that are in chapter 7 97.

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>> That's two different things. >> I know, but whatever. >> But if somebody's book got a chapter 97 easement and they're a wetland, they're going to get the wetland. >> But a lot of that is chapter 97. But the average person was Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. That's a different issue. Yeah. I'm talking more Yeah. I'm talking

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more about the caring about the wetland as opposed to people know where the conservation areas are now. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I think can you look >> you can show show but you can't lead him to it or whatever people what to get the list of names >> for everybody

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>> and yeah I mean >> yeah it's just a mass js you got to do some linking of tables and stuff I mean I've done it >> I mean I can I can do it >> I'll do it I'll do it I mean Justin let me know we let's talk call me up >> sounds good >> another like down we've had problems

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down there so near Yeah, very right. You you make up a thing and and you say the Smiths whatever the number is are you aware that behind your property there's wetlands you cannot b you can't do anything there at all. >> We just come up with this a similar statement that goes in once we identify

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the list we get the list and what we want to say it goes over to somebody that does the mailings for the town and they put it in there. That's it. >> And and we're nice about it and not threatening. >> Yeah. Just so you know. FYI, your your property is

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was whatever when it comes a little and maybe a little proddding too whenever properties like the ones that we just came up with, >> you know, then you go to the neighbors and say, "By the way, this is what's happening over here and this is why because some of them are going to be

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affected, too." >> Yeah. I think >> so when there's a a po a possibility of neighbors don't because they're going to find out right away anyway. um neighbors neighbors finding out, you know, and we'd like them to find out what the real

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story is. >> Yeah. You know, >> anyway, I'm just >> when you have a title, >> my son is a title examiner. He's done it for a long, long time. >> I I'll give you an idea how bad it is. >> I won't tell you what time it is, but

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him and I are out on a Saturday in another town and we're going down. He says, "You see those three houses up in there was three houses on that on a little rise and they all came down into one curve cut of state highway." He says, "Dad, they're on the wrong side of

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the street." How's that one? You know, can you imagine? >> Yeah. >> Because the guy only did back to 50 years. He says if he'd gone back to 65 years, he would have seen him. >> We got to get back on track.

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Um so yeah so uh for DP um 160667 that's the golf course that's the one that also came in front of the commission last year for >> um because >> did they ever do that repair work >> they yes so the pipe has been fully

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replaced and installed um >> right now um we're mainly waiting on the final stabilization phase um during my last site visit with Commissioner Smith, uh we um did note

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that there was a pile of both rocky and woody debris that was still still laden pretty close to the limit of work. So, um we sent I sent correspondence to both the engineer and to the um person who

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does most of the work of the golf course. They're going to handle that in the coming days. Um and then prepare for final plantings and stabilization um for DP number 160678.

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Otherwise known as the old dam project down at the mount. Um during our last site visit, we did notice that there was a bit of settling of soils and even some

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I wouldn't say falls, but some death holes that were um >> that were created over the last couple months of wintering and melting and re freezing and thawing. Uh, and a number

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of the areas with the erosion controls looked pretty weathered. So, I also sent corresponds out to the engineer. Um, and they >> Is that a tire? >> Two tires. >> There were two tires. I don't understand. >> Just not not take those out. >> Yeah. But again, I sent all these

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pictures to the to to the engineer. So, they'll be >> When did you send the pictures? >> I sent that on Friday. And >> can you follow up on Friday? >> Thursday. He responded Friday after I

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left the office. Um, and I and he said that he would be working with the contractor. Well, he already showed them the pictures and they'll be handling the concern within the next week or so. So, >> this follow on Friday. >> Yep. Um, and then,

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um, I'll be taking a site visit out to the Keys Conservation Area on Thursday with one of the staff members from North County Land Trust in order to do a routine site check. Um, I'll probably be

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doing that early to midafternoon, probably around 2:00 on Thursday. Um, so we're just going to, yeah, we're just going to go over the status of where things are currently at with the project. um they might have an update in regarding to um the grading that we were

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discussing a couple months ago as well. So, I'm going to wait for that. Um the um the last of the grants was also submitted um couple days

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before the due date. Um, so now it's just a waiting game to see um to see if we were worthy of awards from either of the the grants. We'll see how we carry on from that. Um, and then one last

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update which is more professional development. Um, over Easter weekend I got accepted into graduate school. >> Um, So, >> but don't think you're still going to be

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working. >> Oh, it's it's it's night school. >> Yeah. >> But no, I'm hoping I'm hoping that the M&R program will help me to both develop and hone my skills a little bit better so I could

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be the sharper agent for you guys. Um, as well as giving me a little bit of expertise in some of the things that we definitely need help with such as restoration work. >> Yeah. >> So, yeah. >> What

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are you done? >> Y graduate. >> Did you have a chance about the bus company? We talked about it earlier. >> Go. Yeah, I did. I did drive out there. It does seem like the site is still open and the controls are still weathered.

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So, I'll be in contact with the engineer um to get on the get on the contractor and staff for that project. I'll probably do that tomorrow, Wednesday. So, that way tomorrow's good. >> Yeah, tomorrow's good. >> Good. Yeah. So,

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>> yeah. >> Yep. >> Congratulations. >> Anybody ever get to do business? >> That was my only thing. The bus company. So, I like to make a motion to close tonight's hearings. >> I'll make that motion. >> To second that motion. >> Second.

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>> All in favor? I