All right, good evening everybody. Let's get started. Uh, first on the agenda are public comments. Anybody in the audience have any comments or anything on the agenda? >> No. Good. Moving on. Meeting minutes. >> Would someone like to make a motion to
approve the meeting minutes of 11:2425? >> I'll make that motion. >> Someone like to second that motion. >> Second. >> All in favor? >> Nick, we got to do roll call. Nick, >> I >> uh Duncan, >> yes. David. >> Hi. >> Greg. >> Yes. >> Brian,
>> I don't think Brian actually called me. >> Okay. And uh Greg, myself, yes. So, move is approved. Uh the enforcement orders uh have been continued. Uh Sludge Landfill has been continued to January 26 of 2026.
Nicole 36 Nicole Terrace has been continued to 51126. uh 282 Brookside Drive is also continued through 511 2026. Uh uh hearings for the request for termination applicability 31 Traverse Street. Is anybody here to represent 31
Traverse Street? >> No. >> Did you hear >> that's been continued? Sorry. Continued to January 12th, 2026. Yeah. it over. Oh, I did. Sorry, I didn't have
a check here. Uh, the next is um, sorry, I'm skipping around too much. Request a certificate of compliance for D160 0670 68 Acadia Road. Is anybody here to represent? >> I'm here for that. >> How you doing? >> Good. >> State your name for the record.
>> Josh Johnson with Grass Engineering. I'm representing on this project. Um, I do have I don't know if you've seen these, but I have the Asel Pot plans. >> Thank you. >> Yeah, thank you.
>> And I just made five copies. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. So, this was that, if you guys remember, I think you were all on the board, that that weird um property that had the old camper and the L-shaped house that we proposed tucked in, had the zoning varants for it. and um he's
completed the house and everything looks good. Me and Justin went out there last week before it snowed so we could look at how the growth was doing and it's mostly all nice and grassed over other than there's a few spots around the driveway that could see some more
growth, but other than that, everything looks really stable and good growth out there. And it was put exactly in the right spot. 60.5 ft on one corner of the house of the wetlands and 60.3 ft on the other side. The stone trench that we
proposed around that patio was installed and appears to be functioning and that he actually cross pitched that patio. So everything's draining right into that stone trench for infiltration. >> Anybody in the commission have any questions or comments? >> Trusting you have anything to add to
this? >> No. really except that I think that the commission should well if the commission votes to give compliance to the situ >> track additional growth >> track additional growth through the
spring period >> and I I remember now when we were out there we talked about leaving half the silt fence up >> um because the basically the upper the right side of the house that's all way more than 85% growth but then down on the driveway way side. If we just left
that half of the silt fence up, we counted they could remove seven seven stakes worth of silk fence and then leave the down. >> Is it is is it working? >> Still it's towed in proper.
>> So everything else looks pretty good. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Good decision. >> And the property owner is okay with us requesting that leaving that silence? Yeah, I talked to him about that. >> And what do we think for a date before we decide to to take that down? What's
your proposal? >> I mean, the growing spring grows, >> I would I would say >> June 1st. >> Do you have to put a date on it? >> Well, I mean, I'm trying to make it friendly. So, you can kind of it starts growing, >> right? That's what I'm saying. >> Yeah, June 1st. Fine.
>> Just contact the >> Yeah. >> Our agent. >> Yep. >> Anybody have any questions or anything? >> Someone like to make a motion. uh to u approve the request of civic compliance with the um contingency that we're going
to leave the silence up in the drive uh driveway side until June 1st just to make sure the growth continues when what we expect to see and then the um applicant will just notify our agent once that June 1st comes along. >> Yeah, I'll make that motion.
>> All right, I'll second it. Um going around the the horn here. Uh Brian, you on yet? No. >> Nick, >> yes. >> Duncan, >> yes. >> David, >> yes. >> Karen, >> yes.
>> And myself is approved. Thank you. >> Yeah, >> uh, next is the notice of intent for 827 Green Street. Is anybody here represent? Sorry. >> The Gardener Conservation Commission hold a joint public hearing under MGL chapter 131 section 40 of the wetlands
protection act and city of gardener wetlands protection ordinance and a notice of intent filed by Mccardi engineering on behalf of uh gamma for the proposed construction of a building associated parking utilities at 827 Green Street. Gardener map R42211
portion of proposed work are said to occur within the wetlands buffer zone of several nearby water never sever by source resource area. Your name is >> Wesley PL from car engineering. >> Thank you.
>> Thank you. >> Thank you. So, at the last meeting that we had, uh, we went over the project, uh, show up here on the screen in front of you. Um, there weren't a lot of questions. I know we talked about just the layout of their entire site, just making sure that we're
putting this in the best location for the use uh for the user, but also in respect to uh the weapons ordinance that you guys have in place. At the time, we were waiting for the uh D file number. Um it took a little longer than we thought, so we actually continued at the
last meeting. We finally did get a file number. And so what I gave you this evening was a response letter to two things. First was Rob Oliver, who's the city engineer. He had some comments that came up during the site plan review process and then also the D comments that came up during their review of the
project and issued in your filing. >> And so I can quickly go over uh those comments if you would like. We can talk about that. >> And so the first items were were from Rob. U one of the things he asked for was just to make sure that we included the erosion of sediment control. Um and
he was looking for an additional plan. And so we do show the erosion of sediment control on the on the plan that we presented to the commission of the last hearing. I know we talked about when we did the sitew walk too. The site is very very flat out there. And so we're just we're just showing the straw
waddles along the u excuse me along the base of the the limits of disturbance um in these locations here. Um we think that's going to be uh proficient enough out there to handle any erosion that happens on the site. Like I said, the site is
extremely flat and so we don't expect a lot of erosion control, uh, a lot of erosion happening on the property. Um, in addition to the plan, we will be preparing a storm water pollution prevention plan as part of the EPA filing. And so we can get a copy of that to the commission or the planning
office. So, however you guys want to see that um, as we get closer to the start of construction, but when we get the closer to the construction phase, we will get that accomplished and we can get a copy of you guys if you want. I know that was part of obviously the uh DP standards also and so that's one of
the things that we checked off that we were preparing that item. Uh item number two had to do with the location of the surface water protection area making sure that we added that to the plan and so we added the the dash line here uh showing that delineation of the water
protection area and we talked about the last meeting and I called up that map at the last meeting. So we're out of the the surface water protection area as part of this project. We kept everything out of um all the work out of there including the the storm waters.
And then best part of that I'll show the plan too is up on the upper left hand side. There is a perennial stream that's on the property that's up in this area here. And so that that zone A that I'm showing here is that 200 foot offset the
outer repairing zone to that stream. and we're well away from that uh that area. And that was a comment actually that came up in the DP review. Also, uh item number three that Mr. Alva brought to our attention or brought to the plane board's attention had to do
with land uses with higher potential uh pollutant loads regards to standard five. And so we updated the storm water report to note that we are there is manure on the property that we do have to meet that standard. And then in that updated report, I do go over how we meet
that standard and it kind of goes in conjunction with D's comments um where she was looking for some additional information also. So one of the things that we do have have to do is we have the 1 in of runoff that we have to infiltrate back into the ground which we
already had done in the past. And then it was the 44% TSS removal um prior to the basin which we accomplished with the Pstone diaphragm and the floor bay is how we accomplish that 44% TSS removal. And then that falls into line with his
comment with number four just stating in on the previous document we did state that we were in a critical area. He just want to make sure that we also included the outstanding resource water in the narrative. Um but the same thing with that item number three, we just have to
meet the 1 in of recharge and then the um 44% TSS removal of pre-treatment before it gets into the the basin on the property. And then number five had to do with um before we were showing a small increase for the peak rate of runoff of
the two and 10ear storm event to this pocket of wetlands here. And so as part of the updated storm water report in conjunction with the comments that came from D, we updated our report and now we don't have any uh increases for any of the storm events. And so
I'll get into the D comments from Kimoth and kind of tie that those comments together. And so the first thing she brought up, she had brought up the thing about the being the perennial streams because she looked at the the maps and she just want to make sure that where the perennial streams were. Her comment
is It's a little different because she was talking about per stream and as part of this notice she just wanted to make sure that um when you if you were to issue a positive decision on this that we were showing that resource here. We're not asking you for the delination
that the perial stream as part of this notice. Um all we're asking for is as part of this the wetlands that are shown on the plan are just what's included as part of this notice. We're not this is a 100 acre piece of property. We're not asking you to certify any other wetlands out there. And so I don't know if it has
to be a special condition of approval as part of this that you're just certifying the wetlands that are shown on the plan and that's it. Um she brought it up because like I said, we're not looking to have the delineation of 100 acres um certified as part of this. So like I said, if it has to be a special condition, it has to be a special
condition. We have an issue with that. Um number two, with her comments, the same thing that Rob made sure that we show the zone A on the plan. She wanted to make sure that all our storm water BNPs are out of the sto zone A, which they are. we we knew they were from the the past conversations that we had with
this and so we just show that on our plan. U number three. So in our uh drainage uh calculations and so the the the soil map showed as an A/D soil and I know we talked about this the last meeting and so when we did our soil testing out there we found very high
ground water and so we we modeled at a D soil and so Kim actually asked Kim Roth here from DP asked us to model the the drainage as an A soil instead of a D soil because she thought it'd be more conservative that way so that we um take into account the change from an A soil
grass or or field in this case to an impervious surface because there's a there's a bigger difference there when you go from an A soil. And so I ran the ran the numbers with the a soil and it actually for our situation made it better u because when we looked at the a
soils for the entire site for what we're we're developing it actually made it actually the numbers actually worked out better for us u because I you know the way we looked at it we thought these soils were not take we weren't taking any account >> for the basin any infiltration for any of that for the for the basin and so by
her asking us to treat it as an a soil actually helped us some and so Um, and so that's where I can understand her reasoning behind it cuz she looks at it as launch of pavement, but it actually helped us go into an A soil. Um, number four comment
had to do with she had asked us to look at the first 18 inches of soil, seeing if we can get some infiltration through the first 18 inches of soil. But any of our infiltration BMPs that we have on site, um, we were going to end up taking out
that that first 18 inches, which is the top of the sub off of this. And so it, um, sorry. And so any of our the war based, it'll take that first 18 inches off anyways. And then the same thing with our PEO diaphragms that are located throughout the site. So we're going to
take off those 14 first 18 inches of soil. If we were to have more conversation with them, we'd actually um and I know we talked about the last meeting is during um wet season really it's that underlying soil that's going to be the
restricting soil because it's going to be like I said the high ground water is going to be right up there to 18 in deep. So it's going to uh restrict the infiltration during the wet seasons. But during the dry season the soils yes they are good underneath. When we did the septic testing uh the soils were were were good.
um standard uh number common number five had to do a standard form just about the TSS removal. So I updated the TSS removal calcs uh for that and included um and so we do meet the 80% TSS removal now and again it because she wanted us to use a oils it helps us with some of
those items and the last thing had to do with the O and M plan. So, I did update the ON plan to take away some of the confusion that she was having cuz we did reference it in a couple different ways. And I know I talked about it at the last meeting about during the wet season that the basin is going to act as a detention
basin. It's not infiltrated, but during the dry season, it's going to act as an infiltration basin. And so, that's why we in our narrative previously, we called it as both because it's going to act as both depending what season is. But it was it was adding some confusion when she was reading this. That's why I
just I just call it storm water basin is how I took away the confusion on it. Just called it one thing which is a sto basin and then so Mr. Chair I I know you're looking at the report. >> Well, we'll So that's why I was going to to touch on that right now. So
because we got this when we got it we got it on the Wednesday be at 3:00 before Thanksgiving. Our time to get everything turned around to you was very short. And so I would at least come to you and talk to you about these items knowing that I need to get you a paper copy of everything and electric copy
electro electronic copies also knowing that >> you had Thursday and Friday. I mean >> same >> if I wasn't if I wasn't busy coach on Thursday I would have I would have been doing it. So >> um and so it was funny. Right. So we get at 3 o'clock on the Wednesday and then last week the last week we were just
trying to catch up really from the holiday week. So, um, and so that's why we at least want to come to you guys and present our findings back to you knowing that you need to take a look at the updated, uh, drainage and we know that Rob also does too. Um, and we have no issue with that. And so, but I wanted to
bring at least the letter to you tonight. Um, I do have everything electronically so I can email email the commission tomorrow after tonight's meeting. U, but at least I wanted to have the conversation with you guys and I know you guys had seen the comments at least from DP. Um, and if you guys have any questions, if I need to update
anything after tonight, we'll update it when we have a final set of plans and a final set of kelks u after after tonight and put this thing to bed. So, but that was the intent. And then so I did see you looking for the the old kelsk. So, the old kelps again, we're done with the d soil. I'm going to give you the new
kelks run with an a soil. And in this instance, it it does help us because we weren't including a lot of things in our calcs because we're >> treating as a d soil, right? >> That stuff. >> Correct. And so that's that's what uh >> do you agree with that though? I mean >> I think our
>> I want to learn from this too because this is a little different here. >> So our initial analysis we did it as a deso for that reason because during the wet season Yeah. >> which I think is worst case. We wanted to make sure that we weren't putting anything out there that's going to fail. >> Do we think we're going to have a negative impact on the property? No.
>> No. >> No. Um because of the minor >> ponds out there. >> Correct. And that's why we have this isolated wetland that sits right behind the other barn, right? >> Is because the ground water is right there at 18 in, right? And so we have this isolated wetland. We have all these pockets of wetland. It's great for
farming, >> right? Wet property is great for farming and that's why it was a farm for so many years. >> Just not great if we were trying to do a big big development. But for what they're trying to do, they're trying to put a barn up there with a couple offices in there and a classroom and and use it for the just an accessory to what they're already doing on the property. I
think it uh you know what we're proposing I think is sufficient. And that's where so I'm going to get the like I said revised information over to you guys and then revise the information over to Rob for him to review it all. So I know uh Eric who's new on the planning board will also look at it because he has knowledge in in the storm water too.
So I know he had some questions at the last planning board meeting. I'm sure he will tomorrow night when we go in front of them. So but that was the intent is to come tonight and at least present >> how how far are they off of the brook? >> Off the brook. >> So here's here's the 200T auto repairing zone from the brook. Okay.
>> So probably 400. And so yeah, we're the basin's about 400 feet. Yes. >> Yes. >> Y >> and then there's the more swamp and the pond that goes out in that direction. Yes. >> Y and that's where this this line comes
in from is really that swamp area that area out to the to the stream. >> So you want So no, I don't I don't think I have any questions. you guys. >> No. No. >> I'm just reading on this. If a soil is
designed to dual hydraulic group A D, would that be us? >> That's us. Yes. >> This the way she did it, which are A and not D. Yeah. So, she said A. >> The first letter is drained for the drained areas and second's for the under drained areas.
>> And even when she brings up the first 18 inches, >> yeah, >> we never we never do our infiltration for the first 18 inch, right? So, it's top and subs soils. We're always stripping that and we're always looking at the >> table on that. Yeah. >> Correct. Exactly. So that's where in our initial drainage we didn't include any infiltration in our initial drainage
because we're >> during the wet season we're not going to get any infiltration. So um >> so that's like I said we we were trying to be as conservative as we could in the initial >> No, I agree with that. That's why we >> No. And
we've got different comments from her in the past on and we've gone back and forth sometimes on some of these items. >> This isn't worth dear. this but >> we'd rather have the conversation with the commission Rob and see what Rob's thought is and even like said Eric who who does some storm water review for the city of Worester now
>> yeah city right so um we thought having conversations with those two those two would be more beneficial >> all right you think you'll be ready to go by what is it the 18th our next meeting >> yeah so I'm going to >> the 12th I'm sorry >> yeah so what's that next Monday No.
Well, this we're in January, right? >> Yeah. >> Oh, yeah. Yes. >> Okay. >> Anybody else have any questions at all? No one. >> No. >> Oh, someone like to make a motion to continue the hearing for 827 Green Street to the January 12th meeting. >> I'll make that motion.
>> Some to second that motion. >> Second. All in favor? Nick? >> I? >> Yes. >> Davis? >> I >> Yes. >> Greg, yes. Is Brian on? I think we would have heard that. >> Okay. Sub is approved. >> Thank you.
>> Yep. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Uh next is 677 Tiffany Boulevard. Anybody here to represent? >> Come on. The garden conservation commission will joint public hearing under MGL chapter 131 section 40 wetlands protection act. the city of
gardener wetlands protection ordinance and a notice of intent filed by Folier LLC on behalf of Walmart real estate business trust proposed redevelopment and construction of a fuel station and convenience store with landscaping associated utilities and storm water infrastructure located at 67750
boulevard with map R 1261 portions of work are set to occur within the buffer zone of both water bordering vegetated bordering vegetated wetlands and isolated vegetated wetlands Your name is uh Connor and this with
Polar. Thank you. Thank you. Have to use my see. >> I know. >> Thought I was going blind here for a while. >> I know. Me too. >> Uh good evening. My name is Conor with Polar Engineering. Eric, also with
Fuller. Um, we are the the civil design and permitting consultants for the applicant Walmart real estate business trust. Here to present the intent application as well as the variance request for disturbance within the 30oot no disturb buffer and the 60oot no build
zone uh to construct a Walmart fuel station at 677 on both. Um, so I'll start just by giving the background of the existing conditions on site and and touch on the resource area uh that triggers the notice of intent
and the buffers associated with that. Then I'll get into what's being proposed and how we looking to pull back some of the disturbance within those buffers. Um, and it improves the water on site as well. So with that, um, yeah, as mentioned,
the site is 67 Tiffany Boulevard. It's it's the Walmart Super Center. However, for the area of development, we're just looking at the small area of parking along the eastern portion of the property. It's bound by Tiffany Boulevard to the east um bordering
vegetative wetlands to the north and also to the south across the the Walmart drive aisle and then to the west is just the bay parking area for the Walmart and the Walmart super center itself. Um, per master, the site's not located within a estimated habitat of rare
wildlife or priority habitat of rare species, nor is the site mapped within an area of critical environmental concern or outstanding resource waters. And there are no potential or certified vernal pools on on site. Zoom
to better existing conditions plan. Uh, so as you can see, there's there's not much out there. It's a pave parking area. Um there's some utilities associated with site lighting and then there's some areas of of landscape
islands um out there today. There is a metal guide rail along the northern edge of the property um with a stone bank that goes down to the wetland edge. There's one existing catch basin on site um that captures the majority of runoff
on site um which goes untreated and discharges directly to the wetlands out there today. Um what's so I mentioned that the 30 foot no disturb and the 60 foot no build zone. Uh it's tough to see on this plan but there's this highlighted or really
faint gray line um kind of this northern half that's the 60 foot and then right there I can't reach up there but that's the 30 foot stair buffer. So you can see within those buffers today, um there's
pavement within those and um really not much else. There's the catch basin and some sight lighting as well. Uh and then this has been constructed as part of the Walmart when it first went in. That was constructed in 1994. Uh which predates
when the the city's local protection bylaws went into effectively since 2004 on the city's website. Um, so really what Walmart's looking to to do, uh, they're looking to propose a
1,618 ft² kiosk building along with an eight multi-product dispenser fuel station with a 4,800 ft² canopy. Um, along with new pave parking areas, utilities, new landscaping, a new storm water
management system. And there are our three underground storage tanks to to the right of the site here. Um so really the the work that we're doing within the um buffers we have we're demoing the existing pavement um
right up against that that guide rail uh that that hugs the edge of the wetlands. We're pulling that in um and then replacing it just with dry pile around the around the site. Um and then within the 60 ft you have that same pavement that pavement replacement that we're doing. However, a
portion of the the building trash enclosure fuel canopy and a small portion of the other known fuel tanks are within that 60 ft um no or no build zone. The underground storage tanks are highly highly regulated um and they'll be reviewed by the state as well as the
city. Um they'll be reviewing the design to really ensure that there there's no leaks or or any issues with those tanks. >> Yeah. Talk more about the tanks. What what are I know highly regulated. What what's what style are they? How many gallons are they per tank? Uh spill containment
um alarms, sensors, who's monitoring the sensors? How >> Yeah. So all that is is monitored um inside the building with the the store clerk. I don't have the design of the underground tanks themselves. Um there still be under development from the architect and 90 on this one.
>> Is this open 24 hours a day or >> No, it it'll be open um the same time as the the Walmart is today which >> I just was thinking like if the tank has a a problem and there's nobody there and it's leaking. How is there is it tone out to somebody else? Is there an auto
dialer? >> Uh I can I can get you that information. um that all the the information on that tank be reviewed when we get the storage license. Um >> you know what I mean? What if what if we decide we're not going there and you're you're out getting the license? I I'm
just curious on what that means and then fire protection wise you're having a dry system, >> dry chemical system for fire protection. >> I I don't know that information. Um the building will be up to the latest Massachusetts. Yeah, because what I'm
worried about is if there is a fire or there is a, you know, a discharge, what that chemical is and it's what where it's going to drain to because if that other catch basin or it's going to be filtered, but this we probably want to know some of that information. >> Yeah. Um I I understand.
>> I don't expect you to be a fire protection guy. >> I'm I'm not I'm not by any means any fire protection or a mechanical engineer or >> Yeah. No, I understand. Yeah. You're a civil guy. I get it. I'm just those are some things that we'd probably be interested in. I know everyone says, "Oh, the conservation, they only care
about the water." Well, if this stuff spills and it goes into the catch basin, it's going to overwhelm the catch basin and the interceptor or whatever else you have there and it's going to drain towards the wetlands. The same thing with the fire protection. And >> I'm guessing it's a dry system and it's going to be a foam system, but um
there's potential there. I don't know what that foam is. So, I'd like to know what that is and um how that would be treated. And also I know all these tanks have interstitial alarms to them and they're probably have you know a tank within a tank and they're probably the interstitial tank is if that leaks it goes into a larger tank and that can
handle um 110% of the total volume per tank but I want to know how that's being monitored and what the plan is if there is an issue. And I also want to know what the plan would be if there someone's pumping gas and they have a spill um and it's larger than something can pick up with a pig type containment
system where it's going to flow to and what that process is from like an O and M type manual. >> Um that stuff I know again everyone thinks conservation doesn't care but in this situation you know you're so close to the no build in that 1630 um there's minimal time to to react to that. I'm
just >> Yeah. Um, so I'll I'll take back a lot of those questions to to our team. I I'll get you those answers. Some of the things I can try to address um on that is if you're at the pump and there's there's fuel spilled. So around the
outskirts of of the canopy, it's a concrete pad underneath. You see it at a lot of fuel stations today. The concrete has the very edge has the the row of bevels. I forget the actual the name of it. Um but that purpose is to capture spills. Um, and
>> what happens is nobody cleans those. So, they're full of dirt and then they just I've built a few gas stations in my day. So, um, yeah, if you don't maintain that, hence the on manual, >> cigarettes and stuff and trash and dirt and sand and grit gets in there >> and it fuel actually over overwhelm that
>> Yep. Yeah. So, we have I'm sure you guys have a plan for it, but >> Right. We can capture that specifically in our our operational maintenance plan. Um, we did submit an operation maintenance manual as part of our drainage report, uh, which was submitted with this application and and we can kind of detail some of those specific to
keep the dirt out of that. >> Well, yeah, I mean, I'm sure they do and they hydro they they pressure wash it and they do all kinds of stuff to maintain it, but >> yeah. And then some of the other concerns about oil spills in in general um that I guess just to touch on storm water too is as part of the whole new
storm water management system runoff's going to be captured by a series of deep sump and hooded catch basins. um it'll be conveyed through that the closed pipe system to an under small underground detention basin here and then prior to
discharge to the same same spot to the wetlands you have what's called a a jellyfish unit there. It's a propri proprietary water quality unit that's specifically meant to in this instance it was it was to treat phosphorus um to meet the city's local rates there u but
but through the the sumps um and the hoods on the catch basins know all the portables will it will be captured there and if it does sink through there's there's also the scale safe with the additional treatment manual >> when you come before us next time I'd also like to see a copy of the on and
manual for Walmart as you know the exterior at Walmart because Duncan, I don't know if you remember, Dave, you might have been on the cusp of when they did their last expansion. We talked about their operations and maintenance plan because when I'm there, the trash in the wetland is disgusting. It just it's never picked up. If you park along
that side and you look in the woods, it's bad. >> Yep. >> And that's just, you know, there there's a maintenance plan there. I've seen it. I just want to see it. And who's been signing off on it over the years? >> Yeah, I can I can get you that as well. When we were out there, the snow was pushed
>> into the wetlands. >> Yep. >> That's why and that snow should be >> there's salt on the >> pavement. There should be in that in that on end. It should be where you're supposed to be pushing the snow. >> And I believe we modified that Duncan. I don't know if you remember that,
>> but >> yeah, we can we can talk to Walmart um about those concerns specifically and get you the the maintenance manual. Uh, one thing I I do want to just touch on on as part of the parents request for uh work within the the 30 foot and and the
60 foot buffers. Uh, I know we we met on site uh Ken and and Justin and I on on Friday. Uh, I kind of pointed out where some of the proposed features would be. I I heard concerns that typically that the city does a grant waiver s such as
this. Um but with the building and this park near be constructed prior to the wetland bylaws, I think this provides just an opportunity for the design to to pull back some of that disturbance that was um next to to the wetlands. Um so so this exhibit you can see the wetlands
and the buffers are highlighted in blue and then in green will be the the wetland or it's the landscape area that we're giving back to the um to the borders. And you can see how how much we're pulling back in this area
trying to hug the existing curb maybe a foot or so at the top and then to the right where the where the tanks are. We're pulling them back in as well. um still within the 60T buffer as we noted and get you information on the underground tanks, but I think this exhibit does a good job of showing.
>> Yeah, I'm sure you'll you have all the data I'm asking for. It's pretty standard. >> Yeah, >> they just everyone overlooks conservation like we don't know. Um the other thing is I'm jumping around a little bit, but can you give us some fulls size drawings? I pulled it up on my screen at work to see it better, but I just the elevations. Can you talk
about the the elevations and how it's going to sheet flow for storm water? I mean, >> yes. >> Do you have that? Yeah, there you go. >> Um, so >> can you just kind of go over that so we better understand it? >> Um, so let me let me back up and go to existing first. I think that will
paint a better picture. So you have here um 1014 1013 uh 10 1012 and then that catch basin has a rim of 101.8. Yep. So you can kind of follow the contours everything sheets flow to that catch basin today.
>> And then proposed we are providing some more catch basins but but with the canopy we wanted with the the fuel canopy and areas we wanted to keep that as flat as possible. Um I think right now we have a minimum of or maybe a maximum of 1 and a half% under that
area just so that if there are any spills it drains very very slowly and they captured our containment. What that does is that we have to add a bunch of of bridges and low points throughout the site. So this area here essentially all drains
inwards towards this catch basin. Same it's essentially divided into quarters. So this quarter is captured here. This is captured there. that is captured the top right and then this top portion is captured here. There's a small area over
here that just due to the existing grain of the site, we can't pitch it back to that area um just due to minimum covers on on some of the catch basins and then minimum slopes that you would want to run pipes at. We we couldn't get all of it into there. So, there's this tiny
portion of this this dry bile that still drains into the the site. Um, however, that that's an area that's away from um all the all the fuel operations as well. >> Yeah. When I asked for that manual in the check off, I'm spec specifically
looking the last time they cleaned that existing storm basin out. So, if you could find that information. >> Yeah. >> Um Okay. >> Yeah. And then as part of that in here, they put catch more. >> Well, I think the way that's why we went over the elevations and stuff.
>> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I thought that was a lot. He's saying along the front of the >> Yeah, there's nothing like where the where the building is. There's no checkation in there at all. >> Um >> I don't see one. >> So the the roof >> roof leader drains will tie in and run out. >> The roof leaders are here. >> Oh, okay.
>> They tie in to the system. >> They bypass the underground detention, but they still get treated by the the water quality unit. >> Um and then there's a yard drain here as well that ties back into the system as well. >> Go ahead. Hey, just two clarifying. Um,
can you just explain what what this section is here? >> Um, that >> Yep. That is a uh a trash enclosure. >> Okay. And then the building, it's basically just cut off. And then what's where is that border the 60 ft
border going for that corner of the building? >> This 60t. >> Yeah. Keep going. Right there. >> What's that? >> That house used to be >> dumpster, isn't it? >> No, the dumpster. This is the dumpster. This is just more some utilities. Uh it's kind of like a shed area. Um
>> storage. >> Storage. >> Where are the utilities coming in and out? And what about what about the bathrooms inside? >> So utilities are connecting back to the Walmart uh infrastructure when they're coming into the building
and they're all in this front corner and then that's the sewer. are sort of coming into that same kind of enclosure. >> So they're all going within that 60. All utilities flow through the 60 still. >> Um the electric and some of the the roof leaders where they tie in do not the
sewer comes in there and the water comes in there as well. >> Where's the transformer going? >> Transformers at the the front of the site. >> All right. >> Yeah. Um there's another question in there, right? Oh, bathrooms. Yeah, it's like
>> So, let me >> So, I guess the I don't really care about the bathroom. I meant the sewer, but >> Yeah. So, the sewer is going through there, but >> now is that sewer line going to be concrete encased or how is that going to go through the the 60 and the 30? >> Um, >> what was your plan? You haven't been
there yet. >> We have We're not down that road uh yet uh in terms of that that level of detail. We're calling it out as just PVC. Um, >> you had a question, Duncan? >> Well, if that building was turned this way,
you'd be out out of it. And this was brought back, you'd be out of the 62. >> I think it's because of turning radiuses. Is that correct? >> That's correct. Yeah. >> You have a drawing that shows that sometimes I've seen the drawings where they actually show the drop flow. >> Yeah. Um, I don't have it saved down to
my desktop. I have it on server so I can't pull it up now. Um, but we do have something I can provide that as well that just shows the turning radiuses of of the delivery and the fuel and tankers. >> And what what drives how many tanks are there? We're just trying to figure out as we always do, what can we do to get
it out of those zones, >> right? >> Yeah. Uh, so that's determined by the architect in MEP. Um >> was it so many gallons per day they're trying to pump and then >> I assume I assume there's some correlation with the the amount of um fueling positions and what they
anticipate uh to to how much storage they need on site so that they >> is there is there city gas in that >> how they going to heat the building? >> Uh the building is electric only. >> Got a new stretch engine code that right?
>> Yep. So, no use fossil fuels in some of these. >> It's crazy. >> Are you committed to that many pumps or can you get rid of those two at the top? >> I think as of now, they're committed to to that many pumps. >> I guess we need to know what drove how
many pumps they they acquire. >> Sure. >> We're always just trying to, like I said, get it out of those zones. I know it's going to predisturb, but >> the less less impact is is better. Right? >> If they're saying they're expecting, you
know, I don't know, a thousand cars a day or something and they're going to pump, >> I don't want this to be I don't want the wetlands being impacted because they want to drive a certain amount of revenue per day or per month of fuel sales. >> Yeah, I I I get that. Um, also the potential solution just to shift these
tanks. It looks like we might have some room to shift them down out of that 60 foot or buffer. >> Um, there's there's some room here. We were trying to keep it further away from the road so you just don't have sidewalk pavement. It's We have a lot of landscaping here as well that just aesthetically
looks looks nice when you're pulling into Walmart. It's out there today. We want to >> replicate that as as much as possible. >> Pull it down. Yeah, they would be out of there. >> There's plenty of >> Yeah, I know. But what they're saying is if they come in a fuel truck, >> they can't they can't make this turn and get back up. If you pull this all the
way down, >> they can move the tanks though. other things though. >> Yeah. >> Yeah, that's that's where where I'm heading as we can. >> How about the building? >> Put the building this way. Why? It's kind of cocked off. Anyways, >> again, it's probably a traffic flow. I
don't know. It's probably fire code and everything else that's involved. >> There are there are codes too that uh the pumps each pump needs to be visible uh not visible. It needs to be I want to say 100 ft from the emergency shut off with >> emergency shut off. isn't typically
closer to >> Yeah. >> Well, I The ones I've done too are also this um EPOS's in in line with the tanks right on the the uh canopy structure.
>> Maybe I I don't know that permission of where those are next to the the canopy structure. Um I know there there's requirements to of how far from the the building and the store clerk. um to each each fueling position.
So that's kind of sets sets the relationship of how far you can have the the building and cater related. So you can't really shift the building down here and have the copy still up in that area because then you lose that that visibility to each pump which is a
requirement. >> And obviously there's that that on top of the canopy that's roof leader drains coming down and tying in. >> Yep. Yeah. Those are leaders tie into the same system. >> And then um the bottom tank to the right, that's already there, right? That little catch, that little base in there,
that little retention area right, >> is that already there? >> That is already there. >> And you guys do any test borings or anything in here yet? >> Uh yes, we have preliminary uh boring logs that just show it's it's not great soils. Um high pretty high ground water
soils that aren't suitable for insert infiltration. And it's what you typically expect for a site in the next 11 months. >> So you said preliminary that mean you're doing it again. >> Oh those tests were those were provided in
the uh drainage report as well. >> How many did you do and what locations did was it in there? You got it. >> Yeah. This is our our drainage report which was submitted as part of the >> I didn't have time to read 232 pages but >> that's okay. Thank you.
>> All right, Justin said he'd read it and critique it for us later. >> Yeah. So, here's the location of the borings. Um, this the this layout is obviously an updated layout from when they did borings. This was the concept drawing. So, just take that with grain of salt.
The layout actually changed, but the area's there. You can see where they did the borings. Um, then if you want to see the results, you can go through those. >> No, I'll look on here. It's okay. I was just curious where they did them. >> Yep. Now, who chose which way? They obviously did it because that's where the structure would be,
>> right? How high is the groundwater? So, groundwater. So, this is B 2011. This one is 7 ft below surface. This one is Oh,
wait. >> When was that done? This was done in January 2025. So 11 months ago. >> Do they put a liner underneath all that? >> That's what I was just going to ask about these tanks. >> No, but in the whole Do they do they
like vapor barrier all that >> underneath the pavement? >> All of what? >> Because you got ground water at 7 ft. What? How do they do that? >> Um until when they constructed this. >> No, no. When when you're going to build and you're paving, >> right? And you're bringing the site up
to elevation. >> Yeah. >> Is there a vapor barrier system in case there's a large spill between the pavement in the groundwater at 7 ft? >> I don't know. I'm asking. I I don't >> I Yeah, not typically. Um, usually the
the pavement is impervious and it just routs all the spill and water to >> So, yeah, it's not something I've I've seen. >> Um, sorry, I thought you >> No, no, no. You just met the pavement section in
>> I know I haven't seen it. I have a new house now when they you know this this is the house but when and this is the kind of codes for mass when they did the floor right they put down crush rock a vapor barrier
more crushed rock and then the final the cement >> yeah it's a little different as you were finished >> oh yeah the same but you know Yeah, >> everybody's paranoid about that. I'm just, you know,
>> go ahead. >> Just for the record, I'm I'm just going to ask if for next time if there's any wiggle room on that building >> and getting out of 60. If it's eight pumps or no go to get them out of the 60. >> Yeah. Yeah.
>> And I know you can move the tanks down, which is good. >> So, those are things to at least inquire about. >> Agreed. You know, when you go through the building, the buildings, >> the building is I don't know how is we'll say it's it's got to be what 100
ft from the from the canopy >> roughly. >> Uh roughly. Yeah. From from not not just the the canopy, it's from the the fueling position. So, >> the canopy or whatever you want. >> Does it have to be 100 ft? >> Um,
right. I that's that's the the maximum. Um but what's driving the these dimensions of of the drive file at all is for for circulation which is another thing that was was asked of us is is we can provide exhibits showing kind of how the delivery vehicles uh circulate the
site um and the need for the drive being that width. Um, and then typically too between uh the parking spaces that get to the building and the pumps, there's a lot of just traffic and and atypical
traffic that you normally see of just a a parking aisle where you have people two-way. Like in this in this instance, you'll have the two-way and then you'll have people in these positions trying to make turns right or left out of there. Um, so it's pretty typical of of fuel stations to have a wider drive aisle between
the parking spaces against the building and >> so that's the the couple's in East Temple. The pumps are in front and the and the and and the building's in the back. >> Yeah, >> that's what he's kind of doing though.
>> If you think about it, if you're driving and it's almost the same layout as this. >> Yeah, I you're doing a good job answering our questions. We're just trying to think of everything. >> If you if you you know, if you could erase all that and put put the fuel
>> the canopy in the front >> and and and the the the >> the building >> the building in the back. >> Now they they did it and he's you know Cland Farm did it. That's in fact they that's the way that come all Cumberland farms go. >> I Yeah. I guess
>> the fueling is done in front and the convenience store whatever it is is in the back. I think that's kind of what's going on here. We have the this is Tiffany Boulevard and the the fueling is right up against it. Okay. The access is is here from from Walmart to come in. So the fueling is in the front and the
building is tucked behind. >> But you could reverse it. >> Well, it be this >> I think we run into >> We're just trying to get you out of the 60. >> Yeah, I I understand the intent. We can take a look at what wiggle room we'd have with with the building and the pumps. Um, but if if this were flipped,
I think the canopy would still just end up in in that area. >> Can you talk about constructibility wise? I mean, how far down do these footings go for the canopy and for the building? And what about dewatering and all that stuff if you got 7 foot? So, what are you going to do? Take Yeah. >> How many feet are you going down? Then
you're going to build it back up again. >> I don't have information on on foundations at this time. Um, >> it's in here, but this is just a >> those are >> I could take this and build my house with this one. So I'm just curious on >> yeah that's recommendations from from the geotech what the footings would need to be just based on what the soil
conditions uh final design would be provided um down down the road. >> Okay. >> Um and then as far as just constructibility we do we are proposing erosion and control measures on site. Um we have our our stockpile areas out of
those >> those buffers. We have a double row of silk fence which was a some good feedback from the preliminary site plan review to to provide that double row along the the wetlands here as well just to protect just triple triple check that
um the wetlands are secured during construction. And we just have our typical inlet protection um for existing and proposed schedule just on that construction. Feel like here it says uh on your this
is probably a very high level draft storm water and operation and maintenance plan. They're saying they're going to sweep very gracious of them. They're going to sweep the parking lot twice a year. So that's why I'm saying those this time of year especially those those I know
what you're talking about the little cuts the relief cuts in the concrete supposed to capture any spill. >> I mean they're going to only do it more on a more frequent basis during sanding. So, they're going to sand in there, too. So, how are they going to maintain all the storm basins filling up with sand?
>> Uh, that's I believe there's information about catch basin cleaning as well. The sand would be >> Don't mind the sand. It's a salt. I wonder cuz they're not treating it with sand. They're treating it with some kind of a chemical. Everybody is doing it. >> Yeah, that's what I'm saying. This is
probably But you guys are very gracious. They're giving you a $1,000 budget to maintain this thing. That's what it says. approximate maintenance budget $1,000 per year. That's nice. We've just run into what happens is
these we we allow these buildings to be built and then it looks great and then a year goes by, two years goes by and no one's maintaining it >> just like the trash all over the the Have you Have you been there? >> Yeah, we were out there on you saw that Friday. Yeah, they were storing um
containers there. There was some some trash in the snow. Yeah, we we all saw it. Um, but I think that's that's part of this too is is we can if we kind of move forward with this, we can make it conditions of approval that this maintenance does happen. You guys
can regulate it where whereas now there's there's not much to be done. We can we can speak to Walmart and and let them know, hey, be be neighborly. Um, keep that in mind. >> But the problem is it's already in there. They're already supposed to be doing it. They're not. >> Okay.
Underground detention basins preventative maintenance after every storm event during the first three months of operation and at least twice per year thereafter instruct structures pre-treatment BMPPS just we want to look at that a little bit more make it a
little bit more robust because it's so close to the wland >> right do you have any other recommendations um maybe add to the >> put put the fuel in the front and the and the building in the back just bring that by see what they think because you Like I say, you know, I'm not I'm not in
the level of Cland, but that's the way Cumberland does it >> and they do it all the time, you know, and you know, the one in East Tubble, there's a there's one in in in orange that, you know, they're they're fairly new, you know, >> and and the fueling is always in the front and the building is in the back.
>> Yeah, we can we can take take a look at at what an alternate layout may look like with the two flipped. Um and and that that puts the the fueling I think might put it closer to to some of these boundaries. >> It's it's an awkward shape pavement
area. I think we're >> doing the best best we can with with this layout. I mean we we >> it's a tough it's tough. It's it's a tough area. >> Um and they're really looking to to >> redevelop this this area. >> Um >> do you have isolator rows?
>> Yes. Yeah, we have isolator rows um coming from both ends. So here's one of our in the control structures. Here's here's the second to go into the isolator row. And then this is the out control structure which then >> How deep are those? Do you know? I'm just curious. If you don't know, you don't know.
>> No, I I I have that information on on the blend. >> I think it's still work with that with that water table. So high, >> right? I think we said it was 7 ft or so. >> That higher than we had it. >> Well, that was in January. Yeah, I know. like film.
>> So, >> all right. >> With hydrarology, you're going to be taking all that pressure and you're going to be taking that water table trying to take it down. >> Yeah. So, >> you're going to force it somewhere, >> right? >> Right. I I get your concern, I think, um
to kind of push back on that a bit. So, 7 ft down from existing. Um the way we designed this is that we have the bottom of of the stone beneath that infilt beneath the infiltration detention system >> um is is still above that estimated
seasonal high groundwater level. >> Um >> so that doesn't seem right, does it? I got I mean the reports here but >> I I I'm I'm surprised that and I'm not saying you're wrong but the the wild
table is a 7 ft that's unusual for around here >> you know if you that's how close he is to the wetland 14 ft you know >> I would that's that's why it's it's it's challenging and that's why we're doing detention
>> because again so then we can get closer to That parking lot was filled at one point, right? So at some point it was much lower and they filled it so far to go go with it. >> Well, that's true, too. We didn't have that ordinance back, right? >> Yeah. >> They did the same thing when they did McDonald's. You remember that?
>> Okay. >> Can you kind of just go over this jellyfish again? >> Do you know anything about it? If you don't, you don't. I mean, I'm not I'm >> Yep. Yeah. So, we we've proposed them on projects before. Um, so it's a high hydrodnamic separator unit. um runoff
flows into. So, let's see if I have a good detail of it on the plants. All right. So, this is generally what it looks like. Um it might not be exactly what it ends up looking like in terms of the dimensions um just because they're each they're they're custom built by by
contact. Um >> does contact make the um underpavement is that a different company? the ones we put in the 99 the Colt tech two of companies never mind yeah they both make the underground um
>> okay they make the same product call something different >> okay >> um all right so the jellyfish you know so runoff comes in from it's piped in say this way there's baffles in here and and bypass we so they're higher so the
runoff comes in enters the the jellyfish so enters this portion where it has those removable cartridges. Um these cartridges they some chemical operation happens where it removes nitrogen and phosphorus and then it flows back into
the outlet pipe. Um and then they have the the bypass weigh up as mentioned to handle any any overflow event or any marsh with um large storm events. So >> is is that like have a an alarm in it or something or is it only um intervals
where those those are cleaned? There is intervals where where it's where it's cleaned. Um the maintenance on this um there there's specific maintenance that needs to be done on it. Uh it comes recommended from from contact. >> Yeah, I'm reading it. I just didn't know like what if some I'm just thinking what if there's a failure here and we don't
know it. What happens? But I don't >> Yeah, the maintenance on these things. So you pop open the grate, you pull out each cartridge essentially just hose it down, pop it right back in. So the only thing that happens go to the cartridges is they might get >> um like the pores on them might get clogged. Um I call them pores. I really
don't know what >> the membrane. Um >> so they hose them down but they're all have all chemicals on them. So where that's another thing where I'm interested where are they going to do this maintenance? >> Um >> they take it off site because it's going to be >> they have they have a a truck that comes
in as part of the maintenance. I think >> can you find out more about that? >> Yeah, I can. I mean, if we were this sitting it down right there and it doesn't make any difference at all. >> Can you see if we have any other of these in the city at all? If Dana or Rob
has ever done any of these jellyfish, >> I've seen Coltech. That's what I was thinking, but not to this. >> Is that what they did 99? >> 99 is a whole different system, but check that. >> It's pretty cool. >> Yeah. I'm interested in that because I I just want to know that's basically what's protecting the wands, right?
>> Yes. So it >> that's something else. >> Yes. Um that's what the waterfall unit. >> Um UL listed and can you give us all that information as well? >> What the >> what the Yeah. What's the Yeah. What's what's the what are the inspections and
what are the what's the criteria they're built to the standards and who you know these who regulates the construction of these? >> Um >> it's just a lot. This thing fails where where have we have problem? >> Yeah I I understand it's >> it might be in here. I just didn't see it. main part of the the the storm water
kind of going on >> and how good is it? >> Well, that's what I'm asking. I mean >> good in terms no mean you know if we have you know know a tanker comes in there dumps 6 8,000 gallons and it's on the wrong pipe and it's all you know
it's going in the drains right which happens. >> Yeah. It it goes into the drains and then it's ultimately captured in this in this unit before it gets discharged. Um I mean will it capture what overwhelms this unit I guess? >> Will it capture thousand gallons? >> What?
>> Uh so yeah so the size of this is not even approximate. It's just for illustration purposes. Um that is actually designed with contact. They we we provide them probably the 100year storm event. They size it based on the water quality flow of that. So they can
provide it for those type of events, the the large storm events, uh which is someone dumping something. They shouldn't be dumping anything at all. Um but I'm assuming it's going to be less than any 100 years. >> And then just to to touch on maintenance, I'm doing my best to just
explain what contact explains to me, but they have it outlined too. So trying to just draw back the memor memory. I know they do have a maintenance team. It's usually contracted through contact themselves that will come out. >> Yeah, they're going to be a certified maintenance company. But we did we did if if this goes through, you'll have to
go out there and clean and >> just keep busy. >> Do you see this thing? >> Okay. >> I have a question. You're talking about turning radius of the trucks that's coming in to deliver. >> Yes. >> You expect them to come in the driveway and make that hard right turn?
>> No, we do not. >> You make them go the second one. So what they do is >> or they do it right from the road. >> They do it from the other entrance into Walmart. So this northern um drive aisle
>> it's up by HC CHC. Yeah. >> So they they come in that one and they come around and they actually enter the site through this turn radius and then they also leave the same way. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> Huh. >> Okay.
there's no chance of a traffic study occurring and having to modify the entrance and exit as it stands today. >> So, we we have a traffic study prepared. Um, >> does it modify the entrances and or any of the retention or detention ponds that are there currently?
>> No. No, does not. I can read you some of the conclusions. I'm don't believe you submitted the traffic study as part of the NOI. As >> long as it doesn't affect us, I'm just curious. >> Um, just for curiosity sakes sake. um projected to
first. Yep. Lines of sight at project site west drive intersection for the east interval internal driveway were found to exceed the recommended minimum safe distance for operation based on speed of 30 mph. The project will generally not have a
significant impact on motorist delays or vehicle queuing at singleized or uns sing signalized intersections compared to anticipated future conditions without the project which is called no build conditions where you just apply a fact a growth factor for no build conditions and compare it to build conditions.
>> Who did the road study? VHP. >> Uh Venus. >> Yeah, VHP. Yeah, >> not VH VI. >> Oh, okay. Sorry. So they're said there's never going to be a chance that we're going to be back here later on saying traffic's too much now. We need to cut into those detention.
>> If if you're at on 2A, you know what 2A is? the lights at 2A and the next set of lights that go into the plaza and then and then all the way to the the lights at Walmart. Walmart paid for all that
cuz they wouldn't the city wouldn't let them build on that if they didn't put control lights all the way through that. >> Oh, sure. >> Yeah. Which was a big expense of all, you know, I'm just >> getting a little bit >> I didn't know that background. So, thank
you. >> Yeah. I've been here so long I know that >> How far are we away from the water across the park the uh street? Is it 200 or more? >> Yeah, it's a scale on this thing. drop. So,
>> yeah, it's 400. >> Does that pass under the road right around or does it pass under the under the road? >> Uh, that's further >> down, right? >> No, further north when it crosses that. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. Further up. >> Okay, good. >> Yeah.
You're doing a good job. You're getting drilled here. >> Yeah, I expected it. >> You knew we were going to ask >> when you go back. Just tell them you were threatening. You don't need to come back. >> You're doing great. >> This a very sensitive area. So, we just
want to make sure. >> Yeah. >> Yep. >> Yeah. And I mean the highlights are we're trying to pull back the area while still making it developable work from circulation standpoint and then we are providing just the increase storm water um water quality as well just based on
on what's out there today. Uh I understand your concern that is a fueling station. There may be any type of oil spill that happens which might not be happening out there today. Granted there's a parking lot so you still get the the chemicals from cars out there. um should they should they
park in this area? But ultimately that the storm water management system is is designed to to handle the the use of the site and also treat water quality being the city and the state requirements.
>> All right. So we're waiting basically waiting on D comments and >> Yeah. Yeah. We don't have the D U number yet as of 440 when I last checked product. Um I I did speak with the D reviewer. They said they should expect it sometime soon.
>> Yeah, whatever that is. >> They're way. >> Yeah, they are. >> So, do you want us to continue to the 12th or the 26th of January? >> Trying to give you guys enough time to get everything together. The holidays, I don't care, but >> 12th is
>> okay. Do you have any questions for us? >> Um, >> what is the next day? >> The 12th. >> January 12th. >> January 12th. >> Yeah. >> You have any questions for us? >> I just want to make sure I'm sure I'm capturing everything that I need to provide for for next time. So, uh, we're going for for we'll take a look at what
we can do with with the layout um, >> and run that by by Walmart and see what they think because ultimately it's their decision on how they want their design. Can I just maybe you know you people as the engineers >> did did you come up with this or is this
a standard Walmart type thing? >> So >> and if you can't tell me that's fine. >> Yeah I mean Walmart has their standard like building um building size and canopy and they have their um drive aisle widths that are what they would require for this type of stuff. So so we are limited by those constraints of just
what they want on their sites. >> Yeah. Uh and then we kind of take it from there and try to form fit as best we can to to an area that they they designate. Um which is is >> happens to be call. >> I don't know if that's going to be
seven turkeys in in Massachusetts that don't want to do it. No >> turkeys. Call us turkeys. Yeah. >> All right. Someone like to make a motion to continue tonight. >> I'll make that motion >> to January 12th, 2026. I'll make that motion second. He will
>> Did you Sorry. You wanted to go over? >> Uh, >> sorry. >> No, just running through the list. So, get on in manual for current Walmart. Um, we'll see if we have any wiggle room for the building in general too about keeping similar layout. Just trying to shift things further away from the
buffer if we can. And then, uh, ask about eight tanks versus six tanks and get you some reasoning behind how they they land on those numbers. And then you were speaking about the just the operation and maintenance manual in general. Did you have any recommendations? >> No, we just want to No, I want to see
what it is there is currently. >> And then what about >> I want to see the sign offs on and who's signing off that's being done today and what the plan is for this one a little bit. That one's very generic. I understand that. But we want to get into a little bit more information on that. >> Gotcha. Um and then I'll I'll get you some more
information on the jellyfish because it sounds like we're pretty curious about that one. >> Well, I'm curious because that's our point of failure. I mean, I think All right. Is there a redundancy situation needs to be involved here? >> I don't know. >> Okay. Yeah. So, I'll get you those those items and then go to 12.
>> Yeah. You did a good job. Thank you. Thank you. >> All right. Someone like I'll second that motion. >> I'll second that motion. >> All in favor? >> I do. We have to vote. >> Yeah. Let's do it to be safe. >> Yes. >> Nick, yes. Duncan, >> yes. >> David O, >> yes. Karen,
>> yes. >> Myself is approved. Thank you. See you to the 12. See you then. Thank you. >> 170 Mil Street. Um, anybody here to represent 170 Mil Street? We had to continue to the 8th. You want
to continue it to uh January 26th? >> Yeah. >> Someone like to make that motion? >> I'll I'll make that motion. >> Someone to second the motion. >> I'll second. >> All in favor? >> Nick? Yes, >> Duncan. Yes, David. >> Yes, Karen. >> Yes,
>> myself. So, move is approved to continue the 12626. Next on the agenda is DV Victory Lane Veterans Housing Preliminary Plan and permitting discussion. Is somebody here to represent?
>> Yes. >> Come on up. State your name. >> Kayla. >> Kayyn. >> Kayla. >> Kayla. I'm the director for the veteran advancement program that we have in Gardner. Uh it's located right behind Mount Tusa Community College. Uh we have
been in operation there since November 2019. It's been there though for about 15 years. Formerly owned by Veteran Homestead Incorporated. We took it over before CO. Um we're looking to expand our housing. Um, these are in a
reutilized office building and repurpose it as uh housing, additional studio uh apartments, 22 of them to be exact. And I do have John Peterson here with me from Studio Ta and I have also Peter
Graham from Valley Housing Consultants and Tori um Darnell as well from Scowora Consulting Group who are all working on this project here with me. So, um, happy to answer any questions. And John also has, uh, some schematics and design, uh,
to be able to show you all. >> Well, yeah. And I'll, I'll this is Peter Graham. I'm a development consultant. What um, as much as uh, uh, we're in the preliminary stages. We're in a
application mode with the state for financing. >> Thank you. And um in being as so much as this is a Dover amendment um Dover eligible development, it has a little
different zoning uh path in a in a sense. It's a zoning uh exemption. And so conservation commission is a key element that you don't get any kind of exemption over. And because of our application, we they wanted to make sure
that we had a chance to get in front of you, introduce you to the project and see what was going on. So, it really is kind of more that introductory uh you know, place and then John kind of walk through exactly what's changing at the
site, which is not too much. So, for those who aren't familiar with the the campus, we're actually tucked in just north of Mount Musa College. It's all part of the state land owned by the PAL I believe. Um so on the left here you can kind of see like the little campus map or the the vicinity map of Can I
zoom in? Can I zoom? Uh of the college versus what our campus looks like. So on the campus itself as you enter off of Kelton Street you come down at Bluffin
Way and you enter the Victory Campus. On the Victory campus, there is the building here that we are reconstructing and repurposing. And then below that are 10 townhouse, 20 units uh of all veteran housing. So, a bulk of the 490,000
square ft of campus, we're altering very, very little of it. So the existing building that we're working with is uh it's an existing rehabilitation center that the DAB uses as office and like K said we're converting to studio
apartments for bathrooms and so we have preliminary drawings from from Boulder coincidentally is also our interior project. Um we have early drainage we have early um site plans and
utilities. Most of what we're working with is staying as is. So we're talking I think we're adding maybe 1 th00and square feet worth of impervious area for either stair treads, egress landings, and a small patio
um extension to the building. Yes. at the shade plan right here off of the west of the building. There is a small existing patio. Zoom in a little bit more. That is part of the existing building.
We are extending it south just a bit. Um the existing building does have vestibule but we are moving it. Um the existing building has a unique construction where it's all sit panels. So the structurally insulated panels. It was lead gold when it was established in
20103ish area. We are very much keeping with that mantra and doing more green. I got a call from our earth raider right before this. We're actually um negative this project so far. So we're really pushing
some pretty a really strong green story here. And so even with the thought of the site and the impervious area, we're trying to keep it as minimal as possible. So we have a small small new entry pad and then off to the east side of the building just a couple small
concrete pads. >> And so as you go through the set we have like I said these are all preliminary um civil drawings from from Boulder uh showing the site the utilities the connection soil origin all these we
check all the boxes for as we go forward but we're still very much in that pre-development phase. We've gone through schematic and that's really about it. architecturally we're pushing closer to like halfway through DD, but due to our funding application process, it's a little bit longer of a timeline.
Um, and so if you wanted to see what the building may what the building will look like, we have a also attached a couple of our architectural plans. >> What's the purpose of the building? I'm sorry. >> It's a rehabilitation center. So, when it was built in 2010, it was a rehabilitation. There's a there's a
pool. There's a therapy room. It's um unfortunately Kayla can speak to this. It was >> Yeah. So, it it didn't really quite I think get to what they had envisioned, unfortunately. So, when we had taken over, you know, the pool had been sitting stagnant for I'm not sure how
long. It was a saltwater lap pool crystallized over, you know, it was just not in operation, wasn't maintained, so on so forth. Um, you know, so when we came in, you know, we've really, you know, aside from this building, you know, the whole grounds and everything, we've really been trying to get it back
up to where it should have been. Um, you know, there was certainly a lack of maintenance with the former, you know, organization that was there, uh, before us. So, um, you know, the pool room and then, you know, there's office space. You know, Karin was there earlier today as well as Justin to see it and have
eyes on. Um, and you know, it's it's a large, beautiful building, but use-wise and functionality, it's just not quite there. It's a lot of wasted open space. Um, unfortunately, and really, you know, there's certainly a better, you know, use of of this building, um, and, you
know, converting it to housing where you're, you know, filling that need, um, that's out there as well. >> Um, you're mostly out of our jurisdiction, looks like. Um, but I do recall when this was built, we had a lot of problems
um with the site being during construction. So, I don't remember who it was, but could you look back and make sure they're not getting this one again because we actually went out of business. The contractor that was building it
>> um had a few lawsuits in town in the state and >> yeah, we have a whole team already established with contractors, engineers, vendors, mass timber. Yeah, our our team is pretty well.
>> Well, like you said, we're we're we're largely it's more than a courtesy. It's it's like I said, the dober on the zoning side is one story, but conservation is is another. And it's kind of more than anything that having been you know getting in front of you to
show um maybe we could we could also just talk talk through because we are early days and we will put forward the full thing but when we look at >> so we're really yeah we just have a little bit of footprint changes here here and here and then on the the if you
go back to the campus map >> we are um We're proposing uh right >> hang on purpose building five here. We're going to be altering building five.
>> Yeah. >> Um because right now all of the town houses are two bedrooms and for the DAB's program it really makes sense to try to add in a third bedroom. >> So I can actually show you some sketches. >> Well, Mhm. >> The other thing is is we >> Oh, yeah. We're, you know, looking to
extend the victory lane here just a little bit so the parking is closer to these here. There is some additional parking that would benefit the whole area, especially with the just uh you know with the new units coming online.
But but that's really the extent of it the addition here of a of out for the uh units extension of that and then what we just showed you around the main building. Is the uh sewer and water in the city? >> Yes.
>> Yes. Sewer and water. >> Do you remember this stuff when this is built? >> Yeah. I remember getting shut down. >> Yeah. Twice. >> But you know what I say to that? >> We were the bad guys since we shut it down at the time. >> Have a take the low bit of >> Yeah. We all
>> really know. I mean you guys >> go ahead. >> Oh, yeah. Oh, just I mean like Greg said, a lot of this is out of the 100. There's nothing east of that. So, yeah, I don't >> I'm in support of the project. I mean, I
happened to just drove through there >> um because of the college draining that little pond. >> So, I was kind of I snuck through and drove right down. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> It's been very successful, right?
>> Well, yes, it has. Yeah. Yeah. and and with the with the college the the intent from the beginning has been fantastic and getting veterans in there being able to uh take advantage of classes and the facilities you know in the hospital by
you know on every level. ious. Now, you know, the the the building that is underutilized, you know, it also has what prompted some of this is, you know, a failing roof from kind of deferred maintenance and
things that also went wrong with the general contract. >> I was there >> at least five times at least. >> So, >> well, you won't come back. It was just >> we got calls from the college and people
going to the gym there and >> do you remember all this? >> Yeah. >> Was in the paper. >> Yeah. >> It was bad. >> Um so if you guess if you we appreciate you coming to you know in front of us and presenting. It's outside of our
jurisdiction. >> Um I I can speak to myself. I'm in favor of it. Um I think there was big discussion on that house, that big building in the beginning and um what it was going to be really used for. Um
>> what's what's your schedule? >> Uh our application for funding is Janu or December 19th and then we have at least a three-month break. >> So we won't be back until spring. >> Yeah. >> What else do you need from us? you know, at this point I'm, you know, the the it
being outside of jurisdiction that that was kind of, you know, whether we get that formally in some way, shape or form or we don't really necessarily need it now. You know, it was really more a matter of um making sure that we were
transparent with what's going on. We knew that uh because there is very limited change to the impervious surface. Yeah. >> We just wanted to kind of make sure that the town and all the boards, you know, we'll we'll plan on having meetings with DPW and fire and all of the usual
suspects. Yeah. >> But that's really it. >> Not overly changing the footprint of the building besides some landings. >> That's it. the entry vest field and patio >> the roof leader drains are going to do this basically what they're already doing probably being cleaner
>> yeah right now the roof just drains the daylight there's no better at all so we are going to impose gutters and downspouts and make sure properly >> you all you good quiet why you so quiet >> okay well let us know what you need
>> um if you need something in writing Justin can write something up or sign it you know sign it and send it over that outside of jurisdiction, but if you do need anything from conservation, please, you know, reach out to Justin. And yeah, >> I think that's >> See, we're not as tough as we really
are. >> Yeah. >> We had to wait for the long. >> No, I just that was just a tough area, but you guys are doing the right thing, but we appreciate it. Good luck. >> Good point. >> Certainly. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Thank you.
Would you like these back? >> Um, you can keep the hand of a safe. Yeah. Okay. Why don't you take them back and if you go, you know, if you go to go zoning or somebody like that or whatever, you
know, >> did you want one? >> No, he's got one. >> He wanted one. No, I got it. >> You sure? >> Do you want one for a keepsake or >> so? Yeah, I'll um I'll give the plans a
couple more glances and compare them to a couple of the other mapping just to double check and which is cool. >> Thank you for coming. >> It was easy though. >> You can come anytime. outside our jurisdiction. How about
that? >> Start tomorrow. >> Um, anybody have any other new business? You know, can I is your is your funding locked up? >> No, that's that's kind of the that's
again the whole thing. So, we have um uh it's a competitive process with the state housing uh office. >> What's the estimated cost? I'm just curious. >> Um >> you don't want to answer that. It's not. No, it's not. It's not. Um I mean, it'll
be public, but you know, part of what the the prior developers did at all with uh private um fundraising and they and a big chunk of it was a um Iraq, Afghanistan,
uh re you know, deployment fund back from just after the Gulf Wars. So the fact that the infrastructure is really in good shape, the additional change to bring those units on. >> Yeah. >> Um you know, and then the fact that
we'll be bringing the the existing 20 into kind of a house a state housing subsidized >> uh thing brings our per unit in closer to, you know, 300,000 a unit is is kind of the sound like enough money.
Yeah, that's >> I have deals >> that's amazing. >> I have deals that are over 700,000 a unit, you know. >> Yeah, >> but you know, >> codes and everything else, you know. >> Yep. >> Thank you again. Thank you.
>> And good luck. >> That's awesome. >> All right. Thank you. >> Thank you all. Have a good day. >> Okay. You want to go over your agent report? >> What time is it? I get paid by the hour. >> Um, just want to go over a bad
>> I just want to go over a couple updates. Uh, crew projects. Um, 71 Kendall Pont East. That was the one that we um approved for the sand enhancement. Uh they were able to get
all their erosion controls up just before the snowfall. They sent me pictures before. So things are going to plan with that one. Um, in addition to the Envy Keeper that we have been preparing an application for for the
Keys Road Culver, we are also preparing a quicker submission to the newlyannounced community culvert grant which has the potential to, you know, absorb the decent chunk of the
cost if we're able to if we're able to acquire it. Um that due date is going to be se going to be January 9th. So just yeah about about a month away. But we do have
a lot of the materials that we have collected and compiled for the MVP grant can be revised and repurposed to fit the requirements of the community culbert grant. Um and then we're going to do our
best with that. um other projects. Um the as we just kind of lightly touched upon while we were talking about the DAV project um it's proximity to the Mount Wus Community College project with Duck
Pond Dam. I did get a reach out from the engineer and I was able to send it to you guys within the same period of time that um the contractor did begin excavations. I will be working
with the engineer in order to schedule a uh proper periodic site inspection so we can monitor that phase appropriately. They will be planning on implementing the new color of the I believe it's projected to
be January. So yeah, we'll be looking forward to that. um professional development. Um I found a really interesting
specialization program for a bunch of um for a bunch of move courses on off of Corsera through the University of Chicago, Illinois. Um they um it's wetlands conservation focused,
so it fits our scope of work pretty well. Um, right now I'm in just the first class with the basics of wetlands. And one of my favorite parts of the course so far was learning some of the actual formulas when we're calculating water
budgets in hydrarology. And yeah, so yeah, it's about time. >> I have a question. >> When's the MVP deadline? uh MVP deadline is typically uh April.
>> So I'm asking just in terms of >> trying to figure out what your workload is going to be on all that. >> It's it's going to it's going to be a little bit but it's >> we have grant writers that can assist. >> We we Yeah. Yeah. So, we are working with um with with the city grant writers
on that um >> as the municipal official, I'm the one that has to do the final submission and make sure that that packet is ready to go. So, I'll be working with both Ty Bond and our and our consulting grant
writer make sure that >> they will come. >> No, January 9th is right around the corner. If you're not having a problem, >> yeah, just tell us. Tell us. >> Yeah, I appreciate it. >> I'll come in and beat you on them. I don't give a >> Don't do that.
>> But um >> we just want to make sure you got support because in the past that everyone >> have not in the past. >> Yeah. >> And then they were up against a deadline they couldn't reach. >> Yeah. >> I don't want that.
>> I don't know. I I deeply appreciate that. But um no, right now it seems like we've got um everything seems to be pretty straightforward. So I mean we have a pretty good chance right now and a lot of progress being made.
It's going to be it's going to be good. Um so it anybody else have any new business? No. Someone like to make a motion to end tonight's meeting? make that motion. I like to second that
motion. >> Second. >> Nicholas, >> yes. >> Duncan, >> yes. >> David, >> absolutely. >> Is that a yes? >> Yes. Karen? >> Yes. >> Myself? Similar approved. Thank you.
Have a great night.