yeah thank you everybody let's get started we got a full house tonight let's just keep all the cross talk to a minimum um first I'd like to welcome to the commission Brian Hall he's
um going to be joining us under a 60-day um temporary commission appointment and then it'll be a three-year as as Nick was the same for our last meeting so thank you both of you um just remember if you're going to be taking any videos or pictures during the meeting to let me
know in advance i appreciate that um there is a section now on our agenda we started adding for public comment on agenda items to two-minute time limit i'll go first we did receive an email from Judy Tyinger i'm just going to read
it verbatim good afternoon there's not anything I am sure can be done at this point to protect what has been going on to the area behind my house at 323 Park Street i've been dealing with the issues with National Grid since the project started back in 2014 if you look into the minutes of April 2015 they broke
they broke the ledge during construction had disrupted the natural stream that flows through the area where the facility is located on Park Street there's been nothing but empty provinces from the commission national grid in the city in regard to this project and what the abutas have had to deal with my current concern is the covert which is
no longer clear due to bike the bike trail that is behind my home it is not maintained by any means and with the dumping of trees and other debris back there how will this be cleaned up how is this affecting the water flow in the swamp to the culvert my second concern
is that all the ledge back there where they do want to remove and put in new towers how is this going to be handled is there anything going to any is there any blasting constant hammer and like in the past it shook our homes what is going to happen to the
natural springs that run through the air between Crystal Lake and Pearly Brook and I want to know how they are going to get the kind of heavy equipment back there they need for this project we have young eagles flying in and out of the wood line back there two
of them and two adults as well as hawks and they're telling me they will come back it is just not something I believe as they took the nest from the red trailhawk and they have yet to return i'm not sure if anyone's even paying attention anymore to all that has been promised and to what we are currently
dealing with the water content in my yard is never ending now i have a large amount of moss as grass it's getting harder to grow there is all there is an area that is starting to sink and I have noticed to my in my neighbor's yard an
area starting to sink as well never mind the car full of kids that drove down the path the other day and almost drove into my team fence what are the consequences for dismantling of what is supposed to be preserved back there there is a lot of
natural water have you seen the salamanders they're back there the deer they're back there just not sure who even cares about that anymore definitely not what I was imagining 20 years after buying my home please take the time to meet with me as I have I was not given
the chance to address the grid at the last public meeting when I tried to talk to you all about my concerns I was told the meeting was closed and to send an email uh to be read thank you for your time judy Tyinger at 323 Park Street i'll send this for records
too um anything else anybody else wish to speak under the public uh comment you have two minute timeline nobody's willing to speak no one has anything to speak about uh Mr chairman yes Russo thank you uh
couple things relative to an agenda item coming up which is a sledge landfill enforcement order i've been at every single meeting since that has occurred um earlier of this year and times before that uh submitted numerous documentation uh I'm interested in
finding out you know some of the things that the happened recently first of all uh is there a report from Mass D uh on the incident that happened on March 6th i understand they were on site on the 10th they conducted a meeting uh with
somebody from the city i don't know who that was i understand from this last meeting the conservation agent was not uh looped in on that meeting which concerns me because the conservation agent notified mass D on the 6th of
March second thing uh concern about maintenance records and the pooling uh the pooling of liquid of some sort on top of the landfill which was discussed that did not appear in the first uh letter that came from D back in
September i read that thing a couple of times uh talked about a plume of old sedimentation uh so who met with Tom Raula and Julie Schmidt on that day and why wasn't this pool mentioned uh it
seems to be the source of the problem uh so those are my main concerns uh and I'm also interested in seeing the amended enforcement order that you uh as a commission uh approved last week um I'm very concerned as a property of butter
uh for uh what is happening out there it's been happening for several years so uh you know I'm confident we'll be able to address those things tonight and and uh over the foreseeable future here because I don't think this thing is uh is close to being figured out unless we
have answers to every single question so thank you for the time the chairman thank you anybody else wish to speak mr mr chairman all the male resident only comment I would like to make that I
confer and I support what Mr russo just said thank you anybody else no thank you uh keep going down the agenda busy night tonight uh meeting minutes none at this time request for certificate compliance
none at this time next on the agenda is the enforcement order for the sludge landfill there's somebody here to uh discuss the sledge landfill state your name for the record please DPW director thanks this is Rob Oliver city engineer thank you
just to clarify as far as the meeting with D and that was set up through Violia in the city I'm sorry Violia and D i believe it was uh Dan who from the central mass reached out to Violia george I'm sorry joe at set that up as a
site meeting i myself was present rob was present and then um Tom was from DP was present what was the outcome of the meeting did you hear any reports yet dan not received any report just you know conversations about um tightening up the
maintenance and um coming up with like a standard procedure um updating the operation manual things like that but nothing's formal come from DP to add to what Mr arnold just said when we were out there Tom Rebula did have a couple of recommendations to take
immediately um which were done shortly thereafter which was erosion control barrier around that plume of sediment um so that's new that got installed and then there was an area on a slope where sand stock piled for the operation on the landfill went down the slope um
during that meeting that got cleaned up and then the uh his department went back with um slope netting um to stabilize it um when it had been cleaned up so where was the the the netting we were there that night literally right from the
outlet it was rip wrap above uh not rip wrap was laid down the Okay i didn't see that yeah it was not done it was probably done a week after DP was there so it was after you had So we've been under enforcement order since
November and we haven't heard anything from you guys we asked you know conservable amount of information didn't receive any is there anything you have to give us today maintenance records process uh check with the OA as far as maintenance records it's a bound um book
booklet um most of it I haven't looked at it uh most of it is um we the on manual a while ago i don't have it yet so we can at least kind of refer to it the 2016 and manual uh that's the other
one we have i don't know i believe I'll have to double check but I sent that to him do you have it have it with me right now did you Did you get it um it could have been in the original email but a look
so I guess I'm going to open it up to the commission to you know kind of fire away some questions we just want to know what we're doing out there how did it happen with the pond up top maintenance who does it how often that kind of I know some of you
can't speak to but some of you can i'll go back to the one that happened in October uh we took immediate action on that we cleaned uh with hand tools went out removed the sediment from the wetlands we re um positioned silk fence at the outlet we cleaned out the swale
we removed the stone dam we cleaned um put in fresh stone dams we actually at the inlet that goes into the wetlands on the inlet side we put in a stone kind of like a almost another containment area in the
event something were to go to the inlet um that was the first enforcement uh as far as this last storm goes uh it was a combination of errors and part of it is maintenance on the order i will say that how come they're not here
tonight the question would be I mean I just assumed that they would be here when we had an enforcement order against them i'm looking for pictures tonight um as far as the event that took place a couple weeks ago I think it was a combination of errors you know of
circumstances we had snow we had frozen ground we had 1.7 in of rain we had snow melt but there was also some maintenance things that could have been done from beyond it um up at the top of the sludge landfill what you are calling a burm or
a dam is actually that's our stock pile for mixing when we bring the sledge up we immediately mix it that sand is hauled up from our gravel bank we store it up there so it's a pile on top on top um the the the pond you're talking about
is where they're digging into it which we talked to them as far as when they're digging into it they dug down into the material causing a low point with the mel snow melt frozen ground it caused it caused a dam what we've spoke to them since then is we found that they were
pushing with the es uh front and loader at the top of the mountain they were pushing and it was the material started to build up over the top of the existing slope causing kind of a shell with the pond behind it it let go and that's what that erosion that went down the front
side there was also I think two other small sections on the on the north side I believe it would be that caused the erosion uh we have since gone up there with our excavator we've pulled it back off the side so it's not longer we spoke to them as far as operating and making sure that they don't um you know
continue to push that as far and also trying to make it a little more level so it's not a pool that's building up against the material well I just have a question related to that i mean if you look at even like Google Earth these ponds seem
to form frequently so if something is not being done properly it it's excavation yeah so I mean so part of like fixing the problem that was never really done in my opinion because it happened
again it happened in a worse way and yes I know there's snow but there's snow every year so something is not being done properly if the if the bank wasn't there the water would have run from the side of the slope directly into the swale into the wetland is that best practice to do what they're doing and
have a pile of sand up there that would create a pond that could potentially be released and breached is that best practice for that situation i believe so instead of running down the slope into the wetland no I mean storing the the sand or
whatever you use up there to mix it that you know what I'm talking about like if we didn't store it on top of the hill we'd have to store it at the bottom and truck it up okay but that's why I'm asking you you'd still have runoff now from the if it rain now it's just running off the side of the of the
sledge landfall so what is when when there is a big rain event like that what is the process typically we asked the guy on site I fig what should have been done we should have checked the swailes that were frozen with ice that's part of the problem is all the swailes were frozen
with ice um ground frozen we should have checked the soils and had them removed number one uh and we should have also checked the top of the sledge land make sure that the material wasn't hanging out on the top so that it leeched and flowed down into the swell frozen swell
the the largest problem in that last event was because of the all the conditions combined um the swailes in two or three areas breached they they overtopped the swale and it was just because of the conditions um and what happened the sediment release that you
saw at the discharge was basically the water running down the gravel driveway that goes around the sludge landfill was flowing the swailes couldn't do their job because the water breached in a few places so it ran the driveways are pitched back in towards the landfill so
they basically ran and all that sediment could carry down to the discharge point and then out um yeah I saw that when I I think I mentioned it when you guys were there they plowed into the swale instead of plowing out towards the fence i mean anybody can walk out there and see that so so Viol has been instructed that
they're going to plow differently when they clean up around the land because obviously stone so um they've been instructed to handle the stockpile of sand differently at the top of the landfill to avoid the pooling that you saw and the pooling that you know with those heavy rains um going over the top
ordinarily the sludge landfill has some infiltration capacity so and it's designed to be that way because the liner collects it all it gets pumped out by the Luch pump system um because of the conditions we had frozen ground we had snow melt we had rain c can you guys
just either not take it outside thank you sorry Rob and I know that can happen that's common we live in England that happens all the time it was just a a whole series of unfortunate things that uh lined up caused you know the runoff to exit the swale had that runoff stayed in the swale we probably wouldn't be
looking at this problem um strictly because uh when enforcement order first came up we did the work the corrective work um we had added check uh rip wrap check dams to the swale the biggest one that collects the most runoff um and
those were doing their jobs they've been cleaned out a few times since um they've since been cleaned out again the stone was replaced so we have been maintaining them it was just a series of kind of everything lined up to go wrong and it did um so we've already taken actions to
prevent that again the plowing caused an issue so that's easily can be fixed um but that's the biggest problem that happened in this last event and that's what led to the sediment discharge dan I don't I don't see that you gave us
that book i see some inspections and some well tests from July but I maybe it was too big as an attachment i'll get you have sent me a bunch i just don't see that one can I ask a question go ahead so I'm
curious you know where that came over the side and then down is that for lack of a better term basin there is that adequate or should that be enlarged can't go too deep because there's a liner there i'm just trying to I mean so we've had this is like the third event i
think it's kind of led into some discharge there so I'm just trying to I mean I believe you when you say it's been corrected but like it keeps happening and I'm assuming it will probably again so how do we prevent more from going back into that stream the problem we have is it's a
1985 design and storm water system it's a it's a swale and a pipe going open i mean so is there anything else we could do to make it better i mean we we could add additional check dams um I I think um maintenance is key too um I I think
additional maintenance could be done um we've relied on Violia to do it um and I think we need to our our sewer water department guys our sew sewer department guys have gone up with our equipment and done when when these
things happen um but I think in the future we could do more so I think maintenance is probably the biggest thing what what do you guys do what did they do for maintenance between the October breach and the breach we had a couple weeks ago what have they done
clean up the swale added removed the old check dams added new check dams um redid the silk fence that was on the on the outlet side um had removed all the sediment from that in the wetland so
who in who in the city is supposed to be out there making sure and I don't know I don't know what the contract or whatever who in the city is supposed to make sure that Viola is doing what i oversee their contract i understand you're busy i mean I see what you do i see what you both do
but there I mean how are we going to hold the Viola accountable D and you can't speak about it say how we're going to how we're going to stop this or help this from happening again given it's literally a swale on a on a mountain with a discharge pipe to the
wells i mean we can sit here and we can maintain the swale um as best we can we can you know talk to them as far as not having the material over the side of the of the of the slope which we've done uh and just tighten up our I guess our
inspection my inspection of it diol is a large international company they're big on safety they're big on the environment this the last thing they want to happen so all we have to do and we already have we've already spoken to our project manager and his supervisor who manages multiple projects in in the
state um they're aware of it they're looking to their experts to help advise us on our own end plan what could we be do differently you know what could we add what could we do differently with it um to make sure this doesn't happen so yeah it's oversight definitely I
think on the city's part but they're also very receptive to making things right because they don't want this to happen it goes it's a blemish on their record as well so they're committed as well uh in their contract there must be something that we could do right i mean
there's got to be some I mean I don't know how many years old the contract is but wouldn't there be something in their contract if they have so many breaches or if they're not maintaining it per our contract there's some stipulations some guidelines some way to protect the city from this happening again does anybody When's the last time anybody saw the
contract probably before our time right it was just renewed in 2018 i know it well but well I don't the people that are doing it they should have been here tonight i didn't ask them to come cuz Well they
should have been here i mean you know it's nice that you know you got a lot on your plate we all have a lot in that place but it's nice that you know to get somebody here that that's what they do you know that they know they don't worry about plowing the streets and and this that and the other
thing you know I think they should have been here tonight maybe they you know he didn't ask him they should have come anyways he knew it was a problem i could tell you that when we were there that night the guy was taking it harder on himself than than Oh yeah go ahead i think he does the best he can do with
what he's got up there for a storm and a a hill a mountain so piggy backing on what um what Duncan was just talking about i'm a new member so maybe this is already done but it seems that um you know it's really important for communication to be open
between your departments the us so I think it would be really helpful um like that last meeting you had where there I'm sure there's emails that were exchanged and it'd be helpful if you if you guys looked and saw that okay Justin's name is not on there so CC
him so he can communicate with us cuz it um great for us to actually hear this from them on site visit yeah that meeting was set up by Violia with the wastewater park bureau at D i believe that they invited um Tom Dula
the wetlands division personnel to tag along why he didn't let Justin know no idea because I literally got a phone call at 10:00 saying "Hey we're meeting out here at an hour." So it wasn't like there's no email exchange okay but yeah but yeah next time just get make me
aware that that call Justin so we can hear it all directly from them thank you and we're we're still waiting from and I know Justin's waiting as well um to get an update from the EP on on that event the day he did his inspection i mean he walked the entire land until
while he was there so um he should have good notes and again he made a couple couple of recommendations while we're out there which we we took care of fairly shortly so um we're waiting to see if they have more and again we'll do those as well
go ahead so I I just want to I'm not trying to belabor the point but you make it sound like well we we have this really outdated storm water system there's not much we can do but so I'm I'm still want to go back to see so you did mention maybe new check dams what
else could be done if this is such a bad outdated storm water system I mean well that makes it sound like it's just going to keep happening so what could we do yeah it's a functional system i mean when it works it works it's I I think again um this the we can do checkins for
sediment removal um I mean the sediment removal isn't I think with some better better management at the top of the landfill which we've already addressed with the um because the sediment is basically the sand again this last sediment release was due to the water running down that gravel driveway had
those swailes functioned like they do normally I don't think we would have had that we have big rain events and and it's not typically a Um so it was an unfortunate series of events that led up to it not to say that more can't be done still and Dan had
said we can't expand say you know the the there's a a small basin at that discharge on the inlet side of it and but there's a liner to the landfill so we can't excavate because the liner is right there so it's it's difficult to expand upon what's already there for
that system solely because of the liner um if we you know dig and damage that liner we have much bigger problems so we don't want to obviously do that are these all outfall 002 is this the same location i don't know the number of my
head yeah i'm just wondering if something could be done across the road there i mean we can certainly look cuz you're in the wetland I know we had discussed that on the elit side and that's the problem it's on the elit it's up against the
wetlands if mine or others I catch it all on the other side inside the landfill right and we can certainly look um improving um you know where there's more checks getting the swailes in a better condition if they filled in and
that's something typically will do they they the dozer that they use on the landfill they'll track um and and blade the the swelles to clean them up but um we'll I mean we can certainly look at them and make sure you know they're to the standard they're supposed to be i
mean they are pushing 401 to 40 years old um we just need to come up with something we need to get an engineer that to work with you Rob to figure out how can we do this because I believe it is all al fall 002 and that and if that's the case it started at 2020 22 24
now another one of 25 i I just it comes to mind though fall 2 i'm trying to to look for it but yeah I mean we can c certainly try and seek out some other recommendations or Could you do something on the along the
road on the fence side of the road and make it like linear inside yeah yeah yeah i don't know that we have the original room well it's because of poor maintenance out there so I mean how many feet of the roadway do you need 10 feet to get around it or what's the standard 10 with
the I mean the road's almost right up against the fence right on the inside you have the swale and then the toe of the slope there's not a lot I don't believe but if I'm saying if you make it this way along the fence even if it's a couple feet and run it out would it Rob
i mean in your estimation would it do anything no I think the the road is enough of a break um I mean outside of this event where water get out of the swale typically it's contained in the soil um I I think if if I'm going to expend any energy out there it's on the
swailes um to make sure I mean we go back to the old plans um see what the design on the sws was make sure they have the right cross-sectional area um and do that and again we can add some more check dams you know buy more rip wrap and and and build those that
certainly it does two things it slows the velocity of the soils down and it provides some sediment removal um they have been working the guys have cleaned them out a few times so they they are you know hopefully that's better than it used to be outside of this last event um
I mean they were working um if you stood out there you could watch the water literally coming down the road back into the swale at the discharge yeah and then right out can we put some swailes and some water bars in the road and have them pitch back towards the drain that's around the whole tires landfill or the
sludge cuz right now it literally like you just said it runs from almost where you drive in down that's the low point yeah but that again that was an unusual event that Well it's pitched the opposite way you're asking to pitch the entire road towards the land no just
just a couple swails along the road back into that area so water bar yeah water bar pitching towards that is right i mean when I was there the water's literally running down the road that's a low point across the road i mean you're plowing down in
the winter i mean I used to build skiers for live and plowed it and you plow right over them yeah it's something it's something yeah again I don't think cuz he's plowing into it you can see the burn yeah that that was the first thing I saw the smoke
plume yeah it's the first thing I said and um can we try a couple in that area just above up higher so we can drain it down into this cover trying to think of other ways because we're going to keep getting rain it's not going away and we're going to get
cold again one more time i'm sure i don't think we'll see the water running down the roadway again if we address the swells um I think we also even considered what if we added um you know millings we have a lot of asphalt millings we could firm up that gravel
rideway um make it a little bit more stable that way even and that if water did happen to run out to it at least now it's probably not going to erode it or at least not cause the sediment discharge we had um and given all the water that did get out on that driveway
in that event it was a mucked up mess um so I mean that's something we talked about i don't talk about that some more anybody else i can have any questions go ahead just a real quick um any results on the testing of the outflow that day
joe has not received results yet from his lab he's Joe was away for about 10 days so okay he just literally got back today yeah but wouldn't somebody else give them to us i get I get my results i think it was 4 days from my testing i don't know how Joe and so I would just
say it was not done he was asked that question today the results who what testing company do they use do you guys know i don't know i mean I just think in my mind when I go to I stop for vacation the my jobs don't
start they just keep going and someone takes over he also did tell us he had about 200 more emails that he had to get through it could possibly be sitting in his email okay well I guess what I would say is I'd like to see Viola in here with the
ONI manuals and kind of come up with their plan and hopefully by then we get D's comments back and we can kind of go over them as a group and address them okay fair everybody fair i'll make that motion yes definitely all right let's uh someone like to make a motion to
continue to the um what is it the 14th i'll make that motion someone to second that motion to the continuence of the four to the 14th second all in favor all right thank you and we're close we're close we're closed just keep fine all right we'll take care
of it i know what you're going to say yeah yeah all right next is 36 Nicole Terrace is somebody here to represent how you doing come on up state your name for the record [Music] what's your name my name is
State your name on there on the Zoom as well oh three thank you so I guess you started moving some wood i already start to remove the blocks and
shred the branch that's what they recommend before I start to plant the trees do you know where the wood the wetlands boundary is on your property actually I don't know but uh my she put some flats
but I don't know exact i already hired Chris to doing that because I can't do this by hand because it can be so big logs but the problem is you went out there and started doing work and made it worse do you understand
is that that's your is that who you hired to help you fix this can you kind of just talk about what the plan is and maybe Do you hear us who's doing the work out there on site right now
chris sorry go ahead are that is that in place it's not in place right now fire department is installing it on the floor yeah they're installing that the containment in the on the 4th right
april 4th snm's coming out correct yeah it's it's going to be the mulch uh socks with a twoft uh silk fencer about 600 ft away yeah we want straw and we want to dug in 6 in the bottom of the
sill fence just so they usually know they know go ahead David i was just um but it looks like wood chips were kind of launched into the wet land right yeah so we started chipping over there when Justin was there um I was just trying to make it so we could get to the brush a
little bit better um so I didn't even know about the real flags until I seen them like they were like when I got there they were already pretty much on the ground so I didn't know the representation of the blue flags at first until Justin had talked to me but I was I was pretty much just past the
flags when he got there when I was doing the work and um I was never told that we couldn't bring equipment in i was just told to get the logs out of there and you know I know you know crane's not going to be able to reach the whole acre and a half or whatever the project is um
safely so I had that 18,000lb machine come in and then you know to make light work of it and there was one spot that was soft in the whole project so far the problem is you did damage in the wetlands already right and then Justin explained that when he came and you know
we stopped immediately as soon as Justin asked us to stop we stopped immediately i had the machines picked up everything was tooken off site we started making plans to buy the s fence the socks we had already made all that to get it in there to correct the issue
okay and then now we're at muting marian how do you recommend that all the all the wood chips be removed has anybody shared pictures of you what it looks like today have any Has anyone shared pictures of what it looks like today with
you all right well I think we should stop and and and don't do anything there until the the silk fence is in place and and Marian makes a decision how you're going to do it and comes before the commission and makes that plan go ahead Chris
are you qualified to do this kind of work so I I got insurance on my myself for anything I do so I'm covered up to $2 million we're not talking about talking about insuranceances we're talking about with within so I'm qualified I'm qualified to do the
removal of the logs which I was asked to do just to chip the brush and remove all the logs i didn't really know anything about the wetlands and I knew it was a wetland issue but I thought that if we corrected it was going to be good and I was just going on with Azif he told me
that when the snow melted we could start so as soon as the snow melted I gave it like an extra week and then I restarted the project i mean it really would have been better if you did it while the snow was there right who who gave the
the Who gave you a commission the last time I talked with Maria and Justin they told me "Who's Maria?" I have to remove all the SL that didn't happen all right let's continue this to April 14th we're going to wait for Marian to give us some more
direction oh I'm sorry one more my concern is that this is going from kind of from bad to worse this original remediation plan may not be adequate until we see how much was actually damaged i agree so okay so that's all
I'm saying no work when are you going to be back nothing nothing we You start working we're going to start assessing fines i ordered stuff okay immediately we stop maryanne when are you going to be back here so the erosion control is going to go in
on 44 right yes april go ahead just submit what you're going to put in there before you do it go ahead jump in whoever else say no when you start putting your erosion controls in you make sure Justin
is been advised yes yeah yeah so like the SNM department is coming to install it personally themselves on the 4th it's already scheduled everything's already paid for it they are 100% scheduled for the fourth okay maryanne could you make it for the 14th to be in person here
with us thank you would someone like to make a motion to continue 38 Nicole Terrace till April 14th i will make that motion someone like to second that motion second all in favor i thank you okay thank you we're all set you're all set
okay hold on next Maryanne next one 282 Brookside Drive is somebody here for 282 yes so tell me what happened with the wood that you dragged out of the woods and put free wood where' the wood come from
it's from the area I uh cut the tree do you know where your property boundary is yet no did you look for and try to find it anywhere we try to go to the city hall with Justin but I cannot afford what they said it's a free record you
have it you just go to the city clerk and ask her you go online and Google it comes right up so right now you're saying you took wood from someone else's property and you dragged it out and gave it away like I almost I think the one like who
gave you permission to do that like Marian she I hire her and then she talked to someone of the convers commission conversation chris are you involved like to I can start cut the wood and
move it away but I don't know that if I put it like to the people to take it marian did you give her permission to to make move them logs out of there who you working with okay all right anybody else in the commission
have anything for 282 just that we don't know the extent of the damage i know did do you do you understand that you're not to do any more work yeah one month okay justin did you try to get his property his map his plot plan we did go
to the assessor's office and we did pull plot plan that was on their record yes and are there boundary markers shown on there like that are in the ground that's not that old out there like you know what I'm saying like post
Do you remember it probably oh when I when I went out I I didn't see any um clear indicators there when was your house built when 2006 that's close i mean I'm sure they're there somewhere yeah no they should be
but again do nothing don't touch anything don't move anything you need to find out where those battery markers are if you can find them so then when your surveyor is out there he kind of knows where he's going and stay off that property it's probably Go ahead Maryanne
okay so we're going to do the same thing we're going to continue this to the 14 do not touch anything if it's not in your yard where you exactly know it's your yard don't go over there at all it's not worth it you don't even know your boundary lines are okay okay someone like to make a motion to
continue to the April 14th meeting i'll make that motion someone like to second second all in favor thank you thank you thank you thank you all right is anybody here from 125 Snake Pond
Road no i'm going to read it and then we'll continue it the Gardener Conservation Commission will a joint public hearing under MGL chapter 131 section 40 of the Wetlands Protection Act the city of Gardener Wetlands Protection Ordinance on on the request for termination of applicability filed
by James Plesia the project located at 125 Snake Pond Rose Gardener map H12514 for the proposed tree removal and is set to occur within the buffer zone of a boarding vegetated wetland nobody's here for 125 Snake Pond
Road nobody all right i'm going to continue this to the 14th if they don't show on the 14th we're removing it from the agenda and not to start over someone like to make a motion to continue to the 14th i'll make that motion someone like to second second all
in favor i thank you next is a notice of intent by um for zero Betty Spring Road is anybody here to represent i'm going to read it then we're going to continue it the Gardener Conservation Committee Commission will hold a joint public hearing under MGL chapter 131
section 40 in the Wetlands Protection Act and City of Gardener Wetlands Protection Ordinance at a notice of intent file filed by Godard Consulting LLC on behalf of Wine Crest Properties LLC for the proposed construction of a single family home driveway and associated utilities this project is
located off the Betty Spring Road Gardener Mass uh R272524 and a portion of the work is set to occur within the buffer zone of a boarding vegetated wetland this is D160 0675 some like to make a motion to continue
it to the 14th yes I'll make that motion someone to second that motion second all in favor i next on the agenda is New England Power A1 B2 transmission line somebody here to represent present with BSC group i'm just going to
read this and you can kind of give us an update the gardener conservation commission will hold a joint public hearing under NPL chapter 131 section 40 the wildlands protection act the city of gardener wlands protection ordinance on the notice of 10 filed by DSC group on behalf of power company for a proposed
large scale refurbishment project to be conducted on an A1D2 transmission line portions of the proposed work are set to occur near several areas of jurisdiction along existing utility right away both within and outside of gardener city
limits this is D16077 good evening um so the last time we met we gave an overview of the project um and we had just received comments from um D and the issuance of our file number um so an update there um one of the
comments pertain to um signatures if uh easements are not in hand for the use of offright ofway access i've concern I've you know confirmed um with the reps on the project that they we do have um easements for the offright ofway access
routes um thus the need for uh signatures um for the filing isn't isn't necessary um they also Tom was the reviewer he had a comment about um buffer zone not being shown on Green
Street um we reviewed that area i'm I'm not there's nothing on the mass layer and we didn't delineate anything either um we've you know contacted him to get some clarification on what he was seeing there um but we're not seeing anything
um and then the other thing that I had notified the commission about is that um D is reviewing the 401 we haven't received technical comments from them we still need to go out and collect the information to update the wet wetland
replication plan so that's still in progress um but I did want to come and and meet with the commission and I I know last week it was kind of digesting the project and seeing you know what additional comments questions that you might have at this at this time and I kind of think we should wait for those
comments to come back and forth from D before we keep on the 401 okay do you think that'll be done by the 14th and do you want to give it a little bit more time let's give it a little bit more time because I do anticipate we'll also have an updated wetland plan for the
replication area okay and then that way we can Oh do you think at some point before you start and before we vote is there some areas that we can have a site visit and Absolutely maybe we could isolate a
couple areas that we want to see yeah I know we've done it over the years and Greg will come and bring us to certain areas and we'll kind of walk it um the let's try to start deciding what locations and with this weather could be kind of tough so that might be a little bit but um anybody have any comments or
questions no you want to make a motion to go i'll make that motion that we continue to the 28th and so to second that motion second all in favor thank you and she's got a list of sites if you want to take a look at the Thank you
thank you thank you uh the next is uh D160 0673 at Britney Keys Conservation Area somebody to represent uh yes but also Paul is here there he is okay let me
just uh the gardener conservation commission will join public hearing under jail chapter 131 section 40 in the wetlands protection act of city garden and wetlands protection ordinance on a request for the amendment of an order of conditions filed by BSC group incorporated on behalf of North County
Land Trust 4 325 Lindell AB Leister it's D16073 proposed gravel pit stabilization product on the Eeneer Keys uh conservation area it's map 827 uh- 0 105
hi Paul Martin with BSC Group um when we received the order of conditions I reviewed it and found that there were um some actual mistakes like a reference to a variance request and we had requested a variance and then there were
some conditions that were contrary to what we talked about in the two hearings in terms of what were the plans for the project site like there was a condition that all disturbed soil areas be seated and mulched and we explained that the
intent is for the native grasses that are there to have 2 years to become established and then we would do any kind of remedial seating that needed to be done but the intent is not to mulch that area it's very sandy soils there's not going to be a lot of runoff
infiltrates very well so anyway so if you've read this you'll see that there's 15 different items that I I brought up in the uh amendment request i went over them with Justin and we've talked about this and pretty sure he's all on board
with everything that was in the and he mentioned last week that he's already got I think the revised or amended OC prepared i mean I understand fixing the clerical errors but I've never ever had to go back and amend somebody's order of
conditions for things that they didn't want in there i don't know i'm definitely not for at all i'm I mean I think we could do a like a disclaimer page that describes some of those items that don't apply but as as far and I
think that might be getting where you want to be so it's it's documented better but going back and amending the order of conditions I think I've been advised not to but I I I can put it all as a disclaimer well I mean it's in the regulations that you can file for yeah but I'm not going to
open up that that's just going to that's going to be a problem can I ask a question we haven't filed it with the registry yet oh well that's a whole other situation go ahead north County Land Trust i'm well um so my question is so the order of conditions are
conditions we have to comply with when we try to close our permit if there are items in there that do not comply with the plans we discussed and had approved how would we go about closing that order of conditions well if they wouldn't apply then we we note that they didn't apply that's why I'm saying if they'll
if it's listed in the Yeah like I mean if there's an airport or something obviously there's no airport there so that wouldn't apply um but that's why I'm saying the disclaimer page would Okay and we won't run into problems to close i mean I'd be happy if you guys close it out i know you will yeah
absolutely but these these guys are very good at it over the years most people don't so I just it's on record we're committed to it no I understand um chairman go ahead you know I've been on this commission over 40 years and we
have never ever changed them for anybody y I'll be I dead set against it now well you can jump up and down streaming all of them i'm going to vote no on there are clerical errors he he
already Justin he made it was his problem and he fixed it go ahead well I just I I think this disclaimer page would satisfy both parts in my opinion because it makes sense what they're asking it makes sense
that we don't want things in don't really apply so I think a disclaimer is the way to go yeah i mean that's why it's a standard it's a standard we always have used um but this disclaimer can be almost what you have in your hand and how does that get filed with the
registry be another attachment to the to the filing right i think so or we could attach it to the the letter that also requires that signature as well so maybe we could just take a second and go through some of the
things that you would disclaim so like there's a condition in there that we do wetland replication if needed right i don't think it says that what does it say do you have it let me have it condition i think we're both trying to get to the
same thing and and I'm not adverse to the disclaimer as long as it captures the 15 items that are in here and some and some of them can be but you're just your your rebuttal to these are longer than the whole page
of conditions so I just want to make sure let me have that your order of positions is like 13 pages i'm saying but you're I got one page here i'm not debating that i'm going to work with you on it but I'm not going to go back here and one which one are you talking
about what I remember well the one about wetland replication you find it in here that was my search in condition 46 through
51 talking about wetland replication this isn't the pass that you pass that back you say 46 yeah 46 through 51 so on that disclaimer we'll say that that has been removed the wetland replication sure and like you know my
item 9 conditions 42 and 43 talk about maintaining a storm water management system there is no storm water management system on site and 24 25 talk about reveation and we're not actively reveating until we've gotten past 2
years not immediately after grading is completed so if you think you can write disclaimer that both removes the you know um administrative items as well as
disclaim some of these items that aren't part of the project but were conditioned then I think that would work we'll do that y there anyone else in particular on this that you want to talk about nope i pretty spelled out
now the clerical errors where are they well my item one besides what sorry the the note regarding variant um the wildland protection act form um
page two of the section B check boxes interest under the wildland protection act okay there is no stream or pond on the site but it was checked that there was uh there's a statement that the work is within the 100 foot buffer zone of BBW no it's not buffers on IBW
all right let's do this wait hold on no we need to fix all these and get the disclaimer page and then we'll um and if you just want to come back on the 14th we'll go over it you can zoom in if you want and then we'll sign the the disclaimer i'm only five minutes
away so I'll come back okay all right and we'll work on I have a question go ahead justin did you did you adjust those errors i did adjust the clerical areas for Yeah they they are adjusted we can And I just have a question about the
timeline so if we're revisiting this on the 14th um I have a contractor you know ready to start work as soon as we have this straightened out so if if we're adjusting it on the 14th am I ready to go the 15th or does it have to go to D
and then have a waiting period like what is that time is it 14 days right yeah the 10day appeal period okay so that puts us to pretty much May is there is there a way to override that i wonder if the appeal period applies if
the order has been issued and it's been more than 10 days certainly i mean isn't that our discretion at some point on this it's in our ordinance to have that discussion yeah yeah so I think the appeal period is probably passed for the for the
original order to be official yes yes so okay so that negates that correct anybody agreeing here no why i I don't agree with it okay we haven't brought up vote yet but we're going to vote to continue it to the 14th but now she's asking about No no she's
just asking about timeline and what it does that's But after we after we vote on it as well right now we're going to vote 10 10day period right we're going to vote to continue to the 14th right and we're going to confirm what that 10day waiting period is you can get a hold of i I I can get more clarification
on that he's gonna get clarification on the 10 all right all right okay everybody good anybody on the commission have any questions we need to fix it it is mistakes and we'll do the disclaimer would someone like to make a motion to continue to the 14th of April i'll make
a motion someone like to second second all in favor i thank you we'll see you in a couple weeks uh next on the agenda is uh Old Duck Pond Dam somebody here to represent yes come on up i'll just read it while
you're getting set up the Garden Conservation Commission will hold a joint public hearing under MGL chapter 131 section 40 the wetlands protection act the city of Gardener wetlands protection ordinance under those intent followed by Haley and Aldridge incorporate on behalf of
Machusa Community College Commonwealth of Massachusetts for the proposed engineered breach of the old duck pond dam and ecological restoration limited project project is located at 444 Green Street thank you um do you have a minute for an
8m minute presentation that too long go for it try to read the room and run through it we get paid by the hours excellent if it gets boring stop me ask questions whatever my name is Dennis Bell thank you for having me i'm I'm
with company called Haley and Aldrich and here representing Mount Washington Community College they have a a dam and a pond on their campus and off we go old Duck Pond Dam this is a proposed breach project pretty interesting dam
uh old Duck Pond Dam is here on the campus of Mount Wusa Community College crystal Lake on the left there it's a small body of water and then I'm always interested in where these things come from so go back to the the maps here in 1889 it wasn't there so you flash
through these things in 27 it wasn't there in 1943 it was not there all of a sudden in 1946 the pond is there so why did somebody put it there well who knows the um area around it is agricultural so
presumably some farmer you know had some um needed a source of water and took a bunch of dirt locally and made a dam okay so 1946 it's there then in 1963 Mount Wus Community College was built
here and then now it's on the campus um I went out to uh visit the the dam in response to a dam safety order by the Massachusetts Office of Dam Safety in 19 in 2023 and the the dam is in poor
condition there there's lots of problems significant problems with the dam and so I wrote that report submitted it to the Office of Dam Safety and what did they do they issued a six orders to the owner of the dam the dam is uh structurally
deficient in poor condition and there's six dam safety orders uh some of them are administrative which we've taken care of but there are three still three that are a significant uh hazard okay so the dam is under dam safety orders and
the dams need to be brought up into compliance with the dam safety regulations or removed from the dam safety regulations which in terms of breach so I worked with the college uh last year or so in what to do with it we've done an alternative analysis we
submitted an appendex with the notice of intent of what to do we've landed on this proposal here to actually do a dam a controlled dam breach and take it out of the Massachusetts offam safety
regulations so just a synopsis of the project step one resource areas is why we here tonight and so we've gone out and done all the uh weapon flagging we have our 30 foot no disturb 60 ft no build 100t buffer zone all around it we
also have a riverfront um up at the top this is uh looking north here so it flows from south to north the blue is the existing pond about 5 acres the brown is the existing dam and then the dam is also leaking quite a bit right
now which is a problem it has no functioning outlet which is not a problem all sorts of issues downstream slope is a mess anyway so this is the resource area what do we want to do with this hold on yes go ahead up top the red
bar that cover yes is that in decent condition cuz I remember that being repaired but I don't Is that was repaired is it sized correctly to take this breach okay the water flow is going to be the exact same today as it is in the future that's that that's size for that's a 24
in culvert there and there's going to be no increase or decrease in water flows based on this so water right now comes into the pond goes out of the pond the same thing's going to be happen after the breach thank you yep no problem step one set up our erosion
control um I did here earlier what soap fence whatever you guys whatever detail you want we're happy to happy to do it i I put on a detail compost sock we can combine them 6 in whatever it is uh so we'll set up our erosion control uh on the dam and where our disturbed areas
are going to be hopefully someone's timing me right my 8 minutes uh there is a little bit of stream channel that we're going to be constructing on the upstream side so we use some swamp mats um up up there there there's some reasons if there are questions later about the actual stream
bed uh through the pond we can go into that but I'll gloss over that for now the dam currently has a lot of trees um trees are not allowed on dams uh trees cause problems they cause dams to fail that's a hazard to the public
and can all sorts of problems so what we're going to do with our dam project we will do a limited excavated excavation but we'll just uh take the trees and vegetation down in a small amount a lot less than if we had to do a complete rebuild and so that that's it's on our demo plan that I think everyone
has water control is a very uh important part of any dam breach project in dam projects okay so I'll quickly gloss over the water control portion step one since there's no outlet we'll have the
contractor go out actually pump the water down 2 feet that will coalesce the fish give them smaller area to actually be and make it a little bit and also take some um hydraulic pressure off the dam which is currently on there uh step two is to
set up a phase one coffer dam and then excavate a trench for the water bypass pump pipe we'll install a water bypass pipe with a board in the upstream face of it take down Coffer Dam number one
then lower the lake level pond level 6 in maximum 6 in per day and allow the fish to escape on their own or to stay whichever up to them step three set up copper dam number uh
number two and then um once copper dam number two is set up to complete the work in the dry in copper number two as any water that enters this pond is taken by the temporary bypass pipe after everything's completed water will then
be switched over to the permanent culvert and the temporary bypass pipe will be removed most projects I do there's a lot of questions about this but feel free and I'll continue okay so there's just a picture of a porta dam people haven't
seen it the porta dam on the right um and here's another picture of a porta dam with a pipe through it if you can see the the red there it's a port dam so this pond is about 8 8 9 ft deep portan is a great uh little spot for this section okay so that's water
control planting plant the pond is going to go from 5 acres to about 2.3 acres leaving 2.7 acres of land under former land underwater to now expose weapons okay so we came up with this planting
plan we have zone one and zone two we have I love this scrub shrub wetlands say that five times fast and then zone two is riparian forest we have um all sorts of planting plans and our schedule and everything uh up top there any
comments about it let us know we'll do whatever you want this is our proposal um we want to follow all the rules want to make people happy on the bottom right here on my screen is the hydraulics of the proposed condition okay and you can see that we took it
from 5 acres down to 2.3 acres we did not dewater the entire thing the reason for that is what we found is the pond bottom is actually very flat with a few uh deeper depressions one to two foot depressions in order to dewater this
entire pond we would really have to mess up the entire pond we'd have to put an excavator through the entire thing and dredge a new channel i'd rather not do that i'd rather kind of preserve whatever's there and do least intrusive as we can so we're going to leave uh 2.3
acres of water there one to two feet deep so it's not going to be uh regulated by dam safety um and we're also not going to disturb that many weapons but we do need down at the bottom here uh we do need about 100 ft or 120 ft of new channel so
we'll dig that we won't dig the entire pond out on the bottom right is our um the hydraulics here and importantly since my laser doesn't work on your screen I'll point at it is 500year event
so the 500year storm event generates about 60 cubic feet of water and the the pond will be 2.2 feet in water that is how much water you walk out there be 2.2 2 ft okay that's important the next
slide okay no questions so far where do we fit in the regulations in order to be a damn breach project within um 10.13 you need to have no retained water
under the 500year events we are going to have retained water under the 500year events we're going to have 2.2 ft of water so we're not um applying under the 10.13 we're applying under the uh
10.53E which uh we're furthering the protection and restoration of wildlife habitat so that's a basic overview of the project we propose to breach the dam i can go on and on and on my kids love it when I uh talk about work i don't
think they do they all make fun of me and um feel free to ask questions else go ahead all right i'm going to ask the you know the wise guy question anybody in the room remember this pond being dug no but I know who did it
okay with the Haywood fan okay for the for the farm right okay see you were going to hit me i I guessed that's serious question i'm lucky you like me yeah go ahead stop with the pen
um for the public how many dams a year are breached in Massachusetts roughly because I remember back in the day that was like a no no i follow all of them all the time now and there are repeatedly breaching dams everyone thought that's the bad thing to do do
you happen to know how many are breached a year now i don't i know lots of other facts about Massachusetts dams there's about 3,200 of them most of them are ice for ice farming most of them are obsolete like this no purpose there's also lots of bad things with dams right
they heat up the water dissolve oxygen goes down they accumulate sediment there's all sorts of bad things we should be breaching them um no I don't I bet it's in the dozens at least I would I was going to say 20 plus yeah I don't think so especially down towards the Cape that whole region is on going gang
busters with taking them out yes hold on i got one more um can you please confirm that there's no storm water that discharged or you know that that goes to this pond nothing no storm water at all from the entire campus discharges into
that pond that's not correct how much go back i'm asking for a reason now a few years ago maybe Dun here here are the flows under the different storm events right here but is any of the recharge that was put
when the pavement was some of the areas were redone do you remember that is that taken in do you know about that recharge underneath the pavement that they did a few years ago that's taken into consideration thank you go ahead so um speaking about the wildlife uh
downstream of the of the pond so you're so it's still going to be a pond there it's going to be a smaller pond right um and so you you were talking about the um water temperature heating up which affects downstream critters that need
colder water um and also the doc organic carbon and is it is that any of that going to change with this this plan um just a little bit let's see if I can
[Music] sure you know I tried to put some um rounded stones and just have the flow more constant and and what I think I even described it either here or one of the filings I put in there that just having the water flow over stones you
know might uh put more put more DO back in the water i wouldn't say it's a great it's not a waterfall but it's going to help who's going to maintain all this after it's done the college who maintains it now
well it's it's on the college property yeah but who maintains it now it's the college owns it yeah the college own it are they maintaining it or have they ask your question again have they maintained the dam that's on the college property minimally so who's going to be
responsible to maintain this okay the responsibility is going to be the college now there's more oh wait there's more yes there is uh the section way over here on the left I get over these boards uh 6 ft wide by 4 ft tall that's
a pretty good size cver and that's why under the 500 year event there's only 2 ft of water so except for a entire tree blocking that up even if it gets blocked up water can certainly get through a 6' wide by 4t tall cover
okay i'm just concerned because I I mean evident with the question i'm concerned too you don't want to put something in that's going to be you know blocked up and cause all of the problems that's why we we put that there couldn't tell from the plan how long is the culvert 80 ft
80 ft um is it possible you know again thinking about water is it possible to have um the bottom of that you know is it the plan to have that or maybe this is it to have all the natural substrate or similar substrate to Okay yeah I thought about that so here's the profile
of it so this is upstream and the water flows through downstream and I could have colored it if we um we could do a bottomless cover right i don't want to because you're going to have erosion on the sides and eventually
it'll settle down and it'll be and these are all going to be put in sections through the pre-cast so 10ft sections and you'll get disjointing so I definitely that is an option i thought about it i don't want to do it but isn't that the way the skates go now without
with all no bottom or flat bottom covers careful because it depends on flow when your flow is low yes the more flow you have the more erosion is going to happen i'm just concerned that that culvert that's there now is going to cause a
problem at Kelton Road the road yes it's going to be the same the hydraulics today right now water comes into the pond goes out of the pond in the future water is going to come into the pond and go out of the pond so it's not going to change Kelton Road hydraulics at all do
you remember when that was your place no I just I I I I don't know if everybody's aware of it he is or I am is that that water that goes out of that pond ends up in Plybrook right so we are at um Pearly Brook so what is the
temperature change that you're forecasting downstream going to be no I didn't do it i don't know well it's a cold water brook right no Brook isn't cold i always thought that
area but the Burke going is is co but if you but so right now when you you did your report there was 6 in of of freeboard if that's so that's taken out you know again what's going to happen to the you have a the downstream culver because you you got that six inches of
uh retention basin essentially right currently uh Yeah okay the water is so so it does slow down the water flow so this will actually increase the water flow through their dur storm dates right no it won't be the same flow water
flowing in water flowing out so right now water is leaking through the dam what's happening i saw it today so yeah okay the whole thing is all wet it's not at least the bad yeah yeah i understand so I guess should we be concerned with the temperature potential temperature
change downstream because of this breach even if it's short term it's not going to be worse than what it is today how well you're going to be bypassing all that and pumping it right oh during construction yes that's what I'm saying
like a It's going to be short term but is there something that we should be doing or is there some concern there uh we could do it early like right now the water temperature is probably you know 50° or something right it's not 90 like it is in the summer right so we can do it earlier in the season yeah because
you're saying it's supposed to be July 1st to August 31st so the date we're running into is Mass Fish and Wildlife wants us to dewater the pond before September 1st so that's kind of the start of our construction and so as long as we get the water out by get the water
control in place by September 1st and and dewater it then we can do all our color work and everything in the fall but your plan said July 1st right yeah we'd like to yeah why don't Why do they don't the water why Why do they want that water
that that time uh they talk about the fish life cycles yeah that's what he told me about yeah that's least disruptive to the life cycle i mean I imagine there's all warm water fish in there anyways i'm sure it's perch and sunfish yeah pickle maybe
catfish okay turtles lots of turtles lots of turtles frogs get the frogs now come on so that that path that's that you showed in that picture earlier is that going to be basically the same but then it's
going to be built up over the culvert we're going to put the path back yep that's exactly right so and electric I'm sorry electric back as well right now's taken out just for the project we're going to run those four lamps back um but good point so there's veterans
housing on the other side and I I understand a lot of the veterans who live there take classes and go through that path we're going to put that path back exactly the way it is can you talk about what's going to happen um in the future we're not going to be building we're not going to add
more parking back there nothing once this happens can someone take a picture of that 10 years from now when I go to the gym and I really want to park up front and I can't park there I got to walk when it's 10 degrees below zero go back to Not that I've ever been here's the big
concern do you remember back before you guys did all that parking there still have to spot currently the Monty Community College is under damn safety orders they've been
under this for years this is the biggest thing they want to get rid of this so no the market is not going to be expanded closer to 10 years nothing else is going to happen except this part nbody the lady shaking her head she's in
charge of it no I'm not in charge there you are anybody commission have any questions i just I had a question timing those coffer dams what is it weeks at a time yeah okay so the first one will probably be up for one week okay and then the
second one I imagine will be up for three maybe four months months not months oh months okay the second one they have to Yeah there is some work in order to get it in and get the head walls and all that stuff in the 3 to
four month kind of time so I guess we're still waiting for a D number correct and review i haven't gotten one i contacted you guys so we're going to not vote on it but we can continue it to the 14th unless you think we should push it to the the April
we're ready i know you guys are but I'm talking about time for D to issue a number and comment jason don't know D yeah I mean you could hope for a next meeting but it's neither here nor there when
they'll be 14 yeah still anybody else have any questions on the commission no no all right someone like to make a motion to continue the uh breach of the the DM at the Mus Community College to April 14th i'll make that motion some second second
all in favor i thank you thank you Mr chairman um it's not open for public we voted to close the public hearing i had you guys on the docket right here for public comment at the beginning of the meeting for anything on the agenda
well next next meeting do it in the beginning that's why we did that thank you not saying you can't just next um next on the agenda is 170 Mil Street i'm going to u continue this till the 28th and I'm going to send another letter to mask and
safety looking for an update support would someone like to make a motion to continue it to April some like to second second all in favor i new business anybody have any new business justin you got any new business professional development anybody have
anything no thanks just a great this past weekend with two different states land conservation just by chance that was a great one about Culver oh yeah well it's like that's Yeah I took it a couple
years ago were you there that last time I did the Cobra one and that's what they're all going with that ball i don't know why we're not um I get what he's saying on this particular case but I know about the I know you did all the
Yep he's right sorry looks like he's right yeah we can't talk about it would someone like to make a motion to end tonight's hearing i'll make that motion someone to second that motion second all in favor i thank you have a great night everybody