Seeing it's 4:30 on Thursday, October 16th, I will call the uh public welfare committee um to order. The clerk will please call the role. Council >> present. >> Council M >> present. Council >> present. >> Uh the first item on our agenda is the
reading of the minutes of uh the September 30th, 2025 meeting. I will entertain a motion. >> Motion read the minutes and accept them as presented. >> Second. All those in favor? I. >> Uh we're going to skip over the
department updates and go right down to item four, uh item number 11704, an ordinance to amend the chapter 675 of the code of the city of gardener. Therefore entitled zoning to promote housing growth and production in the
city. Um and thank you Mayor Nicholson and councelor Hardurn for being here today as you are the uh authors of this uh ordinance proposal. So I will let you give us a report. >> Okay. This is about a year in the making. It
started when I noticed an apartment house in my neighborhood after sitting for many years abandoned had been brought by had been bought by new owners and clearly were putting a lot of money into it. What I didn't understand was after it appeared to be done why it continued to sit vacant. I asked and was
told it needed a zoning variance because it lost its grandfathering as a multif family because it was vacant for so long. It now needed a special permit. To be clear, this was not new construction. It was not a conversion. For probably a hundred years, I had been in that same
spot as a multif family house. But because of our rules, the new owner, who had already put quite a lot of money into it, had to go through this process in our in our and incure more expenses. Looking around
my neighborhood, I noticed other issues like this with similar properties, and much of that have been incorporated into this ordinance. Housing is expensive. Building new housing is more expensive. Across my ward, it has been a slog renovating multif family houses, some of
which have been vacant for more than 10 years, some more than 20 years. 3/4 of the apartments in the city are in my ward on either side of downtown. So, this is important to us. It is important to the fabric of our neighborhoods. It is important for the city to not be in
the way of their redevelopment. We need to change our rules to make investing in these neighborhoods work. To put it in perspective, if there were an earthquake tomorrow that destroyed the neighborhood, our rules make it impossible to rebuild it as it was. Because in the time since many of these
properties were first built, we have put so many restrictions in place that it is either legally impossible to build or cost prohibited to build. However, I don't think that means that we throw everything away. We need guardrails in place to protect these
neighborhoods as well. So, I've worked with the mayor's office on the details of this proposal, which I would encourage you all to look at very closely, please. The most important thing, in my opinion, is how we are proposing this is targeted. Almost all of these changes will only impact parts
of the city that are already built out as mostly multifamily. My goal is not to change other neighborhoods, but neighborhoods that have been multif family in some cases for over a hundred years should be empowered to remain that way. I think this balances our need to
increase housing while maintaining local control and empowering local owners especially as well as developers to build but particularly to renovate. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Thank you, Madam Chair. And I want to thank councelor Harden as well for asking uh for my input uh help and
support for this ordinance as well. As you're aware that the general laws and zoning ordinance does have to be submitted by a city councelor, not the mayor. Uh so when councelor Harden approached me with her ideas, I was very happy to offer my support uh for her uh submitting this ordinance uh for the council's uh review and consideration.
Uh I mentioned in my state of the city address earlier this year that Gardner is no stranger to the housing crisis that's facing uh the commonwealth as a whole, but also the nation as a whole. If you look at our housing valuations, you saw uh yesterday I just submitted the certified LA13 uh to the uh finance
committee that'll be on the city council's uh review for your information at this upcoming meeting. We've seen that our valuations of properties are continuing to increase and the way that the Commonwealth through the general laws uh dictates valuations of properties is based off of the real
estate market tren trends for armed length sales in two calendar years prior. and we're seeing that continue to move forward. Um, and it's really making it so that the cost of housing are going up, but at the same time, our zoning regulations that we have relating to house, uh, housing production and
housing renovation, uh, are really making it so that not only are the costs of housing going up, but the costs of creating new housing to alleviate that uh, that supply and demand economics 101 issue has also gone up significantly because of what we're putting in place
for those who are trying to be here. And if we're saying that gardeners should be open for business and a place that people should be able to call their home, we it's we need to put our money where our mouth is. And that's what this ordinance aims to do uh that councelor Hardner and I were able to put together. There's various different pieces of this ordinance uh that I'm uh would like to
just walk through um and just you know give the synopsis of each section uh for the committee's review. uh beginning uh at first with just a definition section. That's something that's required for all uh zoning ordinances that just to say you know what is actually rep meant when it's referenced throughout the remainder
of the ordinance. Uh the small home section uh is a section that uh is starting to be uh you know brought up in various different variants um hearings with zoning boards of appeals and planning boards not just in gardener but across Massachusetts. We haven't really
seen this yet. So this is more of a proactive approach for us. Um, small homes is something that used to be called tiny homes. So, if anyone's familiar with the phrase tiny homes, it's a basically a smaller living unit that still meets board of health and state sanitary code and state building code uh measures, but is a lot smaller
of a lot. Uh, you can fit 10 tiny homes or small homes per an acre uh to help really build uh something for people who are looking to get into the market. Uh the average uh small home in Massachusetts right now is going at about 150,000 per small home, which in
the market right now where right now the average home in Gardener sells for around45, um is a lot easier for someone who's looking to get their first home and build equity in a property into something like this. uh particularly when we're dealing with several different nonprofits that we've seen uh
that work with people who struggle with housing insecurity. One of the biggest things that we get is, you know, I don't want to live in an apartment where I don't have a chance to build equity in the property, but at the same time, I can't afford a half a million dollar home and I I'm I'm stuck in this in
between here. And the apartments is something we need to address and that comes later on in the uh the ordinance that you see before you here. But this would uh basically allow these to uh be located in the residential districts of the city. Now I will say too that state
building code, state sanitary code and other zoning requirements do still apply to these types of properties in terms of setbacks in terms of um you know the square footage per um habitable unit uh in terms of different things like that. So all of those are
still regulated here. This is just allowing for a smaller scale construction so that really we can have um a place that people can just get their feet under them if they were looking to build equity in property on their own and quite frankly people who may not need a full house um when they're looking to get themselves out
into the housing market. Uh the next section deals with accessory dwelling units. Uh this is something that for several years was referred to as in-law apartments uh in the Commonwealth. This section of the ordinance, unlike the other sections here, is one that is actually required of us. This is
something that puts the city into compliance with the Affordable Homes Act that was signed into law by Governor Healey recently, uh that requires that uh all municipalities statewide allow uh accessory dwelling units of a certain size on all residential districts across Massachusetts. Uh right now, our zoning
is in conflict with that. Right now, in order to have an in-law apartment in, which is what our zoning ordinance still refers to them as, you need a uh letter that's been notorized uh by a um commission notary public to state that the person who's to be living in that
dwelling unit is a uh immediate family blood relative uh of yours in order for that to be constructed on your property. And if you were to ever have that person move, then that would be considered back to a single family home without uh the lack of a better term, multif family light uh version of what an accessory
dwelling would be. If it's not an in-law, they couldn't live there. You couldn't rent that out as a separate parcel. You couldn't rent that out. Otherwise, you'd be in congruent with zoning and be subject to various fines and shutdowns and uh cease and desist letters from the building department. The reason why the Commonwealth did that was to try to find a way to again build
more housing, particularly for the senior citizen population that we have in the Commonwealth. uh for people who again are looking to downsize but have nowhere to go because across the Commonwealth and no again us here in Gardener 2 there hasn't been much senior housing development that's been done. Uh so people are really taking their two
threetory homes that we've had here historically mothballing the second and in some cases third floors and treating their you know multifloor home as a ranch and really living on one floor. Uh so when again this is included in this ordinance to make it so that we are fully in compliant with chapter 48 that
was amended when the affordable homes act was uh adopted by uh passed by the legislature and then signed into law by Governor Healey. Um again and this is a requirement for us to do moving forward in order to qualify for state grant funding. Um because this is a mandate that was issued by uh the new law that
was adopted. Uh the next section deals with expedited perming for all housing related projects. Uh right now the average permitting time for housing projects is around 180 days. Uh this would make it so that all housing projects would have a 90-day turnaround. That way it'll help because when you're dealing with development, time is money in many
cases. When you're dealing with mobilization costs, when you're dealing with even monthly inflation trends in some cases, particularly with how the market has been recently. Uh so this is and you're also dealing with architects and design engineers and contractors that the longer they wait, the less progress is getting done. They could
move on to a different project and therefore time is money in those cases too. So that's really just to incentivize the development in a different way. But also uh the next um portion of that does deal uh with uh the secretary uh the executive office of
veteran services has asked cities and towns to uh look into their pledge to end veterans homelessness which is a state commitment that's been made. Uh and part of that is that if a certain percentage of the new housing structures being constructed are veterans preference, uh then we would do an
expedited basically do a 60-day turnaround instead of a 90-day turnaround. And that's in this ordinance as well. Uh again, that's veterans preference, not veterans required. And I want to make sure that that's clear too because that's something that was also issued in the state regulations that were put forward for this item is that
uh we're trying to make it so that someone has a leg up if they're dealing with an application for an apartment, a leg up for if they're dealing with some type of situation where we're, you know, we have a situation like the um the DAV over on Victoria Lane is looking at renovating um their main office building
and constructing 18 additional housing units in that building rather than a large office space that's mainly open uh without any functional use there. That would be something that here would be a 60-day uh because that would again assist with veterans preference and things like that. So that would put us
in compliance with the state regulations regarding veterans preference housing as part of that commitment to try to end veterans homelessness homelessness across Massachusetts. Um the uh next item would be adopting a section of the general laws that we do not yet have adopted here in Gardner.
And I would also say that this would also require us later on to come back and see if there's a place where a developer would like to do this type of work. We'd have to go back and do an overlay, but this at least puts it into our zoning ordinance um for the starter home section of the general laws that
would uh then allow us to put an overlay in where right now if someone came in and said, I want to do the starter home based on chapter 40B of uh excuse me, 40 C of the general laws, we wouldn't be able to do that because we haven't adopted that section of the laws. So this really opens up a new avenue for
development later on that we would then be able to say look is this the right parcel? Is this the is this really for the overlay to go in that place? But this will allow us at least greater flexibility to have that option that we don't have open to us at this time. A starter home per what the general laws require is the in between a small home,
tiny home and a single family home. Um where it's basically that it's bigger than a tiny home, it's smaller than a ranch. Um and it has different requirements there too for it. and adopting this section of the law uh the general laws also opens the city up for additional grant funding that right now is closed off to us that we are not able
to apply for. When you go to the various state grant applications, one of the check boxes in it is have you adopted starter home zoning as part of your local zoning code. If you check yes, then it opens up a series of grant funds that uh are available where if you check no, it actually you can't even see those
because it uh makes you ineligible for those if you haven't adopted this section of the general laws. Uh the next section is the one that uh councilor Harden kind of hit the most on well and during Kerr um conversations earlier today was the multif family housing by right uh in certain areas of the city.
There is a map included in the packet and it actually is an appendix to the ordinance itself as to where this would be. This is mainly in the area of the Sherman Pine Washington section of the city with some other uh areas down in the Greenwood uh area. It's basically places we currently have multif family
units. And what this does is if a multif family's gotten into a rundown state, um, after two years, it goes into a single family zoning because it loses its grandfathering. And there's a series of various attorneys that need to be hired, hearings before the planning board, hearings before the zoning board, and almost probably around $3,000 just
in permit fees, hearings, attorneys fees, and things like that just to start construction on the proc. And 3,000, it could be really three to probably $15,000 depending on the property that you're looking at. Um, so again, if we're this is just basically to take the neighborhood and keep the neighborhood's
character that's currently there is the goal of this. Um, there's a lot of opportunity that's out there for refurbishing a lot of the mainly three families that are in these areas. But if we're going to do it right right now, someone who there there's many cases
that we've run into where someone who buys a three family in one of these zones is likely going to do a lot of work without a permit because it's a lot cheaper for them to just do the work to get the house looking the way it's always looked rather than go through the process of getting it declared a multif family back over again after it was 2 years vacant. And if we're really um
setting the standards like we did a couple years ago with the nuisance, vacant bl uh blighted, and abandoned property ordinance that we did, this is really taking that next step of allowing those nuisent, vacant, blighted, and abandoned properties to be able to be rehabbed in a more efficient manner rather than, you know, giving something
with one hand and then taking it back with the other by having saying, you know, you need to do this to keep this property up to standard, but we're also not going to let you get it to its most and highest use at the same time. This really alleviates that conflict that we currently have. uh in the ordinances and I should say too the majority of the zone that is uh proposed in this
ordinance for this is pretty built out. So it's really just are we rehabbing the properties in the right way uh to keep the character of the neighborhood. And then the last big change that you'll see in this ordinance is uh the parking requirements that we have in the ordinance right now. The ordinance requires one
uh one parking space per bedroom of a housing unit in an apartment. uh and it does not allow for compact cars that we're seeing a lot for right now, especially with the incentives for electric vehicles that are currently in place. Um this would create those compact spar spot spaces so that you can
fit more uh spaces in a given parking area, but it also reduces uh it from one parking spot per bedroom to one parking spot per unit, which is the state model for the executive office of housing livable communities, but is also something we're seeing a demand for. particularly there's a property on Pine
Street that recently uh you know uh went before the zoning board of appeals to say um you know we can do under the ordinance we'd probably need 20 spaces and I'm using round numbers because just for ease of understanding we could probably fit 17 but we really can't fit 20 in the
parking lot that we have to also meet safety standards for fire trucks and ambulances and everything like that and that case is now in court uh because of those three spaces where they could really get the majority of those in there too. Um, so this would alleviate those concerns by making the parking requirements more congruent with state
standards that are there. Uh, but also recognizing that, uh, there's various other modes of transportation that people are just using right now where not everyone who's living in the apartment unit has a car to their own. Um, especially if you have a young family with two kids who don't have a license yet where you're still required to give that person enough parking spots
as if the two kids living in the room next door have a car themselves with it, too. And it really just makes it more restrictive to us here, too. So that's the uh very uh brief version. I've uh supplied uh each of the members of the the committee and the clerks a copy of
my notes uh that I used to run down for the questions that are here. I do also feel like it's worth noting that under chapter 358 of the acts of 2020 uh that were signed into law by Governor Baker, it was known as the housing choice legislation uh that was done to reform
uh certain sections of chapter 48 of the general laws. These items that are before you all fund under fall under the category of things that would require only a simple majority of the city council to adopt even though it's a zoning ordinance because it was uh there were certain housing aspects that if
proposed to amend zoning would fall outside the normal 2/3 majority vote of the city council for a zoning amendment into a simple majority vote and all of the things before you fall under the category that would create this a simple majority vote of the council in order for final adoption. >> Thank you.
Councelor Keith, questions? >> Um, not necessarily. Um, maybe questions to come as I speak, I guess. >> Um, I'm definitely in favor of this. Um, you know, I think that we're in a
housing crisis. >> I think that this right here solves a lot of problems. Um, you know, I think that, well, for one, I want to say thank you guys for even bringing this forward in front of us. um from someone that had an issue with housing or
having somewhere to live as a child um and even as a younger adult. Um I'm happy to see that this is a possibility. Um I'm happy that you guys brought this forward. I did write something up. Um and I just put down that I'm I'm
definitely in strong support of this item. um the amendment to our zoning code to promote housing growth. Uh this is a necessary step that aligns Garner with the reality of our current housing crisis and state requirements. Um
so I'm definitely definitely in favor of this. I like this. Um, you definitely just gave me a lot of uh information where I didn't know that, you know, there was a park spot per quarter bedroom and everything as such as, you know, I I've rented some places and I
was always wondering. I mean, we've I was guess fortunate enough to have two parking spots. Um, but I didn't know when I had a threebedroom that I could add a third parking spot. Um, so like I I just want to say thank you and I think that this is actually great. Um, I'll
have more to speak about this on Monday. >> Thank you. been really um I was really excited to see this um someone who grew up in rental housing knock on doors um in in areas um in in Fitchburg, Lister
and Gardner for many years um uh that are densely populated and um hearing from many of all three uh municipal governments that that holders have been met for affordable housing um sort of always made me feel like you as I'm knocking on doors
you know, seeing the conditions of housing. Um, you know, if this is what affordable looks like, I've always felt really uncomfortable with that. And then on the on the other side of that coin, uh, always being a focus on market rate housing. Um, and something I'm very, uh,
passionate about is is creating quality affordable housing, not just for single folks, but for families as well. Um, and uh, thank you. I really I really appreciate um the work that's been put into this. Uh also um the other thing
I've noticed knocking talking to constituents is that they've got family members uh like my daughter who graduated from college who's earning the same amount that I made in my first job in 1999 coming out of it with a bachelor's degree, the same exact
salary. uh and and understanding that that the salaries have sort of stayed the same, but the cost of everything has gone up exponentially. Um so that's really important um to to address as well so folks are, you know, um that the
younger folks are able to get off on their own. Um I did I did have a just a few um just notes that I took. Um I don't know if if any of these things have been considered. One of the things also speaking from putting my hat on for
as a working in a college locally, housing insecurity is also uh um an issue with students um uh locally. I'm wondering if that's been considered sort of a student housing overlay um in in that area. I
talked offline about that. Um the um the other is uh land banking. I wonder if the city has property uh that might be able to be developed for the purpose of the land being owned by the city and and then also for housing uh to keep it
affordable and um and uh what's the other thing? Oh, uh smart growth I noticed was in the proposal but not in the notes that you handed out. Uh so turning in some some of these vacant um buildings uh into quality housing is also
I suppose is part of part of this. And lastly, did I lose anything else? Um, oh, partnerships um with uh not for profofits like New View uh that take vacant single family homes and um rehab
them for affordability for first- time homes. I think it's also something just to kind of if it's not in there, yeah, something to think about, but this is definitely something near and here, you know, making sure that the gardener residents that we're preparing um a
gardener for residents who are who live here, right? As opposed to the ones that want to live here. >> Do you mind if I respond to that, Madam Chair? Thank you very much. Uh so, I did write down the list that I think I have, but if I forget any, please let me know. Uh in terms of a student housing overlay, it's actually in the enabling
legislation of Mount Wrea Community College that they won't have dorms on campus. Uh so that would actually require a change in the uh general laws of the Commonwealth that create and enable and the Mount WA community college facility. That's why if you look right now the uh Mount has a partnership
with Fitchburg State University where students because they had excess dorms at Fitchburg State, students are now can be busted back and forth between Fitsburg State and live in the dorms at Fitsburg State. Um it is something that did come to mind and I think that's one of the reasons why we looked at the I'm going to call them tiny homes cuz that's what I'm used to but the legal name is
small homes um the the small homes the tiny homes the starter stuff things like that but also then opening up new locations for the um multif family places like so particular right now um with the mixeduse development that's happening downtown we know that the
upper floors of the garbos building the shaman bank building um the empire management building. Those are all set to be converted into some type of commercial housing. Oh, excuse me. Uh mixed juice with housing on the upper floors, commercial on the first floor. Um
uh Diamond Hearts Art Studio at the old Wheel and Supply Building has the art studio on the first floor and five additional apartments on that. And the gardener news just turned into uh I believe it was 18 no yeah yeah 18 uh apartments in that building as well at
the uh obviously the Shamid Bank building at 25 Maine the garbos building at 210 Parker those are still under construction. Uh but using the Diamond Hearts Art Studio building at the old Wheel and Supply um building and the Garden News building as a case study, uh
there were uh 327 applicants for the five apartments at Diamond Hart's Art Studio and there were 427 applicants for the 18 apartments at the Gardener News building. So, we know that the demand is there and we're seeing it particularly with young students, mainly college age
or recent college graduates that are looking for mainly one-bedroom studio apartments or stuff like that or young families looking for a two-bedroom. We don't really don't see the demand for the threes and the fours that we used to see before. Uh so, that is some ways that like that that's why we're look, you know, the tiny homes, the starter
homes, the multif family by right that allows more housing to be done the right way. We're taking, you know, multif family uh buildings that have now been left as single families because of zoning issues and uh grandfathering issues, allowing those units to be opened back up, but also then re giving
us tools in our toolbox that we have that can promote development that right now is stunted because we we're closed off from seeing some stuff like that. Um, so that's really the way that we've been able to try to find ways to help uh with situations like that where there is that legislative uh restriction in place
over at Mounta Community College. Uh, in terms of the land banking, I was first uh, excuse me, I skipped on the smart growth. That is something that isn't here. Again, that is another checkbox that we have on state grant funding that if we have smart growth uh adopted here, one, there's several technical assistance grants to help uh developers
work through that smart growth process, but also then opens us up for additional funding through the community compact through the community one stops uh which are now more than just economic development grants as now EA has adopted the one-stop applications as well for their various grant programs for the city. And there's a lot that's being
added into this housing growth mindset to be eligible for state funding for different various grant forms. Uh in terms of the land banking uh statement that you made, uh we're waiting to hear back on a couple grant applications that we put out, but one of the goals that the administration currently has is to create a municipal surplus property
plan. And that's basically hiring a consultant to go through all of our city parcels and see what does the city actually own. We have an idea through our assessor's map of we own this parcel, we own that parcel. But what we may not have is a copy of the deed uh if it's an old enough uh parcel that's
there. uh a clear indication as to if there's any restrictions not just on the deed but through article 97 through various historical restrictions and everything like that that's there and basically coming up with a final report saying this is everything the city owns this is everything that's restricted this is everything we need to keep for various reasons but these are things
that have other potential uses for us as well uh be it for housing growth be it for development be it a landlocked parcel that was then built around by houses do we div that we find ways to divide that up amongst the people who are surrounding that landlocked parcel and things of that. So that is one of the goals for the administration moving
forward. It's not your traditional land banking, but before we can get to a spot like that, we need to see what we already have in stock. Uh and so that's one of our goals that we'll be probably looking at within the next two to three years. And then your final comment on the uh public private partnerships, a lot of the things in this ordinance
enable those partnerships to happen. We do currently work with New View. In fact, we had the liabilities to assets program uh over on Graham Street a couple years ago with New View Communities. Uh Mark Doan, their executive director, is actually currently in conversations with myself and Jason Stevens to see if there's other properties in the cities we can get through that program through the
attorney general's receiverhip program. Uh but a lot of the work they can do is made easier through what you see here uh in this ordinance by opening up again those avenues for processes uh and cutting back a lot of that red tape that was there. So that to be able to rehab those homes and houses that are there,
it makes it a lot less costly because you're not dealing with as much of the um I guess minutia red trail that's there through the the the tape uh the red tape that's there that they'd have to cut through. But also um by cutting back on the
different permitting lengths and processes that are there and streamlining things, it also cuts back on the time cost of money again which saves money in the long term of a project. Um but we've we've talked with New View, we've talked with Northstar families, we've talked with various other um agencies, even the Gardenner Emergency Housing Mission who deals with
people who are currently in situations of housing insecurity to see what are the main barriers from stopping people from entering into these. And that's also another way that these public private partnerships exist, not only in rehabilitation and construction, but also information gathering and seeing
what are the real barriers to housing that people are facing in this community and how can we combat those. And a lot of that input is what it what went into the proposal you see before you >> just one other thing when I when I talk about a student housing overlay I meant I didn't mean like dormators I meant like
private development >> for I lived in when I was a college student a place where we had uh locked rooms with our own bathroom and then a common kitchen and living room area. >> That's how I met that kind of thing. >> Oh okay. I I just hadn't heard of that before. So thank you.
Um, thank you chair neck. Give me a second and I'll go around. Um, so to be clear, the the tiny homes, >> yeah, >> some can be put on >> like if I want to put one in my backyard. >> The accessory dwelling units. >> That's the accessory dwelling
>> which >> doesn't necessarily have to just be in wall. We use it as a garage. So that's one of the ones I can >> order off Amazon. >> Yeah, >> believe it or not. You can order a whole container. I was literally just looking at for about $7,000 and it has two
bedrooms, a kitchen, a bathroom, um, for about $7,000. It literally >> the walls fold open like a toy and you make your house. I mean, of course, you would have to go ahead and you'd have to get the building inspected and everything, I would assume. Go ahead and
go, >> but Oh, yeah. >> Yeah. An accessory Yeah. An accessory dwelling unit is basically a tiny home in someone's backyard. And it's basically make that's the one that now state law requires every municipality in the in Massachusetts to allow these
types of housing to exist to help with the housing crisis. >> Okay. You don't get free shipping with crime. >> Um but it's it's amazing. If you just go to like Tik Tok and you go look at it, you're like there's no way. And it comes they deliver it.
>> Like I I I have a shed. They deliver it. The walls fold up >> secure. And >> yeah, you have a house. >> Yeah. >> For $7,000. Anywhere from 7 to 50, >> but it's not bad for students, things
such. I don't know if you guys seen it, but I just wanted to go ahead and put that on the >> record. The other thing that was changed when the state law passed or when the state adopted the affordable homes act is uh there used to be a restriction that these um ADUs again formerly known as in-law apartments now just accessory
dwellings because it's not just for in-laws um were barred from short-term rental. And that's something that state law now has also taken away is that these are something that could be either short-term rental or long-term rental by the property owner. So, if someone's looking for a source of income, putting one of these in their backyard and
renting that out to a tenant is now also an option. Um, that I just want to again for full transparency sake say that that also changed in the general laws. >> Did you want to see this? >> Oh, I've seen them before. You show. >> No. Um, thank you. I, you know, thank you councelor Hard and the mayor. I
think this is something that's so much needed um in the city. I mean, I follow the real estate trends. I look at the the listings and multif family um apartment buildings don't stay on realtor much long very long. They're very they're they're thought up very
quickly. And if this is going to makes the process for these people to renovate and to start renting these units faster, I'm all for it because I I have been following the Pine Street issue. And I guess that's one of my questions. If this was to um take effect, would would
it go back and address people who has have are still having and having issues? Yes. with that parking because um the other thing is to have to say this um carefully but I think sometimes zoning and planning
things get really tied up. >> Mhm. >> And time is money and lawyers costs are the only ones making any money and contractors and homeowners are losing money and I I just don't think we have a very e
expedited and userfriendly process in the city. No. And I think that's something that um you know I can see where people very frustrated. Um it doesn't affect a lot of people but those who are trying to do what is best um you
know I I I do sympathize with them. Um, I do have a friend in another state um that she took her single family car garage and turned it into an accessory dwelling and she took pictures over the, you know, the months it took and it's she has a beautiful place now. And the
reason she did it is so that she could sell her son her house and she's a realtor at a very reasonable rate because the housing market it's it's just so unaffordable for young couples. Um, and you know, she did that and knowing that, you know, someday he would still be able to rent that out privately
and get some income. >> Um, and that was the first one I had ever seen, you know, do that. And that's by a realtor. Uh, I just um I think that um, you know, in Gardner and and I' I've had discussions with councelor Heath and the mayor about
this. I mean, I I'm really into, you know, more senior housing. Um, it upset me when I found out there's more limitations. If anybody wanted to put in a manufacturing home community in Gardener, that that happened after the last one was done. I think that's something that needs to be looked at. I'm very interested in a continuing care
retirement community in Gardener so that people can stay in Gardener if they can't stay alone in their house. Um, and to open up more housing available for families. Uh, one question I I have is
um for the accessible dwelling unit but um an in-law apartment. >> Yeah. >> Okay. The restriction is 900 square ft. >> Yeah, that's the minimum standard for state. We can certainly go higher. >> Okay, that's my question. For example, if somebody has a house and um I'll just
I'll use myself for an example. I built a home having no intention of finishing my basement, but I built it for resale. So, somebody could put in um an in-law apartment, >> but it would be more than 900 ft². So, people could go for a higher allowance
if they needed to. >> Yeah. There's there's So, there two ways that that can be done is either this ordinance could be amended. >> Yeah. >> Um quite frankly, I think 1,200 is a more healthy number because then you can get an extra bedroom in there. Mhm. >> Um but whereas this was just trying to get state law adopted for us to be in
compliance, that's why I went with the just plain state law number. >> Um but I would I would have preferred to see 12 in there to be completely honest with you. >> Yeah. I'm just I mean I'm just thinking myself looking ahead and none of this was going on back then that I just took a house and figured okay if I split the
basement Yeah. >> in half, >> you know, which as I said, not for me. Um, but for for somebody in the future, I just, you know, want them to be able to use the space because multigenerational living right now is is is big. >> Mhm. >> It's really big. And with the cost of
health care, it's it's more cost effective for people to to bring um their elders in to live with them. >> Yeah. The um so if I just to finish the statement, so um the option one is to amend the ordinance. Option two would be they'd have to go for variance before
the zoning board of appeals, which again is something that again, this ordinance in most cases tries to make it so it's easier so you don't have to go for that variance. Um, but the state standard at the minimum for the 900 is going to basically going to get you a a one-bedroom apartment. When you get to 1,200 ft², that's when you probably get
a two-bedroom apartment. And so that's that's where I my like I am more inclined to say that 1,200 would meet the city's needs and a better need. But again, just to get something through so we're compliant with that's why I put it before the pledge of the council to at least do the minimum that's there. But I
wouldn't be opposed to see a amendment for an increased number for sure. >> That's I I personally that I would really like to see that entertained. Um my other question was on the expedited permitting. >> Yes. >> In 90 days. I I know what how long the process is and that what also we have
for resources in the city. Yeah. Can we can we actually say we could we have the staffing to do it in 90 days because I know there's I'm I'm sure there's a backlog in in the building department as it is. So I don't want to add more. >> No, it's the I the backlog does exist in
the building department, but that's mainly because the vacancies that we've experienced. >> I think this makes it so that there's a triage list, if you will, in terms of if an application comes in, we know that there's a certain day that's there. Um, but also once we get through that backlog, I think the systems in place to
work things through. Do we have the capacity to be able to accommodate this, I believe we do, between the inspector and the two locals. Now that we have one local hired, the inspectors hired, and we're currently looking for the second local inspector, once we're fully staffed in the department, this should be something that's able to be done at
that time. >> I just don't want to set anybody up to bail or get into longer cases that we we didn't meet a specific time frame and it comes back on the city. Um, so, um, I think, um, that pretty much answers my
questions. Um, I just want to say that this is going to go, I believe, November 3rd in front of the, uh, there's a joint public hearing scheduled between the city council and the planning board on this ordinance. Um, so that being said,
we would um as a committee could still make a motion of what our opinion is to bring to the council for when it does come to the to a final vote. >> Um, well, I'm leading to a motion to go ahead and uh present this to the council
as a whole uh for passage. >> Second. >> Discussion on the motion um through the mayor. Um, would I be able to amend that square footage now? The recommendation. Okay. So, I'm going to I'm going to um
I'm just going to make a motion that um we amend the ordinance to bring to the full council to amend the 900 ft to um 1,250 ft. So, we first have to vote on my amendment. And I have to have a second first.
>> All right. um >> to amend the 900 square foot for an a accessible dwelling unit um to from 900 ft to,250 ft to the city council to vote. >> So I second that amendment. >> All those in favor? Any discussion on
the amendment? >> Again, I'm just curious if that if that um locks certain folks out like depending on the size of their home um in terms of development accessory unit. Um I'm just
I I don't I'm I'm want to like what what is the >> I'm increasing the size. >> Okay. >> From 900 ft² like if you wanted to put in an in-law apartment. >> Yeah. >> You're right now you'd be limited at 900 ft. >> Oh limited to that was our minimum. No. So I'm I'm voting to increase the
minimum to to you know to 1250 ft. >> Okay. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Any other discussion on the amended motion? >> Increase the maximum >> to increase the maximum. Increase the maximum. increase the maximum to,250 square ft. All those in favor of the amendment say I.
>> I. >> I. >> Opposed? Okay. Now, back to the motion to uh bring this to the council for recommendation as amended. >> So, I'd like to make a motion to accept the amended recommendation as uh
as you presented it um to the full council for passage. >> Second. >> Okay. All those any discussion on the motion? All those in favor say I. >> I. >> I. >> It passes as amended. >> Thank you very much. >> Thank you. >> Appreciate it. And um Madam Chair, just to clarify, is that something that you
would be communicating to the clerk to let the planning board know before the hearing that that amendment? >> Yep. We will confirm. Yep. And I will also um make sure the Tulsa presidents aware. >> Yeah. Okay. >> Thank you. >> You're welcome. >> For the record, these will be >> those are the minutes.
>> Yeah. Submitted those to the clerks. And uh yeah to make sure for in the new packet it discussed. >> Thank you. >> Thank you very much. >> Thank you. >> Um department updates. The golf course commission was not able to attend. He
did submit an update um which is in our packet. So um we can read it at our leisure. Um but I thank um uh Mr. Frank for doing that and if we have any questions we can always bring them in for to another meeting. I will be
attending the golf course commission meeting on Monday anyway. So um all right thank you. Uh next up for department updates is the historical commission Mr. P. Nice to see you. >> Thank you councelor. Um so uh we do I do
have some handouts just um for the counselors and for the clerk. uh and they are in format with uh what was requested by the >> by the committee. Um so just a quick update I guess I mean I don't have to go through this whole list but there are a number of things that over the past
couple years the historic commission is trying to uh be more proactive and active uh as a commission. Uh the commission was established back in the early 70s to try to essentially locate and highlight some of the city's
historical assets. Um and early on that was done through a book that was published in 1978 uh by the historical commission and the historic commission also kind of morphed into the garden museum and that was a big push for the bsentennial um back in 1976.
Um so since that time we haven't really been doing a lot of updates to that those forms or those inventories. So that's one of the projects we have through. So, um, just to to go down the list as as a highlight, I guess. Uh, so for this month, we've been trying over
the past couple years to the historic commission has always had an eye on the historic cemetery behind um up there at Green Street. It's really never been clear who has jurisdiction, if it's the cemetery department or the store commission, because many years ago in the '9s, the
store commission did a lot of renovations. This was before my time uh on the commission. Um, but we recently met uh Mr. met with the cemetery commission to review. We've had some requests for funds to get a study done
for that so we can try to just work and figure out how to best keep those assets because it is a very specialty to try to keep those stones um repaired and uh looking good. Um sometimes once they're they're get disrepaired they just fall
apart. So, it's really important to kind of do that. So, that's one of the highlights we're doing right now. We are in contact with a contractor who has already been to the cemetery um a couple times over the years to look at some of these things and give us some recommendations. Uh but we are in
contact with him to hopefully secure a uh a contract to at least have an inventory review and then see what happens the next step forward. kind of a way for us to map out for the city to see what what is the stones that needs the most work and then how to proceed in
that manner to kind of make that work. Um so that's that's the biggest thing that we're doing right now. The other thing we're trying uh I'll go down um a lot of the things uh key operational metrics lot a lot of those things
pertain to us as a as a committee um we did we were kind of a co-sponsor at yesterday's event at the Garner Senior Center for the AP chapter um when the Boston Tea Party Museum came and did a presentation that was a great presentation about an hour and a half
two hours um and we were acknowledged that you know as a city historical commission that if there are people who have historical interests or questions that they come see us. So that was great that um you know Mike Ellis at the senior center kind of invited us to be
co-artners with that so that we could als you know um just have an understanding the general public there's not often times where the store commissions is up front and what what it does so allows the public to understand who we are and what we're doing. We might actually um Mr.
mentioned that if we had some other partnerships maybe in such a way that we'd be welcome to do that. Uh project initiatives I already talked about the old baron ground restoration preservations. Um project number two that we're working on the macros that
was in what I referenced at the beginning of that update inventory. Uh, one of the things we're trying to do is try to we would like to get and we're going to discuss this at our meeting next week is get the public more involved. When these inventories were done back in the 70s, they were probablyund
200 180 to 200 inventory items that were done and a lot of the public volunteers came through and did some of these to create this book in this inventory. They weren't all done to a certain standard. So, there was a lot of information that was missing. Uh but one of the things we have discussed and would like to reach
out to is possibly Mount Lusa Community College, Lard High School to see if some of the students would be interested in creating an inventory or even just general citizens that if they have, let's say your house is a historic house in town and you want to know more about it and you want to put that on the
inventory list or update the inventory list. Uh it's a great way for you to research your house and get a better understanding or maybe a house in the in the community in your neighborhood. So, we would we're talk we will talk about that next week as far as how to reach out to some of those organizations and
get some participation there. I think it's a nice way to get people involved. Um, a lot of a lot of since gardener is changing, you kind of talked about the the housing and you know how that changes with with the the population. Um, there's probably not as many of us
that were born here and grew up here uh as there there were a couple years ago. So, but there are still there's still a lot of interest in history. So folks that are coming in from different communities still have an interest in the in the history of the community. Um sometimes they just don't know how to access it or um you know we have the
gardener museum which is a great resource but there's also other ways to do that and hopefully this is one of those ways to allow them to participate in doing some research that allows the store commission to update our records as well as you know to do a public
outreach for some some things. Uh so project number three that's part of the volunteer recruitment. Uh we have we have had more public uh members attending our meeting lately over the past year which is nice to see. Uh again public involvement is always a good
thing. So besides the regular commission members, we've averaged probably two or three members of the public that have participated in our meetings and we allow those members to sit at the table and uh they're not voting members but you know allowed to participate as much
as they can in some of the discussions that we have. Uh one of the things that has been ongoing uh is the archives development at the Gartner Community Center. Mr. Eglli has kind of been spearheading that on behalf of the commission and the city. Um, we have
spent a lot of time gathering things that are kind of in random spots throughout town buildings, school departments, old schools, uh, even the high school, things that have been kind of just pushed aside and people didn't know what to do with them. Uh, Mr. Gel
has been very diligent in trying to search those down, uh, and at least archive them and inventory them. Some of those items we would like to preserve down at the Waterford Street Community Center um because there's some
space. Uh there are some issues with regards to certainly the conditions down there with regards to heating and uh um just humidity when you have any old documents down there. Kind of collaboration right now. The Garden Museum has a number of
newspapers, gardener news physical papers that they received when the garden news closed. Alberta Bell donated those to the museum and those right now are being stored down there. Previously they were stored at Prospect School which uh recently when sold we had to move those around. So right now there's
kind of a home for them. Uh but it takes up a lot of space with almost 230 if maybe 330 volumes I think of garden news from going back from the 1880s to 2014 I believe. So, it's definitely um a thing
that we're trying to to to move forward. And the archives is a nice space. We would hope that when the community center gets kind of built out, you know, for the senior center and maybe some other uses that it's also a way to involve the community to look at some of those archives and have a public space
where they can view those. um which is one of the things we're trying to do now with having an office here in city hall where we have a spot we can have some archives and if someone wants to come and do some research you know it's another spot that's available in town and then the last project we're we're
thinking about or trying to work on is having a historical collaborative. There are about five organizations in town that have archives or have done historical research in the past. um sometimes we don't know what's in their inventory or we don't know how where we
can access those. So by getting us all together hopefully forming that collaborative we can figure out what we all have and just have it available. Uh there's always the occasion when we have people that call up whether it's these organizations or the garden historical commission, people want to research,
especially uh genealogy research. They're looking for a photograph from 1800s. Their father or their greatgrandfather owned uh a store. They want to find something. Where do we go for that? If we have that collaborative kind of point that way. So that's kind of a summary of what we've been talking
about. Uh, I know that we've been updating you the the committee with our current minutes as we have updated them each month. Um, and we continue to meet monthly. So, I'm not sure if there's any questions that you may have.
>> Uh, I have a question. Thank you, Chair M. Um, where did you say that these the books were being stored? They went from Prospect to >> the Gardener news uh archives which were are physical volumes
>> paper copies uh are now stored in the Waterford Center. Um they're stored in the the old locker rooms uh the the girls locker rooms the boys locker rooms and the unfortunate part is the the conditions there with the heat like the main center of the heating goes from the
boiler room to the junior high side the twotory junior high side. during the winter when the heat zone they get very uh it gets very hot there and they can become brittle. So, um, you know, we we've been talking, uh, with councelor Hegman who's kind of spearheading that
to see, you know, as we get developed to see the the the community center, what we can try to do to to make things work for the archives as well as being publicly accessible for >> I'm just wondering with all these banks that we have that we are going to
repurpose if one of those nice safes they have would be a nice place to store some of that stuff and you'll have to worry about in the conditions that you're talking about. Um the um but that's just me just talking off the top of my head. I don't know if it's possible.
>> Um I just had a question. It wasn't necessarily anything about what you presented in front of us. Um >> is there is downtown where the park is where the movie theater used to be? I I
>> Oran Park. Oran Park is one of the things that I personally was just thinking about while I was driving by and I looked at the the the wall with the apartments on it. >> Mhm. >> On the corner where the um beauty the
clothing store >> where Roses used to be used to be. >> Yes. Right there. And I was like, you know, that'd be great if we had like a mural right there. obviously they own it, you know, like with a movie reel down in it or something like that. And again, it has nothing to do with what
we're talking about right here. But as a historian, um, I was just wondering if that's something like you guys could go pursue to go talk with the ownership or something like that. And maybe something to represent what the movie theater used to be cuz
that was there something. It It just looks so blah when you drive. I mean there certainly are initiatives that we could you know that being in a historic district >> um you know there are we don't have any regulatory historic districts so we
really don't have a lot of restrictions in our districts um even I think right now there there is one on the books with regards to signage in that district which hasn't been really followed because they created that back in the 80s probably or early 90s um where no
neon signs were allowed now neon signs have kind of gone to side a little bit. LED signs are in there, but you know, for practicality reasons, um when I talked with a past building commissioner, um it wasn't feasible to have those sort of restrictions. So, I
think when we look at the historic features that we have downtown, it's how do we blend the old and the new um to make things work. So, again, that's a private property, private developer, so it would be up to them to to do that. We have made recommendations in the past. For instance, uh where
um I can't think of the name of the gym on Victoria in in South Main Street. Um Planet Fitnesses, uh when they were changing that when they demolished the store and they were planning on putting Planet Fitness in,
the plan was to take down the chimney and the historic commission made a recommendation to the owner at that time. you know, this city kind of the chimney kind of allowed uh when driving down Route 2, it kind of signifies that
this used to be an industrial area, right? Yes. >> Um so we made the recommendation, could you save it? And they were amendable to that. Um they put their signage on there, which was a great use for that while still keeping the chimney. Um, so that's a partnership that you could certainly look at and you could
certainly ask um, you know, private owners of of property. Is there a way you can we can kind of incorporate some of that to to do to do um to make the area look better? Uh, we had I know we had one person that had discussed there used to be an old sign, sometimes they
call them ghost signs on that wall that you're talking about where it advertised um, like a diner or something like that. and I think it's gone now. But there was, you know, that's another great partnership where you could think about, you know, could you recreate a ghost sign or recreate some sort of signs that
used to be there >> that that was there. So, >> there are those things that we could certainly do. Um, >> and it's just a matter of of how how you work history into into today's
society as well as making sure that it's not prohibitive for moving forward with redevelopment. So um yeah >> and then um project name two um Massachusetts cultural resource information systems. You said that you were going to look at students probably
from the college or the high school. >> Yeah. So, MACRIS is a uh is a online you can you can go online and you can look up all the inventory forms that are each municipality has and so we would like to update some of those forms or create new ones since they haven't been updated in
years and we would like to get the public more involved possibly students involved. >> Would that be like kind of based for like a historian? You know what I mean? Like the mayor he would he he's a historian too. He's knows a lot of the history and everything else as he went through school and everything else. So
would that be something geared towards? >> It could be geared towards anyone. I mean certainly, you know, a history uh classroom could you might find it more specialized, but uh I know you can talk to any general resident in town and they
might have an interest in some part of history in their neighborhood or even a particular building. If you drive through town, you see something that's really, you know, strikes your fancy as far as what was the history behind that, it's a great way to to research through, let's say, a standardized process that
we kind of recommend so it's done correctly, research that information, document it, and then present it to the historical commission so that we can then update our inventory and add that to the Massachusetts Historic Commission's inventory as well and update it. Um, it's another public
outreach to to to do that because there are like I said 180 at least records that were already be done and there are many more that could be done. There are many old houses built pre 1800 that are not on
that inventory. Um some are still exist have been torn down but they're still worth documenting for you know what they were at. So, >> well, I just want >> Well, I just want to say thank you guys for everything that you guys do cuz I mean, >> storing the the the records as you guys
do and everything else. And I know today's day and age, everyone wants to make everything digital, easy access, I can go ahead and go do it. But keeping it where the world will say that um that uh history is being uh changed and uh uh uh
modified. Um, I think the way that you guys are keeping it, storing it where, you know, we can go ahead and still be able to flip a page and go ahead and go read it is awesome. >> Yeah, there's a good balance that we have to work out there. But yes, thank you,
>> Chair M. Thank you, uh, Chris, um, for your for your presentation. Um, thank you especially for the work around the burial grounds. I think it's important, you know, to to uh respect um and honor
people who have passed who are ancestors to this community and um especially since I I assume many of them are forgotten or don't have relatives that are living and taking care of um plots anymore. Um they have a question about
um uh the storage. I'm wondering if there's also some uh consideration for uh displaying um some of the artifacts in the community center so that when people come in they can they can see and celebrate the history uh in addition to
the type of museum. >> It's certainly something that we talked with councelor Eglund about as far as which rooms are available for um which which possible depending on the long-term plan of the community center. if there's a room that's available for, let's say, a a general research area.
So, right now with everything stored in the back in those rooms, um space is is tight. It's not really amenable to doing research and it's not very welcoming to have all because the way that everything's configured. It's just really it wasn't it was built for
locking room. It wasn't built for storage or research. Um, so that's certainly one of the things that, you know, in talking with councelor Hegman to see if we could do something like that with one of the rooms down in that area to have a more open area where we can display. Um, in working as part of
that collaborative, I know as being an officer at the Guard Museum, we have a lot of chairs that are stored in one of the back rooms and there's no way to store any or present any more chairs at the Guard Museum. Whereas one of the rooms there at the at the community
center could very easily be uh made so that we could hang some chairs on the wall and make it look kind of you know a little bit better and present some of those things. Um, you know, through our through our collaborative well, through our agreement with the the demolition of the of the Greenwood Pool, you know, we
asked for a couple of um the display boxes that were there and we're are in discussion with maybe presenting one, putting one up at the hall at the end of the hall at the off by our office here so that we can add some historical items in there to
display if someone comes into city hall by the office. there's certain move more, you know, as we get in these collaboratives, more opportunities to to present things um so the public can see the resources that we have. It's there's not a lot of spaces where we can do
that. The garden museum is one again it's being an officer there. I can't promote it enough that it's a great space to have. Um but there are other opportunities too where you the general public could be able to see some of those things. Just one last thing just
um part of my job at at Musit is to uh connect students across discipline to service learning projects in the community. They're connected to the curriculum in their class and uh definitely need uh with with the history
instructors who are interested in incorporating service learning uh placement. So please after the meeting get your contact and I'll send you the form for that. I always I always when when I was in seventh grade, we had a
history um the Mount the Mount offered a program where they would allow they would pay a a student to do a program. This was back in the mid80s and one of the ones I did was with Professor Tom Malloy was history. >> And so that kind of got me interested in
local history. And one of the things my dad and I did is we took Tom Malloy's book and we drove all around the area to see those spots represented. Um so to have those those opportunities I think are great to potentially um get interest
you know get a younger generation interested in in history maybe not as a profession but certainly as a hobby you like myself 40 years later or so thank you >> I would check out Professor Willowy who
I had for class and uh he really did a great job preserving and um sharing garden's history people and I also say in the ' 80s and Chris you may remember this is uh one of the senior days towards the end of the year they actually did a scavenger hunt around
gardener and it was all the historical things um and it it was fun but it was very knowledgeable like they had to come here to city hall I think they had to go to the top of the reservoir and count how many stairs were up to the reservoir but I mean but it also became eventually became a um a dangerous thing with
people driving and trying to beat each other you know and calling your parents saying you know do you have some do you have a diploma from, you know, Gardener High School in 1950 and everyone's scrging around, but it was all about gardener history and it was just it was just it was a fascinating day because they they wanted these seniors to leave,
you know, who wrote our, you know, the glory of the gardener and things like that. But it was just it it was really neat. And something like that would be like interesting to do with the senior center, you know, you know, how much do though, you know, get some of the information and preserve some of the the memories that that the seniors who go
there who've lived in Garden for so long and and because that's a great thing to share. Um, I want to ask about the volunteer efforts. Would you qualify under the VIP program to get a volunteer? >> Not this past year. I request
the HI director if that could be included in next year's program because we don't we're unpaid volunteers. We don't have a department in well here but uh we require
supervision and since we have no paid staff we're all volunteers uh the HR director indicated to me that something that she will look into next year with the mayor about including if there's
uh additional uh volunteers to assist the commission with a lot of the work. We do have a lot of administrative work, scanning, filing, research, uh, inventory. We do have a number of documents that have been collected last
year that are in the office. Uh, there are a number of things that are at the stored at the Waterman Street for Waterman Street School archives. It is something that we would certainly
use 66.75 hours of volunteer public service in this program. Uh but hopefully next year I will through the commission who chair the commission commission request that the commission be considered for a BIP
uh BIPS volunteer. But again it was new this year. We finally had got an office set up earlier this year and we do have the we do have PC, we do have a full office, but that's hopefully
something that we can acquire next year. >> Um, I'm just going to speak for myself personally, but if there's anything I can do as chair of this committee or as a city council to support your efforts, please let me know. We will certainly >> because I I've always had a great
interest in the historic preservation of gardener and um actually have have many things I could still contribute to your archives. Um the garden news a lot of them are on microfich correct at the library. Do they still have all the microfich collection of garden newses?
>> So there's a a collection at the library and there's a collection at the garden museum. Oh, they both Okay. So, there's So, there's different >> I'm microf is much easier. I know the people >> the microphone. Yeah, the big machine. Yeah, >> the rolls of microf.
I used to do research on using those. Yeah, they make me nauseous. But and how and and those are so I wonder if they go back as far as you have for the um editions that were donated. >> The museum uh microfilm collection and
the library I believe are complete back 1869 and the ones that we have at the the museum has the older originals back 1869 to 19
I'm going to say 03 or 04. I just off the top of my head. Whereas the there are a couple of of those missing. They used to belong to the Levi Haywood Library. They didn't have the mark and were donated years ago. I don't know, but some of them have the stickers
inside property of the Levi Horn Library. Bob Rice reminded me of patients throwing a number of them. But the oldest ones because it is so brittle, fragile, they're at the museum. uh from 19
I can remember now 1914 January to 1914 to March the end of March in 2014 with the exception of two volumes during the last quarter of 1963 which happens to coincide with Kennedy assassination and
the first quarter of 1964. Mike Richard doesn't even know what happened. they've been gone for so many years from the garden news that those 6 months we do not have those. So people researching would have to avail themselves of the microphone at those two locations.
>> Um with the um old bur burial ground the contractor is supposed to give you a quote for the cost of repairing. Is that correct? Is that what you're looking to get? >> It's right. So the contractor gave us a cost a quote for a study >> to do um to perform a study to
>> prioritize what the stones would cost for you know rehabilitation. Um and the part of that resulting of that would be a quote for complete or partial um repairs
>> um eventually. And I know you have with working with the cemetery commission. I would love to see some of the ones at Crystal Lake address too. Some of the older ones at Crystal Lake >> produce some attention. >> Green Bower, I mean, a lot of a lot of them need that that way. And >> it's it's really about making sure some
of the older ones are preserved the right way because >> I know that, you know, um the cemetery department did their best to to repair some of those. Um and sometimes they they've already been dam redamaged. So, and it's no fault of what they did. It's just the way that, you know, it's either
the process that was done, they weren't done professionally. Um, there are these little tricks that certainly professionals that have done gravestone restorations know how to make it work to last a lot longer. I just noticed if you go up through Crystal Lake all the more you less all
the street people who live in the streets were named after and you know whereas the old baring ground is goes goes back to you know revolutionary wartimes and but I find the development of Garter as a city is really between
Crystal Lake and and uh Greenbower when you go around and you see the names and the establishment of the factories and um a lot of important significant things that heard. >> Um, >> I just had a question. Um, I'm I'm sorry. I know we just jumped into the
cemetery. I got to rewind it real quick. We were talking about micro fascia. >> Yeah. Microia. >> All right. And I'm going to say this for for the record of the uh people at home. Can you explain what microfia is? >> People at home might not know what that is. >> I worked at the library
>> and I'll be watching this later, so I'll be one of the people at home. >> I worked at the library and it was a very popular thing in the um local history room. People come in and it's this big machine and it it's a it's a like an old film. Remember you had 16 millimeter films in school and they they
could pull out and let's say um you know you're looking the year you were born. You want to look up your birth announcement or you know your parents wedding announcement. You just go in and it attaches in the machine and you crank it and it goes in chronological order of
that year of every page of the garden news. >> Okay. So you could go you could I believe you back then I think we were able to print from it too but um you know I used it a lot for for assignments and stuff but it was just fascinating to
go in and you'd go in and you know you could see your like I see my parents wedding announcement and back then the gardener news was garden news and it focused on social events engagements graduations everybody senior picture was
in there where you were going so it's just it's um it's the history of the lives of the people who grew up in Gardener and you know the sports and it's just it's if you ever have time it's amazing. >> Actually my interest in history came
from a micro film assignment. It was uh look up what were the current events happening with the day you were born >> and it was like the last I think the bombs dropped in in in Cambodia on the way out on on the way out and then there were and then the uh 500year-old
monarchy ended in in uh in Ethiopia or something. It was like it was all these things I remember. I was like wow this is really interesting. Yeah. >> Well, when you guys break it down I know what you're talking about now. I just didn't remember what it was called. So,
>> um, my last I had two last questions. Um, one was on the minutes that, uh, Mr. Nelli sent, which are always so well done. Um, the administrative matters. You've been waiting for a law department review. Are you still waiting for that
since May? >> Mr. Chair, I you Mr. >> Yes. That We understand that the law department um has limited resources right now and due to the passing of our former city
solicitor and the closing of that law practice that our city solicitor has been assisting with
that was in other words um how do I say it inundated with work we don't have a a large law firm like KP Law where you have 50 lawyers that can pass on the
work >> basically I I don't even know if we have an assistant cities since I don't know you have one attorney managing all these legal affairs and assisting with former our former city
solicitor in W late John Blake and we recognize that and those regulations aren't critical today. We don't yet have an application that those would be pertain to. We believe they they were
modeled after they were actually created by attorney Christine Tree or I say created but she provided a draft >> reasonable regulations but the commission just looking for a an opinion uh with regard that draft to see if
there's any changes necessary but at this point it's it's not critical. Okay, >> it's we carry it on there until it's resolved, but we understand the situation with law department uh right now where we were talking with the mayor
about over staffing, short staffing. We've gone through major transitions in the last couple of years. I've noticed with departments, department heads, with staffing, with vacancies,
and I don't think that the law department is any different where they've experienced just an overwhelming amount of work um obviously with the passing of city solicitor attorney. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. Um, yes, please keep it on
your agenda items um because um I'm I'm very um sympathetic and I understand what the law department is going through um and how the city is right now pulled in many different directions and he's trying to
do his best. Um, but it also doesn't escape me that this was asked for well before any of the time, well before the situation occurred because it's stated that your request was May 22nd and that is >> that's correct. >> That is before. So I just that's why I
mean you know I do understand but it you know you asked weeks before and it is still pending. So, um, you know, so just please keep it, you know, on on your your your minutes, but um, you know, as I said, I I do understand and and um and
hopefully then the mayor will take notice of the possible need for additional help. >> If I may, that if uh we get to a point where it's critical, we will certainly bring it to the attention of the law department of the mayor. But it's um
attorney Christine Tree drafted it who Terry is very important attorney tree and I don't anticipate if it's needed probably a quick turn around but it's not I'm sure it's not a priority in a lot of part again understanding that John F was city
solicitor for many years >> and attorney has not had his years of John years of experience and speaking to somebody who's been in municipal government for 40 plus years understanding the transition the learning curve it is
coming into something about especially with municipal law there's so many elements of municipal law >> uh and it can be overwhelming at times so with all due respect to the attorney we recognize his work >> I agree especially if he doesn't have an assistant
my last question is um have you been getting emails about is the city having a 250th tree anniversary c you know celebration next year tree I don't know if any other counselors but I get it a There's a there's a group I will forward it to you. Um, but they I keep getting
questions that it's something for the historical commission that to have every they're looking for every sitting in town in Massachusetts to have some type of a tree in their city um to honor the 250th >> birthday of America next year. So, I
will send it to you because I think I get it. >> A tree. >> A tree like to decorate almost like a tree. Are you going to like are we going to take a pre tree outside of city hall and decorate it for the 250th anniversary of the country? Um, you know, with things that represent gardener. Um, I I think I must must get
it at least three times a month. So, I will forward it to you because I just was wondering if that was something that you were getting as well. >> Do you get those? >> I don't think I've seen >> I must be on Yeah, I must be on that list. So, um, with that being said, I have no further questions. I really do
appreciate everything you and your commission um have done and are doing and it's just it's incredibly important work and as a student of history um it's it's really becomes a labor of love that you just want to preserve um you know
everything and and I I do appreciate it and we are here if you ever need anything. >> Great. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you. Last on the list is the department update veterans department.
>> Come on up, please. Director Davis. Um, I want to thank you for your patience. >> Thank you. Thank you for yours. Um, here is So, I misunderstood the template. I used a draft I've used in the past. >> Um, I noticed just before coming here
that they didn't match, but there's slight differences. Yeah, there's a there's a new template, but I'm I'm very flexible. I just like to have something in writing. It's very helpful and I think it helps the the department head to present and um uh I want to thank you. I know that this is your first time
presenting before us and um we will uh take it easy on you but um it's just we want to know you know how things are going with the department what you know um in your short tenure you know what things could improve or what you have
done and um and just keep us informed of all the good things going on. So thank you. >> Absolutely. All right. So uh good evening. My name is Christopher Davos. I'm the new uh director of veteran services. Um I've been here for five weeks now. So during that time really we just been kind of doing an initial transition kind of reviewing the
department um our current landscape like what kind of capabilities do we have uh what can we can we not do uh how's our training so our operations our current operations um as well as our strengths and our gaps. So looking at the training our capabilities and some of our local resources
um current activities. So part of what we're doing right now is like staff engagement. So, just kind of speaking with the current staff we have, again, trying to evaluate where we're at with our training or lack thereof in some cases. Um, but in addition, two weeks ago, we hired an assistant
director. Um, no experience, but um, she has experience in customer service, just not in this in this role. Um, but she is incredibly strong. I think she'll be phenomenal to veterans. And then looking at operational and program review. And really the the general common
denominator I'm looking for there is are we being consistent, complete, and uniform in everything that we're doing with every veteran that walks through the door. Okay. Um and and more so it's because what I do not want and I refuse to have happen is there to be a gap where we miss a veteran and a resource
that they could have um used. Um and that's a big concern of mine because there's a plethora of resources available. It's a maze of resources if they go online. So really want to kind of kind of develop um a method to the madness in order to make sure that we're hitting all the wickets and going
through each and every one of them with every veteran. Um so we're just we're just uh auditing the current services that we provide, the ones that we deal with on a more common basis. Uh there's some that you tend to see not as often, but obviously you're dealing with claims in VA uh healthcare as well as chapter
115. Um so just trying to make sure that we're being um thorough in that we're documenting everything properly. Um, we're trying to map that intake and case management process. Again, just to make sure there aren't any gaps or fallroughs. Um, and again, it's just to make sure we're being diligent and exhausting all possible resources. And
then we're assessing the current documentation that we have on file as well as the SOPs that have been used uh and are being used. Noticing that some things just uh aren't as efficient as I would like to see. Uh my background comes from a
corporate world, so I expect to see a little bit more efficiency um in in what we're doing, a little more method to our madness. Um but we're also checking to make sure that any that is anything outdated and if so removing it. Um and then and that just goes for the process
or the documentation itself. And then community engagement. So I think my predecessor here, Cory Houseman, I think he has set a standard and we're going to keep that standard. Uh it's one of the reasons why I took on the job is I know Corey very well. I I'm aware of the standard that he has set. Um so a
standard set is a standard maintained in my opinion. So so far within five weeks, we've already done five different outreach engagements. So speaking with the local people uh and part of that was to start a new one with Fitchburg College and bring some of the local resources from like Worcester to the area, uh Clare Path, such and such. um
won't able to maintain once a week at this current um rate, but it's it's a good start nonetheless. And then because it's new, we're still kind of in this assessment phase. And just looking at like early observations of what I've noticed is because of the foundation
that the standard that he set, we don't need to rebuild. We need to refortify. That's really the the general consensus of what we what I'm I'm seeing inside some of those gaps that we're talking about. And really part of it comes from the reputation and perception that has
been built um that is it's it's invaluable to what he has done in the past and that really sets the tone and it builds a rapport to veterans. So we want to kind of again maintain that but also see what we can do to increase that. So that's why I say we don't want to rebuild, we just want to refortify.
We want to improve what we have not dismantle. Okay. Um the biggest issues that I'm seeing is just a potential in service gaps and weight lists right now. And part is due we're limited staff. Um as well as just overall degraded
capacity. Um I've been here five weeks and in that five weeks, four of them have been me operating solo as a VSO. I have my administrative assistant who is absolutely phenomenal and she does what she can to kind of handle more of the lowhanging fruit. Um, but when it comes to VA claims, I'm the only one in the
office that's accredited. So, if 20 come in, all 20 are being handled by me. So, that means longer weight list times. I got to push them further out. Um, in some cases it means we might have to outsource them to some degree, which we I don't like doing. Often times when it
comes to a veteran, we have one shot. We have one shot. That's why that reputation is isn't builds that report to me. It's it's imperative. So when I come in, I don't want to send them away to someone else. If I have them, I want to be able to service them right then and there as quickly as possible. And my
goals and my hopes in that is that we can see reduction in the overall suicide rate and get these veterans the services they need. Um so that's kind of my concern with the gaps in the weight list and part of it is due to again staffing. Um also training again with the
assistant director. She has no past experience and we're looking best case scenario 6 months before she's 60% um capable. Uh at 9 months if all things go well, we're at about 90% and again this is um in the most perfect of operations.
Uh at this current time of health development has arisen. So, it looks like in about 3 or 4 months, she's going to be up for some time, which means we're going to be operating at about a 40% um degated capacity for the next three or four months, and then we're back to myself solo for a few months potentially. So, we just got to do the
best that we can with what we have at this moment. Um, at the same time, again, try to maintain that standard set and not have any of that being lost. And we don't want that to result in in poor petition. We don't want that to ruin any rapport we built. This is incredibly important we don't do that. And then um
early observations in terms of our strength is that ultimately the staff that we do have that's come in, they're incredibly dedicated uh and and even the local resources again they're incredibly dedicated and committed to the veterans. We have some of the resources I've seen here locally uh I mean they're
unprecedented in other communities that I've worked in and that I've been in. So it's it's we really have a lot of resources and assets at our disposal. So it's it's great to see that from early perspective. And then um so short-term goals uh in addition to some of the
things that I've already mentioned is I want to do I want to conduct a full departmental audit. So I want to look at some of the programs that we handle. I mean ultimately we are the liazison between every veteran and every program. We not the um uh the arbiter of any
benefit truly but we want to look at all of them and see which ones are we thinking are being underutilized that aren't being marketed possibly. Um, this this department historically from my observations thus far, we do phenomenal with VA claims in chapter 115. I would say the only area that I'm seeing a lack
in is probably VA healthcare, but that's not this community. That's kind of overall a lot of that is veteran driven themselves. They self-deny themselves the benefit. So, it's kind of the area where we may want to focus some uh intent there. But again, so then overall
op operations as well as compliance. Um, I am seeing some outdated methods that were being used. Um, we've rectified some of those. We've used that to lower our chapter 115 by four personnel, uh, three of them in Gardner. They just
don't meet the criteria. Um, and um, we've rectified that. All right. Um, but then just trying to u clarify and evaluate our team um, relevant training to see where we're at. there's some training that our administrative assistant um should have that hasn't had
in the past for instance and we want to improve processes. So interdep department uh department communication that's an area where uh recently discovered there's some some gaps in that. We don't actually have a department um email inbox. We just have a distribution list
and that makes a little bit more difficult to know who contacted whom um and where are we at with that. So we got to figure out some processes to to stream that a little bit. Um, and then overall assignments are just general tasks. It seems like it's been somewhat siloed historically in this department.
I don't like that in the event you have turnover, someone's out for some reason, you have one person who only handled X and now when they're gone, it's it's a little more a gamble. So, I like to build it more of a baseball team, we're a little more versatile and not malleable what we can do. Um, and then again, continuing fostering
relationships within the community partners. the reputation again that you know um my predecessor has established is is phenomenal in comparison to what I've seen others do. So really want to continue fostering that and keep that going. Again standard set is standard
maintain and then for long-term goals you know short those my shortterm go 3 to 6 months longterm 6 months to 24 months I don't have anything accurate that's yet to be determined. I think if I was to make a determination of some goals right now, it'd be a little bit premature. Um, and I'd want to make it a
better evaluation uh during this assessment period. And then um request for the committee. Uh honestly, thank you for having me, by the way. And then I welcome any insight and assistance that you guys can or are willing to provide. And then uh if there any questions, please let me know.
I just I just want to um I'm concerned about the amount of workload and the staff you have. Um especially where Hbertston just was brought before us and I expressed concern about taking on too much. Um with that being said,
you know, I I I'm just going Let me just I'll just say it this way. if if anybody else comes knocking on the door, I think right now I I think that the brakes need to be put on. Um, and you know, I and I I and it starts with the mayor because I
think you have enough on your plate. And I think servicing the veterans we have and servicing them well is more important than just keeping adding numbers at this point. And um I mean we do a phenomenal job. We always have here in the city gardener, but you can only
you can only do so much. Okay. And um and I know that you know the uh Monachus Veteran Outreach Center works well and stuff and you have your different strength and weaknesses but still it's it's a lot that's being expected and um you know I personally rec recognize it.
I'm sure other counselors do but I just I just don't want to see um I just don't want to see the department um you know totally overwhelmed. >> There is a bit of a a misnomer there because there's a part-time VSO who's there. they're not accredited. So,
majority of those claims are coming to us anyways. So, in terms of overall workload, we've already been handling historically a lot of uh what's been going on there. The only possible increase that I could foresee would be our chapter 115 because because she's part-time and hasn't been able to do
outreach. I it would be phenomenal if there was zero chapter 115 applicants within that town. There has to be some. There just hasn't been dedicated resources to it. So the the plus side of not taking on Hubbertson is yes, you you can keep the workload where it's at, which is high.
The downside is is there's veterans in that community that are going to continue to be overlooked. Ultimately, the veterans dictate our schedule. I can set the best plan, the best processes, you name it, but the veterans dictate our schedule. And the ultimate mission, the ultimate mission is the veterans and their family at all
costs. And I would gladly take on Hoverson because we're already handling claims as it is. And I'd rather take them on and handle chapter 115 than have them go without. Now part of that might mean that we have some expectation management with the veterans. Every veteran thinks their thing is the most important thing and to them it is but we
have able to manage that. Um hopefully hopefully that's been done well in the past but it's something that we will have to ensure that we're doing now and going forward with or without ever on the plate. Um just because of the the staffing that we have and and obviously the we're seeing upon the horizon kind
of thing. So, so the bit of no misnomer because we are handling some of their stuff and my concern would be missing those veterans and only one who could handle it is either someone who takes them on or VSO who's there adequately doing outreach. >> Um, I can't definitively say that's
being done. And I I'm the daughter of a veteran and I understand how great the and uh the needs are for services and everything and and that we're fortunate that we have the services and as I said Gardner's always done so well. Um people
have moved into Gardner to have our veteran services over the years. That's that's just the way it's been for decades. Um but realistically we have to realize then you know we can only handle so much and maybe then other municipalities you
know need to you know start Fitchburg lumps start taking on some of these other communities. Gardner is really has more than addressed the needs of the area and I I just don't as I said I just think there Fitchburg has Lemonster we
know Cory's area now I mean there are other places to outsource besides gardener and for veterans still to get their needs met. So, I just want to, you know, I just want to emphasize that because um because it is such an important service um that there's a lot
of pressure to get these, you know, these applications completed for these people. Um and I just I just want to say I just have concerns cuz I, you know, my concern is not only taking in the new applications, but also being able to still serve this people that you have
been serving over the years. And it's just I mean it's just the the workload here has gone up so much just in the last 5 years. I just um I I just want to know that I recognize it and I just think it's something that needs to be put on people's radar.
>> And as you're aware, we took on um Winington earlier in the year. Um and my second week we're looking at stats and I think they were about 34% of our workload when Gardener is like 37%. So they're matching almost us and it really it's because of poor performance in the past. So really has a pros and a con.
There's always a there's always a cost to something. Um and personnel who is there not being diligent leaves the door open for a lot of mistakes to fix and that increases workload. And then eventually eventually Cory has done a phenomenal job getting it really to a a
solid foundation but there's still some things that you the assistant director was juggling to a certain extent. So there's still some a good amount of fixes there. The expectation would is that probably by J January, maybe
research in uh June, July, we should see a pretty big drop off in terms of the workload associated with chapter 115. I'd be interested to see what the some I've heard of Hoverton as as some as a possibility. I have not seen the veteran population. I'd be interested to see
that and see u and can get a rough estimate of what kind of chapter 115 lanes we could see from their overall population and poverty level. You know, it could be something small like Lancaster or something towards three. You know, is that going to make or break
the department? Not really. Especially if we can reduce some of the workload with Washington, let's say. >> I would think that should have been known when the agreement was coming though. I don't know that though. I I I just haven't seen it through all these things. So, >> but but just as an example, if you know
what I mean. >> First of all, welcome. Congratulations. Thank you. Good to meet you. Um thank you. Um I really uh I really appreciate your uh passion for, you know, reaching uh
veterans to make sure that this access to access is really important uh particularly in establishing a rapport so folks keep coming back. Um it made me think of um uh the the folks that don't um access resources or don't seek them.
Uh maybe they feel like you know you know somehow they're not um uh worthy or are not not seeking them in that way. And and that's important and and it and um um but uh it's it is interesting. I
definitely feel like, you know, um at least at least servicing the folks that are seeking the services um is is working. I appreciate you maintaining that standard. Um it' be great to get to a place where we can also like somehow reach the folks that
are just just living through without that that could use the services as well. But hopefully we can get to that place at some point. >> We will may not be right away, but we will. And also last last thing is um if you um is is do you have volunteers or
could you use volunteers for intake for example? >> We don't have enough low-level work that we could outsource that. Um when I started with gardener I was actually uh on the VA work study. I was pursuing my masters uh and I was a VSO so I figured
hey why not get more experience at the time. Um so could we do the work study? Yes. But 60% 40% we're talking 4% in about 3 months. 60% around you know month four to month six in that ballpark. That's assuming that person is accredited. If I got a VA work study
we're talking about 20 hoursish 25 hours a week for 4 months. It it'd be extremely low level. Um and I don't know if we would have enough lowle to warrant that now. Could it be helpful? Absolutely. But the high level stuff
would depend on the volume of that from VA claims to chapter 115. I can't have work study do that. Um that's really where you know much of our volume is right now you know. Okay. >> Um thank you chair. Um I I I I echo
exactly what both the other counselors said. Um my my my concern is it's not well it is the workload but it's maybe it's not actually the workload. is the workload so soon for you. Um I I feel like you have
great energy, great light to you and I don't I would hate to see that dimmed. I I feel like you're an inviting person to speak to uh to listen to. Um you get me excited just listening to you and everything else.
Um, and I don't want you to feel like you're overworked too soon, you know, while you're still, you know, you you can watch what, you know, the ex director Hasselman was doing. Um, you know, but it's a little bit different being in that passenger seat to get into
the driver's seat. You have to see little things that you didn't see, little visions that you didn't know and things, you know. So, like I just would like I feel confident that you'll be able to get to handle anything thrown at you. I just
don't want to throw it at you too fast. That's all I'm saying. Um, you know, and again, you you you're inviting like I'm going to be honest with you. I was really relaxed before when you walked over here and now I'm just I'm probably
hitting the gym after this. Um, so like >> so um but with that being said, I appreciate you. I do have someone personally that I would like to get in touch with you um based off of exactly kind of what he was um counselor um Tibo
Nunes was saying um and maybe you guys can just link up and um you you'll understand why when I if this person is willing to give you a call and everything else um he fits a lot of the boxes that you might want to check off >> 100%. Before I leave, I'll make sure I
give my email if you send him my or my or I'll give you the email and if then that way if you want to use a phone number or something, he can uh I'll send that over to you as well. >> That's awesome. >> All right. Thank you. And then that way you can >> Thank you. >> Very welcome. >> Any other questions? It's all about communication and connections and um
that's why we do you know department updates so we're um you know aware of what's going on and what the needs are and you know the positives and the negatives and um and and I want the departments under these
welfare committee to feel supported. Um, so thank you for coming this evening and if you ever need to update us with anything and you don't have to wait for a meeting. You can always send us a department update whenever you'd like or if you need something, don't hesitate to reach out to us. >> But thank you very much for your time. I
really appreciate it. Honestly, >> any other counselor questions or comments? >> Um, I just I I kind of have a comment. Um, it's not directed at Yeah. >> Um, him, it's for all the department heads. Um, I I kind of wish that we
would have our department heads maybe quarterly. Do you know how the mayor does his weekly updates? He's both behind the camera and everything else. I think that the community needs to start seeing the energy of some of these department heads and get excited like I get excited when when we're here. We're
listening and things and such. And maybe >> kind of like what we're doing with um Ecode Dev where there's a lot going on. We meet more frequently. Maybe again YouTube videos a little bit more frequently. And I'm not talking like the 5 minutes. People don't have 5 minutes. They're 20 second little clips to go
ahead and everything else. Just enough that oh that's who that is when I see when I go to city hall. That's his you know they they can recognize a face a voice to the position and get excited about the things that you're doing. And it also or or or you know another head
is doing and everything else. And I think that that right there would be great, especially the fact that we're, you know, we're going into 2026. Um, I think that a lot of people like to see visual, >> you know, and people are, you know,
>> I think that's important. I mean, even um, you could even have, you know, once a month you could have the mayor spotlight counselor updates and do something on WG. Yes. >> And do department updates. The other thing too is I just thought of this. You could have your f, you know, just a picture and work with u Mr. Joy and have
him put information out on WG which is our local network. So, you know, any veterans out there, you know, seeking support services, you know, and just, you know, and you know, here's who to contact because we might reach the people that some people don't might not even know where to reach out. I know
some people are hesitant, some people don't think that they would qualify or you know um so I just I think you know whatever you can to get the word out but I think you know we do have we do have the um resources out there to to do
these things and um I had said before how um you know economic development I I yeah I feel like you know the the council president's doing um committee updates but I think I every department head should have to
spend updates which is why I started with our updates and I wanted something in writing and now the president is taking it further but I do think that there should be um something on a continual basis because um it's easy for us to keep up with things and and and
then be prepared for surprises and but I want to know what good's going on. >> Full disclosure as a new person of five weeks I've met a lot of department heads and they are phenomenal. It is I'm like legitimately they are phenomenal. Aging services. I mean he he does so much.
It's it's insane to to see what that gentleman can do. Um you a lot of the other department heads as well. So it's not a bad idea cuz you have you have really good talent here. This talent >> truly one one other thing I'll go ahead and just add to it. Um, you know, I I I go to the stores like, you know, and and
I certainly see a lot of older people who may have been more resistant to technology. >> They're more with it now. And I think QR codes is something that we can go ahead and use as um, you know, chair Mac was saying, as far as you go, I think a QR
code with your face and everything else, people like, oh, and they can quickly, you know what I mean? Cuz the phones nowadays, >> you know, they they're auto texting or autotyping, whatever it is, and they try to put your link in, they're spelling it wrong, but if they use their camera,
they hit the QR code and it brings them right to it wherever you're, you know, whatever you're doing, things of that. I think that's great as well. >> Well, it's good balance. Um, I've actually used that in my previous town. I had, um, on the wall, hey, like, hey, can you contact me? And it was a QR code. When you scan it, bring it right
to my email address. Uh, so it worked out pretty well. Um, one of the things that we haven't got to that point yet because we're still in the initial assessment phase, but one of the things we're considering is putting that on our business cards, the department, you know, again, same thing. Um, I mean, obviously there's some generational gaps, but for a good portion, uh, it's
useful. I mean, the bulk of them are still in the 60s and older, but there is a fair subset now that would utilize that. Yeah. >> Thank you. >> There's nothing else. I'll entertain a motion to adjourn. >> So, second. >> All those in favor of adjourning say I.
>> I. I'm okay. Meetings to your own. Thank you very much. You guys are going to be safe. All right.