e e e e e e e e good evening folks and good evening folks and welcome to the
planning board session um for Wednesday March 12th um as this is a uh a public meeting um I would ask that uh your cell phones be either silenced or um turned off and uh we'll carry on pursuing to
the open public meetings law this is the state for the record that adequate notice of this meeting has been provided to the public by publication in the Union County Hawk on January 2nd 2025 posting on the barel website and posting and filing of said notice in the office
of the municipal clerk this is a regular scheduled meeting of the board at this time I'm going to ask for a flag salute and um a moment of silence I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to
the Republic for which it stands one under God indivisible with liy and justice for all thank you ad Ro call please mayor blumenstock here miss lysac
here councilman Carney here chair greed here miss vagio here Mr nearad here Mr Barkin here miss hay here miss biano here and Mr buers here okay at this time if everyone has had an
opportunity to review the minutes of the prior meeting I would ask for a motion to accept those minutes on motion second all those in favor I opposed hearing none motion carries okay uh tonight to open it up we
have a um we have an appeal uh and that's from uh um by pursuing to uh section 40 uh 55d appeal of the action with respect to zoning article but the administrative officer's decision that a
car storage facility is not permitted use at 60 639-645 South Avenue and the applicant is all elbana Caroline I'm the attorney for applicant and Mr Alama is also here with
me great um do you think you can switch to mic yeah and then you will have to turn it on there's a power button right in the middle that's it thank you okay so my name is Carol and Aly I'm
from the law firm of Kate's nusman Ellis far and Earl um we represent Mr albana who is uh here with me tonight um pursuant to his appeal of the determination that a luxury car storage facility is not a permitted use at um
639 645 South paav the property is located in your general business district and is presently operated by a limousine business um that includes storing the limousine Fleet uh during the day and then dispatching cars from that location uh this use was permitted
and approved pursuant to a resolution dated April 28 2010 that granted the use variants uh for the property to permit the limousine business to uh to um uh permitted that use uh pursuant to the
resolution the April 28th 2010 resolution there is a history um of that property that illustrates the property had been used uh previously as a service garage for cars A dispatch office for limousines um and again is currently
being used by the limousine company um by way of this appeal the applicant is seeking uh relief from the board on the basis that the zoning officer made a error in determining that the prior use variants would not be applicable to the applicant's proposed use of the property
as a luxury car storage facility um the proposed use Falls squarely within the use variants because the current use and the prop proposed use both fall within the same category in the municipal zoning ordinance and are substantially similar uh specifically the municipal
zoning or ordinance uses the SIC to develop categories of uses that are permitted in zones pursuant to the SIC the current use of the property falls within major group 75 and likewise the proposed use of the property would also fall within um major group
75 um in addition there are a number of other autor related uses in the immediate area um and directly across the street from the property is the light industrial Zone that already allows for the major group 75 as a permitted use um so I will respectfully
submit to the board that the proposed use is substantially similar to the current use um and I do have my client uh present with me to offer testimony to substantiate the similarities and also answer any questions that the board may have okay thank you okay
um I so Mr chair Mr chairman I think just as a preliminary matter uh for procedure I'd like to note that I think the uh the Genesis of the representation of Council in this matter probably uh Bears
repeating which is this matter have been on for uh whatever the last meeting was in February a few days before that I had an opportunity having been presented with the applicant's original application which I felt
was skeletal um at best so I reached out to Mr Albano we had a somewhat lengthy conversation as to what it was that he wanted to do and I helped to educate him as to the procedure and that it might um in order
to be his benefit to have councel come in on his behalf to prosecute this application because I felt that his application as present it was deficient and whether the merits were there or not I did not think that there was a record that this board would be able to Grant
the relief that he sought and to give him a fair hearing so I suggested that he might want to if he wished it wasn't required to but that he might wish to adjourn and have an opportunity to retain councel to present this application which he then availed
himself of that I then had a subsequent conversation with M landal about this and uh that's the Genesis of how we get where we are here today uh I did have conversations with Victor about this as well you know whether Victor's
determination in this matter was correct and that's the subject of this appeal I think that the board would be bearing in mind that Victor would be ering on the side of caution and if there was any doubt in his mind he would be more
likely to deny it so that there would be an opportunity for the board to see what's going on here and to weigh in on this and that gets us where we are okay thank you Don so with that I'll swear Mr alvana Mr alvana please raise your right hand do you Solly swear or affirm that
the testimony you're about to give before this board will be the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth I do okay and then just as a preliminary matter you heard your uh Council uh make a bunch of representations as to the facts of this matter and I'm going to
let her question you of course to whatever she wants to ask but just preliminarily is everything that she said true and you swear to it yes all right Council your witness further if you have specific question um what is your current interest in the property I'm a
prospective buyer okay and what is can you explain or educate everyone the exact intended use as a luxur storage facility ask first you're the contract purchaser correct correct yes and is your contract contingent upon receiving
the necessary approval by this board to permit the use that you're asking for it is now explain what it is uh this is as um my attorney mentioned this is an exotic and luxury car storage facility so car collectors
who have vintage cars or even newer luxury cars that are not driven often uh will find a place that is climate controlled uh safe for them to store these cars so that it's not harmed by the environment and the climate um and
and they store the cars in there and keep them in there for safekeeping okay can you describe the business model a little bit are you expecting a lot of foot traffic is it more of a longterm situation sure uh typically with these vintage cars um they're sort of like art pieces that you
kind of hang on your wall and and look at and um so driving them is not really something that they do often um so typically they're driven obviously only in nice weather we never drive them uh when they're salt on the ground so in the winter time they never leave the the
garage uh maybe once or twice a year they take the cars out and drive them um just to kind of get the engine going and things like that so the facility will be open would be open about 9:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m. and um the the customers will have the opportunity to come pick up
their car which they typically would be dropped off um so this way they're dropped off they take their car out and then they come back they drop it off and then they get a ride wherever they're going and again it typically would happen somewhere around maybe twice a year how many cars will the facility
accommodate we're looking based on the size um we're looking at about 50 and how many employees you anticipate will be on premise so there'll be one employee um between our is of 9
to5 and the purpose of that employee is to provide access to the customers who may want to drop off the car or pick up a car correct correct and we would require uh at least 48 hour notice if somebody is looking to drop off or pick up the car so that we can make sure that
everything is situated for them and on a typical day based upon the description that you have 50 cars and the people are taking them out two or three times a year on a typical today you're not going to have more than four or five cars going in and out are you
no that's a good job to sit there we get to look at beautiful cars though so it's not too bad I do have a couple questions um the original use variants uh had the
conditional use um well first it had it it was under the it was under the understood that there were going to be 18 Vehicles parked within the premises now you're saying they're going to be 50 um are you going to did you is it are there going
to be any lifts or any any markings are you going to remark the interior of the garage or um how's that how's how's the interior going to change from what it is currently so because of the current news today the dispatching happens on a much more frequent basis so the cars are not
parked there for months so they have to be parked in a way where they have an easy way of ESS and Ingress whereas for our use the cars would pretty much stay there for the majority of the time so we're able to kind of stack them a little bit more and that's why we we
said that it would take 48 hours so this way if somebody says I need a car and it's all the way in the back row we start to move the cars in front of it so stacking meaning not vertically horizontally okay and will you be striping anything on the inside or not um we we will have some striping just as
a guide for the employee that's working there to make sure that the cars are parked in the right place mhm okay and um I know there was some conditional uses on the prior on the prior use variants um not conditional us conditions conditions on the prior use
on the prior um use variants and um some of them were uh sidewalk and shade trees Bill do you know if those shade trees were are there yes they were installed okay after a few phone calls okay um still
there that's SCH okay ref use containers they're they're all taken care or they will be taken care of and they will not be um they will not be any garbage on the outside of the building correct correct okay
um okay and uh smoke fire and carbon dioxide detectors all that will be installed if it's not already absolutely yeah okay is that going to be handled any differently than it is now um I mean it's there's going to be definitely much more
um because of the the the price and the value of these cars we we will definitely have to make sure that the system that's installed for those sort of detection and safety measures are a lot more adequate than what they have today even a sprinkler system and things like that I was going to say you're going to say you're going to basically
upgrade a lot of the systems within the building is that going to include a direct contact with the fire department yes it will be a centrally monitored system that will automatically alert the file Department if there is anything that um triggers the system system um so as you can imagine if somebody's parking
a quar million dollar car in there they want to make sure that the facility is you know absolutely yeah yeah okay all right um I don't have any other questions at this time anybody else from the board yeah um Steve what's there
now um the comparison is similar in the sense of what the use is for So currently today they they Park the vehicles that are used in the limousine service and the vehicles you know are in the building they're parked in the building they're stored in the building
and they come in and out of the building the the main difference is the frequency in which that will happen and as a result of the Lesser frequency you can put in more cars correct and the um the climate control
aspect I assume that will need some construction with permitting things like that is that um can you EXP the building does not have an HVAC system um it it doesn't have any kind of climate control at all naturally because I don't think that they need it um so one of the
things that we would definitely have to do is put a climate control system by installing HVAC units uh rooftop units that will then keep the temperature in the building at a specific level all year round and how about security uh are you
going to increase obviously this so we'll obviously have um a burglar alarm that's also Central centrally um tied in with the police department so if anything happens it automatically alerts them we'll have camera systems um and pretty much that's it we don't plan on
having like an a security guard staying 24 hours we'll rely on technology and other systems to monitor okay and and the applicant is prepared fully comply with conditions a through F set forth in
the prior use variants and the applicant understands that if there was approved that that's all a condition of the approval yes absolutely okay and with regard to I'll do it for Mr nearad to the extent that there's any issue with these stage State the shade trees that
they have degraded or died or anything like that that the applicant will undertake to comply and bring it up the code or up to Snuff on on those issues correct yes and just to add to that so one of the things about these kind of facilities is the appearance and the
Aesthetics are very important so having good landscape in the front even the the exterior of the building needs to look modern needs to look clean um again you the clientele that we would serve are used to something that's very luxurious and very clean and so one of the things
that you know we would definitely do not just from a landscape perspective is as you drive by the building we anticipate something that just really is very eye-catching very modern very clean very luxurious kind of matches with what else is happening in the town today so you will be uh re repainting and um redoing
the exterior the facade of the building yeah my partner wants to go a little crazy and uh and not just do repainting so we got to but we definitely will be repainting and and making the exterior fixing any cracks and things like that and make the exterior look more modern
how about the bay doors are you going to do any changes with those um we might change them so that they're they have a little bit more visibility maybe some a little bit of glass aspects like frosted glass just to make them look a little bit more modern but the actual doors themselves obviously they serve the same
purpose that we would need so we would keep them there just change the um the material of it just to look more modern okay very good yeah now um so with the enhanced security enhanced Aesthetics of the property are you planning um enhanced
exterior lighting around the property absolutely will that be submitted for um planner review or just want to make sure it's it's um done so that it's not creating a lot of Sky glow and not too bright you know
for the surrounding yeah I mean I think I think from from a lighting perspective on the exterior it wouldn't be anything out of this world just maybe some exterior lighting with the the scones that have like the the dual lights on the top and the bottom just something a little mellow yeah nothing like flood
lights or anything um like that something more like down lighting especially especially since in back of it in back of the building yeah their houses yeah exactly yeah the lighting would again also be more aesthetic and not
necessarily for security purposes or anything like that so would it be on 247 or is it maybe after certain hours it's occupancy like timer Bas timer base kind of like from Sunset to you know 9:00 p.m. or something again more aesthetic purposes okay okay so would you be
willing to submit a lighting plan for a review to Mr V off to subject his approval um yeah I mean again I don't we're not really looking to do anything crazy with the lighting um on the exterior one man's crazy is another
man sure subjective but that'll be okay yeah okay great that that'll be a condition on okay just one other question so it's purely storage there's no like routine maintenance going on no oil changes is there car washing going
on theic absolutely purely storage purely storage yes so I think it's basically the same type of you I mean same uh same uh use as there was before
based upon your testimony correct um okay thank you co Bill well I hate the use of this term strict constructionist elsewhere goinging I'm pretty much of a strict construction I'm going to ask you
stra Zone question sure okay maybe your attorney can can bill can you can you speak up a little bit even though and I'm sorry for standing over here I have a back and leg issue and so I appreciate everybody's patience while
this gets better um so the zone is General business right what is what is the last Co that was issued for this property all right because if we're saying it's the same use as previous we need to know what the last permitted use was the last legal
use so that's I don't know I don't know we go by the co it was when did you need a CO for you need a CO to to tell you it's legal not the not the resolution now but the resolution says before the current user formally
used as a service garage and dispatch office for liery service so similar so that's similar that's all nice but the last legal use is what's on the last CL so if you want to continue the same use
well what's the last legal use but is works the same use or he's asking for I think he's Well w get into I mean he's asking for he's saying it's a similar use so he's asking for a
continuation of a similar use exactly so so what's the last legal use and here's where I'm not following bill and I apologize it's okay there's a lot of things about zoning that I you forgot more I'll ever know don't say that I'm forgetting more and more every
day I'm I'm not following this because to me if there's a use variance that says that the limousine use is legal okay that's our jumping off point it seems to me they come in here saying the limousine use is legal it seems to
me the question is is this close enough to the limousine use that we can say it's not a change and therefore it falls like it's like limousine use or is it not and reasonable Minds can differ as to whether it's close enough or not but
I'm not sure that I follow what the co would tell us that the use variance does not because the use variance is just a use that's permitted by this board a CO is what's permitted by the municipality and when you are going for an interpretation or if you're going for continuation of a
prior use okay sure this is what the what the use variant says is this indeed what the people who are there now did the people who there now follow that use variance did they do what that use variance required you even being used as a in this particular case being used as
a limousine service legal limousine service do they have a COO we all have Coos for our houses we all have cosos or do they have a CO one would think if they've been operating would one would think 15 years ago is we have any way of determining
when the last Co was issued and if it corresponds with his data another good question would they need a CO to operate to offering Right theory yes okay in
probability yes in actuality who knows exactly that's Bill's point but that having been said it seems to me and again I I I know Bill's an expert but it seems to me that if there's a use
variance that says they're allowed to do this and they are in fact doing it and the testimonies as I understand it is that this limousine business is in fact and has in fact been up in
operation which would then be pursuant to the use variance to me follows okay the limousine is business is a legal use here and I Circle back then to the question again I think the question is is this close enough to put it in bernac
and I would I would put forth another another point and that is if this is this operated as a limousine service and I personally think that this this um this new um this new applicant um has a close enough um type of business that it
would fall under the same criteria as that limousine storage place but if that limousine storage place didn't in fact operate for 20 or 14 years 15 years without a c ofo then I would push back
on our town and I would say okay I would say okay then pursuant to the fact regardless of whether they had C ofo or not then I would say that if if it's deficient in a c let not go here Mr okay
I'll use my my legal expertise on that well then what if we okay what if we do this um I don't now I don't understand okay why you why you push back on that question because to me we can certainly
ask this this applicant to get a CO yes I agree with that okay that's a yeah that's sit that's different asking for the old one but that doesn't hold up the from going forward with well all depends but you know and that's what that that
was my point right right I have no problem with asking the applicant to get a new CO as a condition all right um okay so if if the if the request is that this is a similar operation then we have to look at what the use variant granted
and the use variant granted um the right to 18 cars okay um we're now talking about 50 cars so at what point does this board say oh 50 is 50 is the same um 60 is the same
um 70 is the same like what number where is it this board is going to say you haven't increased or expanded the use that the use variants granted and and I think though if we one looks at it logically I think there's two
parts to that one he's not seeking to expand the footprint of the building so if he's not seeking to expand the footprint of the building and he's not seeking to therefore extend the square footage in which cars will be parked I think that's a significant
factor two or you cut me down two I think the applicant had a reasonable explanation as to if he's got the 50 cars in there because he's got like Ferraris or he's got Bugatti or whatever the heck he's got there
probably some of the Chairman's cars whatever kind of far as he's got there the overall in and out which is the impact upon the neighbors upon the roads upon the municipalities if the overall in and out of the 50 luxury and
classic cars are being driven less than the 18 limos that are going out for weddings and Proms and you know the Chairman's dinners you know the overall impact doesn't sound as like it's more it
sounds as though it's less yes so I exactly Mr chair I'm not saying it has to be that way and I'm not saying that the board has to decide that it's the same or similar but I think that there is a testimonial basis that would
support that the board could make such a determination were the board persuaded by that testimony Mr chairman um based on the testimony that I've heard already and uh speak to Mr neat's Question um if it's
18 Vehicles now and these are all various sorts of luxury stretch limousines and SUV type um vehicles that are transporting uh apparently people to the Chairman's house in regular basis
um the footprint of those Vehicles is much larger than the type of vehicles that the applicant has has uh testified that would be in the facility and he also spoke about the differences in how he would arrange the parking um I if
it's not expanding the footprint of the building I I don't know that it's relevant yeah if they if they put on lifts inside they're not they I know I'm asking asking if you're asking if we're willing
to put a condition on that well I wasn't I was I was interested in where the board finds that even though I'm not changing the footprint of the building everything is being done in side what number does this board feel is too much I'm not sure there's a
number I feel it's about the impact to the neighboring houses businesses Etc so if the impact is equal or less that that would be how I would look at and if you were willing to stipulate that the typical limousine is probably two to three times larger than the vehicles
he's speaking about 18 time 3 is 54 so I I don't think what the applicant has said on its face is unreasonable obviously there's still more to discuss but I I think you're almost making an apples to oranges comparison I don't
Jim I don't think we should have a limit on the like amount of vehicles um that that uh you can have in that building that's a that's a business you
know that's your business um like I wouldn't have 70 of them but C you but if you wanted to prohibit lists yeah well even though yes we can right that's what I'm saying because even though this applicant is not asking for
that someone else could if he sells the building later to some other use that's highly similar but is not fancy cars the next guy might want lifts then you're putting more cars in and then you are putting more impact on the street so
obviously not a member of the board would definitely get behind the lifts yes um I agree the no would you be all right with like with as a condition no no lift will be installed at all uh sure okay thank you
um go ahead no I hope the board recognizes like when I ask questions like this okay it's it's to ensure that what we approve okay is limited to what we want and so I come on strong and I ask these questions but it's to make
sure that the applicant recognizes that um you know there is zoning I understand why Victor denied this denied this absolutely I wanted to um just say to the applicant um
um how do I face this the um the existence of of similar uses outside of this property you know really has no bearing on this at all because we're looking at this property this building so it wouldn't matter if there
were all residential uses next door we're looking at this use and this property so I just kind of wanted to mention that uh the other whatever else is in the area really doesn't have any impact on on my thinking and and I wanted to explain to you why I asked those questions because to me and I
understand all the questions that were asked um about because I can read the handwriting on the wall you know pretty easily and um that the lighting and all the other questions are legitimate and I'm glad they're all being asked and I want to ask you about ripping out the
asphalt in front of the building that is I was going to say something in regard to don't worry I I haven't missed it you Landscaping but um um you're here for you know really it it's it's uh to in my mind no nobody else may agree with this
but in my mind it's an expansion of a of a of a youth variance and so to me you may not agree but but to me hasn't been noticed not agree not it has not been noticed right
so if that actually your opinion you're entitled to that opinion but then we can't even hear it I understand and I I and I'm not putting it out there for you know for a board thought or board vote in my mind okay that's what it is you're thinking
maybe May I'm giving some conjecture and so um uh what was trying to say was that you know um I guess one was the fact that I don't want to repeat stuff um because now now I'm going off
uh once use variance is granted you know it's only supposed to be to you know whatever that use variance says and I just want to make sure that if we're going to Grant this that we have enough conditions enough statements in there that it doesn't go beyond what they're request and and that's that is one to let you
know that's why I as those questions of course Cy you add something to bill you want to take on me too you mentioned Landscaping there isn't a blade of grass on the property it's all asphalt um is
your use can your use in some way reduce the need for the asphalt in front of the building and improve the appearance of the building by ripping out some of that asphalt um it's a question that I don't know if I can answer just right now I obviously
I would have to have professional on architect kind of come and take a look and see how in a landscaping designer come and see well it would be a matter of what radiuses are needed for your car movement you know and if there are certain portions of that front yard that are an asphalt that are not needed for
your car movements well let's improve the Landscaping let's rip it out I think you can do it out yourself without hiring anybody but that that's your call well perhaps the condition can be then that he's willing to remove it as per the turn
radius as given by I mean if you really want to do it but I I I agree it's a hard thing to just go in right the asphalt because there has to be some amount of asphalt so it's hard
to say how much well um you know uh would you look into it yeah absolutely yes course you mentioned um that that you will be doing some uh Landscaping yes right now there
is no Landscaping my opinion you you would want the appearance of the building like you had mentioned to be aesthetically pleasing to some highend um to make customers so I assume that you would look to enhance the appearance
of the front of the building to make it look very professional very um artistic a little bit sure if you're going to have a $250,000 vehicle you would want want it not to want the building to
look the part so I would I would that I would leave that up to the applicant to to make that determination with the condition that they look that with the condition that they look into it yes to strike a good balance of Aesthetics as well as practicality right
so we want to also make sure that goes along with the writing as well that we discussed earlier I have one more question sure uh signs like I think there's there's a one sign yes on the
building right now you will be upgrading that sign absolutely would you be um will the sign be lit or no need for that um or you don't know it know it at
this time we we don't know at the time we follow the guidelines of the Town B okay if it if it is lit Maran I yes I was going to suggest it could be submitted as part of the lighting package that you do and and
if you have like even an architectural elevation showing where your lights are in the sign that would be benef we can I think we can do an elevation showing the front edge of the building with the sign Edge as well and other L along those same lines maybe you could you could also do a facade on the front and a
diagram what it's going to look like absolutely because I think that that's where the majority of the work is going to be is actually on exterior I assume that yeah the interior is going to be more security climate control protection Etc so yeah that's so basically we're looking at several items go to comply with the signed ordinance recognizing
that a sign that does not comply to sign ones would require separate variance relief right the prior resolution did have that as a condition as well well it's going to because I'll be one right in the resolution so if this were to be approved you can assume that there'll be not just a regurgitation on that one
there'll be a recitation of it I don't have any more questions can I say something I mean they already said that they're going to improve the appearance of the building it's you know one of their goals I mean highend Clan
tell uh to require them to rip out the the asphalt and plant grass you know you talking about turn races and stuff like that you know he needs to move maybe 10 cars out of the way to get a car out so what is he going to do with these cars he's gonna pull out front right correct
so you can't you know lock him into doing something that doesn't work for him that's all I had to say thank you I was just going to add to that the the safety of people being dropped off and picked up that you want to make sure place for them to pull off of the
street and so that's what I would ask that's what I would ask along with a writing package that that has to be approved by by the uh office I would ask that you you also present to Victor's office um a layout of of the uh of facade in the front in particular so you
get an idea of what it's going to look like and Steve bman you had a question is there going to be a trickle charger in there I'm I'm sure there's going to be a few what is I didn't hear he asked about a trickle charger for the to keep the for
the batteries cars are usually have a trickle charger yeah trickle trickle Char I said triple I battery I you know I've never been in4 chairman chairman I you know want to
make sure we understand where we are we have an applicant who is saying as Dave mentioned we're going to improve the front by Landscaping M we have another comment that was made well there is no Landscaping there and then we have an applicant saying he's not going to rip out in the asphalt so I'm kind of lost
where is this improved Landscaping going I didn't hear the applicant say that he's going but no his earlier statements he's going when he was making it the initial I think the word dissertation he's got he's the verify
that are in good shape the only Landscaping is in the public RightWay you know and um are they in great shape no they were live last time I looked at them okay and Bill I but I guess I guess what I'm trying to say is I don't know where we are with
Landscaping are we requiring any because we have statements saying we're going to improve the appearance then we have statement saying there is no Landscaping then we have statement saying we're going to improve land no the did member of the board said
there's no Landscaping out there now so hey whatever it is okay I I would just like to see a little less asphalt if possible out there and a little more green that'd be app appreciated yeah I think he did say he was going to be
looking into that wouldn't that be more basis than putting a stipulation he said it's very hard to stipulate the amount of ass to so I'm I'm looking at this as several of us are on Google Maps and I I see speaking to uh to David's Point
there's probably not a lot of places but if there was just to me it's a good good faith conversation of he's talking about improving the facade uh improving the lighting and signage and everything else um you know if there was anywhere that
we could be a little less impervious that would be great um but you also don't want to interfere with the gentleman's business model did but I also want to make sure he only uses his property and not the bir right away if you go down North and South Avenues
particularly when you start going into Cranford um if you're going well let's let's let's let's go the other way let's coming from Cranford into Garwood um Don might cut me off here the uh there's a I've tried for using there's an auto
there's an auto use on the right hand side okay and there are other Auto users in town that go far beyond their property with their uses in terms of the cars I'm going to go out on a Lim these cars will not be outside I
understand I understand that okay there are always exceptions and all that I'm saying is we mentioned about striping um perhaps it and people may laugh but perhaps if you can strike where your property actually is so that you don't
have cars beond that on a regular basis I disagree on that quite honestly um what I would like to do is I'd like to I'd like to shorten this up a little bit because I I think I think yeah I think we've discussed this uh to to a Grand Point um so with that
I'm going to ask um that we know the basic conditions Don do you have the basic conditions Dan first of all you have no other Witnesses is that correct Council and does anybody from the public wish to question the this witness in any way
seeing n we'll close this portion of the meeting and the public want to comment on this seeing n we'll close that portion of the meeting now at this time um any general commentary that we haven't discussed already from the board about this for this applicant personally
I'll start this off I think it's a it's a it's it's really probably going to be an attractive building um it's it's a a use that's going to be very quiet and very um U sedate I think in my opinion
um and I think it would given uh certain perspectives on lighting and on on the facade I think it would be a real benefit and a real um it's it would be a better look for our town as it as people
enter in and I'm into go so with that I'm that's my commentary I'll leave it over my commentary is I um um it's the um same uh use that it was
before that's what my that's that's my opinion and then that's based upon your testimony with the vehicles um so I'm okay thank you with it and Mr sh my commentary just beat it's a difficult building to lease um
and so you know it was difficult for the uh Limousine Service uh it was empty for a while before they moved in so um you know if the board were to approve this uh be glad to see someone in there particularly if they improve the property as hopefully will condition the approval um and we not have an empty
building great okay anyone else Steve walk in yeah I'm familiar with these uses because we have another house up on Cape Cod and I don't have a garage and I leave a car there yeah oh you're the guy with all the
cards it's a 20 it's a 20-y old Mini cop didn't cost $4 million so I I pick it up in June and I bring it back in September and I've never seen more than one employee have never seen another
car so I did see a car parked there it was a pretty incredible Porsche convertible uh waiting to be pulled inside so my car gets put inside put on the trickle charger and the next time it moves is in June yeah you know after the
winter so this is everything he's saying is triple charge thank you uh anyone else wish to comment from the board okay see one I'm going to ask for a a vote on this I'll given the conditions that uh Dar you
want to restate some of the conditions first of all I think it's a it's a motion to approve or Grant the appeal overriding Mr Vega's uh denial of this um and to the effect that as to the
effect that the proposed use is substantially similar enough to the present use that is covered by the existing use variants that'll be subject to the conditions that the applicant will be submitting a lighting plan uh subject to the review of Mr Vega's
office that the applicant will be um complying with each and every one of the conditions a through F set forth in the prior approval of April 28 20 and 10 specifically including but not
limited to compliance in every respect with the sign ordinance and Co they have to have I forgot and in addition to that making sure that the uh existing uh trees are in good condition
and compliant with the obligations set forth in the prior uh April 28th 2010 approval subject to the applicant being responsible to obtain uh a new CEO um
certificate of occupancy permitting uh this use pursuant to the approval that this board is now granting or may be granting in this uh motion so that's what I think in
addition um we had discussed was an architectural elevation yes showing the sign and location of lights and the material right and that that will be submitted to Mr vre's office for review along with the lighting plan thank you cor I'll make that motion oh and no and
no lifts for yeah absolutely no lift yeah and that has to be stated within that within that condition it be in the resolution okay great I'll make that motion I'll I hear a second okay uh rollot please mayor blumenstock I miss lysac I
councilman hi chair greet yes Miss vagio hi Mr nstead yes Mr Barkin yes Miss hay yes and Miss biano yes motion carries okay congratulations forward to appreciate it
to paring my cars here multiple cars by discount don't worry anticipated closing um probably in about three months okay I just want to know under I'm under pressure for the resolution because we want to get submit
all the the paperwork for the conditions that you guys have I'm gonna do it but I just wanted to know you're gonna tell me oh my closing is in two weeks I just want to know how much pressure I'm under that's fine thank you thank you okay thank you uh we'll take a quick um five
minute recess he he already done he's done abely he just walked in 15 minutes minutes that's why as soon as we saw him we were like okay it was it was okay when we were delaying because he wasn't here he was here okay
let's go I was getting nervous like something happen and he's not I mean honest I'm not really I said know I mean okay somebody's
our but am I looking to do now in Ministry Wills will cont like watch it's watching paint then you got sit there like like
you know so Victor's wrong again it's fine that's I want to explain clean okay well next on your listry it your neighbor if your cat buries it in your neighbor's backyard you better get out
there with SH what about when the St cat the dead birds and rabbits on your lawn as you don't feed them yeah after you said it to me and I saw your
email I actually Google search I'm proba I get that but I just man with his grandson Grandpa's going to jail like like I would take my kids when they were young W Park and
the I can't imagine that's what they meant but same thing if you get somebody wants to like that like you people pulling the street yeah this is a much better use than what's there one in my driveway orage or
whatever he's got a Car Gar so it's kind of fun this all these out of so Vince next thing you gonna do get the ebikes and E Scooters off the
sidewalks I have almost got hit three times now because they come up so quiet in fact tonight just walking scooter came flying up behind me and it was like it wasn't a kid so it's like sidewalk
and it's really dangerous they're flying down these folks we're gonna come back into a session now the most fun part is okay um Victor you wna give just a a quick update on some of the uh okay on papy and maybe on pedricks
I submitted uh full architectural plans construction documents to Cranford I signed off on those about two weeks ago so they have their building permits I think they're going to be starting any day okay great they probably waited till the weather broke a little bit but so everything's approved they Amed all the
conditions of the resolution so so uh they're good to go excellent okay and it's good that they got in when they did because D revised some of their requirements oh since they since the application yeah it's a good
thing that they made it in there so how about drix drix I stopped by there the other day um to talk to Adella the owner um she's gonna still go through with the single story building I don't think she's ever going to end up going
with the two-story building uh so I just stopped in there and chatted and she said that she's still going through I haven't seen the architecturals the problem is she did change Architects the first architect Greg waga she did she moved on from Mr
waga to another architect so I think that may be the hold up but she said that she you know she wants to build a new store because she has competition now the store down the street the new one in Westfield is giving her some competition so she wants some new there
uh again but all right my my question then is um with the resolution that we did like when she was just here six months ago or whatever you know she we gave her a time limit do we need to to
to well technically what was the time well technically unless we change the over there I think it was like 180 days I think it was 180 days well legally unless we change the Zone we're really not supposed to unless we change something in that zone okay you really
that that last approval is supposed to stay unless we change something so technically even though we do say 180 days I don't know if legally we can okay because normally when you make an approval even if the time lapsed unless we change the zone or made some
substantial change in that area that approval is R runs it doesn't it doesn't um really have a sunset period okay I just want to make sure that we wouldn't be you know like we said one
thing but you know yeah I I did talk to her um again she does want again she has good stiff competition down the road she wants a new building she wants some new life to the to the uh that corner over there I also received another as zoning
officer I received another application for a food truck across the street which I denied um the one at the ice cream shop so uh they wanted to do food and a food truck I'm like you know open the
facility first and then we can talk but I think we're going to have to write an ordinance prohibiting food trucks unless they come in here before the board we're kind of Silent on the issue right now with our ordinance it really doesn't go uh we you we do have a license to do
sell food on the street but that's a street vending license so Garwood does have that license I I informed the person if you want to do Street vending you can I mean uh according to I don't regulate that license it's done by the licensing uh Department in Garwood so I
think um I'm going to just write a blur real quick maybe we can approve that I think that would be good yeah just prohibiting uh secondary sale of food from food trucks on private property uh they can do for one day events maybe we can just say like a one
day event they have a grand opening or something they can do a one day event just like we do with temporary signage uh like a maybe two maybe two days like a weekend Saturday Sundays only onetime a license they can acquire but it's be but
make it strictly prohibited in Garwood unless they come before the board um because there's been food trucks on dri's property and on on South Avenue the food truck the food truck on on diet's property I did
sign off when we spoke with the board that was to really help the owner and we only said I think you gave Li time very limited I gave it six months yeah six months and it was Saturday and Sunday and they had it close by nine or 10 I
forget we made we uh we we spoke about it and when I approved the certificate it had a it did have a time frame and it did have a limited time for for o opening and they were pretty good about that also so okay but now if we get more of those I
think we should you know this board to think about just prohibiting and if we want to have it they have to come before the board show where they're going to do the food truck and make timelin yeah so Victor just my my one question is um when we're constructing the ordinance um
I don't want to inadvertently make it so someone who wants to have the scream truck come to their kids birthday party has to appear before the planning board no I mean that's something again this is a food truck I'm really going selling a food scream is really they don't they're not open to the general public you know
I know what it is yeah um we haven't had a problem with that yet I haven't had too many complaints people who do use those and again that's a one day event so I really and I think looking to make it so they don't have to come here and apply for a permit no for that for that particular thing also with the food
truck like when I had a a party one time at my house I used the food truck for one night and it it was very convenient parked on the street the garbage put the garbage C right next to it my wife didn't have to cook there's no cleaning so they are nice to have for parties I
mean a one day food truck is a nice thing but that's on the street so we really can't regulate that okay um as a as a as a zoning Bo I mean zoning board would you be able to do the ordinance yes it'll be simple
just prohib prohibiting food trucks in all zones um or we can because sometimes if you try to prohibit all zones it can be uh litigated against maybe what we do is proh permit in a retail Zone but you
have to come before the board okay but we won't I I think maybe I don't but sometimes if you prohibit it in all zones isn't that does not open us up for while you're just stifling but not really Don because still permitted in the in the roads so
it's not like we're saying you can't have a food truck in municipality you can get a license from the town you have to stay in the RightWay what if I want to put it on my driveway as opposed to the street in front of my house
that's this can be if if we we need to have a discussion on this this could be a discussion for another night yeah okay I I just want to make sure we're not inadvertently doing something more than we thought we were I agree seen that happen with ordinances before we could
also write the ordinance permitted for parties for for like again one day event parties food truck would be permitted on your and again before that ordinance would come before the the council it would come to us first so discussion on that yeah we draft it here we make a
recommendation to council to council I'm I can have all legal account yes okay Mr chairman it's interesting that we're going this route because um I wrote the ordinance for plane field permitting food trucks and so um might be something you want to
think about looking at before we just jump and prohibit them well that's why we're GNA have discussion on it in the future okay anything else Victor that's it okay thank you so much I appreciate no problem thank you all right Michael
Mr you Michael ready okay uh you want to give a little overview for the public U before we go in and just just uh well we have one public here uh just for an o two public just for uh an overview um we're going
to Mike Mike is going to uh present um for the general public uh bit about the about Cola and what's going on uh with our town uh but then we're going to go into executive session so I will kind of end the meeting um and allow for the
public commentary uh before we go into executive session and then we're going to just uh wind it up for the night so with that Michael would like to proceed uh thank you Mr chairman Michael mstr from Harbor Consultants um I serve as the Burrow's affordable housing planner
um I also served in that same position uh back in the third round when we put the put together the third round plan for the burrow um I'm working with the planning board and the burrow Council we're putting together uh the outline of a fourth round plan um I am going to go
through some various development proposals projects crediting and so forth tonight um an exact session it's not ready for the Public's yet um I'm still working on the document I can assure you that there will be a public
hearing before the planning board on the complete fourth round housing plan um that'll be before this planning board um by the new state law that was adopted amending the fair housing act the burrow is required all municipalities are
required in New Jersey to adopt their fourth round housing element and fair share plan no later than June 30th 2025 this June and then endorsed by the council afterwards um after the plan is end
adopted by the planning board and endorsed by the council it is sent down to the DCA Department of Community Affairs it's posted on our website it's also posted on the DCA website so it's available to everybody in the public uh
to review uh the document will be posted and made available to the public for public review uh prior to the planning board date I don't have a date for everybody tonight I'm sure the board chairman will
keep everybody up as we get closer I'm trying to get to that point but we're you know moving as quickly as we can um the burrow um as most people know the governor adopted the new uh affordable housing law or Fair Housing Act amending the Fair Housing Act last year and put
in place a series of deadlines very tight strict deadlines and as a burrow we have met every one of those deadlines our monitoring program our affordable housing trust fund program and prior to February 1st of this year um at our
recommendation discussion with the board the council adopted an ordinance accepting the fourth round uh number that was calculated by the Department of Community Affairs uh the fourth round obligation for our our town is 80 that's
our prospective need that's what we're trying to solve for and that's what will be outlined in detail in this housing plan that we will make available for public view at an upcoming planning board meeting I don't want to start
throwing out dates because I don't understood okay and um and with that there was only a differential between what your calculation came up with and what the affordable housing um calculation came with and that was one
unit correct that's correct and we we I think the bur did a tremendous job the bur councel the mayor the planning board everybody coming on board agreeing with that number adopting that resolution in time following that
resolution um every municipality that challenged that number or submitted a report with a lower number than what the DCA report um issued is now I think I I can only speak to my municipalities that
we represent but I'm pretty confident in this answer they're all they're all in litigation um in various forms of litigation uh some towns are every town I know is being litigated by the New Jersey Builders Association for the
reduced number and selected towns are also being litigated against by the fair share housing center so some of my towns only have one some of them have two we have zero we're not in that mode and we're focusing all of our time money
resources and efforts on focusing putting putting together the best plan that we can for the fourth round for our community and for those that are in litigation right now it's a that's a significant uh cost factor to the to the municipality that they're in am I right
I can only imagine yes okay all right well um thank you and with that um I'm going to open it up to the public uh for both commentary and I know that um Bruce does have something that he would like
to uh read uh from U from this commentary good evening jar good evening ladies and gentlemen of the board Bruce Patterson 325 Avenue um I'm just going to be read a commentary
on the affordable housing issue here in Gard um I watched the November planning board meeting in observation one Criterion discussed for calculating our round four obligations was the medium income per Mr Garwood noted to be
$107,000 as the medium income however note that in using this Criterion actually creates death spiral for gar uh just the two veras online increased our housing units another 400 units which was an increase of around 12
to 15% total gar with out units over 85% of these have rents ranging from $2500 up to $5,000 a month uh the residents obviously have large scale salaries to afford it and thus their salaries weighed heavily into our median income
in essence the round three high density complex we agreed to figures directly into our round four obligation uh this is considered a failed calculation meant to push more round po units upon us really should be question over 150 towns reviewed and
decreased their round for affordable housing unit obligation perm to Str that just mentioned it uh since the DCA noted in the original supposition that towns could come up with their own calculation recently the New Jersey Builder Association representing high density
developers now legally challenged these 150 towns trying to force them to build more high density projects and in my opinion this is ludicrous self serving action just to gain more profit uh back last year I did send documentation in from the New Jersey
Institute of local government attorneys good thank you which Mr Fraser may be aware uh to the governing body noting suggested calculations based on tracked reasonable growth of residential construction the last 10 years if this calculation held true that would have
put Garwood at a round four obligation 14 uh the council waved that suggestion uh just two questions a question number one and I'm going to make suggestions after this uh the planning board recommended 79 units in L of 80 at the governing body uh stuck
with the 80 did did the governor in body ever explain to you why they did not take the suggestion of 79 uh this could have saved us possibly building another five luxury unit and question number two there's also that 31 perspective a present need of affordable housing I'm
just wondering what's the status of that if any discussion has been done on that uh the suggestions uh to consider number one please don't even think about giving out Pilots this round or or maybe a fiveyear pilot is okay to get the
developers started financially but nothing of longer duration uh you probably never thought about it but I've been saying this Pilots also known as tax abens take all Financial control out of the town's hands and put it in the
hands of the developer and this a lot of times lasts 30 years uh this is not acceptable to do anymore uh number two was your homework from previous meeting the determined sites likely to be redeveloped my suggestion
is make the town single family zones to be all zone two family and set the condition that one of those units in the two family be a affordable unit that would increase the set aside from the past 15 to 20% ratio to a 50% set aside
if a developer say they have a hard time tell them you are giving them this great townwide opportunity and that since they are the developer they need to figure out how it works not us Westfield already zoned their whole town as an area in need of
Redevelopment and a reprehensible anomaly is found all those single family homes being built or demoed and being built larger around the area the builders are actually allowed to deduct any obligations to provide affordable housing
uh number three uh the future is here let's face it Bon North Jersey City is pushing out the lowincome families and Building 25 to 50 story luxury highrises that forces the ah obligations onto all the surrounding towns it's now
time that we should consider building five to six and larger story buildings in Garwin inclusive with affordable housing mandates not just the three to four story with the smaller Footprints created by the tall building we can achieve large swats of green
space for part in fact I mentioned this direction 10 years ago and a board member said the developers would have to use steel I was watching verela one being built and Russo did use steel it's time to allow the school district to have a seat in
the developmental committees moving forward presently it ends up all the money goes to the municipal end which they spend it away giving a pittance to the school district each year example one child from vermella cost the district $150,000 so they had to raise taxes to
cover that expense where instead the munen could have shared the pilot money to W set them I will email this to Adell uh to distribute for information and not for the record uh if you have any questions or want to discuss items further I can be reached at the contacts
above so thank you for allowing the latitude for a lengthy commentary on this serious overdevelopment issue we Face Statewide and just a final question if you can uh what's the on the executive session talked about potential litigation I'm
just wondering an overview of what that may be about thank you very much if you have any questions you can ask now just just one item that I picked up on and I I think you had a question and you said that uh um it the council U made the determination to go with uh 80 as
opposed to 79 well that came from the planning board and that was a unanimous decision from the planning board as a recommendation to the council no no we we came back and we re red that and came up with an 80 yeah
that's a clarification yeah I did have question what happened to the presid need of 31 I'm sorry what happened to the present need of 31 that the uh DCA came down with no we we are talking about 80 but there's also
another number 31 well that's what that has to do with credits that we have correct president need of 31 I believe he's referring to the Burrow's Rehabilitation obligation yes which would be addressed in the plan that we're putting together right now yeah that's that's that's what we're working
on right now down okay thank you very much thank you okay with that um I'm going to make a recommendation that we go into close session for discussion on particular um
Co Associated sites within our own uh own local um so do I hear a motion to go into close session so moved we'll hear a second all those in favor I okay uh we'll turn off the recording and we'll
turn off uh our Zoom will be uh will be provided at the end of this what was that I have oh I have claims no saying do you want to do them
before you go into said after ex sessions's making the point that you just told Bruce there'll be no acent to the session claims or actions but we don't have claims this I have you have I have twoa all right let's put it let's
do claims before we go into executive session and that will be Don that will be very important CL God's bills thank you okay one for 200 $2,980 um do I hear a
motion oh just I'll make a motion to favor I okay and the second one is for $529 that one's escrow that's escrow thank you
bar I spent some time with them