and then filing of said notice in the office of the municipal clerk. This is a regular scheduled meeting of the board. At this time, I'm going to ask for a moment of silence and a flag salute, please. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the
republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> Thank you. Adele, roll call, please. >> Mayor Blumentock here. Miss Lysac >> here. >> Councilman Carney.
>> Chair Greet >> here. >> Miss Vagio >> here. >> Mr. Nearstead is excused. Mr. Barkin >> here. >> Miss Haye >> here. >> Miss Biano >> here. >> And Mr. Buyers is excused. >> Okay. The minutes were uh sent out and
uh we have copies available. Um if everyone has had an opportunity to review them or if you need some time, let me know. Um otherwise, I'll ask for a motion to approve the minutes. make that motion to approve the measure. >> Those in favor? I opposed. Hearing none.
Motion carries. Okay. We have two resolutions tonight. Um both of them for granting of a non a non a certificate of nonconformity. Um the first one is for 36 unit in the garden department in an RA zone. It's case PB25-04.
And again, that was sent out uh via email uh several hours ago if you had an opportunity to read it. Um if not, uh you can take some minutes if uh if you need. Um >> I read it online. I'll make a motion.
>> Okay, I hear a motion. Do I hear a second? >> Roll call, please. Miss Lysac, >> I Miss Vagio. >> I Miss Haye, >> hi. >> Miss Biano, >> I >> Mayor Blumenste.
>> Councilman Carney. >> Hi. >> And Chair Greet, >> I. >> Okay. Uh, motion carries. And with that, uh, we'll move on to, uh, 59 Willow. And again, that's a certificate of nonconformity. Um, the email was sent out several hours ago. if you had an
opportunity to have read it. Um, I'll ask for a motion. >> Uh, I'll make the motion. >> I'm sorry. Oh, Vincent. Uh, Barney. >> Yes. >> Okay. Um, do I hear a second? >> Second. >> All those in favor? Um, roll call, please.
>> Miss Lysac, >> I. >> Miss Vagio, >> I. >> Miss Haye, I. >> Miss Biano, I. >> Mayor Blumentock. I, Councilman Carney. Hi. And Chair Greet. Hi. Okay, we have some old business. Um
follow up on status update on proposed new ordinances. Um and the one ordinance we had two um two recommended to go to Harbor Freight to develop an ordinance. Um this
>> I'm sorry Freight. Thank you. um department of consultants and uh the second one we decided that we would have a committee established to uh take a look at food truck uh vending um and
with that I'm going to ask um I'm going to ask Kathy Valagio if she would mind being on that. >> Sure. >> And um Bill Mat um I've already um asked him about it and uh he was willing to do that. Um, would anyone else be want to
be on that committee? >> And this is to work on the the food truck ordinance. >> Yes. >> Okay. >> I'd be happy to be on it. >> Steve Barkan, uh, Katya. Yep. >> Oh, okay. Katio would like to be on that. >> Yeah, we'll have four. Steve and Katia
and, uh, Kathy Vagio and Bill Nest. And with that, I appreciate that. Thank you. Um, new business, the timeline for upcoming applications. Uh, Jen, would you like to open something up? >> Um, yes. Uh, you want me to talk about
the circulation element real quick? >> Yeah, we can do that. Um so as everybody knows the council has um directed uh Harbor they Harbor has uh
gotten the the proposal for um putting together a circulation element for Garwood. Um at this point Gabe who's going to be working on it has asked for a committee to um work alongside him.
Um, and that committee uh would also include Chief Pridey. Um, and so I would like to um ask and would also include myself. And so I would like to ask Chair Greet um Kathy and Bill to be a part of
it. uh if you would like to and we are I am looking to get um a couple of residents outside of the planning board just to have a a sort of a general population resident to be a part of it. >> Um
>> and I have I have someone idea and I have someone on in mind that I already approached uh mayor the mayor with um and that's uh that's Craig McCarrick >> uh who I think would be a real asset to this committee. He's uh he's been a long-term resident. Um he's been
involved with the uh with the town for for many years in various aspects. Um he was prior he was on the planning board at one time. So um I'm going to ask that he also be put on that. And I have the possibility of another resident, but I don't want to speak um about any names right now.
>> Right. Um and so at this point what they would like to do is uh Gable send around some dates to begin a couple of meetings with him and then he is also at this point gathering data with the police department. So working very close to get um their crash data, their speed data uh
and some of that uh data from the new software that we've spoken about at council um that can that's helping our police department look at speeds at different on different streets in the burrow and at different intersections. So all of that will be really helpful to the circulation element. Um and so we're
we're beginning. It's getting there. So um I thank you uh for joining. Uh I appreciate it and um we will be in touch. Gabe will be in touch with some dates to to begin the process. >> Very good. Yeah. Now, I have a I have a little note from uh from Gabe and um
basically it um it entails what what he's looking to do and uh >> he's he's checking to see if the subcommittee is formed, which it was now. Um he's working on some of the background information for the plan. Um and he's ready uh to have a subcommittee
meeting. Uh he envisions two subcommittee meetings. The first meeting is to introduce the plan and the components of it. Learn more about the improvements, the issues, and the concerns and begin to discuss the goals and objectives. Second meeting will be to review a draft of the plan before
presenting it to the planning board. Um, and he did reach out to the police department as well after he uh made a request through Jen and myself um to have uh the chief um be a part of this uh committee that we just established. >> And I I just Oh, I'm sorry. >> Sure. No, go ahead. No, I just wanted to
let uh the public know I actually also met with various groups of stakeholders. I did report this at the last council meeting. Um but for your benefit as well, I I've met with our citizens advisory panel. I've met with the fire department. I met with the board of
education. Uh a couple of board of education members including the superintendent. Um and I'm missing a few others, but I did meet with various groups of stakeholders too. Um, I think I said first aid squad if I didn't
mention them to see where they wanted some focus to see some of their concerns on different areas of the town to see where they're seeing things um, you know, with the board of ed what they might want in uh, investigated around
the school uh, in terms of our first responders, things that might uh, pop out to them as they're on calls. uh my citizens advisory panel uh was very good because we have people who live on all sides of the town including Vermela and uh north side. So uh they were able to
give some perspective and I compiled all of their feedback and I have turned that over to Gabe. So um that will be a part of some of the things that they're looking at. So, um, so I just want everybody to know that not only will the the committees, uh, input, uh, be a part
of this, but a lot of our stakeholder groups in the town have already, uh, provided input. >> Um, I have a question. Have you spoke with the senior club? >> You know what? I reached out to George and he never got back to me. So, I'm going to to talk to him. That would be a
good >> Yes. >> feedback from them, >> you know, also, you know. Yes. And and >> you guys meet all the time. >> Correct. Correct. >> Oh, I'm sorry. >> And uh I will follow up again with George so that we can take care of that. He's the president of the senior club.
>> Is this also going to uh look at the e scooters that he bites on the sidewalks? >> You know what? That's a good question we can put towards Gabe. To be honest, there's not a lot of data right now because they're so new. So it's um you know because I know that Gabe is looking
for data over the past 10 years and those really this past year are or what we have but so they should have some the police department should have some data but at the same time we can take a look at some of the other towns and what they're doing um and see what
recommendations Harbor might have for that. Um I I have serious I mean I personally >> I was totally >> early in the morning going to get like the train or the bus >> they they're very quiet so you can hear
them approaching and um they're going very fast and especially like if you're going under the tracks the police have been enforcing that. I would wanted to say we've talked about this at council meetings >> and I we have it in in front of the police committee. Um
we're we we've looked at what a few of the surrounding towns have done and there's some there's some model um ordinances. Um but this is really something that requires a change to uh title 39. Uh but the specifics of like it's already
illegal to operate them on a sidewalk, >> right? Um, so you can actually call that in and uh in my conversations with Chief Pridey, he was asking if we can get residents to actually call in uh when they have an encounter on the sidewalk just so we can track it as he's trying
to establish the data points he needs. Um, you know, and that'll also help us with, you know, potentially moving legislation at the state level uh to address this, you know, when they're when they're back in session after election season. >> Yeah. I I've said the problem with this
sort of thing is that um you having different ordinances in the towns that are right next to each other is not very to my not that it's not helpful. Anything is helpful, but it's it's very difficult. I mean, they're coming through Garwood, right? Let's be honest, a lot of it is coming through Garwood to
Westfield and Cranford. Um, so we want to make sure a to work with those towns when crafting something, but b please um push your legislature to bring it to the state so that way everything is uniform. That's the best way to go about it. But
in the med, you know, interim, uh, our police are obviously very aware and are doing what they can. It is hard because they're so fast >> and they're just >> it's just how do you how do you you know >> especially >> how do you get them when but they have I
will say there have been instances where they have ticketed ebikers. Um so it's just not as often as you would like because they're harder to catch >> and it's new. I mean I I understand technology they seem to be getting
>> Yeah. And I do think the state will take some control at some point just because it is so got to be a licensing process somewhere along the line because insanity the problem is that the the slower ones the kids are learning on YouTube how to and and adults are learning on YouTube how to make them
faster without buying the fast ones you can like adjust them so >> you're going to see something with like a strict liability to uh the points of sale or the points of manufacturer because um it they're so easy to modify. So, by looking at them, you can kind of
tell what class they are, but that doesn't mean anything other than how it was put together in the first place. A lot of them that are only supposed to go a few miles hour, you can essentially hack them. >> And there's really no way to tell that just by eyeballing it until it zips past you at like
>> 30 m an hour. And then you know you're putting the police in a in a predicament of you can create greater risks to public safety trying to if picture the person doesn't want to stop who's doing that. So, um, addressing it at the at
the state level with those classifications and requiring insurance, uh, and holding liability on the points of sale or the points of manufacturer is probably going to be the only way we can put a stop to to what you're seeing because it's really new technology and like with a lot of things, it takes a
while for the law to catch up. Um, so I had the same concern and so did our chief and and discussing this at council about having like a patchwork of a bunch of local ordinances. Like we can try to craft it as close as we can to the other municipalities, but if the rules are
different in every town, you know, it doesn't it doesn't really help the police do their job. Uh, and it's it's going to be difficult to enforce without uniformity. >> Yeah, there are certain things that we can do that we're looking at. I know like certain towns like Clark has banned them at schools and parks and you know
our county has banned them at the park. So yeah, we we don't really have that but we can like that's the thing. We're so small we don't have some of the areas that they're talking about but >> there are certain things that we're looking at in the committee. Yeah, >> Steve,
>> there's no circulation element now. >> No, >> I don't believe so. in the master plan. The master plan requires really has mandates that you have a circulation plan. >> It was time. >> It was time and I think development
was the impetus. I mean we have we have new construction that creates an an entirely new environment as far as you know the the congestion and the number of vehicles and uh even the flow patterns that we need to we need to address. >> Yeah. I I you know it's always about
funding as well and so um I'm happy that we were able uh as a council to get the funding in place this year. Um and there are more elements of our master plan that we will need to do that we don't have. So I'm hoping as we move along we
can continue this and get you know those funded as well maybe next year year after. >> What's the funding >> improvement? I'm sorry. >> The funding is just for uh putting together the circulation element. So for
harbor consultants as we went out >> and um for writing it and putting it together then of course yeah there's going to be recommendations that they will have to prioritize as a council to see what changes are made. I encountered
a um one of those bikes in Westfield months ago. Um and right on the sidewalk >> down and then >> a couple of them and then they came back and I said, "You're not supposed to be on the sidewalk." He said, "Oh yeah, we
asked a cop and he said it was pile." >> Yeah. The hard part is the hard part is South and North Avenue because they're and I understand it. they're worried about, you know, being on those very busy streets and so they tend to go on the sidewalk on South and North Avenue.
It's a little bit vague in the code in in the state code as they're allowed to if it's dangerous, what what is dangerous and what do you you know? So, it's an interesting I mean, I find it very interesting to figure all this out,
but we'll do our both. I I do believe that, you know, the county is also doing a similar uh study countywide. Uh they signed on to the uh vision zero initiative. Um so
I would expect at some point if if this becomes such a popular mode of transportation even with additional regulation. Um I mean they're going to have to look at how the roads are designed. >> Um you know these are primarily designed to move motor vehicles, right? Um,
if if it trends away from that for some reason, then it to me it becomes a design issue uh before even putting policy ahead of of of designing for how that it's being used now might might not work out. You're just going to be doing policy over and over. like if there's
going to be some kind of an evolution here of of means of transport like you know uh I'm sure what 100 years ago they were having discussions about switching roadways from horse and buggy to to the Model T right um I don't know if this is
that or not but it could be right >> well in in New York it's bicycles >> it's New York different animals let me tell you I drive in New York it's insanity It's insanity.
>> It comes back to >> they're on scooters >> that it's it's just a general absurd. >> We see it with drivers of motor vehicles, too. There's a general lack of respect for that. Like you're operating in a society, right? And there's other people. And especially the the electric
cars are the same way. They're so quiet. Like I think that's one of the reasons why you see more pedestrian strikes in this area. There's a lot of electric vehicles >> and you don't hear it to get out of the way. Yeah, but you know what with electric vehicles, I mean, you have a licensing
program and a whole I'm sorry, Steve, I was singling out. >> Uh, okay. Um, >> is it okay to move on to paper? >> Absolutely. Okay. Yes. >> I wanted to give everybody an update. I will also provide it at the council
meeting tomorrow. I have been giving them at council meetings. Um, as everybody knows, um, Garden Homes, even though they presented and originally approved of the fourth round plan for the paperboard property, they
were the ones that brought it to us. They decided to challenge the burrow, um, saying that it's not financially feasible. Now, uh, we have had two pre-settlement meetings with Garden Homes and the adjudicators assigned to the case, and then we had one recently
that was just Garwood and the adjudicator. Um, basically, Garden Homes is asking for a density at 60 units an acre rather than what is currently in the plan that they asked for at 40 units an acre. So, quite a big difference. uh
and they're saying it's it's rising interest costs, increased constru construction costs, but uh really what it comes down to I believe uh they've provided a basic very basic proform.
It's very vague uh very difficult to see where they got their numbers. That is what they have provided to us. But what you can see in there is that they believe um we should be responsible for their carrying costs over these seven
years even though we agreed to a plan in 2018 uh financial plan in 2018 and a site plan in 2022. Um so that is really the crux of where they are coming out with their financials. I
believe it if it's not resolved in a settlement then uh the Union County Mount Laurel judge will al ultimately make a decision. We've retained a financial firm uh to analyze the financials the very limited financials provided by
Garden Homes uh and we'll continue to work with them to defend the position. Obviously uh I do not feel the Garwood should be penalized for their lack of construction over these past seven years and we shouldn't be burdened with those costs
but that is that is their uh belief at this point. Um they also have not submitted a concept plan with the requested density though they have been asked again to provide it so that we can evaluate it. We will see where we are with that. And um you know, I've made no
bones about the fact and I've said it in our meetings uh with the adjudicators and the judge that I think this was a manipulation of the process. I an agreement that was fine in June and suddenly not okay in August is quite telling to me. So uh we have put forth
our case. We will continue to uh defend it and we have another meeting scheduled in November and I I will remain hopeful that a judge will uh see the validity of our arguments and we'll continue to update everybody.
It's just a really unfortunate situation because Garwood has done everything right >> for all of these years. We believe in affordable housing and we have done our best to provide it and we're continuing to do that and uh this new process it it
was new to everybody and I I do believe that it was just um it was used and I don't think it was meant for situations like this. I think it was meant for situations where towns are not providing affordable housing and are fighting back and we have worked very hard with these
developers to provide it. And to your knowledge, that's the only the only um challenge to this has been uh garden homes. >> Well, we do have a challenge from Fair Share. >> Um they have basically challenged almost every municipality across the board.
It's not it's a little different. They basically just want to ensure that we're going to follow through and see what we have done and what we intend to do. A lot of what they want to see was things that we were going to be doing from after January in the new year providing
different ordinances to uh for zoning and things like that. So we are essentially my view is we are a um meeting fair share's uh requests as of now and we will continue to meet them.
So I don't anticipate anything. A lot of what we need to do with uh to meet fair share's request, however, does rely on this piece of our plan and what happens with paperboard. So, we're kind of in a holding pattern with fair share until we can figure this out,
>> right? >> Does that make sense? >> Yeah, absolutely. Um, mayor, is it possible if we receive a copy o of that um complaint or whatever that was submitted by um hones?
>> Yes, everything's online. Um, it is it's open to the public and online. Um, but I can get it for you if you'd like and send I can we can send it to Adele to send around. >> Thank you. >> Mhm. Okay. Um, >> the Burough's website.
>> It's not on the burrow's website. Um, but it is an open public document. So, >> okay. Thank you. >> Anyone from the board have anything to uh discuss or to add or question?
>> They filed a formal challenge to our >> paper board. Yes. >> Yes. >> After all of almost two years of working with them on that plan. Yes. >> What else? >> It was it was essentially we did not
move forward quick enough for them even though they were informed that it would come before the council in September. They decided in June that that was not fast enough. >> What is it that was going to come? >> The the actual redevelopment plan was
going to come before the council in >> September for a vote. much. >> They they were insistent on it happening May, June, and it was just a timing situation and we we explained that that we were putting in our full plan and
working on that with our part-time planner and it was who also does, you know, 25 other towns and it was just a timing issue that everybody was very, you know, ready to go that we were putting it as a part of our plan and so
that should show our commitment to it. But um >> your expression is the same as mine first time. >> Your expression is nicer than mine is when I'm in the meetings with with them. >> Does the complaint say they should have a bigger share? >> The complaint says now that it is not
financially feasible. However, it was in my view they were asking us to bring it to council in May and June. So I don't feel that they were doing us a favor in May and June. Suddenly it's not financially fe
feasible. >> In my in my opinion, developers don't do favors. >> They it we're certainly making them what they wanted before that. >> Are they asking for a bigger share? >> Yeah. They wanted 20 um 20
>> They're asking for a density 20 units more than what we have. >> So per acre. So, we're at 40 units an acre and they want 60 units an acre. >> What does that translate to for that? >> Yeah, it it translates to 272
apartments >> instead of >> as opposed to um what were we at? >> Yeah. Yeah. It's I don't listen I'm not a planner but it will be looked at by our planners to see I I don't see how it
it's good planning in that space but that will be something our our planners defend >> and they haven't given you a plan to show how they would >> not at this point >> build them >> not at this point >> not even the concept of a plan
>> n was there a lawyer in househ save. Anything else? >> It's Yeah, it's it's baffling to me. It's angering. It's baffling and we will keep fighting. >> Truly, >> we we have worked very hard to be
compromising with developers and at some point, you know, I don't like to do litigation. Obviously, it costs our burough money and so if it were litigation that I didn't feel we could win or litigation. We haven't. I mean, through this whole
You've all been here throughout all of the through the third round and we worked very hard to compromise because we don't want to be wasteful of our residents money and litigation, >> but I feel like we need to continue to
stay the course on this one because we compromised a good deal for this. explain with the long delays, years and years. >> There were several >> cleanup >> excuses over the years it changed
>> but in the end that was their decision. >> Anyone else have any uh any questions of the board from the board comments any anything you want to discuss at this point in time? Okay, seeing none what I will do is I will open it up to the general public. Anybody from the uh
audience wish to weigh in on anything? Okay. Well, thank you. Um in that case, I signed off for two bills. Uh so that's uh again vote for paper board and for harbor consultants through paperboard. Um and that was uh underbrow
and uh we're up for a German. Um do I hear a motion? >> I'll make a motion to >> second. All those in favor? >> I opposed. Motion carries. We're journed. Thank you very much. >> Was honored, >> Glenn? Glenn. Yes.
>> Thanks. >> Yeah, he did. >> He did the kid for >> Yeah. Point. >> Wow. >> That was a good application. >> That was a good application. >> That was very good.