##VIDEO ID:2WBUNdeLZ4U## [Music] [Music] br good evening please rise for the Pledge of Allegiance I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible liy and justice for all [Music] good evening this special meeting of the township council is being held in accordance with the schedule of the meetings of the township Council establish and adopted by Township Council which schedules as a time and date and place of this meeting adequate public notice of this meeting has been provided pursuing to the provisions of the open public meetings act we're using electronic amplifying recording device in order to obtain a clear and audable record and request all those wishing to speak and recognize and state your name and address directly to the microphone let recording device be Solly utilized by the township clerk's office for the preparation of the minutes and shall be the official record of the township Council meetings Madam Parkman of the roll call please Mr here Mrs Al she is on vacation Mrs Grace love she is on vacation Mr Nash here Mrs Walters here W here Mr Mar pres Mr car here Mr ctis he's on vacation thank you we're joined by Mrs Eric our CFO and Mrs saror will be joining us who's our special counsel that will sit next to Mr [Music] carer for those who are new to our meeting and those that are watching uh from home There Are Rules of Order for our council meeting if you're not familiar with them they're on the bulletin board there please be respectful of every speaker that speaks there's no Pro profanity please no Outburst from the audience and shouting from uh the audience everyone tonight will have an opportunity to speak it is unlimited this public hearing uh so each speaker will be entitled to five minutes once each speaker has spoken uh and a speaker would like to speak again they would raise their hand and allow them to speak again uh tonight is a special meeting with only one item on the agenda and that's public hearing on ordinance 0 - 24-17 this ordinance is to approve an agreement of sale between the township and New Jersey American water for the sale of the sewer utility for $143 million and authorizing the proposal to be printed on the November 5th 2024 ballot for consideration by the residents of bler Township for residents that have not attended prior meetings and for the benefit of those are watching on live stream I'm going to provide the timeline and highlights of the bid the propos agreement and tonight's ordinance in March of 2024 lost Township Council retained the services of Mrs Megan Sor of Hawkins Delafield and wood to assist in the exploring the possibility of selling the sewer utility the gler township mua was dissolved in 2023 and was folded into the township as a utility the sewer department the township requested excuse me submitted its request for bids to the state controller's office for the review the state controller's office determined that the township was able to advertise for an RFB request for bids with a July 2nd due date on July 2nd two bids were received and were open here in council chambers the two biders were New Jersey American water and aqua New Jersey aqua's bid was opened first and that bid was $52 million New Jersey American Waters bid was then open and their bid was $43 million our legal council on this matter Miss Sartor reviewed the bids that afternoon for completion and reported to Tom Caris the business administrator Mr car May the township solicitor and myself that New Jersey American Water was the highest responsible bidder on July 8th at our council meeting a bid report was voted on by the members of council accepting the two bids that were submitted in response to the request for bids exploring the sale of the sewer utility additionally the introduction and first reading of an ordinance to enter into agreement with the highest and most responsible bidder that responded to the Township's request for bids for the SE utility was on the agenda this ordinance was to proove an agreement of sale between the township and New Jersey American water for the sale of the sewer utility for $143 million and authorizing the proposal to be printed on the November 5th ballot for consideration by the residents of gler Township the ordinance was approved on July 8th and to tonight's meeting for a second reading and a public hearing the bids that were submitted by Aqua New Jersey and New Jersey American water are on the Township's website for residents to view in addition to that the draft agreement of sale which has been signed off by our legal counil and also New Jersey American Waters legal council that is also listed on the Township's website the highlights of the bid the bid was submitted by New Jersey American Water for $143 million if the voters agreed to the sale all debt must be paid off by the township first there is a $200,000 uh $200,000 will be payable to the township for transactions related to the sale of the utility for instance the retaining the law firm of Hawkin Del field and wood there would be $90 million in total Capital Improvements to the system within the first 10 years 55 million of that within the first seven years the first two years after the sale rates will not be raised and the most it can be raised over the next three years is 9% in total not compounded there was a question brought up by a resident that it was compounded New Jersey American Water clarified in writing that it is not compounded any rate increases have to be approved by New Jersey Board of Public Utilities New Jersey American water is offering employment up to 23 existing employees of the sewer utilities those employees will receive equal or better pay and employment within the vicinity of Gloucester Township this is for the Wastewater system sewer only the recycling aspect remains with the township under the MUA and currently uh with the sewer utility there is a senior and disabled citizens discount that has offered $11.50 per quarter a 25% discount rate payers over 65 that meet the salary requirement of not exceeding 10 $1,000 in income earnings excluding Social Security will continue to receive this discount those that are in that program will remain in that program uh in addition cleanouts residents are responsible for their curve to their residents however it came to the attention of it came to our attention that cleanouts were being performed by the MUA and currently the utility at no cost to the residents we will continue to provide that service to Residents to our public works department we will now open up the public portion how we'll go about this we're going to start on this side of the room from the first aisle going back sneak around from the back into the front yes [Music] sir please state your name and addresses in the microphone David leader 11 5 Huntington Avenue glendor um I notice that the mayor is not here if the mayor stands to benefit financially after the sale goes through as the government lay aison to townships and other government agencies that's a conflict of interest I'd like to see him here to say that I will not get any benefit from the sale of the sewer Division I didn't see uh Gabriel SCA here she is currently the director of the sewer utility someone who probably has as much knowledge about what we're talking about today as anyone in this room however she's not present I see that as a major oversight in your planning and I didn't see any revised documentation regarding the non-c compounding of the interest on the website I it's not that Mr leader I have a document uh that was provided by New Jersey American water that is not compounded if anyone like a copy of that we would present that to anyone who wants it I don't have it here but we did receive that and our legal council did receive that from American Water I'd rather not receive it I'd rather see it publicly on the website okay thank you thank you anyone else on this this side that would like to speak yes ma'am I'm sorry and I apologize for pointing my finger folks good evening um in this have your name and address please sorry I problem G Mar St 1617 Fairhill place clemon okay so in this in this agreement it states that the first two years they are not going to increase our rates but they are switching to monthly billing yes are they going to confirm that our monthly billing should be around $15 a month are they going to continue to Bill $46 it will be a monthly billing oh $46 no a monthly billing they would they would I would imagine break it up to $15 okay so then the first 5% increase in two years will be that 184 times 1.05% yes and then 2% or whatever up to 9% on top not compounded so that 2% will be going back to original 184 so and that is laid out in detail that the monthly will not be the 46 a month that 185 is the rate that we all pay for the first two years and then the increase goes above that 184 a year that's correct $46,000 is not going be in your monthly account for those individuals that do not have um for those that have American water so you'll have your sewer bill on top of the American Water for those that are that are Aqua res that receive aqua water they're just going to receive a billing for uh the sewer utility okay will they detail that in the contract or in their in will they clarify that in writing that 184 for the first two years 5% on top of that and then that's in their bid and also in our draft agreement they didn't put an amount they just said the it won't increase but it'll change the monthly they didn't state that the yearly amount is 184 for some of us pay it all one time okay so that should be stated in right what we are paying currently is that something Mr we can so currently the rate ordinance is an exhib the agreement which has that the the rate the current rate ordinance is is an exhibit to the agreement and so that includes what you're paying right now um so there is that Baseline and is that available on the website with the contract it's with the contract yes okay thank you thank you one thing that we change start just to add the I believe it's 184 that you pay per year yes so that's quarterly correct yes so one thing that will change is when New Jersey if New Jersey purchases the system they will they propose to change to a monthly bill so they should aggregate that 184 divided by 12 now change is there anyone before Mr X Sir with a shirt before that means I jumped ahead and did not read the orance but you'll be up Sir with the American flag okay um ordinance 0-24 d17 or to the township of bler in the county of C New Jersey approv an agreement of sale between the township and New Jersey American Water Company for the sale of the Township's Wastewater collection and conveyance system and authorizing the proposed to be printed on the ballot for consideration by the voters within the township at the general election on November 5th 2024 providing for the sale of the Township's Wastewater system to New Jersey American Water now sir I'm sorry good evening Timothy rodic 96 aine Drive in aiel 27e Resident good evening um if it ain't broke don't fix it simple as that it it doesn't get any because you're not this is not going to benefit the taxpayers your constituents people that you work for this has no benefit to us period 27 years as a resident no problems now all of a sudden we got this Grandeur idea watch your spending cut spending keep it going it's going great leave it big thank you okay thank you anyone else on the rose here okay uh Miss hry [Music] good evening Dena Hendry Summerdale a couple uh clarifying questions in the agreement it says that uh 20 something mua employees team members would keep uh their jobs is there a time limit or is like a guarantee that it's a threeyear or fiveyear contract it indicates that up to 23 existing employees will be offered employment uh for up to 6 months uh um well it'll be based on performance those that if you're working for American water and I imagine if you continue to do a good job um they will most likely retain those individuals okay so but yet we don't have a magic a ball to say all 23 would be employed past six months no I don't have a magic eightball okay the other question I also have is you stated that if if there was a backup from the curb to the street Public Works would take care of that that's correct cleanup yes are they aware of such things those cleanouts well they're they're being performed right now but the MUA is doing that so the sewer utility yes so there will be individuals that will be working in public works that will perform those cleanouts so how many total team members are in this sewer utility uh do you have that Chris Miss well there's 23 that are listed 23 in the SE side okay so those 23 individuals would be employed by American Water correct employment will be offered up to 23 employees okay and if there is a backup from the curb to the street then you said Public Works would take care of it but not our members that are employed with American water so that's what I'm asking the public works members that would take care of it would they be qualified and do they know that they would have additional responsibilities there was a likelihood Miss Henry that individuals that work for the sewer of utility will move over to Public Works and do have that capability American water is not going to be doing cleanouts okay the other question I have is when the desire to sell there was questions about did the sewer utility team members know about this desire and it wasn't have they had a meeting um about the intentions of what could happen um if this goes through I don't know if the administration had a meeting with them as counsil we did not meet with them can anybody from the administration confirm because I believe one of the team members requested multiple times and I had you know expressed that there should be a meeting um and up until now there hasn't been a meeting from my understanding so how can the the USU utility team members understand what's going on if there is no communication I mean transparency is a beautiful thing and it should be that you guys and the mayor and whoever has a meeting with the sewer utility team members to let them know saying hey this could be an a a probability I'll provide that L thoughts to Mr cars and Miss moscara okay and then the other question I had was last year in May of 23 when we had the meeting knowing that it was going to be dissolved it was specifically state that the dissolvement was polar opposite of the desire of private sentation what happened from May until the meeting that we had where you guys had the desire like who came up with idea how did how did this idea like transform so the comment about uh back in May um who made that comment um I believe I mean I wrote it I mean that was going to be my next question uh councilman Hutchinson stated that the dis the solution is directly the opposite of privation of the mui okay so after the uh in late November and December Mr Carter approached me and indicated to me about the possibility of exploring the sale of the sewer utility we wanted to see what the value of it was and that's how we began the process was there a workshop about it no so it was after election when you guys ran saying that you merged uh services to save the taxpayer's money that's when the idea came no it was in uh late November and December which is after the election so in late November December Mr cars approached me and had a conversation said let's explore the possibilities and you were like that's awesome let's go for it I'll go back that's okay I let's find out the value thank you anyone else on this it Mr [Music] [Music] X IR X Stein I apologize Mr Xin good evening um the question was asked about the rate it's going to stay the same for the first two years there going to be anything added to that because when I get my water bill there's another1 to15 tacked on to it for delivery and stuff like that true okay I Mr is there anything not to my knowledge it's the they're adopting the rate that you're currently being charged so if your bill every quarter is $46 per quarter including everything then that's what that's what it will be for the next two to years is there a way to get clarification that there's not any delivery charges yes we can clarify we can get we get a copy of a of a bill I mean because I look at I look at my water bill and there's extra charges you know just it's just like uh you know if you got a Comcast bill where the mayor used to work there's 98 different charges extra on it okay so we provide a sample fill all right um originally when when when the township decided to take over the MUA whose idea was that to dissolve it to dissolve that was a conversation uh through from the administration who Administration mayor's office Mr cartis so is the mayor involved in that well the entire Township was involved with it uh also we received a resolution from the MUA Commissioners also agreeing to Thea the MUA well the mayor was involved with the uh dissolving the MUA but now he's not involved in the of it he cannot be involved in it but he can be involved in because it just seems like there's no can we please not have sh from the audience please please continue sir the I don't know it just seems like a conflict of interest where all of a sudden sudden I got to believe that when this whole thing came up to dissolve the MUA there were two things that were that were looked at one you wanted the $6 million excess Surplus whatever you want to call it two once you got that now it's time to sell so where did $6 million go back to Mr Xin it went back into tax relief I'm sorry there was there was a decrease last year in your taxes and this year was 4 cents okay so so when you say that's where the $6 million went and there still miss uh there is rough three million remaining yes correct thank you so if there's $2 million remaining why didn't million 3 million why do we get it why we get it back why why didn't you decrease our taxes more than 4 cents well there's going to be an opportunity to decrease our decrease our taxes if we move forward with this sale how much I can't provide a dollar amount of what that would be what I don't put a budget together that comes from the administration but this if the possible sale goes through there's elimination of all debt and the elimination of $9 million in debt service that takes place annually $9 million of Debt Service created okay and who enjoys the that those Services what services no Services No I said what services what services so if there Street and sidewalks that are being repaired if there's Capital Improvement projects if there's Recreation for our children if there's a senior citizen bus if if if our citizens will be protected by our Police Department if we have public works that's picking up uh things who are taking care of our town and maintaining Our Town that's where everything goes towards sir thank you Mr Xin is there anyone else that like to speak on this side Miss [Music] I have no plans to speak time my name is Kimberly CAU hiim live right over here in GL right behind you guys here so I have a bunch of questions and and I agree with some of the things that have been said tonight one of it which is there is definitely a conflict of interest well let's go past that I want it in writing from American Water because I get my bill as well and there were four or five other charges one of the other things that need to be looked at not just delivery charges but they do if you're at 10 gallons it's a delivery charge of this if you're at 20 gallons it's another delivery charge of this so they do five or six delivery charges so we need to clarify that so that we aren't ending up paying a lot more than what we pay right now and I agree with if it's not broke I've been here more than 33 years I've never had an issue with my sewage knock on wood if I've had any issues call the sewage department they come over they help us out that will not happen when it's prioritized I've lived in other states I've lived in other towns within the state of New Jersey and it doesn't happen I don't understand how you don't consider it to be a monopoly when you have your water company now being your sewage company as well most townships Most states never let that happen because it is a monopoly they get to then determine whatever they want to do and there's nothing to stop them yes I understand that we have our boards in the state of New Jersey that go through things my brother-in-law used to work for South Jersey gas so I get all that but in general they want a rate increase they're getting a rate increase and we the people of the township have to then eat that cost then you were talking about services to say that we are benefiting the $6 million or the 3 million that are left into services and that our taxes are going down I have both my taxes bills sitting in my home right now my taxes didn't go down they didn't go down last year either my taxes have consistently gone up every year that I have been here for 33 years it's a little less when I first started it was $800 a year that it went up for three years in a row now it's about 3 something but as I age and as a lot of our no offense as we are all aging our wages aren't going up our social security doesn't go up but all of these things go up I came to apply for a break from this Township from my husband who served our country in the military and what I was told he's not entitled because he did not serve in a war my husband served our country whether he served in a war or in not my husband's life was in Jeopardy every single day that he was in the service because of his clearance and what he did for the service so it's things like that that makes us as citizens of this Township get very frustrated M camon was that for a veterans deduction B for on the taxes it's like $250 a year and we were denied because he did not serve in the Korean War um world war won World War II there was another one I don't remember what the other one was Miss Miss Kavanaugh Miss Eric and also Mr car indicated that is a state statute Township that's that's managed then I think that the wording needs to be Pro provided to US citizens differently you can't say that you give a break for someone who has military service when it's definitely specified into a group that's this big it needs to be worded differently because that's not you're you're then telling people that you're giving something when you're really not giving that to them so but I really want to see that in writing what the breakdown will be delivery charges and Sample building okay thank you is there anyone else on this side Mr paoro [Music] good evening Council Ray palador from the historic village of Ariel good evening uh I'd rather speak from the hip than read notes but I had to make some notes and uh bear with me I hope I don't go to five minutes I hope you a little leniency if so so um what I heard tonight is that Tom cartis uh was the start of of this idea to get this Rong and yet Tom cartis is not here tonight um can he uh conference call in or maybe answer some questions what what made him think this was a good idea no he had a previously planned vacation okay you also said that the MUA Commissioners approached the township and that they thought this was a good idea is that conversation Mr poor I didn't say they approached the township there was a conversation to which they appr agre that took place and all Commissioners unanimously voted to dissolve the MUA okay now um who appoints those Commissioners they're appointed by uh Council the mayor which one the uh mua mua Council Council Council okay all just checking to see how the relationship continues to move on the 9% increase that you're believing that the NJ puff Board of utilities will have um I didn't hear any amount of certainty with that and I can understand why um 9% at any one given time I don't think that went well in haddenfield and in belmare which was 50% 45% which has been wor up plenty of times so I don't believe that that 9% is going to hold water but let's go with 9% is in the contract sir for the first five years it was in the contract for them as well at it's 9% okay let's see that happen Okay that was 9% total all right so if this appr this is approved it'll go to the referendum and let's find out if the people know exactly what they're voting for I'm sure you guys will have a campaign I'm sure they'll be things arriving at people's mailbox I'm sure you'll talk to the seniors and you'll let them know the sky is wrong unless they do this but let's just deal with basic numbers real simple numbers the simple numbers are is that New Jersey American water is going to give this Township $143 million for our sewage system then you have a Capital Improvements in 90 million if that adds up correctly that's $233 million that New Jersey American Water will put out if you take a look at let's say for some reason the stockholders and New Jersey American Water are feeling very generous and they don't want to make a profit on their investment let's just say at that cost if you break that down by 25,000 rate payers in glester Township the $46 per month sewage Bill and this is just flat Mount and if I'm wrong tell me $78 per month $78 per month from a $46 per quarter that simple math how many years how many years how many yeah well it'll go up from there obviously you're math 10 10 years 10 years and let's and again we're saying assuming that the stockholders at new J American W are feeling generous they don't want to make a profit now I did fail to mention that that did not include operating cost operating cost let's say the number is pretty close to an additional $20 a month per rate pay for them to send people out and do their job that takes that $46 per quarter Bill and makes it $98 a month just under $100 a month for your soap okay now for someone like myself who pays Aqua to bring clean water in I'll be paying New Jersey American Water 100 bucks a month then I got to pay Camy County it's an expensive flush of of toilet there it just this now let's just say in a fairly perfect world business-minded world that the stockholders of New Jersey American Water are interested in making a 20% profit over 10 years they may be entitled to that that's what business does if they do that you're taking us up to approximately $18 a month for our sewer those are numbers and I would ask you am I wrong I gave you the numbers if you wrote them down do the math with me am I wrong I like to see your math and writing sir when you have you should have wrote it down because these are important figures go ahead all right let's do this Mr Mado with all due respect 2133 million 25,000 rate payers that's it without without operating cost $78 a month add operating cost about $20 a month is $98 a month add another 20 in case they want to make a profit the stockholders they get funny about that stuff $118 a month now whoever's idea was to dissolve and you guys promised us you weren't going to sell it when we asked originally that didn't go so well for thank you Mr pador oh you're not going to let me finish my thoughts make me wait we're going to be respectful to everyone Mr poor there are other people like to speak so anyone else like to speak on this side we'll start from the back man with the glasses thank you hi my name is Sandy Brooks I live in hi Miss Brooks buos um did you ever consider that the mayor has a conflict of interest in New Jersey American water I mean that didn't think that that would be like a warrant a red flag for the taxpayers to think and it just gives it impropriety type of um U if it in propriety that the mayor has a a managerial position pretty high position with New Jersey American MTAR nobody thinks that wouldn't be something is a red flag to the taxpayers to think ah come on now I mean Miss Brooks the mayor was not involved in any of these conversations but just the whole but I'm just saying the mayor was not involved with this conversation 17 years ago a former mayor had a conversation with a water company about dissolving the MUA that conversation uh and wanted to establish a committee at that time and there was people in this room that advocated for this dissolvement of the MUA at that time and that was not going to go to a vote that was a conversation with a representative of a water company and there are some people who' have attended this meeting over the years that they're well aware of that meeting that took place so this is an opportunity for the residents it's on the ballot if they want it if they don't want it they vote no they want it they put yes and there'll be an explanation on the ballot as well but the mayor has not been involved in any discussions of this sale um why did they want to know the value of the MUA just like do you want to know the value of everything in the town like what that building over there is worth what this building is worth or standing in I mean why did they just want to clearly just like what's the value the it was deemed an asset but it's an asset for the town do they do that for every town asset have they done it for trying to find there is there is pars of land that the township owns that we have sold do you see signs where uh there's Economic Development opportunities for people to purchase those things yes um what happens when they spend this millions of dollars if they sell it from the New Jersey American water and that money they go through that not 93 million or something what if they go through the 143 million that they are going to pay for it to pay off I know what you're saying you're going to use it for but then once that money is used to pay off uh loans and so forth and other activities um what else are we going to have to wind up selling to instead of just cutting things back are you saying they say the town yeah what what on what are we going to where are we going to get keep getting your money for keep selling things instead of and which are things that are worth value to the town and for the taxpayers why we keep selling things off well this a prize an opportunity to eliminate all the debt it alleviates a current $9 million in annual Debt Service that we pay for that debt it will provide tax release of reduction of your Municipal tax on your tax is every dollar that you pay 31 cents is the township you have two school districts the county and fire so 31 cents of your dollar that you pay there is will be a tax reduction on the Township's portion of the tax bill it'll stabilize our taxes and reset our our tax rate and we're able to and we'll be able to reallocate our tax dollars um for Capital Improvement projects and work on our infrastructure that's aging throughout our Township so that is how I Envision where this these dollars will go towards great I see that but I'm saying is that we're spending more than we bring in and we don't want to raise taxes that after a while we're going to this we're going to eat through this money and give you know you got to keep it you got to stop spending money and spend what sh like at home I can't spend more money than we bring in and to run my home and that's how we all are or then you're in debt and then you just have the snow one last thing I just want to point out I've been to a lot of board meetings and I don't know if you realize you do this but whenever they say about spending money and over spending every time un must they blame police by that they're the ones that eat the money like people in the offices don't get paid other areas I come up from a a family of officers and I it's kind of insulting all the time it's always like the last meeting I was at was like they blame the police they blame the police like they're the only ones collecting a salary now we're in bargaining with the police and it's like I think for most of the people here a union that work here to correct me if I'm wrong who is blame the police Miss books no absolutely not I absolutely disag absolutely not Miss Brooks Miss okay I that I went to it was last year we had a meeting last year yeah I was at a meeting I come to meetings periodically maybe you don't do it at the other meetings and it just so happens when I'm at the meeting it's a red flag for me because like I said I have a lot of officers in my family but I know that most of your probably in every other Township they're union workers that work in your offices as well they belong to a union correct me from wrong if you could find the date of that video I'd love to see that you can absolutely I can find Miss Brooks perhaps when there is a discussion about the budget and how much is earmarked towards that particular department but no I I no one is disparaging the police department here absolutely not we're blaming there's no blaming on the police department either I think we all like to feel safe here in our town we provide them with the tools and resources to keep us all safe here I appreciate everything they do but I'm just saying there's other areas where there's people that are belong unions and employee that we have to pay them too absolutely thank you m Brooks is anyone else on the side Mr [Music] Palmer good evening Dennis Palmer Tar Avenue good evening Mr Palmer thank you thank you a question a couple questions um going through the bid what first thing is a post bid Amendment or change or clarification I'm curious what DCA would say to that I mean I brought it in the first place on clarifying because Aqua looked like not looked like apparently they did the math and follow what they thought so I just have a question my mind is I question what DCA would say about a post bid change moving on to further the other comment I had was dealing with the billing again we bet build flat so I have a house I get build for a house will contract continue that practice or will it start implementing billing off the water meter because if I was face how hot it's been many people have watering The Lawns if it starts if you start billing off the water meter like they do in many other towns if you look at the rate structure first I think you put landscapers who do irrigation out of business because no one's going to pay a seore bill it's not equable that if you use water for your lawn your garden fill in your pool because most people lower the pool in the winter and add to it in the springtime none of that water goes to the sour system so when it comes to fairness and Equity the billing should continue as it Contin right now the rate structure set up is it's built on a unit your question about I have difficulty with the township taking the money and giving it to taxpayers because taxpayers and rate payers aren't the same you're going to transfer the burden that's been placed on taxpayers by the bonding by putting onto rate pairs or ass pairs so you're going to take it on to churches protal other schools things that are nonprofits who don't pay taxes they don't get the benefit of you lowering taxes they are going to get the benefit of a higher store bill and I think that's not fair equable either as you go through through this process those those are a series of issues that need to be addressed need to be now the isue comes down also to the great disparity and cost if you look at the audits over the year the infrastructure was about 50 million Outten put in 52 million and there issues deal with the benefit there's a benefit when a company takes over a good faith effort and look as I said I Guild the Lily is not really the right thing but it certainly added a lot to the new American what of pric is such a huge disparity like there was no good faith being fored by New Jersey American which is even in business you talk about good faith and it's just the good faith isn't there and that's a huge number you're going to take that plus the 90 million which is another surprising infrastructure number since we only looked at about 50 million 25 million in the aqua and the township Authority's own Capital plan was only 21 million where is all this pipeline where is all this money going to go and you got again transfer we look at the rate structure that was set up in haddenfield and barington and they were looking at 40 and 50% increases they're looking at $44 a month I see as well approaching beyond that number the average for for New Jersey American is $50 across the state but I really concern for all those who have a lawn a garden a pool or other water use if it goes to a water meter reading that's totally unfair the last comment I have is Mr Orlando in the bid document does the township get free sore for the municipal buildings and all the other buildings yes for a time period two years well the money that you're going to get out of the sale really shouldn't go to the township they should go to the rate pays they're the ones who paid for decades since 1960s to build the system they've paid for the operation they pay for the capital that's out there and if the C gets two years free how about the rate pairs should we get a rebate I'll pass another Miss P if you don't mind but that's the comment I have the money is going to flow to your treasury but you didn't earn it you didn't pay for it you didn't put the money in in the first place rap pairs it that's why rap pairs the tax pairs you got the new apartments just going down by Blackwood school just occupied barely paying a sword bill you have the brand new ones that going down down by the by the allet they haven't paid any sort of Bill but if this money goes to tax decreases they're going to get a benefit of something they paid nothing into or very low the rate payers only deserve the money they deserve a rebate thank you thank you anyway yes [Music] sir good evening Barry salvator Hicktown Road siglerville good evening bar just a couple of things I'm going to piggy back on to Dena we were absolutely told at the meeting last year in 23 that there was no intention once we switched from mua to sewer author we were told that there was no intention of selling it because that was everybody's concern if you go and pull back the tapes from then you will see that that was everybody's concern that we were looking to sell second when I was here at the last meeting uh two months ago I asked if an audit had or how much the mua generates for the township and I was told while we didn't do an audit we would have to do an audit to find that out how could we consider selling something when we don't even know what it generates for the township just a point for Mr ctis when he comes back or if he's watching this he knows that we talked about a 9% increase after two years what's to and I know that's total over three years so rough five years well all right so 9% over 5 years but I thought there was no increase for the first two years that's correct okay 9% compounded not compounded not compounded I'm sorry I stand corrected what is the increase looking like after that five years because everything I'm seeing from everything that I'm reading we're seeing 30 40 50% increases that people are seeing in their bills is there something and you're the attorney that negotiated this and I don't know your name I'm so sorry but is there anything to protect the residents from some ridiculous increase the first year that this is all done there is there's the dpu um the Board of Public Utilities where the utility needs to propose what the any rate any proposed rate increase needs to be applied for by New Jersey American or any any utility company they go before the board with periodic rate cases I believe it's what the Board of Public Utilities for ler Township or the state J state okay so they're semi-protected but I the other increases the allall gone through so I don't foresee anything stopping it here um what what increases are you speaking of you said you saw an increase when when I'm reviewing the increases that all these other towns have gotten town in m just I'm just speaking in general of the increases whether I look at haddenfield whether I look at Cherry Hill or whatever town and I'm just picking Towns at this point because I don't remember everything I read I'm pretty good though um and I'm going to have to start writing things down because I do kind of forget things as far as what I want to ask that's fine and I'd like to shoot from the hip keeps you guys on your toes um so was an audit done of the MUA and what it generated what it generates in revenue for the township you would ask that you're going to ask Mr you asked Mr cartis about well I asked about that but was it was it done would any of you know if that was done prior to the sale or proposed sale and accepting bids no um and does anybody uh I'm list listening to the numbers that we're using here tonight 56 m43 million that's night and day what did one company know that another one doesn't just just my thought is like that's those are just ridiculous numbers that's a variance that's insane and why would one be so much lower because they had to have the same information to look at to come up with what their bids were I I can't speak on that I know there was three utilities that were interested that were Miss Sor was healing questions and Mr cartis from three different utility companies there was a third one bolia that was also involved as well that's a North Jersey and a global uh water utility so I'm not sure that that's a question for aqua I mean I can't believe the people that work for aqua that work out their bids to buy muas and Sewer authorities are that much more stupid than New Jersey whatever the name of the company is that came in with that high bid that's all for now thank you thank you be so anyone else on this side uh Miss coin follow Follow by I'm sir you'll be with be there okay iost a okay Denise coin she's Landing um the gentleman that was just up here was asking about uh any protections after the five years because after the five years it's game one you guys no longer have any control and we have absolutely no control of our sewer because we know longer own it so here's a notice of filing from New Jersey American Water uh to the uh Board of Public Utilities for their rate increase in 2024 and it refers to um townships that their fiveyear protections or 10year protections or whatever their protections were uh we're now up so for example on page four of this document penfield's increase was going up 50.3 4% Mount ephraim's increase was 4.08% so I hope that answers your question Mr Nash are they proposed or they finalized um uh they were approved they approved I pretty sure I saw in The Courier Post they were approved okay yeah because I saw they were proposed so after five years there's no protections for the residents and um I go on Facebook and I see every day people complaining about their utility bills and how they can't afford to pay them because they've gone up so much so dramatically that they just don't know what to do and they're going to be adding their sewer bill to that list our bills will no longer be a stable $46 a quarter if they go up these percentages on top of 9% after five years on top of New Jersey American Water getting back their 90 million that they're going to put into our system according to them all that money that they're giving you is going to come from us we will pay that money back and the reality is all the money that we will end up paying back isn't going to fix the problem that this Township has the problem this Township has is overspending and over borrowing that the residents can fix by elting electing new representation if you sell our sewer that's a done deal we cannot do anything about that it's gone we cannot get it back forever it's a done deal and um a major concern of mine is the lack of transparency that there's been throughout this whole process and I find it really hard to believe that if you guys were really trying to do something that was phenomenally good for this Township you would not have screened it from the roof tops you've had no council Workshop meetings there's been no information sent out to the public about that about this whole deal we were misled previously we were told that there was no intentions to sell the sewer we were told that you were only trying to Def figure out what the asset was worth when the same night that resolution that you introduced and approved said the desire to sell Council desires to to sell it did not say Council desires to assess the value it said Council desires to sell but that is not what we were told at that meeting so um it's very concerning to me that there's been a lack of transparency and accountability it's also very concerning to me that two of our representatives are not here tonight Mr cartis is also not here tonight yet you said he was the one that you know came up with this whole deal he's not here this is the public hearing before you all vote to put this on the ballot our Representatives aren't here Mr Carl is not I mean Mr cartis isn't here and where has been the transparency to the public I mean the residents have had County Community meetings to inform people about what's going on that's why there's people in this room because of us not because of you but because of us I also sent a letter to every single council member to the mayor to Mr Caris to Mr carmir on July the 10th I've yet to receive an answer why didn't nobody answer me you're supposed to represent me I had valid questions I never got an answer why what were those questions Miss coin you got my email can you refresh my memory what those question the questions had to do with the bid do you want to ask those questions now no the clerk has a copy of my email every single person here received it what was the date July the 10th I never got an answer from a single person the other thing we never got an answer on was whether or not Dave mayor is going to get a bonus from the sale of our sewer system to New Jersey America water we were told that you don't know that that's not an acceptable answer Miss coin I don't know we do not know we do not work for the residents deserve to know Miss coin thank you for your time the residents deserve to know I'm sorry one behind me you'll be after the gentleman in the blackout [Music] okay hi Jessica black one hey Jim we have fun on the internet together all right first things first me and Jim we've had some conversations about the um rate increases he says there's no uh evidence as to the rate increases and how much there'll be in New Jersey because everything's just proposed uh I brought up the graph to him of Pennsylvania and how the rate increases there were in Shelton burrow they had 149% increase in in uh let's see exter Township they had 167% increase they went from $43 to $114 and there's a bunch of other ones I can email you this yes and can you give me can you give me the time period the time frame well this is from the inquire I can actually send you the article that it came from yes and I could give it to you right now walk up there and give it to you um the point is so there's 167 increase there's cane burrow Municipal Authority in Pennsylvania that went from $50 a month to $113 a month which is 123% increase and a bunch of other towns on here that you'll get to see he says that they don't matter because it's in Pennsylvania and not New Jersey but we all know that American water is a corporation that goes across 24 States in this country they're headquartered in camon New Jersey they work here where they're doing new acquisitions they work in PA they work in Hawaii they work in California so makees sense to go off of other states because it is a corporation like a Walmart to decide how it will affect your Township my proposition to him and he said bring it up to you is maybe wait our mua isn't going anywhere our debt isn't going anywhere wait five to 10 years see how it works out in hanfield see how it works out in these other townships see if it benefits them and then decide what's best for the residents that's my first thing three minutes my second thing uh a patch article that released today was quoted saying if the referendum passes in gler Township New Jersey American Water will execute the sale the process typically takes about six months with closing estimated for the end of June 2025 marado said but if the referendum fails the sale won't happen quote unless Council decides to commence a new procurement process in the future marado said I would like you to elaborate what that means a question was asked at the last meeting an EEG question that's when people send an email in because they can't attend the meeting and that question was asked if this fails is there another opportunity can you go out again there is an option to go out again if this fails that was me addressing that question so it has nothing to do with the fact that there's only two ways to sell an mua in New Jersey one is to leave it up to the voters and the second way is to decide that uh there's so many physical and financial disrepair that you can't handle that you need to file the emergency form with New Jersey to just move ahead with it without the votes which I mean it seems like you could do that since you acquired the public utility you put someone in charge that didn't have that isn't communicating with the workers you've taken their Surplus and spent half of it you take whatever Capital that they're getting now I mean I don't expect you to answer but I want everybody to hear it and no finish I I don't know where you're going with that where you going they know where I'm going with it one minute left well if you could articulate that to appreciate excuse me I want to do my last minut okay not a problem um he sent me how it will benefit who is he Jim Nash Mr Nash he sent me how how it will benefit the employees because I said I am fighting for them because I'm fighting for union workers Teamsters workers to have health benefits for their children and careers and pension credits all things they've worked for for well over a decade he sent me what this bitter thing is which is the bidder will be required to offer employment to up to 23 employees of the Township's existing Wastewater employees the employee must be offered a position of similar uh job Duty along with equal or better pay and salary and benefits that are consistent with the buyer standard wage and benefit package in a geographic vicinity of glow Township employment shall be offered subject to Township Personnel satisfying pre-employment physical screening requirements so I mean it's not a guarantee if they get hired it's if they pass the physical and the buyer shall offer full-time employment for a minimum period of 6 months from the commencement of service date as as long as the township Personnel perform the duties to satisfactory reason uh abilities so they went from having a career with pensions and credits something they could retire with after 25 years of service working with our waste and they're going to go to a private sector company where their pension credits will go up in the air they're only guaranteed six months of employment they're only guaranteed whatever the health benefits is offered through the company and not the health benefits that they've been getting here in the bid response in the bid response it indicated they will honor the union contracts thank you very much for your time yes for six [Applause] months J in Blackwood 245 STS are Avenue good evening Mr first I like to say you know I used to enjoy watching politicians I don't do it anymore and I'm not involved in politics because of the fact that politicians have stopped fighting for us and most have fight for their own agenda I'm not saying you guys are doing that I don't know any of you personally and I don't believe you have that ulterior motive however saying that we had or the MUA had a surplus that means it was running correctly why was it dissolved that's number one number two again if you're running in a surplus from a business point of view why would you want to sell something that is working again if it wasn't broke don't fix it taking in consideration that American Water wants to buy it it must be Equitable it must be profitable there must be a reason behind it it isn't just that one man's going to get something in his pocket which we don't know about it is it that the council's going to benefit because again you guys are supposed to fight for us the majority of the people in this room do not want the MUA sold the majority of the taxpayers here that are residents that own property don't want it sold if you put this on a ballot how many people will vote not knowing exactly what they're voting for that live in apartments that don't pay taxes that don't pay a sewer bill that don't pay a water bill I'm trying to figure out why we not only have to pay a water bill but we have to pay a sewer bill to our mua and also sewer build a Camy County when a lot of other municipalities in the state of New Jersey don't have any of you ever lived in a facility or in a uh I'm sorry municipality where American water is please raise your hand if you have I've lived here for 25 years if that's here and I've had American water and I've had Aqua you again providing your water correct but not sewer your sewer now again we talk about our Sewer Department we don't really have a processing plan here do we no we have a collection system and the collection system we have is a series of pump stations it takes my waste and your waste and your waist and it puts it to a pump station that pump station pushes it uphill or downhill whether it's gravity fed or not and ultimately it ends up in Camden County where it's processed we don't have that here but our mua was profitable when I had an issue in Christmas time last year I called the MUA they came right out so care ofy was that a cleanout sir uh yes it was that cleanout will still be performed by the township again was it at no cost to you yes it was at no cost it'll be at no cost to the residents now we'll continue do we have this in writing no I'm telling you that that's from the township well we're going to provide that again Mr marado we don't know each other person so I have to take you with your word I'm in a room full of people and I'm on a live stream here I'm telling you that we're going to continue to provide those clean apps and I'm under prain is golden no cost to the residents okay again this is what I want to see again everybody has talked about rate increases I didn't have the time to really research a lot today and notes that I did take actually in my other passes I had a I got home from work at quarter of and I had a rush over here so I apologize if I'm going a little bit faster that's fine now I have seen American War take over facilities I have seen what they've done I don't want to get into what I do in my private life or where I work because that has no bearing on where I am here but only the knowledge that I that I do contain about American Water now we are paying them for our water or or whoever Aqua supplies somebody other the water to the township but again we have no control over how much they increase our sewer bills and that's a lot of our concerns the service and and the profitability I mean if it's worth aund and what was it how many how many million dollars 143 if it's worth $143 million now what could it be worth five years from now maybe it be worth more again we were told or my my wife and my father-in-law got rested Soul has told me that when they started charging for the MUA it was supposed to be a temporary thing we were told that when they opened the outlet malls that we were going to get a tax break then at one meeting we were told well our our taxes didn't go up that high because we benefited from that it's got to come down to you guys fighting for us you know we're telling you what we want again I don't know why this room isn't filled it should have been I mean I had time to get home get changed and come here and you know I hate to say it guys but you know you're supposed to fight for us you're supposed to fight for the people that can't speak up for themselves when I was in a Marine Corps I fought for people that couldn't fight for themselves and I want you to take care of us because that's what we're actually need to do thank you very much yes [Applause] sir yeah my name is Philip craft I live on Lei Avenue in Blackwood hell Mr C yeah originally came to Blackwood uh by a small house I was going to move on that was 1985 I'm still here and the past dictates the future I've been coming here not very often but I agree with the last guy you guys have to start fighting for us I highly disappointed our mayor's not here and other people it's like going to a a parent Teachers Conference and the teacher's not there it's it's and as for the mayor being involved in this that really upsets me because you know I was told our cable system was going to be upgraded allow some other good biders to come in and it's still exactly the same we're getting bled dry all the time from the cable which has nothing to do with this but I really think this is going to be similar you have a nine-year agreement I was in my 20s when I bought my house I don't look like I'm 20 anymore do I okay this is my point you guys have to watch out for us otherwise we it's sometimes it's difficult to fire you guys because of the wording at all but you guys have to start looking out for the number one people us and I'm really hoping when this comes down to being worded it's it's yes we want to sell it or no we don't want to because in the past you guys have done things where you worded it where we had if we didn't like it we had to vote Yes which is ludicrous it's either yes meaning we want it or no we don't want it I'm hoping you put it on the ballot that way Mr Craft on that billboard is in the paper in front of you you can grab that the ordinance is there and it has the question and it has the explanation underneath it and that's what will be reflected on the ballot and I'm kind of disappointed you guys don't realize what's going to happen in the long run you know I play Monopoly with the kids I grab that utility because if you get a 10 or doubles a 12 I'm going to hammer you for1 $20 and that's what's going to happen to us I feel that's exactly what's going to happen because like I said before keep bringing up Comcast That was supposed to be really affordable you guys sat up there years and years ago and said it's going to be I'm paying over $200 a month for basic cable yeah basic cable and they got more things you know if the guy drives down the street looks at my house I get a SE charge I mean some of the things on the bill are just mindboggling like some of the other people had said it's amazing how they can justify all these costs and I agreee with the other guy if it's worth this now what can it possibly be worth in the future and it must be working good because you're Building Homes like crazy on College Drive across from Penco Tech all that crap in liter you all that crap's going somewhere so it must be working everything's working well and why you're changing something that works is beyond me but like I said you really have to start looking out for us all this I kind of hate to use the word double talk but it's kind of double talk to me you guys got to look out for us because now I've here almost 40 years and it's still the same thing and if the mayor's involved with if this particular mayor you know how he got Comcast in here and no other competition extremely disappointing he doesn't think about us somebody somebody's doing something and it's not going in my pocket Mr Crab disappointed Mr KRA I just want to correct something Comcast was here before the mayor was employed with them Verizon regarding and everyone brings wants to bring up Verizon Verizon didn't want to lay down any fi uh any fiber down here and decided to go in other directions with their business model any no if anyone an XYZ cable company wanted to come in here XYZ cable company can come in here there is there is not a not exclusive contract with Comcast that keeps being floated around over and over again over the years and I I guess it's just it's lwh hanging fruit for people to say the mayor would kind of like promote it a little bit just promote it a little bit because like I said when I move here the Walt lien Bridge they're going to charge for a short time as soon as that bridge is paid for we're not going to get charged that tall anymore what can I tell you I'm kind of a doubting Thomas anymore so like I said you guys have to fight for us you know we pay a little bit a little bit like you said that that Surplus and we get a 14 cents I mean some of the the things like I said you can go around and I see people following the postman find out he's doing his job well we need to start following people around and find out if we can save money a little bit here a little bit there for us because like I said I'm not 20 anymore and I'm not I have the income I used to have so I'm really hoping you guys watch out for us so one quick thing I like that so what we're voting on today is a to put it on to the agenda so or the ballot in November so that the entire population of GL Township can vote 60 ,000 so that's all we're doing so that you everyone in the town not just this room 65,000 residents have a voice it's democracy that's what we're voting on we're not saying yes or no we're saying is it going to be on the B for the people to decide I'm really thank you Mr CRA doesn't seem like that many people showed up okay Mr sell hot dogs out front and get more people come in this which is embarrassing promoted yes ma'am [Music] good evening my name is lesie STO Munos I've been in Gloucester Township for many years since 1992 I bought my first home in Valleybrook I Live Now in Ariel New Jersey I've been there for over 20 years I'm here to represent all the people that are not sitting in the chairs beginning with the elderly the senior citizens that are on fixed income the retired people single moms and struggling single dads people who earn under six figures young couples and first-time home buyers okay people that rent because the people that rent to them are renting homes that cost just as much as homes and they have to pay that sewer bill so I thank you for the wonderful jobs you do I'm not accusing you of anything but I want to bring something to your conscience which is that right at this time the economy is crazy and I understand that there are things that you feel that we cannot afford to do and this is why you want to make these moves I have some brilliant propositions that I will share in the End Food is Almost 30% more if you haven't noticed if you're a woman or a man that goes food shopping you realized we can't buy the food we used to buy we have to clip coupons pinch pennies go without certain things because we can't afford it I live in a small rancher in Ariel very small my daughter who bought a home in Clementon I had to sell it and move in with me she just cannot afford the rents the rents cost just as much as owning a home I don't know if you realize this the bridge is going to go up again Liberty Mutual just sent me a letter that says that everyone in New Jersey that includes you your homeowners insurance will go up 40% soon 40% that's just our homeowners that doesn't include all the other things that are going on I don't know if you noticed that there are no real jobs either everything is per DM I applied for a job here there was a clerk position 60 people tried to take it my daughter who works at Sahara Sams makes more money than the jobs I've been applying for because there are no jobs that have benefits no jobs that have PTO everything is per DM I don't know if you've noticed we're struggling in Gloucester Township I'm sure they're struggling in other places in America but we're struggling right here in Gloucester Township we cannot afford to have another utility go Skyrocket on us soon around the corner a year or two from now we need to be wise about our actions here we don't want it on the ballot we don't want to say yes or no it's no we don't want it I do have some ideas though for you guys okay I just picked up my car from the auto body shop this morning it was there for almost two weeks thank God I have full coverage and thank God I saw the license plate of the person who hit me while I was parked in Dollar General they backed right up into me hit me and decided that I better not stop I better keep going I wonder why I wonder why they wanted to keep going but then again if they're caught smoking marijuana and driving and hitting my car they'll have a bigger consequence I say that we tax all the cannabis dispensaries that we've peppered throughout our community tax them to Wazoo and that's how we get the money that we need because if you haven't noticed every two or three minutes someone's hitting a pole because they've been smoking marijuana and I sit in the courtroom in glester Township and I watch and I take notes how many people are under the influence getting caught Because by the way I also sit in Dunkin Donuts right where the cannabis dispensary is in cerville and I watch them roll their joints up and light up and drive out which they're not supposed to do let's make money off of that if we really need to make some money how about we do a small increase that we can all try to afford let's not sell it and let other people make money off of us we can't even afford what we're doing now we don't many of us here we don't make six figures I'm still looking for a job I can't even get shop right to hire me I've lived in four homes in Gloucester Township one of the first homes was where you live I think you lived at some point in Valleybrook then I moved into Ariel into a single home then I had to go smaller and smaller and smaller and now I am in a teeny home I appreciate the work you guys do I ask you to consider us I know you live here too because you wouldn't be able to be on the on the council it affects all of us thank it affects all of us I appreciate [Applause] anyone on this side of the room that would like to speak again that has not spoken yet sir yes with the you in the green shirt I'm sorry Jer Mor Stern Summerdale Broadmore U evening Jerry corporate accountant on the cost County side just crunching numbers um is are 25,000 units in the MUA is that an accurate number uh Miss s we have 23 R 23,000 Rays yeah approximately 23,000 25 so T taking the uh 25,000 taking the current rate which is about $184 a year and building in uh some inflation it's the rate's going to projected be $221 a year times the 25,000 is about 5.4 5 million a year in cash for New Jersey the that's a what the revenue is going to be New Jersey American water is investing $143 million quick quick and dirty the math will be a 20 if it's right with no major increases a 26-year payback never happened in Corporate America they're going to have to raise the their rat significantly typical payback might be 5 to 10 years it's not going to be 26 years I'm not sure you're thank you okay thank you jar appreciate it is there anyone else yes sir [Music] glasses good evening all Michael Shuck uh W good evening Mr sh drive from one in hearing tonight and correct me if I'm wrong it it sounds and I'm extremely disappointed if I heard this correctly that no one has really researched what has happened with the other towns rates going up after the agreement with the their own agreements were up because I've heard well send me the article send me this send me that um if that is true I just believe that is an extreme disservice to all of us um if you didn't look five years down the road and how this decision could have an effect on the township um we've heard tonight that after the five-year rate agreement rates have gone up roughly 50 to 100% now unlike Ray with his math I know we currently pay $184 a year right let's just say for argument sake that after uh the rates go up after this um I'm sorry um let's just say after the rates go up it goes up to seven after the agreement it goes up $70 a month okay that's $840 a year versus the 184 that we're paying now it's an increase of $656 a year what do you tell the seniors or people on a fixed income how this is good for them to pay an extra 650 $6 a year what do you say to them why is this a good thing for them why is it a good thing for any of us to what everybody has said how are we better off and if this is just $70 and we've heard $100 $120 how is that better off that's all I have to say so so the reason why we're asking the reason why I'm personally asking is because we've done extensive research and there has not been an Apples to Apples comparison of towns in this in in our in New Jersey that have had an acquisition from New Jersey American water and has had an increase it's been proposed it's been IAS there's been speculation there's no hard concrete facts yet and that's all we were clarifying when somebody says there's an increase of x amount of dollars the reason why we're asking is because we don't see it there is that because the five years is up for the possibly possibly well then why are we hurrying why are we hurrying somebody did this already why are we waiting no that's that's an important question and I get put it on the ballot okay but as everybody said we don't need to put it on the ballot you're asking people five years from now people talk that were in the business world you know and I know the rates are going to go up you do know it you're a homeowner you know it so at least on a $70 rate increase why would you want a senior five years from now and it will be even higher to pay $656 what are we getting out of that other than wiping your debt and you're spending the money in five years potentially from now if not within the 10 we're back to a debt again thank you thank [Music] you Miss Johnson good evening Maryann Johnson Catalina Hills good evening hello um my opinion obviously is getting 143 million is basically a loan they're giving you $143 m million but they're going to want something back they're going to want that money back plus interest so if you go through with this then basically we are the ones that will be paying it back um as far as Services I would love to drive a BMW but I have a Hyundai because I live between within my means we if you don't have the money the services must go with what you have also Mr Nash you said we get reasons to tonight um why this would be good I haven't heard anything yet so if you could please give us some good reasons so that we can make a decision thank you thank you anyone else on this side that has not spoken that would like to speak yes ma'am jet Maro good evening Miss Maron GL o uh I'm just want to know I'm a senior I'm 80 years old I have a very low income what am I supposed to do sell my house in order to live do you participate in the senior discount program from the MUA are you aware of that no I'm not really aware of that because nobody tells you nothing no I'm not okay so that's available to people who are 65 years of age if their income is less than [Music] $10,000 oh come on you got to be joking are you making more than $10,000 may ask that question okay well it's social social security is not included in that figure excluding social not without Social Security no okay so therefore you would qualify for a 25% reduction if you are enrolled in that program then you will be grandfathered to that program and you have that 25% reduction in your bill and who do I say about that okay you can I can have that document sent to you Miss maroon let's do the sewer utility um we can get a copy to to you uh do you have if you have an email address and come up here we can email that to you okay okay that's available and that is available to anyone who is 65 and over they have those requirements you have to Pride documentation but that you are grandfathered in and I'll be quite I've been in the township 50 years and I I'll be I'll be frank with you I did not know that existed till about two months ago well apparently a lot of seniors don't know it absolutely and I wasn't aware they were also doing cleanouts and not charging for those cleanouts so so but thank you we for that if you could par your email Miss oh she's gonna grab your email Miss B for it over there miss Moro anyone on this side that has not spoken that would like to speak again we're going to go to this side anyone in the back has not spoken they would like to speak again ma'am okay hi Carol Colin czecho hi car how are you I hate to sound like a broken record but if it's not broke why are we trying to fix it and again we're never not going to be in debt so we're going to pay this debt selling off an asset and then we're going to American water is not doing this out of the goodness of their heart it's a business they want to make money they're going to make money on us so now we're going to have our rates raised and then we're also going to be paying off debt it doesn't make sense I don't think this is a good idea at all okay so I'm against it all right thank you anyone this side sir in red shirt and then I'll come to you sir Mr ever hi Mr sco how are you can I have Bob take my time no there is no giving of time no giving time that's in our Rules of Order there all right so if we're selling something that we really shouldn't be selling because no one here wants it's sold and you work for us right okay you want to make more money like this young said go the people that are smoking pot while they driving tenant windows it's $1,000 fine for tenant windows in your car you know that right I don't have tenant windows I I used to work for for company that there's a lot of T Windows ,000 fine for the first time $5,000 fine for the second time the third time your car gets to and that's in the state of New Jersey so if you want to make money and save make money SE the the cops out that's all I have to say all right thank you sir yep Mr ever good evening I'm Brian Everett of friendwood Drive I wanted to speak against this ordinance this evening um a couple weeks ago I was a delegate to the AFT convention in Houston and it was at that uh convention that the a uh a union of Education professionals healthcare workers and Public Service workers we were the first Union to endorse kamla Harris for president and she came and spoke it was a lot of fun um but one key takeaway from that convention was that privatization of public goods it puts jobs into precarity and it is a form of union busting so I am against this proposal for that reason I'm also against this proposal because I have been paying bills with American water for a few years now and when I first uh enrolled in their services I signed up for that insurance program that they offer for pipes and whatnot uh that was only like four years ago and at that point it was $5.99 per month today it is $27.99 per month so I don't have much faith in New Jersey American Waters future in terms of how they're going to pass uh a lot of increases on towards the taxpayers here in Gloucester Township and another reason why I oppose this ordinance is just something that my dad taught me uh it's like a very way to like verbalize your thoughts just to make sure I understand what I'm saying and the sentence the township council is looking to sell the public utility to the company that the mayor works for that sentence gives me the ick and for that alone I'm opposed to this uh ordinance and I do agree with a lot of the um residents and neighbors who spoke earlier um on different matters I haven't heard one resident this evening who is speaking in favor of this ordinance thank you for your time thank you there anyone else on this side i' like to speak we'll go on this side M can you have the run out for a second Miss uh FR I see your hand there you have out spoken [Music] again Terry frz Blackwood New Jersey I've been a resident of glester Township for over 50 years um I certainly paid taxes this entire years sugar bills and everything else uh it was my understanding that if you came here tonight you were going to hear the pros of why it is beneficial to the residents that this Council decided that they would take over the MUA they would um look into how much they could get for the sewer system and uh they would give us uh answers to questions but I haven't heard one pro from from Mr marato or from anyone here as to what the benefits are now I go to school board meetings all the time uh and when something comes up uh or something that I'm asking I ask for the pros and the cons and up until the last couple of years they were forthcoming with that information so tonight I would like to hear someone from this Council that thinks it's a good idea to put it on the ballot or or to have voted for it in the first place or to entertain the idea of selling it I would like to hear what they think the pros are because I think every resident understands what the cons are we understand how much it's going to cost us more and I disagree with Mr Nash in the fact that there isn't enough information out there because while we are in New Jersey and they have been doing this for a number of years in Pennsylvania I too did research and there wasn't any article that I read for any of the different towns that they sewage a bill did not go drastically up so whether it's New Jersey or whether it's Pennsylvania it's the same American General water I expect that the same thing will happen so tonight since I took the time to come here I could have just watched it at home like I do your Council meetings I would like to hear what this Council thinks the pros are and the benefits to the residents I know that the wording says you decided this would be a benefit for residents so let's hear them [Applause] well now pay back uh miss fredz this is providing an opportunity for residents to determine whether they're going to sell uh they want to sell the Wastewater system I'm not if you if anyone has paid attention to these meetings I am not cheerleaded I not advocated I've talked about what it could the benefit what could happen eliminating our debt $67 million eliminating a $9 million Debt Service okay providing tax release a reduction in our Municipal Taxes okay providing cap you want me to answer writing Capital Improvement much needed the two months prior to the desolution of the MUA they had wanted to go to had an$ 18 to19 million cap capital budget for infrastructure improvements those infrastructure improvements the MUA and and his former capacity and the sewer utility and the township we don't have the financial capacity to make those infrastructure improvements so so I so I this is this is giving an opportunity for residents to determine whether or not they want to sell the utility or not if you ask my personal opinion or my opinion of what this could do for our Township and reset reset our Municipal tax rate and the amount that be raised by taxation absolutely will eliminate our debt and we'll just run it right back up again so because that's our pattern right Mr Nash you wanted to to respond to no I mean you said exactly that's that's the biggest benefit right so tax reduction stabilization for x amount of years so yes it sounds like you know per Ray's math for everyone's math there probably will be some sort of increase we don't know what the increase is going to be right but what we do know is Mr Mado said is that we're going to reduce our debt by N9 cents on an annual basis $9 million on an annual basis million bud is gone of our of our Municipal tax uh tax bill so that's tangible savings on top of that there's $70 million left over to Capital Improvement Miss Johnson asked about uh she was asking about uh what values you said or what comes to it one is your son and granddaughters soccer field they want soccer lights things like this for our Town's children who are spending lots and lots of time on the soccer fields they can't play at night because they don't have lights your son your son personally ask me if we can get lights on those fields there are the values that we can now provide if we have these types of resources but it's not necessary that's optional oh that that's an opinion right thank you m FR well I have one more thing to say when it comes to a council doing the bare minimum and to me the bare minimum is to putting your information in newspaper I think we all understand that most people don't buy the paper anymore and don't read the paper and it's a little tiny thing hidden away somewhere uh so in gluster Township we're always complaining about enough people don't come out like they didn't come out tonight or they don't come out to vote there's going to be a whole lot of people they don't even know that this is on the ballot so when they get their ballot they won't even know what this is or understand it why is it that we can send out all kinds of flyers and information and we can have it in our H little whatever you call that paper that comes out quarterly uh to your house uh of what's going on in the township why isn't it a priority to uh make each household in Gloucester Township know about selling the sewer I will ask the administ ation if they if that's something they could put in their corly newsletter from the fall I didn't see it on the either EXC excuse me I didn't see any mention of it on that nice billboard that that nice uh you know board that you have out front that tells us the meetings are and when different things are in the township and we're collecting leaves or whatever it tells us I didn't see any mention of this on there my point is that a lot of people don't know what's going on now I have happen to have a sign that says don't sell the Sil utility and I live in a small development but a p park is behind my house I can't tell you how many people walk by and say what is this about well they shouldn't have to ask me what it's about they should have heard from gluster Township things that you're proposing that you want to do or that you might want to do and like you said it it's going to be on the ballot but he we all know that that that isn't uh it doesn't mean everybody's going to understand what it is okay so you want to get a good vote a true vote of what residents feel you have to provide them with information thank you anyone else on this side that has not spoken that would like to speak anyone on this side that has had not spoken I would like to speak okay we're gonna start with Mr [Music] exin followed by Miss Hendry and followed by Mr paloro you IR Stein gleno um last time I was here you were saying that there was going to be infrastructure improvements what are you talking about with the money you said if you get the money the 143 there's Capital Improvements that they have ear marked in their bid no infrastructure improvements so you want you want me to go through them sir no no no never mind next question okay why not you don't want to hear it okay please refrain from language [Music] please now I forgot the other oh I know what I'm saying you're saying that you that you need money to do infrastructure for the township there there is going to be there was again that's not well known but there was 18 million or 19 million doll capital budget request I was a liazon to the gtmua a capital budget request for infrastructure improvements that got sheld when there was a dissolution of the MUA so sooner or later we have an aging infrastructure the Capital Improvements are going to need to be made on that infrastructure according to the Remington and berck uh engineering report that was done at for the disillusion that the system was in good condition and that recommendations that Remington and verick had uh suggested we already in process of being implemented okay so there's not going to be any maintenance of the infrastructure Mr X9 we're not have to continue infrastructure improvements of course okay well if if money well now it's part of the part of the township yes so if improving the system is important why we have we already borrowed this year close to $15 million for for the sewer system no no for just things that you seem to that you seem to spend money on oh providing services for a residence those are the things that we're spending money on every every Township every municipality has police department they have Parks so but Ira why do you decide to keep Roots here and stay here as opposed to living in another municipality I want to this town you don't know how bad I want to leave this Township you don't know help so so there this town separates itself from other towns how Okay high taxes I guess yeah someone said it too premium Services okay I I guess I guess that we don't provide anything to our residents high taxes high taxes okay $32,000 uh uh uh uh pedestrian bridge for pickleball courts it was not 32,000 that's the story that keeps being told it was not $32,000 I got the bid I got 32,000 it was not $32,000 for the bridge sir that's a story that keeps going out that it was $32,000 for the bridge it was not so it was not $32,000 is there anything else Mr X9 no all right thank you uh Miss [Music] Henry good evening again hry Summerdale um again quick question what is the flowchart of this amazing Township like what is like the pyramid you mean the organizational chart yeah yes organizational chart yeah so it's the residence I don't have there's not a formal or chart that I have here uh there are separation of government there's an Administration there is uh legislative which we are and then there's the judicial okay thank you for clarifying that um so when Mr ctis came to you with this amazing idea to sell the MUA or the sewer utility did you discuss this with anybody else I had a conversation that said move forward see uh What uh what we can do with that and then I discuss it with members of council but did you talk to the mayor about it no so but doesn't it go like residents then the mayor and may could not be mayor could not be involved in the discussion why why because he has a conflict but wait a second when the idea came about right wouldn't you like call the mayor be like hey no said we should sell it didn't call the mayor and say hey we should sell it nope that did not take so then you took it upon yourself to discuss it with your team members let's put it on the agenda I said let's move forward and explore the possibility of selling this asset so at that point then when did the mayor find out about this great idea this great I would imagine in March when we put it on the agenda so then who runs the township you or the mayor uh the township is run by the administration the mayor the administration and the mayor we are the the administration is the mayor so you made a decision without without talking to Mayor the mayor has a conflict of interest but how would you know that was a conflict of interest because he works for American water and he provided a letter indicating has a conflict of interest and cannot be involved in any activities regarding the sale of the sewer okay so he found out the date the night that we found out or when the agenda got posted he provided a letter prior to this going on the agenda so he knew when the agenda got posted just like everybody else I would say days before the agenda was posted and then he was just like oo this could be a conflict of interest no he had said a letter that it was a conflict of interest prior to the agenda okay because we knew that American Water could be a contender that's correct right okay uh I'm following it now so when the MUA got dissolved into the sewer department um we were told that there was going to be a savings to the residents but we never got told how much of a savings do we know how much this resident saved by merging of these uh that question has been asked several times Mr Mr cars has not provided an analysis on that there was initial Savings of the commissioner uh salaries there's economies of scale because there was a duplication of particular services that are provided by uh the MUA and the township uh you have one payroll department one human resources department so there was economies of scale there so when we dissolved the MUA and it became a sewer department did we also shrink um Workforce or we we gained Workforce no the workforce remain the same we didn't add any positions uh I there was Miss are you aware of any hiring additional hiring during that time period okay do you think we bid off more than we can chew by dissolving this that's the reason why we're looking to sell no okay um and then also when this desire to sell and then four of you ran last year about saving the taxpayers money did you guys realize that you would be costing the taxpayers money more money by if this was a sell no I disagree you disagree because if we are paying let's say $100 a month for our sewer not only are the seniors going to be hurt but also families who have children who play in those parks and play in those leagues we're going to have to decide do we flush the toilet or do our three kids play flag football seniors are going to have to decide do I buy my meds or if it's yellow let it mellow I mean come on now think about it tonight is the night that you guys can decide do we put it on the ballot or not and I honestly believe you should say let's trap this you have the power but yet you don't want to do it you're saying let the people decide there's more people in this room that ever come to a council meeting the people have decided they don't want it nobody in this room has said yes I think it's amazing so the people have spoken you rather let it go during election so what 60 people 60,000 people can vote 60,000 people don't vote in this Township I'll go up again Mr Paul DOR [Applause] good evening again Council Ray pador from Ariel good evening every once in a while you guys keep on going back to the uh the myth that you're going to put this out to the people and the people are going to decide um you're causing the people to create a reaction and that reaction is to your action the people did not dissolve the MUA you did the people did not ask well let's see what the MUA is worth let's just throw it out there it's an asset let's find out what it's worth we've asked these questions from the time that they started getting talked about as uh Dena said you said you were going to dissolve the MUA for savings and yet Mr cartis who again is not here and the administration who again is not here never answered the question is savings now you want to sell the MUA and you don't have any answers other than and I know you guys don't really trust my math but it's really simple it's really really simple you didn't even have to write it down to be honest with you that's that's where it's going it's where it's going so here's two novel ideas that you have an opportunity to put the genie back in the bottle tonight one is there's nothing stopping you from putting the MUA back where it was as many people have recited to you it was never broken it ran so well that they had a $6 million emergency fund which Mr cartis referred to as a surplus it was emergency money that if something needed to be done with our sewer system it would be repaired and I'll never forget the words that Mr ctis used they have a $6 million budget and a $6 million surplus that's ridiculous we need to get rid of that so you basically got rid of them procured their money basically leaked half of it away you got $3 million sitting in your pocket first mua issue that needed to be done you went and bed 3 $100,000 I'm not wrong Mr marado please paor can you stop the clock for a second and I'll give you your full five minutes you have been saying this for the last year and a half that $6 million is with the township and it goes back to the residents in the form of tax relief and tax stabilization Mr Paul Doro you were here 17 years ago advocating for the desolution of the MUA do you recall that no you don't remember me being here oh absolutely no no you want to link if you wish to link me with somebody else I can do the same I want to know when you saw the light that it's it's a bad thing I also know when you used to over request the MUA regarding the contributions and the reimbursement that the employees would get you had issues with the MUA you had issues with the certification of the executive director but now now there's an opportunity okay to tune us up so I'll let you continue Mr Poo but I have a long memory I've been on here for a long time and I recall those that advocated and I recall those that advocated for that and you were one of them sir okay thank you please start the clock I'm pleased to hear that you feel like you're getting tuned up in any event well you have you do have a loose relationship with the facts let's keep let's keep to the clock that you so well uh keep an eyeball on so you can put the MUA back together a very well-run very efficient and I told Mr cartis to his face if you were so envious of their $6 million surplus why didn't you go to school and learn what they learned how to run a budget instead of increasing taxes every even number year and holding the line on Election years the other option you have is you are still in possession of the MUA former U employees and the sewage service another way of putting the genie back in the bottle is rather than handing this over for a $143 million which we will result in paying for you keep saying tax reduction I don't care what you call it if you think you're going to reduce taxes it's not never going to put money in people's pocket you may say that you lowered the tax more than you were going to raise it and we went through that before I'm just not tall enough to show where you guys have taken taxes but it's not going to put money in people's pocket and when the economy is bad so why don't you consider maybe running the sewage system if you got to raise prices it goes right back into our pocket not New Jersey American Waters if you have to do some infrastructure things it's all done in house once you let this once you let them get a hold of it you're we're done forever why don't you at least table this tonight at least table it see if you can't do a better job than New Jersey American Wood is proposing because we've seen what they're doing just about all over this country now I fully expect and I have been one of uh the people of five or six people that come to every meeting this room was packed to the gills when you're raising taxes and truth be told it doesn't matter what they say you hear them but you're not listening I guarantee you you guys will approve this tonight this will move on you find a really meticulous way to put this onto the resolution uh onto the ballot and there will be no winners you're going to pay it too but it doesn't seem like like you care table it table it because you don't I just don't think you're aware how much our bills are going up I have four more years left before I'm retired okay my wife's looking for houses in North Carolina she wants to get the hell out of here as quickly as she can and I don't know if the New Jersey exit taxes so around but we're going to find a way around that too but I like this town I like some of you guys I hate what you due to us I hate it a lot but you the last thing that we that I want to say before my clock runs out as you keep saying Mr Nash we're going to give this back to the people we're going to let them decide well how about you decide talking for us why don't you make that decision you want to leave it up to the people we elected you to do that why don't you do the best thing if nothing else vote no or table it have more discussion because this ain't ready and we're not ready for the tax increases that we're about to see thank you Mr paoro Miss [Applause] Point Denise coin choose Landing um um first of all I'd like to address Mr nesha's comment that 60,000 people are going to vote for this there aren't 60,000 voters in Gloucester Township there's kids kids don't vote okay kids will be affected by this they don't get to vote but they'll be affected by this there's roughly 50,000 voters in glester Township of those 50,000 a third of the came out to vote last year onethird that hardly represents gluster Township of that third twoth thirds were Democrats so it seems to me like this is an effort to justify a predetermined decision because you know and everybody on this Council knows how voting Works in Gloucester Township the Democrats have won for how many years in a row now 16 17 maybe year after year after year after year which leaves a large percentage of the population unrepresented okay so there's that the residents of this Township will not decide a few people of this Township will decide for the majority that's hardly democracy okay so there's that um as far as not having a history in New Jersey of how this will affect rates and rate increases there's a long history in Pennsylvania this is has been happening in Pennsylvania since 2016 and there's an article from November 7th 2023 that was done by the New Jersey Monitor and it says um the new push to privatize sewer Services follows the passage of a state law in 2016 that allows the dollar value of Wastewater systems to include not just pipes and plants but Market factors such as the Worth to the community allowing them to be sold at much higher prices the deals provide a short-term cash boost for local governments which can struggle to cover the cost of Aging infrastructure structure but critics say the public services and tax savings that governments might provide residents with the quick money do not make up for the rate hikes a phenomenon know known as taxing through the TA big water tells municipal offals you're going to get free money that's a lie the money is going to be paid for by the rate payers the community group uh protested the 2020 sale of the Wastewater system in New Garden Township a community of 11,000 residents um Aqua Pennsylvania was buying it they were buying it for fair market value and um it says research was published last year in the wood policy the Journal of uh the international Think Tank World water Council that the United States 500 largest water systems and found that private ownership was the most significant variable and driving up utility bills even more than aing aging infrastructure water supply and local regulations and it says historically the sale price of regulated Water Systems has been determined by Book value of their assets including pipes and treatment plants but the these new state laws enable outside appraisers to incorporate other factors such as the systems value to the community that has allow the system to sell for many more times than what they're worth and we pay for that we will end up paying way more than what the sewer is worth and we already own the sewer we shouldn't pay it dying for it and it says for local governments the higher prices fall under the fair market model make it enticing to seller their infrastructure structures and the wood companies want higher sale price as well higher Acquisitions payments allow the companies to charge higher rates to recover those costs driving up profits which are determined by a percentage of their Investments so it's in the sell's best interest and the buyer's best interest to get the highest price possible and the residents and the taxpayers are the ones that suffer and Pennsylvania is now introducing Les legislation to try to undo the damage that has been done through privatization so my question to you is why would you subject the residents that you're supposed to represent to something that is proven to be a bad idea in Pennsylvania 2016 is when it started so there's a long history there and the history is not good thank you thank you m coin we're going to take a five minute recess we'll be back in five minutes was going to be a presentation obviously not so there's no presentation Mr Nash is not going to give us a presentation of his finding Mr Mardo just told me that so you won't get any facts tonight if you're looking for facts they're not going to be coming out [Music] this they milon say I had your best answer we knew it was going was yeah I think that's what they're on might [Music] [Music] just for you great go [Music] oh [Music] a war yeah thank you [Music] [Music] why that way treat right now [Music] yes seven [Music] yeah okay ready [Music] all right we'll reopen our uh public hearing we were in the back for people that yes Miss [Music] Kev C I still live in Glen Oaks so I just have a couple of things I am asking you for my heart for you to open your hearts if ears open or not whatever every day in our Township and this is a fact because I see it I come to me we have senior citizens who can't afford their medications who can't afford food and they have to choose or they get cat food and dog food and eat that and then we as the medical people are trying to resolve the issues that come from that we have families who are unable to feed their children the only meals that they get are meals that they get at school in this day and age our people should not have to suffer like that and if we are going to take this and prioritize it to somebody else American water and we all know that the bills will go up we are then basically sentencing our senior citizens our young parents to I don't care if you can feed your family or not I don't care if you can afford your medication so when we're looking to do this I think we really seriously need to look at that there are many other ways of getting money I am willing to pay more for my sewage Bill keep it inside I'm sure most people here would be willing to pay more for their sewitch bill I heard it brought up about lights lived in many other states because my husband was in the military I've lived in many other towns what we did we went to our businesses and said hey I need some lights from my soccer field those business people were more than willing to give the money all we had to do was put their name there I'm sure if we went to all of our businesses in this area we could bit lights or whatever else we needed for our sports teams there are a lot of ways of getting and earning the money that we need and I'd like us to start doing that and really consider what we're doing to our senior citizens and to our families that aren't making it now what is going to happen to them thank you anyone on this side has not spoken yet Mr O Donald good evening Jano Donnell the historic village of Ariel next to Mr palidoro um so over the past many years I have taken your Capital budgets um thrown them all in the spreadsheet taken samples of certain projects opra the receipts for those projects at least $3 of them every one of the receipts added up to 33% less than what was borrowed so when people talk about over borrowing that's something that I have taken a look at and it absolutely is a thing um and then they have also proven many people out here have proven how you early borrow where you borrow and don't do a project three or four years um so if this goes through and you take that money and you pay down the debt what are you going to do different to not put us $67 million in debt again it's it's a real question okay so we'll eliminate all the debt of $60 million in our annual in our budget now we have a current $9 million in annual Debt Service so essentially interest on a credit card um what you I get I get what's there I know what's there what are you going to do different questional could please let me I just want to know what you're going to do different I don't want you to tell me what's there ask if you're gonna ask me a question you're gonna give me an opportunity to respond I would like you to answer the question I Mr yes sir are you allow me to respond I will allow you to answer the question I asked yes please I'm G to start again can you stop the clock if you're going to talk about other things okay then you can answer it when I'm done cuz I have a couple more things that continue take your five minutes I apprciate not allow me to respond so please continue absolutely so um I was watching the live stream and I heard you guarantee the residents that we won't pay for any cleanouts if they're necessary you said it's on the live stream you said it's in public you said it's in the minutes of the meeting you absolutely guarantee that residents would not have to pay for that I I also heard someone say that there are two different ways that this can come about one is on the ballot and I'll call the other one the back doorway if you think the infrastructure is bad so will you guarantee tonight that if this does not pass on the ballot that you will absolutely not do it the backd door way say the infrastructure is bad and do it another way and protect the residents from this if they vote no I'm done asking questions thank you for your time so you're not going to answer or anything I'm going to respond but your time is done thank you for your time in regards to the cleanouts in regards to the cleanouts yes those cleanouts will be performed by Public Works uh that wasn't my question and in addition to that uh there are two ways to sell utility this this first way is putting on a ballot again this is not the first time this has been brought up in our Township uh this provides transparency it is on the ballot and individuals have an opportunity to vote yes or no on that in regards to the other way in determining that our uh sewer system or infrastructure is uh I guess terrible in disrepair uh that is not something and Avenue that we're going to pursue anyone else anyone else that has not spoken on this side that would like to speak that we're going to go on this side anyone like to speak on this side that has not spoken bar Barry salvator Hicktown Road cerville uh quick question American Water they're going to spend $90 million on upgrading our infrastructure that's correct what is it that they have to spend 90 million on the years you said we were looking at roughly $18 million uh they have identified certain projects I was trying to uh indicate that earlier to a previous resident but he wasn't interested in knowing are you interested in knowing what absolutely okay sir because my fear is that a 90 million investment into infrastructure means excessive developments you say excessive development meaning we find more land and build more houses tow houses and condos and warehouses and storage facilities and dispensaries there there's a list and I didn't mean this sound sarcastic and I apologize for that okay yeah I'm bear with me for one second I'm just grabbing where they identify while you look can I address Mr Nash for a moment oh absolutely Mr Mr Nash so you were talking about research that you guys have all been doing okay and you weren't able to find it you heard from this gentleman right here that his insurance policy to maintain his waist lines went from $5 to 27 did am I correct with that approximately $27.99 so that should give you an idea of what residents are going to have to pay because we all know that American Water charges for the services that they have to perform so the first thing they're going to do is send every resident a bill to for sure just like South Jersey Gas does like Atlantic City Electric does and I'm sure Aqua does for your water and all that I have it well so I'm safe for the time being from that but so you just have an idea now some this is somebody who's living it right now the increase so I just I just wanted to make sure you were aware of that well I mean I don't like to work of speculation just because that goes up doesn't mean something else is going to go up I like to work with facts not saying it's going to go up you're talking about an insurance line insurance and now you're talking about a Wastewater utility it's two different things I'm not saying it's not going to go up I don't know I don't know but what but for you to compare it to it's like saying it's compare it to a gallon of milk maybe that went from $2 to 509 all right and has utility going up I don't know what what are they what's the cost to take care of the cows their utilities are going up but your utility hasn't changed and the price of milk hasn't CH hasn't increased right my utility go thing is your comparing things that shouldn't be compared we don't know the facts yet because there are no facts in the state of New Jersey with New Jersey American Water that's all I'm saying what made so um why is nobody from American Water here to answer our questions because hopefully they would have answers that we need just out of curiosity you wouldn't want American Water here would you want American Water answering questions for you if I had if I had them sitting right here then what would you say exactly what I'm saying because no no no no no there this is um I'm going to respond to you regarding what their 90 $90 million so their capital investment Improvement Pro improvement over the first 10 years the following projects will take place in the first seven years replacement of the Glen Oaks fayan Drive Steven Drive and Mayfair pump stations based on the age in need as identified in the R&B engineering Report replacement of the 20ft force mean associated with the or Road Pump Station to ensure proper conveyance replace repairment of the Force main associated with a pierced battery pump station relocation of the Summerdale Road Pump Station to accommodate construction of a new bridge Culvert immediately adjacent to the lift station and a comprehensive analysis of the entire Wastewater system that will inform development execution of a high priority sewer main Rehabilitation and replacement program that is the things they had identified in their bid page 33 and 34 of their projects in the first seven years in the first seven years first seven years what were we looking at doing for 18 million I don't have that information on me okay I just didn't know how how much it was off from what they were doing um and did anybody get to add up the figures that uh Ray gave to give his comparisons for what increases would be and what the Necessities would be to main no one no I didn't know if anybody did I checked it and used the numbers of residents and the amount of the sale and what they from the time that he spoke no I just didn't know if anybody had calculate up there and did it I apologize no thank you very much for your time all right thank you anyone on this side that has not spoken yet anyone on this side that like to speak that has not spoken yet that would like to speak Mr leader you've had your hand up you're speaking again David leader glendor hington Avenue I come from a business background everything that I proposed to my management had to have pros and cons it had to have a study I had to prove the worth we had to do return on [Music] investment I don't hear the council has done due diligence I've been coming here for six months listening for due diligence been coming here to find out what are the pros and cons in the minds of the council who unanimously unanimously voted yes for this transition I don't know any facts Mr Nash seems to think he has some facts and we can only compare to other unknown things that don't match Apples to Apples I understand that my management when I was running a business wouldn't allow that either but you look me in the eye and you and the camera look me in the eye and tell me that you've looked at pros and cons you've looked at what's going to happen to the employees what's going to happen to the rates in the future that you thought about all that you investigated all that in six months which is a consultancy you'd have to pay to get that information you don't have the B basis of information to make a decision today you didn't yesterday you didn't in January there are no PR and cons coming forth from Council I respectfully disagree Mr leader if I sat here and extoled all the virtues of why this should be sold they would say the fix is in I have not I have remained neutral on this matter I have talked about what would be uh if what would happen or occur if this property if the asset was sold it is going on the November ballot the residents of gler Township will determine how we proceed if it's no then we still keep the sewer utility will there'll be Capital Improvements made to it absolutely could rates go up absolutely which are not monitored by the Board of Public Utilities not monitored well you trust yourselves excuse me you trust yourselves to make sure the R so so yes this has been seen at it has been vetted over the last six to seven eight months and there are pros and conss to it but when there was a resident ask how come it's not in the newsletter if I put that in the newsletter or ask the the administration to put that in the newsletter okay this is something they're advocating for it no we're going to let the residents determine what is best for them yes sir I agree with everything you said however there's been a number of examples tonight of where due diligence by the town's people provided information that apparently you had no access to so there's been studies the town's people held two meetings on this subject which have been a great opportunity for you to inform yourselves of what the other side of the picture might look like not one of you attended to my knowledge somebody put posters on car windows that were defamatory to the people who were in the township trying to make a point of gathering more information there was an advoc advy advocacy woman from the state of New Jersey who spoke to us and gave us a lot of information that was not available otherwise there were Professionals in the industry who spoke to us and led us down the path of looking at consequences as well as benefits you have not done any of that thank you thank you is there anyone else that would like to speak that's not spoken on this side Mr Allen Joe Allen Poli Courville a moment ago you said that you were that this was gonna go on ballot did you already decide behind closed doors or no Mr Allan we did not decide behind closed doors what their opinions are okay Mr Allen okay it's a fair point right yes we went back there okay we're going to do this and throw it on the ballot okay so it gives an opportunity for residents to vote for it on the ballot on November 5th GNA go on the ballot though if there is a if there is a vote tonight at the end of this this hearing and we move forward and then it will be placed forwarded to the clerk's office Canam County Clerk to be on the November ballot that's if a vote goes forward of this body okay just want to clarify because yes thank you for the clarification I do appreciate it nice to see you Mr Alan it's nice to see you too yes is anything else no I just want conversation no anyone else that has not spoken on this side that would like to speak uh is that Miss coin [Music] the he coin choose Landing first um I would like clarification earlier you were asked about the organizational chart of the township and you said the residents were at the top I remember looking at the organizational chart and the residents weren't on it at all no that's my opinion that the residents are on top okay that's an opinion they're not on the chart all right well in my opinion the residents are on top okay but they're not on the chart okay correct I don't have Mr lead is holding something up I don't have an organizational chart in front of me okay they're not on the chart at all they don't appear anywhere all right okay um as far as the 90 million of improvement that um New Jersey American water has identified that our Township needs that wasn't identified by our own Township Engineers Remington and Vernick and wasn't identified by the township so I'm not sure that those repairs actually need to be done but um if they do need to be done again we will pay for them um as evidence for that statement uh New Jersey americ wood has filed multiple petitions with the New Jersey Board of Public Utilities for rate increases across various programs and those programs were uh getting rid of the lead in the water lines okay so they said that needed to be done they did it they go to the Board of Public Utilities and they ask for a rate increase so they do $90,000 of repairs to our system we're going to pay for that and you can bet 90 million you can bet that they're going to go and ask for a reincrease there's also a bill that would allow them to bill in advance for any repairs that they plan on doing they don't even have to actually do them they just have to plan to do them and they could bill us for it so everybody needs to know that thank you Miss [Music] [Music] Hendry Dina Hendry summer I just want to know everybody here in the audience has taken their time for their night and decided to show up and I would have to say we have all spoken to everybody here with respect granted it has been with frustration but with respect but we are not getting the respect back we are getting gas lit we are getting bullied we are getting threatening conversations and that and you can roll your eyes at me but that's what we're getting I mean I am getting texts from people at home granted there's only about 65 watching but people at home who are saying oh my God is this how it's always does he talk to you guys like is this do they not listen prove them all wrong prove us all wrong here and say you know what we're going to put a pin in this we're going to listen to the people that are here tonight and say we are not putting this up for the vote the people have showed up everybody has said don't do it we have given you reasons whether it's the seniors whether it's the families who want to play sports whether it's families who have free and reduced lunch who can't afford to eat e lunch in school they're going to have to pay this but yet there's some of you who talk to us in a way that is disgusting okay you didn't like when I used a foul language word you gabbled at me if we can all gavel at you right now you would see it that it is absolutely disgusting how you treat the people who are top of the organizational chart so could you apologize and could we have a respectful conversation Miss hry I have not gaslit anybody I have not bullied anybody I have provided respect to everyone has has been at that microphone I there may be questions and responses that people don't like the responses to it but I have not done anything things that you have said so there will not be an apology all right if you would like to apologize to council here for calling lying sacks of I should have said lying sacks of poop I'm really sorry anyone else on this side that has not spoken Mr paor and then we'll move to this side again Ray paor from Mariel uh just a quick question um um you were asked about the bid being clarified is that clarified bid going to be put back uh put up on the website from uh New Jersey American water for the 9% yeah for so people can read the most current most accurate it is indicated as 9% there uh there was Miss s you know you've gone over this bit and I have it here it's indicated as 9% it does not indicate compounded but they provideed clarification to it that is not comp pound at that 9% all right so basically what Mr Palmer had asked you and I think Mr colir had said that they were looking to get that squared away it is the most current updated and that'll be up in the on the website no the bid has not changed they provide a clarification that it no that the clarification are there I have a letter and I could we could provide that if anyone wants a copy of that that was sent to miss saror from New Jersey American Waters legal council it is 9% over five years not compounded and there'll be no clarification for people to view other than this it's here yes bid Remains the Same all right um I didn't intend on say anything else but I I want to just say what I've always felt when I come to these Council meetings uh and not many that I've missed for quite a few years um how regardless whether the room was filled where the line was out the parking lot every seat was taken talking about a tax increase um it's always been my feeling that you guys will sit here as long as you can run out the clock you've already have your minds made up you already know how you're going to vote and you're going to vote either however you see fit whatever you were told to vote you can think about that yourself and yet there's been enough people that have come before this microphone pleading with you to represent us and maybe you don't think enough people in this room to represent the rest of the town or who knows what you're going to tell the seniors to get them to vote uh on this resolution but I still find you know coming from Philadelphia politics you know it's just my opinion at least to have good honest corrupt politicians over there but how seven members of a council coming from different parts of the Town different upbringing he can all think exactly the same and how it's funny that when you have a public meeting you don't even ask questions amongst one another um I think at this point the last person I have ever seen to think differently is no longer on council Mrs stubs she dared to say no one time she's not on Council anymore but again different different faces different voices different minds but yet it's all like a mind numb Collective these all do the same thing and think alike and you'll do the same thing tonight maybe you set it up and rehearsed it where somebody's going to vote no or two won't but we'll still get a majority but it's just it's it's tough you know I would love to retire in this town no way will I be able to do that I just you guys can't pick my pockets after I retire because I won't have anything new coming in but uh maybe I'm getting going to ask you table it talk about this is not a rush thing it might be a rush for the millions of dollars that need to change hands but we're the ones that are going to be paying the bills just think about it individually think about it thank you anyone else on this side yes ma'am hi again Jess Blackwood um can we have your last name you didn't provide it the first time oh it's in well bogey but I did email you that article so if you check your email right now I don't check my email dur the next break uh you said about the 25% discount for the seniors yes um I don't really see the benefit of that because I mean right now it'd be a great benefit for her because it's like 15 bucks a month so she'd pay around 11 bucks a month but I mean if we get acquired by American water and it goes up to 40 she'd pay 30 if it goes up to 70 she'd play pay 52 if it goes up to 90 she'd pay 67 all those numbers are more than 15 so a 25% discount isn't really helping her fixed income or any other senior in this room as for mailers we're just asking why didn't you send out mailers that you were going to have these conversations tonight like why didn't we get a flyer in our mail that said hey we're thinking about selling we're GNA have a meeting Nobody Knows the only reason people know is because we're out here telling them you aren't telling them I get it you don't want to like act like you uh really want to do it so you don't want to put out like feelers like you want it so you don't put out mailers but you should put out mailers saying hey we're going to have a meeting hey this is going to be on your ballot this November like there's no mailers but yet every time there's an election season I get all these mailers in the mail that you want to be reelected and all these mailers that all your opponents are like not real Democrats or like they're bad Republicans because they made a Facebook post that was bad or whatever so like if we have the the campaign funding to do those types of mailers why don't we have mailers that say hey we have a desire to sell something that we have owned for decades and if you want to talk about it here's where we'll be as for I mean the other thing with taxes my taxes increased this summer by $200 my neighbor back there his taxes increased 300 bucks you say that if the and that's before the sale has even gone through if the sale go goes through what's what's the tax we'll get back like did you take 200 from me so you can give me 50 back did you take 20 so you could get so I could get 25 back like you put up my number so even if you take it down by 2050 it's still more than what it was before right now like it's not a savings if you even do it ever um as for improvements again I agree with everybody else I feel like is ours it's been ours for many generations since before I was ever born or lived here we should take responsibility for our own stuff and take care of it the communities I grew up in still have their own water and their own Wastewater AO hamton those are the places I come from they still have their own water and their own Wastewater and they're able to provide just fine I don't get why we can't do that here we have more residents that that should mean more money to get these things done ourselves take responsibility for our own fixes and another thing I mean the only reason people aren't here tonight is because I mean most don't know again no mailers the other thing is a lot of people work my husband isn't here because he works late he's a UPS driver he's out till nine o'clock at night he'd love to be here he can and then the third reason is I have friends that I asked to come and they're like we don't want to come because they're just going to vote that they're going to do it anyway so why come I begged my friend down the street I've known her forever I convinced her to come to this Township a couple years ago because I said come be my neighbor we'll have fun now I feel bad because I got her wrapped up in all this and already she's got the brainwash in her head like many other people that there's no reason to come because nobody will listen and she's only been here a couple years um I guess I guess that's it thank you um can I just what's the answer why why wasn't there a mailer telling people that that you had a desire or sell so the any cost that we will incur is for the transaction so we get a a $200,000 payment um from American Water uh and that goes towards legal counsel or any other type of uh transaction that took place on this time period um when you talked about Flyers that go out in for political campaigns those are funded by political organizations Democrats Republicans or whoever it may be um when a comment was made about why not have this in the township newsletter that's something that I'll I'll speak to the business administrator about but I I I if this goes forward and this is put on the ballot I would imagine American Water will engage in a education process uh over the next few months American Water not the township which doesn't feel like a great idea because American Water obviously wants to buy it so their mailers are going to be a little skewed there should just be a neutral mail that comes from the township and that is why American water is not here today I'm not going to have American Water here this is a Township thing this is the ordinance and we're hearing from the residents and then what happens at the end of the night determines what happens on November 5th but unfortunately there was no mailer so most citizens aren't here our meetings are advertised on our this on our website and also on our Facebook page they're pretty hard to find and what Facebook page are you talking about because the gser township page only tells me when farmers markets are and when there's summer stage in the park I never have seen on that page that you guys are having a meeting okay I'll follow up with our social media people thank you yes sir Tony Janeiro again ster Avenue Blackwood Mr micado as the chair you've got a lot of responsibility and I want to believe that you're a fair man it's my understanding that this meeting was held so we could sway your mind into voting our conscience am I correct with that this this meeting is held to provide public comment and our public comment is geared up to s you one way or another like you said you did not make up your mind as to vote Pro or con am I correct I have over the last six months have not say this is something we have to do or this is something we can't do I just again what I what I I'm agreeing that's that's what I'm I'm I provided is this is will happen if it if the sale go and I believe that you possibly may have misspoke when you said this was going on the ballot I don't believe you meant to say that because again you said that your mind was not made up and it's it's our job and we've done I think we've done a pretty good job into letting the council members know how we feel now granted I've been at this meetings where you could barely get in here I don't know why there's not enough people here tonight Flyers granted somebody's going to pay for the Flyers to get the words out and of course it can't come out of your your budget because we're already in the red getting back to that the MUA had a surplus so they were operating beneficially to our community and it comes down to our community we live here I can't afford to move I mean I came here from California because again I like it here but it all comes down to Dollars and cents and you know our our elderly people even even those of us that are working our asses off you know when they decided to raise minimum wage it didn't benefit me any they didn't raise my salary commensurate with everybody who was making $7 an hour to now making $15 an hour I would have loved my salary to double but they they sure raised the price of McDonald's Wendy's every everything you have to pay for we go to shop right I used to pay $17 for bag of animal treats now I'm paying $23 for the same bag now granted okay we a lot of people said well it's co co this supply chain issues this but again it comes down to you guys and comes down you guys work for us we put you in Mr I voted for you I'm going to break I'm going to break my anity I voted for you thank you Tony I appreciate it and would I do it again if I continue to believe you're a fair person I may do that again if not maybe someday I may take a seat up there but then again I'll be working to about 90 anyway to be able to afford not living here it comes down to this you're supposed to speak for us you're supposed to vote our conscience our Collective here has all been against privatizing maybe they need better management skills in administration or we wouldn't be in such a deficit you said we were $64 million down well it didn't happen overnight and by taking American ERS money and privatizing we're all the ones that going to suffer you too because your rates are going to go up too so at the end of the night vote your conscience look at yourself in a mirit you know do you want to take care of us or do you want to put a knife on our back I don't believe you want to do that because again ramifications happen all down the line and it's all going to come out of our pockets I mean I don't want to move but someday I may not be able to afford to live here a lot of our seniors have are being forced to sell going into nursing homes because they can't keep their houses every other community that I've seen American War take over has had their go up you've had somebody show you Pennsylvania's numbers now granted maybe we don't have all the information on New Jersey's numbers but maybe that's something we can find out and I believe we shouldn't be so hastily to give something away that's an asset if it's an asset and the MUA is actually made money that be able to roll over and give to our Township damn it keep the damn thing thank you for your time thank you very much is there anyone else that would like to speak Mr leader and then Mr shocky will be our last [Music] speaker members of council I'm new to your meetings I've lived here for a number of years my father-in-law lived here his whole life my wife and I now living house that he bought in New Jersey you all live here but you need to look in the mirror and ask yourself if you've truly done the due diligence to make this proposal in the first place secondly I've been trying to get involved with working meetings with councel I've asked for a calendar schedule working meetings and I haven't seen any I for a working meeting about the desolution of the MUA that never happened to my knowledge if it did I'd stand corrected I asked for a working meeting when you were proposing that we give our assets to a for-profit p uh private company I got no working meeting notices about that so have you really worked with the public here have there been working meetings where the details from the public from yourselves can be made known and then advertised in minutes that's due diligence that's working with your public I don't think you've done that this is an opportunity for you to not let the genie out of the bag once you sell it it will cost you triple as much to buy it back you're done when you vote tonight it's over if you vote to sell sewer division you'll never get it back all the assets your taxpayers including yourselves have paid all those years with the MUA and a the benefits of having a well-run mua that had $6 million in reserve for emergencies and wasn't there an emergency right after you folded the MUA into the sewer division didn't the main break and instead of using some of that $6 million dollar that they had in reserve didn't you get a loan I don't know that for a fact but you must know you must know what you voted to approve so if you had an efficient profit making mua who knew how to plan and have a reserve account for emergencies why would you consider giving up that resource at all now let me go switch tracks when I saw the bid's response from American Water I was impressed at that moment I would have said darn right infrastructure is expensive maintenance of infrastructures expensive they're buying that expense from us that makes so much sense we should sell it and then I attended to two public forums and found out that's not the way it works they're a for-profit company they're not looking out for us they're looking out for their shareholders and themselves sure there may be infrastructure things needed in our Township if you communicated with the people of your Township about more than cutting ribbons and having having uh Parks improved communicate this bad stuff too that's your job we hired you to run the township your job is to look at the good and the bad and inform your public both ways you haven't done that in the last six months look in the mirror tonight and ask yourself if you've done that in the last 6 months that you've had a work working meeting about this transition that you've had a working meeting about the previous transmission it's my understanding that public can attend the working meetings I'd like to attend them I can't find them advertised I've been told that they've been cancelled most cases I don't know if that's true or not could be hearsay but I knew I I do know I want to be involved with the town's decisions and you have not allowed me to do that thank you Mr leader you should vote to table it until you have much more information tonight thank you Mr sh thank you again thank you rather for the second chance um appreciate everything that Mr leader just said um I think in my opinion Michael Shuck w abine drive my opinion I believe that this meeting has proven the council does not have all the facts to clearly vote that this ordinance should be put on the ballot my opinion hopefully some of you share that same opinion but from where I said from what I heard all night I don't believe you have the facts so in my opinion if if you don't have the information if you don't have all the facts how do you expect that the residents of the township are going to be able to make an informed intelligent decision while you putting arm the ballot there's no way if you all don't know the facts then how are the residents going to be able to make a proper and intelligent decision have to say thank you with that will close the hearing's time I miss hry J miss hry you don't run the meeting Miss Henry I had asked I'm sorry I had asked if anyone would like to speak any additional and identify two individuals we're closing the hearing you're freaking dict ordinance the second reading of public hearing I'll reread the ordinance again ordinance D 0-24 d17 I demand to be heard Mr leader I'm 78 years old yes I appreciate life experience I got my hand up I demand to be heard people let be heard there's no shouting out please I had asked for the last two speakers and they were identified Mr leader thank you so ordinance second reading public hearing ordinance 0- 24-17 warrant of the township of bler and the county of C New Jersey approving agreement of sale between the township and New Jersey American Water Company for the sale of the Township's Wastewater collection and conveyance system and authorizing a proposal to be printed on the ballot for consideration by the voters within the township at the general election on November 5th 2024 providing for the sale the town's Wastewater system to New Jersey American Water Company I entertain a motion I'll make that motion is there a second on the question roll call please Mr yes Mr n so um first off just to respond to some people here we did extensive research on the facts that are available today after doing that research uh and taking in all your comments and into consideration sorry paying off the town's debt hiring the 23 uh employees with equal pay and benefits having a rate protection in place for five years discounts for seniors property tax stabilization Pro possible reductions taking all that into consideration I appreciate what you guys are here to to say I appreciate all your thoughts but I still believe that this is up to the voting population of cler Township to decide it's not up to this this population here it's not up to this population here I am also an mua customer I pay the same rate to you guys I have a kid going to the college and I have a kid in high school I have bills too I don't want to see this this rate go up just as much as you don't but what I do decide as an elected official it is our duty to hear the voice of every single voting person in the township and we would not be doing our a service if we just took a small population of what we hear so everything you said is recorded it's it's it's live this is it's it's great information so thank you but I still believe it should be on the ballot for the entire population to vote so I vote Yes W Mrs W Mr Mar [Music] yes entertain a motion to adjourn I'll make that motion is there a second all those in favor [Music] [Applause] have a great evening already Deon why