How are you? Any second? How are you? Um, how was your thing on Saturday? right now. I just appreciate you not let me person but I would rather give you feedback.
Absolutely. And then there's no misunderstanding. Yeah, that's important. That's why I appreciate everyone. Good. You're welcome. You guys ready? Yep. Please rise for the pledge of
allegiance, please. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Good evening.
This regular meeting of the township council is being held in accordance with the schedule of the meetings of the township council established and adopted by the township council which schedules designated the time and date and place of this meeting. Adequate public notice of this meeting has been provided
pursuant to the provisions of the open public meetings act. We are using electronic amplifying and recording device in order to obtain a clear and audible record and request all those wishing to speak be recognized and state your name and address directly to the microphone. The recording device be utilized by the township clerk's office
for the preparation of minutes and shall be the official record of the township council meetings. Madam clerk, may the roll call, please. Mr. here. Mrs. Albbright Troxel here. Mrs. Grace Love here. Mr. Nash here. Mrs. Walters here. Mr. Castro here. Mr. Marcato present.
Mr. Carlamir here. Mr. Cartis here. Deputy Chief Manazi here. Mr. Miguel here. Mrs. Corbin here. Uh before we go to the public portion, uh I have a couple housekeeping items. Uh there's an addendum to the agenda.
It's in yellow. It's on the bulletin board appointing a member to the Glouster Township zoning board of adjustment. Uh so that'll be added to the agenda. In addition, this morning, the clerk's office received an email uh from Robert
Mintz. Robert Mintz is the attorney for a project known as the FMA Real Estate Investments at 120 East Church Street uh requesting uh that this be tabled this evening. The uh developer had additional
work. They wanted to make some changes to their particular project. So we will be tableabling well a motion will be to table that ordinance 02520 until further notice. We'll now open up the uh public portion. This is for agenda items only. Anyone
wishing to speak, please raise your hand. Each speaker is entitled to three minutes. There's a total of 15 minutes for the first public portion. After the public portion is completed, we'll respond to questions or comments. Anyone
like to speak on agenda items only? Mr. Leader Dave Leader, Huntington Avenue, Glendor. This weekend I was or Friday I was looking at the uh the agenda for today's meeting from
the township website and um I saw that R-259-322 called for uh resolution authorizing payment of bills. So, I had recently received the
instructions on how to find those documents. It's not easy. Um, it's all the way at the bottom of a whole bunch of other stuff. Word search didn't work to find them. But in any event, I did find them. And
the computer printouts were not po posted on the website. The last posting was for August and so I suggest that the council table
this resolution I guess it's called um because the public has not had a chance to review the computer printouts that are posted on the website. Is there anyone else? Seeing none, we'll close the uh first
public portion that was brought to our attention, Mr. Leader, that the bill list was not uh posted on Thursday afternoon. Uh each council member receives the bill list along with the agenda on Thursday afternoon. The request was made uh for that to be
posted on our website. It was not posted until I believe early this afternoon. Um so uh there needs to be a better job in posting that on our website. So I apologize for that. Before we go to reading the accepted
minutes, uh we also have a um proposal from Remington and Vernick regarding a uh scope of services and cost proposal for preparation of a preliminary investigation for the termination of area need of redevelopment for block
18302 lot 5. This in conjunction to a project uh on Williamstown Road. Is that correct, Miss Miss Corbin? Williamstown Road. Uh and Remington Bernick is our engineer record. So, this is for a lump
sum fee of $8,840 to complete this work. Um this is a straw poll. Madam clerk, may I have the roll call, please? Mr. Mo, yes. Mrs. Aubrey Troxel, yes. Mrs. Grace Love, yes. Mr. Nash, yes. Mrs. Walters, yes. Mr. Castro. Yes. Mr. Marcato.
Yes. Uh, wave the reading. Accept the minutes of the workshop August 11th, 2025. Council meeting August 11, 2025. And council meeting August 25th, 2025. May I have a motion, please? I'll make that motion. Second on the question. Roll call, please.
Mr. Mone, yes. Mrs. Albert Troxel? Yes. Mrs. Grace Love? Yes. Mr. Nash? Yes. Mrs. Walters? Yes. Mr. Castro? Yes. Mr. Marcato? Yes. Uh, next is the ordinance second reading public hearing ordinance 0-25-20. Again, ordinance to the township of
Gloucester County of Cam State, New Jersey, adopting amendments to the Blackwood West redevelopment plan in accordance with the local redevelopment housing law NJSA4A128-1 at SEC. Uh, again, there are two components to this ordinance. Uh, one is to have six town homes, four apartments,
and a commercial space uh on the on the site of the former PNC drive-thru, and then also a med spa on Blackhorse Pike. Uh, one of the applicants has asked if we could table this. So, I'm going to seek a motion to table this ordinance till further notice. I'll make that motion to table.
Second. On the question. Roll call, please. Mr. Minion, yes. Mrs. Albreight Troxel. Yes. To table. Mrs. Grace Love. Yes. Mr. Nash, yes to table. Mrs. Walters, yes. Mr. Castro, yes to table. Mr. Marcato,
yes to table. Next is our consent agenda. Any items that any council would like to have removed, please speak up. Hearing none, I entertain a motion to accept the consent agenda as presented. Second on the question.
Roll call, please. Mr. Minion, yes. Mrs. Albreight Troxel, yes. Mrs. Grace Love. Yes. To consent agenda. Mr. Nash, yes. Mrs. Walters, yes. Mr. Castro, yes. Mr. Marcato, yes. Resolution 330, resolution appointing
members to the Gloucester Township Zoning Board of Adjustment. May I have a motion, please? Motion. Second. Second. On the question. Roll call, please. Mr. Minion. Yes. Mrs. Albert Troxel. Yes. Mrs. Grace Love.
I'm sorry. Can you repeat again? Council President, this here resolution points to the zoning board. Oh, yes. Yes. Zoning board. Mr. Nash. Yes. Mrs. Walters. Yes. Mr. Castro. Yes. Mr. Marcato.
Yes. Uh, we did not receive a GTE gov access email, but I received an email not under the format of a gtegov access. Uh for those that aren't familiar, if you cannot make a council meeting, you can send in a uh
we have a mechanism where you can send an email in and that question will be responded to uh at our council meeting. Uh the individuals that is here that sent that question in and we're going to respond to her questions. Uh Miss Jentilly, you are here in the audience. Do you would you like to read those
questions or would you like me to read it now? Can your time during the second public portion? Okay. Thank you. I'll go for it. All right. So, I have been trying for this is from Nancy Kelly Gentilli from 210 Keystone
Avenue. I have been trying for three days to get additional information on the community solar energy program from Solar Landscape. I have been unsuccessful, no call backs, and I'm being told by Solar Landscape that I need to complete the online enrollment form to be told when this program may be
specifically available in Gloucester Township. My call was escalated to a supervisor for a call back, but I have still not received a call back. Since this letter originated with Gloucester Township mayor, I'm asking you to provide answers, please. Paragraph three
says a discount rate is guaranteed for 20 years but the solar company says is a monthly credit not a discount rate and may vary. Can you please explain? I was informed that the program may or could be available within a year but I'm not able to get specifics. Can you provide
any insight or when this program is available for immediate credit to electricity bills? If it is a year, wait. Why was a letter sent out to the residents if we are not able to enroll and receive immediate benefits? Paragraph six states, priority given to
residents who qualify as low to moderate income. Paragraph 7 states, benefits of solar energy are available to all residents regardless of where you live and regardless of income. Clarify if there's an income preference or not. I have a questions about the letter that
was sent to Gloucester Township residents. Who requested to be sent out? Who inhouse or what company prepared this letter? The letter head is incorrect as it lists Miss Wyinners as still being on council in August of 2025. Where was the address list
obtained from? How many of these letters were sent? How much did this solar landscape letter to the residents cost us? and did Gloucester Township residents pay for this letter to be sent out to us. This letter was sent to my address, but under my mother's name, she hasn't lived in Gloucester Township for
over four years and has been dead for over a year. I look forward to the answers at this meeting tonight. Thank you. Okay. Uh, Solar Landscape uh estimates that the discounts will begin appearing on PSEG or Atlantic City electric bills of enrolled household
starting this winter and continuing throughout 2026. Uh, in regard to the discount rate, just like a house with rooftop solar gets credit for the power that's generated by solar panels, community solar subscribers get solar credits for the
power that's generated by their share of the community solar project. With the support of state and federal renewable energy incentive, solar landscape provides uh clean power at discount and passes that savings on to the subscribers. Your electric bills, electric utility bills will include your
discounted solar credits which reduce what you owe on your electricity bill. The discount rate is guaranteed for 20 years and will never decrease. In regard to uh the letter not being able to enroll and receive immediate benefits, subscriptions and at least 15
and at least a 15% discount have limited availability. After enrolling, you'll receive an email from Solar Landscape when your assigned project is energized. Typically, it will take one to three billing cycles after your project is energized to begin receiving solar
credits on your bill. In regard to the qualify as a low or moderate income and uh the benefits or if there's an income preference, uh Community Soul is open to everyone. There's no income requirement to enroll. However, if you qualify as a
low or moderate income subscriber, Solar Landscape may be able to prioritize your enrollment so you can be receiving so solar credits sooner. Uh the request uh Solar Landscape responded
to a request for proposal and as a result of that they were selected and they sent the letter out on behalf of the mayor's office. Uh the letter was pre prepared in collaboration with the mayor's office. Unfortunately, it still had uh Councilwoman Wyers's name on it. She resigned at the end of June. Uh the
list was purchased that was provided was purchased by Solar Landscape from a third party data vendor. The geographic boundaries of New Jersey and address points of of New Jersey are publicly available available data. How many of these letters were sent? Approximately
24,000 letters were sent out. Uh there was no cost to Gloucester Township or Gloucester Township residents. the costs were borne by solar landscape. Uh and again, Glouster Township residents did not pay for this letter to be sent out. Our public portion uh is our second
public portion allows each speaker to speak up to five minutes. There's 30 minutes total in the public portion and each speaker is entitled to speaking one time. After that public portion ends, then we will address those
comments or questions. Yes, Danny Paris. Good evening, Miss Paris. Um, I haven't been here for a while, but I have a lot of questions. I don't want any answers tonight. Like to have the answers possibly the next meeting. I put in um four or five OPER reports. I got
back like no answers from Mr. Cardinal's office. Um, according to the O open act law, the sunshine law, just to let everybody know, you don't have to give your address. Um, you just have to give your name. So for that's for safety purposes now that we have such a violent
country. Um, and also anything that you have to put on for a closed meeting in the back has to be posted within either 48 hours of the next council meeting. Secondly, um August 31st and three times prior to that, the um what's it called?
You might want to take notes on this so that you can answer me the next time. Oh, I have notes. Thank you. Go ahead. The um Honey Grove marijuana shop has a tent outside and what they do is on August 31st was the third time from 10 to 8, they have a rock band. They sell
items outside and I was told that there's no permits that they have to get. Well, when I owned a gym here from 1993 to 2010, I had to have a permit for health fairs. So, my curiosity is why doesn't why doesn't a marijuana shop where there's children with their
families um between the marijuana shop and Cherrywood Liquors have to have permits outside to have events. That's number two. Number three, the gems landfill originally on top was
capped so that Blue Sky Solar Company and uh Sakarpia Capital, which Mr. Carlamir answered my question but incorrectly um was put up uh solar panels for 600 and originally supposed to be 684
homeowners. okay, the solar panels. But instead, what they did was it was a 7 megawatt solar plant that was put up there. Instead, what they did was they supplied the municipal buildings, this building, the police building, any
type of buildings, plus the ball fields and anything else that was for the township. The electric is supplied to all of you, and you don't have to pay an electric bill. Mr. Carlamir told me that what he got was 40,000
a year that they pay. They pay 40,000 a month. Where is that on the budget? If they pay 40,000 a month and they have a 25-y year lease, figure that out. That's 1.4 um I guess million dollars you're going
to get after 25 years. Where's that money? Why isn't that on the budget now? None of the electricity was generated to use power for the individual homes, the 684 homes that that would have supplied. Why did the
township get the money from Blue Sky and Sincarpia of the solar panels on top of the cap gems landfill, but the homes never got it? And that was the original agreement. New Jersey American Water. I called
today where our mayor works and I had a a a um talk with a Mr. McN. And I want to find out because a lot of our children in this town and our adults and our pets are actually getting cancer from the PFAAS in the chemicals from New
Jersey water and aqua water and they're dying of all types of cancers and they're and not only the children but um the pets and the animals. The man answered me and said, "Where would you find that information?"
I said, "Well, I don't know. I don't work for New Jersey American Water. our mayor does, wouldn't he know? Or wouldn't the company know? I mean, come on now. It's a big company. It supplied water to us for many years. Same thing with Aqua Water. And Aqua Water's toxic
chemicals right now has a five-year since 2015. The EPA's taken over that. And they've had arsenic, lead, copper at the last five-year check in 2024. It's supposed to be posted in these buildings. And I don't know why it's
not. When I asked Mr. Carlamare about the red zone at Cam County College, he said Cam County College has its own entity. It's not owned by Gloucester Township. Well, it is owned by Gloucester Township. They don't have to pay taxes to Gloucester Township, but they have to pay other bills to Gloucester Township. The red zone in
1987 to 2010 when I taught there as a college professor and as a trainer for the police department and I lived in that township, the water was shut off. And I'm sure uh Mrs. Troxel can remember that too cuz she worked there. We had no water because it was shut off
because the water was contaminated for all those years only in certain buildings. Well, no, it was all contaminated. Miss Paris. Thank you. Your time. You're welcome. I'll bring the rest up to the next meeting, but I'd like the answers to that. All right. Anyone else? Yes, sir. Behind Mr. Leader. Mr. Leader will be after the
gentleman. Brad McNeel, Ohio Avenue, Blackwood. Good evening. Good evening. So, I know it was table, but can we still talk about ordinance zero? Oh, absolutely. All right. Sweet. So, going through the the meeting from April, I recognize that
nobody came to the initial hearing. Let me just say it's not very easy to find what's going to be discussed. It's, you know, posted in a newspaper, which is a bit of an outdoor say, uh, outdated source. Uh, you can do it at a library. again, not too many people go to
libraries anymore. So on so forth. So even though nobody was there in August, it's kind of a big deal. So going back over the notes that you guys, I'm just going to start with um you guys talk about the density, right? Um
14 dwellings where four is permitted is is just crazy just crazy crazy, right? And then office recommends the redevelopment equity carefully considered a proposed density and consider the impact it will have on the established character of the neighborhood. I've been in Blackwood
estates for almost 20 years now. I've seen families move in few years later they get to do the reconstruction that they want. Then their kids are born, families grow. We do have a lot of character in this neighborhood and it's
very tight-knit. I mean, like I I coached her son in baseball and took fish with these guys neighbors. I mean, it's a big deal. And and as to the character of the neighborhood, it's like like playing a game of Monopoly, right?
And everybody has all the green houses and that first red hotel goes up and it just stands out like a sore thumb. It doesn't fit in. It doesn't work, right? It works for the guy getting paid, but not for everybody that can only afford the green ones, right? So, as far as the
character of the neighborhood, it's it's not a good fit. It's not a good fit. It's not a It doesn't bring value to it. Doesn't add value to our neighbors, our homes. It's a
It's just greed looking at and looking at what they're asking for that which is darn near everything right from you need two acres for what they're proposing. They only have 64 maximum building coverage 5%. They're
asking for five times more than that. Almost 27%. Max lot coverage 15%. They're asking for almost 75%. The these numbers are are almost in 13 feet to the to the black horse pike when you're going to walk down the street and
just run your hand against the wall. It It's like they're asking for this stuff and not even caring about what they're doing to the neighborhood. It's just at a certain point that the town homes got to be done across from Penote Tech
on Davistown Road. There's so much and there's there's areas for this stuff, but to try to fill every crevice with what makes the developer or the investor the most money for him and and his
partners without caring about the people that actually affects. It's it's just wrong in my opinion. and and I really think that if this which I hope it does not ever get pulled off the table, uh but if it does and that that
preliminary meeting is is held again and the the traffic is light like it was in August, I hope that you guys think about what they're asking. It's not for the town. It's not for the people. It's for that person, that company, and that's it. That's all they care about is how
much money they're going to get at the bottom line. and they're going to be on to the next one. So, um, I hope you take that in consideration and I appreciate your guys' time on this matter. Thank you, Mr. McNeel. Mr. Leader
Jared, you'll be after Dave Leader, Huntington Avenue and Glendor. Regarding the item on the consented agenda for the resolution authorizing payment of bills, is there a rule
uh a standard that the council must follow for notifying the public of the details to pay a bill? I mean, you guys just approved the bills being paid and the public hasn't had a
chance to see the details yet. So, yeah, it was told told that was published uh this afternoon, but the meeting is tonight. I didn't get a chance from my busy day to
read the uh the document about what what the details of the bill were on the computer reports, but you approved them anyway. I would think there would be a standard that you would have to follow that you could not without the public
notifi notification uh of the details of what you're approving be made public and that it should have been tabled. There must be a rule associated with that. There's government has rules for most things.
Um new subject Uh last week I spoke out of turn. I've apologized to President of Council. Um I I let my guard down and slipped
um for letting personal feelings get ahead of factual feelings. And I I apologize to Mr. Marcato, but I went back just now and read uh the rules
for this meeting and uh number seven at the end said that council's intent is to avoid back and forth exchange.
Now, if if that isn't an anti-transparent statement, I I don't know how it could be worded any softer. That is just saying we don't care what you have to say after we've had our say.
Just be quiet, sit back, and wait for the next meeting if you want to bring it up again. Another two weeks go by. I mean, I don't know how you could all vote for that. You This is This is
United States. This is New Jersey. This is Gluster Township. These are all our people, the public that you serve. And you're letting them down by not allowing them to have a
back and forth. It was in quotes exchange. This has got to stop. That has to be revised. You have to start respecting the p the public. The public will stop coming out to these
meetings again. If you don't start respecting them and allow for dialogue to go back and forth. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Leader. Jared, you had your hand up. Good evening. Uh Jared Thomas, uh
Cecilia Drive. I wanted to um uh bring the discussion back to the uh uh ordinance for the uh redevelopment plan. Um I just wanted to confirm and I understand it's in flux, but what was the original intent that the developer
had? Was it I I've seen eight units and then I saw six town homes and three apartments and online I saw 25 apartments. Is there what was the last one that was provided? Do you know Jarrett? After comments we'll respond. All right. Well, the reason I'm asking
is because like I think the current one that I saw posted on the township website with six town homes, three apartments, the retail space. to build off a previous um comment before, you know, the site is like 64 acres, which is surprisingly small for that much
development. I did want to ask a few questions though about it or at least raise these concerns to the council's attention so that they aren't omitted when if a redevelopment plan is put into place. Um the site is going to potentially be exempt from storm water
if the as long as like I guess the new impervious doesn't in uh exceed a quarter acre under the storm water rules. So if that happens though they're still going to technically be subject though to CCMUA restrictions with regards to um you know releasing storm
water from the site. My understanding is CCMUA doesn't allow any site to exceed the post-development condition for the 25-year storm event. So, in other words, they have to hold on to that storm water and I don't know where they would hold on to that storm water uh with that much
development happening on the site. Second question I had was with regards to parking. Um this was a comment that I brought up a couple of times. I brought up to Janisa as well as um at one some of the hearings associated with recreation
the you know the Blackwood you know redevelopment area where we're trying to build the art center and everything like my overall concern about that area is parking can suck at times when we're trying to have an event. We have a
couple of you know major parking lots in that area which are owned by private developers. They're completely unusable. the gym that got um you know where the right aid used to be, they did put up the signs that I knew that they would put up which bars you know public parking in that in those lots which as a
result means I'm driving past a lot with you know you know 50 parking spaces only 10 are being used. Um, I would encourage the council to consider like any development in the Blackwood West redevelopment area to consider strongly
like, you know, we're if you put up a parking lot over a certain size that it needs to allow for public parking, some sort of I don't know if it has to be like some sort of easement or something, but just to alleviate parking, allow more events to occur in these areas that
we've paved over so that we're not going past parking lots with, you know, you know, 50 spaces and only 10 being used by the private company. Like if we want to encourage people to walk, we have to give them a place to park that's relatively close to where they want to be.
Um, let me think. The only uh other question I had is it kind of builds off of the parking because I don't know how the heck they're going to meet RSIS requirements for that site with uh if it's nine units and uh probably like 2.1
parking spaces per unit. Um that's all I have. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Thomas. Does anyone else like to speak? Yes. Good evening. Good evening. Good evening. Dino Dico from Pennsylvania Avenue. I've
lived on Pennsylvania Avenue for 44 years. So, this uh redevelopment plan is uh certainly dear to me that it gets stopped because if I was to
ask anyone of this board, if they were going to put up a development of this size on your street that has been your residence where your kids have grown and your grandkids have grown and played, would you approve it? So my questions to
you are not just that, but what is this board's role in the approval process for amendments to our zoning requirements? What do you engage? Who's engaged? Your engineers? I mean, you guys are just
just like me. We go to work every day and we come home. You serve our community. who makes the decision to make these amendments. Your community will come out and support and reject it.
What happens then? Who still gets to see, yeah, we're going to ignore the public because this is good for our community. I'd like to know if you were going to approve a project like this, what are your considerations that you
use? Do you consider parking? Do you consider the fact that the water pressure? You may not be able to supply water to all the homes on that street now. You've got storm drainage. You've got parking.
Forget that. How many cars do you really think a three-bedroom town home has? I know when I was my kids were young, I had five or six cars parked out front. I
had four kids, when they all were driving, the wife and I, we had cars all over the place. And then don't forget the one that was broke down that I had to put on my lawn for a week, right? What happens when a car breaks down and your tenant or your homeowner has no
place to work on it? He can't take it to the shop. He's going to work on it in a parking lot that's used for commercial vehicles. This is just bad. It's bad for Gloucester Township. It's bad for all of us. And it's especially bad for the
people in Blackwood Estates that have been there a long time and raised our family in this beautiful town that we live in. So, I'd like to say I want answers from what you guys as your roles here. What is your role in
making sound decisions and judgments? And it's not just about money. It goes way beyond that. I could probably keep going on and on. Thank you, sir. You know, can we get your last name for the clerk? Can we get your last name?
Thank you. Yes. Sorry to point folks at the Sharon Dobins, Pennsylvania Avenue. I want to first thank my neighbors for doing the due diligence of research because I to be honest, I didn't. I'm here because of the safety of my
community. My neighbor has two young children across the street from me. Every day when they're outside, I want to go over and see them. I don't want them running across the street on our a on Pennsylvania Avenue in increased traffic that this devel redevelopment
can cause. We already have enough people that speed down our street. I care about my neighbors. I care about the children in our neighborhood and I want to keep them safe and that should be this council's first priority no matter what.
So, thank you. Thank you. Yes, ma'am. Diane Becker, Blackwood Estates, 44 years. Good evening, Miss Becker. I want to know when all these apartments and condos are filled, where are they
going to school? Who's paying for it? We'll provide answers after your comments or questions. Okay. My second question is the condos that are on the Black Horse Pike. I'm
not sure what their name was. I forget. Why are they allowed to have that runoff big enough to to call a lake? And the sides are extremely steep, so a child
can fall into them. They're not fenced. And when I called the township, they said, "Oh, they don't have to be fenced. That's up to the construction. Why? All the other ones are fenced. I have to have a fence around my backyard to have a three-foot puddle, but they
can have a lake. I don't understand. So, we got to wait for somebody to for a child to drown before we get an answer or a fence. They have a a plastic snow fence that's
ripped open and it's been that way for six months or more. So they're they're my questions. Thank you, Miss Becker. Do I get answers? Oh, I respond at at the end of the the public portion. I'll respond to all the
questions and comments. Yes. Hi, my name is Emily Steinhauser. I live on Pennsylvania Avenue. Um, I am the neighbor that Sharon was talking about with the two young kids. Part of the reason my husband and I bought this house six years ago was because it was a
quiet, quaint neighborhood. Not only that, we are already in a lottery system for preschool. Adding more town homes is going to be horrible for our school system. I'm concerned
about the impact to schools. I'm concerned about the safety of my children. I already have to call the cops when people speed down my street. It's going to be horrific. This should be a priority for all of
you. Not just my kids, but for every other child on the block. Having so many houses in such a small amount of space, what is that going to do? It's totally out of place in our
community. Do we know who the developer I did not get the information. Do we know who this developer is who's trying to build this? I know my husband was asking that question. So, I would love to hear who
it is. Um, and I want to say thank you for your time. Hopefully, you take this all into consideration. Thank you, Miss Steinhauser. Yes. Hello. I wrote a speech because otherwise I'd be very emotional. Um I know some of you from board of education
and all that, but um I'm coming here tonight as a parent, a mom. We have your name. My name is Beth Anne Graaso. I live on Pennsylvania Avenue, South Pennsylvania. Uh, I'm here tonight as a resident and a parent to urge you not to approve the
proposed townhouse and apartment complex. Uh, we are a neighborhood that is already surrounded by apartment buildings, many of which are still not fully occupied. And what we even have the vape shop on
the corner that's easy to walk to. Um, adding more multif family housing here will not solve any of our unmet need. It will only compound the challenges we are already facing. Let me give you a personal example. When
my middle when my middle son Sam was in kindergarten at GTE, one of the smallest schools in the district, he had 31 children in his kindergarten class. And let me tell you, he sat on a little area
rug at story time and Mrs. C was his teacher and it was her first year teaching. And let me tell you, this kid, I walked in his classroom as a room parent and he was at story time and he was literally facing the wall like this.
And that is overpopulation in schools. And that's what this kind of housing does. Uh I know that we can't guarantee that people moving into uh the apartment buildings and everything are going to have children, but it there is a possibility and that little school is
overflowing. Um and it has just so many ramifications of having the overcrowded classrooms. But with that aside, um there's also the traffic that's an issue getting in and out of Pennsylvania Avenue onto church
already. And now I have a a 17 almost 17-year-old driver. We have a lot of young drivers in our neighborhood. And just the traffic challenge, uh the turning in and out and to not have the the the visibility and have a
big building on that corner is really going to affect the safety of our our street there. Um, really I'm not opposed to growth and I definitely think that that bank building needs to come down and be developed into
something. Um, but wouldn't it be great if we could support the downtown community of like what we're trying to do downtown Blackwood? Um, we do have a charming little uh section of old Blackwood estates there that we would love to see revitalized and not turned
into more apartments and more transient living um and more robberies and vape shops and all the things that are going up around our neighborhood. And we I've lived here for 18 years and my husband feels the same. uh he couldn't be here
tonight because he's working and I'm missing a hockey game because this is important to my family. So I just I thank you for your community service. I know what that means. I know what it means to volunteer. I am a volunteer in this community community and I just pray
and and hope that you will consider our families. Thank you, Miss We. We have time for one more speaker. Miss Coin will be our last speaker of the evening. Good evening, Denise Queen.
Good evening. Um, I've been asking council to schedule a discussion about the fact uh our township is an entire uh area in need of rehabilitation since the 1980s. I repeated this request in May and July
and many times prior and the council president has public publicly stated more than once that this is something that council can discuss but it's never been scheduled. Tonight's workshop meeting was cancelled and I want to ask why was it canled and why has this topic
affecting the entire township been ignored for years despite repeated assurances that it would be discussed. This is not a minor issue. The designation impacts every property, every resident, and every redevelopment decision in Gloucester Township. Continuing to avoid this conversation
raises serious questions about transparency and accountability. The public deserves an open review of whether this designation still serves a legitimate purpose and whether it has simply been left in place without
scrutiny for decades. Um, and I'd like to ask everybody that's here tonight for uh for Blackwood Estates, please come back when this is rescheduled. It's important for you guys to be here. And um I'd like to remind council why I have
time left. How many units have already been approved of housing? And within a 1.5 milei radius of this uh East Church Street project they want to build,
there's 827 units that have been approved. There are 71 affordable units on the Blackhorse Pike by Walgreens. 158 town homes in Windy Hill, 220 apartments in South
Winds, 250 apartments aerial Blenheim Road down by the old skating rink. Um 128 town homes have been uh requested to be built at 851 Lower Landing Road. And then add to that Little Pond, 81 town
homes. Independence Boulevard, 180 apartments. Davis Town Road, 360 apartments. Lakeland Washington Township border, 120 apartments. Across from Anne Mullen, 95 town homes and 63 houses. Almanscent Road, 12 houses. 10,00
Williamstown Road, 150 town homes. Four town homes in Almansen, that's another 1,65 units. So, that's 2,000 units right there. And then we have the ones that have been proposed and not built yet. Freeway Golf Course, 229 houses and 567
town homes. Nike base, 150 town homes. Lakeland, 1,627 highdensity housing. And Vision Stream, 823 units. So, that's a lot of housing. And I'd like to know at what point in time is
enough enough? How many schools you going to build? Thank you. Okay. All right. We start. Miss Paris had um indicated she had sent I don't want any answers. She wants some answers later. Recapping. No problem.
Uh she had some Oprah reports that she was following up on it was regarding uh permits for the Honey Grove having a rock band out there and there some Jen's landfill questions. Mr. Parameir I believe you were taking notes on that. Uh and then animals are getting cancer
um children from the water and uh she had contacted American water and also aqua water regarding arsenic lead and copper. Um so we Mr. McNeel from Ohio Avenue. Uh
it isn't easy to find postings uh uh for any that were required as a a township. Uh the dwellings as you had indicated um just to be consistent, it's six town homes, three apartments, and retail
space. That's what was proposed. Uh I appreciate your comments that does not fit in in that area. It doesn't work. um you don't believe it brings any value to it. Uh our role and this will kind of answer
maybe some of the other questions as we're the redevelopment entity. So if there's a uh that is a parcel of land that's included in a redevelopment area, they come and they meet with council as a redevelopment entity. They propose a particular project. There's certain
milestones that they would have to meet. Uh then it goes to a planning board process and the planning board at that time makes ensures that they adhere to some of the items that are in that redevelopment agreement and going forward. Impact studies with traffic
studies impacts on school all those things are done through planning board process what they were provided was a interim redeveloper status. Correct. Okay. But there are certain things that they have to do. Yes. We had a discussion with them. Uh we decided to
move forward with that interim status. But upon a second reading, there's has to be a second reading and hearing. And then what we do with that, it will go to planning board. But when you have a redevelopment plan, it allows you an opportunity to hold that developer to a
certain standard. I always give the example of anyone who's attended. If you look at the Walgreens on Blackwood Clement Road, on Black Horse Pike, uh the decorative lighting, the streetscaping that took place there, those things had to conform to what we wanted in downtown Blackwood. If you're
putting a project there, because there was another project that was in that ordinance uh to have the med spa, the med spa is not a required use or permitted use right now. So, that individual says, "Hey, can I have this med spa here?" And that was part of that
discussion that we had with them. This gives us an opportunity to take a look at what is in that area, what we think uh would fit in that area, does it fit with the character and and Gina brought character or Mr. McNeil brought
up character of that particular area. So uh this is by no way a deal at all. I think that um when the attorney had contacted the town and said there's some things that we need to take a look at u perhaps he monitors or she monitors some
of the things that take place online but I wanted to make sure that is that we're all on the same page six town homes three apartments and the commercial space that's what they had proposed uh Mr. leader, you asked the question if there's a rule or standard to notify the
public to pay a bill. I'm going to defer to clerk or or Mr. Carters or Mr. Carlin. Yeah, of course. Well, I took notes on that issue and I would like you to extend at least to me unless Nancy or
Tom can give some immediate answers. I would want to sit down with Nancy and see just the process that she followed and then provide you an appropriate answer. Okay. As far as anything else add Mr. Leader, could you please not shout
out? Just please, Mr. But could Mr. Leader, please don't shout out. Mr. Leader, Mr. Leader. So, so I asked council president to give me an opportunity to sit down with the Nancy in the clerk's
office to determine the process that she uh followed. uh because historically everything has been followed according to statutory law in the state of New Jersey. On this particular issue, I want an opportunity to speak with the clerk to see what was the issues in posting the bills to see if they were
appropriate. I would want that opportunity uh before I respond to your question. Thank you. Uh Mr. Leader also talked about the uh back and forth exchange. So, this is council changed how we ran our meetings
because I I'll be very frank with you. Back in December, it was our first meeting in December and we had someone dragged out of here uh who uh had some mental issues that had been mental health issues that had attending our meetings over the years and were dragged
out of here and then it was just a circus here. And um I don't know if anyone saw on social media up in Cranford in Union County, some guy was break dancing during the council meeting. And it this is not this is not a student
council meeting. We're conducting the business of the township. Uh there was back and forth and people with name calling. I said, "No, we're going to give the residents the residents are going to have five minutes or three minutes to speak and then we'll respond to those questions afterwards and everyone going to be respectful towards
each other and that's how we're going to conduct our meetings. Mr. Leader, if you have five minutes, you get a whole five minutes uninterrupted. No one's going back and forth with you." Uh, so that's how we've conducted our meetings since January. I believe the deans are more effective that way. Uh, there is there's
no back and forth and fighting and calling of names and no one's being dragged out of here by the police. Okay. Uh, Mr. Thomas, police officers to drag the woman out. Okay. Two, not one, but two. Mr. Thomas was a nutouse.
Mr. Thomas, sorry. Uh, thank you for your comments. M. Thomas is an engineer by trade, so when he starts talking stuff, it's Greek to me about the, uh, Janisa. Um, I I'm sure you heard his comments regarding storm water. Jan, Miss Corbin is our, uh,
plane engineer, our planning uh, engineer. Uh and I you had concerns regarding parking uh and how to alleviate that parking. Absolutely. Uh there has been conversations in the past about acquiring certain properties on
the Black Horse Pike to provide uh parking uh for uh special events and for any events that take place. And I know that uh the signage at at the gym has um derailed some of the parking that has
taken place there. Uh but uh I Mr. Cars, are those conversations still taking place? Possibly acquiring something on the Black Horse Pike? No, we're looking, but I don't know of anything right now. That's material. Okay. All right. Sorry. Uh
Mr. Dico G. Okay. Uh so I kind of explain what our role is as council as a redevelopment entity and to hear those particular projects. Again uh we have an engineer that sits at our redevelopment meeting that also reviews
the applicant's information, see that if it conforms to certain standards, uh lot area of death, frontage, um height, front yard, rear yard, sideyard, setbacks, all those type of things. Uh and provides a letter for us to review. uh we have questions that that take
place during that uh process but also another set of eyes is when it goes to the planning board and in the planning board if it does go to the planning board this application goes forward planning board there's a public hearing there's uh testimony that's taking place throughout that meeting and uh that's
how that process goes uh parking we had to address parking water pressure uh and and the cars for the townhouse that was a concern that one of our council members had brought up uh regarding uh the amount of parking that
would be available for that particular area. Uh so those things uh if this comes back and resurfaces or continues, those are questions, additional questions that we'll bring to that developer. Uh Miss uh Miss Sharon, I I misspelled your name wrong, but I like the shirt. Stockton University. There
you go. Great shirt. Um uh thank you for your comments about speeding and and keeping our children safe, Miss Becker. Uh where when you indicated where were these ch Miss Becker did she? Oh there you are. Okay. Where were these children go? So they're located in Blackwood
states they that's the sending area for Gloucester Township Elementary School. Uh any children that are anyone in that area that part of uh they attend Gloster Township Elementary School. Uh with Windy Hill in the runoff uh that is
something that um we're going to have our township engineer. Is that Mr. McGill? Is that something that you can help us out or or u CES or any regarding stormware because I'm look at the approved plans. Yeah. Okay.
Uh Miss Steinhouse, U thank you for your comments about a quiet quaint neighborhood and uh your questions, excuse me, your comments adding more town homes uh and the impact it'll have to our school and safety of our children. The developers call it FMM. F
as in May, excuse me, F as in Frank. M and Mary. FN M Real Estate Investments LLC. That is the name of the applicant. Steinhouser. Steinhouser. I'm sorry. Okay.
Okay. Thank you. Uh, Miss Graca, thank you for your comments uh and uh for your words and and and indicating that challenges of traffic uh in that particular area. And Miss Coin,
you had a question regarding why the workshop was cancelled. We had one item and that was the item at the beginning uh where we had a straw poll. Uh so I had asked to move that to the regular meeting. That's why the workshop was not held. Uh the township of Gloucester is
is considered a a area of redevelopment. Uh you have brought that up on many occasions and we will have conversation regarding redevelopment here in Gloucester Township. So thank you for those comments. Uh with that we'll close the second public portion.
Ping of directors. Paris. Miss Paris something on Mr. Paris. Miss Paris you missed something. Miss Paris, I need to get the balance of directors. Directors, please. Mr. Carl, nothing to report. Mr. Carter,
nothing to report at this time. Deputy Chief Mani, Mr. Miguel, nothing. Thank you. Mr. Corbin, like a million million. Mr. Mo, thank you all for coming out. Thank you for your comments. Have a great a great week. Mrs. Aubrey Troxel,
I appreciate all of you coming out. I especially appreciate your neighborhood. My aunt and uncle used to live there for many years and I know your neighborhood well. So, um, we all understand what we're all going through with certain things and we all have compassion for
people, for the children. Uh, everyone up here I know has the same feelings as I do. And it's important that we try and make uh each area of our township safe for everybody. And when we make decisions, sometimes our hands are tied
by certain laws and we have to understand that. Uh so the best thing to do is when you come to a meeting, ask your sincere questions and we sincerely answer them as you heard uh president Orlando. So anyone else um that has any
questions, come to the next meeting. We'll more than happy to answer for you. And thank you so much for coming and thank you for being very respectful. I'd really appreciate it. This is Grace Love. Um, uh, council president, is there a
possibility I could visit the school to assess some thoughts that I have? The school? Yes. Yes, we talked about the school. I did Google the school. I wanted to visit the school.
I would suggest you reach out to the superintendent of schools for Los Township uh public schools, Mr. Bido. Okay. I'm going to address something that and I did write down everything that you guys said what which were concerns for your community as you know
you put it and it's a tough one for me um because in Gloucester Township I've I've been here 40 years plus and I've watched the town be a a very uh diverse and inclusive community. Um, I want to make sure that the concerns that you all
shared is truly about um the the stated concerns that you talked about density. Um, you talked about um the MUA restrictions, parking issues, increased traffic, uh, school
concerns due to overcrowding. Um, I want to make sure that it's not about inclusive, a diverse community that we're not talking about. That that would bring in uh more of a diverse
neighborhood and that is not something that you want. That's a hard conversation for me as a person of color. I know that Gloucester Township is a big melting pot. And so these are all important issues that you share, but
I want to make sure that that's not one of the reasons you don't want this project in your community. Bringing up a racial issue. Um, I'm not bringing I'm not bringing Excuse me. I'm bringing up Excuse me. Hold on, Miss Grace. Those that are having Miss Paris, please don't shout out. Those that are having
conversations, please take them out in the hallway. Please let the council and continue. I'm bringing up an issue from I'm bringing up an issue that has come upon my heart as I sit here and listened to your concerns, but I don't see any
diversity inclusion in the in the audience. So, I wondered where those other people in your community and I get it. I mean, but Glosser Township is a diverse community. I'm just making sure that this project is not is a stop
project for you because of um diversity and inclusion. I'm just bringing it to and it's was hard for me to address that, but it was laying heavy on my heart. Um, so but these are valid concerns that you
put on the table and I will surely closely look at all of these issues as I decide to make my vote for or against this project in your community. But I also want to look at things that I um were feeling um where I'm not uh I'm
wondering if these are all um the stated concerns. uh they're they're valid, but I also will ask the developer some additional questions and of course our business uh administrator a few more
questions about the project. Um but I want to thank you for all your comments and concerns, but I wanted to share that. Um I want everyone to have a good night and again, thank you for coming out, Mr. Nash. Uh yeah, thank thanks for coming out,
guys. Um it it's tough to get involved. It's tough to you know uh you're missing sports. There's a lot of things that are going on. So I appreciate you coming out and um this is how government changes make things change. So what you're doing is great. So thanks for coming out. Mrs. Walters.
Hi. I want to thank everybody for coming out. I did take notes um on everybody's comments. You guys do live and even though I live in the area, you guys live in that specific area. So, I'm glad you came out, gave us your comments, your comments, feedback, and what um what goes on in your neighborhood as well.
So, I appreciate everybody coming out um to help. Thank you, and have a good night. Mr. Castro, I personally just want to say thank you for all you coming out, expressing your concerns. Um I'm always about public safety as like I say before, like I
said, every meeting. Um and just like everyone else, I did take notes down. I got everyone's names, took everyone's concerns, and I just want to thank everyone for taking the opportunity to come out and express those concerns and bring it before us like it's supposed to be. And just be careful getting home
tonight, and we'll see you at the next meeting. Mr. Marcato, I want to thank everyone for coming out this evening. Thank you for your comments uh regarding the project. Uh I I see this as a partnership um and
working together on this and uh you know we'll keep you a breast of any developments that take place uh regarding this particular project. Uh we are celebrating Hispanic Heritage Month at our next council meeting on September 22nd. Um that will be at 7 o'clock at
the beginning of our council meeting. Uh with that I entertain a motion to adjurnn. Motion. There a second. All those in favor? I have a great evening everyone. Thank you. You know, I think it's terrific. What's up?