Moment of silence to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Thanks everybody.
Okay. The agenda ordinance review. That's what we're here for tonight. Phones are silenced. Questions on it. Sue, you were explaining a little bit before to us there how the process would all work.
So, yeah, reiterate if they want to if council decides they want to do administrative fines. How that would work is it would kind of work along with the nuisance ordinance that we have in the past. First letter would go out. Council would not be going around looking at properties. that would either
come from residents or from Eli or myself as we're driving here and there and whatever. We would find a property, bring it up to city hall to the clerk's attention. Clerk would send out a letter obviously look to see if there is something send out a letter with the administrative fine and then there in
that letter there would be a date that the resident could come to council and you will try to schedule it for council meetings. they could come in and state um if they're working on cleaning it up, if they don't think there's an issue, if they need help with it, whatever they whatever their um reasoning being,
council would listen to it, decide if it is a nuisance, and then they would have a timeline to clean it up. And if it's not done in that time, if they're still in process, maybe they're working on it, it's just taking longer, council then can decide if they want to give them an extra however many days. Um, and then at that point, if it's not cleaned up, then
the council can abate and then they would go through the proper channels and eventually go out and clean up the property, store it however long they have to store it till hiring somebody else to clean it up, right? Store it. Depending on what it is, like we were talking about, if
it's just a lawn that needs to be mowed, it can go through the process. And Eli can go out and mow it. It's a out of fees, it's $150 an hour with a one hour minimum. Um, and that can be used for like if there's trees in somebody's yard that haven't been there's a tree in a
yard that hasn't been moved in two years. That's down. So, I mean those types of things. So, it's just another step that the council has the option of doing. Um, it'll just go in conjunction with the other with the other nuisance ordinance.
Would the vehicles fall under this too then? Non-licensed ones? I mean, there's a lot of cars sitting around this town that didn't just sit there. There's no intent to ever restore them publicly. There's no intent to do
nothing except make their neighbor mad because they got to look at it every day. Right. The big thing there is we've talked to Blorth County. We've talked to he likes to use uh the procedures that Mapleton uses. We're going to make it to where it's going to be uh a fourc car
maximum per residence and that's the way it's going to be. We aren't a subsidiary of being our salvage. I mean, it's ridiculous. Do they have to be currently licensed and insured if they're sitting on the property then
too? Or could we also make that a That was what Mapleton said. Um what is our ordinance? I don't know. I don't know verbatim what our ordinance rates according I can't remember if ours has to be licensed or licensed insured both I don't think we have any control over
the insurance part if I remember right Hagen Andrew yeah Hagen was here a couple months ago it's on the street it's on the street it has to be tapped I think our ordinance says it has to be licensed or it has to be in a shed. In a
shed. Y um something to that effect. I'm pretty sure. It's got to be moved within some on the street. It's got to be Yeah, it's got to be licensed and insured on the street every 3 to 4 days. 48 hours. 48 hours, I think. Um so it have to be in a shed.
Uh does it qualify to be behind a fence so you can't see it? Can't see it. Okay. Well, I mean I just we're going to give options. I'm assuming that is an option. Um, but they can't be in the rightway. They can't be correct on other people's property. They
can't be on the line. They should have to be so far in. We also have it in the ordinance. I know there's something in the ordinance that says it it has to be sitting on like a parking pad, whether that's gravel, tar, concrete. It can't just be sitting in somebody's yard.
And they put a fence around it. Well, if they put a fence around it, they put a fence around it. Yeah. Cuz you can just go one block away here and there's a fence around the whole property. Correct. We don't know what's in there, but it doesn't matter. It's all the public sees as four sides of a clean
fence. Correct. Correct. You know, if everybody wants to build a fence and have all this stuff, build a six foot high fence. That's what somebody in Mapleton had done if I correct because some of these fences are laced with thistles and weeds. come by
July and August missiles all head out to every I mean really Mhm. who would do that? Why would you want to live like that? Cuz it's Mapleton ordinance says violation for inoperable, abandoned or junked motor vehicles.
state system shows. Yeah, because we or so that would be that any any type of nuisance we could use the administrative fine for grass assuming you could do junk vehicles cuz then you go nuisance parking and storage trailer parks
between house and garage not on an approved surface. So just parking it on the grass is not they can't do that. Then you got to look out on that. Say if somebody has a camper that they have and they they store it all winter and they
bring it to town for five months and the only place they have is to back it in on the lawn next to the house. H how do you handle that? It always creates another problem. You're trying to make it look decent. You have you have to be fair across the
board. So, if you're going to say if you're going to allow that one, then you've got to allow the next guy who brings his car home and doesn't have a place to put it or his his um their student comes home for the summer, you know? I mean, it's the same thing. Yep. So, it's saying that it it's going to have to have an approved parking
surface. You got to put gravel down. There's your approved. You get a couple buckets of crust rock and put it on top of your grass and you've got your parking. put it on top of grass too long anyway, it turns into dead grass, which is worthless. So, I guess it means you got
to put a a gravel pad down. Yep. So, what's beside my garage is a gravel pad. That's where my camper sitting. So, there's all kinds of things to look at like that there, you know, both sides of the story. But some neighbors don't
live like living by junk. Myself, I wouldn't like it either. If you have junk, you want junk, build a shed. Put your junk in a shed. Nobody sees it. Nobody will care. It's just that clean. Go move into the country and let the
county talk to you then. Mhm. Yeah. Because there's rules in the county. You can't be doing all this stuff. That's right. I mean, there's fences last summer that had weeds in them. four feet tall and I mean that would be a nuisance, right?
Especially when it's both thistles and Yeah. Well, we have that in our Yeah. in our ordinance with the overdrown grass weeds around um property fence lines. And I mean, does does a house that's been abandoned fall under some of this?
Yeah. Because like I said, I brought up that house down here across east side of the school where the squirrels are running in and out of the sopet. Squirrels are rodents, right? Nope. They'll destroy the house. The house hasn't been in and lived in in what, 35,
40 years? 30 plus. 30 plus. That house has been abandoned for 30 years. No. Oh, yeah. Who owns Don't they just keep it up though? Don't they still mow the yard in that one? They mow the yard, but look at the sopet. The squirrels are running in there. Well, it's still full of stuff, right? It's all still full of
stuff. They just moved out. I mean, like furniture and so they would get the same letter that you would get if you didn't take care of your yard. I mean, and you would get the fine assessed. The whole idea is this is to get people
just to comply. Well, comply. And I mean, because right now, like I said before, the joke in town is our our ordinance is Yeah. We don't do anything. I'm They just keep getting letters and it's no big deal. That's not going to So, cuz nobody should keep their place up. I
don't mean it needs to be pristine, but you keep the lawn mowed, everything trimmed, trees trimmed, keep it nice. Why should you have to live next to a dump? Why? That devalues your property. Exactly. And you pay the same taxes as everybody
else. Exactly. You know what I hear every time? Did the city do anything to that house that you see when you first come into the town on from the east? Did you mow the boulevard or did you mow your neighbor's boulevard or
somebody else? There was some guy out there Saturday, but I it was just mine. There was a guy out there last Thursday. Yeah. Across there. I mean, my god. mowing. Weed whacker trying to weed whack it
down. What do you do with something like that? I mean, Amboy's got them. Maples got them. Everybody's got them. Yeah. But I mean, my god, doesn't mean we have to accept them. There's been ample opportunities. We've
done two already this year for cleanups. Free. I still think that the one that you're talking about should be a welfare check. Although I've heard that there's I think there's been a couple done even since I've lived in Good Thunder and County's not touching it
in which house? The house by the shop when you come into town. The Oh, because it probably turn into that, you know. I don't know. But yeah. Okay. If they've checked it already. I mean, for example, that one
today with that cat box in the corner of the basement. Did I Were you here? It's about this square. 2 by 12s or whatever. Cat box, but no cat litter. It's about this tall. No
way. Yes. You can The wind was out of the south today and you could smell that stench from that house. Your eyes had water. 200 feet away. 150 ft away. I mean the you the county should have been in
there. If they receive any kind of B county benefit, they should check this out and see where people are living because it's an unlivable structure. Yeah. Breathing that is not good for you. I'm sorry to tell you, but living in a house where a cat does its thing in
the corner of the basement every day ever, all all week, all month, all year long is not healthy living. No. Wow. So if we go back to the special council meeting and what we have
highlighted or I guess I have that was just um to let you let council know those are the ordinances that we that council already approved. So I know there was some question on which ones we had approved or which ones we had. I went back and pulled those minutes out. Okay. and highlighted those and who made
the motions just so that we know where we're at because this has been kind of an ongoing process. Yeah, right now we're talking I guess more mainly nuisance properties and the fees are going to be a fee schedule and whatever
will have to decide what the fee is going to be. Oh, and I think wasn't it Mapleton's was like 50 or something. Well, maybe we should ask the public what the city can do to make it more easily to clean up yards that don't look
attractive when we offer dumpsters and now we're going to offer curbside. What else can we possibly do to make people clean up their properties? So the neighbor that takes care of his property and mows his lawn, trims around his fences, trims around his buildings,
don't have to live by somebody that never does nothing all year long. Anybody got an idea? Tell you what I think. I've lived next to a neighbor for 25 years and I never came I've never once come to
counsel. I've always just maintained now I uh I really don't care how they live but I don't make it. So for me what I
now this is an option guys instead of sitting there finding make them build a fence if that's how they want to live just make them build instead of sitting there finding them and they're going to buck you on it all the way and I don't know
if the city could help them out make them hide it like I say you just look down the street here there's a fence around the whole property you don't we don't know what's in behind in there. We really don't care. But it's neat. It's there's no boards missing ever.
It's always maintained. It's neat. It's clean look. And Sue did say that that would be a choice, an option. You you find or you have a fence. It's your choice. Yeah. Okay. To me, I never really thought about it, but um when you live
to a when you have a neighbor that's a nuisance, the only thing it's doing is costing you money. Because when it comes time for you to sell that place. Oh yeah. And now it's a right now. Now now it's what did I right? I just try to keep my
place up and now you're costing me money. I mean there's there's no argument. Good example that one down on the east side of the school. Nice houses on both sides. One in the middle is falling down within itself.
So, I mean, it it degrades the other properties. I I just wrote a letter to the city council in Mapleton because I'm selling a house in Mapleton, and on both sides, it's a decrepit property. And I said, I said, "My seller pays the same taxes as everybody else. We've had to do
price reductions because of the comments and the feedback that we've gotten on these houses. That's not fair to this person who's paying the same taxes as everybody else in this town." So, they were going to make some movements on taking them down, but they they didn't. They just, you know, if they sat there forever and nobody cared, but then when
someone goes to sell their house and they got to do price reductions because of the neighbors, that's not fair. Yeah. And again, maybe that isn't a bad idea, huh? Just build a fence, six foot high fence. You can stuff as many cars as you want in there. That's right. And you can
let the grass grow as long fence over six foot and don't let it grow on the outside and go up along the side of it, you know, as long as it's a fence that uh goes along with well can't see through and goes with setbacks. I mean, they can't just put it where
they want. They're still going to put it within the You got to have room for snow. You got to have room, you know, for everything else and have to abide by setbacks. I can see the downside of a fence. Somebody will go down and they'll take and drill a twoft
hole and they'll set a post and they'll build a fence and then every year when the frost comes up and down, pretty soon the fence is falling in and then we got a fence caving in on all the gr. Well, that's fine. And then you just I still think with the invoices
and if if people don't want to mold their lawns, build a fence stuff take care of the outside of it. I don't know. It's hard to figure enough's enough. It's trying to encourage people to do that.
Yep. Defense is a good idea, but if you get bucky with people, that's you can run into a big can of worms there. But what's getting bucky with people? It depends on the individual. I'm just saying. Do you have to talk to them for
10, 15 years about this problem? When does common sense kick in? Common sense has nothing to do with it. It does. He's saying he's saying we're trying to be nice. trying to be common sense, saying your neighbors don't appreciate this.
We're trying to be civil. You obviously are oblivious to life. But that's meaningless though because it comes down to the law. Yeah. You know, well, that's why that's why we'll we can make codes, we can add it to the property taxes. They don't pay it, it's going to go on
to be a bigger and better thing. Can as long as you're follow due process, and we will do that. It has to be to the word because like he said, if you buck somebody and they paint that fence purple or they paint it graffiti and make it look just as trashy, you almost
have to get down to the word of, you know, cuz like you I mean, like you said, if you keep pushing somebody and they were like, "Fine, I'll put up a fence and I'll make it really ugly." You know, if we had the ability to make people put up a fence, we would have the ability to make them clean up their yards. Yeah. We We can't make anybody
make anybody do anything. You can assess fines and you can bait and everything else, but that doesn't going to make people that don't want to do it are very expensive and I don't I don't we want to get into assess the fines. I guess that's what we have to figure out what our fine schedule. So we we have once
they once council decides what the sign the fines are the ordinance that they're discussing tonight will have the fine when you send the letter with the fine the fine will be assessed. If they don't pay it, then it will be assessed through Blue Earth County to go to their because
it's on October, I believe, for fine. Well, not right away. It's an administrative fine. It's an administrative fine. It's by if someone doesn't want to pay that, you're going to have you're going to end up having to go to a a court of some sort. Correct.
amendment to the constitution. You can't liberty or property process. That's where they they come in they the council has holds a hearing for lack of a better term and the resident can come in and
state their issue and and whatever. Um it's not due process of law. Well, that's that's the first part of it and then and then and then if they don't Well, yeah, I understand that. What I'm saying this is the first step and then if it doesn't get done then our attorney steps in the attorney gets the letter
and then the attorney takes it from there and does the court hearing and all of that. Yes. Yeah. And when you go by the due process of law and you want to just keep going to court and going to court going to court this guy here that represents a city you're paying for it twice. You're paying for your own civil
court and you're paying through your taxes. So I mean somewhere along the line I would think people would come to the common sense and just clean it up. Yeah. I'm gonna play nice. I'm building a building. That's I'm just concerned as a taxpayer.
What I'm saying is you don't want to push the wrong guy that's really going to drag you into some cans of worms that'll cost the taxpayer a tremendous amount of money. Do you think if they have that kind of ambition to go to court, wouldn't you think they'd have that kind of ambition
to clean up your property? Sometimes it's just the principle, though. I totally get what you're saying. Sometimes it's just the principle of I mean you you we got about a dozen properties in town that just have just stuff that they don't even move it to me
around of those you'll be able to buffalo into doing whatever you want. You run into the one person that's going to say nope and they're old and they got a pocket full of cash and you could cost
the taxpayer a fortune. I don't think we have any that are We will not. They will. Well, yeah, but we're making an ordinance. That's what we're supposed to do. We're supposed to help run the city. They will be making the city waste
money, not us. It ain't that we're it's it's all the citizens that are complaining. So, we hear about it all the time. And that's the other part of this. The residents are the ones that are we're trying to encourage the residents to come in and say, "Hey, you
know what? You know, help us out here because it's your town." You know, look right across the street. There's about eight or seven seven or eight vehicles around that house and property. You can only drive one. Why?
Why? Why? Cuz they want to, I guess. Okay. then go out and rent a piece of property and put them on there and you can have 50 of them. But you can't have them in the city of good dinner or the city of Mapleton or the city. I mean, everybody or any city for that matter.
Yeah. I mean, why don't we just follow Mapleton's, you know, they've been doing this for a while. They've been successful. That's what we're trying to do. However, we don't have the police presence, so therefore it's upon Eli and myself. We should put the As far as the fine the fines and stuff. Yes. And I
don't 50 50 the first and I'm not arguing with that. I'm just trying to point out that I don't want to see something cost the taxpayer huge amount of money. I don't either, but I don't know how it was just the case within the last 10 years of mano wanted that old guy to get rid of a whole bunch of junk
cars. I guess and you know he fled indigent but everybody involved in that case knew it wasn't true because it went all the way to the Minnesota Supreme Court and he won. Was that the guy up in South Bend? Yeah, he won. I It was It
was just in that part of town. Okay. And it was in the like the last 10 years. It was on the news. You know, they spent a fortune going all the way it went all the way to the Minnesota Supreme Court and the Minnesota Supreme Court ruled in his favor and you know, he was claiming
engine, but everybody knew that wasn't true because he had high price lawyers and he was just paying cash. Sure. So when you get there, that means the losing party pays all the legal fees. And you know, to go to the Minnesota Supreme Court, you're talking hundreds of thousands of dollars. This isn't a
$10,000 court case. It's hundreds of thousands of dollars. Right. Yeah. But what I'm saying, you'll buffalo most people into compliance. But if you hit that one person, that can cost the taxpayer buffalo in. No, that's the only way
these really work. It's already c costing the taxpayer money by keeping their house up and the houses that are their property taxes low. So I'm not arguing that. I'm just saying I don't want to see something that but if you make a covenant and a restriction for
the city. We're not buffaloing anybody. It's everybody. It's everybody. You got to be able to enforce it though, which is what we're working on. the the ordinances we have now have the teeth, so to speak. Well, do anything. All the
verbiage is wrong because we do not have it's just it's it's basically trying to say here, please do something. We don't have a city police. So, it would be so much easier if properties that would be in question that Sue or Eli find if those properties would owners would come
when they got the first letter and go, what what what do we need to clean up? Well, I don't know. Look at the three-foot weeds in the fence. Look at the the children's toys that you got laying in the yard. Then you don't have any of that size children left anymore.
Um everything there's just multiple stuff in this town all over. Um you can you name it, you can find it. That will just be a risk that we need to take. That will just be a risk that we need to
take. Yep. you know, if somebody wants to sue the city again, it'll just pay it'll just go back on the taxes on the rest of us, you know, and uh um but we made an effort to clean up the town and if somebody wants to treat the town like
that and go to the Supreme Court, I guess, you know, we're we're in a battle. Well, we were in a battle. We still might be in a still in another battle yet. We don't know where we're at in in the present battle. So, Tom, you had something question. But if you if
you listen to it, it's Mr. Jabberion, right? No, Lewis. Sorry. Sorry. If if you listen to people like him, nothing's ever going to get done, right? Because what he's what's going on here is it's a scare tactic. It's like, oh god, the city, you can't do that because they're going to
sue the city. Well, if that happens, nothing's going to get done and the city is going to continue to look like Yes. So, I I I'm just going to throw this out there. This is all spinning around up here. I was on council 30 years ago and we were discussing the
same crap we're doing now. You you were on one of those planning commission and yeah this has been ongoing for 30 years. Yeah. keep on kicking that can nothing gets fixed and because people are afraid that oh god the city's going to get sued
and and you know I I I'll I'll sit and I ask I don't know if I've talked to any of you council members but I always found it funny when I talk to a council member about something about you know somebody's property and there was always an excuse
well we can't do that because the lawyer won't let us we can't do that because the lawyer won't let us and it got I mean Why did we Why did we elect these council members when they're not going to do anything? Well, they can't break the law. So, here's the deal. I think
that you make the fine high enough that it hurts. People were Yeah. or it gets their attention and it's like, "Oh we're going to do something. You know what? Maybe we should build that fence. Maybe we should hide it. If we hide it, then move it from
Everybody's with Tom's comment there. Could we make that administrative fine when we send out that notice and that fine? Could we put that fine at $2500 and say this fine will go away if your property is cleaned up in 30 days?
I don't know. I don't know. I think that might be a little reachy. Well, I mean, you could set it. I I'm like Tom said, you gota I we could um I could definitely ask our attorney that we could set it at maybe it's 500 bucks. Yeah. I mean, you know,
something and then I'm I'm assuming too that the the council also has a little leeway in that too is, you know, if somebody comes in and they're being assessed, let's just say a $50 fine because they haven't mow their yard and they come in and they go, "You know what? I really need to mow my lawn. My lawn mower's broke. I and they just
can't financially do it. Okay. You know, and that's something different. So, I mean, some of it's going to be a case by case basis as well, but I think the, you know, I can definitely talk to Kennedy. Well, we don't need to set the fee schedule tonight, right? We do not. We We just need to approve the ordinance, right? The fee schedule because we're
pulling once we pull the fee schedule out of the ordinances, we can do that, right? Does the city have to follow that no more may stuff? I don't. the city can choose to um is it North Mano or Mano bought that and I think Mano tried to I
think it was North Mano a couple years ago they tried to to establish the no may and their attorney said you know you're better off just letting it go so okay there's an individual that's got the grass about this tall now
how's he going to get that mowed off he's going to say oh I can't get it mowed off it's too long you know what we can have Eli come out and do it for 150 bucks an hour. There you go. There you go. Because that's what our fee schedule is. 150. Mhm.
That high. It takes a whole week to cover. I'm just saying. Yeah. Yep. Yep. No. Mo May is almost July. Well, that's why I didn't send any letters out in May because I just wasn't going to go there.
There's very few in town anyways that do the normal May. And now and I did send out 12 letters on Wednesday regarding lawn loans. Do does anybody have to come and tell you the lawn is too long or can
do you and Eli have to go out and find those lawns or not? Nope. Mr. Lilis comes in and says so and so's lawn is three feet tall. We go look at it. Go. Yep. You're right. We take a picture. We send them a letter. But we as council we you guys cannot right now. You can if
somebody comes up to you and says, "Hey, so and so's lawn and you report it to me or Eli and then we will go check." Yep. Same way the messy yards it's file a complaint.
It ain't It isn't us. Exactly. Right now it's he said, she said. Yeah. You know, so if you went back to this fence thing and built a fence,
how could you keep it so there would be no graffiti or it wouldn't be pink or purple? A fence would be in its natural wood state. I I don't think we want to fence. We I don't think we want to get in the fence building business at all. That's building. No, it's another whole
can of worms. That just because you don't like the color pink doesn't mean somebody else doesn't. Right. And are we going to finance it and we put up one for one person and said, "Well, I want a fence, too. You should put up a fence for me." No, I don't think the town wants to finance. Town can't keep putting up fences. I
mean, I understand the thought, but figure out a plan to encourage people somehow to put up a fence. Well, we encourage them to clean up their yards by offering a free service. What did that cost the two dumpsters, Sue? Was it $1,200 or was it right
around a,000 bucks? Maybe $1,000. We we offered that service already. But you look at some of the same yards, not hardly anything went there. So, what part of that don't we get that we're offering a service and nobody cleans up
the yards? the the dumpster thing, you know, like older people and the the the pickup in front of the house will work a lot better than the dumpster things. That's what I said. Well, when is that less things doesn't take
like two weeks, but you know, it's coming up in a couple weeks. 28th of May from I think it is. So, I mean, and again, we talked about having a curbside or another uh dumpster one. We
we talked about three of them, right? We talked between Yeah, some three more of them you guys did. But again, then um just for an example, across the street, there's nothing there that is junky, but there's piles of lumber and there's
vehicles. None of that's going to go in the dumpster. No. So, that creates a whole another issue. That's where we go to these codes. City of Mapleton says no more than five nuisance property storage
five motor vehicles at one said property. I think we have that in our I think we should only have four. And then well that and this is I think ours says four. Well, this is but this says usable or runnable or operable. Yeah, operable.
Operable. I got to find the spot where it talks about um Oh, yeah. Well, abandoned, inoperable, abandoned or junk motor vehicles. There's not a there's not a number you can have. It's if they are deemed
if they don't run Yeah. they shouldn't be sitting there, right? Exactly. And if they're tabs, they're way out of two, three years out of date, then they can't be in the right away. Well, the thing is you can get money for them. Mhm.
Well, if a vehicle breaks down and it gets parked for say a month or so, that's a little bit different. That's right. Absolutely. The city will work with anybody that, hey, my car broke down the transmission
motor, but the communication has to be there, right? That's the biggest thing. You go and you look at some of these vehicles with no license plates. They've been there for six, eight, nine months already. There's no intent. They're just there. You know,
when you guys look at these policies, does the fine go to the owner then that where the fine goes? So, does I'm not the type of person that's going to tell on somebody, but if somebody
comes and and things, you have to send that to the landlord, right? Correct. The owner will get a letter. Now, chances are I would send it to I would send a letter to the renter. I mean, I
guess that's something that council Well, that would make sense. you know, it would make sense to send it to the renter to have one for the renter and then the one with the fine to the landlord. So, I I'm I'm not a landlord, but So, I'm assuming that if if a
landlord got like, let's say, five of these letters, is there any way that the city could pull their Yes. rental license? Sure. They can lo They could use lose their rental license. Yes. Unless it's family and it's involved in
uh families don't need a rental license. That's right. Then it's going to go back on the property owner owner and if they don't pay it, it'll go on their taxes one way or another. It's going to get there. But again, you you put a, you
know, administrative fine of 50 or 75 or $100 and it goes on the taxes, it'll just hang there, you know, and they could they could leave that $100 on their taxes for 10 years as long as they just keep the taxes up, you know, right?
Because you only got to pay a per if you're behind on your taxes, you a percentage of part of that percentage is going to be that assessment as well. Yeah. you. So, if you pay your taxes twice a year, you're going to pay that you're going to pay half of that each time because if if there's a balance, if
they leave the fine on, they pay everything else, then they're going to be delinquent in their taxes because now it's a tax, right? Because now it's part of their property. Even though it went on as a fine, now it's part of their tax. So, it's a tax. Yep. And they then be delinquent with in the calendar year, they got to make it goal. Okay. Because
otherwise, you know, people fall behind their taxes and they they'll just let it sit there and then pretty soon they'll go pay some and then they got more time again and more. They're also getting interest on all of that as well. But that happens. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, it does. I know that because when I bought
my property, there was a lot of delinquent taxes on it and I had to pay for it. So, I see what you're saying. Yeah. What? I see what you're saying. As a property owner, if if you find him, right, he's just going to pay his he
doesn't have to pay it all because delinquent on your taxes. You're delinquent. But they're not going to foreclose or confiscate the property. It's just going to drag on the next the next until somebody buys the
property and then they got to pay all that taxes. Yep. But if the fees keep adding up and they have any common sense they would I want to look into that because I'm not I would think but you do make a good point. Yeah, I think that you know there's people that will run it
until they absolutely get the last letter go down and pay some then you're well they set up they do a payment agreement. So I've just happened to run across one of these. They set up a payment agreement that they have to pay X amount of dollars a year. So they come in and they pay that. Well, then in three years they pay $500, whatever it
is. In three years now, they're getting defaulting again on their property taxes. They go in and sign another agreement, pay another so much a year, they pay it, and then there's one that's doing that right now, but they don't pay. But they only do it they'll only do it for so long before they're going to because your taxes are never going to go
away. They're just getting bigger because that $500 you're paying doesn't cover hardly cover the interest. Yeah. On back taxes. Look at all the ways we're trying to do this. The simplest way is to take it out to your curb in two weeks and throw it away. Yeah. And
it would be all done. For help. There's nothing wrong with coming in and saying, "Hey, I need some help." You know, we can find we can find avenues. We can find it. You know, like John made the comment, the older people. They're they're not capable. Well, make a call
and say, "Hey, we need I'm sure the lazy people, too. The curbside thing will work. You'll get more at the curbside thing than you will at the dumpster. But you're still the problem. A lot of the stuff that's in people's yards are still not going to go in the curb side because it's bigger.
They might not. Yeah. What it is because it's lazy. Pardon? It could be that they just want it or it could be any number. 10,000 reasons. They might like it. It doesn't matter what it is. It cannot
be taken away without due process of law. Correct. Period. That's the highest law of the land. But right now, we don't have nothing. Maybe the highest law of the land, but why you want to offend your neighbors
and degrade your neighbors property because of drunk, you know? Just that simple. Well, it's just the law, you know. Yep. I mean, yeah. I mean, if if people wanted help, I mean, I I don't know how
we could do that, but uh yeah, I mean, gez, we're we're offering multiple kinds of cleanup abilities and take advantage of it. It doesn't cost you nothing, but if you And I'm not here to argue a fight with you either. I want to play nice in the sandbox. As long as
I get played nice with, I'm gonna play. I know where there should have been a sandbox. Um, all we're simply asking is we're providing a service that doesn't cost you anything. Why would you want to go through the fines and this and that and
all we're simply doing is clean up your yards, mow the lawn, keep it looking neat. I don't know if you can ask Google what the definition of need is because everybody lives by a phone. So maybe you should look it up on Google. What is the
definition of neat? It's an opinion. Clean. It's an opinion. Well, clean maybe not, but you know any when you get into the thing of anything that looks I don't like the way that looks. That's
an opinion. Yeah. And any judge is going to tell you that. And if you got a lower court judge that would happen to rule that that opinion is something, he's definitely going to get thrown out by a superior court judge because
it's an opinion. You know, if you look over there and say, you know, I don't know what to use in just because your opinion is one thing, somebody else's opinion is not. But if we put it in an ordinance and it's against the ordinances, you know, then what's going
to happen in the court? If we have a three vehicle limit and no building supplies stored outside, no stuff like that will probably work except for the fact that you're not going to be a anybody that
owned a property before that is not going to have to comply. But any property sold after that will have to. So like let's say you make a five vehicle limit, right? So, anybody that owned the property before that ordinance went into effect, they're not going to have to comply because they bought that
property under the assumption they could keep any more than five vehicles there. Now, once that property got sold to the next person, that ordinance would take effect, you know, but you're not going to be able to make or you know, it's called
grandfathered in. I don't know about that. I don't know about that because ordinance right now only says score vehicles. our ordinance right now that we've had since I don't know how many years back when it said good if you pull up our ordinances right now from way back and no it doesn't say that there's
four vehicles it's got a four vehicle limit on it there may be now but from way back talking about being grandfathered in so in other words uh years ago when they changed the speed limit to 55 miles an hour and I was used to driving 70 when I got my license I
didn't have to drive 55 because I was grandfathered in huh you didn't own the road. I still had my license and it was that way when I got my driver's license. But you didn't own the road. It's not. Yeah. Well, we had that ordinance in effect. So, I Why does people want to fight
this? The ordinance is been in there since it said Good Thunder Police Department. That was back in the 70s. Well, I got copies of all these. I've read through them, too. I'm just saying. When is enough enough? for trying to
make this town look presentable. And I'm not fighting with you. I'm just I just I'm sorry. This is where I get frustrated with everything out here because Scott just said he was on 30 years ago. They tried and got nowhere.
We got to listen to this same crap. Oh, why don't you guys do something about it? Well, we have tried and you know what? We're here now and we are going to do something about it. If it means it isn't you, it isn't whatever. It's for
the whole town. It's common sense. It's I'm protecting my investment. Um I had an individual tell me not even two weeks ago, if he ever moves out of town, it'll be because of the other properties makes his property look bad.
And I mean, is that how we're supposed to treat the the people of our town by not trying to enforce our ordinances that that guy moved out of town because he didn't like the way the neighbor's place looked and it brought his property down?
Well, there's living proof. We just heard made a letter to the city of Mapleton because of two properties on on each side of a house trying to sell. Why is it that person homeowner's problem that you got two garbage dumps on each
side affecting theirs? They should probably have a court case when they're selling the property. Well, they're abating they're they're abating them immediately. No, I'm saying like the homeowner that's
saying his property value is lower. Oh, and you're lowering the price and he's sell he has to sell it now with a lower price. He would have a court case, you know, again, why do you want to go to court? The city of the city of Mapleton is
making a move on it immediately. Good. Yeah. So, common sense. Yep. But anyway, so this nuisance thing isn't just it it's the condition of the houses, too. Yeah. Definition of public nuisance
permits conditions that are unreasonably annoys, injures, endangers the safety, health, morals, comfort or repose of any considerable number of public entities. We should put orders odors in
there. You didn't say odors in I mean public nuisance falls under that. falls 15 times under that. All I'm saying is you just got to be careful with that. You know, I've been
coming to these meetings for 30 years, too. And I said that where the attorney said you have to be careful with this. Well, this has been vetted through the attorney. So, this this ordinance and this is this is their recommendations through the attorney. That's basically
what Mapleton has put in place and they have been making headway is my understanding that. So again getting back to that administrative fee say we send an individual and you got 30 days to clean up your property or you will be
assessed this fee. Um my train of thought um 30 days can be a lot too though. 30 days can be a lot. I know. I know that. Depending on the property, but I'd hate to give somebody 30 days and then that goes by and then No, it's not 30 days
nor I mean, if we send a letter, I just threw that out there. I don't have the letters. I gave them to you guys in one of the other packets. Um, so we'll attach the fine. We'll put it in that of that letter and then you'll have 15 days to comply or however you know. I think I
think wasn't the letter 15 days or something? I think so. And then they can plead their case or whatever at the council meeting on whatever date. They can also request a special counsel meeting if they say you know what I don't want to do I'm you know whatever they can anybody has a has the option of
requesting a special council meeting. So they could do that too and that would be prior on a different date than the regular council meeting. Otherwise the beginning of the regular council meeting the resident will have the option to state their case. Getting back to
earlier I brought up a property that has a couple pickups sitting on the sidewalks. You know, the night that uh Andrew was here, there was a car on the sidewalk down there. It was gone. I talked to him. I talked to Andrew. Andrew went down right after he left
here and he explained to the homeowner that you cannot um obstruct block. and he went through the whole thing with me and the guy had uh some minor thing
he was fixing. He got parts within two days he got it and he got it off of there. Okay. So, he kind of told him just so in the future, don't be putting your vehicle up on jack stands in the in the rightway and on the public sidewalk. And I mean, that's where you can work
with them. But again, common sense comes into prevail somewhere there. But we have one property that has two pickups on the sidewalk for years. So, I mean, right there, we shouldn't even have to tell the sheriff. That's But that's what the sheriff's
there for. Yeah. He should just go tell that individual right now. Get the vehicles off. He's in violation. And those pickups have to come off the sidewalk. Yep. Yep. You cannot. Yeah. And they're the ones driving around. I'm
not the sheriff. Um and then do they you read in the part here of Mapleton's things that u for uh aband inoperable abandoned or junk motor vehicles and trailers that each vehicle
is a separate violation. Oh, I suppose that would it's not just it's not grouped into one violation. It's violation. Each vehicle is a violation. Oops. So they want to strengthen numbers. I guess
that's you know there's way around this. The easiest way would be common sense. It's just take care of it. Make it disappear. Everything disappears. Any other ideas? Huh? Anybody else? Well, I think ordinance 25002 is looks
good as is other than the two spelling corrections which I think we already fixed. In fact, where did you get that number? Title of the ordinance. Yeah. Oh, that's the other one. 25 3502
252. I think I'm missing them, too. Starts with 35. It was just 35. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, 252 on top. Yeah. 252 on top. I was going by this. Yeah. Me too. All
the copies the same. Come on now. The 35 is just the those are the paragraphs. Our paragraph codes. Um so do we make a definite number on the cost of the uh No, we don't have to do
that yet. We need to pass this ordinance first and then I'm going to um converse with our attorney on setting what you had talked about. Maybe, you know, you said at $500,000 if they comply, they don't have to pay it. Ifin so many days, whatever. I can
get those information, but because I think there's a part point where it could be considered excessive. Well, I think so, too. Yes. So, I'm not sure. And I'm not sure if you want to do that anyway, right? Because then Well, this all looks good enough to everybody then. Somebody want to make a
motion to approve ordinance number 252. I will make that motion. I'm going to second. Second. All in favor say I. I oppose. Motion carried. All righty. So, will we be able to talk about the fines at our next council meeting then?
Yeah, we'll put that on the agenda for that. Um, okay. We can assess, we can figure out the fines and we'll do that. We can figure that out and then like I said, we'll have to do the public hearing because now once we have all this done, I can the public hearing and verbiage wise
personally with this with a change of title. Well, that's that would be the letter. So, that can be up for that different that's not necessarily part of the ordinance. I mean, it is the ordinance, but it doesn't it won't go in the ordinance. Don't get a letter. Okay.
Well, I just mean the We can create the letter. Yes. Yeah. Some of this what's in here is very good and we want to use that too that you know if we and I can I'll put some letters together at the next council meeting and they can you read through there is violation one nuisance talks about lumber tires debris
ladders building materials. So much easier if you just have that and then you just check which one it is versus trying to violation three nuisance parking is trailer park between house and garage not on an approved surface. It's pretty pretty self-explanatory,
pretty simple. And what the ordin that's what we want. We want it simplified. And that's why I'm saying that works for them. Why recreate the wheel? Yep. Correct. Yep. And we can just Yep. And I can work with that because I know I have the um document of that. I can
manipulate it. So that's been approved by their attorneys. Correct. Yep. Kennedy. I'm pretty sure Kennedy's their attorney, too. Yeah, they also have the police for that those out. The police department is the ones that finds the
violations and then sends that. Do they do that for Amboy too since they're the Amboy police? No. Amboy isn't worried about their properties either. Yeah, but I don't think Mapleton and forces theirs certain on the side of their cars.
City of Mapleton police also serve an amboy. Oh, so maybe they do then. I guess I don't I was wondering if they do. You know, it'd be part of their policing, I would think. You know, could be. Yeah. I don't like I was always an impression that the sheriff wasn't going to come out for a barking dog, but he said they would because it's a nuisance,
right? Nuisance. And that they, you know, you can't have a dog barking in the neighbor's bedroom window at 3:00 a.m. in the morning for 3 hours. So, it's the people they come to. Yeah. They went in.
Anything else? No. I'll make a motion to adjurnn. Someone to second. Second. All in favor? I. Thank you, Thomas.