##VIDEO ID:M09uskwntwA## warm time been some more warm yeah yep yeah just got back from Florida good thund it was probably a little warmer there where you were at cheap well we can stand for pledge of Le remain standing for a moment of silence I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation indivisible andice thanks everybody okay any addition corrections to the agenda if not so may make a motion to approve I'll make a motion approved agenda someone second I'll second all in favor say I I oppose motion carried um I guess we got Jeff and Joel here today or tonight do you have some new findings or whatever you like to talk about May Jo been heavily involved in Project down there backyard tenary Holiday Street and I know was that the last meeting I was able to get here but um he understands I think some of the questions I you had and from here I'll just turn it over to Joel to go through things yeah yeah all right yep um we're continuing with the the property owners on the holiday Street backyard sanitary schoer project that and then also we had some discussions about um sanitary sour service for the butcher shop and that property off of Main Street that there was a a failure there if we should be looking at stubbing something to the cell to help separate those sanitary sewer Services I think it's probably most appropriate to start with the discussions that we've had along the winter property with Jeff and or um R and J L are here we about negotiating with the property owner for a 15 foot permanent e been along the west side of the property and a 10 foot permanent easement along the south side of the property line we're working with them to try and secure those and again that's for that that piece of sanitary sewer pipe that extends east from holiday stre and Holiday Street and shavid street and that's across their property at 200 North Front Street and connects to an existing manhole at the intersection of Flynn Street and Front Street so I think um yeah the previous council meeting we went over the the discussions that have been had with the property owner regarding the value of the land and the benefits from the city's perspective and the benefits to the property getting that sanitary sewer pipe kind of move to the edge of the properties is the goal um so think with that I'll kind of open it up to kind to think about the number at the council um then the way the last meeting ended there was a negotiation for financial payment to acquire the permanent ements along the the properties there south and west side of the property before we go with that have you pursued going back where the original one was or could we simply just line the existing pipe it's a good question Mr Mayor I'm not in favor of lining the existing pipe due to the size increase right now the pipe that's stubbed out of the intersection of Halliday Street and chabat street is a 10inch sanitary sewer pipe and it's a 8 inch that cuts across the private property and continues to the east to that Flynn Street there right now the city has a two block bottleneck that that bottleneck is from shabot street over to H Street there so it's those those two Block shabot Street to Front Street and then Front Street to the east is a block at 8 inch and then from there the sanitary sewer heads Northeast towards the ponds and that's a 12inch sanitary sewer M so we're trying to get those two blocks of sanitary sewer up to a 10 inch pipe size not favor of lining it we do have the option to replace it where it is through the prescriptive easement process that we've been talking about at some of these past meetings city does right to maintain the sanitary sewer pipe that's at the end of it lifespan as we've talked about there are benefits to getting it out to the edge of the property where more accessible for for maintenance and not running underneath the portion of the pipe that I should say that we couldn't replace is there's a portion that runs underneath the shed and for obvious reasons we wouldn't be able to remove and replace that pipe and get it upsized to a 10 inch at least feas feasibly because you'd have to remove the shed and restore it to its original condition which to me is just unfeasible to consider doing in that guess from I think I don't know not but the idea would be to construct reconstruct Dage pipe up to the from how backyards there on how yeah to the building and then in the building to towards the roadway to Front Street there Front Street so would be PCH from underneath the shed or the building I don't know it's 30 May 25 that would still be 8 inch until sometime in the future well I thought of this here that was an old bulk station and we arated that sewer line one time Tom right we put a fan in the manhole and arated that so the city goes digging down there anywhere and hits dirty dirt who's responsible for that well that's right I mean that's probably a pretty good question to ask yeah it is that's a real life question yes yep it's dirty dirt what happens then yeah I mean if you want to answer that I can sure answer that um so that's that's something where you're required by law to notify the npca duty offic so they call it that's somebody that from the npca come out um inspect the dirt and then determine whether or not they'll probably likely say hey you need to get somebody like a testing company involved see if there's any um contaminants in the soil like petroleum based contaminants see Al organic car carbons or poon based products and that's what it is they tend to sit there for a while don't dissipate very quickly at least for my understanding so what would happen then is um there are certain contaminants that are discovered what end up happening is you'd have to dispose of them at a proper in a proper way spest if you find aestus you're supposed to just leave it or not even touch it or remove it if you have to remove it and stockpile it and cover it up and not disturb it right whose expense that's all that the would the owner's expense I mean that would be at the cities so when it comes to that that would be in the line going east they're proposing I think we arated it on that manhole as exposed I think so there was a fan on top of there for what a month yeah because there was literally was gas going down into the sanitary suit and how long ago 20 years ago 20 25 years ago so what used to be there I'm sorry a bulk station uh you go yeah friberg's had a bulk station there and they some gas leaked into the sanitary sewer and the city had to aate that sewer we put a fan on top of that manhole for probably a month and I got thinking about that after the last meeting it's like boy we start digging down there who whose expense is that going to be another question is it where the line is right now if you went how far would it be to the south of that towards the line to put a new how far would that brown could that be contaminated does it leech out and spread 20 30 feet wide or does it stay 5T wide or anybody know was the fix station located kind of where the new shed is located now more center of the lot Robert there was some bulk tanks back in there wasn't there I can't remember no I think I think they're right by that that old Tin Shed well the Tin Shed had 55 Gall barrels of oil and stuff in there I believe and there was some tanks to the back yeah there was yeah and that's where some of the the leakage occurred but you know I got thinking if you you you dug the existing line up you'd be right there where if you could move it to the South and stay away from that it probably be better off for boths looks like we're a good 40 feet about South the proposed alignment was it ground SP on the ground fuel it obviously got and that's a clay Kyle running under that shed right yeah so it's not sealed how did they was there oil in the pond how do they discover I think it was mainly a smell it was smell yeah it was gasoline smell yeah because there was some upright tanks there wasn't there you say that yeah and uh yeah got a hole in them and they got into that underneath that shed area there so y y from there got generally what happens you can correct me it doesn't that make a plume and the plume sort of just travels you know and just then eventually you know the solution to pollution is delution you know so I me that's what happen so does it kind of like follow a water shed under ground so there's a chance when you say thatt bar um you know there's always a chance it all depends I've seen situations where you've had some spills some documented spills that are noted you know the npca um they're isolated and they're just in a general area more than 20 diameter um and that's been over 20 30 years but you know all depends on the groundw if it's moving dissipating any those contaminants eventually it's one of those things that it's timately anybody that's overseeing the project or the contractor U encounters that while they're digging um you know sometimes you you smell that sort of and sometimes the guys in the brench you know they dig the soil out and they can spell oh there's something going on here and then by law they're supposed to stop and notify but then there's a lot of contractors that their noses sometimes get a little bit blun and just able to smell that it's intentionally or not but because otherwise it could delay things it usually does would beo us to pop down a couple of wells some soil borings you there so this is something I can add is that when Brett bought the property from Steve fryberg um he was told that or he told Brett that and I that when the county made that switch on all that street stuff or whatever that they that they actually did some soil boring down there and gave that piece of property a clean bill of health that's what we were told at closing so that does anybody have that cop I would guess we have but at that point they said that the count youing kind of took on that responsibility because they were re they were kind of regrading that lot and they and they switched you know Halliday Street for py RO 35 when when they made the switch so because that was one of the concerns that that Brett had when he bought the property is there any sort of potential but that would have been out in the front of the building right because they didn't get too much I don't know where they actually did the boring but but we were told by Steve that that piece of property had clean you you didn't do like was a class one environmental survey of that I just know that when I bought the property and I closed on St pretty sure he gave me some stuff from the npca that verified clean bill of health property because again we were worried about being build on yeah that would that would be the big that would be a Bugaboo if we ran into that we'd be better off moving shed through that no yeah there's an option to include some quantity for disposing of condam contaminated soils in the project cost and then whether or not it needs to be used but at least the contractor has to put a competitive number on it rather than let it come to that during construction and then it's a change order item yeah how it under that shed is that like 8T deeper yeah about eight or nine really yeah pretty deep yeah yeah if you look at that manhole at the intersection of Flynn in front it's about eight and a half feet from the rim of the manhole down did you put together what the cost might be to put it where the existing Line is now think that I mean with moving and putting back and yeah to to replace the pipe where it is now here somewhere I don't have that exact number would be know less than moving it potentially right but it just doesn't this was SP stre the problem with you know we'd have that bottleneck underneath the shed and then it's kind of like does that do we ever have the ability to relocate it in the future that time comes so is kind of the the challenge in my mind right we'll be we' be reconstructing up to the shed leaving that piece in there reconstructing the other side which is fine well I mean I'm talking about the expense of removing the shed and putting it back on their property somewhere I mean it's really you know an easement issue yeah you know what I mean it's an EAS issue yeah I mean we really do have that right to do that and it just we' have to foot the cost to do that right yeah you know even though it got built over the top yeah pip first now was the shed there first or I mean I'm guessing it wasn't as long as I can remember I've been in for 40 years down here so we're we're running into the same problem with that pipe there under that shed is we are the where we have the already an easement right away yeah the SE would have been sh SE would have been construed before yeah but I mean it's been a long time yeah because obviously if that's only 8 in that's an 8 in part right there yes and that's never probably been replaced when all that other stuff was updated then obviously because they didn't want to deal with it yeah they didn't want to deal with it the other concern about going to work and I know that you guys have that that prescriptive RightWay sort of thing but the other thing that's a concern of breath is the fact that if you guys were doing that you're digging eight foot deep next to his building um as far as possibility of undermining footings and stuff like that or whatever and then what happens to the building I mean that I mean I I don't know if anybody around here would want somebody leing at eight or foot trench right 5T from their building would you Robert probably no that's why it'd be better off if you move it to the South right everybody could get along and get a RightWay put it to the South is it called a right away or an easan e Ean okay y right now on the back side of them houses that RightWay or an e that one's right away that's what I thought okay yeah so an easan is better than a rightaway or they same thing different yeah I mean RightWay is publicly owned by the city where whereas an easement is on Brett would still own the property but an easement is okay a portion of his property so that RightWay what's on the RightWay that pre that makes one thing Tom inform there's no right away running East and West right now correct that's the challenge that we're up against there's a prescriptive easement on top of the existing sanitary sewer pipe prescriptive meaning that the pipe's been there for over 15 years and city has the right to dig down and maintain it but there is not rideway or permanent easement on the running east and west on the south side of the property yeah because the current easement is along the north side of their building right that's where the current was and that's one that's close close to the building right that's a storm sewer e yeah on the North side that manhole that's above the ground that's only five feet out from the building about oh five or six okay all right I mean to answer your question you know cost wise reping currently is if you wanted to Shone lot cheaper to remove it and just dispose of it rather than removing it and putting trying to put it back and build a foundation and put it on but um but if you if you do keep it shut in place um you could argue there be a little bit more cost involved the contractor because biging next to the building not to say that they can't it would be somewhat challenging U but they can do it it can be done but it's better off if we go to the South oh gosh for everybody to me it's better off for the city and for the property owner because right now you got a pip run through that that's on prescriptive and it's it'd be nice to get it off you know to the South along the RightWay line in an easement that's dedicated and basically clears up to title for proper so there there's there's benefits to both both the city and the property at least in my perspective would you want the shed back if it had to go that route or absolutely yeah Ian that's that it's valuable space I mean it's it's a metal building that probably been standing I would assume the number you know it would cost you guys to go and move that building put it back put the slab back on there's a lot more than what we talked about at the last meeting so that's line plug up with the lock here in the last week or so that line comes out of locker yeah maybe goes right straight over there so that's across the gas companies who's scale G or what's the name of that Donan companies um the people that have have the property they're down in Missouri they're the ones that manage all the all the properties for for so what would happen Joe if the locker ran farther to the west and went through do we have a right away through here yet yeah it's a good good question we did take a look at an option for that I'll show you guys here so in this kind of black clouded area we looked at an option to extend sanitary storage to the Jean Kos he has a cleanout about every Yeah couple one on one on one side of the driveway down there by just building there so that's old old old stuff there too I think North up on the map there in the Black Cloud area we were looking at option to separate some combined sanitary sewer services so there's one combined service it's for a property on Main Street there um I think that one's owned by Gerald Anderson and then for the meat locker they're a combined sanitary sewer service that runs to the north it cuts across the Donovan properties there the property just to sell the Brett Windows cuts across there and then directly connects to one of those manholes sticking up out of the ground near Brett's shop there so there's that one and then there's a longer service for that property near the northeast corner corner of Main Street and Holiday Street that they have a long service that runs through the north excuse me and connects up with the sanitary sewer coming off of shabot street so we looked at an option to extend sanitary sewer to the sou to allow a separation of these Services what we're battling here though unfortunately is the the 12 foot RightWay no RightWay the 12 foot wide right away in the backyard of those homes along Holiday Street ends once you get the sh at it does not continue to sh so to construct this sewer extension in the black clouded area we would have to work with some Property Owners to obtain a 15 foot easement to perpetuate that to the cell those properties being The Butcher Shop Richard Maran po it's a property just to the north of the butcher shop owned by dick po then the property to the north is the Donovan companies 134 North Front good put together a cost for this again this is to separate the sewer Services which is a win um there's that obvious question of is the city obligated to maintain or replace these people's sanitary sewer Services Jeff and I have talked about that we don't we feel we see these as Services because they're not running adjacent to or in a public right of wave they're serving one or two homes and cutting across private property so to us they're Joint Sewer Services you look at the definition of sanitary sewer M it's generally serving multiple home houses residences in or adjacent to a publicly owned right of way so we don't necessarily feel the city's obligated to fix it although this could be a good thing to separate some combined services and help clean things up you're looking at a total estimated project cost $65,000 to extend the sanitary sewer down to the South and uh we don't know if there could be a good source of ini I there either you know yeah we don't know it does eliminate several hundred feet of clay sanitary Old Clay sanitary sewer pipe it absolutely does do that how many feet would be there it's 200 feet 200 feet I'm new 200 feet of new I'm not I don't have the exact number of how much old would be a because the Jean Kino property his house also hooks into there right on Main Street or no Robert well it would if we extend it to the South right now that that's SE there's one joint service with two and then the the Gan kleino property 532 Main Street runs due north and connects in um to that sanitary coming east off a shabot there you see that black line with the arrows there Robert coming off at 532 Main Street property you think Jean hooks up to that yep I know it does really really MH well yeah but yeah that's the one there and is there a clean out right here on the side of this alley for him one of this one of these sides here yeah here are the two clean out symbols here okay right there and right there right there i' seen that it runs straight up and connects here okay and then I think we were thinking this Queen El for this garage but it's not this garage goes straight off oh really it goes to the north okay y would you have to get an easement from that garage at 109 also to put some dirt on or we should temporary easement like you would not need a permanent easement no so if you ran that sewer up there to that Alleyway there would would you just rehook up Jean kleos to that manhole to eliminate all that absolutely you would y so this this 200 people showing subbing to the South three services would get hooked to that final at 532 Maine y The Butcher Shop there Y and then uh Gerald Anderson okay those would be the three so they would tie in and then that would flow that would flow D North to that intersection and that's really where our where our project prior to this discussion of separating these sewer services our project started at that intersection of Shabad and Halliday okay there that was the previous prior to tonight that's been the limits of the project so if to connect those three that you're just talking about so then where would it the sanitary sewer is what we're looking to to eliminate the I that was the primary for this right so yes correct y are we going to go due east from there then or we going to go back over to the winters it goes north to the southwest corner of the winters property at 200 North Front Street and then Cuts do East okay all right but that that would be a new line we're proposing there correct and vacate the existing sanitor who oh that's the sanitary sew on that side that's on this side oh okay that's the one okay that one's better did that you said $55,000 to run that 65,000 and that's setting a manhole on that South End there too then yep yep so that's manhole 200 High the service Ty you know Turf establishment gravel surfacing it's the total construction cost there's a culbert that would need to be replaced incl eement to it does we included a a lump some dollar amount to acquire permanent easements that's what all this would be contingent on that's the most important thing to to remember with this sanitary sewer addition to the South to be contingent on three easements where the locker hooks up there wouldn't be a manhole there the way it looks right just a te right we would just grab their service excuse me and bring it straight west and W it into the main kind the black lines there from the building so blacks arrows exist Services the the the lines green arrows those are po new service location yeah what's nice about it is because one he cleans up the gets that sanitary sewer out of that Donovan company's property and yeah and also the beat locker but then also provides I guess you know you're removing I don't know how many feet of existing clay pipe and if there's already been catary sort of services backed up in there um you know it's a new PVC pipe it's gasketed and watertight and you typically don't see plugging due to R intrusion that sort of thing so it's less maintenance I guess it's bu maintenance for the property owners and best calls to the city because they seers backing because now it's in main very very little service pip I'm sorry go back to so we would add 200 feet to add this but we would be eliminated how many feet of the existing clay pipe did eliminate because of the situation not a bad idea yeah I would say 300 because I mean oh really coming from that direction it could possibly coming from right now there's two parallel Old Clay services and we would then just have one new PVC service and then connect those up again contingent on the the easement acquisition unfortunately there's not that right away doesn't continue to the sell you would need easement from two Property Owners basically three well the meat locker Richard Maran polar and then the property to the north is di po wonder they yeah not thinking myself get a of their Atty or something they might be more than happy to take a couple gr yeah yeah what happens when replace that behind all the other houses on Halliday chance are all their clay slip tiles too yeah yeah we we would far back and they're going to have to connect to them not very far back we would just we'd have the new main go in and we'd have wise for each service and just a few feet or so we try and connect them up right then and there and the inspiration for the sewer separation was there's a sewer backup on that joint service shop and draw Anderson there so what if we move East West line 20 ft South under the other property it's a fair question Tom what what we're up against there is the the farther we move that salt that grade is the grade on that pipe is extremely flat uhhuh right now and it runs due south out of there and then it bends to the north to go up parallel to Holiday Street okay so from that point on there's a grade change yeah it's very it's very flat all that is very flat even the pipe running north of Halliday street is extremely up parallel to Halliday Street East of Halliday street is extremely flat yeah so the farther we rot that to the sou the more length of pipe we have but we have we still only have that same amount of vertical to make up so I'm saying is that that will make that sanitary sewer run flatter Which is less than ideal so we we prefer not to push that pipe to the sou other thing we run into is there is a chain link fence along that Donovan properties property um that we would get into there okay fair fair answer um but what's driving all of this is our I and ey this is what started all of this so we're being directed by the state to do something so we don't really have much choice but to come to some sort of a an agreement here I guess that pipe that runs parallel with holiday that's pretty shallow in there too right yes we get this taken care of why we potentially could eliminate a good portion of what we're dealing with right now you know we would hope because we made a lot of attempts and they're still I know still a big one but this I mean when they did that exploratory dig there there was about so much water running in there well if that runs 247 yeah adds up it was just as clean water as could be yeah so and if them houses have perimeter to s up here which they possibly could it wasn't against the law to have that when they were built so that's where it ended up what happens when we shut all that off I mean you know shut off you have a and if you're actually seeing that water and it's coming from a perimeter tile around the hole even by replacing the pipe you're not GNA that water will still be there the only way to get rid of that is to disconnect the tile from the house and I think that was you know part of that some public inspection that is a City License to try to narrow down where if if there tiles around and if there were um plans put plans together disconnected has that been videoed from the north edge of Winter's property to the north has that been videoed at all we made it from the north edge of winters property we made it about 150 ft to the north with Jed clean when they were here they were videoing it and locating it so we knew exactly where it was um what did they find yeah it's not it's not the pipe isn't an imminent failure it's not perfect um but it does you know that's that was where that kind of that portion of the project where we felt maybe the bang re buff wasn't there we construct that portion because it isn't underneath a drainage swell and again I would I would be under the opinion that water running clear water running through that portion of the pipe would be coming from the homes and the long Services there just reconstructing the pipe itself likely isn't going to eliminate a lot of that ini I those long Services those long Holiday Street it's likely a the primary contributor to Chances Are they're all clay tile too right hes to the main yeah Y and we got how many one two three four is about uh what six or seven houses going down there I think I had seven total services on Long Holiday Street so there could be damage to them too point A to point B could be yeah there I think they would be good houses to investigate for a perimeter tile because when houses are graded like that um their backyard falls off it the opportunity in the day if you're digging a perimeter tile to hook in the sanitary sewer let a gravity flow up the backyard can do can you make those individuals change that now even though it was put in 50 70 years ago it would be a city ordinance I know at one point we looked at um city ordinance I can't don't think I can recite out the top my head it was either there was an interior connection it was out was one or the other there's an interior footing tile connection and an exterior footing tile connection and one of them was elicit and one of wasn't meaning one the city had the right to find them certain amount of dollars per month until they disconnected that footing tile so you could go in them seven households and go on the cleanout and go down and you could get on the perimeter of the house and you could either with a camera you could see whether there's a perimeter tile or not that'd be the only way you'd ever determine it right right and the challenge you run into if there isn't a clean out then you know how do you how do you do it well some of them you probably could get down near floor drain maybe yeah sorry I think gonna say the same thing I am yeah I was going to say during con y when that service gets cut and they're going to hook into the new main that's the time to go up there with a camera and look to see if something's dumping in the top of it right at the house the sanitary SE service M the perimet tile is up up a little bit higher than the sewer is the lowest in this project if it went the way [Music] to way it is right now we'd be setting seven new manholes are we setting a new manhole in uh County Road 35 in the street yes y the reason there it's a angle change right assuming assuming that sanitary sewer gets relocated to the south side of the Winter's property if that was a true statement would be changing the angle of that pipe coming into the manhole so what kind of total do you have for a cost now then if you added that 65 in do you have kind of aary one yeah the whole so the whole project started out at 180 but we've taken out a portion of it um taken out the north half and it in that cell pass it's probably extremely close to watch I think we're still out that $180,000 Mark Holes everything yeah okay hookups everything um if you redone that and you could R it on the south side of that property that manhole that's sticking out of the ground you dig that down eliminate it gone correct okay then we would fill the pipe with sand that runs underneath the shed that's what I was wondering do you fill it on both ends yeah yeah just to put blow pipes on on both ends they P fall you see the sand coming out the other side oh really the whole thing is fil yeah way to eliminate any potential for s or anything like that developing 180 is that with your guyses fees on there too but no no cost of easement yet or anything right no cost of easement or anything your your your engineering fees are all in there yeah okay like you say that's a pretty much good swap from North to the South yeah yeah yeah I'm talking slightly off the cuff there but if those are equidistant should be very close what we want to do I guess that's a up WEA we can get up get an agreement with the property owner to put it on the southern Port that that ground changes that much from that line there to say 15 feet farther south of a contour or elevation isn't the there yeah significantly higher in elevation is that what you're ask okay yeah yeah I don't know the sou size property higher than where now yeah well I guess that brings us right back to the uh discussion we need to have you know what's a fair amount to gain the easement that's where that's where we're at right now right yeah that that was discussed you know yeah that was discussed councelor last meeting we went through a cost of the evaluation of the land what a what that is worth when you run that calculation for a permanent easement we need a tenth of an acre the cost the value of that land is $2,000 I guess why I'm here again I know last meeting you guys kind of made me an offer and you guys kind of were under the impression probably should consult Kennedy or whoever before so I guess I I don't know like I don't know if that offer still stands or that's why I'm yourself yeah we did check with Kennedy um and it's so my concern is I think 10,000 is too much I do too but it's so we no matter what we're going to set a precedent and then so when we continue on with these projects you know once we pay you something because it this is this is good Thunder money and it's you know it's tax money and we're gonna set a precedent now we're gonna have to pay for an Eastman every time we need an Eastman which is something I don't want to get into we can we can do it I know we can there are other ways to obain this just takes longer and again my my Crux is the fact that that there was a right away back there that people built on and there's no it's it's no different in the Donan project you don't want to go on their stuff because there's a chain link fence there you don't want to use carols because there's a fence in the building you don't want to use lows because there's retaining wall building and a fence so I understand why you're asking me because I'm the path of loose resistance but again in my eyes if you want to take that path lease resistance I'm gonna have to be compensated for it and again I'm more than willing to work with you but I'm not going to do it for nothing and that's just that's just the case did you get to look at all the permitting Jeff from them fences and buildings that are on our right away now and you know again if the city granted them a permit and they put it on a our RightWay was that right or wrong that they should have never been built on there yeah I mean I think there was some research I was completely I mean at the city level but I did review those perm or the information that you sent and none of that was um anything related to what the eement or the RightWay in the backyard there this was all related to you sidey yard buildings and that sort of thing but nothing related to that backyard it wasn't compl located because there weren't any we didn't find any I didn't find any building permits for those fences and stuff in question I know there was one that we found but the other stuff those were the building permits that we found and none of them pertained to the the ease you know the property that is the issued the properties so if they built a building on there and they put a they put a fence on there and there's no permit for it the city didn't allow it they just did so if they have a building on there and we want to pursue using our RightWay or easement that we have right now who's up to who's who is it up to to move that building and move that fence and do we have to put it back when it wasn't something as a city you would want to do is you want to talk to the property owner and explain the situation say guys right now you've got uh a fence or shed on your on public right away and we don't know how it got there but it's on the RightWay and we need to use this right away for installation of a pipe um we need to relocated put back down and say well if you don't want to relocate it we'll have the contractor cut through and digs it sets it off to the side but not can Restore for you so so okay they're on our easement what happens if you move that pipe off our easement and say you either got to have that stuff moved or how about if we just drink a new trench where it's best access to gold saer and leave that alone trade them trade them that easement that have there now for a right away to put our pipe in you know mean further to the West towards the right I don't know right away is what Exel energy is to use to get to their HS if that makes any difference yeah but they can't they can't drive through that yard and all then either right because they've been coming on the old railroad property but we have the lawyer send him or send them a letter that they can't do that anymore so they have right now unless they go take that your right away will City they have that's part you know been talking about that that's part of the there's a number of utilities back there that are running in that area yeah just so you're aware so even if you put the sanitary sewer you're talking was wide well Tim 12 l so the RightWay back there m so it's it's very narrow the way it is and all the other utilities there could be installed in that 12f footer but what it have to happen is a lot of times utility companies little F because you have to SP utilities or workaround utilities order to get it in it's just it's really narrow typically you like to have more than that you know especially St things so if we did you know did get all the property owners move their sheds and their fences and such um there's a good change it's probably still going to need moreway easement in order to get installed because I've kind of taken that from the beginning that even if that area was clear that that's not the best path anymore at one time it probably was but I mean yeah you got the polls there that mean just it's kind of tough to dig next for a poll they have to be held up and it's not that it can't be done but it would be it'd be really challenging some of those where you want to consider fren constructing it but you can't construct just constructing 8 in with 4% so well here it says from the lawyer that you know and you talked about the lengthy process would be the condemnation process where it could be determined an easement value would be determined by the courts I mean so that just brings up a new problem if there's no access to these power poles and there's a Transformer hanging on there and people are without power what's going to happen there well there must be access 12 foot access is is wide enough for the power company Sol Street yeah and then go they can zoom right up there there's just no access on the very North End on the very North End there's no access that's on your property right the driveway is on our property but the tree line has always created the problem to get to the power PL so they would go into the our property to get to them which up until four 3 four years ago was fine until they back you into my garden in the middle of the night for their ease and completely destroyed my and so that's when I have the lawyer write to them that they are no longer to go on that land is the city obligated to give them a RightWay are you talking ex this is excels right away well I mean you tell companies have the ability use the public right away unless you've got something in place that would prohibit that but it's public right away so as long as you work retail the companies because they do provide service to the residents in the town the other option is not to work with them and they don't provide service at all but typically those utilities are going in the public RightWay outside on the edges you know outside of the roadways that sort of thing typically city city utilities are fit in roadways there's not a roadway here but um it would be something that you would expect the utility companies to be able to but you're talking about Excel now they could come down the existing easement Fest on the north side of of Bretz building and go north and I mean yeah on the North side and going north from there up that right away no I think we're it's all built on there's a fence on the whole rway going north or on it from North then from the driveway that comes into the railroad property they just pull in the driveway and but isn't there trees built on there they just go around it on the end the end yeah but that's were your property right right but we've always them use that driveway to get back to where they need I mean dve yeah so there is right away all the way up through there but the letter you wrote them to the lawyer that don't pertain to the north that they can gain access to the right of way maybe there's up in here somewhere okay but all right yeah we're talking about right here this is where the we're worried about Excel can't get into yeah well can't they come right down this I think this is where your garden is that they got into Gard is the north side of J's yeah but there's an existing easement there that's according to this is a 20 foot existing easement there there is for the storm store pipe yeah for on the north side of the bre breast property y there is for that stor pipe so they could come through that it's half and half the way it looks right well yeah right I mean there's there yeah on both sides of that line but they can use that thing so that easement is for lth County to access and maintain that pipe it doesn't provide access to the any other property for anybody else typically an easement you know has access to it from what I'm seeing and reading where theyve got it noted I think I looked at that originally it's only purposes utilities and that's BL Count's because of the land it drains out here then you know because they don't even have a there's no intake there well there is two yeah there is an intake there okay and one okay that's that went to court between 35 and 40 years and they lost the fence you can see right there to and there's not withstanding this flows this way right yeah I mean we we be our there's no reason even you know is between them red lines right must be that's our existing them two red lines y That's it so this project isn't doing anything with this line here then or is it well they're going to set a manhole here and then we set a manhole on the north side of J Brett's property was we're going to try to line the rest of it correct y try to line the rest serving the north which makes sense I mean that's the the logical thing to do there because wide right away just isn't wide enough for everything need conf rning that's the problem right right so I mean say if you went on our RightWay and there's fences conduct constructed all the way through there you'd have to buy obviously some land pile the dirt on where to construction to make the property owner happy yeah yeah I think one thing to to consider having our minds to the the location of the PO sanitary sewer that we have shown there the green pipe is further west than the existing pipe is now trying to get that off the edge of the property yeah yeah okay we can get contact them and see stor yeah the issue is when you start digging a trench it's hard to get rid of your dirt I know yeah your holes behind you City our side yards have back for commercial property 15 y that last so that's why the building is so close to the sanary Sewer then could be 15t off that side yard there well more than 15 feet off the side yard oh on the North side I see that's a good question you probably are about 15 feet off that North yeah you scaled it so then that's why the building is so close to sanary assuming that's the reason right because you push the building as far north up to be quite dirty dirt yeah yeah could be if there's any there is there I don't know and that was all more do we have another meeting and invite all the property owners here and tell them what's happened I hope so I that's what we should do because we're trying to put this all on them they aren't even here to defend why they both on AR what's the magic this I mean this new line that's a proposed newor no sanitary sanitary yeah yeah and this is the old one yep there's there's the old one there's a man hole right here right here yeah that's but this is the old line here yep all right that one there's the one that's higher out of the ground right the F back one or that or this one the one coming from the locker is that the high one y that's what I thought this one here is sticking out of the ground about four feet or so and okay so it blows from here this way then uh down here goes down the alley and it exits the thatment that we fixed there a couple years ago that's a straight shot there then that's a straight shot and so this way here it wouldn't be a straight shot anymore and it's 8 inch go back over that again Joe it's 8 inch from where so right now where 2006 Holiday Street project there's a Manel at the intersection of Halliday and shaat Street yep right from there it's going east from there it's 10 inch and then it connects it downsizes about 100 of that manhole it downsizes to 8 inch then it's 8 inch over to the county road the county road okay all that is 8 inch there then okay that's actually 8 inch then from that block between Front Street to County Road and H Street through that's also 8 inch where it dumps off to 12 inch then towards the ponds block bottom right now you know I guess we've only got two Property Owners involved in this whole situation where there's one to s s other property of owners that should be here tonight to express their views maybe we're just going to have to invite all them property owners here and tell them what do you want us to do yep I agree do you I know it'll push the project back a little bit y you know what do you mean tell them what do we want them to do well I mean they should be informed of why we're doing this the way we're doing this their Fen is going to have to get moved or what one one two sheds one shed's right on the property line the other one's right down the middle of it right now do they even know that we're trying to to do anything with the easement or the RightWay we have and that they've built on it so we got to make them aware of what has happened I mean I think they should I think they should have the opportunity to at least know what's going on yeah least know think they should be aware too but I I also think that we should let them know you know unfortunate circumstance you built there but right I mean even I don't want to offer them money to yeah you know yeah I mean even even just but something as simple as maybe they're going to lose their perer to maybe they're going to lose maybe they're going to have a wet basement I mean who knows you know when we get done here you think about it though I mean they should know they're going to have to get inspected to make sure there's no tile Stu too they're going to make sure they're aware of that so there's going to be a cost to them to fix it yeah because we're trying to eliminate an i and I and like Joe says and Jeff that they could be perimeter tiles and that's where that clear water is coming from we will not know until you go through the basement floor and video it going outside the house we need to review the Sydney ordinance on first clear on what's elist what's not because it's exterior puding tile is is allowable right now yeah and again that would if that hasn't been changed in the last 35 40 years you know that stands as it is so and you know all this has been pushed on us by the state to eliminate all this yeah so any there does still the the East West line is still in question right the East West line there is no right right so we still need to get an agreement with Jay and Brett on these L the West line I mean right now you're pushing that sanitary where you got it shown is you really don't need an e Menor right away for that line because you constru in exact same location right and so that's you could construct it in a single on the west side of the property and call it good now be talking about it okay but if you want to shift the sanitary sewer to the south then on the property you get it out from underneath the shed from the building um then you would need eement to do that but now way you got that line coming from the south it would intersect right there where you got it probably wouldn't want to move it right that line coming from you know that green proposed line you got coming from the South intersects right there where it is right now yeah so you probably wouldn't want to move that line on the west side of Winter's properties right that mostly needs to go back where it is yeah yeah I mean it's pretty simple you know you put it back where it is and you know we're all done talking and we just construct it where it is or you negotiate with the property owner determine what would be acceptable to them my initial thought was is that you know as a city maybe J mentioned that but as a city you were providing the easement you were comparing the easement you were going to get that recorded at the county um so there is some value there to that property for doing that there's also value that up the property because now you got that pipe anded out of there or fill the sand so that goes away you got the manuals down Belgrade so those go away um and you got clear title now to that sanly nine so me there's some value there for that loan but it's ultim up to the property on the next site we can't convince right right of that it's UL up to them but as a city you still ultimately have the choice say put it all just put it back where it is and don't there's no C to do that those little private lines like from the jeal property do you have to fill that line with sand also I would feel less inclined to fill those with sand there're smaller diameter pipe and there's not a structure or a roadway above them if you all did get in there I take it these little round black circles or trees there yes okay so obviously they're they would be in the way they'd be cleaned up and taken out of by the city there would be no recourse of taking them out because they on our right away if they're in the public RightWay we can take them off okay I think Jeff makes a fair point you could relocate the East West line we get e on the south side of the property to replace line where is now in north south on the on the west side of the property an option how does that work then if you got more dirt than you can keep on your easement yeah we could get into a temporary easement there it's not it's not permanent but you got to remember there's the prescriptive use that's your question but if you're constructing it reconstructing the pipe in its current location you don't need a temporary easement to put the material off to the side you all you're required to do is restore it to its current condition um so I mean if it takes you 20 feet you want to minimize it of course right but you just require to restore with current condition do you have to se it back and everything well you have toore to it's gravel there you have to put gravel back on if it's grass you gotta get grass back there if it's stop you there you gota pay it or AB so I still agree with Robert's suggestion that we get the other property owners in here to and explain the whole project just as we talked about tonight and then everybody's a little more informed yeah because we don't have to wait a month you know do it next week next week whatever get everybody's time frames you know that still doesn't cure the problem going east and west no it doesn't and no it doesn't but at least it would it would bring everyone into the picture and everyone then would know you know before you go that route though mayor member sorry um there was some discussion about you know we mentioned what the value of the property is for the E we said about $2,000 one time I don't know if the council want to see even consider um because we haven't really talked about it much but I mean there was a number out there let's say it's $5,000 let's say it's 10,000 let's say it's 20,000 um number somewhere out there but as a city are you comfortable with 2,000 are you comfortable with five are you comfortable with 10 or ultim what is the property owner looking for for those easement because like I say as a c you have the ability just to put it back for and not pay anything but then we have to deal with the shed there well you'll have a bottleneck still have that in pipe up in that point of a 10 inch going both directions and then it's just going to be an 8 inch underneath there it would be I'm it would be lined then if we went back yeah you you could line it um we get do a real small stretch like that we probably want to get our eyes on that stretch and see if it warrants line or not yeah I would wouldn't line it as part of this project another bigger city you do wouldn't it be more beneficial to the city and the property owners to move it to the South so we don't find dirty dirt if you found dirty dirt would that be more beneficial everybody you know because you said it would be the properties owners cost if the dirt got dirty or do we have to who pays for it the city I mean as a as a s you would be responsible I me if you're buil if you're placing a pipe there that's your pipe you have the right to do that materials your contract counter C materials you ultimately have to um dpca requires you to tig with those you have to pay to get those mitigated but it would just be the area that we're digging in right so so that shed got put over our right away just like these fences and shed that here got put over I right away y before anything ever anybody ever gave it any thought yeah the difference though is is that there is an unofficial LED recorded right away that's called a prescriptive right away prescriptive b line was there you know right I mean 40 50 60 years ago whatever you know that's the difference there however what is the width of a of a prescriptive right away well that's what I was mentioning is I mean you're just required as part of the prescriptive easement that's what you're referring to I think yeah easement I mean yeah yeah um you're allowed to get in there and U do do what it takes it takes to get your pipe removed and repl so if was 20 ft is 20t right right your obligation of the city is to just restore you can confirm at the city turn you just have to restore it to its current condition all right and how close is that pipe to to Brett's building now six feet six feet deep right there up against yeah those man was confusing so man the manholes are about 8 and a half ft deep but they're sticking up out of the ground three or so feet deep so I think it's five or six feet deept deep yeah okay and 6 feet away now so it' be like a one to one yeah what that that one includes you know footing IM IM what type of footings are down there but if those are from an engineering point of view if you were to just dig right on that line is there a way that you can prevent anything from happening to press building I mean what can you do to to make that happen well they would do I mean they would have to use a box um probably you know one of those trench boxes box veral they pull that along with them that's typical of any deep sanitary C Construction or that's confined in an alley some lot of times we see that but it's a box a vertical wall that their back ho is able bucket's able to get into that and excavate the material and keep the walls vertical want you go the service you'd have to connect to the service which is there um but you we know that's at and so as they got through there then they would expose that and um connect to the PIP connect to the service pipe with the new pipe and backf back right as you pull her forward as you pull her forward y so from an engineering point of view it's doable done all the time it's possible but there's always you know you get you get a broll contractor somebody that really doesn't care or not careful there's always a chance that you're you're the ones watching this though and guaranteeing this we're not we're not you have a four foot Frost footing there's a four foot Frost footing all the way around it so you guys got keep in mind all that put there put the rail put the railroad off so it's not all comp one to one might not work out well that's why I'm asking you know is there another engineering way of doing this than just digging the trench law there and having that just be one to one up the B up to your foundation or whatever you know I know you know fact those footings there's some parts of those footings that are fourt wide so I don't know where they from Center and four wide so feet on each side wall yeah I mean it would take contractor have to use a box go through there doesn't need a one to one it's a vertical slope the width of the the box for five yeah I think they can be on the four inside dimensions it's like five exterior I guess what I'm what I'm coming to here is that there is a value to breath too to move that out and allow the city to do that you know what I mean again my whole Crux of all this is said seven properties that are affected on this and there's one property that has to give something up again my standpoint is I feel like I should be compensated to make this easy on everybody other than me you talk about all that all the things that could happen you talk about digging next to the building you talk about you know the thing is if that thing goes down the center of that ditch like we're talking on your proposal here and it goes down the south side of the thing you don't even have to talk to the people on H Street cuz it's even farther away from their encroachments onto that right away and everybody's de you know so far so so so far as the as the um RightWay is concerned with the project itself would need to be discussed with them you know I understand what you're saying them like it affects correct correct correct correct and I understand there is a value to the city that's what Jeff is saying too there is a value but coming to that value is is a problem you know I don't think the reason they're not asking those people to move the fence though is for convenience I think at this point you're ask you're asking to come this way not because of convenience but because you actually need more space yeah that that is part of it um no there we need more space 12 foot isn't wide enough is it line it is more space is needed there yeah it is yeah so what is the number that you're looking for here well like you said that was off that was off the cuff too I mean that wasn't you know you guys haven't kind of really said yes that's off stand no we can't do that I I'm saying 10,000 is too much that's in my opinion as I see it as is you know but if you would throw out something too to give us a little to work with too that would help too I mean thing is is I look at it with these guys they said two meetings ago that to move one fence that one fence farad $10,000 to move that one fence so I'm saying you don't have to move priv gas fence you don't have to move Li's fence you don't have to move Carol's fence you don't have to move Carol's building you don't have to move Li's building you have to move L raining La so all those things I mean what that c to 60,000 so that's I don't I don't know I don't know um but we don't have to move I guess we can stay where we are stay where we are understand again like if you want that thing move to itself where you want it and you you want to put it where your plan is well last meeting I'm being I'm getting mixed up here but again for me at this point I think going through my property where you want your proposed to I'm fine with that but again it's going to have to be compensated and $2,000 ain't G to be enough I've said that I don't need to say it again you're saying 2,000's not enough not enough and he's saying 10,000's too much so where do we meet in the middle five I think you guys offer me 10 grand I'll take 10 grand for it we'll call it a day and that'll be it you guys can dig your easements where where you have them on the line and I'm fine with that but that's what it is that's the number you guys threw up if you guys don't want to pay that number that number should have been thrown off black me that's well you didn't want to take few so I said well do you want 10 you didn't make your mind up at that meeting either you question also on the other side it was the fact that well we don't know if we can do that because we need to we need to so there was there was a little bit of on both sides was so that's where it started well it was more of a question do you want 100 Grand do you want 10 grand do you want two grand I mean I'm just saying he was throwing it out there as like what are you wanting again if I would have said 10 grand was fine last week you guys completely fine what's possible boring through that dig on front back there the 20 foot and four underneath the building um the whole thing from there to there we can't Bor the whole thing because the grades are too tight yeah boring boring you generally have to be at 1% to be able to construct it feasibly and this pipe is at like 0.2% so significantly flatter so war is not feasible over a long distance here there's a statement from our City attorney that said the city can negotiate a price with the property owner but the price needs to be reasonable as the council members are spending public funds so if the value is determined by the court which if we couldn't come to an agreement would have to be um determined by the court if the court determined it was 2000 you know that's that's what it is then so we would want to come to an agreement before we had to got all kinds of money you guys have as little money as you have by paying 10,000 bucks right so it would be better last last meeting about the fact that hey you know if we get on this way we can get some really good bids we can get people lined up because we got lots of people out there looking for work right now and you know so that's an advantage also to the city and you know the quicker it's settled that that Advantage stays on the if we wait to for two three four months to litigate or to do whatever you know that that all that whole landscape can change yes so what happens is youd have to go through ENT domain basically what happens is you get an attorney your City attorney does can initiate that it takes time to do that but what happens if then you go to a court a district court and um then you need to not sure it's a jury trial either one but whatever they decide ultimately we won't be doing it this summer they' have to get an attorney to represent their interest if they want otherwise they can choose to do it on their own um but then there's some cost involved for them so it's it's one of those things you know every time you talk to train joke so right right it's unfortunate well yeah we still would have to have an attorney draw it up no matter if we agreed on on an Eastman tonight we still have to have Kennedy or hire a real estate attorney to write up the easement it'll have to be recorded um you know well with all that being said I am personally perfectly okay with 7500 bucks tonight as a you know we could come to that agreement here at Council if that would be agreeable to them otherwise I think we need to invite everybody back in here talk about it so everybody knows what what's going on at this particular time and and uh maybe maybe we don't do this project this year I don't know you know maybe we do something else maybe there's another idea maybe Mr Carol's here who seems to know everything about everything in construction maybe he'll have a different idea of how to handle you know I don't know I'm just saying you know designation or what what that comes with the Union designation or what well I I don't want I guess I don't want to comment there [Laughter] but you know out of 7500 Because by the time by the time we're going to be in 10,000 by the time we get the agreement written up I'm sure there's Court filing fees to record an easement I don't know what they are oh oh absolutely I mean we'll be at we'll be in 10 grand by the I think it cost us three get the school switched over or something like that before we got paid back for it you know something like that aent member right you know you know so we'll have 10 in it but it's all time it's all done yeah right and then another line here it says you know the city uh would be setting a precedent for future properties and that's my biggest concern pardon that's my biggest concern I mean how many more of these do we have God only knows you know that are private little lines well we got one right behind here but the thing is this particular project we're trying to get ahead of the state on right there's a little it's a little bit different than just going out here and looking at but you know South Halliday yeah I mean it's not a state mandate pushing us to do something there whereas here there really is how does 75 sound to you I really like 10 but I mean that's kind of where I'm at that's what you guys offered so that's kind of why I came into this thing looking at so I kind of like too but I mean like you say Tom I mean it's a state thing you guys start getting sign 2500 extra dollars yeah and then that all of us are going to be paying for that everybody lives yeah that goes on the water bill so you're not going to win I'll tell you I pay plenty of property tax to so yeah well aware of what proper I'm sure I'm sure yours is a lot more than my house but it wouldn't be a property it be on your user fees for your water and sewer that's how the cost is Justified for this how about this one can you you know 10,000 I don't know what size of those easements are but you could consider 5,000 for the East West one on the south side and then put the other one back where it's that you know us on the western side of the property and eement on the West Side the E on the West Side people Sy pay for half for the five grand 5,000 for the East down the south side I mean that's an option that's an option instead of paying 10 grand but they're asking 10 grand for the whole the Westerly and the southernly easement just pay for the southernly easement and keep the West Pipe where it is replace it where it's at the West pip that goes behind his property is what you're saying yeah and to me that's even more because I mean that's it's you know if you compare the areas for two I'm not sure what area they are but they look very similar other than the one's 10 feet and the other's 15 feet so in reality it looks like you almost paying a little bit more than you would be if you were going by the square foot the easement on the west side is 15 e on the south side is 10 and I think the one on the south side is probably the most important something has to go East last R of sanary can you can you show me that yeah I would much and not even use we can't well we can't because 10 we're paying for five here in five years here and leave this where it was we wouldn't count we wouldn't do an easement on his oh okay oh okay so we just five for this matter and we would put this for the existing ones we wouldn't need the eent to come yeah shows a b better there's that five 10 footer there and 15 footer through here and it's about same amount air that's what I'm thinking you know we just scrap this one and just do this one put it back where it's at here something like that it's an [Music] option it's just the those two manholes that are on that property if you got the on the existing one right now what would happen to them if you got a new easement just fill them with dirt yeah we would take them down a couple feet and fill them with sand you don't have to remove them by laot no okay I didn't know if that had to come out you know if that adds a cost or well where we at what we at is last week 10,000 wasn't good or wasn't accepted but now tonight it is City's offering 7500 so I there's nothing to say that I want to accept it at last meeting at the last meeting you guys told me will we do anything we need to consult our attorney so I that like well it gives me a week to $10,000 mon I would say I took a week I feel $10,000 is fair you now tonight it's well you know I know we offered or threw that number out and we told you you know we couldn't exactly commit to that but no one one person can't make that offer I understand you also said you had to think about it too right I'm not saying you're wrong or I'm wrong or whatever yeah you and I understand the precedent thing you want you look around town the this you're going to run into this probably hardly ever I mean you're you're you're talking about draining the whole west side of town down through this project and you're not probably going to end up with anything to that magnitude um yeah what about you already already draining you're already are draining I mean existing yeah maybe I should just tell the state we're not going to do it and then they'll find same problem back behind your house we could probably get an extension or something and you're going to have every prefer want there's drainage behind Tom's house too so it gets that point I to what you said what did you say well he said there's none none going to be that critical but they got tile behind Tom's house oh down the road it's going to be the same way then you got how many Property Owners involved yeah there's another spots around the city where you're back you got sanitary seers in the backyards or in the alleys which are very narrow so it's not maybe taking as much drainage I think that's why that's why he said you set a precedence well if we give him 10 the next everyone from there on is going to be 10 10 10 10 10 because you get him 10 again I guess when you run it in somebody's backyard I would assume you split it between the two properties in your backyard that that's again I keep saying but my thing is is you're not splitting it off anybody else's property all coming off that's why I'm asking for what I'm asking for and it's already there already been there for 60 years it's already been there get brand new you think there's any obstacles on that South South Edge border there any cement anything anybody know I don't think what was there 100 years ago I don't know how you know yeah because the old fire station number one was right here yeah yeah I don't know I struggle with this because it's one of those things that I you know I said earlier on it's it's a benefit for both the prop the city and the property owner to push it to the South you know ultimately as a city you have the choice and I've said this before but it's just you have the choice to construct it right back where it's at there's two issues one close to the building um going to be a little challenging along there and then two you're you have to go underneath that shed which you have a portion in there that's not uh but it's not not the end of the world I mean and then the unfortunate part about it as the property owner standpoint is that cleaning his property up better well yeah then you got the you got that in easement that's dedicated so now if you if you were to try to sell that property in the future it's got clear essentially clear title it doesn't have a prescriptive e so there's a there's a benefit to the property WR and there's a benefit to the sleep it's just to me I my I can't get into that M I don't think I think it's exchange and make money you it's not a wash a wash that's it thank you it's but I can understand in order to make it gold there's there's some additional there that might be necessary because I mean we're talking $22,000 for um the value of the property and then another E and all that preparing that getting it uh prepared and recorded you're probably talking maybe five grand or something like that um but in the end it's not $10,000 to me if you're just go on by the Numbers it's not 10,000 it's more like five at the most I I agree because I said that from the beginning if it negatively impacted you I could see more value in it but it's actually not negatively impacting you and you saying that we're not doing the other part for convenience but they're saying it's not convenience that we're not doing it there they actually want to move it or it's better to move it to the South so let's say I had built my building on my property and at this point you guys have just have to sit there and what you guys would that would be negatively impacting you so it would be worth more I'm saying is you w have a choice but to use that RightWay that's behind my building so I followed the rules of what I'm saying here the other people do not so by this by that means I I'm sitting here going well I follow the rules I did everything right and now they're going to take and come out of my property because the other people didn't in my opinion for the president for the president's part of it I would knock those fences out but they're these guys are saying it's not about the fences it makes more sense to move it to the because I mean for my own property I wanted to put an addition onto my house and my husband said the sewer line runs through there he said you can but if the city ever needs it they can bash that thing down and that's on us so that's where that's where I sit with the presidents have knock these fences out but that's not if that was the case that would be if that was the case that would be the case but it's not they're they're stating that it's not about the fences it's about making more sense to move that pipe further down right yeah because it's getting it off right now you know meanders sh the property just different never be able to add on to your shed yellow it is now I know to say value there so because you're you're saying our value is not having these guys knocked down their fenes but that's not actually it's not actually I guarantee you go to those people and say okay knock down your fence that's not the case but that's not the case if if it was just about their fences we could do that but these guys are saying it makes more sense to put this pipe where it is not because of those fences but because of just I mean it's the city you don't have to knock the fences down you can put it back right where it is and you don't have to knock any fences but again that's going to cost them up right is that going to cost put that fence back I'm just saying no I'm just saying it don't have to put back you ever dig up to the building and bore under the building and go so that's can you ever dig in the existing line right now and then when you get to the shed or under the shed and pull pipe yeah there's option to pipe burst through there it's pipe burst yeah but yeah you can be done how costly is that you look at Pipers and that whole stretch along adjacent to the building under the shed and all that yeah likes that it's that $20,000 they're always after but you're going to have dug from both sides of that so there they're not going to have to dig down anyway you say that well if you burst that through there bore it you're GNA have to dig down on both sides yeah so you got the cost of that digging digging so they're just boring that through there well you'd be digging the whole thing up to the shed and you'd bore under no he made the comment about boring alongside the the building his new building oh if we were concerned about digging so close I'm not sure on the gr though it's so flat yeah I guess I would be hesitant to do that simply because with pipe bursting um you might act the grade that you need only this much fall in 100 feet that's what I just going to ask you how much fall do you have from manhole to manhole it's extremely flat yeah 0 2% like Jeff said which is two10 about three inches a little bit over maybe yeah about three inches and 100 and what is what are you supposed to have four10 and 100 feet almost half yeah half so we're about half of what we should be exactly exactly so we left the way where it was right now redid that line they would never ever be able to extend their building versus if we moved it there Bren Brett I mean could move his he could add on to his building another what 20 30 feet not saying you would but there's a possibility right now you could so there there is a benefit for you too by doing it that way I'm not gonna Hur you guys there's benefits to me there's benefits to you right John you're rful quiet yeah I must be thinking I don't know what to think right now well do we need another week to consume what we learned tonight or I think so huh I think so yeah invite the other property oners there long this we thing to and let's all get together and talk about it well it's still going to affect them if whatever do so they know that yeah they should Beed dirt work on their property right now half them probably don't even know if because if they're not paying attention no you can't go to that County easement and go north with our East with our sanitary sewer and then come back south that's all wrong there the fall right wrong the Fall's wrong yeah because that's the on the hill and that's down at the bottom of the hill and I was even just sitting here thinking before you you could put a lift station there at that one man and put a force man in it exact the existing y right over to where you need to be you know just need to be a force me that big you know 10 Grand Haven do that that's something about 10 grand just pops up everywhere well is that what we want to do then table F table it f when next meeting another meeting we down to 10 now we're not going up again a week just long enough to give everybody enough time to schedule again you know what do you guys' schedule you know if we did it next week this time Tuesday Thursday Friday whatever you them other property owners notice though too yeah right but I mean it's really important this group be here you know right Tuesday Thursday would work Monday we do is wait for three days for notice and if we want to invite Property Owners we probably should give a week think we should probably have to draft up some kind of short letter just saying close me if we do two weeks that's March 6 we got a game plan a Clos meeting which is CC for the next one that with Kennedy yeah I from tonight suris it has to do and property that type of thing called me I'm surprised so that is an option what's an option to do a closed meeting with just Council to discuss get our stuff figured out before we have another meeting and then present with from that the soonest you could do that it' be Tuesday Tuesday the 26 26 you have to do 3D I could put a notice up tomorrow so You' have Friday Monday and then Tuesday the 27 correct yeah and then it would just be the five of you then so then then would push this kind of a meeting out correct to possibly you could possibly do it next week as well we of the fourth but yeah the week of the fourth that would give people more time too like you're saying John do it t two Tuesdays in a row there that work the 27th and the 5th sounds good okay me somebody want to make that motion that work for any of you guys 7 o'clock yep the fifth how about you Jeff Jo yeah that work it's March 5th is with everybody well could we have a closed meeting before we meet and then just reconvene this meeting the closed meeting could be the 27 yeah and then just reconvene this but it might not be enough money time for them people right yeah that's the 27th same night you mean yeah no let's not do that okay you cut down meeting time I know I don't think right want to make a motion then for those two dates s Town made it someone second I'll second all in favor say I I oppos motion carried all righty any other questions for us you guys from Joe no questions I guess the that sanitary sewer extension went out would be something to think about there sewer separation talk about $65,000 the project cost the Big T there the biggest roadblock would be permanent easement acquisition talk Donovan companies to the sou of the there getting in contact with them you know being Corporation is a private stand service line not necess City's obligation to do it although there is some benefits with city unit service what happened to the old railroad property did that get given to the property owners it's a good question as it continues to the south south of shabot Street good question we that right away because that that Arch there kind of follows the property yeah railroad bed yeah all right all right well thank you guys thank you thanks Brett Jay um anything oh water meter installation pipe and some pump infections update no you guys were tbling that until Tom you decide if you were going to have a third party do that oh that's okay that was like $24,000 to have third party come in do it all Y and then it'll lates the issue yeah they're responsible for repairing if they damage yep plus they do the lead pipe thing they can do the lead pipe and the sun pump inspection at the same time the only thing is they aren't going to look for a so there are some houses that R should probably have to go back into Who's the who was the contractor it was through um um yes DSG there you go the water meter correct they have the third party that they would contact we would have I think we would send out the first letter and then they would take care of all the scheduling the whole works and they would have it done in a of the time that it would take our crew to do it at least well then and then the people the other cities I have talked to about doing it themselves is it it's timec consuming for their City Maintenance and then they don't get anything else done they don't get it done so if there's anything else going on you know they really can't you know only one anyway I like the idea of having a third party do it myself yeah you do like having a third party do the idea of having a third party do it because then we're going to get it done and Grace just said it'll take about two to three weeks if we have a third party they can get them all installed in that time majority mean this summer yeah yeah it would be this summer and not only that then we would actually have a thirdparty report to give to the MPC he said some pump is optional and we could have them do it or we could do it ourselves also the liability if something breaks when if race were to do it in the house then all of a sudden we're calling people out $7 a house he said it's $7 a house through the sun pump inspection option to add that on yeah I mean that's they can freeze the lines if they need toan right they've got all the parts there just that would be my opinion we broke something or race broke something whoever's doing it yeah yeah we've done it in the past but we have it's a too happy Nation myself I'm very conservative I do all my own stuff myself and 24,000 another 10 here we're going to have to raise the water rates and the rates you're you're the pain person that would do this yourself I put my own meter in too you know I mean I could go up there and put three of them in an hour I just but in this world I I think that we need to yeah I'll make a motion that we have epsg or whatever yeah do we have to have more than one bit not with this outfit doing it because they're already already in the contract the contract they're just you know providing this extra service service all right Tom made their motion something in a second no second all in favor say I rectly I motion carried so when can they get going well that's we want done next week no well we we'll also have to coordinate so if we want to go to a monthly billing for the water and sewer we'll have to coordinate that so we'll have to coordinate that with banon and then also coordinate the new programming with Banyon so I think probably it'll probably be sometime the summer probably after around end of June when we're quter ending our quarterly billing so we can get everybody kind of closed out I don't know exactly how that's going to work but we would have to yeah the idea would be was to do our meter reading for that quarter and then get started on that so I mean even if they could do it in like we read them in April so even if they they have April May and June or we read them in July they have July August September right well I think I suggested to Sue that we could if they put them in you could itemize one quarter by what prev we shouldn't have to though because we shouldn't have to but they're switching them in between there so they're going to go from start read yeah but you're going to go from feet to gallons yep and I've already talked to B about that and because we already have one that we're doing that with Chapel Street would it be more of a problem than if you just well it depends on what part of the Border it is I mean if we've got people you know irrigating you know watering their lawns filling pools you go back to the previous months of a year ago though when the day they change the meter out they should be able to read the meter down then the new meter you end on this you end on 19th you start the new one on the 20th whatever and they'll figure it out banan will help me with that but that's going to be a lot of reporting to you that hey 210 North Street went from this cubic feet to gallons and you know correct that's another reason why I think it's a good idea we have a third part to do this that just no it'll we still have to drive around there'll be a handheld and a it's it's like an iPad I think and then like an antenna or something on racist truck right yeah he'll just drive around y yep and it sends it right to my computer and just download it into banion and way we go so if the school gets converted to 21 Apartments there'll be just one main meter there or does anybody know would there be separate meters per that's up to him yeah I know that but uh um figure this into that cost or would that cost how would that meter cost be taken care of that's up to him yeah right am I I mean until he gets to that point yeah be just no action on that's so far out I think yet to okay and we need to switch all of them because like that 4inch water man I got that meter there that's be a$ 3,500 meter y we got to do it the whole idea is once we get all these done we won't have to do manual re yeah hopefully and then if there is a water Leaf we'll know yeah that's that's what IDE if we can get to monthly billing and these also will alert if there's issue race did say some of the meters we were thinking were bigger are smaller ones like the locker and the the Thunder or the restaurant and they're just the normal meter he just randomly went through to get an idea how many the bigger ones so the school and yours is oh yeah the biggest two in tone so I already bought three brand new meters for my Apartments down there and of course I shouldn't be bringing this up my God it might be a personal game I I got to I got to buy three brand new ones that haven't been even used yet the city does the city's going to replace even though they haven't been put into service I'm well well you're not going to be charged for the new meters okay that's what I was wondering yeah you're your new meter on the floor is just as valuable as mine in my basement today unless you want PID for him again all right so is that enough bra do you have anything on he's got his daughter asleep in his arm so he can't say anything um anything else in uh lead pipes uh what happens then if they find lead pipes maybe you guys can ask that who has to pay for it from we do curb stop to the house we do yeah that's that's we've been told didn't Brian say too that there's some the state's going to be doing some kind of grants work with that too we just have to have that rep with that reporting has to be done I think by September we don't have to dig them up this year report has to be completed by October October 16th wasn't there a thing on the news this morning that there Biden made $6 billion do available now for water infrastructure fresh water yeah I morning I believe I didn't see that the good thing about I gu questions you know is it when it if you do find the lead service that's what's GNA be nice about the inventory they're going to be able to note and there's a spreadsheet Joel or somebody we can get that to you let you know where that's at but there's a spreadsheet to the Department of Health has um is a good tool for filling out and documenting what each one of those lead services are or if you find a lead service or if you don't file that service but um but that's ultimately got to be submitted to the Department of Health then what they they're going to do they've got funding available then go back and replace those Le services with something that's acceptable like copper plastic um those FES um as a city we'd have to get on a um public the PFA the Public Finance Authority um project prior list very simple to do uh but it's money that I think I can't remember is that forgiv after a certain amount of I can't remember the criteria but I me there wasn't any thought C invol with having to replace those CH there's funding out there is that a fund they keep refunding it reing every year revolving to that do you on that spreadsheet do you not even copper plastic or lead you write them down because you know in about 25 years they're going to come and say all those plastic lines you're drinking that and that's no good for you anymore so then we'll already be ahead of the game we'll know where they're at yeah in there down menu that choose non you got to choose lead it's not galvaniz or non yeah is galvaniz legal no I think that has to be replaced too either copper plastic right okay yeah soe I'll send you the spreadsheet it's on the Department of Health Website and that's what should be used to do the inventory because they got the res set dropdowns property address parcel ID um know even as far did you take a picture how was it there you know how was this verified I physically went in the basement I got a picture I got a record drawing because the project was constructed after 1986 I believe 8586 yeah then if you can confirm that that you know you know what you connected to his construct after 1986 you don't have to go on the house and verify if it's l or not because when Brian was talking about that first time he was saying it was probably a good idea to take pictures so yeah whiteboard or something and take pictures and but that's something we'll have to make sure with that he was supposed to um we have to meet up with him yet too he was going to walk us through all of that so with a third party meter install will they also do lead service inventory it's an option and it's it's like $7 a house for them to such a little amount of money that yeah right or you know we just have one of ours we have somebody coming going with them and doing that while they're doing you know because that could be done too we could have somebody there's funding available for that I guess okay well right I have it all done just be done with this we have to redo our ordinance to make sure that we are covered if we find a a sump pump going into our floor drain it's not supposed to be I do believe it's in ordinance already already I'm pretty sure it's pretty solid in the because we've done thisal and one that was not interior versus exterior we' done this included it's not yes yeah all right any other questions on the water meter installation lead pump Su pump inspections if not we can move on community comment from anybody uh unfinished business light pole Christmas decorations quote you guys tabled that until Tom could be here you had until when for the I have until the 29th yeah what are we talking about uh in their packet Sue had a new uh some Christmas lights the ones that I found the ones that you guys have now from my understanding about in 2003 like nonrepairable was about half the price on yeah yeah there was anywhere from 35 to 55% off so what did you say we have eight yeah probably okay to update every 20 years I would I would think myself I don't like welcome what's the what's the consensus what do you guys do I say guys I'm sorry you know I I always say guys too so it's fine yeah do we get to pick of both you can have yeah I I picked those because those are the ones I just kind of went through and kind of picked four most reasonable price ones basically yeah one of them is a little higher priced um the Garland isn't included correct but you can mix and match those too I'm one of those people that I like everything the same so well then the bracketry that goes on the pole who's going to do all that work R huh race because we'd have to figure that into the cost if you have to have somebody else come and put the bracket on the pole how many of them how many lers eight eight eight there's only there's only eight plugin on there's only eight poles that have plugins 20 yeah so that's what there is so Becker but I can go up there I mean it's get it if we get eight new lights what did you say it would be I don't know they're in there I thought you had I thought last week you had some kind of little like a rough estimate of wasn't like six grand for eight yeah roughly anywhere between 5 to seven I think or six something like that do we have to decide this tonight by the 29th by the 29th oh so you got one more week always next year or you can or we can wait and we can stay with the lovely ones we have now that half don't work and that look like there's something out of a Gra I I don't care I'm glad to see her down I don't I mean we have we have money in the budget for that you know that isn't any issue far as I'm concerned that's not an aob budget thing talking about that what kind of money do we have in our sewer fund when we get done with we go forward with this will we have to go out and bond or we going to borrow money from ourselves or would we well well the first I and I I think we were plan self fund just we're going to pay that out of this year's funds now we may have to move General funds to cover right yeah that's how we would fund it though yeah that's what that's the way I'm just kind of assuming this one for the first time because we must have hundred and some odd thousand dolls in the sewer by now we be 150 to 75 because we've we were making2 or $5,000 payments over the last quite a few years and then that got caught up four or five years ago I believe but we also that we got remember the lining we did we spent a lot of money on lining we probably don't have as much in there as I think chasing look as at the end of January take a quick just for curiosity sake Christmas fund is gonna come out of the sore fund for the Christmas light that would be streets that would come out of streets so just confused talk to you guys water how you coming on that is any movement [Music] on on PL you know6 billion dollars that they're talking about now is is that something we tried to by and see if we can fund that's coming out of the fund that going on no she's looking for um the sewer not anything to do with the light we have a light fun well light lights would come out of the streets because it's what headline for that the lights 29 no no to get that I mean so we looking like that information under that I sent that information to Joe and Jeff of the representative was probably know about that on that state um butter whatever they call it 5000 um we did a lot of lining and we paid for all that we moved it out of the General in fact but I think we have to pay that back I think it's already been paid back hasn't it been paid back okay all that money a lot of a year two oh and then between so if we can get our name on in with that state but they're all kind of different so like water last year that power we had to have inspected and then we had we were talking about going south holiday that we took because we have 4 inch water M we want to expand that we want to have another well water that's what the property was bought for is another well that one is down filtration new looking at it it's just the filter system talking about a tower too well yeah but our Tower is in good shape we we've maintained but is that gonna if the apartments get going and there's 21 units and there's the tower going to be able to handle that oh yeah will it yeah I don't think we have a problem with the fresh water that probably wouldn't take any more than the school kids that were there cuz we had how many school kids in there am I don't know there would have been quite a few little around 300 I I don't know and GS so I I'd say the water usually would really go down quite a little so we should be good there so the light pool Christmas F or Christmas decoration fun and we have funds for that and it's been 20 years so someone can make a motion to do it would you like to do I would like to make a motion to do that do we need to wait for Tom you need to decide which ones you want I don't want to do that I'll leave that up to you if you leave it up to me I will pick one and they will all be the same because like I said I like everything the same or if you want two of each there four of them there you could do two of each and you could stagger them I don't care I I want what you want everything the same whatever she wants what if I said I'm not a decorator neither am I don't you put a tree up I don't do nothing me neither I don't have to because you do it all um Amy made a motion about buying Christmas lights time we waited till you get out here to be in in on the vote to do it said made a motion to do it need somebody to second I'll second it all in favor say I I iOS motion carried all right just i g to say I was in Mapleton yesterday and their are still up really it's Christmas yeah all right anything new new business I got one race text again just to make sure we brought up about that that gravel so it's okay on Hiller Drive Paul barard requested to put some on there but right now can race just go out there with a rer bucket and carry some out there and satisfy them until we get through the spring yeah and then we kind of discussed it this afternoon when he did bring it up at first and if you put too much right away it ain't going to get packed down decent we had a big snowstorm a lot of it's going to get pushed right back into the ditch so y well we'll have him go out there and see if he can put some down and satisfy till the weather gets better later and you said what the weight restrictions might be going on think it is so then you're limited on how much you can bring anyway no we got 10 roads into town so it don't matter okay so anything else under your new business I do have something maybe remiss if I didn't talk about it's about about the old school um I know Earl's regular called me one day this week and he was just wanting to make sure he was just letting me know that he's calling he's called four the four of the County Commissioners and he's going to start calling the representatives and all that to to see if there's something that can't be done to push this along and that um I mentioned to him that we'd already even thought of the idea of maybe we'll have to take part of that school back get off the tax records you know and declare it of community center you know or something on that sort in order to make the project work but we haven't done anything about anything yet and that uh until and then that might not be enough that may not even be enough to make any difference you know I guess my point is is that that we probably should always remember as we have these projects that we're doing that that could still be a city project we could still end up with that back would you go to the state before us I could it could yeah because he actually he also he also called me too and expressed how important a project that was to the city of good Thunder and I says yeah I've said that all along you know it's too good of building to tear down we have a developer that come in and uh but at the same time what's happening is exactly why we didn't want to own it exactly because we're not we're not developers we're not real estate people well Amy is a real estate not not the commercial that the developer didn't realize how much the taxes or what the value of that building was because the value of the building hasn't changed for the last five or six years and it was inv valued though it was looked on the county site yeah it was there was value anybody developer should have a pretty good idea what the taxes might be based upon the value of that building or at least I don't know why anybody is gonna be jumping to bail him out I'm sure he was well aware yes or at least how your ta tax attorney guy yeah well guys yeah he backed out of that last week too he's already bought it but he never bought it right right he signed a purchase agreement but some of something fell yeah financing a hard with new home Mike drum Garden City School well I said the same thing to Earl that Garden City city is um Memorial uh yeah what's the word I'm looking for welcome yeah but in a trust a lot of that land and one of that portions that is in a trust so I mean again could some of this come back to the city to keep that cost down a little bit like you say it could but you know he went through this whole thing about there's 21 apartments and you spread that tax out over even if you were able to cut that cost by seven by 50% it still doesn't work out in the way he explained it you know what I mean doesn't work out that it's still he's still got the cost of 21 Apartments well that yeah and that's what they're basing I think his tax base on was well at that meaning he made the comment I'm getting charged this year for the 21 apartments that don't even exist yet yeah but they can't but like you said that that value was in charge for the value of the building on the count on the Count's RS as a tax exempt building but the value has not changed yeah it's it's been there I've seen it too that same value has been there for years see it's crept up just slightly in the last five years but it isn't no big surprise no but then at the meeting here he said well they apprais that what of the 21 and it was apprais at what $2 million this year but it's been at for the last tax so what uh what was Mapleton valued at and they tore that down I don't know I don't remember there was a value on it though there was a value on there but say if that was five or six million because it was probably twice as big they they lost that value that's gone know it's gone yeah so so turn if having a value in a building that building once he get some apartments in there it's probably going to be pardon two times that three times that the value but see you got look at this see KO to Bar buying a new pickup tomorrow and then complaining about how much gas yeah exactly it's yeah it's it's a an opportunity to maybe good Thunder have a community center you know I I think going back to buying any portion of that building back is Dangerous Ground to start trading on I don't know if you'd buy it back or he'd just gift it so you could could you set up a good Thunder trust oh you can do anything you want I think you know what I mean you can to get rid of that value you know if it's a public held building just like a school it wouldn't be taxed so if if he somehow you could work that that Jim is our community center and value that back to the city the city be responsible for that section build at all every year yep y maintenance and upkeep and all that yeah I guess my point is we just have to be a little careful you know yeah um maybe it'll all come through maybe I'm kind of glad there's people out of the city that are fighting for us oh yeah yeah and you know maybe maybe with enough pressure maybe something will happen tax-wise I I don't know I know Earl ask me directly if theity he has the the the power to forgive tax just to forgive it I I just said I don't know I don't think so sign up yeah right yeah exactly you know I just don't I said there used to be the things that there be we' be sitting another president just like I floats all boats that's we used to have a tax inent financing District many many years ago I remember that that you know 10 20 years ago whatever that was downtown and all that and that's long expired Now set up through the state and all this you know that you maybe could do something that's basically that a monster you just defer those taxes and they just do just you know but uh that's not that's not in not in our perview anymore at all it's not even in our code or nothing anymore no it's all it all gone it's all gone you saw something from came through right didn't get a chance to read it but there are some funding opportunities out there for um Workforce housing they call it yeah Apartments sort of thing I can't remember what uh it was had to apply for it that's what they were doing with this one that's that's what they're waiting doing yep that Workforce housing okay you program was it no I just saw something come on here maybe maybe it's the same it's whatever yeah whatever that program funding was but they had to I thought they had to match yeah it was a match of minimum of like two to one or something something must be the same thing like the affordable affordable housing that's different but yeah any Cas affordable and low income I think those are more on the line of Workforce the way it sounds that's part of the problem here too is those grants haven't come to fruition as quickly maybe is what anticipation was and so they're supposing out there but they haven't worked all the I just they haven't tweaked enough to know how to hand it out plus there was a deadline wasn't it coming up or March or something I think well anything else under miscellaneous business if not somebody make motion to adjourn I'll make a motion to journ come in a second I'll second in favor I car thanks everybody m