[Music] So, let's while waiting for Lee to come in, if we can do the the uh how
minutes. How did we What did you have then still for I think I didn't have anything. Uh yeah, on those minutes other than that. Yeah, I didn't have a chance to review them, Dick. I'm sure if you reviewed them, they're fine. No problem.
Okay. Then all I did actually the only change I made was to to make sure that that colle would be on a virtual meeting. Um, Colleen time sheet, which is a a 70 hour time sheet for the the two
weeks. Are you okay with that one, Bill? Yeah, that's good. That's fine. I am too, Colleen. So, that's approved. Okay. The next one is uh for payments to the treasurer
$955 for these two weeks and of that the whole 955 is for board of health perman I am I am too. Okay. Uh the next one that that we have
is a it's a CLC and it's for 195 Bachelor Street. And when I look at it, it's uh it was for a new pump
system, but I don't see any elevations whatsoever on it. Who's the designer? Dick is I think it's Neil Jackson. Let's see if I can find it. Colleen, do you know if this is uh
uh let's see. So that that means it's Bobby Sh. Okay. Okay. But but maybe it says in it that
that it's installed to the to the drawing. I'm still trying to see uh it says let's see. Oh, here it is. It says elevations of leasing facility as for approved septic system design
drawing. And so he does he's saying that the it was installed to the drawing. So I guess he is saying that he's got that. Okay. So are we okay with that one still? Yeah. Yeah. That's fine. I am
too, Colleen. So that one. Okay. Next one is uh a temporary food license for friends of the Grand Veterans and the event is May
31st at the at Dupra in the pavilion. Actually, Mike Pandora still hangs in there and and works with that with that group. Yeah,
I'm okay with this one. Bill, are you? Yeah, that's fine. Dick, what community does Mike live in these days? Do you know he lives in Northampton? Okay. Oh, okay. Okay. Yeah, somewhere in Northampton. Yeah. Oh, yeah. In fact, it
said that at Flor in Florence, Mass. Florence. Okay. Yeah. Thought it was. Yeah, that's part of Northampton. Okay. So, that one is approved also, Colleen. Okay. I that one this is a a
well permit for 31 Cold Hills Drive. Now, I believe that's Marty Merrill's old house. And that one is an approved drawing design and it's a a narrow lot
and to try to fix put everything in there. The well to the SAS is only 88 ft. So that one we did have to give a
variance. However, when I talk to the well guys though about this kind of well that's too close to to an SAS. The well guys that really know what they're doing
do separate and special pasting and steel work. They do special stuff to make sure that it can't leak through into them the lower level. Yeah. Yeah. They'll use they'll use a bentonite claybased slurry as a sealer. That's
right. Exactly. But my feeling would be we should be talking to these people. they should make an appointment to talk to us about what they're going to do about this because it it definitely doesn't say anything on the
permit that they're going to do anything special at all. And in fact, this is for Quabin Well, and I'm not sure Quabin well installs well. Not that I know of. But Dick, that's a good point. When we have a well that's
non-compliant that needs a variance, we should have the designer write a specification up for the construction of the well. That's a that's a really good idea. So So Colleen, it looks like what we're going to do is not approve this and have
the the well the applicant come in and and talk to us about what they're going to do. put this well in special with the to deal with the proximity to the subject
with something. Okay. The next one that I have is Oh, that's the that's into that your list of of things to discuss. I'm I'm trying to to go here.
Lee is here now. I'm in Lee. Hello, Lee. Good evening. So, I'm trying to to take it easy tonight. I had a tooth yanked out or roof ripped out today and my my mouth isn't good for talking.
So, so if that's the case, we ought to get back since those things are approved. We had we had looked at at items for the local upgrades to title five
inspections. We didn't finish. We had three things that we said we were going to get to to put that to sleep. Uh, and I'll tell you what they they were is one of them was two feet not
three feet to the water table. Another was 100 ft to wetland and then 100 ft to well. And we I think we closed on the well saying that if it could be we would like it to
be the 100 ft and that uh if it had to be less than 100 ft it would be for a reason but not never get less than the 50 feet. I think that's what we closed on last meeting. But maybe the the next one,
Bill, is one definitely you and you're going to look at are currently we're saying that that the septic system can't be and we said and we should define what septic system means.
Uh, I think it I think it means SAS, but but we currently say it's 100 feet to jurisdictional wet lane. Now, Bill, that's definitely in your world, you know, versus code that says 50 ft. So,
so do you do things like say the distance is dependent on the on the soil or do you do you throw it away completely and go with the the state code of of 50 feet? Here's what
I've done, Dick. I've reviewed probably 25 codes from around the country over the past couple of weeks. Okay. Every every single one of them 50 feet. every single one of them really. However, here's the here's the
problem. It's a chicken or egg problem. When you guys do a perk test, have you had a certified wetland scientist delineate the wetland prior to doing the perk tests or you just kind of winging it? when I when I do it that
because it's going to be almost always it'll be always nuisance because there's leaves going out and dealing with with repairs. So, it's me. No, no, but I I mean I mean when we do Here's the problem, Dick. Do we Is it
prudent to do the wetland delineation prior to the perk test or the wetland delineation after the perk test? Because here's here's the way this would play out. If you're going to do the wetland delineation after the perk test, keeping
the 100 foot set back makes sense because that gives you a factor of safety as to the exact call line of the delineation. However, if you're getting the wetland delineated and approved by
conservation prior to the perk test, then it's going to be essentially vetted by the commission. And then if we use a 50-ft setback, that's absolutely no problem at all because you know the line is really the line. You see what I mean?
Yeah. There usually usually if it's questionable, then I would say to the engineer before this thing gets approved, we're going to have to get the
wetland done. That That's right. and then and then come to the commission for a uh for an RDA as a minimum. That's right. Right. So So you're right. You could you could easily end
up that when I'm watching looking at a perk, I can't tell where we are. Yeah. Because you again the best way to do wetland delineation is by hydric soils dick. So that means you'd have to have a guy go in there with a hand auger and
spend a couple of hours with a hand auger when you guys are trying to run the perk test. You see it it's kind of a I' I've grappled with this for 25 years. You know one school of thought is you should do the wetland delineation before you perked
the lot. The second school of lot is school of thought is perk the lot and then do the wetland delineation afterwards. In reality, Bill, depending on what the lot is, we can you can end up spending a
ton of money doing wetlands where a lot of times the guys like an Allen White kind of knows where the wetlands are. They can he can kind of wing it. So the the way we would
typically do it now if it's if it's obvious that it's not a problem then it it's not a problem. But if if it's not then and if we're going to change this maybe maybe that's exactly what you have
to say what you're talking about Bill is the to say hey guys we just let you move a lot closer that that uh in the past if you look at the wetlands people and say ah it was 85 feet not 100 that's
different than saying ah It's now 35 ft, not 50. That 15 ft makes you. But if you're if you're the devel if you're the developer and you want to save some money, you'd be prudent to say, "Well, let's keep it 100 ft and I'll spend the money on the
wetlands if if I develop and and sell and sell the sell the property." You see? Yeah. But but if it's a tight sneakers lot and they need every square foot to get a house and a septic system and it might behoove them to go with a 50 foot
setback right off the bat, but have the wetland line vetted by the commission at that time. Yeah. See, so there's there's two ways to look at it. If they got plenty of room, I'd go with 100 feet. But if they really want to go with the 50 feet, that's fine. But again, we're
going to be a little more picky as to how that gets accomplished. That's my thought. Maybe maybe we do the same thing that we just did with the well, saying we still want to not use
that that extra 50 feet up. But if you're going to use it, if you're going to use it, then you're going to have to spend the money to make sure it's really where it is. That's right. Exactly. Exactly. That's right. That's right. And that gives them no choice. So we just
don't we just don't give it up, but we let them have it if they need it. Right. What are you thinking, Lee? No, that makes perfect sense. As I'm hearing you guys kick it back and forth. [Music]
Um, in that fashion, we're getting the best of both worlds. Most of the time, this isn't a problem. most of the time. So if if that's the case, then then we just deal with it and
say we're going to deal with it by acceptance that we're going to that we've got a policy but but we've got something to work around it. Okay. The next one, Bill, after you fed
us all this stuff about about the the sludge in the ground and the the you know, the the biomass doing all the work of the septic system and not not really getting any treatment
beyond 18 inches. Now, our our view of since it's one of the regulations, our view of saying we've got to have three-foot separation, my suggestion would be that that after reading all that stuff, poop
feet would be more appropriate. Now, did you read the Connecticut I sent three pages out, excerpts from the Connecticut Code? Did you look at those? That was crazy. that I can't believe anybody does a perk test in Connecticut
about selling clays and coming back and you can Oh, I know. But let me give you a little a little bit of historical insight. This Connecticut those Connecticut offset distances were written in the early
1980s. They're still in effect today. the Massachusetts the 95 code revision, the big title five revision was done in the early to mid 1990s. If you look at the Connecticut
numbers and the Massachusetts numbers, they're all a multiple of each other. It's really weird. For instance, the slope angle in Connecticut is a 2:1 slope. That's permitted. Massachusetts
is a 3 to one slope, right? The the Keystone to breakout distance in Connecticut is 10 feet. In mass, it's 15 feet. The critical perk rate in mass is
two minutes per inch, right? Two minutes per inch. We get the we have to have the extra foot. In Connecticut, it's one minute per inch. And of course the water table in Connecticut's been 18 in for 40 years. In mass it's 4 feet, but originally it
was 3 feet and then for one reason or another it got bumped to 4 feet. But the point is it seems to me as though whoever developed the mass code may have looked at the Connecticut code and just applied a multiplier factor. It really looks
like that, Dick, if you look at it. I'm just saying my feeling Yeah. Go ahead. My feeling is that you that there's at least not in the
Massachusetts regulation that that allowed the board to go down to a two-foot separation. and your your you know the stuff that you put out seemed to say that that two feet would
be fake. Well, that was the Yeah, that was that was Sangra that was his paper based on the lysmter tests in in 2005. That's right. That's right. I'm I'm going to go out on a limb and go a little bit more
aggressive than that. I'm going to recommend on existing systems. This is not new construction. This is not repairs. These are existing systems that have been in the ground, have well-developed biomats, been running for
a number of years. Got to remember two years ago, we're at zero. We're at zero in for a pass. I I recommend we bump that up to a full 18 inches for existing for existing leech fields.
When we do title five inspections, it's not going to affect many people, but it might save people a lot of money on an upgrade, but it's not going to affect too many. If you look at it, Bill, though, it's going to only be really old
systems. Systems that really should have been Oh, yeah. Listen, Dick. If it's an old system, they're going to be putting in a new tank at the very least. They're going to be putting in a new septic tank. Yeah. And when they put in the new septic when they put in the new septic
tank, it's going to be a two compartment tank likely with an effluent filter. So, they're going to get that benefit as well. I don't think any system is how do you how do you determine water table that you're really
feeling good at? That's you know the literature that you you handed out. Yeah. A really says that if you're a foot it's probably not going to work. 18 in it is but you're in a spot that if
you can't tell water table within a few inches. You're in a spot that you can't say that the system's working right. versus if you said, "Ah, let's add a couple more inches onto this thing." And then we're pretty sure if the if we're off a little on water table, we still
have a good system. Again, again, I think those water tables are supposed to be or would be called by a a certified soil evaluator right off the bat with
uh a vetting review by the by our board. So, Lee would be out there watching the soil evaluator. And again, 18 in in my mind is sufficient
given the fact it's been the standard in Connecticut for 45 years with apparently no ill effects. And again, it would just apply to existing systems in the community. Again, that's just that's
just my take on what I've read and researched over the past few months. Where are you? Where are you headed on this one? I'm again I'm my feeling is I I can
support the 18 inches being the number. The question is do we want to do we want to make it that tight that we're we're saying yeah 18 works but 16 doesn't and we're accurate to better than that.
Well, that's that's again any number that we pick, we're going to have a gray area that's going to be subject to interpretation. But I think 18 in 18 in is a proven number. It's a proven number that's been in practice for many, many
years. And again, like you say, Dick, if it's 16 in and you can substantiate the 16inch number in the field, sorry, that's the way it goes. Well, we got to draw we have to draw a line in the sand and 18 inches is a good
line in my opinion. Lee, from from your standpoint, you're it put you're the guy that's going to be doing that. And it means that that now now I'm at the point still if if
you're gonna if you're going to do that then I would be saying somebody a soil evaluator if if if you're going to call it at 18 in it
ought to be right near the the leeching facility and it can't be something that you said oh yeah soil evaluator looked at that 20 years ago. So now I'm comfortable with it. Well, well, again, if if the if the
system were built 20 years ago, it would have been built in accordance with the 95 code and it should have three or four or five feet of separation. So, it should be okay. These systems, Dick, that we're concerned about are the ones
built prior to 95. So having a fresh soil evaluation is a really good idea. So how could we? So are we saying theoretic in in theory that prior to 95
um the groundwater all could be quite a bit higher um prior to 95 than after 95. any the new construction for the most
part the repair uh for the title fives are people buying as you guys know they buy a house and within six years they make a couple changes maybe an upgrade on a new roof whatever and they're out of here. Um, there's not many
houses that I personally am on site that have systems that were put in in, you know, in the mid70s, mid
80s. Couple, but not many. Right. And the longer we go, the fewer there are. Correct. I could go along I could go along with something that says if the water table
separation's less than four feet then you need a new soil evaluation or if you said it's less than three feet you need a new soil evaluation at
this point then you can let it go to 18 inches. So, I could I could support the the 18 in if you if you knew that the someone looked at it recently. Well, yeah, it's it's got to be a good it's got to be a a first class soil
evaluation, Dick. You're right. I agree 100% there. Yeah, that makes sense all the way around. So, what So, let's let's do it that way. Let's say if if it's less than 4 feet
separation, it needs a it needs a a soil evaluation associated with with this title five and then it can be as little as 18 in. But but Dick, how do you determine
whether it's less than four feet? Well, they've got some other by the plans. By the plans, you could do it by the plans. You could remember Title Five gives the people Oh, we've already said
though. Oh, yeah. Cuz remember, we used to we used to We used to approve We used to approve three-foot separations very very frequently years ago. Very frequently. Not on. No, I mean on repairs.
on repairs. Yeah. On repairs. Yes. Yes. Right. Yes. But we've already Okay. We've already said that the water table's got to be done by a soil evaluator. That's part of our thing, right? So, if that's the case,
Bill, then then I can I can go along with that. I could go along with 18 inches. Okay. Lee, can you Yes. And again, what's going to happen is these folks, I'm sure these folks
aren't going to have 1500gallon tanks. So, they're going to be putting in fresh tanks, two compartment tanks, likely with a filter. Which is great. Are you interested in an outside opinion? Not at this. It's a short one because
we're getting ready to leave. Now, go ahead. Just a quick one, Al. Well, my advice would be to go the way that most towns go, which is to have a soil evaluator from, and I know this is
a touchy subject, from the board of health president to agree or deny with somebody who's on the private side representing the customer. You can do whatever you want and I understand your comfort level is better or worse as as
you um approach some situations, but that puts them in a more legal substantial situation and that's why they do it that way. Well, we're end up with that anyway, Bella. Yeah. Okay. I I fully
respect all of you coming out because I've worked with all of you. though. I'm just saying from a legal standpoint that helps the other towns when they do it that way. It does. It does. Okay. Then we Well, that's a good That's a good
point, D, because there is some um arm twisting when the soil evaluator represents the developer. Mhm. Um, of course, of course, the private the private soil evaluator is being he knows or she knows
which side of the bread it's buttered on. Of course. Of course. You you need an independent third party and that's why you bring the board of health person in as an independent third party. Absolutely. And and I say that from both sides. I've been on both sides. Right. That's
right. Okay. Okay. So Dick, do you want to make a motion on this? Yeah. Well, we're still going along on on the thing. So, Colleen, that's what we're we're saying. We've moved that one to the to to 18 and we've said that the the 100
feet we're going to try to to do, but we'll go down to the 50. And it looks like the well is the same that we said the same thing. Dick, what are you on? Are you on You're not on the local the ones you did last time. Local upgrades. Well, that was part of that's where it
was. We're dealing with with the the one that was titled local upgrades [Music] to title five inspection. Okay. Yeah. Okay. But and what number what number
was there wasn't a number that was those were to mine that we were we never got through. Okay. Well, I mean, I had from last time. I mean, I think you had started out with eight things on that one. Yeah, I'll I can go
over we can redo that the one the way I think we have it and then we can see if we can all agree with that. Oh, next time maybe that group will get done. Okay. Okay. Got it. Next. Before we go, what what are we doing for next meeting?
Are we doing the same the same thing? 645 and Well, Dick, what what further what further line items do we have to discuss? We have about six pages. Oh, boy. You know what we could do?
Let's let Pauline I'll work with Pauline. Let's get a new list. Let me go through the ones on the other pages that I know are just duplicates of title five and let's see if we can get kind of through our list next
time. Okay. Because like you say, I think at some point now that the weather's getting nice, it'd be nice to to go back to 7 o'clock at some point. Well, why don't we do this one more time? Okay. And and when is our next
meeting? So, tomorrow the 2. What is it? The 22nd. That's Tuesday. Yep. Okay. Okay. Let's go. The The only review we've got today is for 12
uh Ken Lane. It's a It's Allen to repair a complete system. It is a two-bedroom house that Allan and the owner have have chosen to do a three-bedroom design fee is paid. Review is complete. It's mainly
a cleared 4 acre lot, deep sands, a 24 inch water table. The issues are small lot, the water table, the well proximity, and there's not enough space for trenches. The design is for a new
1500galon two compartment tank with an outlet filter, a thousandgalon pump chamber with a single pump and required control of alarms and dedicated circuits. a 12 by 50 bed vented plastic
feet barriers on the east and west sides the long sides of the SAS due to the reduced breakout distance that conserve space a little bit to push back from the well as far as we can 444 gallons a day
are provided versus 440 required fill is required building outlet plumbing must be raised The reserve area is not provided. 5 foot water table separation uh is provided. Ballast is not required
for either the tank or the pump chamber. But a pump crush and fill the existing tank. The well the SAS separation is only 93 feet. So a variance is required for that. the septic tank and the SAS's
the separations of the other wells and the wetland everything is more than 100 ft other than this system this SAS and the actually also the the so
this SAS is 93 feet to its well and the well to the septic tank and pump chamber separation is about 857 ft discussed is The trench permit required, spillage required, plumbing permit is required, electrical permit is
required and I I sent out along with my review all so Colleen also sent out an electronic copy. But uh what do we I don't see that Allen could do a lot more
with this lot than he than he did. This well is a deep well. What are you, Bill and Lee? What are your thoughts? I think he's done as well as he could, Dick. Yeah. I don't see I don't see
anything that we can tweak on this at all. No, I don't either. So, we would have to grant the the well separation variance. The uh the other thing that I asked Colleen to
mention to the owner and and I guess that Allen as well is that I did talk to to Chris Martin. actually talked to Chris Martin about the emergency uh provisions, not not this, but what
Colleen had asked us at the last meeting and and Chris asked that she send them a copy of of the questions that Colleen was trying to get answered. But but Chris told me that the new permanent replacement for him will
be starting at the beginning of June. So that if there's any talk, Allan, about your client trying to get a lowinterest loan Mhm. from the town, there's probably some urgency to try to get that
thing all tied up before Chris leaves. I've heard nothing more about it other than her original interest in trying to find alternative methods for financing. Yeah, I did email know when I do speak to her next though about that. Al, have
you priced out have you priced out the system yet? Um, I can't speak to that. I think Josh Fugler may have at this point. I don't know if John's on this call, but yeah. Okay, gentlemen. I'm on this call. This is Diane Percy. Oh, hi
Diane. How are you? I'm well tonight, thank you. So, I don't know if if you heard what I I just said. Charlene was just ready to tell us that that she reached out. But but if if you are
thinking about going through the town, my my thoughts when I talked to Colleen would be that that trying to deal with Chris Martin, who's done this, at least on several occasions, is probably going to be an
easier thing to do than try to deal with someone who's brand new in the job. And and so if you're thinking about it at all, uh maybe even if you're not thinking about or haven't thought about it, it might be worth giving Chris a
call and just seeing what he has to say. Yes, I'll be glad to do that. Yeah, I I do know what he will be asking you for. He will be asking you for a price that that uh and I do have a price. I have a
price from Josh. Oh, you do? Okay. Yes, I do. I I do not want to hear it. I would I would behoove you, Diane. I I would behoove you to get two more prices. Have three prices when you approach Mr. Martin.
However, however, I think with one price, you can probably get whatever is going to go in the works. you probably can get get moving at least, you know, he has something that you'd be working
on on. He probably is going to ask you, at least what what he's told me in the past is that he asks someone if they in fact need it because it he tries to set this up with people who who need this
and who who are financially strapped. And that definition, I think, is is is loose. and and uh the other is that he would be talking about an interest rate
and he typically would ask how long would you like it to take to pay it back so that before you go in and talk to give that you know some thoughts and then in the past he's told me that that the interest rates are are typically
like 1% So, so at least you would go into to Chris knowing kind of what he's going to be asking you. I have two things to add if I could. Sure. I'd be happy to give you some
other names for other quotes. First of all, we can do that tomorrow. Um, and secondly, um, I strongly urge you to also try the Pioneer Valley Planning Commission. um they have some have had some money in the past that doesn't
necessarily even require payback depending on your plans to stay at the property and other requirements. So um who am I is that is are you speaking Alan? That is Alan speaking. Okay. All right. I just want let me just
ask you this question then. Does that does so how if I were to get two other quotes, does that mean I have to pay two more engineers? Nope. No, it's about getting quotes for the installation. So, it's just the
contractor side. Oh. Oh, I'm sorry. I Yeah, I I did misunderstand that. Yeah. And we can talk about that. All right. Why don't we do that? Thank you. Oh, that's what we have for that system.
So, so it looks like we're set with you. Um, thank you. Good night. Okay. Byebye. Thank you. Diane, good luck. Good. Good to hear you. Thank you. Yep. Good night, Diane.
Thank you. Good night. We've got We've got four title fives. Uh, one is at 86 Morgan Street, uh, by the Terretti in that pass. That one
had a a 1500gallon tank and more than 4 foot separation. Uh, 74 Aldis Street was a fail and looked like a bad tank and bad system. I I drove by that. Lee, did you
look at that system? I did. Yes. that although they said that was a a I think it a 1978 system it may be it may be older than
that. That one was Art Chase built that house and he was the principal of the high school. So that that could be late that it could be maybe 1960, but maybe maybe 78 was a
repair, but I I don't think there's much soil in that area. No, no. 70 What is it? 74 Aldridge, Dick. Yeah. If if you Oh. Oh, it's it's near
uh the newspaper man's house. No, no. If you if you come from it from that side from all go across Ammer Street. Yeah. And you're on a little flat area and then it curves
to the right. This is a house. That's the first house on your left. Oh. Right into those that ledge those outcroppings. Oh, okay. Okay. Now, when you leave, if if you do go
back there to the as you look at that house, I don't know if it's even on the property, but to the very front right up next to the road on the other side of that
driveway, there's on the neighbor's driveway, there's a bunch of sand in that little spot. And then I have no idea where the property goes to, but if you go on the left side of the house, at the base of those
outcroppings, there's about 10 ft of sand and a little little spot. Those outcroppings go straight down in the ground and tuck right up into that sand up to those those rocks or sand.
Okay. Because Yeah, you're right. Robert Weasel, the neighbor, uh, facing his house to the right. Uh, his new SAS is right off of Aldidge Street. Um, this particular piece of property, his well
is in the back left corner. Oh, okay. So, that could that could affect that pocket of sand that you referred to on the left hand side looking at the house. So, yep. when they ran out the camera, they had about 18 or 20 feet of line.
And as we walked out um on Alder Street looking back at that property, the only thing that we were looking at was was a face of ledge across the entire area. Yeah. Uh, so
it's it was on a very narrow narrow piece, but you're probably looking at 50 odd years, 60 odd years of of use. Yeah. Yeah. I'm looking at the site right now in Google Earth and he's got some lawn
behind the house and a little bit of lawn in front of the house. Yeah. But not much lawn in general on that property. I can see it's a tight fit. No, it's it is tight. Very tight fit.
So, yeah, I think N up there this coming Thursday or Friday, I believe. Okay, the next one is is uh 505 East State
Street Northern Nathan Terretti. Again, this one a conditional path. It's got a a bad septic tank apparently. That's correct. But it had it has groundwater
separation. The final one was was 539 Ammerst Road. That was Allen Wise reinspection just saying that property's been used. It's got a new it that got a new septic tank and then it reused the
500galon leash pit and it said that that it was fine. There was no water in the pit and the tank was filled. So, are we going to accept all of these? Yeah. Yeah. Everything that you uh spoke of is is exactly what I witnessed. Yeah.
Okay. And I accepted too, Colleen. That's accepted. Um before we go a lot further, maybe we can put together put together the uh Harvard
Street on Colleen, what is the one that I'm looking for that I'm talking about? Uh Pete Wilson. Oh, yeah. Lion Street is Lion Street. Yeah. L B Lions. Yeah, L B
Lion Street. Uh, that one I talked to to Neil Jackson tonight. That one apparently is not as bad as as we thought. It's a a thing that that uh Bob Silver designed and
uh Paul Cispic signed off on it. He's actual the one with the stamp. Uh it ended up that that we required that that a water table test
be done because the they regraded the property and what what Neil Neil went in I witnessed the water table. Uh the water table's fine. It's it's far down on the ground. Neil sent the drawing out, but but
Bob put a Colleen had a hard time trying to get Bob I don't know whether motivated or at least to to generate a modified drawing with Neil's data on it. And then Bob let
I guess Neil know that the engineer was in the hospital with an operation. And so we've got a mess involved with the system, but the owner is trying to install the system next
week. This week this week he's going away on vacation. is he doesn't need to move into it but and then his brother is make is also a builder working with him on him and he's going on vacation right after that. So if he misses this window
then install it then uh he loses a month or a month and a half. Uh and I was trying to find a way to get get the thing resolved that that the data be on Neil's draw that
Neil's data get on the drawing and uh and it looked like that couldn't happen. However, Neil just told me, he said, "Guys, there was a drawing that got moved, and the problem with the
drawing was that Bob dropped that the FAS deeper than his holes supported." And you guys, you guys required that two deep holes be done to verify that there was soil
there. And Neil said, "Look at I did that. That that's what you guys required. You you had already approved the design. It's just that you didn't approve it to go deep enough because there wasn't the supporting soil data." And Neil sent a a strong a note out that
I saw today. It went to I guess all of us and saying it's no problem. It can go in the way it's designed and that you guys approve. So, so after listening to what Neil said, it it sounds like we're
safe to let this guy put the system in. What's the address? Neil was I kind of It's one of the one of the one of the NRA properties. Yeah. Yeah. I think I was up there two and a half or
three years ago. Yeah. Now, this is this is one this is the the one that fell out of the 60,000 square foot well protection area. Correct. Yeah. And then we they did something.
They they changed the the Oh, no. It was It turns out from the bedrooms were okay. It's It's only when we threw in the extra size of the the leak field that it kicked them out, but they were okay. They they were safe with that.
Okay. Okay. So, was Neil out there with with a piece of equipment to verify and and really clarify this confusion or Yeah. What what happened,
Lee, is I tried to I actually got in the middle of this thing and said, you know, I couldn't we going to be doing this, but if if someone if I were in this mess, I'd like someone to try to help me. So what I what I ended up saying if
to try not to get anybody's stamp crossed and get other engineers involved. I said, "You know, if Neil can shoot grades, since I'm the one that witnessed the holes with Neil and Neil's license
to look to do the soil evaluation, if he can go and shoot the grades to say, "Here's what the bottom of the hole is that I saw," and compare it to what what the the SAS design was.
If you just say that we've seen that we've the soil evaluator seen that he's he's more than five feet below the bottom of the SAS since Neil has got the stamp that the soil evaluator he could send a thing saying I witness that it is
and that's what he did. Okay. No, that's I'm that's perfectly fine. I just get concerned when there's too many um there's too many chiefs. uh crisscrossing on a brand new site.
Yeah. And for I guess the lesson that I learned is on on any of these designers and and I guess the ones that we know that that
we're dealing with now. We deal with with Neil who designs systems and has another engineer stamp it. We've got Bob Stove who designs systems and having another engineer stamp it. We've got Bob
Sheen that designs systems and has another engineer that stamps it. that that the lesson that I learned that the pain that I went through trying to get this thing straightened out is that I guess that when an engineer stamps a
drawing, we really ought to be saying, "Hey, that's really your design. That's not somebody else's design. That's yours. It's your stamp and your design, and you better be ready to to defend it." Dick, that's why it might be prudent to actually interview or talk to
the guy that stamped the plan once in a while. Well, that's what I'm thinking, Bill. That that absolutely that we get stuff that that saying if you're if you're you've got a drawing that's coming from the board, then you ought to
be here to explain what the drawing says, not that is correct. Especially in this format where he can do it in the comfort of his of his office, living room, whatever without right driving one way
for 45 minutes to give us a five minute speech and then drive right 45 minutes home. It couldn't be any easier in this format right now. Yeah. So that's that's a lesson that sounds like we're we're all saying the
same thing. if if it's your stamp on the drawing, then you come in and def defend your system and and that that I shouldn't be, you know, when I do design reviews, I really should be doing design reviews with with those
engineers, not with somebody else. Do we have any idea when uh the original work on this thing was done? My guess my guess is that it's probably a few years old.
Dick, this is Pete Wilson. I've got the approved plan in front of me and it looks like you were out there with Allan Weiss in the spring of 20 uh 4 23, sorry, 23. Okay. Yeah.
Well, it's only a couple years. Yeah. Okay. So, it's pretty fresh. Okay. All right. Thank you. But I'm sure that Pete is here right now, but the owner I'm sure with when he we've had a few conversations.
I'm I'm Well, I'm speaking for you, Pete, but if it were me, I'd be saying, "God, I wish I would have been dealing with the engineer that was one person that was in charge of everything." No, this is true. You make an excellent point,
Dick. uh and the other board members I think are open to that because I did reach out to Paul last fall as I told you Dick and he was just indifferent like I'm not his customer but in essence the fees I've paid Bob Bob has in turned
paid something to Paul and it is Paul stamp and I did include it and I think the board's wise I mean like I said I I won't use and I and again I just found out about Neil last week when when Dick and I spoke but I would never use
another uh soils evaluator without having the license. is just too complicated and or but for the but for Dick getting involved feeling like hey I could have been in a situation like this so I'm grateful to him and the board but you know it's just a little bit of a
nightmare because you go back to the guy with the license and he's like I'm not your you're not my customer then it would put the board in a funny spot because he is he is the engineer here that we're dealing with. That's the
stamp that we approved. That's the design. It's his design that we approve. So, so we could learn from it. And it's the pain that you suffered through and I suffered through that it was just, you know, as I was going through
this and my wife is saying, why are you doing this? And it it it really does the come out to say that it's only because you know that the I think all of us on the board say boy it's only for
the grace of God that we're not going through it ourselves but to try to help when we help. We do try to help people. Yeah. No, I I see that and I've I've said that to you. Um like I said, I I'm in Pelum now. I've been on the planning
board for 15 years. Um, and I've seen a lot of boards that just are indifferent. But I, as I said, Dick, I'm grateful for you to gather it up. And I think you're on the right track because these sanitation engineers who hold the license from the Commonwealth really are
the ultimate um, folks that you guys want to deal with. These other these other guys like poor Bob and his health and everything else. Um it just you know it leaves me in a bad situation because there is no license to go back to the state and say you know complain and say
you know this is my experience with you know using so and so. Okay. So it sounds like you're set Pete you can get your stuff done. Okay. I just need to get a trench permit. That's one thing I overlooked. Colleen deal deal with
Colleen tomorrow. Give her a call. They're free. All you have to do is ask her for it. Okay, I'll do that. Okay. Okay. Have a good night. Thank you so much. Okay.
Okay. Make it easy. The next one we have is Western builders complaint of crash for Cumberland Farm. The dumpster. Colleen, you sent a you sent a note out. Uh, do we know if any
He reached out to to Cumbi. He did. He did. I don't I don't know. I haven't heard anything else. I So, um, but I could check with them if you want. But, Bill, on one of your or
whatever, one of you guys driving by at some point, could you just look and see if if that really is a mess that that's flowing around down there coming? I I can do that. I can do that. Dick the
Oh, Colleen, how did you make out with the 413 wa waste can guy? Did you call him up? Uh, well, that's not actually who the dump who put those dumpsters there.
Uh, the um Ed Oz. uh Ed Oz. They are the ones that are right next to this fellow's uh property at 8 uh West Street uh West 8 Street. And so I talked to them and they were
uh going out to make sure that the dumpsters were at least 10 feet um away from the property line, which is like the state state code or whatever. So she Yeah, I guess they kind of have
ongoing disputes with the neighbor. Yeah. So if it's 10 feet away and the wind's blowing from the west and the dumpster's open and it's got trash in it, I guess it's okay then. So she said, you know, most of what's in there is uh construction stuff from
their business. It's not tons of trash, but um you know, I did talk to them about that. So, and I haven't heard maybe it's simple enough, telling that
if they did some good housekeeping and closed the cover when they weren't dumping into it and emptied it when it was full that there'd be no problem. Yeah, she said it does get emptied uh regularly. So, Okay, thanks for following. Next one is
it looks like the chateau was got a there must be some kind of a little a little war besides the one we're looking at at the chatau. I I had seen something in the mail that Colleen sent out saying
they weren't going to be selling sheds down there. And then the next morning I drove by and the whole place was filled with sheds. I thought it was I thought it was skip shed. There's there's about 20 sheds out there right now, Dick. There's plenty of
sheds there, believe me. So that those sheds look like they're the building inspector's problem. But I did stop by and looked at at the food shed and they've got
a it it looks to me like a permanent kind like a shed, I guess, but but it's sitting on some kind of wooden supports. They're they're probably not concrete foundations, but they're piles
of of boards or something, but they're it's certainly not a food truck. And it's definitely got a hard wire. They've got a telephone pole that goes out from the building, the main chateau, and it
goes, it looks like a dedicated post. that it's got a cable that comes down the post and goes along the ground and then connects to a box, a hardwired box on the side. Um, definitely it's got menus on it. And there there and when I
saw it the first time there I think there was one picnic table in the front, but now that there are there are several of them in the back. And what do you think? What should we be doing with this this one?
Well, in general, Dick, we've invited the owners to come to the conservation meeting Wednesday night. So, we're going to interview them regarding all the sheds and their proximity to the wetland. So, now, while they're at the conservation meeting, Dick, do you want
me to ask them any particular questions regarding the the food the food shed? We should we should find out uh if or maybe you can you tell them stuff as a a board of health member when
you're at the conservation commission or do you try to keep it Well, I think I think I can I can suggest things. I don't think I can order anything, but I can suggest things as a board of health member at the conservation meeting. Well, at the minimum, I guess they would they would need a license from us, huh?
Okay. So, I'll I'll advise them to call Colleen. That's all. That's simple enough. I can do that. And Colleen, my suggestion is that that you tell them that they can't operate without a license. Yep. But I didn't see
I certainly didn't see any water and I didn't see any sewage. I didn't see uh I actually I didn't see any bug control or really anything. It was a shed that was being used. I had no idea how they're cooking.
So, so I would guess they would need a something with Lynn. They'd have to get drawings sent to us, the materials of construction, layouts, and water sources. They must need It's a thick building, so I would guess they would
need the sinks and I would get It's certainly not a food truck. Yeah, no permit, safe surf, um hand washing, etc. They could be running back and forth to shadow, but certainly um
not quite u not quite what code allows red farm. The red fire is uh we got two things from from Red Fire Farm here that uh Colleen, you've got a
letter from the neighbor. You got older. [Music] Bill, are you still on top of that? Yeah, the Red Fire Farm. I have not been out there since my last site visit, Dick. Okay. Do you want
me to go out there again and make sure that they put an enhanced uh tarp over the facility? I can do that. Yeah. If you look at Did you look at the letter that the April 1 letter that Colleen sent out? Maybe you could look at that and then
take a a swing by. Okay. I don't know what else is happening on on red fire. I I can tell you I went out at a for a perk test that they're apparently
building on on the Harold Lyman property, right? They're building a a new barn and going to rebuild a house. Yeah. You know, I I advised them to come to the Have they
approached you, Colleen, about getting a permit? Um for No, no, no. Okay. Because we conservation met with him, Dick, two months ago. I think it was early March. We met with him quite a while ago, maybe
even February. I said, 'Listen, to streamline your permitting, you should probably try to get all your permits concurrently. So, I said, 'Go to planning, you're working with conservation. Go to board of health. They're going to need a well, I'm guessing, and they're going to need a septic system because they've got a
little uh vendor facility going on there. They're going to sell food stuff. Yeah, that's what it sounded like. And then and Allan told me during the the
perk that they had an engineer and they got rid of the engineer. And then Allan went through he gave Allan gave me a call and said, you know, it looks like I'm either getting fired or I'm going to quit because they don't have enough space to put their septic system in. And
they oh they apparently what they've done is they they've put the land before laying out their property and figuring out what they wanted to do. I know that they went and maximized what they could
get from the state. That's right. That's right. And so they didn't leave enough room to do what they want to do. That's right. Now they're saying, "Well, we've got this. This is what's left. we want you guys to figure out how you're going to make this work. And so it's it's
definitely up in the air and and my understanding from the newspaper that that they got caught in and m little maneuvers that are, you know,
gutting getting rid of aid and and That's right. That's right. Yeah. Another little backstory is they hired two uh faculty members that are architects. One from Mount Holio, one from UMass. So they had these two architects doing the landscape
architecture and the building architecture and all that. I guess I guess subsequently they fired them as well and they've got Birksher Design doing the site design. They got Jeff Squire from Birkshshire Design who I've worked with. Jeff's good. So, I didn't
realize they had Al Weiss doing the septic design, but uh we're still we're still going to again the commission has to have a peer review at the very least or a thorough on-site investigation as to where the wetland is on that
property. Yeah. Okay. So, yeah, I think they cut their own throats, Dick. They either APRed the property or did 61A, but you're absolutely right. They took land, got money from the state as compensation, now they wish they had some of that land
back. Yeah. Well, what happens if you if you say, "Gee, I'm going to try to get as much money as I can." Instead of saying, "Let's do this." Like you just said, before you start, figure out what you're going to do. Instead of doing
just like M did, you know, ready, fire, aim, or whatever. That's right. But but you're right. I think he's he's he's part of that federal lawsuit against uh the Doge Boys. So again, I
don't even want to go there. Okay, we've got uh we have let's see let's see how to grabby goals for boards, committees and departments. Have we have you guys looked at that or
thought about it? So we we're on another conservation point, Dick. We've actually come up with a plan on the conservation end. I don't know if it's attainable, but it's to digitize our
files. I don't know if it will ever be done, but that's the plan. be nice to have, but again, who's going to do it? I don't know. Although part of part of the the scared
resources that program is to do that. So if I were just to look at goals that that we had
implementing the shared resources plan with the the we call it the Northampton district and I don't even know if maybe implementing isn't a good enough thing because we haven't formulated what we'd
like that to be. If I were Lee and and Bill, if I were to just say, "Hey, let's implement that." I would guess you guys after a week or so, it's would be coming back saying implement that. What do you is it
are we going to try to replace her test, replace, you know, whatever it is. It seems like the the first thing we ought to do is formulate our desires for how what we want to use it.
Yeah. Another plan would be that I would see would be to to these are loose words, you know, not fancy words to go on this document would be to to see how we're going to fit into
a new facility. Yeah. What's this what's the status of moving to the um West Street School? Is that still on or is it off or is it What's the town meeting tomorrow night? Well, that's the big meeting tomorrow
night. Okay. Yeah, they want $15 million and from from whom? Well, from the town, but but it's I again it I don't I'm concerned with going and
being the the bad guy that but it looks to me like like we haven't done the you know it's a backwards kind of thing. It's like here we've got this building and saying what can we come up with for a plan instead
of saying what is it that we need to do and does this building happen to finish it? And my my guess would be so tomorrow night they're going to vote to appro they're going to vote to appropriate a sum of money and I'm guessing it's going to be some sort of bond. So it's going
to be it's going to be over 30 years or 50 years. But $15 million and they don't have the they don't have hard they don't have designs they don't have that's my understanding they don't have any the
real spec that's how it grew from 5 million to 15 million and I believe that's for roughly half the square footage of certainly If you looked at at something that says, well, the desired
future state would be to have a building that would, let's say, a a building with a life of a 100red years that uses that's energy independent and, you know, provides the
square footage for this, this, and this. I would guess that's not starting off with a 150 year old building isn't the way you get to that goal. Dick, is the building habitable at at this point in time or is it not
habitable? I guess it's if you say are people and bears walking through there and is the rain falling down in there. I guess that isn't happening. Is there a furnace that heats it? Probably. Is there electricity in there?
Yeah. I'm I'm wondering why do we have to spend all this money on a complete upgrade? Why don't we just go in there peace meal and see how it goes and spend money incrementally? That's another way when you look at this thing instead of going through and say
let's let's do a a comparison and say you know here's the way we're going to spend money over time. What's the best way to do it? How does aid fit in there? You know, in some case maybe you get a lot of aid by doing it all at once and you get none doing it the other. But
when it's all done and if you look at at something that says, should we be doing solar panels on this thing? Should we be, you know, doing alternate all sorts of alternate energy stuff and and say, what's the payback on all of this stuff?
And I that should be a big book. Yeah. You you know what I would do? If they sell the 10 West straight West State Street building, how much can they get for that building? I don't know. They said it's if you don't if you don't
do something with it, it's going to cost I think I think Colleen sent out sent us something that was like $2.5 million to tear it down. Oh, that's West Street. No, I said 10 West State. What? The the senior center
building. Say we sell that. Say we sell that. What can we get for that building? Say we get a million for that, Dick. Say we can get a million for that. And then we save Well, the amount we save on the phone company building is minuscule, but
say we get a million or a million and a half for the uh senior center building. Take that money and whatever we can get for a million and a half, use that for upgrades of 10 West State West Street School and and see how that goes. That
way we spend no new money at all. Zero. Yeah. What are we gonna get? We'll probably get a few windows and maybe and maybe an upgraded electrical system. Well, it's happening tomorrow night. And uh and it's a it's a sizable I think it
said a $350,000 home will end up paying $500 a year more in taxes. So So what do we do with this with this thing that this objectives and Colleen? Do you know when it's due?
She said I think she just said as soon as you can. As soon as you can. Yeah. I I think this was put together by Crystal. Crystal's the one that initiated this, Dick. It's a nice thing to have. I don't know if it's is it really going to
accomplish a whole heck of a lot, but it's a nice thing to do. Well, and what it does is it says at the end of a year or two years or five years, you've done something different. You've made it that you know your board
has advanced something. It's moved forward right there. you know, things that that the board does do deal with that certainly we should be probably looking at at how
we maybe we we could think about it in before the next meeting. Colleen, you can put it on. But but the things we kind of deal with, we should be looking at at something with wells, something with
sewage, something with with uh probably health of the community. Um we we don't want to get involved with vaccinations, do we, Dick? I don't think
so. But but you could do it through if that's if that's what we came up with that maybe it's a senior program to to do that that uh you know some kind of senior outreach program through Northampton and certainly we know the
state has got as a priority and a philosophy is that we're going to do these these community areas these shared board of health areas So that should sit in there. And then
you get Bill when you you talk about records that certainly board of health records ought to be and the things that we deal with that that people care about and the tour the
the the wells the the health vaccinations that those things there there's a the reason is they've got that measles outbreak in Texas. Again, I don't know how large that's going to get, but I'm guessing RFK Jr. is not
promoting measles vaccines. So, the question is, what percentage of students in the Grandby system have their MMR vaccinations? And Lee, you probably know this that type of data. Um, I'm not privy to.
Well, the board should be privy to this, Dick. I know. I If you look at it, Bill, it's not just that. If if you really start looking at the vaccinations in general, we should know that we should be posting that kind
of thing. How many people how many seniors are or people above 50 have been vaccinated against shingles? how the the things that the communicable diseases that we could be doing something about and say, "Geez, as you said, there's a a problem.
Only half of the kids have had needles vaccines." That that would seem Colleen, if you could just kind of jot down what we just said and and next week, let's
our next meeting, let's see if we can At some point, does this board need to be looking at a health agent? If it's if it's not a health agent, we certainly have to look at at how
Northampton could be supplying something that that we just three old guys and a kind of a more than at least a middle-aged helper here
with a an assistant that that you know, with a lot of experience and a lot of skills, but but all of a sudden that's going to disappear and we're not going to be in a good spot.
Dick, that fellow that's running for the board against me, Abbott, that physician, how old is he? I don't I don't know. Do you know if in fact he is actually Did he turn in the paper? Colleen said yes. Yeah, he Yeah, I
talked I talked to Kathy. He turned in papers and the other the fellow there's another there's three people running. There's a be a three person race. Yeah. Holy mackerel. Competitive race. I may not win.
Wow. Get those signs out. Yeah. But this Abbott guy, uh, Lee, do you know how old he is? Um, I would say mid50ish. I think mid50s. Yeah. Oh my god. Nothing to worry about. They can They can hear you. Thank you,
Nancy. Oh, hi. Hi, Nancy. Thanks, Dan. Thank you, Nancy. I can't. Okay. I can't even go with your Don't you worry. You're gonna make it. Yeah. I wonder what the Colleen, do you have any ideas? Is the
reason the gravel pit is that what people are these two people are going for? Do you have any idea? No, I I I don't I don't know why. No. But you're right. One guy lives in Joe Mayu's old
house, so I'm guessing it's gravel pit related. Yeah. And I wonder where the other person comes from. I don't know. His wife ran for the planning board a few years ago, and I think she got elected, didn't she, Lee? That's my understanding. Yeah, I believe
she serves on the board still. Okay. So, she's on the at some point in time. Um um when we're not being recorded, I will uh spend a little free time. Um I have a
history with that candidate and I'll help them too. I I'll tell you I'll help you too. I'll help you. It's not a good history, but we'll we'll chat. Yeah. Be be very very careful. be be careful that when you do it, Lee,
that we we don't end up crossing over into the, you know, conflict of interest and open meeting law violations. So, so just just make sure that we don't do that.
Something to do with my uh granddaughter and my son. Yeah. Um, and those are two topics that uh I take very seriously. Oh, thanks. Okay.
So, are we are we done are we done for tonight? Um, just a quick question, please. Um, you can see the cat wants to eat. Yeah, there was two there was two problem locations in town. 12 pent Lane I think
is uh done which is great. I'm glad that Diane is moving forward. Allan's doing a good job on the system. Um my other concern is with 16 East
Street. Um, Neil spoke to Neil about the possible installation date. There is not one. Um, I reminded Neil that his operating permit is coming up due
shortly. Um, I don't remember how many months. I think we're approaching the year, maybe more that we have been waiting for something to happen. Um, I don't know if we CC see
the town attorney in case the year come the the June 1st, June 30 date comes up and nothing's been accomplished. Are we prepared to, and this is nothing personal, this is just
procedural. Are we going to ask him to turn the key in and not open the place? And if he does open it, what do we do? Uh I don't know how much rope we give business
uh to continue on um without reciprocating our good nature. My feeling is we should try not to have that happen. And that that's the the best way to do
it. Maybe the easiest way is to ask Colleen to make a phone call. Uh Colleen did that and it wasn't a pleasant phone call. Is that right, Colleen? You did not make headway. Well,
he said he'd talk to Neil and Neil could get back to the board, but he Yeah, I don't Yeah, I don't know what to do at this point. And again, it's not my battle. It's Well, it's not. It's a board battle right now. Colleen, maybe we can at
least send a a letter out. And Neil isn't the guy that makes business decisions for that business. But [Music] that tell maybe we just send a letter
out saying we want you to be, you know, dear Jim, we'd like this opportunity to remind you that your operating permit for whatever for the wine house is good only to whatever it is the
1st of June June or yeah the board granted that permit or or decided on permanent restriction. It's not a restriction, right? decided on that
date to allow you adequate time to install the septic tank portion of your required septic system. Please be advised that the board does
not intend The grant on extensive to this permit without a signed agreement. on the installation timetable for the required
system. Is that okay? Yeah, that's fine. Sure. That's good. We should send that one registered letter, Colleen. Okay. Yep. Wait now for this letter if it goes out like
that. Uh are we going to let Pauline sign it? So if Tenine sends the letter to me and said is that what you dictated and if it is we just let her sign it for us? Yes. Yes, please. Okay. Okay. Yes. So that's
what we'll do, Colleen. So we don't lose two weeks. All right. Is there anything coming up procedurally uh as far as the um the regulations
um for and you know for the next twoe meeting that [Music] um we should take a little bit of you know one topic for me, one topic for Bill, one topic for you that to or are
we just gonna go as we go? Yeah. And can we do can we break them up? Can we look at and say if if we look at those pages? Yeah.
And instead of going through it, each one of them do do all of us do each one and we get not very far or even if
or you know uh want to between meeting something around and throw out some emails and just say, you know, I'd like you to look at this, I'd like me to look at that, whatever. Uh, just to try to help out
um to go through a couple of them. I'll send them to Colleen and ask Colleen to send them out. Yeah, I know. It's a it's a big undertaking. Um, for sure. I let's see if I can get three of them
done and uh and I'll just do it for and Colleen can send them out for discussion. Yeah, that's a good idea. And then and then I'll do three of them and Yeah. And then prior to the meeting,
we'll already be uh read through it. Yeah. J got down some questions, comments, and then, you know, pushed through it. Good. Because some of them, some of them, for instance, if they're already in title five, we could just say it's already in title five. We don't
even have to discuss it. Sure. Yeah. Good point. Okay. Excellent. Very good. Good. Okay. Good night, everybody. Good night, folks. All the best. Yep.
Thank you.