[Music] Okay, it looks like we are we are up and running and uh
I've got Let's do How Even though Bill's not here, we can on minutes from a uh August 26th. I Were you okay with those, Lee?
Yes, I was. Yep. Thank you. I didn't have any changes either, Colleen. So, we'll accept it. If you can make a note that that Bill is offline right now until he gets back in, Colleen. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Okay.
The they uh I guess we we can do septic reviews that that uh I don't think we have got any that are controversial. So Lee, we could do it.
The first one is Allen Weiss is five Country View Lane. That's a repair. It's a complete system. It's a three-bedroom house. Lee, I think you were out there to witness the perk. The fee is paid. The review's complete. Correct. It's a mostly clear, gently sloping down
to the to the street to the to the front. That's to the west. It's just under an acre lot. It's lomy stand with 72 inch and 78 inch water table. There no wetlands on that side of the street. The issues were the moderate water
table. The design is for a new 1500galon two compartment tank with an outlet filter. He's got three three foot by 45 foot by 9 in effective uh depth. They're they're terrace trenches with a slope. They're not
vented. Got 450 gallons a day provided for capacity. 440 is required. Fill is required. Reserve area is not provided with the with the repair. It's got six foot uh spacing on the trenches. Five
foot water table separation. Ballast isn't required. The existing septic tank is going to be pumped, crushed, removed, then compacted. Uh he did not call out any kind of siltation control.
The septic tank and SAS separation. So the wetlands and the wells is all more than 100 ft and all I have for discussion is the trench permit and the silk. What is what are your thoughts please?
Um everything that you described is um what I had discussed with Allan. So no I don't have any surprises any changes. Um, I think from what you mentioned and what we discussed, it's just exactly the
same. Okay. So, Lee's okay with it, Colleen, and I am too. Okay. So, the issues with the trench permit in the fill. The next one was Tom Lou at 40
Taylor Street. It's not ready for discussion. I'm gonna guess, Lee, that it's just as well right now without without Bill. Oh, Bill is back. Yeah. Yeah, I'm back. My camera's not working, so I apologize.
Okay. Uh, it does I have a uh uh I'm in conflict of interest on that address. Yeah, it's right at next to your driveway, right? Adjoining property. the whole Yeah.
just just like Bill to to hear right now. Uh I did copy you guys in on the things that I sent to just so you know it be what was being discussed. Who's the designer? Is it was it Thomas
Leu? Yeah. Okay. And uh because you know I went over a few days ago. I looked at the situation. Yeah. I got I got uh
when I in fact Colleen called me and said that she had heard that there was a there was work going over on over there. And actually I I had driven by it and seen it as well. I said, "Death, there's
something happening on this little house." And I went over and I forget the installer's name. It's it's his first job. They were they had already done the script. They had uh he was hauling fan for Bill. I
said, "What are you doing?" And he says, "I'm building a septic system." I said, "Well, you don't have a design." He says, "Sure, I have a design." And the owner gave me the design and he said before I started to bring fill in, the engineer just was over here, he looked
at the strip and he said, "You're all set. Start bringing the fill in and putting the system in." Okay. Now, I stopped the guy and said, "You don't have a design. There's none approved. There's not even been submitted." And he said, 'Well,
actually, he said, 'I'm glad I had a big down payment because someone's going to be eating this work that I've done. And and uh what I did get back on on my comments to to Tom Lou is what I just
said to to to you, not Lee, because I Lee's abstain, but uh and Tom Lou has written down. He says, "I've never been out there since I was there with you." He said, "In a year, I haven't been out there." He said, "Someone someone else
must have told him to do the s put the system in." So, I I don't know. I don't know how you're we're going to go through and do the any kind of investigation, but but the of serious
interest though is when I was there for the the title five and the and the perk, I told Tom Lou, he has a a GIS map and I said, you know, that map doesn't mean
didy. I said, "You have to you have to have someone to look at the wetlands. Have to have a licensed person here." I said, "It's obvious. We're standing in the wetlands right now and you the drawing shows it as another 50 or 100
feet for from now from here." And so he submitted the design and and uh he also the other one that's significant and he he took acceptance to it is I said you
know you the tank and the the tank and the pump chamber are underwater. They're submerged. It's not just that the the inlet and the outlet are below the water or you know less than the 12 in that's required
above the water table. I said the tanks are underwater and you have to have somebody that's skilled in designing things that are submerged. I said and he says oh no he says all you guys do is have to give a variance and you can put it underwater.
Who said this? Yeah that's Tom Lou. He says it's it's just a straight variance. He says you put a little hydraulic cement on it and you can put it right underwater. Dick, how old is this guy? I I would guess when I saw him, I would
guess that he's older than 60 and younger than 75. Okay. Yeah, because he does he does work in town, but like once every 10 years.
Yeah. And and he told me how skilled he was and and but boy, it was it and he just like he when he looked at he says, "Oh, it's all it's lomy sand." I said, "What?" He didn't say it was lomy sand when he was
there. We looked at it and what I said is this is this is medium and coarse sand. And and he says, "Did a perk?" I said, "You're doing a perk. The water table here is at 18 inches. You're in the water." And he says, and he says, "Oh,
it it's slower than 2 minutes an inch." I said, "It's because you're pouring water into water." And and I said, "This is 2 minutes oil." And he So he designed it. They said, "Oh, well, designed it for 2.7 minutes an inch."
So anyway, that's we are not going to discuss it tonight that it's just not ready to go. So, but I said, "You're going to get a you need to have a wetlands guy there to walk it and and say what it is." Because
one of the things that happened if he's closer than 50 feet, which I'm sure he's closer than 50 feet to the wetland, you can't be also asking for a a water table separation reduction also, right?
So, so uh we'll see. The other is that that it's only designed for 220 gallons a day. We got somebody who's whose computer's making that noise. Oh, you know what? I think that's Lee.
I got a feeling he's he's in his car. So, that's a Allan, we've discussed yours. We approved it subject to trench permit and the fill restrictions, but we're all set. You're you're done. Wonderful.
Have a great night. Thank you very much. Okay. And uh happy new year. Take care. Okay. The next one I have is is from Neil Jackson. It's 99 North Street. It's the Gibbs
property. We've we've it's a little property. It's up on a a hill on the on the corner of North Street right as you come off of the center of town going going to the the norththeast,
but uh it is a tight area. We've got an approved system and it requires a new well. They're going to abandon the existing well. But the spot that Neil chose for the well was it was good spot
for the choice of the well, but apparently not a very great spot for trying to get in there and put it in. And so that Neil on this one is just as to relocate the the proposed well
towards the front of the property and and towards the center of town right on the lot line. Um the that's the really the only thing that's different on the design. Everything else the separates the 100 ft separate everything is set.
The the only thing that I wanted to discuss is because he's at 10 ft from the property line. He he really needs to know where that property line is and and have it a surveyor verify that the well
is in on the property. But Neil, when I talked to Neil about it, in fact, Neil told me about it. He says, you know, I'm so close. I've got a I'll be requiring that that a surveyor locate that. So, it's
I didn't have any other issues. I looked at it. It it nothing was was different other than the location of the well being changed. Are we okay with that? Yeah, I don't think there's any uh there's no option, I don't believe, on this thing.
No, it really isn't. It's got a little bitty spot. It goes is in fact we moved on Neil's original design. I questioned whether, you know, we had enough holes dug and that the rock the rock actually
on that the south side going towards the center of town. I said, "You know, I know it comes up there." And if you go to the west, right in back of this house, you got the rock comes right up and and uh when we went back in, sure enough, the rock was there and and he'll
slid the system a little bit to the north to get it in there. And and uh you're right, we don't have any choice. And and the well's going to be 100 feet. It's it's the right thing to do.
Okay, Bill, are you set with that, too? Yeah, that's fine. No problem. Everything's The next one, actually, there's two of them we'll we'll do. They're both Neils. Uh, one is lot seven, Cold Hill, and the other is lot six on on Cold Hill. U lot
seven, we actually Neil had submitted. There was a that one ended up with an an 8- foot wall on the edge of the SAS and when I said to Neil that you know what's there and he said actually I
didn't know that wall was there and he so we rearranged it. He said, "You know that he's got control. Neil has control of of lot this one, lot seven, which is right next to the nice house that's
right up at the at the top of of Cold Hill at that end of Coleville. And then the lot lot six is going toward the I'll call it north." And he's got control of both of those. and he said, you know, by
making use of that second lot, he can get rid of the the wall. And so we did that. And uh so the review is complete. It's a it's a three-bedroom new construction house.
It's it's cleared and both. It's very steep and I spelled down wrong, but it's down to the to the rear to the east. Really steep down. In fact, all these three lots in
there are steep. It's a three acre lot, dense till 30in water table. Wetlands are to the rear that he's away from them, but they're down at the bottom of that that hill. The issue is the steep down slope, the wetland, the high water
table, and the really dense soil. His design is for 1500 gallon, two compartment tank with an outlet filter. It's got 53 foot by 90 foot by 1.8 foot effective sidewall terrace trenches.
They're vented. It's got 445 gallons a day capacity provided versus 440 required. Fill is required. The reserve area is provided between and adjacent to the trenches at 4 feet of water table
separation. Ballast is not required for the septic tank. Fill however runs onto the next lot to the north. Filtation control is specified. The septic tank and SAS separation to
the wells and wetlands all more than 100 ft. What I have for discussion is the trench permit, the fill. Uh I gota Neil's plan doesn't call it out yet, but the the temporary benchmark is a nail in
a tree. And I I've required that the plan be modified to say how he's going to protect that benchmark or give it a a an alter a second one, an alternate one, but just to make sure that nail doesn't
move. And also that there's an easement that's required that needs to be filled before we are filed before we approve this for the placement of that fill on lot six and that and when we do when we
get to lot seven I mean six I'll be saying the same thing that we do need that easement needs to be on record to to allow this thing to to move forward but that That's my review of it. What are Bill and Lee, what are your thoughts
on this one? Dick, there was a retaining wall originally spec. Is that out of the picture now? It's out of the picture. What he's done is he's taken that those lines, those level lines, and continued. He's put a
lot more fill and he runs them right over onto the next lot. So he's not dealing with the slope coming off the breakout. Wow. Cuz you know that the slope of that hill it's pretty darn close to I bet it's
steep as four. I bet it's four to one. Yeah, but we need the fill on lot six for the septic. I know that. Neil, the thing the thing is your comeback Phil, you're going to use a phenomenal amount of fill in that property.
It's enormous amount of fill. And by the way, you you got approved at conservation last meeting, of course. Yes. So that's that's not a problem. But boy oh boy, that is one t that is one tough backyard. You know, I thought my backyard and and and Dave's backyard is
tough. This this backyard is unbelievable. Wow. Well, it got it actually compounded, Bill. If you look at it, it kind of is a a little estate that you know it comes around
towards that lot six and kind then it comes back out again and and it but it is if you look even though it's terrace that you know at least by terracing it he can he can follow the slope instead of just you know getting higher and
higher and higher. At least he moves up from the shallow water table, but at least he he follows that going downhill. But he because he has without it, I I don't think if he if he went with a a level system, I don't think you'd ever made it to make it to
to he'd never make it back on the property without a retaining wall. Yeah. The the terrace system is a way to go on that. That's right. Exactly. So, are we are we set with this one? Yeah, that's fine. Okay. I think we may Lee, are you still
with us? Oh, yeah. Okay. Yeah. My last stop. I'll be right right back in the program here. Okay. The next one is also Neil's. It's on the lot to the north of that. It's
lot six. It's new construction, complete system, three-bedroom house. The review is complete. Although I've got a bunch of little things that Neil's got to do on this one. Uh the issue is again it's
some some cleared some treed steep down the I spelled this a different way that it's not it's down to the east. It's also just under three acre dense till 24 inch water table on this one. Wetlands
to the rear. the same thing. The issues are the the steep float, the wetlands, the high water table, the dense soil. This one also gets as an another problem is that septic on this is up front and
the well is down at the bottom of the hill. So, the well is downgradient from the septic system on this one. The design is for a 1500gallon two compartment tank with outlet filter. Got
a,00gallon pump chamber and pump. Uh six uh 3 footx 45t by 1.1 effective sidewall trenches. They're vented 463 gallons a day. Air capacity is
provided. 440 is required. fill is required. The reserve area on this one is also between and adjacent to the trenches and a 4 foot water table separation. I didn't see any B one of my questions. Uh I didn't see the ballast
calculations, but uh we're well we're both tanks are sitting above existing grade so there is no ballast required. Okay. So then they're not required, right?
Uh still on this one also runs on to the next lot. Exit to the north. When I cut and tape that it's to the south, not to the north. They've got on this one there is a concrete block. So it's actually a 4 foot concrete block wall with with 40
mil polyethylene carrier on the north and half of the east sides of the SAS. filtration uh control is specified, the septic tank, the pump chamber and the SAS separation for the other wells
and wetlands and and pump all of I'm just looking they're more than 100 ft. However, this septic tank and pump chamber separation to this
well is is more than 90 ft, but it's not 100. So, it it's I looked at it. It's to move it up the hill further to try to get that extra six, seven or eight feet to
get it to 100 is a is a big deal. and it starts to move the the tank into the ground and it's a big deal. So, this is one that we definitely should be saying it's okay not to be the 100 ft. The issues here, the trench
permit required, fill is required. I also want this is a a nail in a tree for the temporary benchmark needs to be secured. I've got that the ballast calculations are needed, but Neil has just said
they're not. The there I couldn't find the note that requires the dedicated separate circuit for the Okay, alarm. I couldn't find that. Um, I think we we should be requiring the the
special seal on the well casing at the bedrock that they got to on on areas where you could get leakage into the into the hole. Um, so we I think we should put that on. The
easement is needed for the fill placement on lot seven. Uh there are there's a typo. If you look at at the crosssection of the print elevation,
print six, I think, has got a messed up elevations on it. Yes, I'll take care of that. And I couldn't find any place on the drawing the pump chamber emergency storage calculation. I couldn't.
Okay. Yeah, those notes obviously didn't Yeah, we I'll get I'll get those um pump notes on the drawing. So, Lee and Bill, what are your thoughts on on this one?
Yeah, I got nothing on this. No, Dick, you did a thorough job. I haven't looked at it, but I trust your judgment on this, Dick. Okay. So, they kneel. I could not find the one on Kendall Street that you told me that we were supposed to
Yeah. No, because she's decided to remove the ADU. So, so I have to remove the ADU and design it for just one dwelling, not two. So, yeah, I have to redesign that one. That'll be that'll be ready for the next meeting.
Okay, Colleen, maybe you could put for the next meeting uh I I'm starting to bump up against the our requirements that on rental units
and ADUs that that we have backup electric or or basically what what I think we have, but I don't think we've got it hard and written down is all the the rental units and ADUs are
supposed to have enough electricity and fuel and automatic stuff to give to give water, sewage, and heat for a week. But I don't see that it is written down hard and and we can I can see it
that that the red fire is in our talk when they we talked to them the last time we said gee that house is requiring that and they they've come back on their comments saying nothing in title five
says anything about the septic system requiring it just giving one day storage even though in our in our minutes and actually in their summary of the minutes it says that the board required that. So
the other is that that uh I'd like it if we could discuss and it's probably big enough that it needs to be posted is whether we should be requiring a permit for all
uh rental units. Josh Bugler today told me that South Hadley does have that. They actually charge a yearly fee for all rental units. They they happen to inspect every year. But but to have
something in place that says if you're going to rent, we want to know about it. And it has to be some teeth that that take away your right to rent if you're not a good landlord. But but uh tonight I don't see it seems
to me like that this is a big enough issue that we can't just say hey it we're going to discuss it tonight and come to some conclusion without posting that we're going to do this. Okay. So
so that's so if we if we can now go I'm just looking at at our agenda. It is 7:30. Lynn, we know isn't here. We've done Neil Jackson. We've done Alan Weiss.
7:35 is Chris Chamberlain. Maybe maybe we do that. We won't do our our items yet. So, I don't see is Chris is Chris here? I Oh, he is here. I think so. Yeah. I just just for a couple minutes
now. So, hi Chris. So, hello. I I reviewed your what you did, Chris. It looks like you answered the issues that I had. Um, except that we're back
what we were just talking about the the power. I know you said title five says that you need either auxiliary power or you need the today's capacity, but as we
mentioned or I mentioned in our my notes that the house is the thing that kind of trips you up that that that we're requiring that that rental units and the ADUs and all rental units and we're going to have to talk about how we
go back to the the older ones and that'll be the subject of our at our next meeting. But right now for new ones, we're saying that that you just if you're going to be renting, you have to be able these people have to have water,
heat, and sewage. We don't say light, but water, heat, and sewage for a week. Understood. and and I want to I want to separate out between what I agree is a good idea um um versus what what the
regulations are and and also being of course caught between the board and a client who are pushing me in different directions as I'm sure some of you can appreciate. Um and I think there's yeah I mean there's there's a couple of things here is you know we had just asked you know primarily wanted to see
the the text so that we could make sure that we were compliant with with whatever particular rule that we're talking about. Um but you know there's the separate issue is also that they're not planning to renovate that house anytime soon um and and would potentially use it as office space. So
if it were a COO for a rental unit, you know, if that couldn't be issued until they had the permanent backup power. Yeah, I could certainly see that. I mean, they're they're trying to get this facility off the ground. And and I'll tell you, you know, Paul Paul Voylan's
been pretty clear. They do have um a procedure plan for if the power is out, which is going to include um getting things up and running and the critical systems um you know, to keep their food fresh, to keep the plants from freezing
and that sort of thing. Um but, you know, we're we're also trying to get um trying to get this system um you know, approved and and built. um you know there's their their system they have a facility just up the road on Carver
Street that has a built-in generator with automatic switching but they built that with grant funding um and so there you know that's really the hangup here. So, if it is on the rental, um, you know, my my thought would be, you know,
is is there a condition that it's just not a rental until they have the permanent switchover if that's the the the key issue there. Um, and like I said, you know, was was going through purely as the septic system um for the
the market building. Um, did not see anything that that required the the full backup power. So, that's sort of where we are. I hope you appreciate that I'm not trying to be difficult on this. Um, but in fact, I'm going to help you out with a it's not the board speaking, but as as
you're I'm really listening to you and saying there's a really neat thing that we could do that keeps everybody really straight and honest is just say for now the house isn't part of this project.
And then do you say wait because because you're asking for the house to have three bedrooms and you're and and uh you're not saying build an office building and we say you know what if you if you leave
the leave the capacity in the SAS you leave everything that you have and since he says gee we're not going to do that we're not going to do the Anyways, right now then we say get get
something in writing from us saying that that this is part of the SAS design on the on the you know and the the whole system part the pump part all of that and say
let's identify that it's it's there the capacity is there on the design so that the D doesn't say hey what you've done is you just increased the capacity when this house comes along and you're not going to be allowed to do it to say, "No, we're going to do that. We're going
to design it, but we're not going to work on the house now. We won't we won't uh have anybody there. We won't do anything." And therefore, that doesn't trigger our the board of health requirement rental unit. And and since
they've said that's what they plan to do anyways, not do it, it says it doesn't hurt anybody. It's that it's the out I think that you guys are maybe everybody is looking for. So, let me let me just pause because Rey is on here and I know she's a little
more in touch with some of the ins and outs and let's see what she thinks about that. But I mean I I think as as the as far as the current status I don't think that causes an issue for anybody on our side. Yeah. No, I I think that would be exactly aligned with you know their
intentions. So like you say, we we've simply designed it to be big enough that it can support that, but it's not right now. Right. Right. And so we'd have to be really careful that we say that the capacity is
there and then you get a commitment from this board that says we're going to allow that to, you know, with our conditions to happen later if it's desired. But that way that way if this
board changes you you have this thing, you know, a later board could say we certainly see what the Supreme Court does on decisions that they make and decide not to accept. But uh hopefully our boards act in a more reasonable way.
Uh but uh so if we could do that, it sounds like that would get everybody out of the it's not telling the red fire that they have to do something other than they want they want to do. So give them butt. Go back to your I
don't Lee and Bill, what are your thoughts? Do you think that's a reasonable approach? So, so Dick, just to paraphrase, then you're not requiring the supplemental power until the time in which a
commitment to formally rent out the house occurs. Is that correct? For get the building permit to to put a put a livable house in place. Okay. So, it wouldn't be that you actually rent it. It would be once you construct
the a facility that that's designed to be a habitable facility, then that triggers the the our regulation because our our regulation right now doesn't say that, you know, if you look at if you
look at the building of business, if they don't have power, they don't operate. And if there if their stuff goes bad, it goes bad. That's that there's choice. It's not that you're taking someone's money to live someplace and say, "Oh, by the way, we took your money. We put you there and and you're
going to freeze to death and you can't flush your toilet or drink your water." And they say, "That's a different story." But if you just choose not to open, that's your choice. Now, Dick, and so could I just suggest Hold on, hold on one second, folks. We have Mr. Quinnland here. Let's utilize Tom's expertise. Tom, what what is your
interpretation of the status of the house now in terms of habitability? At what step are they right now in your opinion? I have not been in it. I'm I'll be honest. I'm not sure. But as far as I know, it's vacant. So that uh you know
wouldn't be a problem. Okay. Let me ask architect uh Ray Man. Ray, what's your opinion of that as well? Yeah, I mean right now it's a you know der derelict. It's a it's sound but it's
a derelict shell. So uh or or a you know it's not certainly not habitable. So they don't have they couldn't afford to fix it probably for a number of years. Pardon? The business the operating market business is likely to be up and running
well before the house is habitable. Is that a fair statement to make? Yes, absolutely. Okay. Okay, Dick. I think what it makes a lot of sense. So we'll put we'll permit it with a condition. That's all. It's pretty simple. Lee, how did how do you think about that?
No, I agree. Uh I think it's a it's a good idea that you had to talk this thing through and keep the project moving and when the house becomes rental property, then the permanent electrical generator will be in fact installed as
per the earlier uh conditions as I understand it. Yeah. My my gut feeling is that the owners are going to be way more concerned with protecting their food and
not taking a big hit by by losing power. So my my gut feeling is what what we do by making this change is that we allow them to get their act together to say this is the way we want to handle that.
And once they get the building handled, they're going to already have that. They're going to say, "Oh, we're all set. We just tie it in and we're off to the races here." And and and we've got it. By doing it the way we're we're
doing by putting it together right now, it forces them to do something that they're not ready to do yet. And if we do it the other way, it allows them to engineer what they want to do and make sense with their business. And I don't
know what they're able to do for for grants or anything, but but it allows them to pursue all of that without getting this all tangled up and and and if that's what their desire was anyways, that they don't want to spend the money,
then let's give them the flexibility to to do that. I think that's exactly right. I mean, the reality is I think it's very likely there's a permanent generator there two years from now. It's just not going to be there, you know, in in two months. Yeah.
Um, and if if I could if I could make a suggestion slrequest on the language of that condition, if it can refer specifically to what the requirement is, if it's rental, you know, when when it becomes a rental property as opposed to
the habitability, which just just I want to tie it to the actual requirement because, you know, the plans for the building may change. uh you know they they could plan for a different use that has a lower flow rate than the three-bedroom house. Um and I wouldn't
want that to get hung up by some future board in you know interpreting what what was in the condition. What I would suggest is that you guys make it up in your application and put it right. I I do what what you
just talked about Chris is to say what we really done here is we've put in this many gallons a day that would come from that building and how you reach the it's just capacity that's there
and that that so you built in a separate potential stream and if they'd say you know what you're right we we wanted to take that maybe they change the footprint. Maybe they do something to say, you know, we actually want to turn this into 10,000 square feet of office
area instead, but it's got the same capacity so we don't we don't end up locking it into a house when they maybe don't want to do the house. That that's how I that's how I would do it. and and to give everybody the most flexibility
that that they they can have. That that sounds great. And for anybody who listens to this recording in the future, they're not proposing 10,000 square feet of office space. I I I know what you mean. I know what you mean.
So, so I but that way it and and we would end up I think making it so so everybody knows it. Mhm. And uh and and maybe in your you could even write down for our future use
or whatever it is that if we do it right then then the state can't come in and say hey that's not what was there or you know they can be nasty when they they do things like like saying oh we changed the flow requirements but that's not and
you've ended up getting extra bedrooms here if you use the new rule. rules, but you use the old rules. So, we're locking you in to the old number of bedrooms, not the old volume. And so, what we do here is is lock in the the extra volume
that's available and and use it. Great. Uh, that I think that definitely works for us. So, good. So, everybody's all set with that, I think. So, yeah.
Okay. Thank you for listening. Thank you. Thank you folks. Have a good night. That update ASAP. Yes. Okay. Thanks. And thank you Chris. Yep. Thank you everybody. Thanks. Byebye.
So the next we have is Jim Crompkkey. And I don't see I don't see Jim but maybe Neil are you here for Jim? No. No, I I'm What? What? Why is Jim at the meeting?
He's Jim's here. Oh, he is. Jim's here. How are you, Jim? I'm out. Hi, everyone. I'd run to Hi, everybody. Hey, Jim. The reason we asked you to come is after
you and I talked on on site must be a month ago or so after the state had talked to me and and I couldn't give an answer as I I told you at the time and then you gave me the answer that I needed to have is
that what happens to the any waste that came from the actual wine the commercial wine production area. And I'm paraphrasing what I think you told me is that you said, you know, there's not really much waste anyways, that we
don't make money by throwing wine down the drain. That you make money by selling wine. And you said the the solids end up getting split and one goes the composting and then the the beer
solids end up going as as cattle food. as it said. So that that's not a waste that that's going out and that that you ended up when you took the operation over, you took what what Dick Powolski
was doing with his kennel and what he was putting in for probably a significant amount more liquid waste than than you put. And you're just using the same thing. the drains were there and the floor and the pipes were there and the the dry well was there and you
just went at it. But you didn't you didn't use much in the the way of liquid and you did point out you said terms of sanitary waste. You said there is no sanitary waste that the people that work
there and and at the time you said there are a very few people working there in fact most of them are family members and they use the toilets out front and and at that point I believe I said you know
it's we're going to have to deal with that because the the the dry well is that once we knew about the water table now for sure the dry wells in the water and and that that stream isn't being
handled properly and we're going to have to deal with it. So I think that's what I said and we what we said at the time and and the reason that we're here asking you here is to see if what kind
of path we have to put you on to to get that tied into a a system. Am I am I reasonably if am I reasonably close in summarizing what we said at that at that
meeting that we were at that I was at with you. Yes. Yes. That's that's pretty accurate. So subsequently um D did come out and um inspect and I walked them through the whole
process. um the the um what you call sanitary waste, they were fine with it was going into a a tight tank and being pumped pumped out. Um
they were they they didn't have any concerns, but they asked what we were doing in the production area. So I uh explained to him explain to them that the um the wine operation the the grapes
the skins the the the the leftovers if you will were being uh transported to a distillery. the only the only uh product that was being composted or or put in the fields and
and and turned in were the stems and they were fine with that. The the brewery operation, the only thing that was left from or if you will, the byproduct from
that was going to a local um a local farm that was they were feeding I I don't want to mention any names because I'm not I'm not uh not not not publicly anyway. Um they were using it
to feed their cattle. So there so basically there was no byproduct that they were concerned with. They were they were fine. When I when I when I was uh done um giving them the tour and and explaining
the operation to them, I asked if there was going to be a a written report and they looked at me and said no. They were fine with everything that was going on on the premise. That's great, Jim. 100% reuse. Congratulations. Very, very good. Yeah.
Exactly. Well, there's certainly a way to deal with there's a deal way to deal with that, Jim. And it and it's the to say, "Okay, I'm so that that such a perfectly,
you know, sealed system that we're going to go and we're going to plug all the drains in the floor." And and you could say that. You could say that, but I'm gonna guess that
that you'd instead say, "You know what? Isn't there a way that we could put a little a little sump there in there, a sealed sump with a a pump, and could you just let us run a 2-in line up to the the new tank that we just put in and let let
that thing just go over there and take care of that, and we're done with it?" That's what I'm guess. They weren't they weren't concerned about that. Um there's everything we're doing is or organic. There's there's
every everything that all the solids get get taken away as I explained and then the the liquids all every drop of it goes into goes into
the the the uh the barrels and the and is produced uh with the with the wine. So there there there isn't anything other than a than maybe a rinse which is which would be I don't know no different than anything else in the in
the farming community. It ends up then that you can in fact if you don't have any liquid waste, if you have liquid waste, you can't just throw it in in the ground and just say it's an industrial. But if you say, you know,
we've really got this closed up. We've got the way we're handling and you could you could say, you know what we're going to do is we're going to take that waste and we're going to put a 55gallon drum
in the ground there. It only a sealed thing and it it it would fill up every three weeks and what we're going to do is we're just going to pump it out into a 55gallon drum and take it away to where wherever you take it and say
that's how we're going to handle it. There is no outlet from our building into the ground. That's, you know, that would be something that you said that. Well, that's Dick. Dick, that's a true statement because like like with the beer process,
excuse me. When we rinse out the when we rinse out the the kettle and all that, it all goes into the same the same barrel that gets hauled hauled away and fed to the cattle. So, you could you could absolutely do
that. You know, I worked in a couple operations, chemical operations that they actually did that that the they had floor troughs and the floor troughs went to to one sump and there was a pump in the sump that they turned on to when it
they got stuff in it and they they pumped it out and dealt with it. It wasn't there wasn't a discharge. And you could you could easily say, you know, that's the way we want to do it. We're not going to It could even be a a manual discharge that you say, you know, I've just got a little sump pump that's
sitting in this 55gallon drum that's that has no discharge to the world except through this pump that goes into a barrel and we haul it away. And then then the board of health is in a spot that says, "You don't have a discharge. We don't need to we don't need to be
after you." But as long as you're not saying, "Oh, I got a pipe that goes out and it goes in the ground." Then we have to be after you. Well, according to D, they were fine with the the whole operation and that everything 99% of everything gets removed from the
premise. So I I um we can't we can't we don't know which group of the DP that you're looking at what they were looking for but but I know
that I'm not going to say that you got a processed waste that goes into the ground and it's okay. That's not going to No. No. No. Because we we don't have that. We don't we don't do any of that. the the all the byproduct from the from the from
the from the beer operation and the the the uh the wine operation all of it gets removed. That's great. So that you should be able to
you should be able to answer the board the three members here. Jim, I got a question for you to to say that that just one more second. One more sentence, Bill, and you can have it. But you should be able to say to us,
absolutely. There's nothing that's going into the grounds. I'm tell you, Dick, there's nothing in board. There's nothing going in the grounds. And I'm going to take that pipe that I have going out there, and I'm going to put it into it, just a drum in case something
goes there, and I'll just pump it out as as needed into a drum, but it's not going to go into the ground. and you say, "That's exactly what you just said." And the only reason I would look and say you wouldn't say that is if that's not
true. Well, it's I'm not saying you're lying. I'm not saying that. I'm just saying that that it that that you would say, gee, we're getting squeezed a little bit because sometimes maybe that stuff would like would have to go into the grounds
and and there's there's nothing going into the ground that wouldn't fall off the the the vines that didn't get picked. It's just it's nothing. Was it D solid waste or is it wastewater
or another group that came out? There was two there was two individuals that came out. I I can't recall. Um You didn't get their business cards? I did, but I don't have I don't have them with me. They they they just cuz Dick I'm thinking it might have been
Wastewater or Solid Waste. It it could be the guy the guy I talked to and I can't remember his name, but he's the same man that I talked to about the stewards at the end of Ken Lane. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I know. Yeah. Yeah. He's
the He's a new hireer. Jim, was it two guys or was it a female or male that came out? It was a It was It was a female and a male that came out. Okay. Was the first woman's name Diedra? I'm sorry. I didn't hear I didn't hear
you. Was it Dedra that came out? Um, that sounds familiar. Okay. Yeah, cuz she's I think she's the section chief of section chief of wastewater now. Yeah, she's section chief wastewater.
They walked away scratching. They both walked away scratching their head. not knowing why they were even there. Okay. All right. Well, the bottom line is so you had the head pe you had the top people there. So you should clearly not have a problem from them going forward. So that's great.
But in our case, we have a responsibility that says we can't let it those discharges occur. However, we could at our next meeting I it
shouldn't be on us right now. It should be on Jim that says to these guys you guys were here and you said that that this is okay and I've
gone to the board of health and said I can continue throwing this stuff into the ground and if it happens if it happens that liquid gets there it's okay to just put it in the ground that so one would be to
have Jim him and his engineers say, "We're not going to be treating anything because you guys said it was okay." It's another that that we could we could take it and say, "Gee, we've gone to Jim
and said, Jim, we don't want you to be doing this." and say the owner told us that you guys from the state looked at it and said it was okay for those waste to go in and that the board of health shouldn't be
saying that they shouldn't be doing that. We can we can say that to them. And so we could actually be Jim's advocate and say, you know, we we approached the owner and
this is the the you guys were out there and this is what the owner said that you guys said because the the fair thing would have been for Jim to have a report instead of
telling us this is what they said. They could be big people and say, "We came out here. We did a review and an inspection. We went through this. This is what we saw, and this is what we said." And then we'd all have that
report. Yeah. So, Jim So, Jim, they didn't offer you a follow-up email or report or anything? No, because I No, I asked them about that. I said, "Is there going to be a report on this because I'd like a copy of it." Yeah. And they said this doesn't this
doesn't require any type of reporting. Yeah. Even statement there's no discharging report. See, you would that's what I said, but they said there wouldn't be. Yeah. See, they shouldn't they should have memorialized the fact that it's a it was a non-issue. It'd be
simple enough for them to do that. Well, yeah. My suggestion um evaluation. I would hope they could do something because it could be critical going forward. It is going to be what's going to happen is is
Jim is going to get in continued issues with neighbors or whatever that says, okay, since it's since the state asked me, since we've said it, since we've talked about it right here, it's public record and someone is going to
say, "Hey, how come you guys are letting this happen? Is it okay for me to have in my house I have a washing machine. Is it okay for my washing machine to just go out on the ground and say how come you let the let Jim do it and won't let me do it? And I I think
Dick Dick Dick Dick let me let me just stop you for a minute if if if I may. Sure. Somebody somebody made an an anonymous call because I asked them I said who did it? we don't know. I said,
"Okay." They they came, they they inspected, they reviewed, and they told me that there was and I asked them, I wanted I said, "If there if there's going to be a report, I'd like a copy of it." They said, "This
doesn't require a report. There's nothing going on here." Is what they told me. And they go ahead. So, so I didn't initiate this. I've been
inspected by by other state agencies. I'm not doing anything here that um discharging. I'm a subject of a lot of false accusations here and I'm and I'm on the
defense and and the the agencies have come out and found nothing that I'm outside of any type of I'm within the regulations. I'm not doing anything that I shouldn't be doing. Jim, let me ask a dumb Let me ask a dumb
question. So So they gave you their D business cards? Yeah, I've got it. I've got it somewhere in one of my videos. You're sure these people were legit? You're sure they were D employees? Yes. Oh, yeah. Okay. Okay.
I talked to the I talked to the man who said he was going out and he said he was a D person. He he knew who we were. He know and he told me that he was going out. So I I agree with Chip that these are they're very likely D people.
So they were they weren't imposters then. Yeah. I think it was Sean Gonzelves. Sean, right? Because he talked to you. That's what I think, too. Yeah, I I think it was Shawn that talked to you, Dick. The woman that called me, her name was was Sarah, I think. But
yes, that name sounds familiar. Sarah. Yeah, she was going out. This Sarah. Um, I think that we should I think that in this case we can get Jim
out of the middle of this. We've got we've got an issue that we've just gone to Jim with and Jim is telling us the state came in and said what you're doing is is fine. They're not giving they said
he's not getting a report saying that, but that we can say, "Hey, we went to the owner and this is the owner what this is what the owner told us." And I we could say that we talked to that I talked to the the state before the
inspection and I talked specifically about about other things, but it's specifically about this one saying I don't know where any processed liquid waste goes. And this guy said, "Well, I'm going in
and investigating it." So we could send the letter out saying this is we talked to the owner about it. We talked what could be done and the owner said, "You guys came here and said that it was okay, but you weren't going to be
issuing a report on it." So, the board is going to believe what the owner said that you guys are saying what he's doing and what he's doing with those waste is acceptable in the accepted way in the
present way. So we can force them to write that little report that said yes that's what we said because I I Jim I believe you 100% because if they thought it was wrong I
know that you would have got a letter saying hey this is wrong you got this many days to fix it and and you you would have had a report it's it's the same thing the ABCC's been out because of a false false accusation
They've come out and they've inspected and I've asked them, I said, "Is there going to be a report?" And they said, "No, we're going to dismiss this because there's nothing here. There's nothing to report. You're work you're working within within within the the within your
within within your license." So, I never see anything. They come out be and inspect, but I don't I don't get anything. Yeah. But you also don't get it, you know, because it's not warranted. Yeah. But what is what would be nice
is if you got that in writing instead of having to tell us, "Oh, believe me. Believe me, this is what they say." Yeah, that's something that's something. I'm scratching my head over this one. Well, me too. That's
I asked the ABC as well. They dismissed the charges. They have an agenda. They have to have an agenda to go out for a site visit. And even though they found uh no u issue, they still have to generate I
think I hope a report back to their supervisors following up on the complaint and doing that's all public record. Oh yeah, whatever may be there would be public record. That's right. I'm sure they have an
internal report. I'm sure they have whether whether they feel whe whether they feel compelled to to send me a copy of it. That's I I can't make them do that. But No, no, I get that. But they can't just they can't just freewheel out stop here
and stop there and go back and and not do any uh filing to close the topic. Well, the way you do You're right. But but if If in fact there was any issues with the
ABCC or the D, they would file it not only with me, they would file it with the town and my licenses and and all my licenses are public record and I and I am
in good standing on all of them. So, you know, these and and and the fact of the matter is which which quite frankly, excuse me, is pissing me off more than anything is that I'm being I am being
accused of things that aren't true. The burden the the burden is on me and and nothing nothing comes of it because there's nothing there. Well, and and the
it's a it's a shame is what it is. People can make all kinds of accusations. They they have to file reports that aren't just that aren't just accusation reports. They also have to file reports that are um no harm, no follow reports.
You know what I mean? You would you would think, but the way we handle it the way we handle this thing is very it is pretty easy to do is just for us to in effect file their report based on
what Jim told us. And what we'll do is say here's what the owner told us. here that Jim could tell us the date that they came and that he gave a here's what he told us. He told us that you weren't going to be filing a report. And when we
did our investigation, we came up with this and we specifically talked about the the miscellaneous liquid waste that ends up flowing under the ground and that you he pointed it out to you
and you guys said it was fine. And so unless we hear differently from you, we are going to say it is not a a public health issue for something that the board of health should be dealing with. And we put it right back on them. And if
they if they don't answer, it's fine. We just say if we don't hear back from you within 30 days, we'll assume that that is correct. And then that closes it and said, "Here's the letter. We said it. these guys didn't respond and so that's
the right answer and then Jim has copies of that and so when the next people come along to say here's what happened but it's difficult for for Jim to go in this spot he's Jim you're in a a lousy spot
to get the information that we're looking for that because you can't you can't force them to do something. But we can say by their omission to respond,
they have in fact responded. Their omission says that you've kind of like when you send something out on on the board that you work on on the planning board say gee board of health or whoever conservation
commissioner whoever here's the thing that's up in front of us and if you don't respond by this date that is our we are going to believe that you have no response because you didn't respond by that date and then
So if someone says, "Oh, we did have a response." Then you say, "Yeah, but you didn't respond and we told you how we were going to behave if you don't respond." And we're going to do that to them. And then it gets you off the hook and it gets something in our file and
your file. Yeah. You know, Dick, and again, I don't know the exact citation, but I was reading it about a month ago on another matter. I think there's a 40-day response window for the state. I think it might be in the Mass General laws or
D, but I believe they have a 40-day response window. So, if we send them something and they don't respond in 40 days, it's de facto approval. So, uh I would recommend we give them the 40-day window.
That's what we should do. But, but if we don't do this, we're going to run around Oh, I agree. I agree. and and Jim is going to be quite frankly, if I were Jim, I'd be saying, "This just doesn't seem right if the guys from the
state came in and said what I'm doing is okay for you guys to come and be after us from after him." Well, here well, here's here's the other thing. Somebody somebody makes a false claim anonymously. Who do they respond to?
Right. They go after the they go after the business owner because that's the only one they can find. Well, I know, but they they they come to me and they they find the claim is false. But who do they respond to if it's an anonymous
if it's an anonymous uh accusation or a claim? Who do they respond to? I was told this absolutely is not an anonymous complaint and and uh you know my personal
I think I have to talk to to the board about how we're going to do this. I' because I've got to get the name because I did get a call from this this woman and uh it is the same name that I was
told from the state and uh it is not an anonymous complaint and I was told that this particular person by the guy I talked to at the state as as Colleen is saying Sean Gonzaleves I I
believe that the name, but that he's used the words, "This woman has gone sideways and vertically all through the D complaining about what's going on here. Gone up the ladder, up and down and sideways
complaining about this." And he gave me the name. He says, "I don't know." Well, they wouldn't they wouldn't give it to me. And they they and they said they were not they were not putting a formal uh response you know, we'll get but we we should not go
further than with this tonight. Let's let's make the Colleen, could you put this on the next meeting because we're going late again tonight and let's get the letter out to the D and uh you know, Dick, my we deal with this on
conservation matters from time to time. My personal opinion is we can keep someone's name confidential, which is fine, but if we get an anonymous complaint, this could be someone calling in from Western Australia. We have no
clue who it is. That's why my policy is I do not respond or take action on anonymous complaints. That's just the way I feel about it. It wasn't an anonymous complaint. It wasn't to me. Oh, no. I realize this one this one is not. But from time to time, we I'll get
a call that says, "I'm I'm not going to give you my name, but so and so so and so, so and so, so and so." And those are not credible complaints in my opinion. If they're anonymous, credible. I agree with with you that that you you
you know, I can keep if someone if if someone guess it depends on what it was. If if someone says, you know, I saw this person, I don't want to get involved. I'm scared stiff, but I saw them throwing three dead bodies into Bachelor
Brookke. Then then you say, well, I don't respond to that because it's anonymous. Well, you respond to the police department on that one. But for matters that we handle typically, uh, someone should at least acknowledge who they are,
right? Well, yeah. That's just pure board manipulation is what's going on. Of course it is. Of course it is. Well, this is a woman I I just don't remember her name right now. I'm going to have to look it up. It's a woman that lives on Taylor Street and and uh she
called me and she actually was the one that I'll have to look it up, but she's the one that that uh gave me the information about about wine wastes and how bad they were. And uh so I have that I have an email with it with her name.
And when I talked to the guy at the state, he says it's the same woman. He says I don't know. He says he gave she gave her name. He says I don't know you know what she does or anything. And I looked it up in the street list and said this is who she is. This is where she lives and this is what she does for a
living. It's public record. Yeah. Let's move on to the next topic then. So we'll go on Jim. We'll take care of that and we're going to discuss this. Good to talk to you. You don't you don't need to be here. Okay. Okay. Have a good night, gentlemen. Thank you.
Byebye. Thank before Jim Gold. Before Jim Go, while he's still here, Colleen, you put a thing out saying that that the time had come for his Jim's uh permits, the food permits had been, you know, we while Jim's right
here and that that uh we need to discuss that if we've got a question for him, we need to take action. We cannot we can't leave Jim unless we're unless it's our intent to push him into a spot that he
has no license for food permit. Uh we need to do something now. It's not my intent to put you in a spot, Jim, to to say you're running without a license. So, well, the just for your record, I know
there's been some mixups with who's responsible for plumbing inspections and back and forth, but um the plumbing inspector was out oh several weeks ago. I don't know exactly when. Everything's starting to become a
blur here, but uh was out and inspected and passed everything. I replplumbed everything. Everything's tied in. Everything was given a thumbs up. So just just for feeling is that we ought to we ought to
take the restriction off of this thing and and just make get Jim back into the normal schedule. We can talk about what we want to get done to finish it up and with regular toilets or we can do all that. But I I think that my concern
about getting sewage out of the the portaotties and you know pumped out that that he's made a a step forward and uh that at least for right now we've got the the winter time coming now and we should
just let his permits go in at least this one to to be the say okay it goes to the the normal end of Yeah. Is it the calendar year? Is that the normal timing? Calendar year. Yes. Okay. So, it's I move we extend Jim's
permit till 31 December 2025. Yeah. I I support that. Yeah. Lee Howard? Yep. I'll second. Well, it's okay. Are we all voting? I vote yes. Those who in favor I
Okay. So, we're all set. So, that part you're you're legal for your operating part. Okay, thank you gentlemen. Have a good evening. Okay, thanks. Thanks for stopping in. Thank you. So, that is
the last of Let me find my my agenda. I'm afraid I buried it. Here it is. So, that was the last of our appointments. Uh let's let's go through the the rest
of what we have. We did the Well, Bill, while you were away, we approved the minutes from the 26th of August meeting. The next thing I have is is
two of Colleen's time sheets. One is for Septe ended September 6th, one September 20th. They both are for 70 hours for the the two the two weeks. Are we okay with
that? The both of them? Yeah, those are fine. Lee? Yes. Okay. Yes. Yep. The next one I have is for it looks like this must have been for four weeks, but it's the date was
September 23rd for the payments to the treasurer. Total of $2,435. That came from 825 for board of health permits, 610 for board of health licenses, a,000 for board of health
fees, and that's it. Totaling 2,435. Are we okay with that one? Yes, I am too, Colleen. Next one. And there are going to be two tobacco permits. Uh, one is for We
should Well, I'll do them both. One is for Cumberland Farm. Uh, and this is through, uh, September 2026. That's September 30th, 2026. This is the same for
Ruth Gold Liquor. Are we okay with both of those? Yes. you still with us? Looks like we lost Bill. No, I'm good. I'll say yes. We're good. Well, Bill's back. Are you there, Bill?
Oh, yes. I've been here. Okay. Are you for those? Yes. So uh as a as a side to that, our good government, our good president
today disbanded the whole smoking program, the national smoking program, antismoking program. I guess they fired all the people that were in that division nationally. and uh he wants the whole program
disappeared. So I'm hearing rumors that uh restrictions on on diesel fuel emissions are going to be lifted as well. So it's a and it's interesting this week they also along with the great gift to
society that got rid of the the food stamp program put the restrictions on. We are no longer starting immediately, no longer reporting on people who are food challenged that are starving though the
government will no longer report on that. Now, now Dick, this antismoking, does this mean folks can smoke in restaurants at will now? I don't I don't know. There's state laws and everything, but this is the national
antismoking program. They just got rid of the whole thing, stopped funding it, got rid of all the people. So, well, I'm I'm curious what going I don't know enough about it other than to
to hear that that it it was it just happened. And uh you know I I hate to be a conspiracy theorist but and I don't do that but I do know
that Musk and our vice president both belong to a group that say we should be having white babies instead of black babies and
brown babies. And if you look at all the things we're doing, we're certainly doing things to make sure that those babies die. Yeah. And with the vaccin, rich people will be
vaccinated. Poor people won't. So when you look at and when you look at what what must by not feeding the poor of the world, we know that there's going to be at least two million young babies that die, but they're going to be black
babies that die. Yeah, I know. So So if you look at the midterm elections are coming up next year and the presidential elections and another two years after that. So just yeah, let's see.
Hopefully we'll get back to Yeah. And the president today got in front of Yeah. Did you listen Did you listen to the on Yeah. He said you guys Yeah. He says you're stop trying to
fight climate change. You're you're killing yourself by trying to make the world better. Yeah. So anyway, the next thing I have, you know, it's all sadly very much public health stuff.
And the next one is a disposal work system construction permit. It's for Scott Merrill and it is for I think it's the replacement of a septic
tank. septic tank and debox. Are we okay with with that? I saw there was also a title five that went what's what's the address there, Dick? There's a 150 Harris Street. It's up up on the top there. Okay. Okay. I know where he is. Okay.
Yep, that's fine. In fact, this house just Yeah. Yeah, that's in the ground already. It's already Okay, so that's done. Yeah. The next one is a certificate of compliance. This is from Ellen Weiss and
it is the one that's at 154 Bachelor Street. Uh, and Lee, I think you inspected that one. Trying to see what it is. It looks like it must have been Oh, that's the one that the whole system
where they did the Lee. Are we set with that one? At 164 Bachelor. Allan put in a a pretty fancy little sketch as built. Um, wait a second. Let me get my uh I
can't I can't been a while on this one. Let me just get the street list out here. The owner is JC4. The installer looks like Jim Coil. Actually, you you signed it on 99.
Seems like a lot longer than that. Yeah. 154. I see it. Yeah. Sheen. Yeah. Oh, I know where that is. I know where that is. It's around the corner. You go down north and then you swing left. That was done a while ago. Okay. But anyway, yeah, it's all good. It's
all good. Okay. So, Bill, are you set with that? Yeah. Yeah. Oh, I finally got my video going. The next one is a application for well construction lat seven cold till it's
what we just approved and the and the location is the one that we just approved on the drawing. Okay. Bill, you set with that, too? Yeah, that's fine. Okay. selling. Okay.
Next one is a application for disposal system construction permit. Is it 16 Jennifer Drive? Oh, what about the Beaver permit? I didn't have a copy of that. Oh,
Colin, you gave him a second 10day extension, correct? Um, well, that's what he wants. Yeah. Yeah, because he needs 20 days to do the work, Dick. So, we should just approve that, right? Yeah, of course. Okay, you're all set with that.
Yes. Okay, I am too. So, that's all set, Colleen. Okay. I think you can have up to two extensions. So, the next one is uh early on 16 Jennifer Drive. It looks
like this one is just a debox. Uh dwelling fixtures. Yep. Installation of new distribution box in the same location. Yeah, that's that's in place.
Bob Norman installed that. Okay. So, Bill, you're set with that too since it's done. I didn't hear you, Bill. Did you say okay? Yeah. Can you hear me, Dick? No, I can. Yeah,
I figured out my video. Oh, okay. You know, you know what the problem was? It was It was tied into the Goto Meeting and the Zoom both. Oh, so the GoTo Meeting, which was from our conservation meeting the other day,
that's superseding the Zoom. So, I had to sign out a Go-To Meeting and the video showed up here. So, we're good now. Okay. The next one is a license for a one-day temporary food permit for Church of Christ and it is a chicken pie supper
for October 18th. Are we set with that one? Yes, I am too. Yeah, that's good. Okay. Now, we're going to get into things that I'm
They're building permits that that I Some of them I can do, some of them I can't. I'll do them maybe out of order. One is I'm It's so small I can't see it. This is And it's dark here.
This is design group for Vincent Construction. That is the asphalt plant scale house. They just want to replace the house that's there in the spot that's there. Are we okay
with that one? That That's Lane's But it doesn't say Lane. Yeah, it's a new It's a new company. I forget the name of the company. Yeah, they've applied for a wetland permit as well, Dick. That's fine. Okay. You okay with that?
I am too. Yes. Thank you. Is that this the new Lello Road thing or Yeah. Yeah. It used to be lane a new I think it's northeast paving or something. Okay. The next one that I have that I can see that is Pim
and D the Lind Healey. This is 157 Ammer Street. It's it's the one that's way in the back. It was easier farm property. There's a big house that's in there. He
wants to build a garage that it's on. It's no place near his system. His system is to the basically the north of his house and this is it's the northeast of the house and this is to the
southwest of the house. There's nothing remotely near him. Okay. I'm I'm fine with that. Bill, what are your thought? Yeah. Yeah. Again, that's permanently concurrent with conservation. I'm
familiar with that project. That's fine. Okay. Oh, I've got two things for him. The next one I have is for Morgan Street. And this one also has a sketch to it. It
shows that there's going to be a garage put on the house. The the garage is to the south of the house to the front. The septic system is in the middle. The tanks and pump
chamber in the middle of the back of the house and the SAS is to the north. So they're opposite locations. There should be absolutely no no interference. Are we okay with that?
Yes, that's fine. Okay. The the last one that I can tell what it's about and I after this I can't tell from the information that I got is the one with the the swimming pool on
on East Street. And that's also not it's one of the new houses that are that actually was one of Leo Fugler's lots. It's it's to halfway
Yeah. Yeah. between Porter Street. Yeah. I was on that property the other day. Yes. And it's there's no wetlands near it. It's He's in fans and he wants to put a swimming pool. It's not any place near
his his septic system, right? And you know, look at the topography there, Dick. There's a chance he may run into bedrock on that because he's putting a pool in. He It's possible.
Yeah. But because we dug most of the holes that we dug there were okay. But as you said there were we had to poke around in that spot and that the the septic system when you look at the
house the septic system is kind of to the front and to the left and this is to the right and the back and Right. And we stayed away from the right and the back but if if he gets it he gets it. That's Yeah. Yeah. because the pool is a sixft
pool. So, he has to excavate to minus 7 feet to get it to work with the sand cushion. So, I hope he doesn't have to uh excavate too much ledge there if any. Yeah, because it turns out that that rock in there, it's hard rock. That's that's not
it's not shy. It's it's the salt kind of salt. Right. That's right. That's right. So So, we're okay with that. And I could on the other ones that I have. I can't. It was just text and I couldn't tell. In some cases, I couldn't tell what it was
that they were proposing and but I didn't have any sketches to say this is what it is, the size and location. I don't know if if you guys looked at it and could tell on any of the others. Now, I looked at the I looked at the
test logs in the front and the water table. The modeling I think was 80 inches down. So water table should not be a problem. But again, I hope he doesn't run into bedrock there. Colleen, we had other ones that that
that Tom had asked about and I just couldn't I didn't have enough information to to make a determination of whether they affected Okay. Yeah. I think we have the owner here for 164
Bachelor Street, right? Edward. Um, yes. Yes. Okay. So, that one was the He's putting on a front porch and
I think I sent the um there was a picture from a Title Five report, the sketch he kind of drew on the front of that and then he had a drawing with it. So, I don't know if you saw those or is that the one that the the front porch
is that that the sketch that was given had a plan view looking down on and it showed windows in the plan view? Yeah. The Okay. So, I could it was out towards the well. I think the system was in the back and the well
is in the front. Is that the one? Yep, that's the one. So, that's what it was for the porch. So that one that one he could end up with a well line that he's gonna cross,
but the septic system shouldn't and I I guess it as long as he knows that that the well line could be there and he takes care of it, but it should it shouldn't affect the septic system. Can can I add something?
Sure. Uh so I do I am fully aware with the uh well line is a water line which is I would say about 20 ines from the corner of the house if you're looking at the house on the right hand side. So from that corner uh towards the proposed
porch I'm building it's 20 in. So between my last post that I'm putting in the ground proposing to put up to that water line I I get good 7 ft or so of spacing. So I am
horizontal spacing. No, no, no. Yes. Horizontal. Yes. Okay. Okay. Yes. A problem with that? It's good. Lee and Bill, you okay with it? That's fine. Yeah. Just tubes. Sure.
So then that one's okay. Okay. So, Colleen, what do we have any others that we don't know about? Um, let's see. There was the one for 11 Griswald.
They're adding Well, yeah, he's been into the office a couple times and called and I guess they're adding a room. Yeah, they're they're filling in a a enclosing a carport. Adding a room
case where we're where adding a room could could require a septic system investigation. This is a sticky one. These are the sticky ones. Yeah, I asked him to get a statement
from an engineer or an RS, but Tom's got a comment. Tom, go ahead. Yes. So, they they came in the two contractors, the uh partners, and uh they said it was going to be a bedroom, and this was a few weeks ago, and it has
two closets, and then when I had said it needed to go through this process, it wasn't going to be. And I said, "Come on, you have two closets." So that's why I'm I'm sending a mirror away because originally it was going to be a bathroom, you know, bedroom and the two closets, which is still what is
submitted. So it is an additional bedroom. They need to have an engine, they have an engineer certify that the system is capable. The first they have to determine if the system is working and
the second is is the system capable for the potential new use. Yeah, this is the this is sticky. That's what I told him of the project. In closing, what what do they budget for this job? I don't recall. I'm not sure. But it's
Is it like under 20,000? No. No. It includes redoing the whole house. You know, it does include redoing the whole house, but it was the fact that they came in and said they were going to hold off on possibly hold off on the bathroom, but for sure it was going to be a bedroom.
And then I said, well, I told them, don't sell yourself short either. You know, don't go changing it. You have closets, so we have to, you know, turn it over for your sign off. And uh so they decided to go forward with the with the bedroom. Okay. Doesn't matter if if it can be used as a
bedroom. Whether they call it a bedroom, it really doesn't matter if it can be used at a bedroom. So, and the code, this isn't one when they do that that the code clearly says they have to do the septic system investigation. Yeah, they Okay, so I guess there was a
septic system put in in 2024. Here he said they were um only using like two bedrooms and now it was going to be a threebedroom or something. But I did tell him he needed the statement from an engineer, but he just Oh, he says, "I don't have an engineer. I'm
not hiring an engineer." I don't know. So, last year they had a system put in, Colleen. Uh, yes. Oh, they did. Design handy. I Yeah, I don't have it with me, but um
I'll have to I'll send it to you. But I mean, yeah, Dick, just look at the design. I'm sure it's designed for 440. No, we can't we can't be saying, "Oh, we're going to design for you or check the design on some we do it, some we
don't. We're going to we're going to get in the business of engineering septic systems, which you can do. We can't." But the easiest thing it would just be to contact uh the last
the person that designed your system last year. That's just say, "Yeah, we looked at what this house is going to be and here's what I designed it for and it's okay." Yep. Exactly. All right. Yeah. Okay. 10 minutes. Done.
Give them the marching orders. I get a a call from a a person on Bachelor Street who's who's going to build a a a master bedroom suite. And I I said, "I don't know what the board's going to
say." They said, "Well, we got our bedroom and we're going to turn it into an office and build a suite." And I said, "I know what the board's going to say. it just because you call it an office, you can't you can't be saying it's no longer a potential bedroom. I
said, there are ways that people got around it. They put big openings so there aren't any doors or they we even had a one person that got rid of the windows and and so it wouldn't be a a bedroom. But I said if if if it can be
used as a bedroom, you're going to have to have it be used as a bedroom. called a bedroom and it and I said, "You're going to have to get an engineer and and they hire they called Colleen dug up the design and uh and what they ended up
with Neil Jackson and Neil said, "Well, they're infiltrator systems. I don't know whether it's even working. It's 17 years old and that's a long time for an infiltrator system." And he says, "Maybe the thing doesn't work at all right now." M and so well the logical thing is you
have to find out if it's working and then decide what what people want to do what and then present the case but you have to find out if it worked. Yeah. Dick here's a question and Tom question for you too. Are the is the building
department's interpretation of the bedroom substantially the same as the board of healths at this point? Every community is different. you know, they can change it to a office, sewing room, prayer room, what all the
different things, but clearly they I I still don't think I have. So, I will require because once you alter or change a bedroom, it definitely triggers all your um Okay. smoke CO's, CO detectors, I mean, uh heat detectors, all up to code once you
trigger and that means sign off from fire as well. Yeah, because it used to be 80 square ft, privacy, ventilation, and a 7 foot ceiling. I think those were the four criterion at one time, right? And it has to be minimum.
I should know this. I think 9 by7 there is certain things. Yeah. Bill said it's like 80 square feet or something. Yeah. Right. Right. And it has to be, you know, those two dimensions, you know, or more. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.
Yeah. You're right. It can't be it can't be 40 feet long and 2 feet wide and say, "Okay, it's that's reasonably rectangular." Right. That's right. Correct. And then there's always the issue, you know, I'm told the realtor will sell it as a bedroom saying he can
put a locker in it. So, you know, I don't get into any of that because that's not what Bill just talked about is not doesn't say it's got to have a closet. It just That's right. It's not a criterion. It is not a criterion. That's right.
But privacy is a criterion. Yes. So people will end up saying, you know what I did? I ripped the door out and I don't have a door anymore. And it's a 4ft opening. So it it's not like I could just put a little door in here. Go to
Now Tom, you told me a story about that, didn't you? A month ago or so. Yeah. I uh Yeah. tell I end up becoming the alternate in a in a community years ago because the the other alternate literally let the um person just pull the pins and and pull
the door and the board of health wasn't going to have that. So they they ended up canning him. The poor guy. So okay, so they need that and and uh Okay. And what was interesting is is uh
Neil Jackson was is going to come back and he said you know when I get into this thing where you guys have asked for another extra 110 gallons a day and he said I know you don't want to use it up as another bedroom but he said what if I
came back to you and said you know these people when you can end up with 110 gallons a day that based on the old toilets and it's old washing machines. And what happens if I come in and say, you know, these guys
are that number is not a valid number. I these these people have switched. They've got lowflow showerhead. They've got a new a new washing machine and a dishwasher that are 12 gallons per thing. Their toilets are 1.2 gallon
flush. and they're not consuming anywhere near the what was has happened. They've done something to cut down use. So when you look at that that number you're using that maybe people instead
of choosing to put leeching area maybe they choose to put their money into into you know hardware to to stop the flow. Right. And I said the board has to look at that kind of stuff. That's right. That's right.
That's right. Again, in the old days, there was five gallon flush. Yeah. So, anyway, so that's that. Okay. Now, we go the title fives. Oh, title fives. Let me see where I
Okay, I've got title fives are 300 Ammerst. It looks like they're all if you look at they they ended up with
uh Harris Street. We've just gone over that was a conditional pass. That was the uh Merrill, but we've got Ammer Street, Neil Jackson Pass, 300 Ammer Street there. They all had 1500gallon tanks and
they had uh say one of them though I have a question we we'll get I don't know which one it is now that had someone said it had a 4ft water table and but when I looked at it I think the
guy was wrong. I think it it was a fill system with a pump and I think it was 4 feet below the Leechfield water table. But when I go through it, we've got 150 Harris Street by Bob Norman, a
conditional pass. That was the the septic tank and the debox. 33 Green Meadow Lane. Rob uh Robert Norman again passes 156 Kendall Street. Alan Weiss passes 599
East State Street. Greg Everson passes 68 Harris Street. Dave Kibby passes. 81 Norman Morgan Street. Dave Kibby passes. And when we look at them, are are we okay? We accept all of those?
Yes. Yeah. Bill, are you set with with those? Yeah, I'm all set. Dick, I am too. I'll be right back. The discussion items, there are two of them. One of them, kitchen renovation
for American Legion and also Junior Senior High School. My feeling with with those is is we should get a report from Lynn first on on those before we discuss it. But Lee and Bill's not here right
now, but what is your thought, Lee? Well, when you say renovation, right, are they simply replacing components or is this some type of a major add-on? They're really major. They're redoing
them. So yeah, we we need to get Lynn to me uh who has some hands-on uh and give us the background story of what they're doing. Um and whether or not
So here's the other question. Does the size of the job trigger a total uh code upgrade? In other words, if there's something
which has been there uh and it's didn't quite meet the current 2025 code and now that they're remodeling, does everything have to be changed up? I
think what you're going to hear that Lyn is going to tell you absolutely. I'm that I'm I'm thinking the same thing. If the wall isn't, you know, easily cleanable, maybe a ceiling panel, maybe the sink's not a double bay, whatever it takes to
Yeah. the fire, the pressure system, all the the ventilation, all the stuff that that needs to be done needs should be done. But it it sure seems like starting with is the right way to do it, right? Yeah. because I think these are both
these I think both of these are done really but she can still she has the right to go in there and then if something's not right I mean board has the right to say well that that's not right or whatever but yeah I think because they gave us these
plans I I think after this stuff was done at least I know with the American Legion because I called and asked because I heard they were redoing it so Guess what happened? The work prior to a permit. Is that what took place here?
Well, American Legion was Yeah, I I guess I would be a little at fault that I didn't get your sign off in the American Legion. It was put in prior to me starting, but I did issue it and y that should have gone in the future for
sure. Commercial. That's an entirely new kitchen. It is moved to a new location at all. Um it's under construction control. There's an engineer involved and all, but I should have not issued that till I got your sign off. So that's part myself. The other one was just a um
anel system, I believe, at the school that um was was redone. Just an upgrade. Upgrade. Yeah. But no, um clearly I should have informed them most likely before on that uh the legion.
Well, it's interesting. The school wasn't able to to work to even cook in there because of the asbestous and I don't know what's happening if they're
did they have the asbesus all stripped out did it get sealed who knows what's going on there but that's the case where is food coming from we're getting it cooked They some of it was being brought in from the from the
East Medical School, I think. Yes. Yes. Okay. Okay. Interesting. I guess the best thing is to get Lynn in both of these, have her go do the inspection and get back to us, Colleen.
Okay. Um she was also she wanted to be here tonight just to ask um but she was sick I guess all week. Um when she went to the DFest there were some food tables or food
vendors that didn't have permits. M um so she wanted to know from the board um what she should have done in that situation where um they had no food
permits. Uh they only pulled one. The church pulled one for their table, but batch ice cream was there and another table I think was there set up. So she was wondering what the board wanted her to do in that situation. When I read that, my feeling was it it
puts Lynn in a terrible spot. She shows up. It could be it could be out at Carter Day. The same thing that that's right. In fact, I think you said one of these people showed up and and Yeah. and the story that at least you
wrote us that the people that were at dino day or whatever said we don't want to pay the money for a permit so we're going to come without it and I think that that what the board should
do is tell all of these people if you got outside vendors we're going to if you're in charge of this thing we're going to pull your permit. We're going to pull your permit. That it's your responsibility to make sure this thing
is done right. And if otherwise, in fact, who who does dino eggs? Let's let's ask that one. Who is in charge? Who lets people come in there and set
up? Is it the church? Yeah. Church of Christ. Yeah. Yeah. They on the cross. That's their event. Yeah. Yeah. So for us to tell them that that if they allow people to come in, we're
going to we can shut down the whole thing. Politically, that's a hot potato. That's for sure. And it happens all the time. The poor you and the same with the fire chief with the food trucks. Really, I show up at events for the tents and that and you're stuck.
You know, an example in Hley was asparagus festival. two or three of the vendors didn't put their permit in and and you guys ended up you know the board of health and Hadley would end up two three hours getting permits issued and you know because you're only in a bad spot or the bad guy if you throw them out of there right that's right
so what we are working on is we're going to have a meeting um where going to stipulate these things need to be in it'd be up to the church it'd be up to the different event holders um and you're actually going to be on the list too as far as liquor licenses a sign off
so somebody from your board. Um we'll be signing off the fire chief uh police chief and myself like for a one day liquor license and all that. So if there's any questions you have or whatever any input um we're working on that and we want to put together a meeting which if if somebody or all
could could make would be great coming up. I'm working you know with Kathy now even though she's not there a lot. Okay, Dick. You know, one thing we could do is get the names of the two people that were non-compliant, have them come to the board meeting, have them talk to us,
pay us for the permit fee that they should have had, and just stipulate to them, never let it happen again. But we have to talk to these people. Otherwise, we'll pull the same thing next year. You could do that. I'm thinking
if you look at the people that are that have these events if it they're probably how many of them three of them four of them they're not they're not many
that uh it's going to be charter day that's got them the church of Christ the I don't I don't think we have trouble with with the wine house. I think those
people all have permits that are I I think they tell them to Yeah, I think he tells them to call the board of health because the people I always get calls from people for doing the events at the wine house. Yeah. So, so he's not
a an is a a problem, but but maybe we get the who do you know who else has people that are that have food vendors? If you could by the next meeting, if you could get a list, maybe we get the people that are
having the events and say, "Look at we want to be talking and we want you guys to tell us what we're supposed to do right now. We can't let it happen that they can be selling without it. You tell us how you want it to be done. Do
we just show up and tell them to close? Do you you know the real thing is to say you're holding the event. You're responsible and we're going to deal with you. We're not going to be chasing all these people
down. It's your land. You're letting them do it and you and you can't do it. And if you're going to do it, then we're not going to give you a permit. Yeah. Say they have the master. Well, the next thing coming up is going to be your um Christmas bazaars are
going to be coming up next. That won't be too far off. And tell the people that that we really need to be talking to them and have them each. If Colleen can find out who they are, let's get them all and say, "This
is the meeting we're going to be. It's the time we're going to do it. You guys all have to be there and we've got to talk this through. And I'm hoping they'll say, "You're right. That's part of the thing. We're not going to let anybody be on our property that doesn't have a permit. And
we're going to tell them, you can't even plan on being at until you send us a copy of your permit." And then they're accountable for policing their own thing. We're not the bad guy. They are. that they're just acting
responsibly. But I think, Bill, it's probably worthwhile also to do what you're saying is get these people that that violate since they're they're repeat offenders anyways and say, "This is what's going to happen." And if and
maybe in their case say, "You know what we're going to do? We're going to see if we can get you with in trouble with the state and get your whole license to get you black balled. We can't. So, you can't work. We can't find them, can we? D. That's too difficult.
I don't think so. It's too difficult. We might be Colleen can find out if we can. Yeah, I think there's some $300 fine limit in the Commonwealth. It's some mass general law. Could you see if
could it be like a building permit where I mean you'd have to have it you know double the permit if they if they catch it without starting without a permit and that's more they're going to have to pay it to get the permit. It's not like a fine which is half the time you or should say 90% of the time you don't get the money for it. Um but that's how you
know building permit it's gone through the you know select board but you you probably should do it as a board double the fee or something. Well that's what I'm thinking. make it right make it not economical for them to get an after the-act permit. So the permit's $100, we charge them $200 after
the fact and they'll get the message real quick. Problem is these guys can get, you know, part of the reason they got a permit is so Lynn can look at it and they don't get people sick. Well, of course. So if people say, "Oh, I'm gonna show up
and I'm gonna give you raw meat or something." and someone gets sick and say, "Oh, well, we'll charge you twice." And you got someone in a hospital, right? That's But but the intent is to encourage them to get the permit prior to the event.
Yeah. And I'm just trying to game plan to do that. I think Tom is right right now is that you do exactly what Bill said is to to say look at this is what the board of
health is going to say for right now we're going to as as a thing we're going to deal each time you get caught you're going to have to pay double right now we're going to throw you out we're going to deal with it in beforehand
we're going to make sure it doesn't happen. But right now to say we're going to make this kind of painful for you. You guys have to pay this double right now or you're never going to work in this now. That's right. And so you you just you just tell them
that's what's going to happen. That's what we're doing today. And after you do that, I'll bet once you do it to those first two people, that's it. It's not going to be a problem anymore. Yeah. Word's going to get around. Oh yes. So, Colleen, you find out who it is.
Find out who violated. We do that. Find out. I don't know if she knows uh other than batch who the other But I'll ask her. I'll ask Glenn. I'll bet the local ice cream place. Colleen. Oh, yeah. You're right, Dick. They they
must have a vendor list because they know who's coming for those spots for Dest so they would they would know. Yeah. Yeah. So, but definitely we deal once we know who
the the people are that have these kind of events that have vendors, we definitely get them in and say, "How are we going to do this?" And maybe maybe we make them give us a list of who's coming
and say, "Okay, we want to this list." You give us what the permit numbers are, the people that are coming, the permit, and say, "We're not going to sign off on your event until you give us this information." Yeah, that's that's a good idea because
they'll have a list of vendors. And I mean, I know Charter Days is good because I work with them. We go back and forth on who I tell them who has come in. They ask me, "Do you have, you know, this one or that one?" So, um, they've
got it they've got it down. But, uh, this and and there's not that many. So, it's probably Dino Fest and then there might be a a Christmas bazaar. But, uh, yeah, this may not be a big problem. So we can
but I definitely finding out and I think take what Tom is saying and what Bill is saying so we we make them they get some punishment for this and then we do something to stop it in
the future because we we definitely could end up with people getting sick. This is this actually isn't a money-making thing. It's it's really the the kind of a wasp for the town, but but it's it's something to try not to pe
get people sick. Okay. Okay. I bet one of the next items that I asked Colleen to to put in is do we have a way
on building permit approvals? Is there a way that instead of making people wait two weeks or in this last one four weeks to go through this
at least the approval process or what we think is going to be the approval process? Is there something that that Lee or Bill or me could could look at beforehand like I do with the the septic
systems? Is it doesn't have to be the whole board to do this? We know what what we're looking for. Is is there some some thing that we could
we could give the authority to one of us to look at at these building permits as they come through and have Alen just sign off on them for Tom or something that that rather than occupy all of our
time for something to say gee the the swimming pool is in the right place so that there's a porch That's that is fine. It's a no-brainer and which is very different than than looking at at Red Fire Farm. That's a
big deal that does need a bunch of people talking about it. But some of this little stuff, is there a way that that for instance that we just said Bill is going to handle these things and he just goes through them and say,
"Yeah, that's an easy one. Deb, it's fine. We sign off on that and let it go. The board says we live by what Bill says. Kind of like what Bill what Lee does with the basically the septic system inspections, but the board okays
it, but those are all done and buried by instead of making people wait to get the, you know, new tank or a new debox. Yeah, we do the same thing on conservation. And Dave Desilelet does the same thing for us as the agent on
conservation. There's a lot of no-brainers, but he'll run the no-brainers by me, but for the most part, he acts autonomously on those. So we don't have that we don't have that person that that agent
but we certainly could you know I would feel very comfortable letting you know supporting you or Lee just saying yeah I looked at that it's it's fine. Uh
even even to the point of if you add some protection in there that that let's say you did it, Bill, and you told Colleen, you and Colleen talked and then
Colleen just sent things out saying, "Yeah, this was approved. This was approved." So, so it's not like the board doesn't know, but you just send them out and say that was approved. And if if if it were you and and Lee and I said,
"Holy mackerel, Bill really missed this thing." And you could you could do I doubt that that's ever going to happen, but that whoever would be doing that would be saying, "Yeah, let's get let's not bother everybody with these little
bitty things that And I think I think the way to do it, Tom, is I' I' I'd have to have access to the portal, right? The town portal." Yes. Which Colleen has access. Yeah. So what I could do, Dick, is just I could look at the portal which would have all the submitted information so I
would not have to fiddle through any paperwork. You do it online and you can do it very efficiently. Lee, are you are you thinking that that's a good way to do this? Absolutely.
Otherwise, you're going to be back and forth in the office checking out uh septic prints, uh where the wells located, if there is prints or not, if it's too old, etc. But uh anything online, it's still
pointed out correctly with Tom's uh uh assistance on this thing. It could be five minute check over to the homeowner and done in moments rather than in as you pointed out
weeks. You know, we've had tonight we spent a whole bunch of time on these with the three of us, you know, looking each one of duplicating the effort, spending time and and Bill could could make it that
Tom is the like on a board of health question. Bill doesn't have to be the guy that says, "Get me this information to the to the homeowner." Bill could just be going back to Tom saying, "Hey, Tom, we need this septic system
information." And Tom says, "Okay, I'm the I'm handling the permit part of this, and I'll make those people get it as as part of and and so it it doesn't end up with a lot of extra work for Bill, but I'll bet threequarters of this
stuff just goes zinging right through." Yes. Without a big problem. Tom, would you would you be in charge of uploading all the information on the portal? I try to get it all to begin with and Colleen has I think you've actually commented to people, right? Or was it
just conservation that's that Dave has. I Well, I sent some emails to people. Yeah, we needed something. Yeah. Yeah. So, she's actually commented. Yeah, Dave's got our account. If you could give me an account and a password, that would be fine. Then I can do it, too. That would be fine.
Yep. And and like I said, Dave and Colleen both have been it's it's been great for for, you know, a smaller town to not have somebody right, you know, the board always there and things, you know, asking questions or requiring things as well. And if not, I can do it, you know, just shoot me a text or call and say, "Hey, we need this."
Right, Dick? Because that if someone happens to come in tomorrow and they've got to wait two weeks to get a permit or heaven forbid 29 days for a conservation meeting, that's that's absurd. So we try we can expedite our permitting this way
and it's it's a fine way to do it. Okay. And we'll take advantage. Are are you willing to to let Bill be the guy that does does this or if you'd like to do it? I I'm not anxious to do it. I you know
the system to do. It's driving me crazy. Yeah. You got enough to do. Oh, it's more than fine. Um I think uh Bill is very um skilled uh with the
computer and um at some point in time if it becomes overwhelming then I can get a quick tutorial about how to access that information and uh share the load if it comes to that point which I don't think
it will uh but yeah I think uh we at least owe it to ourselves. and the constituents uh giving this thing a shot. Ma, as you're talking through this,
I'm thinking as as long as we're we're doing this kind of stuff that we call these things inspections that maybe we as long as Bill's going to do this. I'm now we're we're throwing
something on Bill and I'm looking at something that I think is is unreasonable for the town to be getting from me free that these septic system reviews.
But now Bill, we're going to throw on Bill and he's gonna do you should be paid for those, Dick. You should be paid for those reviews. You know that. And and I think what we do is if Bill just as much as Lee goes and looks up at a debox
that Bill if Bill is doing a a review of a a building permit that we say, "Okay, each one of those building permits, even if he has to do more work on some than others, that but each one of those permits that he works on is an
inspection." And then that we just say for mine too that each one of these septic system designs reviews is an inspection and it's probably
you know none of them you're not going you're not going to make any money on any of them but at least at least you're you know I this weekend I'll bet I'll bet that I've spent 20 hours on this weekend
on septic system stuff. Wow. Well, and and and my concern is that the inspection process somehow
uh has to click out in an hour per you know what I mean? You're not going to make any money. I know. No. No, no one's making money even but even at at the rate per hour uh no one's
making any money because once you throw in some uh travel time and research and all the data and all the checking and rechecking it's still such an inexpensive uh
undervalued um service right and I think it's absurd heard that uh and the majority of people and I mean like 99%
of the people have no clue how much effort you put into uh these septic reviews and preparing for these meetings. And um if you're charging
the town $35 to review a tough site that Neil designed on Cold Hill and you're on this thing for five or six hours, um I would hope that the um
rate would be, you know, five or six hours at least times 35. Yeah. But I at that probably it probably should be a whole lot more. It should be a whole lot more than that. Yeah. Well, you can see what what Lynn is doing now is saying for each one of
her visits is a $100. You know, there's some fast ones, slow ones, but it's $100, right? But and I I I get it. Uh but that and it's not an insult to you or me or
Bill. Um, but it doesn't make any sense either on the same uh topic. Yeah. I mean, Lynn's a professional. Um, the three of us are in that same
category. Uh, and I I'm not doing this any more than you guys are for income for sure. Never been never been the case. Uh but the next generation is going to be different
for sure. And um right, remember Lee, we took on the assignment of seeing what the future board of health is going to be looking like. And it's not going to be this. You know that no, you're not going to
have three skilled people giving free service. It's just not going to happen. So 120 years combined experience. So my suggestion is at least for right
now, why don't we call since we're now going to throw this thing on the bill is to say for each one of those you're going to call this an inspection. I'll call these reviews an inspection. So, we do that and we ought to look at
at what we should be charging for these things, what we should be putting on our as our fees that that uh but at least for right now, we just do that because we're we're asking Bill to do something else that
that helped us out the the two of us. It it helped Bill for sure because it means we're not having big long meetings that for things that that he can kind of do. That's a that's a good point. That will
cut our meetings down by probably 45 minutes per meeting. Yeah, you're right. Right. And the other thing is that in in again just for the sake of uh argument
um occasionally when I'm on site with contractors from different areas of Western Mass um rarely but once in a while the conversation will come up about uh
permits and fees and so forth. And from what they're telling me, unless they're stretching the uh basic data, um the town of Graanby is in the dark ages as far as uh permitting goes from a
fee structure. Course the tongue and cheek comment says, "I wish our real estate taxes were in the dark ages." [Music] Amen to that. Yeah. you set me up on that one late.
Very good. So anyway, okay. So that's what we'll do. And uh so we'll see if that that can clean it up. Very good. Thank you, gentlemen. Yeah. Okay. We're headed towards 9:30.
So Tom, thank you for spending your evening with us. Sure. I did have one more question if you could click or I just want to make sure that for Redfire Farm that the kitchen because there is going to be the way it's looking a kitchen in there. I don't have a full set of plans. It's only permit as a
shell. Um but there's going to be kitchen cleaning area and that. So I don't know if they've come to you yet with with anything to look over. But I would really like your blessing with that before I give the next the use and the whole you know finished permit going
to be submitted here soon. We have not seen that. Lynn has not reviewed that yet. So we we definitely should be reviewing it. They they've given an engineering layout, you know, for saying, okay, you figure out what
the sewage is based on this, but we definitely have not seen a materials of construction, what are the the devices that they're installing, what's the ventilation. We we haven't seen any of
that. So, that that needs to be be done. Okay. I'll make sure. I know Fred uh Mr. Marian actually, I believe, issued the permit. He's he's actually got a plumbing plan and and reviewed it. So, they know what's going in the ground and and whatever before they pour a floor, you know, separators or whatever is
needed. So, I will I will push them and make sure you get that sooner than later. Yeah. Okay. Thank you. Okay. All right. Thank you. So, good night everybody. Good night. No, it's good to have you. It's good to have you back whole.
Thanks, Dick. I'm feeling a lot better. You know, incrementally, every day it's been incrementally better, which is great. I thought there'd be some ups and downs, but realistically, every day has been a little bit better. That's good. That's good. That's good. When do you When do you
think you'll be golfing? Oh, I'm guessing another two weeks, but I'm gonna probably go up with the the the group tomorrow morning at 8 o'clock and walk around with them for a little while anyway. Yeah. Get some exercise in. Oh, yeah.
Yeah. Oh, and just uh just a um a backwards comment here, Dick. Um, hats off to you with uh Red Red Fire Farm as far as um them getting on board
with the future generation system um on everyone's terms without having a knockdown drag. I would still be fighting about it. That worked out very well. Very well done. if you went the other way with
that. Very good. Well, that's the that's the benefit of all of our working together to try to get things accomplished and and uh try to stay away from win lose. That our board doesn't do well. We're we're a
win-win board. And that's why hopefully that's what Bill as you put all those years of service in and experience in that uh that it works and it's each one of us takes our turn at coming up with
something that said hey let's let's think about this get out of that box we're stuck in. So we each have our turns. Yep. So very good. Very good. Okay. Okay. Good night. And Tom, it's great for you to be with us. It's a it
it really is it's it's different. We don't usually have the benefits of of this and it really is a a pain in the neck for you to I recognize for you. Thank you. I appreciate that. Give your time for this that you've got
a lot better things than spending two and a half hours on a Tuesday night doing this. And well, thank you. I appreciate that. But I we we're aware of we're aware of what it takes to do that and I certainly
appreciate it. Thank you. Yeah, it's very important to have your your expertise and your angle of approach with problems that we hear about but don't know the inside workings like you do. So, it it really helps the
board accomplish a lot more in a better time frame. It's real good. Yeah. Thank you. So, good night everybody. Okay. Thank you all. Colleen was supposed to put something on
before we shut down. It's time that we be talking about what's going to happen to Colleen and her hours. This is coming. That is right now. We we can wait till next
meeting to to talk about it. But Colleen definitely has has needs that that are changing. Colleen is Colleen unlike us keeps getting older and
all it's all in one's mind. That's right. And so Colleen really does have to to to change her life. And and we've talked about how important it is to to to to try to preserve the service
that Colleen is giving us in the town. And so what I what I've asked Colleen to do that that her general thoughts are they're kind of a funny a funny way
that that she'd like to work. And it it's kind of like a heavy week and a light week. a heavy week and a light week because at least at this point in their life being with her grandchildren that is for a period of time on a on a
weekend is important. So, what I've asked Colleen is to actually come up with something that that fits what she's looking to do in her personal life and
to see if there's a way that she can provide what she's been providing that she's actually the best she's got the best view of what she does. and and if she can look at and and
Colleen and I haven't talked very much about it, just a tiny little bit and and to be looking at the impact of hooking up with Northampton and some of the load that shifted there of how we have the potential of letting
Colleen flex and not have the town be hurt, right? But but uh it it's something that I had asked her to to talk about think about tonight. But obviously this of of all the nights,
this is the worst night to be talking about this. But but one specific question, Colleen, could could you do some of your work from home remotely? Would that work or not work? Um
I guess if I had access to um you'd have to have a computer access to the computer system. Right. Right. But um you know I the problem is Colleen when you talk to
me at least at this point of your life it isn't that you're just trying to work fewer hours. You really are saying, "Hey, there's this thing that I want to have as empty time for me to do with your grandchild."
Exactly. So, and so it's not a thing that's saying, "Could you be with your grandchild and work on the computer at the same time?" At this point, that doesn't work for for you. No, no, no, it doesn't. I' I'd really
have to cut cut my hours a little, but um I I know what I do, you know, to get ready for the meetings and when I do it. And um also the fact that my my children, my grandson uh lives out of
the area, so I'm looking to get two days that I can just not be working and go there to take care of them and and then come back and then work. So, like a a full week plus a meeting and then maybe a short week um is what I'm, you know,
thinking of. Uh just because that would work because they don't they don't live here around town. So, we can I'm sure we can work something out. What I suggested to Clene is to come up with a proposal that she knows would
work to support her current job and that she the three of us can't do that because we don't know what what's being what you give up and and and what coverage we would get. And so just
the just to see but it's coming. She Colleen is really saying, you know, this is something that that has to happen in her life and she would like not to to say, well, if you force me into saying
it's time to retire so I can do this, that I'd like to not be forced that that be the decision. Either take what I have now or quit and take nothing. Make it binary. That you take all or nothing. and that that if you could do that by
let's say next week because we're if this is going to happen in a couple months we ought to prepare for it and and if you said gee we can't we can't come to some conclusion that we both agree with then you say you know what
you guys are going to force me to leave and and that and we should be managing that I don't believe that's the case I it I think this is one of the things that where Bill was talking about all this experience that's floating around
in this office that it also makes us that that we can do our work kind of smarter that if doing paying Bill some money on the side to do what he we said we're doing with these
reviews ends up taking his singular time that is way less total time and having us the three of us or the four of us doing some of it all at the same time doing the same thing. And then when you
eat just the the background that we waste, then you talk about it some more when you say, "You know what? You didn't even have to talk about that stupid." Not only did we each look at the swimming pool, we wasted that time. And
then we talked about some more when Bill would have just said, you know, that's that's fine. Let's watch out. He can watch out for the ledge. He'll Bill knows all about he knows about what to worry about with the with the conservation part of it. It's a it's an
easy said thing for him to do. So by being smart, we can do things faster. Yeah. Dick, having you do the reviews outside a meeting is great, too. Remember years ago back in the 90s, Bob Sheen senior would come in and we'd see
the plan for the first time at the meeting. We review the plan in real time. That was right. Inefficient. It was great, but it was so inefficient. It was terrible. And he wouldn't catch any all of it anyways. And then we'd each talk about all the things and say
why on so many of the things it doesn't matter that it says you're supposed to have five foot separation. some look and check it. You know how three people don't have to look and talk about it. It's just it is or isn't and and so yeah that would be 11 o'clock at night.
I remember those. That's right. Every night it would be and yeah and they're in the circular room at Kellogg Hall. Yeah. Yes, that's right. and having having Colleen with a a written agenda that we just go bing bing bing through
and and stuff that's all copied and ready to go and and try to cut off discussions that don't need to be had and that that discipline makes it so you can you can do this and and I unfort or fortunately I guess
is is knowing how we think how the three of us or four of us think makes it so that the other person can really say I I know how that person feels about that and I'm going to be careful in that spot because it it's you know it's it's a
strong feeling. So you already cut through a b a bunch of stuff that that you know what's going to happen. So, and having Bill being involved with the conservation commission is a thing that you say it affects us all the time, but
it it it's something that just gets handled easier. So, but anyway, so we have if you can make sure we have that in the next meeting, Colleen, so we can we can at least start moving. You know, we've only got a a few months and and
I'll be gone to St. Martin from from the 17th of of uh November through the 2nd of of December. Okay. So they there, you know, two and a half weeks that I'm gone. Okay.
So, Colleen, is it possible without putting more on your plate, um, is it possible to do a a really light analysis of, uh, perhaps
Friday's activities? In other words, do you know you see 12 people, one person, no people, average? Uh just as a just as a future talking
point for what did you say for Fridays? Yeah, I don't know how much uh um um customer or whatever you want to call it. um constituent um hands-on activity
really takes place and maybe that's maybe that's a possible um optional day. Yeah, aren't open on Fridays. Yeah, but that see that doesn't that
won't work for Colleen. We have to when we talked this through with Colleen unlike unlike a lot of businesses that said you know what let's work a 4 day week and maybe well maybe if you look through what Lee just said maybe that's
is exactly if you look at it Colleen you be open and say what if they said that that I'd go to a four day week what would that do what what would so you you should really look and say that
that maybe that's an easier way for the board to run. But if you look and say that won't work at all for me. It just won't work. But but for you to at least look and and and say because that that is that isn't easy
from the town standpoint that's certainly the easiest thing to to just absorb. But but when you and I talked, you said, "Gee, that's only because of the travel." Um, yeah. Traveling to the eastern part, and
Fridays just aren't aren't a good travel day down on the That's right. You're right there. Thank you. Yeah. So, well, I will put I will put down what what I'm thinking of. I'll send it to you um and and my reasoning and then
um yeah, we can kind of go from there. You might find what what you should keep in your in your thinking is that the board in general doesn't have a uniform load that that it's not a
uniform time load. So if you said gee you know I am really prompted on the Thursday Friday before your Tuesday meeting.
I am. It's Thursday, Friday, Monday's not so terrible because stuff is locked in for the Tuesday meeting. But that's the bad time. And then the the Wednesday and or the Thursday and Friday after
that, I don't have anything to do. That's really light time for me. So, I've got this buildup time and then this load time. So if you look that's the way the board flows because of the Tuesday meetings. Yeah.
And then to to look and say well how could we how could we make some something especially when you say gee my my needing my needs aren't uniform either. Mhm.
So if if it turns out that you can put your low spot at the natural low spot in the in the board works, then think about that because for sure all this baloney. I know I know for me I have a
lot a lot of work the the starting the Thursday before our meetings. Yeah. I I don't like the weekends before the meeting. Yeah. Yeah. Sure. I really don't like those weekends. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, I I I have I I've
thought of of that and when I know when I do the the bulk of, you know, getting ready for the meeting and and all that. So, um Yeah. You know, and you may find that that's when you do the financial stuff. I don't
know where any of that stuff fits. Yeah. But but you may look and say this is the there's some natural spot in this border cycle that if you were trying to take some time out of it it would be a chunk that sat right here.
Yeah. And you may find out that you say you know what it really isn't a Thursday and Friday that I want I shouldn't be out of here. Maybe it's a a Monday and Tuesday. Yeah. that that's something that that says
that but at least see how the whole thing goes together. Yeah. And then and then cut but you're definitely as Lee is just point out you're you're the person that can say this is I'm the one living
this job. Yeah. And I know what the part that you say this is really simple to do it this way and it's really terrible to do it this other way. And I don't know what I don't know what's if that's true that those are true statements at all.
Yeah. No, no, it's it's true. There's definitely because of the meetings especially. There's there are definitely days that I wouldn't take off because I'm getting that stuff ready and and getting the meeting stuff to everyone and and all that. And then
there are other days that are I've done the minutes, I've done everything from from the meeting and then it's it's kind of a low spot. So yeah, I'm I'm taking all that into consideration with with this too because um I don't want to be in a spot where I
when I am working I'm like crazy you know it's crazy like oh why did I take that day off because I had you know and I'll have you know I could have flexibility too. So, but the other thing the other thing that you could that we could talk about
is that you could if we got our act together soon enough, we could say, you know, instead of just pulling the trigger here, let's go a month at whatever we decide we think might
work and try it and say this is where It screwed up or it didn't get screwed up. But but we it needs to be adjusted to Yeah. Well, that's true. That's true,
too. Till Yeah. I actually do that and see what you know and see what happens. See what happens. Yeah. Yeah. For sure. For sure. That's a good idea. Just, you know, try it out. Yeah. Yeah. And then we can also
modify it in in get get to where you like what we uh and get through trial and error and uh everybody gets uh gets happy at the end.
Sure. Yeah, that's a good suggestion, Dex. Y and and we have to be honest about it. Our responsibility is to the town. As much as as much as we like each other and we try to accommodate each other, we
don't want to do something that says, you know what, this really affected the service we provide the town. And it and you know, you can say, you know what, it doesn't work. It just it doesn't it just doesn't work. And that's okay that we're all gonna
we're all gonna move on. And but I don't my gut feeling is that's not we're not at that time. Yeah, that's my gut feeling. Yeah, I think it can be worked out. I do. I I there's flexibility with that
those hours and and the workload. I I really feel that. But okay, are we ready to leave? We're ready. Okay. Thanks everybody. All right. Good night tonight. Thank you so much. Okay. Bye now. Byebye.
Thanks. Bye. Good night. Thank you.