[Music] okay now we have a board here it's
5:32 going be open The Zing ofal here um and what i' like to do is do introduction since uh been messed up before I'm Kathleen Broner I'm chair Steve m m Dakota Richards member Brian
trony member Ron har member and the applicant J hi Jason H areia okay uh what we'll do is to open the meeting I will read the formal announcement uh into the minutes okay
the g board of appeals will hold the following public hearing on February uh 18 2025 at 259a East State Street Public Safety complex granding M uh to consider at 5 30 uh to consider the petition of Jason
Richard applicant owner seeking inance of section three regulations 3 Lael two dimensional density regulation regarding insufficient minimum setback front setbacks and insufficient minimum side
setbacks regarding a proposed construction of an RV RV roof only carport located at 7 coill Drive known as 3 da a d b d 11 in the town of grany
mass in addition to the above hearing the board of appeals intends to conduct a public uh meeting following said hearing as time permits this noce is given pursuance to chapter 4A and chapter 39 section 23b of the
Massachusetts um general laws okay that is our official notice what we get to do is have you begin um we have received materials of your application is for you to review the
project um and then ask questions and so forth so Jason what would you like what what what's your plans some inframed RV cboard you know the RV
I missed my set box it's 15 ft from the side yard I'm at 12 and it's 40 ft from the road and I can't uh okay so your house is what 37 ft the corner my house is sit at an angle if
you look at the okay yeah so from there is is 32 from this front corner from from this front corner that's 32 32 ft to the RO okay and then where you're looking to construct to the
right side of the ground to the right side yeah I by um for the campers Park no right and and so what you're looking to do it's going to be 12T I believe it was
12T from the road to the front corner of the the 14 14 then 12 from the side yeah that was 12 from the side 14 um so right now where your house is located it's a corner line I know it's
nonc conforming because it's not the proper setbacks um50 to well and that's it yeah you're not alone you're not alone um many of the homest that were both pre
zoning don't have 4 at back um I did take a a ride by so I'll just open with questions and then turn over to you guys it's tight here next to your neighbors now tell me a little bit more about the construction is this a permanent I mean
it's just a roof right roof only aluminum GRE carport which going to have concrete pillars so be stationary it'll be a permanent it can come down easily that's for sure it's Perman because you're lagging into the land Creek essentially other than that you can take it out
right yeah it's not movable from I mean you're going to attach it to the concrete pillars yeah just for wind just for wind yeah otherwise nowadays yeah the wind we've been getting
questions um now when here's a question um I do have and and um in driving around and looking because I'm going to get a better fix is there an option over here or what do you what do you have going on over here
on that side I'd still not meet the 40 ft and it goes uphill to the house same thing in the backyard it goes uphill and my setic system is all right here so your setic is in the back and the further you would push it back the closer it gets to that the further I
push it back the closer I get to my neighbor's makes it closer I did speak to the neighbors right beside me and they don't have a problem the the um the dimensions of it are listed here 12 feet wide yeah 25 ft long and 12T High correct and I'm putting it
3 ft off the garage just to keep the snow I don't want to put it right up against the garage because then I'll have the snow I won't be able to R into the snow I could meet the 15 ft for the sidey yard but I'd have to put it right up against the G create another hazard
yes one of my I'm not as concerned especially on colic fing Fe neighbors um because you know when I no school how CL are going to be to their side so if they
um are okay with it that's very good I am concerned about the 15 ft set back 14 foot set back because that um one of the things I I looked up and in our zoning by law is under
3.34 um is pre-existing nonperforming structures which your is it's not a bad thing it's just what it is because you're not uh and uses may be extended or altered when the special permitting R
finds a finding designate the ordinance that such change extension alterated is not suff more detrimental than the existing non-conforming abuse um what my my concern is it isn't
totally negative I I do have a concern that the house is already not beating the front set back and by adding the structure increases that increases it's non-conforming so that's just been my big concern about
this I wouldn't consider it more detrimental though no again no no not the neighborhood surrounding it's a a bit of a unique situation to me the way they position these hoses on these Lots years yeah they're free zoning so
you know I didn't build no oh I know makes you kind of Wonder back way back then why didn't they put the house got all this room in the back the back stream probably was the flattest piece of the before they added the septic it was more of a going straight down there
may have been a reason for it backed then but when they replace the septic system I ended up with a flat back there in going down now I have a Ste I have questions okay yes please um I just want clarification on the
setbacks claim it from this corner of the garage to the street is 32 ft correct okay um you can see that this red line here actually represents the property line so your your property setback is much less than 32 ft well I was just measuring to the road yeah I I
understand that I can't see that red line well as where is right but um my point is is that your existing house is much closer than 32 ft to the property line versus the street so the extension
of the proposed uh car Court would be an additional 4 is that correct would that be correct James I think it's 12T wide yeah you say um I just this is not the scale I
understand that but it looks like the carport is only extending perhaps uh maybe 6 ft beyond the corner of the garage that would be embarrassment from the corner of the garage to garage to the corner of the the proposed carport 3 ft from the garage to the cardboard and
then 3 ft here yeah I can oh here so so so here's your so 3 doing it right basically in line with the the way the garage sits
now 3 ft from the garage over in this direction correct okay my question is this Dimension what would you estimate that it's about about 4T okay so you're effectively increasing the um I could
push it back farther and make it in line with the garage but I I'm going to you get you get closer to the neighbor my point I'm trying to illustrate here is that the point of this uh carport is probably less than the existing portion
of the the house or nearly the same name as the house that be a fair statement okay uh the second question I have is um the nature of this carport fundamentally is a temporary structure
isn't it yeah do you have an estimate in terms of what it's useful life is I don't I don't know what theum how long it lasts and it could be dismantled by simply unbolting it correct
talking out sides or back or do just the only reason he's really here is because he's Boling it in my opinion he's bolting it down to keep it from moving for the wind factor I wouldn't consider that on structure just because
it's bolted to right just going to be in the the TU concrete so that way I can make the bottom not fly away in a big Windstorm yeah it's a big sale especially with size correct
yeah I'm sure the majority of them in town aren't even gone through this process no doubt what try do things oh no of course no no we appreciate your camper trailer is
it's just no it's it's a big trailer it's actually pretty small compared to the ones in the RV parts yeah it's only 28pt long is it t long yeah yes yeah you take it everywhere yeah North Carolina
delare Cas and uh I guess fin my final question would be uh uh you considered putting it elsewhere on the property but due to the shape or size of the I did area I wish I could put it somewhere else on the property but
stop thank okay thank you mostly because of the septics and any other questions comments no right open the floor for Butters foron ORS oh yes we can I
don't nope you clarify no but um one of the things that and um my last comment and then we can get to motions is that there's three
components for LBA granting of Marys one is hardship could be financial hardship or um or topography you know that where you can't do it that whatever you're
doing also stays in line with your neighborhood um um and also that um um that it it is line with and then it doesn't Pro approve to be a detriment my
only my only concern is to setback um because it is so close um but so I'm just sharing that's what my concern and that I know sure meets all the three criteria of real hardship but um I also we also want to
work with our community and I think the mitigating factor for me is that it's much more of a temporary structure than apartment structure I think I'd have a lot more concerns if it was a permanent garage yeah because it would be so close to the road and what if they expand you
know all of a sudden decide double the size of your road unlikely but they could yeah they could you know they could um so um so that's really the last of my concerns um could I if there's no
more comments I can push it back and make it even with the front of the garage that'll give me my stuff back for there but I'm probably going to be about 7 ft I I almost rather have you my take be further than be closer to your that's
why I do it like that okay I didn't want to be okay yeah you never know they s somebody else yeah good thing is if I ever get rid of the RV and i' stop
traveling um could I ask for a motion to close the B portion um any second second any discussion we all good could we have a vote all in
favor okay um what we now will do is open the zv8 portion of the meeting so the hearing is so take any more comments um any further discussion or are we ready to take a
vote I'd like to make a comment okay I think that Mr Richard has uh clearly identified the property's uh drawbacks in terms of satisfying 4A section 7 regarding shap
size land uh I also believe that uh inherently the hardship is uh protection of a probably fairly expensive travel trailer MH um I believe that the the proposed set fact given the the
type location of the existing structure to the paring line is relatively uh not as great as might be indicated uh by the drawing for the simple fact um the house is Twisted the
corner is as Mr Richard has stated is about U what did you say 6 ft 4T cor 4T extension to the front I agree with the um the premise that if you moved it back flush that it would make it closer to
the property line which would increase or decrease the amount of setep back there uh and lastly uh due to the temporary nature of the structure um I believe that um the variant should
be granted okay there's [Applause] second second are we all in favor all I hi okay You' been granted the variance um
what will happen is we um I'll um and we will file I'll drop it off tomorrow at the Town Hall it goes to Cathy Kelly um there is um 20 days uh
that offenders can appeal the decision and then so we always like to encourage hold off just in case anything yeah okay kind of chilly it's kind of chilly to do it um and then after that period um and
if no one has appealed the decision Kathy will write up a document and that and so once you know that you have to record it and up with the cler okay
um so but we do appreciate you doing it the correct way coming to see us and asking um and to work with the zoning absolutely for we really do appreciate it because it's the best way and it protects you and it protects everyone too butre we it's always good to do it
the right way so thank you I agree okay um so that portion of our meeting is concluded um but what I'd like to do is just take a moment um all the other pie of business that I handed out um Steve
NY um refused himself in the last meeting but in front of you are the minutes that had emailed you somewhere there you're all set you're all set we're just doing a little bit of business thank you very much no thank
you good luck enjoy your travels um is I believe I emailed them all to you back from November 19th um and what I'd like to do is just have a vote uh for them to be um put
into the the record um I've made no changes I make a motion that we accept the gr B zoning board of appeals public hearing meeting minutes of November 19th 2024 as written as uh can I have a second second okay
all in favor I I one abion and one and before I close our public meeting I just want to um note that Jeremy carer uh um has we received and
communicated with the committee um um his resignation as of the end of uh January um I'm many just said a pleasure of working with him for many years and and through some um uh challenging um
zoning issues uh with different applicat and he was always professional and in Good Humor so I just wanted to make not of that for uh as part of our meeting and just to share that um a couple of our committee members uh no of members and including
myself possible new members so we're hoping to add one or two um uh full board is five and we should have two alternates just in case so um and if you think of anyone else but um we already had two or three kind up on the de so um
I just wanted to share that update when was the last time we updated our application look everything else to uh I have no idea I have no answer that you know I have no because I don't even I have filled out an application I didn't even
know we had one okay so I would when you get a denial letter you have the right to appeal obviously to us as a zba um I guess the reason I bring it up is other surrounding towns have a little more in-depth process they give us more information as the board for the in
regards to Applications yeah so I don't know if that was something we want to put on our agenda as aard okay can that's probably a good idea could you obtain samples samples maybe you know yeah what we could do is even we uh
no mind you're not much technology but um yeah if you get some samples to us you can email them yeah to us take a look at them we can let me pull out our own I we have our standard application but um let me get a copy of that
did just your Tong cuz I just had it I them off earlier when I had um but obviously I can s this as well but they have more room for yeah yeah well just you know it gives the the person applying a little
more knowledge to us and what their opinion is on you know certain things whether that be a variance or a special perment um which I think could be a little I'm not saying we need to go this far in depth by any means yeah and sometimes
less is more no no it's true I'd rather have it ahead of time because it you know right whether it's also uh going to see the property you know and there's nothing to be S why like you live down um that um to
give a good sense of how it relates to the others you know and a good feel for it um and to consider the public document in a lot of towns that they fill out ahead of time and like I said it's not all probably
required for us but maybe just thinking dealing with other towns and surrounding area maybe something we can look into and oh absolutely yeah and there's and quite July um I've spent a good amount of time uh time with our to council um
and um there are much more pressures on zba's not to gr fances to raise the bar on them um and uh he had Express concern that on um our flexibility and
BR appearances and and so I think however we look at tightening of the process so if you look at those pages it says the criteria right here that's what and I like the fact that they have to answer it independently and then we also speak about it because it yeah uh
because in some cases variances are well merited absolutely um think there's a the criteria here yeah I'll take a look at it to the end of it there's for okay three
questions for each one them to ask and answer okay gives us fre okay so yeah that is good yeah it's get it from their perspective directly ahead of time too not just at the public hearing
right well it gives us time to review and then be prepared to ask exactly exactly great thanks it's a great suggestion okay so uh any other business to bring to I just have a a question on
this this new law that was passed about six months AG go on these little you can have a little apartment on your pro property blah blah blah does that automatically we know we all know we have several many of them around town that weren't were basically illegal are
they automatically deem legal they don't or do they have to do something to apply to make it legal or I mean Ian I mean over the years we've all allowed people to have in-law apartment under certain circumstances the building
start there the zoning offic supposed to follow up on and never really happens but we're still there are they automatically deemed legal with that new law I don't know um i' be are they grandfathered in I mean
technically counil may they need to apply for the permit to make them legal off the top of my head I can think of about a dozen of them T from how I read it it's by right now so not going
for yeah right but so if it was has nothing to do with it and they for it now I don't know blanket approved it throughout the state what I heard there is a 900 square 900 square ft in your house or J to your house or you can
build a little building as long as it uses the electric and the septic and the water from your y your property the clarity I never had was on the in-law apartments because I was always looking for just ific of something in writing um
about you know uh years ago when it came first on the on the CBA that you couldn't have a full kitchen right but where does it say that yeah that was a stipulation that a lot of put in a lot of them that you're going to be
in eat with the family but yeah but I never saw I don't know I don't know I don't legally do that um cuz I mean I heard of that in L that you can only have one Kitchen in the house I don't where where's that written down why can't you have six kitchens in your house if you want to that's precisely
the point that's why the planning board's here this evening in llo the a lot of the Portuguese have a summer kitchen and a winter kitchen right yep or a using kitchen and a look at a kitchen you know
yeah yeah so okay well why we closea and then we'll start chatting with the planning board and that's one of our topics to talk about I mean I think I think it's a good law I mean oh I think it's great I think
if you if you can do it um I don't I wonder if maybe you could limit it to not having a whole bunch of kids in the new place because then they're going to use the school department and you know going to cost
the town more money but I don't know I don't know that some probably some Freedom issues there probably some questions that should be answered I make a motion that we close our regularly scheduled meeting um February
for the zba February 18th U at 5:30 to by 6 o' to open the meeting theint meeting with the do I have a second second all in
favor on that I here we go so I don't have a quum okay to open my part but I can sit and discussion any decision yeah
um one things the two things over over the years that Jim and I talked about um is um the special this is before we get into the apartment that's a longer conversation um is the special
permit for um an oversized garage right now in the it's 1,250 Square ft um and a lot of the hearings that we've had are on oversized
garages um and I think Jim is here and you tell me said that he's here on large much larger than I feel comfortable with um I think Jim and don't hold me to it it's probably 2500 or 3,000 foot garage
um not that you can build up without a special permit okay I'm much more comfortable at 1,500 or 1750 um I think we need to up it because there's a lot it seems the garages are
around 1500 square ft and why should they have to come for a special permit and so next extra money that they have to pay an extra process but on the other hand going too large
um it doesn't mean that they can't build an extra large garage if they want to build a 2500 or 3,000 for garage they just have to come for a special permit I think you going a little bit higher weeds out a lot of the unnecessary
hearings um but I'm also concerned in a residential area if someone wants to put up a 3,000 foot garage is that there's some places they look very out of place very out of place and if it's residential is there you
should that put possible business going in there that it's not zoned for so forth but I think so that's just my personal opinion and I think Jim and I had talked about we can find a meeting of the minds on that other people from
their board someone out there someone's out there I think we're still in the first I know there's a couple of them in town that really look out of place yeah one is Rocky a Year's old garage a beautiful building but it really looks
out a place in that neighborhood luckily enough it's tucked away the same at the same token it's still okay and maybe that be an acreage requirement if you want a bigger structure that's why I was thinking maybe if you're on an acre L bigger get
may could be aul with the last side yeah I think I think current one is to I only on the board for what two years now maybe and um I think we approved almost everyone right and we asked them you going to perform business in here and they know off they go yeah
and I think we to go larger I think we need to go larger I think we just have to decide what's a comfortable uh square foot size but I do like the idea of a 10 acre right lot versus the
standard 40,000 sare foot and having you know 3,000 4000 bigger than your bigger than my house the planning board develop and refine those rules and I think it's a great idea that if you have a
40,000 maybe you can only handle the smaller size uh accelerated building but on a larger lot it would not be unreasonable to have a 3,000 foot building for example yeah so that's some of the things that we're we're based with on a daily basis so to speak um the
I think in general um the uh Table Three is fundament mentally the problem that we have the most problems with and not so much in terms of setb expor sare for LS
but hello there sorry I was just talking about yeah go ahead um so some of the uh use requirements we need uh we need clarification on some of the definitions for example and uh in particular storage
facilities as you uh are well aware we have several storage facilities in town but the definition of what storage facilities are is Laing in many ways so we would ask the new planning board to look into clarifying that language in
terms of what permitted uses would be or adding some definition to what storage facilities are um by getting back to just before you enter Jim uh we're talking about the garage is the second auxiliary buildings on on properties and we were suggesting
that uh the planning Board review U increasing it on on basically by U size of lot there was a 40,000 ft lot you could have them up to a certain size beyond that you have another size
might but those were some of the things that we variances to are special permit for and uh it would be very helpful if we could review that certainly for garages
that is on our list the other the other thing that Ron brought up was uh mentioning the new change in general laws regarding um apartments and law apartments and so forth and clearly our bylaws are in conflict with with state law so that's
going to have to be a priority to resolve that conflict um it's no longer conflict and supersede whatever local but I think the on are already in town are they automatically approved
know made legal that that that would be a question for Town Council yeah I would say yes I I would too but do they need to maybe just apply for something and get again say it's approved I couldn't I couldn't so the whole issue is that we
have to revise our our zoning B laws to comply with Mass General law now and the sooner that happens better because it puts the building inspector or zoning officer uh in a difficult position well so so basically all we
need to do is take the excerpt from the Mass General AR and plug it int insert but and that's the easy way out and and the reason why I wanted to have a joint meeting tonight was to discuss that a
little bit based on do we want to do we want to modify that in other words 900 squ Now's the Time to do it right 900 square FT 900 square ft is the threshold threshold is the threshold is
the the the maximum right do we want to take this opportunity to integrate inlaw Apartments which would be the same thing attached and put the definition in there so it's not
a what are they using uh it's affordable housing what well kind of but it's putting a different description on it with the building code requireing to do things for multi uh dwelling unit
multi dwelling but doesn't that separation is different but isn't separation different right you don't want to refer this to mul no but what I'm saying is n so the state's saying 900 square ft
right do we want to increase that so so 900 squ ft if you're onun a 40,000 ft piece of property do we want to adjust that so that if you're on 5 acres do we do we want to say 1,200 square ft you
can go up to 12200 Square isn't the max 900 isn't the law says Max is 900 squ ft think that or half of whatever half the size half the size there's a stipulation there is a stipulation so I don't know that we can increase it well they're
setting the basic the minimum we just can't over it we can't oh so we want to look at that what I want to do is get away from this nonsense when people are doing things and it's
it's causing a rift with the building department and without any recourse in other words let's spell it out and let them if they're going to do it let let's let them do it and do it correctly why are we why are we fighting
something that there seems to be a need in town so the one up on Phillips was a good example they were permitted to do what he was doing a new building inspector came in and pulled a rug out from under oh that was and and made a mess out of the whole
thing I I personally and it's not it's not up to us what is up to us is that if we think there's some that need to be made we need to get an article and get it to the town let the town decide M but if it makes sense especially so so the
state says it does make sense right that we're allowing uh families to take care of in the law and and we should have the copy of it in front of us um because it does refer to um remember reading it
carefully that it can be for family member or in-law it refers to it as an in possible in-law work so I don't know that we need to break it out so so think so think of it this way it's for an in-law partner to take
care of your your aging parents all right what ha what happens when when that's over with now you've got a dwelling an Adu out there it's it's not attached it's sitting there what are they going to do with it
tear it down they going to be required to tear it down they can't rent it but somebody else use it so so we're in a predicament where of course they're going to rent it out to somebody else yeah and but I didn't see the law saying that they could no the new law the new
law those restrictions where a lot of towns had those in effect before and that's the old laws and the new law is saying that yeah it can either be for an in-law so you know I think we should be in previous years people have put in
in-law apartments in the inlaws whether they were for the in-laws or not in-law apartments were put in um sometimes you know following the right process coming before the boards and sometimes not and then if the in-law uh or the Elder
passes away they rent it if they I mean it's just and now so then you have you know we've had cases where they they have an in-law apartment they sell the house and the the realtor advertis is for sale with an in-law apartment it's not really legal in the past in the past
the in the past so that's why specific family clear that up not the next owner and there was some Unwritten bylaws stating that you couldn't have outside access you had to access to the and I always asked about that because where I
never saw it written exactly you want me to read some of the in the the the was never follow up on the zoning what happened with it after the it was granted so this is from section 8 of
chapter 150 of the act of 2024 and U must maintain a separate entrance either directly from the outside or through an entry hall or Corridor shared with the principal dwelling sufficient to meet the requirement the state building code for safe egress be either no larger than
half the gross floor area of the principal dwelling or 900 square ft whichever is smaller and the third bullet point is meet local Municipal restrictions including but not limited to additional size additional size restrictions and or restrictions or
prohibit prohibitions on short-term rental if the city or town decides to impose these the infinite wisdom of our legislature so um one of my concerns is in that is when we we are looking at
updating La law um and we also provide Clarity for people so say you have uh probably an older home new homes the septics are bu larger than you know if you're building a three-bedroom house
the septics support a four bedroomroom um but some of your older homes that may not be the case and one of the concerns I have is that you know I I'm all for this and however language we include with that is the infrastructure to
support it you know such a septic water those types of things kick in automatically okay so so fine setbacks setbacks will remain the same right 20 off the sides 15 off 40 off the front so it's a given by
building codes that it they would have to that would still have they'd still have to comply and the Board of Health would have to enforce would have to enforce their of it fine so that would take that stuff out
of Y good um but I think we should still look at it from a different perspective like with the the um accessory buildings got a 12200 ft maximum without without St perit we haven't
denied one yet and and the the kick the kicker is 1,200 sare ft 12 125 whatever you bet you we go back too far
so you can put a 3,000 ft structure if it's attached so if you so if you wanted to do that put a little connector a breeze weight whatever you want to call it you can put 3,000 for you can put whatever you want it it leans it leans
to the the person trying to do it trying to skirt the law so why not just allow to to let's let's bup I'm not saying 3,50 I'm saying 12200 ft is nothing for no especially today people with toys and
stuff that they're trying to to keep on I'd rather see it under a roof than hanging out in front of the the dwellings and and but also it is if we increase it and I I agree with you Jimma about increasing it you know because for
a while some our meetings were all about you know the 125 um is you know is how far we go up because it doesn't mean and you say if they want to build a
4,000 foot um well Barn's different but it well that's had to come before us um they just have to get a special permit do you know what I mean if we're not saying no to larger but we need a process and I do like some checks and balances because I do worry about what
happens in residential neighborhoods with large Barns and structures and then all of a sudden you see businesses maybe not that owner comes in but another owner comes in and then the quality of life in in a neighborhood gets impacted that's my that's my only concern that we have
checks and balances that's all I'm open to it you're you're open to it oh yeah so so how about if the planning board puts puts something together yeah and before it goes to uh before the town yeah we get your blessing yeah I I I
would like to present so that we're all on the same page we we we all vote and agree upon that this is something that's good for the town I don't want I don't want to present something that no I think have unified front certainly and I
I would appreciate that you know if you folks work on some some drafts out send it to us for think that' be great and you can look at it I mean the whole point here is that clearly we need to do something right and we have address as I
mentioned too I don't know if you were here for definitions for example expand uh definitions on storage spaces for example clarify that so that it makes sense so here's the problem with that and and we are working on
that you can't clarify you can't it's a business zone right you can't you can't come up with every possible you can't how about what's not allowed we're going to we're going to
work we got to fix it because this is ridiculous if someone wants to put up a storage you're in a business zone why would you deny that yeah it's not written in it it's not it doesn't specifically say or a restaurant a particular type yeah if it's some business that's quite you know somehow we've got to clean that
up so that again these are by special permits most of them anyway that if it's not detrimental if it's a business that's not detrimental to the to the abutters then why would we deny it and if it's in his own business yeah yeah I
I think that good example and that's really the purview of the planning board do it on site plan approval that way you can control parking and lighting and signage and all that other business and that should not have anything to do with a with a special permit from the CBA in
my view no I agree right but somehow we've got to someone comes in with something else well it doesn't call it out it doesn't say that that specific business can be used can't store that item yeah we've got to clean it up so that it's it's more generic that it's
allowed by special permit and if it's something is not manufacturing it's not an industrial right we do have that in town that's where it belongs but a business if it doesn't call out a dentist office or a you can't have it well that doesn't make sense these these
bylaws are a mess in a lot of different ways we just we were just awarded a grant by the way oh good to to help right 10 $110,000 I think from from the state to help this up a little bit for ourselves and we're not just going to go willy-nilly we're going to see what
other communities are doing certainly to to impose that but I think let us get some drafts together and then we'll have another joint meeting we can send them out ahead of time we' be happy to give you some
comments on propos language it would relieve some of the issues that we have to deal with in terms of granting special permits and uh uh reading into what does this word really mean uh we shouldn't have to
interpret uh no AG I mean that's our job but we should have like to that exent yeah the storage units um by fill yeah it's a business on why couldn't you what that doesn't doesn't
make any sense whatsoever site plan review maybe it makes some sense that what kind of storage units are you putting in you want to screen them from the public maybe they're not attractive those are things we can work out through site I think the site plan review process is the best way to handle uh all
of these uh situations like that because now you have the authority to apply some restrictions to protect uh you know the the face the appearance and and whatever and that's the best way to handle it my so with that being said we we've had
a couple come before us uh in the business Zone somebody wants to to sell um skid stairs conu SK construction equipment uhhuh it doesn't call it out
specifically for you know uh excavators or skid steers but yet it doesn't doesn't say you can't do that right see that's where the definitions um is you need to within certain amount of
Reason Define what the division means in terms of a service or a a product that you're going to sell or something like that but on the other hand um from a former building inspector and Zoning officer view is that um makes it
difficult for the U permit granting Authority for the building permit uh to interpret what it means and then you have this fallback language if it's not it's prly permitted that it's prohibited so that's where it gets you know little gnarly it it gets a little gnarly but
Technic legally we're probably at a disadvantage because it says it's a business own our bylaws in in many cases have not held up legally yeah um but we've got we've we've we've got some good people that going work with us
on it um these folks are on the sh the old shap out are you do you already speak with them we haven't said anything in yeah so am I going to give them the floor what they're trying to do there puts us it puts us in a dilemma on
allowing it okay so I'm Marilyn an con my husband Jamie and I bought the Chateau Mr chapolin two years ago um it's been really exciting and we're really happy to be in grany um we have several eight at this point long-term
tenants at the property and their businesses um and it's our job to support them and to help them Thrive um and to bring wonderful people to the community of BR and to see the wonderful stuff that we
have to offer there and all of our businesses um so we came to the planning board last week with um a request to sell outdoor agricultural structures little sheds green houses and um saunas
chicken C you know little and um so that's what we would like to do um we are in the business district we're in the mixed use overlay as well so I know that um it seems like the perfect place
for it um and we'd really love to be able to do it to again bring traffic to the property to help support our businesses and our tenants um and we do have thank you so much we put a little packet together um with a picture an
aerial view so that you could see what that why did that come to us I I I'm asking so so okay this is this is an in this is an informal but I'm glad they came yeah no I too but because it's so zoning said it's not
called out and it our zoning also says you're not supposed to be um advertising or or or or sh or showing goods and Wares so years that street
Supply was there and had all their sheds outside in the parking lot really or my father had stuff out in front of his store yep really really and and it continues the the grain store
does it y right y um the garden mark grass so so what are we doing yeah so what are we doing and so zoning code enforcement right not knocking him no but he's saying it's not allowed you can't show
your wares up and so he said that to them yes fundament hence the reason why they came to us last week so technically speaking um The Building Commissioner did the right thing okay all right not to
cast any dispersions on anyone but by doing that it allows the applicant your here to apply to the zva for clarification um and that's the procedure that's supposed to be followed but you're entirely correct in that it
shouldn't have to be done in the first place we so yeah I agree with everything you just said that's that it clean it up we need to be more business friendly in this to absolutely I agree yeah and that's a great piece of property and what's the what's I look at it from a
perspective what's going to hurt the to it's going to it's going to benefit the with more traffic and I don't mean busy traffic I mean more traffic to our other businesses that are looking for more support I agree with you 100% so these are the types of things we
need to clean up so that it can be streamlined to prove per if it wasn't them it was some maybe it's somebody else looking at that piece of property to come to Grandy that that it's for sale and they don't want to deal with this can be told you can't do what they
want to do and then you couple that with no sewer no water through other things so and so with that being said because we don't have an infrastructure we can't be too choosy on what types of businesses that we allow in town that we're going to reap the
benefits from we need to cater to what our infrastructure will support to a degree yeah but for I'm going back to The Building Commissioner so what is the difference quite trly of um whether it's
Class Grass uh or um country gra showing the rars out in front and that in that being allowed I I don't I don't see the difference so I'm just I'm going I'm I'm going to defend the code enforcement
pleas he's not looking for trouble he's not looking to say he's not going to class grass and saying you can't be doing this but when something new comes to his to to his to his office then that's when he says well now this is on my watch
yeah and it and his interpretation of the definition go see zba he's not telling me you can't he's telling go see plan or zba technically giving the applicant a way out Poss all right
and but is that the right use of the zba no no we that's why we need to clean this stuff up and until we get it cleaned up that's what we I think that's what we're going to have to do zba is going to have to look at it and say yay or nay or it's a joint meeting you don't want to say yay
or nay unless unless the uh planning board Buys in on the side well variances we can only give on demential you can't give variances on uses I've been told can't give a
variance on use only give a variance on dimensional what it really amounts to so you're talking speci we have back from town Town Council let me clarify that if I can all right and that is that technically is correct with the exception that part of the job is is to
interpret the definitions but Town Council has clarified what our role is understand fully with the LA is yes but uh the question really is is that we do any clarification on definitions right all right that's
number one um because um that alone would eliminate a great deal of confusion conflict and everything else um what was I I lost my train of thought yeah I I started off with the variance was going to be dimensional because
um that's what I that is our dictate for the CBA bearance is dimensional but the what I was trying to say on that there are actually three parts to what we do special perance Varian and interpretation definition clarification
for what the language U should mean so with that being said something something like this with the with the sheds how how would you how would you if it was a formal um request how would you deal
with that so the question and let's use this as an example for storage sheds for example okay um my understanding that um the
applicants trying to put in the storage uh facilities uh the zoning bylaws um would indicate that you would have to have a site plan approval for that whole project just like a site plan approval would be probably likely for this this
application and then the question would come down to not a variance but a clarification and definitions so using storage as an example it says storage facilities the question from the inspector was that it's not a permitted
use all right which is not not has nothing to do with a variance or nothing to do with a special perit so it was a question of interpreting what the the the term storage meant all right so that's the third part does so the
question now becomes what is the what is the use that the building inspector is saying does not agree with what's being proposed here do you know in this particular it's it's uh
display where's outside okay and does that that that's correct that's what he told you that's correct all right so what do we have on on the use so I just so I understand like
within the past year I know the mini truck dealer had G through and then approved those are corre products for for sale in our in our parking lot in your parking lot correct and they trying to connect the the difference that's a very good question
we did bring that up last week and you guys did permit that long long ago no all power did the applic are the applicants selling tractors have a special permit for each car I understand they've been around since all power 7
not not these applicants but one of our tenants one of your tenants so they apply for a special permit for selling his cars they got their license from the board of Select for class two or whatever it is correct selling see I I to me that's wees and goods
that's Wares Goods but I think in that chart didn't it call Out Automotive yeah I think it was about five maybe a little longer years ago uh at the driving range the previous owner wanted to put some cars out there
he s classic cars and he was told he couldn't do it I don't know where that where that's I don't know it was planning or it was from the it wasn't us the select board not one I think I think the select board
or somebody didn't want to issue that's what he wanted when he bought the place he was going to he he sells expensive classic cars and he was told he's going to do one or two at a time can't do
it so where he get the squares of good I know that's I'm trying to go outdoor display of goods and Wares really that's interesting now what would your what would your interpretation of that be goods and Wares that would be something
that you would normally store inside and not so what comes to mind here is a Farm Stand is a Farm Stand yeah all right so that's goods and wees is it not cuz I'm sure there's no definition I didn't think so I was going to put money
on but that doesn't even give us granting Authority it's no across the board yeah it doesn't even give us the chance so the question is com definition so says no no no no no trying
to find Goods but yet consistency comes into play so we're in consistent clearly what's what's what's been allowed e either by right or just by looking the other way but even under
3.5 .19 outdoor display of goods and wees cb8 does it even have right nobody has Authority anything he shouldn't send it to us cuz we had no Authority but neither do they no but the
thing is the question would be the third part of the ZB and that would be to Define what goods and wees are and and uh so for example my question would be how do you have a used car LW we have certainly used vehicle uh permits issu from
town goods and Wares I mean that's that's unfortunately a job of the zba to interpret what goods and we are does he so that's called out specific out exactly I don't think in my opinion
goods and wees doesn't it doesn't include sheds it wouldn't include Vehicles it wouldn't include anything that would normally be seen outside goods and wees would be if I'm a department store or having my product
out on the sidewalk when meals uh you know just clothing racks and stuff you know like yeah that would be my interpretation bring them out that could very well be a good Common Sense interpretation of what goods and awes are so then in this case um not that I'm
committing the zoning board of appeals to any decision here um but if an applicant came to us and said they wanted to have uh sheds well let's use as an example um is that good Z wees and then
now come to the zoning board of appeals to say whether or not sheds the display of sheds is a good goods and wees it's a difficult question because you know your interpretation of putting you know racks of clothing out there that are normally sold inside of a
department store might be one definition but it may not be the entire definition so you have to put that in your list and it is but you wouldn't expect to see The Sheds inside of a building I agree that absolutely doesn't that that doesn't make common
sense but again that would not be granting variance nor is it granting a special permit that is defining what the term goods and wears includes or doesn't include and the zoning board of appeals has the authority to do that because we're basically we're the judicial
branch you're the legisl well actually you're the executive branch and the town meeting is the this the U legislature approving that and we're here to Define we're the court basically right so we Define it and then where
does it go from there yeah I'm still I'm still really hesitant because we don't have the authority in the bylaws I know what you're saying I don't we have a call the Town Council to get and we need Clarity on this because we need to get to protect we need to get our stuff
together so we're not we also have a problem too because it does take time for you folks to prepare their stuff they sign for you have to have public hearings we have to have three or one or something like that and before it goes before town meeting one one before town meeting okay there's a timeline for all
and it goes to the select board the select board has to write the article and then it goes to a to end right so it takes a it's quite a bit of time that's why if we're going to do it let's group let's yeah let's take a good stab and see how much of the stuff we can clean up without
dragging you know taking a year to put this all together and let's face it our bylaws it's a living document we should be updating it as as necessary oh absolutely absolutely oh I said that in
1990 when I was a gold Tre no no I agree with you and it needs to in this time it needs to be done in such a way that gives us leeway yeah because you can't call out every reasonable reason exactly it's and it's it's not done by one
person it's done by Boards they look at it they they discuss it they and they vote on it you know there's things like subdivisions there certain things we can wave right if we're if we're uh requested to do so and that's why we need some Town
Council advice on yeah just on the granting Authority so that being is one thing I never want waste outli timein you know and um because um but yeah talk to Brian about that um
and you right about 1,200 I what was that I'm not saying it twice um and one of the things I also feel strongly about is that we have limited Zoning for businesses and that
we should be supported our businesses and um the sh Harmony I mean us grow up here know the different versions of it all through the years but it really can be a wonderful main state for 202 driving in in
attraction and um they're maintaining it nicely it's it's not a nice sore it was several years ago it it used to be in ier for a long time it was and then you know remember when it was a restaurant after the restaurant closed the flams
yeah um that was intentional his part to close it or to make an ice to make an ice well that yeah that was you have the rest of the V at that time you had the trailer park and all that stuff and an antique
Place yeah I remember all um but you know I think we should be supportive of our business Community you know whenever we can and having an attractive kind of go to destination that businesses there you know I think it's a great
idea Bel Town um they have a display of sheds up there right off looks good it's kind of cool see some especially some of the newer stuff that's oh yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah especially some of the newer you know ships that are out today
that look more like green houses they're pretty cool and it's nicer to like offer somebody a local place to go instead of sending everybody to Home Depot in huge box stores and keep you know local business and and most of these sheds they go in the backyard it cleans up
yards store their stuff away so too I'm in favor of it I'm just trying to see how we can get get through this without taking a year or eight months to get through some of this
minutia can we push ourselves we have a May board meeting I mean I'm a May board meeting add on uh town meeting probably not because of because of the problem of having have uh public hearings and if you've got several
things that you're we can't push this thing through on just one article because no we have to do CP you want one to drag the rest of them down and I don't know that I want to do a special town meeting because then it makes it more important looking than it is you know I mean do you know what I
mean for challenges I mean these are kind of common sense update SE do I yeah there's no way I I don't think there's any way to get that done from there let's see what Town Council has to say in the meantime the meantime we'll be working
on trying to clean up some of the bylaws definitions um and if there's anything you got specifically you want us to address send it to us and I do think we need to address that the 900
foot affordable housing just that even if for now our bylaws just simply align with the law well we're going to take the ins just just simple as that we've talked about then if we need a
Nuance it over the years we can Nuance it but you know we don't want to be well we don't want to have the town challenge that we're not doing that by someone yeah agre what was your timeline on trying to
push this through you wanted it the spring right yesterday CU if I have to wait till the fall I've missed the whole whole season will these be all pre-built or would they're all pre-built they just come in and get tucked back along the the grass line at the back of I know you
got one out in the back right now yeah that was for the the Christmas trees to keep warm I made the bigger one there was wasn't there a bigger one with a porch on it and everything oh oh that's the that's the food stand like a f yeah yeah yeah but they'll be um to the right you know where the Little Red Shed is
all along the back there it's really beautiful I think it'll be beautiful and nice addition I know it will let's see what Town Council tells us all right yeah um yeah because I'm not sure they'll
embrace your interpretation I just I know I very first thing the vard of appeals right any person agree by the reason of his inability to obtain a permit or enfor enforcement action from any administrative officer provisions of
chapter 48 right all right then it goes on to talk about special permits and variances right so yes by defining the word I'll try to I'll me
thank I'll do my best okay but yeah I just want to be careful that we don't waste any applicants time I agree right I mean if we can address it this way fine I'm just not sure you're going to talk to bers see if
he wants to have a sit down yeah I have to go see Chris clud over there so if I see Brian um I won't do a stand along with them I'll just say need if I can't somebody else can yeah yeah yeah I'll text you once you
know if I catch him tomorrow we have anything else we wanted to that's why we're here well thank you thanks for taking that thank you no thank you thank you we'd like to say thanks like everybody is so
positive so supportive it's just like one sentence messes everything up on paper we appreciate all the support much Oh no you're welcome the help and thank you you know and we just want to make sure we have the authority be a to do
what we need to do um and um and that's why we paid Town Council so we paid Town Council to defend not to do our job I know I know big
difference thanks everybody I know you will nice to meet you all okay thank you good luck thank you see yeah thank