All right. Right. I'm opening the grand plan board meeting April 13th, 2026 at 5:30 a.m. Next on the agenda, minutes from February 11th, March
we have um Angel Did you find a little bit when you said I think you said the other day? >> I I only have the family. >> Okay. >> This is the one you sent earlier. Yeah, >> that was the man
estate. Okay. I will entertain a motion to approve the February. Make a motion. Everybody write the evidence review if we have.
>> Go for it. >> Nina, did you review this ear? >> No. Earlier. Okay. >> Sorry. >> Okay. See? There we go. I'm second.
>> I'll make a motion to approve the item 9 uh meeting minutes. >> I'll second this motion. >> Any further discussion? >> No. >> All in favor? I I
approved >> correspondence if any we think we can. Um we have just a couple of announcements of public hearings from abuing communities. Um preliminary site plans for a senior
center in Chip. Uh South Hadley for a one-story office building on Granley Road. Proposed amendment to the zoning bylaw regarding signs in the
town of South Avenue. Um, another uh public hearing in the town of South Avenue for the South Avenue electric light department admin offices and then notes a decision for uh zoning
board appeal decisions and then a um similarly in Ammerst method. are really going to be interested in a later date uh their sign by law.
>> Awesome. >> Makes sense. >> Yeah. >> What kind of changes that they might have made? >> Okay. Uh next up, new business uh approval for the ANR East State Street.
>> Yep. The ANR here. You need to step up. >> Yeah, that should roll this up so I can explain. building green. No.
>> An auction. You guys are doing public auction. >> Yeah. >> So, basically, as you can see, it's all wet in here. >> So, for me, there's a house in here in
case I need to combine properties. Oh sh >> anyway the house the way it's staked right now. >> See that >> is I literally you drew a line 50 ft from a 50ft buffer
zone. So if you have a 50 foot buffer that follow this way my house is pegged right now did the whole survey for this but I have a whole platform
in here it's 24 by 45 that's like an inch basically to the wetlands here so that's the only size house I can put in there the maximum size house and septic would be
right over here. >> Okay. So, the only way the company put on the spot is by combining these two lots make one single building. That's it. Actually, most of this is
so weapons larger bags. >> 50 ft out of this wetland >> 50 building. Oh, this wetland this wetland delineation on the side is your problem.
>> You can't fit two houses. >> Yep. >> Well, they changed the laws. It used to be 100 ft to the septic. So, now my septic's going to go here. That could be 50 ft from the wetlands. >> So, that's what >> disappointment. We don't care. >> Just the way you're here just to do the
AR how you how you can figure that. That's why this is the endorsement. So you don't tell you, >> right? I just I'm just trying to explain to you how I what I can do. >> Just trying to figure out where box. >> So Cindy's is right here.
>> I'm right over here. You see a lot that's been cleared. I don't know. >> So Cindy's is here. >> Yowski is here. >> I mean, it's pretty wise. We're just we're just here to stuff that we >> should
I'm not asking for more. I'm asking for less. And it's worth this property quite >> honestly. I got all my other contributions. So it's been legitimately done. >> We have any questions?
I'll entertain a motion to approve the ANR. >> Make a motion to approve the ANR. I'm finding the two lots into one. >> Second. >> I'll second the motion to approve the
ANR State. >> Further discussion? >> All in favor? >> I good. You know how this works with grass purposes as far as this type of land as opposed to >> nothing.
>> It might affect the value I would say for valley water. >> Right. Right. >> Did you have an extra? So we need four plus the >> pink one for the other. Oh, all right. >> Today,
I think we need to use a special. >> Thank you. I'm not sure really. >> I know he's really loud. Yeah, beautiful. >> I'll come up with something. >> Yeah. Yeah.
>> This is crazy. a lot of wood. >> It's actually a see back maybe grassy back there. It's nice and flat. >> Yeah. kind of get some maybe
so you can kind of see a little bit out. Sorry. >> Have you done the whole video yet? >> Last step. I just want to get it all cleared out so I get to my head. >> Right over there might be tough.
>> Her work, >> does it? >> Yeah, it's all stand. >> A lot of houses are really high. >> Yeah, the water's the water's high. >> April's high. It's like 2 ft. >> Get forged and fill. >> Yeah, it's going to be for sure. That's going to be an expense that the well and stuff.
>> That's the drawback. >> Yeah. to build them. But >> there's a welding. >> 32. Oh, >> right. >> Yeah, maybe.
How you doing? >> Yeah, >> everybody keeps asking me to do I do some private stuff, but >> I got requests for that place.
>> You guys did something for this brand. >> Oh, you did. >> Coming forward to another, you know. That happens all very upset. >> She came in and she >> well
literally right next to her. >> I don't know today. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I don't know. Bring everything. >> Those are all signed. >> Yeah,
>> these are all signs. So, he's got >> I think he's walking away. 10 copies. >> Yeah. No, he just gets one, >> right? I can't tell everyone the same. >> I always forget. What do they get? Is it four?
>> Four and one. The town gets four and one. >> Four in one. Who gets the rest? >> He just missed that one. If that's left, >> is that the Is that it? >> Yeah. >> So, there's four of these. >> Yes. >> Okay.
>> Two, three, four, and a myar. Okay. I think all of the copies in town. >> Thanks so much. Okay. Annual reporting over the board. >> Yes. So I gave the board um a draft of
the annual report. >> It's for it's for it is I'm taking a meeting public hearings. Just a general cause. Do you want the black dress? So you say first and do after
>> which trouble That's the best you can come up with for stats as far as approvals. >> I just going off past templates, but if there's other information you like search
Yeah. different. >> I'm good. >> Okay, >> discuss an act on previous decision for 161 West State Street. What is this all about? So, I believe both you and Melissa got a
also copied on this email from Kathy. Um, because public safety responded to the approved version. Um, let me read the notes from the police chief and from staff.
Um, police chief's comment. As long as there's v visibility and no traffic hazards created by people stopping quickly and looking, I'm good with the new plan. I guess that follows this. This is the email um that Kathy
sent to me and also um Jim and Melissa. Good morning. Thanks for the agenda, Ken. Uh Brett Merrill met with the fire chief, building commissioner and chief of police and went to get a copy of the new site plan which is before you hold right there. >> Sure.
>> Why did you meet with the those three entities? >> We um after we left here, I thought I was under the understanding that it goes right to the clerks to get stamp for the 20-day appeal. We waited our 20 days. I followed back up with uh Kathy and at
which point I found out um that there had been no movement on it and there was no stamp and I said why and uh she said that because this had never been approved for this many cars before. So she's concerned and then she got the
building inspector um and he was concerned as well. So he said, "Well, I'm going to need to talk to the both chiefs at Liquin." I said, "Absolutely." you know, we've always been accommodating. So, they met down there and um I think basically the uh
inspector said I'd feel more comfortable if it was more like 15 cars instead of the 20. And we've just been trying to get it to the finish line. So, I I just being accommodating, I said we'll make that concession. Okay. Well, first of all, that's not their decision to make
nor it's not Kathy's. It's not with all due respect to and and to the police chief, especially fire chief and building inspector, this is not their call. This was the board's decision. Now, if I recall, if you had more than 20 parking places there, what you're
showing, what I'm seeing tonight is you're not showing all the parking places around the corner either. >> No. So, right. And then so we have it around the corner and we also I don't know if any the new plans there is yeah he made a copy of it all.
>> So I also I made sure to put a paragraph on there stating that you have approved how many cars I also I also re labelled to show that we have eight spaces inside the garage that we talked about and all. So
>> I mean are you okay with reducing those? Well, I mean, hang on. Yeah. Before we go there, let me just just let me just >> the uh the other thing the other thing we added in there is the building inspector then said, "Well, you don't have um the handicap spot, so I I
reabeled it, which is going to be repainted cuz we're resealing." So, that went there. So, that's So, that's fine. So, so what we did was we approved you up to 20 >> cars >> for sale
>> for your operation. >> The select board issues the license on how many you can sell, >> right? >> Based on and typically it's based on what we say you have space for. M so I still stand by that you you've got 20
plus uh what you say 2127 you've got you got like 30 spaces plus >> so by putting 20 cars there as far as this planning board is concerned it doesn't affect the other operation
>> so we're approving that and and as far as I'm concerned it stands if this if the select board only wants to issue you 15 uh a permit for 15 cars for sale, that's fine. I from my perspective and this this board's perspective, I don't care
if that car that's sitting here is for sale or ready for service. >> Correct. >> And and and I did make the the thing that saying that overnight there's not going to sound be 20 parts for sale. I I said we're very accommodating. We're going to roll into it >> and it's just Yeah. And so my point was
to have you come back again in a year saying we want more. We need more. >> We're saying you're good up to 20 spaces issue. >> Along with the other operation agree I think there was just conflict. >> Yeah. I was wondering >> unless anybody has anything else to add
to this. So >> yeah, we're just sorry. We're just trying to confuse the process that we were under the impression that didn't sign off on it. >> They get 20 days later we're So how so this time around just because I don't want to cuz we already want
time. How do I get the stamp tomorrow? Basically like to get the time. >> I'm going to make a phone call tomorrow >> because nothing's been nothing's going to change tonight. I'll make the phone call tomorrow. >> And and again this is not this was not a special permit.
>> It was >> it was it a special permit? >> Correct. Yes. Okay. So, so, so then the butters were were notified. This this wasn't just a site plan. >> No, because used to auto sales were right. >> Yeah.
>> So, so the butters were notified and for us to change something here tonight. After that, we couldn't do that anyway. If anybody takes issue with it, then the clock starts ticking and anybody that takes issue with it has a 20-day appeal period. >> Yeah.
So, >> it only passes once it's been stamped. They have it stamped. So, they're behind the a getting based on what we decide that this needed the building inspector's approval. >> No, it doesn't.
>> Right. So, then go into that. So I just again like >> with all due respect to the building departments >> they had a they had a a chance when this was originally submitted
>> and we usually pay comp there was no comp whether why they didn't >> I couldn't I couldn't tell you and why they were sent down there to to look at something that um after we had already ruled on it is it's weighed
something burnt a month too without getting correct. >> So unless somebody on the board has it takes issue with it >> then our decision stays and we got >> I appreciate I'll make a phone call tomorrow see that
>> thank you. >> Thank you. >> Thank you guys. Appreciate it. Good luck. I'm sorry that happened. >> It's not. >> Okay. Next up, >> work plan. >> Well, there was also Kathy put under
administrative. There's two applications here. I don't know if this is for the board. Generally, we don't I don't typically tell the board like I other than there's going to be a forthcoming application after I had a chance to look at it. So, this is a good thing. I'm
seeing something um and I'll respond to a request from the public that's asking about a uh what the permitting process is for a um secondary garage workshop for personal use. That's 34x 48, which
is a special this idea with the board. >> Right. So, that's >> one thing. I'm seeing another thing here um which was not part of because I talked to Cab this afternoon which is not part of um anything that you've seen
but I think there's a proposed sign for Phillips maybe. Yeah, if you want to pass that to the table. >> Oh, this one for ZA. I don't have no no context in this other
than seeing if there's no on gas prices. >> Yeah. Thank Yeah, there's no application that came with this. So I'm just open right in
front of you which shows a significant hoping for a nice restaurant for a nice restaurant. Um, >> so I guess I'll just follow up with with Kathy and Tom and Right. I'm sorry if it's just replacing uh
>> so the way this typically works is if they're replaced in the sun, it goes to the the code person for a permit. And if he reviews it and says it's it doesn't meet the criteria
or it's it it doesn't meet the the new sign bylaws, then it goes then it goes to us. I have a feeling that it probably will go to you just because of I don't know if it's an internally lit
sign. Um there's an obvious thing. >> So I Yeah, it's >> it was looks like it was internally lit prior just >> maybe. But I think the question here too is certainly often times if a sign has
been not used for a certain amount of time then that kind of >> unless there's a determination that says it can be replaced in kind. But at the same time, I don't know how long has it been like this, >> right? Well, >> too long.
>> So, the likelihood to meet >> Yeah. >> It would need to meet the current sign by heard. >> So, skate street. So, so again, they file an application for
assignment. >> Mhm. >> If code enforcement decides it doesn't meet the the criteria, then he can tell them no. Or he can he can forward to planning work for special.
>> Yeah. I wonder if she was this is an attempt to just automatically say they're going through a a permitting process which I think >> then we need an application. >> Right. Exactly. So I need to state why it's why it's before us that it's large
or it's internally. >> All right. >> Yeah. I I literally just opened this to share with you that to Jim to the chair's point. It is just we're waiting for an application. help you before the planning board
>> because the thing is when they when they go to to pull the permit >> unless they already realize >> then then it gets denied >> why is why why are you denying a permit >> well because it's
>> you know whatever >> oh well then we'll read this up otherwise you got to go through the processing >> they need to make Okay. So, we'll collect those for you as well. We'll um make sure that goes with
the sign that we >> um so I I want to introduce you to Evan. I think he some >> Evan is part of the uh >> so as as the board knows we're doing the
uh zoning privately with the zoning uh committee zoning bylaw committee >> and Evan has been working on doing kind of housekeeping efforts. So I invited him here because he's been looking at the bylaws as much as I have and is
already turning around some, you know, some of that work and providing considerations to the committee. Um, as Jim has mentioned in the past, uh, the board is and I think with with
conversations with the board, the board is um, you know, wanting to move forward with some of said amendments. I think the amendments that will be presented eventually are probably housekeeping, not really contentious.
um but I think they're worthwhile to discuss at the board. So, of the the various um identified zoning amendments, I think through the past seven years that I've been in Rivertown, um before you, I shared with you um both
the conversation about medical centers cuz that was a big thing uh back in 2019 with a special permit for a house, a home occupation of a medical center or a medical office. and the confusion that
is in your bylaw in districts that don't exist in addition to the conflicts of those districts of that particular use. Um, so identified some some talking points and considerations in that medical centers and then also a document
that you're probably familiar with addressing outdoor uh goods and wares and figuring out how and if you want to address that. But really, I think um the idea here is to kind of pinpoint on
these these specificities. Um and because medical center in the back of my head through my time here has been the one thing I was like, I can't get my head around this because it is defined
>> in the table of uses. standards are provided in the table of uses in addition to the zoning districts and the overlays that either don't allow it or allow it. So there's a lot of confusion regarding medical centers and I and I gave the board some context about you
know I think where the confusion lies in addition to the questions that I think we should be asking ourselves and the board as to how you want to be approaching that um etc. Um, I also think that it's a it's a
prime opportunity to kind of look at that particular, you know, medical centers is is a big one. Um, just because I think often times in many of our communities, these professional offices, >> uh, you list various types of professional offices. In professional
offices, it could be medical, could be dental, it could be an architectural office. Hi, Kathy. um and it could be different types of um professional type services uh and it's not explicit and I think the bylaw does
create some confusion with regards to what may be permitted where with a special permit where and where it's not allowed. Um, so that's kind of I think the idea over these next couple of months as we may prepare some zoning
amendments uh for uh a special in the fall. Um, so initially presented to you is the considerations for medical center. It's really not considerations. I haven't really addressed any amendments.
>> So I'm confused. Would that be smart? It's a lot. It's allowed in the business zone. It's allow the >> no office overlay maybe also. >> I think the one I don't know you were
here when we discussed that there was somebody that was looking to have a an a home office. >> Mhm. >> Um treating a one patient at a time. >> Right. And so the confusion there is the
way that it was spelled out on the application. They were doing their a doctor's office. >> However, the way that medical offices are described in in the other part of the bylaw under the under one of the
overlays is that it maximizes the amount of employees in that particular district. That's the uh business park overlay district. >> Correct. >> Yeah. >> Correct. >> And the business park overlay district I
think is all the only only in the bottom the south part right easterly >> right >> side like where GG's. So yeah, I think it's it's a matter of ensuring that the
definition of medical offices in that particular section of the bylaw is something that can extend to all other parts of the bylaw. Like Jim said, there was a home occupation of a of a doctor that wanted to have their home as a place where they
could um serve patients, but there was criteria that did not quite match the criteria that permits that in that particular >> never got approved. >> It did get approved, but I think it was just an acknowledgement that we need to
look at that. >> Okay. >> All right. So, it's some it's probably one of the clearest indications of where I thought uh you know that that particular part in the bylaw was just very confusing. So, it it has stuck with
me for the past couple of years. That's something that we needed to look at. >> Um so, so I brought that forward to you >> cuz that that kind of fell under um where we have it in residential areas is a >> like a hair salon. Yep.
>> Mhm. >> Is one that we have a word or a financial advisor where they're they're seeing >> um customers, >> right? >> Yep. >> Yeah.
>> And then I think it's it's in I think it's a lot to your point. Maybe we need to clean it up a little bit. It's it's like home bakeries too, right?
>> Operating out of their kitchen >> with approval from the board of health or what have you. >> Yeah. >> And res I was going to just add in in residential the single family residential areas those are technically as they currently stated are by right as
long as they meet those thresholds. >> Right. So that's like you were talking Mr. share. >> Yeah, that's a confusing part where it's some parts it's required. You know, professional service offices is a use that is allowed by right with site plan
approval of a mixed use development, but elsewhere it requires a special permit and a site plan. Mhm. >> So it may be the case that you might want a special permit, but if you are relegating that particular if that particular medical office to
where the business park overlay district is, I probably would not suggest that you would have a special permit for that because those are the types of uses you would want in an industrial type district. >> Right. Some some of the other ones I don't necessarily know if it if it's by right, that's always been my argument.
If it's by right, why is it a special permit? >> Right. >> It should be site plan approval to make sure that it has >> enough parking or we can choose whether or not to whether we we follow a formal hearing process of a special program
versus a site plan letting the butters know and depending on what the committee typically feels what the impact may be to the butters. Sure. then then we didn't rather include them and get their feedback or or >> yes so when I was looking at this and
going again a little deeper where medical centers medical offices medical group practices where that's identified as permitted uses in the business park overlay district they obviously have their own definitions for those types of uses however
the general requirements for any of those uses and I will say that if you look at their current bylaw 4.5.2 two this it doesn't even use business park overlay. The district is called research and the telephone park m ultimate >> which so that's in that doesn't make
sense there's more research and development park overlay right >> um so something as easy as that you know something that's easy to fix but the the clauses that I put in bold that I think is you know is is a point of discussion is
um 4.5.2 to C which says all lots and uses shall comply with the industrial or district requirements in the table of dimensional and density regulations and then F all permitted uses must receive a special permit in sight by approval from the planning board right so if it as I
think it's just you know drawing attention to medical centers where it's in an industrial zone >> does that need a special permit >> probably not >> probably not just >> whereas in a mixed use it is allowed by a right of a site plan,
>> right? >> Um I think another interesting thing uh uh and you know you have as a in your schedule of table abuses under 3.516
medical or dental center or lab a special permit site plan approval in a residential single family zone which maybe makes sense. Um but in the general business zone and industrial zone a site plan approval um by the planning board.
>> Uh and again I think this is just a an an area where if there is um a specific plan permitting process just to be clear about maybe it is just in the residential zones we would require site
plan or a special permit maybe. However, home occupation if you're allowing a doctor's office. >> So, so we so I I think the best thing to do there is find out what the threshold is from a home occupation
to a >> well I what the the only I think the only type of currently that's written is the square footage in terms of right now I believe it's about 35% of the square total square footage. That's that's the
threshold that you currently I believe that's the only kind of >> and then you see >> because that that came up with that with that one we were talking about how much of the hospital are they going to be usually for treating patients >> and they demonstrated that they were able to meet that >> 30% >> 35
>> 35 >> I don't recall where in town that was but it according to this too it says that it's allowed in the residential thousands of dollars on street. It was on sale on street.
>> Okay. >> But again, that's so 35% of your house. >> Mhm. >> Yeah. >> How you how do you figure that out? >> Right. >> Right. So there may be >> that may be okay to leave in there.
>> There might need to be something else. >> Okay. That would make it a little bit >> Mhm. >> easier to determine, you know,
how many patients. >> So, it might be I mean, I don't want to talk about it. It might it might be it might be useful if we went back and maybe looked at some neighboring communities to see how they defined it. >> Yeah. And see if there's any kind of
restrictions or additional pressure. If I'm not mistaken, one of the subjects, one of the the uh conversations were well, I may have somebody waiting. >> Yeah. >> While I'm treating somebody. >> Mhm. >> And they had a little waiting area. Need
two parking places. >> Oh, yeah. Which should make sense. >> Yeah, that's a good point. >> Yeah. So I think the idea here, you know, and obviously that what I shared with you is not amended language. It's drawing attention to where the conflict
lies. I think, you know, it's helpful to hear from J from you all as to how you might be wanting to see them in line. I think what the next step would be is to identify how to make it align,
but at the same time then address any questions that might come up. Well, so so I I agree with that and I I think the easiest way to clean some of this up would be how much of this can be just cleaned up.
>> Mhm. >> And not have to go through process then anything beyond that. >> Yeah. I mean yeah determine then we bring it to a we process into a vote >> and you probably would also then want to
identify some other things right so we don't have to extend yourself too much um great so I think what we'll do for the next meeting is provide some of that language
>> um and address those particular sections also drawing attention to maybe some considerations that uh you might want to make in some amendment language. I think this I think this one probably will require I don't know I don't know but if
you're changing standards that might be if you're changing permits and there are requirements for permits definitely um so that might be just something we keep inventory of. Um but the idea here is to identify these kind of
housekeeping/clarification sections of the dialogue. Obviously, we're doing that too through our work with the zoning committee. Um, and you know, Jim sits on that committee and has been offering the idea that the planning
will move on the zoning bylaw amendments as they see fit. Um, and the zoning committee obviously will continue just working. >> Okay. So, so let me clarify it as we see fit. And I'm not speaking for the whole board, but it's it's important for the
for this board to look at it to make sure that there's no um um no uh unintended consequences. >> So, just throwing something out there and it all makes sense to everybody, >> but what are some of the consequences
that may not be intended with the idea of >> Sure. >> Yeah. of the uh the the change. >> Yeah. >> When it's happened that's happened before things getting changed on the floor. >> Mhm. >> And then and then we've had to go back and clean it up after the fact, >> right?
>> And and anyway, that's that's some history, but it's >> it's to make sure that and that's one of the things that we will look at you guys and and as a board to make sure that there aren't any uh unintended consequences from Yeah, that makes
sense. Let's do that. Yeah, think it's really make sure it doesn't affect anything else. >> Yeah, I would say that that's probably the main project is, you know, we have the reformatting, the restructuring, which is, you know, not necessarily something that's to the extent of an amendment to restriction, new language,
per se, but secondary objective that we have is having a separate draft that compiles all of our comments of longer term efforts trying to create that to-do list you're talking about, Mr. Chair. So I think that's that's definitely how we see this goal for this kind of effort.
>> Well, I just want to clarify in terms we're we're serving the public. >> Yeah, makes sense. Obviously, we just want to make sure there's no >> Oh, yes. Mhm. Oh, yeah. Sure. Of course. Yeah. So yeah, I think by sharing this
with me, you can see how this could be riddled with many different ways to interpret this particular bylaw and this particular use. And I think it's just the overlay sections of the bylaw that is crazy. Like
yeah, it's crazy. So just kind of identifying that and some of the standards for that when paired with the underlying zoning is kind of confusing in its application. So I think really it is probably
bringing forward some ideas with regards to the overlays to figure out. Um so the other one is something that I don't know if we continue talking about it uh but it is a discussion of display of outper
right and so I don't know if we came up with the way to approach this obviously in the bylaw it's not allowed anywhere in town that's what it currently says um however I think through the permit on
185 West a street we understanding of whether or not there is a principal use and then you're displaying those goods. That's very different than just displaying the goods as the principal use. So for instance, if you have I
think we use this example of the dollar tree or the the dollar store down >> dollar one of them >> Dollar General and then having something displayed outside if there's something displayed outside that is one way to
think about outdoor goods of uh outdoor uh goods and wares and the display of the outdoor goods and wares. The other way is to think of sheds >> and synonymous >> and saunas and those types of things
would be the the um the idea that also that has been coming uh that a gentleman has been coming before the board to talk about farm equipment. Right. >> Right. So if that particular parcel is to display those types of goods,
that's very different than you know some chachkis on a spinner in front of the Dollar General, >> right? >> I don't know if there's an opinion as to >> so how you want to be looking at this. >> Okay.
as I so so practicality is okay goods and wes so so we would expect the chateau to to display their their sheds to build
a bigger shed to put them in that that's not feasible that's that doesn't make sense and nobody does that anywhere else in the western mass that I've seen >> Mhm. Um, and are they displaying them or are they storing them? I mean, you you can look at, and I'm not going to
mention any names, but there's other stores that some people think you're displaying, but there's skids of whatever, >> right? That they're storeable sometime as long as as long as it's not impeding
parking that that the site plan approval process >> allocated parking spaces. if it's not impeding traffic um and it's on their own property, but displaying goods and wares to to the
point where where it may affect traffic that whether it's whether it's uh vehicle or pedestrian, we had that problem at the the Dunkin Donuts closet. There was a there was an operator there that was selling and repairing
shoes >> and he'd display them in his park because he thought that the the spaces that he was allocated for his business he could do what he wanted. >> Mhm. >> And he chose to display bicycles there and he chose to display them on the sidewalk where where people had to walk.
>> Yeah. >> That's that's where you get into, you know, not to be displaying them or it's impeding other operations that may be on that site or impeding what I just explained >> as far as um you know we can come up
with some some language that it has to be so far off the if you're displaying it has to be so far off the the um >> right >> the building >> the right away >> and and then it you know it could go
through a site plan review for that I suppose it was going to be I don't know how you if it was being if it was if it was enforcable, >> right, >> I can come up with about six different operations right here in town that are
you could say technically are not in uh compliance with it. >> Mhm. >> But it's part of doing business is to display your your your goods or or you're storing them there and just know what it is. >> Mhm. Mhm.
>> What's the difference between that or if you're storing it's got them behind a fence or inside a building or >> right? >> Mhm. >> Was anybody else just talking? >> We want to promote places in town. I have no problem with people displaying
goods and wares. I think I have the same concern as you speaking people being able to, you know, walk on a sidewalk and not prohibit parking of that nature. Other than that, I mean,
I think we should allow it. So, for instance, when if I'm not going to name name, but if there was a person that owns a piece of property and wants to
display slashstore farm equipment, >> I mean, >> are there standards by which that would be need to be that would need to be demonstrated in order for it to not
impede traffic, not impede parking and on their own property. Like >> I mean my thoughts I mean he he shouldn't have 50 vehicles there. It should be a certain amount of vehicles
you know that he's storing on property. Um I don't >> because I think >> I don't see anything wrong with display of farm equipment in a right to farm. >> I don't I don't I don't see any problem with that. >> No, I know. I think I think it's just
the clear definition of storage versus display because what about people that want to store all of their junk in their front yard? I I don't know. It's almost what the intent is. Are you starring it or you
got a wacky waving guy with her saying, "Look here." >> And so I think what I provided to the board are examples of the way that other towns have either looked at it as an accessory use or
in the case of Wilbert as a principal use. And it talks about how display of automobile and trucks parking involves part of those special procedures if there are. >> Yep. Uh you know um and you could
presumably change any of those words >> goods where maybe if we need to identify or define them. Um if a lot a bus or residential zone said storage or display of whatever
shall be affected to screen from view from said adjacent residential district by a natural or artificial barrier that you would create a standard for um in that time a special permit's
required. Maybe you don't believe as but then you wouldn't be able to necessarily condition the amount of vehicles that could be presumably on or equipment that could be presumably on a
>> I think there should probably should be something in here about screening also there should be some type of screening. Well, I I think that you try and write a bylaw to cover all this stuff. You can't
>> hence the reason why you have to start. >> Sure. >> And and and then if if it's something that and the butter has concerns about can address a screen right between the property and the start versus the front
or that I mean we've done that time and time again. We've we've um acted as a mediator between between a property owner and seller. What would you like? Would you be would you be willing to do that then? >> Well, like like
solar that Well, what would you like them to do? Well, could they put in some screen? Would you be willing to do that? >> Yes. Mhm. >> And that's the way it gets worked out rather than trying to white something, >> you know.
>> Yeah. It's very difficult. can't you can't cover that's why there's a board if it was everything was that cut and dry >> right you would need >> but then I think the comment here is whether or not then the board is it is this question about special versus
site plan approval site plan approval requires you to ensure that the rest of the zoning is then ensured on >> your plan so if if there is a screening There would likely be something else in
the bylaw that says, you know, if you're next to a residential district, you need like 10, you know, 10 ft of buffer between sand uses. And it can be either uh physical screening or trees, whatever.
>> Mhm. Um whereas a special permit things like you can't have more than 50 of these particular things on the property, >> right? >> Or here are the specific areas or different types of plants that you need
to use to create that barrier for visibility. That's the hard that I mean that's the thing. It's like >> you you would have to try to figure out the board we would need to figure out >> what is that threshold
that creates ease of permitting. We obviously that we don't need to be thinking about it's like very hard. I think it's just a matter of identifying what it is that's important when you have these types of uses to ensure that
it's not impacted with various things. >> Well, I think Bill, I mean, states it pretty clearly. Outdoor storage, the keeping of personal or business property outside a building for a period of time exceeding 72 hours, right? Mhm.
>> Um outdoor sales and storage, display, distribution, sale and storage of products, services, primary outside structure, including but not limited to garden supplies, bicycles, lawn accessories, building and landscape materials and
burial monuments and for sales of motor vehicles. Uh see more vehicle sales, hazardous materials are not allowed in outdoor sales and storage area. um not necessarily like that, but
something along those lines. Outdoor storage, bulk goods for sale, storage, distribution or display that have been that have a large mass or volume and are not easily moved or carried including railroad ties,
fertilizer or soil. >> Well, and it's in the case of Springfield, those are definitions. Yeah, >> it's uses. So those are uses that are listed in the schedule, >> right? So the way that I might have thought that
this, you know, the board can think about this is something like outdoor sales and storage. The assumption is you're going to be storing these things outside with the intention of selling them like 185 Mustache. >> Right. >> Right. And so you might have standards
for that but at the same time you would either have a site plan or a special permit but it's a state of use. You can't have certain things or you can the intention is but not limited to garden supplies, bicycles, walk accessories, building and landscape materials and
early um and it it spells out exactly what that partic and that's a principal use. >> Um so you start
with defining the principal use more concisely. Correct. >> Perfect. It's just step one basically. >> Because the way that the schedule of abuse is written is the principal use, right? So it's not clear. And while it's
not, I guess that could be the assumption because it's in the schedule of abuses. You look at that as the principal use. >> It's not under accessory uses. >> Mhm. Um so and so it's not clear but at the same time
we could make it clear as a use or an accessory. >> Yeah. >> And then I have in that box above the definition of field. >> So can I give you an example >> of
principal versus excessive? So a principal use uh is a single family residential is the principal use. The accessory use is an accessory dwelling unit or a secondary garage.
>> That's a that's a >> in terms of a business >> in terms of business. >> Principal use is the sh of harmony, right? That's in market for outdoor business. I would argue that at least
>> whereas it's not in >> Yeah, I mean you can think of it that way. So if you were to look at that and the the thing is it's a retail establishment. Okay. >> Right. >> So So let me let's say I'm um I won't
say the hard. Let's say we're >> rental. Yeah. Um, >> let's say we're we're we're a landscape, you know, we're selling mulch and >> and um wheelbarls and all stuff. >> Yeah. >> Mhm.
>> Are wheelbarls part of the agricultural use or or I decide, you know what, I'm looking to bring in some more revenue. We're going to sell bicycles as well. >> Accessory use. >> That's an accessory use. Can't display it.
Your youth is you're selling you're a retail establishment. You're selling things. So you could presumably sell whatever you want, right? You could sell agricultural products as well as bices.
I think the idea here is >> we're talking about displays, >> right? So yeah, you can just use >> I think the the secondary use and and it might not fit when you think about it in the context of display. It's something
like we're using this property for this. This is the main use. It is um you know place we're doing retail but maybe at night it does some sort of other activity. Maybe you have a place where you serve
>> restaurant. I don't know. >> Right. Right. Right. >> Right. So >> that's definitely is a different view. >> Yeah. >> That that's that's cutting. >> So I think but I think the way you're approaching it is is an as an accessory use. You're
thinking the way you're the way you describe that is you're a retail business but you're displaying it outside. So as part of that retail business, the display of goods outside is the excess for use. So, could we define it have two
different definitions? Have it as the primary and an accessory? Because like when we're talking about the farm, >> right? There's going to be it's not a retail use. It's just
>> store. It's versus sales. >> Yeah. I mean that was the big question was whether or not on that piece of property there was a building where sales were taking place. There was not >> right. Yep. Okay. >> It was happening offsite and the
conversations were >> it was contractual offsite. They were coming and picking up. >> They were going to this parcel that had lots of farm equipment and they're loaded and unload. >> They were just picking up basically. was
just strictly storage, not cit cuz the transaction was property. what we were saying was maybe I mean yeah you could probably clarify it further but I also I think recall from that example if
>> was like in New Jersey the transaction was happening or something >> but there could be someone on site that's describing this particular product >> or they were sales >> go on site and look >> or you go on site and you look and you
do with the transaction I think that would be the kind of the argument So, so, so let's let's back it up to the ships, right? ZBA denied them. They took the time to court. The judge
said we're get it worked out, bring the plan. So, wherever we decide we're going to get a let's make sure we've got teeth in the battle rather than, you know, it's something that's going to hold up >> and there's I don't say there's case law
the paper pass >> and we lost >> more than two more than two estate rights. We need another someone who wanted for the third amendment the land court lost. So we're going to put bylaws together. Let's make
sure there's it's >> and and we're not we're not bringing something to the town to approve as the bylaw rights on it. >> Sure. >> And then it it has no no standing in. So that's the other piece of it.
>> Well, of course. I mean that is a big it's a big component of what the violence is going to look like because the planning board acted to approve something that there probably will be another decision that wants to be something like
>> so you have to look at I think you have to look at it in the way of okay this might have been permitted with a site plan for I think the town was identifying this as storage
And maybe it is you're storing things outside. What does it need to look like? Site plan. Great idea, right? So, you want to make sure that if you're storing things outside and then and the activity is for people to go there, park
elsewhere, and walk around these this inventory that just happens to be on site. What does that inventory like? how you know to Jim's point um how does it not impede trucking? How does it
not impede traffic through >> but then you also have the other and then you have to be you have to contemplate also the impacts of what it looks like. So but whether or not you want to be able to condition and something like
that I think is also what is the practicality. So in order for me to sub shed I can't I can't display supposed to put up a bigger >> build my common sense but that's
>> that's not what the intent that in my opinion of what was originally meant for >> yeah right >> now site plan is not out of the question for everything >> I would say I would say at the very
least you cuz I think it's, you know, depends on if somebody comes to town saying they they want to start a junkyard on 202 bunch of dilapitated car that differs a lot from bicycles.
>> Yes. And I mean it it is that out. >> Yeah, it is called out very specifically that you can't do that. But I think someone you know could bar that, right?
>> You're not going to cover saying we're storing stuff that you know is looks like garbage >> when it's not allowed. Uh but yeah, I think to your point, maybe it is thinking about this as
storage, >> right? >> And what does storage of these goods look like? And what does access to how can storage look like materials? I think that's another thing too that you folks have say about in
terms of what might be a destination for those as well. So again, if it's under an an allowed use in that zone, it's allowed. >> Sure. >> Right. And we should So it shouldn't be a special permit to do that, but but if
it's followed up with a site plan >> Mhm. >> then it still it can still be determined by the board. >> Mhm. any any outside um input on it without going
through why put you through a process if there's an a lot of use right >> right >> I mean to some extent you'll be able to do a legal control >> right >> you'll have some you'll have some kind of thing >> um I think it's just a matter of
you know are there specific things that if it is suicide approval they need to be demonstrating elsewhere where in their plan meeting other requirements of your zoning. >> Okay. >> To related to lighting, parking
requirements. >> So, you don't need special equipment that have to be exactly followed. It's not it's no different than if it's an allowed use. And we're going to put the dumpster right in front. >> Yeah. >> Well, guess what? >> Yeah. Right. Basically, >> this this body says the dumpster goes
somewhere up, >> right? >> We want that to be so you still have teeth in there. >> Oh, yeah. Yeah. >> And if you don't get the special permit or the the permit for the site plan, >> then it doesn't doesn't go any further. So
>> Mhm. >> Okay. >> It's really tough to counter every >> but I think this is fresh in people's minds especially because we've seen this particular application. >> Sure. >> More wide multiple uses probably going
to see more. And the thing is there's a probably so many different types of uses that we haven't thought of, right? That >> many boards have pan. >> Well, trust us, right? They're looking for other we have to bring in revenue because it's
>> so they're they're trying to make a living. Sure. What else can they do on this property that is is a a similar business that would enhance the river? >> Sure. >> And they're a good neighbor. I mean, it always looks tidy.
>> So, I think that's a good example of primary versus accessories, right? Cuz primary property now >> primary originally was repaired and everything, >> right? >> Mhm.
>> Um, that is a good example. >> Mhm. Wait, I think that someone says >> Yeah. So that those are two kind of big, you know, ideas that the board in the
past couple of years. I mean, there's multiple, but I think it is like kind of this uh offering to the board these considerations for changes. I think for the next meeting we'll offer some bylaw language that I think will just lead itself to more conversation.
Uh but I think the wares have the goods and wares I think is it's clearer to me at least on how the work might be looking. >> Did you look into Westfield at all? >> No. >> Is Westfield has like old structures?
>> Oh buildings like a bunch of stuff right on the main 202 corridor. Okay. >> They got auto samples and stuff to service station. >> Sure. >> We actually found the building like this pretty and like you want to be like, you
know, I don't know. >> Well, I I think we do. I think we've got this this zone protected pretty pretty tightly, right? And still allowing certain things to happen in the in the uh the common area, right? that a
business zone is a business zone. You don't always know if it's, you know, you can try and keep it as clean as we can, but at the same time, there's stuff here that's basically one before, >> right?
>> I just like to see how they define like how they kind of >> Yeah, I think we can take a look and see how >> Yeah. Yeah. and and so your point, you know, we're
starving for business. We need we need your tax base, right? >> Yeah. >> Other communities that have tax a little bit more on what they're what they're doing now. So that's there's a balance there. We're supposed to be, you know, the good of
the town, right? Let's let's bring some revenue, but at the same time, let's make sure it's good revenue and it's it's appealing. Right. >> Right. >> So for the per I don't mean to interrupt, but for the purposes of the
next meeting, would you want to us to to present something that is model by law language for both primary and accessory usage? So they have two separate versions. Would that be helpful? I think it would be. >> Yeah. At least at least the definition,
>> right? that. Okay, >> great. Okay, >> so that's that. What else is on? >> Oh, uh >> Oh, the survey. >> Oh, there you go. So, let me share what
we shared with you is what the zoning violent committee is has out there. Um, >> so there is all over town there's that poster which has a QR code. >> Where did I get it? >> It's a survey that you can fill out. I understand that Melissa filled one out already.
>> I did >> and I shared it on my Facebook. >> Oh, I got it. I just didn't feel >> No problem. Um, so yeah, fill, you know, fill that out. You can return it to us.
Some can return it to Kathy. Um >> go online actually. >> Oh website >> it's the town website is the news. So I'm still trying to >> Yeah. Last time I checked it was online
for office. >> It's not my favorite website. >> It's here. >> The old one I knew where to go. >> Sure. Um but the new website does on the front page does have a you know missing day >> on the website.
>> Yeah, it's not the most prominent like appearance of that >> but you know I think if the town has Facebook or any sort of social media that meet up >> how many people have filled it out already?
Uh I I told the chief I said we're going to try to surpass the five last >> well I mean >> I mean yes >> um I and I I'll have to ask my um who
did the open space plan. I've been doing a link. Can we put a lid on >> that open that open space? Um >> well, uh very soon. >> Oh, that's it.
>> Grand 44. >> Wow, that's amazing. Okay, >> I'll take that. I mean, I mean, that was awesome. Wow. >> It was It's a good because I remember when we went we did a we had another contract with Graanby and we required to
do a survey. We're only five. >> Um I don't know about the open space. Um >> yeah, we did a little >> Yeah. Yeah. >> So, this this will require as part of our grant with the zoning work to committee this uh meeting of some sort.
in June. >> We'll talk about >> we'll talk about >> post on the website. >> No, you will know and hopefully by the next meeting you'll be able to tell. >> And the other thing we are doing as well is we are going to coordinate with Kathy
and the town to attend the charter days >> after doing the meeting. It'll be at it before or after. >> No, it's the meeting's after. >> It'll be after. Right. I think it's it's a matter of making sure that we notify people so they can do it. So at TR
>> I think we just can do it like with like a little QR code or two. >> Yeah. Yeah. As part of Yeah. I was going to say the flyers they all have the QR code on there so people can scan them. So I think when we talked about the community meeting the idea was to go to charter days and have the flyers there
for folks. That way they can scan them, take it home. Yeah. Exactly. So trying to cast a wide world pretty much went downward. >> Well, I think it's I think for actually the charter days we will be the survey will be closed. It's a matter it's a matter of using charter days to notify
people of this of that. Um yeah because the project ends at the end of the year. So right >> um >> it is what it is but >> 44 is nice. It's It's nice to see double
digits come in there. Um I think that's it. >> Usually it's the second. >> Okay. Anything else? >> No. >> That's all I have. >> Yeah. >> Anyone else have anything? >> No.
>> Okay. Can I make a motion to go? Make a motion to adjourn the April 13th uh planning board meeting. >> I'll second the motion. Got a second. Any further discussion? No.