[Music] Call me in order. It's 5:31. Stand for the pledge of allegiance. Allegiance to the flag of
the United States of America to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, liberty and justice for all. But there's one supposed to have John Edwards for Morris to update us on that.
Yeah, he had an operation last week. Why don't we give him five minutes to see if he's going to be able to? George, do you um did you want to wait until we spoke or did you want to talk about um pending? He's going to talk about it. Yeah, I
should wait. No, it's up to you. We got a few minutes before he shows up. All right, let's keep going then. Um, anybody want to make a motion to accept departmental reports? Sure. I'll make a motion to accept
departmental reports. Second the motion. All in favor? Hi. Hi. Sign maintenance warrants. Kathy, can we give us some less paper? You don't want me to do any paper at all? I've been I've been messaging someone
Mercier. I have texts, emails, phone calls, and hard copies. I can't find anything. Yeah, I just said I keep all this for future. So, I make a motion that we approve warrant number
73 the amount of $443,65364. I'll second the motion. All in favor? I we signing 152 or you have to sign both copy. Oh, that No, you have to sign the toppings that um those are just
Oh, thanks. I need more paper. It's in the folder. Oh, I hear Yep. that'll happen for me. You see it little closer for like 10 years. Sorry. You forget how much you relied on
Chris. Make it this one too. No, it's the same one. Still 73. Oh my goodness. All right. Remember that next time. I'll make a motion we approve warrant
number 72 the amount of $185,85344. I'll second the motion. All in favor? All right. One thing I've noticed like as I get older, my handwriting gets worse. You do look pretty good. A lot of
writing videos if I don't pay close attention. Like I was signing yearbooks last week and I was like having to make spelling correction was like not a thing. Like how's that for an English teacher? I'll make a motion to approve
warrant number 73S. the school of $218,626.13. Second, Walsh. All in favor? I Is it for I enjoy some of my favorite
warrants, sir? How about coming back? You just got Oh, no. You don't have to do the earbud. It's nice. It's actually matches my LA Dodgers hat. All right.
There are several uh licenses here. Brian Dizzle does business as Mr. Be's Kettle Thor 75 Harrington Street Chick Mass for two frame park for charity.
Motion to uh voice approve. Motion approve the motion. All in favor? I have another bit uh license for Sir Amy Roman does business at Amy Route
9 Baker 75 Harington Street Mass was also for charter days down in Grand Frame Park. the motion to approve. Second the motion. All in favor?
I motion to approve license for Bowski Farms 434 East Street. Commanding NAS license expires on December 31st, 2025.
Second the motion. All in favor? I got it. Motion to approve common license for Poppy's fresh endings 20 21 Main Street going to mass. This is for Charades New Park.
Second the motion. All those in favor? Bye. It's a very mus motion to approve count event license for being concessions 85 Tory Street East Mass. This is for charter days only at two fame park town. Second
the motion. All in favor? I think that's it. All right. Um I'd say he's not coming. Yeah, I'd say you want me to shut that down. Um I mean just in case just be like me like
by the time I was done on the housing authority I should fall asleep and I like missed the meeting. They called me up and I'm like you awake. That was the time when I knew I needed to get up. Um George, did you want to speak? Good evening. George Randle, 15th Taylor
Street. Got a couple of friends here. Most important, I'd like to extend a welcome to Miss Martin. Welcome to uh Randy. you're going to have an interesting tour of
duty. There's a lot to do and uh not that I have much help, but don't be afraid to ask people for help. Um my main comment was to uh hear again what your forester had to
say about forestry cutting, especially at Blue Park. There's a lot of dead stuff up there and I'm I'm just here to support the uh calling of the herd up there and it's it's getting dangerous.
You take a walk up and walk all the trails. Yep. You'll see a lot of different stuff, but it's uh a lot of it's standing, a lot of it's leaning, so it needs to be taken care of. Lastly, I want to extend an invitation for the
entire board to come to Charter Day. If um we have the good weather, I'm sure it'll be a good time. Try to make up for the year that we were down. If there's something happening
here, that's all I got. Thank you guys very much. Thank you, George. Welcome to welcome to Thank you very much time here. Yeah, I put the charter days or I asked to put that on there. I didn't know. All
right, good. Great. Come on up. I put it on there because I just I guys wanted to cover it on, but I want to make sure. What's your name? My name is Randy Daven. I'm the chair of the charities. Okay. The whole u concept of charter
days is we aren't supposed to take any said right in all of our stuff. No taxpayer funds used. Nope. Uh well, last fair in the year we lost
$10,000. So um we end up raising the vendor prices, raising the parking prices. Um the the Friday night parking at $10. Um they just want to build back the
financial cushion that they had before. Uh it would be all bought no tax dollars used for it. Um we were forecasting around 45,000 income.
Uh we forecast nearly uh 43,000 in expenses for everything we have to get done. Uh one rainy day will kill the whole thing. So, uh, current parking revenue was based
on, uh, the numbers, which is we have a list of everything we broke down for. Um, what we wanted to try and do though was on Taylor Street entrance where they go in with truck poles and stuff. We wanted to try and charge extra because
those people don't actually come in and, you know, go over to uh the fair or the other side. They go there, they back up and they, you know, it's it's tailgate party for that. So, we wanted to see if
we'd be able to just charge extra just for that Friday night just on the Taylor Street side. That one entrance that goes into the truck pulls. I mean, the truck pulls went up in price on us. Everything went up. So, we're just trying to make sure
we have a cushion so that next year they still have one. So, how Yeah. How much did you already uh Well, to change it uh just that one $20. So, it' be double the cost of parking because like I said, they do not go in, they do not go to the beer tent, they do not go with the food
on that side. We're going to have a food trailer on that side and they don't go to the fair. So, they're only there for the truck pulls. So, is this be honest that park? I don't I don't recall the truck pulls. I don't think I ever go to truck pull. Oh, the truck poles have a lot of people that go
in to park there because on Saturday that that entrance is closed completely because of the fireworks, right? So they to use it on Friday and we can put people park there so they can watch the polls right there from the side. Um, so
we always do that like we always have Well, they usually just let them go in there and park and nobody gets paid. Okay. So we let them park for free over there. Is that what we did last year or No, it's always they were supposed to collect. They didn't collect. I mean,
people just sneaked in, you know. So, we just wanted to make it so that when backing up a, you know, they're bringing in trucks, they're sitting there, they're not doing and spending that money at the fair itself. So, charge $20 to stay there. They stay
there for the six hours and then they're, you know, they they get their trucks backed up right there. Watch all the truck pulls. Now it's they really wanted to park on the other side for $10, right? No, they have the option. Yeah. Go to the other side and park for 10. How much have we charged them before
for parking? Nothing. It's free. Uh 10. It's supposed to be 10, but nobody over there to stop people from coming in. Okay. So, yep. They plan on making sure that there's somebody there. The truck pullers don't have to pay to come in, but you know, people go in there hard to
watch them. Yes. Okay. How many parking spaces are we talking about over there? Quite a few. There's quite a few parking spaces. Quite a few talking. 50 100. Yeah. 50 100
somewhere around here. John Edwards will be with you in a moment. Maybe. Okay. Um, but that's all we wanted to do. This gives us, you know, it ends up giving a little more money back into the account for next year or
more next year. So, you think it's like a few hundred bucks or something like that to bring in or maybe? Yeah. Maybe. Okay. Not that much. Parking spaces. Yeah. I was saying over there.
Um, I guess like it's only that one it's only that one night like I said just Friday night and if they really don't want to pay $20 they can always park on the other side. So that's their option. So we want to we
ready for a motion? Do we want to talk? Yeah. I I I just don't know if it's I I I hear what you're saying, but I don't know if it's the right time because the sale truck is $20 that people had paid the year before. Well, no, they just snuck in on
the Taylor Street side. Oh, it snuck in no way there. Yeah. Yeah. There was nobody at the gate. We did. So, that was two years ago. Yeah. Two years ago. Yeah. Yeah. So if there's somebody at the beach collecting how they bark and
so what's I mean is there a benefit from being played off or just another parking? No, that's like a tailgating. They get to sit right there along watching along the edge watching truck pulls. So they pull up and they're right there sitting right there. They bring
their coolers and so it's like a premium parking. Yeah. All space like that. Uh pretty much. Sure. And the coolers don't have any alcohol, right? I don't think so. Oh, sure they don't. I I can see if
we're talking about certain parking spaces that are premium spots, then that those spots are gone and then everybody else they're going to have that advantage. Well, they're not going to be a lot. They won't be cuz they have to take put the trailers in there and stuff and bring
trucks off or the truck poles. We have sled and stuff and so everything is like they line them up and they put them there and they get to sit there and get closer. That's just the main thing about it. It's just pretty parking spot to watch just the truck post. My question
is how many parking spaces are to watch the truck go like that? get parking spaces. Okay. He's back like would you back up to the playground? I'm just trying to envision it. Uh yeah, not really all the way to
the playground cuz that's further down. It's more down this end and then like two rows of vehicles to be able to watch it. So the other half down there. Is that closer to the lake? Yeah, a little closer. And like but next to the
corral is over. Yeah. What are the park? What's the cost on the other side? $10. All all three days. No, not Sunday. It's 10 on Friday, 10 on Saturday, five
on Sunday. Not scope, but I almost thinking you'd be better off charging $20 on a Saturday when we had the fireworks for the show. No, because we people get mad at Yeah. Well, that that plus Well, the fireworks aren't they're
expensive. That's the most expensive thing in charity is that fireworks, right? You know, a couple years ago, the cost doubled. Most would still defy the cost, but even even the truck pull costs have gone up. So, I mean, from 2 years ago, it's up
over $1,000. But the money itself that we collect would be dedicated to the truck, which is going No, no, it's going right to charter days. Well, fun that that pays for the truck. Yeah. Oh, yeah. So, that's the only thing it goes to is
for that for the for the following year. Most of it. So, two years ago, it was only $5 to park on Friday. On Friday, park everywhere. It went up to we put it up to 10 on Saturday on Friday. No, Saturday was already 10. Oh, that's and
Friday and Sunday. 10 across the board. No, Sunday is still five and it's Father's Day. So, um it's only $5 on Sunday. Uh like I said that that over there on
that side is just for the fact that there's only that one day people can park there which is Friday. So the trucks in the parking there for the truck bowl and there's a benefit to park there. Yeah, they get the benefit
to park close to the truck bowls where they can enjoy the trucks on the back of their truck or whatever. if they don't want to pay for it, they could go on the other side and walk over. So, we'll make a motion to uh allow the charges committee to charge $20.
Uh I'll make a motion that allows charities charge $20 for vehicle to Friday night park till freak side. Okay.
Second the motion. All those in favor? I All right. Thank you. Thank you. That was Thanks for doing charter day. People missed it last year and we appreciate the people stepping up. They just spoke well. They put it on Facebook. I saw it. I put my hand there. That was it. So,
all right guys, Mark, just a point of clarification on that. It's the track is 300 ft long and what he's talking about is track side parking. Okay. back the truck up there. There's going to be a a wall of blocks uh going down the track
so that they won't get over to have a problem. All right. But it's a trackside parking back right up to the UV track and uh sit in the back of their of their pickups. What they what they did the last last time too, right? Good. Thank
you. Thank you, George. All right, John Edwards, welcome. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for us to accommodate my my Oh, no problem.
Well, as as you know, um I've been out on gathering data, marking timber, preparing a sighting plan for the the next phase of timber harvesting for the the park. Even though this is the second cutting, uh it'll probably be the last
one, certainly in my tent, I think. Um given that we covered that uh most southern portion the first time and we're going to uh leave alone the most northern portion this time because it's younger forest and it's in pretty good
condition. I think it's free to grow. I think it would benefit in just being a undisturbed area uh as well as when it is broke. You want to fix John just can you give us a second? Um I'm just curious is that able to pick up that?
Yeah. Be able to see it. Well, can we put a microphone over there? Cuz I think if No, that that you can hear it. Bring up questions for people. So, I want to make sure that when they watch it uh G cam, they can hear. No, they can't hear. Sure. Is there anything you
repeat? No, no, no. We're good. Thank you. You're welcome. Thank you. So, you know, we've got we my part um quite a bit of timber here about 560,000 ft. Um what I'm trying to put in
perspective. um the the log trucks that you see on the road that are tractor trailers, not straight straight rings. Uh it'd be about 100 miles. So there's a lot of wood moving
off of there. Um a lot of it is hemlock and white pond. And the hemlock will removing rocky breezes. Um, I've left him lock in some places along a trail that I thought were that looked healthy. Look like they'd be all
right. Might might not be affected by the woolly indulgent, but you've got a lot of pine in there that it's collapsed. Um, you know, as you walk the trails there, you you see, you know, these sort of sort of historic tip ups
and fall downs where they've come across the trail and be cut away. So, I'm hoping that we might get a get ahead of that by by harvesting a pretty good amount of white pine. There still be plenty of standing white pine there. You've got a fully stock standing white.
So, we also been able to remove 16,000 ft of dead oak, dead red oak, and um a fair amount of dead white oak as well. So, that will come out for the most part in this operation as well.
John. Yeah. Sort of grand totaling things. There's 2300 2,300 trees more. John, can you speak to the benefits of doing it as well? Sure. Be glad to be glad to. Um the, you know, the first
phase we went through was was more salvage than anything else. And there's still salvage being done in this operation. you have standing red oak, standing black oak, and standing white oak that is that's dead. Um, if we if we come in now, we can recover some of the
value and get it onto the ground where it's going to end up anyway. And so, uh, getting some value out of it, I think, would be would be prudent. Waiting any longer, I think about a year or two and you're not going to be able to recover much out of this standing debt. uh the
the hemlock itself um you know about 260,000 feet of hemlock is infested with a hemlock bull. So we have a fairly robust population of hemlock bully which is a an aphid that
um feeds on the needles of the of the hemlock tree and eventually the tree succumbs to it. Really no treatment no no economical treatment for it. If you have them in your yard, you can spray them with a soap and some other solutions to keep
the the the aphid at bay. But when you have 110, 20 foot tall trees in a forest setting, it's just it's just not practical. So, uh this the state of Connecticut, state of Massachusetts, all the way up and down the eastern seabboard where helock is a what we
consider a keystone species, uh is dying. And it's it's you're you're suffering the same indignity here in in Pioneer Valley, but a lot of st a lot of hemlock is going to be dead. You've got standing dead now and you've got fully
infested hemlock. Your your pine um in a in a perfect world um Frank Park should really be a more a more more soft wood than hardwood landscape. and and you sort of have that now. And the way you perpetuate that is
is that you you clear out around uh the pine that is there and create openings, small patches, less than an acre in most cases. Cutting one or two of those trees that are so large leaves you big hole
and that big hole creates on the forest floor for the seedlings and and seed that is in the in the stand to generate and regenerate the forest. So, you can actually already see that happening on the area that we harvested two years ago. I was stunned to walk out there uh
to look at where the trees have been plant, these new saps that were put out. Um there's a little carpet. There's a carpet or white pine start. And uh partly that's because we had this perfect condition of having dead oak
partially shading these uh seedlings. And then when we finally took the the apartment, took the over story off, they they have full full sunlight. They have a real good opportunity to to get established. I'm trying I want to try to do the same thing on a smaller scale
with less openings in the remainder of the remainder of the park. So, while I'm in there, I I've taken out the crooked and the the ugly and the the dying and the the the trees that are really just not my I have a marking rule in my head
that most foresters do when they walk through a stand. You know, you take the prescriptions the client gives you and and you try to try to fit that to what you have on the ground. And, you know, every tree I looked at, I I asked myself, is this tree going to be here in 20 years? and and and that's really the
question I have to answer to be responsible. There's not much less leaving dying trees or trees that are going to die because they have a big, you know, a golf ball or bowling ball size hole in them. Uh they're going to fall down. And so I've left wildlife
trees there. you have a you have a good cohort of of of wildlife trees for owls and for all the birds and and raptors that use that that landscape for to feed and and and fledge their young. Um we're just going to just going to change the
the distribution of change the age class really to give you a a more uneven aged landscape. Do we have an evened landscape now? Because I think the park was abandoned all at once. uh donate it to the town probably at some point and then just let it grow. We were in there
30 years ago, I guess, or more maybe, but you you you really need to create some some diversity in age and and species. So, I think I've done that with with this mark.
Thank you. Sounds good. Thank you, John. All right. Uh, thank you for logging on and we'll uh talk to you again soon. Well, thank you. If you have any other questions, please don't hesitate. Thank you. Thank you. Take care of yourself. I know I'm going to I'm doing my
exercises. You're fine. Bye. Bye. Let me get to number five first and just get that out of the way. craft fair permit a lot more discussion on that. All right.
Um first of all for the we have a permit fee waver request for uh gramy preservation society 250 state street. So they're nonprofit. I believe we have some
information on file already from before. We don't have any procedural problems with that, right? No, we do. It's just vote on to wave the fee to nonprofit. Motion. That's the motion. I second the motion.
All in favor? I I Motion is to uh approve an outdoor grat fair permit for Grammy Preservation Society 250 State Street Grammy Mass for August 16th, 2025 with a rain date of
August 23rd, 2025. A second the motion I I see this show. Okay. When's graduation, by the way? This coming
Saturday. Do I need tickets or anything or show up? Um, you guys saw she'd show up. You know what time? Um, I think the doors open at 10 and the regulations start at 11. Okay, good.
All right. Um, annual town meeting special town meeting for we may already read. Do we uh usually uh decide who's going to uh lose
the motion? All right, Kathy, could I have some more paper? What not to give? But me, if you ever saw my desk, it was really The kids said I was the most organized slob they'd ever seen. Cuz my mess is in
baskets instead of just uh all over the place. I know more or less where things are. All right, I'm not Am I finding the uh file for new business? There's everything on there. Oh, we got the we got the hearing.
All right. Thank you. Brought it back. All right. Tammy had it. Um budget get.1 budget gets read by the fin. That's only the same. Thanks. Yeah. All right. Um so finance committee does article 21.
Let's see. Um, storm water management. Um, anybody do it? Did they read it too or did they gonna read it too? Yes. Okay. That's okay.
Yeah. Article 22, 23, 24, and 25. So nice and easy. Who wants to do this? I'm finally doing 22 23. So just as a reminder hopefully you got
something really I wish I thought my thought was my wish when somebody says I can't make it to the department meeting. I said there's got to be something better better than a department meeting. I wish that were the case. Wish me luck. Um Glenn, you want me to
23 and 22 and 23? these 24. So that's we have a description of each one too. We get to you know I'm talking about usually read off and we have a a brief description.
Yep. That's good. Then we get special town meeting. We still got five minutes before have to open our hearing. Um I'll do any or all but article three
should probably be the cemetery commissioner. No, because that's that's you got it house. Oh, transfer agenda. Yes. Okay. The we might want to have the fire
department. But the first one I have the fire department. We can read it, but the fire department there, but I'm the fire chief. You know, I'm on the fire chief. Can you read number one? I'll read number I'll read number two, too, because I'm definitely going to be the
one to talk about a lot. But um I you know I'll do I I I'll do all um who's going to I mean who would explain that? Which one? Number one I mean I'm going to have Russ do that.
Yeah Russ cuz he gave all the bills to the accountant and Okay. That's why I would say that you can read it and then Russ um should be there to explain it. I'll read I'll read it and you can explain it. Yeah. And I'll read the
second one and explain it. Might actually ask to move change the order. But um and then do articles three. Sure. I don't want to get into the weed on it right
now. Got five minutes. We did have the trigger start. Oh, actually you want to uh mind uh hearing from me. Standing by yourself first. Actually introduce sir. Sure. I started today new town administrator
Andy T Martin. No relation to Chris. No relationship. Um it's in very nice successful day. So I read all this stuff and ready. I think very happy. Thank you. Welcome. What do we got left? We got minutes. So,
we have a Duprain rental for the following. June 19th from 4:30 to 8 for sports banquet. No liquor authorized. June 24th from 3:30 to 8 for a picnic with kitchen. No liquor
authorized. September 13th from 11 a.m. to 5:00 p.m. Cougar friends get together. No liquor authorized. wrapped up. No, me just letting you know. Good to know. And I also received we received a
correspondence. So I'm just going to read the letter. Um they said, "I live on Carver Street right next to the Hatch old farmhouse. Some neighbors have mentioned to me a new red fire farm stand going up there and none of them are happy about it. dealing with the excessive gravel trucks going too fast,
tractor trails flying by, regular vehicles blowing the doors off our houses. Solo at a big pharmacy with cars and blocked areas of the residents leave trash all over strangers around. Wow, that would really make our lives much better. Don't you think? We would like to schedule a meeting so the residents
can talk. I don't mind scheduling a meeting, but I'm not sure. It kind of seems to me it's like one of those things it might be better to have a conversation first. Um, sounds like a person wasn't here before that barn and farm stand.
Okay, you want me to call back or call station first? Pushy second complaint. That is the second complaint. And haven't they already started something? They actually in the middle of it. I would actually talk to the building commissioner first because
I believe they have to go through a site plan with the plumbing board. What? I I drove by late last week and I thought they were more concrete for a little bit. Yeah. Yeah. So, I think that we need to speak with Tom. That was our
building. Um and then before we jump to any conclusions Tom speak about this before it's just everything was okay. He he he missed some things on it and so
did they. Um, and they do that to build um to get a um site review from they're pouring concrete. So the um might be good give them a
call. Um I think ultimately they're going to have the right to farm by absolutely but they still have to go through the process of permitting and do that the right way. So I don't know if do you know Kathy if that is We'll talk to Tom. I knew Tom was in the
middle of something. He was still talking about it and did that lot that his purview right now. So should So um do you want to call the resident or contact the res? Yeah, I can
do that. I'll I'll talk with Tommy first and then see what he has to say. I'll contact the president and then I'll get back. If they really want a meeting, have a meeting, but it sounds like there might be information that first. Okay. Um I think we're supposed to start at Yep. You're
supposed to Yep. All right. I put this up. See if it just wants. All right. So, we're going to open the hearing. And the hearing is for storm water 4 by law regulations. And sorry,
Mr. clerk may tell you what to read the deal. Well, usually it's done by the chair, but I do it. No, I got my Do I do it? You got It's been a long time for me. Usually the chair does, but I I a public hearing will be held on Monday,
June 2nd, 2025 at 10 West Street West State Street Grammy, Mass at 6:15 p.m. Consider the vote to enact chapter 25 of town Grammy general bylaws entitled storm water management on June 9th at the continued annual town
meeting to see if the town will vote to enact chapter 25 of the town of Grammy general bylaws entitled storm water management for the purpose of regulating elicit connections and discharges to the Grand store Grand storm drain system and
regulate storm water runoff from for development development projects. This is necessary to protect, maintain and enhance the public health, safety and general welfare of the citizens as well as the quality of groundwater and surface water bodies of
Grand Along with associated regulations. The purpose of the bylaw is to bring Grammy into compliance with state and federal requirements relating to storm water discharge particularly United States EPA national pollution discharge elimination
system municip municipal separate storm s sewer system MS4 permit a copy of separate pole rule chapter 25 bylaw is on file to tell the clerk to take any other action in regard there
The complete materials relative of this hearing are available for inspection during regular business hours 9:00 a.m. to 3:00 p.m. Monday through Thursday 9:00 a.m. to noon on Friday at 10 West 8 Street Grammy Massave Mark Bell.
You did a really nice job on that. Do you have Do you do uh you do Chelsea's box? They have a representative from 5. Yes, like to come up and introduce. Sure. Looks like Dave's still not there. Fair
enough. Yeah, I think he's flying back tonight. So, I got a call from him and come and see if if you have any questions about just for people who might be watching at home, could you just like briefly
explain it? Sure. Um I didn't come ready to do a presentation but okay just briefly um it's a requirement by law. Let me ask what's that? It's a requirement by law. It is. Yes. Uh the
state of Massachusetts mass D and EPA co-issue a storm water permit and you described that beautifully in your uh announcement of the public hearing. Um so there are certain standards um in
place for controlling storm water that are required by this. The bylaw establishes the authority sort of provides the sort of key points to then uh work in regulations. Um and my understanding is
that in Graanby the board of selectment is the storm water authority and that authorities uh delegated to uh the DPW director, right? Okay. Um, so a storm water management permit would be
required for any project disturbing and I I probably an earlier version of the bylaw, but um what was discussed was u any disturbance of 40,000 square ft or more. It's about an acre. A little less than an acre. Yeah, a little less than
an acre, I think, because the zoning. Um, and this is a few going back a few years ago was a decision to rather than call it an acre to call it 40,000 square ft because of the typical laws.
Yeah. And so the standards are very similar to what um what's required in the storm water permit would hopefully align with the new state storm water handbook. There's supposed to be an update to that um and
the state was really trying to create alignment between the MS4 permit. Right now it's still a little misaligned. Um but communities have to adopt um the new standards in any case in order to be compliant with the uh MS4.
So if we have to change the bylaw probably take five or 10 years the we go. So I can't be that this should be pretty easy because it is something that's required. We have a cut off. Pardon me. Was it
June 30th was the cut off? Yes. Yes. So, we have to vote on the next town meeting. Then I can't believe if you don't have son in place, you can't be fine. You can be fine. Then you can't get his uh MS4 permit and that's
not fine. Yeah. So, there's the bylaw and then there's the attendant regulations. Okay. Okay. Uh, is there anybody out there who would like to ask a question or make a comment?
Seeing as there is nobody, we thank you very much for coming. You're welcome. All right. We'll make a motion to hold the hearing. I'll make a motion close to the public hearing. Second motion. All in favor? I turn to our meeting, a
regularly scheduled meeting. Um, family, do you have other businesses? I just have two more things. Uh, we received minutes from planning block for March 10th and April 14th. And the last one is just it was a
contract for Republic for the U services for disposal agreement. We need to sign up on actually Chris already signed. Sign justformationalformational purposes. Um, that was an extension. That's right.
Yeah. Correct. Got it. Correct. All right. So, this you guys on the me here cuz I had talked to Chris recently. Um, this last for three years or this last for one year. Extension four cuz I thought it was for extension was a year. A year. Bus
assignments. You got both. I believe. So, um, were you aware of that accidentally or No. Yeah. just frost the um it gives it additional time to for us
to go out depend on it. Yeah. So, yeah, it helps. This is where I uh I don't really know what the next step is the because we may not I mean we're going to want quotes but I was le
when I talked to Chris he seemed to think that it was becoming prohibitively expensive to continue with the curbside pickup. Well it is getting expensive because trash removal is getting expensive regardless what you do. So let's give another feasible option. I
mean reality is that may take longer than a year. So we need to decide you know and then we still need to go out for bid and do our part is part of the due diligence. Um and I don't think we do it this
meeting but do you think we need a committee? I shudder it every time I see committee say committee because that means like it more work. um more meetings and um a spot. Um do we need a committee to handle this at this point
or we should I don't know. I think I know there's been talk about a possible transfer station, but I think it was only two options. and improve maybe. Yeah, I considered like regional like you know procing regional in terms of us one of
our adjacent towns or I don't think we're honestly I don't think we'll ever site a transfer station in this town. Well, there's a nice spot on on Hammer Street though big. Yeah. So, I guess our first thing would
be to call this a request for proposal piece. Okay. Um, so good. All right. So that's going to be a motion. Good. Um, so we're ready. Let's talk about
the town. So big question. Towning I thought it was going to be nice and easy. And of course it's not going to be. Um, articles one and two are going to be fine. It'll take about a year and a half to read the budget and the last four are going to be a big deal.
Um, I have probably spent 40 or 50 hours on this uh west street building thing between talking to Lynn uh between reading text messages, reading the
ports, reading the information from the OPM and the architects, I've come to the conclusion that this isn't the best option. It's the only option we have without an override. being the 5.6 million employ. Yeah. 3
million. Yes. So, I'm I'm hearing I think these are pretty good numbers that we're looking at about 650 a square foot for new construction given they have to go out for bid. You have to do I don't know request or whatever. Um you got to do
all that. Got to get your OPM on board. And we have an 18month window and the window closes in 18 months. It's not like we have to make a decision in 18 months. It has to be out in 18 months. Um I've kind of look at demolition as
buying. Best number I have right now is a range of 2.5 to 2.9 million which is all I have to pay for a hole because that's all you get out of the hole. Um they added demolition to new construction or even modular which
seems to be bu seems to be more or less at like 500 a square foot. Once you add demolition you're add actually adding more everything costs more than what we actually have. Well there's a a lot of bait that would need to be done within the building. So that's always the
catch. Yeah. And I think the I don't even know the name of the farm. We only have working right now or finishing up the contract.
ER somebody or something. The OPM. Yeah. Yeah. EF button. Um anyway, they seemed fairly optimistic like that they knew what the costs were and that they could come in. The idea was
that not a new term but a new understanding for me. You're probably familiar with value engineering which means that you basically you start cutting things without sacrificing functionality to make sure that you come in in price.
Um that would be just renovating that one wing. Um I see advantages of with you get more than enough office space by a little bit. So identified for all of our town
offices I think they identified 10,000 square ft of space. People questioned that um based on like what we have so far that was done there are two things. There was a needs assessment done and it was also the other thing they considered was industry standards. Again, something
I'm not familiar with myself, but those were the two factors that factor into the amount of space for all the offices. Things that I'm just sharing what I've learned, which is not complete, but if you build new, there's things that you don't really think about needing like
bathrooms, closets, and this one I never thought about was the width of walls. It so like that actually takes up space. you don't really think about it, you know, inside the wall, but that takes up space, which is another thing
that drives up the um amount of space we have. People have said, you know, all we need is the amount of space we have in um town hall annex, but the town hall annex doesn't fit us. It's not handicap accessible. Board of Health is basically
a closet. Um and all that information study if you will was done uh probably a couple years ago at this point um with the uh with the building
committee. They spoke with each person each uh person at that that that building and ask them know what they need what they're in right now and what kind of space will they need to move forward. So, these just weren't made up numbers.
Yeah. And I couldn't find a document. I know I have. It's it's either on an email or it's a text or it's on a hard copy, but I think the actual office space for all of those offices is a little bit smaller than these identified were actually smaller than the existing
space. I know that the town administrator was not. It was like town administrator space was like I don't know fit my house or something like that. But uh and that would have been cut down. I'm not. But I didn't think that the amount of space they were looking for was exorbitant. No. And it's
EDM Studios. EDM Studios. There we go. Yeah. I've never been in these. Um just I think repeating to remember too is that we need a solution to a problem that that be happening now.
That's and that's what we the select board has been looking at over the past year at least and that's uh you know what the uh building committee and what they were charged with you know they brought up absence cost dramatically
went up over the past uh couple years. It's just that's everything. So, you know, again, now we're getting to a point where, okay, we can just get the what we need at this point in time, but
we always have room to expand down the road, which is a nice a nice thing to have. That's an advantage instead of just building something and having just to fit you need right now. Well, you know, where where are you, you know, 5 10 years down the road? It's something
that kind of came up several times in our SL board meetings is is planning for the future. We're not planning for a year, two years down the road. We're planning for 10, 15, 20 years that you know there's something still in place. Yeah. Another thing is that I mean
though a little bit dismayed at some of the suggestions because I've heard people say at the same time they've been saying that the elderly couldn't afford a tax increase they want to basically take over down here and send the elderly to another town council on agents. That
was not something I was particularly in support of. Uh the other thing somebody suggested we take over the library because nobody uses it which they clearly have not been in the library because they're pretty busy. Um, I did thinking and a little bit of
talking to people about the high school because I want to take the suggestion seriously. The only place you could conceivably put space in the high school would be what the industrial arts wing which is behind kitchen which houses right now hand
houses graby the to go unfamiliar to go started by Judy Dong recognized that she saw a kid basically chewing on her shirt. She said what are you doing that for? The kid said I'm doing it she's hungry. She's been having food. So Judy
started this program of having collecting food and then sending it home with kids so they actually have something to eat. Um that program has gotten a little bit bigger since moved to the high school. Kids who are um are hungry and their family needs food, they can actually pack a backpack full of
stuff and take them. I don't really see us kicking those people out to um in town offices. So it and I don't see I I tried uh thinking about where could you partition some rooms on like where this
school committee or the superintendent is. I just I can't see how you could possibly do it securely. Right. To your point, Mark, it's it's and and I appreciate people when they have suggestions and that's that's good to have. you know, wherever it may be, they're thinking they're thinking
outside the box and they're putting out suggestions and that's that's good to hear. And I can tell you probably every suggestion that they're putting out is something the select board has talked about because the same thing they were thinking about, same things that the
board members have been talking about too. It's just not, you know, what's what's really feasible for us to do. High school. Yeah. But now changing the use of the high school at this point becomes mixed use. And I I looked in a little bit of that, but again, because, you know, I'm an English teacher, I'm
not a builder. It seemed like he didn't have to bring the entire building up to code if he changed the use, but if you started messing around with too much construction, you'd have to bring that portion building up to code. And I say, you know, if you're planning for the future again, so who's to say, you know, 10 years down the road, you're not
looking at a new high school. Well, now you run into another problem because now you just it's not just a high school anymore. now you have, you know, office space inside. It's not late in the school. So, I mean, again, you got to kind of plan for the future and make sure that we're
uh and I and I feel this way is making the try to make the best and the right decisions at this point in time for the future. I also know that uh when I did suggest that new current superintendent, she was
not fond of having people come and come. So, so but again, it's um for people who are ancient just please us. Uh the um way back in the '9s, we had a
project come forward to build town offices where the Benor was. Um and one of the things that killed that project was that all the options hadn't been examined. Um and people wanted St. His that was the one that
needed to be excluded. if it was excluded, confirmed as useful and feasible or confirmed as not feasible. And that's probably the biggest thing I did in that project. So, I mean, in the future, that's one of the things we need to do is make sure that we focus on
exploring all those options cuz what's happened now is we got kind of a messy process. People have ideas which are legitimate and creative, but at the same time, we needed them, you know, a year ago or whatever. Um but again the point
this board has been talking about those things. It just wasn't this again we look at what space there's two things that we all right what space does currently the town granty own for a building. Okay if not what other space
do we own for property or land that would be feasible to do something like this. It really came down to you know the possible elimination that we ended up with you know the white street building. it's a build value home and looking at what was is that
something that was going to be feasible for us to use. So that's how you know committee people came instead of moving forward. I remember sitting here talking about all these different issues and uh we talked about the the modular buildings and I thought hey that'd be
pretty good. Date did some research on it and they're very expensive. You'd end up spending as much for modulars that you need as you would in the $5 million renovation. We talked about the old possibility using that just wasn't
enough space. Not enough space. Yeah. You have that transient possibility transient number of people like you only have a certain period of time like 25 something. Um, another thing what brought up is like, well, it's an 81y old building, but I go to South Hley.
Anybody familiar with South Hley's town hall? My mom went to high school. West Springfield down in there are a couple school buildings that are actually used for office space. There's some buildings that are older than that
state, Washington. So, it's it's not uncommon to turn old school buildings into um town offices. Would we would be the only I could not find anywhere um in Massachusetts where they actually
included town offices in the high school. Um but based on the facts and figures I have, some of these options would actually put us into override territory. We did not go with West. I mean, that's
how extreme it is. I mean, new construction, even for 6,000 square feet, which wouldn't do all our offices, which still, what is that at or above the cost of that we're expecting for West Street. Um, we did the whole
10,000, you're way up, you're 7.5, 8 million. I just like literally it's gone from I didn't vote on it meeting. I just didn't vote. I did not have enough information. I didn't know what to do. So, I didn't vote. I thought it was a good alternative and I voted for it when
it came up because I thought option B would be nice with the gym and the cafeteria. I thought that was, you know, a good thing. So, I voted for it then. At this point, I think it's now the only option without an override provided they can get it in up to five
point. It's random, right? And that's where the value engineering comes in. The first thing we need to basically that the first thing to do is meet the higher costs cuz um we've only got we've got a limited appropriation and we can't go above that appropriation. And that's
why I suggested just making it one large open space to save money on interior walls, doors, finishes that go along with it. So now you're saying like knock down walls or just like not add partitions or something? Well, use what's there
but if but if walls have to come out for whatever reason, then leave it as open space. They're going to go out to bid on anything. So, they're going to have cost and built into that. I mean, usually a 20% uh contingency for for other expense
things like that. Yeah. You know, I I think about when the school was the new elementary school that can't cost. So, you know, as long as someone's watching the cost and you make, you know, people understand that this is a
firm amount of money, that's it. There's no more. So, I think that's that's really a possibility. If we proceed with EDM Studios, which I think is globally the plan, they're very well aware of Oh, absolutely. our constraints in the
process which I'm sure they well they they get paid whether they enjoy it or not but not sure anybody else enjoyed it. So if it's all right with you I'll I'll read that article and I will speak and lay out pretty much what I'm saying
here. The other option I didn't I just didn't mention was I had more than one person suggest to me that we sell either buy the annex have people sell it to some people who would then develop something there
and we would buy it back or lease it back and the same thing and my two answers for that were I'm not sure any cheaper we are definitely not sophisticated enough to pull that off and I it is legal as far as I can tell.
I know the state does it and the federal government does it. So basically all the donors they're they're taking the property and we would agree to lease the property dra the state the state does do that. Um, but it comes down to it. Okay, how
long do you lease that building for it? That just keeps on going and going and going. It doesn't stop this and like stuff that like doesn't keep me up at night cuz I don't understand it that well. But I mean, what happens like if you start running into problems with cost and they want to pass the cost on you and then they take
you to court and I mean but who's got the sophistication to do that to your point, Mark, too. So, say you sign a 5year lease or 10 year lease. As that's said and done, they're going to restructure the lease. That's to what the cost is at that point in time. So,
your lease is staying simply keep on going up, but at the end of the day, you don't own anything. It's not yours, you know, and some places do this. I know like the the post office. So, years ago, the the United States Postal Service got
got into doing that because they didn't need the buildings. They're finding out that need to have someone upkeep the building and it's much easier for them just to walk away from it if they didn't need any. We're always going to need a town office. It's the spot we're always going to need. So, you know, I mean, it's not a thing like they said, well, you know
what? We're not going to need a post office in Grand anymore. We can double up in South Point. They can do that. They just walk away. So, um, do you want to talk on it too, Tom? Any? Yeah. Yeah, I mean questions come up and I think you know the the the
informative bunch is the uh the building committee, the West Street building committee. I think they I mean they've done some long hard work on this, talking to different things, researching it. You know, I think they're very knowledgeable
and educated on it. And I think I think together uh this is something that the town needs and you know, you know, it comes down to, you know, to kind of put it in perspective. If you want to buy a new park, we would like to get another power, all the bells and whistles. But
reality is if you can't afford that, you start taking away things. And I think that's where we are now. Reality is I'm driving. But the reality at least on the road with the reality is we we need a vehicle. We we need something. We have to drive places. So this is the town office because we're not we don't have
an option. We have an option right now to uh lease a building that we're in currently, but that price is going to go up. That price will increase. And that's not longterm for us. Here you go with the elders looking to sell the property.
It's also not APA accessible, right? It's like Yeah. When I go in, it's probably be okay as a house. When I go in that board, I also I'm like, this isn't even as big as my closet. I got a big closet. So, it's like I mean, you could fit table and chairs in there, but
you have to like sit sideways. I hear people say, "Well, we don't plan for the future." Well, we're trying to plan for the future. Yeah. It's a kick. It's the kick the can down the road thing. And then you want to buy a form of classroom. It was a kick. It was a can.
All right. We got anything else on the agenda. I think we have the updates, but I don't think this went for all business for anything. No. So, at the next meeting, do we start appointing committees again? Yeah, I'll get everything together. And one of those
things in your um correspondence was that happy broner was really That's too bad. All right. So, we got So, do we need to get out from what people is that what we want to do? I'll um see who's on there and who's leaving and I'll send it
out to you guys. on the website already has uh on there um what like the ZVA needs three people uh the table needs um some people and I also put the uh slip
up there that says if you're interested your name your address uh write why you're interested um and get it to us so okay um I had given you before I was elected a copy of the communications committee yeah thank Yeah. You guys get
a chance to look at it yet? A disc yet? Yes. Um, so we bring that forward next to I don't know. I haven't seen it. So, okay, I'll get you that. Um, I come up with the idea probably in March and then it was like following the activities in
Beltown. I saw they had a committee. I'm like, "Okay, that's cool. I can steal their chart." So, I took that and like rewrote it. And uh yeah, I've been trying to my personal goal would be is trying to get 25 new people involved in town um
in some capacity. And I think I have like three or four people who all new are interested in doing something. Um one of the things I was thinking too was uh getting people even people can't
can't serve or earn elect and stuff like being associate members. like some boards actually have I think the planning board they have two they got two associate members but s they probably have they don't conservation
has um associate one yeah I think I mean we need just regular members on the planning board but um yeah I think they're actually like staffed poorly so I'd like to encourage people to you know be associate members yeah DEA has associate members
so so we can get people like warm it up and see what's involved. See what's involved and then move up to the spot everybody. Oh, anything else? Ty, um, your town minister usually gives like a 15 minutes each before town
meeting. You're all set. Still fun. I I'll I'll do the state of the town speech on that day. I'll share it with you guys so you know where it was. Um I wasn't going to focus a lot on town issues. Probably focus more
on what we do have besides money with people. I like that. We have a motion to make a motion to second the motion. All in favor? Bye.
Thank you folks.