##VIDEO ID:pmYZJ1Mf1LA## [Music] all right it is now 5:30 I will call the select board meeting to order on December 5th if you can please join me in the Pledge of Allegiance I Pledge of Allegiance to the of the United States of America and to stand naice thank you so just to let everyone know there is another gentleman here um taping tonight so Mr nightly will also be taping uh today's meeting and we will I'm sorry Yak here Yakir thank you and um we will try and speak loudly for you because we do not have the speaker system right now so um to start off this meeting before we get into our 531 um appointment I just want to let everyone know that tonight is going to be a conversation between the select board and the applicant we will not be taking any SI any citizen participation okay so it is 5:31 so we will do start our continued public hearing Thursday December 5th at 2024 at 10 West State Street gramby Mass to consider our gravel permit application by LJ Development LLC applicant and owner James and Cathy a slay ET um. al44 Merc or drive belter toown Mass to remove earth materials from property located on troni Avenue as per the zoning bylaws section 5 special use regulations and performance standards 5.8 Earth removal of the town of Granby so yes you can come up or is your is the lawyer here or Neil thank you hi I'm Jackson representing we have think our attorneys Conta the select for for an extension until April so we can um invest vate some alternate um AC know a lot of the opposition is from for using Trum and bachelor which we haven't abandoned that idea but we're looking to see if there's a more amigable solution so obviously we have to work with property owners to get access right did were any of the studies started some of them have started yet but but I again a lot of the studies that we well on being Bachelor so if we abandon that I think the particular matter in the air um that study was not just for Access through that so that will still be done yeah um I know the other one was the traffic which was based off coming off of trump kav and which route you guys were going to take or the traffic analysis and then the title search I we never received it did we Chris do you guys have the I don't have I think it and then um I'm not sure if you can answer this uh Neil but the hydraulic study we have done that okay hydrologic study sorry you guys have any questions I guess my question would be is there when we can no is there a way that we can have a meeting before that and my concern is that this goes to we haven't set a date yet one in April but my concern is come May the board may or may not be made up with a different board member we're already in a since this has started we've already had one change in a board member my concern is that this information keeps on goinging forward um with that time frame where it I want to make sure the board has enough time to review the application after the close of it you put together a different access by then after a little that's finally I want to and not sure how that would affect um from my standpoint where the outcome would be if we it may or may not change another board member that's been part of it for since the beginning so I guess for me that's something I'd have to you know ask our our councel on that to see where we'd be with that that's just a concern that I would have um the applicant is requesting to um continue this until April until they have some additional information regards to uh possible different access routes into the the Gravel Pit uh but there's also some other information that's due my concern is that in may we have a town election for select board and you know it's unsure whether or not we'll have the same board uh after that election or not you know we obviously can't say for certain one way or another so my concern is that with the board having enough time depending on when this is in April until first or second Monday in May third Monday in May um does that affect the board's time frame because we're to have a 90-day window after the close of the public hearing and my concern is that if a if a decision is not made prior to the election and we have a different board member where does that put us because one of the board members was part of part of the whole um hearing from from the beginning right so I don't have a particular concern with the 90day deadline but that's not to say that your point isn't a good one it did and this happens from time to time time with applications that that take a while to work their way through a special permit granting Authority where an applicant submits an application you know it can be it can be in January February and it takes six or seven or eight months for that application to be fully heard and bed meanwhile in the middle of that process there's an election there could be a change over of one sometimes two I've had a case where there's a change over of four of five board and so in those circumstances members who were not on the board at the time of the opening of the public hearing aren't qualified to vote on the application and so what happens from the applicant's perspective is at some point in that process the applicant loses the requisite number of members to even qualify for the permit it's a if it's a special permit um it requires a super majority vote and if it's a three member board it requires a unanimous and so even on a three- member board if if a single member is lost the applicant can't possibly qualify for the permit so what has to be done it's a it's a process that we casually refer to as reconstituting the board and effectively what it means is if Midway through a review process Midway through a public hearing process the membership of the board changes due to an election the applicant has to effectively start aresh and ren notice the public hearing the way that it did for the initial session of the public hearing with publish notice and notice by mail to all parties in interest the butters Butters to a Butters within 300 feet of the property and then effectively start the process AR fresh now maybe the applicant can show up and at that first meeting kind of recap what was done previously over the course of one two three four five meetings so that it really isn't a one for one reenactment of what occurred previously um but it does the statutory process does need follow it that happens with more frequency than you might think but it's it's an added inconvenience for the board it's an added inconvenience for the applicant and certainly it's additional cost for the applicant to have to pay to publish notice twice in the newspaper and to mail notice to what could be a number of abs okay because we've already had one board member since this special permit application has started uh we have one new board member since that that time frame as well already I just I want to make sure the applicant that they're aware of what may may come in the future just based on that so what I what I don't know is I don't know whether because I'm not your your usual Town Council whether gry has adopted the the statutory provision that allows would typically be referred to as the exception to the Mullins rule that allows a board member to miss one meeting and then rehabilitate Mel by reviewing the transcript and certifying in the record that they've done so and you adopted that statute do you know we we have but my concern is that you're talking over a year of well several meetings within over a year period of time and I mean there's been a a lot of information that's been put forward right and that's problematic for two reasons one is because even if you've adopted the exception to the mull rulle it only allows you to miss one session of public hearing you can't this multiple sessions and number two you know there's also a debate amongst us lawyers as to whether not being a member of the board during one of those meetings because you weren't elected until a later date qualifies you to to use that exemption I've applied in the past that you know it's questionable whether you can use that exemption not because you didn't miss a meeting due to you know inability to attend illness or something along those lines you weren't even a board member so again it's the applicant that bear the r uh it potentially compromises any ensuing special permit that would issue but these are things the applicant ought to think um carefully about particularly if it's going to extend the public hearing till April if the board declined to grant that continuance request that means there's plenty of time between now and April to effectively reconstitute the board or maybe the applicant wants to consider withdrawing or asking the board to withdraw altoe that that withdrawal can be with the board's permission can be without prejudice and then make some future application sometime after the election when the board is is uh Rec constit is based upon new membership okay so attorney Costa just um I know you weren't able to hear us so they had started the particular matter um in the air study the title search is completed um but they haven't sent it to us yet and they are looking at a different access point the hydrologic study has not been started yet either so I guess so sorry I'm sorry go ahead I was just going to say so if the particulate matter in the air study has already been started is it I think it's more than fair to ask to meet in February because that's another what 60 days less a little less than 60 days to get that report and to set up the account to do the PE review the chapter 44 section 53g if we continue with the hearing sure so so I I want to be clear continuances are at the discretion of the board that's not to say that I routinely advise the board I represent ially on out as a matter of course unless they're abused I've had some instances where an applicant is asking for a six or seven eight or nine continu and at some point those board tend to say enough is enough if you're not ready then resubmit when you are ready we're going to refuse the continuance request um if you refuse a continuance request you have two options you can either allow the applicant to withdraw without preent which requires a vote of the board that kind of took them that to where were before they made application they can make a new application at any time when they ready the other option is to and the terminology would be to withdrawal with prejudice but a withdrawal with prejudice is effectively a den and while the board has the discreption do that if you so choose um it has consequences for the applicant because once a final action has been taken final negative action has been taken there is a subsequent free the period within which a reapplication cannot be made and it also suggests the town to litigation because because of that freeze the alocate may choose to to file suit to appeal or challenge the denial so I don't often recommend except in the most extreme circumstances that boards do that um so your options your your your your recommended options are allow the continuance or effectively tell the applicant the applicant want to withdraw without prejudice and vote to allow them to do so if you do Grant a continu if you go with option one how long of the continuent grant is entirely within the discretion for it doesn't have to be until April just because that's what the applicant request um there are pros and cons to a lengthy a lengthy continu on the upside a continu toil means that the neighbors don't have to reach for a meeting may not be all substant is it means you don't have to have this to an agenda for discussion that not be subst but the the downsides are that it's a lengthy period of time between now and the next time you see the appli and get an update on project so what your proposal is to reconvene in February to see where we are with these reviews these review stud and to coordinate your moving forward that's certainly something you could do alternatively you could get authorization tonight or confirmation tonight that you as a board C on your behalf has the authority to engage peerreview consultants and coordinate that with the applicant offline and you could do that even even between now and April once you received the report but if you prer a meet and discuss where you are in that sequence and what those reports are and whether they're ready for peerreview certainly you could do that in February if that was your preference okay thank you guess I just so I just had a question so if um we do Grant a continuous in the board um does agree to that in April I think that's a long time to wait for a specific studies regardless of what access point you guys are taking so I would ask there's some feedback there no it's delay oh is it okay so I would ask that that particular matter study um and the hydrologic study although that hasn't been started yet right and with the winter coming I don't know if you're going to get a good started I'm not sure okay I just don't want to come to April have studies not be done again or not completed and then we're still left with another continuance again so if the particular matter study has been started and I you know asked the other board members your opinion as well but if that's been started I think that that needs to be completed by February so that we can set up an account and do the peer review in the meantime so I would ask that that one again I don't know about the hydrologic study but if that has been started I would ask that that's also because the last time we were here for the open hearing on 9:26 we were told that 60 days was more than enough time and now we're here again and we don't have any of the studies completed and they were supposed to be given two weeks prior to this date for peer review so I don't know thenen or that's my feeling no I said earlier and that's why you know I wanted to the a clarification on both sides so with that said I you know I I think um finding a date in February to continue the meeting to I think is helpful so we have additional information from the applicant and at that point in time too I mean really you're you're a couple months out to where you know an election may be and depending where the applicant may be they may decide to do something different at that point because kind of listening what the attorney just said if this is a different board at that point in time it's kind of no one void there's not enough board members to make a um to vote on it because we've already had a board member that's that's missed a couple meetings yeah and I would agree to continue also in the hopes that you could get your studies forward and we can make some decisions from there and allow us to time with the p review so attorney CA when you said um to give Chris permission to speak to the applicant for the peer review so because their attorney is not here can we not set get that in motion and set that up for the chapter 44 section 53 G so I can't see the audience is the applicant or a representative of the applicant presid oh representative of the applicant so um then certainly that representative can it doesn't need to be an attemp that you get from Council withing these accounts my recollection we had effectively discussed this process and procedure at the last session of the public hearing now we're going to convene to review the status of the report before we Enlisted the services of your review Consultants but the process of actually listing Consultants is more administrative than it is substantive really the board identifying who those Consultants would be or officials identifying who those Consultants would be verifying with the applicant through Council or otherwise that the applicant is okay with those selections and then getting the funding from the applicant to be uh deposited into a the chapter 44 section 53 g account so if the applicant's okay with us proceeding as I just descried and doing so without convening another meeting the board board is okay deferring the authori to Chris to identify those Consultants maybe in conjunction with the chair um and then to get confirmation from the okay with those question then certainly that can be you can vote upon that tonight as you choose so I did have in my notes from the 926 meeting that the select board has to adopt this regulation so what you're suggesting is if we are going to go that way and the applicant agrees that we can adopt that tonight and get that process started right and I I think I um the lawyer that was here your lawyer or your attorney had agreed to that the last time yeah okay attorney Kasa do we have to actually name Chris Martin or we just name Town Administrator does it need to be a name with it just all right no it doesn't need a name it can say to administrator all right so is the board um willing to Grant a continuance to February and we'll have to look at some dates like you said Glenn so that we have a date and remember Glen I think there was one week you were on vacation right and then one week I was was in February or is that that is correct that's the first two weeks I think no it's the week the third the 7 so we were doing the 10th and the 24th but again I recommended a different night if you're gone that first week and I'm gone that I'm back I'm just not here that Monday so well so February 6 I'm F February 6th you said you're free I'm free okay you do I'm also open all right February 6th unless for some reason I decided to stay in Florida I come back and you want to check that date with Council for the yeah yes okay do you want another date in case that doesn't work we can't or no we can't right it has to be set today it tonight so what day you so February Thursday we go later you gone the following week Crystal no the week after the week of the 17th so we can do it the following week the 13th or the yeah the 13th or the 27th is also a Thursday y 27 okay 27th does that need a vote so just so we're clear on Thursday February 27th um if we continue for that date for 5:30 p.m. we will have the particular matter study done the title search will be sent to the town administ for us to also look at and the hydrologic study will also be done and then I know you guys are working on that alternate access so as you stated before if you have an alternate access you'll share it with us then what time is 5:30 5301 sure okay we just need a motion now good I will make a motion to continue the public Gravel Pit meeting hearing hearing hearing I'm sorry to February 27th 2025 at 5:31 pm I'll second the motion any further discussion all in favor I and then the board just also has to adopt the chapter 44 section 53 statute so that funding can be established between the applicant and the Town Administrator for peer review I will make a second motion that we accept a motion I'm sorry same motion my motion that we adopt chapter 44 section 53 G of the Master General law for peer review set by account for a peer review y permission to Town Administrator I'm sorry and the grant permission to the town and Grant permission to the Town Administrator just said to set up the meet the peer review with the applicant with the applicant thank you it's a lot of information it is I'll second the motion any further discussion no discussion all in favor I thank you thank you thank you all right so next on the agenda is the fire chief resignation why aren't you gonna let people speak so for an open hearing it's between the select board and the applicant so we've listened to the citizens every single hearing so this was just a continuous between the board and the applicant the notice that went with the on the town website said that we are continuing the public hearing the last time in nowhere did it say citizen participation on the agenda I'm not talking about citizen participation you don't have that at a public hearing it's between the board and the applicant no it's not yes it is and you can ask our attorney though why did we speak at all other because we allowed you guys to speak why are you not allowing it now because it's between us and the applicant so Mr or attorney Costa I am correct in saying that right um You are so the way that it works um with respect to the zoning public hearing whether they're special permit variances comprehensive is that at some point during the public hearing process you know that the do refers to those that term public hearing singular um somewhere along the way it became common practice that public hearings often occur over multiple sessions because projects got more complicated and it was too difficult to review every project in one session but every session is part of a single public hearing and the way that it works public hearings is at some point in that process there must be an opportunity for public participation public feedback hence the term public hearing versus public meeting so a public hearing does indicate that there is an entitlement at some point in the process to public participation some boards allow that every session of a multi-session public hearing some boards allow it at a single session of a multi- session public here and what's more common is that most boards especially for projects that are continued from session to session sessions will allow it at many of those sessions but not necessarily all of those sessions and it's fairly routine with a meeting like tonight where there's really no substantive discuss or the project but really it's just a continuous request from the applicant and we've spent the last 25 or 30 minutes just talking about what's going to be accomplished at the at the continued public hearing and when we're going to continue to to it's fairly common in those circumstances for there not to be any real opportuni for but certainly I would expect that there'll be more opportunities public this thank you all right so fire chief resignation is next on the agenda so Chris you did give us a copy of the posting that was our last posting okay so our last meeting we continue this to this meeting here and um I know I I think the board in general had some concerns regards to um who would be leading the fire department at that time yeah I know at that time we' had the deputy chief Tyler Ian stated he wasn't um I wasn't interested in doing so at that point in time and I would mention the um the assistant chief Joe Fernandez and he is here tonight and I reached out to him just because I want to see where we are with the fire department moving forward um in regarding U if the board decides to accept uh the chief O'Neal's resonation in the time frame which was our concern so y um you know I I guess I do it's a boort do have a question for uh Mr Fernandez as well yeah Mr Fernandez please come up think Fernandez good how are you I guess I have a question what's the difference between the assistant chief and a deputy chief assistant Chiefs are just one lovely tier in the CH above so it would go Chief assistant chief def Chief so at this point in time with the assistant chief as you are and the current chief resigns you would become technically for the chapter if the chief is not present top two tier have the right to make decisions to keep the department Mo moving forward right at this time after that so back board meeting on Tuesday night me and the deputy chief met with a huge part of the body went over the situation left this us as their contacts there's any is issues something breaks you need something we can help out and get that moving we have the right to say the ulish breaks I can say send it to marot we have that right that's our power for that chapter so at least nothing will fall through the cracks that way the biggest thing is I'm out of town but my phone's on I answer the phone deputy chief he works 24hour shifts so he's on 24 off on 24 he's available but we're not no one in this group the way our setup is available 247 right you I mean we're around everyone will respond you always have a good group as you saw for the paperwork I gave you we have 39 active members right now our staffing is already scheduled for December full no issues we're working on January already we took care of the capital Improvement forms and stuff that need to be presented and the next thing mean uh the that we could work on would be getting the budget going until we get Poss an injured after listening to your select board meeting I contacted uh Chief modder who's a retired Chief and also Chief spank na from Hadley they are willing to post it on the fire chief Department uh with your permission we can come up with something to post uh for someone that could do the dayto day to pay roll they available for inspections have that at least a 40 hour 30 Hour Week where we can do to have okay so I think that's the best thing going forward I'm not worried about the apartment falling apart I think they're a good group they're very strong and I just think we just need to move as fast as possible to just fill that because you can't put all the burden on the fully six full-timers because they have to do calls if they're all in the call they they can't do the paperwork paperwork falls behind it's to you can't get the warrants in any time so that's the importance to have I think no does the board want to I think we want to expedite this and this is why we kind of brought it back up and I guess my concern at this point in time is before we have a interim Chief is that we have someone that is responsible for the Department once so and I understand that you and the deputy but as you explained rank structure is to Chief assistant chief deputy chief so I want to make sure if the two people don't agree on something that someone has the authority to say this is the way it's going to be the rank makes that happen Okay but we happen but I will say that since this is all started uh the deputy chief are been Conant contact we're working together uh Chief O'Neal reached out he's been very receptive for questions had no issues getting responses emails information forward to us he might not be here but he has been not hard for us to get hold of okay so when that said no and I do appreciate that that like I said I don't expect there to be any issues but sometimes you gotta live in the world of a what if and that's why I want to make sure that that what if does happen that there's someone there that's saying No this is the way it's going to be and I'll take responsibility for it if it's not correct that's understandable um assistant chief Fernandez can you just tell me who were the two chiefs that you reached out to chief chief moer who just retired and chief sping I told from head uh he has he's the head of the chief Association for western Mass so he could send out a mass email of one shot with the posting but by to get some word from you guys so I'll send something to you tomorrow we just send it to Chris and will take care get that going and he'll put it right out there and then they'll send their requests back I did reach out they thought there might be one or two guys that might be le do 20 30 hours okay at least be here to help out during the day also we do have three members that are certified to do inspections so that shouldn't fall behind either they' all agreed to work together on that now we got that that and I'm glad to hear that and you know one of my concerns is that you know that we continue to move forward we don't we don't uh take a step back I think the fire department over the past couple years has been moving forward solid and continue that um I think we're just in a bump in the road right now when we have to find another another Chief uh at this point in time but I want to make sure that you know the the firefighters and yourself and the deputy feel supported by this board um we will and I I believe we will act quick on it because we want to make sure that you know we have someone in in at least as a an interim Chief at at a point in time like you said we had that meeting edone has our numbers Edwin was very receptive everything and they understand we have a job to do for the D we keep doing our job thank you thank you thank you you accepting res I'm okay except the resolation based on what assistant chief Fernandez said I feel agre I'm happy explanation you know especially the meeting that they had with the department and um I feel comfortable moving forward and are you waving the 60 day notification I don't think we we need to it gives us a chance to again is to pursue quicker than because if if I I think if we don't accept this time we don't find an interm Chief we don't start searching for a new Chief so I think we should just accept it now so we can start the time frame start moving forward and right now you know and move on to the next chapter for the fire dep I agree I just uh I don't know if it's just me but I just if you have a fire chief and then you have assistant chief below don't you pay that assistant chief to then take over for the fire chief not necessarily they can say no I don't want to do it but I thought that's why they're named assistant chief no the assistant chief to assist the chief some people may decide they want it some people don't there's been many departments where someone's the assistant chief and doesn't want to be chief for whatever reasons so okay so I will make a motion to accept the uh fire chief O'Neal's resignation and void his 60 days making it effective the acceptance effective today immediately and not as of January 20 wave wave his notice as required and is wave the 60 days notice as required I'll second a motion any further discussion no discussion all in favor I I public comments tonight Chief or no we were not accepting public comments the next select board meeting is the 16th we can public comment on the issue point on the 16 well they they'll be citizen part Cen participation issue no and and that to your point sir that the board recognizes that that's one of the reasons why I think it's important that this board um reassures that everything's everything is okay in the fire department right now and uh based on uh what um the assistant chief Fernandez has told us I think the boort feels comfortable at this point in time moving forward after they just had a meeting last night uh with um the firefighters and the EMTs and I think if any of them have any concerns are questions I'm sure they'll reach out to a board member but there will be um citizen participation at the next meeting and you're more welcome to speak about whatever you like to speak about at that time it won't be uh it won't be um won't be on our agenda to discuss uh the fire department we may have an our agenda to discuss um how we're going to move forward with the um inter term Chief and a um a new Chief that's December 16th yeah all right so Chris now the posting that you have for us we just have to review it because this I gave it to the board so you can see what we put out last that we you would have a chance to review it and decide if you want to any we change so before we put it out advertisement again I I think we when we put out last time I think it's still good don't think I have I mean obviously the salary would gone up in the past two or three years just I just put it out to you but I think we we we took a lot of information from um I think I the fire chief Association we're not sure Associated or not but when this was being written last time make sure that we covered everything that is needed for a fire chief at that time do you know what the average is right where you where you are what the size of the apartment well we can find that out I got a imagine now it's it's over 100,000 and Chris when you post it how many um weeks do you have to give them do you post it and then because right here it says well this was an old one right just happens to be around that time yes okay that was back in yep yes so four weeks do you guys usually do depends on the position right three to four probably be a good good idea yeah I think we four weeks we do a solid month I think that's what we get to the administrator's position yeah so so we want to get this posted as soon as possible then now that we made it effective immediately so we would need to update the salary and then change the date for um when the application needs to be submitted so would you post it tomorrow or Monday and where are we posting I would wait till you you make your decision on Monday okay and then what I would do is um posted the next day so the 16th 17th yeah we probably do Monster again it seem we've gotten a good response in Monster for the administrators position and I probably do fire chiefs Association in Massachusetts and probably the MMA website and make it due January 14th that's four weeks prior or after the 17th yeah again I would say the same thing that we try to move forward and have everything in place for our next election difficult so I know it's December but Janu will be here quick and the new year will be a lot quicker as far spring so what about the hiring committee as well we can decide that either at the next meeting or the meeting for the screening morning by do I think it's important that we get this out sooner and later yeah that's why I brought to okay all right so next on the agenda is the wine hos permits yeah all right so attorney Costa we asked you to be here tonight for the permits for wiehoff because we had some questions for you can you hear Stu sure and and and I guess my only only warning is I see that youve posted a discussion of White House both on your on your Open Session agenda but also the potential for a meeting in executive session we've met once before an executive session then more imminently threaten mitigation um so the extent that you're going to be addressing existing licensing or permitting there is unrelated to Z violation very well may give rise to litigation uh then we should discuss those LIC you want to discuss um or continue the discussion previously relative to iment litigation so can I ask based on the letter that we drafted have you received any response from that applicant um so I'm happy to answer that if you want me to in Open Session but that clearly falls into the referen threat and litigation so we started our conversation in executive session continue it in executive session if you prefer to do it in Open Session that's okay too there's no pending litigation but there is imminently imminently thre so again I I defer to you if you want me to answer the question I'm happy to answer I think we should go into executive session if the other two board members I agree yeah I'm not sure what you're going to ask but I mean it needs to be an executive session I would recommend that before come out here if you do have questions about the pending license applications however those are open session discussions we can't go into executive session that potential inuence or the AIS license applications which are not the same as zoning violations that that could give rise to litigation so if you do have licensing questions we can discuss those now we can go into executive you can announce you're coming back out into Open session we can discuss those later in Open Session but those discussions are open session let's do those first let's do the entertainment the common Vic and the alcohol okay but what we will do we're going to discuss we probably should delay to our next actual meeting to take the vote on because you may want changes and the lording on the licenses okay okay get those out and I know this is a lot of um I guess where I'm confused attorney Costa is the issuance of these licenses on a building that was given a season toist I guess I'm confused at how this how I'm supposed to rule on this when I'm supposed to be sort of supporting our Building Commissioner so I guess that's why I thought it was a executive session based on our previous conversation let me let me try and address that without addressing matters that are more appropriate for executive session okay um there are and this is not anything that is confined to Executive session because there is has been a determination by your building that the property of is Sho is in violation of d and a letter has issued to that effect um multiple have issu to that exent those are are alleged zoning violations there is a process and a procedure for challenging uh zoning determinations with which a owner operator disagrees um and they is a process by which a municipality May pursue enforcement Z by viations if the notification of those violations are that's a whole area of law there are processes and procedures that are specific to zoning or LG zon when we talk about things like liquor licensing or common Victory licensing or entertainment licensing the key word there is life it's a different function not an issue of zoning it's an issue of a property um being licensed to sell alcoholic beverage or to provide energy or to sell food for consumption on a roite those are what those licenses allow now there's certainly an overlap if your property is not properly zoned for operating a a bar than seeking a liquor license to operate a bar a foring operate bar um those two things things would be seem to be inconsistent and when the liquor licensing Authority is asked issue the liquor license whether applicational application the board is entitled to consider a multitude of different things and deciding appropriate of issuing that license it could consider whether the proposed license prent is an appropriate place for a bar and one of the things that might decide or or consider is the fact that it's not zoned for a bar not the only thing could say okay it is zone for a bar but it's got residential homes all because it's it's been zon that way for a long time but it still has residences in the in the surrounding are it could determine that there are too many other license establishment to many other foring licenses in the immediate vicinity un there would be a high concentration there are a number of things that a lior licensing board can consider um but certainly zoning is one of them so there's that Overlook same thing with entertainment same thing with common Victory so when the board as I understand it does here and has not been involved today the board has received applications for liquor license biller license an entertainment license or renewals of those licenses for a use on its site that is not zon for that use that is something that the the board can take into consideration in deciding how on those on those license um now I would remind you that there are separate processes and procedures that apply to each of those license so the liquor licensing process is subject to a whole body of State statutes State regulation case law that defines how liquor licensing works there's a different body of law that address as com Victor licenses although it's much smaller body of law same thing with entertainment so you need to be sure that you're following the proper process that you din if you're going to deny a license particularly a license that has been issued before that is only before you want to Renewal you need to be sure that you're following proper procedures giving proper notice and opportunity to be heard things of that s um before you take action to let's say deny the light or to condition the light that's always an option when it comes to licensing liquor licensing natur that the liquor license could be conditioned so again I'll go to an example of a um a request for a liquor license to um to serve alcoholic beverages um might not be a bar it might be a different type of institution and you might determine that based upon the location you want to limit the hours of operation or the days of operation or the types of operations that are committed you could do that way is condition so whether that applies in a circum a circumstance like this um that's something that you need to discuss amongst yourselves whether be issued or renewed with conditions that would be consistent with the use of the property the permitted use of the property versus a prohibited use of the property that's a discussion we so yes there's overlap but it's not one doesn't preclude the other an applicant needs um all permits approval rules that are required to carry on a certain use so if that used as a bar it doesn't do any good if the zoning says a bar is allowed if they don't have a liquor doesn't do any good if they have a liquor license but theying a location where a bar would be a prohibit the applicate that requires all the necessary permissions and relief to conduct a certain operation on a certain all right so given that information the entertainment license I think needs to be conditional at the very least um right now it says on there Saturday through Sunday noon to 9:00 p.m. so I know that we're just discussing it tonight but the applicant has said before that they don't play anything after 6 p.m. so why isn't that changed to 6 p.m. for the first one Chris also mentioned the last time about the tasting Barn there's no description of the building size of the building like we have on other ones for the LI okay so if we ask the applicant to do it on here it has to be for everyone for the entertainment licens in I think we should yeah that's again that's the board's call because I believe uh Mr Trump he has held fundraisers there and he's used entertainment as a means of getting a crowd in there so are you just going to limit the entertainment to inside the tasting Baron or you're going to allow it to occur outside during fundraising EVS you know you don't want to restrict the business owner either so much that the business is going to fail right okay the business owner has a right to try and make a living make a profits and you're trying to walk a fine line between the rights of the business owner and the rights of the ser NE which I think to go to uh the point of attorney Costa is the zoning it's residential so there's overlap there which makes it difficult and and Madam chair I know that it was the that licing but not necessarily moving to a vote tonight and I do think that's why is because as we further discussed um in executive session some of the particulars of the Zone violation and actions that may or may not be taken I I think that some of that be relevance to how allegedly can be used or may not be used that kind of goes hand in hand again with the extent to which you're granting these licenses or the extent to which you're licenses or the extent to which you're conditioning these licenses um there's relationship and some of the information that I have to share in executive session I think will be will be helpful to you okay does anyone else have questions about the entertainment license I I don't I think he has it pretty well cleared out I think too we could ask the applicant too I mean what hours if it's not 8:00 p.m. for can do it was at 900 p.m. he had it on here at 900 p.m. but he said at meetings he stops music at 6 p.m so I just asked that if that something wants to modify or not that piece and then any questions on the common viix license or any discussion on that I don't think anything the kind license and that's really to sell business and again he runs fundraisers and he uses the S truck to come in and be able to have food bearing the fundraising activities it's not like I I don't believe there's one there every every I think it's just during the special event SE right so I don't see an issue regarding allowing the food truck to come on site to be able to offer and they all go through their necessary have trucks to yes I agree I don't have the alcohol I don't know why I didn't put it in here Chris but I don't have the alcohol one on me well the alcohol one on every other alcohol license there's a complete description of the license promises right on the two alcohol licenses For The Wine House that just says 16 E Street I think I just like to be able to have it agree with what the other ones are saying the point you made about the 266 Lounge talked about the size of the area talk how many floors how many floors talked about their picnic areas where where the alcohol will be served consumed to be that and that's considered the areas that they can serve are poor right their product okay and just saying the tasting bars doesn't really give a good enough description we things of the board to try and enforce a violation occurs yeah in my yeah Jim try Ted Street H with the wine house um so I don't know if attorney aost is aware it was new legislation that just came out this year up until then the state dictated where the pouring works and there was a question of it last year Kathy called uh the assistant administrator called the abcc to get clarification of what I was licensed for was a as of I don't know they was this year the state's been inundated because after Co many of the restaurants downtown were applying for these licenses every year to to be able to serve sidewalk so on so stat said it's just too much so they kicked it back to the municipalities so there was a designated ative but I'd be more than happy to to clarify that seeing that the the town was now and I think I think the additional information for the board is helpful and then as far as the entertainment and the hours of operation I specifically asked to be open from 12: to 9: entertainment typically starts stops at 6 and then we close the doors by that 9:00 gives us a little bit of a yeah but the entertainment license would be for bands and tjs K okay live entertainment or well that's what yeah we're band yeah live ENT well sometimes you has acoustical guitars I think things that in a band I just singing but I just I think so the the t is so if I think if it's saying it's done by six o'clock then I think it's fair that the license goes till 6 that doesn't talk about how long you're open till it just talks about entertainment would be done at that time and the other blue trucks back to the C they weren't allowing ests to be open without food important to have food there especially if there's there's a large we can't we can't keep up with what we s there the larger all right I don't have any other questions for the as long as we clarify it all and permits yeah with a little detail on it so because we're not making any uh decisions on this till December 16th do we wait to ask the applicant to specify certain things or do we have him specify what we've asked so far it would be nice if you had it in advance so it could be put on the license so the board could endorse the license from the 16 okay is that a reapplication on Mr try's part with just the detail added just give us the detail then what we can do is update the license of we're we're we're asking for additional information to consider a license Y and I know a huge issue with the surrounding um neighbors was the deplus so everyone not just this business but everyone should be adhering to the Mass General law noise ordinance of 60 DB so is that now something that we have to put on the entertainment licenses to make sure that everyone's following those as long as he's following our zoning by laws which was 70 DB but I think Mass 65 I think Mass General law supersedes any of our bylaws I don't see where it says 60 dises it was the DP see okay do we have an instrument that actually measures that I don't think we do I Know Chief ogrady said one of the officers went out and bought his own but we don't have one for the town and because he certified to operate and to calibrate it yes it's like the radar unit say you have to be certified and they have to recalibrate GBA changes time yeah if it's nighttime it carries louder is that what you mean or traffic or Sunday versus a Friday or something like that can get drops to oh I you're saying the regulations yeah at 6 o' right do you have any questions for us no I okay all right thank you thank you all right so we will now enter executive session 38-21 a-3 to discuss strategy with respect to collective bargaining or litigation if an open me if an open meeting may have a detrimental effect on the bargaining or litig litigating position of the public body and the chair so declares we call and will only come out to adjourn the original meeting so roll call vote duin I Leon I seon I thank you