##VIDEO ID:C2WWh-9Xe-s## all right this call is now being notated this call is now being transcribed this call is now being recorded we're going to have a transcript meeting notes we're going try you think that the AI did the legal advice for him too told him you have to say these things maybe yeah but don't sound too real oh is Craig here he's here okay yep you can see him right uh oh there on that one I can sorry yeah I'm some I'm some somewhere so here we go again let's see if I get this to is that it I just need to hit that harder you need to be more gentle I think that's well I did that and that didn't work either I think you just touch it is this like the fingerprint access and if your hands are cold it doesn't work oh that's probably what do you mean that's POS I didn't is that it huh did it go no it might be unplugged down there oh but way down oh underneath oh that's what's on this screen too if you want there you go oh my Heavens okay it's not I'm going to just every time just quick I'll just do it next time just don't worry about it yeah my job okay I don't know how to train on that cuz it's like how do you describe it I it's really impossible Wonder like how does she get up and do anything in the day oh these these screens are pesky yeah know they are well it's just every time I'm like I can't get this to open up okay here we are our first work session of this year MH thinking that infrastructure was one of the main focuses for this coming year and we have some individual issues as well um I thought this would be a good place for us to start um this isn't a Solutions evening decisions event it's just to do things like what does everybody think about when they think about infrastructure what's the endgame all of you might have in your heads what you know what do we want to accomplish with this what considerations issues opportunities do you see with this just try to get us all on to kind of know what we were thinking about this and why we feel it's important and then that will help later as we have other meetings and might can kind of formulate what kinds of things do we need to know about and just where we want to head and but this is a chance for us to just talk about it in really broad terms um we were going to talk about the lhb proposal for third street but it's not quite ready yet so that'll be later and I also asked Mike because when we had our goals conversation I went back and looked at our meeting notes from that night and we had talked Mike had brought up the capital Improvement plan which would would probably needs refresh um and that fits in with infrastructure and I thought all of us could probably use a little primer or refresher on what we have or what Mike's had in the works and thoughts on just so we're all current on what has he has been because I suppose we think of infrastructure sometimes as as new opportunities but we have things already that need to be taken care of too as well so that's how I viewed this time are there other parts within infrastructure that anyone thinks we don't want to miss that we make a note of to talk about yeah start okay um um I suppose I should pull up that agenda piece um look for M note um so I'll stay on I mean I guess you know just starting off with where where we're already committed be good to know know the things we're already saying we're going to do okay as so we'll put that on there as an an added um well and that's part of like that suppose fits under the will our efforts produce in 20126 on awareness of our current commitments yeah okay and so besides the the CIP other commitments we have that relate to infrastructure is that what you were suggesting yeah just you know okay I don't no I mean there there are things that are obvious that that we have been talking about here at the council level I imagine there other things that we're committed to doing that that we may not be talking about that much okay that are just ongoing behind the scenes that we're just like okay so maybe Mike has that maybe helps Mike not to put you in the spot I mean whatever you does that make sense what I makes perfect sense yeah okay I wonder if it would be useful to not think about the CIP right away in this meeting okay and don't because that's jargony and I'll I'll talk a little bit about what that actually means what we're actually going to do what you're going to have to to be involved in uh towards the end of the meeting but maybe we start at the beginning with just don't worry about the how we do it or what we do just the the big picture like what in in simple language like that is perfect just what will our efforts produce in 2026 or a long term and you know look at 2040 maybe as long term what are you thinking just one or two sentences about what were you thinking when this came up and what are you thinking now um um so let's say in well maybe we don't even have to be that grounded so yeah what's your vision what do you envision could be results or actions or what might this what does this mean to take action so how do we um do do we have the do we have enough people and if we're going to talk about expanding at all what is the plan for that right how do we uh how do we make sure that we can support it so that would be some of our considerations that we'd want to be thinking through around infrastructure just to kind of categorize it which hopefully our notes are going to do for us anyways yeah I hear that is a similar thing to what you said Michael too which is just what are our current commitments meaning do we have the resources we need to take care of the things we already have Y and resources like you said isn't just like literal things it's our staff are you know the human resource element part of it too um to clarify that yeah all right that's good um what other things do people Envision what results you what do you see by focusing on infrastructure what what might be our endgame or our benefit to doing that or what might it lead to for us yeah I I mean I'm hopeful that we can come up with you know a framework that allows us to kind of you know to know where we're going you know to know like hey this is what we're trying to do but also more importantly for like people who are developing places to know like what is Our intention what are we trying to do um a as a city you know to make sure that they know like yeah like you're 100% on the hook you're not you know whatever you know whatever our um stance is that it's really clear for people so they know and um but that we're also clear about Our intention like yeah we that we do want to expand it we do want it to be you know we want to you know keep what we got in good order but we also are ready to expand out to you know include new properties that are that are out there and so when a developer is developing you know we can have a conversation and they know where they stand and we already have done our background enough to know where we stand when they come to us they're like yeah we've talked about it and here are some of the things we would like from you yeah i' I'd be C I'd like to know how how other communities maybe handle that that that cost burden what you know how how does that get get shared doesn't get shared um you know is that something that's that's an option is there special bonding options that we have that that they other developers maybe wouldn't have or would we want to jump into a project that's a certain size or scope right whereas maybe we wouldn't done some smaller ones I don't know right um um expanding if if expansion is is is desirable where would that be where would where would you get the most Bay for your buck for literally like yeah maybe physically right being intentional about that right right um that's always interesting me too is is finding out what other communities with similar um you know attributes to us um how they handle these and what they've done and yeah always find out I always like to know that as well um yeah finding that out is be fascinating because it is I don't know that's always the tough thing you know of balancing like you know there's some private benefit for people you know if we the city does their piece and adding infrastructure but it's also something we want you know we do want to encourage that um developments and what have you that have occurred so but getting it right so it's not so much on everybody else yeah it was at a recent planning zoning conversation and I'm not sure if it was if it was before or after or whatever but I think there was some some talk about utilities and how in some of these some of these development Agreements are not necessarily spelled out in the way that um like roads and putting in road infrastructure and some of that it's like that's I mean do you remember that was it was it Anton sharing some of that stuff with us or like there was some oh was that that there were concerns about how utilities might be handled in those and and how they're engineered versus the road's a simple thing right but it's it's how do we who's taking care of the utilities and how are those being installed or enduring in conjunction with or just better understanding about cuz that's infrastructure right so yeah who's doing it who's who's doing it who's providing the the upkeep again upkeep and yeah in the sense of like what's typically the way it happens or just is that mean or I just yeah maybe just to better understand how it's how it's what we're currently doing that and um okay it's probably a simple yeah but again yeah just making that really clear for art well for ourselves and for anybody who's come to us yeah yeah or and I certainly like I don't supp like do we look at that stuff differently per project or is there sort of a standard way you approach these things or you do have to be I don't know and a lot of times you'd hear Jason making commentary and I realize we we just don't do this enough he's done Jason ell done more of this and kind of has a sort of a better approach to it so I think there's huge learning opportunities of course then with our luck nothing will come our way but anyways yeah yeah might might be a dry spell but seems like things are happening yeah just kidding yeah I did that Murphy's a lot right yeah I think the more we can educate ourselves as far as the processes and what are we specifically talking about and and what is the background in in providing infrastructure what is our responsibility the more appt we're able to to to deal with developers and potential projects as they unfold or become yeah mhm mhm it's true and I don't know you know if that means more you know like online attending seminars or going to organizations conferences that deal with this that you know whatever but um so there's that's way to handle that um Ty thing um is there like I think now because we I used to always think well if you want a cabin you have it Inland on a lake or you're on the big lake right but that's not the case anymore we have a bunch of cabins right here in town and then we have some short stays and of course we have a regular lodging and we will only have so much space to our community so I wonder what will this community look like in 10 years or 20 years how much of it will be a community anymore people who don't live here don't vote they aren't involved in the day you know they aren't seeing the daytoday things that are going on who does you know it's just natural you can't have your nose and everything you might look in your own neighborhood where you live but you don't necessarily have the bandwidth their time to pay attention where you don't live and um that's a concern for for me is how do we and what part does this play in it I don't know completely but how do we make sure we still have a community here and not just which I've started to call an unorganized Resort out of this and you know I pulled some stats and I'm not done fiddling with about how many homes we have here and how many of them are homesteaded MH and that kind of piece and and just where does that leave us um and I'm talking about affordability just and I a small town doesn't function unless everyone kind of pitches in we'll never have the money to buy Services let alone hire them you know the people to do it but what makes people like living in a small town and what makes it function is the people who live there doing so much for a community and that's one of the re another reason why I get concerned and then after a while who wants to be here I mean if if we can't make sure we still have homesteads in the sense of people who live here and how does infrastructure um affect that yeah well I mean I guess how do you how do you think it does affect that I mean how do those connect well that's you know like I I'm not sure like I don't know if we I'm just saying like oh you're you're okay soes well yeah I mean we have zoning options we have ordinance options um let's say we did decide as a city we were going to take a plot of land and be sort of like the developer kind of or you know kind of say put this out here let's get some this is the area we want you to go here yeah and then you know would we do something around that to make sure it was for people who wanted to be living here I I'm not saying that's what I'm Advocate yeah I'm trying to think it through yeah like I'm not sure either how any of this affects it but when I Envision a future that's one of the things that I get concerned about um and and how we do do that I'm I'm not sure and I yeah um yeah I yeah I don't know well it's it's a good uh way to think about the long-term benefit question is do you see infrastructure as a tool to serve that long-term Vision I andan that's part of the one of the things you need to be asking yourselves and to translate that into maybe something more specific um given all those factors that Tracy just identified that we all are very well aware of is it realistic that we're going to build our way into a different outcome or not like if we build 25 new houses is it going to be the same ratio where 40% of those are second homes and then so is the expansion of infrastructure really getting us towards that goal or not is something worth considering and and then also when some of the other issues who's responsibility we talking about shared costs and and you know when we do participate financially in a project are we getting what we want back from it then is more housing units enough for us to invest does it have to be affordable for us to invest do we need to have it be something else like it's homesteaded for us to invest make sure that our investments are pointing towards that direction that you want to be aiming and I think good news is maybe it's bad news too but I think it's mostly good news all the things that you've brought up tonight we've already looked at you've already seen um you've already talked about and this is good like that we're identifying issues that we know there are there is information out there to look at and answer and it's like a great list of topics for the next five work sessions to just go into detail on some of those questions Craig yeah I'm sorry no you did you have some yeah yeah I think of uh like following up with Ben was talking about um you know what kind of uh like I just wrote down some things here like areas to improve we have we may have easy areas we can improve within our city we may have hard areas we can improve improve on um if we're going to you know then I start thinking about okay look at Humphrey Circle for example that's in the city limits and look at the other one that's going in next to Humphrey circle is that going to be 12 houses I think 12 or 15 12 those are private those are private roads right with um City Utilities but private City Utilities like privately maintained yeah privately maintained um as far as the electrical lines and that kind of stuff if there's an outage up there that's a buried line who fixes it for example do does is it did the city take ownership of that over yeah that's typical but let's I'll try not to answer so many questions rather we're still listing them right yeah we're just yeah yeah no I'm just you know I'm just saying I'm thinking of you know I'm thinking when I develop some land when I developed land up on Cho Lake I put 6,000 ft of buried wire into some lots and Raa made me pay for everything do all the work and buy the wire from them but when it was done um they maintain the line you know what I'm saying any problem with the line any problem with anything electricity it's their repair bill they took it over so I'm just saying that's kind of an example different examples of how things are maintained and taken over I I guess I just you know the thing I look at is you know like if you're talking about like long-term Vision um it's hard to say what utility Investments are going to look like in a long term um I think if we don't have uh there's got to be grow both business-wise there has to be maybe some industrial growth of some kind to bring in uh these higher paying jobs you know it would be nice when you're going to build out infrastructure like that that it actually brings families into our communities that have children that go to school um those are the things that I think about you know we we seem to bring in we're bringing in a lot of people into our community whether through summer vacations or homes or seasonal wck homes those things like Tracy do about but you know they're not putting anybody in our school district so what is the overall gain that we get out of this are we going to get a a little percent of this here and there I mean I I just kind of think you know it's kind of a mixture of what you might get out of it of course but you know thinking about development within our city um you know first thing I think of right away is what's the current status of the systems that we have right now what kind of shape are they in you know like we already talked about projects that are being forecasted out this year next year 26 27 um you know then the next big thing I think about is the sewer plant project um that's a huge project it's going to cost a lot of money to do and um are we going to do infrastructure projects for infrastructure needs for other developments without taking a look at what we have to do to that how we spend our money on stuff like that that's the thing that I that I think about you know and you know also are you going to have a special Levy or are you going to special assessments on property owners to do some of this stuff that's the whole scope I think of the infrastructure conversation how do you do it so that it's received positively and that people can understand that there's a long-term gain here you know on stuff that we decide to do I guess I don't know yeah you know you brought up things too which I was thinking this is one of those to be unspoken so let's click you know we better say it out loud that's part of another reason why I thought these are good conversations cuz you're thinking things in your head and you don't say everything and it's this assump you know it's just how you communicate right so this to me is right away are we talking just about housing or Craig has brought up um business related commercial infrastructure so are we all clear about what we're talking about what's Rolling In Our Heads about that do we need is it both that we're thinking about I mean any anything right it's hard to do that about the future and I think that I like the idea of the organic development like if somebody came in with something you know said like hey I want to build a whatever some sort of Manu light manufacturing you know whatever like well yeah let's talk about that you know let's let's see what we can do let's get together on that I mean I think to me I think that would be a a normal natural way I mean yeah there might be some areas of the city we might think about for you know developing um you know homes like that's a little easier to see like we know where R1 is we can see all the pink space that's you know open right now um and I mean I do have to point out the business park you know we did have an intention there and it's kind of been used but but not entirely in the way that we had planned and so you know I think trying to predict that is hard but certainly having an intention and laying out like hey we in intend to support development but here are the rules or here's our plan or this is our vision and if they match then we can talk and then people know where they stand too they can feel like oh maybe we won't go [Music] there well and and part of it was just even just generally say like yeah infrastructure means commercial and residential and also I think what you guys were talking about too is if we did if we did take the lead and Tred to H you know get a project going going as opposed to waiting for someone to just come to us you know which you just have to be really clear I guess as we move forward and have that conversation what's I'm really talking about not a plan us doing whatever yeah yeah okay is there zoning that that would allow that you would be required to have a homestead save that question for a different meeting there are things you can do to property to do that yes and there are communities very similar to ours with the same issues that have done some of that for that very reason to retain homes for people who work and live in their communities because they've already acknowledge they can't build their way out of the problem because of the costs and I primarily look at um when I try to read what's going on I look at um ski communities out west because they're all B ordered by National Force as well they have limited space like us for which then you can't build anymore and um they have seasonal employment right and all their businesses are seasonal and they need that kind of Staff just like we do and then they have a lot of people with money like we do that come here and love this place and want to have a home and that's not a new story or you know commentary but it's just a similar deal and so they have those same problems we do so commonly I Look to them because they have Colorado in particular has tried some very different thing very different Steamboat to Aspen cruster to trying some very different things veale as well um on trying to do that and housing their zoning It's a combination of okay they've used some of they got a um a VAR I don't know if you call it a variance is the right word but they were able to access some of their um tourism tax dollars to um put into some housing because they realized if they didn't give housing for their sta you know employees work in the businesses you know it's the same thing we have here right that they their businesses were not going to function so they did that in Vil and they have land trusts and some you know all those little we used to be little pocket mining towns around Veil and and what became Beaver Creek some of those and now I've cten quite big and I was reading about one or two of them have some great land trusts and just a lot of different things um other communities have done including compensating um sellers um with some dollars if they would put a covenant in that to Homestead it for a certain amount of years afterwards because that's still cheaper than buying a new home or you know building a replacement home so I don't know that's just few things that have caught my eye so that goes back to Ben's thing you got to go out there and read what other people are doing I'm not saying you do the same thing but it might put some light bulbs on about what a person could do if that's that's just one you know particular issue but anyways is there you know if we focus on infrastructure what are the what are some of the things you think would be opportunities or you know the positives of doing that for our community what what would what are the things you know reason why you're motivated to think we should do and I don't mean like create our own projects but just you know try to make some things happen I guess or if you want to tackle that one with a slightly different approach we do have brainstorming tickets for each of you and we said consider considerations right about infrastructure or infrastructure projects and that really has a wide range of meaning there's no definition anything is a correct answer and we've gotten some you've got pen and paper right what's that you can take a few notes you've got pen and paper yes I do so why don't we just take the next two minutes and everybody write down on their sticky notes one item per note considerations when it comes to infrastructure project projects this can be anything like I'm worried about this I'm excited about this uh remember to do this it can be let's put a green slide on the park uh playground to uh we need to have a plan for the what the neighborhoods are going to look like in 2060 just anything you want and let's see where people's minds are right now I'm going to do it too CU I'm pretty sure I can come up with a few so the first one will be I like considerations better than issues because issues always sound like it's a problem but considerations are just things rolling around in your head you watch the clock for us Patrick yeah two minutes yeah for [Music] is [Music] for for [Music] how'd you do I don't think I did very well at all I didn't have any real projects in mind I I had 50 but I didn't write about any of them I I wrote nine things I'll start these are supposed to be projects no they're not supposed to be anything you can do whatever you want so here's what I did and while I'm saying these you can just go ahead and write a few more down if they sure if they come to you you had you already said some good ideas though yeah and I just was going through the same stuff what did you just say safety oh safety outside funding opportunities oh yeah support Community Vision public awareness fix what we have design budget neighbor involvement mhm Community image oh sweet you stated some of those better than I did yeah um okay current infrastructure something yeah and then I designate areas for Housing Development does it have a I think it's idea okay and then just new housing yeah increase housing stock oh yeah tax capacity restricted intentional zoning and then your maintenance planned yeah I'm going to move tax capacity buet yeah do we have anything it's commercial related specifically I this by not really no all right just just okay the rest say commercial and Broadband when you guys talked about like manufacturing bra to me the only product will ever do well putting down the the shore which you never really capitalize on is through our Broadband which we do at very cost effective and we just are so lucky to have that and great potential thinking of what we have currently before adding more nothing wrong with that that's this right here this P what' you have what' you write well the reliability of the power and then the capacity of Wastewater yeah I think they're limiting factors before we start piling on a whole bunch of mhm new stuff and you know I was going to ask is are we this is roads too or are we really just talking about well roads are I mean I would say they're include we just haven't been talking about specifically I want to use that as segue to the next thing okay but first let's just finish this so my observations about this wait did we get Craigs oh CRA than we're gonna write for you Craig thank because I asked the same thing when it's time to Mike at our meeting on Tuesday you know we always just to talk about utilities but where do roads fit in this are they part of that or do we need need to say utilities and roads like I was doing the same thing like what it seems like go ahead Craig uh kind of kind of some of the things you had said Mike uh first thing I said like R1 production mixed use those kinds of things that we're dealing with kind of right now um density what we want it to look like which you brought up the other thing I thought of is you know for many many years we operated under a certain planning planning and zoning rules and regulations and now we have new ones so now we're mixing old zoning with new zoning ways and ideas and how is that going to look and affect how our city builds out or looks like um cost design um and how do these projects benefit the community and not just a developer yeah you know the need the need for what people bring in and want to do whether it's commercial or whatever you know um and one thing that I just blew my mind that I was just thinking about is i' always you know listen to my dad talk every time we were doing something that had to do with businesses whatever you know it's like we live in a tourism area okay now these are issues that I know that this city's been working with for the last 40 years that I've lived in this town so you know when you're tourism orientated and you just don't have an industry that comes in and changes that Focus it's like Tracy said like these places out west they're uh constantly dealing with how do we get housing for people to work in these businesses that we need and you know that's like an ongoing thing it just keeps on going and going and going but it's just it's it's the hand we've been dealt that's just it that's the bottom line I think you know and I yeah and it's been an evolution it used to be our young people in our own Community like us could fulfill a lot of that but we they can't anymore it can't be done by the people who live here at all we really need all those foreign workers that come here yeah well yeah I mean you know when I when I grew up we didn't have that of course 27 27 years I ran the station it was kind of weird how I noticed that I mean I remember when I was a kid going to high school I you know we all worked everybody worked get out of school you go to work boom boom boom everybody all the kids worked then I started thinking man lot of these kids aren't working anymore I mean what the heck's going on well then I started looking at an enrollment at the school and I started looking at well how many kids are in the nth grade in the 10th grade in 11th grade in the 12th grade well you know it's half to at one time 30% of what we graduated well we didn't have a bad we had 100 Kids maybe 85 90 but you know enrollment has dropped so much during a a period of time there that there just wasn't the inventory kids to work so that makes it hard too you know Y and the other thing I the other thing I thought of is infrastructure is just because this happened last week when I got 20 below is power grid you know I want to make sure we have a power grid um y that can handle things that we build you know if we're going to build 40 50 new Department buildings that are on electricity and all these new things coming online with electricity if we get a 7 or 10 or 12 days of 20 below weather are we going to sustain that that's the thing that bothers me that I want to make sure that we have those things in place to maintain that type of thinking or that type of forward project that we want to do you know yeah all right man Craig you killed it good nice work thank you Craig lots of good stuff um let's talk about power grid for 42 seconds so a good opportunity to just put this message out there again when when we first had that outage we did not know the cause and the load was high at the time as you know as high as we've seen it not like Rec but it was high uh so we put that message out just in case like that was one of the ideas our staff had that could have been a contributing factor it was not a iting Factor so the outage was not related to capacity in any way and we know we have significant ability to provide excess capacity of power of the three of them is the one I'm least concerned about uh but know that we're talking about capacity in all of them we're not going to lose those ideas that you've got up here on any of these things so to switch to the board you have um the most notes about that issue and capacity is really just one piece it but it's the idea that are we taking care of the things that we already have committed to take care of do we have the resource to do it do we have the plan to do it that's great to hear from you because that really is 2third or more of what a capital Improvement plan is maybe three4 or more so that's great news what are the other things that got a lot of attention uh what do we look like density design uh what do we want to look like um what else got some attention what's it cost do we have the budget to pay for it um are we creating tax capacity just the financial implify which I'm also happy to see which is hey there's an awareness that infrastructure is only one tool that we have in the toolbx we have other tools too to deal with these problems and almost all of the things that we're striving for with Community Vision take a combination of things including the rules that we have that's your maybe your most powerful tool so great we'll keep all these things though and with the idea that when we schedule future work sessions to talk about infrastructure maybe we'll just pick off one category at a time and start talking about those in a lot more detail I like too that you know Craig's comments and yours might bring us back to the fact of why we're here and what our main responsibilities are to take care of what we have we're running an operation really it's like a business and our business is electricity water sewer what you know streets um at the core and that's what a lot of our staff are attending to so um it's a good reminder you want to throw this up on the screen too Patrick We're not if you want to look at this in much more detail you can I'm just going to show it to you as an example of we've seen this map before yes we have uh we've had this conversation before the context was who should pay for infrastructure should we allow private infrastructure what's going on with infrastructure and this map is all of the infrastructure projects that we've done infrastructure in this case meaning streets Water and Sewer mainly focusing on utilities uh in the past 20 years 23 now all the green stuff is replacing things that were already there so the fix what we have is the majority of what we have done in the past 23 years when it comes to infrastructure uh the purple is build brand new everything brand new roads brand new utilities brand new everything uh and there isn't anybody that's being assessed to pay for it there's other methods that we've used to pay for it it's a speculative uh installation of in our case we only paid four utilities for on the Gunflint Trail but the county paid for the road to reroute it in the business park it was a shared between the city and the county speculative nature and we're paying that debt still uh the Orange is places that we in extended utilities so we're going to grow into new neighborhoods they were already zoned residential most of the orange already had existing housing although there was a little bit on the lower Lev left where it was new and now is practically built out at this point and there were assessments charged for those new utilities and that uh blue is private development of new city streets and utilities uh not a lot of that in the past 23 years and what is that blue that is humphy circle humphy cirle yeah private developer that came in and the private developer paid for all the improvements and the improvements are all public and the P we are responsible for maintenance of them and then those are just lots that are sold based on the rules that the city has and then the last is the yellow is extensions of streets and utilities that are private so the roads and the utilities here are privately owned and maintained they were built this way because uh the properties were difficult you would have had a really hard time meeting are standards to have a 66t RightWay for instance and still serve them and they're small enough that you probably don't need that to really do a good job so the one on the upper right is Cent sites and the one on the lower left is Wonder housing um at the down at the end of Second Street there's other housing that's been built investors that want to see projects happen and if we're one of those investors or we have an H that is uh you know that maybe we'll be a part of those too but but that's what the ratio has looked like and probably will continue to look like and just um while we're talking about this sort of one off but back to considerations I've heard different Council people BR bring up when we've had these conversations you know should they be private development and then what happens if they land back in our laps should they be always up to you know kind of a question now should be up to the public stand can we allow a smaller Road or whatever or should they always be at City requirements you know on that risk so I just want to make sure we keep that as some of our considerations yeah well and I I think maybe that's on a Post-It note but it's now is to me that's it sticks right between the budget question and the take care of what we own question yeah that's the the Continuum that exists in my mind is are we capable of taking on more it probably also fits a little bit into this what do we want to look like but yeah and I thought you know we had the the one roof housing experience and I thought in our conversation that we had that you said like yeah not again definitely not like we've we've clearly modified our approach based on that not to say we wouldn't do another private development no no and one roof has modified their approach too like there were things that they learned about that project that they probably won't repeat as well right have like a two-page summary on that I I don't but uh it would be a good learning scene we talked about well I mean I've just got two bullet points how about that like we don't have as builts that we can use to locate where things are so when people want to come and ask us about developing more property at the end we're not an asset to that conversation we're not really a partner to it because we don't know we should know so from all from there on like all of the projects even if we do private we're making sure that we end up with as builts of everything even if we don't own it and then the other part is who is responsible for maintaining it when one roof was here at the table it was easy to see them as the responsible party as its aged it's pretty clear there needs to be a local organization that is the people living there that has to take a more active role and I don't think there was a good translation from their project but that's something now when we do future projects we make sure we understand that up front so there's two things we learned yeah could write that in two pages I guess but okay well I just thought you know rather be a good easy thing for us to read and go oh okay and learn too you know be current about it we want to so now um Capital Improvement planning for us at the staff level that's going to take a really um far more detailed approach than it is for you so what is it in its Essence we inventory our assets all of them this means anything from an expensive piece of equipment to the furniture in a building to the pumps in a in a water treatment plant to pieces of pavement and pipes in the ground like all the things that we own we inventory them we have a condition assessment for the things that we own and we have an expected life and an expected replacement cost of the thing things that we own that is the basis of the capital Improvement plan that creates the understanding about how do we take care of what is ours our current commitments most of the budget that we have that's capital budget is designed around that very question do we have enough resources to take care of fixing the things that are ours um how does that translate into your conversation now because you're going to bring into the picture more more of this level of looking which is not just to fix what we own but also are we pointed in the right direction are these Investments supporting the way that we want the city to look and operate and the bringing the things to the city that we think need to be brought here so uh how do those two things come together in the past we've had a say half a day work session where department heads will come and provide you with a report on the what do we own side of things and what's its conditioned side of things and give you a not a super detailed but a high level understanding of that here's here's everything that my department is responsible for and here's its relatively you know here's its relative condition and then we go through some exercises where we talk about the Community Vision and we understand again what are we aiming for and then we go through some exercises where we start saying well what knowing what we know now the condition of our stuff and the what we're aiming for which projects make sense which ones should we do and we'll go through brainstorming and categorizing and prioritizing until we have decided yep that makes sense this is what we're going to do and we'll end up with really two different types of product the one which is here's the big projects that we need to make sure we understand how we're going to pay for that we're communicating to the community and to the outside world this is what our priorities are that which if we were to look at what that looks like right now would be the wastewater treatment plan right something like that and then the other side of it which is how do the Departments operate their facilities and if you come to the Pu meeting next week we're going to talk about three Investments we're putting into the water treatment plant for instance and that that kind of project which doesn't really rise to the level of the council needs to weigh in on it it's something that a another board's going to deal with and really it's more of a even a staff level de detail like we need to do this project to fix this one thing and a lot of that is what the capital Improvement plan is going to mean for department heads this year okay that's broader I was just thinking about your streets yeah there's much much more much to it than that makes sense yeah yeah um so part of this for me what was helpful is trying to get an idea of what you meant when you said infrastructure versus what I meant when I said infrastructure so now I hope that you heard a little more about what I think we're going to do what I'm intending to do but we're going to make sure that we try to address these questions at the same time well look at that it's 6:28 and we wondered if we'd fill an hour um is this a good start not a good start is some other yeah yep good start um I didn't get it on the list but I want to bring up our can we get some standing work sessions so that it isn't uh hard you know I always have to see if we have time like we can get it on a calendar and then we can cancel if we don't need it but we could at least make it easier for the city office if we're willing to have work sessions on a regular basis I watched your eyes get really big with excitement um so I'll just leave it that uh think about that and then we'll talk about it shortly why not as we did this time why not have it as you said like we could just have it be that first hour ahead of a regular meeting and if we don't need it then we just drop it but then at least it's sitting there and most of us I mean sometimes I work up to that last minute but sometimes I don't and okay if I know ahead of time once a month sure should we say the first meeting second meeting second meeting would be better okay why okay because the first meeting is also the monthly simpa meeting if I have any chance of actually attending one in person and getting back in time then do that 6:30 was better time 5:30 okay yeah that sounds good is that okay correct make you guys wait you're not wait you're not we're running late so you're fine we're going to make you wait yeah your meeting hasn't even started yet okay Craig does that sound sound doable yeah is that right yeah can shoot for it okay yep we can it's easier to cancel than it is to get one organized yeah so I'm sure save Patrick and Mike okay thank you all right so we need to end this meeting okay right I mean you have to yeah it is going to take me a minute to get reset you're going to hang up on Craig and make him link to another meeting yeah yeah sorry Craig CRA we're tuning you out Craig man you disconnected your phone from the meeting busy day Ben busy afternoon