We're live. >> Ready. >> All right. Let's call the meeting to order. >> Uh, okay. >> First of all, the agenda was distributed ahead of time. >> Uh, I my understanding is is that we've
informally agreed to have the soil and water presentation first rather than waiting till the end of the agenda. So, you are >> Hello, I am Elena Hansel. I'm the district manager and the watershed planner with Cook County Soil and Water Conservation District.
>> Steve, just just a quick timeout on the on the just the point of order where we want to approve the agenda and the October minutes. >> Oh, that's a good idea. >> Yeah, >> let's do that. Is there with that amendment to the agenda? Is there a
unanimous agreement to the agenda as modified? All right. And then the minutes were distributed. Uh, >> are the minutes okay? >> Has everybody had a chance to read them? >> Has everybody had a chance to read the minutes? >> Kay says they're okay.
>> Anybody want to suggest any differences? >> Nope. >> All right. Then the record will reflect that we approve them unanimously. >> Thank you. Okay. >> Now we can welcome our guest. >> Why don't you begin speaking?
>> All right. Thank you. I can do that. Um, thank you for having me here. Uh, as I mentioned, I work for the conservation district and um, we have a lot of different roles. I am here tonight because we would like to propose a project. There is a grant open with the Minnesota DNR and it works with
forestry, but it works with forestry that you can do in an urban area, which we're going to call city of Grimray urban, and also with adjacent properties and and just just do some forestry practices. And so I this is not my project. I'm speaking on behalf of my
staff who is unable to be here. So I will do my best to answer the questions. Um but what we would like to do is work with land owners along Sweethearts Bluff and heading west. So that property within Sweethearts Bluff and then heading west is really dense with balsam
like so dense that it's not a healthy forest and it is um just not good. It can be a fire hazard. the lack of biodiversity that's not beneficial for climate resiliency. And so what we'd like to do is uh work with the city and
the part that's the sweethearts bluff and um over again this is not my project. I'm doing the best I can here and do a treatment of for spruce budworm in that area. It's it's uh got quite a few dead and dying trees in it. And so what that treatment looks like is
cutting the trees down that need to be removed and then um they're not going to be removed offsite. That's costly and it's just not uh good practice. It's good just to stack them down low as we can or do chipping and do some sort of mulching. But the try to put the
nutrients back into the soil. So looking at um kind of mimicking what a fire would do except for it's not a fire, thank goodness, but putting those nutrients back in the soil. it's a very low nutrient soil area. And then um do some reveation. So looking at maybe white pine, a little bit of more white
spruce and other tree species that were not quite clarified at this time and look at not putting in that forest as dense as it is right now. So adding a little bit of biodiversity, age diversity and uh also putting in some
climate resilience plants but also looking at that fire reduction through the spruce budworm management. So what we are asking for is we are going to be we partner like to partner with the city and with other groups and we're looking for a letter of support
for this project. Um it is going to be happening next year if we were awarded the grant and we would take full uh project lead but also work with the park board and and whoever Dave would assign to us to work with and my staff are that
they're actually at a forestry training. Stephen Janice will be the lead. That's where he's at today. So they're trained in forestry. They're also able to tap in other experts if there are questions and there's no match required. So there's no cost for this for you all. It's an
opportunity just to come in and and do some forest management that hasn't happened because of just you know variety of reasons. >> How much do you hope the grant will be? >> I did not get that number from my staff yet. Um and I I don't know. So it can be
small, it can be large. Um this is forestry for me is new and I'm writing the grant so I will know by Friday because it's due uh the end of the day Monday for me. So I I'll let you know soon. Um, but I'm not sure what the total amount will be. So, and when we write grants, we do include, you know,
just we include our staff time. We are, even though we're government agency, we are 75% grant funded. So, we do always include our project time and then admin time to be fiscal agents and manage the grant. >> So, do you have a do you have an order
of magnitude for the size of the grant? I can you like the top cap of it or what is your question exactly? >> Arrange would do for today. >> I have I honestly I don't know because I don't I my staff I don't know I haven't
we haven't applied for a grant like this. So um we have to hire a certified uh person to be able to come in and do the work. I know just from the three trees removed at my house it was quite expensive. So, um, you know, this is a large area and I don't know what the what the costs will be. I don't know if
we can get a conservation corps crew sometimes can come in and help and that keeps costs down. Um, we will be discussing that uh in the next day or two. >> Do you be getting rid of any of the of the lumber that's fallen? >> Not at this point in time. The plan is
to keep that there to let it decompose to put nutrients in the soil so new vegetation can be established. Do do I infer that you might be using a wood chipper for some of it? >> Some of it they may be. Um, it sounds like the treatment is going to really vary depending on the amount of what's
there and what's needed. Um, and I'm sorry I can't answer all of these questions, so I'll do my best. But yeah, it's it's mulching, chipping, and and stacking. It's I don't think you're going to have everything stacked. So, >> have you said as much as you intend to say for today before we ask you more questions? >> Go for it. Yeah.
>> Are there more questions? Okay. Do you >> I go >> ahead. >> Um the project area I tried to zoom in on the map. >> Does it include the the part of the park that the trail goes around or is it
>> west of that? >> Uh the I mean the little the little paved the accessible trail >> the granite sand trail. It looks to me like it's kind of half and half. Like that's that the like northern
portion of that little trail is included, but the lakeside portion is not. >> Okay. >> But it's I think most of the the you know if if you look at the box and I don't know if there's a breakdown
of the of the total acreage 88.6 >> that's all the city. >> Mhm. But not all city property like most or there's a split there where it's private like this this harbor trail development is like half of it and then
our sweethearts bluff is the other half. >> Yeah, roughly I would say that. Yeah. >> Yeah. And that the lake loop trail with the granite sand is again maybe half in the box and half out. >> Okay. >> But the overlook trail that goes up on the bluff is all in.
>> Okay. That's Yeah, I was curious. Do you do you cut all the trees down? >> A plan is to cut Yeah, it'll look different. It'll be the trees will be cut down. It'll be bare, but then going in and planting afterwards. So, looking at this is the long-term benefit and a longterm project. So, we always try to
remind land owners when we come in, it's always like what happened for the first year or two and then things start to grow and and then you can see that revitalization. >> Yeah. If you leave dead budworm on the ground, doesn't it do bad things?
I am not versed in that. Um I would have to rely on my technician who is not here. I'm it's not my understanding that it does because it's cyclic. So I'm not sure that I >> like the immediate neighbors including myself live about 50 feet away from the
area that you're going to cut. >> Mhm. And it aren't there going to be just a whole lot of dead budworm sitting there that are going to cross the street to her house and >> I hope >> set up shop set up shop in Ars. >> I hope not. There we'll set up shop whether we're there or not. I think
>> so. They're going to keep looking for food until their cycle is done and then they they're not so prevalent for a while. Um but the our hope is to if you know if everyone is on board to kind of move west and just slowly start to work with more and more land owners as funding is available and try to get you
know some more diversity in our forest since we don't have fires coming through. >> So cutting them down does it kill them? Does it kill the budworm? >> I I sorry I don't know. I didn't ask these questions before I left. I tried to anticipate them all but that one I
did not. >> I I don't know. >> Probably not. But it eliminates the >> the food source >> food source for the next season. So they move across the street to >> pretty much. >> Well, yeah. I mean, they they they fly around in the early summer and then they
Well, they crawl first and then they fly. >> Yeah. >> And like my friend just said a few minutes ago, it isn't like they fly. Oh, yeah. They do fly. >> Yeah. >> And they can go right to the neighbor's house, which is right at the top of the picture,
>> which is where we live. Well, I can say a few things on this because I have been aware of this in this particular Sweet Arts Bluff and the fire hazard. We >> over the years addressed this or not addressed it, but it's come up. the forest service I think 10 years ago or
so had mapping that showed this as a risky area and there was a didn't work but it was a thought to go in there and reduce the fuel reduce the >> um the forest there is like Elena says
in the not healthy the budworm is had its toll almost to the point of moving on um our staff has been planting white pine saplings from the free, you know, headstrom little twigs for years now. Probably got hundreds of them going out
back. >> Um there's an urban forestry management plan draft that's being worked on with the tree board and the city council and part of that is Sweethearts Bluff and the need for some management there. So
all this I think aligns nicely with >> topics that already been discussed. Um there is the matter of the land trust. The Minnesota land trust and the conservation easement treat this sweethearts bluffer as very special in terms of the sections of non
development, right? They have us in different sections within the trust where we can and can't do things. And for example, the campground is developed and we can trim trees and build roads and that sort of business. But Sweethearts Bluff is a kind of I've
always seen as a let it be sort of ethos of you know wilderness and there hasn't been active management back there because of it. Uh that said we could or should approach the trust and say what about this. So, if we're all on board
tonight with this support of a of this grant, I think for me that for us the next step is in a email to the land trust with a similar pitch that here we want to manage this forest a little better. We're going to do this, this, and that. How do you feel about it?
Hopefully, they can give us the quick enough turnaround because this is due next Tuesday. >> It is. And Tuesday we're off for Veterans Day. So, I mean Monday, >> we'll just keep moving forward. But I think even if if >> anything we just have to withdraw their application, you know. >> Yeah. >> So when you file your grant application,
we probably won't have the land trusts approval for it at that point. >> Uh but you would our I guess our motion tonight would be something like approving your recommending to the city that they go along with this and send a
letter of support if you're okay with that. Uh subject to the approval of the land trust. So I think the trust might be quick enough as long as we're, you know, it talks about conservation values in the easement and like it talks about fire
reduction management and those sorts of things that you know invasive species. So that it's going to it's going to be my intuition is they're going to be fine with it. >> And whether or not they need a full board to meet and discuss that, I don't
know. But I I do have a good contact with the trust. I feel can get a read like within this week. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Was that a motion? >> No, I did I I don't move. I I I I approve motions or or call for them. If
you'd like to make the motion that I described. >> I'll make that motion. >> And is there a second? >> For the purpose of discussion, second. >> Okay. Any more discussion? >> If you're clear cutting a 100 acres of city land, it's a big deal. Mhm.
>> It's going to look bad. >> So, you have to do some preparatory. >> You're not planning on clear cutting, if I understand it correctly, are you? You're just planning and taking out diseased trees. And where they're too dense, you're going to leave some trees where they are, right? >> That's what it looks like. Yeah. Removal
of deadendine for um yeah, there'll be some trees left. It won't be a clearcut. And for the public land, it's only 30 acres and then the rest will be on private property. And that's assuming that all these private land owners are going to be fully on board with it. So
sometimes when we get grants, as you know, they just show up and then we have to hurry up and move and scoot and then sometimes it doesn't not all the pieces fall in place. So we do the best we can. So this is our our dream and our hope that this will all fall in place.
>> I just caught that about the public land or the private land owners may or may not be on board. Is that or is there still some that you you've met with them individually? I guess >> I Steven's been working on that part and um he's still waiting to hear back from land owners and so
>> Okay. >> We're just we yeah we're just moving forward. This is kind of what we have to do sometimes for projects and so and then normally it gives us because this doesn't so it'll close and then it doesn't we don't hear anything until February. So within that time it normally gives us enough time to keep
talking. I mean, we don't like to always we don't like to operate this way, but this one just kind of came up this way. >> Um, and so I know he's been in contact with a few of the land owners. I don't know that all of them are. I haven't looked at all the parcels and and so yeah,
>> I think it'd be really expensive to to clear cut and >> yes, >> stack and chip and manage all this >> just from a it'd be interesting to see what the grand amount is. If it's, you know, 100,000,
that's just not going to go very far, >> right? >> Because this is also my understanding that this would be like contracted work. >> Yes. >> So that our staff wouldn't necessarily be additional time and effort,
>> which were that was part of the that's the only way we could do it. >> Right. Right. Yep. And that's how we would do it too. We don't have the capacity to But you would administer the grant. >> We administer the grant and provide all project oversight and then work yeah on
keeping keeping everybody up to date. So >> just just from doing trail development stuff, the public doesn't like walking into a clear-cut area. >> Nope. >> You know, and they call and ask what's going on. >> And
you know, some folks may not like all that being taken down. >> You're right. I mean, that's just the way it is. But >> unless unless you discern, you know, the the bossome from the birch, from the
fur, from the pine, from the >> So, if I understand it correctly, our motion will include approving the description that they've given us here. >> No, we didn't change it. >> Pardon? We didn't change the motion. >> We could if we chose to.
>> Oh, well, I I don't need to, but >> your motion is for a letter of support, >> right? >> Yeah. Which I think is appropriate. Okay. Well, we've had a motion and a second.
Is there more discussion? Would there be a time to back out >> to say we're not comfortable doing this? Yeah, I mean you can do that at any time whenever you get funding or whenever you move as you move forward. So yeah,
it's better to know now though because if I'm going to spend the time to write a grant, I don't want to have to go forward and spend all I mean I've got two grants due by Monday. That's why I'm like um so if we're going to move forward, I need to be able to Yeah. We just need to be able to plan because if it's just not something that it's
anybody's interested in, then we're not, you know, we've got to reconfigure how we want to move forward. So, >> so implicit in the motion if I understand it correctly is that clear cutting is not part of the plan. >> No, that's my understanding too. So, yeah. And I can provide clarification
when my staff is available tomorrow. But >> so you can do that before Dave has to write his letter. >> Yep. >> Okay. >> Are you ready to vote? I always thought the fire would come from the north, but it looks like the risk to my house
is from the south. >> So, you're happy with that then? >> You happy with the proposal? >> Just redirect my paranoia to a new direction. >> Well, if I understand it, the project would reduce the need for your paranoia over time, would it not?
>> Yeah. And I guess I'm just surprised that when they do that, they don't transport and mitigate the tree somewhere else. They do it on site. And if that's the way they do it, that's the way they do
it. >> But they always tell you not to move diseased wood, right? You know, So, I'm waiting for either approval of the motion or is is it time to vote? >> I think you have to call the question,
Mr. Chair. >> Well, I'm about to. I just wanted to make sure we were ready for it. >> Yeah. >> So, the question is called on the motion that Kate made and was seconded by Bob. Are there further discussion? If not, all those raise your hand and say I. >> I. >> I.
there would be nobody left to say no. There are no nos. Okay. So, you'll send us a copy of what you write to to Dave right away and he can spread it out to us in case there's any anybody wants to comment on it before it gets, you know,
too too tight in place. >> Um, sorry. Can Do you want a copy of the grant that I'm going to be writing or what are you asking? Because I I >> What I'm asking is for when you send the grant proposal in, send the copy to Dave. Yeah. >> And he will distribute it to us as he
chooses as or as we ask. >> It will be at the very end of the day on Monday. >> No rush. >> So I it'll be it'll be when it's right when it's due just because again it's >> okay. >> So that's why I was just double-checking that. >> Do you have a kind of a boilerplate
letter of support available? >> I always have a boiler plate. Yes. If anybody sees anything in the grant proposal that gives them heartburn, we can address it at the next meeting because they wouldn't be doing anything until next year. >> It'll it'll be in the it'll be on social
media as parkboard clearcuts >> public land. Just give it give it a few minutes here to circulate. >> You shouldn't say that out loud because somebody will take >> somebody will pick it up and run with it. >> Video. We're going to be promoting biodiversity, climate resiliency, fire
reduction, and with the longevity of our forests in the city of Grammaray and along the Northshore for our future generations. >> That's what you're doing. >> So, your letter will say something about clear cutting on the way, right? >> I didn't say we aren't going to clear.
>> Why? What did it say that if we're if she said that? >> I like what she said. What? We're not gonna the clearcut is not the word here. >> Say again. >> We're not going to use that word. >> No, we don't clear cut.
>> I see. >> We just That's not our We don't go in. Yeah, we just don't clear cut. >> I'm I'm just feeding. >> I'm just feeding trolls here. >> Yeah, >> trolls can pick this up and run with it. >> Yeah, there's enough. >> All right, we'll work we'll work
together. I am uh in and out the next two days, so we'll stay in touch. >> Yeah. Thanks, Elena. All right. Thank you. Thank you for your time. >> Thank you. Appreciate you coming, L. >> Yeah. Thank you. >> All right. >> Now, back to the rest of the agenda.
>> It's courageous of her to come to this group like that. Yes. >> Is there a golf report? No. No. Paul tonight. So, I quick update on golf. Paul and I just winterized the clubhouse this morning, >> right? Got the water out, put the
antifreeze in. Obviously, we're done for the season. It was a great year, >> right? Like conditions were good, play was good, revenue was good. We talked about that last month. Really best ever. >> Almost 200,000. Like 197.
>> So close. >> Paul be quick to point out 200 with tax or you know after we had to pay out tax though it's like 197 which is great. Last year we made like 170. So really a big accomplishment I think
in terms of revenue and just the good the good vibe at the club. >> Um but he's not prepared for his executive summary or these capital purchases, but we're going to work on that this month and >> hopefully get that next month.
>> Yeah, it's great to have his leadership up there. >> For sure. >> Yeah, >> for sure. It's paid off. >> It's great. So, >> okay. Apparently, we've covered golf as much as we're going to. Next item is the city council report. Craig is not here.
Is there anything that you can share with us today that from the city? >> I cannot. >> Is our budget going through without any difficulty? >> I don't know. >> Pardon? I I actually don't follow that
too close, but no, I I can't say like their final levy is yet to be set and that'll be something for I think in December >> really when they do it. So, I have no city council news.
Okay. So the next is the parks report and that was attached to what was mailed to us at least in part. Yes, that I can touch on. So I haven't got final numbers yet. We
actually switched credit card processors in a couple weeks ago and so we were in this like no person's land of a week of not having a credit card processor online at the end of October. So we weren't able to like run some bigger
bills through for October. So I just don't think it's relevant as to like how we did in October versus last year. We did good. >> It's the bottom line. Uh the weather was good. MEA weekend was like really busy. I've heard anecdotally from some shops in town. It was like one of their
busiest MEAs, Moose Madnesses. And the campground was pretty full because the weather was quite nice. The fall colors have been nice and so it's been a good month. Last month, October was good. Um, so after everyone left and we were went
to go to winterize things, there's a real chance to look at the water meters and with no use in the zone, we noticed this very rapidly spinning meter in the bath house 3 zone, which is a sure sign of an underground leak. >> And so we start to go out and listen to
the pedestals and do some witching. And yes, it's quite a >> wow >> quite a process to identify these because they're underground. They're plastic lines. They don't really locate. We don't have an asbuilt map of where these lines are. We just sort of go to the individual campsites and listen to
the hose bibs that are above ground. >> And I've got the DJ here that can hear water through the pipes. Kind of a white noise. >> And so I I this one was pretty loud over here at site 155. So we started digging there and three days later and about 75
feet to the south we found it. and the one inch mainline big split out the side big leak but of course we're on cobblestone so nothing percolates like we didn't have a wet spot >> just one of those I don't want to say
routine but this is not uncommon and it's the kind of things we do in the fall when we have the time and the talent and it's not like an emergency freeze up conditions where we had to blow out right away. So, thanks to the mild October, we found and fixed this leak. I'm pretty happy about it because that's
>> I think I saw them out there working on it just in the last week or so. >> Yeah. Yeah. It's in that center of the park by bath house 3. So, one of those things we do when we have the time and and obviously saves us a lot of money on our utility bill. Um, so yeah, we're
closed for as far as the water's out. The bath houses are locked. They're deep cleaned. Everything's put to bed except the marina. U, that's something we'll be working on this week. Putting the docks into a pile, putting the deicers in. We got some more invoice to get out of the
bay and get the pontoon out, get the rolling docks out, get the ADA kayak dock over to the city dock. And so quite a lot of water work left over the next week or two. Hopefully it stays nice. And we are still open for what's we call
rustic camping. Just like no water. Tent camping's $10 a night. Electric camping is $20 a night. There's a porta potty by the fish cleaning station. We've got guests every night. The actual some of our contractor KTM KGM crews that are
doing work on the gunflint and toy are staying, you know, like the construction workers. We've got a half a dozen of them staying throughout the season. So, it's been nice that it's been nice. >> Uh what else we got? The um let's see.
So, we got the leak. The GMRPTC crew was down here a couple weeks ago. Really had a good show, I think, with like a full house of commissioners on the Wednesday. I did a nice PowerPoint show for the park. Really showcasing our pretty pictures and great location. And then
the following day, the parks and trail legacy leaders were in this room. Different crowd, so I gave him the same show as the day before. Everybody loved it. Mitch Travis was on hand to give his Sawtooth Bluffs story, which is not as
uh successful as ours. And then later on that day, we gave a tour of the park itself to the parks and trails commissioner. So great great uh week of showing off our facilities and hopefully helping our funding grant application.
So the big the big paragraph here is we've heard back from the GMRPC on the grant for the new bath house. Uh there we're I would say we're in this negotiation phase of they like our application but the price per square foot of the design and build bath house
option that LHB presented was too much. like the thousand dollars a square foot is something they noticed right away is too much. >> They're actually used to funding prefab concrete modular bath houses. So obviously they get parks throughout the
state that are looking at building new bathous and they've kind of developed this um standard or I would say expectation that the prefab is the best use of these public funds because it is quite a bit
less than a custom build. Uh so they got back to us with that feedback. They said you know we like your application but we can't fund it to this amount. Obviously, there's $20 million of requests and only $11 million to go around. So, part of this was uh we want to help you, but we
can't, you know, to the extent that you've asked. So, we've been back with our design team at LHB, reached out to this Huffcut Cut Prefab. They're out of Wisconsin. They've done numerous projects throughout the regional significant parks. I've talked to the
park superintendent down in Lions County just to get a firsthand account of like how' you you know what's this like? Is it durable? Yes. Is it serviceable? Yes. Good ventilation? Like really check the boxes for all the basics you need in a
public restroom. But they're really hard to look at >> when it comes to like a concrete box. very little window, no roof overhang, right? It's just this. You've probably seen them in like
federal or state parks where they're really >> Is it capable of being modified at all? The prefab >> no structure? >> No. They show up on a truck in pieces and you >> My question is after they put it in, could we put more windows in if we chose to?
>> No. No. But what we could do and what we intend to do is update our budget using the prefab figures. They do save about I said 25%. I think that's about
$500,000 give or take on the $1.7 million budget. So I've already had two discussions with LHB. get get us a price for the prefab installed because there's two components
to that. There's the price of the brick house and it's $750,000. And then there's the price of the site prep, right? The slab, the utilities, all the connections, all the assembly.
And that we have at about $350,000. So, we're looking at about a $1.1 million bath house versus what was about a 1.5. That would be our best route to funding. The GMRPTC
would look at that as good stewardships of the public funds. Hopefully, maybe they give us the reduced amount. We still have the 25% match. And if and when we're successfully
awarded the 6 $700,000, we could increase our match to get what we want, right? So, we're not tied to the design that we submit. >> They they would be supportive of that.
>> It's happened in the past. Oh, >> they need to like fund on like best price scenarios of like the best use of this money >> so that they can fund more parks. >> Uhhuh. >> And so they, you know, my read is they
are not going to fund us for the custom build 1.5, >> but maybe, just maybe, the 1.2 2 or 1.1 prefab, they would fund us, >> but only like, you know, that smaller proportion of money. And then it's up to
us and and us is us. We would we would look at drawings. We would say, is this going to be worth it to spend an extra two or three or 400,000 out of our own capital, which we have, to get the prettier overhangs and windows and
natural light and maybe some better functionality, better design in general. Where was the 25% match? >> That's included in that budget lines of like what breaks out to what they would fund. It's like 25% less because we're
bringing that match money. >> So if the project is 1.2 million, it would be 300,000 that we would fund, >> right? >> If we chose to spend more, which would be a later decision, >> right? >> Uh we could do that, >> right? So, do you need do you need
authorization from us to submit a different proposal from the one we proposed? >> No, because we're already moving fast on it. Like, they need this. >> I understand that, but we're meeting today. If if you thought that was going to be useful, >> why not? It wouldn't hurt. If you're
comfortable with with these ideas, >> why not? Mhm. >> So, if I understand it correctly, we're looking for a motion that would approve Dave working with the state people on a project that would that would have
as a funding basis use prefab construction with the understanding that we may change that ourselves if we choose to later. Is that something you guys are comfortable? >> Yeah. All we're intending to do is present or go back into the application
and update our budget >> and reduce it >> through the use of a prefab modular building. >> So that's the motion. I thought that was what I said >> pretty much. >> Okay. So is somebody prepared to make
that motion? >> And again, just so you we're clear, we're not committed to that building, >> right? We're just playing our cards right to get funded to the maximum amount they're willing to fund. >> And as long as they're flexible with our
decision to >> They certainly are. >> Okay. Then I'm comfortable making that motion. >> Bob is contemplating >> second for purpose of discussion. Dave,
don't don't build something ugly, >> right? >> Because something ugly is durable and remains ugly. >> Thank you. >> Uh and better to wait and put more into it up front and then not regret your
decision because there are so many ugly concrete slab things in the world. >> Thank you, Bob. But just what I'm thinking, just what our design team is thinking, particularly the location, it's on Lake Superior. >> Yeah. You see it from the boat launch. You see it from the beach. You see it
from the picnic pavilion, right? It's on that prominent southern corner of the park. >> So that it's >> on display >> and it's a showpiece. It's a beautiful, beautiful view and the corner and everything else about it is why we have such reservation about the prefab block
house. >> But again, we can continue to hash this out if and when we get funded >> and we'll know by December. we can really say all right gang let's I'll bring in pictures of both and pros and cons of both and then we can have
that discussion again >> should be WPA logs and stone I mean >> I mean I I spent last night looking through a book of that stuff and it's hard to go there but you do get
something out of it you know I mean >> well the LHB design was nice it had long overhangs and natural lighting and the gables and >> it's still durable, >> not a lot of wood because that's what we don't want in the moist environment. >> Yeah.
>> But yeah, we want it to be, >> you know, suitable or fitting for the location, >> but again, we want to get funded to the to the appropriate amount that this committee is willing to fund.
>> Yeah. Are we ready to vote? >> This will be known as the brick house resolution. >> Only if the minutes reflect that. >> Okay, we'll review the minutes. >> I wasn't going to say it.
>> We'll review the minutes next month. I mean, I value bathrooms as much as anyone, but ugly is ugly. Don't do it, Dave. >> Thank you, Bob. >> Yeah. >> Okay. With the understanding we're not going to build something ugly, are we
prepared to vote? >> Yes. >> All those in favor say I. Raise your hand. >> I. >> There being nobody to oppose it, it passes unanimously. >> Thank you. And then last order of >> question for Dave. >> Yeah. >> Who is on the Greater Minnesota Regional
Parks and Trails Commission and who is on the Parks and Trails Legacy Commission? >> Good question. >> Who staffs that kind of a group? So the the GMRPTC commission is like broken up by districts and it's like park managers
directors of recreation for counties of regionally significant parks. So it's like a statewide I should say outstate as you know that term. >> Yeah. >> Regionally significant park leaders that are just sign up as a three-year term to
be a commissioner. Tim Kennedy used to be one. So you could be one or >> it's not like state function arearies of some type. >> No, they're like department, you know, park department leaders in outstate regionally significant parks.
>> But this is a state agency. >> Yes. >> Staffed by regular people, >> coordinator and then an executive director >> who get a predam or something to >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> And then the other group, the Parks and Trails Legacy Commission, that's not
like the legacy money at the legislature. >> It is in the sense of like the recreation component of that. So, but it's more met council, DNR, and regionally significant outstate
parks. So it's a it's an allincclusive group of legacyf funded parks that include both the DNR because they get like half of it and then the in metro me council parks the five county metro
parks because they get the like 25%. >> So this is from the 2008 resolution that passed the state. >> So it's that that legacy. >> Yep. And the parks and trails was like I
said it was more not just outstate parks but it was DNR officials or reps and then met council reps >> or metro >> and that is staffed by appropriate people from those >> from the DNR oversees that commission. Yeah.
>> And they get a stipend or a pdeium and do their thing. >> Yeah. It's a little bit redundant. I had the same questions going into the thing, but it's it would it was two different crowds except for there were a couple of reps from the GMR PTC on the parks and
trails legacy. >> Yeah. Because because there I know there's a provision for regional parks in the 2008 legislation >> and very specifically regional and I was wondering where those >> That's that first group. That's that
GMRPTC group. Okay. >> Have we done all we need to do on that subject? >> I'm looking for a nice tree for Harbor Park. Put out the feelers. Not too big, not too small. Very shapely, you know, an
evergreen Christmas holiday. >> A permanent Christmas tree. >> No, just what we what we >> to put up. >> Maybe we go look in Sweethearts fluff. >> Really? which we've done in the past or the old water tower.
>> So, but last year was uh donated from one of the um you know, suck off a city lot. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> It was a great tree. >> So, we'll we're definitely putting the word out there trying to crowdsource something nearby and shapely.
>> What kind of tree? >> Spruce. Balsom. >> Yeah. >> Evergreen. >> Evergreen looking tree. Christmy. >> All right, that's it. >> Okay. Is there anything else besides the uh
rates question? >> Okay. Uh let's do the old business. 2026 re recreation area rates. So, we got 28 minutes. Don't feel like you have to decide everything in the next 27 minutes.
We are under the time of having to adjourn by six. I feel like there might be more here than a half hour's worth of discussion because we're talking about seasonal RV rates and then we're talking about these new
idea rates and whatever you prefer really. It's none of this has to be decided tonight. Are you inclined to take time to read this over and to pick it up next month? >> I'd be fine with that.
>> Pardon? >> I' I'd be fine with that, >> Bob. >> Yeah, we should probably have a large group. >> We should probably >> have a large group with everybody here. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And and a chance to read the thing in some detail. Okay. So we will put this
under old business for our next meeting at which we can expect to decide it. >> Yeah. And if you want it, we do have time if you have any questions or new ideas or we can just >> I haven't had a chance to read it very much. So I think they we should if if I have questions in I can send them to you
in the meantime and I'll >> Well, if these people I'll send it to them at the same time. >> I mean I honestly I have a question for you Steve in terms of like further analysis of the seasonal rate. is is something I heard last meeting, right? If we remember back to last month,
that's right. >> You know, we had the same idea of like, oh, time time Craig had to leave. So, we only increase the nightly rate because we're taking reservations on those rates right now for May. We've got like a couple of them. So, it's, you know, again, that wasn't that big a deal, but
the nightly rate has been increased 3%. the seasonal rate. What else can I provide for you to help you decide? I think I again I just sort of sent out what I sent out last month on the what
3% looks like, what 5% looks like. We generally always go with what we do for nightly with the seasonals just for the sake of parody and simplicity. Um, so if there's if you're thinking of
other adjustments, like let me know. >> Yeah. Okay. We'll read it and see what where we are. >> Yeah. We don't have like a comparable park for these kind of rates unlike nightly rates where we can look to Burlington Bay or the state parks. They don't offer seasonals.
>> Oh, >> no public park offers seasonals. It's a private park model and generally the seasonal buys the lot as real estate >> and they get a deed to it, >> right? And then they pay association
fees for the lawnmowing and the garbage collection and they get metered for electric. >> You know, it's like a whole different model. >> Where is that? Where does that occur? >> Arizona, >> right? The deep south. >> Yeah. >> Or the chain of lakes. Actually, Brainer
Biji. Oh, >> or anywhere that's pretty that people want to retire to and buy an RV lot. >> That's the model. >> And keep an RV there. >> Travelers Country Club in the Mississippi has that model. Yeah. >> We had a trailer there for several years. >> Yeah. And And did you buy the lot?
>> Of course. >> And it was like a real estate transaction, right? You bought the lot. >> We had a a long-term lease. >> Yeah. And so I I can't find comparables >> to even put these up against, >> but I do hear or know of like seasonals
in the Brainard Lakes area that are way less. Like maybe there's a few private parks that don't sell you the lot, but they sell you the season and it's, you know, 2500 bucks. >> I could try to pull some of those
figures. Is the implication of your comments that we we want to be careful not to get too high or just just to note that we're different? >> Both. >> Okay. Both.
There's definitely seasonals watching this very close. They watch our meetings. They follow their rates. They're on fixed incomes. They get excited about rate hikes. in the past, like
quite a few years back is that's when we broke up the prime versus standard, right? It used to be all just a flat price for a seasonal site. >> There was just one price, no matter where it was located or what the view was.
>> And we knew that was a value for the ones with views. >> So, six, seven, eight years ago, we took a tour of the park. We looked at this site and that and this one was way nicer than that one. And so we created this prime rate that's, you know,
$600 more. >> I suppose one question that's worthy of thinking about is is there a prime and a subprime and and an average? Might might there be a third category? >> No.
And so much so that the prime is being grand is being like phased out. >> Like more context here is that soon we'll only have the standard rate >> because the prime are going to go nightly. >> Nightly. >> Do I remember you said that we had we lost three of the seasonals this last
year >> of the prime? Yeah. >> Yeah. And those are the ones that are being converted. >> Transitioned. Yeah. Converted. And do we expect any more this next year or do we have any reason to? Ye
>> yes. Yes. Particularly given the age of some of the long-term returning seasonals that are in some of these prime sites. There's some that are reaching their limit for being, you know, able to to manage it.
So there's there's always that potential of these transitioning just like this past season. Two of them were expected like going into the spring because they didn't renew back in February or January. And
then one of them said about July, "Hey, guess what? We're turning 80 this year. We're going out with our boots on. We're selling out. We're done. We're not coming back next year." Mhm. >> And I know of like a handful of the other 28
that are in that same age range. >> Okay. >> And so they'll there's going to be transitions every year of like three more, three more, three more. And there will be the time where we need where we've got a majority of these are nightly now. And do we reserve them?
Do we have special policies around them? You know, I touched on a special rate for them. Sam and I talked about that we already charge a little more for a pullth through right now on our nightly rate card. A pullth through site
is like $4.50 more than a standard site. And we've been charging that pullth through rate on these prime on these recently converted prime. So, we've already tried to cash in on the fact that they're really nice
locations with lake views. >> And maybe a newer or a better idea we can talk about next month is this like instead of creating a seventh rate because our card was already pretty stacked with tent and lakeside tent and electric water and electric water sewer
and electric water sewer pullth through. >> Do we create electric water sewer prime? Yeah. No. What about an electric water sewer pull through or prime and it's $6 more? Maybe it stays at 450 more. But
I I really feel like we have this opportunity to cash in or take advantage of these really sweet sites with the views on the nightly rate. We already have because we've been charging with the pull through 12% more than the average. But yeah,
when I shared this with Sam and the and the idea that they're like $10 more, you know, like 63 versus 53, she was kind of like, "Oo, that's a lot. They're not front row. We've, you know, we're already charging $4.50 more for them.
People were paying that all day." Like, you know, we don't want the rate card to get too big. So, let's think about a full hookup pull through or prime that to kind of call it something cute.
The best or you know the whatever we call it, it's going to be more. >> Yeah. I I trust that the people you people on the front lines can gauge like
>> what are they worth? >> What what what are they worth? what what people's reactions are going to be. I mean, if if we were concerned about losing money or, you know, nobody's showing up, you know, what's going on, but that's we're we don't have that
problem. >> No, no. I feel like our concern is leaving money on the table by not charging enough. Yeah, >> that was that was the origin of my question when we started this discussion >> for season where we can raise raise the
rates on places where people are willing to pay a higher rate and not have to raise the other rates as much. >> Yeah. >> Right. >> So, are we comfortable then passing this subject over to next month? Um, I just have one other um quick thing about the
um the community space, the rental of the little building. >> 30 bucks for a whole day. >> Yeah, that's been and honestly Kas I've been here 20 years. It's been that for as long as I've been here. >> I was shocked. >> I had no idea. And then I and I think
oh, you know, my first reaction is, oh, this should be more. But then I don't know like is the sentiment, you know, it's a it's a community space. >> People are already paying our taxes.
We should be able to benefit from this. But even going up to 50 seems like nothing. >> For sure. Great points, K. And that's the reaction too from folks who rent it and ask how much and say 30. and they're just kind of like really
>> so I got the rai from the community center actually >> right like Sarah was happy to share I think there it's available online as well but yeah so something we can look into next month is sort of >> the what's comparable is like the 4 building right
>> and that is they got all kinds of prices because of a >> like if it's a nonprofit fundraising type of thing it's free >> if it's a private meeting parties and social gatherings, which is kind of what we're into. >> It's $50 for a half day and 75 for a
full day. >> It's kind of what they're up this up the hill, >> right? The big the big community center itself, which I don't think we compare to, right, >> is, you know, it's like $500 for a wedding >> for a county resident, $1,000 for an outofcount resident.
>> So, they two make that distinction between like a local price and a out of town price. >> Yeah, that'd be kind of good. And and something Sam brought up which is a good idea is the pavilion and the wreck hall could or should be different prices because they're really quite different.
>> Pavilion. Yes. >> Is there a charge for that? >> It's the same $30. >> Oh. >> And again, that's just kind of the open air, >> right? >> You get picnic tables and a fire pit and some power, but you don't get the kitchen, >> the bathroom. >> You don't get the bathroom. You don't
get the the heating. >> And they'll have a bathroom nearby after we build three. >> Yeah. But it but there's probably our chance here is to set up two different rates. Like a pavilion rate that's >> 50 a day >> and a recall rate that's 75 or something like that.
>> I'm curious how much it's used. >> I can get those numbers too because it's in the books. >> Okay. >> And it's not that much, believe it or not. Like anecdotally, we looked at this when we were doing sort of the analysis of do we need a new wreck haul? >> Uhhuh. >> Because it really only gets rented like 20 to 30 times a year.
>> Okay. And some of that is like a week of the plan air painters setup shop in there in September. Like the plan airfest uses it as like their headquarters. >> And so there's like seven days out of the 25. There's some action in the
spring for graduation parties. >> Like two, three families and then the fisherman's picnic class reunions. >> Two, three, you know, Friday, Saturday, Sunday. I think it's underused. >> Yeah,
>> seems to me. Yeah, >> based upon what you've said so far, it sounds like the 30th of the pavilion might be not too bad, but raising the rate for the closed in place would be better to be comparable with the community center >> and maybe even to follow their pattern of nonprofit groups
>> uh being for free. Uh I doubt if it would change that much, would it? We don't have many nonprofit like fundraisers down there. No, >> the historic society used to use it for their trout plank dinner, but they've
since moved that to North House. >> But I can run the numbers on how often are they rented? >> Yeah, I'm just curious. >> What's the community center rates? I can share those. >> Great. It it occurs to me that North House, if they rent their facilities out
for gatherings, that we might want to know what they're charging before we decide what to do. >> What else can I get for you? >> We have gotten very close to the end of the agenda. Is there anything any new business or any old business that people wish to bring up?
>> I'd like to add what something for next month's agenda. And what is that? >> I had gone to Dave and asked that we put in some kind of wording in the reservation such that people coming here would understand that it's a intelligent
lowlight campground, you know, with shaded lights and un lack of unnecessary flamboyant lights and sort of a reserve space. The local dark sky group asked me to come to Dave with
that request and I did that and I thought somebody was going to send in wording for that and that didn't happen. But I should be held responsible for bringing wording that Dave can use when people reserve that they understand that
it is a darkness sensitive camping area. Much as the town markets itself as a dark place, we should line up along with that so that when you sign to come here, you're agreeing to be careful about
excessive light at night. >> Let's make that a sub paragraph under the parks report, right? >> For Yeah. Parks report next month. Dark sky reservation. Yeah. >> Language. >> Language. I I I talked to Dave and I was
to bring language, but I think the person who had the language had co and it got slowed down. But I don't want to lose that thread, >> okay, >> until we have it in the expectations for camping here include sort of light savvy
behavior. >> Consider that it's on the agenda. >> Great. Thank you. >> I do have one question about land use. >> We the city took out a couple of buildings that are close to the shore. Uh, you know where the where those buildings we took out?
>> Oh, at the launch at the new launch. >> Well, to the right of it. >> The shop and the Yeah, the PC to the right of it. Y >> is is there any potential possibility of turning any of that land into camping space? Yeah, I can't say no, but we know
there's considerable obstacles to that in the former industrial use of that land has impacted the soils with harmful chemicals that might not be the best to camp on top of and scratch and sniff.
>> So maybe someday we should seek a grant to get to replace the dirt. That was looked at when we were planning the boat launch project and that would actually release those h have the it's like PCBs and arsenic in the nasties
from years of transformer storage and industrial usage down there. And so there's kind of a phase one study that when they were demoing those facilities, they were able to determine that this is a bad spot for contaminants. And I don't
have the details of how bad, but when we shared that with the DNR and the design team for the boat launch, the recommendation was to cap it actually with asphalt to prevent the leeching of those chemicals further down into the water table. And that disturbance of
that of the soil around that site would almost invariably release some of that. >> Maybe we can get some federal super fund, buddy. >> Maybe we can let it be. But yeah, we looked at that when we did the boat launch. We had kind of this
extra parking lot to the right that would have capped that soil, but the budget didn't afford that and the public didn't really go for it either. It was too much parking, too much pavement right on the shore. >> And so we just sort of let it go naturally.
>> But I get your point. leave the subject matter for you to think about and maybe get some input from people who know this problem better >> and see if there's anything that because if it if it were possible to do it if we
could get a grant to fix the bad stuff and if we could rent out the spaces we would have another source of revenue is what I was thinking but it only makes sense if what we have to spend on it is sensible >> what can be done >> what did they do with the old standard
station? >> Uh, Harbor Park. >> Yeah. >> Not much. >> Was that capped or >> made a park? Yeah. >> Put put on top of it. >> Yeah. They didn't I don't I don't know honestly, but I don't think they did a
soil exchange or whatever would be necessary. I mean, I know when they when they demoed the power plant that was down there, >> they dug a really big hole and it kept filling in with like groundwater and was sheened. >> I'm sure.
>> And they'd pump it out and come back the next week and pump it out and it just kept sheening and they just eventually got to like fill it in >> because they were running diesel generators and >> changing the oil right on the ground. >> Sure.
Well, it's a subject matter >> or so I've been told because this is all like way before my time. But I take your point, Steve. I mean, this is a sensitive area. We can I think our chance to reprogram that was in the master plan
and we let it be. But at the very least, I'd like to mow it and rush it and keep the view >> for the moment. That's fine. You know, if there's some more expertise that would help us turn that into a money-making space, that would be nice.
And if it doesn't happen, it doesn't happen. >> Yeah. >> Well, are we ready to adjourn? Yes. It's approaching six. Yeah. We've done a good job. >> Six minutes, >> especially since we had hardly anything on the agenda. >> What do you mean?
>> Thank you all. >> Ajourned. >> Ajourned.