whether to approve the agenda as distributed. Does anybody have any requested suggestions or changes or whatever? There being none, uh the agenda is approved as distributed. Uh the minutes
will reflect that so far uh three members of the group are here. uh councelor or rather commissioner uh Matthew Brown and uh Craig
Shely are not in president of the meeting at the moment. That could change at least as to Mr. Shely. Uh the July minutes has everybody had adequate time to review them.
Does anybody have any suggestions for change? >> No. >> For correction? There being no suggestions for change or correction, the minutes will reflect that the uh minutes from the last meeting were approved unanimously.
That takes us to the golf report. >> I just not too long ago heard from Paul. He's stuck in the clubhouse. We actually need a clubhouse attendant right now. >> Okay. So, we sent him a link. He was hoping to maybe be able to join us
remotely, but yeah, in the meantime, I could give a brief uh summary. It's it's about staff. >> Why don't we move on at that point to something else on the agenda? >> Sure. >> Yep. >> Um Craig is not here to give a city council report. Do you have anything about what the city has done that might
affect us in any way? >> No. >> Okay. just the budget season which we'll talk about under new business. >> Then the uh next item would be the parks report which you have distributed a half
page for us to look at. The generality of the report is that things are going okay with July being not so good because of all the rain. >> Yeah. Well, yeah. So, we always kind of give you an update on business in the campground in the marina. Um July was a
wet one compared to last year. So uh not surprisingly. Occupancy I think was a bit down comparative to 2024. You know we run the the the revenue number is really what we have to go on and almost identical.
>> Paul is with us if we want to switch back. >> Yeah, let's I'm fine with that. Yeah. Okay. >> Paul, are you available to to uh be part of the meeting now? I'm Yes, I am. >> Okay. Uh why don't you tell us what
you'd like to tell us as your part of your golf golf report? >> Okay. Well, uh let's see. I guess our big landmark was the picnic weekend and and then looking through, you know, numbers of
uh from last month and stuff, our numbers are up. I mean, I I guess I don't know what the percentage is. I'm guessing at least 10% up cuz we're at I think the previous year we're at like 38 gross and this year we're at 45
in July and now we're starting we started pretty strong here from the weekend. So yeah, it's busy. I mean all of our carts are out right now. We're going to do we're going to be happy when when if we're able to get this cart situation taken care of this at the end
of this year. Um, but in general, everything's going okay. We've got um some of the old carts that we've been using for the end of the day thing, they've been failing and we've been trying to get those back and running um with mixed results. So, you know,
we're just doing the best we can there, but you know, just trying to keep everybody happy. If sometimes we I have to I have to come back and put tarts away later at night. That's what I do. Um yeah, other than that, I can't I can't really think of anything that's
that's new. We've got um you know, from this uh just the way that we've had this these wet spells. We've got um or apparently drain tile or basically the soil in general is just acting, you know, different this year. We've got wet
spots that that are sustaining easily. they dry out and it's uh and then you know we never really have any issues. Um but this year we we've got areas that have been wet and remained wet. So it's you know it's just it's interesting.
Makes us kind of critique things for drainage a little bit. Um yeah. So that's about it. I mean I'm still got I still got some work to do for for papering up our um some things that we
need to buy. And so I'll be doing that here probably, you know, within the next week or so, getting some, you know, prices and evaluations and I guess comps is what call it. Um, but yeah, I mean, everything's going
good. We seem to be rolling through everything a little bit better. Beer, you know, and I mean, we don't have a lot of stuff here. We've got beer and pizzas and hot dogs and pretty simple. kind of a pure golf situation. >> And wine. You've got wine, too.
>> Yeah, we've got wine. I, you know, I didn't um I don't know that that's something we'll continue with. I think if they had like some mixed wine drinks, that would be better. But, uh, >> Paul, sorry to interrupt. >> Worth. I like the one that I had. It was
a red wine and it was five bucks. 4 ounces and it was I thought quite tasty for five bucks. >> In that barrel there's two there's tubes. Two tubes. >> Just go out and walk and stab you. It'll equate to a large bucket. You get that? It'll just take you a minute.
>> Oh, good thing. >> Yep. Okay. Sorry about that. Um >> that sounds like my kid. >> Pardon me. >> That sounds like my kid. Is that my kid? >> Matt.
That's Matt. County Matt. He's out getting some range balls. Anyway, >> out there buying one. >> Well, we've got we got he's got a membership for balls, but we we've been running out of range balls every day. It
takes us and a half to go. >> And so, yeah, it's been crazy, >> but that's what it is this time of year, I guess. running. No place to hide. >> Right. >> Well, so >> so Paul's guarding the clubhouse right
now because we're short uh inside help, >> right? >> Clubhouse attendant. >> I do have one comment that I want to ask Paul about. I mentioned it to him uh privately the other day and that is I I was aware me started thinking about what it is we don't have that we might have
that would improve play and the the thing that came to me that involves relatively minimal capital cost and hardly any operating cost would be to put in a a practice green for chipping and uh for chipping and a
uh a a sand practice sand area. Uh, and I wanted to simply put that on the list of things that might be done in the next couple years. I don't have any real idea of what the cost of the building the green would be. Paul was telling me that sometimes they
take the dirt they dig from the sand pit and put that uh to help build up the the chipping green. But in any event, it's something we should price and get some sense of when we might do it. Yeah, we're we've been talking about I think we're going to develop something
right on the the far end of the driving range. I think we're going to convert that into a little bent grass area up there. Um because we could, you know, from time to time we need we uh could use a bent grass if we have some damage or something. But, you know, that could that'd be a good thing situation. We can
make that for a chipping green and then it's irrigated so we don't have to worry about that. And then we can just, you know, we can um we can go just off to the side out of the radius of the irrigation and put a bunker bunk sand bunker over there.
So that would be at the far end of the far end of the uh tea box. >> Does anybody else have questions about this golf report? No. Or comments? Anything you want to add, Paul, before we let you go back to your desk?
Uh, no. >> Dave, >> thank you. >> See you today. >> Thanks, Paul. >> Yep. Byebye. >> Bye. >> Oh, I know. One thing I wanted to think about for next year or for from now on.
I saw that the advertising budget was actually going down and I wasn't too fired up about that. Only from 3500 to 2500 of the proposed budget. But more importantly, did we do any advertising surrounding Fisherman's Picnic or any of
the other events that bring people into town? >> I don't know that we did any any special events, advertising. No. And we do I need to do a better get something developed more for media. That's really where where I think our money needs to
go. Um there's a few um few uh paper type of ads or ads that are that are going out of you know from downtown there that we get involved. >> I'm thinking so much of paper ads as internet marketing associated with the
fisherman's picnic own internet marketing and any other events that we have that bring people to town where you've got something on the computer. if we could get our name in as way, you know, while you're here, you can you can toss the fish and you can also play golf
or you can watch the pickup truck opera in the afternoon at 3:00 and play golf before that. You know, those kinds of things that I think would be rel cheap and easy and uh probably produce at least enough revenue to to
make him bother worth the bother. Anyway, thought to who to uh where we might do that kind of of uh coordinated advertising. >> Anything else? >> Yeah, I don't I don't know anything about opera, but uh you know, it
wouldn't hurt us to do more advertising on media, that's for sure. But actually, this weekend was was really busy. I don't think we could have been too much busier. >> Well, and that's wonderful news. Uh and I hope that that continues. The pickup truck opera is coming this Saturday at
3:00 in the afternoon. And there's some there's some information about that on Boreal and other places. And I suspect it would it would be useful to see if there's some way to say bring your clubs.
There at least one of us in town that both likes opera and plays golf. >> Okay. >> I'm impressed, Mr. chairman by the action cam of staff in the wild. Actually, actually at work in real time,
>> duly noted. >> Yeah, the whole if there's no more about golf, we'll go move on to the next item on the agenda. Thank you, Paul. >> Okay, take care. Byebye. >> Bye. >> Uh we were in the middle of the parks report. We can continue to be
>> It's like reality TV. >> Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, July, like I was saying initially, was was flat revenue. Literally like $1,000 more this year than last year for just the month of July. 352,000
versus 351,000. >> So, call it flat. We know we raised the rate 5% so we know our occupancy was down >> proportionately. Another big indicator of the season or the weather is the fuel
sales. As you see, they were off by $10,000. >> Like 20,000 last July, 10,000 this July. Yeah, it was rainy. But another big factor there is the Border Patrol keeps a boat in our marina. A little go fast
like F30 or whatever they are like a the equivalent of the Coast Guard boat. It's got two big motors. they go out. They used to go out regularly and put on considerable amounts of fuel as a result. So, the bigger dip of why our
fuel sales were down in July was just that one boat not going out as often. >> And uh >> I noticed when I was walking around the park the other day, there were lots of boats parked in the marina. >> Mhm. >> Are are they all temporary just for a
while or are there some that are more longterm >> boats in the water on the docks? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Most are seasonal. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Mhm. We have like 30 approximately 30 slips, you know, docks, and
I would I would say 27 of them are seasonal. >> There's only three reservable guest slips. >> What And what do we have for char? What do we charge for the season for a slip for a boat? >> Uh, it's based on the price per foot. >> Yeah.
>> And it's $72 per foot. So the average boat 20 ft we're talking 300 3,400 bucks. Is that right? Or am I doing that correctly? >> Yeah, more like 15 >> 20 time 72 whatever that is. >> Yeah, 1500
>> 1500. >> Yeah, but most boats are more like 30 and it's about 2,000. So, >> and how does that compare? Do we know with anybody else's marina chargers? Yeah, I've looked at this in the past and it's not an applesto apples comparison to Duth or the Bayfield area.
They typically charge more. They have more to offer and they charge flat fees for dock space. Like a 30foot dock is $3,000 and they don't care what size boat you keep on it. A 40ft dock is $4,000. A 50ft dock is $5,000. They
don't necessarily price >> summer. Yeah. Okay. >> They don't price by the foot. I would think our principal competition would be Silver Bay in terms of comparison, wouldn't it? >> Yes. But no, we really have no competition. But >> what I mean by that is whatever they're charging would be something we would
want to know. >> Not so much because they're overbuilt, no demand. Their rates are very low. >> Oh, really? >> As a result, okay, >> there's literally nothing in the Silver Bay Marina that's attractive. It's out of town. There's fly ash on the decks
there. They I believe they're much more affordable than us and as we but they have empty slips and >> Okay, good to know. >> It's just a whole different animal. >> So yeah, the good news is we're doing fine 3% year-to- date
up over last year. So it's an indicator of occupancy lagging because if we had strong, you know, flat occupancy, we'd be up 5%. But just like last year, the same trend we saw last year where July and August, it's tough to beat. Once we're full,
we're full. So, we were flat last year for July and August were sort of trending at that 3% mark after the end of August last year. But then September and October really came through for us. You know, it was great fall weather, hot, dry, extended. September especially
came in really strong >> and I believe we finished the year up about 7% last year. So plenty of runway left here and >> really strong numbers. I think >> the other thing part of your report is the the uh application for state
funding. >> Yes. >> And this map I gather relates to that. >> Yes. Yes. So, uh, we'll look at the city budget under new business. And then, yeah, the big news here is we made our deadline for J what was July 31st to submit to the Greater Minnesota Regional
Parks and Trails Commission for funding. The team at LHB and I were working throughout the month of July on these plans and narrative. And I attached all that to the email earlier today. There's quite a lot there to digest. But tonight, I just provided the
illustrative map that was a part of the application to kind of give us all a sense of where we're at with this. We, as we talked about at the July meeting, um after their open house, we sort of heard it loud and clear that bath house 2 is the most needy of our four bathous.
The relocation of Bath House 2 down into that southern corner of the campground makes a lot of sense, particularly with the grant in terms of being accessible to the beach and the boat launch and the picnic pavilion and the general public.
Right. We had a few discussions with the coordinator at the commission to gauge some strategy and uh found out, you know, pretty quickly that they're keen to fund facilities and bath houses are certainly one of those, but if it's just
this sort of standalone improvement for the campers, it's not as competitive as uh you know, something that's available to the public and the day users and it's uh >> Hey, the bathous are used by the public, >> right? Yeah. >> Right. But but the idea that it's just
another bath house for the campground is not how we worded the application. It's a public bath house for the day users of the park for the boat launch in particular. >> Can we send them an an addendum that says and there are a lot of dog walkers who use these houses?
>> It was it's already touched on in the in the narrative. It's we definitely LHB did a really good job positioning this project as more than just a bath house. You can see the additions of the wayfinding signage, the entrance sign. We actually included one of those renderings from CJ Fernandez from years
ago that he had created like a monument entrance sign, you know, that was five figures to, >> you know, put it out there that we the priorities of the master plan were pretty clear. They were improve the facilities, but also improve the signage
and the wayfinding. >> So, we packaged that in with this application. Uh there was a budget spreadsheet that was prepared by LHB. I was shocked, but shouldn't have been that the price per square foot on the bath house build is like close to
$1,000, but that's the going rate for commercial bath house structures because of all the utilities and infrastructure and durable surfaces. And um we did you know hear from the group that the preliminary
application is kind of purposely um not a lot of details in the costs and the builds like those come later like the concept is what needed to be in the application. So you saw in the material
sent earlier of the like a line drawing of the bath house very similar to the bath house 4 in terms of size and layout although it doesn't it does include a new family room which is something we currently don't have and that's got a
lot of appeal as well for reaching the broadest group of users. Of course, it would be ADA accessible, which is a big thing they're looking for. And so, I feel like we checked all the boxes when I was reviewing the application and
addressing their narratives for why we're doing this. >> And the master plan supports this throughout and I knew we had a strong master plan >> that supported this application. And uh I feel really good about it. The group
has already reached back on a site tour date. Sounds like the first week in September. >> We'll be entertaining the judges with a walkabout. >> And then we'll find out in the late fall, November.
Um, as you can see, we put up a 25% match, which is no small amount on a $ 1.75 million project. It's, you know, 400 plus that we would be using from our own capital reserve fund, which is healthy. Um that was part of the
strategy in terms of extra points are awarded for match amounts and at the 25% level you get the maximum number of points. >> Oh >> which is 15 >> you know sort of graduated you know 10% match got you five points and 15% match
got you 10. Um, and there, I believe, would be a a time of negotiation with the committee, the judges, if they really like our project, but they want to fund multiple projects. And there's only about $12 million
available in this cycle. And so typically they get more requests than funding availability and they're able to work with the parks on staging projects or increasing local matches and you know making it work so
that they can partially fund our request and we could look for funds elsewhere. We could bring more match money to the table. So >> it's a process that'll continue to play out. Uh, but we're optimistic and I was very impressed with the team of LHB and
their efficiency and effectiveness. >> Questions or comments? K. >> Um, yeah, I think it's great. I was really impressed with everything I read and looked at. Um I just one question and is
um I was curious because I didn't see it anywhere in you know the budget the parks budget that we got but um paying LHB for their part of this process. Does that just come out of the city >> and not the parks?
>> No, it would come from our um capital >> construction budget. Okay. Okay. similar to the landing to the overlook landing that was constructed and you know you saw some big numbers in there like 200
$300,000 over the like 23 22 period >> those that >> capital outlay buildings that one >> not so much I think it's more under construction it's >> oh yeah 62,000 is in there for 22 or 25
>> okay >> yeah that makes sense I just wasn't sure >> and Those and those numbers, we can talk about that when we do budget talks. They're they're placeholders. They're their amounts paid into our reserve fund. >> Right. >> And some years we spend >> 400,000.
>> Some years we spend nothing. >> Right. Right. >> But yeah, the it was about $30,000 for the LHB work over the last couple months >> and that'll come out of our capital reserve fund. >> And so then the last Oh, any other
questions on the grant? Does that leave us with any capital reserve? >> Oh yes. >> So you still got some flexibility after this project >> Oh yes. >> goes >> absolutely. >> Yeah. But but we have what a million bucks in the >> No, because we spent quite a bit on the
landing. So we're probably down to like 600,000. >> Okay. >> But but as you see on our budgets, we're scheduled to pay in another 167,000, >> right? >> Annually. >> So we have 600 now. We're gonna spend 400 over the next year as part of this >> maybe
>> project and we'll be putting you said a hundred in for this year to start refilling. >> Yeah, between the three line items it's approximately 167,000. Some of it's for equipment, the buildings and construction is kind of a >> great I mean you can call it what you you know wish.
>> Yeah. >> But it gives us that flexibility. >> Other questions or comments? I have one which I think is probably uh an obvious answer, but um it says phase one, new bath house, demo existing
bath house to construct new. I assume we're going to leave existing bath house 2 working until we built the other one. >> That's right. >> Okay. And the other thing is is that where we where we're putting the new bath house, we'll lose a couple of
spaces. I presume we'll replace them when we knock down number two. That's right, Steve. Good eye. Bath house 2 in the new position would consume four campsites off that corner. Bath house 2 where it lays now and is would be
demolished would create potentially two, maybe three, but very prime sites. >> So, it would be a slight loss of, you know, two sites versus four. But the location and the view and the corner where Bath House 2 currently stands, those would be premium sites. they would
return considerably more money. So, it's not a big effect to the bottom line on the site count. >> The other thing is on the gateway sign, um we've talked before about having the sign mentioned the things in town that the city runs, the library, the the
municipal liquor, the golf course, and the park. Is that still part of the discussion of that s entry level sign? >> Everything's up for discussion on the sign right now because it's not designed yet. Okay. Well, when you're ready to start thinking about the design, that's have
put it on the agenda. >> For sure. >> Thank you. Um, last bit of my parks report, like you already alluded to, Steve, we got the opera, pickup truck opera coming this Saturday at the Sledding Hill, 3M, free and open to the public. We got posters up in the park
and we're doing our best to get the word out. And if you or anybody who might be watching this has never seen the pickup truck opera, it's well, it's very accessible. It's not the kind of stuffy thing that you associate with opera. It's done with great humor and
inventiveness. Uh, and they even translate when they sing in French, they have a sign going across telling you what the message is in case you don't know French. Okay. Uh, anything else on the parks
report before we go to the budget? >> Quick question. >> Yes, sir. >> Dave, do you want to give a brief summary of the electric outcome just for the record? >> Oh, the Harbor Park upgrade was accomplished in time as if anyone sees the weekly newsletters, right? We kind of featured that a few weeks back when
the team from Nordic Electric came into the park mid July, executed the $35,000 power upgrade that we approved. Um, we really did good work, went smooth, put the park back together as we insisted, you know, not a lot of evidence of
digging thanks to like careful diggers and um, no hitting of fiber optic cables and so the the work itself went really well. It only lasted a week. Um, and we were able to host the picnic on time, no
interruptions to power. Um, I think we did just fine. like there was no calls to me personally or the park for power issues. Nordic uh Dave Sally happened to be volunteering at the Fishburgger stand on I believe Saturday
and was was or possibly Friday. I didn't get the exact timing of it, but he was summoned to look into some GFIs that were breaking like the smaller circuits, you know, the 20 amp because they're outdoors, they need to be GFI protected.
And the after some testing he determined the problem was on the vendor's end >> that they had old equipment that you know not properly grounded >> and they were tripping our sensitive GFI >> connections but that was minor. >> Well that was handy.
>> Yeah. And he didn't charge us for that. >> Um but the major power upgrade the 50 amp powers all worked really well. I was a little surprised to see the vendors all on Wisconsin, the big food trucks, you know, were right down Wisconsin and
>> a little bit congested for my taste. No use along First Street >> in front of >> In front of the trading post. Exactly. And you know, we set a pedestal in that location. part of the three pedestals that were installed. Well, there was one
going to the east, which was like the longest dig to get to that corner across from the trading post, and then there was one kind of to the north of the main like in like the tavern, across from the tavern, then one to the west down by the Johnson Heritage Post.
>> And the west and north ones were heavily loaded up because of all the vendors on Wisconsin and zero use of the pedestal across from the trading post. It'd be interesting to ask the Lions like who's in charge of that and maybe >> for sure. I've already talked to Pete
Kavanagh about >> Well, we're going to have a debrief like official meeting on the picnic in the coming week with the Lions and the downtown businesses and presumably that issue could be addressed by making people move a little closer to the other
>> section. Right. It's exactly the vendor coordinator has the ability to place vendors the most efficient effective way. And in this case, I I just didn't, >> you know, we don't do that. >> The Lions do that. We'll talk with the Lions.
>> We'll ask like why didn't you use this? >> But it gave me the sense of like it's plenty of room to grow. as we considered that option, you know, like we're kind of glad we didn't do the 800 amp upgrade >> because it would have been even more unused.
>> Sorry. >> Yeah. No, no. Um, but no, the bottom line is things went very well. The bouncy houses were inflated and the vendors >> were powered up. But from my perspective
as a pedestrian, the Wisconsin was very crowded. like there was no sidewalk, >> the bouncy houses and the food trucks all combined for just a bottleneck. >> But that's something we'll talk about with the Lions next week.
>> Cool. >> Anything else before we go to budget? >> Well, and the Lions can tell their vendors to check their ground fault before they show up. >> Yeah, >> that's legit. >> Yeah. >> Yeah.
>> Okay. All right. Uh the budget for 2026 has been distributed in a draft. um who has ideas they want to consider or suggest. >> Well, let me just give a little introduction to this because this is a
bit of a newer exercise I believe for this board based on my reflections on our roles and responsibilities discussion in the spring with the mayor when I went to our like founding documents and looked at our mission and roles and it talks about the budget >> and the fiduciary responsibility of this
board. And so in the past, I've just maybe briefed you on the budget. I haven't actually shared the numbers >> like we're doing tonight. So my apologies for that. But it's really in the city council's wheelhouse to like
finalize these numbers. But certainly as a board, we have the influence of rate adjustment on the revenue side. um expenses are a little more fixed, but if you'd like to see things moved around, like now's the time we can talk about things. And so I will appear
before a city council work session meeting in the next month or so is when department heads present their draft budgets to city council in a work session. Again, that's all the department heads and that's we're sort of scheduled backtoback in like a
two-hour slot. um similar type of discussions of line items and the revenue prediction is always sort of the fun and exciting part like how we going to do revenue-wise because that really determines the levy the final
levy. Believe it or not, wreck park revenue has a pretty big influence on that. And in years past, we always kind of estimate conservatively for revenue because of fuel prices and weather being
so impactful to our revenue. Uh we take conservative estimates to kind of buffer that, build that into the like worst case scenarios. Expenses too. We maybe like put in bigger numbers just in case.
Um, but as the season plays out and we fin get our final numbers in after October, council always kind of revisits those and adjusts up or down based on how we truly did this year because right now we're only halfway through the season. So, it's tough to project how
we'll finish. Although we know the trend. Um, but by October, November, we'll know for sure what we made this year. That'll firm up the council's confidence in what we'll make next year. And as you probably heard or seen, the the levy is
most times adjusted downward because of park and liquor store revenue performance. They set a preliminary number early that it can't be exceeded but then as the numbers come in the goal is to
minimize the levy for the taxpayers. So if we like to start on the revenue the you can see like big categories from the recreation and I should also explain how this budget works. There's different like within the parks department we have
different areas. Recreation is the campground, golf course is obvious, boat harbors is the marina and then city parks is the zeros at least for revenues. But on the
expense side, it's the downtown parks, harbor park, you know, boulevards, that sort of area. On the expense side, too, you'll see a line item for the swimming pool or the YMCA. >> Sure. >> And tennis courts. And those are kind of
county city collaborations. Yeah. That we have very little say in. But yeah, for the sake of my budgeting purposes and especially when it comes to expenses, I always split things out. If it's a garbage bill, you know, 75% of it
goes to the recreation line item for campground and 25% will go to the boat harbors for the marina. So there's, you know, distinction between different operations within the park in that
recreation being campground, golf course being Gunland Hills, and Boat Harbors being the marina. And so you can see how the campground is the big winner for revenue. And last year's numbers are in there. 2023 numbers are in there.
You can see some positive growth. You can see our our underestimating of how we'll finish in 2025. You know, 1.65 versus what we made in, you know, last year, 1.7.
But I will tell you, as I said, we I do conservative estimating on that. So my 1.6 6 89 is really just a 3% multiplier right on the bigger items of park space daily weekly
the 1.116 I take a 3% increase on that to come up with 1.149 so little bit of foreshadowing on rate adjustments for us that's why we always sort of suggest those ranges of 0 to 5% %
to mirror my projections. >> Um, so yeah, park space daily, weekly where we make the bulk of our money as we should because approximately over 200 of our 300 sites are in that category. So the proportions here match like sites
daily, weekly, it's the bulk of our sites. It's the bulk of our money. These other items like service taxable and non-t taxable are reservation fees. Um merchandise taxable is firewood.
Merchandise non-t taxable is clothing. Storage is kind of becoming less and less as the years go because we offer like these 12 month packages where storage is included on seasonals because then the other bigger item is the park space rental
approaching 500,000 last year. We were in at 408 this year. Those are our seasonal sites. >> That's where they leave them there all winter. >> Mhm. And currently it's about 90 sites
out of the 300. But keep in mind, we're due to last year's policy change on meeting that 20% threshold for funding, we're phasing out 30 or so of these seasonal sites to arrive at more of a 60 out of 300, 20% ratio,
>> which means our revenues will go up. >> Down for seasonals, up for weekly, nightly, >> but we make more money on the short terms than we do on the seasonals, right? in theory, but to keep it a little cleaner, I
didn't start to get into that right now where we've this season we've got three that are nightly weekly that were seasonal last year. And so that's going to be significant because each one of those seasonals returned approximately $4,000.
So that $12,000 of monthly isn't going to be there this year, >> but it might it would hopefully be $15,000 of nightly. >> And so, you know, it's going to it's going to have to take a while to kind of
straighten out that transition, but again, the bottom line is usually what we're after. And the conservative 3% growth on last year's projection is just the start of this draft. Paul supplies the golf course numbers,
but I help when needed. And in the golf course especially, it's much more flat as you see or there's not a lot of room to grow. We don't see those big like $100,000 differences in yeartoear. We But we have seen success. I mean, before
Paul was coming in with his program, we were, you know, revenue was more like a hundred,000 Boat harbors again really fluctuates with weather. Last year was a banner year. Never made that much. 137,000
was just a great combination of like large fuel sales, extended transient dock rentals. You know, the seasonal docks and the transient docks are all one. Unlike the campground that first
the first boat harbor line item dock fees 57 58 next year that's both transients and seasonals. >> We talked about transient dock spaces and how there we have >> two real ones.
>> We don't have we we don't have space for a lot of people who want to come here. Is it is there any sense that we ought to not have quite so many permanent or year round >> no >> dock spaces as opposed to transient ones?
>> No. And I'll tell you why. Because of demand and the design of the docks themselves. Our seasonals are all on the inside finger piers that are 30 feet or less. So they're the smaller fishing boats 25 28footers. Seasonal, local fisher folk use those slips and they get
used a lot and they pay accordingly. Transient Lake Superior cruising boats are 35 ft, 38, 48 feet. They're very rarely under 30 feet because of the size of the lake and the conditions. And so
our two guest slips for transients, they're 35 foot finger peers. They're off the end of the head peers. They're adjacent to the channel, purposely easy on, easy off. There really are only two suitable slips for 35T 40ft boats. So,
it's it's both a slip size and a bit and you know, navigation to that slip as well as demand. If there's one thing I've learned over time, we're not Bayfield, we're not Duth. We don't get 10 transients boats
that come to town that are looking for slips that I have to turn away eight of them. >> Is there have we had any discussions at all about increasing the number of transient slips in any of our capital planning down the road? >> Well, the master plan is very ambitious with that, Steve. If you recall, we want
to make the most of our marina. Move the break wall, dredge, retain, double our capacity, double transients. Yeah, there's tack of it in the master plan, but it's very ambitious. >> Okay, good. >> Do you turn away many people?
>> No. >> Or I get creative and call the folk school. >> Mhm. >> If someone drops anchor in the harbor, do you charge for that? >> Not for Anchorage. That's free. But mooring balls, we do charge. We have nine balls. Seven of our seasonal, two
of them are transients. We charge accordingly. Yeah. I saw somebody was just hanging offshore overnight. >> Mhm. >> Seemed to be doing fine. >> Yep. And that's the that's the free way to go. >> Y I don't remember that we've ever
increased any of the non park, you know, the non- camping fees. Uh we we pretty much raised all of our camping fees 3% most of the time. Mhm. >> Uh every year I've been here, but I don't remember ever dealing with any of
the charges for winter storage or moing or any of those things. And it seems to me that we ought to think about if we're going to be increasing the the the cost of the camping. >> For the most part, the people who own boats are in better shape financially
than the people who camp, the average. >> And you're just forgetting we do increase marina rates at the same time as camping rates. It's part of the discussion and they generally mirror camping increases. >> Okay. I'm glad to hear that when we >> and storage
>> and it's not just marina rates, it also is things like storage and whatever else that >> Absolutely. Yeah. When we look at rates in the fall, we include camping, boating, storage. The one maybe category that you leave up
to us is like firewood and ice and extra vehicles and extra bodies and the accessory rates that we adjust upwards as needed. But those are the smaller items of like service taxable, non-t taxable.
>> Do other people have comments or questions? >> There are no plans to change the office location or size. Not in the short term, Bob, but based on working with LHB and seeing some of their inspired designs, it's in the it's in the phase
three. >> Okay. >> You know. Yeah. It's >> cuz it's cute, but it's not very big, >> right? And it's congested. >> Yeah. Not bad. And so at I mean at the open house we heard that we put out an
option that showed a bath house or a wreck hall office combine >> on the right side of the road on the west side of the road that >> is easy on easy off pull in. Even now I'm in that pool parking lot like yeah
this is >> before we get to that has there been any thought given to rearranging the space that we do have uh to make it less congested and more efficient. There's basically this the space that's as you come in and off to the left is is dead
space. It's not being used for much of anything except for people to stand and wait in line. >> Well, no folks that know pull in and there's a turnaround island there. No, no, I'm talking about in the building itself. >> Oh, in the little office. Well, that doesn't seem to be the point of congestion. In my experience, it's the
hillside, you know, three rigs up the hill, but we get them in and out quick and we get I can do three terminals. >> So, you're saying that in in the short and medium term, yeah, >> the the house works well enough. >> Works great. >> Okay. >> And I'll always say this this there's
something to be said for the nostalgia and the >> the smell of it. People walk in and they're like, "Ah, even the LHB team liked it." But >> we all agree it's like a the there will be a day when the office
will no longer suit us and the better plan is to put it on the west side and make it flow better with traffic and include a community room in it. >> Yeah, that makes sense. >> I have a couple questions just mostly just because I want to know what what
these are for. >> Um the the bank charges in >> credit card fees. >> Yeah. Like three and a half% on 1.7 million. >> Yeah. >> Because everybody's paying with a card these days. >> And like we don't So I've never been a
fan of credit card processing fee add-on like the restaurants are doing. >> We just hope we build that into our rates. >> Oh. Uhhuh. Yeah. Um, yeah. And then I was Yeah, I was curious about the those capital outlay
categories, but I think I I think I understand that now. >> Well, good. because I've for years had trouble understanding them, but they they equate to like placeholders and or like not so much seed money, but we'll
pay that into our dedicated capital fund in these amounts annually and then spend cash for things when we need to. >> Uhhuh. And so these bigger amounts you know the for buildings 90,000 70,000
and9 those are all based on kind of loosely based on our master planning and particularly the equipment is on a scheduled replacement schedule like new truck every 10 years >> new mowers etc. We kind of purposely like keep things going and fix things.
We just have that attitude of like we don't need a new truck so that money just accumulates. Mhm. >> And the same for buildings and construction. Like we >> whether or not we spend it, it gets allocated to our fund. >> Yeah, that's great.
>> And we do that generously in the campground because I think we have the revenue to support that or it doesn't like impact the levy. >> But like in the golf course, you >> right, >> you know, you'll see that we don't have
a lot in there. It's like 15,000. Mhm. And so Paul struggles with that a lot because you know he needs every year to be buying equipment and it's expensive equipment
>> and you can see like the trend there like 23,000 20,000 like he's he's overspending his capital >> sure >> allocation to buy carts and mowers and blowers and irrigation
and it's been a a real struggle to properly fund the golf course with a realistic capital number that reflects the real cost of doing business up there and the long-term cost. Like the 15,000
doesn't really reflect buying 12 carts this fall. And that's the that's where we as a committee and then the city council as the purse stringh holders >> have to sort of suspend the budget and
say well we need it. >> Oh >> we'll spend it we have it >> and then it comes out of >> the general fund. >> Uhhuh. >> But a lot of times because of our overperformance of park revenue >> sure >> there's extra money.
>> Yeah. I my only other question was was on the golf course budget. It didn't make um in the revenue part. Mhm. >> It just didn't make sense to me about the daily cart rentals
and the seasonal private cart fees that if not there's not it doesn't look like there's this year half year >> been much revenue in the daily cart rentals but then he's saying that
they're they they're they don't have enough and >> I got this kid it's good eye good by and this is a gets adjusted because he sells in his till in his point of sale he has a button that's nine holes in a cart for
>> $48 or whatever and 28 of that is the nine holes and 20 of that is the cart. And so you'll see up under daily fees right now they're like well maybe they're not that far up but this happens every year where because of the combined
sales in the point of sale system of nine holes in a cart >> it's initially allocated to daily fees >> and then in October I go back into that point of sale system and I see oh he sold like 793 of those packages >> and I do the math to split out how much
should go to daily fees and how much should go to daily cars. carts. >> Yeah, cuz it with I keep hearing about needing new carts and needing new carts and needing new carts and like well it doesn't look like you're using them. So, >> yeah. No, we just we have to make an adjustment in the fall where >> that money is split out of a package.
>> Okay. >> I uh with regard to the golf revenue >> forecasting flat, it seems to me is negative thinking. He says we're really busy. Um, if we're really busy, revenues should be going
up. Uh, seems to me that we should I I noticed that we're forecasting an increase in expenditures of about 20 grand. And I think we ought to forecast an increase of revenues that's at least equal to that so the amount of sub subsidy doesn't increase dramatically.
>> Well taken. >> The other thing is is that if we forecast an increase in revenues, it focuses the staff's maybe more on generating that revenue on the margin. So, I'm I'm wondering if that isn't a sensible thing to do to to
raise the revenue forecast 20 grand to match the uh increase in expenses. Uh the bottom line, >> I hear you. I don't disagree with you. I would suggest that would be included in
the rate increase discussion and that we would be able to account for that not through increased play. >> See, I'm not increased play than on increased rates because our rates I think are now competitive with other similar courses
to ours around the arrowhead. >> Um >> or more. And so my sense is is that the that we have maxed out to some extent on our charges for the nine-hole play. So
the solution has to be other other sources of revenue or increased numbers of people playing. We've still got plenty of time for people to show up and play. Most of the time I can't remember ever having to wait more than 15 minutes
to play. just block it on and if there's somebody on the first tee, those of us who know what we're doing go up to the fourth tea and tee off and then we play the last the first three holes last. Uh so there's no problem with capacity in the course at this point. And I think
our energy needs to be focused on generating more play wherever we can find it by electronic advertising or whatever it is that that we do by mixing our stuff with other events, all those kinds
of things. >> So, give some thought in your budget to increasing the the revenue demand and see if that doesn't happen. >> Yeah. And and like you see the true like where we finished this year is likely
hopefully you know going to be over 165 which might give us even more confidence than to go bigger next year. >> Yeah. I I don't have a specific recommendation except the general notion that if we're going to increase our expenses,
we should try to find a source of revenue for it if we can so that we don't have people complaining >> about the size of the subsidy. >> It's a good point. Did anyone want to look at these expenses further? Like there's there's where we
really get a lot of line items going, but I'm happy to answer any questions on those. They're all pretty self-explanatory. You can see bigger items in the recreation area, you know, aside from staff, which are kind of the top 15 lines or so. That's
something actually like Kim and the city hall supplies a lot of those numbers for me, particularly the insurance and the workers comp and that sort of business. But the real spending categories are the uh repair. What are we under? Like
operating supplies 20ome,000 that's toilet paper, cleaning products, all our consumables, and then repair and maintenance supplies. A few items down there at the 220 25,000.
That's that's where we spend significant money on. contractors fixing electrical problems, G&G, jetting plugged sewers, and then all the fix it parts we buy locally and online. New toilets, new paint, new
whatever breaks. >> Dave, what is 310 service agreement? >> That is our online booking machine. The Firefly >> Oh. Oh, yeah. >> online booking software that we use. That too has become a big number. Um,
yeah, because we pay $3.50 per transaction. When we book someone, we have to pay this group 350. And obviously, it's a bit of a pass through because we charge a $10 reservation fee. >> So, we cover it plus $650.
>> But, yeah, it's a significant expense when we're more and more people are using this. As we grow bookings, that fee will grow as well. but it's somewhat flat in that upper 30s. It's a newer feed though. In the past,
we bought the software. We owned it in house and we didn't have to pay that >> subscription as a service is what it's known as because it's a cloud-based >> reservation system. >> It's only a third of what bank charges are. Mhm.
Yeah. That that number just like I remember that was half of what it's now. But a lot everything's changed with COVID and cash is no longer popular and everybody's even when we're selling a $3 bag of ice, it's on the card.
>> Oh yeah. >> Right. >> I have a couple of big picture questions. Mhm. >> If I look at the revenue from recreation, it's one the projected revenue is a million689220.
>> Mhm. >> And the expenses projected for recreation if I read it right are,25 n is that nine >> million. A million >> that's roughly
that's about $650,000 to the good is that's roughly similar to what it's been in years past. Mhm. >> Exactly. You can see in 2024 the expenses were 1,18,000 and the revenue was what? 1.7
>> 14. So 700,000 last year was our net. >> Okay. Yeah. The other thing I note is that if you look at the bottom line of all these things that the total income uh is 1 1968730.
The total expenditure is 1553820. That's a difference of what roughly $400 some thousand. >> Mhm. of that 102 is the golf courses
projected loss at this point. What would be what would account for the other the difference between the 650 and the and the four something? >> The swimming pool payment to the county for
18,000. >> Okay, that that answers my question. and the city parks minor loss of I mean that's like a $45,000 for you know city park maintenance that we don't collect fees on.
>> I have two other questions that affect the budget. Number one, are you paid enough? >> You don't have to answer that question right this minute, >> but one of the jobs of the board is to make sure that our staff >> has somebody at
arguing for it. That's number >> advocating. Yes. Yes. >> Uh the uh and the the my second question really is compared to other city department heads, >> are you similarly compensated? >> Yeah. No, good fair question, Steve.
Interesting timing on this as well because as a organization, the city is is involved with a pay equity project right now. Actually, the administrator and the department heads are working on revising job descriptions and rescoring
points for a lot of the union positions. In particular, the union and the contractor up for renegotiation this fall for all of our seasonal employees and non-depart heads. They're in the union. Their wages are negotiated
every other year or so. They're based off a very archaic point system from the 80s or 90s that you know 73 points for a custodian and 83 points for a front desk. So the front desk makes a little more and it's like we've got some pay
equity issues on in some of the lower entry level positions that we're working on as an organization to get some parody. Um but the department has had a there's a consultant helping us and they did a a income study of other similar
size cities and similar size positions and found to be be quite fair. Like all of our current pay scale for department heads is within 95ish% of where it should be. >> Well, that's good.
>> It it Yeah, it was reassuring. >> 95% uncovered. Well, but there's where we're working towards like performance-based pay is on the table right now for department heads, whereas in the past we've sort of gone with how the union goes. If the union gives 3%,
department heads get 3%. And it sounds like that's about to change. We'll have a range. It'll still only be 0 to five, but based on your performance, your pay will be affected. Um, and then the best joke of the mall when I come down here
and ask for more money is the assumption that I'm not doing this for the money. [Laughter] >> We fully understand that the U. >> But I feel I mean, like I say, we it's
interesting that you asked all that because we're as a group, >> the mayor and the personnel committee are hard at work on making sure everybody's paid fairly. And >> I want to note one point and that is that you might use in your discussions
with whoever it is that I guess the council and the city administrator make the decision and that is we're one of the few profitm enterprises that the city runs right the liquor store and us it >> right
>> uh if you continue to make profits for the city that ought to be a part of your compensation thought right >> bonus right that's I always ask Bart see le >> I don't want I don't want to be kissing too much here but >> no I appreciate it
>> it does seem to me we have some role in in uh advocating for the staff not only you but you know the union people as well >> appreciate it >> I like how you're whenever you're u
speaking about how things are going at the park or your report or you're on the radio, whatever, you're always giving the staff credit. And um I just think that comes right back at you, you know, like if you if you've got a happy staff
and >> that speaks a lot about their leadership. So, >> well, thank you, Kay. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. A lot of that comes from maybe my passion for sports and teamwork and sort of a model of, you know,
coaches and quarterbacks and those kind of high-profile positions are only as good as their linebackers and water boys and, >> you know, defensive. And so it's it's it really plays out to my whole team that >> as an effective leader, I need to like
recognize them and appreciate them. Mhm. >> Speaking of your passion for sports, I think it's time that you scheduled a round of golf with me and Matt at least. Okay. If you want to play >> in September. My boys playing up there almost every day now. So, >> yeah. >> I'll have to get up there.
>> That's cool. >> Yeah. Yeah. The the youth and the golf is is a big growth market right now. The because of North Point. >> That's great. >> And their scholarship programs where they're subsidizing memberships. you know, we, you know, already reported they've got, I think, close to 40 kids
on the >> on the Monday night program. Not all of them play at once, >> but it's really refreshing to see those youngsters coming up in the golf ranks and really enjoying the game and being challenged by it and sticking with it. So, >> that's definitely been a goal of ours is
to get kids up there and it's been working >> great. For those of you who know about the golf course, the seventh hole, the dog leg left to the tall trees between you and the hole. And my baby son today
hit his drive from the tea over the trees to about 20 yards to the right of the green. It was very impressive. >> The second time he hit it into the trees. >> That's the fun of the game.
Well, again, thank you for your attention to the budget. It's a draft. You're welcome to continue to comb through it. Stop by, send me an email, give me a call if something strikes your fancy. I will talk to Paul about the revenues and that idea of like
increasing to reflect a increased cost as well as that and and we've said this all along like to set the bar higher to you know encourage we go after some of these >> and if it's going to take another thousand dollars of advertising money to
get in more places on the internet by all means I hope you'll do that. >> Yeah. It's just, you know, for Paul especially, he's a he's a grounds keeper. He's an agrarian. He grows great grass. He's sells the product all day. >> Very happy with the grass.
>> Yeah. But I would say in this for him is not a a detraction, but he's not a marketeteer. >> Yeah. I don't mind marketing so much, so I need to help him more with that. >> That'd be great. >> Do we have any other business to come before us?
>> How far how far short of breaking even is the golf course? like 50,000 60,000. I mean, you can see the projected 100 doesn't usually end that badly. Like, let's just look at
2024 numbers, right? Because they made like 160 and I think they only spent. Got to get to that page. 227. So 57,000 60,000.
>> It's in that 50 to 60 range. >> Is that ever going to narrow? You think >> it has in Paul's leadership? >> Mhm. >> It was closer to 70 80. >> Mhm. But it's a niche game. Like it's
>> not everybody golfs and when you're at the end of the road especially. We'll see. I mean, a lot, you know, Superior Nationals, I believe, got some real interested party in the sale. >> Nothing official, but like a second showing.
>> But depending on what, you know, how things go down there, I think has a big impact for us >> and that would be positive, right? >> Not necessarily. Like if they get better and >> cheaper
>> cheaper, which is unlikely, right? So right most signs would indicate positive. >> I think more people playing superior national iss good for us. >> I think so any qualification you how much it's good for us depends on a lot of things but I if there are more people coming up to the shore to play golf
>> it's >> there's more people going to come here >> only 20 miles. >> Yep. And the one thing we ought to talk about when the new folks come by the course, if they do, is some kind of joint
promotion with Superior National, pay your warm-up round at Grand Flint Hills. You play pay play your full round when the rates go down in the afternoon >> or, you know, play play a cool down round after you've done your 18. come
come here and see if you can manage this course which has a slope of 133 which is equal to the white TE's in St at Spir National. It's a serious golf course and I don't think most people really know that and we need to tell the world that that you're playing a course that has as
much toughness as you would want or if you want to play the fronties it's little less. >> Steve, I can see you in the ad. Yeah, >> I can I can >> if if that becomes useful, I'm willing to think about it, but I'm not
campaigning for it. >> You got the passion. >> Yeah. >> Pardon? >> You have the passion. >> Well, you know, it's it's an obsession of a kind. >> Okay. Obsession. >> That's like a passion right there. >> There there you said it. There are few
things in the world that give a person more happiness than a shot like my son hit today. You know, it makes up for all the other bad stuff that might happen during the on the course during that day. Just that one shot. >> And and the fact that that shot might
get repeated >> is really quite seductive. Uhhuh. That's great >> for all of us. >> Okay. >> This is the only board I know of where
you can incidentally keep tabs on your progeny out gulfing. >> Say that again. >> Said this is the only board I know of where you can keep tabs on your progeny out gulfing. Just as an incidental finding. >> This is great.
>> Yeah. He'll love it. >> Any other business before we adjourn? >> Yes, I know. >> Any other business before we adjourn? Last call. All right, we are adjourned.