##VIDEO ID:yxM4ibytehc## audience and we have a quorum so I'll call the meeting to order are we ready Patrick pardon I got to have a picture I have to turn this thing on don't I about beeping there we are am I going to have to do the captions on my phone again yes okay and we are um and where is the link to it should be in your email okay the one that says Patrick KN baby I will ask to join and as soon as I've admitted we'll start I guess we can do the minutes in the agenda while we're waiting do anybody want to do anything different than what's on the agenda I don't think we can do that before we start can we pardon are we started yet oh I i' called us to order a moment ago and then I stopped because I didn't have the captions but oh you got them I don't need them for this part oh okay I see waiting for excuse me EXC got now I have maybe yeah he needs I know you got to muted somehow well he's doing that uh does anybody want anything different on the agenda Steve I got a suggestion for the new business yes 2025 goals and priorities yeah given our three out of five members present put the next table till March that's fine everybody agree with the idea of tabling new business goals and priorities for 20125 to the next meeting yes good and that'll again be the uh first Tuesday mhm okay I suppose we should look up the date of that while we're at the fourth I think it's the fourth that would be March 4th okay then with that a amendment is there any other objection to the agenda hearing none the agenda is approved unanimously then we have the December minutes everybody had a chance to read them as much as they want anybody have any changes they would like I see shaking heads so without objection the minutes from the last November meeting I'm sorry December meeting are approved unanimously okay um next item is on the agenda is the election of the board chair and vice chair Vice chair should be easy because des's not here to defend himself oh is he so elected are there any nominations for the chair chair for the next year uh well I have an email here from from nesam nominating step ald well okay he would support the nomination of St that I will serve for the chair for chair yeah yeah absolutely I'll second that is there anybody wait you should make it because Bob's not here he's just I think I'll make a motion that we uh continue to have Steve as our chair is there a second to your motion I can second that is there any discussion are there any other nominations they're being done I guess I've been elected congrat and then we need a motion with regard to Vice chair is that Bob next him right now I thought it was K no Bob been Vice chair all along okay thanks Bob do you want to continue him in the role I'll nominate Bob for the role of Vice chair that's right I'll second that is there any discussion any other nominations there're being n Bob desab is now the vice chair see what happens when you don't make it to a meeting we should have made him secretary now we have on the list a city council report but we lack a city counselor maybe you could stand in for him to the extent it's useful yes but I don't I I have little to report I know the building I think is is you know the new city hall liquor stores on everybody's mind the particular liquor store component opening is eminent within the month couple weeks ago I think we're still on that same timeline like arish yeah yeah okay yeah that will generate Revenue while they're finishing the building well yeah that's the point um and but perhaps a good segue into my report the parks report before we do that uh one other thing and that is the city adopted a levy finally that was they said it was likely to be less than 5% do we know what it is there okay it is less than 5% we'll table that till the next meeting yes okay all right then we have the parks report which appears to be well I sent it out this morning in a email reminder it didn't print copies but I can touch on it the city council did have a nice PowerPoint presentation uh last week just at their last meeting in January Tracy Benson mayor Benson put together kind of an annual thank you to the city staff so she was very eloquent in naming all of our city employees and then I think uh like a power Point slideshow highlighting different departments accomplishments in 2024 and so we saw across the board all the Departments very active in projects and of course the city hall liquor store was a big one um the streets department helped move all that merchandise get in the liquor store into the beaver house was a big accomplishment for them as well as taking care of all the storage and you know getting out of the Old City Hall is really big streets department project um the sewer and water Department's been very busy with uh infrastructure upgrades uh the wastewater treatment plan in particular is in need of a major overhaul and the new Wastewater superintendent Scott Warner is on board for that and he's very very capable and they're working towards securing funding for upgrades to that facility um the power department is been very busy putting in three-phase power to a lot of these new developments you know the new apartments and all the new all the new housing and businesses that are coming online is certainly relying on the power Department the library served you know thousands of uh um visitors users Amanda St John from the library had a lot of facts and figures on how many programs were attended and pingpong table got played 159 times I stuck stuck for me but then when it came to the parks department we had a lengthy list of accomplishments I feel like 2024 was really really one of those high water mark years where we uh were designated regionally significant with the Greater Minnesota regional parks and trails commission you know that was our biggest achievement or one of the biggest the completion of the Overlook landing and the fabulous ribbon cutting ceremony we had in there in June was a real highlight for us the paving of 8th Avenue The Parkside public water access re receiving the state's organization of for borders award the soo award was a big one the bear in The Boat back in the library Gateway was a minor uh accomplishment major and you know overall our Google reviews moving up from 4 five stars to 4.6 Stars was something they mean the Park Park Rec Department yeah good congratulations you know something I track as a measure of our success uh and as well as you know financially we over outperformed our projected Revenue to the tune of like 124,000 so really successful the annual profit we send over is in the range of $750,000 as I recall oh gosh that sounds like a lot probably more like 500 after we take out our Capital lines okay because we fund our our capital on a separate line item but yeah we did very well and of course our dedicated staff is really the highlight of the My Season every year just the fact that we have such a strong dedicated team that we just can't think enough so that was really nice to see the city council acknowledge that those of us who walk our dogs in the park uh in the winter time are really appreciative that the plows get out before we do yes yes Aaron does a fine job it's like Crawfield Road without the and there are lots of people uh out walking with and without dogs it seems like every day when we're down there we we meet people coming and yeah we love to see that that's really why we promote the park as public year round today Gary zman and I met Lois whose last name I can't call which embarrasses me a little bit our 90-year-old uh church member and uh she was out walking with her landlord great uh this morning in 4 de weather I was impressed wow so I don't know if you go down there and but uh Sunset is huge yeah all if you go down there cuz when when it's a clear sky there's always a huge amount of people down there yes um either in the that new DNR parking lot or by the the the little walk out there and things and there's always people out there sweetheart gets a fair amount of sliding we had some kids over there the other day and I was amazed at how how far they go when it gets flat and how fast they go that's a slick Hill so 2024 a Very Good Year the other big thing we did was to clean out the trees that got knocked down primarily in sweetheart gluff as I recall yes and no there's you know the tree boards met they've studied the Sweetheart's Bluff in particular has a has a kind of a wild unmanaged uh you know designation right now so they're looking at more management perhaps for that area we've just been more sort of reactively taking care of wind blown trees right but yeah that's just something we do okay but um yeah a really nice way to look back on last year and it's going to be hard to beat so back to the city C or the city New City Hall the bathrooms yes they looking oh you know I haven't been there personally see them I've seen pictures that look really nice like wall to wall tile right right triple amenities like yeah they should be great and so how is that going to affect our does anybody here or in the audience know Gunflint view is does hasn't had much going on in the project in the last week or so I presume they're waiting for parts but I don't know that no they they got it all closed in except for the garage doors and then it seemed to stop for a week or so yeah I don't know thata okay yeah so so we're not doing the portable restroom trailer if that's what you're asking that's my question is that's not going to be back up no is it in storage it is MHM and we hope to that take advantage of the buyback program from the manufacturer that we purchased it from had a somewhat of a elusive I don't have a price but in April we are going to follow up on that cuz you should or you had to own it for a year and then it's eligible for a buyback from them yeah mhm is there a market for it otherwise perhaps a market for a what for the uh the portable trailer yeah we'll see how we do with the buyback program but otherwise there is that idea of like a selling swap oh there's a group I bet there is I bet uh so let's see other highlights from the parks report in January of course it's the reservations month for July arrival so we've seen all sorts of action on the online booking machine in particular the date rolls forward automatically at midnight Central Time and so that is when folks are booking because it's really based on departure dates as far as when people can get in you can stay for up to 14 nights so you know when July 1st was available to reserve on January 1 it wasn't that all 150 sites were available July 1st because of overlaps because of June 25th through July 5th and so that's the case now where you look at our grid of we're very booked and it's all based on checkout dates as far as when you can get in and so people are stay up late they're pinging the online machine at midnight to get in for what's now August 4th is the latest we're booking as February dates are matching August dates but of course the picnic went I was going to say the picnic's not available always goes uh like I mentioned in my report there's a gaming of the system where folks are booking earlier like the 22nd of July through August 4th and then two days later they send an email you know actually we're not coming till the 31st change of plans we're keeping track we did this last year too there's it it's a it used to be a handful of people maybe Nows two hands and so we're monitoring the situation and if it starts to really become a problem we need to look at like penalties or date change fees or something how are we doing in terms of reservations compared to last year at this time uh haven't run that number I'm assuming even or not down okay next month let's talk about that yeah okay yeah uh the DI are doing great in the marina we've had real winter you know really cold couple weeks ago 20 below I thought oh jeez we're going to be down to just a little bit of open water but actually they've kept up quite nicely we've actually added a few more as we're floating the the new kayak dock is in the marina now and it's got a couple deicers around it on the end of a do that are helping keep more water open on the end of a do and for any otter lovers out there that the otter love that platform that's like their little slip and slide the kayak one yeah we can get a picture of the an otter one day perhaps to three of them I've seen pardon there's I've seen three at once well I'm wondering if we get a photograph to put in the local newspaper oh try you otter do that you otter do that yeah uh and last but not least the land trust you know we in the with the conservation eement we do an annual uh like monitoring inspection visit they did that in August they sent us a letter last month we're great no negative conservation values infractions no no issues there they also I think formally reviewed our master plan and approved it in concept so that's great we're good with the land trust all right anything else that you want to share before we any questions that you folks might have okay well the next item on the agenda is the one that brought everybody here I see four people in the audience do you all want to speak I think that's a good idea Steve I think so we don't in like a city council meeting format they do an open form at the beginning of a meeting where you know public is allowed to speak and it's I don't know they get a five or 10 minute time block but then that's about it they don't speak during discussion so I I would understand that I would support Al we can ask them questions if we would yep yep and if you do speak use one of the two microphones that are on their front desk there um so uh I if I understand it correctly the uh principal subject here is the recommendation from the CC to approve the project and so I suppose we should hear from whoever is speaking on behalf of the CC first sure if there are only two of you then you can each have a mic I just I have a question so the artist is on he just got on there he is is there a way you can put his picture on mine too only when he's speaking we only have one input to the TV so okay I'm only able to why don't we put him up instead since I I since I know what what we look like okay excellent sure I can go thanks all right so who is to speak first and identify yourself and tell us what you'd like us to know all right so I'm Jan severtson the current chair of the um creative economy collaborative and as you know we've been here before with u Moab Solomon's project and um we realized that there were still a lot of questions that we needed to answer and Moab um needed to do some more work to bring back to you with a more professional rounded out clear um proposal for you and um we um as a board voted um unanimously to confirm that the language regarding our approval as Jan said was unanimous um we were sent back after that last meeting to consider moving from a conceptual kind of design to more factual um details regarding H you know the Integrity the engineering some of those things so we approved pending changes of language around the potential candidate sites and also with the addition of the city's plans around Boulder Park just you know including those um items and our hope is is to really support artists in guiding them in the process of you know of what they are presenting and giving them the right steps to take so after this meeting should this be approved then the next step is at the city level because the city their prerogative is to ensure any public art is a gift and so Moab would then go to the city for that um next step after do you have anything else in your presentation do you wish the artist to speak as part of it yeah I think Moab wants to kind of outline and revisit his presentation from last time and show what things have changed and been solidified since then does anyone else want to speak if the anyone else should speak as well uh I thought he he should speak as at the beginning to to tell us let's get all the guests in um well except did you guys want to say something that would be helpful to me to here yeah I think we should have the artist first and then have the other folks he's part of the presentation of the C I think go ahead please okay hi um I think I'm on with you all um I hope you can hear me okay um yeah thank you for having me back and thank you Ruth and I hadn't really been able to hear too well with the with the microphones but I think um they kind of gave some basic context of the CC process and um the uh re-approval of the project to come back before you with some new developments and uh I had shared you know apologies kind of a a long um updated proposal dock um I thought I would just flip over to that and just kind of try to cover some of the main points of that um before you know taking any questions and and everything else so let me see if I can easily do that um see okay let's see here um okay sorry one second here okay here we go okay I hope you all can see now um The Proposal that I shared with you um this is an updated version and I just was going to kind of flip through um some of the basics uh I don't need to spend time on this but it's a recap for anyone who wasn't familiar with the project the first time um and if you have any questions kind of about that we can just go back to it um I wanted to highlight you know the the new installation vision and the plan um and this out of a lot of feedback from the CC um and other community members and also just some really concrete material developments that I know um were you know vital for the park board to feel like they had an you know more informed um position to be discussing the project um the first time this came before you it had a really different design um it was sort of standing up alone embedded um kind of at a you know 40° angle out of the earth um and it was going to be kind of in a um you know kind of a more open field area um I if you can see my arrow here it's kind of just circling this gravel grass area um that is part of Boulder Park um and I you know got diverse comments and feedback on that um which has led to you know what I feel is just a much better plan in a lot of different ways um I'll try to kind of summarize this again in a clear way um and I think the diagram the the new um project installation diagram we'll explain that but I just kind of wanted to talk through the points as you're reading them um the idea here is to um propose installing the project in a a second spot that um was selected in consultation with Dave um not approved you know but just selected in consultation he knows this the space and it's not before you as the primary proposed spot um it's in you know the rip wrap or the large Boulder pile that you can see here again in the map that's on the side of Boulder Park um and uh there are other you know possible spots we can discuss but this is just for various reasons that I'll get into you know much more Superior location um and now instead of the uh Driftwood tree um you know kind of being up in the air and um being solitary um the idea is to kind of secure uh the tree inside The Boulders um and then adding other U boulders to you know create a secure um you know position for it um and then also putting rods within the rocks and the tree you know as according to the um engineer and sculptor um collaborators who I'm working with and I can talk about them later um the degree um you know of the the the sculpture um you know was also a point of issue and I can totally appreciate that and hopefully now having kind of come down a little bit to a better angle will be appealing to you all the idea to having it is having it cancer lever at 20 degrees exact angle and direction are you know still to be determined in consultation with the engineer and the sculptor and the actual site um and you know all of these changes you know I feel really step up the safety and stability of the sculpture um there's a for sure a concern about non-disturbance of sight lines and foot traffic in the location I think that's really um solid um and you know of course I'm just kind of preoccupied with the visibility and legibility of um this line of poetry that will be embedded in the Driftwood I can get into that process a little bit more but um you know the the the new diagram that you'll see is really kind of allowing these um bullet points to I think really guide um the new installation plan um of there but it's also kind of not there because I'd like to think it's a much more sight specific installation and really responsive to the environment playing with the elements of Boulders Driftwood land water um in a way that I think is really beautiful and really simple and really um you know just gets to the heart of the project that's um meant to think about Great Lakes Nature and culture and elements interacting together um and you know as I said before it responds to feedback that I got from you all and you know from other folks and um for sure appealing I I'm certain it's least logistically and financially you know um costly so this is the project as it now is designed um you can see some very basic measurements that you know work out to the angle I was suggesting 20 25 degrees here I think um the the tree that you see here is the actual tree that we have and I can show you other um images of that momentarily so this is the actual object we have it secured um The Boulders that you see here are actual Boulders from the site this is you know exactly where this would be um I've just taken them and manipulated them to show a possible stacking and securing of the object what you don't see here would be rods that further hold the tree in place um uh let's see if I'm missing anything here so highlighted are the boulders um still rods um yeah you know the exact measurements and angles um really come together once we start doing a much more sight specific and intensive uh plan um you know after approval um but you know we're really ready to do that um I've got a I think is it the next one I can move real quick this is the tree itself multiple angles I know it looks different but this is the object it's about 30 feet long um about 3 feet average diameter um really solid really you know thick it doesn't have any Crooks um it's really ideal um and I also really you know we were excited to to have something that has some kind of compellent he you know gives his um you know uh Insight uh about the process the project the recommendations um about how we would actually do the installation and I'm happy to go through those in a Q&A if we want to um you know he lists some of the risks that uh we spoke spoke with at the CC and um at the park board and um you know I took those to him and we kind of just you know talked through those but of course it's important to have those here um and we can talk through those again but you know I just you know wanted to say that I you know feel like this is a really qualified trustworthy and you know excellent collaborator and I'm really lucky to have him um in in collaboration too with um Jim s the sculptor um so you know he's just kind of got a lot more to bring to this project but um at this stage you know the diagram and this feasibility report um were um important to address some of the you know uh gaps that we had last time um okay um yeah you know I I'm trying if I have other updates here you know uh the insurance as I previously reported the city manager confirms that this project would be insured by the if it makes it through the processes of course um because of its functioning as a quote unquote gift to the city which is a particular um you know uh a particular category that the city works with with artworks like similar to the sculptures that are already on site at Boulder Park um I'm currently working on this uh other aspect which is sourcing the words um from uh different partners in the community and February and March are really meant to be about putting together this PO IC line that comes from um Community generated language in response to the bolded statement here three words that describe or capture this corner of the Great Lakes for you um and I you know started that and it's it will continue um through the spring um timeline um is the same uh you know January through March sourcing words um experimenting with you know activities with the project once once it's installed andun would be the installation um and kind of a public event um with you know hopefully more to come in the future and um you know I wanted to just again make a note about my own deadline um I come to this project with two grants um two Arts grants uh an State Grant and a regional Grant um that are you know fully secured and and uh it's all the money that I need to complete this project is you know coming from my end of it um but you know the deadline for the project for the grants to be used or basically returned um is no later than June 30th and so you know this has been driving my um timeline from the get-go you know um early last year when I approached you all so excuse me for talking at length you know I'd love to um talk some more you know feeli any questions or anything else U thank you does any of you folks have questions I guess if do any of you have questions that you want to ask him before you speak I guess I will do identify yourself for the record please I will thank you all uh I'm Anne bratus I live in Grand marray I'm a taxpayer I was formerly on the C I am no longer I'm citizen Anne I am here to talk to you as a taxpayer I am here to thank the group for reworking this propos proposal it is different it is improved and in my mind it's still not adequate in terms of addressing potential safety and damage to property issues for which taxpayers of grand marray would be liable should this 3,000 lb log become unmowed and crash into a bodily harm to a person damage expensive watercraft in that Harbor uh I hope you understand coming UNM can you enlighten as to who the NorthShore Management Group is by institution and or by people this is the NorthShore management plan and I I believe it is I don't know what it I don't know where its Authority comes from but a deals with zoning along the NorthShore and the meeting was in silverbay not Two Harbors correct it was Silver Bay there's a Northshore management plan that is mainly focused on wetlands and oh well the shoreline to prevent erosion Etc I I can send you the link I know the mayor of two Harbor was one of themuse use on the North Shore yeah uh I believe it's uh uh remit comes from the Great Lakes compact I can send you the link to it very good do you have anything to add to that right now okay but but this is not my main concern I'm saying the health and saf or just the safety uh to people and property damage potential it has not been adequately addressed in my mind I I'm continuing to hear this described in artistic terms as beautiful interesting powerful this at this point is an engineering project to secure a 3,000 lb piece of wood on a beach that is a dynamic environment I heard nothing about studies of wind patterns of Beach remodeling of ice heaves that's what engineering reports talk about and I haven't seen it here so that makes me think that this is still in ill-considered I have you seen the engineering report an yes I have and I have not seen data I have seen qualitative not quantitative this is an engineering project and I am not opposed to this project I'm opposed to an ill-planned project and still believe it's not adequately planned if you decide to go forward I would request that you please consider two things one is reducing this unreasonably large time span that was cited in the city council news or the city's newsletter of the the sculpture would be on the beach for 5 to 10 years that's a big time span could we be more specific and I would espe I would recommend two years could we live with it for 2 years and see see how it performs could we have data I would love to see interim report at one year to say how much City Park Personnel time did it take to rescure it to take off offensive graffiti uh those kind of questions so as I say reduce the time frame please not 5 to 10 years the second request I would ask you to sugest to consider do not accept this as a gift a $3,000 pound log on the beach in perpetuity and it becomes our problem the City of Grand morray we have to maintain it Steward it if we decide we don't want it we have to get rid of it when I say we I mean taxpayers we pay for it this is not all right so please if this goes forward it's not a gift when the time is up the artist comes and retrieves his log takes it home this is customary for many artists it goes back to the studio or tours somewhere else thank you any questions from you on my okay thank you do you want to speak now um yeah I just uh I am Margaret H again state your name for the record if you would Margaret hedstrom I live east of grand marray but within the grand marray zoning area um my concern is about the process I am familiar with public art and public art solicitations and normally this is done because the recipient institution or organization or entity desires to have public art or they designate a space for public art and put out a call to artists it can't doesn't have to be any artist it could be limited to local artists or Regional artists and they present proposals and then there's a decision a making process that could to the community this is what we did recently at the Johnson Heritage post for for the installation which is a permanent installation there we got several proposals we chose the one that we thought best fit with the environment in the community so my um my concern is is the um lack of competition and uh the lack of public ability to select what kind of art we want in our public spaces uh I I think it's and the precedent it sets as well for I have an idea for a piece of public art that I want to put in your space and you approved that one why don't you take mine so those are my concerns they're process concerns for as to each of you were the concerns that you've raised here raised also before the C I am not a member and have not participated in the C so so the question you've raised hasn't been addressed by them uh no uh I don't do they have special standing were they asked by you to bring forward some public art they were asked to review it to revend where request where did the request go originally to the Parks Board I mean I'm just trying to understand where I think Ruth can maybe answer where did this project come from I mean it it is my understanding of it is the artist has an had an idea and brought it to somebody for as I understand the idea is part of a much larger Regional project that would be all around Lake Superior do I remember right right and was that in response to a organized plan for public art around Lake superi no this is a different entry point so Ruth pisaro again the C was named the Arts advisory Council to the city in 2016 and so since then there's been a process that we've been developing regarding how do we look at public art proposals both as you're talking about if we were as a community to put out a call for artists that's one way but we do not have any funds to do that right now um our other is that on the city site there is an application form that artists can fill out which actually has happened a number of times um if you remember the Cory steelberg Caribou on on parkboard land that was another project that is similar in process to this I don't I don't so it she had again similarly State Arts board projects where the art colony comes in is that when you apply as an artist for a state Arts board project you need to have a sponsor in that Community it does not mean that we're giving approval it means that we are helping that artist to go through the process and so with Corey's project as well as with moab's art colony is the sponsoring organization and so what that means is that then there's a approval for the grant process at the state level and Moab has gone through that as well as the um Regional Arts Council that comes out of the metropolitan area so that's where the funding comes from if the city wants to retract and do inventory regarding all of its property and set out more parameters regarding what they want that's a whole other process so where we're at right now is responding to an artist who's a Minnesota artist who's gone through the state Grant making system in the appropriate way and then we are responding to how he can then go through the recommendation process um are there other this is part of a larger project are there other installations of this sort it's my understanding this is the would be the first of about 20 or so did am I remembering right and Moab could talk to that but he his overall vision is to circle the Great Lakes so we are the we're the first community that Moab is working with in order to do this poem of sublim proportions yeah I mean I'm happy to jump in any time and try to you know speak to some of this but I mean um it's also you know of course really informative for me to just to hear um you know folks responses and um you know concerns um and you know I guess just the the one about process um you know is perhaps not my place to speak but um you know I I can say that you know I as an artist and I'm sure as a lot of artists out there you know it's like wonderful to to see a community that has something like the C that um is interested in having artists approach um with ideas uh and you know that the park board and and that your Parks have art you know is really just vital and wonderful um the the works that are there now are you know those are seriously like you know those are meant to last you know for a long time um I I realize and know this is something that the other commenter you know was talking about with the five to 10 years and I I can touch on that briefly but um I what you know the the idea of a semi-permanent um piece of art um seemed to be you know a much more legitimate offering I think to just kind of come in into you um as a proposal you know I feel like if I was proposing a 25 year 50y year um you know public artwork that you you know do routinely see in public space um those do tend to have that like much bigger um commissioning process and competition um something that's kind of meant to be semi-permanent um feels to me you know from what my experience with um different kinds of public artworks and installation projects and um it it feels you know maybe more legitimately something to entertain um just kind of being put out on the table um you and and and so the the desire for the 5 to 10 years has to do with um you know giving this project a chance to pop up in numerous other Great Lakes communities that I'm currently approaching and you know looking for other other funding for um that you know if it was just like a two-year project um it wouldn't likely kind of have that kind of life that's not to say it's not possible and impactful on its own you know you could have you know every two years there's another piece and it's just that's the way it lives um but I mean logistically um if I can just you know point to the engineers report um you know he does I'm sorry I keep scrolling this okay um you know even within his risks he says while the proposed installation duration of 5 to 10 years is reasonable based on anticipated rates of wood Decay it must be understood that the proposed work is a temporary not permanent installation so you know I I feel that when the engineer is speaking to these components you know that really that's his purpose um and I'd like to think we can trust that resource that's not to say we couldn't get more data about that but um there are ways that we can build into a contract all kinds of checks you know um it could be a yearly check-in on the stability of the piece um when I spoke I think it was with Dave and the C at some point you know we I was even talking about the idea of you know it could be like a fiveyear minimum uh and then we really you know reconsider the contract um I I just don't want you to feel like I'm in any way railroading something in into your space and um it really is important to me just to see it happen in a way that would really work uh and and just kind of give the larger project possibility but I would absolutely you know we all I think would think it's necessary to have a contract that is mutually agreed upon and there can be a lot of pieces in that that address some of the concerns you know whether it's longevity um stability Mr Solomon when do you think that the uh final by April um that feels possible you know um and these components are just really I mean very much open to you know whatever whatever is acceptable um I I just I really am like interested in just making it work in a way that you know feels right and and not in any way taking advantage of anything you know difference to you whether it's April 1st or April 30th or somewhere in between I would say I would say the month of April feels like it's an important time because then we need to start really planning for the June installation you know and that will affect some of our planning and Logistics um and I'm just kind of thinking about it in terms of the timeline of if the uh city council meets twice a month you know maybe I'm not going before them until March you know maybe then there are other revisions to make um it seems like we're we're sort of headed in the direction where April feels likely um If This Were to go forward um but you know I'll take advice and and and follow anyone's lead if you combine the the state Grant and the regional Grant what by the way what what region is it that granted the money it's it's the is it the Metro what does MRA stand for rth do you know is it the Metropolitan Regional I mean I'm based in Minneapolis um so it must be the Metropolitan reg Regional Arts Council of okay and and What's the total amount of the grants that you uh received subject to the Dead thank you yes um it's a total of $115,000 which is very very small believe it or not you know to really yep one five and it's you know but I whatever I received I was willing to make it work you know and so far um the budget's playing out um it's you know the hardest part is of course the installation you know paying professionals to design it you know the engineer and then paying the lab the the mechanics you know the rental of the machines and um this would of course happen all by you know licensed professionals um and in in total consultation with Dave and anyone else who's a part of you know seeing um Park property worked with you know if that ends up being like a scenario where you know this gets approved but you all only allow Park Personnel to do this kind of work I mean you know whatever works I'm absolutely on board with and you know I'm um not trying to kind of you know skirt any of those Pro protocols do me I ask a question yeah go ahead do you have estimates for that work yes yeah and that's what are they roughly so it's looking like you know and this also depends on the installation like you know for I mean again I know it's not a lot of money but um it really is enough to do the work and you know I've got just I've got a small team um it's not really it's just that physical you know we're not fabricating anything like some sculptures require you know thousands of dollars of you know steel and and and working on the metal and paint and and you know this isn't that it's really meant to be using these natural elements in a way that can kind of create a spectacle and create could I ask one follow on question please are these natural elements or are these part of uh an installation of Boulders for the purpose of preventing beach erosion do we know that I mean is it is it an engineered solution to an erosion problem I I I don't believe there are any natural there are very few natural borders remaining along the harbor is that correct so what this image here shows I think you all can still see me everything here is exactly as it is except for the three highlighted Boulders no I mean Boulders they they they are not they they haven't they were brought in as part of a water and beach erosion project isn't that correct and do you know whether screwing around with them will change their effectiveness so what's happening here is that these are additions to existing um existing uh rip wrap that's on site the rip wrap isn't being pulled away it's being added onto uh so that the impact there isn't stripping away of uh land or or you know protection it's adding onto it in a way that would also secure the the the drift it in place and the not an expert in this but I more is not I was better and I pretty sure that if you're going to add boulders to this engineered solution you probably know better than I is this the sort of question properly addressed to this uh Northshore Management Group well yes yes it is yes it is okay so I assume that when we engage with them that will be one of the questions that we'll have be answered does that make sense to you folks as well make a note and Dave was it the I don't know I've never heard of the NorthShore land use but I mean the core of engineers that controls a lot of the harbor is they are they a part of that that RI wrap that was put that far back in the harbor or are they just on the outside wall I can't answer that it's city land they're in the process right now of looking at the East Bay and the Army Corps of Engineers is involved in that project I would assume the cor would be involved in any group that was dealing with the shoreline I would too har I believe that's correct um I have they should be addressed yeah go ahead and and they should they should be discuss this should be discussed with to make sure that they are aware of the of the project you know and what they would think of it I I have a question fire I ask um um mohab it's I'm I was wondering about funding for the other sites it it seems like the idea of this would best be if they could all be up at at the same time but I I can't imagine 20 sites um like if we're looking at even just a five-year timeline if if you have to secure funding for each location um and and plan all that I mean this is this sounds like a lifetime of work to me you know yeah I mean uh and and u a lifetime of work indeed you know so there's a there's a plan for that um and I've got a team here who I work with um who like there are a couple people who work in public art public installation um and public festivals who I've got um working with me to think about developing a you know funding plan for this but I can just kind of give you a really brief I mean I have two answers to that one is this sculpture you know isn't meant to only rely on the idea that this exists in 20 other locations it really should have its own satisfactory impact of you know surprise Wonder um you know curiosity um there's a graphic you know there's an info sign here that will definitely gesture to the larger idea to kind of spark people's imaginations about that but you know it really is meant to kind of also exist on its own and I think it is compelling on its own um to to to be playing with the natural elements of rock water land uh you know tree um the line of the the the line of the poem here that you know you see in in yellow um is really meant to be a standalone line of poetry I mean it it doesn't need to be part of a poem to make sense um I there are examples of you know we can think of poems maybe that have each line starts with the same exact words each line is a declarative statement so I really do believe that as a project this piece Alone um has its own you know power has its own Wonder but um I'm not trying to Shy Away really from also the the larger plan and my goal to um kind of escalate or you know kind of um what would be the word kind of like a yeah I guess escalate the project in in a bigger way is to first pop up on each of the five Great Lakes so um and then also have one of those five be on uh the Canada side of the Great Lakes region um and you know that kind of work is really strategic because it shows um funders you know foundations that you know this project really has a vision and the team lot of oh excuse me with a lot of different foundations excuse me come on um he's got a COR anyway yeah so so you know we can we can get into that you know I have a drink with you and talk all kinds of things but that's really the idea here about this is that there are ways to build it up in a way where um in five years this could be five different um pieces at the very least and even that will create a poem that is already starting to kind of fill out the region I think in a compelling way okay thank you I have a couple of questions Mr Solomon one is U the uh question was raised about whether or not the engineers data would would that underlies his conclusions would could be made available am I is there any problem with that no not at all and I mean you know this is a this is again a process question where I sort of was under the impression that what we needed here was an engineers's report to show the feasibility of this project going forward and then to also finally show you that you know that I've got the core you know that this thing wouldn't even exist if I didn't have the tree itself so you know we just need to try to move forward in a way that's now going to be able to use um the site like we need to go to the site and do some of those studies but you know he costs a lot of money you know and um I would just love approval you know to kind of move on to the next step and you know for sure Nick would never I mean he's he's a very trustworthy professional you know of all the Skeptics I mean he's the one you know that really he would never move forward without having an absolutely solid plan it's just the the process right now as far as I understand it requires a report from him you know attesting to the fact that this isn't a crazy idea that an engineer could absolutely adequately um you know present this project as you know as he States in in in uh in his report um you know even with the risks that he lists he has a very simple plan for you know how this would be physically installed in a safe way and he does this for a living um so I would be happy to move forward and then bring more of you know Nick's um planning to the table and and a much more concrete you know schematic um it's just where we are now requires actually deciding on the site so we can go study the site without kind of having done that work for nothing um and I and I have other you know I would like to offer also other backup uh ideas for sites if need be but you know right now this is what we're looking at um and you know I I kind of remember Dave you and I talking about whether that rip wrap is a a a legitimate site and I would love to follow up with you later if it does require other partners because I remember thinking that it was on city land um but that doesn't necessarily answer all our questions here but I thought it was a feasible an accessible space Oh is there a Time by when the underlying analysis of your of your engineer could be provided to these folks all four of them both the C and the others who are here yes yeah for sure I mean I can go back to him and um I'm sure we could do that fairly quickly you know maybe uh couple of weeks a week I mean I would like to say maybe end of March uh if we can agree on the site you know the the specific location um you know I don't know if he needs he didn't really raise this I don't know if he needs any kind of I don't know I guess I'm just thinking about snow you know is that a barrier to sort of studying that location I'd have to just check in with him about that um um but you know we are all kind of moving forward with that timeline of um you know April and May or uh January and March you know working kind of in the winter time kind of working a bit more on the words and the sculpture and then in April May thinking about the um the the actual like installation LS your comment for just a moment with regard to the data so that people can check it if they want to uh yes I I would like to emphasize that I am a science and technical writer that's what has been my profession and especially among High very high-profile projects such as the failure of the 35W bridge in Minneapolis with mayor Rybeck I know what engineering technical Reports look like so what I'm expecting is a technical report with Nick's PE signature and number his registration number as a professional engineer on it which is right here in the uh report at the very top there if you need that I did see that but I want you if you're going back for more information I'm wanting things you mentioned Uh Wood Decay that's the least of my worries I am worried about the dynamic environment of wind waves water as ice snow and I need him to analyze different scenarios for remodeling of the beach that might loosen the anchoring Point uh that's my concern and what his technical solution is in each of those scenarios say we have a high wind environment say we have you know 10 feet of snow some winter over five years all these things can happen sorry yeah I'm sorry you were breaking up I didn't mean to cut you off um that sounds absolutely doable to me and I'm sure he would be ready to work on that and if we're able to approve the site with his initial feasibility report here which does address some of those uh you know the core technical um you know components I would love to have us uh talk about that and I you know I just feel confident that he really knows his stuff you know and he can um answer that um it it occurs to me that even if we approve the site today the question of the final design and the contract won't be addressed until April if I understand it correct uh so that we're not we're not committed to something that if we engineer turns out it's not going to work then we don't have to proceed right I'm not saying that that's what's going to happen but I it appears to me that our approval today of a of a location is uh a very contingent approval at this point and that the real time will come when you guys have finished your design and the contract is being negoti iated and I and I was yeah and I guess maybe this is a process question you know it was my understanding that that the contract stuff happens with the city and that that was kind of the next place but that I was here before you um to talk about site and sort of show a bit more you know concrete detail and accountability for the object itself and the um Engineers uh initial report so but I'm you know again happy to to take advice on next steps from anyone um I would think that at our March meeting we should hear from whatever the issues that have been raised here today how you're going to be resolving them even if we approve with the the location today I see you nodding your head that's that's good news Steve sounds good Steve hold on for just a second uh I have one question I wish Margaret we're still here for but um the she raised the question of how public art is funded and and processes but typically public art doesn't come with its own money this is a deal where somebody's saying we'll put it up for you and you don't we're not we're not soliciting bids for a thing we're saying we've got money and we're willing to put something here that that process does that make a difference to you an oh yes it does I would like to see this put up for bid we're an artistic community no other artists here had a chance for this Premier spot well it sounds you do you think all these artists can generate grant money like this in the time frame we're talking about yeah I do actually I I'm a 501c3 I generate lots of Grants uh yes and I would help them yes I do I know a lot of the artists here and I know they're very capable and I'm not saying that Moab isn't I'm just saying I wish it had been a wider discussion this does not strike me as public art it strikes me as a private artist with a vision that he'd like to share with the public it's a little different uh do anybody do you guys want to respond to the concerns that they raised before we talk about what we're going to do yes um by all means I have a process question sure um this is before us it sounds like just to approve the site and then is it going to come back to us with more information or thenos did he come back at the meeting with whatever they've done or does it go to the city council and then that's where they get really in the weeds with this or do we I was assuming that our recommendation as to location would go to the city council and then then there would be a second trip where he will be dealing with them and not us uh I was thought he'd be dealing with us first and and then with them in March at the March meeting well that's my question that was what I was proposing as a way of dealing with the questions that have been raised here today it I don't mean to sound like I just want to pass the buck but it's going to end up in front of the city council and I just with this timeline and the pressure that he's under to to get decisions made it seems like if it's going to move forward it needs to go to go to the city council and sooner rather than later I have a comment on this uh I I don't think his deadline constraint is our problem I'm sympathetic it is as a person who has to work but you know you can go to funders and ask for Grant EXs I have done this myself I know that and they're very sympathetic but that doesn't really I'm not I'm not that's not my concern oh good okay it's more about how long do we as the part board need to go through this before it goes to the city council cuz they're going to really want to I have one other thought about March we ring two of our three of our five members one of whom's a city council member and I would think that their involvement in the March meeting would be useful no matter you in our discussion yeah do you have anything to say in response to all of what we've heard so far today Dave H I would confirm that this is a this is a multi-tiered dis uh agreements and decisions and ultimately it does lie with the city council I think that much is clear that our role here is strictly to determine the location the potential for the location that the CC has vetted this twice that they've recommended the approval of the location and the art and that they working it through the process of the park board now because it's Park Board land having that discussion about do we feel it's appropriate to site on our land if so we make a motion to support that if not we you know don't support it and so pending that approval or disapproval By The Park Board of the location sets us up for the next steps if tonight we feel like it's just not a good location and that's the conclusion then it doesn't go to the council if we feel it's a good location we make a motion to approve the recommendation of the location to city council yes it goes to council the attorney gets involved the all these agencies the NorthShore management board is consulted the I would think the Department of Natural Resources would have the most jurisdiction as they have this 200t to the water line you know versus the Army Core I don't feel the core would be much involved but the DNR would be involved the NorthShore management board all those agencies would be contacted and that' be part of the city council discussion so what I'm hearing you saying is is that if we were to approve the location today or even in March but let's just focus on today for a moment that it's basically out of our hands at that point becomes discussions between C the artist in the city okay and I will say this I reached out to both the members that aren't present tonight Craig schy and Bob nesam just as I knew this was going to be a big topic for discussion I said would you like to add anything Bob said he he believes it's a good thing whether or not it's too much out in the public I will defer to my more sensitive artistic colleagues so that's Bob's statement and again we can I feel comfortable I mean I I don't want to speak for these you know members but I did I did reach out and I did get some comment Craig on the other hand thinks it's out of place on the beach he doesn't think he's the only one who sees it this way he feels if the artist has private parties that are interested in locating it on private land that would be more appropr riate and that he is not in favor of it on public land well that adds an interesting curve to the discussion yes Miss brus uh if the rest of the others of you here are you comfortable voting on the location question and dumping it into the city council's lab uh and the C's lab uh and the artist Lab at this point I I'd be interested to know briefly if there are other locations that have been identified um I thought Mo I think you mentioned that there might be and I I don't want to get way into this but can you tell me tell us what briefly you know briefly I can just say um it does feel really important and meaningful to um have public art in a public space and it does feel meaningful and important to um you know have a Civic connection for a project that's tapping into you know language from 10% of the population that's being used you know in a poetic way there's just a lot of reasons to go public um and so you know in that I've really worked hard to to figure that out and um there are other places on the in in Boulder Park that could be worked with um there's a rip wrap pile all the way on the other side of the beach Beach that's across from java moose where um some Culvert work had happened um which has a whole bunch of rocks that are stacked up and um you know so I've identified those places and discussed those with some CC members and it came up with Dave and you know it just seemed like the simplest thing to do is really kind of back one location um and see if that'll fly so that we don't get into a a whole you know kind of confusion about what about here what about here what about here um but you know so that's right now why I'm coming to you with this one location and um if if that's not acceptable of course I'll you know come right back with some other ideas um I'm you know I'm open do you have any you got you were engaged with him on the location that was what were the thoughts that you had or offered in that part of the process you know I just feel like this is where a piece of Driftwood would wash so my only question is just more historical perspective from Dave and so I think the only other piece of art in there is that Wayne prot the Cano so was that before the c or what what por how did that go through to get it was before before process okay so there was no process before it so it was just how did but you must city council straight to the city council so not which piece are you talking about there's a little canoe in a sack it's like a bronze where is this canoe um it's right about here I see okay hav't noticed it before it's I'll have to go it's a little it's right here I can show you if you're looking up I show where it was yeah sorry but so I mean Dave so that did that go through the park board at all or was that is this as I recall it went it was right from city council like Wayne the was a sculpture you know metal worker has been instructor at North house had ties to the community through North house wanted to gift this piece to the community because it was like this camping on the edge of nature civilization and it he had a very specific spot he wanted it and he went right to city council and they approved it as a gift okay and we the only stipulations we gave was We own it we might move it later when we have plans for Boulder Park right which is something maybe we haven't touched on tonight because we're going to have plans for Boulder Park particularly the shoreline we've been granted $120,000 through the Great Lakes restoration initiative to do planning for shoreline erosion and Coastal resiliency and so it's very very likely that in less than 10 years this location's going to look very different and if I may just if I may real quick you know that's something that completely makes sense and I'd you know love to really keep tabs on that and if it's likely that that's going to happen in you know 8 years versus three years you know maybe that's just wonderful and I would just accept the odds because it's such a perfect spot if it's approved um yeah yeah so Dave getting back to the process then I mean so now that the CC is involved and the the city council approved that the CC be that's a little bit gray actually Matthew like they're not they're not officially or statuto recognized as the art Advisory Group for the city council that's sort of where we're at where the CC is at with a we just had a strategy Retreat and they're looking at roles and responsibilities and process MH and that the city council and particularly mayor Benson was was real proactive in sort ing public art policies from other cities um mayor Benson put together a a formatted public art policy for for the City of Grand morray that was recently adopted it makes mention of the C as an Advisory Group but it hasn't been turned into an ordinance yeah like the CC is is not an official board or commission for the council in I don't think that's totally true I think we have been named but that Retreat puts forth a little bit more of a sophisticated fleshing of that out okay and because we had never fleshed out the actual process um completely and at least to the city's satisfaction okay so it's before we were looked to as the group by the city and I think that's in writing somewhere in their notes um for sure um I think for sure um and um but Our intention is to flesh it out so our process is better obviously um we haven't had a lot of experience doing this and um and as Margaret suggested we do want to look at possible rfps and initiating public art projects it is not our intention to only review projects so we want this to be a big thing for um gr maray and possibly Cook County beyond that so um our mission is Mr Solomon one thing that does occur to me from a process standpoint and that is the one member of our board who is a member of the city council indicated he doesn't like the project so that argues for your submitting that engineering stuff to him as well as to these folks here uh so that they have a chance to see whether it helps their argument or not or whether or not you buried the question for them you know by fact so that's a suggestion that I have I wonder you know I wondered are you gonna say something go ahead I guess I just wondered I don't remember Dave if you reported that that was the person who just kind of was feeling like it shouldn't be on public land period that was Craig Shelty who is a city council member um let me ask this it's now 6:15 almost and does is there any member of the board that wishes to make a motion tonight well I okay I can wait for pardon um I'm still trying to wrap my head around exactly our processes in this I don't want to kick it down the road to the city council and not doing what our job is I'm not sure exactly if we're just looking for the CC and and we're just blessing it and then pushing it onwards to the city council to really do the due diligence or what is our role in this I mean what is the council again I think that we're kind of building this as we go but one suggestion to put out there is to say um pending approval approval pending based on these things we've you've already identified and so you're inventorying those areas that need to be addressed if that's your if that's where you want to go with it you're saying that we're pending looking with the NorthShore management or DNR or the next stage of the engineers report these things have to happen but we're passing it because it makes sense to go the next level I'm not sure I understood that Ruth could you summarize that one more time for real yeah yeah I I I thought I followed it and then I fell off the train I'm just saying that the C the cautions and concerns that came up tonight is it appropriate for the park board to say yes we're approving pending these things and those things then go on to the city council with Moab and that's at least you're identifying that there are concerns and these are what they are um and sending that to the city council I think our minutes will sufficiently identify the issues that have been raised here uh and that they if I understand what they was suggesting is that we deal ourselves out of it unless they ask us for further opinions after we talk about the location right so that clears it up for me so you know yes we're moving it on but with cautious and concern and there's a l more to look at and rather than bring those things back to us they can bring them straight to the city council for them to look at and the council if it chooses to ask for our input can do so but at this point we're not we're not volunteering we're available I I agree and I I feel like out of respect for the CC that the um that this process has been so um difficult to to set as far as um being an art advisory board to the city and I um so I I think that I would want to even though I have serious concerns about the project um I would want to move it forward and I think it will be challenging at the city council level um but I don't I don't I don't want to get in the way of of the timeline I think it should that sounds like a motion of soundation subject to whatever let's see what should the motion what should the motion say make a motion to um give approval of the site with concerns um of I think the cautions and concerns that were raised here you and mainly engineering can iest that the motion be simple we approve the recommended location and leave our minutes to be the vehicle by which whatever concerns that have been raised today are moved forward rather than be part of the motion will they be in the minutes okay if we name them I have Northshore management board approval DNR approval Army Corps approval further engineering studies yes safety and safy property safety and uh five to 10 years is a big span liability gift gift imp perpetuity and it's your job this is not public participation right now sorry uh can you repeat what you said the whole thing or would you like to amend them I whatever I no I was just the concerns including safety and liability um is what I ended up saying yeah okay do you want to second the motion as she's made it I can second that motion yes is there any further discussion or input from the staff or board if not uh all those in favor say I I I I there appears to be a a a majority or nity of the Quorum so the location is approved you folks can work out your future in fear and trembling thank you this has been a most interesting day thank you more to come I do think somebody wants to get in touch with that Northshore Management Group for several reasons that were mentioned during the discussion isn't isn't see on there yes she is she wasn't at the meeting thank you all for your Civic engagement absolutely thank you so now it is uh time to adjourn I think unless there's objection no because the last I think yeah the last thing on the has been moved to March has been moved to march with that we are adjourned thank you allk you and hi