All right, we are live. Okay, great. Well, uh we will call to order this meeting of the Grand Marray Planning Commission. Um we have our consent agenda before us
and we may have somebody more coming in for this. Um but uh anyway, so we have the agenda before us and we and have a motion to approve it. I will put a motion to approve the consent agenda.
Okay, I'll second. Motion second. Thank you. All those in favor? I I Well, we are now at the public hearing part. Would you uh care to be part of the public hearing? Are you?
Yeah. Excellent. I don't have anything to say. I just want to listen. Oh, okay. Well, then then we will uh Well, thank you. Then we will just proceed. Um Okay. I In fact, we're all familiar with the property. You've been by it. You've
had a chance to look at everything um that has to do with this property. And it's that seems pretty straightforward to to my eyes. I mean, I guess the question is, you know, do we need
another VRBO and down would be the question. Although, I don't know, that area does seem like it lends itself to that. Seems not unusual for the area and uh we have one that one that's being built. I mean, I
guess it's a couple blocks up too um from there. Um, that will be that, although there'll be other people living there full-time, too. So, I don't know. What do you guys think of it?
Um, the only I I just wanted just for clarification, I just wanted to make sure that we were just talking about the home that's there currently and not try to approve Yeah. an accessory dwelling down the road in this meeting. No, no, no, no, no. It's just a
conditional use. you know, he's just the buyer right now. He has not Okay, I just wanted to be Yeah. So, yeah, we are not Absolutely not. Very clear. Yeah. Two two different things. Yeah. And so, I have a question about that. So,
has this does this person currently own the property? He does not. He is a buyer. So, the buying it is conditional upon this. Well, he's not here to answer that question. I mean, we can make that assumption, but we don't know because he
doesn't he didn't say that anywhere. I because I was seeing the same thing and I didn't read it anywhere. He says my intention is but not that I won't buy it if not or cuz on the county website it still lists the previous or owner and it's not this person,
right? And that concerns me in the fact that we are preapproving something that hasn't happened yet. Partially based on the fact that I know people who tried to buy that house. Oh, okay.
Um for a permanent homesteaded residence. Mhm. And I don't know the details of why that didn't go through. Okay. But I would guess money is part of the issue, which we all know. If you have a vacation rental home, it's easier to
make your mortgage payment, which concerns me. I will admit that looking at this, okay, it probably maybe fits with the area, which raised
another question for me. And I'm wondering, yeah, as far as city council goes, where's our vacation rental ordinance? because I started looking at our mixeduse district, right? And I don't know how many are currently
and if it's mixed use with all these different things we want how many within the mixed use are presently. I don't know if that county does have that. It was my understanding that they were the ones
who were you like we said yes we would like for you to track it. So, I mean, I think that information is out there. I I couldn't say like how many are in the mixeduse area right now. I think that would be interesting to know if we really want it. If we're
saying it's mixed use, I kind of need to know, well, where are we at with the Are we right 20%, are we 50%, are we? I don't know. And I tried to look through on the county website and it got very
confusing to me. I don't know. Is that a vacation rental or is that a seasonal residence or is it a business? I don't know. Well, the city has not put any limits on on how many vacation rentals. I mean, we haven't said a percentage, but I but I get what your point is and and I think that's why, you know, we're supposed to
or ideally, you know, we're looking at like it says like what's happening in this neighborhood like there are other portions of mixed use, but we have to look at this part or at least that's what we're encouraged to do is look at where this house is. Does it make sense
for this to be a VRBO or not? Um, you know, I can see it both ways. That's why I'm a little like I want to know what you guys have to think because I could see it both ways. Like I I don't know that we need another vacation rental. You know, it was, you know, being rented
and it was being lived in and apparently somebody else wanted to buy it to live in it. So, you know, that yeah, makes me question whether we should say yes. And we don't have anybody to ask either. So, that makes it
a little harder. But just for your information, I'm the next door neighbor, right? To the south. Yeah. So between that house and the north house full school administratively. Got it.
Okay. Um the first issue that you raised was whether or not we do this preemptively or or not. If you don't own the property, does it make sense for us to do that, right? To issue conditional uses.
Um, we've done it before. Yeah. Quite a few times. So, there is a precedent that we we we do that and we do it unusual for in commercial setting to make things contingent on the ability to do things the way that
you want to do them. Right. Right. Like I can't buy it if I can't get this. So, I'm It doesn't pencil. It's like I don't need a home to live in. I need a business, right? Or whatever. So, um yeah, I just wonder about
maybe not maybe it's legally we can do that. I'm just wondering morally is that Yeah. Right. You mean like they should have it in hand before for some things? I just think Well, if you look at it broader, I mean, you could like where would you draw the
line on that? you know, if it's a big development or a big apartment building and that's zoned, you know, where you still need a conditional use to do that, right? Is somebody going to go out and buy a million-doll property if they can't use it for an apartment building? Probably not. So, if you're going to make that
exception Yeah. Yeah. You know, good. Yep. That's a good point. Yeah. But yeah, we we have done it. We do do it. It it's not out of place for him to come to us and ask for that. So, that's my feeling on it, too.
I certainly understand your concern. Yeah. Well, Anton, you've been unusually quiet. I mean I you know um to me it's more of the uh I guess I
don't knowing what that street is you know I assume that if there is a you know there's rules that have to be abided by as far as parking as far as that if that is a you know if we do pass this um
I just because I think of that that's always so busy in Yeah. Um and and we when we redefined the zone districts clarified and however many years ago
now, 12 years ago, 10 years ago did the kind of moratorum on nightly rentals, right? like the areas that we did say it was okay was in that initial block off of the
highway and in particular so this one kind of hits both right I mean we're in that and then and fifth where I mean because that's right the old Gunfllin trail right there's so many happening
so I mean so many like oh I mean right little cabin I mean there's all the different places that are happening it's a tough area So I yeah I mean my my take on it I guess is that I I it seems like it is the
right spot if somebody was going to do that right. It isn't like well I'm right across the street from where I'm allowed to do this like they are allowed to do this in this zone. So I don't know finding wise that's how we have it. We don't I don't think we get to have
we can personally have have like a um you know but whatever we don't we like we don't want to have change more housing into short-term rental right we can have that but I like that feeling
but I think as things are written and as what he's asking for is is he's doing exactly what we're asking it's in the right zone um in order to operate it that way, you have to ask for a conditional use permit. And I'm assuming all the rest of the stuff via the county and the licensing and that kind of stuff
has to happen. And I don't know how we can't, right? Again, we're not he's not asking for anything outside of what is a permitted use. It's not permitted because otherwise I mean if he was down
another house there isn't a one that would be in the district that you can just do it because it's okay to do it there. It might not Right. Yeah. because we're but it's the it's the next house up which according to our documents of
this district it has to come before us because we want to make sure that we have a buffer between the business district and the residential district which I do have a problem with when I
were looking at that map the last few days it doesn't quite make sense anymore how that got put in there, but it I assume it got put in because there were homes there. There were three homes that they didn't want to put into
the commercial district and now I'm just wondering is it does it make sense? I do that first block. Mhm. I get the rationale. Yeah. But then if you apply it there and
then you start applying it to the other areas in that district because we we can't just pick and choose which ones we want to follow it to. Mhm. So that's my dilemma here.
Yeah. Yeah. And I think the the rules do, you know, offer us an opportunity to say like, do we see this as the kind of development we want to see? And we did see this house go from a house to a rental and now to a short stay. And even
though we do have lots of things that are being built, it's still not necessarily the direction we want to go. But it is I mean, but I just keep coming back to the placement. Like it just feels like if you were going to have one in town, it just kind of feels like that's a natural
spot to have one. I mean, if you were going to come into town, you were going to stay somewhere. That makes it it's perfect. It's right there. It's by North House. Maybe you're taking a class or maybe you're going to the restaurant or whatever. And it just seems like Well, I could make the same rational for
perfect place to have a family grow up. Sure. I mean, exactly. Well, I go back to the mixeduse in general and just understanding like my understanding of that zone is like that is in its entirety is the buffer right between the downtown core district
highway 61 and the residential. And in that it was decided that's where we're going to put rentals. Somebody said, "Well, it's not that we're going to put it's we would consider because we were saying, okay, we're going to do our R1." So, like you said,
10 years ago, we said we're going to do or whatever it was, uh, we're going to do an R1. We're going to say no in the R1, right? Um, but obviously people have them, want them, that kind of thing. So, here's where you can, right? In some areas it was obvious like, well, sure, like 61,
sure, we said. But right, the mixed use was a little dodgier because there are parts of it that are I don't know there were more homes and so it was kind of like I don't know you know so we'll just leave that mixed use and we'll make sure people have to come to us and say we want to do this and so
now somebody comes here to us and says I want to do this and we have to decide like is this does this follow I mean it certainly if we look at the you know the findings you know much of it is falls right in line, you know, I
mean, it is part of part of it. The only thing you can maybe think about is, you know, is this the desirable development? You know, is this how we want this to go or not? Right? And one of the issues I've I've always had with with this conversation around
vacation rental is that we know that that socially they're not as desirable as long-term rentals or homes that we want because we we do have a housing pinch and we want housing stock, right? So, we know that, but we
also don't have the background or the backbone from the city code to say, "Okay, we are going to we don't we're going to limit this now. We're going to remove that from further future options, right?" Like, we don't Well, we didn't want to do that, right? We didn't want to do that. No. And so,
but how can you how can you deny, you know, a use when the city itself hasn't said, "No, we we actually don't want to do anything about them." Yeah. which I would say goes back to my point of wanting more information. How many
are there? I don't know. Yeah. How many homes are there? How many businesses are there? Because I honestly don't know. You're asking me to make a decision when I don't have all the facts because I do think if we if we really are saying it's mixed use, we want it to
be this buffer area of a mixture of these things, a mix, residential, lodging, professionals, small retail spaces. Mhm. Shouldn't I know? Shouldn't the city know how many are in that or what they're classified as?
I don't know. I don't know if they should or shouldn't, but I but I I don't think we define what what a mix is anyway or like it says right here is supposed to right. Is it 20%, 30%, 40%? Yeah, we haven't decided those percent. That's why we get pushed back to having
to decide on this particular block on this particular, you know, residence, right? Um, you know, is this the one? Does it make sense to to follow along? It's like does it, you know, I don't know. And we
have there are, you know, other rentals obviously right across the street, you know, and so it's not out of line to have it be a vacation rental. Yeah. I mean, I guess that's the part
that Right. If I look at I'm just like kind of going through what you were doing on the county site, right? Mhm. I mean, I don't know again zonewise, even like distance off the street, all
of those things. I mean, we did that one above the little motel, right? I mean, that wasn't that many years ago. It was I was on this. I don't, you know, like we made that change from a you know, we approved that. I understand what
that was a different gift stick though. No, that's still a mixed use. No, the uh that's the the corridor the old Gumpland trail cor what's it called? Resort commercial. That was a different district. So that was a variance. We didn't have
to approve the use then because that's just flat allowed in resort commercial. No, we had to approve it though in front of us. So that's what but I don't know if it was or variance maybe for maybe that's what it was. I don't remember that. Pat probably
does. Patrick probably does. Is that the one that didn't we have a we had a weird setback in the garage property line? Yeah, I think that's what all that right there was some some other issues that Yeah, I think that Yeah.
Yeah. Cuz there was a converted garage or was that a different one? Maybe that's what take the garage and convert the garage to a short stay. That's what it was. Yeah. Oh, the the one above. Yeah. Right. feather, but we we I think last year approved
another conditional use in the mixed use for short stay and that was right on second right right behind Coldwell. So just just for FYI conditional use
permits are you needed conditional use for RCN as well. It's not okay we did Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I it is hard to be able
to, you know, I mean, if I look at that and look at, you know, the only thing that makes me, again, not that he's asking to put a second residence or unit in the backyard, but he kind of was alluding to the fact that that's what they're maybe going to ask for.
Mhm. And I don't know how the way that that house is built, not quite lot line to lot line, but set back to set back like how like that's not really a vin air business on like how people access separate thing, but it would utility wise, right? Like I don't think like that would be a that
would be a different service potentially and uh off the back there. You mean you went that way? Anyway, I just I don't Do we do we get I didn't see any did I did we get comments from anybody? No, that's that's what I
was hoping we're like Sue and John didn't write did. No, I'm really surprised. Um, yeah. No, they didn't say anything. Nothing written. No calls. I am. Well, there we go.
That's not helpful. There there's our one comment. Yeah. Well, uh, yeah. It's Yeah. You guys want me to make a motion so you
guys can vote? So, well, I mean, anybody could make a make a motion at this point and we could, you know, see where the cards are. Yeah. Sorry, I'm just like flipping up through some like up the block. But you're saying that's different because that's the
Well, no. Those should all be part of that, right? Yeah. But just a little tiny simply look at the use and look at, you know, the items to be considered the findings, right? Right. That's that's if you just go back to that, right? Which is what I try to do.
You know, the preconceived ideas about vacation rentals, you know, like it it checks all of these boxes, right? Because it it we know that certainly where it is Right. What are we doing? Right. Right. So, yeah. And we can just go take down them. I mean, the use does conform to
the to to the lander comprehensive plan, right? Yes. It's compatible. Absolutely. We know that's true. Is it going to impede the normal and orderly development? Probably not. I mean, it's already, you know, that building's been there how long. So, that's not an issue. The location character of the proposed
use is considered to be consistent with the desirable pattern of development for the area. And that is the only one where I was thinking that's where I have a problem that I'm like is but but how is that not like how is that not I mean there's like you know there's the stuff right across the street I mean to me different district
across the street is a different district that it's a funny map. Can you bring up that Can you bring the map up just so we can have that on the screen? Let's go to the map. What's that there? It's it's a funny little thing that it goes well but to me I look at that more in
like the neighborhood. Right. Right. I I don't know. I mean, I would I would I mean, I agree. Very commercial. Yeah. That it's Yes. desirable pattern of development for the area. It doesn't say for the district, for the area. So, if we're looking at
that area, right, highway, we got commercial, we got residential with two little places on it, right? Yeah. Then we've got currently residential and then residential on that side. Yeah. But
I mean the other side is completely it's commercial and then commercial resort basically and then everything going up almost you know until the two places right below the courthouse on that side of it I think are full-time residents
but then there's more short terms across from then Feather Nest Feather Nest and another one and then it's the other assembly of little cottages of the I forget what that name of that place is. But MacArthur's MacArthur. Yeah. All that,
right? Oh, yeah. Because And that's why I'm like, well, where where else? Like, if we're not going to, you know, if it is something we allow, like, isn't it better to have it happen there,
right? And I also feel like I think Ben said this earlier, we did say like, "Hey, we're not going to allow them here, but here's where they're possible and here's where they're allowed." Yeah. And this is a possible area and here's 90% of the city where they're not or 80% right of the zone districts
where they're not allowed and it's a so it's a smaller That was our idea. Well, no, because I think they're allowed Oh, anyway, it doesn't matter. But yes, a big chunk we took out of circulation. I especially if you include the RC up
there, that's a huge part of it. But look at all the R1. Look at all the pink. So that I'd say I'm right even though that's not developed. Right. Right. Oh, you can see it over there, too. Yeah. Let's see. Can we Yeah, thank you. So, it's the Yeah, I'm sorry. Yeah, I
totally was blending those in together. So, it's I believe it's this one here. Yeah. Yep. No, no, it's the other side. There's Yeah, you're right. Let's see. Yep. So, yeah. Uh yeah.
Yeah. Uh it's a small area. Yeah. And I mean that is a lot of what's in there right now is
Just for for fun, go up to Go up a little bit. What's that? Oh, that's the school. It's like what's the big lime green stretch? Never mind. Yeah, school. Yeah, school county hospital too. But anyway, um so if we
look at it in other areas, right? So if we're talking within zone district and how it interacts, right? Mhm. So we have um so what would it be two blocks over? Right. So where Wisconsin spits back out
like Voyager going up to Voyager Hill there. Yep. Right. Empty lot. But then those both are in the MU. Right. And nightly rentals allowed across the street on the corner. Nightly rentals.
You go down First Street. Lonnie's got his little complex of little places, right? So, all shortterm, right? I don't I just don't. Yeah. Yeah. Hard to say that that's not a desirable pattern,
right? Yeah. And I think it is the context of, you know, here we go. we have, you know, went from a resident or full-time to rental to, right? But maybe that makes sense for this
area, this this residence. So, any conditions to consider uh on the use? I mean, it's got current off- streetet parking, I would imagine. Yeah, I couldn't I didn't uh see anything. I mean, if he's saying
what he wants to do, it seems like it's basically going to it. I mean, it has a good amount of space. Yeah. You know, for parking. Um I don't know if that driveway does though. That driveway is like that driveway horribly like how you keep a bumper on it, you know. I mean, it's just like
Well, you know, but I mean, so what I don't know like but there's enough space. Could you have Yeah. So we don't get into that like you have two people staying there, four people staying there, 14 people staying there, right? Yeah. Well, as part of as a conditional use, you can certainly say, you know, we we
want for two two vehicles off street, right? You can and it has it. I mean, we can make that a It does have those at at present. Yeah. Um yeah, we can make that a condition. There's no I'm sure I'm sure Justin would not bat an eye at that. That makes
sense. And don't seem unreasonable. And we also clarified that the conditional use doesn't follow the property, right? It stays with the owner, right? So if Justin and it will it that's the conditional use is
no longer what is the issue? I think we did clarify that did we that wait so I just want to make sure. Yeah. Do do you remember Patrick? I'm suddenly blanking. I'm not sure that that's inherent, but you can for sure say that. Okay.
Yeah. So, we can just say that this is another condition. Yeah. We could limit it. It's limited to the Muellers. Yep. On this and it won't pass. And if the next person wants to do it, then they're going to have to come and ask. And ask. Yep. We can definitely do that.
That's a conditional use. So if in the future something changed and you know for whatever reason the city decided that we wanted to limit and andor not accept new applications for make for short stays
then they go away through attrition or something like that. Yeah. Yeah. So is that your motion? Yes. I would like to make a motion to approve uh the conditional use permit uh for the Muellers with the condition of
two off- streetet parking spaces and that the conditional use applies only to the Muellers on this property. All right, there's our motion. Do we have a second? I'll second. All right, we have a motion and a second. Any more discussion? Seems like
we had plenty. Okay. Uh all those in favor? Hi. Hi. Hi. You don't have to. It's still You can You can You can stand your ground. So, what what is your what is your vote? I know. I really don't have a legal It's
a personal issue, I guess. I don't like it. Okay. Um, so what is your what is your I vote yes. Okay. There we go. All right. It is unanimous. will now go to the city council
for their approval. Maybe, possibly. Hopefully, maybe they'll have a stronger backbone. More conversation, I'm sure. I'm sure. Yeah, we'll definitely have more conversation there. Letting me sit in. Oh, well, thank you for coming.
Thanks for coming. Thanks everyone for all your thinking. Great. In case anyone's watching, that meeting will be Tuesday instead of Wednesday. Oh. Oh, right. That That's right. Council. Yeah. Yeah.
Got it. We have to We have to ask people for money for the sewer. We need a water treatment plant really bad.