All right, we're live. These are my favorite. >> Yeah. Yep, we're live. >> I guess we're live. Call this uh meeting of the planning commission and Grand Marray to order.
Um, we have a consent agenda and we have a work session planned. I would take a motion to approve the agenda. >> I move to approve the agenda. >> Thank you. >> A second. >> Move in a second. All those in favor? >> I
>> I passes and we are ready. So, shall we want to start you guys? Is that >> Yeah, over to you. Sounds good. Um,
we are the the goal tonight is to arrive at like a consensus from the planning commission about the approaches that you'd like to take to address the uh concern or issue. I don't know
what to call it yet. That's kind of what we're meeting about is we want to work on uh strategic planning for utilities expansion. >> Um, so I'll leave it like that and and um we're just going to go through uh
SWAT analysis uh strengths, weaknesses, opportunities, and threats. So that gives everyone an opportunity to share how they view that and and as individuals and then we'll congeal that into a group thought. Mhm.
>> Um after that, we're going to brainstorm the approaches that the planning commission would like to take um to address this and and then we'll prioritize them. So unless there's any
questions, I think we'll just jump right into the SWAT analysis. >> Okay, sounds good. >> Maybe just a couple more points of clarification. >> Thank you, Jeff, for sitting in with us. um he's just going to participate as a
staff person like myself and Patrick. We're going to provide input on the first two steps. We're not going to vote on the prioritization parts. And Jeff's uh the H's invited us to a joint
session, the planning commission, the city council, and the H's boards. And I think this is a great way for the planning commission to start set the table for that joint conversation and provide some feedback to the HR about here's what we're thinking about, here's the approaches we're interested in pursuing.
>> So you can kind of think about that as the next step of what's happening here, too. >> Great. >> Great. >> Cool. Well, I'm going to set a timer here and we'll go through and I think like
two minutes for each one. Uh, so give me a second here to find the timer. Analog and um so let's I was thinking let's start with threats and go backwards
being a weirdo. Um all right, I'm going to start the timer. 2 minutes. uh sticky notes. Just fill out as many as you can and then I'll go around and collect them and slide them up there >> for threats >> for threats to the community in terms of
utility expansion or utility >> like if we don't if we keep going without a plan. >> Yeah. >> Not not necessarily not that focus. >> Anything you think is a threat related to water and wastewater. >> All right, timer starting. And each threat on a different piece of
paper. >> Yeah. Time's up. You need more time than that or is that good? It's good. You want to talk about each of these individually or do them all first then talk about them? We'll do them all.
>> Okay. I'll stick these if you want to go start people on the next. Okay. All right. Now, let's go normal strengths and I'll reset the timer. Strength All right. Mr. Pink.
>> That's right. I got to be Mr. Pink. One color. Supposed to be blue. Doing great everybody. You're going to love seeing this. >> And no surprise there's already >> Atlantis. >> Oh, these are strengths.
>> Atlantis, not a goal. >> All right, let's start on weaknesses. How's a weakness different than a threat? >> A weakness is like >> was a little thinking the same thing. >> I I'd say a weakness is internal and a
threat is external. >> Okay. >> Okay. Time's up. >> 5 seconds. We didn't make it. >> Nothing. >> What? Which one is this? >> Weakness. >> Weaknesses.
>> Oh, we don't have weaknesses. Come on. >> She's ready to model. You guys should get together, >> right? I know. Can't help it. >> Seems so sunshiny. I'm just
>> keep bottled up >> opportunities. And I'd say those are strengths and opportunities are kind of the same internal external >> bottling it up >> just to bring it up. opportunities.
>> Opportunities. This is where I falter. >> This I don't. Yeah. I mean, I'm having a hard time like just kind of understanding. >> Can I move some of my strengths doing >> Oh, yeah. >> Or can I just duplicate them? >> You can duplicate them to >> They're already like weaknesses and
threats are a lot of similar ideas. >> Opportunities for that. >> Yeah, there are. >> Yeah. I mean, you want me to tell you I want to write?
>> You want to write for some of mine? >> You have to find someone. >> Yeah, this is a problem here. I'm stepping on cords. I got a whole minute. I can come up with some other tunes. Yeah. Come gather around.
Oh, wait. I just thought Patrick had to read my writing. >> All of us have to read my writing. >> I can read your writing. >> You don't have to read them up front if you don't want to. Are you just going to read them out loud
to us or you can take a look? Um, I will also read a little bit. >> Yeah. Heck yeah. You want to start on strengths, Patrick? >> Sure. So willing board members of the planning and zoning commission
hands-on community willing city council public sector ownership at existing stubs. You got that? >> Y uh competitive advantage for new
funding. Good financial rating, existing plots, workforce, need for housing, HRA, infrastructure, grants and aid, environmental safety, desirable community to build in, plenty of
capacity at treatment in and out. Market interest, demand, local developers, increased housing supply, well-loved community in state, local economy is strong. Increased tax capacity if utilities are
available easier. Increased tax capacity, >> more people to support local businesses, hospital, school, potential for newer neighborhoods, new housing builds possible. >> Some of those strengths sound a little like opportunities, right? And they'll
sound like the opportunities you wrote, too. Some of them are things that we have as our characteristics. Some of them sound more like if we are successful, it will create this good outcome. But they're all great. Weaknesses, lack of resources,
more staff needed, more staff time needed devoted to maintenance, planning needs, more development and vision, no plan for how to phase development expansion. No clear guidance for other developers.
>> Bedrock. Yeah. Cost to build and maintain are on the rise. Existing fixed first. Take care of what we have or include in expansion.
Cost construction and ongoing resistance from community current homeowners. second home ratio and tax base opportunities. Are we compatible to grant funders? Possible outside funding,
more programs for money than ever before. We have city and county partners willing to plan for future growth. Willing planning zone board, general support from state reps, opportunity to draft a
wellthoughtout plan for development, IT RB, state grants, new apartments and HR director exclamation point grants group development septic and well potential increase in tax capacity.
Local investor interest. Make it easier, less costly to build. Safer water sewer issues. Creating a plan. Invites funding from state and feds. Public private interest partnerships.
Make it easier, less costly to build. Oh, expanded tax base. More housing funding associated with better use of land based on current city code threats. Rising taxing taxes and costs,
overloaded capacity, poor performing water and wastewater. Scarcity of resources continues as inflation grows, market volatility, rising cost, system capacity, state
federal funding goes away, something catastrophic happens to our economy here. Example, massive forest fire, Northshore, health closes. Capacity to treat
waste water, potable water, underutilized capacity, new road construction issues, regulatory changes and hurdles, complex project planning, second home buyers, community concern about development, cost of expansion, capability to maintain any new
infrastructure, less ideal housing, residents with wells and septic not being happy with expansion, prohibitive cost of installation, ongoing maintenance, less housing all together
pushing the expansion and no development occurs. Rising cost of maintenance, expansion of utilities where we don't want it and >> where it's not helpful. >> Where it's not helpful. So that
gives us an overall idea of where everyone's coming from. And I think it'll be a great way to like create a a vision statement for this plan in terms of what are we trying to achieve and
why. Um so now we'll move into the second step strategy brainstorming. So now I think we're going to move onto the web. Okay, >> that's in front of you. And we can just
practice here. If you click and drag like Oops, I just accidentally grabbed one from Michael. But let's have you click and drag down from your list
to create a note. And it may work best on the if you use your mouse. So once you've got your note down there, you can click on it and write as much as you want. >> Is that working for everybody?
>> Yeah. >> So emojis >> and then press H again. >> We are ready to go. >> Everybody just do a test run of typing something there.
Cool. Okay. So, now I think I'll take four minutes and what we want to do is come up with what are the approaches. We're just going to brainstorm every wacky idea, no matter
how crazy it is. Just write down what are things we could do to address the concerns that we have. Anything. And I want it to be as wacky as you can think of. >> So, uh, >> tackling weaknesses or threats or going
to do with that up there. >> These are great for inspiration. So, we think what you wanted to talk about was how do we do water and sewer infrastructure expansion? >> Yeah. >> And so, that's probably the question that might be what you focus on, but use
the opportunities and strengths to think about the approach you might take. use the threats or weaknesses to think about issues you might try to deal with or problems you might want to tackle. And also, I'm sure you have plenty of thoughts that you've been developing in the years you've been here, and this is
a chance to stick them on the board and see where they grade out. >> And and what we're doing here is brainstorming what are the tools or approaches or strategies that the board is going to use
in this plan. Do you need a couple examples? >> Yeah. >> Okay. Build more pipes. Something as simple as that, right? That's a strategy. We can build more pipes. Uh create a master plan for the
neighborhood between 10th and 11th Avenue and 4th and Fifth Street. You can be as specific as that. uh contact a certain developer about a certain project and have, you know, more conversations about moving forward or do
an RFP for a developer to build this kind of housing or forget about building altogether. Talk to some of the other approaches. Talk to the community about what they want. Work with the H to do a to help them get their housing study done.
I know what you've been thinking about is more master planning and then how do we do some of those things that are on your plan, but I know some of you have also had some other more creative uh ideas that maybe this is a good chance to put out there and let people know
about. So to put it in context, anything that you want to have happen, this is the time to say it because the next step will be prioritizing what themes we've come up with from from this So, we're going to try to take the results of this and group these stickies
into things you'll be able to vote on as approaches that you want to prioritize. >> Yeah. >> So, I'll uh and my my suggestion is just kind of stack them below your name
as you're pulling off new stickies. Looks Everybody's doing it well. But if you're having any trouble, I can come help Spell egg. We're halfway there. All right, finish up those last ones. Cool.
Anyone still working on theirs? Okay. So now, Mike, I think if we use the black ones, okay, to we can group them up and then have we'll have the black ones kind of represent the theme
in that area. All right, voting. So, just stuff away. >> Yeah. Sorry, I'm making room for maps cuz I saw a bunch of maps. >> Give me in like a minute here and you can talk amongst yourselves.
>> What are they trying to do? Yeah, we're taking your ideas and grouping them where they're kind of the same thing. We're going to put a a label on them so that we don't vote on 50 things that there's five or six ideas instead. >> Plus, then you can see if somebody had a similar idea but slightly different.
>> Sure. >> Yeah. >> So, here's funding. Do you have a funding spot, Mike? >> No. >> Yeah, I'm starting a funding spot in the lower right. >> Where you working though? floor over
>> mostly we're trying to finish one up on which is really close countertops that >> uh and then down on we got one on caribou that's was just finished getting roughed in
this boost rooms in town is still rolling actually making that's the finally got people that are showing Um, so that's good. They do sheetrock takeoff today. So hopefully next week she rock starts in there and then
we'll move carpenters outside and do siding windows so Jeff doesn't have to stare at the flag any longer. The whole town doesn't have to. >> It's amazing how many people will go to >> that is just
if they've never seen building be constructed before. probably not so slowly, but >> but everybody that usually comes there just is there temporarily, right? I mean, it's not usually the locals, it's
usually visitors. >> They just stare. >> It's a pretty I mean, that view is like >> that lot's crazy. I mean, it sucks, >> but tight every aspect of it. There's like no room for anything.
>> You can't like do deliveries. You can't have equipment there. You can't have It sucks. Yeah, that was a mistake, but whatever. We'll get through it. Um, and then yeah, we got one foundation just got poured up on Coyote Ridge.
Another foundation's they're working on that down on the ski hill road and probably more, but that's all I remember. So, plenty. >> Well, it's too much.
It's too much. They're all kind of clustered like the loots and stuff is all >> This one goes over here. >> Well, the one I car a little bit up at the outskirts, but they're within 15, 10, 15 minute drive. You can get to all of them, which is kind of nice.
>> Check on stuff and meet people, doing whatever, make sure stuff's going fine. >> And then we've got another foundation waiting on seven. that's sitting there. I just open that one up because we're supposed to be getting panels for that
>> anytime. >> So, here's what I got. >> I need to get my forklift up. >> Yep. >> And this is more >> panels off the truck. I refuse to I could get the forklift down, unload the panels, but then I got to bring the forklift back up until the wood stove
gets set because you can't get up on a metal roof. >> This middle chunk here is >> And I don't want to spend two grand to shut it. sure what I'd call it yet. >> Machine back and forth kind of like >> I've already got four telehammers right
now. >> Plans or something? I know why. It's cuz I like >> give Ziggler rental like $12,000 a month. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. But if you owned it.
>> So these two I have two plus I have a I own. community conversation category like we need to check in and make sure tools we're using are still >> the right ones >> and then yeah couple excavators couple one I only want >> I'm not sure if those next two to the
right don't fall in that category >> that place is such a nightmare they do >> I haven't stuck there until we're done cuz right >> there's you know our 3 in of snow 12 in of snow up there >> you spend you spend just as much time moving snow as you do building may right
now. You know, I went out Monday morning. I was like, I mean, it's kind of it's nice to see the snow, >> right? >> Because it's been so brown and you always see an issue, but >> lower rate is clearly fun, right? >> Yeah. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. Same situation. >> But, you know, by 5:00 a.m. and about 6:00, right after I piled up a bunch, right? way to kind of make the offer on the offer. >> Well, we've got a lot >> categorized here.
>> Yeah. >> Just like out hydraulic fluid all over my >> like there's got to be a partners one I think >> spring. Anyway, so then we like went to Napa and it's like, okay, well, I got an hour and a half till they open. I guess we'll do
some emails in the parking lot until Jory gets there and shovels and gets everything and then fix that. And so instead of being done and all the jobs opened up except for Lon by like 8:30, which was my plan, it was like 2:00 in the afternoon. It's just like, god dang it.
>> What happened to the hose? >> Just I mean it's I don't know. I never replace those. Just it's a weird spot where like I think where the that big spring on the >> Yeah. mid pitch. >> It It like full on blew up. I mean, it was just like all over my hood and all
over the windshield and like >> it's nasty. >> Yeah. So, >> yeah, even a small hydraulic >> rules. Big problem. >> Policy rules. >> Yeah. >> I don't have hydraulic issues until like a friend of mine borrows my equipment, >> right? I borrowed so much stuff this
summer and I just like I standards >> templates try to be nice and it's just like no >> this equipment this trailer worked just fine when I gave it to you and now it's like >> you buy like crank >> or you're hauling around a floor jack to
like get the thing off and on to rebuild it. >> We've got to rules allow this. How do we get this done? This seems like its own idea. >> Yeah. >> Can people watch this live by the way? our crazy little work that we're doing. >> Oh yeah. Yeah. >> Is it making sense to anybody? >> Sure.
>> So now I'm going to >> So a lot of stuff >> Well, let's decide whether people like these categories. >> Okay. >> See what's going on here. >> Low hanging fruit. I don't know what that one either. Anton, what's low hanging fruit?
Um, just I mean it kind of goes along with the like figuring out where everything's sitting right now. Like where where are the ends? >> Okay. Call that development planning then. >> Not just where they're at, but like it's one thing >> where's the easiest place to develop or build or
>> It's one thing if there's a stub and it's like well that's the city limits. >> Yeah. >> Because it doesn't do any good to go anywhere from there. You can't. Right. But >> yeah. Okay. >> Okay. Let's start with the upper left hand. We grouped six of these tags into
mapping and I'm trying to put it up on the big screen. So if you don't want to however we want to do it but >> yeah. >> Okay. So some of these are clearly mapping. Um I think the better defining the growth
boundaries and areas of priority is kind of stuck in between mapping and development planning. But the product here is a map. Um doesn't matter which of those that it fits in. I think people are going to vote for both at some point. And then capital improvement plan
is again we're kind of stuck between a map and a plan here. the capital improvement plan is when we look at it, it's going to look like a map if we do it well. >> Um when we're talking about water and wastewater here. So >> development planning across the right
uh this is more about what we want to focus on at a plan commission level is creating plans. Where do we want things? Where does it make sense for things to go? How do we like visually comm communicate with folks what we want? Um,
and how do we think about it strategically? So, we're talking about, you know, thinking strategically about the the space and then putting plans together with that >> community input.
>> Community input. the the left and the right columns we stuck together, but I think that they have some differences because this the right columns seems like a real clear idea, a more specific idea about community input, which is
let's talk to the recent people who've done development in the city and try to figure out like let's get some feedback on what worked and what didn't. And but I think it's more than just talking to them. We also want to ask oursel that
question. What do we like about the outcomes and what do we don't? And then perhaps a little more difficult um we better start asking ourselves the question of do the community like what's happening and want to see this because I
mean we've seen some mixed results on that and then even just the council like what is happening. I think that's an important question too because I think we've seen some mixed feedback on that. So, community input
rules maybe next. >> Yeah, rules. I mean, we can do things with our own regulations to try and change what's going on in the housing world. And here's a few ideas that people came up with that I think are just let's focus
on our own regulations and maybe areas of our regulations we haven't done a lot of work on because we've done a lot of work on zoning but maybe there's some other pieces of it that we could still do.
Okay. Uh standards and templates. We want um to be able to create models or thing that show people how to do what we want them to do so that it's easier for them to do it. And here's three
different takes on that concept. But I think they could all kind of become one concept if we decide that's the approach that we want to do is how to develop in Grand Marray. There's a lot of background work I think that we need to do to be able to be good at that in terms of really asking oursel that
question again. What do we want and do we have the maps and everything else? But this is maybe an end goal that you'd want to reach for too. >> Then let's go over to homestead. >> This is a oneoff. Um who's green? >> That would be me. I meant the home
style. You mean the homestead is what I'm Yeah. >> Yeah. >> That community living type. >> Okay. Then let's stick that one over in partnerships because it goes right with your other idea which is find a developer for an assisted living
facility. >> What we're trying to do is find somebody to help us build things that we want. Now, this is a kind of a corlary to maybe the development planning where or the even the community import where we
better be sure we know what we want before we go out and start finding partners to do it. But we have some things that are on the list that I think we're pretty confident in like assisted living. But we've got some local partners that you identify as one of our strengths and
opportunities that we've got local willing motivated partners. So, let's talk to them. >> Okay. And then uh we'll go over to community input. That is not what I wanted. Stop that.
Uh we talked about community input. Oh, >> funding sources. >> Yeah, >> plenty of stickies here. Obviously, we know one of the big reasons that this isn't just happening all the time is because it's fabulously expensive to build new water and sewer
infrastructure. So, we can spend our time trying to build partnerships with people that are here locally, but we can also spend our time trying to build partnerships with funding sources and funding opportunities. Um,
plenty of great ideas here. I think that's everything right that we've gone through. So >> the WWTP project is that you
>> What's WWTP? >> Wishwater treatment plant. >> Oh, okay. >> Bear with me here. I'm just getting us ready to do our prioritization voting.
Okay. So, we've got seven options. I'm thinking we do three. >> Three votes. >> Yeah. >> So, I'm going to create a voting tool here real quick. Give me a second.
So, none of these ideas have to disappear. That's not the reason for the prioritization, but we can't do it all at once. One of the weaknesses we identified is a lack of resources, including a lack of our own time. >> And so it's helpful to do this
prioritization exercise so we know which ones to start with or which ones to focus on. So when you're thinking about that, uh what do you want to do first is the is the question or what do you think would be the most impactful right now? And if you want to vote, you can vote as
many of your votes for any of these as you want. So if you want to put all three of them in one category, you sure can. Uh if you want to put two in one or or one individual in each of three. >> So we're picking >> Can I ask one question? Well, where are we? Like I know mapping is obviously
important, right? But where where are we at? That work has started, >> right? >> Yeah. But um I would say use your own awareness of where we're at as a guide for what you want to see happen. So, I think I probably know a lot more about
where we're at than any of you, >> which means there's still quite a bit of work to do. >> So, we're voting on the top three of the black. >> You get three votes to vote for any of these black squares to say what I want to have happen. And if you want to put
them all in one, you can. >> And so, >> so we're just going to look and see how that shakes up. >> We have six black squares. Is that >> seven? I can't see screen. Oh, let me zoom out at the bottom. >> That's where I need to >> right there. There you go. >> You can use the mouse wheel, too, to zoom in and out.
>> That would be easier for me. >> So, and just for a little context, we're doing step three right now. So, I wanted to do a blind vote just to see where everyone's at individually. After we've done that and discussed it, I'm going to move back over to paper and give you
three stickers where now we've discussed it, we know where everyone's at, and we're going to vote where everyone can see what's happening. after you've had the discussion about what your priorities are and why. And then that'll kind of be like the final the final real vote.
>> And this vote is just for the members. >> Yep. Right. >> I'll set this one up. >> I'm going to do three votes and I'll give you two minutes. >> Oh, just a sec. Once I click start, it
should ask you to join the voting. >> Okay. >> And then you'll just click up. Click on them. >> Click a plus next to the items that you want to vote for. >> I did not. >> I just see Ben moving his mouse around. That's all I got.
>> You didn't get invited. >> No, just Michael. >> Did you get invited? >> Oh, let me >> No. >> Okay. >> Michael's going to handle this one. So, >> you got a good You got a good dog. We'll see you next month.
>> I trust you. >> Why did that happen? voting for three, but there's no order to the three. >> It's not priority. >> And don't you don't have to vote for three. Vote for one or two, >> but you only get three votes. Use them how you want.
>> But you could vote for the same one three times. >> You could. Yeah. Okay. Well, I don't know why that's happening, so I'm just gonna >> We're going analog. >> Yeah. Okay. So, why don't you just write
down your votes, your three votes, and hand them to me on stickies? >> Yeah. Okay, that's great. >> So, just one sticky per >> Yeah. >> Or, you know, you can write it all on one sticky. >> Yeah. >> That was going to be the most fun part
of the day, right? Yeah. >> There had to be something, >> right? >> We gonna do a combined tally then. >> Yeah. Is anyone do we have everybody? >> I can't wait. I can't decide. >> Oh, no problem. Take it. This
>> is hard for me to narrow down. >> It's supposed to be hard. >> And you could put you could write like a if you want to put two votes, just write something with two or look here. >> I just have time to
partnership. Just let the problem Did >> you go to Highway 61 stuff? >> Yeah. >> Did you show up to the last one or did you go to a bunch of them? >> I went to quite a few of them.
>> Yeah, that's great. >> Yeah. And I think I talked to a couple times about it. Yeah, >> that's always the challenge you get when they do that is you'd have the people that pretty much religiously show up for
all the the city like child care and like then like just getting people to show up. >> Then you always have the people show up for the last one when it's like things we are doing,
>> right? Wait a minute. You never >> All right. First countries, >> everything got at least one vote. >> Funding got three votes. That's the top getter.
Um, mapping, planning, and uh, standards and templates each got two votes. Rules, partnerships, and community input each got one vote. >> So,
What do you want to talk about? >> I don't remember the order that I put mine in, but like as I was looking at those, even though like when we're looking at the colorful stickies when we wrote, when I look at the black stickies, to me, I see
development planning that part of it. I almost see that like already taking the mapping in, right? like we have a certain amount of it and like to me that's like I that this is the way my brain worked in looking at those it's like it's one thing to have
the mapping but if we don't if we just have the mapping we still have to do development planning right so my thing is it's like well if we do development planning we're going to have to do mapping so we can kind of sneak that one in there >> as oh you get a freebie >> freebie
>> it's not cheating today >> and then >> and wait and wait there's more Wait, there's more partnerships also because partnerships, you know, Jeff and H, they know exactly where the funding sources are or a real
good idea on where those are. So I, which it seems like two of my votes got one vote. That's fine. But that's because that's how my brain put that was the partnerships. Okay. Well, if we identify who our partners are going to be in this, private and public,
the public sector in particular are going to understand where the funding sources are going to come from. So, that's another twofer. >> So, I actually got five votes. And then I also for community input, but nobody else did. >> Yeah. just annoying kind of how some of this
plays out. You know, when you when you do one thing, you are you are it's not like you're ignoring all the other stuff, >> right? And so you can't we can't do any of this stuff without community involvement, >> right? >> Right. Uh it's just it's sort of baked
into the process. Mhm. >> Um, same thing I think with partnerships. You know, money is obviously the thing everybody talks about and so that's why I put I think it was number one for me. >> Start having that conversation because
you know you can dream all you want and map it all out and have a clear vision for what you want and if you don't have the money to do the project then >> but if you don't have the if you don't have a development plan or the m And then you don't know what you need for.
>> Well, the fun thing is a natural natural priority because we realize it's probably our biggest hurdle. >> Is it what you want to spend your time on as a planning commission? >> Is it what you're best suited for? Is it what you can add the most value with? And I think that's kind of the point you
were making is maybe there's other partners that are going to do a better job of that and it's not what we want to spend our time on. So, yes, it's absolutely a priority, but it's not what we're going to spend our time on. >> Oh, I see. Yeah. >> And I really like the idea of the mapping because I feel like that we're
showing people, we're telling people like here's where we'd like to see development happen. This is what we would like to see. And I feel like that's that kind of guidance is really >> helpful for people when they come here
and they want to know like build this house. So what are those and I guess those two rules too, but really just think about the mapping so we can get people like yeah here's where we'd like you to be and if you go in this area these are the kinds of supports
that we're able to help you. And I put well I don't did I write I was having a hard time rules standards and templates that we kind of need if we're going to ask developers to come in because we want these things.
>> Well are we sure we have the best rules in place? I mean we had a project that failed because we didn't have the right kind of rules and that was a um big kind of frustration with that developer for sure. And I know a couple other ones
that >> Sure. >> So, are we sure that we have the the best overall plan to help developers do the projects that we want to see? And do we need work on our zoning to make sure that
>> a five acre lot doesn't go to one house because we need a septic? >> Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Yep. And that's those are things to your point obviously we can do. Yeah, we can
do those rules. That is part of what we do as a planning commission and council. Probably have a lot more experience in that realm too of talking about it from a zoning
perspective than a planning perspective. And so that's a good thing because that means, you know, you can leverage your experience to actually get right to the heart of it. >> Whereas with the planning side of it,
it's a little more nebulous. It and it doesn't guarantee outcomes and it's not there's not going to be agreement. You know, there there's going to be it's complicated and and tricky and yet that's the name of the board, too. the
planning commission. And I think that's part of why >> you've been talking to us and each other about this concept is because you're feeling a lack of it, like you want to do a little more of it. >> Yeah.
>> You want to change these categories up before you vote again? You want to call them something different? What are we combining these? >> Does it make sense to combine rules, standards, and templates >> and development planning?
>> Yeah, I think so. >> No. >> Yeah, but then you only get one vote. Yeah. You know, you're not when you vote on this, it's not like the results of that vote create a strategic plan that you then start doing. >> Yeah.
>> There's a lot more work to go. This is still just trying to give feedback to us >> that we can put these ideas together in some kind of a here's a step-by-step idea of how you can do this and then bring that back for more conversation. So, it's not the end. This is just the beginning of this conversation. And I
think it's just if there's some frustration about that doesn't quite capture my idea and I want to vote for something a little bit different. >> What about the funding with the development plan? You were saying something about that too, right? >> I was saying funding sources and
partnerships. That's where those are the two eyes squash together. >> Oh, these two >> because again like those partnerships >> Uhhuh. >> private and public in theor I mean again the way my brain worked that it was
Jeff could probably rattle off seven different things that acronyms of different agencies and different things that exist out there that would be potential funding sources. >> Yeah. >> And we already know though we're going to be also working on partnerships,
right? Because one of our next steps by our voting, but it's like we got to start with something. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Like that. I hope you vote for partnerships because if you don't, it's going to feel weird to go to a joint meeting with the HR. Yeah. >> When because that really is going to be
our strategy to move forward on this. >> I think I think it's >> I don't know what there was housing study in like what 2014 or something that the EDA did. >> Maybe it was 2014. >> There's more recent work than that.
>> But I I think I I that one I was like that one to me like I picture so many of the respon like that was like you know you had people of all demographics in and answered. >> Yeah. Yeah. And and that of course was countywide. >> And my thing that I always think about
that was the number of respondents of like, >> oh, you know, they're here because they want like they want room to breathe and like stretch out. Yes. >> And like which is great in the county, but like in the city like that's not to
me is not really what that >> the city's zoned for. Right. Right. >> And so do we have uh like the more recent then housing study. Is that does that
define like respondents like people that live in the city and what they you know can can we get input from residents of the city or people that want to be residents of the city for what they want to see? >> Yeah. how they want to see development happen just in the city proper
>> that you can um my cautionary tale is the outcome of that study if you just boil it down to what do people want was they want a 900 foot house on 5 to 10 acres within 15
minutes of town for $150,000 >> that's great >> right >> even in 2014 that was an absolute pipe dream Mhm. >> was ridiculous. It was impossible. It's still helpful information >> to think about what people's mindset is, but it's not helpful information to come
up with the strategy. >> Well, that that's I think my that's Yeah, that's kind of I guess where I'm what I'm saying is like how then like maybe it is a 900 foot house, but it's on a 5,000 foot lot and 5 to 10 acres
and it's walkable. >> Do people want that? >> What is that? If you ask the people who already own property in the city, >> they would say no. >> It's a different answer than if you ask the people that don't, >> right? >> And and that's part of this difficult part of the conversation is who are we
serving? I mean, at our core, it's our residents, but I think this conversation is also about potential residents, >> right? Uh, one of the things about partnerships and a crossover with the planning side of it is the county and
their groups talked about do we need a a countywide comprehensive housing strategy plan. And then you can start to think about the city's role in that as different than the rural areas role. And then it's not about just the city residents. It's really the whole county
talking about where is it? I mean, we have opportunities in the city with our wastewater plant that don't exist anywhere else in the county. You can't do density anywhere but here. >> So, we have to be the ones to do that. Even if our residents aren't clamoring for more density, we're the only place
that can do it. So, if it's a countywide perspective and that's our partnership, then maybe that helps that conversation go in a different direction. And to be fair, too, I mean, maybe we won't capture what the people who want to move here are interested in doing because
it's hard to identify where they're even at. I mean, you can go down to Iowa and ask, I suppose, do. But you do have developers and they have marketability. They want to market something, right? So, they're going to build something that they think people will buy. And in
that realm, at least you get an idea for what people are willing to buy or what will people are willing to look at. >> Yeah. Those two perspectives came in real stark conflict in some of our last development conversations too. the do we
want to talk about the perspective of what do we want to see developed and that crept over into what do we think people are willing to buy and it's like well we're not we're not people to decide that right the market hand has that question handled we don't have to go there
>> so we can just stick with the what do we want to see >> developed uh without thinking about it but it's hard to it just kind of goes back and forth real easy >> to go back to the Is there maybe another vote. >> Yeah. >> Okay. I would just say from the from the
funding standpoint, obviously that's the engine that gets us to where we need to go, right? But from from my perspective at least as HR director, there's only so many avenues for money and um we'll try
any avenue that works for it. But I think the biggest thing is it's really hard to apply for funding when you don't show them the plan first. So that's the key I would suggest is >> the the horse is here and the cart is here. You want to make sure that the cart is not in front of that horse.
>> Yeah, I like that. >> I think it's also we think about funding as grants, but that's a tiny piece of the I mean what who's paying for this? It's not it's private money, right? It's not public money. It's not grants. It's
almost all private investment that makes these developments occur. Even if we speculatively build utilities, we're not we're going to assess that to private property owners. So, it's all eventually going back to that. So, the funding is
like it seems like the biggest hurdle. >> A lot of it's already here. And like look at the way the market's been actually responding with projects now that we've gotten organized and been better about planning and had some resources to >> to work with them.
Yeah. After hearing all the discussion, I wonder about just what if we just take funding out of these options. No, it's I think it's worth leaving in because if you want to spend our time really did doing
a deep dive on that if we think that's where we can make the most impact is, you know, it's more like a standards and templates response that we want to be organized with funding and understand it and be able to communicate it and figure out how to use it more strategically.
That's still an option to me. I mean, we we could make some progress there. So we could do some good work there. So that's where you want to do it. >> Yeah. Could I hear a good a good maybe good uh description of development planning? Like what what are we saying
with that? Like what is that? Let's look at what you did say. >> Okay. Identify the largest blocks of vacant real estate suitable for housing. Identify areas we don't want to see residential development. Work with Cook County HR to create a comprehensive housing plan. lowhanging fruit, which is
identify areas where it's the easiest to do development. Um, target areas of the community, the next expansion can mean prioritizing the resources as they come. So, what we're talking about is thinking about the context of the city and
putting together some ways to communicate where we want to see things develop, future development plan. >> Okay. And I think that's what you're talking about is yes, we want to have uh that
kind of plan, a map that says here's where we want to see development. And we also need a plan that says here's what needs to get built and how much it's going to cost. And those are the things that communicate with funders. >> Yeah. on the off chance that I get a phone call at 3:00 in the afternoon and
it's developer saying we want to move to, you know, Grand Beret and build all these houses and that sort of thing. Where would we go and who would we talk to? It'd be kind of nice to have that map or that that that plan of saying, "Oh, okay. Well, we've got 10 acres over
there and the utilities are 500 ft away or or the cases at least to give them some information about that." But there's so many other things like the there's the housing study itself and there's all all the relative information that they need to know before they get
to that second part. >> Yeah, that's like a great future vision statement for what this could look like in terms of communicating with prospective developers. >> Yeah. >> Uh there's already plans, right? We already have statements of intention that are codified and mapped and
published. It's called a zoning map, right? you've already said this is where we want to see residential development. So part of this development planning for me, it actually mixes in a little bit of community input conversation, too, is are you sure you're okay with what
you're saying with that zoning map? Because it hasn't always looked like we are when people come forward with projects that the residential zoning would potentially allow and it's in a residentially zoned area, but maybe we didn't think that through enough and we
really didn't want it to be a residentially zoned area. So, that's part of it, too, is let's let's make sure we're as good as we can get in community agreement on where we want to see residential development because maybe our zoning map isn't
>> specific enough or accurate to some extent. That also is the the redevelopment part of H redevelopment authority. You know, we we can look at redeveloping existing locations too. Um, if it if it's a building that maybe
isn't fitting the need anymore or it's kind of outlasted its livelihood, it's a conversation about knocking it down and rebuilding it with a second floor, something like that perhaps. >> Mhm. >> As an opportunity, but the questions are
how far up is the the highest you can build before we can really go that far too. So, >> we only get one vote this time. How many votes we got? >> I want to say three. I >> again. >> Yeah. Um
before we vote, considering the conversation, any changes you want to make to the categories or stick with those categories and go for it. I just like to go on the record of
saying I was the only one that voted for community me. >> Let that go to the record. >> I did like it's baked in. >> One way or the other it's baked in.
It's all pleasure. >> So, this time I'm going to just write down these categories, set them over here, and I'm going to give you each three stickers. >> Oh, >> and you can >> have at it. We need to see the stickers. >> How many stickers? >> Three.
>> Three. >> What color? >> Every color. >> Oh, >> all right. >> Can we talk about or you help me understand the difference between standards and templates and rules? >> Yeah. Okay. The rules are um
are specific codified regulations, >> okay? >> Like lot width or >> okay >> um are we allowing septics on what size lot or how high can a building be? standards and templates are um
do we have a preference for road width when a new one is built or do we want to see sidewalks or curb and gutter or does it have to be paved or not >> that part isn't in our zoning >> there is no standards that are codified
uh you could codify them if you want but we don't even have them so we have to create them but I think it's more about uh the type of communication too. Like rules is more about this is what you have to do and standards and templates is more about communicating here's a
path that's an easier way for you to get to where you want to go and we're trying to help guide through with here's a template for how a development agreement conversation goes and what we're willing to do for what you do and >> more about that. Uh so again just let's
read what you wrote right. create a clear cost sharing model for prospective landowner developers. So, right now we've done a few models. Um the only clear we've got is if you're building new stuff, you're paying for
it, right? But is there some other standard we want to create or is it just that? And are we clear about it? Um that within the development agreement itself like what sorts of financial commitments are we asking them to make? Is that what we want to do? We're clear
about it. Next one, public private development options with land owners who own multiple properties which could be divided. I think this is trying to get a little bit at that question about the 5 acre lot with one house. Rules may not be the way to do it because we maybe
don't have an authority to tell somebody you can't build one house on five acres, but maybe there's standards and templates we can say this is what we prefer and here's the path to get there. Um expectations for new infrastructure. This is like, do when you build a new
subdivision, uh, if it's this many lots, the road has to be this big and it has to have >> Yeah, that kind of stuff. >> Just going to stick them right on the screen. Oh, yeah. >> There you go.
There's your place. So, >> yeah, I'd say uh I mean this is this is it. When you guys are done placing the stickers, we can talk about it a little bit more and then we're done. Okay. I'm going to go last. >> Come on. Somebody be brave here.
Yeah, Michael double down. Just want to zoom the camera in on the paper. >> So development planning got five votes. uh mapping, community input,
partnerships all got two votes and standards and templates got one vote. >> We talked about funding. That's great news. >> Thanks Jeff for just taking that one for us. Yeah, that's
>> if you want. I mean, I I have uh a one pager I created. It ended up being three pages, but of funding basically all the way through. Um we could do this thing called capital stacking. It's a strategy to maximize the amount of money that's available outside of town. So, we have
to locally support everything 100%, but it's on a case- by case basis for for funding whatever we're looking at. So, >> okay. Do most do most funding sources I mean do they most carry there's a percentage
of you know whatever like AMI you know what I mean like is there affordable >> requirements that go or attached to most funding >> some of it um some of it requires things
that will add additional costs like prevailing wage um there's the different things of that nature as well a better level. Um, some most of it I would say the majority of it does require some skin in the game by locals, you know, whether it being
capital investment, bonding, >> seen that a lot. >> Um, tip districts, >> local uh, individual property owners, you know, there's that, too. >> But we I've seen very little that didn't
have some affordability requirement attached to it. >> Yeah. We looked long and hard for opportunities for just market rate utility infrastructure for single family homes and I we didn't see any programs that were designed for that and very few
that we even thought we could qualify for. >> So I RB is about the only and I'm not sure if they have any affordability requirements. I think they probably do from time to time. >> They have they have um different buckets
of requirements. Um sometimes it's a matter of um equity in the community um with whatever your customer base is and and who's accessing these different um products. Um some of it is what we're
doing for the environment in the process as well as a requirements and sometimes that gets a different grade compared to other things as well. And then it it's about competitiveness honestly for a project cuz it's only a finite amount of
money. And so that's their that's their kind of get out of jail free card to say we're not going to fund this project because maybe the other project is also addressing those additional things that they're considering as well. Um, so
whatever product you're looking at or whatever federal or state program you're looking at, there's going to be specific uh requirements. This kind of goes with the program. An observation um you didn't mention
affordable one time in this conversation until now. Like we didn't say it was an opportunity or threat very much. We said cost is but we did not say what we want to focus on is constructing affordable housing. I mean
we're that seems pretty clear that we've moved away from what is going to be built to just how do we make it possible for anything >> and the really the only thing that got specifically mentioned was assisted living u senior style housing as a as a
concept. So that's useful to have that kind of information that maybe we've gotten away from the other piece of it for a minute and we just want to figure out anything build anything. We don't even care. Just help us figure out how to use
our utilities better. So when we talk to the H Jeff, is this useful feedback for them for you? >> It is. It really is. Yep. Absolutely. My idea in having a joint meeting is to kind of get to the point where we're
starting to move in a direction together that we can just, you know, share our resources wherever we can. We're here in the county. Graham Maria is the only location in the entire county that has any infrastructure. And so it's important for us as we look towards
future development. We own a couple of properties here in town that we'd like to develop at some point. um some don't have any access to really any utilities and some have access to everything pretty pretty close proximity and so um
you know and there's some additional needs too. So we're looking at uh senior le senior housing well there's only one rate for that that's not really affordable. It's going to be market rate for senior housing. Um, but the question is where do we put it in town and access
to other things like the hospital and downtown and transportation and some of these crossroads discussions about other issues that are important as well. But yeah, definitely this is going to be important. >> Well, our next step is to try and
distill some of this into a response strategy and bring that in front of you for your next conversation. >> Great. That's awesome. >> Thanks everybody. >> I won't get to be here.
>> They said community input got two votes. So >> it's baked in. >> I'll call you when I don't like to waste. >> It's already happening. And I guess they were yours.