Yeah. All right, we're live. Okay, great. And I will call this meeting of the Grand Ray Planning Commission to order. Um, when we left off last time, we were asking some more
questions for your folks here um and asking for more information to continue our discussion from last time. And I know that some discussions have taken place with the city as we as we asked.
Um, and I would like to start off with you guys coming back with what you got and conversations you've had. We met with Mike Monday. If you could tap the Oh, yeah. Yeah. Uh, uh, we met with Mike a week ago Monday. I was in person. John
was on Zoom when we finally got it working. And uh so what Mike said that we wanted to have would be a proposed phasing uh HOA agreement for the water sewer hookup uh landscape plan. Um we
kind of talked about the Janet Simon in property, but you know if you look at the that's well above um um Wally Drive and won't be impacted by this project. Um and then storm water
uh more detail more detail on the storm water and John Ly has done some more work and he's on the zoom here and I don't profess to be uh any kind of a storm water person but I think he does so um and you know some of the the stuff
that you've got in your packet there is the phasing uh a pretty detailed uh HOA water sewer hookup agreement and and complete with projected costs and then uh the landscape plan. It's a
little a little weak. Uh I'll admit, but uh you know the the I think the intention is is to after construction's complete reveate where we can on the on the project. um is no project's complete without the
landscape and the and the vegetation. So, um, in the phasing, uh, you've got a kind of both a description and colored chart of, you know, here,
here, here, here. Right. So, I think we've, uh, met that. Uh and of course over the course of all these discussions um I think that uh this project has met all the criteria of the planning and the
zoning ordinance for a project like this and you know I would uh take any questions and and really push for your approval. Okay. Okay. Thanks for that. Um I would like to start with the question for
Mike. I assume at some point um Burkberg has talked with you guys about how the utilities are going to work. I know that that was a question we all had from last time around. Uh I seen the document. Um again, I am not an
attorney. Uh what did our attorney say? I am not an attorney either and ours has not looked at this. Okay. So, let's just keep that in mind. And I think that our attorney will have a lot of suggested edits for how to write the language, but we can talk about what the language is
trying to accomplish as a separate conversation. Okay. And just make sure we like the way it works before we spend a lot of time and money having our attorneys review it. That makes sense. Yeah. Well, that'd be great. This was written by John's attorney. Rush, not a rush back. I mean
he spent time on it but anyway time tried to get it done on a timely manner and and think we we did talk we did look at that document and you had edits on it and so we it's kind of a
two but re Rev two on that document. This is version two. does include some new things after our conversation. Uh my basic desire for this deal is that we
understand what would be required of future connections in terms of what the rights are and what the payments would be. More to the point, we understand how the system's going to be operated, how it's going to be maintained, who's responsible for it, how it's going to be
funded, and all those details are in here. So I think there's answers still as questions and and now what we're left with is do we like those answers? Is this adequate? Okay. The the basic model here is that the developer is spending their mo their own money to install
utilities. The utilities are close to but not all the way to some of the adjacent rights of way where other property owners might want to be served. Those property owners could request connection to this. They aren't forced to. they could find another way to get
utilities to their property. But if they wanted to use these, they could request connection that the association and the city would review that request. If they were to connect, they would owe some money to the developer and the
association to pay for their share of this initial installation. Some of that money again will go back to the developer. That seems like that's new since the first version we looked, but some would get into the homeowners association to I guess fund replacements or repairs
as needed. And there's an example in here of how that calculation would work. Those are not real numbers, but they're based on what we think kind of things will happen based on what their engineers have said the cost of the project would be. uh that it's still a
little tricky I think to look ahead 10 or 15 years and understand exactly how someone might interact with this. Um, but all the pieces here, if you wanted to do that one at a time, I don't know how feasible it is
for somebody to come and pay for that connection, but honestly, that is no different than if they didn't do the project is the same way, right? So, what we're trying to figure out is did this take the problem from the council's
decision last time? No. where these private utilities make it not feasible for the surrounding properties to ever connect to public utilities and is it now feasible for them to do that? Yeah.
Thanks. Thanks Mike. Good. I mean it it's we've had some time but it's a short time frame and to project uh in these documents in in the in the thinking out 15 years
um I I hope that there's some flexibility to do some future stuff like that. You know, certainly Mike and and John and I talk a lot about uh the system itself, the the design of the system, the ongoing maintenance of the system, possibly turn it over to the
city at some point uh in in Mike's desire to have it constructed in such a way that uh headache. But to to sit here and anticipate anticipate every minute detail projected out 15 years, I would not
um conjure up an idea we could do that. But you know certainly hope we have flexibility and in a pattern it'll follow into the future. There's a there's a few um again it's like you know out in the distance but a few checks in there
too that the city has to remove um you know anybody who hooks up in their plans and then there's a also because there's a homeowners association we have an actual separate fund for water and sewer and when somebody hooks up part of that
goes into a reserve fund part of it goes into an operating fund so it's kind of I mean I I think the mechanisms are pretty well thought out. My attorney had done one of these before and I think that helped a little bit too. So, okay. All
right. Uh, thanks for that. I know our commissioners here have questions. Um, Commissioner Hawkins, you have something you would like to ask? Um, what it's about that agreement and yeah, you shared that your
attorney had done one other one. I'm reading this, it's a lot of legal ease. It's over my head. And so I that's what I wondered. Um how common is this with these percentages? And do we h Did you look into anything about
I don't think this is a common situation at all. I think this is a oneoff. Okay. So we're unique. So we are kind of I I got the the premise of it and I I understand. I I do think it's not fair
that you as a developer pay the full amount for everybody to go. So I appreciated the percentages here of making sure that hopefully that you know it's maintained through the homeowners
association. I just wondered if that those percentages were realistic. there. Um, no, I mean it it's not it's not like this is happening all over and there's all sorts of models. It's basically just trying to figure out something that's
reasonable. Um and um I do think you know for the city's perspective and I understand what the issues because you you don't want to have like a landlock thing like Anna Hamilton had where she couldn't hook up and that's kind of kind of I think
trying to avoid is it's a it is a mechanism or as you expand it you might if the city's not ready to do something you might have a model that might work for future things. I don't know but it's it's We're trying to address what the major
issues were and protect all the parties involved. Great. I mean, if we do have people connect to the system in the future, it's basically operating as a public utility
anyway, other than the fact that we've complicated it by adding a bunch of different owners and decision makers into the process. So, one of one of our conversations was like they said it was to be turned over to the city. And I think one of our concerns is that that
might be an inevitability is how do we ensure that if it is turned over to the city that what the city's getting is something that they would have built that is maintained the way that they would have maintained so that you know works for us. Right. So
where does that happen? in the developer agreement down or is where are we talking? Yeah, I don't feel like it's there yet. I think what we talked about um there there are ways we could try to make that happen. The three keys to that for me are that
it's designed to our specifications which we know already will happen and we've got experience working with this engineer and the city engineer on designing things and having them reviewed. So that part I'm comfortable with that it's built to our
specifications. The way that we would do that is we would hire an investigation or an on-site uh engineers are going to they're going to measure everything while it's happening. They're going to keep good records. They're going to provide us with asbuilt drawings in the
end. If the developer does that, whether or not we're involved in that process, if they do it to the same level we would have done it, that might take care of that concern. And then how do we know how it's maintained on into the future? That's a little trickier, but I think we
can figure out a way to do that, too. Okay. Because I think the idea of having say three or four different property owners attached with their own either public or private systems to this system starts to get a little tricky. Yeah, I think that Sure. Cool. I mean,
they're our customer, right? Yeah. Right. I mean, ultimately, they're our customer. So, I was I mean, I guess that's the what I was wondering and of course we don't know that and that maybe is in the developers agreement or in the final you
know the engineering work that MSA is going to do um but just thinking about you know okay so we got 21 residents coming off of this main line into third do we know like how big is the line in third that goes into Fifth Avenue West we know what that is
okay and so if you tee off as drawn right at that point through the between the you know what I mean your horizontal your east west road there so if I don't know looks like satellite wise I mean who knows what would ever happen but you
know we have a minimum lot size which is our 40 foot width right so even if there is houses now down against third you potentially have say six more residences that could go on each side of that correct on the west side I mean again
we'd have to look at the what those lot sizes are so If now we've got 12 plus the 21 feeding in that's the only thing I think that because right but part of the reason we did the lot size change is so that we could have more dense development in our
one zone and I would assume that if I was one of those adjacent property owners that now had the opportunity to you doing the heavy lifting right there is a buy in for each one of those hookups but obviously those properties
adjacent become much more uh well they're worth more. They're salailable. And there is a shot right there at those manholes that are drawn as or the sanitary sewer risers or whatever that's drawn out those circles on the on the plan.
Um where if you didn't care about having a couple houses in your backyard, it might be worthwhile breaking those up into whatever it is. It could be two, it could be four, but I think zoning wise it could be up to say five to six. You
know, again, I don't I'd have to due to the county site. So, that would be I guess that's my only thing is like understanding again I know fifth has got the capacity because we just redid fifth. I don't understand because I don't know it what the capacity is in third. And we also talk about how much
is going to get torn up on third, but that's really moving west of, you know, it's not the connection between fifth and sixth, right? That's going to be there. That's not going to be No. So, um the the mains
that are in Third Street right now, it's 6inch water man. Yeah. And there isn't any issue with a 6 inch water mane having the capacity to serve this many houses and a lot more. Yeah. I'm not worried of water as much because I figured it was 6 in running through there. It was more like this the sewer
side of it. I didn't know what was sewer side of it. Same thing. It's an 8 in sewer man. Okay. And I don't think there's any concern about capacity for I mean we've got 8 inch sewer mains that serve many blocks. Yeah. So, I don't think the the potential number of people connecting to this isn't a
concern. As more people would connect to it, there may be a need to add more than we currently have drawn in front of us right now. That that's not it. That part doesn't concern me as much as the part about sorting through who's responsible for what in the future, right? Yeah. And
I could see again, right, something happens and then it's it kind of blossoms around, right? That's just the way development kind of works if people are looking to get the most bang for their buck. So, right, if um and again, I don't know if that's something that we
necessarily have to address here the because we're not engineers, but like whatever we're going to have MSA present and have LHB review understanding that and with the expectation that 10 years, 15 years, 20 years, there
is going to be probably more than likely subdivision and building on either side of this proposed development. I think it's realistic to expect that. Yeah. I it's not my area of expertise, but I have dabbled in plumbing and supply and
and septic and my intuition is we have that's not a restriction constriction. There's plenty of capacity in a 6inch water man and an 8 in sewer. And then my other question was um thanks for getting all this stuff together too
by the way. Um so my other question was is because of like the phased approach I guess is your the phased approach of building is your approach for infrastructure to be
the full works um probably be phased yeah I mean it depends upon uh the contractor and some of those issues but we're looking at it as as most likely a phased installation but the first phase has to get up to Wally avenue because that collateral
then feeds down back to the so I mean it's it's over probably twothirds of the work you know so I only bring that up because I did try to understand the connection fee and the hypothetical model that was in there and
again maybe I'm again particularly thinking of the east side because that would be the third and fourth phase so well a couple things So, we talked about traffic flow. So, it seems like road
work-wise, the horseshoe is going to happen right off the bat. Y. So, then if it's a later phase where now we got to tear it up to put infrastructure in to feed three and four, right? I mean, I know that's Yeah, those are good questions. I I don't know the
answer. I mean, and only because we like I think we kind of jumped one hurdle with like, oh, we're going to set this up as like oneway flow, but now all of a sudden, what is that change to like road widths and things if now we're actually doing two-way traffic with what could potentially be, right? I mean, so I
think the avenues could potentially be two-way at some point u on the interro we want to restrict it to one. That's what I'm saying. So if you came down right I mean I guess that's the thing is you couldn't head east right if that wasn't extended now that road to make
your horseshoe and you know I and I'm not like trying to catch you up in anything. I'm mostly just thinking like, okay, well, that's why it's like if you said, yeah, we're going to do all the infrastructure, all the road right now, right? Yeah. Then a you would potentially open up I don't know as far
as adjacent property owners on that east side would be like, oh yeah, maybe we do want to like tie into this and now you're getting that fee to help offset that cost. And um well I mean if I'm just trying to think
ahead it's not gonna be an end all you know to everything because you know at some point there may be more things coming from ETH or even on third I don't know but um you know actually in St. Cloud they they have they have had
developments where the water lines were all private initially and their agreements with the city were that they would turn them over to the city when it hooked up and that's what so I mean there there have been things done like this before sure but um
but it you know the anticipation is that Wall-E Avenue is going to be gravel so it's not like ripping up uh you know to put that east lateral in um it's not like you're you're screwing up much and No, I don't I I agree. I just I'm just
saying the the impacts of tearing that road out would have an impact to the other hurdle we jumped over as far as traffic flow and how we could kind of appease people that maybe were here for the first meeting and arc here right now. And that's as we phase the
building, you also phase traffic, right? Yeah. So the first part if if that didn't even go all the way across, it's only five five. So it's very small. And then if we if you go on up, you know, it's kind of logical that that's handled. And then if we go up uh Sandy
Lane, yeah, Sandy Lane at that point, the road would have to be completed, right? Okay. Then the last the fourth phase, we I have no idea that. Yeah. Can I can I just ask about the utility? So the utilities will be phase two. I had I
had it in my mind that that all the utilities and such would go in and then you'd pay your construction. It may it may it all depends upon, you know, who the contractor is, what the costs are and stuff. We may even elect to to put them all in when when we're we're doing things. So it
so there's been soil borings. There's some indication from the borings that there's dirt rather than rock. um you know if it's easy going and you know it's not horribly expensive to just put the rest of that in. if if it's you run into rock on the way there or you
know across the top there then you know changes but you know so it's going to be situational I would guess and you know there's a lot of discussion the last uh meeting around this table and from the audience about the the cost
of the final cost of the units and you know I just went home and thought you know everything we're doing here. You know, John is building segments of three city streets, putting in the sewer and water. All these have an impact on the
overall cost. So, sure, you can't have it both ways. I mean, you can't have drop your cost for everything else, but then pay all these the for this development. So, I mean, it it's you have to be a little bit sensitive that
that uh no matter what project it is, I mean, that cost and money is an issue and you know if you can stage it that works out better you know I think in John's dialogue you know it's um very typical developer I mean you
want to use somebody else's money to do this so you know he's looking at pre-sales u to do that and you know goes out to sell five units and sells 10 you know phase two happens a lot faster for instance so I think the most difficult
part is going to be coming from third street. That's where the you know there's the least amount of dirt where we have to come up and go in once we get you know up to that cross part that we will have have the most difficult part. All
right. Okay. Um commissioners Ben you have I don't really have any question just to maybe follow up on on Mike's last comment about what that would look like. you know, if this became a city utility
again or whatever. Um that last step then of having some oversight or some um some transparency on how and what and making sure it's built to a particular spec. Is that something you'd tolerate? I think we talked about we'll figure out
what's the most efficient way to do it. Um but we'd have it done. We'd have to that that's going to happen. Okay. Yeah. We either, we talked about that, Mike, you know, we'd either hire a city approved inspector or the city would hire the inspector and we would to pay
for it. I mean, that's pretty typical. Yeah. I just wanted to be reasonably done. I mean, that's different than the deals we've done with other private utilities. And, you know, there's not a lot of these yet, so it's not like we got a track record of this is how it's done in the city. with
uh with Vesta, it's going to be publiclyowned utilities. And so our development agreement with them is that they have to pay us upfront for the cost of doing the inspections and we're going to hire their engineer,
MSA, to do the inspections. We're going to hire the engineer. We're going to pay the engineer, but Chris is paying for the cost of that. So, it's that's not something that we're requiring have done on private utilities at North Skogan.
We're not saying that they have to pay us for the cost of those inspections because we're not anticipating ever owning those utilities. In this case, if it was all private, probably wouldn't require those inspections upfront. But because it's
private with this chance of it becoming public, it seems like that's a better way to handle it. Yeah, I agree. And I'm I'm deeply into the Heights project and that's the same way that we it's private utility going in, but we've had discussions about as development occurs
there. That might be a city piece. And so we're the city's hiring MSA group is paying the bill, but they're hiring MSA to do the inspection. Okay. Yeah. So, it's it's maybe not that common, but it's getting to be.
So, we could see something similar. I think so. I mean, the the real concern that I have and I think I've heard from other people and talking about this is that homeowners associations aren't set up for this. They're not good at it. They have a track record of being bad at
it. And maybe we don't want to ask them to take something on like this where they have a chance of failing at it that could potentially affect other people. And so we just need to be ready to be the owners at some
point. This, you know, is now the third somewhat large housing development that we've looked at in the past five years where the idea of should they be private or public has been talked about. I think mostly because of the fees that we would charge up front for financial security
to cover the installation of public utilities. And the reason this has gone private is because those are expensive and cost a lot of money. So we we probably still have some more work to do as a city to figure out how we want to handle this. I know the council needs to
talk some more about this still about where do we want to land on this. So, I don't think what we want to do is encourage a heck of a lot more private utilities that act like public utilities to get built. Yeah. I think it's important that we have something that would trigger or potentially trigger
that that um that um reversion back to to city utility, right? And I don't know if that's one outside person hooking up or if it's five or it's three. I don't know what that is, right? But yeah, and and maybe just figuring out a
way to, I don't know, to have some sort of sunset like, okay, you know, save you some money now and then in the future know like it's going to go to us. And I, you know, I just, you may not want to take it over either. You know, I'm so I mean there's, it could go both
ways. Yeah. Sure. The the other thing is just to be clarified, the city will collect all the water and sewer fees and all of those things and city approved meters, all that. Yeah. Right. Right. We're having these discussions, you know,
we're same engineers are designing it, inspections will be there, the implementation and the it, you know, what developer, homeowner or contractor wants to do a sloppy job. I mean, it's going to be well done, you
know, it's just a given. And then a lot of talk about maintenance is not a lot of maintenance of pipes in the ground, you know, to keep frost away from them. And well, things happen. Things happen. happens. I I don't accept that it's a
given. I I hope that all the players involved want to do a good job, but I don't think that we can accept that as a given. That's why we have inspectors. Yeah. That's why we're having that discussion. Yeah. and and uh I wouldn't expect there to be any major problems for the first 20 years, but things
happen. Yeah. So, Anton, you had a question last time about um water. Yeah. Did you feel that that was covered in any way? I mean, it
didn't seem like we had what we had. Um, I mean, I think at the So, we're going to see this back in front of us, I'm assuming, at different stages, right? This is the conditional use permit so that they know the blessing to move forward with next steps and engineering and those types of things.
Again, I'm not I I guess that's my only I so I live on the Gunfllin Trail and I know that when they put the Gunfllint trail in that changed like sheath flow, right? And I know like engineering wise you can just not have you know equal
amounts of water can come off the property post development as pre-development. That's like the standard, right? But what tends to happen is that it's it tends to get concentrated, right? So for this instead of it having the full width of the block
to be able to come down what is happening is at least from again what the way I understand it is that it's basically going to a riser pipe but it's it's able to flow out but it's going to flow out at a single source. We have a spot actually where is where power came
through up the gunflow when that got brought in and like basically instead of it kind of coming through in the springtime when it's like icy and then running you know like that kind of glaciation kind of thing that happens in the cold nights in the spring. I mean
the and even in the winter time when it gets really cold and the frost is driving the water out of the ground like to the east like downhill between 1 Avenue West and North Broadway. I mean it's like you know they're like making multiple passes with the grater because
it's just like a glacier coming across the north side of the gunpoint there. Nobody did anything wrong. You know, that is what is I think right. I mean, it's just a change. It's development. And that's the only thing that like I don't and I that's not my job to understand it. But I
also I don't know if I quite can wrap my head around how where I mean if I look at the phase one plan, right? There's kind of like one and a half storm water ponds on phase one. So where like where does
the is the the I guess I don't understand how everything is working from one pond to the next with those purple those purple lines or that's our storm water. I think that's it. Yeah. I don't think it's clear based on what lawyer is monitoring
if you'd want to have maybe that's not like what we're supposed to be talking about but I do think like I think it's an important factor to understand where that goes right and we we ask for a storm water management plan as a part of a plan unit
development. Yeah. So, it's definitely what you're supposed to be talking about and you have asked for it again here and have this in front of you and as a concept and if we accept the idea that we're only going to do a limited amount of engineering before approval to
prevent wasted money. Yeah. That it's a concept that's probably understandable for the most part. But once you get too far into it, you can't really know the answers to those questions without getting engineering done. Yeah. And I look at it and I have the same concerns. I don't really know. Well, that's more
my question is like is this going to come either in front of us or the council again as it moves through out of the conditional use permit side into the because we have to do final plat and with a conditional use permit that does everything for this plan unit development. It's different than our
other platting process and I don't think it would necessarily come back to the planning commission after you do the conditional use permit. I mean, there's still quite a bit of detail to be added into a development agreement that wouldn't necessarily have to come back to the planning commission, but could if
you wanted it to. Well, and I don't think that any of us sitting here necessarily, you know, I mean, John Loy's got way more understanding and the people at LHB that would are the city side of the engineers to review it also have a better understanding. But I guess my point is is I mean that's the crux,
right? Like if like the standard is that we can't have more than what would typically run off the property run off the property. Yeah. It's more of like the point loading side of it. And I guess that's I mean it's a question I had in this phase drawing. So I don't
quite to me it looks like I don't quite understand. So, it looks like the upper pond that's below phase two is flowing under the road over to the catchment pond that's below phase three and then and then that's being
channeled into a ditch that runs along 6th Avenue West. Right. So, that's what I see. I mean, you've added some details that don't exist in this drawing to the story, but that's the way I understand it, too. And so, then if I look at So
that that's again I mean it kind of goes back to the phase side of things and how that works because how can we I mean you can't really do phase one's storm water can't just sit in that pond. It's got to go all the way, you
know, that's that's the part of like understanding the utility side of phasing versus just the I mean considering storm water part of the utilities, right? Because that pond above phase one or you know what I'm saying, right? Does everybody see the same thing I'm looking at? Y I think
John's available too and he may have some answers. He's on Yeah. Hi, John. Hi. You hear me? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Am I am I reading that right? Like the
purple lines are basically where it comes out of the whether it's the manhole rise or whatever like that is then coming through. And I did look at the elevations. I mean, so that does
track that lower storm water pond, the bottom or the I don't remember now because it was last meeting, but the elevations work out with what the elevation of Third Street is for that to go on there,
but Okay. So, purple lines are are storm pipes, green lines are sanitary pipes, blue lines are water pipes. Yeah. Okay. Just for clarity. So the idea is that all those purple lines drain
into a rip wrap of some sort that separates out the um or not separates but dissipates the water. So it's not a point it's not a point discharge. Gotcha.
and as best as we can do. I mean, it's right. And that's you got the run coming out of the upper two ponds, right? You got that whole that whole ditch way to have rip wrap in that that ditch, but it's the lower pond where
and again I'm not like I guess that's the part that I trust you guys to do that. I trust LHB to review that. But I, you know, because the standard is we can take this much water off of here. What I don't understand is like what are we comfortable with as far as like you know
summertime not as worried about it. It's those kind of like weird shoulder seasons where what is how do we address that in a way short of saying hey John and like you know and I don't know maybe and I know
that's next step but I I don't I'm trying to not just assume in this position here that not that you guys won't do the right thing but that we don't that that we're not creating something that what's downstream of that is going
to be affected. Yeah, in some ways in very positive ways it'll be affected too. Like this is taking all the water from this block and moving it east. Yeah. And there is a lot of water that comes down this hill, not just on the hill, but underground on the hill that
creates issues for the property owners on the block to the south that probably get a lot better with all the water heading over to 6th Avenue first. Yeah. But there isn't any fixed storm sewer system in 6th Avenue until you get much further down the road.
There's no fixed storm sewer on Third Street between Fifth and Sixth Avenue. Right. There's a beautiful storm sewer system in Fifth Avenue. Yeah. But we're not there. So, it has to get to that. One of the nice things is that because it flows to the southeast, it's heading
towards the county's parking lot rather than somebody's basement. And there's some unfinished road space there that could be used figure out that problem. But that's where my mind goes too is okay that we've got the water moving now to this point on the southeast corner of
the block and now what? Well, it is development. There will be impacts and and the engineering and the the rules and the what everybody's trying to do is try to minimize that impact. Uh, so it's not going to be the same, but with competent people doing
the work here, um, it'll be plus and minuses and maybe more pluses and minuses. But John, can I ask you I'm sorry, hard. John, can I ask you one more question? Just just as we talked about kind of the phasing side of utilities and things like am am I right?
It's kind of because the the boxes are different colors. So I think your purple line if do you have that same image? It says like ST-3 is the page that we're looking at. I'm looking at. Okay. Um and so it shows the purple, right? Storm
water coming out of the pond that splits phase one and phase two, goes underneath the road, and then it it it looks like it splits it runs due east and then kind of curves back up to the pond that's in
phase three. Is that am I looking at that right or is it at that point is that like a ditch potentially that's running you know is that subsurf is it below ground or is that above ground that that pipe when it discharges out of the phase one pond down to the phase
three pond or maybe you don't know yet. No, the pipes I mean the pipes all daylight. Um they run underground and then they daylight wherever they come out.
And the idea is that they daylight into rip wrap. Uh when the flow we you know wherever the flow ends in the pipe it either dischar Yeah. It discharges into a into a rip wrap so that it's it's an energy dissipation. Spreads
it out. Sure. Okay. Does that Does that make sense? Yeah, that makes sense. I guess the only thing I was trying to Yeah, I mean that makes sense. I guess I was the way I saw those lines drawing was that that that that pond on the west side drains over to the pond. But if
you're saying that where that purple line changes, there just happens to be a line tying in. Well, maybe that's I think it's definitely meant to to be a ditch there. So, it's a ditch, but then the ditch that now you've got those are garages, right, that are on the north side of the
road there that are connected to phase four, not phase three. So, I think that one of the real problems here is the color rectangles are not in the right place. Oh, yeah. We can adjust. Well, maybe that's what's screwing me up. Yeah, I see.
All right. All right. Because you wouldn't build that pond at the top of phase one in phase one. It's there for phase two. And you can't build it until you do phase three anyway because it's going
into the phase three pond. So I think that and that gets back to your earlier questions about the water and wastewater phasing. It's not really quite answered yet. We don't really know. Needs to be thought through some more.
All right. You can't build the pond at the bottom because half of it is in the life estate of someone who's not leaving. So how does that happen? I don't know. I
think we had part John knows. Yeah. Partially. So because it well because that pond basically functions as half and half. Okay. We'll build half the pond. I thought we showed rip I thought
we had rip wrap, but we'll have rip wrap as it drains out in phase one right onto Third Street so that we're not just putting a fire hose onto the street. And yeah, and then phase when phase two happens, that's when we expand the pond
for those other houses and we move the discharge more into that big rip wrap area. Okay, that's the part that I thought was I noticed different this time around than last time is looking at the elevation sections that you guys provided. On the first one, it did show
that rip wrap coming out of the pond basically right onto Third Street. Yep. Yep. And we have no curb and gutter on Third Street between Sixth and 7th. An
excellent transition because if that's just discharging onto Third Street, Yeah. it either is going to just come down onto that yellow house on, you know what I mean? It's not going to work right now to just the offer is to
rebuild third street with gutter on the south side because it slants that way. I knew we were going to redo third, but I didn't know. Redoing third and then redoing third with curb and gutter is a whole another our plan that we had developed by LHB assumed curb and gutter
on both sides of third street. Okay. So the $200,000 give or take budget number included curbon gutter. Okay. Yeah. which is absolutely essential on the south side of the road. Not sure about the number. Sure. Yeah. So I think the
offer the commitment is to do third street gutter on one side 20 ft wide between six and seven and looking at the costing of that it looked like the 50,000 you know bump covered that.
Um so in terms of the process after here after this point what is the next step? So they're here. They'll go it. You know, if you mean after here, after this conversation or after you're done with
this as we've got we've got it here now. We still we have some questions. We're not 100%. But I'm wondering um yeah, I mean it goes to council. Mhm. They'll have questions and requirements, but then if
they approve it at that point, we'll see nothing again or what what are we talking? What do you want to have happen? Uh well, I I guess if you're saying we
have choices, Absolutely. then I think um we would probably want to see see it again for sure. I mean if you know this commissioners are willing and counselors are willing. Well this is a conditional
use permit that's being asked for. Yeah that is a requirement to do a planned unit development. It's a conditional use in this zone. You can add conditions to it that you'd like to see further steps that will need to be a
development agreement. You could add a condition that the planning commission review and recommend the development agreement before the council sees it. If you wanted to do something like that, it's probably the best next step for you to learn more about what's going
on. I think that would certainly allow us to get more clarity, more questions answered. I mean, there will be a need to get a lot more engineering done before that is completed. So, I think then we wouldn't
have any questions about how the water's going to work or what's going to get built when or anything like that. He John can go with the confidence of like understanding that yes like this is the criteria that has to be met and or right
like we yeah like we're saying so it isn't just a here we go and who knows what's going to happen at council um but you know when it leaves us I think we did get the information that after the last time it got kicked back to us I feel like this especially
between the last meeting and now like this really helps And I think um and I think I mean maybe just because I think it's interesting question that's why I want to see it. But I think it's important I mean also like I want to approve it with
the confidence that you know it's not going to be it's not going to create a headache. Well these are all next steps. Yeah. Right. And that's what I'm saying is like that that you he has the confidence to spend the money. First step is a yes from you. The next step is
is get to the council. Then you go back and and John's got the confidence then to to you know now the project started. Now you can go back and and complete this what might be somewhat sketchy because yeah my understanding is a city
engineer is going to have to approve it anyhow. Yeah. It's going to be a development agreement. So I think you have a number of steps there that mean the work the work's going to be done and having you review it shouldn't be an obstacle. If that's a condition, I mean, fine.
Yeah. Yeah. Um, I guess that's the one. I mean, I I' uh I should know what this is called. I know it's called Yorkberg, but I don't That's That's good enough. I mean I would and I think that's the condition that I'd put on a conditional
use permit and like voting to like to make a motion to pass this is that we after he has the blessing if this gets through the council before it is like you know so we can see the developers agreement we can see the final engineering we can see all that
just the did it address some of the things that we brought up tonight and again I'm not going to argue with John Ly you know what I mean about how he should things. But again, just to know that like I'll
pass this pass this push this forward that um that you know like I I feel comfortable and it answers the questions that I can think of. Was that for super long?
You guys second that one. You got that in the recording. In the recording. That's good. AI has motion in a second. I and I just want to say that I think it's I get it. You're our practice one really. So
having that development agreement come back to us and the other stuff will just help educate us for the next time we're in this spot. And I hope this isn't our last time that we're talking about de new development in
Grand Marray. So I feel confident that we can learn from this process and um that that development agreement will help us all learn the questions we could have asked the last a year ago
and we wouldn't have to be here a year later. Right. Thank you, Commissioner Hawkins. And so or sorry Johnson sorry my my mistake struck that from the record. Um so with that we have a motion and a
second. Any discussion? We've had lots. All right. All those in favor I I I All right. That passes. Thank Thank you. See this at the council. See you next week. Right. I guess you were just
described as a crash test dummy. I know that already. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks. Thanks, John. Yep. Thanks, John. Thanks, John. Yep. The voice out there. All right. Am
I got everything for me? You need for now? Okay. All right. I'm going to run. Okay. Thanks. It's only Wednesday.