WEBVTT METADATA Video-Count: 1 Video-1: youtube.com/watch?v=zB3mkhC9kIg NOTE MEETING SECTIONS: Part 1 (Video ID: zB3mkhC9kIg): - 00:00:03: Meeting Commences; Conditional Use Permit Introduction - 00:01:22: Public Comment: Neighbor Opposes Business in R1 Zone - 00:05:47: Applicant's Statement: Nail Technician's Experience & Intentions - 00:09:34: Applicant Addresses Licensing, Ventilation, and Client Volume - 00:16:59: Commissioners Discuss Zoning, Neighbor Concerns, and Precedent - 00:23:30: Public Comment: Neighbor Supports Conditional Use Permit - 00:28:10: Further Discussion: Neighbor Concerns Addressed by Commissioners - 00:29:02: Public Comment: Initial Opponent Reaffirms Zoning Concerns - 00:31:50: Commissioners Debate Conditions and Neighborhood Impact - 00:36:41: Motion to Deny Permit Fails; Second Motion to Approve - 00:38:28: Motion to Approve With Conditions: Parking, Time, Clients - 00:41:20: Vote Results: Motion Passes; Transfer to City Council Part: 1 1 00:00:03.840 --> 00:00:19.680 and you're live. >> Okay, great. Thank you. We'll bring this meeting of the planning and zoning commission of Grand Marray to order. We have our agenda before us. Any any comments or anything? 2 00:00:19.680 --> 00:00:34.559 >> No. Motion to approve the consent agenda. >> Great. Thank you. >> So moved. >> All right. >> First and second. All those in favor? I >> I All right, motion passes. We have a 3 00:00:34.559 --> 00:00:51.280 conditional use permit today for Michelle. And um do you guys have questions of your own right away? >> No, I think if there's anybody that wants to speak to it or if we've had any 4 00:00:51.280 --> 00:01:07.200 >> comments, we didn't got we got to brush off our hearing process on the page one. I guess it's been a couple of months. Uh, we didn't receive any written comments. I did receive one phone call today from one of the neighbors. >> Okay. >> Um, I asked her to send an email, but I haven't received it yet. 5 00:01:07.200 --> 00:01:22.880 >> Okay. >> She wasn't uh in favor of the request. >> Not in favor. Okay. Very good. Thank you. All right. Does anybody in the audience want to speak? Sir, 6 00:01:22.880 --> 00:01:42.240 you could say your name. Yep. when you get up there. >> Hi, I'm Tom Supernot and with Lisa Haney. Uh we live directly across the street at 410 2nd Avenue West. >> Okay. >> We have a number of questions and 7 00:01:42.240 --> 00:01:59.119 concerns regarding the proposed business at 411 2nd Avenue West. from the GM planning and zoning memo dated March 26, 2026. Quoted in the city of Grammar, a conditional use permit can be granted 8 00:01:59.119 --> 00:02:14.720 only if all of the following apply. There's four items mentioned in that. I'm going to highlight two. Number two, the use is compatible with the existing neighborhood. We believe that any 9 00:02:14.720 --> 00:02:32.720 business, not a nail salon, any business should not be in an R1 permanent residential district. No business fits into our neighborhood. Number four, the location and character of the proposed use is considered to be 10 00:02:32.720 --> 00:02:50.080 consistent with the desirable pattern of development for the area. I don't believe that permanent R1 residential district is appropriate for any business under the Graham Ray comprehensive plan 11 00:02:50.080 --> 00:03:05.599 goals and policies under residential areas. Number two states to protect property values. Having a business in an R1 permanent residential district will not protect our property value. It will do the 12 00:03:05.599 --> 00:03:22.640 opposite and decrease our property value. Stated in the application and I quote, "Services will be limited to a small number of clients per week." What is a small number? 5, 10, 30, 50. 13 00:03:22.640 --> 00:03:38.720 What guarantee will they have that this will remain small? Most businesses grow. As businesses grow, traffic increases and parking on street parking becomes an issue. Number two, as stated in the application, and I 14 00:03:38.720 --> 00:03:55.599 quote, "The scale of the business will remain small and will not change the character of the neighborhood. The business will change the neighborhood. Second Avenue West is a narrow street. A business will increase street parking and increase traffic, which will 15 00:03:55.599 --> 00:04:10.560 decrease our property values. We have already seen an increase on the street parking because we believe the business is already up and running. Also, I know this is outside of the scope of the planning and zoning 16 00:04:10.560 --> 00:04:27.919 commission, but it is a concern. Does this business meet the requirements of the state of Minnesota? Does the business meet the requirements of Minnesota administration rule 21105.0360, 0360, which requires a license from the Minnesota Board of 17 00:04:27.919 --> 00:04:47.080 Cosmetology Examiners, BCE. All technicians performing services must hold a valid Minnesota nail technician license. Does it comply with all physical requirements for nail salons as stated in admin rule 21105360? 18 00:04:47.600 --> 00:05:03.440 A question to you guys. If this business is not licensed by the BCA and the state, would you, the GM Planning and Zoning Commission, approve the application? We've talked to some of our neighbors, 19 00:05:03.440 --> 00:05:25.759 uh, Grace Flow, 4032nd Avenue West. Contact 2253970805. Val and Joe Mertz, 4072nd Avenue West, 218205405. that they also oppose the proposed business. In closing, we feel for the reason 20 00:05:25.759 --> 00:05:44.280 stated, this does not meet the conditional use permit requirements of the city of Grammar Planning and Zoning R1 permanent resident district. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Thanks. >> Anybody else? 21 00:05:47.120 --> 00:06:04.440 Um, my name is Michelle Maldonado. I'm the uh nail technician. Uh, I would like to you guys to read this. >> Oh, thank you. >> First, >> this is the original copy. >> Um, 22 00:06:05.039 --> 00:06:19.840 I have 16 years of experience doing nails. >> Um, I did stop for a while since I moved here. Then I have kids. Um, so obviously kids sometimes put past to your dreams. 23 00:06:19.840 --> 00:06:37.520 Um, I moved to this town and fell in love with it and working the brewery. I work at the at the pharmacy as a pharmacy tech also. Um, I'm a medical biller and coder. But my dreams are in 24 00:06:37.520 --> 00:06:52.960 doing nails. That's what I know to do since I was like 16 years old. And thank you so much. Um, so um I I thought that I had no opportunity 25 00:06:52.960 --> 00:07:08.000 to grow in nails in this especially in this town because it's so small, but I did see a necessity. Let's say there's a lot of people that drive to Duluth or to Canada to get their nails done. And it's 26 00:07:08.000 --> 00:07:24.080 a lot. Driving to Duth is a lot especially for groceries. Nails are another thing. Um about the concerns about traffic and parking and the amount of uh um 27 00:07:24.080 --> 00:07:40.160 clients that I will have per day. Technically I am only one nail tech. There's no way I can have more than one person at a time. I have big driveway. Uh with currently at sometimes I park our car outside sometimes just because 28 00:07:40.160 --> 00:07:56.319 there's a lot of snow accumulated in the side. So I don't have a lot of space right now. But there's like literally there's four cars that can fit there and I will never have four uh four clients at the same time. Only one because I'm only one. Um appointments cannot overlap 29 00:07:56.319 --> 00:08:10.960 either because I have two hands. Um about noises, it's really quiet. It's like a home officebased business, you know, like talking client with me, doing the nails. That's it. 30 00:08:10.960 --> 00:08:28.080 >> Uh, no loud music or anything. Um, it's going to be a low impact business. I will not have any signs showing up that there is a homebased studio there. Uh, especially because I have kids and I 31 00:08:28.080 --> 00:08:45.279 don't want anyone knocking on my door. So that will be like private. That's uh my main idea is to keep my business private and only by appointment. Um I do not have any uh plans of expanding 32 00:08:45.279 --> 00:09:00.000 because doing that will be playing against myself. Having expanding means having more nail text on my business will be having more nail texts which will be technically pay playing against me because if I'm the 33 00:09:00.000 --> 00:09:18.480 only one I'll have more clients and then yeah my goal is to provide professional service maintaining you know the the the peace and what this town is known for which is peace and everyone is friendly. 34 00:09:18.480 --> 00:09:34.080 Um, and that's my goal with everyone. Um, I don't know you guys have any questions. >> Yeah. Um, so is your does your license have any limit? >> My wife 35 00:09:34.080 --> 00:09:51.040 >> does does the license limit you in any way in terms of the number of clients you can have or anything like that? >> No, it does not limit me. Um it does as soon let's say that I get approval then I can go ahead which I actually did went ahead and sent some paperwork to the 36 00:09:51.040 --> 00:10:05.040 board of co cosmetology because they do require more lic licensing to approve not to approve but to open a business um will I will if I own it you know so with 37 00:10:05.040 --> 00:10:22.480 this I can work but I cannot own a place officially and just have an open to public. So for me to have it open in a way that I can get clients, I have to apply for a for a license which is called the manager 38 00:10:22.480 --> 00:10:40.079 uh salon manager license which I already applied and is supposed to be here in 5 days I think. Mhm. >> Um and after that I will get I have to apply to another license which is uh it will require I believe an inspection 39 00:10:40.079 --> 00:10:57.120 from B of cosmetology. >> Okay. >> But I cannot apply for that one yet. First cuz I have to wait for the five days for my license to be here. Mhm. >> And second of all, cuz I don't have a space that they will see and they will approve cuz we are under con, not under 40 00:10:57.120 --> 00:11:12.720 construction, but we're, you know, putting like the um insulating and putting the nice drywall and putting everything nice. >> Mhm. >> Cuz it's, you know, safety first, >> right? >> It has to be everything according to the safety standards and and that's what 41 00:11:12.720 --> 00:11:26.959 we're doing. >> Okay. >> Before I can apply for that, then they will not have anything to go, you know, and look at it. Okay. Are there um any rules about I guess one thing I've heard of is like 42 00:11:26.959 --> 00:11:43.120 fumes uh related to that. So that's a a good question also. Um I do not work with acrylic and monomers. Those are the ones that usually have strong smell and chemical. Mines are based on gel and they are professional grade uh nail gels 43 00:11:43.120 --> 00:12:00.320 and um products. So they even though I'm not going to work with acrylic I will have uh ventilation proper ventilation plus I also will be summer hopefully it would let me to open a little bit the windows but still I will put the uh 44 00:12:00.320 --> 00:12:16.399 ventilation that's part of the plan. Okay. >> Just in case I want to do a deep cleaning and I want to, >> you know, >> so the ventilation the ventilation will be it it kind of sounds like you're building a separate space and the ventilation will be for that room or in that room. 45 00:12:16.399 --> 00:12:30.959 >> It'll be in that room. >> Okay. >> Mhm. >> Thank you. Uh commissioners, um are you taking clients now? >> What >> are you working now? Are you are you taking clients now for nails? Not not in 46 00:12:30.959 --> 00:12:47.360 not in my house. >> Not in the property. >> Not in the property. I've been having visit, but it's because my kid, we believe that he has autism and he's getting um evaluations 47 00:12:47.360 --> 00:13:07.200 to see if he actually has it or not. >> So far, we heard that he needs uh some extra help to grow as a normal person. Okay, >> I don't know if I have questions necessarily. 48 00:13:07.200 --> 00:13:23.680 Um, what I guess what do you what would you expect? So, if you were the only person that would be doing the service, what is your expectation of like I mean I imagine it would change daily, right? Some days you might have a slow day and some days you might have a busy day. But 49 00:13:23.680 --> 00:13:39.120 what does that like? What would a busy day be? >> Yeah. busy day. Three clients a day. I think >> three >> because yeah, my services are not like quick services like if you go to a normal salon in Dulo, they work for time 50 00:13:39.120 --> 00:13:54.000 and they like to, you know, do the nails and let's go leave, pay and leave. In my case, I do uh have an idea of providing like luxury type of services. It will require time for me to do a proper safe 51 00:13:54.000 --> 00:14:09.680 manicure which it require time. Um if you want I'm sorry that I didn't br that but the type of manicure that I do it doesn't require water which mean is a Russian dry manicure. Same with pedicure 52 00:14:09.680 --> 00:14:26.880 it will be dry pedicure will not require any type of water. Um, with that said, I will have to use some implements that I have to work in the cuticle area, which means if I don't work slow enough to, you know, with care, I can hurt the 53 00:14:26.880 --> 00:14:40.399 client. There's no way I can do quick things and have 20 clients a day. That's not possible. Not even five sounds possible. So I think the the busiest 54 00:14:40.399 --> 00:14:58.079 three clients the lower zero or one. So >> and what um sorry go ahead. I was just wondering about like time of day is >> that I will work. >> Yeah. It's probably just like 8 to 3, 8 55 00:14:58.079 --> 00:15:21.120 to 5 a.m., maybe 7 a.m. I'm not sure since it's not like I have kids, too. There's not uh options for me to work after hours. Okay. >> So, and you feel like a a maximum 56 00:15:21.120 --> 00:15:37.360 number in a day. Did you say five? No, I will say four. Honestly, it's just like every client will take me around three hours. That's the the less time it will take me. >> Mhm. 57 00:15:37.360 --> 00:15:54.320 >> So, three I will say is the real a normal day. >> Okay. >> And as I said, they their appointments cannot even overlap and you know they can park on my driveway totally. I have 58 00:15:54.320 --> 00:16:22.720 plenty of space of my driveway. Okay. Yeah, the off streetet parking would be really important to have. So, if you've got it, you'll need to have that set aside for your >> What? I'm sorry. You'll have to have the 59 00:16:22.720 --> 00:16:59.759 any off- streetet parking you have Yeah. will need to be set aside if those were approved. >> Yeah. Yeah. Commissioners, any thoughts? Ben? >> Um, I I do I do have some thoughts. Um, 60 00:16:59.759 --> 00:17:16.640 >> yeah, >> it's really hard um to balance the need to preserve R1 zoning for residential exclusive use when the 61 00:17:16.640 --> 00:17:34.640 neighborhood and neighbors want to like like they're they're asking for some protections >> for that and and so that it it does weigh on me. It's It's not that I'm averse to having people use their 62 00:17:34.640 --> 00:17:49.679 property in a way that supplements income and and and allows them to, you know, to thrive because I I do want that. But, um I I do think that we have an obligation to listen to the 63 00:17:49.679 --> 00:18:07.120 neighborhood because they do know best what their neighborhood needs and doesn't need. And that's a little different than what we have approved these types of uses in the past in residential, but I don't I don't recall a time where 64 00:18:07.120 --> 00:18:30.799 we had any any conflict about it. >> Yeah. I'm trying to remember one. >> Um >> and and and it's maybe it's moved or maybe it isn't, but um I do have concerns about about that. 65 00:18:30.799 --> 00:18:51.200 >> Um this neighborhood and I did drive by today and I I inspect and looked around. Maybe you guys did too. And and >> it it it doesn't have any other businesses in the in the area. It's this is this is truly like this is the the 66 00:18:51.200 --> 00:19:07.600 definition of R1 zoning >> to my knowledge. Maybe there's some other businesses that are operating in the area that I don't know about. >> Mike, maybe you know or don't know. I don't >> I don't know of anywhere operating. >> Yeah. >> There. >> Yeah. >> So, if if if if there was an opportunity 67 00:19:07.600 --> 00:19:24.480 to to preserve that type of RO1 that this would this would be that that opportunity. And I'm inclined to to want to do that to preserve >> I I mean I think the hard part that I have with I mean I agree with a lot of 68 00:19:24.480 --> 00:19:39.280 what you're saying but I also think that like that's a hard part of um yeah I don't know. I mean like do we we probably have the same conditional use permits for people that operate whether 69 00:19:39.280 --> 00:19:56.320 it's daycarees or it's hair salons or it's those types of things, right? I mean those are all under the same type of thing. homebased business conditional use permits. And I don't know if maybe maybe I mean if I think about where some of those 70 00:19:56.320 --> 00:20:12.480 locations are, I don't feel like there's all of a sudden a like the the neighborhood becomes one that's like rampant with like, oh, okay, so this is the hair salon and nail section of the community, right? I mean, it's like they're 71 00:20:12.480 --> 00:20:29.840 Yeah. I mean, I don't know. I mean I I so so like how do you if the standard is the standard I guess that's my thing like I totally understand and appreciate what Tom spoke of and what sounds like some of the neighbors speak of but >> you know so if if you know Michelle's 72 00:20:29.840 --> 00:20:46.559 place was one block over like would it like would the standard be different and that that to me it also doesn't seem fair I guess in in a sense because if if it would work there Because I mean I Yeah. I don't know. I don't know if that is that makes does it 73 00:20:46.559 --> 00:21:02.240 make sense at all what I'm saying? Like it seems like it's a geographical situation, not even a zoning situation. >> Maybe maybe maybe not. You know, like there's there there may be other systems at play. There may be things that, you know, maybe the relationship isn't there. Maybe the yard isn't kept up or 74 00:21:02.240 --> 00:21:20.000 maybe there's already some underlying issues, you know, that that might that that that might bias a neighbor to say, "Hey, I I don't I don't feel confident that my property value is being protected." Now, how how can I 75 00:21:20.000 --> 00:21:35.120 Yeah, >> right. How can like how is that going to improve? >> I have a question. And um how obviously I'm new into all of this and how does a conditional use permit 76 00:21:35.120 --> 00:21:51.840 work is something that you can revoke to someone. it doesn't if it doesn't comply with your you know like what you say you know >> so the conditional use permit um well the name implies uh if we were to approve it there would probably be 77 00:21:51.840 --> 00:22:08.880 conditions and yes if you did not comply with those then it would be revoked yes >> okay >> and it does go to the person not to property so if you were to sell the property >> and you happen to have a spot you know we approve this with conditions and then 78 00:22:08.880 --> 00:22:24.240 you sell it to somebody who also happens to do nails like >> they would have to come in. >> But the city doesn't have the ability to do an interim use permit, right? Which is maybe what I'm not sure what the underlying premise of your question was. Like >> I just wanted to know >> go in and say all of a sudden, no, you 79 00:22:24.240 --> 00:22:39.520 can't you can't do this anymore. >> No, my question is like in a way >> I mean that that's the idea behind it. If they don't meet the conditions, we could revoke the permit. I think the trickier part is how would we know and 80 00:22:39.520 --> 00:22:54.960 what mechanism would we need to use to verify and there's a lot of we don't we're not a big city right we don't have staff whose job it is to look for and enforce this type of thing so to to put that in place thinking well we'll just 81 00:22:54.960 --> 00:23:10.880 deal with it if it becomes a problem we may not be able to very easily >> and it may not be fair if if if the neighborhood doesn't isn't on board with the process to begin with. I mean, then we're turning it into a neighborhood watch. >> Certainly wouldn't want to do that. 82 00:23:10.880 --> 00:23:30.960 >> And it's not that's not a good outcome, >> right? >> Yeah. >> Can we take you had a question or do you have >> Do you want to make >> Oh, is do you have more questions for Michelle? >> I I don't know. I'm just talking to you 83 00:23:30.960 --> 00:23:48.080 guys. I'm trying to figure out. We're now in discussions, but we can take another comment. Did you have a comment there? >> Thanks, Michelle. >> Thanks, Michelle. >> Hi, my name is Greg Pierce. I live at 409 Second Avenue West, just directly to 84 00:23:48.080 --> 00:24:04.320 the south of of Michelle and uh her planned or or the conditional use permit, I guess, that's in question. And I'm uh first off, want to say I'm very grateful for a forum like this. um because it uh it helps to answer a lot 85 00:24:04.320 --> 00:24:20.960 of questions and then sometimes raises more questions and then which leads to solutions and understandings and uh you know as if we don't ask those questions we don't know and I think I've learned some things even just here tonight you know 86 00:24:20.960 --> 00:24:37.760 just listening to uh the neighbors speak to Michelle speak herself um I have been working or talking with her about her potential use of that garage space. I'm in the construction field. I've been doing it for 40 years myself and helping 87 00:24:37.760 --> 00:24:54.880 them to understand, you know, how that space might fit and what might work together and uh you know, she's had questions about ventilation and things like that and helping her to walk through those. Um I myself am very much in favor of 88 00:24:54.880 --> 00:25:12.240 them uh working towards and getting that conditional use permit. And I think the great questions that have been raised about, you know, off- streetet parking and things like that, they're very valid. Um, and I think they have the accommodations on their property to allow for that that that parking. Now, 89 00:25:12.240 --> 00:25:28.000 it would be nice if there was a way um but as you had alluded to to you know put that condition in there if there are more than you know x number of vehicles or if a vehicle parks again hard to monitor because if somebody was you know not in favor of it 90 00:25:28.000 --> 00:25:44.640 then if you had somebody come over for just another separate get together how do you know that that's a client or not a client I would hope that the good questions that have been asked um would alleviate some of that like as to the number of clients that she could handle 91 00:25:44.640 --> 00:26:01.440 or you know do in a day, there wouldn't be people stacked up um that I could see coming of it and you know learning that here tonight um from her explanations as far as what she does and and I think that helps you know not that I had that 92 00:26:01.440 --> 00:26:16.480 concern anyway um but but I see that and I respect um fellow neighbors and their concerns for that and I think this would be wouldn't uh increase in that. Um I did speak to the neighbors directly on the 93 00:26:16.480 --> 00:26:32.960 north side and Tom and Julie Nelson um >> over the weekend and they were in favor of the project as well. So um just to show that there is some support there. I know that you know we pride I think ourselves in 94 00:26:32.960 --> 00:26:49.200 Grand Marray being a very diverse community. Um and it takes a lot to live up here. Um, and to have a diversity of income sources is important and businesses and we don't have some of those, you know, whether or not you call 95 00:26:49.200 --> 00:27:04.320 it a luxury item, but a lot of those services are hard to get, hard to find here. And I think this helps provide that and it helps a young mother um to help provide for her family by being able to, you know, step out of her home 96 00:27:04.320 --> 00:27:21.120 into her garage, which would be her new space for her nail salon, be able to work with clients for a few hours and come back without having to go and try to rent a retail space somewhere, you know, and be able to bring that income into the family. So, I think that's 97 00:27:21.120 --> 00:27:38.159 that's great. Um, we do have a lot of traffic in the area. We do live, you know, while there's truly not businesses there. I think, you know, the traffic that comes from the school and the YMCA, it's very welcome. Um, and from the church and the 98 00:27:38.159 --> 00:27:53.760 community center, those are beautiful things. And um, and I think it that the thoroughares and uh, you know, the things that control traffic there seem to work very well in in there. And I think uh three four clients a day, 99 00:27:53.760 --> 00:28:10.240 three, four cars a day won't put a burden on the system and and you know cause it to be negative. But just my thoughts, my feelings and I appreciate you considering this action. >> Great. >> Appreciate taking the time. >> Yep. 100 00:28:10.240 --> 00:28:28.720 >> Thank you. >> Can I ask a question of Tom? Is that all right? I mean, just like I mean, I don't know if you've had conversations about what the plan was. Did you know like the number and I guess 101 00:28:28.720 --> 00:28:45.600 hearing what Michelle had said if like not that maybe you're like, "Yeah, now I'm for it." Right? Because I assume you would have said like, "Actually, I'm for it now." But like does that any of the stuff the points that you brought up? I'm just wondering because we do care about what the neighbors say, you and 102 00:28:45.600 --> 00:29:02.559 the ones that you had listed off, but does that like in your sense if you have a better understanding of how the space will be used or the conditions that would be in place with off- streetet parking, which was one of your issues, >> the I mean, and I don't want to put you on the spot, Tom, but I mean, again, I 103 00:29:02.559 --> 00:29:20.480 also I'm going to their response to on street parking is their driveway has three to four cars in And when a client drives up, they're not going to pull into the driveway. They're going to park on the street. >> Sure. >> I've noticed increased 104 00:29:20.480 --> 00:29:36.320 traffic. I've seen advertisements on Facebook for her services. Uh I, you know, I I can't say that the business is running, but I see single women going into the house and coming back out. So 105 00:29:36.320 --> 00:29:54.000 anyway, but anyway, I I it's not their business. I'm against any business in the residential R1 zone. >> Okay? >> It's you want a business across the street from your house. The state of Minnesota 106 00:29:54.000 --> 00:30:11.520 requires that there should be a sign on the front of the business. The state of Minnesota requires running water, hot and cold. State of Minnesota cosmetology requires um a lot of things in there inspected by the state and another thing 107 00:30:11.520 --> 00:30:29.120 just uh there's nothing you know it has to be a separate separate entrance you have to have a restroom the restroom even if it's not in they have to have a restroom that has access into the house but it has to be separate from the house itself you look at the board of 108 00:30:29.120 --> 00:30:46.799 cosmetology look at the requirements for Minnesota. I just want to make sure all of those items are checked off. >> Those Thank you for your u concern about it. Um it does require a restroom which obviously in my in my house I do have 109 00:30:46.799 --> 00:31:04.640 two restrooms. One on the first uh you call that level and then one in the basement. Um for water it does require hot and cold water. I do have all that things. Um I can obviously at the moment I don't have it. 110 00:31:04.640 --> 00:31:20.320 >> Can I interrupt for just just a second because I just want to like in in general and I appreciate the concerns and I I appreciate the feedback and >> as a general rule in in city of Grammar we we don't take into account state 111 00:31:20.320 --> 00:31:34.880 licensing. >> We don't have a mechanism by which we can track it. We don't have an enforcement mechanism like like just >> I understand the concern. I I validate the concern like some of it safety related. We certainly want to make sure 112 00:31:34.880 --> 00:31:50.799 that that but we don't have the authority to to to even get in that conversation. >> Nor does it sound like it's really going to address your major concern because you don't want businesses in residential neighborhoods. It doesn't matter whether she meets license requirements or not. >> Yeah. Right. Right. >> Yeah. 113 00:31:50.799 --> 00:32:06.880 It's not a grid. >> Okay. >> And it's not that any business in R1. Why do we have the R1 residential? >> Because it's an or whatever. It's just any business. >> Yeah. Gotcha. >> Gotcha. 114 00:32:06.880 --> 00:32:23.279 >> Okay. >> I understand it. I I understand you fully. >> Yep. Thanks. Um Yeah. Yeah, I mean I I think where um I am having some challenges is because we have said yes in other 115 00:32:23.279 --> 00:32:39.840 circumstances that were only different because of where they were and because of supportive neighbors and that kind of thing. So, it makes it harder to say like, "Oh, in this case, we're not going to say yes." Because, you know, and I I I don't disagree, and 116 00:32:39.840 --> 00:32:56.240 it is. I'm just saying it's hard because it's not clear like, "All right." Um, you know, and I hear what you're saying, Mike, about how do we enforce our conditional use permits? But that's kind of on us. >> We haven't stopped ourselves from 117 00:32:56.240 --> 00:33:12.000 conditions on, you know, like we do put on conditions. I would just say that that if the strategy is we're not sure about this, but we'll put some conditions on it just in case, it's not a good strategy. If if you're sure about it, but you want to make sure that this 118 00:33:12.000 --> 00:33:28.640 is what they're going to do, and we just expect that they're going to and everybody feels good moving forward, that makes more sense. That's usually how we've used conditions is, yep, they've got parking. We know it's set aside for their business. We expect it's going to be that way as long as the business is operating. No one's walking out of here worried about it or or 119 00:33:28.640 --> 00:33:44.960 concerned. then then they're good. Uh hours of operation kind of the same way. You know, they say, "Well, we're going to be open till 5 and it's reasonable and we don't doubt it and there's, you know, then we're not going to go check every Tuesday and make sure they're not open after 5." If we think we need to do 120 00:33:44.960 --> 00:34:02.399 that, we probably just should say no rather than put a condition on it. >> Sure. >> I you know, and and I I understand what you're saying and yes, yes, it's been allowed. Yes, we have allowed business and residential use, right? Um, and back to my original was I don't recall a time 121 00:34:02.399 --> 00:34:21.359 that we that we did that knowing that there was a a vocal group in the immediate area that was opposed to it. Mhm. >> I don't recall us us, >> you know, in in fact, I remember several 122 00:34:21.359 --> 00:34:36.960 times where we did defer to the neighborhood to to kind of adopt and accept what was happening inside of neighborhoods. We've made many concessions over the years to to keep those the vitality in the community and 123 00:34:36.960 --> 00:34:52.399 those neighborhoods intact. And um and that's where so that's the that's the differentiator for me for me personally is yeah >> like we have >> we have people that that that have lived 124 00:34:52.399 --> 00:35:07.680 there want to continue living there don't want the business >> that's >> it's not a casual comment when when when Tom says would you want one across the street I I don't know the answer to that 125 00:35:07.680 --> 00:35:23.440 right I I I can't I do have one across the street from Broadway, right? That has and and it's it works out and I was I was okay with it, right? Had I not been okay with it, >> right? >> Had it been a negative impact to me, 126 00:35:23.440 --> 00:35:39.280 >> I would like to know that I had some support, >> right? I guess in this case though, we can see that's not all No, it's a split >> to some degree and like we don't we don't have numbers. We can't say well this this this and this and we didn't 127 00:35:39.280 --> 00:35:54.240 take a vote >> but it does seem like there is pro and con. >> So um as a matter of formality regardless of what this board decides it does go to the city council right so we 128 00:35:54.240 --> 00:36:09.520 only make recommendations we don't set policy >> right >> so if it's approved or denied it still gives you an opportunity to present your case and disagreement to the city council meeting. So, just as an FYI. >> Yeah. 129 00:36:09.520 --> 00:36:24.880 >> I don't know whether the city council will be taking people's cases presented at the meeting that's typically done here and not there. But I mean, I guess it's up to you guys if that's what the city council >> Well, I just would imagine if it was that it was contested enough that that would be >> Yeah. 130 00:36:24.880 --> 00:36:41.280 >> And we've definitely seen >> a few times where Yeah. >> it starts here, goes there, and further discussion happens. Yeah. Um >> well, I'm going to put a motion to um not recommend 131 00:36:41.280 --> 00:37:02.560 the conditional use permit for Miss Mendes. >> Okay, we have a motion. Do we have a second? All right, do not have a second. I've rarely had this happen. Uh, it 132 00:37:02.560 --> 00:37:23.440 fails. Ask for another motion. >> I Any other motion? >> Well, I was expect I mean I guess I was expecting you to you listening to your conversation, I was expecting you to second his motion. >> No case. 133 00:37:23.440 --> 00:37:40.720 >> No, I No. No. Um, I guess I'm thinking that I feel like we we've said yes other times, other places. I guess that's not this one. Um, and 134 00:37:40.720 --> 00:37:56.240 and I don't know. I mean, I I I feel like when we look around town and think about the inhome businesses that are happening, I feel like this falls in line with that. And I feel like this is 135 00:37:56.240 --> 00:38:12.000 how people have made it here. They've put up an ADU and rented it out and made that happen along with doing whatever else they were doing. And we've all had millions of jobs to try and make it work. And and I do feel like we can put on 136 00:38:12.000 --> 00:38:28.960 conditions and I don't feel as negative about it. like I'm I feel like no this from what I'm hearing it sounds pretty um clear to me that that well the conditions that I was thinking about like you know time of day and off streetet parking that kind of thing that 137 00:38:28.960 --> 00:38:45.920 seems like things that we can limit and know something about like we can see the driveway we can see where they can park and we can have some idea of when people are coming and going not 100% because it's only one but to my mind I feel like there is 138 00:38:45.920 --> 00:39:00.960 room to approve. So I would I would make a motion to approve >> with conditions >> with conditions. >> You want to list those conditions? >> I do. >> All right. >> All right. And those conditions that I would propose, and I'm open to others, is the off- streetet parking be 139 00:39:00.960 --> 00:39:18.320 available. Um meaning that if you've got room in that driveway, it should should be clear for for people to park. Um and that there is a limit of I think you said three o'clock which I feel like is a fair time to be done by 140 00:39:18.320 --> 00:39:35.920 um and those were the two I was thinking about as conditions any but that would be my motion and my condition >> number of clients at a time as a condition. >> Okay. So, one at a time, it seems like 141 00:39:35.920 --> 00:39:54.720 we could limit that. >> Yeah, I would uh the only thing I guess I would say to that is that um the not if there's available off- streetet parking, but you make it sounds like if there is a possibility for 142 00:39:54.720 --> 00:40:11.119 >> Oh, yeah. No, I meant like you you must I meant it as a must. So, not like you must have. I mean, I have off street parking in my house, too, but I also have a kid with a car and a couple work. You know what I mean? It's like there's no >> or off street parking in my somebody pulls up, they have to park on the >> Well, that's always a kind of a goofy 143 00:40:11.119 --> 00:40:26.400 you like and I I understand the need to to to put that in the language. But, you know, if taking a car out of the driveway, putting on the street so that there's room for somebody else to park in the driveway is like >> I don't know the situation. We we do have space for at least four cars and 144 00:40:26.400 --> 00:40:41.920 you know right now during the day there's always two cars. My wife is always working almost 12 16 hours a day. Um so there's always realistically if there's two cars there's always space or 145 00:40:41.920 --> 00:40:59.119 two. It's just there is a bank of snow that we are not you know >> right >> for the drift of snow there >> I think I think what would >> that cannot be fixed you know >> okay so I think what I would ask for is 146 00:40:59.119 --> 00:41:20.240 a is a delineated space >> dedicated >> that's a dedicated space for anybody who would be there >> with those conditions are second. >> Okay. Motion and second. All those in favor I 147 00:41:20.240 --> 00:41:35.839 >> I >> no on the condition that I I don't I don't believe that it's compatible use with the existing neighborhood. >> Okay. Motion does not pass. >> No, >> it will pass. >> It passes >> even though we're three. 148 00:41:35.839 --> 00:41:51.359 >> You are the only three members of this board. Two votes is a >> is considered the quorum >> is is of the majority. >> Okay. >> Yeah. You guys can talk about it at city council. >> Yeah. >> All right. Well, this will move on to the city council and that'll be 149 00:41:51.359 --> 00:42:03.760 >> next Wednesday. Next Wednesday. >> 6:30 in this room. Okay. Thank you. >> Thanks, guys. >> And I'll be here at 6:30. >> Thanks all you guys for coming. Yep. >> Thanks for talking down.