meting to a point where at our next board meeting you're comfortable enough saying yes let's move forward um I shared some information previously uh about why again it's about meeting student and family needs in our
community adapting to the landscape around us that's that's here uh and really again online learning's been part of the Minnesota Landscape for over 20 years now uh ensuring that we have consistency accountability and rigor in in programs
we're affiliated with or that our students are accessing and then also increased enrollment and um while there are programs in our state that are really targeting um know recruiting and recruiting and recruiting our Focus
we've talked about it so far is about retaining and returning our own students and while we continue to emphasize our face-to-face options goals not to grow this to be you know enormous uh we still have a lot of people that believe including myself that having kids in
front of face tace teachers is uh the best for most kids and so we're going to continue to prioritize that but don't have this option I shared this data with you previously uh home school on the left we're averaging 23 of grade middle SCH
in the middle they're online about nine to 10 a grade total over 30 kids per grade that are these our resident kids that are not being served currently by our current offering uh so we've had discussions uh
with Union leadership starting in January so this goes back a few months now and of saying hey we're exploring this um I met with secretary staff on February 5th to share the idea kind of where we're at brought it to meet and
confer the edmin teacher meet confer on the 25th and I'll work through those uh those meetings um we've kind of after doing some landscape surveying identified imagine
at genuity as a partner uh that we feel comfortable with they serve a lot of schools in our state especially schools like ours uh and they've also helped schools transition from uh kind of
a a program where schools can take ownership more and more and have the school district teachers pick up more and more of the teaching as they are ready now where's home for I imagine uh
they have offices in the cities thank you and so you just mentioned that that the local staff would be able to um fill those positions when they're ready is that something that I'm sure at some point Y yeah the with our targets at this point being you know four to five
five to six kids per grade we don't have scale to do that yet but what's happen with this company over time is they start trans as the program scales and settles in and you start are able to identify where kids are coming from local teachers pick up more of the
teaching dues and they provide training and how to Be an Effective online teacher I think one of the things that we're still struggling with is some um discomfort maybe about teaching online because of people's experience
during Co and you know one of the things that was really exceptional about that is in many cases they were teachers were trying to teach kids that were both sitting there in front of them and online and that made the experience that
much more difficult so um understandably there's some reticence to jump into this and this cover comes from Union just their own yeah from teaching staff yeah yeah we heard that when I met with the secondary staff on the 5th and some
other individual conversations people because of how challenging that was uh our goal is to have local teachers take over as the program builds I think that's important that not only gives you know our kids connections with our teachers locally it also is a better
model of our ability to react sustain uh I mentioned our aim is to have 50 to 60 kids in the fall across the the board so just taking a little bit more of a look at what is this what this looks like at the
elementary both uh this program is entirely asynchronous so just from a vocabulary standpoint that means that um that the learning and the teaching isn't happening at the same time necessarily so it's it with covid we
predominantly had live teacher live you know teaching happening this is asynchronous so there's homework that's done independently at the elementary it looks a little bit different where there's some um not only videos but also there is uh scheduled times when they
can interact with a teacher um on the right hand side was from their site so this is uh phonics consistent with the approach we're using we don't have any materials on our face to face that look like this but the approach is
still based on structured Mo and Fs how how closely does a curriculum follow our inclass CR yeah I would say it's not it's entirely different it it's
aligned with the standards but it's not so so it it might be very difficult for someone to transition in and out let's say a third of the way in to the school year yeah I would say it would be no
different than a kid transitioning in from another District right yeah but but yeah okay yeah it wouldn't be like a seamless that it wouldn't be a seamless it wouldn't be something you would be willing that you would do more than once a year let's say or something it's not
something you wanna that's totally accurate yeah you wouldn't want to be at a spot where somebody's BS are back and forth be best um I'll talk about some of the embedded support Tools in a minute when I get into the uh how they're structure
it's pretty you know what you'd see similarly to what our kids in face Toof face would be getting language arts blocks science blocks um some arts and crafts LED social studies math so a pretty similar music recorders that's
what we do so similar to some of the things that we do um in our elementary program just pick and choose um uh course catalog there might there would be like limited choices so like
they might be able to choose artart level one or art two crafts the one um so there' be limited choices there they wouldn't have choices about language arts and science and math built got
it and we would we would just be starting with kindergarten through fifth i' like to this isn't something that we would offer for K through 12 is K12 okay I'm sorry I was just looking at the fulltime it's only full time K through
five so you can't be a part-time Elementary you're either fully on line or you're fully here okay um this is kind of blurry but it's an example an example of what a schedule so kind of working
through semester one blocks so that's simp to what us to face to face with again there's not times written here because it's not bound by time per se at least all the time there are offline workbooks too
that uh will be provided so these are pencil paper workbooks uh for practice and again these will be um be materials that the student be doing in
in collaboration with their teacher uh and their parent at home the uh the they use the term learning coach so it's kind of like the idea that there's somebody alongside you at home um who's making sure you're a
task working through the materials how much has this been done with the youth you know k k through six I mean answer that question is actually
doing I get Matt I've told you my concerns I mean I I'm I'm really nervous about this I mean our state our nation fell way behind education wise through Co we learned we
weren't ready for it then now hopefully we learn from it but I I really in my mind I I'm struggling with this you know I don't want to see I mean I I see it as an opportunity for us to keep enrollment
up but I don't want to sacrifice quality of education at all I think I think we would be really really doing an injustice if we we allow that to happen I would say the option is we've got a student that's
studying at home or we have a student that's uh online with us I think that's the comparison it's not taking somebody out of the first grade class and putting them into though that is possible but I I think more of the strategy is to take
those uh those Wei ones that are homeschooling right now get structure I think that's the mindset that you you really have to be to is that this these students aren't here now yeah you're trying to get them online somewhere else
and we don't know what they're doing online or they're homeschooling and we don't know what they're doing um zero idea but in my mind when we do take them on in my mind I have an expectation yeah
a level of performance that we expect and we're going to do our everything we can do to to make at least is then now I I hear you I hear you that's the thing that I get worried about because right now when that
student comes back to us in fourth grade are they fourth grader been online somewhere else I don't know what they've been doing yeah I'm not trying to throw shade on any other programs I'm just saying we don't know um there's no data
that's provided to us um there'll be data that's provided benchmarking data that's provided to us about how they're doing throughout the year reading in math that's really important then at least know okay kids are making progress here uh right now we don't get that they
participate in ncas yes so we would have the ability to monitor performance of online stud versus our in class room students yes and make some sort of correlation yep and right now we don't get that like H
school student don't take MCAS um and online students take MCAS in the district that they're taking MCS so that could be one measurement of success of true so there's two companies that I'm familiar with this particular one and then Minnesota Connections Academy and
Minnesota Connections Academy has been around since 2005 just from looking up because I I've known they've been around for a while but this one just looking it up has been around since 1998 um not that that makes anybody feel any more cozy about the situation and what we're dealing with but um
um my children through covid went through Minnesota Connections Academy and they were taking all of the the standardized Texs they had to do the MCAS they had to be had to travel to duth to do Public Charter School yeah yep and it's a it's but um but it's
difficult Tom you're not wrong um if if kids are not provided with um an adult that's in their home that is willing to put in that kind of effort right then we do you're I completely understand what you're discussing right now as far as
your your concerns because if they don't have somebody that's there that's willing to put that kind of effort then they they they have the potential to fall behind and then how you know how do we figure that out and make sure we're catching up with them how do we intervene exactly what's our intervention plan when we see that you
know what I mean because my my concern is is that the curriculum doesn't match so there's not like you can step to a hybrid where you say hey you need to do some courses maybe in person or
something and you know there's kind of you're here or you're there right now it's just yeah I mean I'm yeah I'm concerned that we could see the results aren't going where we want how do we how do we correct it yeah let me pause here
a little bit all right so um the the these are things that are in place Curr currently or and will be in place with a program like this one so starting in the upper left there is an instructor
um and somebody who's providing them support as well as the on-site Mentor for us that on-site Mentor is uh Andy he's in the audience today for secondary so he would be a person or at the elementary Tom Clayton would be a person
that gets communication if student has fallen behind so we have somebody and again we don't get that now like if like that's again the thing that I just keep come thinking about are these kids that
are out there that live down the street literally could be living down the street and we're not we don't have connections with them now so our on-site mentors will be um part of that process of knowing how kids are doing and then there's tutors
available uh to folks too I like this one piece right here um especially since we just learned a little bit about it today um the exceptional education coordinator provides an additional layer of support to teachers and schools offering online courses to students who have an IEP or 504 plan or our homebound
special education coordinators will review student documentation and work with the teacher of record to make accommodations and modifications to the curriculum as needed I read that out loud so then that way people hear what that means and what why I'm saying it because that's a big deal
because that still falls in the realm of what Tom is talking about with concerns like how do we know how do we intervene how do we provide that for these kids that would potentially be using this service I guess I just look at myself and even at my age now I don't have the
discipline yeah to do on yeah I'll just say that I mean I mean I think there's a there is a very there are people who can there are people who can't but but I can tell you I can't and that's why I'm saying it's
very important to have that adult person within their household that is available to do that because they're you're not wrong if they you know the older secondary might be able to but you know sometimes those those little ones all the time the little ones will need extra
help extra guidance they won't be able to just do this by themselves so so uh one of the things that we've been working through and there's the the part of what I'm adjusting to as well is that there is a lot of there are a lot
of decisions kind of program design decisions that need to be made still about you know um grading like that's something we determine so there is a
lot um how special ed works is a decision that works maybe isn't the right one but what our role is in special education that's up for discussion and decision so what Anna
Lloyd's role is uh what her role is what our staff's role is um that's up for discussion we can kind of doler as much want or need them to do so there's a lot of that that that we will be making
decisions on uh how we when we intervene de Tom uh when is it is it when x amount of time and that will be spelled out you know in the handbook how how does uh how does this
company obviously they're a for-profit type business I'm assuming um how what they get a percentage of our student enrollment or how how does how is it structured there any bonus type structures or performance per well I'd
like to see performance lack of performance t or something um um because that's one of the things I want to talk about um we'll get into the F in a minute um I
think one of the things that you know Tom you're been thinking about your comments and I think that there are people if you go back to your slide that talked about the home school there are people in our community that home school for different reasons one of those reasons may be that they don't want
their kids in that school building right but they don't really it doesn't maybe matter to them what their actual curriculum is this gives them an opportunity to be in our kids in our programs just with them doing the
teaching right yeah I think you know the to to describe or characterize homeschool as a population is about impossible is really impossible to do you know we have some students that are homeschool and they're you know
they're off the charts they're on their they're on a path to getting an AA at home with homeschool I mean they're they're doing that um very engaged families and we have and so like little like family engagement a big
Continuum right and then I think there's like another Continuum from a like um uh motivation reasons right like you said like in some cases it's about extreme anxiety about stepping foot in a
a public building in some cases it's about you know politics in some cases it's about you know worldview and some there's all kinds of reasons um so it's really really challenging to talk to to talk about
that this slide from them talks about one of the things they do that uh is a weekly progress update that I think is useful back to your point Tom about checking in and then that Benchmark testing I mentioned for math Anda to make sure we're catching kids at line
providing support um let's see at the secondary level it's a little bit different it's for part-time so that starts in that sixth grade year there are hundreds of course offerings um and I didn't print off the list but in part
because one of the decisions that we can make is how broad of a course catalog to provide but there are hundreds and hundreds of courses that kids can take everything from what's pretty basic uh that we might see you know biology
algebra things like that but also as specific as some healthc care careers courses um accounting computer programming um Agronomy some very very specific on for kids that have very
specific interests so um really really big catalog and to decide how to approach that there are schools that limit that catalog down and then there are school and districts that pretty much leave the whole thing wide older
um the more nuan the classes the more I mean just like our own course catalog here if we were to offer a course in you know Latin American artists we might only get four kids that register for it
and not be able to run um so there's a it's good to have a broad catalog but you want to be to rub your off too um their courses are all all J with NCAA which is important for students
that are going that route need that credentialing um so our courses if we have students and Market probably got Dar Andy in the may you want to talk about this for a minute why this is important why NCA NCA credentialing is
important put you on the spots yeah well if if courses are not approved NCAA it's it's kind of like they don't count they may count towards credit and graduation requirements however if um the student
wants to participate at the next level courses have to meet those specific requirements so not every course is NCAA approved so those are things that you know our counseling department we are very mindful
especially we have student a the next l do we actually have any in-house that AR I'm just curious some courses yeah oh yeah oh really so it so it can be quite extensive that aren't there
right easiest example like a yearbook class can't be counted as English credits okay elected without English credits need to take specific English class okay so it's kind of okay any class that might be considered
remedial wouldn't count you know remedial English you know it's not going to be NC gu just didn't realize it that sense well we have to then go through the catalog and say what counts
which somebody will have to do y um they uh imagine has offerings that are advanced placement that's what AP stands for so we offer college in the schools and our face-to-face high schools um and those courses upon
successful completion result in transcripted credits uh advanced placement courses work differently and that you have to take an exam a standardized exam that's created by um the advanced placement
organization you have to pass I think it's a three or better ticket credit is uh it's a test for credit but once you do those courses can be recognized by colle mentioned uh previously that um
these students would be 318 students um so they' be entitled to the benefits of that that come with that and they could graduate from Grand Rapids High School or B forth and participate in Grand Rapids activities and events stay
connected the way that our current online policy reads that you'll be considering for approval at your next meeting are the students would be um graduating from the school if it's a resident student they would be
graduating from the school and it want to participate in the school that they would that they geographically would be attached so I in Marcel um my diploma would come from
big if it was a student student fulltime in the school they would need to um declare what school they attaching to a so this just allows them to attach
to up their schools they don't have to really a no so let's say we had a student was going to go online and they lived right a block away from here their
diploma would come from Grand Rapid high school and they would participate in Grands basically um if they lived in Marcel it would be big for but they could open en roll but they have to follow the terms of open enroll
they're ineligible for a year whatever for exactly whatever Els exactly same so as students they would follow the same handbook right that's right yes
and there would be an additional kind of ancillary handbook too that would be unique right with respect to behavior um I don't know let's see if there's
any Julie can you click on the top one so just to give you a sense of what syllabi look like so this is an example of courses maybe just pick one in the math I like math pick like ALB two or something in
there so the syll I all look consider assistant um spells out in there what the course objectives are there a course description student expectations and then this grading piece
we will be weighing in on customize that or and unlik PSO or something we would have our teachers and counselors and stuff would have access to so if somebody was failing or they were on the verge we would know could communicate
with parents yeah so that would be one of the things Andy would be doing as on is sort of like monitoring um and again right out of the gate our goal is 50 kids 60 kids districtwide we're talking about you know if we were to hit our Target
there'd be uh 30 kids total maybe that and you would be how many kids do we currently have in school um 300 my first SL you want to pull up the the slide
deck again so I mean part of the part of the inviting of this to is it's somewhat asynchronous we you know so student could let's say if they had a
job and they work Thursday all day they could do their schoolwork on Friday and Saturday right you know or I mean that's the the theory right you know in the draw um and I'm trying to think devil advocate here what if you have those
student athlet here who you know when their grades are slipping I think what is it is it still in the state where if you don't maintain a certain grade point you can go on probation where the teacher has to sign off every week do they still have that program I don't
know making sufficient progress is the is the kind of the standard line school has a different process works yeah we run it through our activities OB okay but but anyways and I'm trying to play a little devil advocate here I see that
student athlete go in this program right and push stuff off right you know how long do you let him push it off before you say you know you're not playing in sports until you your together yeah I'm
not trying to no the the homework and the assessments all have deadlines just like in a face Toof face class so they still have a hard deadline on everything that's yeah it's by asynchronous it doesn't mean that they can wait till the last day to turn everything in okay they
still have to hit timelines uh as they go through that's also part of how attendance is sort of monitored is are they engaging staying logging are they logging in are they doing work regularly and if there gets to be a gap between last time anybody's seen a touch point
with them now then that starts to raise some Flags about tenants do we have treny is that the same thing there is online treny can get involved with online students the thing how do we currently handle PSO when we don't know what the grades are and their student
athletes and their F because we have quite a number that if we don't we can't right so I mean we already have kind of that Pitfall is already sitting so this is less of a pitfall than PS right we would have more knowledge of how kid do
have yeah can you click on that other link um one of the things that I asked was you know how do we know can you just click through on like English language arts there
um yeah go to standards alignment uh yeah pick uh I don't know just pick any of those that one right there so back to the standards if you and and I'll be honest we don't have this for our face tace grou so what
this lists on the left is the standard down to the number unless maybe Darren and Andy will tell me we do um but this breaks the curriculum down or the breaks yeah breaks the
lessons in curriculum down by standard to show this standard is being meted as this part of this this activity is meeting the standard this activity is meeting the standard this activity is meeting the standard and they're doing that for every single class and it looks
the exact same for all of so it's you know if I can't read it it's 11.13.1 that's the that's the what the standard is called and then yeah you can see the standard in the middle that's what the standard is if you pull it up
on the internet um Minnesota academic standard that's what it would [Music] say so there's a lot of work that's gone into that because part of it is um if
you we not applying to be a supplemental program and that's where if you're a supplemental program in Minesota you can serve non-district students part-time so that's where kind
of like like uh infinity online right so one of our students current that's a good example of a supplemental program one of our students can take a course in at Infinity online there're still our
student we have a tuition agreement with them um but in order to become qualified as a supplemental program Infinity online has to send to the state that kind of information how do
these courses meet the standards how do they have to send sylli things like that so and I would imagine the intent of that is kid doesn't take a course in Rapids and take virally the same course
online but yet get credit for something else right avoid double up and get dou right um so that's just kind of on the standards and curriculum side
um there's online tutoring I can't remember if I mentioned this last time um but there's online tutoring available you can see the schedule at the bottom there's just a little button that the student clicks and it brings it to someone that can help them um and that
can look like you know bring up a white L it can be a chat um to get help this is at the elementary level or the high school I believe those chats are recorded So a student can access those later our local connections I mentioned
uh Clayton and Andy that's who will be kind of being point on the student side liaison side and Christina is our connection in moment and she would be who's working closely imag
inity I'm managing that partnership um this is just an example of some of the guided notes that students can be working through as they're in a lesson this is this is just a Matt you said a little while ago that
you met with your teachers you met with the um meting conerve what's the consensus fam decision um and every level it's sort of been like the sense that I've gotten is we an
acknowledgement that something has to happen here I think there's cautiousness about you know is this going to take jobs away from our local teachers um I think we've had that before when we had online learning start
here 20 years ago there was concern about that that never came to fruition um when we started with telepresence and I get it right um when we started tele presence there
was a concern about it taking jobs uh and that that didn't come through that didn't happen that time either some cases it was a way for us to keep people whole I think there's a possibility for that here too at some point where we're able
to make people whole um we have to again we can't do that with three kids we can't be home we have three kids but um so I'd say there's apprehension about that and then there was just kind of like a sense
of maybe that's the third thing the first thing was an awareness that something has to happen here second is an apprehension about jobs third is um just a concern about not wanting to get into this right now uh because of
the the baggage that Co and virtual learning created and she's here Road Rash road rash from I don't want to put you on the spot and if you don't want to be on the spot you don't have to be on the spot but um I mean do you think I just characterized our
conversations fairly I would say I think that um the concern is the JS that's replace people um but there's also some that feel overwhelmed too at
this time to take it on and I mean I I've been emailing peers and stuff and letting you know I'm not a not against it you know I'm not for I mean I'm I'm still in the middle I kind of still have questions um that's just one of the things I need to have more conversations
about if teachers do take on down Road what's like and I have been in many meetings about this to talk about our contract really doesn't have anything we've worked on it with the different things so I guess it's just um
sure good job and now we Some Cuts and then is there I guess my thought too is if there would people I'd like to see I have not asked you all um but are there people that would be willing to try it you're kind of hearing
mostly from I feel the meetings I been in or the people who are apprehensive and kind of scared or don't want to take something else but there might be people out there that be like I'm ready for a change I'm ready to get out of the classroom you know I would be
willing granted like you can't have one three kids but I know at one meeting we talked about if someone might be going to one two grades and they do this class as class so I guess that would be what I would like to see is just get more
voices from the teachers um not just the same VI and I'm not against them I know that they have it but I think there I think they got a lot not a teacher there's got to be some that would be willing to say and way more techy than
me but um then I mean my special head hatch that's concerns me too is the SP fit that in I hear that SP teachers like right I'm trying to service the kids in the room and now I got to do or
whatever you know so it's just new like I said I'm not against it just have questions I think it would be you know a useful thing to have some kind of an agreement with the as this scales you know this
year again I think if we have 50 or 60 kids we will have hit our goal uh wouldn't be at a place to be to do anything significant there but I think this year might be an opportunity is we're kind of watching this play out to have some kind of an agreement or hey
when we get into this place where we have scale like what can that look like because I think it's in everybody's best interest I believe to have our local people uh doing the work
um one so um and it's not just teachers too so there was a rally get together you know last week you talked thep presidents like their thought is we think about it like like if class gets
cut well that's then too so it's not just coming from the teachers um just people are changing hard and so you know and I like that idea I think like if this does move forward I a lot of
discussion you have ground work already speak for something else but I think we can just definitely talk have it place of what's the number like do we have people that are willing to do it and take it on I mean like thatt said like
if someone's going to get cut to a point8 what if someone wants to do so they could stay at one you know take on so I don't know how to get that information something I can I just think
there's I have two one online teaching and classroom teaching are two different skill sets and as someone who's been both a online
learner a significant portion of my graduate work and a face-to-face learner they are different you can you might have a really awesome classroom teacher who does not have that same magic in an online class and you might have someone
that everybody finds really dull in a classroom who has magic I want to make sure we keep that in mind when we think about this because it's kids at the center and while I understand jobs are important this is about the kids are currently not serving
and we need to get them back and so those are kind of my two pieces of thought if if we can serve them to the best of our ability with local folks I think that that's the that's the game but the kids are still at the
Cent and so those are kind of my two as someone who spent a lot of time in Worlds yeah well there's there's a whole bunch of kids out there doing this right now right and the difference right now is they're not connected to our district right and we had some teachers
who were awesome during Co they were I mean they were coming up with cool things and sharing I mean they were fabulous so I don't want to say we don't have it it's just that the skill sets are different I think we you know the thing for us this year is just about
getting something off the ground to see what see what the appetite is you we won't really know um and we'll we're GNA we have some plans and ways to get a sense but until just like right now I can't tell you with certainty how many
second graders we're going to have and I won't be able to do that until September 2nd the first day of school for sure I can't tell you how many kids are going to sign up for fifth grade trade online and I won't be able to do that until
September 2nd um and so I think after that I can tell you you know I can tell you with certainty because I know that y we're going to have between you know 200 300 fifth graders and I can get more narrow than that just by pulling up the
data because I have it I know how many fourth graders were here last year I can tell you how many until we have a year under our belt there isn't going to be a way for sure and I think that's big deal just saying that until we have a year under our vot because like Angie is
saying we don't we don't know what staff members are even interested in this we have no idea and it would be beneficial for them to see what this program looks like um is there and this might be something that you come to discuss but
is there some sort of like mock walk through for staff members to be able to see like this is what it would look like if you had the classroom if yeah there's a whole big training component to this if staff interested one of the
things do is there and then so on the opposite end of that is there like a um you know something for um the adults of our students that yeah orientation yeah there is so they would be able to see like this is what it would look like
if your kid had X Y and Z CL yeah there's your parent portal so you can take you know advantage of that there's ability to do that almost is it um when you sign up with this
organization is it a one-year commitment threeyear commitment is it like how does that um you talking about for students or just for the agreement that I remember was one year what I'm wondering the reason I asked that is could we
proactively establish some sort of tool G for what success looks like so we can then say at this point we're going to assess the program and decide if and put that out in front so that people know that when we if we make this decision that this is what's going to lead us to
say yes this is working for us atol I guess to kind of add to that I mean I hear you know we're trying to offer something and draw and students that we're losing right now part of my
concern is how many existing students are we going to see shift over there and not be successful right you know and and and that's a concern for me right now and is there any way where we can say doesn't seem fair but to say we only
offering it initially to bring people in you know I don't know um doesn't seem fair right and doesn't seem but I but I because what happens to that one kid that switches and is successful maybe they're not as successful in the classroom but that offers them something
that they've been tied to because maybe they want to swim or maybe they want and they don't they don't really thrive in a classroom but they might Thrive and we would take that away from them that's my question I hear you there I do I I guess I'm just I am really
concerned about failing our kids on this to be honest and not not giving them the quality of Education that I like Dave idea is that uh set up
some criteria uh and evaluate it and say it did what we thought it would do or it was an absolute disaster and just not just not meeting what our expectations or it's not meeting our kids expectations teachers or families or
whatever that might be we can do you know assessments or we can do some surveys for families and students that go through get feedback as well as the data from the actual kids performance and then we'd know if we lost a lot of our current students right didn't lose
but we know the enrollment right we know that we would know know where the shent here now and and recognize every kid right now has the right to be online anywhere true yeah they don't need us to
do this if they decide tomorrow they're going to be online they can be online and and and I hear you but I I guess in my job as a school board member in my mind is we kids can go to school anywhere they want but if they're going to come to
Rapids we're going to provide a certain quality of Education as a certain opportunity to them that I expect right and and we're not going to sacrifice out my mind you know just to get students for lack of a better term and I'm not trying to you know I'm not trying
tole anybody or anything that right but I just think we'd be doing students Wrong by not living to that expecting that standard themselves I also think that we're in you know this 2025 we all bring to the
table our personal biases and experiences with we can just C was in as we make a decision that the world has changed it's not changing it's changed you to meet kids where they are and families where they are and that's all kids and families right like that's just
not what we're used to or what we've experience that's everything that we don't know anything about I mean and I think today's been quite an eyeopener to many of those things that we didn't know existed right we didn't know a lot of what was happening in our district or um
and so to give them an opportunity that reaches every single one of our families and adults and community members and and their children and their students um whether whatever that might look like if we have that leg up on that then I think
it's it's a plus for us because that means that like Melissa said we don't we don't know what we don't know about every single one of these students and they can all they're not all just fitting in this one little box and so if we can provide education on all levels for them then I don't know what that
looks like and I don't know what that means but I feel like that is something that I mean and it connects to Tom's point it would it's a disservice if we don't give these students everything that we can offer to make sure that they're
successful well I think it I mean there's like anything worth doing is worth do well I think it'll go back to from one of our um steamed uh retired administrators and that's if we're going to do it let's do
it yeah but let's do it right let's not just half it and then wonder why it's not um one of the other things that exists in the software we have this with up in our soft software currently put it
in or other programs that our our teachers are using currently um but it has the ability to check for plagiarism and identify prediction around whether AR artificial intelligence was used I think that's interesting wow that's was
one of my questions AI I mean I just I you know when we talk about Co AI didn't exist right and it is well I mean it's not 20 some years we just didn't talk about it as much as we do
now yeah we were much more worried about plagiarism then for sure in the school setting but yeah so there is some some soft between there so no chat GPT for those kids yeah you can use it you can't find it it's not gonna matter yeah it's
not gonna matter you can't find it you can try as long as you want to and you will not rep plagiarize something off GT won happen so there's some uh accommodations and modifications that that are part of
the process too again this is where kind of gets at Angie mentioned things we need to flash out as far as the relationship with special ad staff's
inol um all right so this is so this kind of this walks through the uh some assumptions about finances um it's
it's the model based on 65 students um the assumptions around enrollment involve estimates of recapturing enrolling home school or online kids it doesn't include any positive or negative
effects Absolut unknown it doesn't include any effect to face en that's an unknown it doesn't increase en that's um essentially we would we still are obligated under the Minnesota online
learning act to offer technology the same to face to face kit so students would have access to iPads that we would issue if they wanted them if they had their own devices they use the same is
true for homeschooling right now correct um don't believe we have to off technology they get a they get a stien they yeah they they can access some
technology which are district phe the uh I used an average revenue of $10,000 that's less than what a like a total per P would generate because there are some uh there's funding attached to a student
that is non-discretionary so for instance uh uh a student generates funds that uh through through the long-term facilities mean this all that money has
to be used on facilities so I tried to only incorporate funds that were not I've tried to only incorporate funds with discretionary the the number you can basically use for a student
$3,500 $3,500 for secondary student for $3,700 for student that's what the contract that's the Imagine engine cut to I'm sorry I missed that was $3,500
for a element a secondary student 3,700 for elementary student that's their C so so it's just a flat B flat as per there are some other models based on
and enrollment um and it gets really nuanced because if you look at different different licensing models with them you can get some fluidity that may be beneficial so for instance if a student
um if you have licens that are transferable if you had a student that leaves in April you could have that student's license assigned to another kid you're only paying for one but you're using it for two different
individuals so there are sometimes benefits to having some flexibility with that but this is generally uh how this lays out um you there is some
volume two uh it's cheaper by how many volume register you right part of it is if they uh if they have to ensure that their Staffing is what it needs to be
too so there's some minimums that they scale up uh and we'll do that too so but this kind of gives you a ballpark of how this plays out um obviously and this is beyond just having local people local
things happening um that number changes dramatically when you're using your own features uh so you're not talking about and I can't remember the number off the top of ah head you pay for their curriculum and kind of uh content
management uh you still pay for that but you're teachers that cost is down so when we're at that point I mean there's there's lots of benefit to having our own staff take this over when we're when we have the enough
enrollments to do it uh one of the benefits is financial to Tom's Point too is there like a minimum like if we don't if there's like so many students or less do we just say this really is no longer
worth the option um do we is there ever something about that I mean the no uh I was it was funny I was talking to a friend of mine at a game and uh he was asking me about this he said I said what if it was one
he said what if it was one student I said well they would get 3500 get 6500 okay so there there are so I think the in
talking to the the people that I've been talking to there are some like you know blocks of registrations or blocks of enrollments so like let's say we were to buy a 100 uh enrollments a full-time high school kid
comes out of there 12 at a time because registering for 12 classes six each semester for instance um if we use those up by November we could buy more um and then if we hit a a
threshold where there's a volume credited for that for that total volume so um I think the goal and what even indicated is like don't overshoot it to start with because there's no benefit to overshoot it um undershoot it and add to
what you need as you it could be as minimal as one student and as big as we could do one student and we have actually we we we've had students who were homebound because of medical so we've had one student
we've already had one student in the past last year this is what we needed to do was an illness or sudden you had to move somewhere for a job for but you still wanted to finish out the year could you do
that what uh so if they're collecting their 3500 per student um how do they tie it to what what's to prevent a kid from taking one and a half years worth of school in a year and
accelerate themselves or do they have limits on credits and if we wanted to allow that if we wanted to allow that that could happen okay it's really just up to us pretty much you
know they you know for all these questions and the ones to come who is going is there going to be a policy that we develop or is there going to be a guide because I think we're all asking a lot of great
questions address there is this and we're not I mean we're not inventing the wheel here they have 40 plus school districts doing now um you know does m they have a online learning policy
that's the one that you that you'll see on Monday but nothing as far as like a handbook you see does this company have a handbook yeah they I have an example one actually that he sent um Morehead actually is two years ahead of us with this they you know there are districts
that are eight years ahead of us that started with real small using you know the curriculum using other teachers that now like oton and Northfield are collaborating they're using whole ton of teachers uh to do it
they have a full-time principal who runs the program makes their job um Morehead is like two years ahead of us so they're still using um teachers but they're talking now about like you know what is transition
so they have handbooks what is a typical transition years I he didn't say this would be a I know you said that they would graduate right now it's high schoolage here right um but is this a
different School per se meaning yeah so like could this be I know today in correct from wrong it's correct but if a kid is facing expulsion they have to go they may have to go rid district is this an opportunity yeah for them yeah so if we
had a student who was expelled we could all uh we could enroll them in the school or they we could exclude them from a school change their placement so they can enroll on their online school um and then that will be be a good
option for us because they again we're obligated when we expel a student to make sure they're education so this would be an option but it is a it is a kind of like how we have casset is an
elementary site in our school district um and West Rapids is an elementary site in our district this would be a a site District like big yeah be like
big S then essentially who would I mean you're talking like Morehead has a principle that runs all this who no uana does oh okay because they have they have and I don't know how many hundreds and
hundreds of kids they have because they have two in oon is a little bit bigger than us northfield's about our size so they've got 9,000 students that they're serving between those two school districts they've got scale built now to
a point where they're they have they can really dedicate somebody's fulltime job to do we have an idea or is that even on like on the table at this point who that is it going to be a handful of different
people that it's Clayton and Andy oh you did I'm sorry that's true I apologize three and Christina yeah Morehead has um assist assistant s maybe that might be a
meeting theirs so I'll have to talk to assistant s uh or was I think it's important I mean to your point it's really important to have some yeah you know to call and talk to and andy'll be stepping away from the
alc here so he can be focused on this inste so you're looking yeah so um I'm looking for uh at the next board meeting really I'm just looking for
uh action to green light this continue the work enter into an agreement um build that handbook um continue to do that we have uh
um we have some ideas about some Outreach the spring yet with families uh virtually and also face to face to give families an opportunity to learn more about what this could look like but there's a lot of work that needs to get
done and inflat N schedu WN day to kind of start hashing some of that out yeah what other questions do you have I know it's I mean there's a little bit of leap of faith here need that I think to
the point da some indicators around academics to student feedback that's really that's something that's not hard so so of the schools in Minnesota that are
doing this say with this program they they all have to establish just what you described a separate campus for lack of a better separate facility so do they have good clear stats that show the performance of that versus their other
facilities we receive that I could I could check requests out of them I I you know I'd just be kind of curious how how they're performing their other facilities I
mean all right I'll get uh I'll get both uh I'll get see what I can get from Morhead and Nana both those are I said I think similar Old State Regional kind ofish
type one's kind of getting going one's been doing it a while yeah yeah and I obviously it be interesting to see those how those numbers compare to each other too right I mean anything there's a learning curve right I hope you're do
better at it as you do it right I mean I I I appreciate the fact that we're we're looking to solve a problem in the district right we're looking to gain these students back that we've lost through some way I mean I do appreciate
that I just want to make sure yeah we're doing it yeah trying to I mean you know it helps us in a number of ways yeah we definitely don't want to make it seem or we don't want to act like
amance yeah think we will lose more if we don't do something I mean that's the other side of it it's not like you know the only problem we have is what we currently see there are others who have already
considered moving this but for different reason um apprehension whatever haven't but at some point they get to a place right as a parent you get to a place yeah there was an article today about um I think it was today in the
msba media tick about inre home and going back to Melissa's Point earlier part of this is about providing opportunity to students and and that's that's a big part of our role as the board these are our kids and
um it's kind of incumbent on us find opportunities for kids that might not have them right and I would just right for many of us who are on the board we heard people who failed during Co we also heard stories of kids who
succeeded um because of the change yeah uh in spite of the change whatever that might be um but but both are true yeah and so how do we create that reality um for all of the kids in our
district um as people become more Nomad yeah for lack of a better word I mean more people would love to travel with their children and still graduate because eventually they will come back but when their kids are little they don't necessarily want to make sure
they're in school from 8 to 3 anymore I mean we've seen that too the states talking about um they want to be able to take their kid to the Smoky Mountains or up to some of the cool beaches or whatever it might be but
they want to travel and get them to learn while their out a book right you know I mean you hear that and more and more young people are doing that and not necessarily buying a house yeah I mean those are all true here as much as they are anywhere else I think it's
interesting you know to your point a little bit Mark um it would be interesting it it would have been interesting to know and hear what the dialogue was around the board table 30 years ago when the board was talking
about the are learn right right that was a new program then and districts had to decide whether they wanted to do this we're not required to have an LC um but I'd be curious to know and I bet it was some of the same stuff right
like what happens about this how are we going to do you know I'm guessing it was similar right it's new and different and how this going to work out um I very much Happ was one of the first districts to do that uh have an ALC so I think it
was I like Dave's approach that uh to in the water and monitor it very carefully for the first continuously for the first six months and then no it's we moving in the right direction or this was all Melissa's idea and we should have said
no on the okay blame me and you know I don't mean to bring it back to my old kids but I have one child that's two children out of my four that thrived loved online learning and then I have the other two
hated it hated it they could it didn't matter didn't matter what I did it didn't matter what I brought to them yeah they hated it and they'll tell they would walk right in this room and be like no we don't like this but then the other two would be like oh my go you guys are giving this to kids this is amazing but
so I I I get it on both ends yeah some of these kids are just they're gonna Thrive and flourish and some of these kids are GNA get there thinking that Yep this is what I want to do and they might and it might not be their thing but we won't know until we dip our little TI in
there and figure that out I guess waitor that this isn't jumping into the deep end it's like the zero right and then it will be Melissa do we see it being a k k through 12 right out of the gate or would it
make sense to try to that's kind of what we're planning beneficial to because we do have on every grade level we have those kids that would 100% benefit from having this be an option for them um you know I
think too the the you know at the elementary really the the number of of families for Which online learning really is an option is right because you have to have a family
Dynamic where some somebody can be there right so I think just like the universe of the universe of people for who it could actually work smallers naturally um and some subset of that group already
is doing it then like the questions like how many that kind of thing so that was kind of my question on enrollment is there a number but if there's not then I don't know why we wouldn't open it I mean if there was only one kid in first
grade that kid got an education and Grand Rapids that he may not have got any other questions okay um all right you want to open up next one J we ready to move
on future budget planning okay um so uh you know we're obviously in the midst of of working through reductions here for fisal 26 and uh within the next
two months you'll have a fiscal 26 budget to approve um wanted to just have a discussion a little bit or share some information tonight about future planning and things to be thinking about um we're going to take a
look at some future budget projections at I mean really kind of a high level obviously I mean you've all sort of uh seen how school funding is complicated the more questions that you have the more
there are to have um and it's kind of the rapit hole in some ways but we're gonna kind of show show show some things Carol walk through some projections that you know anything beyond March 16th or
17th whatever day it is 2025 is projection um so the further we get from today the more variability there is uh we're going to talk about balancing the budget we're going to talk
about the 2023 referendum takeaways talk kind of just get some get a sense of that all right here's gonna walk us through a few things here so I titled this slide
maybe not the best you know but I think this explains what our position has been financially for the last five years why is this so hard um we have very limited revenue streams um that we have influence
over um we have very very little local control and when you have local control you have more control over your total revenue sources um and the majority of our Revenue streets are tied to enrollment so
enrollment has been decreasing so that means our Revenue has been decreasing with expenses the majority of expenses are not tied to enrollment so if you have you know two kids lost in each grade you're not going to drop a
teacher there's just no way you can um and then our biggest expenses salaries and benefits inherently go up every year um and we basically have no control over that
um so um if you have been here a while um you have seen long range budget projections and like Matt said earlier that's what they are they're just projections and anything beyond today I don't even know what today is you know in fiscal year 25 prob will end up
because we don't have exact enrollment amounts and formula amounts and so every year we get further out our our deficit grows and it's just how School finances set up
unfortunately I've tried to put it in a simple way and I know this is not simple at all but just bear with me so General Ed basic the basic formula is basically the only Revenue that has an inflation factor in it and every year the
legislature will determine every two years they'll determine what that amount is so um two years three years ago they said it we're going to give you four and two% so we got 4% in 20 four and we got 2% no that's
wrong thank you um this year like we're just going through the budget process for next year um and it's been a roller coaster to know what our percentage is but we know it um sooner than we have in the past so we know that next year because it's tied to inflation now we
are going to get um 2.74% on the formula and the formula is also based on enrollment so if our enrollment goes down um we don't get that full 2.74% so um just you know in our in our
budget formula and our scenarios that we've been working on um we know our enrollment is going to go down um this is an even lower in um estimate than what we worked with um at least two months ago um so our basic education
formula will go up about 1.2% even with a 2.74 inflation Factor one other thing with respect to that um I just think it's worth thinking about so for years since 2023 probably
since it was was disconnected from inflation um groups have been advocating for that inflationary Factor 2003 2003 didn't get it back 2003 thank you thank you dve so going back groups have
been advocating for that inflationary connection right um and it finally happened and that's great um I think if you put yourself in the sit in the seats of the
legislature thinking about the budget Outlook that they just heard knowing that let's say in like making this um analogous to what you
your situation if there was a board policy a board policy that you can change that committed to some increase automatically uh and you are facing a big budget deficit for the foreseeable
future it's hard for me to imagine that as a board you wouldn't reconsider that policy I it it seems likely to me that that legislature will have to reconsider
that I don't want them to my group our group sups group's been one that's been lobbying hard for that for years but I think there's a a scenario that exists where that legislature has to
look at that law and go can we do that knowing that education is one of the biggest ticket items in that bu um so it it I don't bring that up to cause a stir or you know a long discussion I just
think it's important that we're at least aware that that's possib sorry oh thank you we on to the next slide please um so here's kind of the
details the the Top Line the general and basic formula that's the one tied to inflation our only funding source tied to inflation other than interest but that's minimal all the other revenues a lot of them are tied to enrollment so
when our enrollment goes down those revenues go down half our in Revenue half of our Revenue not half a big portion of our Revenue we do not get an increase with inflation and you can see kind of how that plays out from year to year and I
assumed um next year fiscal year um 27 a 3% increase in form in in revenues and expenses um because that's kind of what they're projecting right now and we can only get a 3% increase in the formula that's the max right now for
expenses from 25 to 26 this assumes you you know we haven't made any of the projected um changes to our budget um I did include um the updated formula amount in the revenue so salaries if we had a soft
freeze in 26 and 27 you can see our revenues are still going to go up six% excuse me 0 6% in the next year and 0.5% in the next year even though we do stop frees because step still get their steps and links um if we had an 8% increase in
benefits those are still going to go up and you can see salaries and benefits are by far the largest part of our um budget so without doing anything um without offering any new benefits just you know battling with health care that inflation
amount each year um our expenses are going up quite a bit and then all other expenses all utilities supplies fuel um buses all of that um and just assume 3% inflation rate and you can see what
happens and this is why it's kind of a losing battle for us not we're not going to lose it's just very difficult to win here so um because very little of our Revenue increases um just automatically and our
expenses all increase automatically with inflation um it is very difficult to balance our budget and that's why we've had to cut the last several years I know this is a lot right now so do you have any questions on this
so you're on fiscal year 29 you've got 2.2% increase that's assuming heart freeze all the way through that's just steps and Lanes changes right what happen with nope so when I get out to I so I do a
soft freeze in 26 and 27 and then I say okay we're going to do a 2% salary increase on The Matrix so that's like a two 2.2% okay so that's why I went from 0.5 to 2.2 there no that's F
question at 8% is your assumption for annual Ben increases in all years you have 6.9 and seven you um I can talk to its formulas and it's um an inflation rate on our current um interest or our current um benefits
so would make sense that it's 8% but I think it has to do with um there's a reason Dave I'll get back to you on sorry that's right um
yeah oh the story tells is that even with and I think you're taking so the Gen Ed basic formula mat to your point you're assuming pretty conservatively that we're only get 1.4% increase because theoretically the legislature
might say we and that then compounded with increased inflation um increase expenses sorry the story doesn't get better as the years cool on no and that's a 2% I I
put 2% on the gened formula but because of changes in enrollments and it's not just the basic formula it's also our compensatory Aid which so there's yeah right which again speaks to the need to
do whatever we can on enrollment right talk to that yeah this doesn't include the redu you know fiscal 26 has that negative 794 that that's doesn't include reductions that we propos I mean and every time you know every time you're making a
reduction it's kind of hitting that curve it's changing trajectory right so in a compounds of kind I would like to believe that but it seems like I've been trying to cut two to five million for like seven years
like in this projection just keeps coming it looks the same no well no if you go back I can only imagine and look at the projection then if we wouldn't have done what we did right it'd be five million now I mean so rather than 794
there same two it seems like I'm chasing the same two million yeah so when you look at our overall organizational chart years of service um I mean do we kind of have one of those
around or some somewhere somebody must you know years of service because you're talking about steps and Lane I mean is right you know and the whole incentive of rule 95 used to be right way back when was to get rid of those
to shouldn't say rid of right that's not the right TR incentivize retirement be able to keep that dispersement correct nice you know that you have so many such a percentage of newer or youthful employees mid-range
employees and older do we find that we're and I'm all the wrong terms excuse me isna I'm in trouble shut up shut up so your point is exactly right yes
exactly right when we had more turnover yeah right that's how districts were able to sort of maintain some kind of like progression right because every year because there was a natural attrition that happen or natural
progression people were tipping off on one end at the high end of schedule just clarify so that was happening and and I I don't it'd be interesting to look at this from like a a kind of study this
but that's changed now so we don't have this tip off at the end anymore um we're not bringing in new people people replacing them and yeah that new person eventually over time becomes that person
but you still have that Delta every year where you're on the other end right our lower level because where so that's a a compounding factor or one of the factors where I think for many years school districts were able to
maintain this like economic myth that 2% on the formula meant 2% on salaries I think that was an economic myth and it was per perpetuated or made possible by the fact that there was this turnover going on and the overall cost of the the
salary was going to sort of be level yeah same maintainance we close and now it isn't and it there's no there's no
indication or evidence in sight that that Dynamic is going to change every education group is advocating for the reinstatement or the modification or a a revisitation of um retirement right
whether that's 60 plus 30 or something like that but those things cost millions and millions and millions and millions of dollars and right now that's not out there there need to
be a bunch of money dumped into TR to make that work and not just TR because TR you got to do it other yeah yeah so there's there's you know I'm sitting here as someone that would benefit from that um
but I I'm not holding my breath uh because the state can't afford so that is a good observation and I think with the wrong words but yeah I'm just
making I don't claim to be we have all that data really great to see see just what does that look like time you could even look at I mean even our seniority list is p posted online and it shows when people were hired yeah
um so it that would give you like I mean we have it in more detail but that would give you like a quick sort of BU um Casey's got yeah and thing every time we cut we cut the young teachers are the one you
know kind of the least expensive staff are the ones who tend to be laid off yeah the people that are eligible to retire they're not hanging around no no they've been very good too I mean we've had a lot of people who have
chosen to retire to save jobs of young teachers we have had that y so it's uh that Dynamic is real the other thing that that Dynamic is going to create it doesn't factor into this directly but I think
indirectly will one of our greatest um sources of employment for guest teachers are people that retired when they were 56 57 58 and they would come
back and sub for eight years because they had gas in the tank and like the idea of a little vacation money and well as it stands right now those people are going to be working till they're 62 63 when they retire they're not going to
come back and sell they're ready to be done so how we fix that sub I mean we already have a sub problem and it is only going to be exacerbated by the fact that the
largest group of people that we've historically counted on to fill some positions over time will get smaller and smaller and smaller and the you know the place where you look to go well
here's how you fix that you just pay subs to $1 a day give well all of a sudden it is affecting that assuming that there are people out
there that are only choosing to not suell for that 50 bucks so you get inflation on a very little amount of Revenue um the new profile reports are out so that kind of tells you can look up any distri state you can
look up how it compares to the state's average this is our latest um this is not just our latest this is the last five years and you can see in each of the past five years um Grand Rapids District earns receives less funding
than the state average Matt has a little bit more details further on and you know the biggest part of this has to do with an operating referendum the majority of districts in the state of Minnesota have an operating
referendum um when I compare in 24 the differ this school year 24 the the difference in the amount of Revenue received from property taxes Grand rids received $1,300 less per student than the state average so that would um make our budget
problem a lot easier if you look at expenses um you know we have been cutting for quite a few years um and you can see in 2024 um the district spent $1,800 less
than the state average um per student per student this is our only tool we have right now to balance our budget we have a policy to balance our budget so this is what we've had to do
so so we're doing 500 per student kind of better than the averages we300 we bringing in 1300 less that's just in property taxes if we go back we're bringing in $720 less
overall overall oh that was just yeah so y um I threw this together this is um you know we've been cutting and the state when we look at where we're spending our money based and compared to the average District in the state of
Minnesota we spend 75% of our general fund Budget on instructions special ed in the classroom instructional support um transportation this always amazes me the state average spends 7% of their general fund Budget on on SE on
transportation we are the third largest Geographic District we only spend 5% of our general fund Budget on transportation we have a very efficient program running over there how how long have we been at 5% um last year we were at
8% as the instruction um piece of the pie grows the other ones shrink because we um you know buy less pluses that's probably the biggest reason that's what I was a little concerned about because it could catch up to us for sure well
sooner or later do y I can tell you we have purchased four buses this year in 25 we have not purchas buses the last few years so um Greg someone offered him some buses and snapped them up so that
is good for us um yeah so that's you know as as we more and more more and more money continu of our budget is in the classroom um just kind of working through in number two then uh we've kind
of shared this before but these really uh are the four categories or four ways we can balance our budget uh enrollment state revenue revenue in general uh reducing expenditures and increasing local
Revenue increasing student enrollment these are some categories of enrollment that we can talk about we talk about a few of those with our um online school and what improvements
we might be able to make there uh we haven't done a lot of recruiting uh if you go to the metro area you'll see big Billboards that are uh pretty I don't want to say aggressive
but they're making it clear what they want parents to do they are aggressively recruiting non-resident students that's just something in our area uh that we've we've agreed to not do um as good partners and good neighboring districts
um at least and that doesn't mean we don't have open enrollment happening we do we have lots of it uh we have lots of students between our districts that trade but we haven't aggressively marketed I guess to each other um one of the ways we can increase
student enrollment is to increase the quality of the programming that we offer and that's both academically it's opportunities it's also about um Quality as it relates to culture and climate and so I think that's something that's important that's why it shows up in our
strategic directions um and then I mentioned that online so increasing student enrollment is one thing we can do it's not very easy to control but we can do things like we've discussed tonight revenue from the state really we obviously don't make decisions about
that uh we can be involved in advocacy um and we've done we've definitely done that uh through testifying and working with legislators Etc being a smart as we can with the revenue we do receive and you know car and I have discussions
often about you know how do we how are we the most creative with the money that we do get because in some cases we receive uh money in places that we if we were choosing it wouldn't come and so are there ways we can free up general
fund money by being creative with how we're coding or naming or that kind of the four third way we can balance our budget is by reducing expenditures and we've talked a lot about that after this year's reductions we'll be pushing that
$10 million Mark um through 2020 and I had someone share with me that we've essentially reduced a two-section school district like we've cut that much out of our budget the two section School District
like Nash walk or Nas um so that's that's kind of what's happened uh over 80 positions and most districts in the state when I am out and doing there straw poles being done how
many people are reducing we had that at the the Schoolboard uh day at the capital nearly every hand went nearly every hand went up with districts were cut was wasn't there couple though that were upping
like eight million in just compens story this year weren't they yeah the the biggest winner the biggest winner in compens story was uh either Min compared to what they were yeah but but some there was a big loser though too oh yeah there were huge losers yeah
likein was GNA lose over five million uh Columbia Heights was losing 3.6 million um so yeah that oio yeah so it's yeah lots of districts most
districts making reductions and our local our local yeah de River is making reductions uh big reductions uh Greenways making reductions yeah making reductions Hib yeah hibbing's making big cuts so I mean
it's this isn't a just thing for sure it's it's starting to affect everyone what we've been dealing I feel like it was out of there's like 300 and some odd school districts in the state of Minnesota it was like 235 are making Cuts yeah should what I felt like the number was when I was when I was doing a
little bit research Every Spring we get uh a release from mde called the profiles report and so it takes a look at averages State averages on revenue
and expenditures and so those that just came out fiscal 24 just came out and maybe that seems like a long time ago but when you think about when audits come out um and then the Gathering of all that data so
um Cara shared some of this information earlier this is Statewide average compared to Grand rapis area now when they're looking at property taxes they're not differentiating between Capital versus a operating
this is just your pro this is the right this is just how much money a district collects in property taxes regardless of what it goes to for in the general fund into the general fund oh in general they may collect for their Debt Service or
well mostly for their Debt Service or retiree benefits would be the other ways they collect where they this is just general fund that's just general yeah so again when we we look at you know root causes or or what
you know what's behind some of the challenges we have we bring in less money than an average school district both from local sources and from the state sources and when you think about these two things together it's a lot
it's a big ticket would there be information somewhere and I'm looking at more of the inequity in World districts but outside that seven count Metro versus you know what the metro and how that rather than a state average almost that
sount Metro region versus Greater Minnesota kind of thing because there we might be a little bit closer but you might be able to really see the inequity in the systems and how the formula is laid out be had be had some information that was grouped by Metro and R I feel
like did they so we can get that just an interesting we can get that to you as we talk to folks I mean I think that's important a spending again I'm I've shared these data with you for fiscal 23 uh it's what I've been
sharing out in community meetings and now that I have fiscal 24 I'll updated but it the dollar amount has changed the dynamic has not we spend less than the state average and you know this isn't like we're beating our chest because we
spend less it's just you know we bring in less we're spending less and uh there's a consequence to spending less right our students have less Educational Opportunity yeah and potentially we've lost enrollment
right there's a yeah there's a consequence to that too um what are other districts doing to deal with this this is the most recent map of fiscal 25 of operating referendums what's that small one is that nashar
yeah yes yeah I didn't mean to say small one but I me that little that's different which tells a big story of where the operating reference are right are not and then also like those communities though right like what those
communities financially you're facing you know you know the there's Dynamics to unpack behind here you have this corner up in the Northwest right tons and tons of EG land there um that is
Exempted primarily from operating referendum those dollar amounts are huge up there thousands and thousands of dollars per student but the way that they changed uh the law on egg credit I
really help those districts a lot why is it harder in some areas one answer is refer on to market value so this is a measure uh it it was intended to be or referend and market value per student was intended to be a measure of
a community's ability to pay and it doesn't play out that way very well um the larger your referend a market value is per pupil the less your referendum is equalized state so um the dynamic if we're talking
about a referent of market value comple you can get a high referend of market value per pable by having really really really really really large Market values or you can get a high ratio by having a really really small
bottom like Northland Community schols is a district that has a high one of the highest referendum Market values for student in the whole state why Emily um Lakeshore and they're dividing by numer nominator
3 so they don't get a lot of help from the state when it comes to PRS this is the the referendum market value per student that I was just talking about so you can see how that really makes things complicated do they differentiate that
at all recreational versus Homestead type Properties or any do they have another map that no it's separate that because you know that's how they separate out your operating referend um looking at our previous uh questions so again our referendum
from 2023 and again that was an attempt to get at you know these things here right like um we don't have as much revenue as everyone else these were our three questions just as a a a matter of
review question one was about stopping the cutting $100 per pupil operating referendum we heard during our listening in the springtime that people wanted to make sure that seasonal wreck property owners were engaged or part of the part of the solution so that's why we
structured question to this way with a capital projects Levy because a capital projects Levy includes seasonal recreational property and then and that was about putting things back that we lost we cut and then question three was about advancing excellents that was
about what are those things that would truly make us unique um like the decision the example I always use was the decision to add international Boran 30 years ago that was a decision that a group of people made to make this District different so
and that was an operating rep this was the results I didn't I didn't put up the results for questions two and three this is where we ended up you're familiar was 3 to one um a loss and I wanted to take a look at some of
the takeaways I shared this with the board uh uh coming up on a year ago as we debriefed but for especially for our new board members things we learned the timing was difficult due to tax hostility a lot of the people I talked
to were supportive of the school district but it couldn't swing it the ballot language was problematic and and complex I think we learned that having three questions is just more than we could thoroughly explain so I think that's something that if we think about
the future how do we take that into account Community engagement was low we didn't have a very we didn't have a real strong vote Yes group and and when we looked at that vote compared to
the successful referendum for schools uh that was a big difference for that election as well very strong group that got on board and got busy we needed to address misinformation more directly we kind of took an approach a strategy of of staying out of
the pig pen with misinformation and that resulted in misinformation proliferating and that was a strategy that did not work here and so we learned that and then we had bad turnout with our 18 35s and that is a
demographic that is the most likely to support a roof but it's often underrepresented the polls that it was for us to so those are five things that we talked about then as takeaways um things we
talked about as far as recommendations continuing to do the right thing um gather information and build relationships continue to communicate we've been doing that um and establish a new plan so that that's what we talked about a year
ago um and we kind of uh we also talked about a timeline we were again this was 6 eight months after the failed referendum what are we what are what are our options uh we looked or talked about
options if you're were going to do this next that we' be doing this next potentially this November uh as a reminder the state limits the dates that operating referendums can be
run we can only run one per calendar year and November is the only date that we can run a Ballot Box vote every other election date has to be
mail that's something we wanted to avoid um so some discussion and considerations uh we're doing what we can to maximize enrollment I think this goes into you know considerations for this fall we're lobbying and being creative with Revenue
we have evidence that we're doing what we can with what we receive we made difficult decisions to put the district back in the best position it could be um and our budget challenges are Statewide issue however most districts have been
successful getting additional oper so at some point uh if we are going to be thinking about timelines like this for this fall knowing what is involved in listening even starting a process of
at least listening engaging our community we have to start soon that doesn't mean that we're saying we're running right now in the fall or the board's voting to do that that kind of a vote doesn't happen until you know the
summer but if we're going to consider the possibility of doing one in the fall we have to start the process of Engagement and listening now so um I'm putting that out there for discussion uh I guess we worked with a
company previously called daylor they helped us with or uh with Todd rap we didn't work with daylor before but this is the type of company that does this type of work me the engagement um listening surveys things like that uh
this is the process they use not proposing today that make a decision to use them I'm just saying this is the kind thinking that we have to be doing if we want to be in a position uh to make a decision this summer about a r we
have to be doing this kind of thinking now um and again this is similar to like what kind of work do you want me to be doing um carrying forward it's not something that we can
decide you know the board can decide in even may it to do realistically it's something has to be thinking about now so the process can get going so you can have decisions to make in so yeah I guess I'm putting it out
there to hear what the board has to say what work you'd like me to be doing in the meantime um if it's more information that's fine too um if it's there zero interest in doing this uh that's a
decision we see where our futures Ed um uh and a lot of that's not in our destiny if we don't have some local Revenue inrease we don't have decisions to make
other than continue to cut um we'll continue to look at things like online options so I guess I'm looking for some direction from about what you'd like me to be putting energy into
I'm I'm supportive of looking at the options about running something in November and I think we should be taking some steps now with um uh Consulting whatever we should be
having some of those initial talks about what something like that would look here I I think when you look at the numbers and you look get the impact on our students I I think it's some direction we need to go and I think uh
expanded Community engagement uh we let Community know what's happening we've cut $1 million we've cut 80 people it's not getting better there are only so many choices
um and having those conversations also includes you know the correcting misinformation where it's where it's coming or when it's coming in um because right now there's already you know people chatting about see told you we're going to do a referendum they're
going to tax us out of our homes they're going to do this they're going to do that and the information that they're putting is not even attached to any kind of referendum so it's just a matter of you know making sure that we have all of the information that we that we know of
from the state and what does that look like because we don't even know if that's a recreational property tax so that's that's a big deal because um that could be a huge thing for us to and that would be
if we pass the capital Y yeah either or an operating yeah an operating it would reduce the cost of operating that
se individual taxpayer the individual tax and I've said it before just explaining it to the community in extremely simple terms so they understand exactly what they're being asked you know to do or
give well I'll say I I struggle with looking at a reference right now just because of how how that fails um we're we're going to expense money to do that um I don't have a magic answer I'm not going to say I have some magic answer
we've got challenges here got very real challenges um I you know I still am just I'm in a learning phase I'm not going to try to pretend I
don't you know but I am absolutely appalled by how much of our money is earmark it just drives me nuts right now they do not let us run the district I mean every one of these that we talk
about is yeah you get this but it's for this and that's it and if we aren't using it there we can't use it you know if we're you know we talk about how efficiently we're running it and we get no benefit of that because if we run it efficiently in this
area we don't gain the money there we lose it so they just they're they're breeding the districts to be inefficient to be honest because there's no benefit for us now with that said um you know
all I can say is I I said this coming in here that my intent was to get in front of people and talk to them about it and by people I mean getting down to the cities where it needs to be heard and and you know I think it was important that we did that as one our as a
district I thought we did probably as good as any district there that I saw in representation there and I and I you know I plan on continuing to stomp hard on that you know and we've talked about it I guess you know I get frustrated
with it because it's it's just you know do you email them do you you know and people say it's not effective you know you got to be there but I can also tell you I was appalled at the fact that I took a day off of work and we got 15 minutes with people and we were sharing it with District didn't show up because
he was too busy we didn't even talk to people I you know that's typical so I'm I'm looking for ways that we can be more effective at that I don't I don't have the answer but I but I mean I took a day
off of work and literally spent 45 minutes talking to someone rather than being told more from from that you know and the intent is that we can get our story out to people somehow so I don't
have the answer on that um but um I mean I don't get me wrong I appreciated the 15 minutes but I agree with you that that really was disappointing absolutely I'm very disappoin I think most people would
agree that the educational formula should be Rewritten and I think most people would agree that it never will be yeah e you know I like I say I'm very concerned about going out and asking because I you
know we still got voters still trying to pay for the the jail and for the roughs here recently that that you know there hasn't been a lot of relief there and and obviously there's no relief for anyone with with the inflation Le um I
mean that's going to be a big heavy factor for individual voters right now individual voters I you they're cutting back on things at home because of this so I I don't know that we would
have success success right now is where I'm questioning so so to expend money and not have Success is Not would not be in my mind and to Tom's point do we even have a timeline
from um from the county or from the uh hockey rink of when that should be done like when the community will be done officially paying for those two things or do we know if that's like a continuation you know where
we we can't continue it um that that about once the object of that the sales tax was designated for paid they can't continue it they would require another vote and it will be a different project I know that
um I know that the estimates uh were conservative about be paying back paid back and that uh it's estimated they'll be paid off for sure it it was severely
underestimated and that the IRA will be Pa back significantly early yeah and I'm assuming and once it's done getting paid off they can extend I think it's like once that has been and I'm assuming that you know I'm assuming some of the same estimates were
made with the jail right uh and the the revenue would be proportionate so it I think it's a safe assumption that most both of them will be paid off I believe in conversations that um the sheriff is working still abil
to pay it up as quickly as possible through whoever from available including um taking I think my thoughts around mat are that I think you have to have as much information going into us sum as we
can um in case we do have to make a decision to go for a referend and I think now have the information um as complete as we can be so I would support continuing
to March down that path because I think in all of the projections um I don't see a story that says it's this it's this perpetuating
cycle of cuts lose enrollment Cuts lose enrollment Cuts lose enrollment um Bas and opportunities being cut and I'm sitting here today because German was cut from our districts and that frustrates me and so the other thing that it frustrates me is that we can't
you know we're this is we talking about you know we're going into a teacher's contract and we're going into this plan of zero and zero and how how long will people stay in a job where they continue to not get recognized for their contributions
and not just teachers but our whole District so I think we have to just help the community understand the situation we're in and attempt to do the best we can for our kids and for the people that's support
our and I think the community needs to hear that message for sure that's and in terms that I think to Ashley's Point are you could confuse everybody very quickly any of these numbers any these slides it has to be
so and I'm not saying that our community isn't SM enough to get it I'm saying that we have to be very um um just deliberate and simple in terms of how we explain the situation so that everybody can understand where we are at the same level and you don't have
to have a PhD to understand I joke but I say explain it to me like I'm bu every time but that's realistically especially when it comes to something like this it just you know I I just I continue to think about how many Starbucks lattes do you need to cut out of your budget month
to support if we adjusted the uh we adjusted the amount you Starbucks that's you know significantly revisiting you know clearly when we came out at $1,100 and I the numbers that you saw
tonight justify that and our logic was about we didn't want to be turning around and six years and going on uh we wanted a plan that would put us in a position for a decade to be R but I think you
know one of the things was not in the takeaways I guess it was encapsulated the question but the amount we asked for was too much and I think the duration was too long people didn't want to commit that much for that long um and so I think that's a part of and that that's
part of what you learn when you get out and get information right um but I think that's that's part of the yeah where I said yeah I guess yeah go ahead no I don't know where I it um I'm watching the stock market tank I'm
watching ex go to eight bucks again or whatever you know but I mean I'm I'm watching Energy prices go I'm watching tariffs come in I'm watching and no matter what anybody wants to think about it's a tax right so that will hit your
bottom line in some way shape and we have Rising property taxes here simply because a lot of us live on lakes and land which keep getting bought up at astronomical
prices it's not us locally buying them up so we have a lot of people on fixed income right so now you're making choices and what I heard from a lot of people headed to the pools last time was not that they didn't think we needed it they they knew they couldn't
afford um and I don't think that's going to change today I think our economic situation is in a worse place today than it was when we originally ran the refen and you could look at any you can look at any statistic
on so that's why I get like kind of anxious about it because I don't want to get my butt kick again when we go out but I also know that I'm here for the kid right I don't have any kids left in the school but I'm here for that next kid to come
so that they have have the best education they still have a language they have computer science because guess what is the next one that we don't have that this is so hard for me to swallow and if I don't ask I'm not going
to know that's the other piece I have but we're gonna have to get a group of community people who care enough about it to lead it we can't lead it we can support it
we can talk about it but we can't lead it and we're coming into another negotiation and it was kind of a weird negotiating scenario where you know we'll support and yet it's like but
everybody should be supporting it because it is about schools and kids if you are part of the schools and kids so I sit on this fence not knowing really what I want to do and I don't think the data we had last time was
solid simply because we were coming out of covid and it was a weird time and some of the data was preco some of it was postco you were trying your best to try and decide what might be a number that would work so what would be a realistic number
I think that we would have to come in and then that second number could be this will help us for decades but the other thing we paid a huge price for that we had no control over was the state legislator decided to give school boards
the right the opportunity to extend a referendum without going out to the people we didn't have anything to do with that we never lobbied on behalf of it I never said a word about it but it made a decision and then all of a sudden we were all liars and we were trying to
extend this another 10 years that was the message that was never I we didn't even know it was happening it like all of a sudden showed up on a docket so I just sit here and I really don't know like in my own brain I'm
arguing with myself because I really don't want to lose on a three to1 again because if we lose again it's going to be a long time before we can even back yeah yeah I mean there's already a little fatigue already but don't ask we don't know and then we keep
chasing the two million and that's what we've been it feels like I've been chasing two million with 80 positions cut 10 million that doesn't even talk about all the specialized classes we've lost or all the great teachers we've
lost in that space and all the kids who went with them I'm not saying I'm just preaching with player I think talking about an online program is a good step toward increasing
Revenue you know and I um I mean we're talking revenue and expenses yeah and I think that that's One Direction um I don't think it's going to be enough um long term to do that I think it
helps and I think when you look at the other side expenditures um it's it's positions than and kind of NE in your head to be thinking about how many POS how many
positions are you willing to give up you know at what point are we impacting the students to a point where they're not getting what they deserve I would say no but that's just my opinion we' lost so many already so what
how do we fix that and going into the community and having those conversations kind of leaves us vulnerable as well but that's like what you're saying that's not something that you know we don't have the manpower to do that on our own you
know we can definitely be a support system but we can't do that as a group sitting here go out on our own and give all that information to the community um because we're going to need community members to
back us up in supporting some of those things um but what is what is that what does that look like and what are we asking at the end of the day for you know a dollar
amount um and like again Melissa said we have all of these issues that are coming in that are just going to affect our already impoverished community financially so what can we realistically ask of them without without making them nervous or
without you know making them feel like they're not going to be able to pay their property taxes or you know put food on the table or whatever the case might be I you brought up a community base on this right or
Community involvement kind of a Grassroots involvement I think might be another effect that comes out of that um and I and I think back to the training we had at the msba there um the one the
one speaker talked he talked about the fact that keeping students was more than just keeping the students it was engaging the family and that's how you get the students right so if we get the community to get engaged that's engaging the family right and keeping we might we
might actually see a bonus effect out of that sure where we start gaining students back right you you know just because you know we don't realize that when we lose a student we lost family before that probably is what happened it
it was the parents who pulled the student nine out of ten times unfortunately right necessarily I think what's interesting about that um is that in today's world where we have a lot more remote working
capabilities parents have the option now to work in and live differently and because of that they can go they or they can say you know what Grand raap doesn't have these programs anymore we're moving I don't need to move jobs I already work
remotely I can just go somewhere because the opportunities and there for my kid and then our cycle [Music] matur but go the other way with online but yeah I think it's this is healthy
discussion I for sure not trying to be the Doner here but I I mean no I said on both on both sides of this like I don't think it's to have those viewpoints to understand where everybody's thoughts are at and it's a different view from
it's just different views which is the whole Community everybody has a different thought process and we need representation for absolutely every one of those people what would be like a time like a realistic timeline that we would need to have in order to say like yep we're
going to end up moving forward on this so we can have it voted on in November so because I'm my thought process to that is is if we had you know the representative come in from that company and sit down with us and give us
some information and then you know if we had an opportunity to meet with those families right and the community at large and you know what how long do we have to do all of those things to be able to get a better idea of where people are sitting at you know mentally
and emotionally with what might be introduced and then again what is it that we're asking of them you know what is not so much the maximum but what is like a decent number that we might be thinking of that we feel like our
community can can afford you know and does that is that like a chicken before the egg kind of a situation like do we need to have those conversations with the community before we can even say this is what we're asking of you yes you know what I mean we need to know we need to know where you are all at financially
mentally emotionally from everything that's going on on a federal level that's going to essentially affect you and then we can sit here and say based off of that we are introducing this what are your guys's thoughts or even if we
just came up with a number that we felt knowing the political climate and the you know on the federal side that we introduced to so is there openness to having somebody like Jeff from there talk to you about what a process might
look like or timeline or information gathering or Community engagement at least a year like what it would look like I would like to know that because then I feel like at that point in time we would be able to then put some kind of like numbers on our own end based off
of a timeline you guys need to know this information by this time this information by this time if you feel like you're even going to remotely be thinking of having you guys your community voting in November this is all of the stuff that you need to have in place to be able to even discuss moving
forward on something like that at this point in time we have no again I keep going back to you know I get it legislators aren't going to be voting until May but I keep going back to that because that could that could be a real selling point for a lot of
people so I don't know you kind of sorry um to engage me like this what kind of dollar figure I think to have him come I of talk about process you probably just do that
but as far as like cost you know I can't remember it's two 3,000 month I can't remember if his structure was a flat dollar am well if you would come for to talk to us about it
I is this a company you've worked with before we we when we went through this before we solicited uh solicited a couple solicited some some responses and it was one of the companies that we interviewed
and okay um we didn't end up choosing them last time but it was really was Edge and Edge it was yeah 100% that and you know I think we need to shuffle the deck well I I would struggle with bringing in the
same country oh you're not wrong I'm not trying that sh the deck that's my opinion I've been that too like obviously what we did last time did not we you know the all the things I listed plus you know and
and this company has a lot of experience in uh outstate Minnesota rural Minnesota which I think matters um you know not saying anything about who we used last time I just it could be good for you to hear from him
and more about what it looks like your closing analysis that you had provided there I think you said that was developed about six months after um your bulleted it yeah yeah engagement how how did that come about was that you
personally doing that or was that was there a third party involved in that too or that was my work um as a result of listening to discussions we had um discussions that I had with uh kind of
debrief with the person who we worked with before um the Morris Leatherman who is kind of like the survey guy for the state and Country in some ways he took a look at the survey results he did in
June and the postpartum results and kind of said well this is why this kind of went sideways from where we thought it was going to be so it was kind of like an a those are my words but aggregation of a bunch of different things and including you know
some just uh just conversations I had too focus groups or one-on ones with people how you know in back of I really believe in your comment about it really needs to be engaged by the community big
time right I think that's one bullet up there when I look at it right um I'm trying to visualize that you you know what I mean is it is it Town Halls by us or something indivually I mean I think we should lead it you know and and I say
that meaning like I'm willing to do it it's going to be hard but at some point we as the leaders in the school were elected have to be able to stand up and talk through it and talk about it and why we're doing it and and if they're
gonna throw mud they can throw it there uh we can talk about it there I'm not afraid to do it and we didn't do that the last time it was kind of like we were one rung removed and so it was a little bit it's a little bit
harder to say someone's a liar when you're talking to their face it's easier to do it on Facebook but it's harder to do it when when they're talking to your face and and it's and it's and it's actually better to be in a dialogue then
around well that's you know actually that came through the legislature we didn't have anything to do with we didn't do any lobbying around that initiative that happened after we had already committed to doing a referendum and they can choose whether or not they're gonna believe it I mean I can't
make somebody believe it when we when we passed the referendum for the schools yep um there was some really good Community leadership inding and and corett um they let a community group and they were very effective and they were
out there like you say you know face to face with people talking about uh what was going on and we really did not have that in the last one um there's a lot of disinformation floating around there and I can tell you that
there were say no theill Lords yeah didn't see many say yes even in the newspapers there was lot of say no you know inserts but nothing you and it's hard to combat that once well
right because once it's out there now that's where I think if we go on this path talking to this person is probably F Next Step especially the street um to transparency has to absolutely be we have to This Is
Us I like Good the Bad the Ugly this is what it is because we need the the that we have to combat is the perception of knowledge that's
yes and transparency brings a solution and like Melissa said we don't have to make people believe us they don't have to if they don't want to but at least then we know that we've brought all of the facts to the table that we were given and that we already have within our own knowledge
and that's all we can do is and I do you know I think it needs to be there needs to be a big kind of community swell yeah um and a lot of times that has to happen with parents or retired teachers or whomever who really kind of care and want to carry that system for and it
tends to be people who are engaged within the system already that tends to be what it is not always but um so how do we do that how do we do it well how do we make sure um we hear naysayers but
we don't give them all of our energy because that's the other piece about this is there's a movable middle there's that right we know that there's those that will say yes to every single thing there's a movable middle and there's a piece that you're never going to move it doesn't matter what you do but you need to keep them informed and you need to at
least hear concerns but it doesn't necessarily need to divert all of the energy to the people who were looking to make this work so I think some of the community updates that you've been doing oh huge I think those are very Ive and definitely need
to do as many of those as you can they've been helpful people can't people can't say enough things I know even you coming to the chamber that was one of the best luncheons they had ever seen and everybody raised their hand that they walked out with new information
that they didn't yeah there's a lot of comments positive comments about those great visi Blackberry last week don't you that was great Lov it awesome so is there agreement you know steel
that a reasonable next step is to connect with this individual and just hear from him a little bit pick his brain see what things might look like is that a like a reasonable Next Step
ASAP ites us look like if we engage you know listen find out more is there an opportunity that's kind of the is there a path path to yes is there a path right and then and then we have to be ready
for if the answer is no and what the other path looks like is but necessary but it is what it is and we need to know and that's not a scare tactic right no it's just reality I know I know but what I'm saying yeah out there it's like oh it's just a scare
tactic do all these things we go from October 10th I mean about go reorganize the buildings because we needed to you one things okay
does everybody agree with that this an opportunity to listen okay all right I'll I'll reach out hopefully I commit him to something like what you said you had to do this for free you know he's a treasur listen if you wants to call
me okay Dave's number hold on Dave to give something away can you can you uh maybe next time print this in more than four yeah yeah I didn't uh didn't end up all of you people my eyes are still good are
they really eye from across the room like all the other stuff is going bad but this at least you got your eyeballs just took it out like oh you yeah except
for thank you