All right, good morning. uh this morning's work session um we just uh after some discussion I was decided to uh do a little education about Grant County where it started and where we're at now and a little bit in
the in between and uh fill the full board in on some of the AMC um surveys and some of the details they've collected when they um look at Minnesota and all the county 87 counties. And so I put together a presentation and I am
going to try and do this. All right, let's see. We're live. Okay, so we can go down here to presenter more, right, Ashley? All right. So, I have it up here on the screen and if anybody wants a hard copy
afterwards, I can get you one. I just didn't print it out because that kind of was something that took a while to put together. So, the last minute. So, um the origin of Grant County. So, trivia. Did anybody know it was 1871
um when they detached Grant County from Stevens County and decided to call it Grant County in honor in honor of um the president. Did anybody know that same act also provided for the election of three commissioners. So when Grant
County was established there was three commissioners not five. They were Henry Sanford, K. Melby and S. Frogner. In the absence of an established county seat, the first meeting of the county commissioners was held in Palm Deter.
And at that meeting, these are the offices they filled. So these are the first county offices that Graham County had. Auditor, treasurer, attorney, register of deeds, sheriff, surveyor, judge of probate, coroner,
superintendent of schools, justices of peace, and constables. So now we're going to fast forward to 2026 and all the years in between. And this is this current structure of Grant County. This is also included in the
document that was in your board packet, the Grant County operating uh guidelines, but as you can see, we all work for the citizens of Grant County. So they're at the top. And then now we've gone from three commissioners to five. and we have
an elected position for auditor, attorney, recorder, sheriff, and treasurer. The other department heads are appointed by the county board to include assessor, coordinator, emergency management, facility maintenance,
environmental services, and solid waste recycling, highway, human resources, license bureau, and veteran services. So, a little bit of change from 1871. Um these are the I would say kind of the
most common committees. There's other committees that the board has appointed through the years and that meet um but not as regularly as the ones listed here. Um I think it's important that not only the board but the public understand that um on these committees there's two
commissioners that sit on them. Um and then there's other um county officials that sit on them. And this is kind of where the brainstorming happens. A lot of the detailed planning happens and then it's the two commissioners that are on these committees that come back to the full board and and give
recommendations. Um so there's the budget finance committee. It's pretty self-explanatory. Our auditor, treasurer, and myself sit on that committee. We have a building committee um that includes obviously facility maintenance and a representative from
each of our facilities. Personnel committee um they work closely with human resources. Um that's the one that does union negotiations and things like that. Our county highway uh committee has two commissioners that sit on and
discuss all things on roadways. our public safety committee that deals with um law enforcement, fire, EMS, all those collaborative efforts in our communities and across the county. The strategic planning committee is a
relatively new one. Um that is an opportunity or committee where um ideas can be brought to discuss. it doesn't really mean that anything's going to change, but it's an opportunity to explore and do research and investigate options and solutions if they're needed.
Um the insurance committee uh that needs to talk about the insurance benefits that um the county has. Solid waste and recycling that has um county officials that sit on it, but also uh city
officials and um two township officials um that sit on it and talk about it. And that's that's been a very busy committee because we've been working on some modernization of of those programs. There's also a courthouse security committee that meets and the courts um
and the judge are a big part of that and different mandates and stuff that go along with having a courtroom and our courthouse. our safety committee um which is you know emergency management and that also has representation from all the the facilities and there we talk
about um employee safety um the safety of our our buildings and our grounds for the public to be able to use them safely. Another newer committee is our EMS committee that was established to talk about the future of emergency medical services in Grant County and how
we can keep our sprint paramedic program going after the state legislative funding ends. And then um the other uh regular committee that meets is our extension committee and um that's obviously tied with the University of Minnesota and our uh 4 um families and
and the fair board. So we're trying to really utilize our committee structure. So this is where you know a lot of the the work conversation and details. So then when we come to the board meeting and the commissioners that sit on these committees can bring forth information
andor recommendations to the full board. Um I think it's important to to look at who who works here. Um these are department heads. We have elected officials and appointed officials like we show we showed in our structure. Um,
but it it's interesting and and important, I think, for the board to realize and the public to to see all the years of service combined um between all of the department head positions. Um, it looks like uh Justin Anderson, our county attorney, has been here 30 years
and then I myself have been here 26. Um, our auditor, 21 years. So, um, and then we have some, you know, that have been here just a couple years. So it it's kind of good for the longevity and then also to bring um new ideas um
through our department heads to Grant County through through new employment. Um Grant County we work with three unions for the sheriff's office, teamsters for the courthouse and then asked me for the
highway. So, um, when we talked about the personnel committee, that's the committee that meets with these unions when, um, contracts are being discussed. Our sheriff's office, this is the structure of our sheriff's office. Um,
you can see we have investigators and deputies, um, dispatch supervisor and some, um, specialized staff on the dispatch side of things. and our courthouse. Um, this is a layout
of who works and um, in the offices in our assessor's office, we have two appraisers and one deputy assessor. We have one county um, assistant county attorney. Our auditor's office has two deputy auditors. Environmental services has an assistant environmental services
employee. Um, under facility maintenance, we have a building maintenance worker. Uh we in license bureau we have um our director and then a deputy director. In the recorder's office, there's two deputy recorders. Um
down at recycling, we have two recycling attendants. And then in our treasures office, we have two finance technicians. At highway, we have our engineer, um our maintenance foreman, uh we have an engineer tech supervisor, and then we have our heavy equipment operator, some
mechanics, our scient, um again our nine heavy equipment operators, agency partners, uh human services we know as Western Prairie Human Services, which is combined with Hope and Grant and now
Traverse County. um that partnership or that collaboration or joint powers board was established in 2022. So four years in with that partnership. Um Horizon Public Health was um
established and started in 2015. So that's that's been how long we've been working with them as partners. And then Morris Electronics. I had to do a little digging, but it's more than 30 years Grant County has been using the
service of Sean Larson and his crew with Morris Electronics. That used to be a Radio TV shack, uh, Radio Shack in Morris, um, and it's now evolved to a Morris Electronics how we know it today, but we've been in partnership with them um, at least 30 years.
So, um, Association of Minnesota Counties, uh, they put out a bunch of information, um, kind of just where, um, all the counties are at with certain positions, um, and and different functions. And so, uh, I took that information and just put it on here. I
just thought for, uh, it's just good knowledge to to know where Grant County is situated amongst the other 87 counties. So, combine health and human services. So, what if it says health and human services, it's public health and human
services combined, but you can see um similar to our Western Prairie um human services. There's a few others, but not all of them are the same. It's not apples to apples. So, the Southwest Health and Human Services, that's six
counties, and that includes uh social services along with public health services. Then there's the Minnesota Prairie County Alliance, which is three counties, Dodge, Wasika, and Steel. But Steel County is leaving that agreement
in 2027. I don't know why, but that was just noted in there. Uh the De Mo Valley Health and Human Services, again, that's both social services and so uh excuse me, public health services combined with two counties. And then there's Bearbolt
Martin County Human Services which is the most similar to how um Western Prairie um operates that has two counties and then um we have Western Prairie Human Services and that is not accurate. I see I have a typo in there.
It's Grant Pope and Travers. This should be three counties and not four. So my apologies on that. county management structures across the state and the 87 counties. Um they said this is this one needs to be
updated. There's already an update a county has now um put a standalone coordinator. Hudson County chose to go with the coordinator option. But you can see that there's 13 counties in Minnesota that use a coordinator structure like we do here. um
coordinator is a is a peer a support to the other department heads. It's not does not have any authority over any other department heads. Um there's seven counties out of the 87 that have a shared auditor treasurer coordinator
position. There's two counties that you utilize a county manager structure. There's one county with an administration director and then there's 64 counties with administrators and that administrator
level is someone with a little more authority um over some of the department heads. Um but yeah, I thought this was just a good good information for the board to see that how you know business is being done around the state. Um, I've
been here almost a year, so the jury's probably still out on this coordinator if she knows what she's doing or not. Um, but I just think it's good to just take a look and see where we're at. Auditor treasures or auditor treasures.
Um, this is a map of the 87 counties and how they are structured. There are 77 counties that have combined auditor treasure. There's 10 counties that have separate otter treasures. Um,
again, just food for, you know, just information on on where we're at in the state with that. Um, recorders elected and appointed, there's 27 elected and 60 appointed. Counties with jails. There's 77 counties
that have jails, seven counties that do not. We fall into that category with Big Stone, Dodge, Manomomen, Pope, Rock, and Stevens. And then there's three counties that have a regional jail. It's called the Tri County Community Corrections. Um
it operates a little bit different than a jail, but the three that are involved with that are Norman, Pulk, and Red Lake. So, up in that northwest corner. So that is the information that I put
together. I thought uh the board would like to see and understand kind of how we've been since I've been here trying to um put together some consistent guidelines on how we do business. I think it's important that the public
knows that we we are trying to utilize the committee structure where we're we're putting, you know, things through committees before they come to the board for a decision. Um, and part of that Grant County operating guidelines lays
out a lot of the structure, the playbook of, you know, when agendas are put together that the board gets them a week in advance so they have time to review and reach out for questions and just some of those things that maybe the public wasn't aware of either. Um, so I
thought uh before we, you know, have that discussion at the board meeting, it would be good to kind of look at how we started and now where we're at today in 2026 and and how how things are going. So, I hope that answered questions for some of you. Um, I know I've gotten some
questions from you, so I thought I would bring it today to the work session to the full board. >> Any questions for Tina? have questions. So, I forget the numbers, but
quite a few have appointed positions that aren't required. So, let's say Grant County, the sheriff and the county attorney are required to be elected, but I understand it takes a super majority to put on the ballot if we were
going to have the other three go to vote. Yeah, if for that conversation I'd feel more comfortable if Justin were here. I mean we look since I've been here it's been discussed just just briefly so I don't know all the exact details on that. So I think to answer those kind of
questions we need Justin. >> Well and what yes I agree with that but Mr. share what one of my thoughts were is and we've talked about this and if we talk about it at some point we should bring it to a
vote is because if it takes four out of five of us to move in that direction we should have a discussion about the timing maybe I don't know if it's too late for the November election but we should talk about the timing and then at some point instead of talking about it
we say I or nay. That would be my top. So Justin is the an the person you want to answer from. My understanding is it would take four out of five of us plus the elected officials agreement
to go from elected to appointed. It doesn't go that isn't four out of five put it on the ballot. If it gets random then it goes on the ballot. It's not us voting to put it on the ballot. We have to follow the way it's laid out in law. And Justin is the
council. But from the conversation I had with them, that was my understanding of how that works. We can't just put it on the ballot because we want to put it on the ballot. We have to follow how it goes, which would be four out of five of
us agree, the elected official agrees, and then if the public does not agree, it gets reverse referendum. Well, I think we should get a definitive answer. I I'm not disagreeing through, but I find it interesting that that many counties proceeded to do that process
and got it done. >> Well, I think it'd be a pretty easy process if the department had said, "Yeah, I'm agreeing to that." You know, that that's probably what happened at the county hear that's part of what Troy said. Part of it also goes in there's days before the election. We looked at
and we've gotten letters from all the elected officials that they intend to file again. So that does not create an opening. So it's >> Yeah. No, I I realize that maybe obviously you've got more information.
We had a conversation. I don't know if my what I heard was right. >> Yeah, that's how we interpret it. We we all hear stuff, right? That doesn't mean that's what was said, right? >> The county attorney's got to be here. But you know something, this is the will of the people. And you know something, it's their government. I mean, just
because five guys make decisions on certain things, you know what I mean? Regardless, Justin has got to be here in my opinion to answer the right question. But, you know, there's there's a lot of feeling out here on elections and where things are at and it's going to be a hot button issue no matter what and how it
all goes down, Mr. Chair. So that's that's where I'm at. This is the people's government, not five guys. >> Five guys elected by who? >> The people. >> Okay, thank you.
>> Okay. Anything else on that? I I got one thing, Tina. Okay, so last Friday I had our our western probation meeting. That was that's five counties. Uh Travers, Pope, Stevens, Wilin, and Grant. And uh
that's that's a great setup. It's been there ever since I've been around here. But uh so but uh the uh Tony the head probation agent there, he's going to come and talk to us at a at a work session one day and just tell us how it
all laid out and and some changes that he sees coming down the road. Uh but he wanted to just me to let the board know, but they'll he'll be requesting maybe to come to a work session and lay that out. But it's uh it's a great program. You
know, uh as it sits right now, we used to budget like 55 thousand a year for that program, but then a couple years ago, the state uh gave each county in the state of Minnesota $150,000 a year
to run probation. Now, that kind of took our levy uh problems away in that area. Uh but uh Grant County is a half and half the felony probation is
run by the DOC. That's that's the state. And then gross misdemeanors and uh misdemeanors are run by the five county the probation agents and their Travis County employees. Um so
but uh so the state then pulls back 75,000. So each each of our five counties gets 75,000 for their part and the state takes the DOC takes the other 75 for their agents and stuff. But he wants to come and explain there's some
changes coming down the road here where a lot of counties are getting away from the state DOC. They're they're they're doing it on their own. Ottertale one of them but uh and and he wants to just come and explain that to us that maybe that's an avenue that we could go. Then
of course then that whole 50,000 would come back to each compy, but you'd have to hire some felony probation agents. But we'll let Tony explain that what. But it's a >> my initial concern is
>> if we if we hire more staff and then the money goes away, the mandate is still there and now you've got >> Yep. Yep. That's right. But uh and that that's fine, too. But we'll uh we'll let him talk and see. But uh there's only like uh
11 or 13 that are left with that program. U so >> like the program we have. >> Yes. Only 13 counties in the state that stayed with that. So and five of them
are in in the winter western probation. So and they're dropping out every year some of these other count. But yeah, Troy's right. I mean that's my concern too. So, but anyway, he'll begin to hold you. So,
that's that. So, there's a lot of good uh programs here where counties are combining, you know. So, I was I had a meeting a part on Friday or Thursday for uh the West Central Juvenile Detention Center. That's a many counties are
members there all around we've been we've been using some days up there last year. So, but everybody has. So, yeah. And then as far as we're one of seven counties that don't have a jail, that's
good for us. We don't we don't want jail. We want our holding cells and we don't want any of those other problems. So, there's a lot of counties that wish they didn't have to have a jail cuz there's a lot of things that come
along with that really. Anything else you get? >> Good. >> I got one question, Mr. Chair. How about the price per day? Are these counties that have jails? Is that price coming up? I think it has came up come up when when I was the sheriff we were sitting
there at 50 to $55 a day for 22 year but I think we're paying more than that now. It's got to be a little bit more. >> Does the DOC regulate the the cost per day? >> No, it's a county. >> It's just a county.
>> Yeah. So that's I don't know. I suppose there's quite a difference maybe. But I I would think they're probably pretty close the counties though. we must talk, you know, and but $55 a day, you know, back in the
meth well worth the money because when they were out in society, there were people that were costing us more than $55 a day in, you know, I mean, it was tough on the counties those years, but uh but yeah,
sometimes it's money well spent, you know, people say keep them out of more trouble. So yeah, typical Minnesota jail costs. Well, here's what boarding counties are
charging other counties of 55 to 120, 100 to 150 for higher security. True cost, it lists 70 to 170 plus per day. That's a major issue for community actions in their
house building and their job that program is Douglas County wants to raise their rate or that the state's willing to and I think we're probably one of the last areas that has a program like that. I
think I think >> a major issue because it adds a huge amount to the cost of the houses and they've done a a ton of work for Douglas County and their their county buildings and offices but now they're back to this
new rate and I don't know where they're going to fall weigh in on it but yeah we wouldn't want to lose that program out of Doug County because West Central we're they're building one in Ashley now. Yeah, a great program. Yeah, one in Elite went pretty well.
>> I think $10,000 that they'll raise the cost of their horses. You don't have that labor more than that, >> right? But I mean, even if they raise the the daily rate, >> yeah, it's a it's a huge loan.
Well, well, we all maybe most you guys back and elbow here. I was talking to those guys working, you know, there they were. They're good workers. Just got little problems on the side, you know. So,
for sure. I think it gives them some net worth. I think they feel good about, you know, going to a job and getting back into society. >> Yeah, let's face it. Not not any not everybody can a carpenter you know
that's for Either that or it goes away in 93. Okay, it's time for the call meeting to order. We'll stand for the pledge. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation
under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Great. Approval of the agenda. >> Do we have an addition to the agenda? Any addition? >> Uh yes.
Just will check if chat is on. So, um the county auditor um asked to add the um agenda item for establishing a fee for the offsale
liquor license in Grant County. And to do that, we need to have a public hearing. And so, he requested that we have the public hearing at the May 5th meeting. Um, and so that would need to be an agenda item added today to to get
that to happen. >> Okay, we could do that. >> So, any other additions to the agenda? Hearing none. Do we have a motion to approve? >> Do we have a second?
>> Second. >> Do we have a motion and a second to approve? Any further discussion? Hearing none. All in favor signify by saying I. >> I. I post same sign motion carried >> first.
>> Okay, thank you. >> I'll try to repeat that. Okay, >> I'm sorry. I was writing and I missed it. So, >> the approval of the minute or meeting minutes for the minutes.
>> Okay, we have a motion by Ken the meeting minutes. Do we have a second? >> Second. >> Do we have a second by Troy? Any further discussion? Hearing none sign. All in favor signify
by saying I. I. I. Oppose. Same sign. Motion carry. Approval of the warrants. Wonder the city of Elbow Lake did list the specific courthouse garage le recycling but there's one that just says March 26
1771. Does that relate to a specific location? I would suspect it's this building. This building is so
>> just got labeled different citys are ones that go directly to the auditor. I don't see any of those. So the that city utility bill is on on just a auto automatic field. So I don't touch those at all. So
>> yeah, I think everything else in town is listed. I looked at it too that it didn't specify this building anywhere and that price seems in line with historic home. >> Yeah, it must be here.
So everything else is listed. So, Mr. Chair, I got a question. Are we going to point are we going to pass the the warrants and then we're going to talk about this this auditor's, you know, direction or liquor license fee change? So, we're
going to pass that later. So, it just be the bills in the motion for now. Yeah. Yeah. I'll make that motion for the pay the bills. Okay. Bill made a motion to pay the bill. Do we have a second? >> No, sorry.
>> Do second. Any further discussion? >> Hearing none. All in favor signify by saying I. >> I. Oppos. Same sign. Motion carried. >> Okay. Ashley. >> Morning. >> Morning.
I am here to talk about tinker endorsements for our highway and heavy equipment operators. So, new laws require heavy equipment operators that haul 1,000 gallons or more of liquids or gas to have a tanker endorsement. We have a couple employees that currently
already have one. Um, but we're looking to get everybody else up with their endorsements. um and then also make it a requirement in the job description to obtain the tanker endorsement within six months of hire. But talking with personnel committee, we agreed and the
recommendation would be to pay for our current staff, our current heavy equipment operators endorsement fee, which is $76 for the regular driver's license. They can take the test on our regular monthly um driver's license days there at the courthouse. And so we would
pay for the initial endorsement for I believe Pat said eight employees and then they would get their renewals their endorsement renewed with their driver's license and then that cost would be on them. So the cost of the county would just be to get the current employees
with the endorsement and then it'd be their responsibility moving forward and then new employees would also have the responsibility to get it within 6 months on their own. I did talk to the union. There was no issues um getting this or moving forward with this. So, I would
just be looking to get the a motion to one add it to the job descriptions to require it and then two pay for the the fee. So, $26 for the endorsement and then it's $2.50
for the test that the state requires. So what we talked about is that they would pay it initially and then we would reimburse them. We think that's the cleanest. So I'd be looking for that motion to get that required. >> Yeah, I have a question actually. Okay.
So yeah, I have no problem with it. But as we said today, u don't they need a tanker endorsement at all? these these heavy equipment operators that they're hauling, what are they hauling that they need this endorsement for? That's what
I'm asking. I get >> that's a great question. >> Yeah. I mean, you know, I don't know. I would think if there if there spraying >> I think it's for the Yeah, I do think it's for the spraying the dishes. From
my conversation with Pat, >> it's it's it's for all the spraying the dishes and the spraying everything they need to during the the win summer seasons. >> Um, and I did contact other counties and most counties do require it. There are some that don't, but I suppose it's
probably because they don't have anybody hauling over 1,000 gallons. >> I have a question. So, there's other endorsements I would guess to work in that department.
You know the question would be why we would exempt one of the endorsements for six months. We exempt them all. Wouldn't we want them consistent? >> For an employee >> for an employee. In reaching out to other counties, it
was consistent that it was within six months. It wasn't really within a hire. Pat, I talked with Pat and he thought six months would be um doable. It was because they're training and probably not operating. That doesn't reflect the other reimbursement needs. >> No. Okay.
>> This is just tank reorments. It's in the job description. Every requirement within six months is listed separately of what you need or what is required upon hire is in there. >> So, Mr. Chair, I got a question. So, if we add this to their job description and things like that, do they get a stipen
because they're >> No, I reached out to uh DDA as well and it does not change anything because they already are operating the machinery, operating the the trucks, >> but this is more qualifications, right? We're doing that with the law
enforcement. More qualifications there. They're getting extra pay. >> It's like a 25 question test fail. >> So, >> yeah. Um, I did get a response from DBA. I can read it if you'd like to hear. Um, if a certification requires, for example,
three years of experience to achieve the certification and the job description only requires one year of experience, that could be an instance where the grade would change. Another case would be made if that certification allows the position to perform work at a significantly more complex level. that it is that is another instance where a
grade change would be justified for requiring a certific. >> Thank you. >> And Kenny, you hit on my next question. It's it's just a written test. Is that it? >> Yeah. So they can get it done when we offer it here at the courthouse and it's just a written test that they can do. Um
and then they can go into the DMV and get the endorsement or their license renewed for that. >> Good. We're looking for a motion here. >> I'll make that motion, Mr. Chair. It is a member of the highway committee. Bill
made the motion. Do we have a second? >> I'll second it, but I want to clarify is it so in the document here it's asking for the 26, but the motion mean the 2850 because we want to reimburse for that 250 for the test as well. >> Yeah, that 250 discussion came after I
think I've submitted this to Tina. So yes, it' be the 250 for what they require and then the 26 for >> So that what your motion was done? >> Sure. Troy second. >> Okay. Any further discussion? Hearing none. Uh all in favor signify by
saying I. I oppose saying sign. Motion carried. >> That's all I have. Thank you. Um, would you like me to do the coordinator or would you like to do the auditor liquor license public hearing?
>> Well, let's do the auditor first here. >> Okay. Um, so like I already stated, um, there's been an application made um, to the county auditor. that office handles these types of licenses. And so this is
the first step in the process is the county board needs to um pass a motion to hold a p a public hearing um at the next board meeting May 5th. And at that time would be when um the board would
establish a fee for the off sale liquor license. So, I don't believe and I don't think Chad's on, but I I don't believe we need to set the the fee today. Today, it's just setting the public hearing for May
5th meeting so we can get the public notice in the paper for two weeks. >> Okay. Do we have a motion to that effect? >> So, move a Doyle made the motion. Do we have a second? Second.
Okay. Bill was second. Any further discussion? Hearing none. All in favor signify by saying I. >> I. Opposed. Motion carried. >> So then I will send the public notice to the paper and then it'll be on the agenda for the May 5th meeting.
>> Good. All right. Moving into the coordinator items. Um, in your packet, I um was asked to make sure the full board was updated regarding the LPHA opioid strategies summit that's being held in
Wilmer. So, that information is in there if anyone has the interest to go. It's a opportunity for counties to strategize um on, you know, talk about different uh opioid funded um grants that have worked
well in communities. Um share ideas, see if there's, you know, other um brainstorming on other ways to use that funding in communities to help um the fight against opioid abuse. So, that was in there just asformational for the board.
The next item was the Grant County Community Picnic. They're planning a birthday party for the state of Minnesota. The Grand County Collaborative is for May 11th and they're going to hold the picnic um at the city building and then they would
like to have a courthouse tour available. This is May 11th in the evening, I think 6:15ish. Um, I did talk to Maya and either he or myself could do the tour. Um, if the board, you know, I'm just looking
for consensus or if the board is okay with that since it's after hours. >> I don't have a problem with it. I think it's a good deal. >> Okay. The next item is uh looking for a motion
to approve the principal bulletin board for county business to be the bulletin board located on the first floor of the Grand County Courthouse between the auditor and treasurer offices. I believe it was established there um because the board meetings used to be held up at the
courthouse and the commissioner's um room. And since we've been holding our meetings here, um I would just like to formalize that that is still the bulletin for official county business. So I'd be looking for a motion to do that.
>> So okay, Troy made the motion. Do we have a second? Second. >> Doyle seconded. Any further discussion? Hearing none. All in favor signify by saying I. >> I oppose. same sign. Motion carried.
>> The next item is the Grant County Highway Department cleaning contract. Historically, the cleaning contract with Wagner Enterprises was a combined contract for this building and the highway department. And because um Western Prairie is going to indirect
cost reporting, they need to do it differently. So, um, the county attorney is helping Western Prairie and in that process, he developed the contract that was in your board packet. That is just a contract for the highway department. None of the variables have changed. It's
the same cost. It's the same um, cleaning that's going to happen. It's just a standalone highway department contract. Um, and we have shared it with Wagner Enterprises and they are good with good with that. And so I am just
looking for a motion to approve the Grant County Highway Department cleaning contract with Wagner Cleaning. I'll make that motion, Mr. Chair, to have a cleaning contract with Wagner's LLC
at 667 a month. Okay. Bill made the motion. Do we have a second? >> Second. >> Second. Uh any further discussion hearing? None. All in f all in favor signify by saying I.
>> I oppos. Same sign. Motion carried. >> Next item. Um it was included in your packet for this meeting, but it was also included in your packet a couple meetings ago just for review the Grand County operating guidelines. And so today, I would be looking for a motion
to approve the Grant County operating guidelines as a document the board and county employees um would follow in reference for um conducting business for Grant County. >> So moved. >> Okay, Troy made the motion. Do we have a
second? >> I'll second that. >> Bill second. Any further discussion? Hearing none. All in favor signify by saying I. >> I oppos. Same sign. Motion carried. >> All right.
Grand County EMS funding. So, the Grand County EMS committee um has come to the board a couple times um in the last um 10 to 11 months that I've been in this position to talk about the uh EMS levy
funding that the county has approved and and how, you know, it it's you know, what's the plan for this money? How are we going to use it? And um like we've shared before, there's the capital schedule of helping to um
supply new and safe ambulances for all of our EMS crews. And um the schedule, I believe, Maya, correct me if I'm wrong, it was Hoffman, Ashby, and then Lake Region. That was kind of the order. And Hoffman is in need of a new um
ambulance. And so um we've been meeting with the board um talking about this. We did have a meeting with the budget and finance committee and also with the city of Hoffman, the mayor um Scott Anderson and that ambulance for Hoffman has been
ordered. So today I am just um looking to to make it official looking to approve that $300,000 of the EMS levy funds go to the city of Hoffman for the purchase of a new ambulance. >> Okay. Looking for a motion. Do we have
one? Can I get the but So, are we talking about cutting the check right now to do that or are we just >> for It's a It's like a two-year process to build it just to allocate those to make sure that they they know that they're going that direction.
>> Dedicate is the term correct. I'll make that motion, Mr. Chair, to improve the 300,000 for the EMS levy funds for the city of Hoffman in the two in the two-year time frame. and payable with payable on upon
delivery, right? So, it could be two. Yeah, that two two years. Okay. Do we have a second? >> Yeah, I'll sign it. >> Okay. Troy seconded. Any further discussion on that hearing? None. All in favor signify by
saying I. >> I. Oppos. Same sign. Motion carried. on before we move off the EMS. Can we get something from that committee whether it's you know so we've talked about that schedule that order can we get something
from that committee to the board that the board can say yes this is going to be our then we've we've formalized here's our order that the this committee has recommended then it it takes my mind it takes future
discussion about what the order is I get there may be a situation comes up that we have to change it. The board can change it at any time, but we've got it formalized. >> We can do that. I think we could do that, Mr. Chair. And I think what we should do is invite the whole EMS
committee here or whoever could show up. Eric, everybody in the room at the same time. So, we got a concerted effort. >> Yeah, he's got it pretty well mapped out. I think that's already I mean that it'll just be a matter of producing not it's not anything we have to make up. So then we can just put it on the board
agenda and everybody show up. Perfect. Okay. Cool. So I got we agree both. >> Yeah. So we're going to put Troy's comment on the
agenda and have the MS committee come. >> Good. I was just looking at the your agenda item which does state the ambulance has been ordered. capital schedule is which we kind of approved the dollar loan but is isn't that
somewhat redundant because it's in front of us at this agenda on this >> well packet I guess I'm wondering what's >> the committee has talked about kind of putting together the plan or the proposal of you know when the legislative funding sunsets so we kind
of have that document already so I think it'll be more than just the schedule and and on board agenda request. I did put it on there just so you guys were aware before the meeting today that it has been discussed, but we can formalize I
think um the plan and get that document in front of the >> I would like something from that committee saying here's what our plan currently is. The board said yes, we want to go a little more formal than just in the cover sheet. No. Hey, that's
No, that's good. Okay. So, are we ready for board committee update? Okay. Okay. Budget finance. So, we've got our meeting with the department scheduled I believe in June.
>> June. July. Is it all June? Okay. Yep. I don't think we've met since >> we we reviewed first quarter. The budget finance committee met and we reviewed >> Oh, that was after the last meeting.
Yep. >> Yep. >> And then we set um set the meetings for June. I believe it's June 16th and June 22nd. >> Yeah. >> For the committee to meet with all the department heads. >> That's where you you're looking at how
it's going and things like that. Yeah. One's in the afternoon, one's in the morning. Coral apartments. Okay. All righty. Uh, building committee crowd bill. Currently, I know there's a request for
a sign going east out of the parking lot with vehicles responding from that lower area. Just trying to let people know leaving that way that there may be emergency vehicles going that way.
There's some other sign stuff we're talking about. That's a good idea. Okay. Uh EMS committee, we just talked about it. Yeah. So, let's get it on the board agenda for next month.
Okay. Okay. Personnel committee. Troya Doyle. We haven't met for a while. the way it hadn't been in since the last minute question I remember actually asking was
about the tanker endorsement that's done >> highway committee bill you got that update from that >> I do okay it's quite a quite a list here on the maintenance side of things currently finishing up remov removal of plow house
began uh crack sealing on CASA 26 which is using a lot of sealant. After Cass 26, we will be moving to CASA 5, 8, and 14 to get them ready for the seal coat this summer. Once crack sealing is completed, we will
be moving to Pavle patching now that hot mix is starting to be produced. On the construction side of things, not much to report currently. We will be scheduling pre-construction meetings and we will have a project timelines to report in
the near future. Other items of note, last August, the board approved the current bridge replacement list. They are currently 11 bridges on the list. Two of them will be constructed this summer. County Road 52
on the north side of Pondet Lake, which is Harrison Bridge, which people would probably know that name. and the Pelican Lake Township Bridge on 280th Street. The next seven bridges on the list scheduled for 27 and 28 are either are
either ready to be submitted to the state for funding or will be at the end of the summer. We will be acquiring easements for three of them on CASA 4 in 29 2029. the Casaw number two bridge over the
Chipoa River which we have not started yet. We will look to hire a consultant this summer or fall. The last bridge on the list is county 42 over the Minka River and is scheduled for 2030. Design
work has already started. After these bridges are completed, we should be in good shape. We don't anticipate adding bridges to the list at least in a few years based on current inspection reports. We are trending in the right direction to meet our goal of reducing
the backlog of bridge replacements to be able to put them more into road surface improvements. And that was a lot, but that's Oh, we got a little bit more. If people want dust control, please sign up and send your application to the treasurer's
office. Okay, we're all clear on that. >> Y that bridge bonding, that's the that's the major issue. Yeah, with all the Y, >> we can't can't rebuild them until we get
the bridges put in and county road 4 is in dire need of getting them bridges in there, but it's just a money deal with the state. So, yeah. Uh as soon as we get approval for that, then we'll be working on County Road 4 from the school
off the interstate and then after that it'll go from the interstate over to County Road 20. >> Correct. >> Yep. That's the first phase north of the bridge into into Ash. >> Yeah. There's two major bridges there. The one coming out of Pelican Creek
right before the interstate, then the puppet coming over the puppeteer there. Yep. So, okay, Mr. Chair, can I go back to personnel? Yes. >> Well, personnel or highway. I did talk to Pat and Pat said yes, chemical and
water. They will haul also brine in the winter. >> Okay. >> Just so >> that's what I >> just so you're aware. >> That's what I thought. So, okay. Uh, so moving on, public safety, Troy and Doyle.
>> So, yeah, we met with the cities and We have some concerns and some work to do, you know. So, what I'm going to talk about here is only going to cover the city contracts. It's not talking about sheriff's office
expenses in general. And this was with representatives of the cities, most of the cities. So, it's not full city councils. It's just clerks, mayors, some city council members. The concerns I heard were the amount of
the contract is too high. They don't want or they do want flexibility in the contract hours. They feel by having contracts, they're being double taxed for services provided. However, they still want to
contract with the county for some enforcement in some some way, shape, or form. What the county concerns I came up with, and obviously I'm looking to this board to add any additional that we know of,
is we have a potential hole. If they just decided we're not going to contract at all, we have roughly a $350,000 hole in our budget. And I say hole because I'm not going to say it's all income based. You know, it's one way or
another, whether it's income or expenses, you got to close that hole. Uh so let me ask you a question. Yep. So are you saying for 2026 and what we have in place there's a hole or you would look at
>> in the f in 27. >> Okay. Yeah. Thank you. >> So it's not a today hole. We don't have to solve the 26 hole. It's in the future. >> Sure. Thank you. One of the concerns I have, and you know this is me, is when
we have higher staffing levels and we're providing 6,000 hours of contract hours to the cities, there's no way we're ever going to cover our expense increases because the we just can't add that much
to cover that, you know, to the contract because we've already got the feedback that the price is already too high. So that is a concern of mine. Uh any contract we do where we're getting
money from this, you know, if we do a contract with the cities and we're getting that income in in the future, even at reduced hours, we're still beholden where if they came and said, "Well, no, we don't want to do any now." We still have that hold.
So obviously this is the first time a lot of you guys are hearing that. If you do have additional concerns that come, you know, you think of, let us know so that we can add that to the list of things because I think we got to go back and
go back to the drawing board. I think it's time to change how we have that relationship because I don't think it's going to if we just said this is how we've always done it, we're going to do it. I don't think it'll it'll pass. >> I think most of them
uh talk about paying some, but I don't think they want to pay what they've been paying >> and they want my understanding is they want flexibility of the others. >> Yeah. In other words, flex currently offered and they want
>> Well, so you know, one town maybe doesn't want two hours a month or two hours a day going forward. Maybe they want 30 hours for the whole one. I I can't answer. We never got into what they may want, but they want that
flexibility. So, well, I got I got, you know, I I probably have more knowledge on on that than >> than anybody. Uh uh first off, but the the contracts now are a lot less than
they used to pay when they had law enforcement. And then of course they didn't have to worry about training vehicles. They never had to worry about dispatching because the county had already done that. So that this this is a problem that I've
seen for since I got to be sheriff at 95 that get you get new people on the board and then they think they're getting taken advantage of u and they come with that argument that
uh that uh you know they're already paying. Well, yeah, we're all paying some, but the these uh the agriculture committee that owns that has 80% of the property in the county, I don't believe
they should be paying police protection where the majority of the people live. I don't think that I should pay Ela Lakes police protection. I'm a citizen of Ashby. I believe I should pay Ashby's police protection. and uh and I I also
pay into the county, but that's that's for minimal services. And when when uh these towns I think they need to be showing and they are showing that the total hours a month that they get are way over two a day.
So, you know, I know I know they they don't like it when they when they pay, but I know these cities are paying a lot less than they did when they had full-time police. Uh I bet you know like we entered into our first police contract in 1989 with Hoffman and uh and
it was for $20,000 a year and I think in '89 they probably had a little bit more than 20,000 a year into that uh police chief they had in there. They had two part- timerrs or one part-timer. I can't remember. But but what I'm saying
is that they used to pay a lot more. And uh I think I think a lot of the problems that come or these complaints are from city ordinance violations um where you know the people see that they see that
unsightly premise and and then they want something done with it and maybe it doesn't get done right away or you know gets put on the back burner or something. Uh, I think that's where most of the complaints come from. But, uh, but the
felonies and the gross misdemeanors, they're always taken care of. And those people, they don't, let's face it, they don't see the felony investigation that go on. They don't see them because it's it's private. You can't tell people what's going on. You can't tell them all
the investigative hours that you're doing. Um and uh and and that's the ones that got to be taken care of. So, you know, so I I think I think those contracts are fair. I Yeah, if they want to say, you know, we want uh you know,
to patrol during the day more or whatever, that's fine. But, uh they're getting their coverage. We just got to figure out a way to take care of the unsightly premise complaints and the dog dog complaints because they're the two that get you in trouble. It's not the
homicides, it's not the sexual assaults, it's not because you're taking care of them, you got to investigate those things. And uh so so these contracts, as far as I'm concerned, are a good deal. Now, if they go away, what happens? I think I think
we have less deputies because we won't be able to afford that. And then you're going to have less service. You're going to have less visibility. And uh so so that's that's my take on it. Um but uh but yeah, so that's all I
got to say. I guess I think I think they're a good a good deal. I know the city of Ashley is not complaining. At least they haven't complained to me. And uh so anyway, Mr. Chair, I got a question. So Troy, in the initial discussion, you
talked about like pulling out three years and was that that was a deal breaker then? They didn't they didn't buy any. >> Well, there was some that I There were some that just said the price is too high. Do they what I got out of it was they would not be interested in signing
for Ner was it was my take on that Rond Doyle? No. How was that of all of them or No, I'm not. And there was no majority of any board. This was those
who came to this meeting. Did did all the contract counts come? >> I don't think there was everybody was there. >> Wendle wasn't there. Um otherwise I think everybody was there. >> I think so. >> So they're again they're talking about
reduced hours, right? So, that's part of what I'm asking today is I want I want to put on the agenda for our next m meeting that we need Ashby, Hoffman, Herman, Barrett, and
Elbow Lake to all sign. Otherwise, it's not that contract isn't good. We can't just have like three of those five signed because that throws the whole everything all out of whack, right? So it we got to have all of them or we don't.
So that was what I would intend to put because this is the first time you know some of you are hearing it. So I don't want to make that motion today. I want to really have a chance to to think about that part of it. And then I think the public safety committee needs to
explore options of this potential hole. And what I would then say is on the June 2nd board meeting, we would list however many options it is that comes up
without really any action because then we meet again with the cities on June 3rd so we can go over that again and then we do a work session on June 16th on this subject. And at that point then we maybe put it on the agenda after the
work session. So we can get better direction of which way we what we want to do. >> Is there any chance that you want to invite you know your whole group to this meeting to one of our board meetings? That's well that's why it's a work session. If whoever wants to come,
>> they should be invited then they should >> then everybody's heard it and we'll, you know, we'll tell them on the third that it's the 16th we're having a work session and it'll be >> and I mean that does not mean the 16th is the end of public. I mean it maybe we need to have a public meeting
after that you know like go to ask the school and be it again I I don't know the 16th is when we would everybody will have had about two weeks to digest ask questions we get public safety committee gets better direction of which
way we want to go >> so Mr. Chair Troy it feels like we're kind of backing into this elephant in the room i.e the taxes and there's got to be some analytics. In other words, where are the calls are?
Where's the most crime? The most maybe the decision is we need to decide what portion of the law enforcement budget is compensated by the cities.
Maybe not focus on a contract or hours, but say, and I don't know what that percentage is now, but just say X X of the law enforcement budget has to be picked up by the cities
and demonstrate that based on analytics on the services and the calls. So if we did that, whether it's this many hours a week or this many just offer the service, but the city then needs to know they they're
going to get they're going to have to fund it and budget it and u but if they don't, can we force them to pay? >> That's a fee for service and that's a Justin question. I don't know. I mean
Dwight may know that answer too. I mean, I don't know that you can do a fee for service that >> that's kind of you're billing them after the fact. I I I don't think so. But, uh, you know, law enforcement is a, you know, we're
there to people call, we're there to go and help out, >> but at some point, this thing is that's where the rubber hits the runway. And so either if if they start crumbling, if the hours reduce, if some cities opt out, it's going to get distributed to
the Doyle for the world. >> Well, let's wait and see what options are. I mean I I if at this point what I'm asking for is the concerns and what I'm hearing is you know the concern is the tax is just going on the egg hunt
and that is well we see >> I mean there there's other ways and I don't want to get down that rabbit hole too far where it doesn't go on the egg land. I don't want to get down that too far until we get everything. But I mean that's
and back to Dwight and I think off of I've communicated I think they're fine with they understand that they can't hire a police department for the cost. So those numbers make sense.
And if the problem is the dogs and the ordinances, well, if that got handled, well, it would be less of a problem. >> Well, and just so we're clear, nobody ever retracted the That's just me. That's >> Oh, but I mean, nobody ever retract at that meeting, nobody ever retracted the
offer that was put out there. >> I know that. >> So, I mean, if we get to June and they've all passed the words, don't have to worry about it. But I I I'm just speaking for myself on the ordinances and because that's experience. I know
what created uh complaints and it wasn't the felonies because we're obligated. we we're going to we got to but the the city ordinances and the dog complaints and uh that's what you're going to get complaints because people see that
stuff, you know, and say we cut cut Kentucky hours from 60 to 30, I don't think uh I think your time would be eaten up with your felonies and your gross misdemeanors and you would probably never get to the
unsightly premises. Well, in doing that is is shifting. Yeah. you know, if you cut all your hours in half, now it's a $175,000 shift that, you know, so next year if we cut them in half again, then it, >> you know, I I guess one of the things
I'm looking at is we need a better consistency because that no matter what, if you use the contract money to offset that levy expense, you'd always be holding it. If there's we're not doing it, we
need to change ours. We need to change anything. You're always fighting that. We're trying to get consistency throughout the levy on everything, right? And here we're looking at it, but we haven't had it. We've been, and I'm not saying they're not uh grateful for
the service. It it's that's what I'm looking at is there's a potential instability there. Do we know if there's any models within the state and other counties that have this
>> I think that they they're all over the place. >> Yeah, there I different. >> Tina did send me something of some counties around our size and I don't want to get too far down into that today, but there's different models all
over the county. It like when we talk about solid waste and recycling, right? There's 87 different counties and there's 100 different ways to do it. >> Okay. Well, I I I know that Troy and Doyle have a tough assignment there, so we want to
>> There's just one more comment I'd like to make, and I don't know that that's what I heard you say. I don't think it was. But if we're trying to redo the system based on performance offered,
let's make sure we're addressing that piece and not upsetting the whole apple cart because of Mr. Sher, if I can touch a little bit on dispatching and things like that. There's other counties that bill cities for dispatching. Okay. Now, what they're
getting here is they're getting contact hours of a law enforcement and and the personnel that are getting out throughout the communities, plus they're getting a dispatch center and and the employees that are tied to that whole thing along with their, you know, the city of LA has their, you know, their
emergency calls go right into there as far as electric and water and wastewater and things like that, you know, and I don't know if the other towns do that, but they're getting more than just contact hours from from our staff personnel. Now, it's the big picture which costs a lot. And you know, some
like I said, there's others there's other uh counties that build cities for dispatching and that doesn't happen here. So, that's that's a big ticket item right there in my opinion. Look at we just spent, you know, to move forward with with, you know, technology, you
know, on 911 and things like that. You know, are they going to share in the cost of that? I mean, let's be frank here a little bit. You know what I mean? these guys this this level of service costs us all right so there's always got to be a little bit bit of a pain to be able to
keep that level of service I think and the perception that we do support our law enforcement and we support you know you know it ain't sometimes it isn't all about measuring cost when you're doing things like this I think >> I can't say you're wrong I'm reporting
what I took out of that meeting >> what I like I Troy Joy, you you you took it on and I'm grateful for that. I mean, what is But I'll say again, you know, we set an emergency services board with the central region and my a critical link
and Tina was years back. You know what I mean? Look at all that staff time that's plugged into that for the interoperability that they're getting for that whatever 350,000 for the county. You know, they're getting a lot of levels of service.
for that that this is token money. I get it. But it's it's well worth what what they're what they're getting for you that >> that's where I'm at. >> Yeah. That you know there's there's a few other things too. There's there's the
liability. You know >> that too. >> I mean wouldn't it be nice for us five if the county wasn't liable for you know law enforcement? But we are. we're we're liable and uh so and then all the reports that get generated the
record management systems uh you know uh it all and I'm sure I don't know if the sheriff documents when they're doing reports for the city's uh the time that the that the dispatchers are typing and
and the record management is handling those files. So there's a lot of things that and uh but yeah I at some point I'd sure like to talk to them all at a public work session. That would be a fun deal. So my question then is on the 16th
if we want to invite not just this smaller group but all the city council members from every city do we want to just instead of doing it at 8:30 because I don't think a half hour's time is going to be enough. >> No. We want to say June 16th, we're
going to do that at 1:00 p.m. Sure. And then >> that's budget meetings that afternoon. >> Well, we can do it then. >> I mean, we could do 8 to 9 4 or we could say 11 to noon or >> 10:30.
>> How much time are we thinking? >> Well, there'll be some conversation, right? >> I think I don't know the answer to that. >> I guess Mr. Chair, I would say I mean we've been here now 52 minutes. Our agenda seem to be more efficient. Why
don't we just extend our morning meeting and put it on the agenda and give them an hour and if we're quicker, we're quicker and we can work a little longer on them. >> Just move our regular meeting start time back to 9:30. >> No, just meet at 9:00. Put them on agenda and like you say, we're going to
get out of here in 53 minutes or a little more. So hope we get out of here at two hours instead of one hour on the agenda changes to an hour. >> Y I did want to have some time on there anyway even after so we can do the work
session and then an hour after that. >> Y I will because we're here. Let's utilize our space and our time. >> Sounds like a plan. >> Okay. So we got that one figured out. So,
everybody good with that timeline we're talking about? >> Sure. >> Okay. >> Next, the second meeting in May. >> Well, no, the first meeting in May, we'll have I'm going to make that motion about we got to have all five of those
towns signed. >> And then the first meeting in June is when options will be presented to the this board. The next day we meet with the cities and then the 16th of June is when we would do the work session. >> Okay. Okay.
>> 16th 16th the first meeting. >> What did you say? Say that again for the first meeting in May. >> It's going to be that that motion about we need all five of the towns. We can't just have peace meal. Well, and now that does not include window because then you
have to ask yourself if those five go are we gonna not if window doesn't are we going to say no to everybody that's question I can't answer that is so that will be in the May one June 2nd meeting will be the list of options the 16th
will be the big work day okay all right waste committees What have we talked about? >> Well, we talked about so the process of we've got some ordinance change stuff
that we got to do before the 27 or 28th. And we talked about getting, you know, approved here the intent of what we want to do. But rather than having the solid waste committee go through the ordinance and look at what
needs to be changed, we have a planning advisory committee that is kind of our ordinance restructuring. So having them go through and do it rather than the solid waste. Okay.
All right. Strategic planning. We imagine had one of our new members rather than one online on Zoom and we talked about >> public outreach kind of the best return
on our investments and how we're trying to reach the public and the consensus from the committee was our website and Facebook you know um are the best way to make sure we get out current and accurate
information. Um, so we also are we kind of put a blast out to the public about how they can receive agendas, how they can get uh, you know, the virtual link to attend on the day of the meeting, where they can go on the website to
watch the meeting after it's been recorded and posted, where they can find agenda and minutes on the website. And then um we also talked a little bit about you know like job openings and using Indeed. Um and then we talked um
about uh in the future what does it look like in Grant County and I the next time the committee meets Sean Larson from Morris Electronics is going to attend and kind of talk about what some of his contingency plans are so we kind of have an idea. I think there's four or five
counties in Minnesota that do not have an IT staff member internally and we're one of them. I'm not suggesting we need one right now or if we do in the future, I don't know, but just to start the
conversations with Sean and look lean on him for some guidance on what his plan is and what in the future down the road it might look like for Grant Card. >> Okay. Another thing in other kind of holes was involved but they put together a really nice newsletter
and they talked about doing it quarterly the challenge I think was that there's potentially a certain demographic or age probably just don't read those letters and so the time and the effort and expense and as nice as it is it was
probably better to use technology and other forms forms of dissemination because if you're doing quarterly a lot of the information may be old by the time you do it and it's a lot of work but side the consensus which are probably the physical news letter
from public health okay uh well we all know I'm the director resign or she's going to retire. And then uh the uh her position was uh was
interviewed and Angie got that position. Well, then there's two two good workers below, Betsy and Greta. And uh so now they're both moving
on. they've uh designed. So there's there's two positions there they got to fill out. that were in that process and and all all I can say is all three of those individual I know them they're all
quality people and uh so I was sad to see them go uh all three of them actually but uh but that's what happens sometimes and so they have to fill those positions and that's going to be their next uh uh move there is to
start interviewing filling them So yeah. So that's with that. Other than that, I I think the Horizon is doing a good job. They're working hard in all the counties.
So anyway, uh Western Prairie that's kind of all of us. Has anybody got an update from our last meeting here? It wasn't overly exciting, I guess. >> No. And we haven't had a executive
committee meeting yet either. So, okay. All right. Um, so anything else today? Anybody? If not, I'll motion to adjourn.
>> Okay, I'll I'll adjourn a meeting at 10 10 a.m. >> Pretty efficient, doesn't that get over? Well, we got hand leave at 2:00 for hands.