Uh, first item of business is to Wahas did the did the minutes from the last meeting. The only correction I saw was that you had the date wrong. Oh, okay. It said March 24th and it could be April 24th. It also said 5:30.
Which is the reason. Yeah. Okay. Um, David. Yeah, your back is Yeah. So, the camera's right behind you. So, it's show showing off my ball spot. Don't be laughing back there.
I once did uh I used to do a TV show for the uh and maybe you ought to sit here. I don't want to get to the chamber. That's a lot better. I uh I once did
a I used to have GCTV. I did an interview with the jury division in Boston. I think it was one of the better shows I did, you know, from soup to nuts and how Germany selection works and what the experience
should be like and all that stuff and the we only had one camera and so the guy with the camera is right behind me. So I'm seeing the project after we do the filming. Jesus, do I have a bald
spot? We got a little brown thing to sort of find. All right. So uh were there any other corrections to the minutes as
uh date and the fact that we will add a journ to 5:30 and I changed meeting time to 5. Any other corrections, deletions, additions? Um yeah, there's a a formal opening um that talks about recording
and stuff like that. Yeah. uh which is portfol. [Music] So uh we can go on the board of assessor site and just take a look at one of the minutes. Okay. So there's the chairman
statement. Yeah. A chairman's statement. I have to make a statement every meeting. It's the same statement every meeting. Yeah. It's being reported by the town brief. anything
else and then public comment. All right. Okay. Uh this is an official meeting of the of the board committee of the town of Greenfield. This meeting is being recorded and and uh is open to the public both uh virtually and uh through
YouTube. Um, and this is the committee on elderly and disabled tax funds. Uh, and it's April May 22nd,
2025 and just have reviewed the minutes and we're accepting the minutes. Is that right? Yes. Okay. Um, and thank you. There any of Oh, are
there chairman? Yes. I you generally what they do is they read the statement on the top of the agenda. They generally, you know, there's a whole chairman's statement that's on that's printed on the agenda. So, I I love the
recap, but generally what it it's, you know, you're supposed to read what was written at the top of the agenda and then you go through each individual item on that agenda. Thanks. Okay, Stephanie Hill. Um, this is we're still really
organizing, so we'll we'll have those paragraphs in there. And as far as the public statement goes, um, we have to open public comment. Yeah. And then there's a statement about the standard thing. So forgive us if uh we're going
uh off script. I was just trying to help. I know you guys are a new committee, so I just wanted to kind of just like don't overthink it. It's already on the agenda. All right. I thought you were beating me up. Just need an excuse to beat me
up. Um All right. So the meeting is open for any public comment. I don't three minutes you need to state your name precinct. Thank you. And I don't uh you know my name is David Rollston. I'm the chair of this
committee and precinct six and uh I opening this up for public comment. I don't believe we have any public well we have public staff. Do you have something to say?
Um, well, I heard Yes, I do. Thank you. Stephanie Duclo, Precinct 8. Um, I love this idea. Um, I haven't heard because there's always conflicting meetings, so I'm going to jump off right after this one and go to the next one. Um, but what
I did want to say is I absolutely love this idea. I'm so happy this is, you know, passed. Um, this have we talked about whether or not we can ask for uh CPA funds under the housing umbrella for
this? Also, um I'm looking forward to reading what um another member had um said that was she had brought in some sort of draft what you guys were working on. Um if that could be made publicly available that would be fantastic. Uh,
also another idea I had thought about is um I don't know if you guys, you know, see your paper electric bill or gas bill, but sometimes they have a little box that said, "Would you like to contribute uh, you know, some funds to your
um neighborhood fund? It pays for other people who are struggling's electric or gas bill." and that maybe we can figure out with a treasurer or a tax collector some way to include a little check off box for those who would like to, you
know, donate um to the taxation fund and, you know, all the legalities. Um I'm really happy to see that uh Attorney Rollston's on the board, so I know things will be lawful and correct.
Apparently not. Well, I I'm giving you like municipal government is a little bit different than some of the normal things that happen in in other meetings. So, you know, this time next year, if you guys don't have a right, I might file an open meeting law in violation.
Um, anyway, thank you for letting me speak. I think it's really important that every meeting allow for public comment engagement. um there are people who may have not been chosen to participate on certain committees that really want to contribute to the
conversation. So I really um appreciate the fact that um constituents and the public are and are considered stakeholders in this and that we are allowed to speak. Um so thank you very much and good luck on getting this off
the ground. Thank you. Thank you. Last time when G and Joan were here, I had the Newton stuff which included a tax bill to check off. So, I've got some
guys. Could there also be check off on like water bills? Yeah. I mean, any city bill that goes out. I mean, it seems like there should be a chance to put a box on the bill. I don't know what's labeled, but the um
Look, I I'm having trouble seeing my agenda. What's our agenda item? Because I I do want to address. It looks like the This looks like the agenda from the last meeting. The agenda tonight discussion. Oh, no. Here it is.
No, I'm sorry. I didn't know that. Review of current processes. You didn't get this agenda. No, no, please. Do you have more of these more agendas? We thought that that's what I attached, you know, to the minutes.
I just [Music] need All right. So, what's our next? So this is the roll call that all the committee members are here virtually and the opening the approval of the
minutes. What's uh the next agenda item because they can't review of current abatements and deferral processes. Oh, okay. Yeah, that's where I wanted to talk about what Jim sent out. Um uh maybe about two weeks ago you sent
that out. Yes. Yeah. Did you get uh did that you sent that out to everybody? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean I thought that was a really good starting point. It was it was a text and I think I sent it to
everybody except for Sean Thomas who I thought was on the committee but I didn't have his email address. So yeah, Mandy, did you get it? I I got the email. Yes. And and I think inherent in that it because we need to articulate
this and actually have this passed as a formal motion. It's our intention to supplement and not supplant any of these existing exemptions. Is that a fair sense of the committee if you follow exactly what I'm
what? Oh, that's yes some language that I gave you in one of those criteria that talked about it's if you're getting other benefits, you may not be eligible for this. And so, you know, before we actually put pen to paper, you know, I I'd like to
start off with a theoretical construct that that's our intention is to create something that fills the gaps of the exemption patchwork, right? Uh of the uh existing system is that you know I'm I
am I allowed to make a motion? Okay. sometimes chairman chairman nine. So I would move that it's the sense of the committee that uh our our purpose is to create a system that's uh does not supplant but um compliment
complements the uh existing patchwork of state exemptions and deferments. Second. Okay. All those in favor say I. I. Anybody opposed?
Good. And and uh is there anything else on that agenda item that we should deal with tonight? You know, because that's sort of foundational and then we'll move forward when we actually get to, you know, pen to paper and that kind of
stuff. So is it possible you could give just like a overview of this just a little bit? Yeah, sure. Hold on a second. I was amazed at some of the places I found you from here.
Yeah. Uh there, you know, are all sorts of statutory exemptions um for um surviving spouses, if you're blind, seniors. Uh there are also hardship exemptions. I think that
veterans veterans well the the the exemptions the defer there there are two deferrals there's a 41D that's a senior exemption uh that basically um
what you know whatever exemption was given is um is rolled over you have to apply for every year. This is sort of my my
recollection. And then when the property passes um 18A 18A, I'm sorry. Let's let me back up. Uh there are two hardship exemptions. There's an
18 which um is at the discretion of the board of assessors and it is here. Here you go. You got it. And there's no requirement for there's an 18A which is a hardship
defer deferment that is good for three years and um that's it. So you get three years worth of a deferral and total deferral uh as as much as needed. Mhm. So not
total just Okay. Yeah. I mean, it could be total. It could be up to 100%. But the point is there's a lean on the property. Um, and whoever takes out the hardship exemption has to agree to that and then
um they have five years to to pay it and then um to repay it starting two years after the the final year of the hardship exemption. And then um there is a uh I
think a lean on the property that u the lean on the property must be 41 days. Okay, that's that's a senior exemption. And uh so if you want a senior exemption for hardship reasons,
um you uh a lean gets placed on the property and whatever amount as you know is being uh deferred um you know comes due, you know, when the property changes hands, right?
Um uh I we just recently accepted a uh the policy for hardship on 18A. Um I'm in the process of drafting the one for cause 18 and then 41D is is pretty
standard. Okay. Now the deferrals are are you know a suspension of your tax obligation either in in part or in full but you are expected to pay that back either at the exchange of the property or
um after a three-year period. Uh yeah that that would be 18 is you're expected to pay it back um over over a a period not more than five years. that starts after 2 years when
you uh got that deferral. the 41D which deals with seniors um that amount is um reviewed year by year and um it it's totaled up and I think there's some interest applied to it and that's what
um when the property sells or it gets paid off um then the the uh amount comes due plus interest plus interest and then Or there's the like blind uh exemption.
Yeah. That's just a standard $500. Yeah, that the the uh amount of the exemptions u they changed recently. Um but that that's the idea. I think I think the the largest exemption is like a thousand
bucks. Okay. Except for the 401D. Now, there were veterans exemptions, but it looked like they fluctuated and and were discretionary based upon the level of disability. Yes. That it it depended on on the level of disability. Uh but
it's not discretionary. I mean, it's So, is that based upon like what the VA says, you're you're 50% disabled and then Yes. Okay. And then and then so some of those like a completely disabled veteran is free of
property tax. That's true. That's what I got the sense of. Yeah. So they don't have to pay property tax. They have to pay it later. No at all. At all. But if you're a, you know, partially partially disabled veteran and you get a certain
percent that's okay. It's a patchwork, you know, because there's a lot of people that don't fit any of those categories. Yeah. On on our website, on the accessory section of the website, we have um those exemptions uh described
and uh applications. Um, we're in the process of putting together a a single sheet that summarizes everything that sort of the exemption overview, but uh we just started on that project.
I mean, we have a couple of models, so it's not like we're creating stuff from scratch. Well, that's good. So, is there any other discussion on the existing uh deferral and exemption system? Okay.
pretty informative. Yeah. No, I really appreciate you sending that stuff out. Yeah. I I And by the way, I I'll just make a note. I'll send you the I have um something from SECONK that is basically two-sided and it's a
summary of all all the exemptions. I'll send that to you. Remind me what the next agenda is. a few of other cities criterion applications. That's what Patty Patty Yeah. I'd like
to kind of walk you through what I've done because um I had most of the towns that have been mentioned I had copies of what they had already what they already had in
place. But essentially um all of them have the very first part basically saying this first paragraph of stating the state law and you know and if any town wishes to do
this etc and so on all of that and then guidelines um I was looking at and obviously these are drafts um I was thinking that um applications should be into us by December 1st of
2025. Maybe that's a little optimistic, but it's a possibility. We can we can play with the date and that um that's a hard and fast um deadline. Unless there's extraordinary circumstances such as
incapacitation or hospitalization, the committee may wave this provision in part. So there's that. The applicant must be an individual. Therefore, a corporation or other business entity is not eligible for fund assistance
and an applicant must be elderly and or disabled in order to be eligible for fund assistance. It is the sole discretion of the committee to establish if an applicant meets these criteria. And then income criteria, I
use the 2025 federal poverty level available income. Uh, an applicant must demonstrate low income is defined by an annual household income based on 300% of the 2025 federal balcony guidelines. And
I believe these are the same guidelines that are used by um the community action for like fuel assistance. for fuel assistance. Exactly. So there's the guidelines, number of people in a
household and then the maximum amount of income they would have. And then as for households with more than eight persons, add 16,500 for each additional person. Um then it states
meeting the income criteria does not automatically guarantee an award. In addition, an applicant must be elderly and or disabled to be eligible. Again, it is in the sole discretion of the committee to establish if an applicant meets these criteria. I say that several times in here because I think that's
very important to put in people's heads. Yeah. And and disability can be a a difficult term in the sense that you know social security disability requires you know a disability expected to last one year wander and think you know so we
don't need to define it if somebody's had some major health setback that disables them for 6 months that cannot my thinking right but this is
that we And you're interpreting um elderly and disabled as elderly or disabled. Disabled and or. Yeah. Okay. And or Yeah, the law says and
the law I'm not sure. Let's check that. Yeah. I think the name says and but um when we were looking at some of the other cities stuff um there it says and or
and that was my sense in talking about because I like I say I lifted a lot of this language I've been picking through different documents. So just let me finish walking as you chair point of clarity. Yeah. Um, I was wondering when she said the lowinccome
guidelines, what percentage because they they do have a range. So, you know, what percentage of the poverty level? I don't know if I can't see the chart obviously, but usually it's broken down by um, you
know, 100%, 150%, 200% and and maybe the clarity of what that number might be. Thank you. 300% was what she said. Yeah, that we're just reviewing uh documents from other places and that's the
starting point for what we're doing. And the one document that Padding has did you model as several she synthesized several I synthesized several. I depict was it picking? Yeah. But did they all say
300% because I don't think so. No, that is based on community action program. Oh, I'm sorry. That's right. Okay. That's their criteria. And since it's already used in Greenfield for a very good and healthy program, I thought that
made sense in terms of that criteria. I mean, so it was interesting, you know, when you look through some of the wealthier towns, the criteria, it's like, hold on. Really? You mean like Western Newton? In fact, it's like those those are very high
numbers, in fact. But anyway, this is this is Greenfield style, you know, in terms of these numbers, I think. And I think it's I think it's relatively generous, actually. So, um, then elderly. To qualify as elderly, the
applicant must be 62 years of age or older as of July 1st, 2025. However, in some circumstances, the committee may deem a younger person to be eligible, especially in the case of a disability or handicap.
disabled. Every applicant applying on the basis of a disability shall provide the committee with documentation supporting the nature of said disability. Determination of disability eligibility is at the again at the sole discretion of the committee. Residency
the applicant must have owned and occupied the property as their primary doicile as of July 1st, 2025. The applicant must be the titled owner of the property or hold a life estate in the property. If title is held by a
trust, the applicant must be a name trustee and hold a beneficial interest in the trust in order to qualify. Trust documents must be submitted with the application and eligibility again is at the sole discretion of the committee. assets. The
value of personal property and other real estate excluding the doicider including but not limited to second homes, cars, boats, stocks, bonds, mutual funds, brokerage accounts, CDs, IRA, savings and checking accounts, pensions and annuity funds and any other
tangible assets will be considered in determining eligibility and aid amount. Other extraordinary circumstances I eg and unusual expense burden will be considered in the committee's deliberations and the decision process.
Preference will be given to applicants who demonstrate the greatest need and who do not qualify for any other existing exemption or deferral program administered by and obviously that's going to say Greenfield is that not
Danver. Okay. Tax assistance may be granted for any portion of the owned public charges. Therefore, it may be full or partial. Schedule fiscal year 2026 July 1, 2026 to June 30th,
2027. Application period is July 1st, 2025 through December 1st, 2025. The committee will begin reviewing applications in January 2026. Applicants will be notified by March 15th as to the status of their
application. Awards will be applied to the fourth quarter tax bill issued April 1st, 2026 due May 3rd, 2026. Award amounts will be determined based on the greatest proportional need.
Tax burden relative to income/ assets and will not exceed the real estate tax liability. awards are credited against an applicant's real real estate account. So that's that's pretty comprehensive. I thought so. And
then um go ahead. Okay. I can I was going to go on into the uh application, but we can if anybody wants to talk about it, that's fine. I'm not sure I want to I'm wondering whether procedurally we should use that as our
basic template and actually formally vote on it at our next meetings. That makes sense. If if people think I mean I you know I mean it sounds wonderful. I mean but people want to sit home and review this. I think that's important. Yeah. Yeah. This this is I think the
initial draft. Yes. And then and then after we have a chance to review it and bill it, then that'll become the draft. What's the real draft? Okay. So for our next meeting, we will have we will take
a vote on any additions, deletions, corrections, amendments to that draft. So we'll publish that draft and then seek, you know, to to finalize it next week. Does that make sense? I I would
not publish this initial grant. I I think we need a chance to work it over. I mean, sir, I meant I meant circulated to us. This stays This stays in committee until we've approved an abs a final draft. Right. Right. Yeah. I I
think we can I mean I misspoke when I said publish. I meant to circulate amongst us. Yeah. For next next meeting next month, we go Okay. we've all had a chance to look at this. Let's go through, you know, each section and approve each section. Mhm.
And then then we come up with an official document. I I would I would suggest that we call it the initial document and it is posted so that people can um comment on it or talk to you know
a public comment before we we harden up. I don't think that makes sense. Okay, let me tell you why. I think you know the document every there's going to be a lot of people with a lot of ideas about what should go in here and the the law
is very clear on what what our purview is. Our purview is to create the fund and distribute funds from the fund and that's the criteria. It is not to create. There's no other creativity
going on here. And I my my concern, just let me be paramedic for a minute. My concern is that people are going to want to to use this committee to perhaps try to get other things done that aren't out of
this purview. That's all I'm concerned about. Well, but you stop that by just saying that's not your part of work. Yeah. Okay. And and but you know I think you know and I thought about this in because of what we're doing department
um you can publish it and it's fine but you know people are going to go to the council there'll be public comment about how this thing is all screwed up. So I think before we get to, you know, give them a chance and it might just well be that this is almost essentially
identical and it might not have much to say. But the way the way we put it out to the public then is when we post our agenda, we would post this as a draft that we're working as if is that past practice for
commissions to do that with documents? I I I don't know. I I know what we're doing in the assessing department. You are hosting. Yeah. Okay. All right. Well, I mean, you know, let's I mean, I always open to, you know, public
scrutiny for better and for worse, but I mean, they don't like decide what actually goes on. So, if they want to give a, you know, for example, if somebody's like, uh, instead of 46, I want it to be like 47.
and we think it's, you know, something significant if it's not. Yeah. But but I think, you know, what I think those sorts of things and number one, there's precedents and you know, maybe you don't like
our, you know, the the income levels. Mhm. But there's this precedent and that's and that's what we chose. Yeah. Period. So I don't like the number. I want to fiddle the number. Okay. You know, if you can find an alternative, we'll consider it. Yeah.
That doesn't mean we have to act on it. Right. Okay. Right. So, it's just a space for people to hear before. Okay. That's fine. So, it will be, you know, your draft will be published along with the agenda which I will try to produce,
you know, next week and for our meeting at the towards the end of June. Okay. And then that'll be put on the record. Okay. And we'll look we'll attempt to look forward to a final vote next meeting.
Attempt. Okay. I mean you can we can attempt to it's a statement of intention. It should be labeled first draft. Yeah. First drafted as Mar. Yeah. All right. And you had procedures that you wanted to review.
Vanessa is more I just Yeah. I wanted to say something about I am not sure that they are procluded and anybody who taps into this fund is procluded from a statutory exemption. That's an interesting
question. In other words, yeah, like I'm legally blind. I get an exemption, you know, of $500, which is not a substantial portion of my bill. No. And if you were and if I was having difficulties, you know, beyond, you know, well, you no, whether you're
having difficulties or not, if you apply for this, I I don't think whatever award the person gets, if any has anything to do with the statutory exemption. So, in other words, his $500 is his
$500, but that would go into the consideration of whether he was, you know, going to tap into the fund, right? Yeah. So, so legally they can access this this fund, but that still goes into
our consideration. Yeah. There's other people who might not. Yeah. I mean, and it would go into the consideration anyways because my tax burden is $500 less than somebody that isn't legally blind, you know, doesn't mean I couldn't
serious trouble. But then it gets into the application, all the information there, right? So, let me tell you why I fell in love with this application. Yes. Um because I think that obviously it it
it goes to all your basic stuff. How many people in the home sold etc. the legal doicile residence etc. Do you hold the title? How long have you owned the property or when did you you know property? Uh have you been granted any
other exemption from any other city or town or have you been granted any other tax relief for this year? So that would be covered there. Um the status would be you know six elderly 62 years and older
disabled etc. and looking for what type of disability description, um employment status, um if any of that is is uh in there, any kind of uh non-governmental assistance, family
members and other sources, financial statement, um you know, trust fund, personal property, value of personal property, value of automobile, and then brokerage accounts.
stocks, bonds, income of all types, and everything's covered under here, pensions, annuities, etc. And everything in here requires documentation. Yeah. Which I think it's the only way to do it. Um, and then any kind of particular
comments that we they would like us to consider. Um, in the back is this check off list that tells you what you need to have in order, which I love because I do the I do the fuel assistance and they
are meticulous around what you need to have and they give you a checklist. So, this is what you have to have and it makes it easy for people, particularly elderly folks around. Give me a goddamn list. I know how to do that. You know, I can check it off. Now, was this drawn
from a particular place or was this a synthesis of several? This is directly from Native cuz I looked through all the different towns and this seemed to be the most substantial in terms of information that's required and
documentation that's required because the cons obviously when we do something like this um there will be a lot of folks applying and I I want to make sure that this is a squeaky clean at all
times process. process. There's no ability to question anything this committee does. I think that's extremely because we're talking about money and when you know money it gets we can get ugly you know government and money it gets a little weird. So, how do we make
sure that, you know, because we're talking about elderly and disabled people, how do we make sure that the application process is not so ownorous that it either discourages people or um you know how or discourages people or
people are unable to complete the course? I think I think that um because that's the other side of the coin, right? Right. I think that for this this application to me is uh relatively simple because it's bas is asking basic
information and you know social security you you have a you know you can go online and get your letter you used to be able to I hope you still can do that rules are changing daily but what about what about in certain circumstances for example if you've gone through the the
community action fuel assistance process you've in in essence been prevetted for our consideration. In other words, basically the criteria very and we're should we can we cover that by saying
have you are you a recipient of certain needs-based um aid that would you know do away with the need for us to know that if you follow what I'm saying? Yeah. Except I still think I think we have to have the
documentation ourselves. There is a part in here says non-governmental assistance which would be Mhm. community action cuz that's non-governmental that I believe that's non-governmental assistance. I'm not sure it's block grant money. I don't know. Yeah, I consider governmental
assistance but you're right. It's a nonprofit corporation. It does but it is block grant money and it's probably going to be gone next year. So, thank you. Uh, but I think I don't think the application is all that ownorous. I
would suggest it's done in several languages um to make sure everyone has the ability to do it. No. Um, I think that it's basic documentation of your income. Most people don't have this. Yeah.
Bunch. skip a whole page here on stocks, bonds, this that, you know, don't have that kind of stuff. But, you know, I think basic people who are going to look for this have got, you know, pension, social security, disability, that kind of income and maybe some part-time job
stuff, you know. Well, I think, you know, to to your point, this is modeled after fuel assistance. So, if they're getting fuel assistance, they have the documentation. So they provide us the the documentation. Yeah. The fuel the only
thing out of that the fuel assistance is the income. No, I understand. Right. But uh also I think one of the things that's missing here is other public assistance, food stamps, you know, food stamps, section 8
voucher receipt section 8. They wouldn't be eligible for section 8 vouchers because they already living in they have no Yeah, but I I didn't see public assistance. Um that would have to be
Yeah. And and also sorry to back up uh but in the u the requirements I didn't see the residence in requirement which is in the criteria one year but I any of the exemptions
they have the minimum I think is five years. Oh really? Yeah. Yeah. Look, I I think I think the the the point the point being is you want to take care of residents in your town. Yeah. And and people come, people
go, but if you're here for 5 years, 10 years, which was the residency requirement for some other things. Okay. For example, like food stamp, could that be covered in the income where it says social security mentions other or should
we? I I think it would be a separate thing. this type of thing and you know their verification letters and I I don't know much about you know public assistance and um how you prove
that you're on it and how you prove how much it is I know I've seen it there's my understanding is that there a letter is given to people and there's an eligibility level yeah etc. And you can something like you know how
social security says as of this date you're going to get so much money on this date. I think it's a similar I'm thinking right too but I don't I I know there's a document that everybody will get right um gets certain benefits right
and it's just that whatever that document is I don't know anything about it but that's the document that we don't have. Yes. Yes. But, you know, remember that we're dealing with people who are having some great degree of difficulty. We don't
want to require them to go hither and yawn. And, you know, by virtue of the kind of people we are, we keep good records. There's an awful lot of people that are going to be seeking this kind of help that probably are pretty disorganized and may not have the
capacity to obtain these kind of things. I'm just speaking out loud. I mean, that's all legitimate area of inquir. I'm glad you speak me out loud so we can hear you. But you're you're right. And um the way
we do this in the assessors department is we make ourselves available. Yeah. And you know, call if you if you have a a question. So we don't anticipate going, "All right, you know, this somebody's coming up with their walker and go, oh, I can't pay my taxes. Here,
fill this out. come back next week. All right. I I actually think it would be best perhaps and this this required some thinking because it's going to require some time is that if we could have
established times like at the senior center where he could come and we could do you know how you do the um what is what's the thing called when you're trying to determine which uh healthcare oh shine shine programs something like
the Shine program where people can come in. We can have somebody who's bilingual come in and uh go through the paperwork etc. to make it easier. You know, you ask people to collect all your whatever
information you have and this kind of thing and come to the meeting. Maybe a second meeting is required, but maybe we can do that. Yeah, that might be helpful. Yeah, that you know I I I held office hours at the library at first
Tuesday of the month. Yeah. And um my colleague Chuck Green uh held office hours on the fourth Tuesday of the month at the senior center where he could make an appointment. Well, he got a couple of appointments
and I've had three appointments by actually sitting at lunch and saying, "Hey, you know, this is what's going on, right?" So, I think the senior center is is a very important point for distributing the information,
but I think the reality is maybe you can schedule a session and get a lot of people to come. I don't know. But I think we I don't think it's something that I mean people don't think about this a lot until it becomes a problem.
Well, that's true. And I don't think we'll have much to contribute until we have fun. Yeah, that's true. I mean, and and that that's not going to be fast either. I don't think. Okay. So I
mean should we like we are doing with the with the u first criteria uh that the policy criteria should we put this on the agenda for final approval next month after we publish it
and you know have a chance to digest it. I think that may be premature. I think what we want to do is is is a good starting point and then what we need to do is review other other cities as well to make sure that what we have is
especially from here the next month. Yes. Yeah. And and then and then based on that right then we have a draft that gets published with the agenda for two months from now. Okay. We'll keep it on the agenda, but we'll hope we'll be
looking for approval of the first document or you know with with whatever changes people want to make and then we'll hopefully be ready to work on the second part in a couple of months. Does that make sense? Um I I don't see why we
can't do them both at the same time. Well, I'm I'm looking at I'm I'm just trying to move the process along. I thought we were going to send out the first draft and then hopefully approve it next month of the synthesized document that
she she created. What are we referring to that document as first draft? Yeah. First draft of policies. Is that guidelines? Yeah. So, we're looking to approve that next next month. Yeah. I'd
be okay with that with the application. We now then if we have changes we recommend them to each other. Yeah. Come up with a final draft of it in the next month. We can be like okay these are our guidelines. These are our guidelines and
then in uh July we can hopefully pass the actual application. Does that make sense? I don't I I think you've done a good job
on this. The only the only thing that I come up with is what people were saying, Jim, which was asking if they have any public assistance. Public assistance. Yeah. So, if we can just figure those things
out, I don't think it should be too too much work adding another line item or so, another box. Yeah. We're trying if we can next month to get this solidified. We need to be careful and probably seek um legal counsel, not
necessarily um for any questions about nature's disabilities because of the potential for a discrimination like you know like nobody is supposed to ask me why I have my
dog when I go into a public place. Is that dog of service to you? And not supposed not supposed to say, "Are you blind?" One one other thing I don't we've got to have some way of
circulating this. Um and and Mandy, you're you're you know, you probably know more about open meeting laws than I do, but it seems to me that when you're circulating things amongst the committee, that violates the open
meeting law. and and we've had we've had this problem in the assessor's office and it hasn't been problem but it's something we had to deal with and the way we dealt with it is you know we have a clerk and she's the one that
circulates all the stuff out because if if you know even us for sitting here without dandy we had a quarum and we can't transact we can transact business
But that quorum also exists if it's on the mail list. Okay. Okay. At least that that's what I understand. But I think when we're passing drafts around that that I think is I don't think that's part of the open meeting law. But I'm
not sure Franklin. I mean this is weird stuff for me. No, it's weird. you would have to check with Kathy about deliberation rules that multiple um emails can't go back and forth in a
chain of the quorum that would in fact violate open meeting law. So, and like multiple conversations whether that's even on social media that also violates it. So, just be careful about deliberation with more than a quorum and
an email chain. Yeah. I think you know I mean to that point Stephanie I I looked into the definition of deliberation and deliberation I think really referred to setting policy where we have a draft and we haven't said
anything I think we might you know might be covered that that might not be covered sorry that might not be considered a deliberation the deliberation is where we've gotten to the point where we are actually deliberating the words, you know, when
we get to the point when we're ready to approve this thing. Yeah. And then then we can make amendments and all that that has to be in a public setting, right? All right. So maybe for the time being
since I think we all including Mandy could fit in the same cell, right? Why don't we consider you know passing the draft around for uh review and comment and that when we've consolidated that
that's the time when we stick to the open meeting most. Okay. Make sense? So it'll be an agenda item for the next meeting. Um and then uh hopefully we'll have we'll have
develop developed the guidelines and then we can finalized the application process at the meeting in uh July. Does that make sense? Yeah. And what you come up with at the end of at the end of
June winds up being the thing that gets attached to July agenda. Okay. Yeah. Yes. That should make sense. That makes sense. Do it. Yeah. No, this makes sense.
And is that the end of your agenda? That's it. Any other comments on the uh policies and guidelines. Next item, fundraising. Fundraising. Okay. So, I just passed out
a I did some telephone surveys of various towns that were on the list that Jim had provided uh earlier and called them up and I got six or seven people in their office who you know had and there's just short summary
of my discussions with them. the vast majority of of the way these funds are created is through that check off, you know, with the property tax. Um, and it seems to be, you know, people
were surprised at the healthiness of the response from from the taxpayers. Mhm. Um, one town um said, "No, we don't do it with the property tax bill because we're afraid," and I think this is a valid point, and I think we should
consider that. Um, we send it out with the excise tax bill because property tax bill is so often escrowed by so many taxpayers through the mortgage that people don't even look at their tax. It's true. and you know and that the
excise tax and I also made the point I said yeah I'm a lot happier when I get my excise tax bill for my 2010 Subaru right exactly than I am when I get my property tax bill and my god it's gone
off I learned about water bill yeah or even then water bill would be fine this Mandy when when when you're sending out um bills and you property tax bills. How do you handle um people that have
mortgages where it's being escroed? They still get a copy of their bill. Okay. So, it could be a check off box on on that as well. Oh, yeah. There's no reason why we shouldn't maximize our solicitation. Precisely. You know,
water, solar, property tax, excise tax. Can we Mandy, can we do it on the excise tax or is that third party? That's something I would have to look into just because motor vehicles RMV
um it's a file that comes from third party and all our um bills are sent out third parties but um I would have to check on the motor vehicle. I think if other towns are doing it I don't see why it would be an issue but that is
something I would definitely want to um check on. What about the logistics of of um printing? You know, I mean, we we probably have some stock of bills. Um and in order to change them, we either
toss them where we overprint them or something like that. Uh would the logistics of putting a checkbox on bills that the town generates be a problem? Can you say that again?
Okay. Um I I I I have a all the bill forms. I've got a stack of form in property tax bills and I shove them through the printer and that's what gets them generated and sent. Mhm.
Well, I've got a stack of tax forms that don't have check off boxes on them. So, what do I do? I mean over print, you know, or or start this the check off box after
they're exhausted. Oh, no. We can't wait that long. But you can always put in a slip of an an extra slip of paper, but that creates problems of its own. Precisely. Yeah. There was one of the towns said that they had like a bright orange
notification. They add to the text like a sticker. Yeah. some another town is going to send me a a copy of what they did uh which is just like the check off for your good neighbors energy fund.
But another town said that they didn't want to get they wanted two checks, one for the you know elderly and disabled tax fund committee and one for the property tax.
So, oh, you mean for I would say one for the one for the committee. Yeah. And one to pay the property tax. They they asked and got separate checks. You know, they they went they solicited through the tax bill, but then
asked that they if they were going to make a contribution that they write another check. Oh. Oh. Yeah. But but the the mechanism where does that checkbox live on the text on if you have a stack
if you have a stack of Oh yeah I know I mean we have to it have we'd have to develop a new form. Yeah they have to be updated. Yeah. Sure they'd have to be updated but what do you do with the stock that you have? Right. Because don't forget I think a lot of a
lot of towns buy in bulk so they get the best price. Mandy, do you have any sense of that? That I don't. Um because like I said, we use a third-party vendor for mailing out all our billing. And do we know whether they would
um would it would it change your process if we either ask for an enclosure or some uh modification of the um tax bill to to solicit these funds? That I'm unsure of. I'd have to talk to
the third party to see how they would um suggest handling it if it if they would suggest adding the box or doing an enclosure. I would think that adding a box would probably make more sense. I'm sure he probably actually has towns that
do that already. So who who controls the the bill stock the property tax bills standard and all they do is print city of and counter on it.
Well I I I don't want to slow things down but we we as we're all aware there are some logistics issues. Yeah. But those those are easily dealt with. We can gather that information
subsequently. And there were in in my you know most the vast majority of towns were getting their funds through some kind of check off sent out with the property tax bills. Others expanded that to include excise tax bills. I see no
reason why it can't also be included in you know other city charges like water and sewer. Um and other people uh other jurisdictions had actually gotten seed money which brings us to the you know uh
community preservation act uh idea that no uh Alan has has mentioned um seeking CPA funds to at least do a startup for our fund. I don't know how people feel about that.
I mean, we've had applications that have included like pickle ball, the restoration of like a historic building. And for me, I
think helping your community members stay in their home part of community restoration. Now, uh, we can apply all we want if they don't deem it necessary, appropriate. It's up to them, but I I don't think it
would be an issue if we said something for me. And are you on that committee? No. Okay. So, I spoke to somebody who I'm not named on that committee and they said, "Not a chance of no." And I said, "Really?" Um,
interesting. Uh I mean it wasn't that harsh really but I'm think so I think this the the thing is we want to encourage rich people in this stuff. We don't the the thing the thing here is like it seems
the town as we know if he's I mean the council meeting last night things are really tight and the commissions have x amount of funds and I think the commissions you know have a very clear idea about what they want to do with
those funds. I don't know. Maybe maybe it I don't want to waste my time be hitting my head against a brick wall. You can always ask the question, but it seems like we we're obligated to do our own fundraising. That's how I'm thinking. And if I take it from one
pocket into another, I don't know if that makes sense in these times. I don't want to create I don't want animosity between. There's enough of that. Trust me. Uh, and I'm going on counsel as you
know, right? Theoretically anyway. Uh, last night's meeting was intense, but the I want to keep a nice atmosphere as much as we can. I don't know. It's just it doesn't there's something about it that bothers
me, I guess. I don't know. Yeah. I mean, one of the contacts that I had, and I can't remember which town, you know, said, "Yeah, you know, you you end up competing against the parks and recreation commission and you end up, you know, and and it isn't and you know,
quote unquote, things are tight, and but is it a bad thing to at least open the door and make our first application?" You know, they can deny us. I don't know. I mean, you know, I obviously before we do that, we have to
have a formal vote that that's what we're going to pursue. And, you know, I do think that we haven't even set up the committee yet, you know, like what we
can we can we can start discussing like funding sources once we actually step on the ground a application that we can like put out to the public. But that you know we will not be able to start any
kind of application and granting process you know that will delay our ability to do that. Okay. You know we have to have we have to have something in there before. Yeah. I mean, you know, this is a way to to start money is what
I'm thinking when with but even with a CPA, that's not like an immediate uh if I'm remembering correctly. It's an immediate like, okay, we apply and then we get it next month. That would probably be for the next fiscal cycle. I
mean, I think we just approved CPA funds last night. Well, the fundraising is going to take a long time. It'll take at least six months. So, uh, you know, if we have if we have
our stuff together and we know what we're going to do, I think that makes that puts on that's the time we start fundraising because we know what we're talking about. We know what the qualifications are. we know, we know the
qualifications, documentation, all that other stuff and and then, you know, I think we can talk to CPA or or or businesses. And one of the things that um we in and the assessor's office we've had some discussion about but no
resolution is there are a whole a whole bunch of tax exempt you know de tax exempt properties. Mhm. And some of them are owned by the government in mass mass or
federal so forget about them. But there are a whole bunch of others like churches basically medical medical stone. I mean you you get the idea that they're tax exempt but
um you you could get from them a contribution in lie of taxes as opposed to a payment tax. Yeah. And and that may be a way of doing things. I
I'm I I I'm pretty sure I have a list of all the exempt organizations at least organized by category and how much their property is worth. So, um but let's tackle that when
we're done with the business sedan. But I do think that is I anticipate that be a big chunk of the funding. I think that's where the seed money should come from actually. I would I would I would not have a problem
going and sitting down with somebody and having a discussion. I worked for M&A. I used to negotiate against these people, but and you want to talk to them again. Well, the parties have changed. The parties have changed since my time there. I've been retired for a little
while, but those sounded like horrible. Yes, they were. Um but the I never knew what she directly respond to medical emergency Penwood Street etc. But I know some of the some of the people moved
around the managers moved around and I knew some of the people but I'd be perfectly comfortable going there and and sitting down and asking who do I speak to regarding this? This is a proposal we have from the city. Nice relation. And then they get to tell how
nice they are. Yeah. missing then we get the money and the question is how much and how much and you know it could be substantial. I know at one point they were paying they were paying direct to
the city. Frankle Medical was paying in little taxes at my and they were doing [Music] I think I think they have to be careful because you the guideline in Boston is 25% of
what your tax bill would be. And it it it it didn't quite fly the way they thought it would, right? And in fact, they they had a listing of, you know, because they had a huge
number of academic and healthc care nonprofits. Um, and what happened there was a lot of people pushed back and they and the city of Boston published a list of the names of the organizations, how much their
property was worth, what their taxes would have been, and how much they contributed to to P. It's been amazing for pot that same situation. All I'm saying is we shouldn't talk about pilots and it was similar to a pilot,
but it's a contribution. It is not a payment of taxes because the payment would go out to the city. It's a contribution. Yeah. To this fund. Yeah. those organizations that already have a role that development of the community.
This will be the same with that. Yeah. And and some of them, you know, predictably um they're going to resist contributing anything because that means they have to fund grace
and and run into that, right? We'll run into it when we run into it. How you doing there, Nandy? I I was just going to interrupt. I do have to get going. Um I have another um commitment. So
it is 6. It's after 6:30. So yeah. Okay. What are our other I think we'll be going we will be going continuing this discussion. Yeah. Obviously. Um and
uh what is our next agenda item? Um next steps. Next steps. We already kind of Yeah, we just started to cover that. [Music] Um and our next meeting is June 24th 24.
Yeah. And it's going to be at five five five year. Okay. Um and I think so we and and the agenda will be um continuation hopefully a finalization of the uh
guidelines. Uh continued discussion about the um application process. uh continuing discussion on fundraising and hopefully getting back on in the fundraising aspect some of the logistical things of soliciting
donations through the current tax uh payment system and then other things. Okay, does that make sense? Yes. And there I'll I'll circulate everything. I'll I'll send again
the that I got out of flexibility which is is not complete. So I went on that doesn't matter. Um and I also printed out a lot of the stuff so I have it in PDF so I can send it out. Yeah. Okay. So
great. I mean you you've done a lot of the work. My pleasure. It's just good to get things rolling. Yeah. Yeah. Because this would be like stuck. Yeah. Uh, can I make a motion to
please all in favor? I think that passes my acclamation. [Music]