So I am officially calling this meeting to over. It is 6:30 and this meeting is being recorded by the appointments and ordinances committee. If anyone else present is recording,
please let me know. But no one else is here. So I doubt they are recording and we won't need to do everything by roll call because no one is online. But we do need to do a roll call of iron. So,
and I will try to for your sake in note-taking, I'll just try to do all the books and I always try to do this both in the same order just for the sake of the person taking notes. So, councelor web >> council councelor Williams >> here councelor Goliv is here
>> here. >> I'm just writing. Yes. >> Yeah. That's great. Okay. So, public comment. No one is here from the public. So, we will not take public comment.
>> I couldn't sit that chair though. >> You could you could you had a conversation about the public chair seems significant to hold violates chairs.
in case someone showed up, but they're not showing up now. So, um, can someone please read page 14 of the agenda, which is we need to read this
even though nobody is here to call for a public hearing on the ordinances. Every ordinance we amendment or new needs a public hearing before being passed. So, officially we need to do this. So, We'll read it. >> Thank you very much. >> Public hearing. In accordance with home
rule charter, the appointments and ordinance committee will hold a public hearing on Wednesday, February 11th, 2026 at 6:30 p.m. at city hall meeting room, second floor 14 square and zoom
htt. Yes. Okay. uh meeting ID 95602680935 to receive public input on the following. Amend code by adding the following new chapters.
191 vacancies in appointed offices. Amend code on the following chapters. Chapter 49 meetings. Chapter 58 precinct meetings. Chapter 173, Recreation Commission. Chapter 209, Alcoholic
Beverages. Article One, Public Consumption. Section 1, City Property. Chapter 235, Curfew. Section 3, Definitions. Chapter 265, Farming. Section 4, Disclosure Notification.
Chapter 322, Parks and Recreation Facilities. Chapter 565, City Council's Rules of Procedure. Sections 55, no section 565-2,
meetings, a sub section B, special meetings. Section 565-7, duties of the clerk of of the council. Subsection C, listing of matters. Subsection D, communications to the city
council. Section 5658, order and disposition of business. Subsection A, Agenda. Subsection B, endorsement add. Subsection D, consent agenda. Section 5659,
committee's new paragraph. Do I need to read the rest? >> Uh, I would just say to you complete just not >> you complete amendment language. There is a site listed. The city council may consider the same on Wednesday,
February 25th, 2006 at 6:30 at John's on Community Center, 35 Pleasant Street and Zoom. Meeting ID 96230565162. Materials can be obtained from the city clerk's office, 14 Court Square, from
8:30 a.m. till 5:30 p.m. Monday through Friday, or phone 4137721555, extension 6163. Katherine Garub, appointments and ordinances committee chair. >> Thank you. Mhm.
>> Okay. So, would somebody like to wait to open I am opening that is the opening of the hearings. No one is present.
Therefore, I am closing the hearing. I opened it at 3 at 6:35 and I'm closing closing it at 6:36 p.m. Okay, moving on. Now, um, Mr. like to read the order on page 15.
Motion. We'll do that. Order number FY26-068, city council order, city of Greenfield, Massachusetts. The city council moved that it be ordered that the Greenfield City
Council, pursuant to charter section 2-10, affirms the following appointments by the mayor. All terms to expire December 31st, 2029 unless otherwise posted. Greenfield Local Cultural
Council, Ed Burton, Donnelly Moose, Human Rights Commission, Angela Campbell, Pia and and Pia Matton. I think those are two different people. Okay. >> Majority vote required.
So, I can just write FY26-068. >> Yeah, I think you don't even need to write I think they all have FY or do they >> I think that you could just write >> um >> they're all different.
Okay, great. >> Thank you. Yep. >> Any discussion on this? No, I know Pia. She's gonna be great. I don't know the other two, but I can speak for Pia. Cool.
So, all those in favor? So, what we're doing is we're we're recommending to the full council. All those in favor of recommending I >> I page 23 and you don't need to move um you can just start with the city council
move that it be ordered. Just start you don't have to read the top >> the number. >> Yeah. No. Um, if you just start >> for max. Yeah. So, max 069, but you don't need to read the stuff that's above the city council. Move that it be ordered.
>> Oh, all right. >> Okay. >> So, you have the FY 26069. Okay. The city council moved that it be ordered that the Greenfield City Council amends the code of the city of Greenfield by adding chapter 191
vacancies and appointed offices ordinance as attached here to and further amends the table and index of contents of the code and further that nonsubstantive changes to the numbering of the ordinance be permitted in order
that it be in compliance with the numbering format of the code of the city of Greenfield. Majority vote required. >> I just learned to say that last part really really fast. >> That last part that that last not
substantive changes >> faster and faster and faster. >> Okay. >> I mean that's that that's just a >> okay >> observation of what ends up happening when we read a lot of this. Um okay. Any discussion on this one? >> Just a question. Some of this is line
out and some of it's red. Are some of the lineups older changes that were made prior to this? >> Some of the like if you look at the bottom here, it says uh name, address, scratch, signature, and resignation date versus on the top where it's red and
those are clear changes. >> It looks to me like the the reds are additions and the scratch the crossed out are deletions. I I just was curious because they weren't the same and whether >> I don't know why they're not also red. I
don't know why Tammy didn't make them red. >> And that's just that's why I was asking like I wonder >> Yeah. Yeah. No, it's a great question. Yeah. No, it's a great question. That's that's my recollection. >> No, it's works for me. >> Yeah. What's the rule?
>> Yeah. Also that said that said um some of the deletions this this happened in another one um
I'll show this also happened in the hybrid the proposed language is still there only struck through so this is a note for Tammy anytime a proposal is being struck through. Please don't re keep the struck struck the stried out
language. That's just unless it's part of the existing ordinance. If it's a proposal that we're deciding not to pass through, please don't pass that on to the council or to us ideally cuz it feels confusing. So, could you write
that as a note to Tammy? Can you say please delete any language from the Yeah. And I my interpretation and the
I'm just going to say this for public record and so people can disagree with me and we could amend this piece, but this was an interesting we have the hybrid meeting ordinance in front of us right now. And I'll just say I'm reading um
section 497g. It says that in the event that a public body required to conduct hybrid meetings has provided public notice of an upcoming meeting and an emergency including but not limited to inclement weather subsequently makes either and
inerson access or remote access impossible. The public body shall consider the practicality of rescheduling the meeting to a time when it can conduct a hybrid meeting. If rescheduling is not practical, the body shall provide reasonable advanced notice to the public and conduct the meeting entirely in person or entirely remotely.
I just want to say I it we could if someone brings to us new language to this to attend to what just happened at the ANO meeting, I would be happy to consider it. My current interpretation of this is halfway through the meeting, we just found out that we were
disconnected and I think practically we have a quorum. We are here. We're in process. No one from the public is here. Yeah. So, I'm just stating this in case people are watching this. >> Um I'm I would interpret this as applying for today. >> If someone else has other language, I
would be happy to hear it. So, >> just like we're noting noting real life, but I'm >> So, where are we? >> Could do you remember what time you opened and closed the public hearing? I opened it at um 6:35 and I closed it at
6:36. So vacancies >> vacancies >> this is a new ordinance. This is a brand new ordinance and so anything struck through should not go to the full council. >> Okay. So I said please delete any
language from the vacancy ordinance that was proposed but not included. No strike no struck through language should be included. >> Yeah. No structure language should and a request for the future. Please do
please Tina do your best to not include language we've talked about and I'll get to what you I'm remembering what you said um that language that we've talked about but we decided not to put forward is don't include that when we're come when it comes to a hearing because then
it's confusing to the public >> and it's confusing to us >> and then you had said what if we color coded and I would just say the ordinance if I'm understanding this correctly like the ordinance go through. We often have many meetings talking about that's not inevitable. We do not have to do that,
but sometimes we do have several. And so to like >> be a rainbow, >> it would be a rainbow. And when it comes to the hearing and our recommendation vote, I think we need as much conscess. >> All right. Any discussion on that one? Okay. All those in favor of a positive
recommendation. I I know no. All right. So the next is on page 26. Okay. The city council move that it be ordered that the Greenfield city council amends
the code of the city of Greenfield as written in the strikeout strike through attached Here to chapter 49, meetings article 3, hybrid meetings and further amends the index of contents of the code and further that the
non-substantive changes to the numbering of the ordinance be permitted in order that it be in compliance with the numbering format of the code of the city of Greenfield. Majority vote required. This is the hybrid meet and I'll just say that I asked many to the last line
that's subject to preparation that was part of a previous conversation and I asked her to please delete that when it comes to the council floor because it was just a proposal that we decided not to attach. Any discussion on this?
>> Looks good. I feel like it's red and crossed out means it was an addition but then not cuz it says red and crossed out. We're cracking the code >> um
>> on page 29. >> Yeah. At the bottom just a black and crossed out. >> Yeah, we'll have to standardize it. Yeah,
that is true. Any further discussion? >> No, I'm glad they included other included. >> I have a question. actually. So on F4, the language that says will be made
available within a reasonable time after the conclusion of the public meeting include information on how to locate or request the record. >> Yeah. >> Why was that not accepted? I think the implication is that if you include the city's contact information,
they're going to reach out if they want like it's inherently it's implied, >> but within a reasonable amount of time. That's what I'm concerned about. >> Well, so I think that it's this is I really appreciate you thinking about this. This is a really good question. I
think that I agree with what councelor Bulldock is saying like if on the if you think this on the on the agenda they have to include the city council the city's the appropriate contact information >> so then they can immediately reach out
to that person right so it's not like that person they're reaching out to a staff member so that person unless they're on vacation would be available the assumption is that they that somebody in the office that they call would be available basically immediately
or within the day or two to respond. So this is it started with specify whether it will be included and do you think that that addresses it? >> No, >> you don't. >> No. So here's my question.
>> Yeah. So include city contact information. If the participant wishes to obtain a video recording, minutes, transcript, or other comprehensive record of specific meeting proceedings, that's fine. But it will be made within
a reasonable amount of time after the conclusion of the public meeting. >> Oh, your question is essentially what >> time? My concern is time. So, 6 months after a meeting, I go into city hall and I want I want to get a video of it.
>> Yeah. >> Is that going to create >> public records requested 10 days, right? >> Yeah. I mean, I think that that law covers it. >> Um, I think it's I I believe that your concern is tended to
public records request is 10 days. the contact information is immediate to initially it says specify whether it will be made available. That's what it said. That's the initial language like that include city contact information wasn't there. We just specify whether
and not all of the not all the boards and commissions are the records are not kept in the same way and they're not available in the same way. So to really make this part robust would require
thinking through of more capacity and um like not not all of them are immediately available anyway. So you would need to talk to the boards and commissions and the supporting departments and make sure that they're >> to counselor Williams point like last
month I was looking for a specific meeting that had happened like a couple months ago and it still wasn't posted. >> Yeah. >> So I think like maybe you're looking for like an accountability around posting the information. >> I'm looking for two things. I'm looking
for not to burden the staff. >> And I'm also >> Everyone doesn't know that there's a 10day >> Yeah. Right. >> That's information that you happen to know because of what you do. >> That's true. >> If I'm if I'm Judy Smith down the street and I want to
I saw something on, you know, when I have cable. Yeah. Uh I saw something and I'm concerned about it and I want to know about it. >> I need to get to the town hall within 10 days, but I don't know that. No, they have to respond to your request within 10 days. >> Yeah.
>> Oh, thank you. >> So, you could go back in six months and be like, I want records of this, but they have to respond in 10 days. >> Okay. >> That's MGL. I think Massachusetts general law. >> Yeah. In Massachusetts, public records custodians must provide a written response to requests within 10 business
days. >> I see. Okay. So, this the city has to respond within 10 days of the request. I think the only reason to add it would be so people know that they can reach back out in 10 days if they have gotten it.
>> Okay. But would you want to add pursuant to MGL such and such and such to that? >> So, okay. Now, now I'm back to the public. >> Yeah. >> The public. What time frame does the public have in terms of requests? They
can >> as much as they want forever. >> As much as they want forever. >> Well, a statute limitations. >> Yeah. I don't think >> Okay. And we're not going to impose that. >> No. >> Okay. So, people can be totally unreasonable. >> I think I mean that makes you
>> I think what and what exists as public records, right? >> Like if the public records exist whenever I don't know. Yeah, guys. I don't know how long the records are. Okay. Well, and then here's the thing, too. It's different now because I can go to Berkog and get records from like 1865
if I want. >> That's fascinating. Okay. >> Fascinating. >> Um, I'll tell you about it after the meeting. It's great. >> Um, the Meridian Street is named, >> I'm sure. However, >> um,
and looking if there's a statute there in some cases there's a fee. It depends. >> Okay. Yes. um does not appear to be >> a limitation but I think with within a reasonable amount of time like if it's criminal like 10 years I think you can
go there's like certain limitations crimally but civily there's a lot of stuff that's kept here >> right okay >> so we can actually the clerk's office >> so I think my concern is unfounded >> it is I do say I don't think it's
unfounded I think it's founded really I think it's like on a really good foundation of caring for the public. I think it's tended to >> unnecessary. >> Yeah, I don't think so. >> Okay, fine. That's cool. Oh, there is uh I'm sorry to interrupt. There are two three statutory laws on statewide
retention schedules. So, there is a schedule. They're posted publicly by the looks of it. >> Okay. >> Um I can go for each of them individually. >> Yeah. My only concern which I think the bigger picture is like just human
ability to get things done but like having things posted in a reasonable time. >> Like reasonable being like not two months later. >> Mhm. >> Yeah. >> But again like we don't have people to do it. We don't have people to do it.
>> Right. And and I don't know if we have people to do it. And we could there could we could probably legislate the time when then it needs to be enforceable. Right. Right. >> Um but that's another conversation then.
I do think that your I do think you're >> concerned is tended to I don't think that there's a concern about people getting information. I think I'm glad you brought it up. And if we're talking about meeting records and minutes and stuff being accessible, that's another
conversation that amended that. >> Right. Okay, that's fine. >> Yeah, >> I'm good. >> I just also want to put a a a plug for myself, but I don't mean to. I just want the history of this ordinance. This ordinance is was crit setting in in
green in Massachusetts. Like this was we I worked with the with Javier at the ACLU on this and many people from the city um when we passed this about a year ago. And so this is a really significant thing for other municipalities too who
are talking about meeting access. So I'm >> okay >> excited that we still have this >> kind of in the future. >> Yeah. >> We could potentially add an amendment of accessibility. >> We could yes although it may be its own ordinance. Okay. take it. Maybe there
may be an accessibility like you could change the name of this and there might be an article on hybrid meetings and another on records or something. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> So, any other discussion on this?
Okay. So all those in favor of amending >> I I no or exception. >> Um okay. Uh the next one, page 32. >> Okay. Um, the city council moved that it
be ordered that the Greenfield City Council amend the code of the city of Greenfield as written in the striketh through attached here to chapter 58 precinct meetings and further amends the index of the code and further that
non-substantive changes to the numbering of the ordinance be permitted in order that it be in compliance with the numbering format of the code of the city of Greenfield. Majority vote required. >> And just to just again to name the
history of this, the I really appreciate the um community relations subcommittee working on working on this to make the existing thing actually enforceable and create an enforceable implementable
process. Just a request to Tammy to please clean up the document that everything just this is a request for everything. Please have all changes. Please have all changes to ordinances be colored.
Have additions be bold and strikethroughs be struck through. Just to ordinance be colored. Will those additions be >> additions be bold and and deletions be structured?
So everything is cleaned up for the full city council. Any discussion on this one? >> One. >> Yes. >> Uh 58-4 scheduling. The wording is strange. The mayor and
community relations committee shall schedule the date, time, and location of the meeting after consultation with the precinct counselors and mayor and school designate. Is that a little odd? >> It seems like the mayor.
>> Hold on. >> And is struck through. >> Oh, and it is struck through. You're right. >> Yeah. And what I'm starting if we I'm suspecting I'm wondering if the mayor is meant to be there in the first one like is it who
I'm Yes, >> they are meant to be. >> Yes, I worked on this. >> Okay, so the mayor and the school >> and community relations >> are working together. >> Okay, so they're scheduling it together. >> Yes. >> So what should be after consultation with precinct counselors and school
design? >> Yes. Okay, that's exactly what it should be. All right. So, delete second layer. >> Any other discussion on this? The electronic display boards at Fire. >> Sorry. Um on 583 notice.
>> Uhu. >> Um electronic display boards at fire station, library, kiosk, etc. Is kiosk supposed to be the giant iPhone? >> Yeah. Okay. Giant
subol dreaming of being an iPhone. Okay. Um, anything else? Any other discussion? >> That's correct. >> All right. So, all those in favor? >> I
>> I don't hear any nos or the board, please. Uh, the city council moved that it be ordered that the Greenfield City Council amend the code of the city of Greenfield as written in the strike through attached here to chapter 173 recreation
commissions and further amends table of contents and the index of the code and further that nonsubstantive changes to the numbering of the ordinance be permitted in order that it be in compliance with the numbering format of the code of the city of Greenfield
majority vote. required. >> First point of discussion is that it says reparation commissions, but the motion should just say commission. There's only one commission. And so, can you ask Tammy delete the S in the motion
after recognition commissions? Thank you. Okay, this one Okay. So, all those in favor >> I >> I >> I page 37. Okay. The city council move
that it be ordered that the Greenfield city council amend the code of the city of Greenfield as written in the strike through attached there too. Chapter 209, Alcoholic Beverages, Article One, Public Consumption, Section One, City Controlled Property, and further amends
the index of the code, and further that non-substantive changes to the numbering of the ordinance be permitted in order that it be in compliance with the numbering format of the code of the city of Greenfield's majority vote required. Just want to check one thing.
I I want to double check um that this is all the language that was changed as in red but not okay. Um, city controlled property commissioners. Okay.
Okay. It looks to me like the only change. I just wanted to double check cuz I was surprised that there was only one change and I asked Tammy to double check today and she said this was the only change. I didn't have a moment to. So, I just wanted to double check. It looks to me and I brought up the e-code
and I'm just comparing and it looks like this really was the only change that we made to >> because we thought there was another change because we had an older copy. >> Yeah. >> And I wanted to get rid of something in there. We had to do this having drinks on the sidewalk. >> Yeah. >> It said the restaurant couldn't do that
and that was changed like two years ago. >> Okay. That's what happened. All right. That's what you're thinking. >> Good memory. Yeah. >> On occasion. >> Yeah. I mean occasion. Occasionally. Not not this. >> Yeah. >> All right. >> So, yeah, we're good. >> Thanks. Um,
I don't technically count as a boo, but like I suddenly >> You're not too young. >> I mean, I know I'm not actually my parents are boomers, but you know, same thing. Um,
okay. So, any discussion of this one? >> No. Okay. I think we're good. All right. All those in favor? I >> I no extensions. Page 39.
What's this? H the city council move that it be ordered that the Greenfield city council amend the code of the city of Greenfield as written in the striketh through attached here to chapter 235 curfew section three definitions and further amends the index of the code and
further that non-substantive changes to the numbering of the ordinance be permitted in order that it be in compliance with the numbering format of the code of the city of Greenfield. Majority vote required. That's the only change. >> Good. Good.
>> I see your face and I see your shaking heads. I'm just curious. >> Debating. I want to say it. I don't know. Um, how is this unforcable? >> It is. >> Well, this is just one part of it. this
is uh this is a police thing and I did have a conversation with um about it a long time ago along with counselor Brown to be honest it was so many months ago that I'm not remembering the details and memory of the conversation
um >> it's separate this is just for youth the one that you're thinking of this is you I'm actually thinking I did I brought a whole bunch of things for Zoe cuz anything with policing I was a bit concerned about.
>> So my concerns were but it is related to it is a it is a point of interaction between youth and police um in the rest of this right now we're just updating guardian. So if you wanted to look at this
further, if anyone wanted to look at this further, they they could. But I know that. >> Yeah. >> Um, so does that feel okay? No. Yeah.
>> I kind of laugh at it because when I was 14, 15, there was no control. >> I know, right? >> While in the streets, I didn't get caught. Yeah, >> I did get caught once, but no, I know. I think the purpose is insane. >> Yeah,
>> that makes sense. There's a logic to this. There is a logic to this. >> Yeah. Yep. It's it's a complicated one actually. >> Yeah. >> Right now we're just adding guardian. So um so all those in favor of the
amendment to add guardians hearing nos or objections page 42. The city council moved that it be ordered that the Greenfield city council amend the code of the city of Greenfield as written and strike through attached here to chapter 265 farming section 4
disclosure notification and further amends table of contents and the index of the code and further that non-substantive changes to the numbering of the ordinance be permitted in order that it be in compliance with the numbering format of the code of the city
of Greenfield. Majority vote required. was just striking through the clause of um disclosure and notification >> required by MGL and this is online so people can it's not current this is not currently happening >> and
people can look it up online discussions all those in favor I know Okay. Uh 8:46, the city council moved that it be ordered that the Greenfield City Council amend the code of the city of Greenfield
by deleting the existing language in chapter 322, parks and recreation facilities in its entirety and replacing as written in the striketh through attached thereto and further amends table of contents and the index of the
code. and further that nonsubstantive changes to the numbering of the ordinance be permitted in order that it be compliance with the numbering format of the code of the city of Greenfield. Majority vote required. So I have a couple of thoughts. The the
first never occurred me before, but I wonder if we could like legislate somewhere in the code that like anytime we amend an ordinance, all of these things are implicit. So we don't have to keep reading this over and over again. Anyway, but there's some poetry to it.
It's like spoken word or something. I don't know. But anyway, I am um going to recommend that we vote to recommend this, but that it is held and but that the city council not vote on this this
month and vote on it in March because the lawyer pointed out um a couple months ago that when we remove the conservation land from this conservation land needs to become its own separate
ordinance and have a place in the code. Um, the clerk's office reached out to the conservation people and they said that they didn't they weren't asking for any other changes, so it would just be moving it. But I don't want the council to vote on this, strike this out and not
have the conservation stuff also be held in a separate place. So, I want to vote on this and the conservation land becoming its own ordinance simultaneously. So, we can still, we did the hearing, we could still vote on this, but to pause, note to Tammy to
pause and not bring this to the full council until it comes um consecutively simultaneously with conservation. >> Okay. >> Yeah. Okay. Um,
I have my own rules and regulations number one. >> Could you write that down just to so my brain knows that it's held? >> Yeah. and also
the pending chapter 365 smoking changes should also sorry be crossed that's Tammy that's not part of the ordinance and no smoking changes are coming forward
yet. You're pending the permission. So thanks. Yeah. >> Um, the rules and regulations for number one are number one is just criminalizing
homelessness for being out past dark. >> You should read it out. >> Wait. >> Parks are open dawn to dusk unless otherwise posted. For the purpose of these rules and regulations, dawn begins one half hour before sunrise and dusk ends one half hour after sunset. I think
we should be reprimanding behaviors, not just existing outside at night time. >> Is this the part of the ordinance though that the unhoused commission is working on? Because this >> all that needs to be done is just strike
out or rule one and then it's done. Then it's decriminalized. It's literally it. >> Yeah, >> because >> could do it right now. >> Well, then let's do that. >> Yes. >> Um, >> but I think that 11 and other pieces
have to do with I don't I don't know if is a zoning thing that they would have to adjust. So, you need campground zoning. Um, and we don't have that in Greenfield right now. So, that's its own thing. Um, and then this is separate from the youth
curfew ordinance. This is just saying like, >> yeah, totally. >> They're clo open and closed. And if the issue, like assuming that they want it closed so they can not have noise and other things going on at nighttime, like
we should just be enforcing the behaviors that we don't want to happen, like reprimanding those behaviors, not saying it's illegal to be outside at night, cuz it's not. I will also add there are some strange situations like for example the
dog park is um they have hours past dusk and especially at night in the winter time they actually have access to light in those parks so they're encouraging people to come after dark >> unless otherwise posted is in >> yeah it makes it really confusing because
then it's not a it's not cohesive throughout the city and then b like I said it's it's not what we're trying to enforce. There's two problems cuz when I talked to the Elsa Brown at the Mus >> Yeah. It's the National Homelessness Law
Center, Eric Cars said that that is literally just criminalizing homelessness. >> That's the purpose of that >> one and 11. Although there was a pro actually there was a problem on the common a few years
back. People pitched tents on the common and somebody was stabbed. I mean it was considered not okay. >> Right. And that's why I think the unhoused committee is looking at campground ordinance and zoning like its
own thing like to make a space that is zoning and >> like most campsites usually have like a camp manager. So I think that would likely be a part of it as well. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> So we should So one is so okay >> for the purposes of this one is the
problem not 11. >> I think one is the problem. Yes. >> Not 11. Could we also modify 11 and say camping for the purposes of recreation is not permitted >> is the are the is the national homelessness law center recommending
that we don't 11 yet? >> I do not know that. >> Okay. >> But I know that that is a zoning thing that the unhouse committee wants to tackle. >> Okay. So, here's what the the clerk's office is going to say. This is going to
meet in before it goes to um city council. So, if so, you're proposing you're proposing that we only strike through um number one, you're not proposing that we strike
through 11. Can you please also um Can you please also by the um 5-day rule, make sure that we don't also want to cross through or amend
number 11 so that we're ready so that this is >> comprehensive. >> Do we want to uh address any of these changes with the recreation commission? >> Um no, but there may be reasons for the language presented.
>> Yeah. So, so I think that it's always important to talk to other commissions or departments that are related. They may disagree and that's okay, >> but it's good to hear what they have to say. So, would you be willing to also
reach out to Christine director more and hear what she has to say? I'm seeing this as you are taking the lead on these changes um and sponsoring these changes so that I don't have to as a chair take responsibility for that conversation um
and of course she's welcome to come and you know share her thoughts we may disagree um but respectfully to >> so if we this will not come to the full council meeting then and then we could invite her to our next day no meeting.
>> We could invite if she wants to. >> Well, yeah, she's she yeah, she would be invited if she wants to come. Um I would say when we're considering the changes. So it may be at the next ANO meeting. Um and hopefully but only bring them
forward when you feel ready to do that. So it could be by the fiveday rule if you feel ready and if it's you don't feel ready then give it a time of meeting. If I can look into both of these and confer with for more get it to you then
>> yeah get it to Cathy. >> Get it to Cathy. Okay. >> Yeah. But when you send things to the clerk's office, always send it to Kathy, Tammy, and Quinn and then um Laura and John counselors in the CC. >> Okay.
>> Yeah. >> No. Tell me we're not putting this. We're not putting this forward. Um I'm not bringing I am not bringing this to a vote for recommendation because there's more work that's needed on it. Is there anything else that
anyone else wants to say? uh before we put it away. Did we want to add extra language to 111 or is that going to be up for >> I will ask um the homelessness law center about that and see what it says and then I will also confer with the ad
hoc gun house committee on what their plans for campaign is. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Is not6 is not being moved forward. >> No, >> that's what I just >> Yeah, it's it's on the tables. um at any
until further notice. >> That feel good. You good? Yes. >> Thank you for mentioning that. >> We are on page 61. >> Okay. I don't need to write anything for this vote. This vote did not happen. >> No, it didn't happen.
>> Okay. Oh, yes, you are correct. I'm just going to steal them. Um, Ernie Bernie,
>> the city council move that it be ordered that the Greenfield City Council amenda code of the city of Greenfield is written in the striketh through attached here 2, chapter 565, rules of procedure, section two, meetings subsection B,
special meetings and further amends the index of the code and further that non-substantive changes to the numbering of the ordinance be permitted in order that it be in compliance with the numbering format of the code of the city of Greenfield majority vote required.
Oh, wait. There's more. >> Yeah. So um this one's confusing because it just there's four things for the whole ornaments. I don't know why we have to I
don't this is not I disagree with the presentation of this uh >> where these go >> I don't think that we need to amend separately. My request to we can vote to
recommend each to say to make sure we've done our due diligence but request to Tammy when this comes to the full council. I do not believe that these need to be separate orders. I believe that there can be one order for the entire ordinance. Um and so please
please put forward one order for the entire ordinance and if they have a doubt about the legality of that just consult a lawyer to make sure. So because this question will come up in the future if but this has never come up before I think
>> as one motion. >> Yeah. One motion for the entire ordinance and all the colors. Make the colors consistent. The different colors have been for our tracking. Please make the colors one
color and consistent with you know colored colors for changes, strike through for deletions, bold for additions. But she wanted us to know who she did and made the changes >> and thank you and and thank you for
doing that in the meantime. That was that was good in the meantime, right? >> But I don't think that the entire council needs such detailed >> to know who said what when. >> No. >> Okay. >> You said to cross remove all of the colorcoded language.
>> Yeah. don't have it have one color for changes like in other ordinance amendments strike through for deletion a bold for addition >> but do I mean to just say delete the highlighted in blue yellow all that
>> yeah thank you >> and thank you Tammy for for doing that for our sake. In the meantime, that was helpful. Um I am going to just ask for the entire ordinance if folks have questions about anything in the ordinance because we do not I believe need to segment our
thinking with this. Um, is there anything that anyone would want to change? >> Yeah. Communications to the city council. >> Which which number? >> Um, it's on page 71
number 565-7. It's a D. Communications to the city council. >> Yep. >> A I feel like it's grammatically incorrect at the end. And B, we talked
to Quinn about auto forwarding emails to us as opposed to sending copying. So just wanting to make sure that language works legally in the future. I think maybe the suggestion would be
taken out can be copied copied like I need to read the thing. Um, okay. >> President of the matters of interest to the council and which would not in the normal course of council business referred to the city council be referred
to the city council. Is that what it's supposed to say? >> Although I didn't get that by myself. And which would not in the normal course of also business. Yes, it needs a B there. Good catch. So you wanted to say will be forwarded.
>> I think it can just say sent be referred to the city council for action will be distributed to each city each individual council >> strike through copied and >> yes. >> Okay. >> Yeah.
I do catch this message. repeat any challenges. Just going to take a minute, I think, to breathe through all this. Does this modify the consent agenda or
is this an addition? >> It's an addition. Um on where is it? 5659 page 74 goes A B C.
>> I'm still on page 74. >> It crosses out D and adds C again. >> And crosses out E and adds D. >> Uh just tell Gary, please don't do that.
Thank you. Details. >> There was a preamble that didn't make it in here. I wrote it. >> Excuse me. A preamble. >> Yep. >> Where? >> I sent it to you. >> Yeah, that's right. >> To me. >> Mhm. And to
>> when? >> A few weeks ago >> when I was away. Did I? >> I sent it. But I also sent it to Kathy and Quinn and everybody and their mother. What? Tell me more. >> The preamble for the consent agenda. You >> have it written.
>> I had it written. I sent it written. See if I have her written on here. I think I do. >> That's strange. If you was I sent it a few weeks ago. I just >> And I sent it to Sarah. I sent it to Sarah Brown. >> Yeah. >> I checked.
>> I hadn't been looking at my email for a couple of weeks while I was away and I just looked at all of it and I I don't think I got it. Okay, here it is. The public is welcome to address issues listed on the consent agenda as part of the public comment section of the greater city council meeting agenda.
That was a preamble and I sent it. >> Yeah, I thought I got a thank you from you. >> From me? >> Yeah, I thought I did. >> Is this possible? Again, memory memory issues, but I really am not. >> Okay. >> Um, but I >> because I I sent it I sent it. very
possible that I did respond and >> okay when I sent the draft ordinance I sent it at the exact same day. >> It's on um it was January 21st. >> You have it? >> Well, January 15th. Where is it? Your language. I drafted this language with
Max's help. Oh, is this different? >> You have a proposed agenda. Proposed agenda preamble are a public comment. >> Yeah. >> Oh, wait. Is that my thing? That's something that you to me. >> No, that's different. That's public comment and everything. This is not >> They're not the same thing.
>> Wait a second. Preamble to the ordinance. >> Preamble to the consent agenda. >> Yeah. Could I read it? It'll help me. I >> The public is welcome. If you don't have an email about consent
agenda, I don't I don't have my I have no access to the computer. Anyway, >> did Kathy respond? Um, Williams, what would you have called it? >> To the consent agenda,
>> because we had a discussion saying we wanted to make it clear to the public. >> We did >> that they could speak on any item on the consent agenda during public comment. >> Right. And so I drafted language with
councelor W's help to go onto agendas but not to be made law. Uh and then I sent that to >> Okay. I'm not seeing this, but that's beside the that that's beside the point. This is
um >> So, you've already done this is would you >> Yeah, I I put forward language, but it's but this but it's editable. And in fact, I'm considering now doing what I tried to do right after. So, can I'm going to tangent I'm going to tangentify you here
for a sec. Right after um the ceasefire vote, I put forward in the meeting after that, I put forward language that was different than that about um public comment being required at subcommittee meetings. I got a lot of
backlash in that in that meeting. Um and was like, okay, I'm going to pull it. But now I'm considering actually putting that forward as as law to make public comment required at every subcommittee meeting. that is different than and that and that could actually end up in the
rules of now that I'm thinking the rules of procedure. Um I know I sent it to Sarah Brown. >> That's okay. No, no, no. the the the what matters is that we it just it it just occurred to me like
two days ago that so this public rule 12 so 56512 I have language that I that I tried to put forward like in March of last year that would require subcommittees to have public comment and
public participation. This would go under that part, the p public participation part. So actually, >> but the isn't the consent agenda just for city council meetings?
>> It is just for city council meetings. >> That's what I'm talking about. But this is about public participation >> in in city council meetings >> and this is all the rules of city council >> right >> rules of procedure for city council
>> that's why that's that's why I wrote it I thought it was >> right right now I >> specific for the consent agenda for the city council meetings >> I understand and
given that there's a separate clause on public participation I'm wondering if this gets added there as opposed to about how we do the consent agenda meetings like this is you want to make sure that that the com that
the the public shall be able to address, right? There's like they're welcome to address may go on the agenda. You want to make sure that that it's law that they can address it, right? Yeah. >> Right. And so therefore, I'm thinking that this might go under the part public
participation area, which which it's occurring to me after through conversations about the language that we put forward that we could strengthen that part also by adding by making public comment required at subcommittee meetings. So I'm thinking about bringing
these pieces together under that part, >> okay, >> of the ordinance. And so I'm thinking I don't know if there's a rush to get forward this consent agenda. What it's occurring to me is that before we pass one part of it, maybe we want to pass all of it
together, table this toward the next meeting. Um, and I can put forward language that includes this and the language that I had before about public participation. Does that work? >> Whatever works. >> Okay. >> Whatever works. >> Okay.
>> So you can take a minute. However, 77 through 80. >> Yeah. >> That does that I'm kind of thinking out loud. Is that making sense? >> Yeah. Yeah. >> My question was that um
Sorry, I was trying to follow publication like 56512. >> Yeah. is for council meetings, committee meetings, subcommittee meetings, everybody. >> All of our rules of city council rules of procedure. Okay.
>> And I have that language, >> but rule 12 doesn't affect subcommittees or commissions >> currently doesn't well currently doesn't include it doesn't none of this will so subcommittees and commissions are different. So subcommittees of the
council this >> this not yet it could. So this law is all about how the um city council operates. It doesn't apply to other boards and commissions. >> So it's it's the umbrella about city
council. Therefore it can't apply to public participation for boards and other boards and commissions, but it could include our subcommittees. And currently, although it is current practice that our subcommittee chairs now invite public comment, that's not law. And I still want to make that law.
And now that people aren't freaking out about at me about ceasefire or resolution now, I think we can pass that. So that's I'm going to bring that forward next month. >> Okay, sounds great. >> Yeah. Okay. >> Took a picture.
>> I did. Yeah. Thanks for taking me. That feel good? Okay. All right. Thank you, Tammy and clerks for your patience with this order. And please still take into account everything else
we just said. Um, so that when it comes forward, you don't have to write all these notes again. I'm I'm going to send an email to myself. Okay. Committee
comments and click on my shoulders like Rice Krispie treats. It's crunchy crunchy roll here. It's just >> I have a brilliant ins.
>> So, we digress. Coming back. Coming back. All right. Where are we now? >> We are now at your ordinance. >> Oh, good. >> We've arrived. >> Oh, good. >> I think we we have we have we just make sure. >> Yes, we have. We have arrived.
>> Yay. All righty. So, let me chat quickly about this. Hope people understand what the hell I'm talking about. So, um I've been on the uh L. You gave us the Just know that you we were you plugged this in last time
too. I'm sorry I interrupted you. >> Yeah, I don't know. What are you saying? >> You gave us the you shared the rationale behind this last time. >> Okay, so I don't need to go through that again. >> You do. All right, then I won't. Yeah, it's very easy. >> I think it's Yeah.
>> And you want >> I was given a name um which that piece of paper is somewhere in my house. uh the account that would be for the maintaining of the properties there is an account that's a name of an account has been suggested by Steven okay
>> of finance okay in terms of it being >> you know two we're talking about two different accounts that are restricted >> to clear and no other purpose not to be mixed with general funds etc >> and actually donations have already
started coming in for the tax fund >> which is lovely >> so there's some money already without being solicited at all. >> That's fantastic. >> So that money is already coming in. But this the reality of this situation is it's going to once in a blue moon this
is going to happen because when houses are taken the tax title and sold there are people who the equity there are people there who are either the owners the heirs of the owners or somebody who's going to who can claim equity. >> Yeah. In the event that there isn't
anybody, this is the scenario. Then that happens, right? >> That makes sense. >> Yeah. >> Okay, that's that sounds great. >> Do you We've gotten all those emails from Elma and can do you do you know
next steps to make sure his concerns are So I want to say thank you. >> See that my talents getting sharpened. >> Thank you for your work on this. Yes. And um >> I have I I Al has done a huge amount of
work around this question. He really has. He did the research on the state law, etc. and so on. But right now there is a disagreement. My I have not been told this directly by Al. I've heard it through other people. He doesn't want to see any money going towards the
maintenance question. He wants all the money to go to the tax fund. That's my understanding of this at this point. I have not been told this directly by him. Okay. Um he obviously had access to this ordinance because it's been online. Um
so we'll see. I half expected to see him here tonight >> to speak on it, but that did not happen. So um I'm sure you know when the time comes for this to go before the council, he will then speak on that question.
>> Can you I guess this is my request. He writes very long long emails, but I am not in the legal ease of it. Can you can you and maybe this is redundant like you're probably already doing this, but if you could like look at what he's
saying and just make sure that his objections are addressed to the extent. >> I have not I have not received anything from him. >> Okay. >> When do these these emails come in? >> Are you the only one getting these emails? The two of us. The two of us are
getting emails. Several. >> You and who? >> You. >> You and me. >> When did these come in? >> Today. >> Okay. I have not seen them >> because I haven't had I have not had access >> internet. Okay. There's And he's like
sending stuff and then two hours later asking that we confirm receipt of them and and I was working today. So I just see that he's sending a lot of stuff. Um, if you can look it through, >> I will take care of it. >> And be able to
>> I will take care of it. >> Thank you so much. Yes. >> I just can't wrap my mind around that. >> I will take care of >> And one of his requests is that the lawyer looks at it just like Yes. Any new ordinance the lawyer will look at. >> Exactly. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah. All right.
>> I should have We should have I should have internet tomorrow or the following day. Tomorrow I will not be I will not be looking at internet tomorrow but on Friday I will be. >> Perfect. >> Okay. >> Yeah. Thanks. No rush. No rush for my sake. Just >> I will take care of it.
>> I that's what my response to him will be. Councelor Williams will be in touch with his office. >> I will do that. >> Thank you. >> Um any other It looks great to me though. >> But any Yeah, I support the account created for maintenance of properties.
Like that's a >> tool that we need to combat loss of housing. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Exactly. >> Yes. Very logical. >> Pragmatic. >> Yes. And extremely >> and I hope you know that that discussion
I had with um the mayor. >> Okay. >> Regarding that issue because there's no money to do that. >> Yes. >> None. >> And we need money to do that if that happens. >> Appreciate it. Any other discussion on this one? >> No.
>> Great work. I am curious you got back from the finance department so quickly. >> Yeah. 6 months but >> but no, >> well, I asked the mayor >> to give you the name of the >> response law. >> So therefore,
>> hit them with the 10day response law. >> Yeah, you shouldn't have to do that. You shouldn't have to do >> and use your counsel email. Are you using your counseling? >> I sent it to Aaron using a counseling email and she said she'd get back to me.
She's not taking care. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Every day. >> Okay. Okay. >> Well, I'm going to go up to the top of the document and make sure I'm not skipping any steps before I close the meeting. >> Okay. Did we actually vote on those four
ordinances collectively? We did not vote on them. We tabled them because I'm bringing forward a new piece. Okay. And um and also request to Tammy when it comes to us also for there to be one order next time. There doesn't have to
be several orders for us. >> So let me just ask a question then. So now >> for that ordinance >> for the the rules of procedure. >> No, no, for your ordinance my ordinance, >> what's the next step? What the next step
is get it complete. What feels complete to you by having uh the attorney make sure that it is in compliance with the law >> and structured I think make sure it's in
compliance and good and you have the go-ahhead >> and then um that's through the clerk's office. clerk >> and um and then when it feels ready to bring it to us and just be ready to
address Elman's objections um either by incorporating something into the ordinance or by just being able to say I disagree or I have done the things that you wanted to or I'm not going to. However you address the objections would be helpful. >> Okay. So the thing is is to make sure
it's legal >> legal >> to Kathy >> Scott. Mhm. >> Once I get that kiss, then I can move it to back to here. >> Yeah. >> And it can become and it can be ready. There's no other discussion. We're all in support. It can be ready for a hearing.
>> Okay. >> Good. >> Yeah. >> Amazing. >> Great. Okay. So the next meeting Oh, so the next meeting is the next item. Kai's 18th birthday is March 11th. So I am not
meeting that day. And I asked the clerk's office to survey you all. Um Tammy said that March 5th looked like it was better for folks. Yeah, >> I'll be at the station. >> Something else. I don't know what it is.
I didn't bring my book. I'm sorry. >> Okay. >> Sorry. >> That's okay. March 5th would be at 6:30. If we did March 11th, it would be at 6. >> No, we're not doing March something. >> March 9th. March 9th at the at the library, which felt cozier to me. But if
you're >> Yeah, I can't do March 9th. I can do March 5th at 6:30. >> Okay. >> I will check back. >> Okay. >> Check March 5th. >> Yeah. Um, what day of the week is that? June
Thursday. Is it Thursday? >> Thursday. >> Circle commission meets every first Thursday. >> Okay. So, we definitely have a quorum for March. >> Okay. Thursday. >> We only need three. >> We only need three to form a quorum. I mean, I want everyone to be able to be
there, but if if >> No, then Okay. >> You'll let Can you um email the me and the and um the clerks about it? >> Yep. please. Okay.
All right. Got it. All right. So, want to take a motion to adjourn. >> We need to >> I don't think that Where's the minutes?
>> I think that they were included. Um >> Oh, you're right. We totally skipped over that. My apologies. Yes, that's from 84. Thank you. Um, can I have a motion to approve the minutes?
>> I just say moved and I need second. Yes. And any discussion? >> I have one which is really really minor, but I don't know if it matters. Great. Um only because uh council man was here
as a member of the public not and so it says council man and members of the public. That's really tiny and I was just like I don't know if that matters. >> Um >> yeah he wasn't invited as a counselor. >> I think that that matters. >> You can say as a member of the public
>> and I add that to the PDF to give us more space. I'm surprised too that we don't because we have access to this in the Google Drive and everything. We can't just digitally suggest edits and then post that as public comic as post that to the
public because we're the public doesn't have access to that. >> Could you repeat what I need to do >> you would ask me in the middle of a thought, >> right? Okay. Okay. So, what you need? I know what you need. When it says also also present strike and members add as a
member. >> Yeah. >> I can't deliberate. I think it that might count as deliberation. >> I'm sorry. What? And I I what page is it on? So, I can >> page five >> here. Thank you.
>> Straight. I mean quite literally have like that like >> add our notes digitally >> during the meeting. >> During the meeting. Yes. >> It's a fantastic idea. >> Right. Well, because I mean the public doesn't get to see that unless they phone copy and attach it to the minutes,
you know. >> That's a fantastic idea. Um it would likely require work on the folks art, but I don't know how much work it would be. >> Oh, I can ask >> you talking to them about it. >> Yeah, I can ask. a CCU of it or
>> Nope. >> Okay. >> Unless there's some unless you get to a point where I need to be trained or something. >> No, I just didn't know if it was like a you know because it was part of this committee. >> Yeah. No, thank you for asking. >> Yeah. No, I'm I'm the facilitator.
>> Wait till we figure out hyperlinks. >> Yeah. What do you want to figure out? >> Hyperlinks in the agendas. >> Dear Lord, save me. Tell me now. It's off the record to the next generation. We're teaching
you about race. >> All right. So, um, adjourning. Can I have a motion to adjourn? >> Do you want to do it again? Because they already move. They already motioned once. >> Then we did. Yeah. But now we're now
we're back on topic. So, it's been motioned and seconded and now we Um maybe never mind. Um I just realized I'm not going to say um >> actually before you I need to write down the vote for the minutes and for
adjourning. >> Yes. >> Okay. Approval of minutes and >> Okay. Um, all those in favor of adjourning at >> I >> I >> 7:56 p.m. I
no extensions at 7:56 p.m. Yay.