##VIDEO ID:7bEBlBgPcgQ## so I would like to officially call to order this meeting of the Greenfield Conservation Commission on January 14th 2025 at 6:50 PM this meeting is being held in a hybrid format uh should as Kristen mentioned earlier any technical Interruption to the meeting occur and the meeting is suddenly ended uh it will not be resumed and all items will automatically be continued to the next scheduled meeting date this meeting is being recorded by the Conservation Commission if any other persons present are during the same you must notify the chairperson at this time current on Community Center include myself Elizabeth gar follow the chair um via Zoom we have Kristen Vice chair Erica and Emily also here with us this evening in the johnon center is Jessica our conservation agent and with that our first item on the agenda is approval of minutes from last meeting you want to do roll call a motion roll call first call to order roll call sorry can you hear me Liz yes I can now do we have to do a roll call of attendance for for commission members um she did just say whoever was there we don't have to pH physically say we haven't in the past but we can do that just to make sure we've got our te's crossed if you would prefer again I differ to you having been on the commission longer than I have I don't remember honestly that's fair um so in that case uh would you are you comfortable just proceeding to the minutes to approving minute yeah every everyone that Liz just mentioned is present um I motion to are are you all reviewing the minutes from last yeah all motion to approve the meeting minutes from what the the I'll second the the 10th of December yeah okay I had I had a couple of well Kristen's checking still just um clerical things that the F very first part says Kristen called the meeting to order at 6:31 but then the next sentence says that Kristen was late and arrived at 6:40 we'll get that sorted out oh I think I did join I had a Hy meeting the same night yeah but it's just it just it said you that you started it at 6:31 and and arrived at 6:40 let me just look at my calendar really quick meeting that night maybe I did start the meeting and that was a legacy kind of typo from the last meeting because I did have a meeting with Hadley at some point but I don't think I had one on the 10th I can't remember I can double check my notes and update it I I think that it was a carryover from the previous minutes thanks Jessica um I thanks ER for pointing that out does the Conservation Commission see any need for any other further amendments to the meeting minutes from our last meeting not seeing anything no okay so we have a motion from christien and a second from Emily um so let's go ahead and take a vote Erica hi Kristen hi Emily I I motion passes let's jump into our next agenda item and that is our public hearing request for determination of applicability construction of two prefabricated metal buildings and parking at 001 Adams road map r05 lot 28a the proposed work consists of the construction of two pre-fabricated buildings with slab on grade foundation and parking for 12 cars the work will be separated into two phases with the second building comprising phase two as an addition and only constructed should phase one prove financially successful do we have folks here representing this project there's two that are in attendance it's Echo you and noberto Leon and I can draw up the plans and we also did a site visit great thank you for joining us this evening thank you e are we waiting for an applicant to present we're trying to pull up the plans oh okay great okay thank you once again for your patience um Norberto if you would like to uh walk us through this project that would be wonderful sure great thank you my name is uh Norberto Leon and I'm I'm the architect for the project and uh so yes we are asking for a uh determination of applic applicability for this project and uh right now my client is in the process of uh purchasing this property so we haven't done any kind of surveys or anything like that to determine where the wetlands are or anything like that so we've relied on the information that has been given to us by the seller at this point and one of the items is this uh site plan but as you can see uh there's no Wetlands information it's just uh property boundaries information so I highlighted in red the the lot and uh so it's uh it's right there in the in the center and then it's uh on the left side is route two and then uh we have Adams Road the old Adams Road and the new Adams Road basic basically creating a kind of like a triangular shaped uh site and on the left side uh closest to route two is where there appears to be some some wetlands and a stream if we can move on to the next uh slide so this is information from the uh massgis and uh route two here is now at the bottom of each one of these uh views on the left is the aerial view and on the right is the uh topographic and uh site uh characteristic information so as you can see on on the bottom there's there appears to be some wetlands and there's a uh that that stream and uh we are proposing to build on the opposite side uh course the on the more pointy side of the uh of the uh LA on the North side basically and let's uh take a look at the next slide and I try to try to make sense of taking the existing site plan that that we have and the mass GIS information to try to figure out where the where the wetlands are and where the stream is approximately and what you're seeing here is a diagram that shows you in red the actual Sur survey information that we have and then in a yellow boundary is the mass GIS information so as you can see they're just not they're not in sync so determining where exactly the the uh the uh wetlands are in the Stream is is a little bit difficult but we've tried to like take an educated guess uh it looks like most of the wetlands is outside of our property and it looks like a a small part part of the stream basically Clips the south of the uh of the property so um if we can move on to the next slide so this is our best guess of where things are and uh you can see the proposed structure is on is on the North side opposite side of where the wetlands is on the on the south side of the property and we've uh Illustrated the 25t uh setback and 100t setback and uh the the first proposed structure is it looks like it's outside of that 100 foot boundary and then uh we're proposing um parking spaces for 12 cars some of it is uh perious surface and and some of it is perious surface this structure is going to be a prefabricated uh building single story slab on grade uh nothing too uh complex in terms of the foundations and trying to basically uh do as minimal uh work on the site as possible there is some clearing that is going to have to happen there are several trees on the site um and once we you know purchase the property and do a survey we we'll get the that information on the trees but most of the clearing will happen on the north side of the site so that we can we can get the parking and the building in there and we don't plan to do anything on the South Side uh closest to the wetlands you can't see this by this diagram but there is a on the South Side closest to the wetlands there's a a very kind of like a steep drop in the topography uh maybe about 20 ft or so that basically starts maybe around the 25t setback or somewhere between the 25t and the 100 foot setback so it's it's when you're out in the site you can it's very clear you know where where the where the SE where the bound uh the wetlands boundary is and it's it's that steep uh that steep drop in in the topography uh the next plan you don't have to show it it's just a it's just a a diagram showing the the the proposed building the interior but for the purposes of this conversation I think we just can stay on on this illustration here uh so that's that's it for me I I welcome any questions uh comments uh Echo is there anything that you'd like to say um I think noberto you pretty much covered it um I think right now we're not sort of in the process of purchasing the property we sort of before that we're trying to determine if there is enough space for us to build what we are hoping to build and then hence why we're here and then once we reach a determination that's kind of when we make the decision to move forward with the purchase or not and that's kind of why um we haven't we decided to not invest like so much on a plot plan with a wetland scientist and whatnot because we don't know if we are able to move forward with a project we're not without you know essentially approval from the Conservation Commission yeah thank you for clarifying that Echo um because I did just want to point out the the stream there um so two two comments for me one is the phase two addition if that's within so first of all the D Wetlands the from massgis is just an estimated Wetlands data layer it's not um it's not accurate it's usually really underestimated so if you were anywhere within 100 feet you would definitely want to do a wetland delineation but also the the city ordinance has a Wetlands protection bylaw that requires a 200 foot Riverfront setback for streams including intermittent streams so if there is an actual stream there you would be looking at a 200 foot River Front as well under the ordinance not under the state but under the local yeah uh I think with a 200 feet setback as you can see the 100 feet setback is already pretty much half of the parcel of the entire property so if we have to build with 200 feet um I just think when Jessica and I visited and noberto was there too um the parcel itself is pretty small I just think if we were to follow that 200 fee we pratically practically don't have any surface area to build on or to really utilize utilize that land at all well it's not a it's not a no build it's there are performance standards and as long as you can meet those performance standards then you can develop within them but um yeah okay good to know are there any sorry are there any guidelines for what those performance standards are or are those determine once we go to the next hearing uh and and you guys see where things are exactly in terms of you know a survey actually that's done yeah noberto I'm not going to lie to you the performance standards for developing in Riverfront area are really complicated and our ordinance pretty much says whatever the wetlands protection act the state Wetlands protection act says for their perennial streams is what our city ordinance is going to mimic for intermittent streams and that's under Wetland protection act 10.58 and it's five pages long it's the busiest section of the whole state Wetlands protection act um I would suggest hiring a wetland consultant to help you navigate that it's complicated Jessica did you have any pictures from the site let's look at those I took a camera out and it was really cold and halfway through I think the battery froze and so I apologize if there's kind of repeats because then I used my phone after that but um basically what you're going to find is this lot is really thick with um like Bramble and kind of that dog hair thick um looks like invasive speed yeah invasives um Bitter Sweet Str trees um so one of the things that I noticed in the aerial photo was there happened to be almost like a bald patch um in the center of the lot and I didn't know if maybe that was another Wetland that wasn't marked on massgis data and I hiked in and it's basically like a Brier patch um and that's kind of we can look at the overhead aerial photo later but that's what you're seeing right now is um like it's really low uh low-lying C you know under story kind of thing there's no big trees it's just um like a Thicket and so this is um we're I think I'm a little bit into the woods but from the side of the Road from what what road is that um that's two we're on Adam's Road looking um that's route two over there yeah like Southeast yeah in the distance you can see the stream right the running through the middle of the picture there yeah so that's the stream um if you go more over here it's like almost hard to like really see the w um but that's the stream again and the wetlands to the left and keep going so that's so I just like pivoted a little so that's the Wetland um that low-lying light brown and then you can see what noberto was referring to is that it the hill kind of sharp there's a sharp kind of delineation between the flat maybe is like like a the flood plane of the stream and then it's like Hillside immediately there you can see that there oh yeah you can see the Wetland veg that those bidens right there on the left right at that too [Music] break so yeah that's just still like the Wetland Zone um two yeah route two this is where I think some of the repeats here um so this is just kind of like to give a feel for what the woods is like um in like the bulk of the property um to the north of the Bramble so is this the area they be they want to yeah yeah that last one that's the North End looking down south if you go back that's the Northend Central and then the other photo we just looked at was if we're on Adams Road not old Adams Road that's the light on yeah and Adams gotcha and then this is the north corner like kind of the peak of the triangle uh this okay so I think this is where I go to now I'm on the camera but um this is I'm standing on old old Adams Road looking towards Adam's Road and there's just like this slight incline to get into the lot um but yeah it's really thick I mean really thick with vegetation it was very hard to even enter the lot to get any photos okay so this is the end of old Adams Road it kind of dead ends even though the the map on the plans make it seem like a connected triangle of roads it's old Adam's Road ends with this guard rail and then that Creek runs on the other side but like not just on the other side it's very close to route two it kind of looks like the topography slops up to the right or to the east I'm assuming you're facing north right no I'm face I'm at the end of old Adams Road so I'm facing fa South at this point where's the stream in this I'm confused because it looks like there's a slope on the right is like way on the other side of that guard rail you can kind in the distance there's like a a road kind of parallel to the guard rail I don't know if you see that like yeah yeah that's route two gotcha okay yeah that's just another shot looking up old Adams Road okay so this is I'm on Old Adams Road and I'm just like looking in the woods trying my best to get like some sort of photo um okay there happened to be this uh White p that you can see in the distance and I on the aerial photo I just kind of felt like that might have been the southern end of their plans yeah I when you were talking about seeing like a dark spot on the aeriel it does look like an Eastern White Pine yeah yeah and then there's like a bald spot near it that's the Bramble whatever it is BlackBerry I don't know sweet yeah so this is basically it for the photos um just you know you enter the property you have to go up slope a little bit um yeah there's a little burm but um not so much of a burm off Adams Road just on Old Adams Road that's everything okay um and I did do if you go back to the main um main folder there's the ark map screenshot so you see that bald spot in the middle that looks sort of like a meadow that's the Bramble and you can kind of see the White Pond yes I feel like the this phase two probably dips into that ramble so are we are we looking for a determination this evening or are you just looking to kind of gauge the commission's mood on how this would be permittable given the ordinance and the resource areas I think both if possible of course like you know we want to show our faces present our project see what you guys feedback are um cuz like under what permissible condition can the project move forward but also if we can also reach a decision of some sort that would be very helpful in helping us decide and coordinate on our end how to you know what if there are next steps and what they would be yeah did you officially file an RDI yes I did so if we issued you a positive determination that would require a notice of intent and that would probably I mean I don't can we even issue a negative under if it's in jurisdic if it's in our local jurisdiction or would it be I don't know I guess let me back up I feel like in my opinion phase one could maybe fall under a negative determination but not phase two because it's in 100f foot and we would want to see a delineation under the Wetland protection act but under the ordinance it would be a positive determination in my opinion because it's in 200t Riverfront for intermittent stream that sounds right to me as well so do you applicants want to I don't know like having a positive determination is not great because I don't know I do you want to I guess I don't want to tell you what to do but you could either continue with your RDA and we could issue a partial negative determination under though you know just for phase one under the Wetland protection act and then a positive determination under the local ordinance or you could just maybe resend it and file a noce of in 10 I guess my first time sort of working with Wetlands protection like this so I don't fully understand what the implication are for a positive or A negative a positive is basically you're you have to refile something different you have to file a notice of intent a negative means it sounds anti-intuitive but a negative determination is a good thing and a positive determination is a bad thing okay that makes sense and then I guess I have one followup question with that 200 feet setback from the riverfront um wouldn't phe one then also technically fall into that 200 ft then so I guess how does that work so we have to file a permit determination under both the state regulations and also the local regulations and they are not the same so you might get a negative determination which is good under just for phase one under the state regulations but a positive determination which is bad under the local regulations you would still have to file a notice of 7 10 so I just was wondering if maybe what you would want to think about is just instead of paying all the filing fees if it's not too late I don't even know if it is too late but I don't know I don't know that I def defer to Jessica on on how to deal with all the filing fease but so one question that I do have and so my understanding is that you currently do not own the property can they file an noi if they do not own the property if they have the if they if the applicant has the owner's permission I think they can the the owner has to sign the noi form though you can't they can't you know file it on behalf of the owner without the owner's authorization and given that both phases would fall into the 200 foot Zone for the local ordinance um as as the as this question I think is to the applicant um do you want to potentially have a better understanding of what those requirements for proceeding with building are before you go any further down this particular path so given that's the case Kristen you mentioned potentially resending a request for determination was that what I don't I so I think rdas don't go to D there's no fee under the state I don't know if we have a local fee but nois are substantially more expensive and require Butters notifications and you know all that stuff so and like I said the the 200 foot Riverfront performance standards are complicated so I it's not a deal breaker I don't want to scare you guys off it's totally doable you just have to demonstrate compliance with those performance standards and it's complicated so you probably want to hire somebody who understands that but but I I think I think my question is does the applicant want to proceed with further um paperwork if you will with the commission or get a little bit more information on what you need to do before you proceed to the point of noi so given all of that information do you like we need to find out sounds like we need to find out a little bit more what that uh those additional regulations would be before yeah because it's it's like you guys said it's complicated and we are within the 200 um foot uh setback of the stream so I would say give us a little bit of time to think about it and take a look at what those regulations are and uh talk to somebody I was G to suggest I don't maybe I don't know if it makes any difference maybe just submitting just your phase one and not even putting phase two on right now you know might be easier to get that through I don't ant yeah it just sounds like we're going to fall within that 200 B 200 foot boundar right there there is also an anti- segmentation Clause so if you know you're definitely going to do phase two it's better to show that up front because you will get spanked for it later if you don't okay sorry I don't think that that's [Laughter] Christen I don't so it sounds to me like there's one of two directions that we can go in and I would ask the applicant to determine which one seems the most appealing to you is I think the resending of the uh RDA uh or Kristen correct me if I'm wrong we could also um table this for now and put it to our next um meeting and at that point you would have had the opportunity the applicant would have had that opportunity to do some more research and understand exactly what it is that they're going to um need to do as it relates to that 200 foot buffer zone um and so I I think the choice of of that would be up to the applicant is that a fair assessment um yeah I think that you're right Liz so I think that you can either withdraw your application or we can I mean we can continue this till the next meeting and you can think about it but you do have the opportunity to withdraw it if you want does that decision have to be made right now or can we uh give it talk a little bit right now yeah Contin yeah I think yeah we can continue this to our next schedule next uh scheduled meeting and then you come back with your decision then which would be okay um give me see with the 28th of January all right so are we looking is that is that what you want to [Music] do continue yeah let's do that yeah I agree okay um so we're looking for a motion to continue to January 28th um if that if that's what noberto Echo that's what you want I'll motion to continue the request for determination of applicability for construction of two prefabricated metal buildings and parking it number one Adams road map R5 L 28a to January 28th Conservation Commission hearing second great so we've had a motion and seconded let's go ahead and vote Emily I Erica I Kristen hi I'm also an I so we will if see you um in a couple weeks thank you thank you for coming in good night thank you okay next on our agenda uh is a public hearing continued from December 10th 2024 notice of intent maintenance of roadways and drainage systems on i91 routs 2510 D number 1680 363 uh this Massachusetts Department of Transportation project proposes routine maintenance of existing roadways including widening less than a single Lane adding shoulders correcting substandard intersections improving existing drainage systems and repaving okay the um updated draft conditions are in the G drive and I'm going to try to bring it up yeah it's right here I go to zo which one is it like I can right oh yeah which one okay you want me to do anything or share on my end um no I just there it is yeah okay thank you got it okay so this is basically the finalized draft conditions there's just a couple things I would like some input on because I'm unfamiliar uh with the topic so has the commission had an opportunity to read these yes I have a global question so um typically bundled notices of intent are for routine operation and maintenance not for expansion of existing roads um but I was just curious if DP had any comment on that the comments that I've seen from Mark Stinson are the ones that you've seen from him uh from your your first draft okay and it seemed like him and Billy were kind of worked a bit on this CU When when it got when the Baton got passed to me and I had a meeting with the two of them he said that he's basically like done advising on it like he's given his input and everything that's there like he's commented on and like that was kind of the end of his involvement uh so I don't want to assume but I would I would have thought that he would have made it clear he didn't think it should go in if he didn't think it should go in you know I just want to like just for the record for the Commissioners just point out that a lot of what these and this is a long document but a lot of what this is is like routine operation and maintenance but the expansion of an existing like or the widening of an of an existing roadway to to less than a single Lane adding shoulders and correcting substandard intersections this if if we all agree that would be covered under this blanket noi and they wouldn't come before the commission necessarily with a new permit application do you know off hand Kristen anywhere or anyone on the commission who has had a chance to review this um is there anywhere in here that says that there are certain conditions or stipulations which which which must be met in order for such a sweeping um project to be uh undertaken without coming before the commission yeah so D do asked for there to have one of their appointed Specialists Wetland specialist on site to oversee the construction but you know this this is not exempt work um there there are exemptions for roadway widening but that's more than what the exemption is um but we can go through that I just wanted to just point that out and that was one of my comments in the one of the original drafts I thought that was a big ask um but nobody came back and said anything so that was just my one comment I don't disagree with you I find that a little concerning as well and I've done bundled nois before and it's usually for General operation and maintenance so things like filling potholes um if you have like reing and gullying and uh an access road that's within jurisdiction you can just fix it without with just a notice to the commission um clearing out culverts that are clogged as long as that's in compliance with other rules and regulations um replacing rip wrap or broken head walls of CTS but not replacing CTS that kind of stuff just routine operation and maintenance even invasive species management as long as there's some kind of notice to the commission and there's different categories you can see where there's some categories of onm that doesn't require notice some that does require notice some that requires review by the agent Andor concom and some that's going to require a whole new permit but that was the one thing that I was just kind of little surprised about that they were proposing to expand roads how did the other conser conservation can kist do you know exactly where your talk where you're where you saw that where you yes that was in their noi application that was what they were asking for oh okay okay because because because in in in what Jessica's written out it says that it's not doesn't fall under you know the the widening of ofad roadways is not R oh if it's more than a what does it say if it's more than the width of a single sing oh okay yeah but that language appears to suggest that the addition of a whole whole Lane of Road would fall under this blanket noi okay and I think Kristen that's sort of concern that you're bringing up yeah like if it's in Riverfront I mean then they wouldn't have to do any mitigation or compensatory storage if it's in bordering land subject of flood um they wouldn't you know what I mean I I just and plus this is being used as an example for the rest of the state so we want to make sure we get this really right so I I don't know that was just my my only comment from the very start that but if Mark's okay with it if D's okay with it I I guess we don't really have much to say unless it conflicts with our bylaw which we still have Mark will never comment on our bylaw and how we Implement our bylaw he will only comment on the Wetland protection act so we still have room to opine on the bylaw but that was my only comment just upfront I think um Billy mentioned that the they're not um appell to the bylaw because they're state agency that's right yep you're right so are we going through this whole document tonight the goal was to vote on it tonight there's a couple things that need tweaking but it could could just be a matter of you know getting your input and then voting on that like as it like if I Chang that section you know we' Vote or you guys would vote in favor it's a long document it has yeah it's long uh so it it seems and Kristen correct me if I'm wrong but this seems like a fairly significant contention about this document I don't know if there's contention I think D and do have been working together for a while to I want to say it was dp's suggestion that mass de that mass do do this the intent of doing a bundled notice of intent is to streamline business between mass doot and the commission so they don't have to come before us for every little thing that they want to do that their special conditions will outline exactly what they need for routine operation and maintenance so you know they're not coming before us five times a year 10 times a year whatever um that they have a very clear outline of what they need to do to satisfy um I guess just the state regulations for their routine onm so that that's kind of the intention and you know we've I've done these types of things on college campuses for you know towns can do bundled nois but it's usually routine on andm and it's just in their jurisdiction so whatever they want to do that's not in their jurisdiction is not our business it's just routine onm within our jurisdiction so if you scroll down to page um next page this is where really the the conditions start um and there's overall conditions and then there's conditions kind of by category um as they separated out uh the different activities into those four categories and so where would we find I'm just I guess my my question is does something to the magnitude of expanding the road the road which type of category would that fall in yeah because if that falls into something that would ask one of those higher numbered categories yeah um um I feel like personally anything that requires engineering plans requires a separate noi that's my opinion so if like you need a new covert that shouldn't fall under a blanket on and M noi that should fall under that should be a new noi so anything that requires engineering like I don't know a new roundabout or what was how was that worded in there in in that top sentence like uh Road widening or insufficient roundabouts or traffic circles or whatever it says I just feel like anything that requires new engineering plan should be a new a new permit personally that's just my opinion and my first crack at drafting these I I thought I kind of excluded that request from D but I don't know what happened in the D do revisions if do if D is cool with it I don't know what what more we can really do um that was just my first my first thought so category one is are activities not requiring notification to the commission so that's basically exempt stuff category two activities requiring advanced notice to the commission so that would be they would requ they would be sending us the agent or whoever uh an email um before the work happens category three activities requiring Advanced notification to the concom and an on-site Mass do District 2 environmental representative during the work so that would be some of that work that we were talking about involving like Culvert cleanouts I think that would fall under category 3 where they would have a mass do specialist to make sure that they didn't create soil migration and turbid water runoff or something and then category 4 and I was really confused about this and I kind of just like didn't touch this this was emergency storm repairs and I talked to Mark about this and I thought wouldn't that just fall under emergency Sears and not under this blanket noi but some it's that was kind of my question yeah I don't know why that's still in there um I I I recommended to mark that we take that out and just emergency CS should be emergency CS they shouldn't fall under an noi but right I don't know what talk about I took another stab at that section because it is it's confusing and I I Revisited the the noi that they submitted and in the emergency section they had here let me I'm just going to scroll to it real fast on my end which page is it um they had emergency storm repairs and they kind of divided it into roadway embankment wash out and drainage system embankment wash out and so in the conditions if you want to scroll in the conditions kind of all the way just go all the way to the end yeah there we go and then scroll up a tad so this first one um for category 4 I said any emergency storm repair that does not fall under roadway embankment wash out and and forgot a quotation drainage system embankment wash out will require an emergency certification does not qualify under this bnii gotcha and then this highlighted thing Kristen was what you had written and I just didn't know because I think you like copied and pasted verbage from the noi yeah and I didn't I wasn't happy with it yeah yeah didn't want to delete it but I also felt like it needed work yeah wordy um and then the other bullet points in this section have to do with like me having the authority to sign off on storm repairs but also having the right to refer to the commission for additional input um you know the this emergency work may only last for 30 days was Billy's suggestion because that's like from the emergency certification verbiage yeah um and then this was the next three basically were Mark Stinson's input about like making him kind of a contact person because I'm part-time and you know I might not be in the office I might be out of town all that stuff um so one is emergency repairs or actually two of them are emergency repairs and then the third one is about catastrophic emergencies um which I don't even know really what would Define catastrophic I think a matter of like it has to be addressed Now versus like in the next few days would be catastrophic but um yeah so that was directly from Mark um as like him basically being like yes you can give out my cell number so that people can call me if if that's the case uh so that's kind of how I chose to approach the emergency storm repair conundrum because they did have two sections in the noi and just making it more narrowed to those two sections and not just like any any emergency that might happen uh otherwise I didn't really know how how to do it you know um yeah just so it wasn't so Broad and kind of making it so that they did have to put in emergency certifications for any other issues besides those two I just put some um a definition from FEMA regarding catastrophic incidence I feel like I spent a lot of time on the on these draft orders and I don't want to suck up any more oxygen on them um I defer to the rest of the commission to think about it ask questions share thoughts again so some of this language like work with BBWs this is taken right out of their noi so like this threshold of less than five cubic yards of temporary that's right out of their noi I mean all Commissioners really looked at those thresholds and thought about what that's if that's that's okay [Music] and unfortunately I wasn't able to review the um the document by the deadline kept meaning to and I would like to take a look at the changes that you've made Jessica so I in all honesty don't know that I can vote on it tonight and I regret asking for more time but I would appreciate that so I would be able to think about things as Kristen was saying about and you both have done a great deal of work and we've had a lot of input from D but I also want to take it very seriously because if this is going to be used as a a a template for the rest of the state um I think it does seem like it's in really good shape and a lot of the the materials been from pulled from good sources but um I would appreciate having a little more time to review it okay I just want to point out um since if that's the direction we're headed just kind of um draw your attention to the screen where it says Bridge maintenance I don't know a lot about that and you can see Billy still has the comment up there on the right hand side um I didn't know how to edit that I could take that out I mean I think that I probably put that in there just as like a I was just trying to think of I don't even know what Mass doot properties are in the city of Greenfield I was just trying to think of like different stuff but if it's not applicable like let's just NX it I think that's fine sure okay oh and then um Kristen this buffer zone work you had mention you put a comment about [Music] um you you put a comment about that let me see if I can bring it up yeah let me look my old versions too it was your most recent comment to me um see on the 10th um yeah probably what page are you on uh category twoone stuff oh I wrote oh I was just suggesting that we want to consider so you had written that um minor projects would be following would be you know subject to review by the agent and I was suggesting as a global comment throughout the whole document do we want to say the agent and or the commission so if the agent's like you know what I'm not sure maybe I want to present this to the commission just to kind of cover our cover our behinds a little bit so that it's not just like administrative blanket administrative approval the agent has the opportunity to say this is a commission question not just agent administrative approval I think that's what I was yeah so I did put so I I added that to this the section right above um the buffer Z work is Category 3 I did add verbage in there to try to like make it more of a blanket um gotcha okay thank y okay um so I think does anybody stringently object to um taking a little bit more time with this to review further depth greater depth I I I i' appreciate it too I agree with Emily I I had gone through it but I hadn't then I hadn't gone through the newest updated version so that's a lot guys it's a lot it's got to be 15 pages long it's dense so do we feel like the next which what did we say the 28th of January or do you want an additional extension beyond that uh reasonably um you know just realistically what is the amount of time that I that that we think that we need to appropriately review research and approve this document given the import of it um if we can take another month that'd be great I I'm curious about the external um pressure for us to clear it is this needed in order to get things rolling for the state or is it more a matter of just having the document in hand to be shared Billy had I asked her that in the fall she said that um it wasn't pressing but if we could have a goal of after the new year you know like the the meeting after the new year which is tonight um so I don't know what her answer would be to that question now great well I guess our answer is just we're doing the best we can um yeah I did have one other question about so a lot of times for because this is a five-year order of conditions not your typical three-year order of conditions and it's for routine on andm we typically would want to see an annual report and Mark Stinson suggested we do we request a by anual report just until we see how things are going and then we can always reduce that later um did we put that in there Jessica yes that's in there I believe first section of conditions before was was Billy okay with that because she seemed not happy about that before oh I'd have to look at my notes because I didn't change it and I feel like I changed everything that there were notes about okay but I'll make a note to to see if I have anything from her I can also call her again I also had another comment just about you know if there is any herbicide treatment for invasive species that the commission would be notified prior to and be given an herbicide use report after as part of the annual or biannual reporting as well I don't know if that made it into the final version that I did not add that I think that any e EPA required documentation we should request in the final or the biannual or whatever reporting we're requiring and a prior notification of any chemicals only in jurisdiction if they're if they're not at jurisdiction whatever but if they're in like you know Riverfront or buffer zone and they're using chemical treatment we could we can ask for just an email notification and then a herbicide use report just to make sure it's being implemented correctly and just file it yep there it is is the spraying on there oh um you already closed out my comment doc but I think that was my one of my more recent comments yeah that was your more recent one and that one didn't get added um I was working on that one today um here yeah but it didn't talk about the reporting so I can add that to the reporting section as well and that again that's typical with you know what we see other applicants do with these b&i fiveyear order of conditions for blanket onm routine onm stuff too all right so it sounds I'm gonna go ahead and stop sharing this uh it sounds like we are in a decision point of how far out can we reasonably push this um and so the 28th would be our next coming meeting and then after that it would be the 11th of February I don't think it's unreasonable to push it out to the 11th of February if we are absolutely on it and finish it up and vote on it on that date um um if that is the amount of time that the commission feels that it needs to appropriately review this document I feel that would be sufficient for me um and also that allows us by having some kind of further um deadline to have the final changes that Kristen and Jessica were looking at to be um Incorporated and then if if a fresh for the most recent version could be sent around that'd be helpful for me so I don't get confused about which is which and might be for others excellent so uh February 11 would be the meeting that we push this off to can we get a all motion to um continue the hearing for uh notice of intent for maintenance of roadways and drainage systems on i91 routs 25 and 10 that's D file 168 0363 to February 11th with a sincere intention of closing the hearing on that date I'll second great so let's vote on it then uh Erica hi Kristen I Emily I I am also an i okay let me that uh is the last public hearing that we have um I do believe we need a motion to close out the public hearing portion of this meeting oh yeah I'll make a motion to close out the public hearing portion of this meeting second we have to do that I probably didn't do that last time I was taking over for you right uh so we've got a second kid let's get a vote um Emily hi Kristen I Erica hi I am also an i great now let's move on to new business um right is that where we are at here yep okay um request for certificate of compliance 1417 bernardson Road D number 16803 29 expires 1021 2024 solar array installation okay so um Chris Pitt is here tonight he has requested um the certificate of compliance and in the Google Drive we have asilt plans as well as the site visit photos um what expired in [Music] October the extension I believe was there a covid toing extension or is that with the it was an actual extension oh gotcha okay sorry CC this uh yeah that's the site visit and then those are the asilt plans which ones do you want um well we could do the asilt maybe Chris would like to talk about those okay let me put this up here was yeah I'm I'm happy to I don't know if you all can hear me but I'm happy to talk about whatever is helpful for you all sure Ken yeah maybe I'll just give a little overview uh some of you have been on long enough to remember the original permitting um when we originally applied for the permit we were going to have panels solar arrays on the Greenfield side of the line and on the berneron side of the Town Line the the the site um goes into both municipalities um we I believe it was in 2022 we realized that we um that it wasn't feasible to put the solar panels on the Green Field side of the line there just wasn't enough space there was there's far less usable space than we thought there was going to be uh and so we came before the commission at that time to amend the um the permit which was done uh basically during that meeting um and then uh so so we did that and the these as built plans that are being presented are reflective of the plans that were submitted I'm pretty sure the year was 2022 I think it was in the fall of 2022 um the uh since then construction started in the spring of 2023 and was uh you could get into terminology but but we consider the project to have come to to have been completed in um September of uh last year so we um we did finish all work before before the permit expire we didn't uh we should have filed probably our certificate of compliance at that time uh but but I think effectively um uh the work was completed within the permanent time frames and so I I can run through the uh as Bill drawings the as Bill drawing so so what uh what the as Bel drawings are going to show you is all the solar arrays are on the burnston side of the Town field Town Line what uh Greenfield has is there was an existing driveway that linked from the main road to up um it goes maybe a quarter mile up to the Greenfield excuse me to the um to the Greenfield buron Town Line uh so we we widen that driveway which is what we had discussed in 2022 and then the utility install um their electrical connection for the facility there on the Green Field side of the line right along the road uh and then um we installed an underground cable to meet up with their facilities essentially and we may sorry I don't know who's driving the screen but if you go down uh this is the pre if you go down to the post another uh the post construction drawings are in another couple pages I think a few more it looks like just tell me when oh there you go now now you can see yeah yeah so so if you look by the road there you can see the construction poles that are put in there they're the ones with all the labels uh those are the utility poles that were put in along the road and then the the dark grade driveway area um is what was installed the cursor moving there that we had a we also put in a temporary lay down area that will get remediated uh we're trying to figure out what to do with the property currently um but you'll notice it's the the lay down area was cited outside of the Wetland buffer areas it was it was the backyard of the houses that are there uh and it was Upland area um Chris all that area was was cleared right the Greenfield side the the the backyard we had to do a little bit more clearing uh but not much we I think we cut down maybe like two or three trees basically we took what was it was their grassy backyard uh in order to make the I don't know how to describe it but in order to make the um connection so so the driveway used to just go to the houses we extended the driveway through the houses through the backyard to connect up to the road that what which is make makes that oval so we had to cut down a couple of trees to do that I think yeah right there where whoever doing the cursor but again that that's temporary that section of the road through the backyard our intent is to move it but it is also outside of the Upland area sorry it's in an Upland area outside of the buffer areas and and that's about it we do um just uh I don't know Jessica if you're going to talk through this there is uh the silt fence the a lot of the um erosion control measures and uh sedimentation measures um so so for better or worse uh Bernardston had had us hire an environmental Monitor and the environmental monitor doesn't actually distinguish between the town lines so they write up their report for stuff for us to do for the entire project uh so we we've been following that even though it doesn't Strictly Come From Greenfield it's just sort of been the way the project Works uh so so their their erosion control measures are still in place we agreed with bernardon that we would leave those go up until the vegetation uh of next spring so essentially take them down probably in like June or something after after any grass is headed any uh that didn't get a chance to grow this year it's had a chance to establish next year hey Chris I'm just curious who is your environmental monitor uh so Pacifico itself our monitor we use TRC out of the L Office uh and then Bernardston hired is there third party reviewer uh swika okay I kind of was thinking that I work forca so I'm going to recuse myself okay I didn't know that I did not know that I swear to God until just now that's why I asked that's fine and and to be fair that te technically swika has no jurisdiction so I don't I don't know that you're actually in conflict because no I have no I like I said I had no idea at all but just for Comfort levels I'll just recuse myself okay yeah sorry thanks guys I I I think that's sort of the overview like I said [Music] um it's it's a pretty simple site the um the only area the only really new build we did that you guys had asked us uh to move the driveway the old driveway routing you can see in white um sort of in the upper well upper center right uh yeah uh no sorry not not that one uh I don't know if there's a way I can show my cursor but but over by the lay down area just to the north of the lay down area it's oh the way yeah you see there's there's we the driveway routing Now sort of Curves out around yeah that's the the that that's the old that white is the old driveway you had asked us in the original permitting to move the driveway so that uh went further away from the Wetland which is what we did so basically the the only real construction we did in Greenfield was the lay down area and then moving that section of driveway to to be further away from the wand so our our our our construction overall was quite minimal in Greenfield we have some good pictures of that it might be a good segue to go look at the pictures like is it okay so this to share this is the bottom of the road where the poles were installed along the left side and you can see that the silt fence is still there so that will remain until late spring and I don't think these are necessarily in order for some reason but this is far up the road this is the um section of the road that they built and the grassy part on the right of the rip wrap is um the old section of the road so this is where the road is veering um the new road is veering away from the Wetland buffer so that's looking back further up the road so we're looking back towards um the beginning of the road they put boulders to prevent people from using the old road and this is where um I don't know why they're going in this order but this this is almost at the end of the road towards the uh solar installation uh this is just um I'm pretty much at a covert um and showing the um rip wrap and the silt fencing that they installed to help um keep it out of the stream keep sedimentation out of the Stream and again uh this is the covert um it comes on the other side of the silt fence again a side view of the CT more um rip wrap to stabilize the road okay this is yeah the the old road from the other direction ction and it's looking up towards the landing area where they were storing uh supplies this for okay so this is uh one of the first coverts going up the road from the main road and showing um the rip wrap and some um Waddles to help um I think I I think to help us kind of it takes um the vegetation starts to take old beginning yeah it's back at the beginning okay so I went back today to get better pictures of the culbert but um there was snow on the [Laughter] ground so yeah this was one of uh there's three culverts um this is the middle one going uphill away from the resource area the LA the other photo was going downhill towards the resource area I was just looking towards the resource area oh yeah so there's a covert um on the other side the silt fence and then there's another one just sort of in the woods yeah yeah that that's believe it or not we had a lengthy conversation about that when we did the original perming that that's an old road you can see it on the driveway we never touched it and so there was a lengthy conversation and they after after much back and forth people said well if you're never going to use that road just leave it and don't disturb it and that's what we did I didn't realize that was a road yeah I mean it it was like an Old Logging Road you know it was old like very rough road that have been put in well well before we ever purchased the property so this is also a CT CT I know it's hard to see with the snow oh there you go okay and then this is the kind of that landing area um that falls outside the buffer zone and I just sort of scanned left towards the house as I took those photos and yeah that was the first Culvert going up the road from the main road and with those straw Waddles that's it so let's see we're looking for a certificate of compliance and something I wanted to bring up that um I had heard in the meeting when the extension was requested was there was an enforcement or order from uh many agents ago from 2019 about those CTS um but it sounds like with the adjustments to the road that they um they worked Chris correct me if I'm wrong did you work on those coverts more to adjust the road and make make it stable uh I I don't know for sure what what I believe we did is in the course of widening the road so the road say was like 10 to 12 feet wide and we had to wide it out widen it out to 15 ft I believe for the fire department requirements I I believe some of the culber they basically sort of uh did like a culbert extension um as needed when they were widening the road road but but I that's going off of recollection I I be beyond that I our intent was to do as little with the culber as possible that is to to leave you know the existing flow conditions the way they were so I'm not sure if that answers your question but I um yeah that that is unfortunately as much as I recall from from uh the conversations back them okay how big were the two culverts it's a little hard to tell from pictures was it just two that you created there's three three three yeah and they they were all existing um well I guess is that right at least two of them were existing I think the third I think I'm pretty sure all three were existing I I think I think off the top of my head they're like 15 or 18 inch they're pretty standard Siz coverts okay thanks but but not huge okay um are there any observations that have been made during flood events that were uh that happened you know during or after the construction other roads uh I I couldn't speak to those I I um so so our agreement with um the with s swca for for the burners side was I think rainfall events uh I can't remember the standard it was quarter inch or half inch they'd have to come out and inspect and so that area where you saw the rip wrap and the straw waddle I I suspect was a remediation because they thought we were getting too much sedimentation through that Calvert um so basically it it was pretty L inspected and we would have to do you know within a reasonable time frame the remediation they recommended um you said that the lay down area is just going to be partially abandon I mean letting it go back to Natural that we were saying yeah that that is our plan um so that we put gravel down for that road uh is that the gravel should be uh you know scraped back up they'll scrape the top few inches up back to to the more natural soil and then reced it um we are we are potentially looking at redeveloping and so we may I don't when we were out of sight I was actually surprised that they hadn't done that already um so I'd have to check to see um but yes that that has been our plan is to essentially put it back to the grass backyard that you see in the rest of the area but you're keeping the road right I mean the road is is your access correct not yeah the uh the more Northerly section of that road uh is the primary access you won't you won't drive through the area you won't drive through the houses anymore for long-term access you'll drive north of both houses does the commission have any further questions or concerns around this um bearing in mind that it's just the road on the Greenfield side no barring any I think that we can move forward with issuing your certificate of compliance I'll make a motion to uh issue certificate of compliance for the uh solar array well the road on our side um and bl I don't have I don't have the D number 168 d329 um so yes so we've got the motion thank you Erica can I'll second um so we're going to go ahead and vote Erica Emily I Kristen has recused herself I am also an i we're happy to issue this H certificate of compliance great uh thank you very much yeah if there's there's anything further um certainly let us know and and we may like I said we're still trying to figure out a bit this this property was also reason Zone to um commercial since since the intervening years as this has gone on so there there's a very good chance we may come back before you and look to um try to make use of this property in another way so uh if if that happens I look forward to uh having a discussion with you again thank you for joining us and thank you for your patience with our technical issues tonight no no problem thank you very much have a nice time me too bye um yeah I think that's uh I think I think that makes the most sense at this point in the evening oh so our next uh order of business is the uh parcel r811 a-0 a um on lamp Black Road a road was cut and excavated down the wooded Hillside to the flood plane and Riverfront below in order to access the Fall River uh this was not a permitted project and stepen Pritchard uh was heading the project and is currently here with us this evening and I'm let's see how do I want to do this perhaps do we have any um any we've got some pictures I know that we took put pictures in do you want to go ahead and I can bring those up and you want to you want I'm G to do a little history though before yeah why don't you you do that why I give a little history before you shock everybody photos um just the history of the family my wife's family is pretty um um amazing basically the griswell family's been on the road since the late 1700s and um one of the family members her Uncle Bill he was a World War II bomber pilot and he he was on the Conservation Commission he actually helped along with the Greenfield tool and die folks to donate Land from the griswell family I think I I can't remember the acreage 150 to 200 Acres was donated for the Wildlife um reserve and the um the conservation land so with that said I came into the family in 1988 and Missy's my wife's Grandma passed away she was a griswell that was Betty gisell she welded the land to my wife's dad and um she passed away you know great when that happened and you know I just thought hey I came into the family then hopefully it wasn't we comeing in the family but anyway um so for the past 37 years the family basically used the house um my in-laws lived in Chicago and they use the family like or the house for a weekend get away for any family member that to use it and her uncle took care of it when they went around and then um my sister-in-law and brother-in-law and my father-in-law plan on moving up there this year into the house across the road from where the path is and Missy and I are going to move into the adjacent house so with that said over the past 37 years since I came into the family numerous times there was conversations about boy I wish we had access to the river because with a Hayfield is it's almost 250 ft down to the water and the um where the path was constructed um was a natural Ravine because the other parts of the land we had further south on llac it's even more steep where it wouldn't makes sense so with that said I I nonchalantly mentioned to an escavator who did the work on our home um grading process hey would you be interested in checking us out and he goes Steve I can get you a road down to the river for a path I asked him to make a path now it looks excessive because excavators don't have 24in bulldozers it would have been Nic just to have a walking path but that was our intent to walk down and I said to my wife us living there full-time I've heard there's brook trout and other fish I love the fish I like to get back in it we're planning on moving there full time I thought it'd be nice to have something else to do so that's what started the whole process we did not know you had to pull Hermits with family land I checked out I had a guy survey the land when we C our lot so we knew exactly where the lot line was and I said holy cow my mother-in-law told me because they bought the land in 88 from other folks because they wanted to keep a large quantity of land in the griswell family for The Descendants in the future and she said it goes right to the river I'm like well so that's path four that's where we are that's how all started so this guy I just let him do his thing and each day I would go over and I'm like wow well it's a very Steep Ravine and basically what an excavator does is he takes dirt off the high side and moves it onto the flat so you have a level path down so you don't have to worry about the dangers of fall over whatever right but it is the pictures will show so I'm going to go ahead and put these pictures up um and I have no no control over the order but yeah the order is weird so this is like halfway down uh the trail it I don't that was probably the escavator taking soil up land um yeah you could keep going this is just to show kind of the uh scar on the hillside um I'm standing on the road part yeah this order is really wonky so this is the bottom of the road it's I'm looking so like right when you get to the bottom of the road I look right so I'm looking um kind of Downstream the river is actually in the distance you can see in the distance what's right in front of me is I don't know what it is it looks like it might just be like a seep like where some water might seep out is not the river but it it is different than like the leaf litter area um I'm the up the road a little bit looking Downstream so you can see that seepy [Music] area and now I'm at the bottom of the road looking kind of what would be Upstream um just to the left you can't really see I think there's one more picture but you can see there's some of that seepy no um so it's on like both sides of the road Jessica on that photo if you go back that's not Phil is it that's where he that's where the road stopped yeah like he came out of the woods and like pushed soil down the slope yeah yeah he just ended right through at the River Flat yep yeah so like I where I'm standing there's like a tree kind of right in the left foreground I'm just like up the slope a bit so there is some that's coming out onto the woods onto the flat area but he he didn't like actively dig um just push once the flat but that's Phil yeah so now this is the seep thing I was talking about but Upstream versus Downstream and so now we're kind of backing up up the hill and this is looking up this is walking down yeah that's Eric that that um kind of cut into the hillside that we looked at the first photo is to the right is that erosion resultant of that road being cut I think that that was actively like noded at by the ex excavator that's where he took it to get the flat because this this would have discontinued down so he notched out yeah the hillside to BU and he pushed the excess soil down the slope into the resource area yes and so yeah this was when we first kind of started descending we weren't really sure how far down we were going to go so I was snapping photos all right so yeah this is I'm almost at the top of the road now I am at the top of the road I wish you could have I mean if you had seen it before he started there was a lot of Baron Leaf coverage there wasn't a lot of trees in some areas what started this um approach was there was like a Micro Burst I don't know late August and octed over several trees in some fell into the Hayfield some fell downhill and that's what that's when I invited him to check and he goes yeah I can make a path we'll just follow the the turn of the natural Ravine but right from the get-go my plan was to replant and I'll talk about that further as we go but you know to you're I'm sure everybody is concerned I am too about erosion you don't want the hill to keep falling so to get some trees established on the sides and there is materials that you can use he offered to he did it behind our barn that we buil he blew mulch up under the hill to stop erosion they also sell um they're like rugs they you roll out made up juk and you can cut the neck into it to put a root ball in to plant trees but the Juke mats will prevent dirt from eroding down right but you know we had no clue that about Wetlands act no clue uh yes this is just like at the very top that's the bulldozer that he used to move the dirt after he scratched the sides got to build a flat and that's just from the road [Music] yeah I mean there's a lot of land that the family owns from L black road to the riverfront MH that no one's ever used one guy skied an opening one year almost killed himself got walked back up but I mean with us moving there and living fulltime it's a shame to have I think there's 12 acres of land they have on that side of the road to have seven acres not accessible so that's the bulk of the photos but I did want to I did a GIS screenshot too I just want to look at that real fast yeah let me uh here find that and then and then here go here because I think you're in the site visit folder and then right there so okay so this is just um that star the red star is where I believe we entered the woods and then it switched back down through the woods and then um see so yeah there's got a there's a few layers going on like the river and the stream are two different layer you know the river is more of a wetland layer so it shows as a polygon and the stream is align with the buffer zone but then there's these other little it's a um it's the USGS hydrology stream layer and it's it's showing these other blue kind of streamy tributary things that go to the Fall River and I think that that's probably what that fill crossed over when I was at the bottom of the road now what he said he did down there because he realized there were Natural Springs coming out of the bottom of the hillside he stacked like triple to six tree trunks to create like a Natural Bridge the water would not be obstructed by the dirt flow right and that was I did not want him to put in a concrete Culver pipe I wanted to keep keep it natural but I I did say you got some wash I'm not sure if that's coming back River I assume it's leaking out of the side of the Hill through Springs and that's what this kind of shows too so he was cognizant of that and I said just stop when you get to the River Flat at that point I'm like I knew from other friends of mine that you do not want to do anything with the trees on a river flat one was broken from the storm whatever and another one was dead so you'll see the two there's two stumps at the bottom that's the only trees he touched so let's let's go to the picture from the bottom here real quick that is the one I wanted to yeah stack the trees right that's like the top um canopy part of the Trunks and the main trunks are underneath this because I told him you got to let that water seat back to the ever can we just ask I mean um one we know this is in state Wetlands protection act jurisdiction this is definitely Riverfront it's definitely in local jurisdiction is it in bordering land subject to flood do we know that I don't believe it was when I did the ark map screenshot I had all the the layers active I don't think we have blsf for spatial data in our region you have to pull a firm oh yeah oh just an elevation the H hundredy year flood yeah that's something I mean maybe the applicant can look into that or maybe D do we know if the state wants to pursue any enforcement action we have not talked to the state this was the first step gotcha I mean there's cut and fill in resource area if we if we issued an enforcement order for a recent land owner who just cut down some trees this is certainly more than that right yeah so I guess what are the mitigation um I don't think it's our job to get ask for we can ask the applicant to provide us with opt I don't think we can tell him what he has to do do we I mean we did with the trees did we oh shoot I forgot yeah we we required certain mixes of this is another um unpermitted oh right that we have had dealt with in the past um and so we did we did require in that particular instance um that certain mixes of trees that had been cut down get replaced and that certain um maintenance strategies are in place the survivorship um I think the first step would be that we would have to issue an enforcement order notify the state and then in that enforcement order it would say you have to whatever within a certain number of days or weeks or whatever and whether that's present a mitigation plan or come to the committ commission with a present with a idea we can bounce ideas around together or something like that but I feel like the state needs to know this because this is in state jurisdiction this might even be in blsf which is what bordering land subject to flooding bordering land subject to flooding looking at airat let me just can I do a screen share real quick Jessica yeah sure sorry go ahead I guess I have to send a request first okay oh that's okay this is all new technology we're learning we're learning together okay let me try Okay um okay so first of all this is my let me turn on my Contours m uh so I think this is this is the property with the Contour elevations and these are those two light blue lines which are intermittent streams there's one here there's one here and there's one here and this is the perennial Stream So 200 feet of these intermittent streams are locally jurisdictional and one 200 feet of this perennial stream is jurisdictional under this state um and then this obviously is a very steep slope and then the fmet so we're south of baskam and of course I'm like cut right off but it's somewhere in here and I don't know where exactly we are this is an oldfashioned fet from uh 1980 but we probably have a baseline elevation that we can pull from here and we we I mean if we do talk to the state they're going to want to see they're going to want to know that um because if if it's not just Riverfront but it's also bordering land subject to flood and there's cut and fill that is going to matter um just because of the performance standards for the 100-year flood plane for every one foot in elevation Contour if there's cut and fill it needs to be mitigated for flood storage compensation and there was quite a lot of cut and fill there so that's the only reason I'm wondering if we are in the 100 foot flood zone um and this obviously this paper map is really coarse we have no idea where your property is here but um it's something you might want to look into so can we provide um some guidance in terms of what the next steps would be for you in order for you to be able to because it so Kristen are we required to report this up to the state if we issue an enforcement order we can issue an enforcement order under the local ordinance and or the state Wellness protection act and I guess that's up to the commission I mean in my opinion this is in both jurisdictions it's in state and local MH and if we you know stuck it to one guy for Riverfront for cutting trees in riverfront we have to kind of follow a precedent um this is my opinion though yeah yeah and I don't I don't disagree with the following of the protocol and I certainly agree with the jurisdictional um decisions or or or comments that you've made but I guess the question that I'm wondering is how can we best prepare Stephen to um move forward with this such that we're not sticking it to anybody I guess I mean I don't think the state will go after them they only go after big players who do huge impacts I think and that that involve like um you know the Attorney General right I think this will be a local issue personally um that we can work out locally but once an enforcement order is issued if follows the deed until it's been closed so it is in the landowner's best interest to make it good and I don't know what that might be I mean I think that that's really would it be pulling the trees and the fill out of there well I think as far as like what the mitigation is that we would work together basically to to figure out the best way to do with that right so you're not um left just trying to figure out what the heck to do with a pile of dirt right yeah yeah you know we want to we want to make that makes access to the river flag yeah I mean then this yeah exactly yeah well the other thing you were hinting a little bit ago I think it was Jessica or it might have been you as far as um I already made contact with my Nursery buddy of mine for large quantities of trees as far as the mix they can get all kinds of trees and I'd have them delivered right and so now that is a matter of um I think the thing that we would require is relates to that piece is that it's got to be native to Franklin County yeah um and there will be some survivorship requirements as well and what does that mean um basically we would require that you show us over a period of years that we would discuss and and work out that 75 85 95% of planting survives and if anything um less than that survives and then you would have to replace that okay that and you would come up with the number of traes we yes we would we would work together to figure out what what makes the most sense in terms of um what's going to prevent erosion in in those spaces I feel like the biggest concern right now though the immediate concern is immediately stabilizing this unstable slope that goes straight to a resource area so like are there any erosion controls in place do we have straw Waddles I mean is there any sort of nothing there right now okay and there was a torrential rainstorm one week into the project and the escavator because he's made roads his whole career I mean he's older than I am not get up there but anyway there was no wash out across the path or the road as you call it which was a good sign it's going into the there's a valley left the original Valley went into there and just stay the new Ro um probably Wetland yeah so I guess I guess our biggest concern would be to prevent any further erosion as a result of this excavation um that would be like before we even have a chance to um take any action of any sort um to prevent any further erosion because it is ultimately I mean it's G to like water it will go down to its lowest possible point and we want to avoid putting any more into the water area um and so you had mentioned um burlap uh landscape cover of some sort or it looks like a window shade it's very fine strips of juk tied together it's like a big roll right and you unroll it and then there's biodegradable pins that you attach the sidewalk nail Rod away you can slice it to plant trees or whatever right so you know I think at the absolute very least some as Kristen mentioned some straw Waddles along the base of the um excavation so that anything that does start to trickle down stops right there I see um and then I don't know if this time of year it makes a whole lot of sense to throw that juk downen right and so getting anything into that might not work but the I think the Waddles are the bare minimum of what needs to be done Bales and St um Bales I think Waddles would be fine and I think that if you you know when you create a road you do like water bars or a trail you do water bars kind of like at a cross angle you could do waddles at Cross angles along the road slope that might work to ser and honestly if you can like seed and mulch it with even a winter Rye it's it's just it's loose soil it's just even with erosion controls it's just gonna re and Gully and wash away right I guess I guess my question at this point is that the ground's frozen yes so I wouldn't think anything would as soon as we have I mean we get thaws in January February now so I don't know what grows you would know better than me Liz but I mean it's just it's so it's just the worst time of year and I just think you can put as much erosion controls and Bales and Waddles and everything out there it's just it's so precarious right and it's such a steep slope and there's fil it's not even just like you know like a clearcut road like it's top soil it's loose it's just I don't know it's precarious and put it this way any any measurable amount of material in a jurisdictional resource area will be something that the state will absolutely pay attention to so if you have you know a quantifiable amount of soil in a Wetland or even Riverfront area the state will pay attention to that so you want it is in your best interest to make sure that there is no soyil migration so you wor you the concern is you don't want erosion to deposit anymore soil into the water right right and so the the Waddles are a first step but I you know I I definitely hear Kristen's point in terms of that steep slope and any rains if we get a thaw what happens when you have you know there was Leaf coverage it was pretty solid it was probably this th so when it rains aren't soil going oh that would the leaves would yeah it's like a roof material right so the water just washes into the Ravine and then fresh clear water goes into the river so the issue is where the um uh let me see this this type of thing here let me just so the commission can see what I'm looking at here so this I think this type of um of uh open right it's a there was a root ball that was there right so but but there's several spaces where um the top like as Kristen was saying the top soil is now gone the living Roots have now been torn up and that leaf litter that you were mentioning is no longer in these spaces and that's sort of the concern around um where chrisen correct me if I'm wrong Kristen but this is where Kristen was suggesting that um getting yeah and also on that constructed road which that looks like some cut but then there was some fill to create an elevated road so that it was a more even decline down the down the down the slope but it's loose yeah yeah go back to one yeah that one it's loose soil you can even see The Reeling and gullying in that if go back one photo or two photos right there you can see go forward right there in the middle you can even see some reing and there wasn't even a rain event before that so obviously if we get some you know freeze Tha activities which is very typical of this time of year this is loose soil there's no vegetation there are no roots kind of holding that soil in place there aren't even side slopes it's just soil obv and at the bottom of the slope it's obviously a resource area so any of that side slope that erods over to the left or to the right or down to the and this even here the top of that photo it's all going into a resource area so all of that is fill in a resource area and you want to stop that as much as possible I know it's impossible it's already done but like try to control my my advice would be try to control any future soil migration into jurisdictional resource areas to the maximum extent practicable right would mulch be a choice mulch isn't GNA hold on to the soil which is the watch off too right right yes exactly [Music] um what about the Jude Maps yeah that was sort of what I was what do you think about that Kristen the um the the juk map I would put I would pound it with whatever bmps you can think of honestly I would be worried about this if I were you I would put down anything that I had my hands on you know in in in terms of practical usage as well like you're eventually going to be looking at not just the resource concerns but like the road itself is going to be cease to be functional if things start to wash out um if Ravine or r can I can I can I just chime in on something sure can um I'm I'm Melissa Pritchard Steve's wife and and the land owner and I'm just wondering I I understand all the concerns but if we you know get all the M you know whatever material we can get to mitigate any soil movement and if we monitor anytime there's a thaw or rain or whatever to see what's occurring if any because I do think a lot of the water goes down the natural natural Ravine the way it always has and I'm not saying that the dirt's not going to move because you're right it's loose but if we you know do the materials to try to stabilize it but then we also monitor it whenever there's any kind of rain event or thaw event to make sure that nothing's happening would that even be of value to you absolutely because I'm I'm hoping it's not as bad as it looks I mean I I know the the photos are shocking um but I think I think we can do it I mean I think we can I mean and as far as the cut and fill and everything at the bottom on the what you call the resource area I guess I mean as Steve mentioned they there was one dead tree and then there was one Bent Tree that those were the only two trees taken down on the flat area it's not like we clear cut it and filled or did anything down there it you know when the path got to the bottom we stopped so I'm you know there there wasn't anything else there it other than the dirt that you see right now that that's kind of the way it looked um so I don't know if I think if if we can make sure that there's no more dirt or if there's no dirt coming down the hill then I I I don't feel like the resource area would be impact at all do you think I I feel like there's two issues Melissa the first issue is one immediately button this up yeah two is let's figure out how to mitigate after that but there I think buttoning this up doesn't qualify as mitigating right can we can we do the buttoning up before you issue any kind of I forgot what you called it but before you notify the state get to or or can we like can we try to fix it before you issue any kind of anything so that's kind of what I was hoping that this conversation would get us to was a place where you could take immediate action Y um and have that in place before um or as in the same time as we have to take whatever actions that we have to take yeah yeah I I agree 100% because you know we love the land we love the beauty of the land we don't we don't want anything changed I I actually he told me about this path and I was excited about it and but I was also surprised you know how invasive it looked but you know I see his vision I see his vision of like a hiking path and it will still have trees and it'll look all natural except you'll have this nice little Meandering path down to the flat it obviously it doesn't look like that now but I can see what where he's going with it and I think we can get there and I think we can Steve's very resourceful I'm sure he can call all his buddies and figure out what we can do right now like in the next two weeks to put some material down yeah I just want to say Stephen Melissa I was just at Griswald Conservation area yesterday I go there all the time I I am very grateful I'm sure I'm not the only one I we are all very grateful for your family's contribution tion to the conservation land in the city of Greenfield and I know that you're not trying to be whatever we we get it we get it yeah no we don't we don't want to leave anything that looks like a clearcut fracking you know like of course yeah hor a horrible situation we want it to look beautiful and um but we we were shocked to find ourselves in this position and I definitely want to fix it fast yeah so Kristen can you what are our um as a commission what are our next steps in terms of you've mentioned like reporting to the state I don't know so if we issue an enforcement order we have to issue it under either this the local ordinance and or the Wetland protection act and I think this is both um but it's we can word it in such a way that says you know we want the land owner to provide evidence that um you know they're gonna or we want the landowner I I don't know Jessica can look into this more but like you know cease and assist you know stop all work in resource areas and come to the commission by X date to present mitigation ideas or something like that yeah have to be like super threatening you know can I ask one other question as far as like the jurisdiction area I mean I think Steve you can correct me but from the river bank to the end of the road I think is 170 feet and to the top of the hill it's what Steve how many feet oh it's it's a 543 foot path from the start so how are because it leads down to the river are we like obligated like all the way to the top or or we just have to worry about the bottom so you're so the resource area so the the state resource areas are wetlands and we don't know where the wetlands are they could be right at the toe of that slope for all we know kind of looked like it was wet to me but I don't I don't know yeah and also 200 feet from the the the I guess the right descending stream bank or the Western stream Bank of the Fall River 200 feet laterally across the landscape from that is a resource area it's not a buffer zone it's a resource area that's under the state RS under local ordinance 200t from those those lighter blue lines resource area okay and so and also like there could be Wetland so um if you're within basically 200 feet of those light blue lines and also like if you know you're walking down at the toe of the slope and it feels kind of squishy it's probably yeah 100 feet of that well you know to be honest with you I I don't want it to be wet and Squishy either because I don't want because I want to be able to walk down there so I don't I want it to be stable um and I I get please don't try to put soil down in a wetland no no no no what I meant was prevent soil seual path Oh I thought you were like oh I want to be to make a CL through there no no no no no no no no and in fact you know when this whole thing is done it's not going to be nearly as wide as it is right now it was just that was how big his bulldozer was okay yeah but um one other question I had back we were you were talking about the flood plane how can we find out if there's a flood if we're in a flood zone oh the bordering land subject to flood so uh I think did I close that out um I don't know it probably doesn't matter it probably doesn't matter I mean just see what Jessica says if she's gonna if she probably already looked into it I was just bringing it up because that FEMA f met is so Course and there it's from 1980 there are no spatial data for our part of the state you only get um 100-year flood plane spatial mapping for the eastern part of the state nobody cares about us west of Wester yeah so I don't know if that's even relevant yeah so in term okay so if the the condition is if we order a or if we create a an order of um enforcement thank you day then there is a requirement for reporting do we feel like we need to create the order of enforcement tonight or can we create a little space in order for you to have time to lay down those um those immediate actions to prevent any further um erosion of what is what is already there right Kristen do we have to do that immediately does the commission have any thoughts around the immediacy of that type of an order um it seems to me that the applicants are more than um willing to work with us and get this sorted out couple weeks I would like to hear from the other Commissioners cuz I mean personally I would like to issue some kind of aase and assist with a request for a followup but I I feel like I've been taking up a lot of oxygen so I would love to hear from what the other Commissioners have to say I I don't remember what the specific steps are that are required with an enforcement order but we've obviously issued a verbal um cease and desist and you folks have come to the meeting so that's a first step and then um it feels like it feels good to have something on record um you know if there's a standard form that would be great and then it's just a performer we we're just letting the state know that there has been a Phil there has been alteration and it was done and you guys stopped when you were notified that it was uh not appropriate without appropriate permitting and consultation with the Conservation Commission and you know the the the appropriate steps to be taken so um you're you're doing the right thing we've had a good conversation tonight you've got a better idea of what you can do what what what will be best for the land and that's what you want to do um so we've already given you a verbal um cease and desist if we if we make that and writing I don't think it really changes anything there's no black remark that's being put on the record here it's really just a matter of communication and making sure that all the par can come in and and help make the make the situation better no more construction that's done stuff's gone that's going to plan everything for erosion the mats whatever we have to do we'll we'll Shore this up great um it so it makes sense to me to have to letter Maybe notifying you in writing and notifying the state that this situation is going on and that that we're all going to work together to um have you bring like giving some dead time frames is also really good too and making that clear that way there's no unclarity on your part about what needs to be done and what we're expecting so the letter Emily thank you for bringing that up now that you've said that I remember that one of the reasons that we went to the extent of the um enforcement order with our previous example that we were using earlier was that they were not coming to the meetings and they were not communicating with us right right since we have open and willing communication and a willingness to uh work together then I think that we maybe don't need to quite go to that length at this point we we definitely care I mean I was shocked when I saw you and Eric coming I'm like oh I'm like then you started speaking I was like oh my God so you know we we apologized to our po permit we had no idea all the people we talked to over the past 37 years no one even talked about it even Uncle Bill the guy that was on the Conservation Commission he never said hey if you want to go down to the river you gotta give permission we just thought hey it's our land you know so we're over that we apologize many times but from the beginning now I always plan on planting trees if you could have seen it before he started there was a lot of ugliness in that Valley as a matter of fact they were using it as a Dumping Ground in the old days old washing machines and stuff yeah and it's some of it's still in the valley in the blooding land so I mean we're going to get that cleaned up too so we care we are environmentalists we don't we didn't demonstrate it by what we did here but I plan on planting trees I mean I had this book in my Arsenal at home I a sustainable Forest is important because you want to make sure it lives for years to come and be healthy so when I saw the root ball hole yeah I mean I want to short of so we're I'm going to get this I just texted the guy he gave me a couple locations to get the rolls J so I'll get that I'll work with the escavator because he said he could help in the spring you know it is a tough time of the year it's hard as rack yeah but we're going to make sure it doesn't wash out and there are trees but the trees were like that before we started the ones up in the rim it's amazing how trees get established when you think what is the depth of the root BMB and as far as the species that we put in you know there was red oak there was white oak there's beach trees there's uh not many Birch on that Hillside I didn't see many Birch but we'll we'll follow the what the rules are of Engagement if you you decide with the square footage of land how many trees should be planted obviously where the root balls are it's a perfect place to put a tree right because it's already a hole and it should get going pretty quick you want them to get established yeah absolutely watering is the other thing that I already have plans on how to do that so we'll work with you but as far as the cease and toist there's no more equipment the only equipment we bring in is to deliver the trees or whatever plant water so it sounds like uh a letter detailing the things that we've discussed here today is our next step and then we continue to work together to make sure that we're all on the same page yeah um and when you want to come back and check it out hey Steve got the trees he's got the he got the 30 trees you whatever can I just can I just say the letter um will you because that I don't know if that lot is connected to the house across the street so the address is 588 lamp black road for the letter okay thank you cuz um my dad actually lives in Florida but he has Alzheimer's and he's moving up here so sending a letter to him is pointless gotcha just s it to 588 lamp black which it would scare the heck out of right right which we don't work with you C you know you guys we're the team yep absolutely I'm embarrassed him to find out it be I can only imagine as if our in-law relations go don't want to do that to you a good member of the family tiet to the house yeah that was Steve's plan though to get it all back to Natural before my dad gets here oh um I'm back at the next meeting and yeah so at the next meeting we'd want to see um evidence of these immediate tactics having been deployed yeah um so I I'll be invited is that the 28th love to come that's the view I mean it took us 37 years oh wow yeah it's a beautiful Riv gorgeous yeah and I mean brookies like how do you not go get that I know I heard there's eels in that River I could live without that eels her dad her dad had a friend up in bernon that had a dam started coming to Greenfield the dam was in place the guy did not maintain it and it breached and broke and the river sent a wall of water down and it was like um claims insurance claims because these people did not have flood insurance but it like washed out it destroyed a lot of stuff Downstream yeah but it was a huge Dam up by the the Grain Mill in Burson yeah it's crazy yeah yeah I think American yels are listed now Misa and just um a comment about the springs and the seeps that were pointed out all of those are really important um charging points for the cold water like that's part of the reason why the river is listed as a cold and way it's good habitat for those fish species is exactly that kind of um welling up of cold water from the the water table thanks for bringing that up Lily I don't even remember did we talk about the fact that the Fall River is a cold water Fisheries resource so particularly sensitive to Thermal loading and sediment inputs wow mentioned it but but that's you know exactly why you value it is why it's so sensitive yeah well in in those that the bottom of the hill and the end of the road will be things that I think that we will address in later meetings and try to Kristen you had mentioned um I forget the phrase what basically we'll figure out how to deal with that later yeah it's nine o'clock yeah let's uh first step is erosion control yeah let's immediately it up work on mitigation later we'll come up with a plan we'll figure out absolutely yep um yeah so uh on our end we'll get the the letter that we will get to you and and to your wife um and we will see you back here on the 28th super with forward to work with closely with I'll get the materials right away cool thanks for coming and I'll wrap the banks with it you know put it down yep if the ground's frozen and I can't find found the biodegradable you know spikes and we'll figure something yep yep all right well what about some kind of like a like a uh your your excavator friend probably knows but like some kind of like a tacka fire with a Hydra seed mix I know it's not the growing season but the tacka fire might just stick around long enough to make the seed germinate T fire I'll ask him he he's in Florida he comes back to first week of February but goals at least for the the side walls of that I'm going F off the path yeah does look like a road I was amazed I'm like oh my God but he doesn't have a he doesn't have a he laughs I he doesn't have a 24 inch bu now well you have my email too yeah I'll communicate with you I'll show you pictures of my progress okay I don't want to take any more your time thanks for coming in yeah thank you for coming in and thank you for not laughing at us while we figured all our technical issues introducing to my company it was a ratnip time we had a cough people went on scam go isn't my co this one I don't know it would look so cute though I ripped the sleeves off it's very nice meeting you what is your first name again Elizabeth Elizabeth nice to meet you for the hassle we created thank you we got one I not not for you sorry um all right so let's see where are we at here uh Massachusetts Department of Transportation is planning to make significant investments in electric vehicle charging infrastructure along specified Highway corridors in the State uh currently in the process of sighting sighting thank you that word is not driving with me designing and permitting the first phase of locations discuss proposed location at the tourist information center and provide feedback on preliminary site selection for planning purposes yes so this was a letter that we received in the mail um I can read the letter so you have more of the scope I can put it up here too right or do I not yeah it's the clerk to the city so I'm assuming these EV Chargers are in [Music] jurisdiction Riv just this the yeah it is realer Brook it's outside the 100 is it 100 foot buffer just in local or I put an arc map screenshot in the G we can just look at real quick so the this is where they want to put them at the tourist so it's like way far wait it's an existing paved parking lot yeah they're just want to make sure they're covering all all the bases basically so okay I'm not I'm gonna let you read your letter but I think this is exempt under a minor if it's even in buffer zone it might be minor is it even in buff where the where the DMV is yeah that's that's the tour Center yeah this the tourist center they're just like opening it up for comments any con oh are they in a meepa thing are they doing a meepo review and they have to just notify all agencies let let me read the letter sorry sounded like but yeah sorry my bad project okay uh the Massachusetts Department of Transportation is planning the subject project to make significant investments in electri elect vehicle charging infrastructure along specified Highway corridors in Massachusetts that will provide a convenient reliable and Equitable direct current fast charging experience for all users through the federally funded National Electric Vehicle infrastructure program currently Mast doot is in the process of citing designing and permitting the first phase of locations the implementation implementation of nevi Within Massachusetts is also includes Contracting with private enes to accomplish the development a location within Greenfield at the tourist information center located 18 minor Street has been selected because it meets the site requirements in selecting each location massot evaluated potential site vulnerabilities such as flooding and sea level rise but also ensured that the site met applicable federal and state nevi program requirements those specific requirements include the minimum minimization or elimination of gaps greater than 50 miles on selected routes of the electric vehicle alternative fuel quter Network in Massachusetts and compliance with the maximum site distance of one mile from the applicable EVC the locus map showing the proposed location is enclosed uh Mass do environmental with assistance from aom is in the process of evaluating the potential environmental impacts of associated with the project to assist in the evaluation I'm asking that you notify me of any concerns relative to the project potential impacts on environmental social economic or cultural resources such as Wetlands water bodies endangered species and natural heritage deployment is ongoing but the construction of the first phase is anticipated to beginning 2025 please feel free to contact me if you have any questions or require further information regarding the project the letter has been sent to the following Greenfield government employees for coordination um so it went to the mayor Eric to Tar um the directory director of community and economic development Amy I mean if it's kayin if it's like lawfully developed parking lot you know stuff I think that it's mostly exempt even if that is in priority habitat and buffer zone I think that it's probably exempt whether it's an environmental justice is another issue I don't know about that it's outside my wheelhouse but um I don't think we really have jurisdiction over that yeah it's not priority habitat do you know if it's EJ environmental justice just curious It's not I don't I don't I don't ever look at that I don't know it doesn't matter for us for the most part but I I'm just curious now cuz it's a nightmare when something is in EJ and it's like a very recent thing as of like 2022 but either way it's so those green lines are those um the extent Zone from um wheeler Brook and that like hatched Gray Line is flooding mhm okay so um so not our I believe those green lines are 25 ft increments oh so one two three four it's 50 so that doesn't show the 200 foot River Front for the local yeah I'm doubting myself I think it is 200 feet it's 50 foot increments okay so do we have to vote or do anything about this or is it just to like bring it to our attention I'm bringing it to your attention um to see if there were any comments that you wanted to officially submit I guess if we wanted to just say any Earth disturbance would be accompanied by best management practices to limit erosion and sedimentation into like you know for example like a silt sack and a city catch Basin I mean I don't know I honestly can't think of anything that would it's not even our jurisdiction I don't know can we even say anything I mean I think my only reservation would be if once it came time to actually do the work if the engineering showed that the project expanded beyond the scope of the hard top that's already there then I would think that that should come to us but potentially if it were in the zone but seems like there's not a lot of issue given that could we say something like um you know if your project is in our jurisdiction we would expect you to come before us and we would also expect you to administer best management practices to contain any sediment and erosion control including in City catch basins I don't know yeah I mean like once your project you you once the engineering um prints have been put together like make sure that your project doesn't stray into the resource area or the buffer zone right like it to us with an RDA yeah when the time comes to to to but otherwise there's no issue I think yeah I think that yeah I think you're right I I think this isn't really yeah okay great um okay so if and Erica Emily are you cop pathetic with all that yeah I assume they were going to do it on the black top I mean in the parking spaces for the cars you know I mean so yeah I mean when big why put in theirs there was no like fuss or M so I would imagine it would be a fairly relatively low impact um cool then we are at the time of the evening where any topics not reasonably anticipated 408 hours in advance of the posting of this agenda may be brought to the table oh shoot my video's off I'm so sorry guys I just noticed that I'm sorry day um okay well in that case um do we want to go ahead and stop recording or do we have to official business um I went back to the Mill Street Dam where they they fixed the compromised Dam okay because they completed it and just went to see and I checked and everything looks really good they had put down some straw where there would be a lot of foot traffic um it looked nice and cleaned up there wasn't anything alarming or even like besides the straw you could even tell anything so um yeah I just wanted to follow up on that since that is now complete great actually I I remember I think one of your emails said that you g maybe just check all these again did you happen to check buy them and make sure they yeah I well I thought I sent did I not send pictures um yeah I sent those pictures that um they had like driven over the uh silt fencing that's been do remember you because I commented then too I was like what is r these people keep doing this yeah but they were like putting in I think they were putting in the like it looked like they were putting in the storm water like retention tank thing that was part of their plans and um yeah I don't I I don't know I did talk about um just that it was like a lesson learn kind of thing and next time hiring a third party that would be in charge of like erosion control checks and keep yeah like that applicant was saying tonight for that solar project yeah just keeping that yeah exactly my coow workers uhuh so that's kind of where that's at I don't even think that like I've said something to them multiple times I don't really think they and they're like okay and then I leave and and they don't care yes that seems to have been the tone from that sector the whole time yeah um at one point they were on the call and they said oh yeah we've totally covered those things and then the following Sunday I went to the grocery store and they were uncovered yeah so um I mean I don't know that there's anything that we could do or anything worth doing at this point but I think think that's you know like you said Lessons Learned in the future something that as a commission we should probably be more uh firm I guess about so that that was uh yeah that was it's nice that that Dam came out nicely though all right [Music] soop y there I think we are there okay um um just the further comment we are tomorrow meeting at um three of us Emily right yep the land myself and then yep and then um Jessica and Eric what time is that again in the mayor and the mayor um it's at 11 I believe okay and we'll meet um at shelburn on that Shel Summit road yeah so not shelburn road that is a huge like steep embankment you can't access the property so you have to go far up route two turn on shelburn Summit Drive and then take a left up the like private Drive which is private to the land owners that are back there so okay so that driveway it's a right away it's someone's actual driveway too but not really until there's a switch back once you go up the hill switch backs to the private property got but at the top of the hill there's this grassy kind of Frozen area that I parked and I think there's room for three-ish cars um up there that yeah I think we should all meet up there it's a very Steep Hill up to that point and Hiking up it will be tough so not ideal okay fair enough um so I assume you and Eric would be in probably with mayor with the mayor yeah we probably meet her at the city hall and have her follow us so that would be two cars and so I don't know I think maybe we could squeeze four well we could one of us could park um on shelburn Summit Road and then just hop into somebody you know like squeeze in real tight and get up the driveway yeah um because shelir Summit road is is there's plenty of spaces there's a bus that my kids used to get off the bus there and there's a whole ton of space on the side of the road to park on so that shouldn't be an issue um but yeah so we'll meet if we have to um we'll leave one car there and then drive the other three up or whatever double check that I just want to double check my calendar that I gave you guys correct time I got 11:30 on mine but I don't know that that's just double check I've got it the load 11:30 okay y all right so 11:30 Shelbert and Summit Road um cool okay let me stop the recording [Music]